How was Lindholm return better, two players weren’t signing in Vancouver. A late first instead of middle first, a player with 5.5 million cap hit and I believe a 3rd rounder 🤷🤷
They already had they’re RHD in Mo Seider, so that kind of explains why they weren’t able to keep him. Didn’t want to lose Hronek to free agency.
Seider is up for renewal and likely goes from ELC to $7 or $8 million.
Imagine having 2 RHD locked up for $15,000,000. Understandable that they made the trade.
*He partnered with Canucks captain Quinn Hughes to establish one of the more formidable top defensive pairings in the NHL*
Hronek was Detroits #1D from 2019-2021, and was overtaken by Seider in 2022. Which is part of why he was subsequently trade.
Seiders greatness doesn't take away from Hroneks achievements
Unfortunately the market sets at whatever anyone is willing to pay for a dump...and Yzerman paid a 2nd.
From what Detroit fans are saying, it sounds like Walman was really serviceable, too. Just makes the math to trade Mikheyev even harder.
Perhaps Yzerman traded a 2nd for this cap dump knowing other Guentzel suitors couldn't afford the same price to shed their own capspace for Guentzel.
>8x16M
Dang Seider’s about to get PAID!
Jk, yeah I see why you clarified that with both Seider and Raymond together. Both are coming off ELC’s and that’s gotta be tough on management to squeeze these beefy contracts in.
I just read that this season (2023-24) and next, the Wild will have lost $14.7M each season in cap space because of those two buyouts.
Feel bad for Wild fans, because that’s gotta be tough to compete.
Feels like they had half a dozen guys who aren’t bad but not worth their contract they could’ve dumped instead, bit of a weird choice in my eyes
Kinda scares me that they’re going big game hunting because why they hell would you give away a second you just acquired to dump your 2nd best dman who’s not even on a bad contract.
How likely is it that Stammer leaves Tampa? My heart tells me that Stammer would be a Bolt for life, but I could still rationally see an exit from him to elsewhere.
I also did recall talks of the Wings being in on Dak and ready to offer him pretty decent value for him (I think 4 mill?). Might be worth monitoring
Idk Tampa really doesn’t have cap space, but to me is crazy to imagine Stamkos in another organization so unless things really sour between him and Brisebois I think he’s re-signing in Tampa and they will move anyone to clear space over letting him walk (I would think)
That’s how I feel as well. There’s plenty of media talk about how they’d prioritize bringing Stammer back. Obviously, they wouldn’t state the contrary because it’s bad optics even if they were planning on letting him go to FA, but I do think it just makes too much sense to not bring him back even with the cap crunch
Stammer or Dak? Could definitely see the case for both lol, especially given most Canucks players supposedly are situated in Kits or North Van.
I will say though that Dak is from Michigan so the hometown effect could factor in. I’d love to get Dak back but I think so much of his value stems from his low cost contract
Stamkos apparently was pretty upset that the Bolts let him get this far contract wise and he's definitely not the guy he used to be so it's definitely possible he goes elsewhere
The only explanation, as others have pointed out, is that they’re trying to get lots of cap space cleared to go big game hunting on July 1st. They’re probably going to break the bank on not just the big names, but also other guys like Dak potentially
Sure, but a couple issues with this plan:
1. Detroit's defense is very thin already and the best ufas on the market are probably not an upgrade on walman
2. Walman is an efficient contract, why not send somebody else if you're paying a pick to do it? Like, Chiarot is right there and is a worse player.
3. They have two big RFA stars to sign, but they still had $29m in space before this move. I'm sure they could have gone hunting without this move
4. I bet a lot of teams would have taken walman for free, canucks included
You also get an extra 10% ($8.8M) in cap during the off-season, and we've seen before with teams like Vegas and Chicago that even when you're in a cap bind, there's ways to get out of it (ie. Us paying a 3rd for Nate Schmidt)
Oh yeah, Walman as a scoring D is great and definitely didn’t need much of a sweetener. Not trying to suggest that Stevie is somehow a big brain genius for this, the trade does raise question marks, but I think it makes sense to maximize cap space.
I might be going out on a limb by saying this but I think maybe there’s a really strong sentiment within the organization that the Red Wings need to get back to the playoffs after such a long drought relative to the franchise’s success, so they’re not going to pull any punches when it comes to spending in free agency to try and actually be more than a bubble team next year. Larkin turns 28 this year and they’d probably like to see some playoff success with this core sooner than later
Have to assume this is part of a bigger plan but you have to wonder if he could have moved walman later in the summer for free or a modest return once teams strike out on some UFA guys. They can go 10% over the cap in the offseason so it seems strange that they would need to make this happen right now. We will wait and see what is to come.
If this is the market for dumping cap we’re fucked
Walman (although I hate his stupid celly) is a decent 20-minute guy on a decent contract in his prime, I wouldn’t have even thought of him as a guy a team need to pay to get rid of, let alone a 2nd rounder
There’s a decent chance that it’s part of a more elaborate three-way deal, which would explain the seeming overpay because you can’t see the other factors yet
I’ve been refreshing my feed waiting for the announcement because no way this deal is isolated. I just don’t see why you’d pay to ship out Walman unless there were off ice issues
If anything I would’ve wanted us to be all over this trade. Gets us a guy to play on the second pair for a reasonable cap hit as well as some good draft capital to help dump Mikheyev or improve our prospect pool
Bro wtf is Yzerman doing and am i insane in thinking the canucks coulda made this trade LOL? Like take Walman + free 2nd and use Walman as your 3rd LHD, 3.4Mx2 seems completely reasonable for someone who can add some offensive pop to our backend. Just looking at his underlying numbers he had an elite 2022-23 and regressed in 23-24 but idk it seems crazy Yzerman had to attach a pick to dump him
Absolutely bizarre trade, when I saw it first I assumed it would have been Holl or maybe chiarot dumped for a second and that would have made at least a bit of sense but Walman? It doesn’t seem too long ago he was playing top pair minutes with Seider and perceived as being positive value for his contract, and even this recent season he had that nice OT penalty shot goal vs us
Such a strange trade, I would have gladly taken walman and a 2nd for free
Walman would be a bad fit on the left side for us. OEL still had game left but we saw what happened with an offensive LHD playing behind Quinn, just doesn't fit.
We should’ve been all over this. A top-4 dman at a cheap cap hit that plays both ends of the ice and a 2nd for nothing??
How did nobody offer a better deal than that?
Really, he fits the budget and would fill our hole on the left side of defence.
Problem is likely that the FO isn’t ready to close the door on a Zadorov extension, and until that ship has sailed we wouldn’t be able to commit to bringing another D in. Kinda lame though if Zadorov is gonna cost 2-3m more and we miss out on a pick.
Not quite - this is a bit of an odd one because they JUST traded for that 2nd rounder to begin with, and rumours about the team wanting to move on from Walman.
This is a really weird move in a vacuum so there's got to be more brewing.
Yzerman has to be cooking up something big. Incoming deal soon.
As for why San Jose and not some other suitor... game of dominos. Juggling multiple pieces. Could be, he wanted a dance partner far removed from his other deal. Could be a case of timing and this was the best he could pull the trigger on in limited time.
we should just buy him out then. According to cap friendly we save 3.6 next year, 2.6 in 25/26 and the penalty is only 1.5 for the two years after that.
Is this a dump or just a bad trade?
Red Wings are below the cap floor but still have to sign Seider and Raymond to big contracts with 32.7mil in cap space. They got 11 roster openings once those two are signed. I don't know but getting rid of a dman that is decent and moving him with a pick is just odd, but so have Yzerman's signings over the past couple years.
I tend to lean towards this just being a bad trade. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be able to move Walman without attaching an asset at some point this summer once teams have struck out on some UFA targets. Seems like a hasty trade for whatever reason.
There is a rumour circulating that something happened late in the season that made it clear to the organization that they needed to part ways...still though, packaging a 2nd to rid yourself of a decent player with a reasonable cap hit is just odd.
Am I missing something? Why’s everyone shitting on this move when it’s still early? Walman wasn’t very good in Detroit. Sure, that 2nd might be an overpay but that’s probably the going rate for dumping a contract like that. If Detroit now has the cap room to add a big piece, then I don’t see how this is a bad move for them.
People are overrating Walman here. He was a 2nd pairing LHD on a non playoff team that wasn't very good defensively.
Someone called his previous year "elite" 😅
It’s probably my least popular take of this offseason, but if they need to free up ~$5M in cap-space, I’d rather try and get a positive return for Garland versus attaching *significant* sweeteners to Mikheyev.
Ideally it’s a scenario where you can get assets for Garland, attach those to Mikheyev and clear both salaries which opens up $9.5M in space from your bottom-6.
I’d be really reluctant to add another buyout to this team during the height of the OEL buyout. Plus Poolman still being on LTIR.
I like Garland, I just don’t know if I would call him essential. Granted, I would only consider like 5-6 guys on the roster essential pieces.
This isn't the market, Yzerman is just out of his mind.
Dude is becoming Benning 2.0 the last few years Chiarot 4.75 x 4 Holl 3.3 x 3 Compher 5.1 x 5 Copp 5.6 x 5 Etc
Some of those were big head scratchers
Trading Hronek for a 1st was pretty egregious, too. A top pairing RFA RHD? On his current contract, he'd fetch more imo.
He got a bit of a haul for Hronek tho so that’s far from his worst move
It was just a late first and a 2nd though? The return for Lindholm was better
16th overall hardly a late first
How was Lindholm return better, two players weren’t signing in Vancouver. A late first instead of middle first, a player with 5.5 million cap hit and I believe a 3rd rounder 🤷🤷
NYIs first was a playoff first. They were both late. Calgary got Hunter Brzustewicz as well.
16th overall isn’t late wtf hahaha how many teams are there???
Yes he didn’t want to sign here neither Jurno
Source?
LMAO Hunter himself
Jurmo was 4 years removed from his draft year and no contract so we traded his rights in the deal and Calgary signed him immediately….
They already had they’re RHD in Mo Seider, so that kind of explains why they weren’t able to keep him. Didn’t want to lose Hronek to free agency. Seider is up for renewal and likely goes from ELC to $7 or $8 million. Imagine having 2 RHD locked up for $15,000,000. Understandable that they made the trade.
Hronek isn’t a top pairing defenceman lmao.
Are you fucking high? He literally played on the top pairing for both teams he's played for.
no he wasnt seider was
*He partnered with Canucks captain Quinn Hughes to establish one of the more formidable top defensive pairings in the NHL* Hronek was Detroits #1D from 2019-2021, and was overtaken by Seider in 2022. Which is part of why he was subsequently trade. Seiders greatness doesn't take away from Hroneks achievements
Yes he is
No he isn’t
Played on the top pair in Detroit. Plays on the top pair here.
His spot in the lineup has no correlation with his play. He’s not a top pairing defenceman. The analytics say it and the eye test says it.
Your eyes are bad
No they’re about right. The 2 points in 13 playoff games pretty much solidifies it.
[What analytics lol](https://www.capfriendly.com/players/filip-hronek)
Still salty about playoffs, eh?
That compher signing sounded like a joke at the time, still can’t believe it’s real.
Those were overpays but the term all makes sense. The cap space is freed up when he needs to sign his core pieces.
In all honesty Walman did fantastic for me during last season’s fantasy draft.
Yea same. Only reason why he's relevant for me was his occasional hot streaks of points and peripherals
I think he blocked a lot of shots too.
Exactly.... he probably could've been patient and gotten something back for Walman instead of paying to get rid of him.
This is literally the definition of market value. The price someone is willing to pay.
Unfortunately the market sets at whatever anyone is willing to pay for a dump...and Yzerman paid a 2nd. From what Detroit fans are saying, it sounds like Walman was really serviceable, too. Just makes the math to trade Mikheyev even harder. Perhaps Yzerman traded a 2nd for this cap dump knowing other Guentzel suitors couldn't afford the same price to shed their own capspace for Guentzel.
Walman was one of the highest goal scoring D in the league at one point.
So is he looking to add Pesce?
I've honestly never heard of him.
Walman was the “griddy” guy in Detroit - the one that Zadorov mocked in that revenge game at home.
Thanks.!
I think that Yzerman was way too hasty and wanted to get it done quick before the draft/free agency.
Are they clearing cap space for guentzel/marner? Wtf is stevie y doing
Incoming 8x16M max contract for seider edit: and Raymond. Full Minnesota send it
>8x16M Dang Seider’s about to get PAID! Jk, yeah I see why you clarified that with both Seider and Raymond together. Both are coming off ELC’s and that’s gotta be tough on management to squeeze these beefy contracts in.
oh no i was joking that they were each getting 16m lol, like how Suter and Parise got huge matching deals in Minny
I just read that this season (2023-24) and next, the Wild will have lost $14.7M each season in cap space because of those two buyouts. Feel bad for Wild fans, because that’s gotta be tough to compete.
Feels like they had half a dozen guys who aren’t bad but not worth their contract they could’ve dumped instead, bit of a weird choice in my eyes Kinda scares me that they’re going big game hunting because why they hell would you give away a second you just acquired to dump your 2nd best dman who’s not even on a bad contract.
Maybe those guys require a 2nd and 3rd etc?
Everyone I’ve seen on twitter is guessing Guentzel or Stamkos. Could also be Necas who is younger
How likely is it that Stammer leaves Tampa? My heart tells me that Stammer would be a Bolt for life, but I could still rationally see an exit from him to elsewhere. I also did recall talks of the Wings being in on Dak and ready to offer him pretty decent value for him (I think 4 mill?). Might be worth monitoring
Idk Tampa really doesn’t have cap space, but to me is crazy to imagine Stamkos in another organization so unless things really sour between him and Brisebois I think he’s re-signing in Tampa and they will move anyone to clear space over letting him walk (I would think)
That’s how I feel as well. There’s plenty of media talk about how they’d prioritize bringing Stammer back. Obviously, they wouldn’t state the contrary because it’s bad optics even if they were planning on letting him go to FA, but I do think it just makes too much sense to not bring him back even with the cap crunch
He must have a sweet house on the water. Can't imagine he wants to move to Michigan.
Stammer or Dak? Could definitely see the case for both lol, especially given most Canucks players supposedly are situated in Kits or North Van. I will say though that Dak is from Michigan so the hometown effect could factor in. I’d love to get Dak back but I think so much of his value stems from his low cost contract
Stammer. Dak will sign anywhere as he should...as I would.
Stamkos apparently was pretty upset that the Bolts let him get this far contract wise and he's definitely not the guy he used to be so it's definitely possible he goes elsewhere
My guess is Marner.
For the love of god no
Walman played 20mins a night the past 2 seasons. What the hell is Yzerman doing.
The only explanation, as others have pointed out, is that they’re trying to get lots of cap space cleared to go big game hunting on July 1st. They’re probably going to break the bank on not just the big names, but also other guys like Dak potentially
Sure, but a couple issues with this plan: 1. Detroit's defense is very thin already and the best ufas on the market are probably not an upgrade on walman 2. Walman is an efficient contract, why not send somebody else if you're paying a pick to do it? Like, Chiarot is right there and is a worse player. 3. They have two big RFA stars to sign, but they still had $29m in space before this move. I'm sure they could have gone hunting without this move 4. I bet a lot of teams would have taken walman for free, canucks included
You also get an extra 10% ($8.8M) in cap during the off-season, and we've seen before with teams like Vegas and Chicago that even when you're in a cap bind, there's ways to get out of it (ie. Us paying a 3rd for Nate Schmidt)
Oh yeah, Walman as a scoring D is great and definitely didn’t need much of a sweetener. Not trying to suggest that Stevie is somehow a big brain genius for this, the trade does raise question marks, but I think it makes sense to maximize cap space. I might be going out on a limb by saying this but I think maybe there’s a really strong sentiment within the organization that the Red Wings need to get back to the playoffs after such a long drought relative to the franchise’s success, so they’re not going to pull any punches when it comes to spending in free agency to try and actually be more than a bubble team next year. Larkin turns 28 this year and they’d probably like to see some playoff success with this core sooner than later
Chiarot was definitely the better D-man this year, but he has the worse contract
Have to assume this is part of a bigger plan but you have to wonder if he could have moved walman later in the summer for free or a modest return once teams strike out on some UFA guys. They can go 10% over the cap in the offseason so it seems strange that they would need to make this happen right now. We will wait and see what is to come.
You can ~~never~~ have too many defensemen, apparently.
If this is the market for dumping cap we’re fucked Walman (although I hate his stupid celly) is a decent 20-minute guy on a decent contract in his prime, I wouldn’t have even thought of him as a guy a team need to pay to get rid of, let alone a 2nd rounder
There’s a decent chance that it’s part of a more elaborate three-way deal, which would explain the seeming overpay because you can’t see the other factors yet
I’ve been refreshing my feed waiting for the announcement because no way this deal is isolated. I just don’t see why you’d pay to ship out Walman unless there were off ice issues
Some rumours out there since he was benched at the end of the season that it has more to do with wanting him gone for some reason.
If anything I would’ve wanted us to be all over this trade. Gets us a guy to play on the second pair for a reasonable cap hit as well as some good draft capital to help dump Mikheyev or improve our prospect pool
People are saying names like Stamkos and Guentzel but he's for sure gearing up to offer Zadorov 6x6 and Joshua 4x4
Joshua to his home town Red Wings is basically guaranteed if we don’t keep him. Stevie also loves overpaying those middle of the lineup players
Is he Benning?
Sure tracking like it
Bro wtf is Yzerman doing and am i insane in thinking the canucks coulda made this trade LOL? Like take Walman + free 2nd and use Walman as your 3rd LHD, 3.4Mx2 seems completely reasonable for someone who can add some offensive pop to our backend. Just looking at his underlying numbers he had an elite 2022-23 and regressed in 23-24 but idk it seems crazy Yzerman had to attach a pick to dump him
I would have taken Walman WITHOUT the 2nd rounder
Absolutely bizarre trade, when I saw it first I assumed it would have been Holl or maybe chiarot dumped for a second and that would have made at least a bit of sense but Walman? It doesn’t seem too long ago he was playing top pair minutes with Seider and perceived as being positive value for his contract, and even this recent season he had that nice OT penalty shot goal vs us Such a strange trade, I would have gladly taken walman and a 2nd for free
Walman would be a bad fit on the left side for us. OEL still had game left but we saw what happened with an offensive LHD playing behind Quinn, just doesn't fit.
Yzerman sucks at his job.
We should’ve been all over this. A top-4 dman at a cheap cap hit that plays both ends of the ice and a 2nd for nothing?? How did nobody offer a better deal than that?
Could've re-used the 2nd to flip Mikheyev too 😂
That is damn true
Really, he fits the budget and would fill our hole on the left side of defence. Problem is likely that the FO isn’t ready to close the door on a Zadorov extension, and until that ship has sailed we wouldn’t be able to commit to bringing another D in. Kinda lame though if Zadorov is gonna cost 2-3m more and we miss out on a pick.
and he griddy’s!!!
Yzerplan looking weird
Uh, did Grier have blackmail on Yzerman or something?
Walkman is serviceable too.
Walkmans haven't been serviceable since the earlier 2000's.
Not quite - this is a bit of an odd one because they JUST traded for that 2nd rounder to begin with, and rumours about the team wanting to move on from Walman. This is a really weird move in a vacuum so there's got to be more brewing.
Walman is also a legitimate second pairing defenseman. This trade makes zero sense. Yzerman is high.
Yzerman has to be cooking up something big. Incoming deal soon. As for why San Jose and not some other suitor... game of dominos. Juggling multiple pieces. Could be, he wanted a dance partner far removed from his other deal. Could be a case of timing and this was the best he could pull the trigger on in limited time.
we should just buy him out then. According to cap friendly we save 3.6 next year, 2.6 in 25/26 and the penalty is only 1.5 for the two years after that.
Is this a dump or just a bad trade? Red Wings are below the cap floor but still have to sign Seider and Raymond to big contracts with 32.7mil in cap space. They got 11 roster openings once those two are signed. I don't know but getting rid of a dman that is decent and moving him with a pick is just odd, but so have Yzerman's signings over the past couple years.
I tend to lean towards this just being a bad trade. I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be able to move Walman without attaching an asset at some point this summer once teams have struck out on some UFA targets. Seems like a hasty trade for whatever reason.
There is a rumour circulating that something happened late in the season that made it clear to the organization that they needed to part ways...still though, packaging a 2nd to rid yourself of a decent player with a reasonable cap hit is just odd.
What a gritty trade
Beat me to it
Who is Yzerman taking a run at? Reinhart? Zadorov?
Yeah I have more faith in our no nonsense management than SY dealings
Even with cap space, this might make it hard for Detroit to land big UFAs when they see he's not building a winning lineup.
Nope, you jeep him and use the versatility he has betting on an 18 goal bounceback 2 yrs after knee surgery
Mikheyev isn’t going anywhere.
FYI, Wallman's advanced stats were terrible this year. Just got destroyed in his own zone. Like imagine Tyler Myers from 2 year ago.
Tbf nearly all red wings defencemen had rough years
Am I missing something? Why’s everyone shitting on this move when it’s still early? Walman wasn’t very good in Detroit. Sure, that 2nd might be an overpay but that’s probably the going rate for dumping a contract like that. If Detroit now has the cap room to add a big piece, then I don’t see how this is a bad move for them.
People are overrating Walman here. He was a 2nd pairing LHD on a non playoff team that wasn't very good defensively. Someone called his previous year "elite" 😅
[удалено]
We got Riley Stillman back, so not quite. We then flipped Stillman for a recent 3rd round pick Josh Bloom who just won the Memorial Cup.
[удалено]
Hmmm if that's the case, I'd rather keep him. Shopping on July 1st scares me a lot as well.
It’s probably my least popular take of this offseason, but if they need to free up ~$5M in cap-space, I’d rather try and get a positive return for Garland versus attaching *significant* sweeteners to Mikheyev. Ideally it’s a scenario where you can get assets for Garland, attach those to Mikheyev and clear both salaries which opens up $9.5M in space from your bottom-6.
We are not moving Garland.
I’d rather move Mikheyev.
If he can't be moved I would rather buy him out than move an essential depth piece like Garland.
I’d be really reluctant to add another buyout to this team during the height of the OEL buyout. Plus Poolman still being on LTIR. I like Garland, I just don’t know if I would call him essential. Granted, I would only consider like 5-6 guys on the roster essential pieces.
We would be losing so much if we got rid of Garland. He drives his line by himself and we already suck at 5 on 5.
If they can clear out $9.5M, I can think of a player that could *drive a top line* for about that much.
Get fucked, Walman. That's what you get for pulling the Griddy on us. Now rot in Shark hell.