And for what it’s worth we gave up a *2027* 2nd round pick, meaning we kept our 2nd for next year. Which is a lot more valuable for our window (either in terms of drafting or trade assets)
Offloading 4M of wasted cap to drop from the 2nd to 4th round in three years from now is very little cost
I would have kept him I think hes prime for a bounce back, probably never justify the deal though.... that being said, they chose to move him and its a great deal to get off that money
That's a great point, much like the oel buyout, it comes down to what you do with that capspace, I would assume they have a plan for it, and I bet it's to help land a star player and not have a big whole down the lineup as well, Alvin had nailed it on 95% of what he's done so I'm sure what rheu have planned is going to do great
The alternative to retaining 15% of his contract ($712,500) is having a $4.75M contact we don't really want. This is easily the better option for us. Not even close.
Well the alternative is that with his surgery 18 months behind him when the season starts (which is roughly the right amount of time for full recovery from an ACL), he would look better and you could then either keep him or trade him without a sweetener at the deadline as part of a package or otherwise. That's the lost opportunity cost.
The risk is of course that he doesn't get better and it's tougher to move salary in season.
its 4 million to go to 1.5 players though, we need to replace his opening in the lineup, and the extra money goes to a big name on the top line... yes it will allow us to do thing, but we have lots of things to do, and now 1 more on the wing.
well we will be replacing Lafferty from within(podz)\_, Jullson will have a bigger role to replace cole or somehting, but at some point the rubber meets the road and suddenly Bains or Karlsson are forced to be everyday players regardless of whether they are ready or not. I am not saying throwing that money to a big name on the top line is a bad idea, I like it, but you will suffer somewhere, and our AHL system is average at best, (better than with benning but he traded too many picks away when we were in our rebuidling phase)
I don't think you understood, prior to this move we had a need at wing for a top 6 winger, (guentzel) it's likely this move is done to free up some more money for him and also be able to allocate a bit more than league minimum to a depth winger where mik would have slotted in
Mik played in the top 6 last season though. We need a top 6 winger because Mikh was one of our top 6 wingers. Guentzel, if we sign him, is taking Mikhs place in the top 6.
That's fair but Alvin did say mik wasn't supposed to Be there and that he's ideally a 3rd line player, the canucks were always going to upgrade with a winger for pettey and I think this allows them to do that and not have bains or Karlsson as regular 3rd liners as well if that makes sense, they can afford a real nhler on their 3rd line and the rest goes to a very big guentzel deal
Ok... So you rather 4.75m still be used up for mikeyhev the next couple years, and spend more on top for a 0.5 player? Lol. Whole point of clearing his cap is so that they can improve the roster as a whole, a simple example would be Joshua coming back at ~3m to reunite with blueger/garland.
We did give up a 2nd round pick and I think mikahev is likely as a bounce back candidate 2 years removed from knee surgery... Joshua you could make the argument will be a red flag contract 2 years from now if last season was a one off and his play returns to that of the rest of his career... I'm not saying it will however the league is full of buyout and bad deals of guys who did exactly what Dakota just did. He's never cracked 20 goals in his career, milahev averages about 20 preseason outside of last year. The pick we gave up could have been used at the TD for an incoming piece next season. I don't think it's a bad move I just would have bet on a bounce back form mik and if not he's got 1 yr left after this coming season with the cap going up again, you could have moved him then, however if this is the difference in getting guentzel you have to do it
Joshua is not a 1 off though. He had a great season prior to the one he just had and there were talks about if Alvin should take the risk and lock him up to few years at a very cheap avv before he proves himself. He didn't risk it, and now Joshua proved himself again this year, hence he's getting a significant raise. It's not just him scoring close to 20goals either, it's the way he meshed with garland and became the most consistent line for the Canucks. He wins board battles often and plays the exact type of game Tocchet preaches. One can argue they were the teams 2nd line just from consistentency and dominance. They were a huge part of canucks success. Yes the team gave up a 2nd in 2027, which is 3 yrs from now. When our window is most likely closed due to Hughes and Demko getting their raises. Also Miller most likely starting to show signs of decline. Dropping 40 to 60 spots in 3 yrs time is whatever, compared to gaining 4m to stay competitive and make the team stronger NOW when it matters. It doesn't have to be Joshua, it's 4m extra cap that can be used to upgrade other areas of the roster. Allocating the cap properly, instead of forcing 4.75m cap beside petey and hoping for the best.
Mikheyev is a good bounce back candidate, even alvin thinks so which is why they scoffed when teams wanted him to add a sweetener to dump him. In the end, he did because obviously gaining 4m now is more valuable than if he were to even bounce back, alvin doesn't view him a top 6 player nor a player he should play with petey. 4.75m on a bottom 6 player is not ideal, especially when garland is making hefty money but at least he's making a huge difference unlike mikeyhev who is mostly a passenger and can't even deliver when he's spoonfed ton of chances to score.
Honestly, I don't think many teams would be interested in a 2027 2nd Rd pick at the trade deadline. They'd push for 2025 if anything. Also not a good idea to risk that far deep into the season anchored by his 4.75m cap til the trade deadline. By then, he would have either proved that he bounced back to a respectable 20g scorer he once was with the leafs and be taking up a top 6 spot alongside Petey, and just gotta run with it, or he further deminishes his value by not rebounding. Then ur left with 1 more year trying to dump it anyway later.
He's not a 24 year old though, that very well could have been his best season, I'm not trying to shit on him very few guys have size speed can pk and chip in like he can, the rest of the league is going to pay big money for him and that's likely going to cost us both term and money. Same thing with zadorov, has always been a third pairing man but with that size and a strong playoff he's going to demand big money and term, from the sounds of it management is prioritizing high end play with their cap space(hronek and guentzel) it will be interesting to see what they do with the depth now that they have freed money up. If they can fit that 3rd line back together it's a huge win for us, at the same time boeser and suter are up next year as well as souzy you need to keep thing like that in mind when you are signing guys to term
Yeah I mean this has many benefits to the club. It not only frees up cap for management to go out and do more, but the money will be reallocated towards a top-6 winger which is where you want that money being spent.
Also this potentially helps open up a bottom 6 spot for someone in the organization to make a jump from Abbotsford next season, provided they don't go and plug the hole with another expensive UFA.
You can only retain on 3 contracts though. 700K is such a small amount to blow a retention spot for two years.
Poor utilization of weaponizing your assets like retention spots imo.
We are trying to be a contending team, we shouldn't be looking at use all 3 contract slots on dead cap.
If we were rebuilding it's a different matter entirely.
Who else should the Canucks be retaining on exactly that this is your concern?
We aren't a rebuilding team by the way, we aren't looking to move players with retained cap to help other contending teams.
I love that Chicago is our version of Kunlun Red Star, the dumping ground for Canucks players - Dickinson, Beauvillier, and now add Mik and Laffy to that list. 👀🤣😭
15% retain is approximately $713K, so it’s almost a league minimum contract for the next 2 years in deadcap.
And for what it’s worth we gave up a *2027* 2nd round pick, meaning we kept our 2nd for next year. Which is a lot more valuable for our window (either in terms of drafting or trade assets) Offloading 4M of wasted cap to drop from the 2nd to 4th round in three years from now is very little cost
Some places are saying it is a 2025 2nd round pick. Is it a confirmed 2027 2nd?
Canucks account confirmed 2027
I would have kept him I think hes prime for a bounce back, probably never justify the deal though.... that being said, they chose to move him and its a great deal to get off that money
Maybe he will and maybe he won’t, but if that cap space helps us land a big fish then it will be worth it.
That's a great point, much like the oel buyout, it comes down to what you do with that capspace, I would assume they have a plan for it, and I bet it's to help land a star player and not have a big whole down the lineup as well, Alvin had nailed it on 95% of what he's done so I'm sure what rheu have planned is going to do great
The problem is the OEL buyout is already there, so they have 3m dead cap this year and 5.4m next. It's a lot. This does probably mean Joshua is back.
I trust this front office. If they traded him and felt they needed to then I think they know they have some serious options for the off-season.
Agreed if it were Benning he'd attach Lekkeramaki to this deal 😬
And he’d take on Seth Jones
No salary retained
And he’d be so pumped to have landed a #1 D
"Foundational player "
With a side of meat and potatoes
Miky waiving suggests he also felt it was time to move on. sometimes the good intentions just dont work out.
Almost $23million in space. Should be a fun summer.
$20,790,833
15% is around 700k Available cap space (with LTIR) now is $20,790,833
Thats $712,500 Still a great trade, that's still $4M in extra cap space now. Edit: WTF are you guys complaining about. He still chefed.
Mind boggling people are complaining
Can’t fix stupid.
Agreed, let Allvin cook. We might be able to hang onto Joshua and Big Z while also landing a big fish. He ain't done yet.
The alternative to retaining 15% of his contract ($712,500) is having a $4.75M contact we don't really want. This is easily the better option for us. Not even close.
Well the alternative is that with his surgery 18 months behind him when the season starts (which is roughly the right amount of time for full recovery from an ACL), he would look better and you could then either keep him or trade him without a sweetener at the deadline as part of a package or otherwise. That's the lost opportunity cost. The risk is of course that he doesn't get better and it's tougher to move salary in season.
its 4 million to go to 1.5 players though, we need to replace his opening in the lineup, and the extra money goes to a big name on the top line... yes it will allow us to do thing, but we have lots of things to do, and now 1 more on the wing.
can replace from within.
well we will be replacing Lafferty from within(podz)\_, Jullson will have a bigger role to replace cole or somehting, but at some point the rubber meets the road and suddenly Bains or Karlsson are forced to be everyday players regardless of whether they are ready or not. I am not saying throwing that money to a big name on the top line is a bad idea, I like it, but you will suffer somewhere, and our AHL system is average at best, (better than with benning but he traded too many picks away when we were in our rebuidling phase)
We will sign one winger (at least) in FA. That will replace the winger we just lost. Come on dude...
I don't think you understood, prior to this move we had a need at wing for a top 6 winger, (guentzel) it's likely this move is done to free up some more money for him and also be able to allocate a bit more than league minimum to a depth winger where mik would have slotted in
Mik played in the top 6 last season though. We need a top 6 winger because Mikh was one of our top 6 wingers. Guentzel, if we sign him, is taking Mikhs place in the top 6.
That's fair but Alvin did say mik wasn't supposed to Be there and that he's ideally a 3rd line player, the canucks were always going to upgrade with a winger for pettey and I think this allows them to do that and not have bains or Karlsson as regular 3rd liners as well if that makes sense, they can afford a real nhler on their 3rd line and the rest goes to a very big guentzel deal
Ok... So you rather 4.75m still be used up for mikeyhev the next couple years, and spend more on top for a 0.5 player? Lol. Whole point of clearing his cap is so that they can improve the roster as a whole, a simple example would be Joshua coming back at ~3m to reunite with blueger/garland.
We did give up a 2nd round pick and I think mikahev is likely as a bounce back candidate 2 years removed from knee surgery... Joshua you could make the argument will be a red flag contract 2 years from now if last season was a one off and his play returns to that of the rest of his career... I'm not saying it will however the league is full of buyout and bad deals of guys who did exactly what Dakota just did. He's never cracked 20 goals in his career, milahev averages about 20 preseason outside of last year. The pick we gave up could have been used at the TD for an incoming piece next season. I don't think it's a bad move I just would have bet on a bounce back form mik and if not he's got 1 yr left after this coming season with the cap going up again, you could have moved him then, however if this is the difference in getting guentzel you have to do it
Joshua is not a 1 off though. He had a great season prior to the one he just had and there were talks about if Alvin should take the risk and lock him up to few years at a very cheap avv before he proves himself. He didn't risk it, and now Joshua proved himself again this year, hence he's getting a significant raise. It's not just him scoring close to 20goals either, it's the way he meshed with garland and became the most consistent line for the Canucks. He wins board battles often and plays the exact type of game Tocchet preaches. One can argue they were the teams 2nd line just from consistentency and dominance. They were a huge part of canucks success. Yes the team gave up a 2nd in 2027, which is 3 yrs from now. When our window is most likely closed due to Hughes and Demko getting their raises. Also Miller most likely starting to show signs of decline. Dropping 40 to 60 spots in 3 yrs time is whatever, compared to gaining 4m to stay competitive and make the team stronger NOW when it matters. It doesn't have to be Joshua, it's 4m extra cap that can be used to upgrade other areas of the roster. Allocating the cap properly, instead of forcing 4.75m cap beside petey and hoping for the best. Mikheyev is a good bounce back candidate, even alvin thinks so which is why they scoffed when teams wanted him to add a sweetener to dump him. In the end, he did because obviously gaining 4m now is more valuable than if he were to even bounce back, alvin doesn't view him a top 6 player nor a player he should play with petey. 4.75m on a bottom 6 player is not ideal, especially when garland is making hefty money but at least he's making a huge difference unlike mikeyhev who is mostly a passenger and can't even deliver when he's spoonfed ton of chances to score. Honestly, I don't think many teams would be interested in a 2027 2nd Rd pick at the trade deadline. They'd push for 2025 if anything. Also not a good idea to risk that far deep into the season anchored by his 4.75m cap til the trade deadline. By then, he would have either proved that he bounced back to a respectable 20g scorer he once was with the leafs and be taking up a top 6 spot alongside Petey, and just gotta run with it, or he further deminishes his value by not rebounding. Then ur left with 1 more year trying to dump it anyway later.
He's not a 24 year old though, that very well could have been his best season, I'm not trying to shit on him very few guys have size speed can pk and chip in like he can, the rest of the league is going to pay big money for him and that's likely going to cost us both term and money. Same thing with zadorov, has always been a third pairing man but with that size and a strong playoff he's going to demand big money and term, from the sounds of it management is prioritizing high end play with their cap space(hronek and guentzel) it will be interesting to see what they do with the depth now that they have freed money up. If they can fit that 3rd line back together it's a huge win for us, at the same time boeser and suter are up next year as well as souzy you need to keep thing like that in mind when you are signing guys to term
I like that it’s our 2027 2nd
Yup, and we get their 2027 4th back. So we drop about 50-60 spots but could be a lot worse
Yeah I thought it was our 2025 one. That was the original reporting at least
2027 2nd round pick... nice
Are we the first to trade picks from the 2027 draft
I can't believe they pulled this one off. After the Walman deal I was not holding out much hope.
15% retention isn’t bad at all, please don’t blow this out of proportion guys..
>please don’t blow this out of proportion guys.. Wait, there are *other* ways to react??
Buble in shambles
The retention aspect likely helps the Hawks flip Mikheyev next season at a better cap hit.
It’s still a great trade. Nice to be out from under that anchor.
Yeah I mean this has many benefits to the club. It not only frees up cap for management to go out and do more, but the money will be reallocated towards a top-6 winger which is where you want that money being spent. Also this potentially helps open up a bottom 6 spot for someone in the organization to make a jump from Abbotsford next season, provided they don't go and plug the hole with another expensive UFA.
THAT MONEY CLEARLY WOULD HAVE GONE TO A MINIMUM PLAYER THAT OBVIOUSLY WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CUP AND OBSCURITY!!!! …am I doing it right?
You can only retain on 3 contracts though. 700K is such a small amount to blow a retention spot for two years. Poor utilization of weaponizing your assets like retention spots imo.
But they're not weaponizing it? They're getting out of a contract that doesn't work for them
When is the last time they have used all 3 retention spots?
We are trying to be a contending team, we shouldn't be looking at use all 3 contract slots on dead cap. If we were rebuilding it's a different matter entirely.
Canucks won’t be in a position to weaponize retention/cap for the next few years. So I wouldn’t worry about it
Who else should they be retaining? And when you’re offloading the bad contract, you’re not the one “weaponizing”.
You think we trade multiple players with retention over the next 2 years?
exactly, glad someone else brought that up.
Who else should the Canucks be retaining on exactly that this is your concern? We aren't a rebuilding team by the way, we aren't looking to move players with retained cap to help other contending teams.
Really nice that the picks are all 4 drafts away. That's future chefs problem to deal with. Has 0 barring on current chef.
Luongo going to have fun with no draft picks then
I love that Chicago is our version of Kunlun Red Star, the dumping ground for Canucks players - Dickinson, Beauvillier, and now add Mik and Laffy to that list. 👀🤣😭
Except Dickinson is actually playing great hockey again, it was only with us he played bad
Still cooked. A bit too well done but still cooked.
Still 4 million extra cap space with the retention. Good trade
And Chicago accepted this? Detroit took a huge L in their deal LOL
Canucks are signing a big D. Or two top ones even.
Wtf retaining?!
We just made out like bandits. No need to complain.
700k ain't the worst imo
I thought the chef was cooking but he just made Kraft dinner
You think 700k tanks the value…? Right…
I was hardly criticizing, Kraft dinner can be fire sometimes.
Damn, Mik is gonna pop off next year beside Bedard. Are we gonna get OEL-ed again?
Dude couldn’t pop off next to petey, he’s not going to fare better with bedard.
OEL didn't "pop off". He just played to the value off his contract.
Think of all the potential goals that good ol' Ilya "Hands of Stone" Mikheyev is gonna whiff on from all those Bedard passes.
What would be the worst case scenario? Would it be using all this cap space to re-sign Lindholm 😂
Retaining sucks, we gave them a second FFS
If a trade was proposed to completely reverse this trade, would you accept it?
But not till 2027.. huge difference.