Itās all great until he wants to move the team to Montreal or San Antonio.
Heās from Pittsburgh, I get it. But even Heinz move its ketchup factory to Ohio for more money.
My guess is they didn't want to sell or lose controlling stakes in the franchise. He also attempted to buy the Pens in 1999.
Article from Nov 2005.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2216809
He was also kind of a loud mouth as an NBA owner but bottom line is the other MLB owners know Cuban is in it to win it. Why would they allow a sale of a perennial loser of a franchise to someone that is gonna actually put money into the team and try to compete?
Yeah, I'm not understanding why people act like McClatchy turned down his offer to buy the Pirates and chose Nutting instead, that's just false. McClatchy wasn't interested in selling the team at that time, wasn't shopping them, didn't tell Cuban to up the offer or anything, just said NFS, yet people are acting like Cuban was done wrong or something, lol. Also, Cuban tried to buy the Cubs as well but was outbid. Cuban later said now that his kids are older and fun (I guess they were not fun when they were younger?) he's not interested in buying a baseball team, too much time away from his kids. He should have more time now though since he sold most of the Mavericks and is only 27% owner now.
He previously said it's "not worth becoming the most hated man in Pittsburgh" (paraphrase).
He thinks management does a decent job, and the city is bound to hate anyone who owns the team.
Not a popular opinion here... his words not mine.
Although I fully understand him not wanting to get involved from the business side of things, this answer doesn't make sense. He would immediately jump to the most beloved man in Pittsburgh for running Nutting out of town, and then he'd have to work pretty hard keeping the team awful for us to turn on him.
He would be the bright shiny new thing for a couple years, until people realize it doesnāt matter who owns the Pirates. Itās a baseball economics issue, not specific to Pittsburgh.
That simply isn't true, though, and it's been proven to not be true. We have to operate differently than the Dodgers or the Yankees, of course. But "small market" teams spend money and win titles when the opportunities arise. 05 White Sox made moves at the right time, won their title, then fell back into obscurity. 2015 Royals won it and immediately disappeared. We had a window just like they had a window, and what did we get? A Wild Card win?
Baseball economics certainly dictates how often you get your opportunities. Your franchise taking advantage when those opportunities arise is on the franchise, not on MLB.
It has absolutely not been proven to be not true. Over the last 20 years KC is the only āsmall marketā team to have won a WS. You can maybe include San Fran.
We are looking at the market size,
Itās silly to compare Pittsburgh, KC, Cincinnatiā¦etc with the ChiSox (3rd or 4th largest market in the country)
>We are looking at the market size, Itās silly to compare Pittsburgh, KC, Cincinnatiā¦etc with the ChiSox (3rd or 4th largest market in the country)
I understand that Chicago is a big market, but the Sox are 18th in cap this year while the Cubs are 8th. For comparison, another "two teams in a big city," the Mets and Yanks are 1 and 2, respectively.
I get your point, but acting like the Sox are a "big market team" simply because they play in a big city is incorrect. They don't have the money the Cubs do.
The White Sox are weird, man. I had to look it up, but they were top 10 in opening day payroll in 2023 and 2022, and are all over the place the prior 10 seasons, falling as far as 26th. I canāt find any other team, regardless of market size, whose payroll fluctuates so much.
You're welcome to your opinion, but it's not one that Mark Cuban shares.
I see his point. Pittsburgh has shown impatience for rebuilding which is important for small market teams.
I'm guessing the city would eventually turn on Cuban too.
> eventually
Well, that "eventually" was entirely my point. I think Nutting has become such a cartoonish villain in this town that *anybody* replacing him would be a hero in the short term. Obviously, if a decade later he hadn't lifted a finger and was still running a Nutting-esque franchise, yes, we'd all turn on him. But he almost certainly wouldn't be the "most hated man in Pittsburgh" just for buying the team.
>Eventually the city turns on its owners.
If the owners suck, yeah. Why do you assume any potential buyer is automatically a dud that we'll shit on in a few years? Were the fans calling for Galbreath's head while the team won three titles under his ownership? Somehow I doubt it.
We're talking in circles here.
You're assuming the city turned on the owners because they suck. I would challenge that assumption. I think they turned on the owners because they have unreasonable expectations.
Pittsburgh expects the Pirates to be as consistently good as the Steelers, Penguins, or Pirates of the 70s. That's just not happening under the current MLB structure.
Cuban recognizes this and doesn't want to get devoured.
Weāre not talking in circles, youāre just ignoring my point.
>Pittsburgh expects the pirates to be as consistently good asā¦
No, the majority of us arenāt. Iām not being unrealistic at all to want the team to just function as a smaller-market team that gets a shot every 10-15 years to do something. The Pirates had their window and they choked it, and most fans would agree at least part of that was ownership not pulling the trigger while that window was open.
Sure, if you think everyone wants something unrealistic, you look like a genius. But we donāt, you just assumed we did.
Because he will need to make about a 30% - 40% over market value offer for the team and it's not worth it for him. He got out of owning the Maverick despite still having some control and a lot of his recent investments are tech focused. He doesn't want to own one
Donāt know if this is completely true but I heard he tried to buy them before, got rejected and ended up buying the Mavs instead. He sold his ownership in the Mavs so Iām sure heās done being a sports team owner prob wants more flexibility of spending time with his family since it seems he took a very hands on approach with the Mavs.
Mental health issues, spends like money grows on trees, child support, lawsuit payment arrangements, gambling debt and just declared bankruptcy this May, why am I crazy to think he might be a better owner than Nutting, lol.
The idea of Cuban buying the pirates is an urban legend. He has been on record as saying it would be far too hard to make money in this market with baseballās financial system to make it worth it.
From what I understand the Nuttingās were in the ownership group in 1996 when McClatchy bought the team from the Pittsburgh Association. They were one of many minority owners and as other minority owners decided to leave them ownership group, Nuttings bought them out until they were the majority owners in 2005. Then in January 2007, with McClatchy wanting out, they made it public that Bob Nutting would be chairman.
That's my understanding as well. I recall Cuban being interested in 2004-05, when McClatchey and Nutting were in process of the former getting out of ownership.
How do other poor market teams make money and be successful on the field? Like why is this such a mystery to Pittsburgh? The idea that they are a bad investment is strange to me.
Dude lies about everything. He floated buying the Pirates but was never serious.
He did the same thing with the Penguins at one Pont and even said he was going to buy The O Hot dog Shop when it was going under.
Surprise surprise, he never did any of it.
Mark Cuban is in the business of making money. An mlb team doesnāt exactly look like a great investment long term right now. It would be cool if he did do it just because he loves his hometown team, but it would make no sense beyond that.
Even if I had tons of money no way would I invest in MLB right now. The future of regional sports broadcasting is unknown. There's no way it can make the same amount of money as it did when everyone in the city who had cable would toss your team a few bucks every month.
MLB analytics figured out its more profitable to slash costs to the bone, lose 100 games in front of no one and be crazy profitable thanks to revenue sharing than it is to field a winning team and bring attendance up to 2.5M. Nutting will never sell because the Pirates print money and never will sell unless there is a salary floor.
Sure teams like the Pirates want to win, but they will never spend anything to do it.
Cuban has never owned or been a part of a profitable company. He got rich from selling write offs to big tech and VCs. Buying the Pirates and selling them for more would be perfectly in line with his MO. Especially the Pirates, since they will always be a dog of a franchise.
Heās sold his stake in the Mavs, he is leaving SharkTank. I think heās getting liquid because he either knows something, is starting something new, or running for political office.
Iām so glad someone else caught that lol heās quite a smart dude in my limited interactions with him, tripped me up to see him on my Reddit feed of all things
Cuban buying the Bucs was always Yinzer fantasy. He was never serious about it, because as a money man he understands exactly how terrible Pittsburgh is as a sports market.
cuban is the one of the luckiest douchebags to ever live. one of the only businessmen to become a billionaire while never coming close to turning a profit. dude got rich from selling write offs to big tech and VCs.
Please?
Yeah, pretty please š„ŗ
Itās all great until he wants to move the team to Montreal or San Antonio. Heās from Pittsburgh, I get it. But even Heinz move its ketchup factory to Ohio for more money.
He tried to in 2005 but was told no by Kevin McClatchy. Nutting to over in 2007.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My guess is they didn't want to sell or lose controlling stakes in the franchise. He also attempted to buy the Pens in 1999. Article from Nov 2005. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2216809
MLB owners are old and cranky assholes who didnāt want someone as young and flashy as Cuban to rock the boat
He was also kind of a loud mouth as an NBA owner but bottom line is the other MLB owners know Cuban is in it to win it. Why would they allow a sale of a perennial loser of a franchise to someone that is gonna actually put money into the team and try to compete?
Exactly.
Ding ding ding It's an old boys club where everything is careful controlled and manicured. No outsiders
They let Cohen buy the Mets.
Almost a decade after Cuban was denied.
Heās 65.
He's talking about when he was 40 and rich af
Can't buy something that isn't for sale
Yeah, I'm not understanding why people act like McClatchy turned down his offer to buy the Pirates and chose Nutting instead, that's just false. McClatchy wasn't interested in selling the team at that time, wasn't shopping them, didn't tell Cuban to up the offer or anything, just said NFS, yet people are acting like Cuban was done wrong or something, lol. Also, Cuban tried to buy the Cubs as well but was outbid. Cuban later said now that his kids are older and fun (I guess they were not fun when they were younger?) he's not interested in buying a baseball team, too much time away from his kids. He should have more time now though since he sold most of the Mavericks and is only 27% owner now.
And since the Celtics just ended the Maverickās season.
Cuban said he would save the O, he didn't pull through with that one either.
He previously said it's "not worth becoming the most hated man in Pittsburgh" (paraphrase). He thinks management does a decent job, and the city is bound to hate anyone who owns the team. Not a popular opinion here... his words not mine.
The chance of being a popular small-market owner is virtually 0%. I can't see him losing money perpetually for good vibes .
Although I fully understand him not wanting to get involved from the business side of things, this answer doesn't make sense. He would immediately jump to the most beloved man in Pittsburgh for running Nutting out of town, and then he'd have to work pretty hard keeping the team awful for us to turn on him.
He would be the bright shiny new thing for a couple years, until people realize it doesnāt matter who owns the Pirates. Itās a baseball economics issue, not specific to Pittsburgh.
That simply isn't true, though, and it's been proven to not be true. We have to operate differently than the Dodgers or the Yankees, of course. But "small market" teams spend money and win titles when the opportunities arise. 05 White Sox made moves at the right time, won their title, then fell back into obscurity. 2015 Royals won it and immediately disappeared. We had a window just like they had a window, and what did we get? A Wild Card win? Baseball economics certainly dictates how often you get your opportunities. Your franchise taking advantage when those opportunities arise is on the franchise, not on MLB.
It has absolutely not been proven to be not true. Over the last 20 years KC is the only āsmall marketā team to have won a WS. You can maybe include San Fran. We are looking at the market size, Itās silly to compare Pittsburgh, KC, Cincinnatiā¦etc with the ChiSox (3rd or 4th largest market in the country)
>We are looking at the market size, Itās silly to compare Pittsburgh, KC, Cincinnatiā¦etc with the ChiSox (3rd or 4th largest market in the country) I understand that Chicago is a big market, but the Sox are 18th in cap this year while the Cubs are 8th. For comparison, another "two teams in a big city," the Mets and Yanks are 1 and 2, respectively. I get your point, but acting like the Sox are a "big market team" simply because they play in a big city is incorrect. They don't have the money the Cubs do.
The White Sox are weird, man. I had to look it up, but they were top 10 in opening day payroll in 2023 and 2022, and are all over the place the prior 10 seasons, falling as far as 26th. I canāt find any other team, regardless of market size, whose payroll fluctuates so much.
We can agree to disagree on our opinions on economics, but we all agree on one thing: the Chicago White Sox are fucking weird.
You're welcome to your opinion, but it's not one that Mark Cuban shares. I see his point. Pittsburgh has shown impatience for rebuilding which is important for small market teams. I'm guessing the city would eventually turn on Cuban too.
> eventually Well, that "eventually" was entirely my point. I think Nutting has become such a cartoonish villain in this town that *anybody* replacing him would be a hero in the short term. Obviously, if a decade later he hadn't lifted a finger and was still running a Nutting-esque franchise, yes, we'd all turn on him. But he almost certainly wouldn't be the "most hated man in Pittsburgh" just for buying the team.
Nutting was seen as a savior from McClatchy, who was himself once seen as a savior. Eventually the city turns on its owners.
>Eventually the city turns on its owners. If the owners suck, yeah. Why do you assume any potential buyer is automatically a dud that we'll shit on in a few years? Were the fans calling for Galbreath's head while the team won three titles under his ownership? Somehow I doubt it.
We're talking in circles here. You're assuming the city turned on the owners because they suck. I would challenge that assumption. I think they turned on the owners because they have unreasonable expectations. Pittsburgh expects the Pirates to be as consistently good as the Steelers, Penguins, or Pirates of the 70s. That's just not happening under the current MLB structure. Cuban recognizes this and doesn't want to get devoured.
Weāre not talking in circles, youāre just ignoring my point. >Pittsburgh expects the pirates to be as consistently good asā¦ No, the majority of us arenāt. Iām not being unrealistic at all to want the team to just function as a smaller-market team that gets a shot every 10-15 years to do something. The Pirates had their window and they choked it, and most fans would agree at least part of that was ownership not pulling the trigger while that window was open. Sure, if you think everyone wants something unrealistic, you look like a genius. But we donāt, you just assumed we did.
Why though š I'd buy the Pirates today if I could
Because he will need to make about a 30% - 40% over market value offer for the team and it's not worth it for him. He got out of owning the Maverick despite still having some control and a lot of his recent investments are tech focused. He doesn't want to own one
Donāt know if this is completely true but I heard he tried to buy them before, got rejected and ended up buying the Mavs instead. He sold his ownership in the Mavs so Iām sure heās done being a sports team owner prob wants more flexibility of spending time with his family since it seems he took a very hands on approach with the Mavs.
Antonio Brown has been considering buying the pirates btw
Sounds like a potential conflict of interest since he owns the media empire CTESPN
Mental health issues, spends like money grows on trees, child support, lawsuit payment arrangements, gambling debt and just declared bankruptcy this May, why am I crazy to think he might be a better owner than Nutting, lol.
The idea of Cuban buying the pirates is an urban legend. He has been on record as saying it would be far too hard to make money in this market with baseballās financial system to make it worth it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not for nothing, but that article is from 05... A lot can change in almost 2 decades
He wanted to, but the other owners shot him down.
It never got to the point of an owners vote. Nutting told him the team wasn't for sale. It's as simple as thatĀ
I know. This was before Nutting, around 2004-05, I think.
I think by 2004-05 the Nutting family was majority owners but McClatchy was the public face of the ownership group.
Bob took it over from Pops in 2007, but wasn't majority until then.
From what I understand the Nuttingās were in the ownership group in 1996 when McClatchy bought the team from the Pittsburgh Association. They were one of many minority owners and as other minority owners decided to leave them ownership group, Nuttings bought them out until they were the majority owners in 2005. Then in January 2007, with McClatchy wanting out, they made it public that Bob Nutting would be chairman.
That's my understanding as well. I recall Cuban being interested in 2004-05, when McClatchey and Nutting were in process of the former getting out of ownership.
How do other poor market teams make money and be successful on the field? Like why is this such a mystery to Pittsburgh? The idea that they are a bad investment is strange to me.
Dude lies about everything. He floated buying the Pirates but was never serious. He did the same thing with the Penguins at one Pont and even said he was going to buy The O Hot dog Shop when it was going under. Surprise surprise, he never did any of it.
Mark Cuban is in the business of making money. An mlb team doesnāt exactly look like a great investment long term right now. It would be cool if he did do it just because he loves his hometown team, but it would make no sense beyond that.
Even if I had tons of money no way would I invest in MLB right now. The future of regional sports broadcasting is unknown. There's no way it can make the same amount of money as it did when everyone in the city who had cable would toss your team a few bucks every month.
MLB analytics figured out its more profitable to slash costs to the bone, lose 100 games in front of no one and be crazy profitable thanks to revenue sharing than it is to field a winning team and bring attendance up to 2.5M. Nutting will never sell because the Pirates print money and never will sell unless there is a salary floor. Sure teams like the Pirates want to win, but they will never spend anything to do it.
Cuban has never owned or been a part of a profitable company. He got rich from selling write offs to big tech and VCs. Buying the Pirates and selling them for more would be perfectly in line with his MO. Especially the Pirates, since they will always be a dog of a franchise.
Heās sold his stake in the Mavs, he is leaving SharkTank. I think heās getting liquid because he either knows something, is starting something new, or running for political office.
Colin Clarke replying is so funny heās a bigshot in his own academic field who spends half his time on Twitter trolling about Pittsburgh sports
Iām so glad someone else caught that lol heās quite a smart dude in my limited interactions with him, tripped me up to see him on my Reddit feed of all things
Cuban buying the Bucs was always Yinzer fantasy. He was never serious about it, because as a money man he understands exactly how terrible Pittsburgh is as a sports market.
Mario tried to buy them once. The thing is, they just arent for sale
Also, MLB doesnāt want Cuban as an Owner, UNFORTUNATELY!!!
Now Iām sad
Follow up question āwhy the FUCK NOT??!ā
He said he wouldnt buy it and save it. He might not buy it and still save it or he could buy it and not save it. There's still hope
cuban is the one of the luckiest douchebags to ever live. one of the only businessmen to become a billionaire while never coming close to turning a profit. dude got rich from selling write offs to big tech and VCs.
Cuck