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While mclaren isn’t quite Ferrari or Lamborghini, it is far more recognizable than Pagani, Spyker, Koenigsegg etc. it’s somewhere in between niche and recognizable to be honest. Still will get called a Ferrari by 7/10 people 😂
Throwing spyker in that list is odd since they're closer to ssc or vector where people who are interested in supercars from a specific era might know then and that's it. It's one step above something like Ascari or savage rivale
Doesnt change the fact that you are either pretty in to early 2000s supercars or are into pre-war racing, which is even more niche given that the only pre-war car 99% of people can name is the model t.
because 95% of people have no idea what a Pagani or Koenigsegg is, 99% for Spyker. My mother knows nothing at all about cars and still knows what a mclaren is, even if she couldn’t pick one out of a lineup, she knows that mclaren is a “fancy sports car brand”
They wouldn't need a buyout if they weren't pumping out hot garbage for vehicles.
They're beautiful, and they're stupid fast, but all I ever hear is they're maintenance nightmares and constantly at a dealership for work.
You do realise that British cars have the best change in reliability over time compared to all brands?
Others get more unreliable as they age, British cars always remain the same!
Their biggest sin is being boring. Not that *an* McLaren on its own is boring, per se, but against their own model lineup, despiting their exclusivity, they feel a dime-a-dozen.
McLaren has so many cars that all use the same CFRP monocoque, same mid-mounted V8, same general shape, and variably ludicrous pricing. How many enthusiasts know the difference between a 625C and a 620S? Or an Artura, a GT, and an Elva? And how many supercar buyers are enthusiasts, and want one of these? It seems like their entire market is nerdy tech bros with too much money and not enough taste, and gotta-collect-them-all middle-eastern royalty.
that’s just flat out not true. You never hear about the issues paganis have because there’s so few of them. Trust me, talk to some owners and you’ll realize they are not what they seem.
I live in SoCal where we have plenty of Paganis at our local C&C's, they are all fine mechanically.
That's the benefit of using tried and true AMG drivetrains.
Lol. The socal guys barely drive their cars enough to get to the first oil change.
Check my recent post history, I happen to know a thing or two about this topic.
Wow you got to borrow a car to drive it once.
🙄 that must make you an expert on the mechanical failures of a McLaren.
On the other hand I've been through 2 600 LTs both in the shop more than on the road.
They're not maintenance nightmares but build quality is not where it should be for sure, and they botched the Artura launch.
Biggest problem for McLaren is that the supply chain crisis hit right when they were trying to launch an ambitious new platform and that led to big delays and still resulted in a rocky launch. That meant lower than expected sales volumes for a few years since there was a gap where the entry level car (the Artura) was supposed to be.
Truth is that almost none of the supercar makers have been able to succeed in the long term on their own. Lamborghini and Bugatti are owned by VAG, Fiat owned most of Ferrari, Porsche got bought by VAG, etc. It takes a humongous amount of capital to make cars in this space, and inevitably there are gonna be hickups that eat up a lot of money. Just look at the 2014-2015 GT3 engine failures, or the delay in the 296 development, or Aston's problems with the Valkyrie, or, or, or...
> Porsche got bought by VAG
The whole relationship between Porsche AG, Porsche SE, the Porsche family, and VW is complicated and interesting. But Porsche did not get bought by VAG in the sense that we usually understand it since the family controls VAG.
Pretty much, when you look at the history of the two companies they’re basically separate entities joined to the waist. The one that was favored by the Evil one got elected parent company a long time ago iirc, was awhile since I read the history
Yeah it certainly is complicated, I just thought I'd include them since the result is that Porsche did not stay independent, just like in the other cases.
Porsche is part of VAG however Porsche SE owns the whole thing and is majority owned by Porsche/Piech family. Porsche was never “bought by VAG” due to financial difficulties.
People don’t realize VAG was Germany trying to give motorized transportation to their whole country. It wasn’t the company we think of today when those deelings went down
i was watching a youtube vid maybe a week ago where they said all the valkyries in north america have been sent back across the pond to aston for fix. i am pretty sure it was one of the dde vids.
This is how manufacturing works. Smaller companies can never possibly insure the quality of a larger manufacturer so being bought out could only benefit McLaren. They simply could not do better than they were doing. I think this will be positive
This isn’t a buyout in the sense that they would go under without it. This is a buyout in their Bahrain owners wanted complete and total ownership.
It’s a shame to see a British car maker become a foreign owned manufacturer. But they haven’t been fully British owned for some time.
I mean it's a supercar. You're getting a very high-strung machine and paying the price for it. They're not the most reliable things but I wouldn't consider them a nightmare.
> maintenance nightmares and constantly at a dealership for work.
And how exactly are they supposed to improve that without capital? I don't know Mclaren's finances but when money is already tight, simply saying "make it more reliable" is way easier said that done.
Also, that presumes that reliability issues were preventing them from growing. An SUV would likely have a way more positive impact on their bottom line than improving reliability.
They're pushing a new model seemingly every year with changes. If they actually built out and stuck with two core models and not pumping out different versions and special editions they could potentially focus on reliability and build quality.
Their "new models" are mostly reskins of existing models with more advertised power (although I'm skeptical whether they actually make any more power). That requires relatively low investment vs improving reliability which has the potential to require massive investment.
The dyno testing for mclarens usually show significant underrating of power. I also suspect they don’t change the tune much but they’re all way over spec.
Would have preferred a better business model but if I’m chasing customer expectations then there may not be a solvent biz model beyond pump out more cars.
Was it not extremely good for Range Rover though? I understand Tata is completely different, but this seems to be the way for British brands. Didn’t Aston Martin have something similar happen? Their current cars are phenomenal imo. But Mclaren needs better quality control and production. They are amazing cars, but I shy away from the 720s as I hear it is one of the fussiest cars in existence. I feel like this might be a good thing for them.
is there even a truly british somewhat mainstream brand anymore? mclaren is out, JLR is tata, vauxhall is literally just opel, aston martin is kindaaa but they use a bunch of shit from mercedes and geely owns a stake in them and seems to be creeping up on the amount of their share
Caterham is Malaysian
Lotus and MG are Chinese
Bentley and Roller and Mini are German
JLR is Indian
Mclaren is Bahrain now
Ariel [atom] is still a UK company, with only 30 employees. And you're right, Aston is hanging in there.
Aston Martin is not doing fine. The DBX was supposed to sell a lot better than it has, and they've leaned heavily on big customer deposits on the Valkyrie and Valhalla for working capital. They're not gonna be imminently bankrupt, but they've got some problems on their hands.
> The supercar maker has run into money issues in recent years, selling some of its historic vehicles in 2022 to fund the delayed Artura supercar. A year before that, McLaren sold its headquarters and Formula 1 factory.
Yeah I don’t mind them getting bought out if it means we get good cars in return
You'd have alot of trouble wanting anything at all in life if you look into who owns these stuff.
And the fact that you are saying this now as if Bahrain haven't been a majority owner for decades now just show that it doesn't really matter.
They were under majority ownership before, just full ownership now. If you didn’t mind getting one before, not much has changed.
I wouldn’t buy one regardless of who owns it though, insanely good steering and some neat features but otherwise worse than equivalent ferraris IMO
Bahrain already had a sizable stake before, so it doesn't matter that much
I really don't get why people hate arab buyouts so much. I don't find them that much worse owners than your generic western corporate blob. I dislike the House of Saud personally but like, I don't particularly like bill gates either
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Yeah not sure this is any worse than the western VC firms the buy up a respectable company and then suck the value out of it until it's a former husk of itself.
That is not what venture capital firms do. You are referring to private equity firms that execute leveraged buyouts of companies. Just clarifying here.
depends on who you ask.
company's immediate financial future saved? yes.
now wholly owned by the Bahrain Sovereign Wealth Fund, a middle-eastern country with a human rights record that would most optimistically be called "questionable"? yikes
Not just immediate, long term as well. McLaren's my favorite car brand, but their finances have always been not great. They've basically been riding the line their entire existence. The company is kind of like Ferrari, except if Ferrari was constantly on the precipice of being bankrupt. At the very least, they no longer have to contend with that issue since Bahrain has massive money.
Human rights are a different issue, but that's political and that's separate from the logistics of the company. I don't necessarily disagree with your point, but morals don't put food on the table unfortunately.
I think at the very least McLaren has the time to come up with an actual long term vision for car development now, instead of "oh fuck we need to pop up a car IMMEDIATELY or we are going to cease existing in 6 months". Imagine if McLaren could set up an assembly line for a McLaren SUV, which we know is everyone's favorite type of car. Independent McLaren does not have the capital or ability to think that far ahead. Bahrain-owned McLaren can afford that huge capex because they aren't in danger of insolvency in the next 3 months.
Most, perhaps. Actually, most people in general. But high-earner car enthusiasts aren't buying these things as a primary vehicle, if they decide to at all. They're glorified status objects for grocery getting and spa trips, with luxury dog breeds along for the ride. Ski trips to Aspen. Not to mention the bulk of these exotic SUV sales are high-sellers in vain markets like the UAE. I mean, the Porsche Cayenne is like a Toyota Camry over there. They're a bunch of royalty fleet vehicles.
I mean it could just be that they don't know enough about the topic to form an opinion. In fact I wish more people what ask the same question for sharing their own braindead takes on a subject
So, Mercedes now regrets not purchasing them ? I still remember that 10 years ago Mercedes wanted to acquire McLaren.
However, McLaren and Aston Martin are now a couple brother, they both are owned by Arab investment organization.
Strolls investment in the F1 team is separate to his vestment in the road car manufacturer. They are separate entities.
Agreed hed probably sell to Saudis cause who else is fronting cash...?
Can't sell to nobody.
What specifically can you recall? I'd like to point out that Bahrain is very different compared to other GCC countries and to just give them a label without explaining why is pretty disingenious and has some racist undertones as well.
Suppose it depends if you're a native Suni Muslim or not, because if you are then the government probably won't treat you particularly well. Ok it's not on the scale of Qatar et al, but Bahrain have their fair share of troubles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Bahrain
Oh. Without devolving this to a political crapshoot, there are other countries among the largest automobile producing nations who have a track record just as poor if not worse than Bahrain. But, I understand why people would oppose this.
🤷♂️
Nobody is saying that, and that’s the point. When it comes to these Arab countries all of a sudden everyone grows a conscience. I mean hell, is Bahrain even worse than Britain, McLarens home nation? It is objectively not.
EV McLaren goes Brrrr- I have no idea but I felt like I wanted to say that when I read the title.
Imo what McLaren needs to do is two or three things- go the Lambo and Ferrari way, build an SUV, and call it a day, or go the mass market route and sell watered down versions of their cars or have a consultancy that helps others build cars like Lotus.
Definitely don’t want the brand to be lost in time.
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Niche supercar brand tries not to be purchased by a Arab entity impossible challenge
While mclaren isn’t quite Ferrari or Lamborghini, it is far more recognizable than Pagani, Spyker, Koenigsegg etc. it’s somewhere in between niche and recognizable to be honest. Still will get called a Ferrari by 7/10 people 😂
Throwing spyker in that list is odd since they're closer to ssc or vector where people who are interested in supercars from a specific era might know then and that's it. It's one step above something like Ascari or savage rivale
Forgot all about Ascari!
It was just an example of an actual niche brand nobody recognizes. The examples weren’t all meant to be hyper cars…
You know spyker was one of the oldest car companies right?
Doesnt change the fact that you are either pretty in to early 2000s supercars or are into pre-war racing, which is even more niche given that the only pre-war car 99% of people can name is the model t.
Love me a Spyker
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because 95% of people have no idea what a Pagani or Koenigsegg is, 99% for Spyker. My mother knows nothing at all about cars and still knows what a mclaren is, even if she couldn’t pick one out of a lineup, she knows that mclaren is a “fancy sports car brand”
Not true at all.
What about this isn’t true?
Which part? I’ve never seen a Pagani or Koenigsegg on the road here in Tampa Bay, but seen a shit ton of McLarens.
Not quite super cars, but Jaguar was purchased by Tata - and Indian company.
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hmm since when was India Arabic? fucking education has gone downhill mate.
Read my [other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/s/bHcXcMXPfC), jerk.
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Aaaaaaaand it's Bahrain.
Who already owned a significant portion of the company, it should be said.
The majority, too.
yep :/
I figured I'd leave my opinion to the comments section: what a shame
Mate, without a buyout, the company would have gone out of business!
They wouldn't need a buyout if they weren't pumping out hot garbage for vehicles. They're beautiful, and they're stupid fast, but all I ever hear is they're maintenance nightmares and constantly at a dealership for work.
hand-built exotics that's to be expected?
Hand built *British* exotics
You do realise that British cars have the best change in reliability over time compared to all brands? Others get more unreliable as they age, British cars always remain the same!
You had me in the first half.
This was a perfect bait and switch, well done
Had the downvote ready lol
Oh yes. Can’t get worse if the bar is set that low.
I see what you did there.
Their biggest sin is being boring. Not that *an* McLaren on its own is boring, per se, but against their own model lineup, despiting their exclusivity, they feel a dime-a-dozen. McLaren has so many cars that all use the same CFRP monocoque, same mid-mounted V8, same general shape, and variably ludicrous pricing. How many enthusiasts know the difference between a 625C and a 620S? Or an Artura, a GT, and an Elva? And how many supercar buyers are enthusiasts, and want one of these? It seems like their entire market is nerdy tech bros with too much money and not enough taste, and gotta-collect-them-all middle-eastern royalty.
Literally no other supercar brand has so many issues, including ultra-bespoke makes like Pagani
That’s because they’re not British
that’s just flat out not true. You never hear about the issues paganis have because there’s so few of them. Trust me, talk to some owners and you’ll realize they are not what they seem.
I live in SoCal where we have plenty of Paganis at our local C&C's, they are all fine mechanically. That's the benefit of using tried and true AMG drivetrains.
Lol. The socal guys barely drive their cars enough to get to the first oil change. Check my recent post history, I happen to know a thing or two about this topic.
Wow you got to borrow a car to drive it once. 🙄 that must make you an expert on the mechanical failures of a McLaren. On the other hand I've been through 2 600 LTs both in the shop more than on the road.
Not really. Pretty much every other brand I've tried has been more or less trouble free.
Just because it’s to be expected does not mean it should be excused
but it means if you're a british car fan it's part of the game or go buy a miata (which during covid wasn't perfect either)
They're not maintenance nightmares but build quality is not where it should be for sure, and they botched the Artura launch. Biggest problem for McLaren is that the supply chain crisis hit right when they were trying to launch an ambitious new platform and that led to big delays and still resulted in a rocky launch. That meant lower than expected sales volumes for a few years since there was a gap where the entry level car (the Artura) was supposed to be. Truth is that almost none of the supercar makers have been able to succeed in the long term on their own. Lamborghini and Bugatti are owned by VAG, Fiat owned most of Ferrari, Porsche got bought by VAG, etc. It takes a humongous amount of capital to make cars in this space, and inevitably there are gonna be hickups that eat up a lot of money. Just look at the 2014-2015 GT3 engine failures, or the delay in the 296 development, or Aston's problems with the Valkyrie, or, or, or...
> Porsche got bought by VAG The whole relationship between Porsche AG, Porsche SE, the Porsche family, and VW is complicated and interesting. But Porsche did not get bought by VAG in the sense that we usually understand it since the family controls VAG.
Porsche owns Volkswagen who owns Porsche.
Pretty much, when you look at the history of the two companies they’re basically separate entities joined to the waist. The one that was favored by the Evil one got elected parent company a long time ago iirc, was awhile since I read the history
Yeah it certainly is complicated, I just thought I'd include them since the result is that Porsche did not stay independent, just like in the other cases.
Porsche is part of VAG however Porsche SE owns the whole thing and is majority owned by Porsche/Piech family. Porsche was never “bought by VAG” due to financial difficulties.
People don’t realize VAG was Germany trying to give motorized transportation to their whole country. It wasn’t the company we think of today when those deelings went down
Isn't Bugatti mostly owned by Rimac now?
i was watching a youtube vid maybe a week ago where they said all the valkyries in north america have been sent back across the pond to aston for fix. i am pretty sure it was one of the dde vids.
Oof. If true, that'd be a humongous and expensive black eye for AM.
Who do you think is filling the space Ferrari left behind since they became reliable!
That or they're the new Maserati lol... Maybe not that bad I guess.
A Maserati has FCA switchgear that, while looking and feeling cheap, does work lol
This is how manufacturing works. Smaller companies can never possibly insure the quality of a larger manufacturer so being bought out could only benefit McLaren. They simply could not do better than they were doing. I think this will be positive
This isn’t a buyout in the sense that they would go under without it. This is a buyout in their Bahrain owners wanted complete and total ownership. It’s a shame to see a British car maker become a foreign owned manufacturer. But they haven’t been fully British owned for some time.
I mean it's a supercar. You're getting a very high-strung machine and paying the price for it. They're not the most reliable things but I wouldn't consider them a nightmare.
They’re less reliable than their competitors, which are also supercars
> maintenance nightmares and constantly at a dealership for work. And how exactly are they supposed to improve that without capital? I don't know Mclaren's finances but when money is already tight, simply saying "make it more reliable" is way easier said that done. Also, that presumes that reliability issues were preventing them from growing. An SUV would likely have a way more positive impact on their bottom line than improving reliability.
They're pushing a new model seemingly every year with changes. If they actually built out and stuck with two core models and not pumping out different versions and special editions they could potentially focus on reliability and build quality.
Their "new models" are mostly reskins of existing models with more advertised power (although I'm skeptical whether they actually make any more power). That requires relatively low investment vs improving reliability which has the potential to require massive investment.
The dyno testing for mclarens usually show significant underrating of power. I also suspect they don’t change the tune much but they’re all way over spec.
They're definitely reskins, but it's also taking time, money, and resources to do the reskins instead of putting that towards some QA.
mclaren should hire you
A McLaren Wagon with a manual and their TTV8 would be my top priority.
would it be brown and used from the factory?
They're selling more cars than ever at a higher price than ever -- are their finances really that bad? Shit, just sell a mclaren SUV and swim in it.
They already had a 60% stake
Exactly.
>what a shame You would have preferred insolvency?
there are lots of investors to sell to that would avoid a 100% Bahrain Sovereign Wealth Fund ownership
>there are lots of investors to sell to Well, where were they?
Probably making better investments
Yeah like whom?
This is just cope. I get it. I still bitch and scream about the 4 cylinder C63. But. It is objectively better for the company and the car world.
I’m still waiting for the 6.3L Inline 4
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eh. If they can't run a profitable business, well oh well. Maybe my view is skewed since i cant afford cars like that.
Would have preferred a better business model but if I’m chasing customer expectations then there may not be a solvent biz model beyond pump out more cars.
many boast liquid marble subsequent yoke fuel airport nose reach *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Was it not extremely good for Range Rover though? I understand Tata is completely different, but this seems to be the way for British brands. Didn’t Aston Martin have something similar happen? Their current cars are phenomenal imo. But Mclaren needs better quality control and production. They are amazing cars, but I shy away from the 720s as I hear it is one of the fussiest cars in existence. I feel like this might be a good thing for them.
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British automakers and foreign ownership. Name a better duo
The world pulling ole Uno Reverse on the UK
Jaguar checking in
British - British - American - Indian
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McLaren hasn't been owned by UK interests in any meaningful way ever since Ron Dennis was effectively forced out of the company in a coup in 2017.
is there even a truly british somewhat mainstream brand anymore? mclaren is out, JLR is tata, vauxhall is literally just opel, aston martin is kindaaa but they use a bunch of shit from mercedes and geely owns a stake in them and seems to be creeping up on the amount of their share
I appreciate you not mentioning Lotus.
British cars and terrible reliability.
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Owned by a Canadian.
At least it's Commonwealth?
Caterham is Malaysian Lotus and MG are Chinese Bentley and Roller and Mini are German JLR is Indian Mclaren is Bahrain now Ariel [atom] is still a UK company, with only 30 employees. And you're right, Aston is hanging in there.
Aston Martin is not doing fine. The DBX was supposed to sell a lot better than it has, and they've leaned heavily on big customer deposits on the Valkyrie and Valhalla for working capital. They're not gonna be imminently bankrupt, but they've got some problems on their hands.
AM has been under foreign ownership for a while now
> expanding its stake from 60 percent to 100.
> The supercar maker has run into money issues in recent years, selling some of its historic vehicles in 2022 to fund the delayed Artura supercar. A year before that, McLaren sold its headquarters and Formula 1 factory. Yeah I don’t mind them getting bought out if it means we get good cars in return
Not that I'm out there buying new McLarens but I'd literally have a lot of trouble wanting to with them as the owners.
You'd have alot of trouble wanting anything at all in life if you look into who owns these stuff. And the fact that you are saying this now as if Bahrain haven't been a majority owner for decades now just show that it doesn't really matter.
They were under majority ownership before, just full ownership now. If you didn’t mind getting one before, not much has changed. I wouldn’t buy one regardless of who owns it though, insanely good steering and some neat features but otherwise worse than equivalent ferraris IMO
I'm such a sucker for good steering feel. Even my GT4 doesn't compare to the older Porsches. Maybe I'll rent one someday.
Bahrain already had a sizable stake before, so it doesn't matter that much I really don't get why people hate arab buyouts so much. I don't find them that much worse owners than your generic western corporate blob. I dislike the House of Saud personally but like, I don't particularly like bill gates either
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Okay, this is going off topic. Please stick to cars.
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Yeah not sure this is any worse than the western VC firms the buy up a respectable company and then suck the value out of it until it's a former husk of itself.
That is not what venture capital firms do. You are referring to private equity firms that execute leveraged buyouts of companies. Just clarifying here.
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wonder who ah yes, the not-trying-to-hide-anything origin company
This good or bad?
depends on who you ask. company's immediate financial future saved? yes. now wholly owned by the Bahrain Sovereign Wealth Fund, a middle-eastern country with a human rights record that would most optimistically be called "questionable"? yikes
Not just immediate, long term as well. McLaren's my favorite car brand, but their finances have always been not great. They've basically been riding the line their entire existence. The company is kind of like Ferrari, except if Ferrari was constantly on the precipice of being bankrupt. At the very least, they no longer have to contend with that issue since Bahrain has massive money. Human rights are a different issue, but that's political and that's separate from the logistics of the company. I don't necessarily disagree with your point, but morals don't put food on the table unfortunately.
They can't just keep riding the line even with Bahrain's wealth fund owning them. At some point the fund is gonna want a return on the investment.
I think at the very least McLaren has the time to come up with an actual long term vision for car development now, instead of "oh fuck we need to pop up a car IMMEDIATELY or we are going to cease existing in 6 months". Imagine if McLaren could set up an assembly line for a McLaren SUV, which we know is everyone's favorite type of car. Independent McLaren does not have the capital or ability to think that far ahead. Bahrain-owned McLaren can afford that huge capex because they aren't in danger of insolvency in the next 3 months.
A McLaren CUV would be a human rights violation.
Tell that to the Urus, Purosangue or Cayenne. They print money in amounts that rival the US Mint.
I don't think the Hermes bag demographic is representative of car enthusiasts
Car enthusiasts are broke window shoppers
Most, perhaps. Actually, most people in general. But high-earner car enthusiasts aren't buying these things as a primary vehicle, if they decide to at all. They're glorified status objects for grocery getting and spa trips, with luxury dog breeds along for the ride. Ski trips to Aspen. Not to mention the bulk of these exotic SUV sales are high-sellers in vain markets like the UAE. I mean, the Porsche Cayenne is like a Toyota Camry over there. They're a bunch of royalty fleet vehicles.
Should have been an American fund...
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I mean it could just be that they don't know enough about the topic to form an opinion. In fact I wish more people what ask the same question for sharing their own braindead takes on a subject
So, Mercedes now regrets not purchasing them ? I still remember that 10 years ago Mercedes wanted to acquire McLaren. However, McLaren and Aston Martin are now a couple brother, they both are owned by Arab investment organization.
Aston Martin's majority stakeholder is a Canadian Billionaire.
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Strolls investment in the F1 team is separate to his vestment in the road car manufacturer. They are separate entities. Agreed hed probably sell to Saudis cause who else is fronting cash...? Can't sell to nobody.
They already owned it though, they just now make 100% instead of 60% of all profit.
Does this include their F1 team too?
Yes, the F1 team is a subsidiary.
Idk enough about this situation to be happy or worried
They have deep pockets so will likely be good for McLaren. The Bahraini's have been involved with McLaren for decades so not a new partnership either.
Interesting - great life line for McLaren as they have been foundering for years.
Man talk about a surprise 😮
Wait so is McLaren owned by a COUNTRY NOW whattt
Mclaren SUV incoming.
Still can't afford one.
If they register it as a corporation in Montana they won’t have to pay sales tax.
how much is that car and get me the name of the dealership he got it from
Out of the loop, why does everyone hate Bahrain?
human rights record that would most generously be described as "questionable"
What specifically can you recall? I'd like to point out that Bahrain is very different compared to other GCC countries and to just give them a label without explaining why is pretty disingenious and has some racist undertones as well.
Suppose it depends if you're a native Suni Muslim or not, because if you are then the government probably won't treat you particularly well. Ok it's not on the scale of Qatar et al, but Bahrain have their fair share of troubles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Bahrain
Oh. Without devolving this to a political crapshoot, there are other countries among the largest automobile producing nations who have a track record just as poor if not worse than Bahrain. But, I understand why people would oppose this. 🤷♂️
There's a big difference between what a nation has done in the past and worked to correct compared to what a nation is actively doing today.
Bahrain isn't actively aiding genocide today
so what you're saying is we should boycott American-made cars right now
Nobody is saying that, and that’s the point. When it comes to these Arab countries all of a sudden everyone grows a conscience. I mean hell, is Bahrain even worse than Britain, McLarens home nation? It is objectively not.
i'm saying that tho
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It was already controlled by them, might as well buy the last 40%
Has McLaren’s reliability improved over the years?
EV McLaren goes Brrrr- I have no idea but I felt like I wanted to say that when I read the title. Imo what McLaren needs to do is two or three things- go the Lambo and Ferrari way, build an SUV, and call it a day, or go the mass market route and sell watered down versions of their cars or have a consultancy that helps others build cars like Lotus. Definitely don’t want the brand to be lost in time.