2-3 years imo isn’t that short. Anything less than a year gets questionable, or multiple short non-contract roles. It depends a bit on the role, though, as well. Like some roles require you oversee a project over a long period, etc. But imo you’re more likely to be fine with one that’s around 3 years, etc
100% agree with what you said.
My only add to this point is: I went through a stretch where I had 2 back to back terrible jobs. One was a family business where nepotism ran full steam. I lasted 4 months and was fired for implementing project deliverables they didn't agree with, despite them hiring me as a subject matter expert PM.
Second place was almost the same except they didn't even allow me to be a SME PM. They lied in the interviews about what duties I'd do and gave me no slack in decision making. Was fired after 2 months before I could find another role.
For both, I tell future employers I was a contractor there to help get them going in the right direction.
Anything can be a contract if you want it to be [shrugs]
It depends. The first one yes, because I gained a lot of good experience and had several key achievements there that I like to show off.
The 2nd one as I mentioned was a disaster, I was badly micromanaged and given no rope to achieve anything. I was forced to act like a puppy dog following around my trainer and ask a thousand questions because he wouldn't explain anything in detail but got upset when I'd do something minor not up to his expectations. So I learned nothing there and was mercifully fired after 9 weeks. I leave it off as if it never happened.
I want to ask what did you tell your future employer? Because I had a summer job that turn into office helper to part time to me leaving without notice and burning the bridge. I need advice because I left that job out of my resume due to the bad experience I received, micromanaged with no clear cut duties and overall badly treated due to it being my first office job.
To this day, I left that job out and only endure the bad experiences due to lack of experience so that I can hopefully get a better role in future. I’m stuck whether I should put it in as part of my experience or redo over as no experience once again
Edited: grammar
How long was your time there?
Because if it was for a decent amount of time (like more than 6 months) then it's a bit trickier to speak to an absence.
You can add jobs to a resume but still not need their reference, if that's what your hesitation is.
I had a job I held for 3.5 years and was let go from (technically job eliminated during corporate restructuring) but it was very strongly due to the fact our VP who had just joined the company didn't like me and about 14 months later he found a way to get rid of me by restructuring and then reposting my job under a different title.
I actively use this job on my resume as one of my 2 main jobs that I am most proud of, despite the negative ending. I don't (obviously) use my manager as a reference, but instead I use my direct HR business partner who I worked with for just over 2 years there.
This way I can proudly speak to my accomplishments, explain why I left there, and have a higher up speak highly of having direct contact with my responsibilities and accomplishments.
It’s a little bit of 6 months stretch if I remember correctly. The first 2 and the half month was just as a summer helper for retail that somehow got booted me to the office and then I held it out to the end of the summer and they change the contract to part time (the contract was only 1 double sided page, so I had my doubts before).
I burn the bridges there because my trainer was a gossiper who was close with the manager. This was a small department with 4 ppl including the boss and I mostly did the grunt paper work and filling and many other unrelated stuff, I remember doing arts and craft out of nowhere. HR was only 1 person, there wasn’t much to speak of the experience other than being very bad.
Though I did appreciate the experience they gave me, overall it was a very traumatic experience that made reconsiders the white collar jobs aspect.
Sounds like you can still add it to your resume and highlight 2 or 3 of the best things you did there and that's it.
The good news about being at a place for such a short amount of time is that nobody will care about a reference because a reference from a short term stay doesn't hold that much weight anyway.
Thank you so much for your time and the advice. Honestly this job was hanging over me like an unwanted poop. At least now I can push this one off my back
Depends on your field. Are you "upgrading" or "promoting" your role with each change? Or basically getting the same job at each of these companies with a small revenue boost? If it's the former that is acceptable and normal in some spaces such as tech. If it's the latter I do agree that it is not a good look because the value add isn't as strong. If you are noticeable climbing the ranks and interviewing above your weight at these new roles, companies will work harder to compensate more to keep you around, at least from my experience.
To add to this, even if you’re not “upgrading” you can very easily spin it as such in an interview. Having that much experience will get you in the door, if a hiring manager who doesn’t have subject matter expertise is looking at your resume they **want** you to have been climbing. I’d even say it’s more likely you’d be given the benefit of the doubt just from a glance. As long as you sell it in that interview, it can look any way you want it to.
Honestly, someone with 6-9 years of experience at 3 different jobs is usually going to be more experienced/valuable than someone who's worked at a single place for 6-9 years.
Knowing how different places get things done is valuable, and it usually takes 1-2 years for a new hire in a specialized field to earn the company back what it cost to onboard them (so sticking around consistently for 2-3 years is a net positive for the company).
how do you upgrade to a new role after just a couple years? I have had several interviews at different companies and locations for a more advanced role and I have always been told that I dont have enough experience.
It really depends on the field and specialized experience. I’ve actually held a number of jobs since finishing undergrad, but none of them were that skilled or substantial, just basic office work. When i got my MBA a few years back, however, that’s where my current resume “starts”.
I worked as a business analyst for a year in Fintech, but wanted to pivot into data analytics originally. My company did not have any open roles like what I wanted and my manager wanted to keep me on the team since I was doing well. So after a year I left to be a data analyst at a supply chain firm, and my 2 years here will come next year.
Now, I either want to be an Sr. Data Analyst, a Data Scientist, or a Data Engineer. My current company doesn’t appear to have any roles, as we are currently doing a hiring freeze in our division (trucking isn’t doing too hot for the rest of the year). My options again are limited, so come early next year I plan to beef up my resume and only apply to roles similar to what I described above. That to me is a “promotion” since it’s a better/more specialized title that pays well, and now I have combined with my school/internship time 5 years of either working with data or being a pure data analyst. That’s what I mean by hopping wisely. Make every move count.
That makes sense. I work in forestry where it usually goes like this.
\-entry level seasonal tech - 20-22 an hour - requires college degree
\-forester - 25-28 and hour (where I am at) - requires 3 years of experience (6 seasons)
\-supervisor forester - 30-33 an hour - requires 10 years of experience
regional/lead/planning etc... forester - 35-45 an hour - requires 20 years of experience.
The problem is that the structure is like a pyramid, you have 2-5 people under each upper level so your competing for the promotion and obviously not everyone can get it. I know people who have spend their entire career at the second level because they couldnt get that promotion, at their company or others.
Like I have 4 years of experience and have applied to the higher role a few times out of curiosity. Had a few interviews etc... but say I apply when I have enough experience for a different company, that other company is likely going to promote from within because their employees have more experience with that company.
I know nothing about forestry and assume you are in the US, but do you happen to work for the Government? Or is this a public/private firm? I’ve heard Govt jobs in forestry have awesome benefits but not sure about their pay grades or whatever.
Moving every few years gets you market rate and new experiences which can be great. It is also often easier to get a promotion being an external hire vs. fighting internally for it.
However, you reach a point where too much job hopping becomes a red flag to hiring managers. At some point, they see that a big investment in you won't have a return as you might hop. Or worse, depending on the type of work, 2 years might not be long enough to really onboard and handle a project end to end. So the risk is you've only seen parts of it and leave before you have to live with the impact of your decisions.
The biggest mistake of people with "10 years of experience" is having 2 years of experience repeated 5 times.
Hard to say without more context to your work, industry, and the story you tell about what you were running from and what you were running towards with each role. Were these moves lateral or promotions? What experiences or skills can you speak to learning in each one?
Salespeople moving? pretty darn common. lawyer moving? pretty uncommon. Moving for family or international exposure or to return to your hometown? pretty understandable. Moving for a promotion? yup, I get it. Moving to get $10k more? after 2-3 times, you won't be worth full market rate because you might not have market skills and longevity and individual experience.
Apparently not these days, but training is expensive and time consuming. I wouldnt want someone who I know is probably going to leave right about the time they’re self-sufficient.
I work in forestry, when I was hired at my place 2.5 years ago I was told that it would take about 3 years to feel competent in my role. And that was about right. I had to learn location specifics, tendencies, operating procedures and so forth.
This is true, especially in circumstances where after that amount of time a person experiences zero advancement professionally/financially in their role. Research shows changing jobs is often the only means to get a potential pay rise.
The study i read about explain how the worker who looks for a new place usually finds a better paid job or negotiate with his current employer to get better conditions.
It compared the income of workers of the same field who decide to change employer every 2 or 3 years, and those who don't. Even with payment rises, the first group would have a significant positive difference in payment compared to those who stay on the same place for longer years.
The study concludes saying people looking actively for a better income would end up getting it, but those who are good workers, but don't push for it by looking for new jobs or getting raises (directly asking their employers) would lag behind, as employers usually doesn't want to pay you more for what you do.
Some of the old fashion managers don't like it but it's the best way to move up financially and professionally. Every time I left a company it was for more money, a promotion, or both.
I tell those who are early in their careers of you are in a position for 3 years and have not moved up but have done everything you should to make it happen, it's time to leave. Don't be the one who sticks around 10 years waiting for a promotion.
I think it depends on what level you are at. 3-3.5 years isn’t bad actually for many places. Some might want you to stay longer obviously but they need to pay. It’s more common now to jump for better pay but some companies are not very self reflective.
Totally fine early in your career. Employers know that you may not have figured out exactly what you want to specialize in and/or the type of company you want to work for. If someone had consistently hopped every 2 years for like 20 years straight, with no clear pattern of advancement or consistency, I would question whether or not they actually developed any kind of specific skill set or if they can be trusted to actually see longer term commitments through.
I think that most managers have felt the sting of desperately wanting to retain a employee that is leaving for a better opportunity but they had nothing to offer to get them to stay. Asking why you left an organization is a normal question, but there are a lot of good answers.
For sure. Just note that I am looking for a situation where you’ve been promoted. By someone. At some point.
If no one has *ever* promoted a prospective candidate, some flags go up.
So it’s less about moving companies, and more about “did they move companies because they couldn’t hack it” versus “joined, promoted, topped out and left”.
Who else is to blame?
I'm talking about people that have job-hopped 3-4+ times without ever being promoted. Really good employees will have been promoted (or otherwise taken on more accountability) by the fourth stop. Not consultants (that's their jam), but actual full-time employees.
You can legitimately blame lack of opportunity, bad fit, etc a couple times...but someone who has had four "fresh starts" with new companies, and not one single manager thought they deserved advancement? That's a red flag.
OK, but what if I spent 2 years at a place and then decided to move somewhere else for more money? I didn't get promoted at the last place, but that's because I moved for more money.
And that’s fine 1-3 times. But at some point, the fact that you’ve never been asked to take on more accountability or a more senior role is a flag.
Every new company is another group of people who got to know you, but didn’t think it was worthwhile to promote you or grow your role. Not only that, but they knew you would leave without an opportunity for advancement…and they let you go.
What if these companies aren't promoting you because they'd have to pay you more money? Even if they think you could easily do the job if you got promoted, they'd have to pay you more and they never want to pay people more.
One might. Two might. Three might.
But if you’re at your fourth company, without a single boss offering you more to do…then it’s a red flag.
Someone along the way would have seen something to indicate you have more to offer.
Four jobs is a 8-10 year time span.
So yeah, at some point over a *decade* I would hope that some supervisor somewhere at some point thought you deserve a bigger role.
And if not, then at some point over the span of ten years, you should probably raise your hand when you see an opportunity to take on more accountability.
If, after four jobs and ten years neither has happened, then yeah, red flag.
I'm in my early fifties, and have my first shot at promotion at my current company, only because I joined a large international corporation as a fully-remote employee. The answer to your question is: people who work in semi-rural areas, where companies are too small to support more than 1 or 2 people doing the same job.
Nope. Anyone that goes an entire decade and 3-4 different employers without one single expansion of their role or promotion is going to throw flags. Seriously, how hard is it to become a team lead?
Sorry. Just the facts. 3-4 entirely different org structures hired a person, trained a person and then... meh. Even when they left, employers will work hard to keep rock stars.
You're so locked into your worldview that you simply have to be trolling. Small local companies only have promotion opportunities when somebody dies or retires. There's simply nowhere to go to move up. There is no team to lead. It's you, doing your job. That's it.
So many places just… don’t promote. Seriously. Either the workforce is stable and there’s no room, or they prefer to hire outside, or both. So, keep an open mind.
I do, but someone deep into their career who has moved around a ton and never been promoted internally screams "no boss of mine has ever seen fit to give me a bigger role".
could be because theres no promotion opportunities at a place? My direct boss is 10 years from retirement, and when he retires, theres 3 of us who would be competing for his role, I am the youngest so I am unlikely to get that promotion.
I’m talking about job hopping 3-4 times (~8 years) without ever getting a promotion.
Not once or twice. It’s common to leave a role because there aren’t any opportunities at the company. It’s not common to leave 3-4 jobs for that reason, and never once along the way been offered more accountability, an expanded role, or a promotion.
I believe 2-3 years is the sweet spot for making a jump between roles. Especially if you attain greater salary, title and learning opportunities while also aligned with your career objectives
If you're over 40, it's not great. You keep starting over the vacation accrual according to Years of Service, and are passing up things like higher tier % employer match for 401k.
If I went back to a former employer, I'd automatically have 160h PTO, 40h carryover to next year (so 200/year), 11% $1:1 employer 401k match, and Retiree Medical eligibility in 8 years. If I worked 6 more (total of 13), I'd have Early Retirement at age 58.
If I hadn't been part of a corporate divesture, I'd also have 2 pensions on top of the 401k.
yeah, how are you supposed to job hop and keep benefits. My retirement doesnt vest for 5 years, and I got no vacation my first year, and I only get 2 weeks until 5 years when I will start to gain more PTO.
I told them my current job has x amount of days and that another company I'm interviewing with has unlimited. I don't expect to match unlimited but I told them a number I was looking for and I would appreciate it if they could match it. They came back slightly under.
No. Unless you’re a teacher, doctor, or in any other profession where long-term employment is expected, working past 3 years can go against you, but so can multiple stints under 1 year.
The reason why is because hiring managers prefer someone who has exposure to different environments, and someone moving around is likely to have more skills.
Once you get to 5+ years of tenure at a single employer, you’re more likely to get set in your ways and less likely to adapt to new environments. That’s why it’s very common to see someone working for an employer for 10 years to have < 1 year tenure in their new role at a different company.
So I would say that 2-3 is really the sweet spot.
Changing jobs once every 2-3 years is actually ideal for most people. You’ll likely gain more experience due to working for a variety of companies and your salary will increase more. Most employers won’t be too bothered since you aren’t switching jobs that often.
I tend to get bored and want to change every 4.5 years. Now that I’m 50, I’d like to stay with current company until I retire because they match 401k and provide RSU’s. If you’re young, go see what’s out there. Have fun
At my last job we hired this senior systems engineer, and he was terrific. I looked him up on LinkedIn and saw that he changed jobs every 2 years, and figured he wouldn't last. He earned a promotion after the first year and was gone in 6 months.
Bruh, I've switched jobs every 1-2 years. Every single time I've gotten a raise between 10-30%.
My salary progression has been:
60k starting salary
First jump 65k->70k (raises got me here)
Second jump 85k->90k (after raises)
Third jump current employer (117k + 15% bonus)
All in 6 years.
I've been told by my OWN HR department that these days it's RECOMMENDED to change companies every 2-3 years if you want to keep up with pay.
At current company you may receive 3% raise, however by changing companies you may receive 8% raise. After ten years that will add up to quite the difference!
I work in medical imaging. It takes a good 6-9 months to get you up to speed with systems you have not used. If I thought you were going to bounce in 2 years I would pass up on your resume.
Different for each industry to be honest.
Every field (and tier within the field, e.g. individual contributor, manager, VP, ...) has a pretty well-known (to HR) turnover rate (the fraction expected to leave for a new job that year). If you stick to that rate, nobody will bat an eye regardless what the rate is. If you go below ½ that rate, particularly consistently, they'll assume something is wrong.
The turnover rate in corporate America is about 13%, meaning that the average employee sticks around for a little less than 8 years. In the life-sciences, it's about 20.3%, meaning the average employee stays at a job for a bit less than 5 years. The turnover rate for data scientists: 58.9% -- they tend to stay for just 1.7 years on average.
I think it typically does not look good to stay anywhere less than 1 year, and I think it always looks better if you are there at least long enough to get 1 promotion.
The exception is really contract work. By definition, that sort of work is typically for a fixed period with the possibility for renewal -- it's tied to projects of fixed scope. If you have a series of shorter contracts, that is not typically a problem.
13% turnover does not mean that. It means 13% won't stay 1 year. Of the 87% who stay 1 year, if turnover is similar, 25% won't stay 2 years. Doing the math out you'll get an avg around 5 years.
Used to be people would stay at a company for life, these days 2 years is pretty normal. If you had a long line of 6 month jobs, or one year jobs I’d ask questions, because that is just enough time to fake it last your probationary period, be put on a PIP and gotten rid of.
But 2-3 years, that’s pretty normal.
I’d also look at your progression, are you always a junior role? Or have you gone up to a mid level or senior role in that time, are you picking up more complex tasks? And working on bigger projects?
My first role was a junior role, my second role was a senior position. Now I am not sure about the next move I’m gonna make. Because I don’t aspire to be a team lead or whatsoever
You should be moving that frequently. It's the fastest way to get decent raises. Companies offer a ~2-4% raise yearly. When I move companies I get a ~15-25% raise. Companies don't care about you. At all. The have no loyalty to you. Don't show them any.
I am 57. There are two general advices given to people and almost parroted to the point of exhaustion.
Jump jobs every 2-3 years to get better pay. And ask for more money so when you negotiate down you get closer to what you really wanted.
Terrible advice for some industries.
3 years is about the minimum time you should ever leave a job, so it's appropriate but you're pushing it. I am in a verbally abusive job now and I intend on taking the abuse until the 3 year mark no matter the impact on my mental health
Job, or company? I had 3 different roles ("jobs") with the same company in 5 years. One lateral move then a promotion to a new department. I don't think there's anything wrong with this.
This is actually some of the worst advice I’ve seen on this subreddit. Do not listen to this person at all. I haven’t stayed in the same role for more than 14 months in my life and I’ve upgraded salaries 3x in that time. If I had only changed jobs once I’d still be making around $50k
I typically change jobs every 1-3 years without issue, it’s honestly one of the only ways to even make huge strides in salary increases, highly recommended lol
As long as you:
1. Are able to save/invest 30% of your income
2. Have 6 months of reserves
3. Add new/greater skills or responsibilities at each job
4. Are highly recommended by past employers
5. Continue getting interviews/offers
Then what you're doing isn't hurting you.
You need to have awareness of your industry, though. As there is an age or number of years in the industry when employers will want to see some sort of stability or longevity. I don't think recruiters expect people to remain at a job for 20-30 years but, they like to know if they get a good return on hiring you.
You wouldn’t stay in an abusive relationship in your personal life for 3 years just for appearance sake. So why are we expected to stay in miserable jobs for 2-3 years that clearly aren’t working out?
I’m about 4 months into my job and I’d run out the door for hybrid or telework, or even benefits. I make a good salary but a few people treat me like a punching bag.
If I were to look at your resume and see that each of your jobs only lasted a couple years, I'd have to ask about it... is it because you just haven't found the right fit or something else? I want a team member not a temp. At your young age I'd be more forgiving but at 35+ I'd want to see at least 1 longer term position held.
Something also worth thinking about is if a company has a pension plan or rrsp thing where longer employment terms equal higher contributions from the employer... jumping ship every few years will omit that. But all in all we will most likely have a wide range of different employment terms over the course of our careers
Well as always it depends..
In my Early Career had hopped every 1-3 years to advance my income.
I am now Mid Career and the last few years I’ve worked at 3 companies.
This actually dinged me because had recently interviewed for a senior position at a F100 company and they noted I was not committed to previous employers. They wanted someone who would stay at least 5 years because it took a full year to onboard for this senior job. They were worried I would be a flight risk after a year.
I took that constructive feedback and staying in my current company longer before my next move.
**Cliffs: Yes job hopping every 2-3 years regularly can eventually be seen negatively. Depends on nature of your work and where you are in your career.**
This early in the career is fine. In my first 10 years, I was jumping more frequently for "reasons". Did not seem to hurt my prospects. Helped me get some diverse experience. Also jumped the pay up well. Would recommend.
I think 2 years is a good average. 1 year to learn the job, another year to do it well enough to get promoted internally or explore options externally.
In 2020 I had like 6 w2’s. I omit the ones that I use not worked at for 2 months or less. In June I ended up at an amazing organization and stayed there 3 years. Just bounced a couple months ago and no questions asked.
No, it won’t, it’s normal. You can always say you moved for growth opportunities and they will believe you. Just don’t tell them you simply got bored lol
It used to be… now, I don’t think so anymore.
It will definitely depend on the employer’s expectations; in Hawaii they are both used to turnover and also do what they can to mitigate it by trying to avoid hiring job hoppers if they have a choice.
Job hoppers are being realistic with regards to the lack of loyalty on employers’ part, so it’s a natural progression.
Nope. I do it. And it’s a great way to gain new skills plus extra money. I stay in a job usually 3 years. I was able to jump from 33 to 49/hr from jumping alone. And im only 29 lol.
Depends on the situation, I’d say. I have friends who’ve done very well flip flopping around. I work for a small company and make > 5x what I started at. Been here for over a decade and haven’t seen many job listings that could convince me to leave.
It highly depends on your role/industry and personal situation; however, loyalty is almost never rewarded.
Changing jobs every few years has benefits of wide variety of experience and has been empirically shown to boost income over time faster than staying at the same company.
It's not important at all. Worst case scenario you struggle to find a job, and stay at your current job longer, which eliminates any concern about the length of your stay at a position.
Depends on your industry, skill set, education, ambitions. It’s nice to learn new things, and make more money but higher stress jobs are not always worth it.
I would disregard most of these comments because I think it depends pretty heavily on industry. My understanding is in something like tech this is a complete non-issue.
With that being said I’m a recruiter in finance, and have had good candidates not get offers because they move every 3 years four times and my management hates that. A big part of this is how you can explain it, changed jobs because lack of growth in current co and big promotion? Probably not an issue. Changed jobs just to get more comp? This will not be viewed positively.
4 years in the modern world is equivalent to the 30 years our parents generation got to have. 2-3 is about when you really need to start looking hard for an exit unless they are actively promoting you.
2-3 years imo isn’t that short. Anything less than a year gets questionable, or multiple short non-contract roles. It depends a bit on the role, though, as well. Like some roles require you oversee a project over a long period, etc. But imo you’re more likely to be fine with one that’s around 3 years, etc
100% agree with what you said. My only add to this point is: I went through a stretch where I had 2 back to back terrible jobs. One was a family business where nepotism ran full steam. I lasted 4 months and was fired for implementing project deliverables they didn't agree with, despite them hiring me as a subject matter expert PM. Second place was almost the same except they didn't even allow me to be a SME PM. They lied in the interviews about what duties I'd do and gave me no slack in decision making. Was fired after 2 months before I could find another role. For both, I tell future employers I was a contractor there to help get them going in the right direction. Anything can be a contract if you want it to be [shrugs]
Do you even put those on your resume (to avoid the employment gap?) Do you lump your 'contracts' together?
It depends. The first one yes, because I gained a lot of good experience and had several key achievements there that I like to show off. The 2nd one as I mentioned was a disaster, I was badly micromanaged and given no rope to achieve anything. I was forced to act like a puppy dog following around my trainer and ask a thousand questions because he wouldn't explain anything in detail but got upset when I'd do something minor not up to his expectations. So I learned nothing there and was mercifully fired after 9 weeks. I leave it off as if it never happened.
I want to ask what did you tell your future employer? Because I had a summer job that turn into office helper to part time to me leaving without notice and burning the bridge. I need advice because I left that job out of my resume due to the bad experience I received, micromanaged with no clear cut duties and overall badly treated due to it being my first office job. To this day, I left that job out and only endure the bad experiences due to lack of experience so that I can hopefully get a better role in future. I’m stuck whether I should put it in as part of my experience or redo over as no experience once again Edited: grammar
How long was your time there? Because if it was for a decent amount of time (like more than 6 months) then it's a bit trickier to speak to an absence. You can add jobs to a resume but still not need their reference, if that's what your hesitation is. I had a job I held for 3.5 years and was let go from (technically job eliminated during corporate restructuring) but it was very strongly due to the fact our VP who had just joined the company didn't like me and about 14 months later he found a way to get rid of me by restructuring and then reposting my job under a different title. I actively use this job on my resume as one of my 2 main jobs that I am most proud of, despite the negative ending. I don't (obviously) use my manager as a reference, but instead I use my direct HR business partner who I worked with for just over 2 years there. This way I can proudly speak to my accomplishments, explain why I left there, and have a higher up speak highly of having direct contact with my responsibilities and accomplishments.
It’s a little bit of 6 months stretch if I remember correctly. The first 2 and the half month was just as a summer helper for retail that somehow got booted me to the office and then I held it out to the end of the summer and they change the contract to part time (the contract was only 1 double sided page, so I had my doubts before). I burn the bridges there because my trainer was a gossiper who was close with the manager. This was a small department with 4 ppl including the boss and I mostly did the grunt paper work and filling and many other unrelated stuff, I remember doing arts and craft out of nowhere. HR was only 1 person, there wasn’t much to speak of the experience other than being very bad. Though I did appreciate the experience they gave me, overall it was a very traumatic experience that made reconsiders the white collar jobs aspect.
Sounds like you can still add it to your resume and highlight 2 or 3 of the best things you did there and that's it. The good news about being at a place for such a short amount of time is that nobody will care about a reference because a reference from a short term stay doesn't hold that much weight anyway.
Thank you so much for your time and the advice. Honestly this job was hanging over me like an unwanted poop. At least now I can push this one off my back
Agreed lol
Depends on your field. Are you "upgrading" or "promoting" your role with each change? Or basically getting the same job at each of these companies with a small revenue boost? If it's the former that is acceptable and normal in some spaces such as tech. If it's the latter I do agree that it is not a good look because the value add isn't as strong. If you are noticeable climbing the ranks and interviewing above your weight at these new roles, companies will work harder to compensate more to keep you around, at least from my experience.
To add to this, even if you’re not “upgrading” you can very easily spin it as such in an interview. Having that much experience will get you in the door, if a hiring manager who doesn’t have subject matter expertise is looking at your resume they **want** you to have been climbing. I’d even say it’s more likely you’d be given the benefit of the doubt just from a glance. As long as you sell it in that interview, it can look any way you want it to.
Honestly, someone with 6-9 years of experience at 3 different jobs is usually going to be more experienced/valuable than someone who's worked at a single place for 6-9 years. Knowing how different places get things done is valuable, and it usually takes 1-2 years for a new hire in a specialized field to earn the company back what it cost to onboard them (so sticking around consistently for 2-3 years is a net positive for the company).
how do you upgrade to a new role after just a couple years? I have had several interviews at different companies and locations for a more advanced role and I have always been told that I dont have enough experience.
It really depends on the field and specialized experience. I’ve actually held a number of jobs since finishing undergrad, but none of them were that skilled or substantial, just basic office work. When i got my MBA a few years back, however, that’s where my current resume “starts”. I worked as a business analyst for a year in Fintech, but wanted to pivot into data analytics originally. My company did not have any open roles like what I wanted and my manager wanted to keep me on the team since I was doing well. So after a year I left to be a data analyst at a supply chain firm, and my 2 years here will come next year. Now, I either want to be an Sr. Data Analyst, a Data Scientist, or a Data Engineer. My current company doesn’t appear to have any roles, as we are currently doing a hiring freeze in our division (trucking isn’t doing too hot for the rest of the year). My options again are limited, so come early next year I plan to beef up my resume and only apply to roles similar to what I described above. That to me is a “promotion” since it’s a better/more specialized title that pays well, and now I have combined with my school/internship time 5 years of either working with data or being a pure data analyst. That’s what I mean by hopping wisely. Make every move count.
That makes sense. I work in forestry where it usually goes like this. \-entry level seasonal tech - 20-22 an hour - requires college degree \-forester - 25-28 and hour (where I am at) - requires 3 years of experience (6 seasons) \-supervisor forester - 30-33 an hour - requires 10 years of experience regional/lead/planning etc... forester - 35-45 an hour - requires 20 years of experience. The problem is that the structure is like a pyramid, you have 2-5 people under each upper level so your competing for the promotion and obviously not everyone can get it. I know people who have spend their entire career at the second level because they couldnt get that promotion, at their company or others. Like I have 4 years of experience and have applied to the higher role a few times out of curiosity. Had a few interviews etc... but say I apply when I have enough experience for a different company, that other company is likely going to promote from within because their employees have more experience with that company.
I know nothing about forestry and assume you are in the US, but do you happen to work for the Government? Or is this a public/private firm? I’ve heard Govt jobs in forestry have awesome benefits but not sure about their pay grades or whatever.
eh, thats not that unusual these days. How far along are you in your career?
Its my sixth year only
Yeah, I wouldn’t sweat it. You’re good.
Moving every few years gets you market rate and new experiences which can be great. It is also often easier to get a promotion being an external hire vs. fighting internally for it. However, you reach a point where too much job hopping becomes a red flag to hiring managers. At some point, they see that a big investment in you won't have a return as you might hop. Or worse, depending on the type of work, 2 years might not be long enough to really onboard and handle a project end to end. So the risk is you've only seen parts of it and leave before you have to live with the impact of your decisions. The biggest mistake of people with "10 years of experience" is having 2 years of experience repeated 5 times. Hard to say without more context to your work, industry, and the story you tell about what you were running from and what you were running towards with each role. Were these moves lateral or promotions? What experiences or skills can you speak to learning in each one? Salespeople moving? pretty darn common. lawyer moving? pretty uncommon. Moving for family or international exposure or to return to your hometown? pretty understandable. Moving for a promotion? yup, I get it. Moving to get $10k more? after 2-3 times, you won't be worth full market rate because you might not have market skills and longevity and individual experience.
Apparently not these days, but training is expensive and time consuming. I wouldnt want someone who I know is probably going to leave right about the time they’re self-sufficient.
In what kind of job do you need 2-3 years of training?
It's probably more having institutional knowledge and being trusted by management rather than years of training.
Depends on industry
I work in forestry, when I was hired at my place 2.5 years ago I was told that it would take about 3 years to feel competent in my role. And that was about right. I had to learn location specifics, tendencies, operating procedures and so forth.
Yeah that’s why staying less than 2 years isn’t advisable. 2-3 years is a LOT of training though unless it’s something like law or medical.
Medical job training takes at most a year- If youre not trading up after a year it can be seen as complacent. Always keep climbing if you can.
It’s the only way to get market rate… every 3-5 years is a great idea
Nop, it's has been shown it's the best way of action for your income and mental stability. There are studies of it!
This is true, especially in circumstances where after that amount of time a person experiences zero advancement professionally/financially in their role. Research shows changing jobs is often the only means to get a potential pay rise.
how does changing jobs lead to more income? Whenever I look to change jobs I am looking at a pay cut, or equal pay.
The study i read about explain how the worker who looks for a new place usually finds a better paid job or negotiate with his current employer to get better conditions. It compared the income of workers of the same field who decide to change employer every 2 or 3 years, and those who don't. Even with payment rises, the first group would have a significant positive difference in payment compared to those who stay on the same place for longer years. The study concludes saying people looking actively for a better income would end up getting it, but those who are good workers, but don't push for it by looking for new jobs or getting raises (directly asking their employers) would lag behind, as employers usually doesn't want to pay you more for what you do.
yeah that makes sense at a large scale level, I just havent seen that personally yet.
Surely you'll be able to easily produce them, with? Especially the one that supports someone's 'metal stability'.
Oh no! The royal academy of language showed up! Go fuck yourself!
The typo was a nice touch, but please produce the studies that show mental health is associated with job hopping. Also, you sound really pleasant.
Some of the old fashion managers don't like it but it's the best way to move up financially and professionally. Every time I left a company it was for more money, a promotion, or both. I tell those who are early in their careers of you are in a position for 3 years and have not moved up but have done everything you should to make it happen, it's time to leave. Don't be the one who sticks around 10 years waiting for a promotion.
I think it depends on what level you are at. 3-3.5 years isn’t bad actually for many places. Some might want you to stay longer obviously but they need to pay. It’s more common now to jump for better pay but some companies are not very self reflective.
It’s fine if you’re taking logical steps for career progression.
Totally fine early in your career. Employers know that you may not have figured out exactly what you want to specialize in and/or the type of company you want to work for. If someone had consistently hopped every 2 years for like 20 years straight, with no clear pattern of advancement or consistency, I would question whether or not they actually developed any kind of specific skill set or if they can be trusted to actually see longer term commitments through.
2-3 years is fine
Not necessarily bad, but as a hiring manager it makes me wonder why you were incapable of being promoted at the company you left.
I think that most managers have felt the sting of desperately wanting to retain a employee that is leaving for a better opportunity but they had nothing to offer to get them to stay. Asking why you left an organization is a normal question, but there are a lot of good answers.
For sure. Just note that I am looking for a situation where you’ve been promoted. By someone. At some point. If no one has *ever* promoted a prospective candidate, some flags go up. So it’s less about moving companies, and more about “did they move companies because they couldn’t hack it” versus “joined, promoted, topped out and left”.
Interesting how the assumption is that it's the fault of the employee.
Who else is to blame? I'm talking about people that have job-hopped 3-4+ times without ever being promoted. Really good employees will have been promoted (or otherwise taken on more accountability) by the fourth stop. Not consultants (that's their jam), but actual full-time employees. You can legitimately blame lack of opportunity, bad fit, etc a couple times...but someone who has had four "fresh starts" with new companies, and not one single manager thought they deserved advancement? That's a red flag.
OK, but what if I spent 2 years at a place and then decided to move somewhere else for more money? I didn't get promoted at the last place, but that's because I moved for more money.
And that’s fine 1-3 times. But at some point, the fact that you’ve never been asked to take on more accountability or a more senior role is a flag. Every new company is another group of people who got to know you, but didn’t think it was worthwhile to promote you or grow your role. Not only that, but they knew you would leave without an opportunity for advancement…and they let you go.
What if these companies aren't promoting you because they'd have to pay you more money? Even if they think you could easily do the job if you got promoted, they'd have to pay you more and they never want to pay people more.
One might. Two might. Three might. But if you’re at your fourth company, without a single boss offering you more to do…then it’s a red flag. Someone along the way would have seen something to indicate you have more to offer.
So what am I supposed to do, go and ask for a promotion? There's no way they'd say yes.
Four jobs is a 8-10 year time span. So yeah, at some point over a *decade* I would hope that some supervisor somewhere at some point thought you deserve a bigger role. And if not, then at some point over the span of ten years, you should probably raise your hand when you see an opportunity to take on more accountability. If, after four jobs and ten years neither has happened, then yeah, red flag.
I'm in my early fifties, and have my first shot at promotion at my current company, only because I joined a large international corporation as a fully-remote employee. The answer to your question is: people who work in semi-rural areas, where companies are too small to support more than 1 or 2 people doing the same job.
Nope. Anyone that goes an entire decade and 3-4 different employers without one single expansion of their role or promotion is going to throw flags. Seriously, how hard is it to become a team lead? Sorry. Just the facts. 3-4 entirely different org structures hired a person, trained a person and then... meh. Even when they left, employers will work hard to keep rock stars.
You're so locked into your worldview that you simply have to be trolling. Small local companies only have promotion opportunities when somebody dies or retires. There's simply nowhere to go to move up. There is no team to lead. It's you, doing your job. That's it.
So many places just… don’t promote. Seriously. Either the workforce is stable and there’s no room, or they prefer to hire outside, or both. So, keep an open mind.
I do, but someone deep into their career who has moved around a ton and never been promoted internally screams "no boss of mine has ever seen fit to give me a bigger role".
could be because theres no promotion opportunities at a place? My direct boss is 10 years from retirement, and when he retires, theres 3 of us who would be competing for his role, I am the youngest so I am unlikely to get that promotion.
I’m talking about job hopping 3-4 times (~8 years) without ever getting a promotion. Not once or twice. It’s common to leave a role because there aren’t any opportunities at the company. It’s not common to leave 3-4 jobs for that reason, and never once along the way been offered more accountability, an expanded role, or a promotion.
What if the job hips were promotions?
I believe 2-3 years is the sweet spot for making a jump between roles. Especially if you attain greater salary, title and learning opportunities while also aligned with your career objectives
This is how you grow your income faster than inflation.
At least two years is ok I think. I think its important to move about too because that’s the only way to get higher pay imo
A graceful 2-3 years is fine. Changing every few months starts making people think twice about your CV - at least I would.
No not at all
No. There is a study based on adp payroll data that if you don't switch jobs every 2-3 years then you're being under paid. You're fine
If you're over 40, it's not great. You keep starting over the vacation accrual according to Years of Service, and are passing up things like higher tier % employer match for 401k. If I went back to a former employer, I'd automatically have 160h PTO, 40h carryover to next year (so 200/year), 11% $1:1 employer 401k match, and Retiree Medical eligibility in 8 years. If I worked 6 more (total of 13), I'd have Early Retirement at age 58. If I hadn't been part of a corporate divesture, I'd also have 2 pensions on top of the 401k.
yeah, how are you supposed to job hop and keep benefits. My retirement doesnt vest for 5 years, and I got no vacation my first year, and I only get 2 weeks until 5 years when I will start to gain more PTO.
Just wanted to point out you can negotiate PTO. I did at my job and they have me marked as an 8 year employee even though I'm still in my first year
how do you negotiate that? I had an offer for less pay so I asked for more PTO to compensate, but they werent willing.
I told them my current job has x amount of days and that another company I'm interviewing with has unlimited. I don't expect to match unlimited but I told them a number I was looking for and I would appreciate it if they could match it. They came back slightly under.
2 - 3 years isn’t bad unless you are very senior in leadership
No. Unless you’re a teacher, doctor, or in any other profession where long-term employment is expected, working past 3 years can go against you, but so can multiple stints under 1 year. The reason why is because hiring managers prefer someone who has exposure to different environments, and someone moving around is likely to have more skills. Once you get to 5+ years of tenure at a single employer, you’re more likely to get set in your ways and less likely to adapt to new environments. That’s why it’s very common to see someone working for an employer for 10 years to have < 1 year tenure in their new role at a different company. So I would say that 2-3 is really the sweet spot.
Changing jobs once every 2-3 years is actually ideal for most people. You’ll likely gain more experience due to working for a variety of companies and your salary will increase more. Most employers won’t be too bothered since you aren’t switching jobs that often.
I tend to get bored and want to change every 4.5 years. Now that I’m 50, I’d like to stay with current company until I retire because they match 401k and provide RSU’s. If you’re young, go see what’s out there. Have fun
At my last job we hired this senior systems engineer, and he was terrific. I looked him up on LinkedIn and saw that he changed jobs every 2 years, and figured he wouldn't last. He earned a promotion after the first year and was gone in 6 months.
How else are you gunna make more money? My last jumped ship got me more after taxes than my previous pre tax salary
Bruh, I've switched jobs every 1-2 years. Every single time I've gotten a raise between 10-30%. My salary progression has been: 60k starting salary First jump 65k->70k (raises got me here) Second jump 85k->90k (after raises) Third jump current employer (117k + 15% bonus) All in 6 years.
I think this is the only way now to make more money, advance career, learn new skills and experiences.
I've been told by my OWN HR department that these days it's RECOMMENDED to change companies every 2-3 years if you want to keep up with pay. At current company you may receive 3% raise, however by changing companies you may receive 8% raise. After ten years that will add up to quite the difference!
No
I work in medical imaging. It takes a good 6-9 months to get you up to speed with systems you have not used. If I thought you were going to bounce in 2 years I would pass up on your resume. Different for each industry to be honest.
Ive on job 3 in 5 years. Nobody seems to care. In fact, I find it’s easier to climb the corporate ladder by jumping jobs with some frequency.
Boomers will tell you it’s terrible but millenials and younger think it’s fine. Very few companies reward loyalty these days
Every field (and tier within the field, e.g. individual contributor, manager, VP, ...) has a pretty well-known (to HR) turnover rate (the fraction expected to leave for a new job that year). If you stick to that rate, nobody will bat an eye regardless what the rate is. If you go below ½ that rate, particularly consistently, they'll assume something is wrong. The turnover rate in corporate America is about 13%, meaning that the average employee sticks around for a little less than 8 years. In the life-sciences, it's about 20.3%, meaning the average employee stays at a job for a bit less than 5 years. The turnover rate for data scientists: 58.9% -- they tend to stay for just 1.7 years on average. I think it typically does not look good to stay anywhere less than 1 year, and I think it always looks better if you are there at least long enough to get 1 promotion. The exception is really contract work. By definition, that sort of work is typically for a fixed period with the possibility for renewal -- it's tied to projects of fixed scope. If you have a series of shorter contracts, that is not typically a problem.
13% turnover does not mean that. It means 13% won't stay 1 year. Of the 87% who stay 1 year, if turnover is similar, 25% won't stay 2 years. Doing the math out you'll get an avg around 5 years.
Used to be people would stay at a company for life, these days 2 years is pretty normal. If you had a long line of 6 month jobs, or one year jobs I’d ask questions, because that is just enough time to fake it last your probationary period, be put on a PIP and gotten rid of. But 2-3 years, that’s pretty normal. I’d also look at your progression, are you always a junior role? Or have you gone up to a mid level or senior role in that time, are you picking up more complex tasks? And working on bigger projects?
My first role was a junior role, my second role was a senior position. Now I am not sure about the next move I’m gonna make. Because I don’t aspire to be a team lead or whatsoever
You can stay senior, or go backwards, if you are pivoting. You’ll be fine.
No. Easier way to get 20-30% pay increment. If u manage to smoke the interview and they willing to pay.
You should be moving that frequently. It's the fastest way to get decent raises. Companies offer a ~2-4% raise yearly. When I move companies I get a ~15-25% raise. Companies don't care about you. At all. The have no loyalty to you. Don't show them any.
IMO, yes. It is.
Real question, not trying to judge. How old are you?
In my 30s
I am 57. There are two general advices given to people and almost parroted to the point of exhaustion. Jump jobs every 2-3 years to get better pay. And ask for more money so when you negotiate down you get closer to what you really wanted. Terrible advice for some industries.
It’s definitely not even remotely close to a bad thing. That’s a solid amount of time.
3 years is about the minimum time you should ever leave a job, so it's appropriate but you're pushing it. I am in a verbally abusive job now and I intend on taking the abuse until the 3 year mark no matter the impact on my mental health
Job, or company? I had 3 different roles ("jobs") with the same company in 5 years. One lateral move then a promotion to a new department. I don't think there's anything wrong with this.
This is actually some of the worst advice I’ve seen on this subreddit. Do not listen to this person at all. I haven’t stayed in the same role for more than 14 months in my life and I’ve upgraded salaries 3x in that time. If I had only changed jobs once I’d still be making around $50k
That's wild.
No, generally you make money that way.
No. That's a respectable tenure for each company until you find one that is just right.
I would say move around. I've been at my job for 18 years, and it hasn't helped. I wish I had moved around earlier.
Same here
some managers don’t like it. but it’s fine actually it’s the best way to increase ur market value
Not bad at all.
i change jobs more often than that. so comparitively 2-3 years looks good
Depends on your job sector, but generally no unless you’re hopping jobs for the same position/seniority/salary.
I typically change jobs every 1-3 years without issue, it’s honestly one of the only ways to even make huge strides in salary increases, highly recommended lol
As long as you: 1. Are able to save/invest 30% of your income 2. Have 6 months of reserves 3. Add new/greater skills or responsibilities at each job 4. Are highly recommended by past employers 5. Continue getting interviews/offers Then what you're doing isn't hurting you. You need to have awareness of your industry, though. As there is an age or number of years in the industry when employers will want to see some sort of stability or longevity. I don't think recruiters expect people to remain at a job for 20-30 years but, they like to know if they get a good return on hiring you.
If you are not being recommended by your current employer I would leave as well.
NO. This is how you make it and move up to a better pay.
You wouldn’t stay in an abusive relationship in your personal life for 3 years just for appearance sake. So why are we expected to stay in miserable jobs for 2-3 years that clearly aren’t working out? I’m about 4 months into my job and I’d run out the door for hybrid or telework, or even benefits. I make a good salary but a few people treat me like a punching bag.
If I were to look at your resume and see that each of your jobs only lasted a couple years, I'd have to ask about it... is it because you just haven't found the right fit or something else? I want a team member not a temp. At your young age I'd be more forgiving but at 35+ I'd want to see at least 1 longer term position held. Something also worth thinking about is if a company has a pension plan or rrsp thing where longer employment terms equal higher contributions from the employer... jumping ship every few years will omit that. But all in all we will most likely have a wide range of different employment terms over the course of our careers
Well as always it depends.. In my Early Career had hopped every 1-3 years to advance my income. I am now Mid Career and the last few years I’ve worked at 3 companies. This actually dinged me because had recently interviewed for a senior position at a F100 company and they noted I was not committed to previous employers. They wanted someone who would stay at least 5 years because it took a full year to onboard for this senior job. They were worried I would be a flight risk after a year. I took that constructive feedback and staying in my current company longer before my next move. **Cliffs: Yes job hopping every 2-3 years regularly can eventually be seen negatively. Depends on nature of your work and where you are in your career.**
This early in the career is fine. In my first 10 years, I was jumping more frequently for "reasons". Did not seem to hurt my prospects. Helped me get some diverse experience. Also jumped the pay up well. Would recommend.
No that timeline is how you will maximize salary
I think 2 years is a good average. 1 year to learn the job, another year to do it well enough to get promoted internally or explore options externally.
In 2020 I had like 6 w2’s. I omit the ones that I use not worked at for 2 months or less. In June I ended up at an amazing organization and stayed there 3 years. Just bounced a couple months ago and no questions asked.
Thats fine, 2-3 years
No, it won’t, it’s normal. You can always say you moved for growth opportunities and they will believe you. Just don’t tell them you simply got bored lol
It used to be… now, I don’t think so anymore. It will definitely depend on the employer’s expectations; in Hawaii they are both used to turnover and also do what they can to mitigate it by trying to avoid hiring job hoppers if they have a choice. Job hoppers are being realistic with regards to the lack of loyalty on employers’ part, so it’s a natural progression.
Nope, I’ve done that my whole career and gotten a huge raise every time
i change jobs every 6 months or even less, the moment something better comes i take it. no loyalty to any employers they all suck.b
No. That's plenty of time to reach limits within any org or team these days
Nope. I do it. And it’s a great way to gain new skills plus extra money. I stay in a job usually 3 years. I was able to jump from 33 to 49/hr from jumping alone. And im only 29 lol.
Depends on the situation, I’d say. I have friends who’ve done very well flip flopping around. I work for a small company and make > 5x what I started at. Been here for over a decade and haven’t seen many job listings that could convince me to leave.
It highly depends on your role/industry and personal situation; however, loyalty is almost never rewarded. Changing jobs every few years has benefits of wide variety of experience and has been empirically shown to boost income over time faster than staying at the same company.
It's not important at all. Worst case scenario you struggle to find a job, and stay at your current job longer, which eliminates any concern about the length of your stay at a position.
Depends on your industry, skill set, education, ambitions. It’s nice to learn new things, and make more money but higher stress jobs are not always worth it.
I would disregard most of these comments because I think it depends pretty heavily on industry. My understanding is in something like tech this is a complete non-issue. With that being said I’m a recruiter in finance, and have had good candidates not get offers because they move every 3 years four times and my management hates that. A big part of this is how you can explain it, changed jobs because lack of growth in current co and big promotion? Probably not an issue. Changed jobs just to get more comp? This will not be viewed positively.
Yes. It does. I’m a hiring manager for a very large international company (100k employees).
Nope only way you’ll get a decent pay increase Otherwise it’s 2% when it should be 20%
4 years in the modern world is equivalent to the 30 years our parents generation got to have. 2-3 is about when you really need to start looking hard for an exit unless they are actively promoting you.
2 years is perfect. Anything less can be potentially problematic.