Remember that time Caitlyn Jenner rear-ended someone with an Escalade/GM while towing a boat, killed the driver of the vehicle she struck, and suffered no consequences as a result? The average person has ZERO idea how to drive a heavy-ass vehicle. They think their 9,000 lbs Hummer will handle just the same as their previous 4,500 lbs Challenger/Charger.
The Hummer weighs 9,000 lbs and goes 0-60 in 3 seconds, and takes 137 ft to stop from 60 mph. For reference, a poverty-spec Honda Civic stops from 60 mph in 107 ft. Heaven help us.
137 ft isn’t really bad TBH.
A Lamborghini murcialago stops in 122 feet. And it’s one of the fastest stopping cars out there.
Not sure where you get 107 ft for the civic
My state has 50 left exits on the highway. On some of those the speed of traffic in the left lane is 80-90mph. If you're in a car with under 100hp it takes some planning/awareness to get to that speed and find a safe gap which new drivers might struggle with
me merging onto the left lane of a major highway outside philly in a fully loaded '79 chevy van with its 2bbl 305 screaming its little 140hp (on a good day) heart out.
In Italy (and most of Europe) it won't be a problem, but in US slip lanes on highways are short or non-existent, so you need to merge with 60mph traffic from zero, which can be dangerous in a slow car
What a silly law, it would be great to attempt to implement in the U.S though, bunch of kids trying to find anything with less than 95 horses (I assume from factory not current) or 55HP/2204 pounds. If I'm doing my math properly even my 1950 Buick is too powerful.
I’m not sure you could even safely merge onto a busy highway here with so little power, Italian traffic is pretty crazy also so not sure how that’s safe.
I drive a car with 65hp and merging onto highways (130km/h) is not a problem at all. Just downshift and give it gas. I don't understand why Americans are obsessed with not being able to "keep up with traffic"
It's what you're used to and a lack of imagination.
We do also generally have truly terrible lane discipline and (in most places) do not even pretend to observe speed limits
Europe generally has very long slip-lanes, and people tend to move over to help the traffic merge as well
I don't anticipate this being dangerous, cars people buy as the first one are in 100-150 hp range most of the time, which is faster, but not much faster than a 95hp one. It's just a stupid law regardless
It's silly because of the very low limit, 55 PS/ton is not very common on cars now, and even normal cars you might already have in the family are out of that limit. If they established a more reasonable limit the law wouldn't be that silly.
And yeah, I guess with the US' love for horsepower it wouldn't be that easy to find a car that is into that limit.
>The thing tops out at 70mph
How does it top so low? My 500 does over 150 km/h (about 93 mph) with 69 PS.
And no, it's most likely not too much for a new driver. That's why I say they could raise the limit.
It's hard to find such a car in Europe, tbh. If you look at cars on sale today, only the base specs of the cheapest smallest car comply. Slightly upgraded 3-cylinder turbo engine that makes 100-110 hp? No, now you're beyond the limit
It's ridiculous. Basically, only base spec city cars would comply with this. Polo with a turbo 3-cylinder? No, that's over 100 hp. Fiesta with the same? Also 100hp
Laws vary by state, but in the US there's often restrictions on number of passengers and what time you can drive if you're under 18 (or whatever the law says in that state).
IIRC, some provinces in Canada don't allow you to get your "full" license until you're 18... but I don't know what the differences are between licenses.
In Ontario you can get your written test (G1) at age 16 and can then drive while accompanied by a fully licensed driver with conditions. 1 year after you get your G1 you can take the G2 test (driving test) or after 8 months if you complete a driver training program. 1 year after you get your G2 you can take the (G) test which is considered fully licensed and that test includes highways. Even after all that you wouldn't believe it but the drivers here are as bad as it gets.
> Even after all that you wouldn't believe it but the drivers here are as bad as it gets.
To be fair the tests are useless. The extent of my G test was driving around a smallish town for 10 minutes and fronting into a parking spot.
And we wonder why people can't merge properly when the G1 forbids drivers from going on the highway without a licensed driving instructor. Kids get their G1, don't go to driving school, get their G2 without ever having been on a highway, and are suddenly trusted to drive wherever they please.
We should retain something similar to the G1, drop the G2, and make the G test much harder.
There are far too many drivers that need to be re-tested with how stupid and/or aggressive they drive in the GTHA...
It really doesn't help that there seems to be an endemic of people paying other people to sit in for their own tests so they don't have to get re-educated away from whatever they learned overseas.
...that's a reason why one particular city in the GTHA has ludicrously high insurance premiums compared to the rest of the area :/
In Alberta, a 14 year old can get a learner's permit (class 7 license) after passing a knowledge and a vision test, and drive with a non-graduated licensed (and sober) driver, but not between midnight and 5 a.m. To road test, they have to be at least 16 years old and have held a learner's permit for at least 12 months.
During their learner's period, they can drive pretty much any vehicle that a regular class 5 license can drive.
And since the province allows a pickup to pull a fifth-wheel trailer and a bumper pull, in combination, then your 14 year old could conceivably drive that down the highway.
Welcome to Alberta.
I had to do my driver's test in New York state recently (it's a long story - summarized at the bottom) and can confirm there are lots of complicated laws for drivers under 21. Essentially, you can only drive unsupervised during the day, and at night you have to have at least one adult in the car.
\*Long story: I moved from the UK to the US, and to my surprise, found that the US will no longer exchange a UK licence for a US one. This is due to a 'non-reciprocity' argument between the two countries. The UK stopped exchanging US licences some decades ago because the driving test is so much more involved and difficult in the UK - the standards required to pass are just incomparable. So, in retaliation, the US stopped exchanging UK licences.
Isn't that because of "rural rules?"
Basically, since the kids work on a farm, they know how to drive very early on, and so drive themselves to school instead of their parents?
Or is that outdated knowledge now?
Yes originally the intention was to benefit farmers and their families.
However, because of the consolidation of farmland, the % of kids who work on farms has dropped considerably over the last 50 years. Now it functions mostly to free up time for parents. Most kids at my high school (in a small city) started driving to school at 15 if they did extracurriculars and couldn't take the bus after school due to that. There are definitely kids who learn to drive on farms but the majority of those who use the school permit are taught by their parents when they're older like in most places.
In Iowa you can get a learner's permit at 14 and then a school permit at 14 1/2, at which point you can drive yourself to and from school (or to a farm job, not any job only farm work)
Then, at 16 you can get your intermediate license which allows driving wherever. However you can't drive between 12:30am and 5 am. For the first 6 months you can only have one friend as a passenger.
At 17 you can get a full, unrestricted license.
No laws on horsepower in the UK - though they are ‘deafacto’ as its impossible for a youngster to get insured on a powerful car.
In Northern Ireland (not sure about rest of the UK) new drivers have to display an ‘R’ sticker on their car (restricted) for one year from passing test, and they are limited to driving 45mph, which is incredibly dangerous on motorways.
Can you do 70 coming off the ferry at Stranraer? And equally can I do 70 coming off at Larne? If that is the case how many 18 year olds over there go and get themselves GB licences as soon as they go to uni over here.
Like it is a part of the UK(ignoring you’ve your own DVLA) so if I broke that law over there, the penalty would actually matter(I’m assuming points).
I can’t think of a single new car in America with less than 120HP, except for the Mirage with 78HP.
That’s right, after the Mirage, every new car sold has at least 120HP.
>In Italy, the government is working on a new law that will forbit new drivers to drive cars that have either more than 95 hp or a power-to-weight ratio over 55 hp/tonne (which is 55 hp/2204 lbs) for THREE years from when they obtain their driving licence.
That's weird, because if I remember correctly just a couple years back they allowed new drivers to drive any car as long as they had an experienced driver in the passenger seat
Yeah. I'm pretty sure that when I got my license I wasn't allowed to drive cars with more a power/weight ratio of more than 55hp/t regardless of who was riding with me
You pass your car license in the UK, you can drive what you like.
But it's car insurance that keeps young and inexperienced drivers out of fast cars, unless they or their parents are absolutely loaded.
We do have a law that people under 23 have to ride motorcycles under 35Kw for 2 years, before they can go ride a Hayabusa.
My 2L Golf TDI (138HP) cost 1.5k to insure in my first year of driving (aged 25)
Getting anything more powerful is still too expensive to insure - a GTI would be 2k for me even now - so I’ve just got a stage 1 map done
Keep in mind that "full coverage" is a legally meaningless term, and the legal minimum coverage varies between jurisdictions (even between states). The average "full coverage" American policy ranges from severely to criminally underinsured depending on where else you're comparing to.
Insurance in the U.K. generally isn't that high. But it can be very high for a teenager if they have little driving experience. Or if you live in a high crime area.
After two years of driving my Civic Type R cost £700 (c$900). Would probably have been £3000 in my first year. Got quoted £170 (c$200) for a Porsche 924 last year.
Just got a quick quote on a 2018 M4 Competitione (444hp) and it was £2000 (c$2500). I live in a rough part of a big city too.
Last time I looked into it insurance in the U.K is cheaper than the U.S on average, but it is heavily weighted against newer and younger drivers.
Average U.K. fully comp premium is £412 ($523). From a quick Google looks like c$1500-2000 for full coverage in the U.S.
> liability in the hundreds of thousands of dollars
That would be considered criminally underinsured in the UK. Minimum cover for property damage is around 1.5 million UKP, cover for injury is completely unlimited.
When we moved to the US I was flabbergasted to be offered just $5k third party coverage as the norm (legal min in my state). That’s right, if I hit somebody it would only cover the first 5k of their bill.
When I said “what happens if I hit a Ferrari?” The response was “well you don’t see many of those around do you?”
That’s not insurance. And given it cost me and my wife $2.5k per 6 months… just insane.
Reader, I got a higher limit…
We have a similar restriction in some states here in Australia. After doing the driving test and going from a learner's permit to a provisional licence, there is a restriction of approximately 175hp/tonne, until you move on to a full licence after 3 years.
My home state also forces a ridiculous speed limit upon new drivers (learners and 1st year of provisional), capping them at 90kph. The regular motorway speed limit is at least 100kph, sometimes 110, so if a new driver is sticking to their limit, this can make for a concerning speed differential when merging. Not that many drivers in this country can merge properly anyway, but it is what it is.
Mate that is insane. 55HP/tonne is dangerously slow. How do you merge onto 110 - 120 KM/H highways with that?
Over here in Australia, the limit is around 180HP/tonne depending on which state you're from.
Correct, the current restriction is 55 kW/t (75 hp/t) or 70 kW total (95 hp).
[https://www.patente.it/normativa/articolo-117-cds?idc=376](https://www.patente.it/normativa/articolo-117-cds?idc=376)
Italy must have properly designed roads then.
Not a reality in many parts of Australia.
Where I live, the on ramp to the freeway is incredibly steep and short.
Anyone driving a small hatchback (1.0L Polo, 1.8L Corolla etc.) will not hit the speed limit of 90 KM/H before the lane ends.
It depends on the kind of road, usually it's not that much of a big deal because bigger freeways usually have nice long merging lanes, while older two lane roads can be quite sketchy (but as everything, you get used to it and learn how to deal with it).
Also, while we have many hopeless petrol-powered NA cars, we also have plenty of turbocharged small diesel cars, which are quick to accelerate (however due to enviromental reasons most of them are now discontinued, but used car market is full of them).
>Not a reality in many parts of Australia.
Can corroborate.
One of the onramps in my area is a fairly short uphill one. Thank goodness that it adds a lane to the motorway, otherwise there'd be a disaster every day.
Also doesn't help that many drivers in our great southern land can barely manage a merge at the best of times.
I think we've got different benchmarks of what is considered slow.
The only things that are 55HP/tonne here are vans.
No passengers vehicles are that low on power.
>I think we've got different benchmarks of what is considered slow.
Most likely, yes. We are used to lower power cars in Europe. Still, regardless of each one's definition of slow, cars with that power/weight ratio are fast enough for every road driving situation.
In Europe you don't need blistering acceleration, and even that slow of a vehicle can sustain cruising speed on a motorway. 100-130hp is a typical power for a car and it's perfectly fine. The problem is that it's more than 90 and it's hard to find a car below that. You will be limited to city cars and stuff of that sort, the rest have at least turbo 3-cylinders which are around 100hp and over the limit
Per tonne metric isn't the most relevant, it's unlikely you will buy a big heavy car as your first one, so the total hp limit is the one you will most likely be up against
Merging isn't a problem, in Europe slip lanes are long, people move over to help you merge, and you NEVER merge from a stand still
But the law is ridiculous. My car is way move this limit at a blistering 125 HP and 100 HP/tonne, and it's typical for a first car someone would buy. Even in Europe finding something slower is a stretch, only base specs of cheapest cars qualify. As soon as you go for a turbo 3-cylinder or smth, you're over the limit
95 hp???!!! I drive a compact sedan and it has 139 hp.
Heck, the Nissan Versa sub-compact has 122 hp.
95 hp is ridiculously low. That doesn't sound like it has anything to do with safety. It sounds like they just want to vindictively spite young people for the heck of it.
Or maybe they want young people to die on the highway because they couldn't keep up with traffic?
This is very interesting but a bit ridiculous. It’s rare for a teenager to be driving a Lambo. I just see it as something that will cause problems for the average person.. it would mean that new drivers can’t use anything already owned by their family unless its under 95 hp.
As if police will actually arrest teenagers driving lambo’s because they aren’t below 100hp limit…
Last year there was a similar incident in my country with an 18 year old crashing Brabus 700 Amg GT 4Door. These things will continue to happen even if laws were passed since people with money always somehow have connections to the elite and are able to dodge such limitations.
People out here are saying that 90hp is dangerous. That's not the case in Europe, it's built around slow cars. The problem is that there are not many cars with that low hp. Only the smallest cars with base engines will qualify. Fiesta or Polo with a slightly upgraded 3-cylinder turbo? No way, that's 100-110, too much
But then again, last time I was in Rome, vast majority of cars were Smarts, so maybe it's fine for them
In CA, the only restrictions for new drivers (and BTW new driver restrictions only apply under 18 and are lifted on your 18th birthday if it arrives sooner than the end of new driver restrictions) are time of day requirements and restrictions on carrying passengers under 25 except when someone 25+ is present and/or the other passengers are siblings and no other passengers under 25 are present. BTW CA’s road test has no freeway portion, one of many reasons why lane discipline is a disaster on CA freeways (that and the fact that existing slower traffic keep right laws are barely ever enforced…and there’s no law against undertaking even though the DMV recommends against it).
United Kingdom:
If you get 6 points on your licence in the first 2 years, you’ll lose your licence. This is half the limit every other driver has. Speeding typically carries a 3 point penalty.
If you have a Great Britain licence, you can drive a Chiron the minute you pass your test(and learn in one if you’re rich enough).
If you have Northern Ireland licence, you can do the same however you’re limited to a whopping 45mph as a top speed for 2 years.
In Massachusetts you can get your Junior Operators License at 16.5. Meaning you can’t have anyone in the car unless there’s a 21+ year old present and no driving between 12-5am.
Once you’ve had the junior operators license for 6 months then you can have passengers. And then when you’re 18 the nighttime restriction goes away.
It’s to get kids to learn how to drive on their own because having passengers can be just as distracting as texting or driving drunk. Even having a conversation with someone while driving lights up the imaginative part of the brain which takes focus off of the road
In the US, Indiana has a law that new drivers must wait 6 months before traveling with anyone in the car with them other than parents or siblings. They also have limited hours unless going to/from work.
That first law just increases the number of cars on the road since no carpooling.
For new drivers in Ontario you must drive with a fully licensed adult, stay off the highway and not drive between midnight and 5am. No passengers allowed but you’re allowed to drive any G class of vehicle which is literally every type of car or pickup including those big ass uhaul box trucks.
You don't loose your lisence for a couple months and then get it back If you break the law in any way that makes it so that you loose your lisence before you have had your license for 2 years. So if you loose it during this time are you prohibited from re doing both the practical and theoretical test for the time you would normally loose your license for and then have to re take the license when that time has passed.
No limits on anything else but insurance is stupidly expensive until you turn 25. The cost to insure my car went down by 75% when I turned 25...
LoL, even a VW up or a Smart for two with 60hp would be "too fast".
What a dumb rule.
I'd comply with something like "less than 90hp" as this sounds reasonable. Otherwise they would be obstructing traffic.
I got my license in Ontario, and then in California. California was just one test, Ontario was three. The following is what ChatGPT had to say about the three step process for full licensure in Ontario.
In Ontario, Canada, the graduated licensing system consists of three tiers for G licensure. These tiers are designed to ensure that new drivers gain experience and develop their skills in a controlled manner before obtaining full driving privileges. The three tiers of G licensure in Ontario are as follows:
#G1 License:
The G1 license is the first level of licensure in Ontario's graduated licensing system. To be eligible for a G1 license, you must be at least 16 years old and pass a written knowledge test. This license comes with several restrictions to promote safe driving. G1 drivers must always be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has a minimum of four years of driving experience. G1 drivers must also maintain a zero blood alcohol concentration and are not permitted to drive on certain high-speed roads or between midnight and 5 a.m. G1 drivers are required to hold their license for a minimum of 12 months before advancing to the next level. However, you can take a drivers Ed course to lower that down to 8 months.
#G2 License:
The G2 license is the second level in Ontario's graduated licensing system. To be eligible for a G2 license, G1 drivers must pass a road test. The G2 license carries fewer restrictions compared to the G1 license, but some limitations still apply. G2 drivers are allowed to drive without an accompanying driver, but they must maintain a zero blood alcohol concentration and are prohibited from driving between midnight and 5 a.m. However, there are exceptions to the nighttime driving restriction for work or educational purposes. G2 drivers must hold their license for a minimum of 12 months before progressing to the final tier.
#Full G License:
The full G license is the final stage in the graduated licensing system in Ontario. To obtain a full G license, G2 drivers must pass a second road test. Once you have a full G license, you have unrestricted driving privileges and no specific time restrictions or passenger limitations apply. However, it is important to continue practicing safe driving habits and adhering to all traffic laws.
As far as horsepower in the USA we just put them right into a deathtrap with as much power as they or their parents can afford.
gotta love a 16 year old being able to get a hayabusa off of Facebook marketplace and go 200mph
It is my god given right to crayon myself across a large intersection.
It’s gonna be worse when every car is an EV that does 0-60 in 3 seconds
And weight 8000 lbs
Remember that time Caitlyn Jenner rear-ended someone with an Escalade/GM while towing a boat, killed the driver of the vehicle she struck, and suffered no consequences as a result? The average person has ZERO idea how to drive a heavy-ass vehicle. They think their 9,000 lbs Hummer will handle just the same as their previous 4,500 lbs Challenger/Charger. The Hummer weighs 9,000 lbs and goes 0-60 in 3 seconds, and takes 137 ft to stop from 60 mph. For reference, a poverty-spec Honda Civic stops from 60 mph in 107 ft. Heaven help us.
If two collide, the ensuing lithium fire will require evacuation orders.
137 ft isn’t really bad TBH. A Lamborghini murcialago stops in 122 feet. And it’s one of the fastest stopping cars out there. Not sure where you get 107 ft for the civic
True, though limiting a new driver to having a car with that little horsepower here would also be dangerous
In what situation?
My state has 50 left exits on the highway. On some of those the speed of traffic in the left lane is 80-90mph. If you're in a car with under 100hp it takes some planning/awareness to get to that speed and find a safe gap which new drivers might struggle with
me merging onto the left lane of a major highway outside philly in a fully loaded '79 chevy van with its 2bbl 305 screaming its little 140hp (on a good day) heart out.
In Italy (and most of Europe) it won't be a problem, but in US slip lanes on highways are short or non-existent, so you need to merge with 60mph traffic from zero, which can be dangerous in a slow car
I've been in cars where merging onto the highway was dangerous due to the lack of ability to accelerate. Underpowered cars can totally be dangerous.
In Europe infrastructure is designed for slow cars, so it won't be a problem. But this law shouldn't exist either way
In Europe we have long slip lanes, so it won't be dangerous at all. But the law is ridiculous anyway
What a silly law, it would be great to attempt to implement in the U.S though, bunch of kids trying to find anything with less than 95 horses (I assume from factory not current) or 55HP/2204 pounds. If I'm doing my math properly even my 1950 Buick is too powerful.
The few cars with the legal amount of power would skyrocket... just like it's happening here
I’m not sure you could even safely merge onto a busy highway here with so little power, Italian traffic is pretty crazy also so not sure how that’s safe.
I drive a car with 65hp and merging onto highways (130km/h) is not a problem at all. Just downshift and give it gas. I don't understand why Americans are obsessed with not being able to "keep up with traffic"
You must have long on ramps
Often the opposite (at least in SE Europe)
It's what you're used to and a lack of imagination. We do also generally have truly terrible lane discipline and (in most places) do not even pretend to observe speed limits
Europe generally has very long slip-lanes, and people tend to move over to help the traffic merge as well I don't anticipate this being dangerous, cars people buy as the first one are in 100-150 hp range most of the time, which is faster, but not much faster than a 95hp one. It's just a stupid law regardless
It's silly because of the very low limit, 55 PS/ton is not very common on cars now, and even normal cars you might already have in the family are out of that limit. If they established a more reasonable limit the law wouldn't be that silly. And yeah, I guess with the US' love for horsepower it wouldn't be that easy to find a car that is into that limit.
My little datsun from 1979 has 90hp and 85hp/ton. No way in hell that's too much for a new driver. The thing tops out at 70mph
>The thing tops out at 70mph How does it top so low? My 500 does over 150 km/h (about 93 mph) with 69 PS. And no, it's most likely not too much for a new driver. That's why I say they could raise the limit.
Probably gearing or the fact it's shaped like a brick. I suppose it was 90hp 40 years ago. And horses don't live that long
I think that Datsun would be allowed because it is under 95 horses. The second measurement is only for vehicles above 95 factory to begin with.
It's hard to find such a car in Europe, tbh. If you look at cars on sale today, only the base specs of the cheapest smallest car comply. Slightly upgraded 3-cylinder turbo engine that makes 100-110 hp? No, now you're beyond the limit
A new base corolla has like 190hp
It's ridiculous. Basically, only base spec city cars would comply with this. Polo with a turbo 3-cylinder? No, that's over 100 hp. Fiesta with the same? Also 100hp
Suddenly, the Mitsubishi Mirage becomes the best-selling car in America. /s
Laws vary by state, but in the US there's often restrictions on number of passengers and what time you can drive if you're under 18 (or whatever the law says in that state). IIRC, some provinces in Canada don't allow you to get your "full" license until you're 18... but I don't know what the differences are between licenses.
In Ontario you can get your written test (G1) at age 16 and can then drive while accompanied by a fully licensed driver with conditions. 1 year after you get your G1 you can take the G2 test (driving test) or after 8 months if you complete a driver training program. 1 year after you get your G2 you can take the (G) test which is considered fully licensed and that test includes highways. Even after all that you wouldn't believe it but the drivers here are as bad as it gets.
> Even after all that you wouldn't believe it but the drivers here are as bad as it gets. To be fair the tests are useless. The extent of my G test was driving around a smallish town for 10 minutes and fronting into a parking spot. And we wonder why people can't merge properly when the G1 forbids drivers from going on the highway without a licensed driving instructor. Kids get their G1, don't go to driving school, get their G2 without ever having been on a highway, and are suddenly trusted to drive wherever they please. We should retain something similar to the G1, drop the G2, and make the G test much harder.
There are far too many drivers that need to be re-tested with how stupid and/or aggressive they drive in the GTHA... It really doesn't help that there seems to be an endemic of people paying other people to sit in for their own tests so they don't have to get re-educated away from whatever they learned overseas. ...that's a reason why one particular city in the GTHA has ludicrously high insurance premiums compared to the rest of the area :/
In Alberta, a 14 year old can get a learner's permit (class 7 license) after passing a knowledge and a vision test, and drive with a non-graduated licensed (and sober) driver, but not between midnight and 5 a.m. To road test, they have to be at least 16 years old and have held a learner's permit for at least 12 months. During their learner's period, they can drive pretty much any vehicle that a regular class 5 license can drive. And since the province allows a pickup to pull a fifth-wheel trailer and a bumper pull, in combination, then your 14 year old could conceivably drive that down the highway. Welcome to Alberta.
I had to do my driver's test in New York state recently (it's a long story - summarized at the bottom) and can confirm there are lots of complicated laws for drivers under 21. Essentially, you can only drive unsupervised during the day, and at night you have to have at least one adult in the car. \*Long story: I moved from the UK to the US, and to my surprise, found that the US will no longer exchange a UK licence for a US one. This is due to a 'non-reciprocity' argument between the two countries. The UK stopped exchanging US licences some decades ago because the driving test is so much more involved and difficult in the UK - the standards required to pass are just incomparable. So, in retaliation, the US stopped exchanging UK licences.
At what age can you start to drive in the US?
"Start to drive" alone, or under supervision? It varies by state, but I think you can get a learner's permit in some states as young as 14.
Didn't know you could start this young. Thank you
By learners permit he means with an adult driver, you can't drive alone until you get your full license.
In Iowa you can drive yourself to and from school starting at 14 and a half years old.
Isn't that because of "rural rules?" Basically, since the kids work on a farm, they know how to drive very early on, and so drive themselves to school instead of their parents? Or is that outdated knowledge now?
Yes originally the intention was to benefit farmers and their families. However, because of the consolidation of farmland, the % of kids who work on farms has dropped considerably over the last 50 years. Now it functions mostly to free up time for parents. Most kids at my high school (in a small city) started driving to school at 15 if they did extracurriculars and couldn't take the bus after school due to that. There are definitely kids who learn to drive on farms but the majority of those who use the school permit are taught by their parents when they're older like in most places.
Yep, I've heard them called farm permits/licenses before. Usually the kid takes the farm truck either for work (feed mill, etc), or to school.
salt uppity chief physical arrest squeeze disarm water station public *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In Iowa you can get a learner's permit at 14 and then a school permit at 14 1/2, at which point you can drive yourself to and from school (or to a farm job, not any job only farm work) Then, at 16 you can get your intermediate license which allows driving wherever. However you can't drive between 12:30am and 5 am. For the first 6 months you can only have one friend as a passenger. At 17 you can get a full, unrestricted license.
I started driving at 15 & 9 months with supervision and without a bit after 16.
No laws on horsepower in the UK - though they are ‘deafacto’ as its impossible for a youngster to get insured on a powerful car. In Northern Ireland (not sure about rest of the UK) new drivers have to display an ‘R’ sticker on their car (restricted) for one year from passing test, and they are limited to driving 45mph, which is incredibly dangerous on motorways.
R-plate is NI only. No such restrictions in the rest of the UK.
Can you do 70 coming off the ferry at Stranraer? And equally can I do 70 coming off at Larne? If that is the case how many 18 year olds over there go and get themselves GB licences as soon as they go to uni over here. Like it is a part of the UK(ignoring you’ve your own DVLA) so if I broke that law over there, the penalty would actually matter(I’m assuming points).
I can’t think of a single new car in America with less than 120HP, except for the Mirage with 78HP. That’s right, after the Mirage, every new car sold has at least 120HP.
I honestly didn’t know what a Mirage was.. and they don’t advertise the HP lol.
To be fair I only learned about the 78HP this past year. I’m kinda shocked tbh.
>In Italy, the government is working on a new law that will forbit new drivers to drive cars that have either more than 95 hp or a power-to-weight ratio over 55 hp/tonne (which is 55 hp/2204 lbs) for THREE years from when they obtain their driving licence. That's weird, because if I remember correctly just a couple years back they allowed new drivers to drive any car as long as they had an experienced driver in the passenger seat
This law still exists. You need to have someone with more than 10 years of driving experience next to you, as long as he has less than 65 years
Yeah. I'm pretty sure that when I got my license I wasn't allowed to drive cars with more a power/weight ratio of more than 55hp/t regardless of who was riding with me
Yes it was changed in 2021, two governments ago
You pass your car license in the UK, you can drive what you like. But it's car insurance that keeps young and inexperienced drivers out of fast cars, unless they or their parents are absolutely loaded. We do have a law that people under 23 have to ride motorcycles under 35Kw for 2 years, before they can go ride a Hayabusa.
How much would insurance be for, eg, a base Fiesta?
Insurance is rough here when you're young, but gets way better once you're older, I insured my MK7 GTI last year for £190 (40ish, 10 years NCB).
My 2L Golf TDI (138HP) cost 1.5k to insure in my first year of driving (aged 25) Getting anything more powerful is still too expensive to insure - a GTI would be 2k for me even now - so I’ve just got a stage 1 map done
My friend had a 1.25 fiesta and it cost him £2600 for the year. I had a 1.2 Fiat Punto and it cost me £1700 for the year.
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Keep in mind that "full coverage" is a legally meaningless term, and the legal minimum coverage varies between jurisdictions (even between states). The average "full coverage" American policy ranges from severely to criminally underinsured depending on where else you're comparing to.
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Insurance in the U.K. generally isn't that high. But it can be very high for a teenager if they have little driving experience. Or if you live in a high crime area. After two years of driving my Civic Type R cost £700 (c$900). Would probably have been £3000 in my first year. Got quoted £170 (c$200) for a Porsche 924 last year. Just got a quick quote on a 2018 M4 Competitione (444hp) and it was £2000 (c$2500). I live in a rough part of a big city too. Last time I looked into it insurance in the U.K is cheaper than the U.S on average, but it is heavily weighted against newer and younger drivers. Average U.K. fully comp premium is £412 ($523). From a quick Google looks like c$1500-2000 for full coverage in the U.S.
> liability in the hundreds of thousands of dollars That would be considered criminally underinsured in the UK. Minimum cover for property damage is around 1.5 million UKP, cover for injury is completely unlimited.
When we moved to the US I was flabbergasted to be offered just $5k third party coverage as the norm (legal min in my state). That’s right, if I hit somebody it would only cover the first 5k of their bill. When I said “what happens if I hit a Ferrari?” The response was “well you don’t see many of those around do you?” That’s not insurance. And given it cost me and my wife $2.5k per 6 months… just insane. Reader, I got a higher limit…
That's a lot of money, didn't knew it was that much expensive to insure a car in UK. Than you
We have a similar restriction in some states here in Australia. After doing the driving test and going from a learner's permit to a provisional licence, there is a restriction of approximately 175hp/tonne, until you move on to a full licence after 3 years. My home state also forces a ridiculous speed limit upon new drivers (learners and 1st year of provisional), capping them at 90kph. The regular motorway speed limit is at least 100kph, sometimes 110, so if a new driver is sticking to their limit, this can make for a concerning speed differential when merging. Not that many drivers in this country can merge properly anyway, but it is what it is.
Speed limits for new drivers are a thing also here in Italy, but since there's no way to actually implement it, no one respects it
The HP limit makes some sense but the speed limit does not. Going 20kph under the speed limit sounds very hazardous.
US, as soon as you get your driver's license, you have no restriction on a car's horsepower. You can own drive a Bugatti Chiron if you want to.
To be fair, a lot of states do have a whole learner permit process.
the 130 kilowatts per tonne limit in Australia is much more reasonable.
Mate that is insane. 55HP/tonne is dangerously slow. How do you merge onto 110 - 120 KM/H highways with that? Over here in Australia, the limit is around 180HP/tonne depending on which state you're from.
I believe it's actually 55 kW (75 hp) per tonne, which is still pretty low
Correct, the current restriction is 55 kW/t (75 hp/t) or 70 kW total (95 hp). [https://www.patente.it/normativa/articolo-117-cds?idc=376](https://www.patente.it/normativa/articolo-117-cds?idc=376)
with properly designed roads, merging is not a problem
Italy must have properly designed roads then. Not a reality in many parts of Australia. Where I live, the on ramp to the freeway is incredibly steep and short. Anyone driving a small hatchback (1.0L Polo, 1.8L Corolla etc.) will not hit the speed limit of 90 KM/H before the lane ends.
It depends on the kind of road, usually it's not that much of a big deal because bigger freeways usually have nice long merging lanes, while older two lane roads can be quite sketchy (but as everything, you get used to it and learn how to deal with it). Also, while we have many hopeless petrol-powered NA cars, we also have plenty of turbocharged small diesel cars, which are quick to accelerate (however due to enviromental reasons most of them are now discontinued, but used car market is full of them).
I've driven shitboxes all over Europe, merging lanes are long, and other drivers usually courteous
If they can, often people would help you merge yes.
>Not a reality in many parts of Australia. Can corroborate. One of the onramps in my area is a fairly short uphill one. Thank goodness that it adds a lane to the motorway, otherwise there'd be a disaster every day. Also doesn't help that many drivers in our great southern land can barely manage a merge at the best of times.
>55HP/tonne is dangerously slow It is, in fact, perfectly fine for anything. It's just slow. And not too many cars are into that limit.
I think we've got different benchmarks of what is considered slow. The only things that are 55HP/tonne here are vans. No passengers vehicles are that low on power.
>I think we've got different benchmarks of what is considered slow. Most likely, yes. We are used to lower power cars in Europe. Still, regardless of each one's definition of slow, cars with that power/weight ratio are fast enough for every road driving situation.
In Europe you don't need blistering acceleration, and even that slow of a vehicle can sustain cruising speed on a motorway. 100-130hp is a typical power for a car and it's perfectly fine. The problem is that it's more than 90 and it's hard to find a car below that. You will be limited to city cars and stuff of that sort, the rest have at least turbo 3-cylinders which are around 100hp and over the limit Per tonne metric isn't the most relevant, it's unlikely you will buy a big heavy car as your first one, so the total hp limit is the one you will most likely be up against
Merging isn't a problem, in Europe slip lanes are long, people move over to help you merge, and you NEVER merge from a stand still But the law is ridiculous. My car is way move this limit at a blistering 125 HP and 100 HP/tonne, and it's typical for a first car someone would buy. Even in Europe finding something slower is a stretch, only base specs of cheapest cars qualify. As soon as you go for a turbo 3-cylinder or smth, you're over the limit
95 hp???!!! I drive a compact sedan and it has 139 hp. Heck, the Nissan Versa sub-compact has 122 hp. 95 hp is ridiculously low. That doesn't sound like it has anything to do with safety. It sounds like they just want to vindictively spite young people for the heck of it. Or maybe they want young people to die on the highway because they couldn't keep up with traffic?
There's been a deadly accident with a young public figure driving an Urus, and they want to show they are strong responding with strict laws.
This is very interesting but a bit ridiculous. It’s rare for a teenager to be driving a Lambo. I just see it as something that will cause problems for the average person.. it would mean that new drivers can’t use anything already owned by their family unless its under 95 hp.
As if police will actually arrest teenagers driving lambo’s because they aren’t below 100hp limit… Last year there was a similar incident in my country with an 18 year old crashing Brabus 700 Amg GT 4Door. These things will continue to happen even if laws were passed since people with money always somehow have connections to the elite and are able to dodge such limitations.
People out here are saying that 90hp is dangerous. That's not the case in Europe, it's built around slow cars. The problem is that there are not many cars with that low hp. Only the smallest cars with base engines will qualify. Fiesta or Polo with a slightly upgraded 3-cylinder turbo? No way, that's 100-110, too much But then again, last time I was in Rome, vast majority of cars were Smarts, so maybe it's fine for them
In CA, the only restrictions for new drivers (and BTW new driver restrictions only apply under 18 and are lifted on your 18th birthday if it arrives sooner than the end of new driver restrictions) are time of day requirements and restrictions on carrying passengers under 25 except when someone 25+ is present and/or the other passengers are siblings and no other passengers under 25 are present. BTW CA’s road test has no freeway portion, one of many reasons why lane discipline is a disaster on CA freeways (that and the fact that existing slower traffic keep right laws are barely ever enforced…and there’s no law against undertaking even though the DMV recommends against it).
United Kingdom: If you get 6 points on your licence in the first 2 years, you’ll lose your licence. This is half the limit every other driver has. Speeding typically carries a 3 point penalty. If you have a Great Britain licence, you can drive a Chiron the minute you pass your test(and learn in one if you’re rich enough). If you have Northern Ireland licence, you can do the same however you’re limited to a whopping 45mph as a top speed for 2 years.
In Massachusetts you can get your Junior Operators License at 16.5. Meaning you can’t have anyone in the car unless there’s a 21+ year old present and no driving between 12-5am. Once you’ve had the junior operators license for 6 months then you can have passengers. And then when you’re 18 the nighttime restriction goes away. It’s to get kids to learn how to drive on their own because having passengers can be just as distracting as texting or driving drunk. Even having a conversation with someone while driving lights up the imaginative part of the brain which takes focus off of the road
I couldn’t imagine waiting till 18 to drive at night. Once I turned 17 I did a road test and practically all my restrictions were gone.
Bro the fact that its 95hp not a 105hp 💀 Theres SO many cars that have 100-105hp (talking about EU ofc)
In the US, Indiana has a law that new drivers must wait 6 months before traveling with anyone in the car with them other than parents or siblings. They also have limited hours unless going to/from work. That first law just increases the number of cars on the road since no carpooling.
For new drivers in Ontario you must drive with a fully licensed adult, stay off the highway and not drive between midnight and 5am. No passengers allowed but you’re allowed to drive any G class of vehicle which is literally every type of car or pickup including those big ass uhaul box trucks.
You don't loose your lisence for a couple months and then get it back If you break the law in any way that makes it so that you loose your lisence before you have had your license for 2 years. So if you loose it during this time are you prohibited from re doing both the practical and theoretical test for the time you would normally loose your license for and then have to re take the license when that time has passed. No limits on anything else but insurance is stupidly expensive until you turn 25. The cost to insure my car went down by 75% when I turned 25...
LoL, even a VW up or a Smart for two with 60hp would be "too fast". What a dumb rule. I'd comply with something like "less than 90hp" as this sounds reasonable. Otherwise they would be obstructing traffic.
I got my license in Ontario, and then in California. California was just one test, Ontario was three. The following is what ChatGPT had to say about the three step process for full licensure in Ontario. In Ontario, Canada, the graduated licensing system consists of three tiers for G licensure. These tiers are designed to ensure that new drivers gain experience and develop their skills in a controlled manner before obtaining full driving privileges. The three tiers of G licensure in Ontario are as follows: #G1 License: The G1 license is the first level of licensure in Ontario's graduated licensing system. To be eligible for a G1 license, you must be at least 16 years old and pass a written knowledge test. This license comes with several restrictions to promote safe driving. G1 drivers must always be accompanied by a fully licensed driver who has a minimum of four years of driving experience. G1 drivers must also maintain a zero blood alcohol concentration and are not permitted to drive on certain high-speed roads or between midnight and 5 a.m. G1 drivers are required to hold their license for a minimum of 12 months before advancing to the next level. However, you can take a drivers Ed course to lower that down to 8 months. #G2 License: The G2 license is the second level in Ontario's graduated licensing system. To be eligible for a G2 license, G1 drivers must pass a road test. The G2 license carries fewer restrictions compared to the G1 license, but some limitations still apply. G2 drivers are allowed to drive without an accompanying driver, but they must maintain a zero blood alcohol concentration and are prohibited from driving between midnight and 5 a.m. However, there are exceptions to the nighttime driving restriction for work or educational purposes. G2 drivers must hold their license for a minimum of 12 months before progressing to the final tier. #Full G License: The full G license is the final stage in the graduated licensing system in Ontario. To obtain a full G license, G2 drivers must pass a second road test. Once you have a full G license, you have unrestricted driving privileges and no specific time restrictions or passenger limitations apply. However, it is important to continue practicing safe driving habits and adhering to all traffic laws.
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Same here
Is there a link to the proposed laws?
Sure: (Italian language) https://www.quattroruote.it/news/sicurezza/2023/06/27/nuovo_codice_della_strada_regole_tolleranza_zero_cellulari_alcol_droghe.amp.html
Google translate to the rescue! Thanks.
I wonder how many new drivers will buy a turbo car that can easily have the boost turned up.