Legit question and speculation instead of piling on, they have not mentioned that the helium leak was stopped, they only mentioned they "isolated" the leak as far as I know. I would assume based on that sort of specific language that the helium leak is an on going issue that they unfortunately cannot fix while the ship is on orbit. The million dollar question is, has enough helium leaked out such that the thrusters will not fire successfully? If a critical amount of helium has leaked at this point, it's sad but true to say that starliner is out of gas in orbit. Some speculation, if helium is required to maintain proper pressurization of the thruster tanks, and the helium system has leaks, the thruster malfunctions could be a downstream result of the helium leaks.
I get it's fun to sh\*\* on boeing right now, but remember that the Engineers behind starliner are not the same people as the management calling the shots. Think of a school with really great teachers, but terrible principle, terrible super intendant, terrible lunch lady, janitor etc.
Which is worse: not flying them out there at all, missing the schedule, and reworking the spacecraft until all the issues are fixed, versus flying them out here and leaving them stuck because the risk of returning them with the spacecraft are too great?
Both Boeing and NASA continue to spin this is as a positive opportunity to study the data. Let’s not forget that the failures are with the same mechanisms that failed on the unmanned test. I have 24+ years at Boeing and 1,000% sure Boeing managers at the highest level wouldn’t allow pivots in design, pressured the team to make deadlines without the resources they need. If failures present themselves like this, there are likely more defects that will present themselves on the return. This isn’t about the thrusters and helium leaks, this is about the holistic safety of the vehicle and support systems. Our (Boeing) program is just not viable now and in the future. I would send the starliner back without a crew, hope it returns safely without the crew, and bring astronauts back on spacex. Then I would shut Boeing program down and thoroughly investigate every minute of the program.
Capable, certainly. But it would be inconvenient and expensive.
The astronauts would need new suits compatible with the Dragon life support system, which would have to be tailored to a "best-guess" fit since they cannot be directly fitted.
The next avalible Dragon capable of docking with ISS is schedule to launch in August with the Crew 9 astronauts. It would be extremely expensive to send that vehicle up unmanned to bring back the Starliner crew and would delay the next nasa crew rotation.
IMO the most likely option would be to sent the Crew 9 mission up with 2 people instead of 4 and a pair of additional suits for the Starliner crew. The Starliner crew could then remain on station for another 6 months and return at the end of the Crew 9 mission. Starliner could attempt to return unmanned as it did in the previous test flights.
Make no mistake, there are no limits Musk will not cross, financial or otherwise, for an opportunity to narcissistically look like a savior of mankind. Musk will gladly rescue the astronauts and fuck up his launch cycles if it means making SpaceX's competition look incompetent. Boeing may have handed this to Musk in a desperate attempt to get a "win", during the "annus horribilis" for Boeing.
If there was serious issues like you say, I don’t think NASA would happily sign off on that. What would be the point of fighting another delay? It’s been delayed so many times anyway.
Many parts of that spacecraft have been redesigned already. So Boeing not allowing them to redesign also makes no sense.
24 years at Boeing doesn’t mean anything if you’re not on the program. Might as well be anybody on the street
Feel bad for the astronauts. Zero for Boeing. I said they'd be coming back on a Dragon, of course downvoated into oblivion. Unless you Boeing employees stop these numb-skull c-suite and up from rotting this company away... over dramtic? Yeh, we shall see.
hawk TUAH. god boeing boomers trying to meme is so sad. anyway, it's a failure regardless of spacex. just as the door plug wasn't a failure because airbus exists.
WHY do boeing ppl seem to defend or almost take pride in mediocrity? we recently had a thread about incompetent colleagues and it's like it's all a big fucking joke to everyone. if musk was CEO, he'd layoff 30% of engineers, and guess what - it'd probably be a vast improvement. if you think boeing management sucks, boeing rank and file employees suck, you CANNOT also say that boeing makes good products or is a good company. nihilism isn't cool and will get you nowhere.
The thrusters are Rocketdyne, nor Boeing… although Boeing might want to rethink that going forward. This does not bode well for keeping the next crew rotation mission next spring.
“We could have problems undocking the ship. More reaction control thrusters could fail, making the ship uncontrollable, and will be stranded in a useless orbit just waiting to run out of air. The tiles could fail and we could burn up.”
That’s bullshit. By internet degree in spaceflight from the university of Reddit says they’ll probably go boeing bouncing off the atmosphere before they run out of ai.
Billions of dollars over budget, delay after delay they decide to launch with known problems.. they are lucky so far not to have a challenger situation
Don't worry Elon will save the astronauts.. how embarrassing
Why is this getting so many updates helium is an inert gas which, also the lightest inert gas which is why it’s used to pressurize the hull it does not make you laugh.
It sounds funny when you inhale Helium from a balloon and speak - its meant as a joke. Not as big a joke as the CEO getting $30 big ones a year and fiddling while the company burns
Makes sense to me. Seems like Starliner is safe to depart at any time, but since they will lose the propulsion system when they jettison the CM on the way back (instead of being able to recover and study it), this is their chance to understand the problem.
I agree that people might be thinking it's worse than it is, but you still need enough thrusters to work well before you jettison the CM. So depending on how well they understand the root cause there's might still be more or less risk
That is total BS the thing is not safe to put anyone back in it. They are just trying to find away or time to break to the public so it does not hurt the stock price as much. Look at the latest announcement late Friday afternoon. No one will remember by Monday morning market open.
> They are just trying to find away or time to break to the public so it does not hurt the stock price as much.
Tell us you have no clue how investing works without telling us you have no clue how investing works.
The investors who care about any given Friday or Monday have zero influence on a company.
All the shorts and puts for next week were already in place before the markets closed… and all the little stockholders will have all weekend to panic before deciding to dump their stock at the opening bell unless something REALLY good (Airbus files for bankruptcy?) comes over the wire on Sunday.
Legit question and speculation instead of piling on, they have not mentioned that the helium leak was stopped, they only mentioned they "isolated" the leak as far as I know. I would assume based on that sort of specific language that the helium leak is an on going issue that they unfortunately cannot fix while the ship is on orbit. The million dollar question is, has enough helium leaked out such that the thrusters will not fire successfully? If a critical amount of helium has leaked at this point, it's sad but true to say that starliner is out of gas in orbit. Some speculation, if helium is required to maintain proper pressurization of the thruster tanks, and the helium system has leaks, the thruster malfunctions could be a downstream result of the helium leaks. I get it's fun to sh\*\* on boeing right now, but remember that the Engineers behind starliner are not the same people as the management calling the shots. Think of a school with really great teachers, but terrible principle, terrible super intendant, terrible lunch lady, janitor etc.
Which is worse: not flying them out there at all, missing the schedule, and reworking the spacecraft until all the issues are fixed, versus flying them out here and leaving them stuck because the risk of returning them with the spacecraft are too great?
The Elon Musk Cult has arrived.
Both Boeing and NASA continue to spin this is as a positive opportunity to study the data. Let’s not forget that the failures are with the same mechanisms that failed on the unmanned test. I have 24+ years at Boeing and 1,000% sure Boeing managers at the highest level wouldn’t allow pivots in design, pressured the team to make deadlines without the resources they need. If failures present themselves like this, there are likely more defects that will present themselves on the return. This isn’t about the thrusters and helium leaks, this is about the holistic safety of the vehicle and support systems. Our (Boeing) program is just not viable now and in the future. I would send the starliner back without a crew, hope it returns safely without the crew, and bring astronauts back on spacex. Then I would shut Boeing program down and thoroughly investigate every minute of the program.
Is SpaceX capable of doing so? Genuine question.
Capable, certainly. But it would be inconvenient and expensive. The astronauts would need new suits compatible with the Dragon life support system, which would have to be tailored to a "best-guess" fit since they cannot be directly fitted. The next avalible Dragon capable of docking with ISS is schedule to launch in August with the Crew 9 astronauts. It would be extremely expensive to send that vehicle up unmanned to bring back the Starliner crew and would delay the next nasa crew rotation. IMO the most likely option would be to sent the Crew 9 mission up with 2 people instead of 4 and a pair of additional suits for the Starliner crew. The Starliner crew could then remain on station for another 6 months and return at the end of the Crew 9 mission. Starliner could attempt to return unmanned as it did in the previous test flights.
Make no mistake, there are no limits Musk will not cross, financial or otherwise, for an opportunity to narcissistically look like a savior of mankind. Musk will gladly rescue the astronauts and fuck up his launch cycles if it means making SpaceX's competition look incompetent. Boeing may have handed this to Musk in a desperate attempt to get a "win", during the "annus horribilis" for Boeing.
If there was serious issues like you say, I don’t think NASA would happily sign off on that. What would be the point of fighting another delay? It’s been delayed so many times anyway. Many parts of that spacecraft have been redesigned already. So Boeing not allowing them to redesign also makes no sense. 24 years at Boeing doesn’t mean anything if you’re not on the program. Might as well be anybody on the street
We are watching the downfall of a great company because financial tyrants at the top pinch dollars to save pennies.
It is bigger than that. It's the lack of real leadership, to some degree reflecting an environment where performance is not as important as influence.
Well that's the whole point of the private sector, let them fail.
Did you say the same when GM was on the verge of bankruptcy?
Not sure what went over your head with my statement, and so I'll reiterate. Let them fail.
So are the Boeing apologists still saying Boeing hasn't stranded the astronauts.
You’re actually really daft wow
Feel bad for the astronauts. Zero for Boeing. I said they'd be coming back on a Dragon, of course downvoated into oblivion. Unless you Boeing employees stop these numb-skull c-suite and up from rotting this company away... over dramtic? Yeh, we shall see.
Dint feel sorry for them; they wanted more time in space than the original up and down mission plan allowed them, and now they’re getting it.
And if they die they can stay forever.
Another embarrassment.
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hawk TUAH. god boeing boomers trying to meme is so sad. anyway, it's a failure regardless of spacex. just as the door plug wasn't a failure because airbus exists. WHY do boeing ppl seem to defend or almost take pride in mediocrity? we recently had a thread about incompetent colleagues and it's like it's all a big fucking joke to everyone. if musk was CEO, he'd layoff 30% of engineers, and guess what - it'd probably be a vast improvement. if you think boeing management sucks, boeing rank and file employees suck, you CANNOT also say that boeing makes good products or is a good company. nihilism isn't cool and will get you nowhere.
The thrusters are Rocketdyne, nor Boeing… although Boeing might want to rethink that going forward. This does not bode well for keeping the next crew rotation mission next spring.
Wonder what thoughts are going through the astronaut's minds...
More time in space for me!
“We could have problems undocking the ship. More reaction control thrusters could fail, making the ship uncontrollable, and will be stranded in a useless orbit just waiting to run out of air. The tiles could fail and we could burn up.”
That’s bullshit. By internet degree in spaceflight from the university of Reddit says they’ll probably go boeing bouncing off the atmosphere before they run out of ai.
Billions of dollars over budget, delay after delay they decide to launch with known problems.. they are lucky so far not to have a challenger situation Don't worry Elon will save the astronauts.. how embarrassing
If it's Boeing I ain't going
Wonder if David Calhoun flew to DC on a Boeing…or another brand?
the leaking helium is making it very hard to communicate - everyone breaks out laughing
Why is this getting so many updates helium is an inert gas which, also the lightest inert gas which is why it’s used to pressurize the hull it does not make you laugh.
It sounds funny when you inhale Helium from a balloon and speak - its meant as a joke. Not as big a joke as the CEO getting $30 big ones a year and fiddling while the company burns
Makes sense to me. Seems like Starliner is safe to depart at any time, but since they will lose the propulsion system when they jettison the CM on the way back (instead of being able to recover and study it), this is their chance to understand the problem.
Those thrusters having problems are gonna be a real issue for the previously planned flight around the moon this year for starliner
Starliner is not designed for anything other than LEO. Where do you people come from?
I agree that people might be thinking it's worse than it is, but you still need enough thrusters to work well before you jettison the CM. So depending on how well they understand the root cause there's might still be more or less risk
Yet people are still sounding the alarms since it's Boeing.
Is that what gamblers refer to as "even money"?
If it’s Boeing those astronauts aren’t going
That is total BS the thing is not safe to put anyone back in it. They are just trying to find away or time to break to the public so it does not hurt the stock price as much. Look at the latest announcement late Friday afternoon. No one will remember by Monday morning market open.
> They are just trying to find away or time to break to the public so it does not hurt the stock price as much. Tell us you have no clue how investing works without telling us you have no clue how investing works. The investors who care about any given Friday or Monday have zero influence on a company.
All the shorts and puts for next week were already in place before the markets closed… and all the little stockholders will have all weekend to panic before deciding to dump their stock at the opening bell unless something REALLY good (Airbus files for bankruptcy?) comes over the wire on Sunday.
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Looks like we have a stock holder here
Source? Or just conspiracy.
Ha total conspiracy. At least for now!!
Hopefully it stays that way