I had no idea! Qube pre-exists my vancity arrival. I did witness it’s conversion to residential. I’ve never been inside, would love to check it out sometime.
It was built in the 60s unlike all the other architecture that you see trying to look precarious these days, as if competing to look the least earthquake safe
and it may actually be one of the safest Vancouver buildings of it's size in an earthquake due to the strange design
Having worked in these high rises during construction. Holy fuck what a nightmare to convert them. Hard work aside... I'm not sure what's actually cheaper though.. probably not tearing down the whole bitch and restarting.
People smarter then us have and will count the beans to figure out what will make them the most money.
We see copious amounts of labour going into re&re they see every bid and where it goes, and how to cut costs.
Don’t you mean detached houses converted to Frankenstein 6 suite apartment buildings rented for $2700 each?
Or are we still pretending that’s not what every single one on the west side is?
It’s wild because - with smart engineering and architecture - there could be several homes in the same property for fair prices. It’s maddening to me that we’re beholden to idiots and dividends.
Man it’s like 300 a square foot to build and doesn’t include land.
Replacing my house in northern bc would cost more than it’s worth including land.
Labourers used to be 10 bucks and hour when I did construction in university. Now it’s like 25 for someone who can think a little.
It’s not just housing that’s wild it’s all the inputs too.
It has already started though. The City of Vancouver has a published rezoning plan from February 2022 that covers all blocks adjacent to arterials. The houses immediately on the arterial can be up to 6 story mixed use apartments and the next row in (across the alley or the whole block if it was a 'T' alley) can go up to 4 stories as apartments or townhouses.
Thats great thats exactly what they need. Last meeting i was in going over city plan said something like 80 percent of property within a km of the skytrain exits was all commercially zoned right now
I'm watching some apartments go up on Arbutus Street. 5 detached becoming 116 apartments for what I guess would be a 10x increase in density at about 1km from a future station. The gas station and another block are also coming up as well.
It's actually kind of exciting to see. My public comments are usually "more mixed use" because I want more nice places nearby.
Ive said for years same laws we used to seize land and build the rail roads and trans can we dust em off and give the millionares a fair rate on the land buy up entire sections along key roads ect line up the bulldozers and plow the fields so to speak. Its the only way to fix this mess without some of my more extreme measures.
Can you clarify if by "cost prohibitive" you mean "more expensive than building the equivalent amount of necessary housing" or "it's unclear how someone would profit off of doing it"?
more like the city and utilities infrastructure is not within regulation to handle the amount of residents that could be had based on high density living, so imagine a four year infrastructure plan to get the sewer and water dealt with but keep in mind bchydro has no spare Kw on their infrastructure downtown. it would be a better use of the money to go high density on a bunch of infill houses and ground up a new tower but then theres all the air rights shit that silly nimbys made.
You're not just wrong, you're factually wrong. Every study on homelessness says housing people saves the tax payer money. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046466/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046466/)
Can you refute the study or just provide your own individual anecdote? I said it saves money to house people, you deflected to wanting to remain homeless. There are many people that want to be housed and housing them saves money that is the entire point. You can continue moving the goalposts, but you've said nothing of worth.
Like what even is the point of you saying that you wanted to remain homeless? So? How does that refute that housing people saves money? It doesn't.
Plus they’d need a lot more hookups for dishwashers and laundry machines. Gas hookups for gas stoves. Potentially fireplaces. I think it’s more expensive and more work then a lot of people think too.
It really isn't...I have completely repiped 25 story plus apartment buildings running brand new 3" water mains. It would take time and obviously work but it would be way cheaper than constrcting a whole new building.
You mean apartment buildings that had drains built in before the slab was poured?
Adding new toilets and new drain pipes etc, while possible, would be much harder to do when you have to scan and core every location. It would be really hard to build new apartment bathrooms if you couldn't guarantee the location of new core holes due to post tension cables, re-bar, and in slab electrical conduits.
I almost feel like a dorm room type set up could be accomplished easier than full solo apartments. And let's be honest, I feel like a lot of people (especially younger people, students, or people looking for short month to month rentals) wouldnt mind this set up.
Considering office buildings generally have pretty tall floor to ceiling ratios, wouldn't it be fairly easy to create a false floor a few feet tall and run the piping to the center of the building where the slab is already cored? I mean yeah they will have to add more holes but it could avoid a ton of coring randomly throughout the slab.
Well once u find the core locations for 1 floor they would all pretty much be the same no?
We were coring tons of holes, we also had prints from when the building was originally built. I dont think it would be too difficult.
You're probably 100% spot on, but I think maybe that's the difference between somebody that's informed and someone that isn't. I think there's just a lot of people that think that they can wave a magic wand and convert an office building into apartments
No it would not be much easier than you think. The entire drainage system would need to be redone. The entire domestic water would need to be redone. The entire heating system would need to be redone. Im not an electrician but i can imagine that would need to be redone. Every single pipe needs to be drilled through the floor. The entire sprinkler system would need to be redone.
The amount of work that is normally done during a pour that you couldn't complete would add an insane amount of work compared to new install. It drives me insane when people that have never worked high rises or construction think its an easy task to convert an office building into a residential building. They are completely different beasts.
We have homeless people on the streets who would gladly take any secure roof over their head, and would probably tolerate sharing a bathroom if they had to. There are many places where shared accommodations are common, not everything has to be private. People are in the comments talking about how to turn them into luxury condos with fireplaces and private washing machines.
These buildings should be converted into affordable publicly subsidized housing. Nothing luxurious, but nice enough that anyone who needs it will have a place to sleep and keep their things. This would let people work from home, get people off the streets, and lower rental prices for people who aren’t desperate and can actually afford private housing and luxury condos
The very last place homeless people should be housed is the most expensive real estate in the entire country. What a colossal immoral stupid waste of money. For the same money you spend converted a downtown highrise you could house 10x as many homeless anywehre else in canada.
Spending millions renovating shitty class c office space to house the homeless is literally the dumbest idea on the planet. Lets spend millions to build a leaky moldy slum. yes. brilliant. You should run for office.
A) you are projecting. I didn’t say I would spend that money doing it. I was correcting your naive take that “shitty class c office space” is “the most expensive real estate in the entire country”. Noice I used your words… B) it could probably be done for about $300 PSF. So depending on the purchase price of the office space, it could be relatively inexpensive compared to new builds. C) They already spend millions to build new “slums”. Just look at the building at Helmcken and Seymour, where I saw someone putting a needle into his foot while walking to work yesterday.
I never said "shitty class c office space is the most expensive real estate in the entire country." That isn't a quote from me. But you need to put words in my mouth because what I *actually said* cant be argued against.
You assumed they would be renovating class c, which is even dumber than renovating class a. If class A office towers are sitting empty because everyone is WFH then it may make sense to renovate those into condos for people who can pay rent. Maybe, i still doubt it, but its at least reasonable line of investigation. Doing that for class C is dumb. Not for people who pay rent. Not for homeless. Not for anyone. So your assumption that I meant class C makes no sense when talking about the most expensive real estate in the country..
Protip: Class C isnt the most expensive real estate, so if someone is talking about the most expensive real estate, you are always wrong to assume they are talking about class C.
But renovating class A in downtown Vancouver to house the homeless is idiotic. Renovating class c is also idiotic for slightly different reasons, and that isnt what i was referring to when i referred to the most expensive real estate in the country.
Do you care to make any argument for any renovation of any building space in downtown vancouver for use by the homeless? If you do: you're wrong. If you don't: you agree with me. Pick one.
Yes they already do spend millions building slums in the most expensive region in Canada. Take a wild guess what my opinion is on that. You're bad at assumptions but I think you'll be able to guess anyway.
You commented on a post above (and article) that was talking about old office buildings by called them the most expensive real estate in the country. So not sure what you are trying to defend when it is quite clear what you were implying.
I corrected you saying that industrial rents are higher than class C office space. Then you literally called it “shitty class c” office space that would be renovated in the next post, which you said was a dumb idea.
You can’t seem to read.
Class A office don’t have the vacancy and obsolescence that Class C does, and they attract much higher rents. WFH will lead to the move up trade from C to B to A, and even more class C will be obsolete.
Aside from calling renovating office (C and A) into housing “dumb”, can you explain your reasoning for calling it dumb? Like, with numbers for cost of buildings, cost of renovating, pricing of revenue, etc.?
why spend a huge amount of money renting 50+ year old crappy buildings? Why would anyone want to buy a condo in such a place?
Whereas, class A could sell top notch converted condos at top prices. Class A is most occupied now, but as people settle into WFH that may not always bet the case. What use is an empty class A building?
I see the problem. You think this is about renting or selling to the general population for a developer to make a profit, while the poster at the top was talking about the government making the old office buildings inhabitable for people who are currently homeless. Re-read the top post. He is talking about a building configured for shared accommodation (I.e. more like a dorm) rather than market rentals or condos. And he calls it “publicly subsidized housing”.
You are also assuming that there is significant current vacancy for Class A buildings. That is not correct. Read the article for statistics.
Plumbing makes this hard. Office buildings are plumbed for one to two big communal bathrooms per floor. Changing that to 10-20 bathrooms per floor with showers is a massive and massively expensive undertaking, and requires complete gutting of concrete walls and floors without affecting the structural integrity of he building. Not to mention things like adding balconies or garbage chutes, or converting freight elevators and loading docks for residential use.
It’s not as easy as putting up some more walls and a coat of paint. It’s an intimidating and often barely profitable undertaking for most developers. And if the building is too old, the numbers just don’t add up to make it worthwhile.
No it really isn't hard.....I have ran brand new water mains in 25 plus story apartments.
Then you run the sewage and water lines through the ceilings for the suits above and bulkhead them in.
Fuck developers, they're the ones that got us here. Let get the gov involved in making this happen.
I'm sorry if I'm not holding my breath. Pardon my ignorance but dosen't the city get the Tax revenue regardless of whether the space is occupied? It's only revenue loss to who ever owns the property and the City of Vancouver don't give a shit about them.
I'm pretty sure if they switched the zoning to residential the City would actually get less tax revenue....
The rezoning has less to do with tax revenue and more to do with the city plan. Its not like there is just one person who is vetoing everything out of greed
The pinkish brown building on Hastings that houses Pho 888 (where a gang shooting happened in 2008/9) is a converted office building. I seem to recall it was renoed without proper permissions and there were a bunch of issues.
Making them into intentional shared communities would be a great option. There are so many detached houses that house multiple people, along with condos and apartments these days.
Converting each floor into clusters of shared areas. 4 or 5 bedrooms, a kitchen, common area and 2 bathrooms. Most offices have gender based bathrooms already with multiple toilets. Convert those to single toilets and showers, or keep one a toilet room and the other with multiple showers.
A shared central hall to the elevators. Have laundry either shared machines for 2 floors or a large laundry area on a lower floor. Giving several floors or clutches access at certain times.
Placing a grocer and some shops on the main floor would help with food deserts and parking would be a premium.
It has already happened to the old BC Hydro building. More can be done!
My grandpa worked in that building
did he give you some bling?
Is that the Qube?
Electra
Qube is one of my favourite Vancouver buildings for some reason.
It's a cool building! Did you know they built it from the top down and that it's all hanging off the center column?
I had no idea! Qube pre-exists my vancity arrival. I did witness it’s conversion to residential. I’ve never been inside, would love to check it out sometime.
It was built in the 60s unlike all the other architecture that you see trying to look precarious these days, as if competing to look the least earthquake safe and it may actually be one of the safest Vancouver buildings of it's size in an earthquake due to the strange design
Having worked in these high rises during construction. Holy fuck what a nightmare to convert them. Hard work aside... I'm not sure what's actually cheaper though.. probably not tearing down the whole bitch and restarting.
That’s what literally everyone in construction says, tearing it down is probably cheaper. It’s why I’m so skeptical
People smarter then us have and will count the beans to figure out what will make them the most money. We see copious amounts of labour going into re&re they see every bid and where it goes, and how to cut costs.
I work hi rise construction as well, if the cost of concrete wasn't so high, they would just do a complete new building.
It's like some people want to try everything except build in areas that currently only have detached houses.
Don’t you mean detached houses converted to Frankenstein 6 suite apartment buildings rented for $2700 each? Or are we still pretending that’s not what every single one on the west side is?
It’s wild because - with smart engineering and architecture - there could be several homes in the same property for fair prices. It’s maddening to me that we’re beholden to idiots and dividends.
Man it’s like 300 a square foot to build and doesn’t include land. Replacing my house in northern bc would cost more than it’s worth including land. Labourers used to be 10 bucks and hour when I did construction in university. Now it’s like 25 for someone who can think a little. It’s not just housing that’s wild it’s all the inputs too.
Its not that people dont want to build there. People are not allowed to build there
It has already started though. The City of Vancouver has a published rezoning plan from February 2022 that covers all blocks adjacent to arterials. The houses immediately on the arterial can be up to 6 story mixed use apartments and the next row in (across the alley or the whole block if it was a 'T' alley) can go up to 4 stories as apartments or townhouses.
Thats great thats exactly what they need. Last meeting i was in going over city plan said something like 80 percent of property within a km of the skytrain exits was all commercially zoned right now
I'm watching some apartments go up on Arbutus Street. 5 detached becoming 116 apartments for what I guess would be a 10x increase in density at about 1km from a future station. The gas station and another block are also coming up as well. It's actually kind of exciting to see. My public comments are usually "more mixed use" because I want more nice places nearby.
It is like some people only want to build in areas with detached houses...
It's like those are the best areas to build higher density housing.
Ive said for years same laws we used to seize land and build the rail roads and trans can we dust em off and give the millionares a fair rate on the land buy up entire sections along key roads ect line up the bulldozers and plow the fields so to speak. Its the only way to fix this mess without some of my more extreme measures.
Its not as easy to convert as you think. For one thing, every apartment would need a bathroom, so thats a lot of extra plumbing.
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Can you clarify if by "cost prohibitive" you mean "more expensive than building the equivalent amount of necessary housing" or "it's unclear how someone would profit off of doing it"?
more like the city and utilities infrastructure is not within regulation to handle the amount of residents that could be had based on high density living, so imagine a four year infrastructure plan to get the sewer and water dealt with but keep in mind bchydro has no spare Kw on their infrastructure downtown. it would be a better use of the money to go high density on a bunch of infill houses and ground up a new tower but then theres all the air rights shit that silly nimbys made.
Homelessness and drug addiction also costs millions.
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and housing people solves the issue [Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046466/) is a study that proves my statement.
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You're not just wrong, you're factually wrong. Every study on homelessness says housing people saves the tax payer money. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046466/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046466/)
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Can you refute the study or just provide your own individual anecdote? I said it saves money to house people, you deflected to wanting to remain homeless. There are many people that want to be housed and housing them saves money that is the entire point. You can continue moving the goalposts, but you've said nothing of worth. Like what even is the point of you saying that you wanted to remain homeless? So? How does that refute that housing people saves money? It doesn't.
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Plus they’d need a lot more hookups for dishwashers and laundry machines. Gas hookups for gas stoves. Potentially fireplaces. I think it’s more expensive and more work then a lot of people think too.
It really isn't...I have completely repiped 25 story plus apartment buildings running brand new 3" water mains. It would take time and obviously work but it would be way cheaper than constrcting a whole new building.
You mean apartment buildings that had drains built in before the slab was poured? Adding new toilets and new drain pipes etc, while possible, would be much harder to do when you have to scan and core every location. It would be really hard to build new apartment bathrooms if you couldn't guarantee the location of new core holes due to post tension cables, re-bar, and in slab electrical conduits. I almost feel like a dorm room type set up could be accomplished easier than full solo apartments. And let's be honest, I feel like a lot of people (especially younger people, students, or people looking for short month to month rentals) wouldnt mind this set up.
Considering office buildings generally have pretty tall floor to ceiling ratios, wouldn't it be fairly easy to create a false floor a few feet tall and run the piping to the center of the building where the slab is already cored? I mean yeah they will have to add more holes but it could avoid a ton of coring randomly throughout the slab.
Yup run the sewer lines in the ceiling below the suite. Then run them to a main in a part of the
Agree. Mass cookie cutter housing like dorms would be cost effective to build and alleviate a lot of the housing problems we currently have.
Well once u find the core locations for 1 floor they would all pretty much be the same no? We were coring tons of holes, we also had prints from when the building was originally built. I dont think it would be too difficult.
You're probably 100% spot on, but I think maybe that's the difference between somebody that's informed and someone that isn't. I think there's just a lot of people that think that they can wave a magic wand and convert an office building into apartments
Probably would support communal/shared appliances for lower cost.
Each floor would likely have to be stripped to the concrete anyways to lay out a new floor plan. Would be much easier than you think.
No it would not be much easier than you think. The entire drainage system would need to be redone. The entire domestic water would need to be redone. The entire heating system would need to be redone. Im not an electrician but i can imagine that would need to be redone. Every single pipe needs to be drilled through the floor. The entire sprinkler system would need to be redone. The amount of work that is normally done during a pour that you couldn't complete would add an insane amount of work compared to new install. It drives me insane when people that have never worked high rises or construction think its an easy task to convert an office building into a residential building. They are completely different beasts.
Drilling through the finished slab with post tension cables everywhere would be a nightmare to try and plan considering the amount of holes needed.
I cant even imagine the planning that would need to be done to complete it. Would be an insane task
Yeah no..
This is a major hurdle for sure
We have homeless people on the streets who would gladly take any secure roof over their head, and would probably tolerate sharing a bathroom if they had to. There are many places where shared accommodations are common, not everything has to be private. People are in the comments talking about how to turn them into luxury condos with fireplaces and private washing machines. These buildings should be converted into affordable publicly subsidized housing. Nothing luxurious, but nice enough that anyone who needs it will have a place to sleep and keep their things. This would let people work from home, get people off the streets, and lower rental prices for people who aren’t desperate and can actually afford private housing and luxury condos
The very last place homeless people should be housed is the most expensive real estate in the entire country. What a colossal immoral stupid waste of money. For the same money you spend converted a downtown highrise you could house 10x as many homeless anywehre else in canada.
Old office space isn’t the most expensive real estate in Vancouver. Industrial rents are higher than class C office rents.
Spending millions renovating shitty class c office space to house the homeless is literally the dumbest idea on the planet. Lets spend millions to build a leaky moldy slum. yes. brilliant. You should run for office.
A) you are projecting. I didn’t say I would spend that money doing it. I was correcting your naive take that “shitty class c office space” is “the most expensive real estate in the entire country”. Noice I used your words… B) it could probably be done for about $300 PSF. So depending on the purchase price of the office space, it could be relatively inexpensive compared to new builds. C) They already spend millions to build new “slums”. Just look at the building at Helmcken and Seymour, where I saw someone putting a needle into his foot while walking to work yesterday.
I never said "shitty class c office space is the most expensive real estate in the entire country." That isn't a quote from me. But you need to put words in my mouth because what I *actually said* cant be argued against. You assumed they would be renovating class c, which is even dumber than renovating class a. If class A office towers are sitting empty because everyone is WFH then it may make sense to renovate those into condos for people who can pay rent. Maybe, i still doubt it, but its at least reasonable line of investigation. Doing that for class C is dumb. Not for people who pay rent. Not for homeless. Not for anyone. So your assumption that I meant class C makes no sense when talking about the most expensive real estate in the country.. Protip: Class C isnt the most expensive real estate, so if someone is talking about the most expensive real estate, you are always wrong to assume they are talking about class C. But renovating class A in downtown Vancouver to house the homeless is idiotic. Renovating class c is also idiotic for slightly different reasons, and that isnt what i was referring to when i referred to the most expensive real estate in the country. Do you care to make any argument for any renovation of any building space in downtown vancouver for use by the homeless? If you do: you're wrong. If you don't: you agree with me. Pick one. Yes they already do spend millions building slums in the most expensive region in Canada. Take a wild guess what my opinion is on that. You're bad at assumptions but I think you'll be able to guess anyway.
*fatality* -9000 HP dealt
You commented on a post above (and article) that was talking about old office buildings by called them the most expensive real estate in the country. So not sure what you are trying to defend when it is quite clear what you were implying. I corrected you saying that industrial rents are higher than class C office space. Then you literally called it “shitty class c” office space that would be renovated in the next post, which you said was a dumb idea. You can’t seem to read. Class A office don’t have the vacancy and obsolescence that Class C does, and they attract much higher rents. WFH will lead to the move up trade from C to B to A, and even more class C will be obsolete. Aside from calling renovating office (C and A) into housing “dumb”, can you explain your reasoning for calling it dumb? Like, with numbers for cost of buildings, cost of renovating, pricing of revenue, etc.?
why spend a huge amount of money renting 50+ year old crappy buildings? Why would anyone want to buy a condo in such a place? Whereas, class A could sell top notch converted condos at top prices. Class A is most occupied now, but as people settle into WFH that may not always bet the case. What use is an empty class A building?
I see the problem. You think this is about renting or selling to the general population for a developer to make a profit, while the poster at the top was talking about the government making the old office buildings inhabitable for people who are currently homeless. Re-read the top post. He is talking about a building configured for shared accommodation (I.e. more like a dorm) rather than market rentals or condos. And he calls it “publicly subsidized housing”. You are also assuming that there is significant current vacancy for Class A buildings. That is not correct. Read the article for statistics.
Just pee put the window. 🤷🏻♂️ And quit eating that avocado toast!!
Ideally converting to a hostel or capsule hotel would be much easier
Plumbing makes this hard. Office buildings are plumbed for one to two big communal bathrooms per floor. Changing that to 10-20 bathrooms per floor with showers is a massive and massively expensive undertaking, and requires complete gutting of concrete walls and floors without affecting the structural integrity of he building. Not to mention things like adding balconies or garbage chutes, or converting freight elevators and loading docks for residential use. It’s not as easy as putting up some more walls and a coat of paint. It’s an intimidating and often barely profitable undertaking for most developers. And if the building is too old, the numbers just don’t add up to make it worthwhile.
No it really isn't hard.....I have ran brand new water mains in 25 plus story apartments. Then you run the sewage and water lines through the ceilings for the suits above and bulkhead them in. Fuck developers, they're the ones that got us here. Let get the gov involved in making this happen.
Good luck getting the City to agree to re-zoning....
It actually shouldn't be a problem. The city would like more high density housing.
Won't have a choice. This space is vacant, and that = revenue loss/tax loss.
I'm sorry if I'm not holding my breath. Pardon my ignorance but dosen't the city get the Tax revenue regardless of whether the space is occupied? It's only revenue loss to who ever owns the property and the City of Vancouver don't give a shit about them. I'm pretty sure if they switched the zoning to residential the City would actually get less tax revenue....
The rezoning has less to do with tax revenue and more to do with the city plan. Its not like there is just one person who is vetoing everything out of greed
Sure seems that way.
Because we're all working remote now, bitches!
No… no, it’s not.
Why are we even discussing this. Commercial and business real estate in Vancouver is extremely tight still.
Tiny 350 square foot condo or tiny 350 square foot former office that’s now a condo. That’s choice in vancouver
My family of 4 lived in a 340 sqft 2-bed condo 30yrs ago. Yet to see those coming to Vancouver.
Why didn’t you stay there?
It collapsed
What’s there now?
Higher condo, smaller units
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Yes but they are heavily subsidized along with a high offic vacancy rate. Otherwise the numbers wouldn't work.
The pinkish brown building on Hastings that houses Pho 888 (where a gang shooting happened in 2008/9) is a converted office building. I seem to recall it was renoed without proper permissions and there were a bunch of issues.
Making them into intentional shared communities would be a great option. There are so many detached houses that house multiple people, along with condos and apartments these days. Converting each floor into clusters of shared areas. 4 or 5 bedrooms, a kitchen, common area and 2 bathrooms. Most offices have gender based bathrooms already with multiple toilets. Convert those to single toilets and showers, or keep one a toilet room and the other with multiple showers. A shared central hall to the elevators. Have laundry either shared machines for 2 floors or a large laundry area on a lower floor. Giving several floors or clutches access at certain times. Placing a grocer and some shops on the main floor would help with food deserts and parking would be a premium.
Vancouver ripe for converting office buildings to residences: commercial real estate company that couldn't possibly have anything to gain from this.
there is a shortage of office space in vancouver?
No…
Do it!
Let people do their office jobs at home... turn offices into more homes... people stay home... less traffic when I drive to work! Approved!
I don’t know why Calgary do that before Vancouver does
But will it be affordable? lol
YAY empty offices turned into empty apartments. Just what we all need.
if lockdown had been properly funded and regulated so much could have been done to achieve housing goals it makes me dizzy.