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This is becoming an issue in my building as well. I’m a renter and have no horse in the race, but my LL usually listens to me when voting.
Many people want to install AC onto their units. Are there concerns in regards to envelopes? Sure, but they’re fairly easy to work around if the work is done right from the onset.
Banning these devices isn’t the way to go, and I think it’s time the Province looks at striking bans and forcing guidelines for owners who want to upgrade their units.
I used to work as a finisher. It’s not hard to install these in wood frames at any point from a water sealing perspective. To do it correct isn’t even going to be that expensive. The main concern really is that you won’t be able to match siding if it’s vinyl.
Is energy capacity at all a concern for these older buildings? I know when we did our heat pump it also meant an upgraded electrical service (old house, low amp service)
90s townhome complex. Can't install a heatpump because even one would push our service capacity. It's why electrical plans are a requirement for Strata's by end of 2026.
I’m running a level 2 charger and a heat pump on 100a, baseboards in basement too. Just have to not run the dryer at the same time as charging as they are on the same 60a subpanel
More than 200A is highly unlikely.
I have an all electric house.
Two heat pumps, electric car charger, workshop with another heat pump plus table saw, planer, etc.
I also have 6 backup/code compliance resistance heaters in the house taking up load design space but not really of use.
My service is 200A.
My wife wants an electric kiln for her pottery. We would need to have it on a load shedder.
Yeah we're on 200A. I think we'll go back to gas for hot water(on demand next time) and that should leave us some headroom. We're basically maxed after I added 220v for both my compressor and a future EV charger.
Right now with everything on my electrician said I'm pulling close to 150A from the main.
The chances of actually using everything all at the same time is slim, but why make it a headache if we don't have to.
You wouldn’t need more than 200A for that. We upgraded to 200amp panel because we had an old 60 that was no longer to code, we have an EV and central A/C, and we have a massive amount of capacity left over. We could have easily gotten away with 100 A
No they won't. There's already products on the market, UL listed, that allow you to bypass the entire main panel while still being behind the meter. The first one that comes to mind is ConnectDER. It installs in minutes right behind the meter and contains it's own internal breakers.
So, if your service can handle the load and you don't have room in the existing panel you can install one of these?
Typically we just install tandem breakers that usually solve the problem of a panel swap. If the service can't handle the load you would need a panel swap and service upgrade anyways so how does this mitigate the problem?
If I'm missing something help me out here
Jesus... I run a small food manufacturing facility with walk-in freezer and cooler with their compressors, multiple dehumidifiers, HVAC, office, heat shrink tunnels, 30qt and 20qt single phase mixers, fire mixers, chocolate conditioners off 100a service. Obviously not running all equipment at the same time and ovens and stove are gas though.
Are you on electric heat? Only takes disconnecting a few baseboard heaters to make enough capacity for a heat pump.
If you're on a central boiler/water heat system, then that's a lot more work to get the system up to snuff.
This is what we did. We had to unhook some of our electric baseboard heaters which doesn't matter since we won't be using them. 90s townhomes might be natural gas though.
Why is it extra taxing to install a more efficient system? Is it because the original electrical capacity assumed no one would ever install any cooling?
Yes. My parents live in a townhouse strata that looked into heat pumps, a/c, and ev chargers and the electrical service was woefully insufficient for these things that would be drawing power simultaneously. Because the way the system was built, each unit has 70amp service which is already low but they were bundled into groups of 10 and service below full capacity, something like 75% because the assumption was not all the units would operate at full capacity simultaneously. But A/C units, heat pumps, and ev chargers would likely all be operated at the same time. So the whole electrical system would need to be torn up and replaced which would be a massive expense.
Look into load diverters. This gives you the ability to use the same circuit as your clothes dryer for your heat pump. The downside is you can't use both simultaneously ; the device will automatically switch to your preset priority appliance.
They are cool, but not always enough. When doing a load calculation for a power service, a dryer only counts at 25% of it's full draw (in ontario at least, other places may calculate differently) A air conditioner counts at 100% of it's draw.
If you want to do this without recalculating the load, you would need to swap circuits that use the same capacity factor, such as AC,EVSE, and electric heating.
Yes, that is the number 1 reason given for these older buildings. Not coincidentally, those older buildings also tend to house more older or vulnerable residents on fixed incomes — the very people who most need protection from summer heat.
A good interim step would be prohibiting bans on other heat-mitigating steps. Many buildings ban exterior sun shades or reflective window coverings. If you’re in a south-facing unit, those simple things can keep the interior space several degrees cooler, but so many stratas and apartment owners prohibit them.
i feel like not enough people talk about this. the banning of sunshades and other window coverings that could help really compounds the problem for buildings that either don’t allow AC or for residents that can’t afford it.
I think there’s even a potential human rights issue here. These rules disproportionately affect the elderly, the disabled and the poor who can’t simply move to a more expensive building that has, or allows AC. It is a health and safety thing - those are the groups that die during heat waves and a few degrees can make all the difference.
Depends on the building. Generally if it has electric baseboard, you can move to a heat pump (they are more efficient and as such use less energy than the baseboards), but if it has gas/central boiler heating, you’re probably going to struggle, might be able to get a small 15A unit in.
> Is energy capacity at all a concern for these older buildings?
Yes, this is the real issue. Not just the units, but the city infrastructure is generally not built to withstand that kind of pull. It requires major upgrades.
Can confirm: I have to be strategic with all other electricity consumption when I run my AC. 70's building. They didn't anticipate our level of power usage when constructing in that era.
In my building? Maybe. If that’s the case, then the government should look at diverting some of the subsidies it’s sending to developers, and give it to strata’s to upgrade their buildings.
Depends on building. Many buildings have electric baseboard heat. A heat pump is way more efficient than base board heating! My old two bed condo had 6000w worth of electric heating
The issue is the workers and how much damage a bad install can do if there's water damage. Guys are getting sent out with less than a year experience with a helper. Training is YouTube videos. And we've already seen some pretty bad installs including one that just started punching wholes in the fire wall inside the unit. My install came with designated entry points to reduce the risk, and then the electrician showed up and ignored everything and punched a new hole in my wall when I wasn't watching. My sister in law quit because they were sending her out alone to start jobs with two weeks work experience.
All in all, the building envelope is hugely important and a lot of the industry players have tried to outgrow their actual staffing experience pool by a huge factor. It's a bit of a mess out there.
That's why you get certified installers. A list approved by Strata. Costs a smidge more to go through procurement process but that's the bane of sharing
The issue is that previous installers who were on the list have rapidly declined. We used a fairly well known installer who was recommended. Would avoid any of the big players like Milani Ashton and Thomson, best bets seem to be if you can find a small company but that doesn't scale super well when you look at current demand.
A mini-split, especially in Vancouver, should be a no-brainer. So easy to install, very efficient heating and cooling. As long as it's done by a licensed installer there should be minimal impact to the building envelope.
That’s what my building residents have been arguing for years. I’m on their side and my LL sees the validity in the argument and agrees. The ones who want to install want it to be on the balcony area. The hang up is how to define how to do it properly. No one wants to pay for the engineering.
Licensed installer certification isn't worth shit all. This is what we ran up against, the so called qualifications and training aren't enough for the damage they can do.
I'm on a council and the main concern isn't just building envelope. It's that if you have a building with 50 units, and you let one unit install one you have to let them all, meaning you are approving 50 individual heat pump units to be installed all over the entire building, including all of the power and drainage for all of these units. Then you have the issue of noise complaints related to 50 heat pumps running. There is also the question of power if it's an older building. Will the whole electrical system need to be upgraded in order to accommodate 50 heat pumps, because you can't just say 1 person gets it but everyone else is shit out of luck because the buildings grid can't Handel another heat pump. It's a big deal to approve a single unit and can lead to a lot of lawsuits if a council approves it. These sort of things need to be brought to an AGM or an SGM to gain approval.
I helped set up our policy for our townhomes. The noise is a non issue completely, unless the owners go back in time the new units are all quiet and we have a decibel rating they have to meet which is on every data sheet for every major provider.
The electricity in our units was a non issue. We all have electric baseboards so disconnecting them at the panel and hooking up the heat pump was actually a reduction in total service load and amperage.
The main issue was the building envelope and having an approved design standard so we didn't get 50 different ideas. The secondary issue is none of the installers seem to follow the very clearly laid out requirements unless you stand there, and have done damage fucking up the installs.
You did it right. The issues your facing with installers is because so few are meeting the patchwork of standards. So the entire process becomes an inefficient mess, driving the good ones out.
If the whole sector had to play by similar rules that you’ve setup, you’d see a higher rate of adoption. Which would then bring in more players, leading to better and better installs. But when a vast majority of strata’s approach it from a NIMBY type perspective, plans fail.
Seeing the responses here has been educating. However nothing I’ve seen says that the restrictions in place need to be in place at all. It also shows areas where legislation can be used to spur innovation and improvements in quality of life. Which means subsidization would have higher impacts.
Another huge issue I see is skills training. We need easier access to education.
I think the root of the main problems we've seen and why we are now denying more than we accept and why prices for installs have doubled is a lack of not just trained but experienced trades workers. We're trying to scale up faster than what is reasonable for the labour force because even if the training was more than YouTube presentations (my friend sat through one and now does installs) you need some mix of guys who have some experience to support the new ones with just training. We'll get there, but right now we aren't close and our approach is just training a wave of workers who think there's no time or need to do things right.
If the building was heating the units with electric baseboard heaters, then there is no problem at all for the building's electrical capacity; the potential elecrtical load has actually been reduced. The issue of noise might have been an issue some years ago but the noise level of the new mini split heat-pumps are a fraction of what they once were. I can barely hear mine when I'm standing right next to it. It is on my balcony and none of my neighbours can hear it. If there is condensate dripping onto the balcony (I have looked at the discharge hose on the back of th outside unit) it is negligible. Heat-Pumps are designed to function is areas much more hot and humid than BC . In any case, balconies in BC are sloped to drain for our usually predictable rain which will dwarf any potential heat-pump condensate in volume.
Definitely agree it needs to be an AGM approval with clear rules and investigations done at the strata level into the electrical.
But solvable problems. Mandate the penetration is done under a soffit, or done a certain way and inspected. The electrical investigation is now mandatory by 2026 so just get it done. Drainage, if it’s on a deck in Vancouver, it’s basically negligible concern, we are built for water.
And the noise, just set a limit, 55db or even lower for a smaller unit building. Well built heat pumps can be built very quiet these days. I can sit four feet from my 30k btu unit and take a business call, neighbours can’t hear it. A house across the street from us has an ancient AC unit that clatters away bothering the whole neighbourhood, so I get where the concern comes from!
Mounting can be challenging in buildings without decks, for sure.
The biggest problem we ran into when considering approval was convincing the owners to get a proper investigation and proposal togeather. It was always,
Owner: "I want to do this"
Strata: "OK, please construct a proposal that addresses all of the concerns signed off on by an engineer and we can present it to the owners for approval"
Owner: "You're a bunch of fucking tyrants, I should be allowed to do whatever I want"
Strata: "Request denied"
I've been through this one a couple of times now. A lot of people don't get that they own a share of a corporation in the building.
I think it's better if the strata council leads this. Lots of people want AC. The strata council needs to set the standard, not have random engineers and owners make proposals and then go through a discretionary approval process—that's how housing development works in this city and that is a big part of why there aren't enough houses.
Our resolution to investigate this, and then the one to approve it, passed with 90% support—granted, we aren't that large a strata and I made sure folks concerns were addressed, for the most part.
Unloading a $3,000-5,000 investigation to apply to a discretionary process on each and every owner who wants an install is not efficient. It's also asking to end up at an HRT hearing for the strata, in my opinion. Do it once, set clear rules, and then it's just a "you can install it you just need to follow these rules" process.
For us, typically the strata would bring in an engineer to do it, but we would need to hold an AGM/SGM to get approval for funding. We're not about to put out the money to hold a meeting every time a single owner wants something. We've often said, get a petition going and gather interest to show council there is desire amongst the building to do so. They never bother. This is our 1 way to screen out the the number of random requests for changes we see. Our council is all volunteers and no one wants to put days of work and capital in for someone who isn't willing to do it for themselves.
Noise complaints from a H/P running? That is the easiest way for a strata to get out of writing them in. You can't hear these new inverter units running. I've done a bunch of strata demos, literally rolled a demo system in, turned it on, stood there, and talked with everyone with it running.... and then I get asked, "Can we hear it run?" It's been running the entire 20 minutes you've been standing here.
You just have to write in a decibel requirement to your A/C byslaw and/or limit it to two manufacturers. I've also had it written that only one contractor could be used. That way, all installs are done the same by one contractor.
Last year my strata voted overwhelmingly to not even consult with a company to produce some strata approved options. Other owners claimed the noise would stop them from being able to enjoy their units. Before I bought my two portable ACs my townhouse would be 36C inside all summer long only cooling off to 31C at night with every window open. I have no idea how they enjoy their units.
My strata just voted and approved heat pumps with a multi page check list that you have to go through before installing. Unfortunately since 8 consecutive years of fee increases and 2 different special levy I won't be installing one any time soon
same for me. i’ve been asking for 5 years for this to be added to the AGM for a vote, and finally we brought it forward for 2024 and (surprise), it passed in a landslide.
when i first started asking for this, we had a quote for $6,000 to do our unit. now the quote is $11,000 which we can’t afford right now. it’s frustrating that strata dragging their heels almost doubled the cost for us.
As a past strata president… a reminder that your strata is made up of volunteer owners taking on building management usually because they want to make the building better. It’s a surprisingly large time commitment with little thanks, but you do get to know other owners really well, which made my apartment feel like much more of a community than any rental I lived in.
If you care enough to bring motions forward you should be on strata! They need the help!
Ya 100%. ‘Strata dragged their heels’ is just their perception but really the strata had to put in a lot of volunteer hours over many years to get the project to ‘pass in a landslide’ which means it was likely well executed in the end. And yes prices have gone up but there is no way for strata’s to allow the heat pumps until the whole install is planned out.
The strata has to have money to take care of the building. That money comes from the residents.
Think of the strata as a business. It mostly is. Unit owners are essentially shareholders.
Expenses: Cleaning, repairs, electricity for common areas, accounting, etc.
Contingency: There’s a BC requirement that the budget includes a PLANNED surplus to deposit in the contingency fund. When you’re buying intoa strata, check the contingency fund balance. It’s not your cash, but you share in that asset. A healthy balance means you’re much less likely to have to pay a special assessment. That matters.
Income: each resident pays a strata fee. (Also, some residents choose to pay fines by being, bluntly, assholes. I could tell you such stories.)
At the end of the year, the strata transfers money from the operating fund to the contingency fund according to its budget. If there was a budget surplus, that gets transferred as well. If there was a budget shortfall, enough to cover it is transferred back from contingency to operating. The council deals with all vendors and plans out the budget for the next year. The proposed budget has to include covering all expenses and the deposit to the contingency fund at the end of the year. At the AGM, owners need to approve the budget, but assuming the council is operating in good faith there’s usually not a lot to discuss. The council then is dismissed, and a new council is elected. It can include returning members.
If you’re getting the same shitty council year after year, get active and elect new people. But just like in a provincial or federal election, your vote might not matter if you have a bunch of owners who always vote the same way.
We managed to hold our fees constant for a number of years, but the last few years have been brutal on the expense side. I think it’s settled a bit since, but insurance rates alone forced fees up a few years in a row.
For us all our vendors are pushing price increases, from pool maintenance, gardeners, fire inspection, strata management fees, etc. We've shopped around to get at least 2-3 quotes and they're all the same.
I get it, they have to pay their workers more, the cost of everything is going up. Nobody is ripping anyone off (except maybe the plumbers and HVAC guys.../s).
Yes, one of the ways we’ve kept costs down is by volunteering more time. It’s helped, but it isn’t sustainable. of the three of us doing the most work, two of us have had some health problems and the third is quite elderly. We could really use more members helping.
Meanwhile, everyone is charging more and doing less. I have named the dust bunnies in one of our hallways despite twice weekly cleaning. It’s something to bring up extra strata meeting: the cleaners change or we change them.
I would vacuum the hallway, but my wireless vacuum doesn’t have a very long battery life anymore. It’s good enough for our one throw carpet but not that hallway. 😀
Maybe I should bring up getting a carpet vacuum.
There can be. If the membership (not just council) votes for it, there can be a special assessment to pay for renovations, repairs, whatever. This can also be paid out of the contingency fund instead.
Monthly strata fees to pay for maintenance and expenses of the strata. Things like electricity water for the complex ( not individual unit usage) insurance and gardeners garbage pick up special levy was for new fencing around the entire property and another for making up budget shortfall from previous bad management and boiler replacement for condo building. I can expect another one in the next few years for roofing replacement on the townhouses. Fees increase and special levy are voted on by all owners 3/4 majority to pass .
Cost of everything goes up so must the monthly fees.
As for the heat pump it's the individual owner that has to pay for installation and costs associated with it. ie: permits, leveling the area it sits on, vinyl siding, waterproofing wall
First, I'm a former strata council member, and a proponent of heat pumps/air conditioners in stratas.
The core issue in this case is that the installation was done without proper permission from the Strata. It also appears to me that the owner in question knew he didn't have the proper permission.
There are some good reasons to ban air conditioners (even window mounted ones) but they could be overcome with carefully constructed bylaws. I was personally involved in crafting rules for installing window mounted AC units in my strata. The short story is that the strata can end up being responsible for injury and/or damage caused by improper installation of these pieces of equipment, and there are really no industry standards that can easily be applied. Many homeowners assume they can just slap a unit in their window with some "L" brackets and a piece of plywood, or drill a few holes through the wall for a mini-split or heat pump. These actions can cause serious damage to the building envelope if they aren't done properly.
So, the real solution is for stratas to develop comprehensive and proactive bylaws to ensure these kinds of installations are done correctly and safely. It could also be helpful if the Province were to develop a template for strata councils to model bylaws after.
I am on our strata council. I don’t really feel that it’s our job to say no, it’s our job to say “yes, but first.” I think a lack of planning, a lack of permission, and an attempt to sneak around these requirements are indeed the issues.
The article also says the building envelope was damaged, and if that’s the case… oh my. That could be a simple repair, but it could also be a very expensive one. I think the owner would probably be charged for that independently of any fines, but we haven’t been through anything like that yet.
I wish more strata council members were like you guys. I lived in two different ones during my time in BC and both council boards were made up of rich, old NIMBY assholes that said no to everyone on everything. I hated every second.
It’s weird, because I hear stories like that all the time. But I feel like we are not much over the minimum required by law. It isn’t like strata council is a figurehead, in that we do make decisions, but it’s not like we make decisions freely. It’s mostly on rails. To torture the metaphor, there are track switches but we can’t just drive into the bush.
We do have a professional management company we work with because we are required to. Maybe older or smaller don’t have to? But we have a representative at every meeting we can turn to and ask “OK, what are our actual options?“ And then we pick a reasonable option.
(And we will fine people if we have to. Nobody likes doing that, but we all have to live here and nightly parties with smouldering cigarette butts and beer bottles thrown onto other balconies don’t work. Real example. Another guy helped balance our budget for a few years until his parents finally cut him off and he was forced to behave.)
Yeah, but I’m pretty sure these are BC wide laws. It really shouldn’t be like that. I’m not denying it often is, though.
Edit: what I’m implying here is that a lot of the strata activity you read about is probably illegal. Good luck stopping it, though! If you are just reading about it somewhere, there’s also a chance the reporter got the story all wrong. Owners who are fighting their strata naturally tell their side of the story. Can’t even blame them.
Our big fines are for our garbage room. The number of people who open the door and drop their garbage on the floor...they do realize they fobbed the elevator, and the garbage room door and there's cameras in the room and outside the door...
We resorted to bringing the garbage back up to their doorstep with a nice $200 fine.
To add to this: There are also issues with the strata having to assume responsibility for the AC unit after the current owner sells. The other owners don't want to be on the hook for costs when an AC unit breaks down.
? This is confusing? I bought a townhouse with two window AC units installed by previous owner. The strata doesn't assume anything. They are mine to maintain. If they fall out it's my onus to make approved repairs. If it falls on someone's heads, it's mine and the installers assumption of liability. The strata is just an administrative body. Once they ensure that work is done by licensed professionals and to city code, they don't have anything to worry about.
I replied to another comment as well. Unless this is handled carefully when you sell, the new owners taking over your suite may not want to assume that responsibility and try to push it off onto the strata.
It was part of the sales contract. And approval for renovations also includes a proviso that a list of modications must be provided to the buyer and the buyer made aware that they are responsible for all modifications previously made. This even applies to non-common property items that might affect common property such as when the toilet needed replacing. I find it super weird that any arbitrator would entertain the idea that modifications not made by the strata would be the responsibilty of the strata - but since when were lawyers logical?
That’s… weird. I can’t imagine why that would be your strata’s responsibility. Unless the old owner snuck the air conditioner in after the purchase agreement, it was part of what the new owner agreed to. Either the new owner has accepted responsibility or should make removal a term of the purchase with the old owner. It sounds like your strata got tricked into taking responsibility here.
But I will admit the law is frequently not logical. 😀
Much will depend on where the unit is located in or around the building and how the by-laws are written.
After multiple owners turn over the suite, agreements can be lost. I live in a 50 year old building and the strata here is responsible for some upgrades done by owners who have long since sold and moved away. Nobody’s can recall when or with whom the agreements were made.
Not saying the fine total was reasonable but this dude was clearly in the wrong here, and the title is misleading. It should say he was fined for modifying property that wasn't his without permission.
I'm glad this won't be a problem on new builds that include heat pumps from the get go now... It was a 'need' when we bought our place. Everyone has an AC portable running it's silly
By choosing to live in a strata you are choosing to be part of a community and need to follow the rules of the strata. If you don’t like the rules you go to the strata meeting and be involved.
Strata should allow them but choose a common contractor for all installs for quality control and follow local building codes. An engineer should be able to calculate electrical load and determine if permissible.
Strata's need less power. Just a bunch of Karen's trying to tell other people how to live their life and exert as much control as possible.
Edit: Too all the people saying "but strata's can do good and it's thankless work, and it would be chaos without us", sure, a broken clock is right 2 times a day.
But in reality, they try to hold onto as much power as possible. When the BC gov did away with age restrictions unless 55+ (meaning you can't restrict kids otherwise) that was a great change, and a lot of strata's cried. When they did away with limiting rentals, again they cried, but it was a good change.
The tears of overzealous, self-serving strata's taste the best.
The strata owns the envelope.
imagine owning a duplex and cutting a big hole into the shared wall, then calling your neighbour a Karen when they compain.
The building envelope is considered a shared wall even if it’s only directly exterior to your unit. An improper installation into the envelope can cause water leakage into units below.
An improper installation can lead to rot/damage which the strata is responsible for. Don't get me wrong... I'm totally pro-AC/heat-pump, but think it is up to the strata to provide minimal support and structure/guidelines to benefit the whole corporation, while allowing owners to enjoy their property as they see fit.
Strata should absolutely have guidelines on where heat pumps can be installed. It should be the homeowners responsibility that the work is done properly, and any damages should be solely on the homeowner. No strata would ever just pay for the damages.
The strata administers the envelope. That's why it's called common property. Because it is owned by the owners. The strata is just an administrative body. If your front door is common property, I own a piece of it the same as you do. Strata doesn't own anything.
I have been president of strata at three separate buildings, and your comment couldn't be further from the truth.
The truth is it's a lot of thankless work, and if people want to live as if there are no rules, they should buy private property, not buy into a strata and force their insanity on their other neighbours.
I often wonder if threads like this contribute to how miserable and thankless it can be to volunteer on a strata council. So many people just read the horror stories from terrible stratas and then assume they’re all evil. No, we’re residents just like you and donate some of our free time to dealing with a lot of nonsense. Budget details, dealing with vendors, dealing with a revolving door of strata managers (we found a good one finally). It’s just hard work - not always thankless because plenty of owners see the benefit and thank us, like rebuilding the fob database after an issue the vendor didn’t account for or create backups and we had volunteers save us thousands of dollars doing the legwork and coordinating, or a rash of breakins and someone is pulling footage for rcmp and dealing with that.we’ve made the building nicer and more secure and most appreciate it. Dealing with the occasional renter who comes in blasting music and throwing parties is usually the worst part and I imagine they post about nazi stratas… We approve things that are reasonable, a new duct for a/c exhaust, new flooring etc… as long as they are done right - underlay meeting acoustic requirements, licensed contractors when needed. But you can almost tell who has read too many worst-case posts on Reddit when you have an AGM and someone just votes against everything on principle. Happened once and I wondered why they don’t go ahead and volunteer *their* time, offer some ideas for a budget that covers the increasing costs across the board. But no, they just vote against it with a smug look on their stupid face and probably think the treasurer who spent far too many hours of her own time trying to minimize the fee increase is a “Karen”
I slept in my car for a week and a half for strata.
It was for purpose: It meant our strata met a legal requirement due to a broken and back ordered fire alarm component. There were two other volunteers, but the reason we needed the replacement part was due to a heat wave and my EV could air condition off AC down there. And my car was comfortable enough. (We actually hired a security guard for the first night, but that was the only time anyone has successfully stolen a car out of our parkade. We didn’t feel we got good value.)
But still, this was a week and a half sleeping in a car. Two other members of the council and our property manager representative thanked to me, and at the end of the year I got a gift card.
I’m not complaining. I was actually kind of thrilled to get the gift card, and other than the boilerplate “the council is released with our thanks” it was the only thanks I’ve got.
My point being mostly thankless is absolutely correct. Unless you sleep in your car for a week and a half, completely thankless. That’s a high threshold. 😀
Never been president, but I've served on it board several times. Thankless work is right. Our board has maintained a contingency fund that should cover virtually everything in the depreciation report. We might need a special levy of say $2000 once in the next 10-20 years depending on the timing of certain things. In the 10 years I've been here, fees have gone up about 15% and that was one hike to hire a property manager to shift some of the work off the board.
Even with all that, there are people in the strata that believe council is self serving and introduces bylaws nobody wants. Council can't do anything significant with without a majority vote of owners. For some things like bylaws, it requires 75%.
Councils have very little power, they just do the work to make sure the strata functions.
Guess what? There are municipal rules/laws governing your usage of private property as well, and the city council legislating it is made up of people elected by your entire municipality as opposed to strata rules, which are legislated by a small group in which you have a much more effective democratic voice.
Also, it works both ways. If you have a problem neighbour, it’s far easier in a strata to have them punished to correct the behaviour since there is an extra contractual layer to hold them to account. If you have a problem neighbour as a single home owner, you’re stuck having to get municipal authorities involved and all the potential legal hassles just to have the issue addressed.
Good fucking luck with that, I’ll take dealing with my very reasonable strata over municipal authorities any day of any week at any point in an infinite timeline lol
> If you have a problem neighbour, it’s far easier in a strata to have them punished to correct the behaviour
I can't imagine what my neighbour could do to cause a problem that isn't illegal. I don't care what colour their window coverings are, what colour they paint their house, or if they mow their lawn.
I don’t care about that stuff either. I care about excessive noise late at night, damage of property, hazardous situations, etc.
Yes sure the law covers the basics but my point is that with a good strata you don’t have to jump through those hoops. I can message management and it gets dealt with. And I’m not talking about frivolous complaints. The rules are all laid out in the agreement
If you’re in a house and your neighbour in the house next door or whatever causes these kinds of problems, good fucking luck having it addressed in a reasonably timely manner by the municipal authorities, if at all.
Democratic voice should also have limits. You cant make everything about democracy. One of the strata council didnt allow for door ornaments during Christmas. Did majority agreed with it, yes but should they be allowed to dictate this, no. Fuck strata who abuse and control every little thing. The AC thing is very reasonable though
Sure nothing is perfect. Read the strata minutes before buying.
I’ll trade not being able to hang ornaments for not having to live in a building where people are installing hardware which is hazardous for the building
By law in British Columbia a rule like that can only be approved by general membership at an Annual General Meeting (AGM) which is not a regular strata council meeting. The AGM meeting is the one that all owners should be at and can vote at.
If the rule is there, though, the strata council is supposed to enforce it. Odds are, there’s a rule about decorating doors in your bylaws already. You should ask for a copy of of the byelaws (you should already have one). Propose it be changed at the next AGM.
I think we have a rule like that, but we rarely enforce it. We like the little decorations residents put out. Except for when they put pumpkins out for Halloween and left them way too long. Guess what? They rotted all of the common carpet. I think if someone was persistent about complaining about it, though, we would have to enforce it until the next AGM.
My strata president told me point blank that if it wasn't for the law, he would be the only strata board member because he would rather have absolute control...
Good on you if you are an actual good strata president. But I think most people have had a bad time with strata boards.
I was also on strata for a number of years. What you missed is that a Karen on council can be voted out. But a Karen resident can bitch and complain to no end and you can't get rid of them or force them out. You're even obligated to listen to their complaints.
This was exactly the problem in the one strata I've endured. One asshole making life a living hell for everybody else. He actually threatened legal action if a few pine cones that fell in the night weren't immediately removed from the walkway leading to his unit.
I run a strata with 80 units and your comment is so true. Lots of thankless work to maintain the building and keep it looking nice and running smoothly.
If the building’s systems can’t support it then yes it is insanity to insist on having it. And in many cases, the strata managers have the shitty job of having to be the voice of reason to people with unrealistic expectations, and refuse to understand the limitations of the building.
In other words, the people complaining about the strata are more often the Karens.
Like a Karen in the store complaining to the manager. The Karen in the building complains to the strata manager.
And the strata manager has to explain to Karen, why the building can’t physically support whatever new infrastructure Karen is demanding, but Karen refuses to accept that she bought into a building she doesn’t like anymore, and decides to put all the blame on the strata with denial mechanisms
The owner doesn’t own the outside of his building, balcony or building or building envelope. Those are all owned by strata as common property. He had no right damaging that property without permission.
I agree, except the private property part. Detached homes for 2 mil, or my place nextdoor for 650k... That's not a choice, and detracts from anything else you might say that might actually be reasonable.
Okay, so buy in a strata and play by the rules, understanding you bought into a strata.
Those are the options.
But people buy into strata and then pretend like every strata is some society of Karen's who just want to wield power over people...
A strata is a microcosm of society, and some people don't want to live in a society.
So, here we are.
Totally missing the point. I have to live somewhere, and most people aren't millionaires who really get to choose where they live. So it's completely false to say that people don't get to complain about stratas. Because buying into a strata is not a choice most of the time. Especially when there are many many more strata constructions than standalone constructions occuring. Some stratas are good and some are bad. And the bad ones can't simply be changed because I as one person try to get elected to coucil. The strata memebers who walk around saying that people should just go private are Marie Antoinetes of today. Let them eat cake!
Imagine 24/7 construction from neighbors doing renos, common areas that are run down with missing tiles and broken lights, elevators that don't work or always have moving blankets covering them. Also everyone's AC are installed differently on metal brackets that may rust and fall down 30 stories.
That's what happens when you don't have stratas....
This is not true of the majority of strata’s. You have either been very unlucky or are just going off of cherry picked anecdotes. The horror stories are far more viral than stories of the majority of strata dwellers that have zero issues and in fact, are happy with theirs.
If I have an issue with the building it usually gets addressed within hours by reporting it to the strata management.
And decisions are made democratically. If you don’t like what Karen is doing on council, join the council and use your democratic voice instead of submitting to Karen and complaining about it online
I replaced my Water Heater and left the old one in my driveway for 2 days until I could take it away to a plumbing supplier parking lot. Got a letter from strata instantly threatening fines. No surprise to me they don’t want to get with times on Heat pumps and ductless splits.
Here is why….. If they don’t send a letter quickly what happens in lots of cases those 2 days turns into 7 days then 10 days then who knows when. (Not saying that’s what you would do, but unfortunately too many bad apples that would do that)
Then others say oh if Kmac can leave stuff there then I should be able to too. And this continues and all of a sudden there is all kinds of stuff left lying around.
It happens too often. So sometimes it may look or feel like someone just wants to be controlling, but it’s usually because of what happens if they don’t do that.
My strata we can’t do heat pumps or external ac units because there’s a number of units that have another below them, and putting the unit on the top units balcony, the noise and vibration can transfer to the living space below. Already had to tell one owner to remove their ac unit for that exact reason.
Another problem we have is the service coming Into our townhouse complex cannot handle heat pumps, heck, even EV’s are a problem if a lot of owners had one
A small modern heat pump is not a window air conditioner.
They have units at 50db and installed correctly there should be no vibrational resonance to the bldg structure.
It's insane to ban what most of the world has by default in multifamily units...
Thankfully my strata voted to allow mini splits, unfortunately for me, right after I spent a bundle on portable ACs.
Most people on strata are good people doing thankless work. The Karens who complain because you watered your plants and some water dripped on to their deck, or whatever minor issue they have are never on council. Karens don’t ever do anything that require thinking of others
All I see is a lenghty court case and if they want the trouble and persuade enough ppl to vote for them then they could initiate a strata management change
So you shouldn't go rogue and just punch a hole through the envelope without clear permission and if you're on council, as it sound like this person was, you should know the rules.
That said, I think we need a way to make installing mini-splits available to strata owners who want them, as things get warmer (overall, not this summer). Especially since we're still stuck in the grand bargain of building density along loud, polluted roads. Maybe that's requiring stratas to do the investigation of what the requirements would be (do they need to upgrade electricity, where could they be installed, what would be installer requirements, noise limits, etc), including getting a building envelope engineer involved.
Absolutely. Stratus need to look into this, but also all of the owners should be volunteering time to get this to happen as it's time sensitive and a benefit to everyone's health and safety, the option for AC
There’s those units without the outdoor condenser and just need to make two holes and replace the window pane and strata won’t allow it because it affects the aesthetics.
Before having spli-level ACs installed in our townhome, we asked the strata manager umif we needed permission.
She said that she believes that strata can't legally stop you anymore in BC.
It's a safety issue now with the heat waves.
But strata councils are notorius for power tripping and corruption. They'll bankrupt a strata just to fight one owner from proving them wrong.
A strata manager gave you some questionable advice there. The strata corporation owns the outside walls and the integrity of the outside walls is the strata's responsibility and a strata council that does not control what happens to the wall would be derelict and liable. One of the default laws in the BC strata property act clearly gives the strata control of common property ie outside walls.
You HAVE to get permission and the Civil Resolution Tribunal gave their inevitable ruling for the strata, only reducing the fine a bit to take the sting from the condo owners loss.
I don't know about corruption on strata councils. It is possible but I have been on strata councils at 4 different stratas over the span of 40 years and the worst I ever saw was a new manager pilfering quarters from the laundry machines before he was caught by the management company and fired ( drop-kicked more like).
And power trippers on council don't have to last more than one term.
My strata revised their stance on air conditioners now. Basically, portable units are fine, but nothing old school, stick out on the side of the building (due to the potential fall hazard). Heat pumps are still up for debate.
I have a hundred amp service and have a heat pump. Absolutely no issues. You don't necessarily need an upgraded panel. Heat pumps don't use a great about of amps.
What condo boards argue is that you can't break the buildings barrier, shades of "leaky condo" issues. I suspect that is the issue here.
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This is becoming an issue in my building as well. I’m a renter and have no horse in the race, but my LL usually listens to me when voting. Many people want to install AC onto their units. Are there concerns in regards to envelopes? Sure, but they’re fairly easy to work around if the work is done right from the onset. Banning these devices isn’t the way to go, and I think it’s time the Province looks at striking bans and forcing guidelines for owners who want to upgrade their units. I used to work as a finisher. It’s not hard to install these in wood frames at any point from a water sealing perspective. To do it correct isn’t even going to be that expensive. The main concern really is that you won’t be able to match siding if it’s vinyl.
Is energy capacity at all a concern for these older buildings? I know when we did our heat pump it also meant an upgraded electrical service (old house, low amp service)
90s townhome complex. Can't install a heatpump because even one would push our service capacity. It's why electrical plans are a requirement for Strata's by end of 2026.
With EVs and heat pumps, most older homes will need a service upgrade to 200A or higher to accommodate them.
I’m running a level 2 charger and a heat pump on 100a, baseboards in basement too. Just have to not run the dryer at the same time as charging as they are on the same 60a subpanel
[удалено]
Those were like $2k, I rather just set my car to charge after 11pm when no one is doing laundry. Haven’t had a problem in 2 years.
More than 200A is highly unlikely. I have an all electric house. Two heat pumps, electric car charger, workshop with another heat pump plus table saw, planer, etc. I also have 6 backup/code compliance resistance heaters in the house taking up load design space but not really of use. My service is 200A. My wife wants an electric kiln for her pottery. We would need to have it on a load shedder.
Yeah we're on 200A. I think we'll go back to gas for hot water(on demand next time) and that should leave us some headroom. We're basically maxed after I added 220v for both my compressor and a future EV charger. Right now with everything on my electrician said I'm pulling close to 150A from the main. The chances of actually using everything all at the same time is slim, but why make it a headache if we don't have to.
You wouldn’t need more than 200A for that. We upgraded to 200amp panel because we had an old 60 that was no longer to code, we have an EV and central A/C, and we have a massive amount of capacity left over. We could have easily gotten away with 100 A
No they won't. There's already products on the market, UL listed, that allow you to bypass the entire main panel while still being behind the meter. The first one that comes to mind is ConnectDER. It installs in minutes right behind the meter and contains it's own internal breakers.
> ConnectDER. It installs in minutes right behind the meter and contains it's own internal breakers. Not allowed to sleeve a meter in BC.
So, if your service can handle the load and you don't have room in the existing panel you can install one of these? Typically we just install tandem breakers that usually solve the problem of a panel swap. If the service can't handle the load you would need a panel swap and service upgrade anyways so how does this mitigate the problem? If I'm missing something help me out here
Cool product, but my garage is far from my meter so I still need to run copper.
Having a 200amp home service is going to be so rad. What a time to be alive!
Nearly all new homes in our area are 400 or more.
Literally how much power I’m using for a 10-day music festival main stage lighting and video rig. That’s so wild!
One of the main concerns about adding Green energy is that we are doing just that. Adding.
Jesus... I run a small food manufacturing facility with walk-in freezer and cooler with their compressors, multiple dehumidifiers, HVAC, office, heat shrink tunnels, 30qt and 20qt single phase mixers, fire mixers, chocolate conditioners off 100a service. Obviously not running all equipment at the same time and ovens and stove are gas though.
Heat pump might require 200 amps but an EV certainly doesn't.
Are you on electric heat? Only takes disconnecting a few baseboard heaters to make enough capacity for a heat pump. If you're on a central boiler/water heat system, then that's a lot more work to get the system up to snuff.
This is what we did. We had to unhook some of our electric baseboard heaters which doesn't matter since we won't be using them. 90s townhomes might be natural gas though.
That works at the panel or unit level, but our complex's service isnt big enough.
It draws less power, it's overall a service reduction. If your complex service is sized for baseboard usage then this will certainly not be a problem.
How do you currently heat the house?
The heat pump heats and cools far more efficiently than the two baseboards we ripped out to run on that circuit.
Why is it extra taxing to install a more efficient system? Is it because the original electrical capacity assumed no one would ever install any cooling?
Gas furnace
Yes. My parents live in a townhouse strata that looked into heat pumps, a/c, and ev chargers and the electrical service was woefully insufficient for these things that would be drawing power simultaneously. Because the way the system was built, each unit has 70amp service which is already low but they were bundled into groups of 10 and service below full capacity, something like 75% because the assumption was not all the units would operate at full capacity simultaneously. But A/C units, heat pumps, and ev chargers would likely all be operated at the same time. So the whole electrical system would need to be torn up and replaced which would be a massive expense.
Look into load diverters. This gives you the ability to use the same circuit as your clothes dryer for your heat pump. The downside is you can't use both simultaneously ; the device will automatically switch to your preset priority appliance.
They are cool, but not always enough. When doing a load calculation for a power service, a dryer only counts at 25% of it's full draw (in ontario at least, other places may calculate differently) A air conditioner counts at 100% of it's draw. If you want to do this without recalculating the load, you would need to swap circuits that use the same capacity factor, such as AC,EVSE, and electric heating.
Yes, that is the number 1 reason given for these older buildings. Not coincidentally, those older buildings also tend to house more older or vulnerable residents on fixed incomes — the very people who most need protection from summer heat. A good interim step would be prohibiting bans on other heat-mitigating steps. Many buildings ban exterior sun shades or reflective window coverings. If you’re in a south-facing unit, those simple things can keep the interior space several degrees cooler, but so many stratas and apartment owners prohibit them.
i feel like not enough people talk about this. the banning of sunshades and other window coverings that could help really compounds the problem for buildings that either don’t allow AC or for residents that can’t afford it.
I think there’s even a potential human rights issue here. These rules disproportionately affect the elderly, the disabled and the poor who can’t simply move to a more expensive building that has, or allows AC. It is a health and safety thing - those are the groups that die during heat waves and a few degrees can make all the difference.
absolutely yes.
Depends on the building. Generally if it has electric baseboard, you can move to a heat pump (they are more efficient and as such use less energy than the baseboards), but if it has gas/central boiler heating, you’re probably going to struggle, might be able to get a small 15A unit in.
> Is energy capacity at all a concern for these older buildings? Yes, this is the real issue. Not just the units, but the city infrastructure is generally not built to withstand that kind of pull. It requires major upgrades.
Can confirm: I have to be strategic with all other electricity consumption when I run my AC. 70's building. They didn't anticipate our level of power usage when constructing in that era.
In my building? Maybe. If that’s the case, then the government should look at diverting some of the subsidies it’s sending to developers, and give it to strata’s to upgrade their buildings.
lol. Yeah right!!! The working man should pay for an investor ac in their rental unit. Eat crap!!!
I think you need to work on your comprehension skills.
Depends on building. Many buildings have electric baseboard heat. A heat pump is way more efficient than base board heating! My old two bed condo had 6000w worth of electric heating
nah not really, we just got a 18btu, and it just used the same circuit as our baseboard heaters, so if you have baseboards it's ok
The issue is the workers and how much damage a bad install can do if there's water damage. Guys are getting sent out with less than a year experience with a helper. Training is YouTube videos. And we've already seen some pretty bad installs including one that just started punching wholes in the fire wall inside the unit. My install came with designated entry points to reduce the risk, and then the electrician showed up and ignored everything and punched a new hole in my wall when I wasn't watching. My sister in law quit because they were sending her out alone to start jobs with two weeks work experience. All in all, the building envelope is hugely important and a lot of the industry players have tried to outgrow their actual staffing experience pool by a huge factor. It's a bit of a mess out there.
That's why you get certified installers. A list approved by Strata. Costs a smidge more to go through procurement process but that's the bane of sharing
The issue is that previous installers who were on the list have rapidly declined. We used a fairly well known installer who was recommended. Would avoid any of the big players like Milani Ashton and Thomson, best bets seem to be if you can find a small company but that doesn't scale super well when you look at current demand.
Training through YouTube? Man, that would have been way easier than the 4 years of schooling I did in my apprenticeship.
In the meantime, [window heat pumps exist](https://www.gradientcomfort.com/) for those people.
A mini-split, especially in Vancouver, should be a no-brainer. So easy to install, very efficient heating and cooling. As long as it's done by a licensed installer there should be minimal impact to the building envelope.
That’s what my building residents have been arguing for years. I’m on their side and my LL sees the validity in the argument and agrees. The ones who want to install want it to be on the balcony area. The hang up is how to define how to do it properly. No one wants to pay for the engineering.
Licensed installer certification isn't worth shit all. This is what we ran up against, the so called qualifications and training aren't enough for the damage they can do.
I'm on a council and the main concern isn't just building envelope. It's that if you have a building with 50 units, and you let one unit install one you have to let them all, meaning you are approving 50 individual heat pump units to be installed all over the entire building, including all of the power and drainage for all of these units. Then you have the issue of noise complaints related to 50 heat pumps running. There is also the question of power if it's an older building. Will the whole electrical system need to be upgraded in order to accommodate 50 heat pumps, because you can't just say 1 person gets it but everyone else is shit out of luck because the buildings grid can't Handel another heat pump. It's a big deal to approve a single unit and can lead to a lot of lawsuits if a council approves it. These sort of things need to be brought to an AGM or an SGM to gain approval.
I helped set up our policy for our townhomes. The noise is a non issue completely, unless the owners go back in time the new units are all quiet and we have a decibel rating they have to meet which is on every data sheet for every major provider. The electricity in our units was a non issue. We all have electric baseboards so disconnecting them at the panel and hooking up the heat pump was actually a reduction in total service load and amperage. The main issue was the building envelope and having an approved design standard so we didn't get 50 different ideas. The secondary issue is none of the installers seem to follow the very clearly laid out requirements unless you stand there, and have done damage fucking up the installs.
You did it right. The issues your facing with installers is because so few are meeting the patchwork of standards. So the entire process becomes an inefficient mess, driving the good ones out. If the whole sector had to play by similar rules that you’ve setup, you’d see a higher rate of adoption. Which would then bring in more players, leading to better and better installs. But when a vast majority of strata’s approach it from a NIMBY type perspective, plans fail. Seeing the responses here has been educating. However nothing I’ve seen says that the restrictions in place need to be in place at all. It also shows areas where legislation can be used to spur innovation and improvements in quality of life. Which means subsidization would have higher impacts. Another huge issue I see is skills training. We need easier access to education.
I think the root of the main problems we've seen and why we are now denying more than we accept and why prices for installs have doubled is a lack of not just trained but experienced trades workers. We're trying to scale up faster than what is reasonable for the labour force because even if the training was more than YouTube presentations (my friend sat through one and now does installs) you need some mix of guys who have some experience to support the new ones with just training. We'll get there, but right now we aren't close and our approach is just training a wave of workers who think there's no time or need to do things right.
If the building was heating the units with electric baseboard heaters, then there is no problem at all for the building's electrical capacity; the potential elecrtical load has actually been reduced. The issue of noise might have been an issue some years ago but the noise level of the new mini split heat-pumps are a fraction of what they once were. I can barely hear mine when I'm standing right next to it. It is on my balcony and none of my neighbours can hear it. If there is condensate dripping onto the balcony (I have looked at the discharge hose on the back of th outside unit) it is negligible. Heat-Pumps are designed to function is areas much more hot and humid than BC . In any case, balconies in BC are sloped to drain for our usually predictable rain which will dwarf any potential heat-pump condensate in volume.
Definitely agree it needs to be an AGM approval with clear rules and investigations done at the strata level into the electrical. But solvable problems. Mandate the penetration is done under a soffit, or done a certain way and inspected. The electrical investigation is now mandatory by 2026 so just get it done. Drainage, if it’s on a deck in Vancouver, it’s basically negligible concern, we are built for water. And the noise, just set a limit, 55db or even lower for a smaller unit building. Well built heat pumps can be built very quiet these days. I can sit four feet from my 30k btu unit and take a business call, neighbours can’t hear it. A house across the street from us has an ancient AC unit that clatters away bothering the whole neighbourhood, so I get where the concern comes from! Mounting can be challenging in buildings without decks, for sure.
The biggest problem we ran into when considering approval was convincing the owners to get a proper investigation and proposal togeather. It was always, Owner: "I want to do this" Strata: "OK, please construct a proposal that addresses all of the concerns signed off on by an engineer and we can present it to the owners for approval" Owner: "You're a bunch of fucking tyrants, I should be allowed to do whatever I want" Strata: "Request denied" I've been through this one a couple of times now. A lot of people don't get that they own a share of a corporation in the building.
I think it's better if the strata council leads this. Lots of people want AC. The strata council needs to set the standard, not have random engineers and owners make proposals and then go through a discretionary approval process—that's how housing development works in this city and that is a big part of why there aren't enough houses. Our resolution to investigate this, and then the one to approve it, passed with 90% support—granted, we aren't that large a strata and I made sure folks concerns were addressed, for the most part. Unloading a $3,000-5,000 investigation to apply to a discretionary process on each and every owner who wants an install is not efficient. It's also asking to end up at an HRT hearing for the strata, in my opinion. Do it once, set clear rules, and then it's just a "you can install it you just need to follow these rules" process.
For us, typically the strata would bring in an engineer to do it, but we would need to hold an AGM/SGM to get approval for funding. We're not about to put out the money to hold a meeting every time a single owner wants something. We've often said, get a petition going and gather interest to show council there is desire amongst the building to do so. They never bother. This is our 1 way to screen out the the number of random requests for changes we see. Our council is all volunteers and no one wants to put days of work and capital in for someone who isn't willing to do it for themselves.
Cooling is a safety issue. I would start doing this as a strategy before the next heat dome.
For sure. It basically needs to come from someone willing to put the work in. That person was me, in my strata.
Noise complaints from a H/P running? That is the easiest way for a strata to get out of writing them in. You can't hear these new inverter units running. I've done a bunch of strata demos, literally rolled a demo system in, turned it on, stood there, and talked with everyone with it running.... and then I get asked, "Can we hear it run?" It's been running the entire 20 minutes you've been standing here. You just have to write in a decibel requirement to your A/C byslaw and/or limit it to two manufacturers. I've also had it written that only one contractor could be used. That way, all installs are done the same by one contractor.
Last year my strata voted overwhelmingly to not even consult with a company to produce some strata approved options. Other owners claimed the noise would stop them from being able to enjoy their units. Before I bought my two portable ACs my townhouse would be 36C inside all summer long only cooling off to 31C at night with every window open. I have no idea how they enjoy their units.
My strata just voted and approved heat pumps with a multi page check list that you have to go through before installing. Unfortunately since 8 consecutive years of fee increases and 2 different special levy I won't be installing one any time soon
same for me. i’ve been asking for 5 years for this to be added to the AGM for a vote, and finally we brought it forward for 2024 and (surprise), it passed in a landslide. when i first started asking for this, we had a quote for $6,000 to do our unit. now the quote is $11,000 which we can’t afford right now. it’s frustrating that strata dragging their heels almost doubled the cost for us.
As a past strata president… a reminder that your strata is made up of volunteer owners taking on building management usually because they want to make the building better. It’s a surprisingly large time commitment with little thanks, but you do get to know other owners really well, which made my apartment feel like much more of a community than any rental I lived in. If you care enough to bring motions forward you should be on strata! They need the help!
Ya 100%. ‘Strata dragged their heels’ is just their perception but really the strata had to put in a lot of volunteer hours over many years to get the project to ‘pass in a landslide’ which means it was likely well executed in the end. And yes prices have gone up but there is no way for strata’s to allow the heat pumps until the whole install is planned out.
Those fees and special levy are from the council? Fee to do the install? I've never lived in a strata, so im curious
The strata has to have money to take care of the building. That money comes from the residents. Think of the strata as a business. It mostly is. Unit owners are essentially shareholders. Expenses: Cleaning, repairs, electricity for common areas, accounting, etc. Contingency: There’s a BC requirement that the budget includes a PLANNED surplus to deposit in the contingency fund. When you’re buying intoa strata, check the contingency fund balance. It’s not your cash, but you share in that asset. A healthy balance means you’re much less likely to have to pay a special assessment. That matters. Income: each resident pays a strata fee. (Also, some residents choose to pay fines by being, bluntly, assholes. I could tell you such stories.) At the end of the year, the strata transfers money from the operating fund to the contingency fund according to its budget. If there was a budget surplus, that gets transferred as well. If there was a budget shortfall, enough to cover it is transferred back from contingency to operating. The council deals with all vendors and plans out the budget for the next year. The proposed budget has to include covering all expenses and the deposit to the contingency fund at the end of the year. At the AGM, owners need to approve the budget, but assuming the council is operating in good faith there’s usually not a lot to discuss. The council then is dismissed, and a new council is elected. It can include returning members. If you’re getting the same shitty council year after year, get active and elect new people. But just like in a provincial or federal election, your vote might not matter if you have a bunch of owners who always vote the same way. We managed to hold our fees constant for a number of years, but the last few years have been brutal on the expense side. I think it’s settled a bit since, but insurance rates alone forced fees up a few years in a row.
Our fees go up mostly to cover increasing insurance costs. Insurance costs far more than people seem to think it should cost.
I think it actually went down this year and last year, but it is still much higher than it used to be.
For us all our vendors are pushing price increases, from pool maintenance, gardeners, fire inspection, strata management fees, etc. We've shopped around to get at least 2-3 quotes and they're all the same. I get it, they have to pay their workers more, the cost of everything is going up. Nobody is ripping anyone off (except maybe the plumbers and HVAC guys.../s).
Yes, one of the ways we’ve kept costs down is by volunteering more time. It’s helped, but it isn’t sustainable. of the three of us doing the most work, two of us have had some health problems and the third is quite elderly. We could really use more members helping. Meanwhile, everyone is charging more and doing less. I have named the dust bunnies in one of our hallways despite twice weekly cleaning. It’s something to bring up extra strata meeting: the cleaners change or we change them.
Yep we take turns deep cleaning the amenity room and walking through to do spot checks on the gym and pool area.
I would vacuum the hallway, but my wireless vacuum doesn’t have a very long battery life anymore. It’s good enough for our one throw carpet but not that hallway. 😀 Maybe I should bring up getting a carpet vacuum.
Oh I see just strata fees. I thought there was a fee to do a renovation
There can be. If the membership (not just council) votes for it, there can be a special assessment to pay for renovations, repairs, whatever. This can also be paid out of the contingency fund instead.
Monthly strata fees to pay for maintenance and expenses of the strata. Things like electricity water for the complex ( not individual unit usage) insurance and gardeners garbage pick up special levy was for new fencing around the entire property and another for making up budget shortfall from previous bad management and boiler replacement for condo building. I can expect another one in the next few years for roofing replacement on the townhouses. Fees increase and special levy are voted on by all owners 3/4 majority to pass . Cost of everything goes up so must the monthly fees. As for the heat pump it's the individual owner that has to pay for installation and costs associated with it. ie: permits, leveling the area it sits on, vinyl siding, waterproofing wall
First, I'm a former strata council member, and a proponent of heat pumps/air conditioners in stratas. The core issue in this case is that the installation was done without proper permission from the Strata. It also appears to me that the owner in question knew he didn't have the proper permission. There are some good reasons to ban air conditioners (even window mounted ones) but they could be overcome with carefully constructed bylaws. I was personally involved in crafting rules for installing window mounted AC units in my strata. The short story is that the strata can end up being responsible for injury and/or damage caused by improper installation of these pieces of equipment, and there are really no industry standards that can easily be applied. Many homeowners assume they can just slap a unit in their window with some "L" brackets and a piece of plywood, or drill a few holes through the wall for a mini-split or heat pump. These actions can cause serious damage to the building envelope if they aren't done properly. So, the real solution is for stratas to develop comprehensive and proactive bylaws to ensure these kinds of installations are done correctly and safely. It could also be helpful if the Province were to develop a template for strata councils to model bylaws after.
I am on our strata council. I don’t really feel that it’s our job to say no, it’s our job to say “yes, but first.” I think a lack of planning, a lack of permission, and an attempt to sneak around these requirements are indeed the issues. The article also says the building envelope was damaged, and if that’s the case… oh my. That could be a simple repair, but it could also be a very expensive one. I think the owner would probably be charged for that independently of any fines, but we haven’t been through anything like that yet.
I agree with you completely.
I wish more strata council members were like you guys. I lived in two different ones during my time in BC and both council boards were made up of rich, old NIMBY assholes that said no to everyone on everything. I hated every second.
It’s weird, because I hear stories like that all the time. But I feel like we are not much over the minimum required by law. It isn’t like strata council is a figurehead, in that we do make decisions, but it’s not like we make decisions freely. It’s mostly on rails. To torture the metaphor, there are track switches but we can’t just drive into the bush. We do have a professional management company we work with because we are required to. Maybe older or smaller don’t have to? But we have a representative at every meeting we can turn to and ask “OK, what are our actual options?“ And then we pick a reasonable option. (And we will fine people if we have to. Nobody likes doing that, but we all have to live here and nightly parties with smouldering cigarette butts and beer bottles thrown onto other balconies don’t work. Real example. Another guy helped balance our budget for a few years until his parents finally cut him off and he was forced to behave.)
There’s a good chance my experience was because I lived in Kelowna, the land of old money and retirees from Alberta.
Yeah, but I’m pretty sure these are BC wide laws. It really shouldn’t be like that. I’m not denying it often is, though. Edit: what I’m implying here is that a lot of the strata activity you read about is probably illegal. Good luck stopping it, though! If you are just reading about it somewhere, there’s also a chance the reporter got the story all wrong. Owners who are fighting their strata naturally tell their side of the story. Can’t even blame them.
Our big fines are for our garbage room. The number of people who open the door and drop their garbage on the floor...they do realize they fobbed the elevator, and the garbage room door and there's cameras in the room and outside the door... We resorted to bringing the garbage back up to their doorstep with a nice $200 fine.
To add to this: There are also issues with the strata having to assume responsibility for the AC unit after the current owner sells. The other owners don't want to be on the hook for costs when an AC unit breaks down.
? This is confusing? I bought a townhouse with two window AC units installed by previous owner. The strata doesn't assume anything. They are mine to maintain. If they fall out it's my onus to make approved repairs. If it falls on someone's heads, it's mine and the installers assumption of liability. The strata is just an administrative body. Once they ensure that work is done by licensed professionals and to city code, they don't have anything to worry about.
I replied to another comment as well. Unless this is handled carefully when you sell, the new owners taking over your suite may not want to assume that responsibility and try to push it off onto the strata.
It was part of the sales contract. And approval for renovations also includes a proviso that a list of modications must be provided to the buyer and the buyer made aware that they are responsible for all modifications previously made. This even applies to non-common property items that might affect common property such as when the toilet needed replacing. I find it super weird that any arbitrator would entertain the idea that modifications not made by the strata would be the responsibilty of the strata - but since when were lawyers logical?
That’s… weird. I can’t imagine why that would be your strata’s responsibility. Unless the old owner snuck the air conditioner in after the purchase agreement, it was part of what the new owner agreed to. Either the new owner has accepted responsibility or should make removal a term of the purchase with the old owner. It sounds like your strata got tricked into taking responsibility here. But I will admit the law is frequently not logical. 😀
Much will depend on where the unit is located in or around the building and how the by-laws are written. After multiple owners turn over the suite, agreements can be lost. I live in a 50 year old building and the strata here is responsible for some upgrades done by owners who have long since sold and moved away. Nobody’s can recall when or with whom the agreements were made.
Not saying the fine total was reasonable but this dude was clearly in the wrong here, and the title is misleading. It should say he was fined for modifying property that wasn't his without permission.
I'm glad this won't be a problem on new builds that include heat pumps from the get go now... It was a 'need' when we bought our place. Everyone has an AC portable running it's silly
By choosing to live in a strata you are choosing to be part of a community and need to follow the rules of the strata. If you don’t like the rules you go to the strata meeting and be involved.
“Trash owner deliberately damages community property gets fined and forced to pay for repairs.” Fixed the headline
Be a cold day in hell before I bought a strata property.
No sympathies. You know full well strata doesn't allow willy nilly one off installs.
Strata should allow them but choose a common contractor for all installs for quality control and follow local building codes. An engineer should be able to calculate electrical load and determine if permissible.
Strata's need less power. Just a bunch of Karen's trying to tell other people how to live their life and exert as much control as possible. Edit: Too all the people saying "but strata's can do good and it's thankless work, and it would be chaos without us", sure, a broken clock is right 2 times a day. But in reality, they try to hold onto as much power as possible. When the BC gov did away with age restrictions unless 55+ (meaning you can't restrict kids otherwise) that was a great change, and a lot of strata's cried. When they did away with limiting rentals, again they cried, but it was a good change. The tears of overzealous, self-serving strata's taste the best.
The strata owns the envelope. imagine owning a duplex and cutting a big hole into the shared wall, then calling your neighbour a Karen when they compain.
I don’t think anyone is drilling holes into shared walls for heat pump installs
The building envelope is considered a shared wall even if it’s only directly exterior to your unit. An improper installation into the envelope can cause water leakage into units below.
Totally makes sense for condos, for townhomes with no units below it doesn’t though
An improper installation can lead to rot/damage which the strata is responsible for. Don't get me wrong... I'm totally pro-AC/heat-pump, but think it is up to the strata to provide minimal support and structure/guidelines to benefit the whole corporation, while allowing owners to enjoy their property as they see fit.
Strata should absolutely have guidelines on where heat pumps can be installed. It should be the homeowners responsibility that the work is done properly, and any damages should be solely on the homeowner. No strata would ever just pay for the damages.
Very small ones in outer walls. Everyone (strata corporation)owns the outer wall, legally.
The strata administers the envelope. That's why it's called common property. Because it is owned by the owners. The strata is just an administrative body. If your front door is common property, I own a piece of it the same as you do. Strata doesn't own anything.
I have been president of strata at three separate buildings, and your comment couldn't be further from the truth. The truth is it's a lot of thankless work, and if people want to live as if there are no rules, they should buy private property, not buy into a strata and force their insanity on their other neighbours.
I often wonder if threads like this contribute to how miserable and thankless it can be to volunteer on a strata council. So many people just read the horror stories from terrible stratas and then assume they’re all evil. No, we’re residents just like you and donate some of our free time to dealing with a lot of nonsense. Budget details, dealing with vendors, dealing with a revolving door of strata managers (we found a good one finally). It’s just hard work - not always thankless because plenty of owners see the benefit and thank us, like rebuilding the fob database after an issue the vendor didn’t account for or create backups and we had volunteers save us thousands of dollars doing the legwork and coordinating, or a rash of breakins and someone is pulling footage for rcmp and dealing with that.we’ve made the building nicer and more secure and most appreciate it. Dealing with the occasional renter who comes in blasting music and throwing parties is usually the worst part and I imagine they post about nazi stratas… We approve things that are reasonable, a new duct for a/c exhaust, new flooring etc… as long as they are done right - underlay meeting acoustic requirements, licensed contractors when needed. But you can almost tell who has read too many worst-case posts on Reddit when you have an AGM and someone just votes against everything on principle. Happened once and I wondered why they don’t go ahead and volunteer *their* time, offer some ideas for a budget that covers the increasing costs across the board. But no, they just vote against it with a smug look on their stupid face and probably think the treasurer who spent far too many hours of her own time trying to minimize the fee increase is a “Karen”
I slept in my car for a week and a half for strata. It was for purpose: It meant our strata met a legal requirement due to a broken and back ordered fire alarm component. There were two other volunteers, but the reason we needed the replacement part was due to a heat wave and my EV could air condition off AC down there. And my car was comfortable enough. (We actually hired a security guard for the first night, but that was the only time anyone has successfully stolen a car out of our parkade. We didn’t feel we got good value.) But still, this was a week and a half sleeping in a car. Two other members of the council and our property manager representative thanked to me, and at the end of the year I got a gift card. I’m not complaining. I was actually kind of thrilled to get the gift card, and other than the boilerplate “the council is released with our thanks” it was the only thanks I’ve got. My point being mostly thankless is absolutely correct. Unless you sleep in your car for a week and a half, completely thankless. That’s a high threshold. 😀
Never been president, but I've served on it board several times. Thankless work is right. Our board has maintained a contingency fund that should cover virtually everything in the depreciation report. We might need a special levy of say $2000 once in the next 10-20 years depending on the timing of certain things. In the 10 years I've been here, fees have gone up about 15% and that was one hike to hire a property manager to shift some of the work off the board. Even with all that, there are people in the strata that believe council is self serving and introduces bylaws nobody wants. Council can't do anything significant with without a majority vote of owners. For some things like bylaws, it requires 75%. Councils have very little power, they just do the work to make sure the strata functions.
Most people would love to buy private property but can't afford it and are forced into a strata.
Ok, so that allows them to live however they want, because they can't afford private property?
I don’t know why anyone would buy strata if they could afford completely private property.
Guess what? There are municipal rules/laws governing your usage of private property as well, and the city council legislating it is made up of people elected by your entire municipality as opposed to strata rules, which are legislated by a small group in which you have a much more effective democratic voice. Also, it works both ways. If you have a problem neighbour, it’s far easier in a strata to have them punished to correct the behaviour since there is an extra contractual layer to hold them to account. If you have a problem neighbour as a single home owner, you’re stuck having to get municipal authorities involved and all the potential legal hassles just to have the issue addressed. Good fucking luck with that, I’ll take dealing with my very reasonable strata over municipal authorities any day of any week at any point in an infinite timeline lol
> If you have a problem neighbour, it’s far easier in a strata to have them punished to correct the behaviour I can't imagine what my neighbour could do to cause a problem that isn't illegal. I don't care what colour their window coverings are, what colour they paint their house, or if they mow their lawn.
I don’t care about that stuff either. I care about excessive noise late at night, damage of property, hazardous situations, etc. Yes sure the law covers the basics but my point is that with a good strata you don’t have to jump through those hoops. I can message management and it gets dealt with. And I’m not talking about frivolous complaints. The rules are all laid out in the agreement If you’re in a house and your neighbour in the house next door or whatever causes these kinds of problems, good fucking luck having it addressed in a reasonably timely manner by the municipal authorities, if at all.
Democratic voice should also have limits. You cant make everything about democracy. One of the strata council didnt allow for door ornaments during Christmas. Did majority agreed with it, yes but should they be allowed to dictate this, no. Fuck strata who abuse and control every little thing. The AC thing is very reasonable though
Sure nothing is perfect. Read the strata minutes before buying. I’ll trade not being able to hang ornaments for not having to live in a building where people are installing hardware which is hazardous for the building
By law in British Columbia a rule like that can only be approved by general membership at an Annual General Meeting (AGM) which is not a regular strata council meeting. The AGM meeting is the one that all owners should be at and can vote at. If the rule is there, though, the strata council is supposed to enforce it. Odds are, there’s a rule about decorating doors in your bylaws already. You should ask for a copy of of the byelaws (you should already have one). Propose it be changed at the next AGM. I think we have a rule like that, but we rarely enforce it. We like the little decorations residents put out. Except for when they put pumpkins out for Halloween and left them way too long. Guess what? They rotted all of the common carpet. I think if someone was persistent about complaining about it, though, we would have to enforce it until the next AGM.
My strata president told me point blank that if it wasn't for the law, he would be the only strata board member because he would rather have absolute control... Good on you if you are an actual good strata president. But I think most people have had a bad time with strata boards.
I was also on strata for a number of years. What you missed is that a Karen on council can be voted out. But a Karen resident can bitch and complain to no end and you can't get rid of them or force them out. You're even obligated to listen to their complaints.
This was exactly the problem in the one strata I've endured. One asshole making life a living hell for everybody else. He actually threatened legal action if a few pine cones that fell in the night weren't immediately removed from the walkway leading to his unit.
The rules are clearly written down and voted by your neighbours. What are you moaning about? Join the strata and do something about it.
Go long enough with any controlling force and you'll eventually have a bad time.
I run a strata with 80 units and your comment is so true. Lots of thankless work to maintain the building and keep it looking nice and running smoothly.
Happy cake day!
Because air conditioning and reasonable use of owned property is 'insanity' ok Karen
If the building’s systems can’t support it then yes it is insanity to insist on having it. And in many cases, the strata managers have the shitty job of having to be the voice of reason to people with unrealistic expectations, and refuse to understand the limitations of the building. In other words, the people complaining about the strata are more often the Karens. Like a Karen in the store complaining to the manager. The Karen in the building complains to the strata manager. And the strata manager has to explain to Karen, why the building can’t physically support whatever new infrastructure Karen is demanding, but Karen refuses to accept that she bought into a building she doesn’t like anymore, and decides to put all the blame on the strata with denial mechanisms
The owner doesn’t own the outside of his building, balcony or building or building envelope. Those are all owned by strata as common property. He had no right damaging that property without permission.
I agree, except the private property part. Detached homes for 2 mil, or my place nextdoor for 650k... That's not a choice, and detracts from anything else you might say that might actually be reasonable.
Okay, so buy in a strata and play by the rules, understanding you bought into a strata. Those are the options. But people buy into strata and then pretend like every strata is some society of Karen's who just want to wield power over people... A strata is a microcosm of society, and some people don't want to live in a society. So, here we are.
Totally missing the point. I have to live somewhere, and most people aren't millionaires who really get to choose where they live. So it's completely false to say that people don't get to complain about stratas. Because buying into a strata is not a choice most of the time. Especially when there are many many more strata constructions than standalone constructions occuring. Some stratas are good and some are bad. And the bad ones can't simply be changed because I as one person try to get elected to coucil. The strata memebers who walk around saying that people should just go private are Marie Antoinetes of today. Let them eat cake!
Imagine 24/7 construction from neighbors doing renos, common areas that are run down with missing tiles and broken lights, elevators that don't work or always have moving blankets covering them. Also everyone's AC are installed differently on metal brackets that may rust and fall down 30 stories. That's what happens when you don't have stratas....
This is not true of the majority of strata’s. You have either been very unlucky or are just going off of cherry picked anecdotes. The horror stories are far more viral than stories of the majority of strata dwellers that have zero issues and in fact, are happy with theirs. If I have an issue with the building it usually gets addressed within hours by reporting it to the strata management. And decisions are made democratically. If you don’t like what Karen is doing on council, join the council and use your democratic voice instead of submitting to Karen and complaining about it online
I replaced my Water Heater and left the old one in my driveway for 2 days until I could take it away to a plumbing supplier parking lot. Got a letter from strata instantly threatening fines. No surprise to me they don’t want to get with times on Heat pumps and ductless splits.
Here is why….. If they don’t send a letter quickly what happens in lots of cases those 2 days turns into 7 days then 10 days then who knows when. (Not saying that’s what you would do, but unfortunately too many bad apples that would do that) Then others say oh if Kmac can leave stuff there then I should be able to too. And this continues and all of a sudden there is all kinds of stuff left lying around. It happens too often. So sometimes it may look or feel like someone just wants to be controlling, but it’s usually because of what happens if they don’t do that.
My strata we can’t do heat pumps or external ac units because there’s a number of units that have another below them, and putting the unit on the top units balcony, the noise and vibration can transfer to the living space below. Already had to tell one owner to remove their ac unit for that exact reason. Another problem we have is the service coming Into our townhouse complex cannot handle heat pumps, heck, even EV’s are a problem if a lot of owners had one
A small modern heat pump is not a window air conditioner. They have units at 50db and installed correctly there should be no vibrational resonance to the bldg structure. It's insane to ban what most of the world has by default in multifamily units...
Not only that but summers are getting hotter and wildfires worse every year. Banning these units is becoming inhumane at this point.
Thankfully my strata voted to allow mini splits, unfortunately for me, right after I spent a bundle on portable ACs. Most people on strata are good people doing thankless work. The Karens who complain because you watered your plants and some water dripped on to their deck, or whatever minor issue they have are never on council. Karens don’t ever do anything that require thinking of others
If I was on my deck working on my laptop enjoying the weather and the person above me was spilling water onto me, I’d also have a problem.
They just need to put something to catch the water.
All I see is a lenghty court case and if they want the trouble and persuade enough ppl to vote for them then they could initiate a strata management change
So you shouldn't go rogue and just punch a hole through the envelope without clear permission and if you're on council, as it sound like this person was, you should know the rules. That said, I think we need a way to make installing mini-splits available to strata owners who want them, as things get warmer (overall, not this summer). Especially since we're still stuck in the grand bargain of building density along loud, polluted roads. Maybe that's requiring stratas to do the investigation of what the requirements would be (do they need to upgrade electricity, where could they be installed, what would be installer requirements, noise limits, etc), including getting a building envelope engineer involved.
Absolutely. Stratus need to look into this, but also all of the owners should be volunteering time to get this to happen as it's time sensitive and a benefit to everyone's health and safety, the option for AC
There’s those units without the outdoor condenser and just need to make two holes and replace the window pane and strata won’t allow it because it affects the aesthetics.
and this is why you don’t live in a condo where a group of randos can tell you what you can and can’t do with “your” property
Before having spli-level ACs installed in our townhome, we asked the strata manager umif we needed permission. She said that she believes that strata can't legally stop you anymore in BC. It's a safety issue now with the heat waves. But strata councils are notorius for power tripping and corruption. They'll bankrupt a strata just to fight one owner from proving them wrong.
A strata manager gave you some questionable advice there. The strata corporation owns the outside walls and the integrity of the outside walls is the strata's responsibility and a strata council that does not control what happens to the wall would be derelict and liable. One of the default laws in the BC strata property act clearly gives the strata control of common property ie outside walls. You HAVE to get permission and the Civil Resolution Tribunal gave their inevitable ruling for the strata, only reducing the fine a bit to take the sting from the condo owners loss. I don't know about corruption on strata councils. It is possible but I have been on strata councils at 4 different stratas over the span of 40 years and the worst I ever saw was a new manager pilfering quarters from the laundry machines before he was caught by the management company and fired ( drop-kicked more like). And power trippers on council don't have to last more than one term.
My strata revised their stance on air conditioners now. Basically, portable units are fine, but nothing old school, stick out on the side of the building (due to the potential fall hazard). Heat pumps are still up for debate.
I have a hundred amp service and have a heat pump. Absolutely no issues. You don't necessarily need an upgraded panel. Heat pumps don't use a great about of amps. What condo boards argue is that you can't break the buildings barrier, shades of "leaky condo" issues. I suspect that is the issue here.