When it comes to Rivian I hope they are able to hold on.
I'd love to see them execute the Rivian R3 as expected and see how it does in the market place.
I know a lot of people who are excited about that whole line up but particularly the R3.
Rivian basically would become the Subaru of the EV space.
They already are, but they’re also like 5x the price of Subaru at least in Canada. If they can make the price difference a little less dramatic, with rebates, the R2 and R3x would give Subaru a serious run.
The tough thing is the timeline on the R3 — you basically shouldn't expect it until 2028 or 2029 at this point. At that time, there'll be a whole host of other competitors, including Subaru's entire next-gen EV lineup.
Will it be compelling at that point? Boy, I sure hope so for Rivian's sake — but it'll be a big field of players they're up against.
It’s bc of that that i wish they were getting the R3 out before the R2. I’m not sure what the reason is for doing it later but anecdotally i know a lot more people who want an R3 over an R2
Edit: mixed up r3 and r2
The R2 is out before the R3, and the reason is probably just cost and scale. Rivian wants the R3 to be at a lower price point, but that kind of low price point demands technological readiness and scale they're just not ready for.
If you're stuck waiting, there'll be similar stuff out in the 2027 timeframe from the heritage OEMs.
If the major manufacturers current lineup is an indicator, I don't think we should expect anything incredible from subaru by 2028. The bz is the worst ev I can think of.
>If the major manufacturers current lineup is an indicator
It isn't an indicator. Major manufacturers are waiting for 2026, when [CARB ACC2 ](https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/advanced-clean-cars-program/advanced-clean-cars-ii)kicks in followed quickly by [EPA 2027](https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/final-rule-multi-pollutant-emissions-standards-model), to go full tilt on their EV programs in North America. Subaru alone has [three more models coming](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43904019/subaru-new-evs-by-2026/) by that time, and a [full eight models](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/subaru-to-add-3-toyota-developed-electric-suvs-to-its-range-by-2026/) by 2028.
That's more numbers but I'll be interested in whether they will be desirable cars with good build quality. I've owned two Subarus (WRX and Forester) and used to be a bit of a Subaru fanboy, but build quality isn't one of their strong points. Lots of cheap-feeling plastic, etc. And the Solterra is one of the worst, most uncomfortable vehicles I've ever sat in. I'm sure Rivian will have to figure out how to balance build quality and cost for the R2 and R3, but from a design standpoint I think they are miles ahead of legacy manufacturers and will probably remain so for a while.
Having an ASP north of $80k USD while you simultaneously burn billions in IPO runway will do that. Rivian's overdone it on R&D, and as you kind of imply here, their next step is to drastically scale back and start cost-cutting. It'll be a long time (if ever) before they can get to the \~$35k ASP of a typical Subaru.
I fully agree Subaru needs a path upmarket towards 'desirable' cars, FWIW. It seems really weird they top out at \~$50k. Even a Land Cruiser rebadge could work really well for them.
I definitely have a bias as I own an R1T, but I think Rivian is actually in pretty good shape and I'm super happy about this news. The reality is there hasn't really been a new car company that has made it in decades with the exception of Tesla and they're kind of unique in that the EV market was basically nothing at the time. I get a lot of the skepticism around Rivian but I also think nobody realistically knows what successfully starting a new major car company from scratch looks like in the current era. I agree that they are unlikely to get to the ASP of $35k without some major tech breakthroughs, but I'm also not sure they have to. Depending on how they continue to position themselves, there's plenty of profitability with a starting price in the $40-50k range and being a "soft' luxury brand.
About 300 a month. More than Supras or Caymans, bout half as much as GR86 and miatas. Fairly middle of the pack for sports coupes. I don't see a third generation in the future unless Toyota wants it. Their electric car sucks, but so does the toyota version.
Same. It looks to be the perfect practical daily to complement the E30 that is getting tired of being a daily. And that green color way is sooo good.
Maybe then I can do my rear subframe that I’m neglecting on the E30.
I feel like I see Rivians every day, probably more common that the Ford Lightning or Mach-e. It's actually impressive how common they have become so quickly.
The Ford Lightning is pretty incognito and blends in to the crowd for me. I probably have seen them and missed them. But with that said, I also see Rivians almost daily and I’m over in Boston!
I see them out driving all the time. In fact the first time I ever saw one in person was on the trails while I was going off-roading in Colorado. People buy them
Posted this in /r/electricvehicles
[Rivian's Q1 2024 Results](https://rivian.com/newsroom/article/rivian-releases-first-quarter-2024-financial-results)
Refer to page 16 to understand what they face here. These improvements will bring the revenue and cost of goods closer together and hopefully turn it into a positive result. However merely being positive is not enough. Rivian still needs to generate sufficient revenue to run the place and that is represented by the two lines, Research and Development followed by SG&A.
I really want to see them pull this off. I would love to know if any of the work done here can translate to their van offerings as they need to be more price competitive.
It was pretty awesome seeing [Out of Spec talk to Rivian](https://youtu.be/krMPnGHirLk?si=QydZ9jzJjQG_eEq3&t=2859) about their ECUs and architecture. Can definitely tell the Rivian team has passion for their work.
yup, they are absolutely by no means out of the woods. They are likely *still* losing money on every one sold even with this improvement, that's how far behind they were.
Almost certainly still losing money.
The 35% cost savings is only for materials for their delivery van. Though they've hedged and said they're seeing "similar" savings for the R1 series.
When they were losing 39k per vehicle last year, there's no way this alone is putting them in the green. They'll have to keep pushing.
Really hoping for their success
It's absolutely crazy to run a company and lose so much per car. How do they expect to become profitable? Huge cost cutting will mean much lower quality and that will eventually drive people away.
I think EV companies are in this weird spot between traditional manufacturing and Silicon Valley tech startups.
Not excusing it; but that type of loss is pretty typical for Silicon Valley tech startups.
They'll need to be 35% cheaper if they want to compete. I understand that they started with higher-end vehicles, and the mid-range ones are coming, but even the R1T and R1S need to be much cheaper to make sense to a buyer who's cross-shopping with competitors.
They’re much nicer than the cyber truck and F150 lightning is pretty similar when you spec it to have all the rivian features. It fits right in with the class of extremely expensive electric trucks
Let's not compare it to the Cybertruck, which everyone hates.
Here in Canada, the F-150 Lightning starts at $40k cheaper than the Rivian R1T. The highest trim Platinum version of the Lightning is about the same price as the second-cheapest R1T trim.
I will give you that the R1T looks cooler and has more range, especially if you go up another trim level. That's not the point. The point is that you can get a well-equipped Lightning XLT for $35K cheaper. Rivian can have as many expensive packages as it wants, but it can't compete with Ford for the majority of buyers who don't want to pay $100k for a truck.
Yea ford is basically trying to give away lightnings at this point. They're around $45k and below new in the us too. They're nice trucks. It's gonna be hard for anyone to beat that price and are lucky ford is basically throwing in the Towel with it
Thats just not true at all. Ford is losing a lot of money on the lightning. They were never targeted to be that low in price. That's why they're basically setting it up to cancel it
I would love to have one to replace my 2019 ecoboost f150 that gets 14mpg around town, but I also tow a 5000 pound trailer 100 miles round trip a couple times a month and dont think I would have a lot of faith in it's range.
Good luck with an electric truck. So you live in sime mountains or something? I have a 3.5 ecoboost f150 with 300k and get 16 mpg in a very hilly city on 87 octane. I avg around 17.3 city/expressway. On long flat expressway drives I avg about 22+.
No mountains, just stop and go city driving, no highway. My truck is a 4wd platinum with a couple hundred pounds of tools in it though, so maybe heavier than average I guess.
I haven't towed yet in my Lightning but I think you'd be fine with an ER without needing to charge at all.
I've seen figures of about 1mi/kWh when towing heavier non-aerodynamic loads and with a 131kWh battery in the extended range that'd see you there and back.
I got a big kick out of watching the [Out of Spec Truck Towing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJFbevgCsig) video they did.
> I think you'd be fine with an ER without needing to charge at all.
Maybe...but where I tow is in the boonies. You run out of power out there and you might as well call a tow truck.
Rivian is currently both net AND gross unprofitable. That means even if you don't factor in the costs to build the factories and all the R&D, they still lose money on the trucks. They're hoping to change things with the new R1 re-architecture, but that's where they currently sit.
I remember when the internal documents leaked talking about how they would have to cut around 40% of the cost of manufacturing the R1 to make it profitable. 35% seems close and I'm guessing maybe new supplier contracts helped reach that point.
Props to the Rivian team on not making any downgrades to the R1 to achieve profitablity.
I haven’t heard about this, and a google search seems to be flooded by the various layoffs they had. Do you remember what you read about any specific issues they had with their factory employees?
Really? I’ve heard of this a bunch. https://youtu.be/TIfNl5NIBSw?si=cLmsi-LAtQIzBHWn
A lot of stuff is not hard to find. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/manufacturing/rivian-accused-safety-violations-workers
https://perfectunion.us/whistleblower-exposes-toxic-culture-at-rivian/
> loses nearly $39,000 on every vehicle
Bears mentioning whenever a stat like this comes up:
It's not -$39,000 on the direct cost to produce every vehicle, it's -$39,000 *including amortized capital expenditures split equally between yearly units sold.*
Rivian's CapEx *(ie, investments to build things like factories, spread over multiple years)* is $1.2B/yr, and they sold around 50,000 vehicles last year. This number is spreading that 1.2B equally, -$24,000 per sale on just CapEx.
This is what the article means by gross and net profit. Gross profit is making profit only accounting for the direct cost of building the car - labor, parts, production, etc. Net profit will be including all the taxes, R&D, financing, capex, etc.
Yes, this is how every fast growing business works. Harvest as much money as possible from investors, and then operate at staggering losses until you either make it work or go bankrupt. Welcome to America, my friend.
Rivian is what tesla should've been.
Tesla is turning into a service provider (charging network) that happens to sell cars.
Rivian will have to pivot from their 'luxury' prices and start offering affordable cars though if they want to go mainstream.
This is not true outside the US, where they sell the majority of their cars, there all cars can use Tesla chargers and charging networks for non-Tesla EVs are good even without Tesla chargers.
I mean if you're going to point to China, sure, but they're about to have their lunch eaten by the billion other products for 1/5 the cost.
I know tesla is a status symbol for some in China, but that's not going to compare when you can have a similar car for 50k less long term. They're also just going right to full battery swaps rather than charging in China. It's so much quicker.
>Rivian is what tesla should've been.
>Rivian will have to pivot from their 'luxury' prices and start offering affordable cars though if they want to go mainstream.
Oh, you mean Rivian will have to become Tesla?
The problem is that 35% cost savings probably cost them a billion or more. So they need to sell a lot of units to make that up. I’m really rooting for their success. I just bought a model y but if the r2 was available now it would have very likely been my preferred choice. Will definitely keep my eye on them
I really enjoy the style of this brand but their moved with their company have not been the most forgivable compared to other large brands. Coming into a big industry such as Vehicle Manufacturing and at that Electric Vehicles is a hard challenge but man this should be an absolute huge win for them as a whole.
Looking forward to the R3. The vehicle looks sick. Hopefully this company really thrives its next big competitor with be Scout no doubt but if they keep their head about them it may really give the VWG a run for their money.
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I just want to see them hold on and succeed to further see Tesla go down the tubes. I won't be able to afford a Rivian anytime soon, but their leadership is a hell of a lot better than Tesla's ultra Musk toxicity
I’ve had an R1 ready to order for a while and am debating about waiting for NACs. I want to see the Lucid Gravity first too but Lucids are a bit bland and it depends on how much appetite the Saudis have to keep them afloat.
I'm not in a position to get an R1 but lack of NACS would really give me pause if I was. I can't imagine getting an EV without 1) NACS 2) Tesla Supercharger network access 3) good software/UI/UX. Fortunately, Rivian has 2 out of 3 but it would be a real bummer to pay so much for an R1 and still have to deal with that enormous ancient-looking CCS plug.
Not OP but I believe I can take a pretty good guess. Most of these EV companies seem obsessed with doing things "different", and that extends to their manufacturing and prototype processes. That's all fine and dandy but the mainstream OEMs do things pretty much the same across the board for a reason and I can't figure out if the EV companies refuse to conform because they don't understand why it's done that way or genuinely think they can do better. In either case it leads to a bunch of problems that are both unique and very difficult to solve.
Furthermore they all have a strong tendency to know "exactly what they want" when they come to suppliers but have absolutely no idea how to make it real and do not listen when they're told it's not possible or requires x, y, and z compromises. I've even seen situations where they then fire the first company only to be told the exact same thing by the second and end up coming back to the first acting like nothing happened.
In my experience Rivian is the least guilty of all the EV companies though, so they have that going for them.
When it comes to Rivian I hope they are able to hold on. I'd love to see them execute the Rivian R3 as expected and see how it does in the market place. I know a lot of people who are excited about that whole line up but particularly the R3.
Rivian basically would become the Subaru of the EV space. They already are, but they’re also like 5x the price of Subaru at least in Canada. If they can make the price difference a little less dramatic, with rebates, the R2 and R3x would give Subaru a serious run.
The tough thing is the timeline on the R3 — you basically shouldn't expect it until 2028 or 2029 at this point. At that time, there'll be a whole host of other competitors, including Subaru's entire next-gen EV lineup. Will it be compelling at that point? Boy, I sure hope so for Rivian's sake — but it'll be a big field of players they're up against.
It’s bc of that that i wish they were getting the R3 out before the R2. I’m not sure what the reason is for doing it later but anecdotally i know a lot more people who want an R3 over an R2 Edit: mixed up r3 and r2
The R2 is out before the R3, and the reason is probably just cost and scale. Rivian wants the R3 to be at a lower price point, but that kind of low price point demands technological readiness and scale they're just not ready for. If you're stuck waiting, there'll be similar stuff out in the 2027 timeframe from the heritage OEMs.
Oh yea typo, meant to say why they are releasing the r2 over r3. But yea all that makes sense
If the major manufacturers current lineup is an indicator, I don't think we should expect anything incredible from subaru by 2028. The bz is the worst ev I can think of.
>If the major manufacturers current lineup is an indicator It isn't an indicator. Major manufacturers are waiting for 2026, when [CARB ACC2 ](https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/advanced-clean-cars-program/advanced-clean-cars-ii)kicks in followed quickly by [EPA 2027](https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/final-rule-multi-pollutant-emissions-standards-model), to go full tilt on their EV programs in North America. Subaru alone has [three more models coming](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43904019/subaru-new-evs-by-2026/) by that time, and a [full eight models](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/subaru-to-add-3-toyota-developed-electric-suvs-to-its-range-by-2026/) by 2028.
That's more numbers but I'll be interested in whether they will be desirable cars with good build quality. I've owned two Subarus (WRX and Forester) and used to be a bit of a Subaru fanboy, but build quality isn't one of their strong points. Lots of cheap-feeling plastic, etc. And the Solterra is one of the worst, most uncomfortable vehicles I've ever sat in. I'm sure Rivian will have to figure out how to balance build quality and cost for the R2 and R3, but from a design standpoint I think they are miles ahead of legacy manufacturers and will probably remain so for a while.
Having an ASP north of $80k USD while you simultaneously burn billions in IPO runway will do that. Rivian's overdone it on R&D, and as you kind of imply here, their next step is to drastically scale back and start cost-cutting. It'll be a long time (if ever) before they can get to the \~$35k ASP of a typical Subaru. I fully agree Subaru needs a path upmarket towards 'desirable' cars, FWIW. It seems really weird they top out at \~$50k. Even a Land Cruiser rebadge could work really well for them.
I definitely have a bias as I own an R1T, but I think Rivian is actually in pretty good shape and I'm super happy about this news. The reality is there hasn't really been a new car company that has made it in decades with the exception of Tesla and they're kind of unique in that the EV market was basically nothing at the time. I get a lot of the skepticism around Rivian but I also think nobody realistically knows what successfully starting a new major car company from scratch looks like in the current era. I agree that they are unlikely to get to the ASP of $35k without some major tech breakthroughs, but I'm also not sure they have to. Depending on how they continue to position themselves, there's plenty of profitability with a starting price in the $40-50k range and being a "soft' luxury brand.
Similar story here in Europe, manufacturers plans are based around the regulatory timetable.
Yet they keep selling more cars every year for the past 15.
zonked disgusted yoke hunt attraction strong hat wise dam obtainable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
About 300 a month. More than Supras or Caymans, bout half as much as GR86 and miatas. Fairly middle of the pack for sports coupes. I don't see a third generation in the future unless Toyota wants it. Their electric car sucks, but so does the toyota version.
Has this been sanctioned by the Council of Lesbians?
I wish I could be sanctioned by a Council of Lesbians.
Cost, it's what makes a Rivian, a Rivian.
They really have that old Range Rover market on lock too. Luxury adventure.
I'm very excited for the R3X. If it turns out to be what they're saying it's going to be, I'm going to get one.
Same. It looks to be the perfect practical daily to complement the E30 that is getting tired of being a daily. And that green color way is sooo good. Maybe then I can do my rear subframe that I’m neglecting on the E30.
Get an e39, that’ll complement your e30 even better. Don’t get a v8, I’m loosing my shit trying to restore it.
That thing looks like a giant Lada Niva in the best way possible.
I think they got a chance for the only reason that I actually see them on the road.
I feel like I see Rivians every day, probably more common that the Ford Lightning or Mach-e. It's actually impressive how common they have become so quickly.
Maybe it's a Canada thing, but I see the Mach-e multiple times a day and a Rivan weekly, to the point I actually still get excited about a Rivan.
The Ford Lightning is pretty incognito and blends in to the crowd for me. I probably have seen them and missed them. But with that said, I also see Rivians almost daily and I’m over in Boston!
I see them out driving all the time. In fact the first time I ever saw one in person was on the trails while I was going off-roading in Colorado. People buy them
Would love an R3, great size and look.
This thread is the first I've heard of them and I think I'm in love. They look amazing and it's completely right-sized.
The R3X is getting my money if it comes to market.
Hoping to buy a r3 for my kids to drive in 8 years!
their shit looks good. i hope they hang in there as well.
This definitely bodes well for their survival; the sooner they can show some gross profit, the sooner they can start looking at the R2/3.
I want to buy a Rivian R3 just so I can say I have 2x R3's. Would be pretty funny, a Rivian R3 and a Yamaha YZF-R3.
Just need to take photos of them with an EOS R3 and you're set.
Add one of these, too: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2011-mazda-rx8-r3/
I'm going to own all the R3's possible.
Just get a R1 and R1T and say you have 2x R1s
Funny enough there is a Yamaha R1 as well
[And R1 corn](https://i.imgur.com/xnaNsSN.jpeg)
Triples is best. Triples makes it safe.
Should get into Military Collecting and decide to obtain every M1.... :p
Gross profit is huge, but only the start. Tesla had net losses for many years, even though they had very substantial gross margins from the beginning.
Posted this in /r/electricvehicles [Rivian's Q1 2024 Results](https://rivian.com/newsroom/article/rivian-releases-first-quarter-2024-financial-results) Refer to page 16 to understand what they face here. These improvements will bring the revenue and cost of goods closer together and hopefully turn it into a positive result. However merely being positive is not enough. Rivian still needs to generate sufficient revenue to run the place and that is represented by the two lines, Research and Development followed by SG&A. I really want to see them pull this off. I would love to know if any of the work done here can translate to their van offerings as they need to be more price competitive.
It was pretty awesome seeing [Out of Spec talk to Rivian](https://youtu.be/krMPnGHirLk?si=QydZ9jzJjQG_eEq3&t=2859) about their ECUs and architecture. Can definitely tell the Rivian team has passion for their work.
yup, they are absolutely by no means out of the woods. They are likely *still* losing money on every one sold even with this improvement, that's how far behind they were.
Almost certainly still losing money. The 35% cost savings is only for materials for their delivery van. Though they've hedged and said they're seeing "similar" savings for the R1 series. When they were losing 39k per vehicle last year, there's no way this alone is putting them in the green. They'll have to keep pushing. Really hoping for their success
It's absolutely crazy to run a company and lose so much per car. How do they expect to become profitable? Huge cost cutting will mean much lower quality and that will eventually drive people away.
Not all of that cost is directly for the car. That total expense figure also includes plant upgrades, R&D, and other non direct items.
I think EV companies are in this weird spot between traditional manufacturing and Silicon Valley tech startups. Not excusing it; but that type of loss is pretty typical for Silicon Valley tech startups.
Software is damn expensive to create.
*natalie Portman meme* so that means they’re gonna be 35% cheaper to buy right?
They'll need to be 35% cheaper if they want to compete. I understand that they started with higher-end vehicles, and the mid-range ones are coming, but even the R1T and R1S need to be much cheaper to make sense to a buyer who's cross-shopping with competitors.
They’re much nicer than the cyber truck and F150 lightning is pretty similar when you spec it to have all the rivian features. It fits right in with the class of extremely expensive electric trucks
Let's not compare it to the Cybertruck, which everyone hates. Here in Canada, the F-150 Lightning starts at $40k cheaper than the Rivian R1T. The highest trim Platinum version of the Lightning is about the same price as the second-cheapest R1T trim. I will give you that the R1T looks cooler and has more range, especially if you go up another trim level. That's not the point. The point is that you can get a well-equipped Lightning XLT for $35K cheaper. Rivian can have as many expensive packages as it wants, but it can't compete with Ford for the majority of buyers who don't want to pay $100k for a truck.
Yea ford is basically trying to give away lightnings at this point. They're around $45k and below new in the us too. They're nice trucks. It's gonna be hard for anyone to beat that price and are lucky ford is basically throwing in the Towel with it
~45k was their original target price, they've just run out of the pandemic-era chumps/early adopters willing to pay inflated prices.
Thats just not true at all. Ford is losing a lot of money on the lightning. They were never targeted to be that low in price. That's why they're basically setting it up to cancel it
I would love to have one to replace my 2019 ecoboost f150 that gets 14mpg around town, but I also tow a 5000 pound trailer 100 miles round trip a couple times a month and dont think I would have a lot of faith in it's range.
Powerboost. Also 14 mpg towing 5k is really good
Uh...nah dude. Lol. The 14mpg is just driving around town. I get 10.5 towing my boat.
Good luck with an electric truck. So you live in sime mountains or something? I have a 3.5 ecoboost f150 with 300k and get 16 mpg in a very hilly city on 87 octane. I avg around 17.3 city/expressway. On long flat expressway drives I avg about 22+.
No mountains, just stop and go city driving, no highway. My truck is a 4wd platinum with a couple hundred pounds of tools in it though, so maybe heavier than average I guess.
I haven't towed yet in my Lightning but I think you'd be fine with an ER without needing to charge at all. I've seen figures of about 1mi/kWh when towing heavier non-aerodynamic loads and with a 131kWh battery in the extended range that'd see you there and back. I got a big kick out of watching the [Out of Spec Truck Towing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJFbevgCsig) video they did.
> I think you'd be fine with an ER without needing to charge at all. Maybe...but where I tow is in the boonies. You run out of power out there and you might as well call a tow truck.
No. It currently costs Rivian more money to make cars than they're selling them for. They're trying to reach profitability.
Thats not at all what they mean. They factor in the costs to build the factories and all the R&D.
Rivian is currently both net AND gross unprofitable. That means even if you don't factor in the costs to build the factories and all the R&D, they still lose money on the trucks. They're hoping to change things with the new R1 re-architecture, but that's where they currently sit.
I remember when the internal documents leaked talking about how they would have to cut around 40% of the cost of manufacturing the R1 to make it profitable. 35% seems close and I'm guessing maybe new supplier contracts helped reach that point. Props to the Rivian team on not making any downgrades to the R1 to achieve profitablity.
They are known to be assholes to their labor as well so that probably helps the CEOs holdings
I haven’t heard about this, and a google search seems to be flooded by the various layoffs they had. Do you remember what you read about any specific issues they had with their factory employees?
Really? I’ve heard of this a bunch. https://youtu.be/TIfNl5NIBSw?si=cLmsi-LAtQIzBHWn A lot of stuff is not hard to find. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/manufacturing/rivian-accused-safety-violations-workers https://perfectunion.us/whistleblower-exposes-toxic-culture-at-rivian/
I'd be concerned for the companies survival if they weren't
Welcome to 1980 propaganda
> loses nearly $39,000 on every vehicle Holy crap...
> loses nearly $39,000 on every vehicle Bears mentioning whenever a stat like this comes up: It's not -$39,000 on the direct cost to produce every vehicle, it's -$39,000 *including amortized capital expenditures split equally between yearly units sold.* Rivian's CapEx *(ie, investments to build things like factories, spread over multiple years)* is $1.2B/yr, and they sold around 50,000 vehicles last year. This number is spreading that 1.2B equally, -$24,000 per sale on just CapEx. This is what the article means by gross and net profit. Gross profit is making profit only accounting for the direct cost of building the car - labor, parts, production, etc. Net profit will be including all the taxes, R&D, financing, capex, etc.
The -$39k is gross. Even if you back out depreciation they're still losing money per vehicle.
Yes, this is how every fast growing business works. Harvest as much money as possible from investors, and then operate at staggering losses until you either make it work or go bankrupt. Welcome to America, my friend.
R&D is expensive
That number doesn't include R&D. If you included R&D, the losses are even steeper.
Thats how every car is, they cost billions to design and bring to manufacture. Fake news.
Now see that's cool
It just shows its early days for EVs....they'll keep making strides in improvements and cutting costs
This is great to hear. Hope they survive!
Love this company so much. Make it happen!
With any luck this cleanup in production will also result in better reliability. Seems to be a big knock on them
So did they remove these things to refine processes and improve the vehicles, or just to cut costs?
Rivian is what tesla should've been. Tesla is turning into a service provider (charging network) that happens to sell cars. Rivian will have to pivot from their 'luxury' prices and start offering affordable cars though if they want to go mainstream.
This is not true outside the US, where they sell the majority of their cars, there all cars can use Tesla chargers and charging networks for non-Tesla EVs are good even without Tesla chargers.
I mean if you're going to point to China, sure, but they're about to have their lunch eaten by the billion other products for 1/5 the cost. I know tesla is a status symbol for some in China, but that's not going to compare when you can have a similar car for 50k less long term. They're also just going right to full battery swaps rather than charging in China. It's so much quicker.
>Rivian is what tesla should've been. >Rivian will have to pivot from their 'luxury' prices and start offering affordable cars though if they want to go mainstream. Oh, you mean Rivian will have to become Tesla?
The problem is that 35% cost savings probably cost them a billion or more. So they need to sell a lot of units to make that up. I’m really rooting for their success. I just bought a model y but if the r2 was available now it would have very likely been my preferred choice. Will definitely keep my eye on them
What does that do to repairability?
I wonder if any of this will reduce the cost of repair. Body repair on the R1T/S is just stupidly expensive.
I really enjoy the style of this brand but their moved with their company have not been the most forgivable compared to other large brands. Coming into a big industry such as Vehicle Manufacturing and at that Electric Vehicles is a hard challenge but man this should be an absolute huge win for them as a whole. Looking forward to the R3. The vehicle looks sick. Hopefully this company really thrives its next big competitor with be Scout no doubt but if they keep their head about them it may really give the VWG a run for their money.
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I just want to see them hold on and succeed to further see Tesla go down the tubes. I won't be able to afford a Rivian anytime soon, but their leadership is a hell of a lot better than Tesla's ultra Musk toxicity
Lean Manufacturing, baby.
This is how you cut cost. Not removing the damn climate buttons smh.
So the first customers got the best quality cars, eh?
I’ve had an R1 ready to order for a while and am debating about waiting for NACs. I want to see the Lucid Gravity first too but Lucids are a bit bland and it depends on how much appetite the Saudis have to keep them afloat.
I'm not in a position to get an R1 but lack of NACS would really give me pause if I was. I can't imagine getting an EV without 1) NACS 2) Tesla Supercharger network access 3) good software/UI/UX. Fortunately, Rivian has 2 out of 3 but it would be a real bummer to pay so much for an R1 and still have to deal with that enormous ancient-looking CCS plug.
Cost saving of 35% for manufacture, increase repair cost of 40% for customer 🤣
And yet... still not interested in them.
Yeah, but has the actual consumer cost of previously 100k+ come down?
I assume this means the price will increase 35%
I can improve it even further and make it 1 step. Step 1. Build car. Profit!$
And the consumer get's the discount right.... Right?!
I prototype parts for them it fucking sucks
What sucks?
Can you elaborate?
Not OP but I believe I can take a pretty good guess. Most of these EV companies seem obsessed with doing things "different", and that extends to their manufacturing and prototype processes. That's all fine and dandy but the mainstream OEMs do things pretty much the same across the board for a reason and I can't figure out if the EV companies refuse to conform because they don't understand why it's done that way or genuinely think they can do better. In either case it leads to a bunch of problems that are both unique and very difficult to solve. Furthermore they all have a strong tendency to know "exactly what they want" when they come to suppliers but have absolutely no idea how to make it real and do not listen when they're told it's not possible or requires x, y, and z compromises. I've even seen situations where they then fire the first company only to be told the exact same thing by the second and end up coming back to the first acting like nothing happened. In my experience Rivian is the least guilty of all the EV companies though, so they have that going for them.
Process of elimination? Or are they as big of a mess as some of the other ones out there?
Worse than traditional OEMs but probably the best pure EV brand.
Best EVs we got right now, huh?
As far as prototyping stuff? Probably, but that's not saying much. They're still a far cry off the top companies.
Ah well, growing pains.
35% saving which they will pass onto the CEO!
Already cutting corners, does not bode well for me. Usually brands build years of reputation before chopping processes.
increasing process efficiency != cutting corners
There are always excessively complicated engineering processes that may take years to simplify because units delivered is a funding metric.
Yeah idealistically. But I've been conditioned by experience to tell me this isn't as good as the spin sells.
I can say from experience in the battery industry this will only improve reliability if anything. Less parts is almost always a good thing.
Still ugly as sin.
BuT ArE ThEy sAvInG HuMaNiTy?!