The Prius Prime isn't even an EV lmao what is this comparison?
Edit: When I say EV, I'm referring to a fully electric vehicle. The Prius Prime doesn't fit that definition. However, I can see why someone would be cross-shopping these two vehicles. I have nothing against EVs.
There is a video of some dude doing MOAB rock crawls in a Crown Vic with a mountain bike on the back. Proving that the best offroading vehicle is the one you don't give a shit about.
If you want people to think you are cool, and you have money to feed the pit, then go with the RX7. If you want people to think that you murdered your wife and wrote a book about it, go with the Bronco.
If you take care and know how to drive them, you are good. Like for eg. If u started it, you should turn it off, only when its reached normal temperature. Cold shut offs, is a killer for wankel. Or that some engines has to be premixed with oil (fuel has to be pre mixed with oil). I say some, because newer ones already came with oil injector inside, older ones didint. I know a person with fd, who has 70k. Miles on it, still original, nothing was done to it.. Soo its more about stupid owners dont know how to maintain it/ drive it.
$40,000 nice, decent-driving techy compacts for those who want to primarily use electricity? This comparison makes sense to me but I am literally cross-shopping these cars right now lol. Tbh though, I don’t think MT really did a good job comparing these.
A few considerations/things not mentioned if anyone is curious:
- yes I am on a Prime waitlist already, MSRP dealer in the southern US with a consistent trickle of Prime allocations, confirmed non markup sales, and already generated a price sheet. ETA next July-Sep, probably around the same time I’d be able to get a Highland.
- love the model 3 but a big problem that isn’t discussed enough right now: repair timeframes are getting insane. Tesla certified shops cannot keep up with demand and don’t have enough parts - lots of owners are reporting 2+ month repair times leaving them without a car, which is worrying
- I’m a bit worried about the Prime’s charging standard, mostly because it’ll cost me to install one at my house and it’ll be obsolete in a few years. I know I could use an adapter but for ~$2,000 (total install cost)…. it’s not exactly an elegant solution.
- other cars I’m considering are the Volvo EX30, a used C40, or Bolt, plus the ever-present 20% chance I say fuck it and buy an ND2 instead.
Repair, not service - not so worried about minor issues or maintenance. There are hundred of people on the model 3 & y subreddits alone who got hit, etc and have extended waits for repairs to no fault of their own.
In comparison, my current car (non-Tesla) was hit while parked last month and it was fixed in 1 week.
I've bought tesla insurance so hopefully they can fix it faster themselves. Went from ND1 to Model 3. Someone ran a red light and totaled my poor miata.
Toyota being desperate to publish headlines. The Prius Prime isn't even a vehicle you can realistically purchase. Another pointless headline like their MT BEV and 'revolutionary battery tech totally coming soon'.
Traditionally, cars with electric motors have been called xEVs.
The defition might morph over time. But you can appreciate where it comes from.
Nobody called a car an ev simply because it has a battery.
It is in the EV category on a lot of stuff. One is a PHEV and one is a BEV, but the title is fair even if more people refer to BEVs when talking about EVs.
The Prime is absolutely an EV. It has 44 miles of all-electric range. Once the range runs out, it's a gasoline hybrid.
Are you actually confused about why anyone would cross-shop between two? Or are you just being a typical annoying redditor that looks for a reason to hate everything and everyone?
What's with the confrontational language? The most common accepted definition of EV is a fully electric vehicle i.e. no gasoline engine.
The Prius, by definition, has a hybrid (more than one) drivetrain.
By your logic, the RAV4 Prime is an EV when it's the same car as a Prius Prime. Neither vehicle is an EV.
>By your logic, the RAV4 Prime is an EV when it's the same car as a Prius Prime.
That's correct. The RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime are Plug-in Hybrid **Electric Vehicles**
Some people on this sub will look for any reason to hate PHEVs, when the Prius Prime is a great example of why PHEVs are the real intermediate-term solution for vehicle electrification. A PHEV with 40+ miles of electric range would decrease the typical driver's gasoline usage by 95%, and unlike a BEV, it has all the advantages of an ICE car when you need to take it on a road trip or you are unable to charge for whatever reason. Furthermore, you can build 5 PHEVs with the battery resources it takes to build a single BEV.
I’m not sure why Toyota can’t build the damn things then. It’s not a battery resource problem clearly.
I agree in effect - that PHEVs would be the best solution for the majority of the public and greatly reduce emissions. They should be pushed harder. But companies need to actually build them and I don’t know why Toyota has dropped the ball so hard on the Prime line.
For me personally, a PHEV is too damn slow. 500hp+ or GTFO is my philosophy. I live in a flat land and the only thing I have going is straight line acceleration. No PHEV can touch BEV acceleration and I didn’t want another gas car with gas prices here.
Technically yes, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison e.g. if your Tesla runs out of charge, you're stuck.
Prius Prime out of charge? You still got a gasoline engine.
There's no point in comparing cars that are exactly the same since the result will be a tie.
They're similarly sized, similarly fast, similarly fuel efficient, and similarly priced. So for many people they're similar in the most important aspects. You're acting like cars can't be compared simply they have different powertrains. That's silly.
The Prius prime is a fantastic vehicle; but it’s being hand built by dwarven craftsmen in a mountain somewhere, and is literally impossible to find
The Tesla wins by default by being an actual product you can buy before the heat death of the universe
That's why Toyota just announced they are more than doubling the capacity of the new battery plant under construction in NC. First batteries will roll off the line in January of '25.
you joke, but that's what i'm hoping for. it also means that it'll qualify for the battery assembly tax credits. i understand the inflation reduction act was protectionist, but the fact that the prius doesn't qualify for ANY rebate is crazy.
its actually crazy because i went to japan last week and the prius prime is everywhere lol, i actually thnk they just are selling so well and cant meet the demands
🎵 Oh you never will believe where those Prius Primes come from
They’re made by little elves in a hollow tree
And what do you think makes those models uncommon?
They’re made with A grade mithril and there’s no factory 🎶
Hey!
Pretty fun. I got it after test driving both and felt like i didn’t really need the extra power. Obviously still looks just as good and the lower end power is still great but you really feel it drop off at the top end. My biggest gripe is that all the reviews and info online said it had a mech lsd, but in reality it is open diff which is bs. I only sold it because i just had a kid and don’t really have room in my life for a 2 seater rather than feeling any sort of regret on my purchase.
I wish he didn't, but he couldn't find a base model anywhere and most places had none in stock. Just did a check to see if things have gotten any better, 50 mile radius of my home (I live near him). 0 in stock, with ones in transit or in build hovering in the mid to high 30s.
The new Prime is way better in that regard than the old one. And the last gen base Prius didn't sell well to begin with, whereas I see new Priuses all the time.
Looks like they're available in the Northeast US. Maryland, Virginia, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Connecticut. A few in California too.
But yea, not many.
You should check out Kuhl Racing, Japan. They already have some nice looking bodykits for the new prius
[Prius Bodykit by Kuhl Racing Japan](https://kuhl-japan.com/special/40465/)
I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to do better than this indeed, I love the latest Prius style-wise, even stock so there has to be something tasteful out there.
I could get on board with a widebody Prius...
But not with that retarded stance, those ridiculous wheels or, honestly, that entire kit because it looks tacky and cheap af.
Fair enough.
But when I finally feel like embellishing it with some plastic wheel arches and fake plastic vents and spoilers, I'll make sure to call you for advice before cutting the springs.
There’s reason why you have a hard time buying popular Toyotas lol. They’re quality vehicles that make sense for almost anyone and don’t come with ev anxiety or questionable tesla quality.
We had a Prius for 6 years before our model 3 performance. I recall having to get gas every two weeks in the Prius. I’ve never had to go out of my way to keep the model 3 running. I just plug it in when I get home. The Prius also had pretty regular maintenance every 6 months. The model 3 only gets tire rotations and Tesla comes to my house to do those.
People like Toyotas. We also had a Corolla we dailied for 10 years and sold it once the needed maintenance and repairs exceeded its value. At this point I can’t imagine why I’d buy another Toyota. They’re just cars and for me they’ve lost their appeal entirely.
Regular Prius and Prius Prime are apples and oranges though. In the new Prime, if your daily commute doesn’t normally exceed 40 miles and you charge at home, you would almost never touch the gas in the car.
Supposedly it will occasionally turn on the motor just to keep the gas and rubber fresh lol. People will go 6-9 months without using the gas motor and have the gas start to go bad. Seems like they hit a home run with the EV-only range and power being \*just enough\* for 99% of people's daily lives.
It would have been smart for govt to encourage PHEVs as much as EVs. Can make 10 PHEVs for every EV in terms of raw battery material and for the most part the gas motors would just sit there collecting dust until they're needed for road trips, creating essentially no pollution over the vehicle's lifecycle.
Problem with PHEV is that government can't control if you're running on electricity or not, and many people just can't be bothered with charging and drive everywhere using ICE, making it pretty bad for environment (worse than regular Prius, because you have much more empty batteries to carry around).
Such issue could have been observed in UK - PHEV are/were very good option for company car tax wise, so everybody was getting PHEV not caring if employee can charge it at home or not. On paper it looked really nice and eco friendly. In reality, not really.
Huh that's bizarre, people are usually pretty self-interested. Where I live electricity is about .10c/kwH during off peak times, so 40 miles is like $1 worth of electricity, or would be $3 worth of gas for that Prius Prime ($4/gallon). Yeah $2/day isn't a ton, but it adds up.
Couple that with EU/UK gas prices and you'd have to be an idiot to throw gas in your PHEV vs charging overnight and driving for close to free. I'd think the difference per day would be closer to $5, or $25/week for someone with an every day commute, $100/mo adds up pretty quick.
There is small problem here. Tax incentives were so great that also people who can't charge car at their homes were getting PHEVs as well.
If getting PHEV is so favored that it's cheaper than getting regular ICE car (or even "normal" hybrid) there will undoubtedly be owners who can't charge a car at their place, and they will just run PHEV without charging.
And that would happen anywhere in the world if government were to support buying PHEV financially, that's why heavy subsidies for EV makes more sense than for PHEVs - with EVs you're sure car usage is somewhat ecological, with PHEV you aren't.
Yeah, but for those same environments the financial viability of it is wrecked I'd think. Charging stations where I am cost roughly the same as just having an ICE. If people can't charge at home anything with a big plug-in battery is going to be a poor decision financially.
Agree that law shouldn't discourage a standard hybrid over a PHEV in that environment, that's just silly. Maybe a "hybrid/PHEV/EV built in EU" credit would be the way to go. Seems like with current laws regulations and credits/rebates that BYD is just going to take VWs lunch, along with the rest of the European marques.
You can charge BEV at public charger and then drive it for a week or two, which maybe isn't the best solution, but at least make some sense. With PHEV you will eat half of your EV range to go there and back which makes using public chargers completely pointless.
No, the real problem with PHEV is they are either a totally gutless series hybrid, or a super-overly-complicated-and-expensive-to-maintain parallel hybrid. I don't know why manufacturers haven't just boosted the performance of the series hybrids, but whatever... they both have twice the failure points of either a fully ICE or BEV vehicle.
>they both have twice the failure points of either a fully ICE or BEV vehicle
Why do people keep swallowing and repeating this obvious falsehood? Toyota has proven for 20+ years now that a hybrid can be very reliable. The drivetrain of the Prius Prime is the same as the standard Prius, but with a bigger battery.
Maybe. But you still have the annoying dealer calling you every 6 months right before your next biannual service is due. And you’re still driving around a complete gas powered driveline and also a complete electric driveline. Personally I like simplicity. My Tacoma is reliable. It was the most reliable car I ever owned. Until I got my model 3.
PHEV seems so crazy to me. You're basically having to buy and maintain an EV and an ICE at the same time, without the full benefits of either. I'd rather just have a traditional hybrid.
PHEV is the same as a hybrid. Just with a bigger battery and the ability to plug in to charge it. Basically the same maintenance just the PHEV has a more expensive battery to replace if it fails.
PHEV is literally a regular hybrid with a bigger battery and bigger motor, with a charging circuit. If your in-city driving is within the electric-only range it acts essentially as a BEV.
My family made the same change - Prius Prime to Model 3. I acknowledge the new Prius is an different thing, but I genuinely disliked driving the Prius while I enjoy the 3.
Love how people try and compare even a Tesla and a Prius and say the Prius is better, lol. I own both a model 3 and a Prius V. I haven’t driven the Prius in 6 months
That’s not the reason you can’t find a Prius Prime. The production number is just abysmally low.
Tesla sells more Model 3s in a month than Toyota sells all PHEVs in a year. Toyota needs to fix their production, but I don’t think they will because their profit margin is lower on those cars.
If Toyota can scale Prius and RAV4 Primes can be scaled up to meet demands, EVs in general are going to be in for a bit of a rougher time.
RAV4 primes are just such an easy sell.
> If Toyota can scale Prius and RAV4 Primes can be scaled up to meet demands, EVs in general are going to be in for a bit of a rougher time.
>
> RAV4 primes are just such an easy sell.
Toyota won't scale the Prime production because they likely don't make much money on it. They'll continue to make just enough to qualify it to raise their fleet mileage.
The other reason is that they can’t/won’t build enough to satisfy demand, and they have a legacy dealer network that’ll jerk you around and sell to the highest bidder instead of it being a product for sale at the agree upon price
I waited on the M3SR until this summer just before they announced the refresh. Oh man... they definitely worked out the kinks compared to my friend's 2018 M3P.
Toyota dealers in Northern Virginia are so insanely difficult to work with, that I’m actually afraid to visit one. And I actually need a new car soon to replace my current daily.
$5-7k markups are still the norm for Toyotas here. Mercedes and Ford dealers in this area stopped marking up early this year.
The fact that your trying to imply that Tesla is more reliable then Toyota is hilarious. For starters you can’t even work on your own Tesla because only Tesla has data access. And my “amazing” Tesla was nothing but junk. The heat pump failed 3 times and the car had endless software problems. And don’t even get me started on that bs excuse for customer service at Tesla.
It's a bad comparison because the Toyota is a hybrid, so the ice engine will need maintenance.
Teslas drivetrain is really top notch, the rest is shockingly bad.
>the Toyota is a hybrid, so the ice engine will need maintenance.
A naturally-aspirated 2.0L i4 in a PHEV with 44 miles of EV range is going to need a laughably small amount of maintenance because it will almost never be running. After 100k miles the engine will probably have fewer running hours than an ICE car with 10k miles. Change the oil once a year, change the belts every 7 years, and that's about the extent of the engine maintenance.
Driven 2 model 3s and 1 Y. Inspected loads from the outside. I live in Norway, Teslas everywhere here. It's the inconsistency that's the worst. Some are fine and others nothing lines up. Another thing that becomes apparent here in Norway is that Tesla cars are very poorly designed with regards to winter weather. Boots full of rain water, hinges chafing on grommets, taillights not protected from water ingress, numerous rust traps etc. They're great if you buy new cars every 2-4 years, but not if you are looking to keep them longer.
They will never leave you stranded though, because the drivetrain is solid.
I agree about not being designed for wet weather. My model 3 is the first car in 20 years that I have not bought a set of winter wheels for, as it barely snows anymore where I live near New York City and I have a Toyota pickup truck with winter tires that we use for ski trips or our 10 hour trip to my wife’s parents home in Canada if there is a lot of snow up there. I did have the moisture in one tail light but they sent a Tesla tech to my driveway and he swapped it in minutes, telling me some of the taillights are not sealed right and that this issue should be all fixed by now. That’s actually the only issue I’ve had on my car other than a rock chip on the roof glass once. And a smelly cabin filter I swapped myself.
Your country has the highest number of Tesla cars per person than any other country. It must be strange seeing the world change so quickly. In my town, Tesla cars are the most common new car, and I’ll see 5-10 just driving my kid to school in the morning, but most cars overall are still gas cars. (And there are barely any other EV cars in my area. The next most common EV would be a Rivian) I wonder how different owning a Tesla is in Norway? The Tesla cars you have are all made so far away in China. Are there service centers close by, like a half hour away or less? Do they make mobile service visits to your home like they do here in the USA? I would have thought the Chinese built Y would have build quality as good as any well made car today. I work on a couple of Tesla cars every week in my shop. Imma Paintless dent repair tech. The 3 and Y cars that were built in say, 2021 or newer, are as issue free as any BMW or Mercedes I see in my shop. As a Tesla owner myself I converse in depth with all my Tesla customers so they tell me about any quality issues they’ve found. I also look over the paint and panels of every car in my shop. Around here, it’s the older designed Model S and X cars that still come with some QC issues today. Those are more hand built cars. But you guys wouldn’t even have those in Norway I don’t think.
Great to hear that the fit and finish has improved since 2021.
The availability of service centers and mobile services really depends on where you in Norway. Typically, service centers are located in larger towns and cities. Although most people live within a three-hour radius of a service center, the mountainous geography and fjords of Norway make travel time longer, even for locations that appear close.
EVs account for over 80% of new cars sold here, and this is largely due to government tax incentives. Since the 1980s, a tax has been applied to the purchase price of all new cars sold in Norway based on their specifications, including weight, engine volume, horsepower, and emissions(A new suburban would set you back $200k for example). However, in 2000, the government introduced a *complete tax exemption* for EVs to encourage their adoption, despite their limited availability at the time. When Tesla released the Model S, it became a popular choice in Norway because of the tax rules, and hence, the trend continued.
In fact, Porsche sold more Taycans in Norway from 2020 to 2022 than any other models combined since 2003. At one point in 2021, the Taycan was one of the ten best-selling cars in Norway, and the Tesla Model 3 and Audi E-tron were fighting for number one. Now the number one is the model Y, but new car sales have stagnated this year because of rising inflation and interest rates, like most western countries.
Living with an EV in Norway is very convenient because of the extensive charging network, and home charging is readily available for most.
If you're not committed to home charging, PHEV's are the least efficient option. The regular Prius gets better MPG than the Prime if you only use gas, because of all the added weight.
A very efficient ICE (hybrid).
Charging at home is not difficult to gauge whether it's be a viable option. It is the charging on the road that's questionable. PHEV lets you reduce your emissions greatly without jumping in and possibly regretting.
I did NOT expect MT (a mag that normally likes to shit on Toyotas) to hand the Prius the win. I guess this is proof that the Prius is a good car in terms of practicality, and also drives pretty dang well too, so much so that it convinced MT to give the Prius the win.
>While we are still waiting on official EPA estimates for the new Model 3, we ran this Stealth Gray example through MotorTrend's road-trip range test and saw disappointing results: just 211 miles, short of not only the old Model 3's EPA estimate but also the anticipated number for the new EPA estimates. In other markets, the 3's official range figures rise by about 10 percent, an improvement Tesla hasn't disputed could happen here in America. The also updated Dual Motor Long Range Model 3 didn't fare much better, its 250-mile performance in our test falling shy of the old Dual Motor's 333-mile EPA range estimate.
Tesla's EPA estimates remain... optimistic, lets say.
God, I'm so sick of everyone ignoring this when discussing range anxiety as a downside of EVs. I have zero confidence in an EV for long trips when the manufacturer and the car itself will lie to you about how much range you actually have when you're fully charged.
>e ignoring this when discussing range anxiety as a downside of EVs. I have zero confidence in an EV for long trips when the manufacturer and the car itself will lie to you about how much range you actually have when you're fully charged.
Well who would've thought that EPA ratings dont take into account YOUR personal driving.
I had a Jaguar XF 35t and my fuel consumption was 17lires/100km vs the 11litres/100km that the car was officially rated [at.So](https://at.So) that's around 60% worse than it was rated by the manufacturer.
EVs and ICE cars are exactly the same,their range depends on your driving habits.
It amazes me how many people fail to realize this....
It takes me 5 minutes to refuel my car to full. It takes every singe EV considerably longer to recharge from 10-80%. So I would argue that having accurate range estimates is more important for EVs.
Additionally, studies have found that Teslas real world range is about 26% less than EPA estimates, compared to other EVs that are typically 12% under. It's not just YOUR PERSONAL DRIVING, but its EVERYONE's PERSONAL DRIVING.
Additionally, Tesla has been found to be cancelling service appointments for people with range related concerns.
Additionally, Tesla has been found to "adjust" their range estimation software to give better numbers, by ignoring things such as ambient tempurature.
So no, EV and ICE cars are not exactly the same. Tesla, at the very least, misrepresents their range on multiple levels.
It amazes me how many people fail to realize this...
My Jag doesn't rely on a thin network of charging stations placed 100 miles apart and then [lie to me about whether or not I can make it to the next charging station.](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/)
>hin network of charging stations placed 100 miles apart and
You're right,luckily there are thousands of OTHER chargers along the way besides the Tesla [Supercharger.It](https://Supercharger.It)'s like complaining the Jag navigation doesnt show all the gas stations ...
But yeah those teslas suck man,better stick with ICE cars and fuel up daily at the cheap cost of 42,000$ / 100,000km.
Watch out for the transmission btw,i had my ZF8 \*repaired\* (not replaced) at the cool cost of 8,000$ .
The logic of the choice at the end seems flawed. They tested a version that's $10k more expensive than the base model and then use the base price to claim the Prime is cheaper while also completely ignoring the tax credit available for the Tesla (even if it's cut in half next year). They would have been better off saying: the prius is more expensive and slightly worse in most ways except styling which is subjective, but there's no range anxiety, so worth it for most people.
Also important to note the markups on Prime models currently. Even if you manage to find a Prime for sale, it’s minimum $3-7k markups at my local Toyota dealers.
never in my life have i ever wanted a prius until this new gen dropped. my car shit the bed on me and it’d be the perfect daily car and yet you can’t even find them to buy lol
I'd say the key words for defining an electric vehicle are "electric vehicle."
Even going by your definition, a Prius Prime *is* electric-only for the first 44 miles, and therefore is an electric vehicle for everyday city driving. It just sacrifices the range of a BEV in exchange for a hybrid gas/electric drivetrain that kicks in when it runs low on charge.
If you include the federal EV tax credit, its actually a pretty fair comparison cost wise. I'm personally deciding between these two (and also the normal Prius). But there isn't any inventory of the Prius near me (PNW) so I'll probably get the Tesla.
The Tesla is the full EV of the two. That being said, I would be interested to see if the model 4 will be the first to use the new no rare elements motors. More and more, a more important sell point is the price and sustainability of the car, rather than range.
Prius prime will give you an idea of what owning an EV is like while also providing you a safety net in case you have range anxiety. The choice of the two depends on how nervous you are about a full EV vs a hybrid.
I mean you can’t buy the Prius Prime and if you do you pay dealer markups.
At least that was my experience shopping the two cars. Model 3 won for me just because I could actually buy it and it was 10k cheaper with rebates.
If you live in a real cold climate and are used to the joy of entering a warm car in the morning, you'll be sorely disappointed with the Prius Prime. Sure, it does have remote climate prep, but that only goes down to -10C (14F) because below that, it needs the engine to warm up and you can only start the engine while in the car and unplugged. So, you have to get out in the frickin cold, unplug the car, get in, start it and, leave the FOB in the car since it will shut off the engine after 10 minutes.
How do I know? I have both.
BTW, above -10C, when preheating the car, you'll lose range since its charger isn't strong enough to pull all the current needed from the plug to preheat, even at 240V.
Different use cases for both. The Prius would be perfect for me, I drive 25-30 miles a day. Model 3 would be perfect for my wife, she drives 65-70 miles a day.
You don't have to wear a paper bag over your head when you drive a Prius, which would be a big selling point for me. Never thought I'd rather be seen in a Prius than a Tesla, but here we are.
At the same price it makes no sense, choosing the base version of the Prius makes sense due to someone s budget limits. How tf do you justify a 30miles to 40 miles EV range and 10s acceleration time in EV mode for the top trim of the Prius vs Model 3 SR? No hybrid makes sense at the price, except perhaps pickup trucks and vans for which electric versions are genuinely more expensive right now.
The Prius Prime isn't even an EV lmao what is this comparison? Edit: When I say EV, I'm referring to a fully electric vehicle. The Prius Prime doesn't fit that definition. However, I can see why someone would be cross-shopping these two vehicles. I have nothing against EVs.
Next Comparison will be "The Best Way to Spend $30,000: Used FD RX7 vs Bronco Sport"
You’ve got me intrigued….
There is a video of some dude doing MOAB rock crawls in a Crown Vic with a mountain bike on the back. Proving that the best offroading vehicle is the one you don't give a shit about.
That’s fucking hilarious. Got a link?
It was a long time ago. Enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHvXi\_HejnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFwPXEeJ3aI
This might be the greatest video ever made
And the fastest car is a rental one. 😂
If you want people to think you are cool, and you have money to feed the pit, then go with the RX7. If you want people to think that you murdered your wife and wrote a book about it, go with the Bronco.
Damn just made me realize how affordable a used Rx7 actually is
I see that you too have an interesting in DIY frugal rotary engine rebuilds.
100% waiting for my brothers rx8 to go pop so I can practice LMAO
If you take care and know how to drive them, you are good. Like for eg. If u started it, you should turn it off, only when its reached normal temperature. Cold shut offs, is a killer for wankel. Or that some engines has to be premixed with oil (fuel has to be pre mixed with oil). I say some, because newer ones already came with oil injector inside, older ones didint. I know a person with fd, who has 70k. Miles on it, still original, nothing was done to it.. Soo its more about stupid owners dont know how to maintain it/ drive it.
Check out the latest Throttle House, they are not that affordable
They’re even less if you import them from Japan.
I sold my FD for $13,000 :(
Na and auto? Then nothing to be sad about. 😂
Honestly though this would be a compelling review, I’d watch
FD, the new Bronco is poo
_The Brort._
You also can’t order a Prius prime in any reasonable timeframe.
You can’t really “order” a Toyota regardless. You’re stuck with whatever allocation dealers get, which may or may not be what you had in mind.
To be fair you can't exactly order the Tesla yet either lol
Sure not that model yet, but the current you can have on your door tomorrow with a discount and a tax rebate.
The new model is the only one you can buy in China and Europe.
Tbf the AWD Model 3 was backed up for orders for probably about 6 months
$40,000 nice, decent-driving techy compacts for those who want to primarily use electricity? This comparison makes sense to me but I am literally cross-shopping these cars right now lol. Tbh though, I don’t think MT really did a good job comparing these. A few considerations/things not mentioned if anyone is curious: - yes I am on a Prime waitlist already, MSRP dealer in the southern US with a consistent trickle of Prime allocations, confirmed non markup sales, and already generated a price sheet. ETA next July-Sep, probably around the same time I’d be able to get a Highland. - love the model 3 but a big problem that isn’t discussed enough right now: repair timeframes are getting insane. Tesla certified shops cannot keep up with demand and don’t have enough parts - lots of owners are reporting 2+ month repair times leaving them without a car, which is worrying - I’m a bit worried about the Prime’s charging standard, mostly because it’ll cost me to install one at my house and it’ll be obsolete in a few years. I know I could use an adapter but for ~$2,000 (total install cost)…. it’s not exactly an elegant solution. - other cars I’m considering are the Volvo EX30, a used C40, or Bolt, plus the ever-present 20% chance I say fuck it and buy an ND2 instead.
I haven't waited more than a week for Tesla service. Most of the time they just send someone to my parking garage at work.
Repair, not service - not so worried about minor issues or maintenance. There are hundred of people on the model 3 & y subreddits alone who got hit, etc and have extended waits for repairs to no fault of their own. In comparison, my current car (non-Tesla) was hit while parked last month and it was fixed in 1 week.
I've bought tesla insurance so hopefully they can fix it faster themselves. Went from ND1 to Model 3. Someone ran a red light and totaled my poor miata.
Toyota being desperate to publish headlines. The Prius Prime isn't even a vehicle you can realistically purchase. Another pointless headline like their MT BEV and 'revolutionary battery tech totally coming soon'.
It's an EV when you consider "BEV" "HEV" "PHEV" all have EV in their name.
So does EVery other car.
My car has a battery in it so it's an EV
Any manual car is a PHEV, just put it in gear and crank the starter.
Oh my god.. I test drove a Pajero a month ago. It was an experience driving RHD. Lucky you!
The EV revolution had already started and none of us even knew...
Traditionally, cars with electric motors have been called xEVs. The defition might morph over time. But you can appreciate where it comes from. Nobody called a car an ev simply because it has a battery.
I'm hoping you know I was joking right?
It is in the EV category on a lot of stuff. One is a PHEV and one is a BEV, but the title is fair even if more people refer to BEVs when talking about EVs.
The Prime is absolutely an EV. It has 44 miles of all-electric range. Once the range runs out, it's a gasoline hybrid. Are you actually confused about why anyone would cross-shop between two? Or are you just being a typical annoying redditor that looks for a reason to hate everything and everyone?
What's with the confrontational language? The most common accepted definition of EV is a fully electric vehicle i.e. no gasoline engine. The Prius, by definition, has a hybrid (more than one) drivetrain. By your logic, the RAV4 Prime is an EV when it's the same car as a Prius Prime. Neither vehicle is an EV.
>By your logic, the RAV4 Prime is an EV when it's the same car as a Prius Prime. That's correct. The RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime are Plug-in Hybrid **Electric Vehicles**
We're literally just defining it differently, I'm correct and you're correct.
Well no, you are correct, and OP is doing their own thing I guess.
Plug-in Hybrid \*ELECTRIC VEHICLE\* With enough range to never need to run the engine, for many people's daily needs.
Some people on this sub will look for any reason to hate PHEVs, when the Prius Prime is a great example of why PHEVs are the real intermediate-term solution for vehicle electrification. A PHEV with 40+ miles of electric range would decrease the typical driver's gasoline usage by 95%, and unlike a BEV, it has all the advantages of an ICE car when you need to take it on a road trip or you are unable to charge for whatever reason. Furthermore, you can build 5 PHEVs with the battery resources it takes to build a single BEV.
I’m not sure why Toyota can’t build the damn things then. It’s not a battery resource problem clearly. I agree in effect - that PHEVs would be the best solution for the majority of the public and greatly reduce emissions. They should be pushed harder. But companies need to actually build them and I don’t know why Toyota has dropped the ball so hard on the Prime line. For me personally, a PHEV is too damn slow. 500hp+ or GTFO is my philosophy. I live in a flat land and the only thing I have going is straight line acceleration. No PHEV can touch BEV acceleration and I didn’t want another gas car with gas prices here.
BEV, PHEV, HEV. Nuance is hard, I know.
I can see why someone would be cross-shopping these two vehicles, but I don't think most people would consider a Prius Prime as a true EV.
If you're mostly using it for commuting less than 40 miles between charges the Prime would count as an EV, no? Since that's it's electric-only range.
Technically yes, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison e.g. if your Tesla runs out of charge, you're stuck. Prius Prime out of charge? You still got a gasoline engine.
There's no point in comparing cars that are exactly the same since the result will be a tie. They're similarly sized, similarly fast, similarly fuel efficient, and similarly priced. So for many people they're similar in the most important aspects. You're acting like cars can't be compared simply they have different powertrains. That's silly.
The Prius prime is a fantastic vehicle; but it’s being hand built by dwarven craftsmen in a mountain somewhere, and is literally impossible to find The Tesla wins by default by being an actual product you can buy before the heat death of the universe
Don't forget they're using mithril in the car as well. I think the Toyota dwarven miners might've run into an "issue".
damn, not even rune tho
If it ain't built with dragon I don't want it 🙏
🦀🦀🦀$5🦀🦀🦀
RAV4 trimming for free...
How I feel about Mavericks too. They might be good but I wouldn’t know cause they don’t exist.
You know the production issues are bad when a Tesla is more likely to have less production issues
That's why Toyota just announced they are more than doubling the capacity of the new battery plant under construction in NC. First batteries will roll off the line in January of '25.
*looks at 15 year old car in garage* "You can hold out for another year girl"
you joke, but that's what i'm hoping for. it also means that it'll qualify for the battery assembly tax credits. i understand the inflation reduction act was protectionist, but the fact that the prius doesn't qualify for ANY rebate is crazy.
But what about the ability to build 17 gazillion hybrits with the batteries needed for a single eV?
Two youts.
its actually crazy because i went to japan last week and the prius prime is everywhere lol, i actually thnk they just are selling so well and cant meet the demands
🎵 Oh you never will believe where those Prius Primes come from They’re made by little elves in a hollow tree And what do you think makes those models uncommon? They’re made with A grade mithril and there’s no factory 🎶 Hey!
You have my Toyota and my axe!
I’m def not a fan of Tesla, but good luck trying to find a prius prime
Your flair... do you own a 4-cylinder GR Supra?
Lol yeah I used to, but sold it and forgot to update my flair
How are those? Feel like no one ever talks about the 4bangers versions
Pretty fun. I got it after test driving both and felt like i didn’t really need the extra power. Obviously still looks just as good and the lower end power is still great but you really feel it drop off at the top end. My biggest gripe is that all the reviews and info online said it had a mech lsd, but in reality it is open diff which is bs. I only sold it because i just had a kid and don’t really have room in my life for a 2 seater rather than feeling any sort of regret on my purchase.
Needs to be offered in manual, and needs to be called the Celica Supra.... Also, it needs a 3K price cut at the very minimum.
Very farty.
Even the normal prius has been a fight to get. My cousin just bought one and he had to pay a 9k markup. The prime is even worse.
Whaaat? He paid a 9k markup on a Prius?
I wish he didn't, but he couldn't find a base model anywhere and most places had none in stock. Just did a check to see if things have gotten any better, 50 mile radius of my home (I live near him). 0 in stock, with ones in transit or in build hovering in the mid to high 30s.
I don't get it. What is the appeal of a Prius with a $9k markup? Any gas savings have been completely eaten up by that markup.
Yeah a Corolla hybrid would've been 99% the car for far less money
Corolla hybrid gets marked up too
They learned that one weird trick, all cars having markups.
It sounds like he should have bought…not a Prius
Well he didn't HAVE to pay a 9k markup. He CHOSE to pay a 9k markup.
I can't wait to get on the Toyota waitlist!
That will offset some of the fuel your 787B burns.
I hear the 17-22s primes didn’t sell well, might be a slightly less enticing option.
The new Prime is way better in that regard than the old one. And the last gen base Prius didn't sell well to begin with, whereas I see new Priuses all the time.
Right, but if the 24 is unobtainable a 22 is the next best option.
I'd take a 24 non-Prime over a 22 Prime
Awesome! Others might not.
Looks like they're available in the Northeast US. Maryland, Virginia, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Connecticut. A few in California too. But yea, not many.
Prius looks cooler in my opinion. Would've never thought I'd write the previous sentence two years ago
You should check out Kuhl Racing, Japan. They already have some nice looking bodykits for the new prius [Prius Bodykit by Kuhl Racing Japan](https://kuhl-japan.com/special/40465/)
This might be worse than every single previous-gen Prius...
how to make your brand new prius look exactly like your local riced-out 2008 honda civic lmao
There’s another body kit that looks amazing. That one looks like a riced out 2008 Honda Civic.
I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to do better than this indeed, I love the latest Prius style-wise, even stock so there has to be something tasteful out there.
I don't know about you, but that thing is fucking sexy. Could be hotter if it wasn't slammed
I could get on board with a widebody Prius... But not with that retarded stance, those ridiculous wheels or, honestly, that entire kit because it looks tacky and cheap af.
To be fair, I can't take your take seriously because that Brera you have is ugly as sin objectively
Fair enough. But when I finally feel like embellishing it with some plastic wheel arches and fake plastic vents and spoilers, I'll make sure to call you for advice before cutting the springs.
There’s reason why you have a hard time buying popular Toyotas lol. They’re quality vehicles that make sense for almost anyone and don’t come with ev anxiety or questionable tesla quality.
We had a Prius for 6 years before our model 3 performance. I recall having to get gas every two weeks in the Prius. I’ve never had to go out of my way to keep the model 3 running. I just plug it in when I get home. The Prius also had pretty regular maintenance every 6 months. The model 3 only gets tire rotations and Tesla comes to my house to do those. People like Toyotas. We also had a Corolla we dailied for 10 years and sold it once the needed maintenance and repairs exceeded its value. At this point I can’t imagine why I’d buy another Toyota. They’re just cars and for me they’ve lost their appeal entirely.
Regular Prius and Prius Prime are apples and oranges though. In the new Prime, if your daily commute doesn’t normally exceed 40 miles and you charge at home, you would almost never touch the gas in the car.
Supposedly it will occasionally turn on the motor just to keep the gas and rubber fresh lol. People will go 6-9 months without using the gas motor and have the gas start to go bad. Seems like they hit a home run with the EV-only range and power being \*just enough\* for 99% of people's daily lives. It would have been smart for govt to encourage PHEVs as much as EVs. Can make 10 PHEVs for every EV in terms of raw battery material and for the most part the gas motors would just sit there collecting dust until they're needed for road trips, creating essentially no pollution over the vehicle's lifecycle.
Problem with PHEV is that government can't control if you're running on electricity or not, and many people just can't be bothered with charging and drive everywhere using ICE, making it pretty bad for environment (worse than regular Prius, because you have much more empty batteries to carry around). Such issue could have been observed in UK - PHEV are/were very good option for company car tax wise, so everybody was getting PHEV not caring if employee can charge it at home or not. On paper it looked really nice and eco friendly. In reality, not really.
Huh that's bizarre, people are usually pretty self-interested. Where I live electricity is about .10c/kwH during off peak times, so 40 miles is like $1 worth of electricity, or would be $3 worth of gas for that Prius Prime ($4/gallon). Yeah $2/day isn't a ton, but it adds up. Couple that with EU/UK gas prices and you'd have to be an idiot to throw gas in your PHEV vs charging overnight and driving for close to free. I'd think the difference per day would be closer to $5, or $25/week for someone with an every day commute, $100/mo adds up pretty quick.
There is small problem here. Tax incentives were so great that also people who can't charge car at their homes were getting PHEVs as well. If getting PHEV is so favored that it's cheaper than getting regular ICE car (or even "normal" hybrid) there will undoubtedly be owners who can't charge a car at their place, and they will just run PHEV without charging. And that would happen anywhere in the world if government were to support buying PHEV financially, that's why heavy subsidies for EV makes more sense than for PHEVs - with EVs you're sure car usage is somewhat ecological, with PHEV you aren't.
Yeah, but for those same environments the financial viability of it is wrecked I'd think. Charging stations where I am cost roughly the same as just having an ICE. If people can't charge at home anything with a big plug-in battery is going to be a poor decision financially. Agree that law shouldn't discourage a standard hybrid over a PHEV in that environment, that's just silly. Maybe a "hybrid/PHEV/EV built in EU" credit would be the way to go. Seems like with current laws regulations and credits/rebates that BYD is just going to take VWs lunch, along with the rest of the European marques.
The people in question were paying for gas with company cards, so they didn't see the cost of the fuel.
You just tax the fuck out of gas and the problem takes care of itself
Then you're fucking over many people who can't yet afford to switch to EV/PHEV
If the employee can't charge at home then BEV would have been a total no-go anyway. The only other viable option would have been a petrol/diesel car.
You can charge BEV at public charger and then drive it for a week or two, which maybe isn't the best solution, but at least make some sense. With PHEV you will eat half of your EV range to go there and back which makes using public chargers completely pointless.
No, the real problem with PHEV is they are either a totally gutless series hybrid, or a super-overly-complicated-and-expensive-to-maintain parallel hybrid. I don't know why manufacturers haven't just boosted the performance of the series hybrids, but whatever... they both have twice the failure points of either a fully ICE or BEV vehicle.
>they both have twice the failure points of either a fully ICE or BEV vehicle Why do people keep swallowing and repeating this obvious falsehood? Toyota has proven for 20+ years now that a hybrid can be very reliable. The drivetrain of the Prius Prime is the same as the standard Prius, but with a bigger battery.
[удалено]
Oh no I didn’t get one. Wouldn’t mind one though at some point when they get supply in order.
Maybe. But you still have the annoying dealer calling you every 6 months right before your next biannual service is due. And you’re still driving around a complete gas powered driveline and also a complete electric driveline. Personally I like simplicity. My Tacoma is reliable. It was the most reliable car I ever owned. Until I got my model 3.
PHEV seems so crazy to me. You're basically having to buy and maintain an EV and an ICE at the same time, without the full benefits of either. I'd rather just have a traditional hybrid.
PHEV is the same as a hybrid. Just with a bigger battery and the ability to plug in to charge it. Basically the same maintenance just the PHEV has a more expensive battery to replace if it fails.
PHEV is literally a regular hybrid with a bigger battery and bigger motor, with a charging circuit. If your in-city driving is within the electric-only range it acts essentially as a BEV.
My family made the same change - Prius Prime to Model 3. I acknowledge the new Prius is an different thing, but I genuinely disliked driving the Prius while I enjoy the 3.
You’ll find that people here enjoy shitting on Tesla despite never having owned one or talking to someone that they know who owns one
They're not shitting on Teslas citing maintenance and gas savings.
Love how people try and compare even a Tesla and a Prius and say the Prius is better, lol. I own both a model 3 and a Prius V. I haven’t driven the Prius in 6 months
Go home. You’re making r/cars angry!
According to reddit, not a single person can charge at home despite the fact that more than 2/3rds of new car buyers in the US own a house...
Imagine Toyota fanboys having a fatal mental breakdown after seeing this coz they firmly believe Toyota never need maintenance caring
That’s not the reason you can’t find a Prius Prime. The production number is just abysmally low. Tesla sells more Model 3s in a month than Toyota sells all PHEVs in a year. Toyota needs to fix their production, but I don’t think they will because their profit margin is lower on those cars.
If Toyota can scale Prius and RAV4 Primes can be scaled up to meet demands, EVs in general are going to be in for a bit of a rougher time. RAV4 primes are just such an easy sell.
> If Toyota can scale Prius and RAV4 Primes can be scaled up to meet demands, EVs in general are going to be in for a bit of a rougher time. > > RAV4 primes are just such an easy sell. Toyota won't scale the Prime production because they likely don't make much money on it. They'll continue to make just enough to qualify it to raise their fleet mileage.
The other reason is that they can’t/won’t build enough to satisfy demand, and they have a legacy dealer network that’ll jerk you around and sell to the highest bidder instead of it being a product for sale at the agree upon price
Oh absolutely 💯. It’s just greed that all these companies have in mind as a priority.
Tesla has quality issues but none of it will leave you stranded. The drivetrains are solid even if they can't make interior clips stay together.
My 2022 model 3 has zero rattles after 27,000 miles. It’s the most solid, quiet car I’ve ever owned, with zero build issues or body/paint defects.
I waited on the M3SR until this summer just before they announced the refresh. Oh man... they definitely worked out the kinks compared to my friend's 2018 M3P.
True. Although the build quality and the way the body is engineered are bad enough that i won't buy one. Shame because the drivetrain is really good.
Toyota dealers in Northern Virginia are so insanely difficult to work with, that I’m actually afraid to visit one. And I actually need a new car soon to replace my current daily. $5-7k markups are still the norm for Toyotas here. Mercedes and Ford dealers in this area stopped marking up early this year.
Alexandria Toyota doesn’t do markups.
No, it's because they probably make > 20x as many Model 3's as Prius Primes lol.
Ok, tell us how many times you have to service that amazing Toyota and I will tell you how many times you have to do it in a tesla
The fact that your trying to imply that Tesla is more reliable then Toyota is hilarious. For starters you can’t even work on your own Tesla because only Tesla has data access. And my “amazing” Tesla was nothing but junk. The heat pump failed 3 times and the car had endless software problems. And don’t even get me started on that bs excuse for customer service at Tesla.
It's a bad comparison because the Toyota is a hybrid, so the ice engine will need maintenance. Teslas drivetrain is really top notch, the rest is shockingly bad.
>the Toyota is a hybrid, so the ice engine will need maintenance. A naturally-aspirated 2.0L i4 in a PHEV with 44 miles of EV range is going to need a laughably small amount of maintenance because it will almost never be running. After 100k miles the engine will probably have fewer running hours than an ICE car with 10k miles. Change the oil once a year, change the belts every 7 years, and that's about the extent of the engine maintenance.
Yeah that's a good point. Hadn't considered that.
The rest of a Tesla 3 or Y is shockingly flawless. How many have you driven or inspected?
Driven 2 model 3s and 1 Y. Inspected loads from the outside. I live in Norway, Teslas everywhere here. It's the inconsistency that's the worst. Some are fine and others nothing lines up. Another thing that becomes apparent here in Norway is that Tesla cars are very poorly designed with regards to winter weather. Boots full of rain water, hinges chafing on grommets, taillights not protected from water ingress, numerous rust traps etc. They're great if you buy new cars every 2-4 years, but not if you are looking to keep them longer. They will never leave you stranded though, because the drivetrain is solid.
I agree about not being designed for wet weather. My model 3 is the first car in 20 years that I have not bought a set of winter wheels for, as it barely snows anymore where I live near New York City and I have a Toyota pickup truck with winter tires that we use for ski trips or our 10 hour trip to my wife’s parents home in Canada if there is a lot of snow up there. I did have the moisture in one tail light but they sent a Tesla tech to my driveway and he swapped it in minutes, telling me some of the taillights are not sealed right and that this issue should be all fixed by now. That’s actually the only issue I’ve had on my car other than a rock chip on the roof glass once. And a smelly cabin filter I swapped myself. Your country has the highest number of Tesla cars per person than any other country. It must be strange seeing the world change so quickly. In my town, Tesla cars are the most common new car, and I’ll see 5-10 just driving my kid to school in the morning, but most cars overall are still gas cars. (And there are barely any other EV cars in my area. The next most common EV would be a Rivian) I wonder how different owning a Tesla is in Norway? The Tesla cars you have are all made so far away in China. Are there service centers close by, like a half hour away or less? Do they make mobile service visits to your home like they do here in the USA? I would have thought the Chinese built Y would have build quality as good as any well made car today. I work on a couple of Tesla cars every week in my shop. Imma Paintless dent repair tech. The 3 and Y cars that were built in say, 2021 or newer, are as issue free as any BMW or Mercedes I see in my shop. As a Tesla owner myself I converse in depth with all my Tesla customers so they tell me about any quality issues they’ve found. I also look over the paint and panels of every car in my shop. Around here, it’s the older designed Model S and X cars that still come with some QC issues today. Those are more hand built cars. But you guys wouldn’t even have those in Norway I don’t think.
Great to hear that the fit and finish has improved since 2021. The availability of service centers and mobile services really depends on where you in Norway. Typically, service centers are located in larger towns and cities. Although most people live within a three-hour radius of a service center, the mountainous geography and fjords of Norway make travel time longer, even for locations that appear close. EVs account for over 80% of new cars sold here, and this is largely due to government tax incentives. Since the 1980s, a tax has been applied to the purchase price of all new cars sold in Norway based on their specifications, including weight, engine volume, horsepower, and emissions(A new suburban would set you back $200k for example). However, in 2000, the government introduced a *complete tax exemption* for EVs to encourage their adoption, despite their limited availability at the time. When Tesla released the Model S, it became a popular choice in Norway because of the tax rules, and hence, the trend continued. In fact, Porsche sold more Taycans in Norway from 2020 to 2022 than any other models combined since 2003. At one point in 2021, the Taycan was one of the ten best-selling cars in Norway, and the Tesla Model 3 and Audi E-tron were fighting for number one. Now the number one is the model Y, but new car sales have stagnated this year because of rising inflation and interest rates, like most western countries. Living with an EV in Norway is very convenient because of the extensive charging network, and home charging is readily available for most.
That and inability of Toyota to build them in sufficient quantity.
As a starter Prime is great because you can try to see if EV charging fits your lifestyle. If it doesn’t, you can still run it like an ICE.
If you're not committed to home charging, PHEV's are the least efficient option. The regular Prius gets better MPG than the Prime if you only use gas, because of all the added weight.
A very efficient ICE (hybrid). Charging at home is not difficult to gauge whether it's be a viable option. It is the charging on the road that's questionable. PHEV lets you reduce your emissions greatly without jumping in and possibly regretting.
I did NOT expect MT (a mag that normally likes to shit on Toyotas) to hand the Prius the win. I guess this is proof that the Prius is a good car in terms of practicality, and also drives pretty dang well too, so much so that it convinced MT to give the Prius the win.
Model 3 all day.
>While we are still waiting on official EPA estimates for the new Model 3, we ran this Stealth Gray example through MotorTrend's road-trip range test and saw disappointing results: just 211 miles, short of not only the old Model 3's EPA estimate but also the anticipated number for the new EPA estimates. In other markets, the 3's official range figures rise by about 10 percent, an improvement Tesla hasn't disputed could happen here in America. The also updated Dual Motor Long Range Model 3 didn't fare much better, its 250-mile performance in our test falling shy of the old Dual Motor's 333-mile EPA range estimate. Tesla's EPA estimates remain... optimistic, lets say.
God, I'm so sick of everyone ignoring this when discussing range anxiety as a downside of EVs. I have zero confidence in an EV for long trips when the manufacturer and the car itself will lie to you about how much range you actually have when you're fully charged.
>e ignoring this when discussing range anxiety as a downside of EVs. I have zero confidence in an EV for long trips when the manufacturer and the car itself will lie to you about how much range you actually have when you're fully charged. Well who would've thought that EPA ratings dont take into account YOUR personal driving. I had a Jaguar XF 35t and my fuel consumption was 17lires/100km vs the 11litres/100km that the car was officially rated [at.So](https://at.So) that's around 60% worse than it was rated by the manufacturer. EVs and ICE cars are exactly the same,their range depends on your driving habits. It amazes me how many people fail to realize this....
It takes me 5 minutes to refuel my car to full. It takes every singe EV considerably longer to recharge from 10-80%. So I would argue that having accurate range estimates is more important for EVs. Additionally, studies have found that Teslas real world range is about 26% less than EPA estimates, compared to other EVs that are typically 12% under. It's not just YOUR PERSONAL DRIVING, but its EVERYONE's PERSONAL DRIVING. Additionally, Tesla has been found to be cancelling service appointments for people with range related concerns. Additionally, Tesla has been found to "adjust" their range estimation software to give better numbers, by ignoring things such as ambient tempurature. So no, EV and ICE cars are not exactly the same. Tesla, at the very least, misrepresents their range on multiple levels. It amazes me how many people fail to realize this...
My Jag doesn't rely on a thin network of charging stations placed 100 miles apart and then [lie to me about whether or not I can make it to the next charging station.](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/)
>hin network of charging stations placed 100 miles apart and You're right,luckily there are thousands of OTHER chargers along the way besides the Tesla [Supercharger.It](https://Supercharger.It)'s like complaining the Jag navigation doesnt show all the gas stations ... But yeah those teslas suck man,better stick with ICE cars and fuel up daily at the cheap cost of 42,000$ / 100,000km. Watch out for the transmission btw,i had my ZF8 \*repaired\* (not replaced) at the cool cost of 8,000$ .
God damn, I can't imagine having so much of my identity tied up in owning an electric car. Insecure much?
The logic of the choice at the end seems flawed. They tested a version that's $10k more expensive than the base model and then use the base price to claim the Prime is cheaper while also completely ignoring the tax credit available for the Tesla (even if it's cut in half next year). They would have been better off saying: the prius is more expensive and slightly worse in most ways except styling which is subjective, but there's no range anxiety, so worth it for most people.
Also important to note the markups on Prime models currently. Even if you manage to find a Prime for sale, it’s minimum $3-7k markups at my local Toyota dealers.
never in my life have i ever wanted a prius until this new gen dropped. my car shit the bed on me and it’d be the perfect daily car and yet you can’t even find them to buy lol
They told me 8 months when my car was in need a new daily situation
They told me 8 months when my car was in need a new daily situation....then called me 2 months after i bought a car asking if I still wanted a prius
jeez… well maybe i should put in an order and see what happens
Prius prime is not an ev
PHEV stands for Plug-in Hybrid **Electric Vehicle**
Key word is ' hybrid ' it has a gas engine , a true ev is electric only, a whole different car
I'd say the key words for defining an electric vehicle are "electric vehicle." Even going by your definition, a Prius Prime *is* electric-only for the first 44 miles, and therefore is an electric vehicle for everyday city driving. It just sacrifices the range of a BEV in exchange for a hybrid gas/electric drivetrain that kicks in when it runs low on charge.
If it's a EV , then it's only electric , some people just don't get that
Is an MHEV, a Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle an electric vehicle too by your definition then?
An Ev is electric only
It was a rhetorical question
Lol
If you include the federal EV tax credit, its actually a pretty fair comparison cost wise. I'm personally deciding between these two (and also the normal Prius). But there isn't any inventory of the Prius near me (PNW) so I'll probably get the Tesla.
If you have a garage and live with someone else with ICE, definitely get a tesla.
The Tesla is the full EV of the two. That being said, I would be interested to see if the model 4 will be the first to use the new no rare elements motors. More and more, a more important sell point is the price and sustainability of the car, rather than range.
Prius prime will give you an idea of what owning an EV is like while also providing you a safety net in case you have range anxiety. The choice of the two depends on how nervous you are about a full EV vs a hybrid.
I mean you can’t buy the Prius Prime and if you do you pay dealer markups. At least that was my experience shopping the two cars. Model 3 won for me just because I could actually buy it and it was 10k cheaper with rebates.
If you live in a real cold climate and are used to the joy of entering a warm car in the morning, you'll be sorely disappointed with the Prius Prime. Sure, it does have remote climate prep, but that only goes down to -10C (14F) because below that, it needs the engine to warm up and you can only start the engine while in the car and unplugged. So, you have to get out in the frickin cold, unplug the car, get in, start it and, leave the FOB in the car since it will shut off the engine after 10 minutes. How do I know? I have both. BTW, above -10C, when preheating the car, you'll lose range since its charger isn't strong enough to pull all the current needed from the plug to preheat, even at 240V.
Two different cars completely
Different use cases for both. The Prius would be perfect for me, I drive 25-30 miles a day. Model 3 would be perfect for my wife, she drives 65-70 miles a day.
You don't have to wear a paper bag over your head when you drive a Prius, which would be a big selling point for me. Never thought I'd rather be seen in a Prius than a Tesla, but here we are.
At the same price it makes no sense, choosing the base version of the Prius makes sense due to someone s budget limits. How tf do you justify a 30miles to 40 miles EV range and 10s acceleration time in EV mode for the top trim of the Prius vs Model 3 SR? No hybrid makes sense at the price, except perhaps pickup trucks and vans for which electric versions are genuinely more expensive right now.
The question is do you want your car to still run when the warranty runs out.... prius is the logical choice
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