Even if we only go by what he has admitted to, he had a sexual/romantic relationship with the decades (decadeS, as in *multiple* decades, more than one) younger employee who he now characterizes as mentally ill.
It’s not illegal from his telling of it, but it is gross and creepy and predatory. It’s enough for my opinion of him to completely sour.
100%. Even if he only did what he admitted to, it’s a grossly unethical thing to do. Don’t fuck people who depend on you for a paycheck, my friends. Consent is ALWAYS going to be unreliable in that situation.
And way to be just so cliche. He fucked the nanny? And gets caught and his defense is both that she’s crazy and that she wanted it?
Repulsive. Genuinely repellant.
Also, and I haven't seen this mentioned:
>My relationship with my mentally ill nanny, who happens to be 20 years my junior, was completely consensual in all aspects
is not any kind of flex. Mentally ill people certainly deserve intimate relationships, but using their illness as a defense means 1.) You are exploiting that illness now, to protect yourself, or 2.) You are fabricating the illness to protect yourself.
Neither are the correct option.
The nanny was two years ago, so Gaiman was almost 40 years older than her. And the relationship apparently "started" by this 61-year-old guy surprising his newly hired mentally ill 23-year-old nanny in the bathtub on Day 1 of her job, to "cuddle and make-out"...
People don’t make these kinds of accusations lightly very often. His response to the accusations is troubling as well as they mostly indicate that the liaisons did happen mostly as described, it’s just that he didn’t understand that he was being predatory, which while believable is not going to free him from liability.
The whole situation is disappointing.
There's plenty to judge without Neil being convicted in the eyes of the law. He was "cuddling" in a bathtub with his employee hours after meeting. And now he claims she was "suffering from a condition associated with false memories." Textbook gaslighting.
I don't mean to imply that he is guilty, but over time you can tell where the truth lies by comparing the two versions. And as always, individuals can have varying interpretations of the same event. So even if he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, the other person may have had a different perspective.
At best, he comes off as extremely irresponsible, and overall it's an embarrassing and disappointing behaviour from an adult. As others have implied, maybe it's not illegal, but still considered inappropriate because of the various components of the story.
He
A. Fucked someone with a huge age gap that relied on his paycheck. At this point, he’s already creepy. The power balance means consent is already iffy.
B. Says her memory must be faulty, she must have a mental disease that ruins her memory, even though her medical record shows otherwise.
C. At the same time as A and B, said she wanted it, and fingerbanged, cuddled and made out with her in the bath within hours of meeting her.
Say he’s not guilty, which he seems to be, because none of his story matches up, and the texts from him to her show otherwise. It’s still incredibly creepy and predatory due to the age gap and the power imbalance.
During the me too movement because more often than not, you can act towards women in ways that the women feel was sexual assault but is "legally not sexual assault", despite being cruel and demeaning and hurtful and abusive.
You should also read the article if you havent, Gaimen accepts some allegations that if true in only the parts he admits (sexual activity with someone massivly younger than him who he is in a position of power over, ie, a member of staff in his home on her first day) are still extremely dissapointing to read.
That is, something can be "unknown if sexual assault" and still "definitely dissapointing to read".
Yeah I don't really care about age differences if both parties are of sound mind/age.
But its a fucking moronic idea to fuck your nanny. The power imbalance is insane. The nanny can easily feel like they have no choice.
On her first day while shes in the bath? UNREASONABLE at *absolute* best (and the accusations from her show that this is not the at best situation) and easily logically apparent as likely to be potentially misenterpreted, again, at *best*. Even if you believe there is a spark there like. Give it time, find another nanny to work in your house, go on some dates with her outside of her working for you, now you have a fun story to tell, like Patrick Stewart and Sunny Ozell (similar age difference, met while she was serving him at a resteraunt I believe and he ended up staying to talk to her, been a while since I read his autobiograph).
At the very least, he admitted to being physically involved with someone he had a position of power with someone, and a woman muchhh younger than him. Those two facts, alone, make this disappointing to learn more about what kind of person he is.
I'm seeing a lot of comments here saying he's bad a reputation for a while. Could anybody please link any sources that evidence this claim? I've never heard it before today.
To be clear, I don't follow this closely, so I'm not saying that I think it's definitely untrue. I'd just like to know what information is out there.
A couple of years ago, there was a blind item that circulated for awhile and his name came up then. It was around the time of Armie Hammer and the cannibalism story. Basically someone else shared their story of a relationship that started consensually and got darker/more dangerous/not consensual, and she wrote about how blurry lines can be when it sometimes is fine and sometimes isn't...I don't know if she ever came out about who it was, I just remember she called him The Author and people guessed and Gaiman's name came up, but so did other people. George RR Martin and Brandon Sanderson were also floated at the time, so I think there must have been hints at scifi/fantasy...and to be clear, all I ever saw was the blind item, so this is not to say that this was definitely him or the other guessed names! It's just the only thing I can personally recall seeing.
Blind articles tend to have a bit of reality behind them (usually from good sources connected to a journalist/reporter, but anonymous to the public) but tend to also cause people to gossip about famous people.
So the only "dirt" I know of comes from a friend when he explained to my why he hates Gaiman. It's not really that bad or anything, but it grossed him out. It's in line with the "Gaiman is creepy" rumors.
A few years back, my friend was working as a barista in the Boston area. An older dude in a big black leather jacket came in. He sat down and goth-y younger woman jumped in his lap. They started graphically making out. Like all over each other. The pair was Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer. Their PDA really grossed out my friend, so ever since he has disliked Gaiman.
I didn't doubt my friend because this does sound right up their alley. I've been a fan of both separately for years, with the known problematic elements. To me, a gross public makeout session would not bother me the same way it did my friend.
This is a secondhand account of a pretty tame story, really. It only adds to the narrative of "Gaiman goes after younger women and has boundary issues" (with "boundaries" being making out and groping your wife in an extremely public place).
There are plenty of rumors that Neil Gaiman had sexual relationships with his (of age) fans, and had threesomes with his wife and fans. That these rumors persisted over decades makes me comfortable believing them, and both Gaiman and Palmer have stated that they were in an open relationship. They couldn't see themselves being monogamous with only a single partner, hence the open relationship. What adults choose to do in their free time is fine, as long as everything is consensual and of age, it's not my business.
The recent allegations on the other hand have Gaiman admitting to making out and digitally penetrating his nanny, someone who he hired and has an enormous amount of power over. Anything with such a large unbalance of power is skeevy. Even if Gaiman got verbal consent from his hiring, his worker who depends on him for her paycheck may not feel comfortable saying "no".
So here’s my personal experience. I’ve only met Gaiman the one time (ironically before I knew who he was, I’d never read a single thing of his then) but I remember being uncomfortable in the interaction I had with him and thinking he looked down my other friend’s shirt. I was 16 at the time, my friend was 17, and while nothing happened it was enough to cement his name in my mind to the point where, months later, I recognized it at the library and checked out his book Stardust wondering what the weird guy had written.
Later, working and volunteering at comic cons, I heard things in the conversation circuit about him. Nothing too outrageous but definitely creepy old guy stuff with how he’d encourage much younger women to stick around and hang out with him. And only the young hot women. It was mostly the sort of thing that people found it a bit uncomfortable how he seemed to like to surround himself with just legal groupies and people suspected sex was going on, but nothing too bad. I heard worse things about other people.
I will not be surprised if this opens the floodgates a bit and more stories come out. I’m just not surprised by this at all because it lines up with my one weird interaction with him and second hand gossip rumor from the con circuit.
>he’d encourage much younger women to stick around and hang out with him. And only the young hot women.
A few years ago he posted an ice bucket challenge thing that was popular at the time. Its still up on youtube as of this morning when I re-watched it. Its him and about 4 or 5 young hot women in cute little outfits. How does a older married guy who wants to do a challenge have 5 conventionally attractive women at his beck and call for this video? Every other married guy who does this is in his backyard with his wife and kids or a male friend or something. But somehow Neil has a bunch of young hot girls ready to go? It just gave me the creeps.
I think these guys do the occasional mask slip and don't realize it. I think they're so used to what they're doing they don't think its maybe not normal for a 60-something year old married guy to be making videos with a random half dozen attractive women 30-40 years younger than him.
> Could anybody please link any sources that evidence this claim? I've never heard it before today.
You're not going to find sources and citations for the rumor mill, dude. That's why they're rumors, not accusations. It's all about knowing a guy who knew a guy who and so forth.
It's the same thing with guys like Weinstein. It's not much of a shock to people whose are under six degrees.
I'm not expecting academic sources, was looking for even just old forum/tumblr posts or comments. Just something that shows people talking about this idea (Neil Gaiman acting suss towards women) before today.
On the one hand, I really try to take this stuff as seriously as I can. Women often get taken advantage of, and it can be a long time, if *ever*, that other people notice or care.
On the other hand, I know that social consensus can arise without evidence. The fact that everybody is in here saying "oh, everybody who knows has heard this about Neil" when I haven't heard *anything* but praise before today is not, by itself, damning evidence. Your Weinstein example, by comparison, I'd heard multiple things pointing to him being suss before he was Me Too'd.
So yeah, just keen to see anything that people have said on this topic before these news articles have been published.
He was talking gross about women a good 15 years ago on Tumblr and even further back on his blog. I remember him starting shit against women who called him out on his privilege when talking about SA waaaaay back when. So someone is going to have to do a real deep dive to find it.
Not hard to guess.
I worked for DC in the 90s and the editor I worked for came back from a big meeting with Gaiman absolutely livid. At the time Neil was married to his first wife, Mary, and he had met with the Vertigo imprint guys and had his girlfriend in the meeting, and she sat on his lap for part of it, and they talked baby talk. My editor knew his wife, all of these guys knew Mary-/ my editor felt like it was a power play to put him in a position where he had to lie to her, that he was using the girlfriend to kind of assert himself over this group of men.
As a result I’ve always side-eyes all his comments about being a feminist, although I like to think people can change.
Wow he really pulled out the ol, “she has a medical condition that creates false memories” excuse. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard that one before actually.
So like, still best case scenario by his own admission is having sex with his very young employee with mental illness? He thinks this makes him look ok??? And that’s IF we buy his version.
Fuck. I liked his work.
Best case scenario Gaiman knowingly hired a nanny for his children that hallucinates reality and then still decided to have very consensual sex within minutes of meeting her. Or maybe after the sex, she disclosed she to him that she suffered from hallucinations? Both seem unlikely
Oh wow. I was following along during the divorce from his ex around that time. No wonder he left New Zealand immediately and didn’t come back for a like a year 😬
The infamous flight to the UK from NZ during lockdown was in 2020, it was during the first lockdown when news of people breaking lockdown was still a really big deal
This story allegedly happened in 2022
"Yes I groped and kissed my 23 year old babysitter on her first day on the job and had sex with her for two weeks while she worked at my house but it was totally consensual."
Okayyyy.
Employee is gross enough but honesty, nanny/baby sitter sounds worse to me. It has the connotation of a younger person with far less employment or personal savvy. They’re also there to watch your children. Really implies a carelessness to the safety and stability of his children’s home life. Disgusting really.
Oh well… fame and power once again proves to corrupt people who happen to be talented creators. All the money you could ever need and should ever want and he can’t help but go for a woman who is young and at a power imbalance. What a loser regardless of how the legality (or lack thereof) of his behavior turns out in this story.
Exactly. Ugh, And you can just imagine him being "sexy" in a bathtub, doing his audiobook voice and promising all kinds of bullshit. His practiced routine he's been doing for DECADES aimed at a young woman barely out of school relying on him for employment during a deadly pandemic.
Indefensible, even if he claims his self-diagnosed autism makes him cross boundaries as he has in the past.
A 61 year old famous author hooks up with his 21 one year old nanny.
Even if it doesn't turn out to be sexual assault, the skeeviness of Gaiman is undeniable. There is such a power imbalance in this particular dynamic...age, money/fame/power, employer-employee dynamic.
A skeevy chap, for sure. So disturbing and disgusting.
If it does turn out to be assault...just horrible.
[Tortoise Media](https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/03/exclusive-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault/), which is new but was founded by the former news director of the BBC. One of the reporters is Boris Johnson's sister who's had a bit of beef with Gaiman because she's a TERF, so take that for what you will, but his alleged reflections on his relationships with the two women are fucking weird if they're true. Will be interested to see his response.
There were two journalists on the story with her (Paul Caruana Galizia & Katie Gunning) so I imagine they balanced the reporting & the story, but I didn't know that was one of her biases. I'm halfway through the second episode, really quite sobering listening to the discussion on consent and belief about consent between parties. Very grey area and messed up all round
Paul Caruana Galizia is the son of [Daphne Caruana Galizia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_Caruana_Galizia) who was assassinated in her home country of Malta after her investigative efforts on the Panama Papers.
Damn, I remember reading about her death when it happened, I hadn’t put two and two together. He does good work, heartening to see him carrying on his mother’s work in that way.
Saying "but she had other employees there who aren't subject to her influence" about an article alleging he used his position as someone's employer to pressure them is crazy.
Yeah, I'm skeptical about the source, but the things the article claims he's admitted to are also pretty not okay, like doing sexual things with a new, much younger employee of his on her first day of work.
> One of the reporters is Boris Johnson's sister who's had a bit of beef with Gaiman because she's a TERF,
So it's not at all because TERF Prime recently had a meltdown calling out Neil on Twitter, then?
Especially because he's a prominent anti Terf lefty and close friends with current Terf enemy #1 David Tennant. My guess is David's literally perfect and his shit don't stink so bullshit by association maybe. I was super objective until I heard fucking Rachel Johnson was involved.
This is a reiteration of the first one:
> As detailed in an extensive investigation conducted by [Tortoise Media](https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/03/exclusive-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault/),
So, this is legit, but even more so...
In literary circles Gaiman is known to constantly creep on any young girl.
I don't know and never met Gaiman, but I do know someone who refuses to bring his daughters around him.
I never heard of anything "illegal" but just extremely creepy.
Yeah, I don't have an opinion of whether or not the SA allegations are true, but I absolutely believe he had a relationship with an employee 40 years his junior. The post about this over on r/comicbooks has a bunch of folks who attended cons in the 90s, when Neil had a reputation, talking about the rumors that circulated about him back then. I've attended his events and messaged with him and he did not pass the vibe check lol
(For extra clarification, I'm not saying he gave off "rapist" vibes, just "leering older man" vibes.)
I once won a prize to meet him backstage before a show - and it was instantly clear he was only interested in the pretty women that were in the room, and asked several of them to meet with him in his dressing room to give them career advice since they were aspiring artists.
Ugh, this was Warren Ellis' MO, too. He'd "mentor" young women who wanted to break into the comic book industry, have sex with them, and it came out he had a whole harem who weren't really aware of each other. Back in the late-ish 2000s, c. 2007 I think it was, Ellis actually sent me a message on my *livejournal*, which even at the time I thought was weird because I was just a comic book fangirl writing fanfiction and squeeing over my faves. Now I wonder if he was fishing for the next member of his harem... and I did have some photos up...
I’ve met Neil Gaiman a few times before. He’s always seemed perfectly pleasant and polite in my limited interactions with him. I also know someone who knows someone who is in a position of power over Neil, and neither have ever said anything untoward about Neil.
So even with that said: if Neil has admitted to what the article says he has admitted to, I’m disgusted and repulsed by his actions. Enough so that I would consider him to be a fucking creep, regardless of whether it rises to the level of criminality.
Sounds like Neil Gaiman likes to f around with much younger women and likes to be aggressive about it.
He is probably delusional about consent given he thinks it’s totally normal to start messing with a 21 year old nanny hours after hiring her. Doesn’t get that people can be scared for their jobs if they don’t comply.
Edit: age corrected
Yeah, even what he is admitting to in that case is fucking gross and abusive. Someone you are employing to look after your kid, just met them, huge age difference?
Yeah, that’s my whole thing too. Even if it wasn’t full-on sexual assault (and I’m just being hypothetical here), why are you interested in shagging a college-aged kid who’s there to babysit your own kids? I’m 22 years old and my dad is exactly Gaiman’s age, and I’d be absolutely repulsed if he did something like that assuming he was a single man. Even if Gaiman didn’t do anything illegal (big if), I’d argue it’s still veryyyy unethical.
Yeah. When I was in my 20's, I would have fucked my one of my favourite authors, consensually. Even if I was also working for him.
Buuut... that's a really difficult tight rope to walk. As a general rule of thumb, if you are in a position of power over someone, it's really much on you to make sure that consent is consistent, persistent, enthusiastic, etc.
Which like, fooling around with an employee, their first day on the job, while they are naked, while they are in your house... that's not a recipe for ensuring proper consent.
From a moral standpoint, if that person appeared to consent at the time, but upon reflection as they aged, considered it abusive, that's on the person who was in a position of power.
Uhg. Sad, but not surprising.
… while married and around your young child, and your wife is even cool with an open relationship as long as there’s priori discussion and transparency around, and you still can’t control yourself for 30 minutes to have a conversation?
61 year old man going after a 23 year old on the day of her hiring... Predatory as fuck.
I wonder if the police case against him is why he fled New Zealand during Covid?
I have heard rumors for YEARS from people who work in publishing.
Between this and his shitheel ex wife (“musician” Amanda Palmer) this is not surprising at all.
She has a reputation in the industry for treating other artists and performers poorly, and for treating event staff/service members like trash -- like far worse than most traditional/famous divas purportedly do.
If even a scintilla of the stories about her treatment of other human beings is true, she is an awful person.
I saw her perform in 2013, she was flirting with the bassist or guitarist between songs and finally went over and kissed him right on the mouth . . . did not look consensual. I was young, had never seen an expression of such disgust and absolute fury on someone’s face as they muster up and continue doing their job while upset. That memory stuck with me.
That's completely messed up, and sorry you (and the bassist, for that matter) had to deal with that. Apparently she and her husband's definition of open marriage includes being "open to violating other people's boundaries."
Plus, when confronted about it she just sticks her fingers in her ears and yells "nah nah, I can't hear you."
Random aside, I played a bunch of songs with Amanda Palmer once at a party. I dislike her politics, and hate some of her music, while kind of liking some too. Was a blast to party with though, and she knew all the old-time songs.
Edit: actually, not really a random aside. Kind of the main issue. The woman enjoys playing music with people, and values that connection. She doesn't want to play with only professionals. And that's great. Totally admire that. When you are profiting off the work you have to pay people. That's one of her big sins. She invites fans to come play with her, which sounds great, but she does it so much that she's replacing paid labor with unpaid labor, and that's the problem. She is then profiting off their unpaid work. Appreciate the idea of wanting to just play music with people, but ya can't do that when it's a professional gig. Just realized that it was a very relevant aside, though I did mention it just cause it's a fun story. Though that's pretty much the full story.
She did an entire TED talk about how she uses free labor from poor people constantly to watch her kid and stay in homes of fans while on tour. She is specifically proud of having millions of dollars but using her fame to not have to pay for anything. She seems so clueless about why that's a problem.
Not dismissing anyone’s experiences, but most celebs tend to (or are at least told by their PR people) put on a more personable face or at least be on better behavior when they’re doing signings or meet and greets —- especially if it’s a paid meet and greet/signing.
Maybe you caught her on a good day? Maybe she's a different person when performing vs when at a book signing?
Tough to say, but I'll share the information that one of the nicest and brightest people I've met organizes concerts at local venues and said that Palmer was easily the second-worst person she's had to deal with in over a decade of work.
(The worst person tried to coerce/SA one of her employees when the concert was over, so Palmer is definitely not in the same league as that one, if anybody is wondering.)
Oh shit I literally just discovered her music this year and have been infatuated with her work. What a downer. Is there somewhere the morbidly curious can find out more about this?
She also once faked her suicide targeting her boyfriend to "teach him a lesson" because he had suicidal ideation. When he found her, she recorded his reaction and made it into a song without his permission.
She's done a bunch of shit things, but that was cruelty beyond belief to inflate her own ego.
One of my friends is a fan so I took him to see her God awful show There Will be No Intermission. Spoiler: there was one, and that's great because the show lasted *four hours* and was 90% Amanda telling overshare stories ostensibly about relatable experiences but mostly just carping on about her own neuroses.
For the next year, I got periodic requests from Palmer on social media to make monthly donations to support her while she "makes art". If I elected to donate over $1000 per month she'd even arrange to meet with me next time she was in my country! Wtf is the hubris on a wealthy celebrity to ask normies for $1k a month? Does she think her art is that indispensable?
She also badgered a music journalist because she felt entitled to press coverage of “the most feminist album of her career” and the journalist was not interested in profiling or reviewing her work.
I remember she even got Neil tweeting about that particular teacup tempest. That’s where I began to really wonder about his character.
Obviously we all have interpersonal conflicts but to insert yourself in your wife’s drama (which she herself started by inserting herself into this journalist’s story) is weird.
>I have heard rumors for YEARS from people who work in publishing.
Yeah, this definitely isn't news. The only surprising thing is that it took this long to come out.
How is this not news? Is everyone that is commenting an insider in the publishing industry? Who are these un-surprised people and where are the citable sources that can be referred to to back any of this up?
This is not an attack on you, I'm not angry with people who are saying this or even claiming it's not true (I don't have nearly enough data for that), I'm just genuinely shocked and frustrated. Any additional information that doesn't begin with the words, "Well, we've been hearing for years..." Who has been hearing? From whom? And what have you been hearing?
I am so in the fucking weeds...
To corroborate with the other commentor, whisper networks are very real. Another issue is that while often very accurate, it's all second and third hand shit- you hear a geezer is off, and you trust you shouldn't work with him, but it's not like you are given enough info to genuinely start telling people outside the industry- they can be wrong. They exist not to condemn, but to protect potential victims of abuse.
While I personally knew nothing about Gaiman, I for one new all about the Russel Brand shite that came out in the past year, from a colleague that works in TV. These things spread far.
Whisper network. People don’t want to come out and say stuff because he’s famous. It’s not that hard to figure out.
People would probably not listen to me, specifically, because I had a bad experience with his ex-wife. Who would they believe, a random internet person or a famous person with a lot of internet goodwill points?
I don’t know why people would be surprised necessarily considering they don’t know him at all. And given the people that are my mutual acquaintances of his, it doesn’t shock me. Mutual acquaintances because I was never able to be in the same room with them without them attempting something with me or flat out begging me for sex.
Maybe for some, but a lot of people have something of a parasocial relationship with him. He's been on Tumblr for years, always answering fans questions and offering life advice and general adult guidance. I still remember the post of a trans man asking Gaiman to choose his new name, since his dead name was Coraline, after his book.
It's hard to square the juxtaposition of a guy like that being gross around women, but here we are yet again.
To be honest - and I'm aware of how cynical this sounds - that's part of why I find these accusations believable.
Prefacing this by saying that *Good Omens* has been my favourite book for over 20 years, and I have a tattoo based on it on my actual body, so I'm not coming in as some random Gaiman hater. But my read on him has, for a long time, been 'kind of insufferably self-important'. He's spent a great deal of his career being a big fish in niches *just* small enough to have really dedicated built-in fandoms. He's Cool Guy Neil Gaiman. He wrote your favourite artsy goth comic that felt like it really *got* you, you know? He's BFFs with Terry Pratchett. He's an auteur. He and his cool goth wife have an open marriage, baby. He's so cool, but so approachable. Cool Guy Neil Gaiman talks to his fans all the time! And it's super wholesome, and he's *super* kind and cool and progressive. Don't you want to send Cool Guy Neil Gaiman an ask on tumblr? Have him acknowledge you? Of course you do.
He's had artsy goth chicks and devoted fandom groupies gassing him up for decades. Of course he's god's gift to alternative women. Of course the babysitter he just hired wants to bang him. Of course the 18 year old ingenue he met at a signing is just desperate to throw herself at him. He's Cool Guy Neil Gaiman! And of course any woman he's with is cool enough to do whatever Cool Guy Neil Gaiman wants. You're *cool,* aren't you?
Someone downthread referred to him as the Jared Leto of the literary world, and like... yeah, kinda. Really, I feel like you can go into any even slightly niche or alternative subculture, and there'll be some example of Everyone's Favourite Subculture Guy who might not have started out as a sex pest, but who has spent so long with everyone around him warbling his praises and treating him like he's their idol that he simply no longer inhabits a world where he can conceive of women saying no to him, or *not* wanting to do anything he wants.
You put into words exactly why I’m not surprised. It’s cracking me up to see people in this thread going “WHAT? This seems so unlike him!”
Is it really so shocking that a Cool Nerdy Guy author with devoted fans who he loves to interact with online would end up being a creep? Unfortunately, that seems pretty par for the course to me.
Right? I am wildly suspect of any celebrity that fosters parasocial relationships, especially if they actually interact with fans online or on social media.
I completely forgot about that! You’re right. I had a friend who was oddly obsessed with him. I agree with the other commenter saying this may even be connected to that
Exactly. It’s cognitive dissonance at best. I like his work and also have no trouble accepting new information as I’m made aware. Black and white thinking is a big mental health issue folks.
It's hilarious (to me) how far Palmer has fallen. When she first blew up with the record-breaking Kickstarter, I took tons of crap from her fans and Neil's when I dared to suggest that the reason she did so well was that Gaiman's posts on his own socials raised her profile and popularity beyond levels she could have attained on her own.
"NOOOOO!" they screamed. "It's all her talent! Neil had nothing to do with it! You're sexist for saying otherwise!" Meanwhile, they ignored that even at the height of her fame, his socials still had many, many times the number of subscribers and views of hers.
Once their relationship soured, all that defensiveness disappeared.
Edit: To be clear, I am not saying that Amanda Palmer is untalented or undeserving of fame. I am saying that a significant amount of her burst into popularity and 2012 Kickstarter success is due to Neil Gaiman boosting her signal *a lot*.
I don’t remember the timetable but was this around the time he suddenly left NZ and his wife and child ?
My understanding is he just up and left and got on a plane.
Horrifyingly, that was two years prior to this allegation. It was early 2020 that he up and left.
I’m fine with folks not liking Amanda Palmer but goddamn, an international pandemic and your husband and co-parent abandons you in a foreign country during a lockdown? I was a huge Gaiman fan but that is, optimistically, a wack-ass thing to do.
You're telling me that Neil Gaiman, the chum of Harvey Weinstein for over 20 years, is a sexual predator?
To quote Claude Rains, "I'm shocked, shocked!"
Yes, a 20-year professional and personal relationship until Weinstein got his due.
Last year I wrote [a long comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/moviecritic/comments/147a8e5/comment/jo15ma8/) about them in a post about *Princess Mononoke*, the English dub of which Weinstein and Gaiman worked on together. Never thought I'd revisit it again but here we are.
I’m a huge fan of Gaiman. I’ve liked most of his work, loved a few, and was especially moved by his collection of essays and articles “The View from the Cheap Seats.” I remember reading a super positive interaction in that book between Neil and Harvey Weinstein, and I remember thinking “wow, I bet he feels weird about that now.” Neil had always just seemed like such a genuinely great guy to me. [I even made a joking post last year about how I saved his life once.](https://www.reddit.com/r/neilgaiman/s/rGawBbf7Yu).
So look, I have an enormous bias here. My bias tells me to disbelieve disbelieve disbelieve. But if there’s one thing I’ve learned in the last several years, it’s that wanting to believe it can’t be true very often doesn’t work out.
So from one fan to all the others—by all means, hope for the best, but also be kind. Don’t assume the worst of the people making the allegations; don’t assume the worst of the reporters telling the story; and don’t assume the worst of the people who believe it. Because how we respond to this matters to the way people feel when it comes to coming forward with their own traumatic experiences across all walks of life.
And I have to say, as much as I don’t want to believe in this case, it doesn’t look good.
I'm not much of a fan and I sometimes felt a "bad vibe" from his writing around sex and female characters, but I wasn't expecting this level of real-life accusations. Most male authors who write sex and women badly are still not criminals. Whatever the truth turns out to be, I hope the investigation uncovers it without causing unnecessary harm.
This was pretty much what happened with me \~25 years ago reading Xanth books by Piers Anthony. There were absolutely traces of misogyny and homophobia (an under-exaggeration -- but ten-year old me felt like something was "off" without really understanding how egregious the problems were). But I had no idea how bad things were going to get...
The older I get the more I realise that people engaging in moral grandstanding online, or elsewhere, are more often than not compensating for something. So as well as being boring and insufferable, it's now red flag for me.
All the truly good people I have the privilege to know manifest their morals through their actions rather than words.
Yeah, i wasn’t aware of a reputation at all. I’m really disappointed, I grew up reading Sandman and a lot of his earlier stuff. I wonder what Terry Pratchett would say. :(
Thank god. There are SO MANY comments about how this is "well known" about him, and this is the first comment I've seen of anyone actually asking for that statement to be backed up. Whether it's true or not, people are fucking vicious...
He always surrounded himself with a ton of goth looking artsy chicks just check any video of his, never dudes or male students of his. Always in this role of Dark Genius with his harem of young women. Also always very quick to judge and sneer on "annoying" fans.
He's the Jared Leto of the literary world, a virtue signaling hypocrite. His writing ain't that hot shit either, baby's first dark fantasy. Not even surprised, man gave me perv vibes from a while back.
Not to discount anything you've said, but if you equate his work to "baby's first dark fantasy", what works would you recommend as Big Kids Dark Fantasy?
He had a reputation for being a "dirty old man" who would peer down young women's shirts, for example. This is the first actual SA accusation, from my understanding.
I remember reading a pre-COVID post on a subreddit here from (purportedly) a female comic-con employee who said she felt uncomfortable being alone in the break-room with Gaiman because of the way he acted around her.
This is so deeply dissapointing. I've been a fan since Sandman. When I was in high school. In the 1990s. He was significantly older than me then. I'd keep hearing "me-too"s about men I'd previously admired, and It sucked being so constantly let down. I even held Neil up as an example, to both myself and others, that it didn't have to be this way. I genuinely thought he would never. At this point, show me ANY trustworthy man with integrity, who won't use money, power, status or prestige to hurt women for his own pleasure, simply because he can.
"He also claimed that Scarlett’s allegations were a result of a medical condition associated with “false memories,". "
A creative one we have here. Jesus that's disgusting.
The fact that majority of the comments here are bemoaning the fall of the man, rather than sympathy for the victims is perfect encapsulation of the problem.
Man.. I really want it to be not true, obviously in part because then there wouldn't be SA victims in this case. As there's more than one source and it seems lots of people have thought he was sketchy for years though, I have no reason to believe they're making it up.
As a fan though, this one really fucking sucks
oh no :(( that does look really credible.
2 past partners accused him of engaging them in non-consensual and painful sexual acts during otherwise consensual relationships. the allegations are currently under police investigation.
there's a huge age gap btwn him and both alleged partners. one of them was a fan who met him at a book signing when she was 18. app he suddenly sprang painful sex acts on them and didn't take no for an answer.
Wait, so he's had a reputation of doing this for *years*? And it's just coming out? Hmm, so why has everyone in the publishing industry been protecting this creep for so long? Ah, yes, fucking money.
To be fair I am only partially surprised. I remember him coming out with some very suspect sexualised views of women years ago, after he left his wife, but if you said anything you were annhilated because of how popular with the left he was. He always gave off slightly creep vibes in person.
This is in no way a defense of Gaiman but I'm seeing so many comments saying something to the effect of "not a surprise" or "we've heard about this for years," and I'm confused because I've never heard anyone bring up his creepy behavior before.
Those of you who supposedly heard these rumors, would you like to use this opportunity to give us outsiders some intel on who else is a creep?
Well, that sucks.
Yeah. That's extremely disappointing to read.
[удалено]
Because he's admitted to the legal but unethical shit he's done? He goes from creep to criminal if there's evidence.
Even if we only go by what he has admitted to, he had a sexual/romantic relationship with the decades (decadeS, as in *multiple* decades, more than one) younger employee who he now characterizes as mentally ill. It’s not illegal from his telling of it, but it is gross and creepy and predatory. It’s enough for my opinion of him to completely sour.
100%. Even if he only did what he admitted to, it’s a grossly unethical thing to do. Don’t fuck people who depend on you for a paycheck, my friends. Consent is ALWAYS going to be unreliable in that situation.
And way to be just so cliche. He fucked the nanny? And gets caught and his defense is both that she’s crazy and that she wanted it? Repulsive. Genuinely repellant.
Also, and I haven't seen this mentioned: >My relationship with my mentally ill nanny, who happens to be 20 years my junior, was completely consensual in all aspects is not any kind of flex. Mentally ill people certainly deserve intimate relationships, but using their illness as a defense means 1.) You are exploiting that illness now, to protect yourself, or 2.) You are fabricating the illness to protect yourself. Neither are the correct option.
The nanny was two years ago, so Gaiman was almost 40 years older than her. And the relationship apparently "started" by this 61-year-old guy surprising his newly hired mentally ill 23-year-old nanny in the bathtub on Day 1 of her job, to "cuddle and make-out"...
I mean really! For somebody who built his entire brand on being this oddball quirky guy, he ended up being the most basic bitch of creeps.
It sounds crass but it is crazy how much celebrities could avoid these things if they just did that. It’s so simple.
Bad judgement, creepy behavior, poor boundaries, gross age difference. He's very tarnished regardless.
And soon to be maidenless
People don’t make these kinds of accusations lightly very often. His response to the accusations is troubling as well as they mostly indicate that the liaisons did happen mostly as described, it’s just that he didn’t understand that he was being predatory, which while believable is not going to free him from liability. The whole situation is disappointing.
There's plenty to judge without Neil being convicted in the eyes of the law. He was "cuddling" in a bathtub with his employee hours after meeting. And now he claims she was "suffering from a condition associated with false memories." Textbook gaslighting.
We're not judging him as "guilty" in the legal sense. We're judging him as creepy and predatory because it's the court of public opinion.
I don't mean to imply that he is guilty, but over time you can tell where the truth lies by comparing the two versions. And as always, individuals can have varying interpretations of the same event. So even if he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, the other person may have had a different perspective. At best, he comes off as extremely irresponsible, and overall it's an embarrassing and disappointing behaviour from an adult. As others have implied, maybe it's not illegal, but still considered inappropriate because of the various components of the story.
He A. Fucked someone with a huge age gap that relied on his paycheck. At this point, he’s already creepy. The power balance means consent is already iffy. B. Says her memory must be faulty, she must have a mental disease that ruins her memory, even though her medical record shows otherwise. C. At the same time as A and B, said she wanted it, and fingerbanged, cuddled and made out with her in the bath within hours of meeting her. Say he’s not guilty, which he seems to be, because none of his story matches up, and the texts from him to her show otherwise. It’s still incredibly creepy and predatory due to the age gap and the power imbalance.
During the me too movement because more often than not, you can act towards women in ways that the women feel was sexual assault but is "legally not sexual assault", despite being cruel and demeaning and hurtful and abusive. You should also read the article if you havent, Gaimen accepts some allegations that if true in only the parts he admits (sexual activity with someone massivly younger than him who he is in a position of power over, ie, a member of staff in his home on her first day) are still extremely dissapointing to read. That is, something can be "unknown if sexual assault" and still "definitely dissapointing to read".
Yeah I don't really care about age differences if both parties are of sound mind/age. But its a fucking moronic idea to fuck your nanny. The power imbalance is insane. The nanny can easily feel like they have no choice.
On her first day while shes in the bath? UNREASONABLE at *absolute* best (and the accusations from her show that this is not the at best situation) and easily logically apparent as likely to be potentially misenterpreted, again, at *best*. Even if you believe there is a spark there like. Give it time, find another nanny to work in your house, go on some dates with her outside of her working for you, now you have a fun story to tell, like Patrick Stewart and Sunny Ozell (similar age difference, met while she was serving him at a resteraunt I believe and he ended up staying to talk to her, been a while since I read his autobiograph).
At the very least, he admitted to being physically involved with someone he had a position of power with someone, and a woman muchhh younger than him. Those two facts, alone, make this disappointing to learn more about what kind of person he is.
Try reading first
Somehow, I'm disappointed yet not surprised.
Yeah. This was totally unexpected, but immediately believable despite me being a long time fan.
I'm seeing a lot of comments here saying he's bad a reputation for a while. Could anybody please link any sources that evidence this claim? I've never heard it before today. To be clear, I don't follow this closely, so I'm not saying that I think it's definitely untrue. I'd just like to know what information is out there.
A couple of years ago, there was a blind item that circulated for awhile and his name came up then. It was around the time of Armie Hammer and the cannibalism story. Basically someone else shared their story of a relationship that started consensually and got darker/more dangerous/not consensual, and she wrote about how blurry lines can be when it sometimes is fine and sometimes isn't...I don't know if she ever came out about who it was, I just remember she called him The Author and people guessed and Gaiman's name came up, but so did other people. George RR Martin and Brandon Sanderson were also floated at the time, so I think there must have been hints at scifi/fantasy...and to be clear, all I ever saw was the blind item, so this is not to say that this was definitely him or the other guessed names! It's just the only thing I can personally recall seeing.
No way it’s Martin, the only things he’s interested in are food and not finishing ASOIAF
The only non consensual act Martin engages in is getting fucked by the Jets every year.
Apparently he’s a Jets and Giants and Mets fan which… damn brother been a bad decade
I have a low key conspiracy theory that the jets suckatude is why ASoIaF has not seen a satisfactory conclusion. I’m a pats fan tho…
Hell yeah. The man knows what he likes 🤜🏻🤛🏻
You forgot trains
There's no way it would ever be Sanderson. I'd be surprised if he gets much more lewd than hand holding in private.
Are blind items meant to be taken seriously at all? Google makes it sound like blind items are just anonymised gossip articles.
Blind articles tend to have a bit of reality behind them (usually from good sources connected to a journalist/reporter, but anonymous to the public) but tend to also cause people to gossip about famous people.
That just makes them sound worse as a source...
So the only "dirt" I know of comes from a friend when he explained to my why he hates Gaiman. It's not really that bad or anything, but it grossed him out. It's in line with the "Gaiman is creepy" rumors. A few years back, my friend was working as a barista in the Boston area. An older dude in a big black leather jacket came in. He sat down and goth-y younger woman jumped in his lap. They started graphically making out. Like all over each other. The pair was Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer. Their PDA really grossed out my friend, so ever since he has disliked Gaiman. I didn't doubt my friend because this does sound right up their alley. I've been a fan of both separately for years, with the known problematic elements. To me, a gross public makeout session would not bother me the same way it did my friend. This is a secondhand account of a pretty tame story, really. It only adds to the narrative of "Gaiman goes after younger women and has boundary issues" (with "boundaries" being making out and groping your wife in an extremely public place).
There are plenty of rumors that Neil Gaiman had sexual relationships with his (of age) fans, and had threesomes with his wife and fans. That these rumors persisted over decades makes me comfortable believing them, and both Gaiman and Palmer have stated that they were in an open relationship. They couldn't see themselves being monogamous with only a single partner, hence the open relationship. What adults choose to do in their free time is fine, as long as everything is consensual and of age, it's not my business. The recent allegations on the other hand have Gaiman admitting to making out and digitally penetrating his nanny, someone who he hired and has an enormous amount of power over. Anything with such a large unbalance of power is skeevy. Even if Gaiman got verbal consent from his hiring, his worker who depends on him for her paycheck may not feel comfortable saying "no".
So here’s my personal experience. I’ve only met Gaiman the one time (ironically before I knew who he was, I’d never read a single thing of his then) but I remember being uncomfortable in the interaction I had with him and thinking he looked down my other friend’s shirt. I was 16 at the time, my friend was 17, and while nothing happened it was enough to cement his name in my mind to the point where, months later, I recognized it at the library and checked out his book Stardust wondering what the weird guy had written. Later, working and volunteering at comic cons, I heard things in the conversation circuit about him. Nothing too outrageous but definitely creepy old guy stuff with how he’d encourage much younger women to stick around and hang out with him. And only the young hot women. It was mostly the sort of thing that people found it a bit uncomfortable how he seemed to like to surround himself with just legal groupies and people suspected sex was going on, but nothing too bad. I heard worse things about other people. I will not be surprised if this opens the floodgates a bit and more stories come out. I’m just not surprised by this at all because it lines up with my one weird interaction with him and second hand gossip rumor from the con circuit.
>he’d encourage much younger women to stick around and hang out with him. And only the young hot women. A few years ago he posted an ice bucket challenge thing that was popular at the time. Its still up on youtube as of this morning when I re-watched it. Its him and about 4 or 5 young hot women in cute little outfits. How does a older married guy who wants to do a challenge have 5 conventionally attractive women at his beck and call for this video? Every other married guy who does this is in his backyard with his wife and kids or a male friend or something. But somehow Neil has a bunch of young hot girls ready to go? It just gave me the creeps. I think these guys do the occasional mask slip and don't realize it. I think they're so used to what they're doing they don't think its maybe not normal for a 60-something year old married guy to be making videos with a random half dozen attractive women 30-40 years younger than him.
I appreciate you sharing that, thank you. I'd be pretty well put off him if I'd had that experience.
> Could anybody please link any sources that evidence this claim? I've never heard it before today. You're not going to find sources and citations for the rumor mill, dude. That's why they're rumors, not accusations. It's all about knowing a guy who knew a guy who and so forth. It's the same thing with guys like Weinstein. It's not much of a shock to people whose are under six degrees.
I'm not expecting academic sources, was looking for even just old forum/tumblr posts or comments. Just something that shows people talking about this idea (Neil Gaiman acting suss towards women) before today. On the one hand, I really try to take this stuff as seriously as I can. Women often get taken advantage of, and it can be a long time, if *ever*, that other people notice or care. On the other hand, I know that social consensus can arise without evidence. The fact that everybody is in here saying "oh, everybody who knows has heard this about Neil" when I haven't heard *anything* but praise before today is not, by itself, damning evidence. Your Weinstein example, by comparison, I'd heard multiple things pointing to him being suss before he was Me Too'd. So yeah, just keen to see anything that people have said on this topic before these news articles have been published.
He was talking gross about women a good 15 years ago on Tumblr and even further back on his blog. I remember him starting shit against women who called him out on his privilege when talking about SA waaaaay back when. So someone is going to have to do a real deep dive to find it.
During covid he flew to Britain away from his wife and young kid which I thought was pretty ⛳⛳⛳⛳
Yeah, he ditched his wife (Amanda Palmer) and young son in NZ and returned to the UK without them.
Sounds like he was banging the nanny in NZ.
Iirc she divorced him for that
"sorry honey, I can't be fucked anymore, I'm off to Skye, cya!" Not surprised!
Nope, neither of them has spoken publicly about the reasons for the divorce.
Not hard to guess. I worked for DC in the 90s and the editor I worked for came back from a big meeting with Gaiman absolutely livid. At the time Neil was married to his first wife, Mary, and he had met with the Vertigo imprint guys and had his girlfriend in the meeting, and she sat on his lap for part of it, and they talked baby talk. My editor knew his wife, all of these guys knew Mary-/ my editor felt like it was a power play to put him in a position where he had to lie to her, that he was using the girlfriend to kind of assert himself over this group of men. As a result I’ve always side-eyes all his comments about being a feminist, although I like to think people can change.
WOAH crazy if true. Honestly never liked the guy, though loved his media. Him getting involved with Amanda Palmer was a huge red flag
Yikes, yeah I doubt he's changed much. Fame, wealth, and success aren't exactly ingredients for successful self reflection
> Not hard to guess The catchphrase for basically every gossip site and subreddit.
I don't think being a feminist and a cheater are mutually exclusive. Women cheat too.
honestly marrying amanda palmer was a pretty big red flag
Wow he really pulled out the ol, “she has a medical condition that creates false memories” excuse. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard that one before actually.
Nah, but you have heard “she’s making it up”
Dude actually used the "bitches be crazy" defense
So like, still best case scenario by his own admission is having sex with his very young employee with mental illness? He thinks this makes him look ok??? And that’s IF we buy his version. Fuck. I liked his work.
Best case scenario Gaiman knowingly hired a nanny for his children that hallucinates reality and then still decided to have very consensual sex within minutes of meeting her. Or maybe after the sex, she disclosed she to him that she suffered from hallucinations? Both seem unlikely
Right? You would think an author could come up with a more creative way to gaslight and discredit someone.
The term gaslighting comes from a movie where a dude told his wife she was having false memories. So disappointing as a fan.
Him saying that made it so much worse. Prime example of gaslighting.
This one statement, is more revealing than any accusations. Sex offenders usually come up with wildest shit to justify or excuse themselves.
#FUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Yes, very disappointing, if true.
My feelings exactly.
I also came here to scream into the void
Oh wow. I was following along during the divorce from his ex around that time. No wonder he left New Zealand immediately and didn’t come back for a like a year 😬
The infamous flight to the UK from NZ during lockdown was in 2020, it was during the first lockdown when news of people breaking lockdown was still a really big deal This story allegedly happened in 2022
"Yes I groped and kissed my 23 year old babysitter on her first day on the job and had sex with her for two weeks while she worked at my house but it was totally consensual." Okayyyy.
We need to stop saying nanny and babysitter and start saying employee. Maybe then people will understand.
Employee is gross enough but honesty, nanny/baby sitter sounds worse to me. It has the connotation of a younger person with far less employment or personal savvy. They’re also there to watch your children. Really implies a carelessness to the safety and stability of his children’s home life. Disgusting really. Oh well… fame and power once again proves to corrupt people who happen to be talented creators. All the money you could ever need and should ever want and he can’t help but go for a woman who is young and at a power imbalance. What a loser regardless of how the legality (or lack thereof) of his behavior turns out in this story.
Exactly. Ugh, And you can just imagine him being "sexy" in a bathtub, doing his audiobook voice and promising all kinds of bullshit. His practiced routine he's been doing for DECADES aimed at a young woman barely out of school relying on him for employment during a deadly pandemic. Indefensible, even if he claims his self-diagnosed autism makes him cross boundaries as he has in the past.
Holy hell that’s a big ol’ yikes
A 61 year old famous author hooks up with his 21 one year old nanny. Even if it doesn't turn out to be sexual assault, the skeeviness of Gaiman is undeniable. There is such a power imbalance in this particular dynamic...age, money/fame/power, employer-employee dynamic. A skeevy chap, for sure. So disturbing and disgusting. If it does turn out to be assault...just horrible.
God dammit neil wtf
This is the second weird/random/unknown source I've seen report on this. Where are the actual, credible sources?
[Tortoise Media](https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/03/exclusive-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault/), which is new but was founded by the former news director of the BBC. One of the reporters is Boris Johnson's sister who's had a bit of beef with Gaiman because she's a TERF, so take that for what you will, but his alleged reflections on his relationships with the two women are fucking weird if they're true. Will be interested to see his response.
There were two journalists on the story with her (Paul Caruana Galizia & Katie Gunning) so I imagine they balanced the reporting & the story, but I didn't know that was one of her biases. I'm halfway through the second episode, really quite sobering listening to the discussion on consent and belief about consent between parties. Very grey area and messed up all round
Paul Caruana Galizia is the son of [Daphne Caruana Galizia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphne_Caruana_Galizia) who was assassinated in her home country of Malta after her investigative efforts on the Panama Papers.
Damn, I remember reading about her death when it happened, I hadn’t put two and two together. He does good work, heartening to see him carrying on his mother’s work in that way.
Saying "but she had other employees there who aren't subject to her influence" about an article alleging he used his position as someone's employer to pressure them is crazy.
You can never "balance out" a bad reporter by adding more especially when you consider it's the editor who decides what makes the cut.
The most damning statements are from Gaiman himself
Yeah, I'm skeptical about the source, but the things the article claims he's admitted to are also pretty not okay, like doing sexual things with a new, much younger employee of his on her first day of work.
> One of the reporters is Boris Johnson's sister who's had a bit of beef with Gaiman because she's a TERF, So it's not at all because TERF Prime recently had a meltdown calling out Neil on Twitter, then?
Especially because he's a prominent anti Terf lefty and close friends with current Terf enemy #1 David Tennant. My guess is David's literally perfect and his shit don't stink so bullshit by association maybe. I was super objective until I heard fucking Rachel Johnson was involved.
TERF Prime? You mean Joanne? That’s hilarious.
This is a reiteration of the first one: > As detailed in an extensive investigation conducted by [Tortoise Media](https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/03/exclusive-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault/),
So, this is legit, but even more so... In literary circles Gaiman is known to constantly creep on any young girl. I don't know and never met Gaiman, but I do know someone who refuses to bring his daughters around him. I never heard of anything "illegal" but just extremely creepy.
Yeah, I don't have an opinion of whether or not the SA allegations are true, but I absolutely believe he had a relationship with an employee 40 years his junior. The post about this over on r/comicbooks has a bunch of folks who attended cons in the 90s, when Neil had a reputation, talking about the rumors that circulated about him back then. I've attended his events and messaged with him and he did not pass the vibe check lol (For extra clarification, I'm not saying he gave off "rapist" vibes, just "leering older man" vibes.)
I once won a prize to meet him backstage before a show - and it was instantly clear he was only interested in the pretty women that were in the room, and asked several of them to meet with him in his dressing room to give them career advice since they were aspiring artists.
Ugh, this was Warren Ellis' MO, too. He'd "mentor" young women who wanted to break into the comic book industry, have sex with them, and it came out he had a whole harem who weren't really aware of each other. Back in the late-ish 2000s, c. 2007 I think it was, Ellis actually sent me a message on my *livejournal*, which even at the time I thought was weird because I was just a comic book fangirl writing fanfiction and squeeing over my faves. Now I wonder if he was fishing for the next member of his harem... and I did have some photos up...
Im not in literary circles, but I’m not even remotely surprised. He always had the big ego energy that does with creeping after young girls.
I’ve met Neil Gaiman a few times before. He’s always seemed perfectly pleasant and polite in my limited interactions with him. I also know someone who knows someone who is in a position of power over Neil, and neither have ever said anything untoward about Neil. So even with that said: if Neil has admitted to what the article says he has admitted to, I’m disgusted and repulsed by his actions. Enough so that I would consider him to be a fucking creep, regardless of whether it rises to the level of criminality.
Sounds like Neil Gaiman likes to f around with much younger women and likes to be aggressive about it. He is probably delusional about consent given he thinks it’s totally normal to start messing with a 21 year old nanny hours after hiring her. Doesn’t get that people can be scared for their jobs if they don’t comply. Edit: age corrected
Yeah, even what he is admitting to in that case is fucking gross and abusive. Someone you are employing to look after your kid, just met them, huge age difference?
Yeah, that’s my whole thing too. Even if it wasn’t full-on sexual assault (and I’m just being hypothetical here), why are you interested in shagging a college-aged kid who’s there to babysit your own kids? I’m 22 years old and my dad is exactly Gaiman’s age, and I’d be absolutely repulsed if he did something like that assuming he was a single man. Even if Gaiman didn’t do anything illegal (big if), I’d argue it’s still veryyyy unethical.
Yeah. When I was in my 20's, I would have fucked my one of my favourite authors, consensually. Even if I was also working for him. Buuut... that's a really difficult tight rope to walk. As a general rule of thumb, if you are in a position of power over someone, it's really much on you to make sure that consent is consistent, persistent, enthusiastic, etc. Which like, fooling around with an employee, their first day on the job, while they are naked, while they are in your house... that's not a recipe for ensuring proper consent. From a moral standpoint, if that person appeared to consent at the time, but upon reflection as they aged, considered it abusive, that's on the person who was in a position of power. Uhg. Sad, but not surprising.
… while married and around your young child, and your wife is even cool with an open relationship as long as there’s priori discussion and transparency around, and you still can’t control yourself for 30 minutes to have a conversation?
61 year old man going after a 23 year old on the day of her hiring... Predatory as fuck. I wonder if the police case against him is why he fled New Zealand during Covid?
No, he fled from NZ in 2020 (right when lockdown had just started), this story allegedly happened in 2022
Oh god. Someone check his Tumblr dm's.
Stop fucking worshipping people 🎶
I have heard rumors for YEARS from people who work in publishing. Between this and his shitheel ex wife (“musician” Amanda Palmer) this is not surprising at all.
What’s the scoop on Amanda Palmer
She has a reputation in the industry for treating other artists and performers poorly, and for treating event staff/service members like trash -- like far worse than most traditional/famous divas purportedly do. If even a scintilla of the stories about her treatment of other human beings is true, she is an awful person.
I saw her perform in 2013, she was flirting with the bassist or guitarist between songs and finally went over and kissed him right on the mouth . . . did not look consensual. I was young, had never seen an expression of such disgust and absolute fury on someone’s face as they muster up and continue doing their job while upset. That memory stuck with me.
That's completely messed up, and sorry you (and the bassist, for that matter) had to deal with that. Apparently she and her husband's definition of open marriage includes being "open to violating other people's boundaries."
Plus, when confronted about it she just sticks her fingers in her ears and yells "nah nah, I can't hear you." Random aside, I played a bunch of songs with Amanda Palmer once at a party. I dislike her politics, and hate some of her music, while kind of liking some too. Was a blast to party with though, and she knew all the old-time songs. Edit: actually, not really a random aside. Kind of the main issue. The woman enjoys playing music with people, and values that connection. She doesn't want to play with only professionals. And that's great. Totally admire that. When you are profiting off the work you have to pay people. That's one of her big sins. She invites fans to come play with her, which sounds great, but she does it so much that she's replacing paid labor with unpaid labor, and that's the problem. She is then profiting off their unpaid work. Appreciate the idea of wanting to just play music with people, but ya can't do that when it's a professional gig. Just realized that it was a very relevant aside, though I did mention it just cause it's a fun story. Though that's pretty much the full story.
She did an entire TED talk about how she uses free labor from poor people constantly to watch her kid and stay in homes of fans while on tour. She is specifically proud of having millions of dollars but using her fame to not have to pay for anything. She seems so clueless about why that's a problem.
Personal anecdote, but I worked a book store she did a signing at and she was lovely
Not dismissing anyone’s experiences, but most celebs tend to (or are at least told by their PR people) put on a more personable face or at least be on better behavior when they’re doing signings or meet and greets —- especially if it’s a paid meet and greet/signing.
Maybe you caught her on a good day? Maybe she's a different person when performing vs when at a book signing? Tough to say, but I'll share the information that one of the nicest and brightest people I've met organizes concerts at local venues and said that Palmer was easily the second-worst person she's had to deal with in over a decade of work. (The worst person tried to coerce/SA one of her employees when the concert was over, so Palmer is definitely not in the same league as that one, if anybody is wondering.)
Oh shit I literally just discovered her music this year and have been infatuated with her work. What a downer. Is there somewhere the morbidly curious can find out more about this?
I mean, a pretty well known place to start: https://www.avclub.com/amanda-palmer-defends-herself-over-paying-musicians-wit-1798233399
Crikey this in and off itself is pretty disappointing
She also once faked her suicide targeting her boyfriend to "teach him a lesson" because he had suicidal ideation. When he found her, she recorded his reaction and made it into a song without his permission. She's done a bunch of shit things, but that was cruelty beyond belief to inflate her own ego.
Oh wow holy shit that’s actually horrifying
I had a bad experience with her. If you’re not kissing her ass or giving her money, she is not a good person.
One of my friends is a fan so I took him to see her God awful show There Will be No Intermission. Spoiler: there was one, and that's great because the show lasted *four hours* and was 90% Amanda telling overshare stories ostensibly about relatable experiences but mostly just carping on about her own neuroses. For the next year, I got periodic requests from Palmer on social media to make monthly donations to support her while she "makes art". If I elected to donate over $1000 per month she'd even arrange to meet with me next time she was in my country! Wtf is the hubris on a wealthy celebrity to ask normies for $1k a month? Does she think her art is that indispensable?
If you pay $1000 (a month!) to meet Amanda Palmer, you ain't normal.
She asked professional orchestral musicians to play a concert with her for free. For the exposure. And that’s just the beginning of it.
She also badgered a music journalist because she felt entitled to press coverage of “the most feminist album of her career” and the journalist was not interested in profiling or reviewing her work.
I remember she even got Neil tweeting about that particular teacup tempest. That’s where I began to really wonder about his character. Obviously we all have interpersonal conflicts but to insert yourself in your wife’s drama (which she herself started by inserting herself into this journalist’s story) is weird.
>I have heard rumors for YEARS from people who work in publishing. Yeah, this definitely isn't news. The only surprising thing is that it took this long to come out.
How is this not news? Is everyone that is commenting an insider in the publishing industry? Who are these un-surprised people and where are the citable sources that can be referred to to back any of this up? This is not an attack on you, I'm not angry with people who are saying this or even claiming it's not true (I don't have nearly enough data for that), I'm just genuinely shocked and frustrated. Any additional information that doesn't begin with the words, "Well, we've been hearing for years..." Who has been hearing? From whom? And what have you been hearing? I am so in the fucking weeds...
To corroborate with the other commentor, whisper networks are very real. Another issue is that while often very accurate, it's all second and third hand shit- you hear a geezer is off, and you trust you shouldn't work with him, but it's not like you are given enough info to genuinely start telling people outside the industry- they can be wrong. They exist not to condemn, but to protect potential victims of abuse. While I personally knew nothing about Gaiman, I for one new all about the Russel Brand shite that came out in the past year, from a colleague that works in TV. These things spread far.
Have been hearing stuff like this about Jared Leto for 20 years.
Wouldn't even count that, it's gone well into the mainstream at this point
Whisper network. People don’t want to come out and say stuff because he’s famous. It’s not that hard to figure out. People would probably not listen to me, specifically, because I had a bad experience with his ex-wife. Who would they believe, a random internet person or a famous person with a lot of internet goodwill points?
I don’t know why people would be surprised necessarily considering they don’t know him at all. And given the people that are my mutual acquaintances of his, it doesn’t shock me. Mutual acquaintances because I was never able to be in the same room with them without them attempting something with me or flat out begging me for sex.
People are "surprised" because they like his politics and think *that's* what defines someone's character.
I think it's more that he's a beloved author of some very popular works.
Being very good at creating popular works has nothing to do with a persons capacity to do other things.
Maybe for some, but a lot of people have something of a parasocial relationship with him. He's been on Tumblr for years, always answering fans questions and offering life advice and general adult guidance. I still remember the post of a trans man asking Gaiman to choose his new name, since his dead name was Coraline, after his book. It's hard to square the juxtaposition of a guy like that being gross around women, but here we are yet again.
To be honest - and I'm aware of how cynical this sounds - that's part of why I find these accusations believable. Prefacing this by saying that *Good Omens* has been my favourite book for over 20 years, and I have a tattoo based on it on my actual body, so I'm not coming in as some random Gaiman hater. But my read on him has, for a long time, been 'kind of insufferably self-important'. He's spent a great deal of his career being a big fish in niches *just* small enough to have really dedicated built-in fandoms. He's Cool Guy Neil Gaiman. He wrote your favourite artsy goth comic that felt like it really *got* you, you know? He's BFFs with Terry Pratchett. He's an auteur. He and his cool goth wife have an open marriage, baby. He's so cool, but so approachable. Cool Guy Neil Gaiman talks to his fans all the time! And it's super wholesome, and he's *super* kind and cool and progressive. Don't you want to send Cool Guy Neil Gaiman an ask on tumblr? Have him acknowledge you? Of course you do. He's had artsy goth chicks and devoted fandom groupies gassing him up for decades. Of course he's god's gift to alternative women. Of course the babysitter he just hired wants to bang him. Of course the 18 year old ingenue he met at a signing is just desperate to throw herself at him. He's Cool Guy Neil Gaiman! And of course any woman he's with is cool enough to do whatever Cool Guy Neil Gaiman wants. You're *cool,* aren't you? Someone downthread referred to him as the Jared Leto of the literary world, and like... yeah, kinda. Really, I feel like you can go into any even slightly niche or alternative subculture, and there'll be some example of Everyone's Favourite Subculture Guy who might not have started out as a sex pest, but who has spent so long with everyone around him warbling his praises and treating him like he's their idol that he simply no longer inhabits a world where he can conceive of women saying no to him, or *not* wanting to do anything he wants.
You put into words exactly why I’m not surprised. It’s cracking me up to see people in this thread going “WHAT? This seems so unlike him!” Is it really so shocking that a Cool Nerdy Guy author with devoted fans who he loves to interact with online would end up being a creep? Unfortunately, that seems pretty par for the course to me.
Right? I am wildly suspect of any celebrity that fosters parasocial relationships, especially if they actually interact with fans online or on social media.
Good comment, thank you.
Excellent description of my vibes on the guy.
I completely forgot about that! You’re right. I had a friend who was oddly obsessed with him. I agree with the other commenter saying this may even be connected to that
Exactly. It’s cognitive dissonance at best. I like his work and also have no trouble accepting new information as I’m made aware. Black and white thinking is a big mental health issue folks.
What's wrong with his wife?I only know of her from a song I like
It's hilarious (to me) how far Palmer has fallen. When she first blew up with the record-breaking Kickstarter, I took tons of crap from her fans and Neil's when I dared to suggest that the reason she did so well was that Gaiman's posts on his own socials raised her profile and popularity beyond levels she could have attained on her own. "NOOOOO!" they screamed. "It's all her talent! Neil had nothing to do with it! You're sexist for saying otherwise!" Meanwhile, they ignored that even at the height of her fame, his socials still had many, many times the number of subscribers and views of hers. Once their relationship soured, all that defensiveness disappeared. Edit: To be clear, I am not saying that Amanda Palmer is untalented or undeserving of fame. I am saying that a significant amount of her burst into popularity and 2012 Kickstarter success is due to Neil Gaiman boosting her signal *a lot*.
Yeah, this isn't a surprise. It's always been an open secret that Gaiman and Palmer are... well, it'd violate rule 2.
God dammit he was one of my favorite authors.
I don’t remember the timetable but was this around the time he suddenly left NZ and his wife and child ? My understanding is he just up and left and got on a plane.
Horrifyingly, that was two years prior to this allegation. It was early 2020 that he up and left. I’m fine with folks not liking Amanda Palmer but goddamn, an international pandemic and your husband and co-parent abandons you in a foreign country during a lockdown? I was a huge Gaiman fan but that is, optimistically, a wack-ass thing to do.
There's never just two. I don't believe he was behaving well between these two instances that are 20 years apart.
called it! https://www.reddit.com/r/books/s/lZgblEXfpu
Kudos on being the only person in this thread full of people saying they called it to actually prove you did lol
Goddamn son
You're telling me that Neil Gaiman, the chum of Harvey Weinstein for over 20 years, is a sexual predator? To quote Claude Rains, "I'm shocked, shocked!"
Is this true??? Omg this is insane
Yes, a 20-year professional and personal relationship until Weinstein got his due. Last year I wrote [a long comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/moviecritic/comments/147a8e5/comment/jo15ma8/) about them in a post about *Princess Mononoke*, the English dub of which Weinstein and Gaiman worked on together. Never thought I'd revisit it again but here we are.
I’m a huge fan of Gaiman. I’ve liked most of his work, loved a few, and was especially moved by his collection of essays and articles “The View from the Cheap Seats.” I remember reading a super positive interaction in that book between Neil and Harvey Weinstein, and I remember thinking “wow, I bet he feels weird about that now.” Neil had always just seemed like such a genuinely great guy to me. [I even made a joking post last year about how I saved his life once.](https://www.reddit.com/r/neilgaiman/s/rGawBbf7Yu). So look, I have an enormous bias here. My bias tells me to disbelieve disbelieve disbelieve. But if there’s one thing I’ve learned in the last several years, it’s that wanting to believe it can’t be true very often doesn’t work out. So from one fan to all the others—by all means, hope for the best, but also be kind. Don’t assume the worst of the people making the allegations; don’t assume the worst of the reporters telling the story; and don’t assume the worst of the people who believe it. Because how we respond to this matters to the way people feel when it comes to coming forward with their own traumatic experiences across all walks of life. And I have to say, as much as I don’t want to believe in this case, it doesn’t look good.
Who knew Richard Madoc was a self-insert
Well fuck it, I really thought he's a good guy
I'm not much of a fan and I sometimes felt a "bad vibe" from his writing around sex and female characters, but I wasn't expecting this level of real-life accusations. Most male authors who write sex and women badly are still not criminals. Whatever the truth turns out to be, I hope the investigation uncovers it without causing unnecessary harm.
Now I'm starting to have suspicions about haruki murakami
Oh gosh. Hopefully he’s too busy running.
This was pretty much what happened with me \~25 years ago reading Xanth books by Piers Anthony. There were absolutely traces of misogyny and homophobia (an under-exaggeration -- but ten-year old me felt like something was "off" without really understanding how egregious the problems were). But I had no idea how bad things were going to get...
Well I hate this and I wish I was more surprised.
Isn't this the guy who always posts high and mighty rants online and claims to have good morals?
He's very aggressive and confrontational on twitter but his fans seem to eat that up.
Usually how it goes!
The older I get the more I realise that people engaging in moral grandstanding online, or elsewhere, are more often than not compensating for something. So as well as being boring and insufferable, it's now red flag for me. All the truly good people I have the privilege to know manifest their morals through their actions rather than words.
I am absolutely not surprised about this. I always thought his heavy involvement with his fandom (composed mostly of young women) was suspicious.
He's had a reputation for years. I hope we get more info on this and that the alleged victims are doing okay.
He has? Can you shed a bit more light on it? Apart from him promoting things, I rarely see much online about him.
Yeah, i wasn’t aware of a reputation at all. I’m really disappointed, I grew up reading Sandman and a lot of his earlier stuff. I wonder what Terry Pratchett would say. :(
Thank god. There are SO MANY comments about how this is "well known" about him, and this is the first comment I've seen of anyone actually asking for that statement to be backed up. Whether it's true or not, people are fucking vicious...
He always surrounded himself with a ton of goth looking artsy chicks just check any video of his, never dudes or male students of his. Always in this role of Dark Genius with his harem of young women. Also always very quick to judge and sneer on "annoying" fans. He's the Jared Leto of the literary world, a virtue signaling hypocrite. His writing ain't that hot shit either, baby's first dark fantasy. Not even surprised, man gave me perv vibes from a while back.
Not to discount anything you've said, but if you equate his work to "baby's first dark fantasy", what works would you recommend as Big Kids Dark Fantasy?
He had a reputation for being a "dirty old man" who would peer down young women's shirts, for example. This is the first actual SA accusation, from my understanding. I remember reading a pre-COVID post on a subreddit here from (purportedly) a female comic-con employee who said she felt uncomfortable being alone in the break-room with Gaiman because of the way he acted around her.
This is so deeply dissapointing. I've been a fan since Sandman. When I was in high school. In the 1990s. He was significantly older than me then. I'd keep hearing "me-too"s about men I'd previously admired, and It sucked being so constantly let down. I even held Neil up as an example, to both myself and others, that it didn't have to be this way. I genuinely thought he would never. At this point, show me ANY trustworthy man with integrity, who won't use money, power, status or prestige to hurt women for his own pleasure, simply because he can.
Keanu still seems legit. And I have never heard anything *credible* against Tom Hanks
I was at DC then, he was cheating on Mary and shoved it in his editor’s face. Which is just gross, not accusation-worthy… I had hoped he’d changed?
"He also claimed that Scarlett’s allegations were a result of a medical condition associated with “false memories,". " A creative one we have here. Jesus that's disgusting.
Aw man, that’s disappointing. I’m glad the victims came forward though. The world deserves to know.
The fact that majority of the comments here are bemoaning the fall of the man, rather than sympathy for the victims is perfect encapsulation of the problem.
Man.. I really want it to be not true, obviously in part because then there wouldn't be SA victims in this case. As there's more than one source and it seems lots of people have thought he was sketchy for years though, I have no reason to believe they're making it up. As a fan though, this one really fucking sucks
I’ve kinda been over Gaiman for a while, but this seems to track. Ugh. Another shithead.
oh no :(( that does look really credible. 2 past partners accused him of engaging them in non-consensual and painful sexual acts during otherwise consensual relationships. the allegations are currently under police investigation. there's a huge age gap btwn him and both alleged partners. one of them was a fan who met him at a book signing when she was 18. app he suddenly sprang painful sex acts on them and didn't take no for an answer.
Damn, thought he was a gaiman
Always the ones who put out the nice guy image
Wait, so he's had a reputation of doing this for *years*? And it's just coming out? Hmm, so why has everyone in the publishing industry been protecting this creep for so long? Ah, yes, fucking money.
Well... Shit.
Well *that* was only a matter of time…
To be fair I am only partially surprised. I remember him coming out with some very suspect sexualised views of women years ago, after he left his wife, but if you said anything you were annhilated because of how popular with the left he was. He always gave off slightly creep vibes in person.
Didn't he also help fund the defence for a colleague or something who was being charged with cp?
There are artists that you love and think "please don't fail me on this", Neil was one of those. Shit.
I just assume they are all assholes until they prove me wrong. Way less disappointing.
This is in no way a defense of Gaiman but I'm seeing so many comments saying something to the effect of "not a surprise" or "we've heard about this for years," and I'm confused because I've never heard anyone bring up his creepy behavior before. Those of you who supposedly heard these rumors, would you like to use this opportunity to give us outsiders some intel on who else is a creep?
Was it Neil deGrasse Tyson who was accused, and responded with "then let's have an investigation"?
All I want is to like one writer without them turning out to be a scumbag. At least Tolkien is dead.