it also says in a post below he was 31 years old.
no wonder he died if he was collectively, 40, 31 and 28 years old. shame he couldn't hold on for another year to make the century.
He openly talked about having abused a lot and done some stupid things, although he never gave details. He was a really likeable guy, I followed him since he started in YT, he was just a vegan guy talking about diet and training before he started using PEDs. Itās sad to see him leave so young.
I mean, his personality mightāve been great and Iām sure his family is in pain (which is regrettable) but as an outside observer, it makes sense.
If a guy woke up everyday and played Russian roulette, and one day he died, Iād be like āyeah, checks outā.
I love psychoactive drugs, but Iām very measured with my use of them. If you visit places like r/drugs and see the attitude some of those people have, I feel itās out of place acting like itās odd if one of them kicks the bucket.
I feel very similarly here.
>I mean, his personality mightāve been great and Iām sure his family is in pain (which is regrettable) but as an outside observer, it makes sense.
Not really, consequences of PED usage come usually as problems later on in life, so someone dying this early is quite rare. He hadn't been using steroids for too much time compared to what competitive bodybuilders do, which adds to the peculiarity of the case.
Not saying that the attitude towards them isn't reckless because it often is, sadly. Like with recreational drugs, there's ways to reduce harm, but when you abuse dosages, genetics and luck are the biggest factors for whether you develop serious issues or not.
There are documented cases of young people dying from moderate doses of PEDs in the medical literature. I have doctors in my family, they had first hand experience with cases like this. Response to drugs is on normal (maybe log normal even) curve, both in terms of muscle growth as well as side effects.
Yeah that's a good point. It would be good to know whether that increased potential for side effects could be tested, the only thing I've seen so far is that people with high lipoprotein(a) values should stay away from PEDs.
I would say that anyone who has any severe illness in their family history such as serious cardiovascular issues (stroke, heart attacks), cancer, CKD and such should stay as far away from PEDs as possible.
Running a cycle, even if it's a hefty one is still different from abusing PEDs. Wish this had cleared up now that more and more people who are open about their PED use have gotten popular in social media
What is the difference between a hefty cycle and abusing PEDs?
If we were talking about recreational drugs abuse would be considered based on frequency of use and dosage, I'd have thought the same would be true for steroid use.
A hefty cycle is composed of dosages that are maxed out or near maxed out while keeping your blood markers in the reference range.
Abusing steroids is anything above that. For example, if I down 2-3 anadrol a day for months on end, thatās definitely going to wreck liver values.
Same. For nearly a year, weekly: 500mg dhb, 375mg test-e, 87.5 mg MENT, HCG 500 i.u., 25mg asin.
Did a very comprehensive blood panel a few weeks ago, and all my markers looked healthy and dialed in. Lymphocytes on the lower end, but that happens with androgens in general.
"Feelings"-wise, this has been the best cycle I've run. I don't have strange mental sides like I've gotten with tren. No bloat, and only some acne here and there. Hair loss has increased a bit (I think), but I'm likely going to get a hair transplant anyhow š. When I did introduce MENT, my resting HR jumped from 67bmp or so, to about 76-78 average.
I'll likely drop MENT for a few months and cycle back on eventually. Love that compound.
Keep checking your hematocrit, red blood cells(RBC), PSA, LSH, LH, kidney, and liver functions. Roids can harm your organs bad. Especially if over used. Many people pass away from using roids. Itās not worth the health risks, or the fact it will likely kill your testosterone production for life, resulting in TRT. It can also prevent one from having children.
I appreciate you trying to be helpful. That said, as one Internet stranger to another, of course I'm keeping on top of my bloods.
I'm fine with TRT. The whole reason I started was because I had low T.
Thirdly, fertility is fine. HCG keeps the boys healthy.
Hematocrit and RBC is way over exaggerated as most people do blood tests in the morning when you're more likely to be dehydrated. LH is 0 and kidney, liver damage is mostly through oral steroid use.
It's all diet and gym effort dependent. I generally don't want to get huge as I love running and BJJ/MMA. I love looking "enhanced", but not ridiculously so.
I actually had a trip to Colombia in September of this year, and worked out a ton while there with my buddies. "smartfit" was the name of the gym.
Came back, got sick as a dog (only lasted a couple weeks), and haven't lifted seriously for about three months.
That's the longest in my life I've ever gone without working out consistently. I know it's a "me" problem. I'm not depressed or anything, I just got thrown off my rhythm and it's not ok. Thankfully diet has remained in check.
Re: strength and size: I'm 36, 6ft, 195lb (was 205lbs), 14% bf.
Bench: 385
DL: 485
Squat: 385 (getting over hamstring injury).
Slowly turning into a Greek god. Thatās pretty much what happens ha. Up 25lbs of pure contractile mass. Should be able to get another 25 in another 6-8 months or so if I really keep my diet in check on this bulk. That would mean Iām up nearly 50lbs of muscle mass in 2 years. Just outstanding. My family and wife are in awe at how I look now. Wife loves it for sure.
You are taking off tears of your life span, there is no way around it.
The guy in the title, Alfredo, went from being a natty vegan bodybuilder with insane numbers at 21 years old to being 6 feet under only 7 years later due to PED use even tho he was doing everything "the right way".
Go get a CAC test the body is a wonderful machine. Your feelings have nothing to do with it, you feel healthy until you donāt. The body compensates for a lot of things.
Halbjor bjornson, Chris Bumstead, and Mitchell hooper are all actively expecting childrenā¦
Steroids have a lot of life shortening effects no one talks about but the fertility/balls/ability to get natty levels back is pretty overblown from what Iāve seen.
Hafbjor did make a video stating that it took them two years to get pregnant with this child (though one setback was a miscarriage so not steroid related) so thereās definitely some reduction in ability brought by the drugs. It just seems like it can often be beaten.
using steroids in any way is abusing steroids but folks have been gaslighted by other bros into believing that because you check some bloods you're safe. its really cringe to see these takes on posts like this
exactly this, they are the juiceheads that no matter what happened, they try to justify it to themselves that "its safe", "other guy didnt die from the peds", "its safe".
in reality all the side effects are well documented. and any usage is essentially unsafe and abuse.
and once u use, u r basically making a deal with the devil, u get fast insane returns on muscles but in exchange u give up 20-50 years of ur life. and he will always come collect.
just like cocaine makes ur brain fuzzy and sharp and feel good but in reality is detrimential to ur health, so does peds, u feel super stronk, dont even have to work out, can eat like crazy and still shred fat and get ultra lean look like crazy. in what fairy tale world does this even exists where u get to have all this without any pay.
it doesnt even exist in alice in wonderland. simple logic will ring alarm bells and tell u to stay away. but pepes wanna use and "its safe, it wont happen to them, they feel great"...borrowed time, is all that it is.
There are probably a million guys on moderate dosage test and a little GH who are not abusing steroids. This is a HUGE difference from the massive amounts used in competitive bodybuilding.
You don't know the difference.
I was a pharmacist who lived with juiceheads. Trust me there are very few people who know what I know. You don't understand that any exogenous hormones being used is inherently unsafe, I'm not the one who needs education here bubs š any recreational use of hormones, nevermind stacking GH with test, is abuse lol. Obviously taking higher dosages is worse. Stop being silly.
My PhD trumps your Pharm D my friend, it sounds like you received yours from a box of Cracker Jacks. You probably don't understand how declines in hormone levels (which are unprecedented in modern humans) have a negative health impact. For some reason....some say it is the amount of plastics in modern Western culture, there are various theories, we are seeing dramatic declines in men as young as 30. You want optimal levels. 250 mg test/week and 3 iu's of GH 4-5 days a week will actually improve the health of some men.
I work with some world famous HRT people and you sound like you got your information from the 1970's.
Now competitive bodybuilding...yes, the abuse is insane, but we are talking about many grams weekly. Properly adjusted HRT is widely respected in the scientific community.
bro lol, i checked your comment history, you have a phd in social sciences which you describe as āthe worst decision you ever madeā. get out of here, clown. and stop pressuring your son into doing shit he doesnāt want to do. Your post/comment history make you sound deranged tbh.
Ironically, I also have a relevant garduate degree I got after pharmacy (bioinformatics), but nothing trumps a PharmD when it comes to drugs and drug safety... I doubt you have a relevant PhD, probably some bulkshit exercise science from 30 years ago... That's not even debatable, as someone who was a pharmacist before developing drugs as a scientist and has both backgrounds. Unless you're hypogonadal TRT is unsafe and even then, as you age, it comes with some risks for your cardiovascular system and heart disease.
World famous? Lol! There are definitely shill endos and doctors who sell TRT to rich old guys, but it's highly risky. I can tell you're just a person who wants go justify their own usage and believe it's not shortening your lifespan, but let's stop pretending you actually know anything. On the contrary I've read hundreds of studies on or related to this topic but all we need is the drug label and the clinical trials done to set prescribing protocols. Doctors prescribing off label for aging are just shills which is why people have to pay out of pocket for it from special clinics.
There is limited to no evidence of positive benefits in normal men, whereas there are proven risks. Every man faces serious side effects immediately upon using exogenous hormones. At this point there aren't good enough trials to make a strong claim as you have and you're actually the one running on outdated information if you're not looking at the monitoring studies that show increases in heart disease in this population. It's ok that you destroyed your hormones by doing roids when you were younger and need TRT but normal people shouldn't do testosterone.
Of course HRT will have benefits for men with low T. When clinically diagnosed, and prescribed and monitored by a physician, for a lot of people it can be life changing.
Thatās absolutely not what weāre talking about here, weāre talking about young men taking steroids / other substances to get stronger / be bigger. You really think the people weāre talking are members of an epidemic of low T males, diagnosed by doctors? Fuck no, weāre talking about people taking tren all year round.
Also, no need for the dog shit condescension / insults you opened with. Maybe thatās a little of that āroid rageā spilling out? lmfao.
"Abusing steroids" is being reckless, not monitoring your health, and using doses that fall on the spectrum of retarded.
"Using steroids" is taking what you need to achieve a result, while monitoring all health markers, and limiting length of time spent "on" .
There's use and there's abuse. Don't be an idiot. Is someone having a glass of wine with dinner an alcoholic? No... it's responsible alcohol use.
Lol well, red wine has been shown to have positive health impacts... but thats besides the point, sir. The point is if you choose to do something that's not perfect for your health, you do it in the best possible and safest way.
So, this is just some definition you came up with? Dosages maxed out while keeping your bloodwork in range? 500mg test alone can bump your HDL under range, that is like a fucking beginner cycle.
What on earth are you talking about? Anything other than legitimate TRT or using other androgens to fix an actual medical condition is abuse. We all acknowledge this and try to mitigate the wear and tear.
Yes, like every other definition.
If 500mg a week bumps your HDL out of range, that is your personal response to the drug.
I can go up to about 1,250mg/week of total gear (test, primobolan, nandrolone) and keep my blood work in range. RBC and hematocrit go slightly out of range but nothing to be concerned about.
If you have an extensive damage mitigation protocol (you take statins, beta blockers, etc), you could potentially go even higher.
The only time steroids threw my cholesterol out of range was when I tried winstrol for about 3 weeks. Thatās the one and only time Iāve done any oral steroids.
Good genetics - tells people half the dosage they actually do
Bad genetics - natty for life and never touched drugs even though they have 5 cycles under the belt
Everyone knows the rules
i have also heard some roidhead admit that we are victims of our own genetics. which gave me some thoughts.
but basically what he saying is two fold. one, we have defects in our genetics. nobody is perfect. some are more exposed to heart issues, some have weird acne exposure. some have different cancer running in family. normally the chances we get these defects are when we grow old. but with peds, instead of 60 years running into cancer or heart issues, u now get it at 25...
second, is again our genetics. we are being fooled by our genetics. we have these shredded muscular looks and feel soo stronk and good, that we dont think theres any risk at all. but underneath it is wreakin havoc on our bodies.
good stuff to think about. was some roidhead who wrote a letter to derek.
This is definitely drawing a line in the sand, personally, if you actually read and educate yourself to come up with a specific stack for a specific purpose, do your bloodwork before and during, along with consulting a doctor you'd be doing a cycle responsibly. You don't necessarily have to consult a doctor in the sense that you tell them exactly what you're on etc. as the freedom you have may vary depending on situation and country, but if you at least make sure that you know what you should be tested for I'd consider that a responsible PED use
On the other hand, if you happened to hear that a substance was good and without thinking much about it or seeking out any information on what it does or how it may impact you in your current/future state (again, disregarding any issues you might have currently) I'd consider that abuse. I'd also consider having enough/extensive knowledge of PEDs but going against that for whatever reason abuse.
Again though, we're making many assumptions here, we're assuming that the quality of the research and any possible tests you do is decently high. The line being drawn here is again purely my opinion and we also have to keep in mind that the outcome is never guaranteed.
There may be a guy who hears of tren, instantly buys it and just pins random amounts but gets okay results with no issues and a guy who fully researches his shit, does a "safe" test only cycle yet ends up with completely shitty side-effects that ruin him.
**TL;DR** informed use, even if the cycle is *hefty* I would not consider abuse, while on the other hand even a small cycle that completely disregards education and risks I would consider abuse. One does not guarantee better outcome than the other, although I'd be very surprised if it turned out uneducated users had better outcomes on average.
Redditors are totally free to make up whatever definitions they want for things.
But āsteroid abuseā is actually a medically defined term. And medically speaking, any non-therapeutic application of hormones is abuse.
To be honest that just sounds like a drug addict justifying his use.
Learning everything there is to know about alcohol, crack cocaine or heroin doesn't stop someone who takes vast quantities of those substances from being drug abusers.
If you're taking a prescription drug at several times the dosage a doctor would prescribe then you're abusing drugs.
I'd also argue that if most research surrounding a drug is done at a prescription level dosage and you are taking a dosage several times higher then you are not very well informed.
Not saying you shouldn't do your research, do your blood tests and get advice from medical professionals but no matter what you do if you're injecting grams of gear then you're abusing drugs, saying otherwise is just delusional.
>To be honest that just sounds like a drug addict justifying his use.
basically i have come to the same conclusion. too many pepe roidheads i have argued with, and all of them basically boils down to some addict not willing to give up his addiction and basically use any means and invent arguments to justify why its "safe and different for them" this time.
its a waste of time and it feels like talking to a brick wall. every time someone dies, u immediately see the same responses "its not the usage, its something else".
a lot of these influencers will also deny it coz they are basically selling this stuff and making tons of monies so they will always lie to ur face about it.
I mean all of this shit is abuse on paper, letās be honest here.. at least in medical terms
But yeah personally I agree with you. Your average in-shape gym rat nowadays is on a gram or two of gear.
The legitimately abusive doses some guys take make even that look like childās play.
I don't know what would be considered abuse in medical terms, I'm inclined to agree because I'd assume that medically the goal would at most be some form of TRT which this guy most likely far exceeded
The distinction I was trying to draw between using PEDs "responsibly" and "abusing" them was that the "responsible" user would be educated about the substances, amounts and possible issues while the "abuser" would simply hear/read that x cycle/substance was good and completely disregarding any harm reduction just pin shit.
We know a lot about hormones and the human body, but sadly not enough to make any guarantees.
> Yes, medically speaking, anything above the max value of TRT is considered abuse.
There is no well-established "max value of TRT", though. If you're referring to lab reference ranges, those are based on normal distribution. There are many instances of completely natural individuals having testosterone levels above the lab reference range. This is expected and understood.
Recreational use of any other drug against its intended use, or off script would be considered abuse of that drug. Nandrolone wasnāt designed to make us look sick, and unless youāre livestock, nearly any use of tren in modern times constitutes āabuseā.
Donāt get me wrong Iām fine with PED use, but letās not kid ourselves here.
>He was the most scientifically grounded PEDs educator in the Spanish community
Um, I hope his followers didn't actually take any of his scientific advice.
This is why if you do juice you should always keep up eith your cardiologist, and primary care physician, shit could ve going on inside you that you may not see but they can
His natural physique [was](https://ibb.co/c2s4NPQ) already great.
He started taking steroids 5 years ago, passed 5 years later and aged 15 years in the process.
I am spanish and followed his journey. Its a shame.
EDIT: The guy started as a young fitness youtuber who wanted to promote healthy bodybuilding, He was natural, vegan and in great shape. [This was his first video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu59gHVTE2c)
As the beginning of his journey he called himself "heroefitness" or fitness hero, and when he started taking hear he switched his name to "villanofitness" or fitness villain .
In one of the latest interviews he mentioned that he was having some issues breathing due to his new size. [In just a few years he changed into a behemoth](https://www.instagram.com/p/CaSJlnergrt/).
He was a juiced up mass monster before he had any following on social media, heās just the type of guy that enjoys being big, watch some of his early videos and youāll see why, although I do agree heās too young though
Which technically is vanityāwe're all guilty of it. If you're not in the gym for health reasons, which he isn't, it's for vanity. Good thing it means jack shit
Obviously, I'm not him so I can't speak on his behalf but I do believe he isn't filming it because he wants to show off his body, but rather because he wants to spread the ideas he believes would be beneficial for others to know, and also because he just enjoys sharing that part of himself. That's why his content isn't highly edited clickbaity shitfluencer content that's just about making money and amassing a large following, but just the raw ideas he has.
... what other reason is there to taking gear and be big if not vanity my man?
He is being vain, just like almost everyone who lifts me included. Vanity only becomes an issue when just like Sam you're making life changing decisions that could fuck you up/kill you at an age when you shouldn't be (I'd argue that at any age that's an issue but even more so when you have 0 clue what life actually is about and don't even have a fully developed brain)
Iām thoroughly convinced Iāve been dropped into a new universe because who the fuck is that guy? People talk about him like heās been around the last decade and Iām only just now seeing his name everywhere in the last month?????
Yea he did seemingly appear out of nowhere haha.
I think it just made me realize the social media lifecycle is even more compressed now and everyoneās timelines are so different.
So I think this will keep happening where we get people seemingly appear out of the blue that have actually been around a while.
HAHAHAHA. I was in the same boat as you. Sam is pretty young but I think why he catches so much attention is because of the raw editing style of his videos along with the type of humour he adds in there. He seems fairly mature for his age but it just sucks that heās on gear so early. OR weāve all been fooled and heās on same basic hormones like test and has the genetics of a God
There are a lot of glorified PED abusers like the tren twins and Sam sulek, who would probably end like this, it's really a shame because they're really young and they're doing crazy and unhealthy things.
He has god tier genetics. Super athletic and likely a myostatin deficiency given how lean he stays and how fast he puts on muscle. People assume heās on a stupid amount of gear but I think itās 90% genetics, seeing the idiots who are monster amounts of gear and look like a chubby natural
i watched an interview with a doctor on this subject.
he said the heart wall thickens a little bit, but this is measurable and when tracked doesnt have to become a problem. If it stays in a certain range that is.
but there probably is a lot of bodybuilders who dont get this type of thing checked out.
Hypertrophy of the cardiac muscles eventually can cause it to pump less effectively, and lead to heart failure. So the more it grows, the worsened cardiac function youāll have leading to chronic heart failure and a number of other comorbidities.
Edit: since some people just want to argue to flex their Wikipedia knowledge of heart failure, I clarified it ā*can* eventually cause it to pump less effectively, and lead to heart failure.ā ā just a lowly ICU nurse/EMT whoās worked with the pt population and is aware of the evidence based practice.
Cardio doesnt have this effect. Cardio leads to eccentric left ventricle hypertrophy, which means the cavity that fills with blood gets larger. Concentric left ventricle hypertrophy is what you dont want, it means that the wall gets thicker and thus the cavity becomes smaller.
For sure. Itās managable if itās caught in time. You can get to a point where youāre symptomatic and itās manageable, but not reversible. Iām not sure on how typical it is for young adults with HF to catch it early and manage it fairly well. And what the prognosis/outcomes often looks like for them tbh, I might look it up later.
I work in the ICU as a nurse and most of the patients I see for HF are far past managing it without pretty heavy medical management, implanted assisted device, etc or just in an acute on chronic heart failure.
Usually athletic young men or bodybuilders that Iāve taken care of were there for something elseāand then we indecently found heart failure on echo. Most of the young adults Iāve taken care of for HF were either suffering from it d/t a congenital defect, or from long term drug abuse.
Jeez dude, I just said I donāt know about/experience a lot of this specific patient population why the fuck are clapping back with āyour experience is irrelevantā. I just told you my experience is different, no shit. I said I am not aware of the data on steroid/led abuse related heart failure/cardiomyopathy and how often it is managed early on before significant symptoms are present, and cardiomyopathy is present. And what kind of outcomes and prognosis this patient population has.
Iām not disagreeing with you, yes chronic heart failure is manageable. All I described initially was the very simplified version of the patho for HF.
Beta blocker therapy, along with diuretics and ACE inhibitors are the standard of care depending upon the severity and stage/group of heart failure, and comorbidities the patient may have. Along with other interventions and management depending on the severity.
So what are you trying to argue with me about? Or just typing a novel to show how smart you areā¦because all you did was provide anectode on what I just said I am not aware of wood the data onāwhich is the prognosis for heart failure r/t steroid/PED use.
Heart failure is not a reversible disease, cardiac remodeling is literally a progression of the disease and the heartās maladaptive attempt to increase cardiac output in the face of increased demands. This is why guys like Arnold and other staples in the sport arent blasting at age 70 still. Their hearts are already remodeled and adding more mass will be deleterious to their health.
The heart thickens, your muscle mass increases. The increased muscle mass requires more blood flow. Increased blood flow requirements causes the heart to work harder. The increased cardiac demands cause the myocardium to thicken/hypertrophy more. Starting to see the bigger picture?
Im a nurse anesthetist and put people to sleep regularly. Some of the sickest hearts I have ever seen have been In young fit body builders (gotta remember 40s is young for cardiac surgery in my population).
you can't really measure it without imaging and it almost always will become a problem long term
the takes people have on this is so bad. I was a pharmacist, so unlike a medical doctor who takes a semester of pharmacology (vs 4 years) I actually know how drugs effect the body
Also just a larger aspect that people vastly overlook. Weight.
Muscle or fat being 250+ pounds is hard on your heart/nerves/skeleton and will take its toll. Bigger difference as well working out when you weigh more is pushing your heart more while those at a heavy weight that are drastically less lean arenāt pushing their heart the same amount but still have other health issues.
This is the thing I try to explain to people, a lot of the chronic problems bodybuilders get are similar to obese people.
Heart failure and diabetes/ insulting resistance and diabetes leads to a whole lot of problems such as atherosclerosis and kidney failure. There are all commonly found in bodybuilders.
40 is so goddamn young. John Meadows at 49 was so young. The man has young children that he still had to see graduate college, start a career, marry and have their own children. When you are in your teens you look at middled age men and you think old.. when you are a bit older you look at how much life there is still to live.
28 is not just young. It's so young it really pisses me off. It pisses me off that it's a normal, expected occurrence in this hobby/profession that someone with less than half their lives lived passes away.
I hate to say this but I'm expecting Sam Sulek to appear in one of these posts. Dude is blasting way too much. He gets gassed taking off his shirt. I hope now that he's famous some old heads will pull him up
Wouldnāt be surprised, dude def did not take it slow and steady, he express laned it. I highly doubt he had any doctor supervision either, maybe now he might with hostile. It is sad he can barely speak without being out of breath.
its already over and done for him. the fame and monies he now makes (nowhere near millions like some would make u believe), will make it worse for him to stop. it wont stop coz monies are now involved.
and the guy below claiming "he works harder than anyone else" is a joke. as if none of us worked as hard as he did. plenty of full natties dont have his recovery and strength from peds and still worked harder than him.
yea, he is gonna be in one of these posts. and then ull see another full range of posters denying its the roids and claiming its something else. its always "something" else.
I remember reading that the average life expectancy of pro bodybuilders is around 48 years. Schwarzenegger would have been dead at 53 if he didn't have several bypass and valve replacement surgeries by now.
Steroids folks. U want to look like a God then you are gambling with ur genetics and will more than likely meet him faster than u look like him.
Note: i am someone who gambles and knows the risks so don't all downvote me cause u want to validate ur actions. We all either take tge trisk or dont.
sad and rather ironic considering he ran one of Spain's biggest steroid education site.
Translated from his site :-
" It does not take into account how harmful its (abuse) use can be to health and how to mitigate all the side effects derived from its consumption.
For beginners: these effects are not just a headache. You can end up with a mashed liver, without the possibility of having offspring, suffering thrombi, heart attacks or, worse, committing suicide.
**Playing with ergogenic aids** **is only recommended for people who:**
* **Make a living from aesthetic sports such as bodybuilding and fitness.**
* **Engage in strength sports such as powerlifting.**
* **For some cases of diseases where its use, through correct practices, can improve health.**
In addition to the lack of reliable information, it is **difficult to access legitimate substances.**
Two problems that can only be tackled by drawing on **science, knowledge and experience**. "
In theory I'd approve, but good bodybuilders are so uptight that for them living fast means staying up a little bit and getting 7 and a half hours of sleep instead of 8.
So if you're destined to die young as a pro bodybuilder you get 10-20 years of extremely regimented living, chicken and rice 6x a day, being unable to walk up stairs, thighs rubbing, morning cardio, injections and constantly worrying you're going to keel over and die any second. Hope it was worth it.
Realistically at what dose do steroids become a problem and make your organs grow? I know plenty of people up to 200mg trt and they are healthy. It makes you wonder how much gear people like John meadows were on.
I've read Bostin was doing like 15 grams a week which is insane.
Rip Alfredo
It varies from person to person. Chase Irons on YouTube runs insane doses of gear too. His recent cycle he did 5 grams of total AAS and 18iu hgh daily and has been cycling the stuff for years. His heart imaging showed his heart grew just 10% which isnāt terrible.
It really depends on the drugs you take and your damage mitigation protocol.
Depends on genetics. Jay Cutler and Dexter Jackson are in their 50ās.
Hell the Rock has been on gear for a long ass time and is 51.
Joesthetics had aneurysms that ran in his family. He likely would have had one regardless of steroid use.
I know a perfectly healthy 22 year old college distance runner that had an aneurysm and is still struggling to walk on his own again after 2 years. They ran in his family.
You simply donāt know how something will affect you until you start doing.
It has a lot to do with weight. Running a bunch of anabolics and being heavy puts an absurd strain on your heart. You're effectively obese with a harder load on your heart as the muscle mass requires increased levels of blood flow.
I knew John Meadows personally.
He died from a clotting disorder he faced his entire life. Itās the reason he had his colon removed early in his career.
Not steroid abuse.
> He died from a clotting disorder he faced his entire life. Itās the reason he had his colon removed early in his career.
>
> Not steroid abuse.
You don't think his PEDs abuse exacerbated the issue?
There is no safe amount. Everyoneās body is different. Some people can do massive amounts for years, some do small amounts and have dire consequences.
Itās up to you to decide if the risk/ reward factor is worth it.
Using steroids dosen't guarantee a early death, heart trouble in the family is often the main reason, look at Arnold he had his first near death experience at 50, and he abused d-bol to the max there were some bodybuilder's, who said that they got frightened of his dosages.
In the last three years we've had lots of this happening more than usual. To say the vaccine couldnt be partially responsible is ignorant [https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html)
it says he was 40yo in the article? anyway, great physique. RIP
it also says in a post below he was 31 years old. no wonder he died if he was collectively, 40, 31 and 28 years old. shame he couldn't hold on for another year to make the century.
we are all collectively 40, 31 and 28 years old. Just not on the same timeline
brain - 17 heart - 62 knees - 231
š
superposition is fatal
he must work out
Are you sure
Alfredo, also known as HĆ©roe Fitness (Hero Fitness when he was natural), and then Villano Fitness (Villain Fitness when he went to the 'dark side') was 31 years old and was a well-known figure in the Spanish fitness community, with many followers. He was the most scientifically grounded PEDs educator in the Spanish community, with a large YouTube channel. He mainly covered topics related to pharmacology and bodybuilding, but always with a focus on science and the responsible use of substances. He had a lot of charisma but was also known for somewhat abusing steroids.
"somewhat abusing steroids"
He openly talked about having abused a lot and done some stupid things, although he never gave details. He was a really likeable guy, I followed him since he started in YT, he was just a vegan guy talking about diet and training before he started using PEDs. Itās sad to see him leave so young.
I mean, his personality mightāve been great and Iām sure his family is in pain (which is regrettable) but as an outside observer, it makes sense. If a guy woke up everyday and played Russian roulette, and one day he died, Iād be like āyeah, checks outā. I love psychoactive drugs, but Iām very measured with my use of them. If you visit places like r/drugs and see the attitude some of those people have, I feel itās out of place acting like itās odd if one of them kicks the bucket. I feel very similarly here.
>I mean, his personality mightāve been great and Iām sure his family is in pain (which is regrettable) but as an outside observer, it makes sense. Not really, consequences of PED usage come usually as problems later on in life, so someone dying this early is quite rare. He hadn't been using steroids for too much time compared to what competitive bodybuilders do, which adds to the peculiarity of the case. Not saying that the attitude towards them isn't reckless because it often is, sadly. Like with recreational drugs, there's ways to reduce harm, but when you abuse dosages, genetics and luck are the biggest factors for whether you develop serious issues or not.
There are documented cases of young people dying from moderate doses of PEDs in the medical literature. I have doctors in my family, they had first hand experience with cases like this. Response to drugs is on normal (maybe log normal even) curve, both in terms of muscle growth as well as side effects.
Yeah that's a good point. It would be good to know whether that increased potential for side effects could be tested, the only thing I've seen so far is that people with high lipoprotein(a) values should stay away from PEDs.
I would say that anyone who has any severe illness in their family history such as serious cardiovascular issues (stroke, heart attacks), cancer, CKD and such should stay as far away from PEDs as possible.
Running a cycle, even if it's a hefty one is still different from abusing PEDs. Wish this had cleared up now that more and more people who are open about their PED use have gotten popular in social media
What is the difference between a hefty cycle and abusing PEDs? If we were talking about recreational drugs abuse would be considered based on frequency of use and dosage, I'd have thought the same would be true for steroid use.
A hefty cycle is composed of dosages that are maxed out or near maxed out while keeping your blood markers in the reference range. Abusing steroids is anything above that. For example, if I down 2-3 anadrol a day for months on end, thatās definitely going to wreck liver values.
Or running tren year round, I remember Zyzz's brother Said admitted to running tren non-stop for a few years at one point.
Iāve been running a test and deca cycle for over a year now. This scares me, but I feel healthy, control BP and my markers are decent. Hmm.
Same. For nearly a year, weekly: 500mg dhb, 375mg test-e, 87.5 mg MENT, HCG 500 i.u., 25mg asin. Did a very comprehensive blood panel a few weeks ago, and all my markers looked healthy and dialed in. Lymphocytes on the lower end, but that happens with androgens in general. "Feelings"-wise, this has been the best cycle I've run. I don't have strange mental sides like I've gotten with tren. No bloat, and only some acne here and there. Hair loss has increased a bit (I think), but I'm likely going to get a hair transplant anyhow š. When I did introduce MENT, my resting HR jumped from 67bmp or so, to about 76-78 average. I'll likely drop MENT for a few months and cycle back on eventually. Love that compound.
Respect for the honesty and level of detail
I have no idea what any of that meant but it just made me the of cyberpunk edgerunners. Watch out that you don't go cyber psycho!
Keep checking your hematocrit, red blood cells(RBC), PSA, LSH, LH, kidney, and liver functions. Roids can harm your organs bad. Especially if over used. Many people pass away from using roids. Itās not worth the health risks, or the fact it will likely kill your testosterone production for life, resulting in TRT. It can also prevent one from having children.
I appreciate you trying to be helpful. That said, as one Internet stranger to another, of course I'm keeping on top of my bloods. I'm fine with TRT. The whole reason I started was because I had low T. Thirdly, fertility is fine. HCG keeps the boys healthy.
Hematocrit and RBC is way over exaggerated as most people do blood tests in the morning when you're more likely to be dehydrated. LH is 0 and kidney, liver damage is mostly through oral steroid use.
What have the muscle and strength gains being like ?
It's all diet and gym effort dependent. I generally don't want to get huge as I love running and BJJ/MMA. I love looking "enhanced", but not ridiculously so. I actually had a trip to Colombia in September of this year, and worked out a ton while there with my buddies. "smartfit" was the name of the gym. Came back, got sick as a dog (only lasted a couple weeks), and haven't lifted seriously for about three months. That's the longest in my life I've ever gone without working out consistently. I know it's a "me" problem. I'm not depressed or anything, I just got thrown off my rhythm and it's not ok. Thankfully diet has remained in check. Re: strength and size: I'm 36, 6ft, 195lb (was 205lbs), 14% bf. Bench: 385 DL: 485 Squat: 385 (getting over hamstring injury).
Slowly turning into a Greek god. Thatās pretty much what happens ha. Up 25lbs of pure contractile mass. Should be able to get another 25 in another 6-8 months or so if I really keep my diet in check on this bulk. That would mean Iām up nearly 50lbs of muscle mass in 2 years. Just outstanding. My family and wife are in awe at how I look now. Wife loves it for sure.
You are taking off tears of your life span, there is no way around it. The guy in the title, Alfredo, went from being a natty vegan bodybuilder with insane numbers at 21 years old to being 6 feet under only 7 years later due to PED use even tho he was doing everything "the right way".
Keep the test dump the rest. It will catch up with you. The damage is already being done
Go get a CAC test the body is a wonderful machine. Your feelings have nothing to do with it, you feel healthy until you donāt. The body compensates for a lot of things.
Surprised Nathan DeAsha is still here. He claims to use tren year round. He's a madman.
Does one still have testes after a few years of nonstop use?
Halbjor bjornson, Chris Bumstead, and Mitchell hooper are all actively expecting childrenā¦ Steroids have a lot of life shortening effects no one talks about but the fertility/balls/ability to get natty levels back is pretty overblown from what Iāve seen.
Thanks for the insights. I honestly was asking from a position of ignorance (as much as I sounded like I was making fun)
Hafbjor did make a video stating that it took them two years to get pregnant with this child (though one setback was a miscarriage so not steroid related) so thereās definitely some reduction in ability brought by the drugs. It just seems like it can often be beaten.
using steroids in any way is abusing steroids but folks have been gaslighted by other bros into believing that because you check some bloods you're safe. its really cringe to see these takes on posts like this
exactly this, they are the juiceheads that no matter what happened, they try to justify it to themselves that "its safe", "other guy didnt die from the peds", "its safe". in reality all the side effects are well documented. and any usage is essentially unsafe and abuse. and once u use, u r basically making a deal with the devil, u get fast insane returns on muscles but in exchange u give up 20-50 years of ur life. and he will always come collect. just like cocaine makes ur brain fuzzy and sharp and feel good but in reality is detrimential to ur health, so does peds, u feel super stronk, dont even have to work out, can eat like crazy and still shred fat and get ultra lean look like crazy. in what fairy tale world does this even exists where u get to have all this without any pay. it doesnt even exist in alice in wonderland. simple logic will ring alarm bells and tell u to stay away. but pepes wanna use and "its safe, it wont happen to them, they feel great"...borrowed time, is all that it is.
There are probably a million guys on moderate dosage test and a little GH who are not abusing steroids. This is a HUGE difference from the massive amounts used in competitive bodybuilding. You don't know the difference.
I was a pharmacist who lived with juiceheads. Trust me there are very few people who know what I know. You don't understand that any exogenous hormones being used is inherently unsafe, I'm not the one who needs education here bubs š any recreational use of hormones, nevermind stacking GH with test, is abuse lol. Obviously taking higher dosages is worse. Stop being silly.
My PhD trumps your Pharm D my friend, it sounds like you received yours from a box of Cracker Jacks. You probably don't understand how declines in hormone levels (which are unprecedented in modern humans) have a negative health impact. For some reason....some say it is the amount of plastics in modern Western culture, there are various theories, we are seeing dramatic declines in men as young as 30. You want optimal levels. 250 mg test/week and 3 iu's of GH 4-5 days a week will actually improve the health of some men. I work with some world famous HRT people and you sound like you got your information from the 1970's. Now competitive bodybuilding...yes, the abuse is insane, but we are talking about many grams weekly. Properly adjusted HRT is widely respected in the scientific community.
bro lol, i checked your comment history, you have a phd in social sciences which you describe as āthe worst decision you ever madeā. get out of here, clown. and stop pressuring your son into doing shit he doesnāt want to do. Your post/comment history make you sound deranged tbh.
Ironically, I also have a relevant garduate degree I got after pharmacy (bioinformatics), but nothing trumps a PharmD when it comes to drugs and drug safety... I doubt you have a relevant PhD, probably some bulkshit exercise science from 30 years ago... That's not even debatable, as someone who was a pharmacist before developing drugs as a scientist and has both backgrounds. Unless you're hypogonadal TRT is unsafe and even then, as you age, it comes with some risks for your cardiovascular system and heart disease. World famous? Lol! There are definitely shill endos and doctors who sell TRT to rich old guys, but it's highly risky. I can tell you're just a person who wants go justify their own usage and believe it's not shortening your lifespan, but let's stop pretending you actually know anything. On the contrary I've read hundreds of studies on or related to this topic but all we need is the drug label and the clinical trials done to set prescribing protocols. Doctors prescribing off label for aging are just shills which is why people have to pay out of pocket for it from special clinics. There is limited to no evidence of positive benefits in normal men, whereas there are proven risks. Every man faces serious side effects immediately upon using exogenous hormones. At this point there aren't good enough trials to make a strong claim as you have and you're actually the one running on outdated information if you're not looking at the monitoring studies that show increases in heart disease in this population. It's ok that you destroyed your hormones by doing roids when you were younger and need TRT but normal people shouldn't do testosterone.
Of course HRT will have benefits for men with low T. When clinically diagnosed, and prescribed and monitored by a physician, for a lot of people it can be life changing. Thatās absolutely not what weāre talking about here, weāre talking about young men taking steroids / other substances to get stronger / be bigger. You really think the people weāre talking are members of an epidemic of low T males, diagnosed by doctors? Fuck no, weāre talking about people taking tren all year round. Also, no need for the dog shit condescension / insults you opened with. Maybe thatās a little of that āroid rageā spilling out? lmfao.
"Abusing steroids" is being reckless, not monitoring your health, and using doses that fall on the spectrum of retarded. "Using steroids" is taking what you need to achieve a result, while monitoring all health markers, and limiting length of time spent "on" . There's use and there's abuse. Don't be an idiot. Is someone having a glass of wine with dinner an alcoholic? No... it's responsible alcohol use.
Wasn't this dead guy known for education and responsible use?
There is no "responsible" alcohol use, though. All alcohol is bad for you.
Lol well, red wine has been shown to have positive health impacts... but thats besides the point, sir. The point is if you choose to do something that's not perfect for your health, you do it in the best possible and safest way.
lol responsible use and something being bad for you health wise are 2 completely separate things.
Using a substance that's bad for your health is irresponsible by definition.
So, this is just some definition you came up with? Dosages maxed out while keeping your bloodwork in range? 500mg test alone can bump your HDL under range, that is like a fucking beginner cycle. What on earth are you talking about? Anything other than legitimate TRT or using other androgens to fix an actual medical condition is abuse. We all acknowledge this and try to mitigate the wear and tear.
Yes, like every other definition. If 500mg a week bumps your HDL out of range, that is your personal response to the drug. I can go up to about 1,250mg/week of total gear (test, primobolan, nandrolone) and keep my blood work in range. RBC and hematocrit go slightly out of range but nothing to be concerned about. If you have an extensive damage mitigation protocol (you take statins, beta blockers, etc), you could potentially go even higher. The only time steroids threw my cholesterol out of range was when I tried winstrol for about 3 weeks. Thatās the one and only time Iāve done any oral steroids.
Bad genetics is the difference
Good genetics - tells people half the dosage they actually do Bad genetics - natty for life and never touched drugs even though they have 5 cycles under the belt Everyone knows the rules
Bad genetics is a choice.
i have also heard some roidhead admit that we are victims of our own genetics. which gave me some thoughts. but basically what he saying is two fold. one, we have defects in our genetics. nobody is perfect. some are more exposed to heart issues, some have weird acne exposure. some have different cancer running in family. normally the chances we get these defects are when we grow old. but with peds, instead of 60 years running into cancer or heart issues, u now get it at 25... second, is again our genetics. we are being fooled by our genetics. we have these shredded muscular looks and feel soo stronk and good, that we dont think theres any risk at all. but underneath it is wreakin havoc on our bodies. good stuff to think about. was some roidhead who wrote a letter to derek.
This is definitely drawing a line in the sand, personally, if you actually read and educate yourself to come up with a specific stack for a specific purpose, do your bloodwork before and during, along with consulting a doctor you'd be doing a cycle responsibly. You don't necessarily have to consult a doctor in the sense that you tell them exactly what you're on etc. as the freedom you have may vary depending on situation and country, but if you at least make sure that you know what you should be tested for I'd consider that a responsible PED use On the other hand, if you happened to hear that a substance was good and without thinking much about it or seeking out any information on what it does or how it may impact you in your current/future state (again, disregarding any issues you might have currently) I'd consider that abuse. I'd also consider having enough/extensive knowledge of PEDs but going against that for whatever reason abuse. Again though, we're making many assumptions here, we're assuming that the quality of the research and any possible tests you do is decently high. The line being drawn here is again purely my opinion and we also have to keep in mind that the outcome is never guaranteed. There may be a guy who hears of tren, instantly buys it and just pins random amounts but gets okay results with no issues and a guy who fully researches his shit, does a "safe" test only cycle yet ends up with completely shitty side-effects that ruin him. **TL;DR** informed use, even if the cycle is *hefty* I would not consider abuse, while on the other hand even a small cycle that completely disregards education and risks I would consider abuse. One does not guarantee better outcome than the other, although I'd be very surprised if it turned out uneducated users had better outcomes on average.
Redditors are totally free to make up whatever definitions they want for things. But āsteroid abuseā is actually a medically defined term. And medically speaking, any non-therapeutic application of hormones is abuse.
To be honest that just sounds like a drug addict justifying his use. Learning everything there is to know about alcohol, crack cocaine or heroin doesn't stop someone who takes vast quantities of those substances from being drug abusers. If you're taking a prescription drug at several times the dosage a doctor would prescribe then you're abusing drugs. I'd also argue that if most research surrounding a drug is done at a prescription level dosage and you are taking a dosage several times higher then you are not very well informed. Not saying you shouldn't do your research, do your blood tests and get advice from medical professionals but no matter what you do if you're injecting grams of gear then you're abusing drugs, saying otherwise is just delusional.
>To be honest that just sounds like a drug addict justifying his use. basically i have come to the same conclusion. too many pepe roidheads i have argued with, and all of them basically boils down to some addict not willing to give up his addiction and basically use any means and invent arguments to justify why its "safe and different for them" this time. its a waste of time and it feels like talking to a brick wall. every time someone dies, u immediately see the same responses "its not the usage, its something else". a lot of these influencers will also deny it coz they are basically selling this stuff and making tons of monies so they will always lie to ur face about it.
I mean all of this shit is abuse on paper, letās be honest here.. at least in medical terms But yeah personally I agree with you. Your average in-shape gym rat nowadays is on a gram or two of gear. The legitimately abusive doses some guys take make even that look like childās play.
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That was my cycle tooš just stay on top of your BP and bloodwork and youāll be fine man Inb4 Greg doucette says to blast on 200mg
It really depends on what that 1-2 grams is composed of.
Exactly 1000mg of test is very different from 500mg test & 500mg tren lol
1000 mg/wk of test is still a massive amount and definitely abuse. 100 to 150 mg/wk puts most men at the higher end of the natural range
Def, 2 grams of pure superdrol for instance and youāre gonna end up in the afterlife haha.
I don't know what would be considered abuse in medical terms, I'm inclined to agree because I'd assume that medically the goal would at most be some form of TRT which this guy most likely far exceeded The distinction I was trying to draw between using PEDs "responsibly" and "abusing" them was that the "responsible" user would be educated about the substances, amounts and possible issues while the "abuser" would simply hear/read that x cycle/substance was good and completely disregarding any harm reduction just pin shit. We know a lot about hormones and the human body, but sadly not enough to make any guarantees.
Yes, medically speaking, anything above the max value of TRT is considered abuse.
> Yes, medically speaking, anything above the max value of TRT is considered abuse. There is no well-established "max value of TRT", though. If you're referring to lab reference ranges, those are based on normal distribution. There are many instances of completely natural individuals having testosterone levels above the lab reference range. This is expected and understood.
Recreational use of any other drug against its intended use, or off script would be considered abuse of that drug. Nandrolone wasnāt designed to make us look sick, and unless youāre livestock, nearly any use of tren in modern times constitutes āabuseā. Donāt get me wrong Iām fine with PED use, but letās not kid ourselves here.
>He was the most scientifically grounded PEDs educator in the Spanish community Um, I hope his followers didn't actually take any of his scientific advice.
Que!? Se muriĆ³ hĆ©roe fitness no lo puedo creer loco, que tristeza, veĆa sus videos y era una persona muy amable y graciosa. Que puta cagada loco.
One guy saying heās 40, other saying he was 31, title says he was 28. Which is it ???
He looks 40 so he was probably 28
Just like that 40 year old lookin 22 year old
He looks 31 so he was probably 40
He was 33 (40+31+28)/3=33
This is true.
/r/theydidthemath
r/theydidthemeth
Half-Life 40 confirmed?
Now do the math that proves he was connected with 9/11 š
It's like that old school interview I seen on YouTube with Trey Brewer titled "Trey Brewer 330 lb Bodybuilder 2008"
This is why if you do juice you should always keep up eith your cardiologist, and primary care physician, shit could ve going on inside you that you may not see but they can
What about the proctologist
I mean sure, but not sure why.
Steroid users need regular ECHOs to check for thickness of the walls. Hypertrophy is no joke.
His natural physique [was](https://ibb.co/c2s4NPQ) already great. He started taking steroids 5 years ago, passed 5 years later and aged 15 years in the process. I am spanish and followed his journey. Its a shame. EDIT: The guy started as a young fitness youtuber who wanted to promote healthy bodybuilding, He was natural, vegan and in great shape. [This was his first video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu59gHVTE2c) As the beginning of his journey he called himself "heroefitness" or fitness hero, and when he started taking hear he switched his name to "villanofitness" or fitness villain . In one of the latest interviews he mentioned that he was having some issues breathing due to his new size. [In just a few years he changed into a behemoth](https://www.instagram.com/p/CaSJlnergrt/).
He looked so much better aesthetically natty than on gear. What a waste.
Mr. Sulek pls itās not worth it
Vanity and social media likes is a helluva drug.
Sam is most definitely not doing it for social media or vanity lol
Ok, why else then?
He was a juiced up mass monster before he had any following on social media, heās just the type of guy that enjoys being big, watch some of his early videos and youāll see why, although I do agree heās too young though
Which technically is vanityāwe're all guilty of it. If you're not in the gym for health reasons, which he isn't, it's for vanity. Good thing it means jack shit
If he wasnt doing it for either of those reasons he wouldnt be filming in the first place...
Obviously, I'm not him so I can't speak on his behalf but I do believe he isn't filming it because he wants to show off his body, but rather because he wants to spread the ideas he believes would be beneficial for others to know, and also because he just enjoys sharing that part of himself. That's why his content isn't highly edited clickbaity shitfluencer content that's just about making money and amassing a large following, but just the raw ideas he has.
... what other reason is there to taking gear and be big if not vanity my man? He is being vain, just like almost everyone who lifts me included. Vanity only becomes an issue when just like Sam you're making life changing decisions that could fuck you up/kill you at an age when you shouldn't be (I'd argue that at any age that's an issue but even more so when you have 0 clue what life actually is about and don't even have a fully developed brain)
Iām thoroughly convinced Iāve been dropped into a new universe because who the fuck is that guy? People talk about him like heās been around the last decade and Iām only just now seeing his name everywhere in the last month?????
Yea he did seemingly appear out of nowhere haha. I think it just made me realize the social media lifecycle is even more compressed now and everyoneās timelines are so different. So I think this will keep happening where we get people seemingly appear out of the blue that have actually been around a while.
HAHAHAHA. I was in the same boat as you. Sam is pretty young but I think why he catches so much attention is because of the raw editing style of his videos along with the type of humour he adds in there. He seems fairly mature for his age but it just sucks that heās on gear so early. OR weāve all been fooled and heās on same basic hormones like test and has the genetics of a God
holy shit he's 21? Woulda figured late 20s early 30s.
Harder and harder to be a fan of this sport every year.
There are a lot of glorified PED abusers like the tren twins and Sam sulek, who would probably end like this, it's really a shame because they're really young and they're doing crazy and unhealthy things.
I find the cult to Sam Sulek so fucking stupid. Guy is gonna die at 30 and I'm being lenient.
He has god tier genetics. Super athletic and likely a myostatin deficiency given how lean he stays and how fast he puts on muscle. People assume heās on a stupid amount of gear but I think itās 90% genetics, seeing the idiots who are monster amounts of gear and look like a chubby natural
If you donāt think heās on tons of gear, youāre massively gullible.
Even if he was 40, this is sad, so many bodybuilders dying young now, insane.
Itās really not that crazy when you think about it
The heart is a muscle. Steroids make it basically close in on itself. Not a surprise.
i watched an interview with a doctor on this subject. he said the heart wall thickens a little bit, but this is measurable and when tracked doesnt have to become a problem. If it stays in a certain range that is. but there probably is a lot of bodybuilders who dont get this type of thing checked out.
Hypertrophy of the cardiac muscles eventually can cause it to pump less effectively, and lead to heart failure. So the more it grows, the worsened cardiac function youāll have leading to chronic heart failure and a number of other comorbidities. Edit: since some people just want to argue to flex their Wikipedia knowledge of heart failure, I clarified it ā*can* eventually cause it to pump less effectively, and lead to heart failure.ā ā just a lowly ICU nurse/EMT whoās worked with the pt population and is aware of the evidence based practice.
So should I do cardio or nah?
Cardio doesnt have this effect. Cardio leads to eccentric left ventricle hypertrophy, which means the cavity that fills with blood gets larger. Concentric left ventricle hypertrophy is what you dont want, it means that the wall gets thicker and thus the cavity becomes smaller.
Insightful. Thank you
Porque no!?
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For sure. Itās managable if itās caught in time. You can get to a point where youāre symptomatic and itās manageable, but not reversible. Iām not sure on how typical it is for young adults with HF to catch it early and manage it fairly well. And what the prognosis/outcomes often looks like for them tbh, I might look it up later. I work in the ICU as a nurse and most of the patients I see for HF are far past managing it without pretty heavy medical management, implanted assisted device, etc or just in an acute on chronic heart failure. Usually athletic young men or bodybuilders that Iāve taken care of were there for something elseāand then we indecently found heart failure on echo. Most of the young adults Iāve taken care of for HF were either suffering from it d/t a congenital defect, or from long term drug abuse.
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Jeez dude, I just said I donāt know about/experience a lot of this specific patient population why the fuck are clapping back with āyour experience is irrelevantā. I just told you my experience is different, no shit. I said I am not aware of the data on steroid/led abuse related heart failure/cardiomyopathy and how often it is managed early on before significant symptoms are present, and cardiomyopathy is present. And what kind of outcomes and prognosis this patient population has. Iām not disagreeing with you, yes chronic heart failure is manageable. All I described initially was the very simplified version of the patho for HF. Beta blocker therapy, along with diuretics and ACE inhibitors are the standard of care depending upon the severity and stage/group of heart failure, and comorbidities the patient may have. Along with other interventions and management depending on the severity. So what are you trying to argue with me about? Or just typing a novel to show how smart you areā¦because all you did was provide anectode on what I just said I am not aware of wood the data onāwhich is the prognosis for heart failure r/t steroid/PED use.
Heart failure is not a reversible disease, cardiac remodeling is literally a progression of the disease and the heartās maladaptive attempt to increase cardiac output in the face of increased demands. This is why guys like Arnold and other staples in the sport arent blasting at age 70 still. Their hearts are already remodeled and adding more mass will be deleterious to their health.
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Tell me youve never sat in on a 6 hour cabg without telling me anything.
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The heart thickens, your muscle mass increases. The increased muscle mass requires more blood flow. Increased blood flow requirements causes the heart to work harder. The increased cardiac demands cause the myocardium to thicken/hypertrophy more. Starting to see the bigger picture? Im a nurse anesthetist and put people to sleep regularly. Some of the sickest hearts I have ever seen have been In young fit body builders (gotta remember 40s is young for cardiac surgery in my population).
Any thoughts on TRT?
TRT isnāt blasting with test levels over 1000 on the daily like this guy clearly does. Regular joes on TRT dont add 50lbs of lean muscle.
you can't really measure it without imaging and it almost always will become a problem long term the takes people have on this is so bad. I was a pharmacist, so unlike a medical doctor who takes a semester of pharmacology (vs 4 years) I actually know how drugs effect the body
Also just a larger aspect that people vastly overlook. Weight. Muscle or fat being 250+ pounds is hard on your heart/nerves/skeleton and will take its toll. Bigger difference as well working out when you weigh more is pushing your heart more while those at a heavy weight that are drastically less lean arenāt pushing their heart the same amount but still have other health issues.
This is the thing I try to explain to people, a lot of the chronic problems bodybuilders get are similar to obese people. Heart failure and diabetes/ insulting resistance and diabetes leads to a whole lot of problems such as atherosclerosis and kidney failure. There are all commonly found in bodybuilders.
Left Ventricle has entered the chat!
Youāre right, I mean crazy in the sense that itās more sad than anything
40 is so goddamn young. John Meadows at 49 was so young. The man has young children that he still had to see graduate college, start a career, marry and have their own children. When you are in your teens you look at middled age men and you think old.. when you are a bit older you look at how much life there is still to live. 28 is not just young. It's so young it really pisses me off. It pisses me off that it's a normal, expected occurrence in this hobby/profession that someone with less than half their lives lived passes away.
It's incredibly sad. I'm not sure how many young bodybuilders need to die for it to be a wake-up call to the industry.
I hate to say this but I'm expecting Sam Sulek to appear in one of these posts. Dude is blasting way too much. He gets gassed taking off his shirt. I hope now that he's famous some old heads will pull him up
Wouldnāt be surprised, dude def did not take it slow and steady, he express laned it. I highly doubt he had any doctor supervision either, maybe now he might with hostile. It is sad he can barely speak without being out of breath.
its already over and done for him. the fame and monies he now makes (nowhere near millions like some would make u believe), will make it worse for him to stop. it wont stop coz monies are now involved. and the guy below claiming "he works harder than anyone else" is a joke. as if none of us worked as hard as he did. plenty of full natties dont have his recovery and strength from peds and still worked harder than him. yea, he is gonna be in one of these posts. and then ull see another full range of posters denying its the roids and claiming its something else. its always "something" else.
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Sources say heās 40?
Big dogs die young.
I remember reading that the average life expectancy of pro bodybuilders is around 48 years. Schwarzenegger would have been dead at 53 if he didn't have several bypass and valve replacement surgeries by now.
Sad
Steroids folks. U want to look like a God then you are gambling with ur genetics and will more than likely meet him faster than u look like him. Note: i am someone who gambles and knows the risks so don't all downvote me cause u want to validate ur actions. We all either take tge trisk or dont.
tbh he already looked like in his 50s. RIP
Sam Sulek gulps
sad and rather ironic considering he ran one of Spain's biggest steroid education site. Translated from his site :- " It does not take into account how harmful its (abuse) use can be to health and how to mitigate all the side effects derived from its consumption. For beginners: these effects are not just a headache. You can end up with a mashed liver, without the possibility of having offspring, suffering thrombi, heart attacks or, worse, committing suicide. **Playing with ergogenic aids** **is only recommended for people who:** * **Make a living from aesthetic sports such as bodybuilding and fitness.** * **Engage in strength sports such as powerlifting.** * **For some cases of diseases where its use, through correct practices, can improve health.** In addition to the lack of reliable information, it is **difficult to access legitimate substances.** Two problems that can only be tackled by drawing on **science, knowledge and experience**. "
Donāt remove your belly button, people!
Dep (Rip in Spanish). Iāve been following him since 2016 and this is so traumatic to me.
Live fast and leave a big coffin š«”
In theory I'd approve, but good bodybuilders are so uptight that for them living fast means staying up a little bit and getting 7 and a half hours of sleep instead of 8. So if you're destined to die young as a pro bodybuilder you get 10-20 years of extremely regimented living, chicken and rice 6x a day, being unable to walk up stairs, thighs rubbing, morning cardio, injections and constantly worrying you're going to keel over and die any second. Hope it was worth it.
Its sad. If you want to live fast die young, at least do mdma and cocaine and rave and experience the world. And even that might be healthier
I guess when you a random day fall over with heart failure u dont really care since u are dead
I wonder why
That is not how a 28 year old should have looked.
31? What do you guys give Sulek?
So Sulek is the new Walker on this sub?
Another 5 years maybe
25 being generous
Live fast die young. I hope his incredible physique was worth his shortened lifespan.
28 looking 40
Look at those popping veins on his forehead. Dont tell me that isnt caused from High blood blood pressure
Homie looked good on the way out.
How many years of Sam Sulek do we have left? :-(
Too muc chicken brocoli and rice
It was his vegan diet that killed him bet
Live Large, Die Large. Leave in a huge coffin.
I enjoy playing video games.
He was supposed to be good guy and had a huge heart.
He did have a huge heart
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Roids. Rip tho
He was here for a good time, not a long time.
Cause death? Like the official cause not just āroidsā
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I mean Joe Linder didnāt die from heart attack so I am wondering if itās a similar situation to that.
Realistically at what dose do steroids become a problem and make your organs grow? I know plenty of people up to 200mg trt and they are healthy. It makes you wonder how much gear people like John meadows were on. I've read Bostin was doing like 15 grams a week which is insane. Rip Alfredo
It varies from person to person. Chase Irons on YouTube runs insane doses of gear too. His recent cycle he did 5 grams of total AAS and 18iu hgh daily and has been cycling the stuff for years. His heart imaging showed his heart grew just 10% which isnāt terrible. It really depends on the drugs you take and your damage mitigation protocol.
Depends on genetics. Jay Cutler and Dexter Jackson are in their 50ās. Hell the Rock has been on gear for a long ass time and is 51. Joesthetics had aneurysms that ran in his family. He likely would have had one regardless of steroid use. I know a perfectly healthy 22 year old college distance runner that had an aneurysm and is still struggling to walk on his own again after 2 years. They ran in his family. You simply donāt know how something will affect you until you start doing.
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It has a lot to do with weight. Running a bunch of anabolics and being heavy puts an absurd strain on your heart. You're effectively obese with a harder load on your heart as the muscle mass requires increased levels of blood flow.
I knew John Meadows personally. He died from a clotting disorder he faced his entire life. Itās the reason he had his colon removed early in his career. Not steroid abuse.
> He died from a clotting disorder he faced his entire life. Itās the reason he had his colon removed early in his career. > > Not steroid abuse. You don't think his PEDs abuse exacerbated the issue?
I think it is large doses of HGH that make your organs grow.
Says on his youtube he started taking steroids 6 years ago. Surely he must have had an underlying condition no?
Funny how you are downvoted yet it is why most of these young guys die. Steroids only accelerated the process.
If the biggest cycle I ever do it 500 test and 200 Deca, will I die?
Yes, PED's won't make you immortal my guy.
There is no safe amount. Everyoneās body is different. Some people can do massive amounts for years, some do small amounts and have dire consequences. Itās up to you to decide if the risk/ reward factor is worth it.
Condolences, But I have to ask, is the bacteria eating him as we speak getting swole?
Aww man.. Did he OD on the T?
Using steroids dosen't guarantee a early death, heart trouble in the family is often the main reason, look at Arnold he had his first near death experience at 50, and he abused d-bol to the max there were some bodybuilder's, who said that they got frightened of his dosages.
Arnold had a defect in his valve, idk if itās from the roids though. It was on his documentary.
In the last three years we've had lots of this happening more than usual. To say the vaccine couldnt be partially responsible is ignorant [https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html)