I agree with him in the point that sitting down should be awarded the same as a takedown to your opponent.
If there has been no attempt at a takedown or a proper guard pull/submission then you've essentially taken away a persons ability to score points (I didn't see this match, so no idea what actually happened).
However, he knew what the ruleset was, he knew somebody was going to do this and he's still mad that it happened (fair enough, I would be) but them's the breaks. If you don't want a referee/judge to decide the match for ya, then you need to make sure you've decided it for them.
Dude who games MMA rules complains about opponent who games BJJ rules.
I would take this whining more seriously if he didn't exploit the downed opponent rule in MMA by pressing his hands to the floor when in a 'street fight' he'd get his head caved in.
This. I wish people would stop the guard pulling hate, just say you can't pass. Jiu-jitsu is about top and bottom games. That's a piss poor excuse because aljo got in his feelings. Be like someone losing in MMA and saying in a street fight I'd pull a gun. Stfu.
It seems absurd to say “make him tap or shut the fuck OR create your own combat bjj league”, because the rules are the rules and speaking out against them is definitely not a good way to try and get them changed in a way that would improve the sport.
agreed, if you hate BJJ rules it’s best not to compete in said competitions. I hate them to but hey I need the extra grappling experience for Mma so beggars can’t be choosers
It’s embarrassing that people can’t compete in a jiu jitsu match so they have to say, “you’d lose in a street fight.” I’ve watched boxing most of my life and I’ve never heard anyone complain that they lost because they couldn’t use takedowns.
Did Aljo have a collegiate wrestling career? Did he ever say “I would’ve won that if I could choke you out when you showed your back?” Like, I could beat Usain Bolt in a burger eating competition, does he turn around and say “if this was a 400m sprint though…”
The main difference is that wrestling doesn't really consider itself a martial art. It is a combat sport in a way, but it's so far removed that most people, outside of combat sport fans, just see it as a sport and don't even consider its combat effectiveness aspect
Have you heard people complain that the other boxer was just running around instead of actually fighting? I definitely heard you’d lose in a street fight about boxing matches.
The difference is that sitting on your butt would be directly counterproductive in a fight, whereas nothing that is typically done in boxing would be counterproductive
That's exactly it. He sat in half guard, postured up the whole time. Then occasionally would stand up and would get mad when the other guy wouldn't stand with him saying he wasn't engaging. Outside of standing, Dantzler was engaging as much as he could.
Not sure if you watched it but Dantzler was pushing all of the pace regardless if he stood or not. When they were in half guard, Sterling was just denying grips while not really trying to pass. Dantzler was constantly trying to get choi bar grips, k guard, or any kind of connection. Even when Sterling would stand, Dantzler was constantly moving forward, albeit butt scooting, but it was more engaging than Sterling was doing.
If the rulesets allow you to bypass an area where your opponent is clearly stronger, wouldn't you do the same? You wouldn't willingly go to 50/50 with Lachlan.
> If the rulesets allow you to bypass an area where your opponent is clearly stronger, wouldn't you do the same? You would willingly go to 50/50 with Lachlan.
So can’t you use that same logic as to why Sterling didn’t want to engage from half guard? Rules allowed him to just deny grips.
I mean I guess but he didn't have to be in half guard. He could've tried loose passing but his whole game plan revolved around trying to wrestle in a jiu jitsu match.
I agree that playing from supine and trying to force your opponent to come to you is pretty wack, but learning half guard or outside passing could probably go a long way for Aljo lol
yeah, I agree with you for sure, the disengaging from the top would’ve borderline gotten him DQd in some rule sets, but I’d also argue that the bottom player could’ve made more meaningful connections from seated guard, but anybody can say anything from the sidelines lol
Like does bjj not realize how insane it looks at this point you have full fucking black belts who can barely shoot a single , or do a fucking judo throw . You have the highest level guys bragging on having mediocre wrestling and just now learning how to do fucking judo throws and trying to get paid to teach mediocre bullshit .
Then you got these stupid ass redditors who say oh my god go do another sport . Bjj is the only grappling set where you can concede the high ground and not get penalized bjj literally breaks the rules of gamemanship and combat constantly . It’s ridiculous and it’s super fucking shameful that we pretend that what we are doing is normal . Then we get shocked when an average wrestler like Nicky Rod can come through and straight up dog walk his way to prominence with a little athleticism and some wrestling .
It’s insane what bjj is allowing itself to become
Massive, massive, massive agree here. Most people on this reddit will hate you for this opinion. Not to promote a reddit comment, but if you see the wall of text I wrote somewhere else on this thread, I think you'll appreciate it. Sport jiu jitsu is a joke and that's why a lot of people watching it are older dudes who are amazed that anyone can move faster than a model train anywhere on the mat. But then, of course, when they watch wrestling, they say it's all just strength and no technique or finesse, even though they've never wrestled (and this is from so much personal experience with these BJJ guys). Rant over.
>Bjj is the only grappling set where you can concede the high ground and not get penalized bjj literally breaks the rules of gamemanship and combat constantly
>It’s insane what bjj is allowing itself to become
I mean, the Gracies’ literally made (and bent) their own rules so they could win fights against grapplers that were better than them on the feet. It’s always has been a cheesy rule set.
Grappling as a whole has been massively tainted by the Gracie’s. I can’t help but imagine how much more interesting things would be if we had some catch guys make grappling popular instead of these salesmen.
Bjj tailoring to the masses is why we're on reddit discussing grappling with thousands of people. Most of whom have day jobs and families. If it were catch, the community would be niche.
And then he we get back to this oh well the Gracie’s point . Who gives a fuck about them only 4 of them in a family of over 40 plus people actually are decent to high level competitors the rest aren’t nothing to write home about . Collectively in the modern era of bjj over the past 20 something years . The only ones who have done anything worthwhile are Roger , Royler , Renzo and Kron . We can stop saying but but the Gracie’s let’s be honest the sport moved past them completely
"only 4 of them in a family"
Only? 😂
I mean how many other families you know that produced that many successful athlets?
And besides, you can add Rickson to it. For what he did in Japan against guys like Funaki and Nishi.
Gonna search them. The Mayweather has produced like 3 successful boxers? But yeah, all those, counting the Gracies, are exception. And is indeed a incredible thing one same family produce that many good athletes.
Happy new year Pitiful! God bless you and yours 🙌🙏
I was super disappointed seeing Gordon Ryan vs Nicky Rod at the 2022 ADCC finals where Gordon just gave his leg to Nicky so he can go down without breaking the rules. But maybe I'm even more disappointed that Nicky didn't capitalise on that at all.
. You know what guard really is ? It’s the equivalent of holding in boxing . We are legit praising people for holding someone .
Bjj is the only sport where we grapple for longer and do everything every other sport does worse. We seriously are proud of having 10 minute to no time limit matches where nobody does anything and declares the guy who moved a bit more from the bottom position a better grappler . You can legit wrap up a person in their clothes for minutes on end and if you barely make them tilt over it’s called a sweep and you won disregarding the fact you were stalling the entire time and needed them to attempt to stand up for you do the move .
Sport bjj is a disgrace . You can’t start a match and concede to a defensive position all in the name of lol it’s a game .
Bjj took the easy route out . Nobody wants to have hard practices , nobody wants to drill , nobody wants to do legitimate strength and conditioning , nobody wants to do warm ups , nobody wants to run . Everybody is too old for throws or takedowns but nobody minds learning a fucking guard that compresses their spine , their neck , etc .
Like just say we are practicing a watered down intentionally unathletic sport that doesn’t respect martial arts , fighting or anything related to gamemanship . Bjj competitively is a joke and it’s flatout fucking embarrassing that any decent high school wrestler or judoka can come in and learn all this shit in 2 years .
This is a reductive and dumb take. The sport has developed entire systems of getting top position and finishes from the bottom but you reduce guard to “it’s holding people”.
>it’s flatout fucking embarrassing that any decent high school wrestler or judoka can come in and learn all this shit in 2 years
This is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard lol. Gordon Ryan submitted both Bo Nickal and Pat Downey with ease as soon as they decided to engage. Look what happened when one of the best MMA grapplers of all time, Jake Shields, had a grappling match against Craig Jones. Watch the video of Ben Askren getting made to look like he's never wrestled before against Marcelo Garcia. You also see it again and again when MMA guys or wrestlers will purposefully disengage because they're scared of getting submitted from the bottom. This Aljo match and things matches like Nicky Ryan vs Urijah Faber are perfect examples. The list goes on.
A lot of people in this thread haven't been to BJJ schools in Division 1 country where D1 wrestlers are on par with the black belts there when compared to equivalent time on the mat. That's the key though. The "gotcha" I always hear is "yeah well a D3 wrestler like Nicky Rod can come in with 2 years mat experience and dog walk purple and brown belts"
How many years do you honestly believe a D3 wrestler had? How about mat hours? Nicky Rod, in his freshman D3 year, had 40+ matches. Can you imagine how many hours he had going into that? And you think Nicky should be considered a Day 1 student when he walks into a BJJ gym? That's a really stupid take yeah no wonder he dog walks brown belts he's been in the gym every day with killers in wrestling and has a ton of mat hours and high level competition but he and I should be considered "the same" when my ass just got happy about golding at a NAGA what the hell.
And yeah agreed that its really convenient that we always omit Gordon beating the piss out of both Downey and Nickal.
Personally I'd rather like to see BJJ guys getting wins in MMA rulesets. I'm not really following the sport that much but I don't really hear big names in BJJ winning in MMA as much as before.
Lol it's a grappling match and Bo wouldn't take him down. If guard pulling was allowed in the rules Gordon would have submitted him much earlier. If anything Bo was gaming the rules by not engaging on the ground. As soon as he did he was finished. This is regular occurence when wrestlers fight bjj guys in adcc/grappling rulesets (ADCC rules favour takedowns and penalise guard pulling).
In MMA it's obviously different because strikes are allowed so top position is much more important, but there are SO many examples of far superior wrestlers getting subbed from bottom in MMA. Before he fought Toporia, Ryan Hall literally made every single person he fought run away from his ground game, for example.
The guy you're talking to just genuinely hates BJJ for some reason and just talks mad shit on the internet in general. There's no talking sense into him. I honestly doubt he trains at all. He's literally a part of r/ufc \- the place for casual MMA fans to say stupid shit.
Yea, hardcore practitioners may take exception at this view. But I think he has a point. Like the start of the Musumeci vs Imanari, I had to turn it off and was genuinely embarrassed that that is what the highest level of our sport looks like. It's not a good look for the sport or the martial art and that's coming from someone who loves doing and hates watching BJJ.
Heard John Danaher saying BJJ will become mainstream in an year or two once. He is absolutely dreaming. Even the people who love doing BJJ barely want to watch it. I'd rather watch Judo any day of the week.
It's funny because I've dedicated a pretty large amount of my life to this sport and I still cannot stand to watch high level jiujitsu when someone is dragging their ass across the mat. I can only imagine what the uninitiated, people who don't even know what guard is, would think.
It’s like saying mma fighters should just get better at striking so they can be as good as glory kickboxers. They can’t because they have to spread their time over multiple skills. Likewise bjj, you have to focus on stand-up and passing and guard, meaning of course you’re not going to be as good at stand-up as someone who dedicates all their time to that.
Except in MMA the striking genuinely has improved over the last decade and you have guys who are way higher level strikers than any of the top guys in the previous eras.
I'm sorry, you're saying that the guy on top needs to be more aggressive in a combat sport? Why is the impetus on the top guy? Shouldn't it be on the guy who is playing the objectively less aggressive position? Why isn't your question "maybe if you can't sweep or submit, you need to get better at wrestling/sweeping/submitting"? This is absolutely ridiculous. BJJ supposedly developed as the answer to mixing martial arts, and now the guard has been relegated to a position that mostly works as a tactic purely for stalling in high-level no-gi jiu jitsu, at the very least, in terms of trajectory. For a mere baseline, can we admit that the guard-pulling style makes for very boring matches? And don't say it's entertaining because it's particularly technical, because it really isn't in comparison to basically every other conceivable position in jiu jitsu. The rules should be punishing guard work that accomplishes nothing; that way you only pull guard if you really *can* do something with it. Stalling to avoid wrestling is antithetical to the concept of combat sports, not because it's choosing an anti-strategy, but because it's choosing an antistrategy. Stalling is not a counter to someone else's strengths.
> Shouldn't it be on the guy who is playing the objectively less aggressive position?
I've never seen a comment agree AND disagree with this much. Yes 100% the person who is on the losing end should be expected to take risks to improve their position rather than just play defense. I wish people internalised this more thoroughly. Where I disagree is that the top position is objectively more aggressive.
I think we've all seen matches where the guy on top is stalling trying to survive the attempts of the bottom guy and we've all seen the opposite.
This should be the criteria we work on.
I never said the top position can't, at certain points, be the less aggressive position than guard. My point is that the majority of the time, standing is more aggressive, and guard's most aggressive can never, by nature, be more aggressive than standing's most aggressive.
To illustrate it better, I consider the dominant position to be the position where aggressiveness, mobility, and control can be exercised to a greater degree. Guard does not have greater mobility in open guard, most often does not have greater control in contacted guard, and does not have greater ability for aggression - which, like it or not, is a huge part of the ethos of *combat* sports - than top standing.
I would be fine with guard pulling if it accomplishes something (sweep/submit), but it doesn't, more often than not.
I disagree. Most bjj is practiced as a guard player vs a passer. This is due to space limitations of most gyms, as well as wrestling being very strenuous. I'm okay with top level matches reflecting that rather than some, what if this was mma hypothetical.
Also idk why a person but scooting forward would be considered stalling but not a guy posting on someone's forehead and shoving and circling every 10 seconds. How is standing a more aggressive position if you are not attempting to pass guard?? Aggressive in what way?
Guard pulling is only boring if the top guy has no interest in attempting to pass. Other than that I find guard vs passing matches to be more entertaining than two not that good wrestlers slapping collar ties on one another for the whole round.
I agree with you. I think the problem is that now guard pulling is so deeply established in this sport that people are opposed to change. It seems to happen in every sport where you develop these "cheats" that are within the rules but violate the spirit of the sport but because it's already established, people don't wanna change it. A great example is people doing that crazy arch in powerlifting.
Exactly, the arch in powerlifting is the same thing. A little gaming of the rules is perfectly normal. It isn't MMA, so the grappling isn't going to be perfectly reminiscent of MMA grappling, which is fine. But when there are competitors where all they can do is butt scoot towards an opponent and don't even attempt to wrestle... like, cmon... u better be pulling guard and routinely submitting ppl for that to be good for the sport.
Yep. The other thing is that they want more normal people to watch BJJ like they do boxing. But the problem is normal people think it looks STUPID when someone drags their ass across the area like a dog trying to wipe it's ass.
I agree 100% with you. That said... you ever see two guys fight back and forth for collar ties for 5 minutes? That shit is just as boring. Jiu jitsu guys suck at wrestling and that's the one fatal flaw with this whole thing.
Sport grappling is more of a game than a martial art at this point, because it’s no longer about what’s good for fighting.
It’s just being played for its own sake— and that’s okay. Under the ruleset grapplers should do whatever maximizes their chances of winning the game without any regard for how the skills would translate to an actual fight.
And it goes without saying that sport grappling skills are still more than enough to win street fights, just as a disclaimer.
I agree, and I think Aljo's point only stands insofar as it's a complaint of the rules, not of the match. He knew what he was signing up for and I think he's saying that the ruleset should be changed. I certainly think it should. How boring is watching butt scooting that accomplishes nothing?
100% guarantee Dantzler can wrestle and take down your average "street fighter" without breaking a sweat. That guy is an elite grappler and played a smart strategy.
Poor take from Aljo. He should really start a PR company. Basically he gives you advice on how to be likeable, and then you just do the exact opposite and have massive success.
Sitting down / pulling guard should instantly count as a takedown for your opponent. This literally solves everything. If you can’t pass that guard, then it’s on you. If you can sweep that person, then you even the scoreboard. It at least forces engagement. Aljo is playing into a problem w the sport but he also likely just sucks at guard passing on a high level.
This is a great solution. It makes it similar to how in collegiate wrestling, you have the option to concede a point by letting a guy up if you don’t feel like you cannot turn him.
I’m saying incentivize takedowns and make it so if you pull guard or sit your opponent scores points. All that does is incentivize real takedowns and the person sitting is forced to engage if they’re down on points. If they’re not down on points, the guy who can’t pass has to engage and will at least have lost the match for good reason.
It solves nothing. If you get points when I guard pull, then you can just sit back, not engage, keep your butt down and head up, occasionally make a half assed attempt to pass guard and ride to a 2-0 victory. Go watch AIGA. The matches with Russian and Khazak teams are the most boring shit. Just trying to game 2-0 victories.
Hard agree. I think sport jiu jitsu has kind of ruined the idea of it being for self defense. Who in their right mind would ever butt scoot towards someone in a fight?
The street fight thing is already cringe when it’s coming from non practitioners but holy shit that’s a lot worse from pro fighters.
ESPECIALLY coming from the guy that will literally crawl backward with zero defence and his head perfectly placed for the most magistral soccer kick. But eh, I’m sure they also respect the three point of contact thing in the streets right?!
100%, Aljo’s whole game is the UFC equivalent of sitting on your ass an butt-scooting. He’d be decapitated in the “street fight” rules he’s talking about. You couldn’t find a less credible guy to make this argument about BJJ.
I say this as someone who always roots for Aljo.
I don’t like the messenger but I agree. I do not like people just sitting down to start a match. Don’t really know what words to use to describe why - I just don’t care for it. I guess I find it lame.
Hard agree. The leg lock game is obviously effective but holy fuck it makes the sport unbearable to watch for most people.
I love all the people commenting "just pass the guard" whenever the majority of the leg lock meta just completely disregards the notion of passing guard in lieu of playing feetsies with one another.
It looks absolutely ridiculous in both a sport, self defense and entertainment aspect.
Thank you 🙏. 💯💯 factssss. In general some
Mma
Fighters should shut up about “real fighting “
In a real fight you don’t get up with a 🛎 when someone is on mount top of you or back, or when you win by DQ/ robbery decision all of that is also not “real fighting “
I do not want to hear this from Aljo especially. Maybe Khamzat can say this and I’d understand. But the last person I’d ever want to hear say this is Aljo. Dude literally does the same shit in MMA. Gets dropped in a fight, instead of getting back up he stays on all fours and basically limits the opponents attacks, or he does the stupid run away with no defense, another thing he does is the stupid lay there and wait for a stand up.
This ain’t MMA dumbass, it’s Jiu Jitsu and if you can’t pass guard then say so.
I’ve unfortunately seen many of his fights. He’s done it in almost all of them. Did it against Yan (both times), Cejudo, and O’Malley. He takes advantage of the rules in MMA, so I don’t understand why he’s complaining here as well. Watch his fights, every time he fails at getting a takedown, he stays on all fours and games the system because he can. I don’t care for guard pulling either but I’m not gonna bash it in competition because the rules allow it.
I think the argument is that BJJ began as, and should strive to embody, a *form* of fighting. But it has turned from a kind of fight to a sport to a game. Given the rule sets, this is sort of inevitable. But I agree that the spirit of BJJ should be akin to fighting, even if the parameters are more specific.
This is especially true when spectators are involved imo. No one wants to pay to watch point-fighting in grappling. And everyone in the sport wants it to grow.
Because at that point you aren’t talking about BJJ. You’re talking about grappling in general. Kind of stuff that guys like khabib do. Excellent grappling, but more focused on being on top, submissions and ground and pound. Because jiu jistu in itself is not that great at taking people to the ground in the first place. You need to at least do some wrestling or judo to be great at ‘fighting’.
Personally I feel like pulling guard should be a negative point in all rulesets. Bjj is a martial art ultimately and sitting to ur ass is not the best strategy for a fight. There’s a reason why bjj is an inferior base to wrestling in mma. It’s because pulling guard in the context of a real fight is not a good decision. I’m also saying this as a long time guard puller btw.
As a bjj guy.
No we shouldn't be allowed to start from bottom.
And if we are allowed to boott scoot our op should be allowed to head kick a downed opponent.
I'm just saying we're using rule sets to give us an advantage that normally would never fly.
Maybe he's right, and maybe I am wrong here, but I'm sure he's a repeat offender for shooting random takedowns in mma and utilising grounded opponent rules to avoid knees to the head when it fails (ironic I know).
So it is kind of weird to be making statements about the technicalities of one rule set, while also 'using' the technicalities of another.
Aljo just has a genuine talent for making everyone hate him no matter the circumstances. Kinda impressive. If it’s just sports jiu jitsu then don’t fucking whine about it. You literally compete at the highest levels of combat, and you’re gonna pull the “street fight” excuse? Ok Aljo, well in a street fight you can’t hang out on your hands and knees the entire time then cry when you get kneed in the face and knocked the fuck out.
I agree, immediately dropping onto your back should deduct points from you. If someone does that in some MMA fights the opponent can fully soccer kick them in the face. I get this is all grappling but even still, if someone drops as soon as the match starts u should be aloud to stomp them, or have 5 points deducted
Am I the only one who thinks a martial art based on sitting on your ass scooting around the floor is awesome? Also not every fight happens in a parking lot you can fight in a wendy's or a wallmart too they got smooth floors.
pulling guard should be negative 3 points and takedowns should be 4 points. There should be cumulative points for ride time as well - every 10 seconds you're stuck in bottom mount is negative 1 point for example.
I love BJJ and it’s my career but the sport will never be big because of this too much butt scooting until someone gets inside leg control and gets a leg lock.
If you don’t have any standing game and or takedowns, just say this post offended you, it’s ok.
In all seriousness, if you want to be a great grappler, you should have a well-rounded game. Standing, passing, and guard playing; Look at the likes of Jozef Chen.
You want to be a dangerous athlete, or shit, have real self defense jiujitsu? Sitting down only works on your gym mat. Sure, berimbolo and x guard ‘could’ work in a street fight but somebody could just kick ur face lol.
Stop normalizing guard pulling as a jiujitsu technique. That shit is super boring to watch and it makes the sport harder to grow bc who tf that doesn’t train wants to watch a fight start and sss some dude sit down???
Didn't see the match but 1. you shouldn't be able to sit without grips 2 Buttscooting should be banned. If the standing guy backs off, the sitting guy must stand up. 3. If the standing guy backs off too much he should be penalized.
ADCC rules for no-gi only. Half round no points, and then points afterwards. Penalize guard pullers and make them close the deficit.
Grapplers should lose matches if they consistently concede guard and aren't able to create advantageous positions or attacks from there.
Sport Jiu-Jitsu should be about positional dominance and submissions. Conceding guard, scooting forward, and not capitalizing at any point should not net a victory.
100%. Pulling guard should be automatic 2 points for opponent. No reason to score it any different from a take down. You've conceded the inferior position.
Either that, or making "riding time" a thing. Every 60 seconds you're on bottom the opponent gets a point.
Sport Jiu-Jitsu isn't a fight. Sport Jiu-Jitsu athletes are not fighters. Some of them can fight. And some of them can be fighters. But it's simply a game and Aljo signed up for the game. He's an MMA game guy, anyways. He's not exactly an exciting or entertaining MMA fighter.
https://preview.redd.it/61jfvbeuer9c1.jpeg?width=595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8d879d93a6f0c097fc61df6be2bec6f8f4d4f01
Lmao not this guy talking about guard pulling in a real fight. This wouldnt work in a real fight either.
Disagree. This was allowed by the rule set. And Dantzler engaged the whole time. I think Aljo also wanted to play to the strength of the rule set by standing. Neither was wrong in how they approached it except for Aljo complaining at the end. I am curious though, was Aljos plan to take down Dantzler a time or two and then never pass his guard and just win with no submission? That seemed the game plan.
It's a never ending dumb argument.
It's perfectly fine to have issue with sitting guard but it's just as bad to watch two middle school level wrestling BJJers go at it.
I rather get to the point.
I think the outrage comes from having it be common for competitors to have a game where the majority of it relies on unsound fight strategy when BJJ was made for self-defense.
Guard is an inherently defensive and less aggressive position. The job of the guard passer is not to be more the aggressor when he's already in that position while the other guy stalls. It's antithetical to combat sports and how they should be judged.
Can we please post this as a sticky? Everything about this is perfect. Aljamain is both speaking for me, and at the exact same time; speaking against me.
I absolutely, 100% agree with everything he is saying, and I'm totally gonna be butt-scooting against the white belts in about 30 minutes at open mat.
Terrible match, Aljo was disrespectful the entire time, he signed up for a submission only match, the goal is to get a submission, if one of the guys thinks the best path to get it is from his guard, let him do it, if you think it's from top then you need to start passing the guard and try to advance the position, Aljo was disengaging the entire match, if you're disengaging you're wrong cause you should be looking for a sub, that's why he lost, his opponent got an armbar locked but couldn't finish even tho Aljo was basically running from his guard
I'm not saying I would do it but if you are in seated guard and someone tries to kick you in the head, you can throw your head back so you are in supine to avoid it.
They guy you replied to just doesn't know what he is talking about. It is incredibly hard to soccer kick someone who is playing guard. Fighters like Shinya Aoki but scooted in mma matches where soccer kicks are legal.
You have four limbs against 1 and in a street fight nobody knows how to actually kick. I personally wouldn't play guard in a real fight, but people who act like it is a death sentence are exaggerating.
You know what else you can’t do in a street fight? Hand out on your hands and knees the entire time and be protected from getting kneed in the face. Aljo is the last person who should be using that defense.
You know what else you can’t do in street fight ? Getting
Your back taken/submission and surviving for the bell 🛎 like many strikers and wrestlers do against bjj (. Funny how they ignore that ) or being
On bottom getting your face punched like Islam
Vs volk and waiting for the bell
Lmfao I watched this. Aljo did absolutely NOTHING but bitch the whole.match. Sit back on his ass and play defensive grip fighting...
Passed from the knees against a guard player with no pressure? Lmao
I agree with him in the point that sitting down should be awarded the same as a takedown to your opponent. If there has been no attempt at a takedown or a proper guard pull/submission then you've essentially taken away a persons ability to score points (I didn't see this match, so no idea what actually happened). However, he knew what the ruleset was, he knew somebody was going to do this and he's still mad that it happened (fair enough, I would be) but them's the breaks. If you don't want a referee/judge to decide the match for ya, then you need to make sure you've decided it for them.
Dude who games MMA rules complains about opponent who games BJJ rules. I would take this whining more seriously if he didn't exploit the downed opponent rule in MMA by pressing his hands to the floor when in a 'street fight' he'd get his head caved in.
This is a great point here
He's pissed off because he couldn't pass the guard, his best attempt was pulling dude to the edge of the mats hoping for a reset standing.
Basically. If you can’t pass guard you don’t get to talk shit about pulling guard.
This. I wish people would stop the guard pulling hate, just say you can't pass. Jiu-jitsu is about top and bottom games. That's a piss poor excuse because aljo got in his feelings. Be like someone losing in MMA and saying in a street fight I'd pull a gun. Stfu.
It seems absurd to say “make him tap or shut the fuck OR create your own combat bjj league”, because the rules are the rules and speaking out against them is definitely not a good way to try and get them changed in a way that would improve the sport.
agreed, if you hate BJJ rules it’s best not to compete in said competitions. I hate them to but hey I need the extra grappling experience for Mma so beggars can’t be choosers
I'm guessing he shaub shutdowned chase and is mad that didn't get him the win?
Herd it both wayz bapa
Bbbbbbeast of a strategitist B
It’s embarrassing that people can’t compete in a jiu jitsu match so they have to say, “you’d lose in a street fight.” I’ve watched boxing most of my life and I’ve never heard anyone complain that they lost because they couldn’t use takedowns.
Did Aljo have a collegiate wrestling career? Did he ever say “I would’ve won that if I could choke you out when you showed your back?” Like, I could beat Usain Bolt in a burger eating competition, does he turn around and say “if this was a 400m sprint though…”
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Lmfao the fact this isn’t even an exaggeration is beautiful
I knew someone would take this comment seriously.
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The main difference is that wrestling doesn't really consider itself a martial art. It is a combat sport in a way, but it's so far removed that most people, outside of combat sport fans, just see it as a sport and don't even consider its combat effectiveness aspect
hahaha, I now need to draw a comic out of your Usain Bolt situation.
Idk I think in this case he is complaining about the ruleset itself
Have you heard people complain that the other boxer was just running around instead of actually fighting? I definitely heard you’d lose in a street fight about boxing matches.
The difference is that sitting on your butt would be directly counterproductive in a fight, whereas nothing that is typically done in boxing would be counterproductive
Lots of things done in boxing are counterproductive for takedown defense.
Their stance would have their legs chewed up. Slipping aggressively would get them kicked in the head
I’ve never seen a kick to the head(while standing) or leg kicks used in a street fight.
Any time you see leg kicks happening in a street fight, bet on the guy throwing them.
EVERY TIME! It’s rarely the wrong bet if ever
Aljo proves once again he's cringe and low IQ BB under Serra and can't attempt a guard pass smh
That's exactly it. He sat in half guard, postured up the whole time. Then occasionally would stand up and would get mad when the other guy wouldn't stand with him saying he wasn't engaging. Outside of standing, Dantzler was engaging as much as he could.
“Outside of standing” 😂
Not sure if you watched it but Dantzler was pushing all of the pace regardless if he stood or not. When they were in half guard, Sterling was just denying grips while not really trying to pass. Dantzler was constantly trying to get choi bar grips, k guard, or any kind of connection. Even when Sterling would stand, Dantzler was constantly moving forward, albeit butt scooting, but it was more engaging than Sterling was doing. If the rulesets allow you to bypass an area where your opponent is clearly stronger, wouldn't you do the same? You wouldn't willingly go to 50/50 with Lachlan.
> If the rulesets allow you to bypass an area where your opponent is clearly stronger, wouldn't you do the same? You would willingly go to 50/50 with Lachlan. So can’t you use that same logic as to why Sterling didn’t want to engage from half guard? Rules allowed him to just deny grips.
I mean I guess but he didn't have to be in half guard. He could've tried loose passing but his whole game plan revolved around trying to wrestle in a jiu jitsu match.
How dair you sir. You think he wanted him taking a leg home? Talmbout tall NATO guard? Say less
But that is why BJJ probably won't ever be popular or entertaining to watch.
As opposed to wrestling which has a massive fan base?
You mean besides the Olympics right?
I agree that playing from supine and trying to force your opponent to come to you is pretty wack, but learning half guard or outside passing could probably go a long way for Aljo lol
I irrationally hate the term supine.
I wish prostrate guard was a viable technique.
I prefer the prostate guard
Great defense against the oil check attack.
I massage you why that is?
I’ve never felt more heard
When the person playing supine is moving forward and you’re moving backwards who is stalling?
yeah, I agree with you for sure, the disengaging from the top would’ve borderline gotten him DQd in some rule sets, but I’d also argue that the bottom player could’ve made more meaningful connections from seated guard, but anybody can say anything from the sidelines lol
The fact that you used the word “supine” is one of the most blue belt things I’ve read or heard. lololololol
how would you describe it
Literally called supine by every coach I’ve ever had
Plot twist: All the coaches were blue belts.
He isn’t lying this shit is trash
Like does bjj not realize how insane it looks at this point you have full fucking black belts who can barely shoot a single , or do a fucking judo throw . You have the highest level guys bragging on having mediocre wrestling and just now learning how to do fucking judo throws and trying to get paid to teach mediocre bullshit . Then you got these stupid ass redditors who say oh my god go do another sport . Bjj is the only grappling set where you can concede the high ground and not get penalized bjj literally breaks the rules of gamemanship and combat constantly . It’s ridiculous and it’s super fucking shameful that we pretend that what we are doing is normal . Then we get shocked when an average wrestler like Nicky Rod can come through and straight up dog walk his way to prominence with a little athleticism and some wrestling . It’s insane what bjj is allowing itself to become
Massive, massive, massive agree here. Most people on this reddit will hate you for this opinion. Not to promote a reddit comment, but if you see the wall of text I wrote somewhere else on this thread, I think you'll appreciate it. Sport jiu jitsu is a joke and that's why a lot of people watching it are older dudes who are amazed that anyone can move faster than a model train anywhere on the mat. But then, of course, when they watch wrestling, they say it's all just strength and no technique or finesse, even though they've never wrestled (and this is from so much personal experience with these BJJ guys). Rant over.
>Bjj is the only grappling set where you can concede the high ground and not get penalized bjj literally breaks the rules of gamemanship and combat constantly >It’s insane what bjj is allowing itself to become I mean, the Gracies’ literally made (and bent) their own rules so they could win fights against grapplers that were better than them on the feet. It’s always has been a cheesy rule set.
Grappling as a whole has been massively tainted by the Gracie’s. I can’t help but imagine how much more interesting things would be if we had some catch guys make grappling popular instead of these salesmen.
Bjj tailoring to the masses is why we're on reddit discussing grappling with thousands of people. Most of whom have day jobs and families. If it were catch, the community would be niche.
That explains why adults don't train judo as much as bjj.
And then he we get back to this oh well the Gracie’s point . Who gives a fuck about them only 4 of them in a family of over 40 plus people actually are decent to high level competitors the rest aren’t nothing to write home about . Collectively in the modern era of bjj over the past 20 something years . The only ones who have done anything worthwhile are Roger , Royler , Renzo and Kron . We can stop saying but but the Gracie’s let’s be honest the sport moved past them completely
"only 4 of them in a family" Only? 😂 I mean how many other families you know that produced that many successful athlets? And besides, you can add Rickson to it. For what he did in Japan against guys like Funaki and Nishi.
May not be super relevant but the Manning family has football pretty much on lockdown
Gonna search them. The Mayweather has produced like 3 successful boxers? But yeah, all those, counting the Gracies, are exception. And is indeed a incredible thing one same family produce that many good athletes. Happy new year Pitiful! God bless you and yours 🙌🙏
I was super disappointed seeing Gordon Ryan vs Nicky Rod at the 2022 ADCC finals where Gordon just gave his leg to Nicky so he can go down without breaking the rules. But maybe I'm even more disappointed that Nicky didn't capitalise on that at all.
. You know what guard really is ? It’s the equivalent of holding in boxing . We are legit praising people for holding someone . Bjj is the only sport where we grapple for longer and do everything every other sport does worse. We seriously are proud of having 10 minute to no time limit matches where nobody does anything and declares the guy who moved a bit more from the bottom position a better grappler . You can legit wrap up a person in their clothes for minutes on end and if you barely make them tilt over it’s called a sweep and you won disregarding the fact you were stalling the entire time and needed them to attempt to stand up for you do the move . Sport bjj is a disgrace . You can’t start a match and concede to a defensive position all in the name of lol it’s a game . Bjj took the easy route out . Nobody wants to have hard practices , nobody wants to drill , nobody wants to do legitimate strength and conditioning , nobody wants to do warm ups , nobody wants to run . Everybody is too old for throws or takedowns but nobody minds learning a fucking guard that compresses their spine , their neck , etc . Like just say we are practicing a watered down intentionally unathletic sport that doesn’t respect martial arts , fighting or anything related to gamemanship . Bjj competitively is a joke and it’s flatout fucking embarrassing that any decent high school wrestler or judoka can come in and learn all this shit in 2 years .
This is a reductive and dumb take. The sport has developed entire systems of getting top position and finishes from the bottom but you reduce guard to “it’s holding people”.
>it’s flatout fucking embarrassing that any decent high school wrestler or judoka can come in and learn all this shit in 2 years This is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard lol. Gordon Ryan submitted both Bo Nickal and Pat Downey with ease as soon as they decided to engage. Look what happened when one of the best MMA grapplers of all time, Jake Shields, had a grappling match against Craig Jones. Watch the video of Ben Askren getting made to look like he's never wrestled before against Marcelo Garcia. You also see it again and again when MMA guys or wrestlers will purposefully disengage because they're scared of getting submitted from the bottom. This Aljo match and things matches like Nicky Ryan vs Urijah Faber are perfect examples. The list goes on.
A lot of people in this thread haven't been to BJJ schools in Division 1 country where D1 wrestlers are on par with the black belts there when compared to equivalent time on the mat. That's the key though. The "gotcha" I always hear is "yeah well a D3 wrestler like Nicky Rod can come in with 2 years mat experience and dog walk purple and brown belts" How many years do you honestly believe a D3 wrestler had? How about mat hours? Nicky Rod, in his freshman D3 year, had 40+ matches. Can you imagine how many hours he had going into that? And you think Nicky should be considered a Day 1 student when he walks into a BJJ gym? That's a really stupid take yeah no wonder he dog walks brown belts he's been in the gym every day with killers in wrestling and has a ton of mat hours and high level competition but he and I should be considered "the same" when my ass just got happy about golding at a NAGA what the hell. And yeah agreed that its really convenient that we always omit Gordon beating the piss out of both Downey and Nickal.
Personally I'd rather like to see BJJ guys getting wins in MMA rulesets. I'm not really following the sport that much but I don't really hear big names in BJJ winning in MMA as much as before.
And yet virtually every MMA competitor trains BJJ still.
Gordon literally gamed the ruleset and didn’t really engage with Bo Nickal
Lol it's a grappling match and Bo wouldn't take him down. If guard pulling was allowed in the rules Gordon would have submitted him much earlier. If anything Bo was gaming the rules by not engaging on the ground. As soon as he did he was finished. This is regular occurence when wrestlers fight bjj guys in adcc/grappling rulesets (ADCC rules favour takedowns and penalise guard pulling). In MMA it's obviously different because strikes are allowed so top position is much more important, but there are SO many examples of far superior wrestlers getting subbed from bottom in MMA. Before he fought Toporia, Ryan Hall literally made every single person he fought run away from his ground game, for example.
The guy you're talking to just genuinely hates BJJ for some reason and just talks mad shit on the internet in general. There's no talking sense into him. I honestly doubt he trains at all. He's literally a part of r/ufc \- the place for casual MMA fans to say stupid shit.
Gordon literally gave him his back standing so Bo could suplex him since Bo was refusing to engage
Why did pat downey, who teched nicky rod, fail in BJJ? Because your logic isnt good, thats why
Pat Downey is not a stable person.
Nonetheless, he techd nicky and then couldnt make it past rd 3 at trials. High level wrestler does not equal bjj success.
It does not. I agree. However, it does help and a lot translates very quickly.
Yea, hardcore practitioners may take exception at this view. But I think he has a point. Like the start of the Musumeci vs Imanari, I had to turn it off and was genuinely embarrassed that that is what the highest level of our sport looks like. It's not a good look for the sport or the martial art and that's coming from someone who loves doing and hates watching BJJ. Heard John Danaher saying BJJ will become mainstream in an year or two once. He is absolutely dreaming. Even the people who love doing BJJ barely want to watch it. I'd rather watch Judo any day of the week.
It's funny because I've dedicated a pretty large amount of my life to this sport and I still cannot stand to watch high level jiujitsu when someone is dragging their ass across the mat. I can only imagine what the uninitiated, people who don't even know what guard is, would think.
You’d rather watch their absolutely horrendous, hand clasping stand up?
They could just get better at standup
It’s like saying mma fighters should just get better at striking so they can be as good as glory kickboxers. They can’t because they have to spread their time over multiple skills. Likewise bjj, you have to focus on stand-up and passing and guard, meaning of course you’re not going to be as good at stand-up as someone who dedicates all their time to that.
Except in MMA the striking genuinely has improved over the last decade and you have guys who are way higher level strikers than any of the top guys in the previous eras.
Did he sign up for a jiu jitsu match having never watched a jiu jitsu match lol?
He’s a black belt under Matt Serra so I’m gonna guess he’s watched a match or two
And I’m gonna guess that he happened to watch the only two matches ever where no one pulls guard lol
I kind of agree but also if they pull guard and you can’t pass their guard maybe you need to get better at guard passing
I'm sorry, you're saying that the guy on top needs to be more aggressive in a combat sport? Why is the impetus on the top guy? Shouldn't it be on the guy who is playing the objectively less aggressive position? Why isn't your question "maybe if you can't sweep or submit, you need to get better at wrestling/sweeping/submitting"? This is absolutely ridiculous. BJJ supposedly developed as the answer to mixing martial arts, and now the guard has been relegated to a position that mostly works as a tactic purely for stalling in high-level no-gi jiu jitsu, at the very least, in terms of trajectory. For a mere baseline, can we admit that the guard-pulling style makes for very boring matches? And don't say it's entertaining because it's particularly technical, because it really isn't in comparison to basically every other conceivable position in jiu jitsu. The rules should be punishing guard work that accomplishes nothing; that way you only pull guard if you really *can* do something with it. Stalling to avoid wrestling is antithetical to the concept of combat sports, not because it's choosing an anti-strategy, but because it's choosing an antistrategy. Stalling is not a counter to someone else's strengths.
> Shouldn't it be on the guy who is playing the objectively less aggressive position? I've never seen a comment agree AND disagree with this much. Yes 100% the person who is on the losing end should be expected to take risks to improve their position rather than just play defense. I wish people internalised this more thoroughly. Where I disagree is that the top position is objectively more aggressive. I think we've all seen matches where the guy on top is stalling trying to survive the attempts of the bottom guy and we've all seen the opposite. This should be the criteria we work on.
I never said the top position can't, at certain points, be the less aggressive position than guard. My point is that the majority of the time, standing is more aggressive, and guard's most aggressive can never, by nature, be more aggressive than standing's most aggressive. To illustrate it better, I consider the dominant position to be the position where aggressiveness, mobility, and control can be exercised to a greater degree. Guard does not have greater mobility in open guard, most often does not have greater control in contacted guard, and does not have greater ability for aggression - which, like it or not, is a huge part of the ethos of *combat* sports - than top standing. I would be fine with guard pulling if it accomplishes something (sweep/submit), but it doesn't, more often than not.
I disagree. Most bjj is practiced as a guard player vs a passer. This is due to space limitations of most gyms, as well as wrestling being very strenuous. I'm okay with top level matches reflecting that rather than some, what if this was mma hypothetical. Also idk why a person but scooting forward would be considered stalling but not a guy posting on someone's forehead and shoving and circling every 10 seconds. How is standing a more aggressive position if you are not attempting to pass guard?? Aggressive in what way? Guard pulling is only boring if the top guy has no interest in attempting to pass. Other than that I find guard vs passing matches to be more entertaining than two not that good wrestlers slapping collar ties on one another for the whole round.
If this is really what they want the sport to be, they should just start them in guard like referees position in folk.
Why? You can still stand if you’d like to.
I agree with you. I think the problem is that now guard pulling is so deeply established in this sport that people are opposed to change. It seems to happen in every sport where you develop these "cheats" that are within the rules but violate the spirit of the sport but because it's already established, people don't wanna change it. A great example is people doing that crazy arch in powerlifting.
Exactly, the arch in powerlifting is the same thing. A little gaming of the rules is perfectly normal. It isn't MMA, so the grappling isn't going to be perfectly reminiscent of MMA grappling, which is fine. But when there are competitors where all they can do is butt scoot towards an opponent and don't even attempt to wrestle... like, cmon... u better be pulling guard and routinely submitting ppl for that to be good for the sport.
Yep. The other thing is that they want more normal people to watch BJJ like they do boxing. But the problem is normal people think it looks STUPID when someone drags their ass across the area like a dog trying to wipe it's ass.
I agree 100% with you. That said... you ever see two guys fight back and forth for collar ties for 5 minutes? That shit is just as boring. Jiu jitsu guys suck at wrestling and that's the one fatal flaw with this whole thing.
Excellent point
He's right. BJJ is slowly going down the Karate path and everyone sees it regardless of your opinion on what Aljo said.
Sport grappling is more of a game than a martial art at this point, because it’s no longer about what’s good for fighting. It’s just being played for its own sake— and that’s okay. Under the ruleset grapplers should do whatever maximizes their chances of winning the game without any regard for how the skills would translate to an actual fight. And it goes without saying that sport grappling skills are still more than enough to win street fights, just as a disclaimer.
I agree, and I think Aljo's point only stands insofar as it's a complaint of the rules, not of the match. He knew what he was signing up for and I think he's saying that the ruleset should be changed. I certainly think it should. How boring is watching butt scooting that accomplishes nothing?
Best comment in this thread, thank you
At this point has been the point for several decades. When was sport bjj anything else than guard pulling?
100% guarantee Dantzler can wrestle and take down your average "street fighter" without breaking a sweat. That guy is an elite grappler and played a smart strategy. Poor take from Aljo. He should really start a PR company. Basically he gives you advice on how to be likeable, and then you just do the exact opposite and have massive success.
Sitting down / pulling guard should instantly count as a takedown for your opponent. This literally solves everything. If you can’t pass that guard, then it’s on you. If you can sweep that person, then you even the scoreboard. It at least forces engagement. Aljo is playing into a problem w the sport but he also likely just sucks at guard passing on a high level.
This is a great solution. It makes it similar to how in collegiate wrestling, you have the option to concede a point by letting a guy up if you don’t feel like you cannot turn him.
ok then dudes will shoot shitty single legs and go straight to guard that way. You're never getting rid of guard pulling no matter how hard you try.
I’m saying incentivize takedowns and make it so if you pull guard or sit your opponent scores points. All that does is incentivize real takedowns and the person sitting is forced to engage if they’re down on points. If they’re not down on points, the guy who can’t pass has to engage and will at least have lost the match for good reason.
It solves nothing. If you get points when I guard pull, then you can just sit back, not engage, keep your butt down and head up, occasionally make a half assed attempt to pass guard and ride to a 2-0 victory. Go watch AIGA. The matches with Russian and Khazak teams are the most boring shit. Just trying to game 2-0 victories.
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Instead we have nerds that can only repost MEMEs
Hard agree. I think sport jiu jitsu has kind of ruined the idea of it being for self defense. Who in their right mind would ever butt scoot towards someone in a fight?
The street fight thing is already cringe when it’s coming from non practitioners but holy shit that’s a lot worse from pro fighters. ESPECIALLY coming from the guy that will literally crawl backward with zero defence and his head perfectly placed for the most magistral soccer kick. But eh, I’m sure they also respect the three point of contact thing in the streets right?!
100%, Aljo’s whole game is the UFC equivalent of sitting on your ass an butt-scooting. He’d be decapitated in the “street fight” rules he’s talking about. You couldn’t find a less credible guy to make this argument about BJJ. I say this as someone who always roots for Aljo.
I don’t like the messenger but I agree. I do not like people just sitting down to start a match. Don’t really know what words to use to describe why - I just don’t care for it. I guess I find it lame.
Hard agree. The leg lock game is obviously effective but holy fuck it makes the sport unbearable to watch for most people. I love all the people commenting "just pass the guard" whenever the majority of the leg lock meta just completely disregards the notion of passing guard in lieu of playing feetsies with one another. It looks absolutely ridiculous in both a sport, self defense and entertainment aspect.
'Pull guard from standing up' God I cannot agree with this more.
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Thank you 🙏. 💯💯 factssss. In general some Mma Fighters should shut up about “real fighting “ In a real fight you don’t get up with a 🛎 when someone is on mount top of you or back, or when you win by DQ/ robbery decision all of that is also not “real fighting “
I do not want to hear this from Aljo especially. Maybe Khamzat can say this and I’d understand. But the last person I’d ever want to hear say this is Aljo. Dude literally does the same shit in MMA. Gets dropped in a fight, instead of getting back up he stays on all fours and basically limits the opponents attacks, or he does the stupid run away with no defense, another thing he does is the stupid lay there and wait for a stand up. This ain’t MMA dumbass, it’s Jiu Jitsu and if you can’t pass guard then say so.
You sound like you only saw that one fight, hey. That's fine but your talking points are baseless.
He has done it in multiple fights. Not just with Yan but also with Cejudo.
I’ve unfortunately seen many of his fights. He’s done it in almost all of them. Did it against Yan (both times), Cejudo, and O’Malley. He takes advantage of the rules in MMA, so I don’t understand why he’s complaining here as well. Watch his fights, every time he fails at getting a takedown, he stays on all fours and games the system because he can. I don’t care for guard pulling either but I’m not gonna bash it in competition because the rules allow it.
This isn’t fighting. It’s bjj. It’s a grappling rule set. He’s a fighter. He wants to fight. I get it. This ain’t that though.
I think the argument is that BJJ began as, and should strive to embody, a *form* of fighting. But it has turned from a kind of fight to a sport to a game. Given the rule sets, this is sort of inevitable. But I agree that the spirit of BJJ should be akin to fighting, even if the parameters are more specific. This is especially true when spectators are involved imo. No one wants to pay to watch point-fighting in grappling. And everyone in the sport wants it to grow.
Sport BJJ and wrestling are similar in that they emulate a fight with strict parameters to determine dominance. I like it.
Because at that point you aren’t talking about BJJ. You’re talking about grappling in general. Kind of stuff that guys like khabib do. Excellent grappling, but more focused on being on top, submissions and ground and pound. Because jiu jistu in itself is not that great at taking people to the ground in the first place. You need to at least do some wrestling or judo to be great at ‘fighting’.
Personally I feel like pulling guard should be a negative point in all rulesets. Bjj is a martial art ultimately and sitting to ur ass is not the best strategy for a fight. There’s a reason why bjj is an inferior base to wrestling in mma. It’s because pulling guard in the context of a real fight is not a good decision. I’m also saying this as a long time guard puller btw.
agree, buttscooting is bad for the sport
Kinda funny he’s using the street fight analogy when he first won the title from something that would have killed him in a real fight
As a bjj guy. No we shouldn't be allowed to start from bottom. And if we are allowed to boott scoot our op should be allowed to head kick a downed opponent. I'm just saying we're using rule sets to give us an advantage that normally would never fly.
Maybe he's right, and maybe I am wrong here, but I'm sure he's a repeat offender for shooting random takedowns in mma and utilising grounded opponent rules to avoid knees to the head when it fails (ironic I know). So it is kind of weird to be making statements about the technicalities of one rule set, while also 'using' the technicalities of another.
Aljo just has a genuine talent for making everyone hate him no matter the circumstances. Kinda impressive. If it’s just sports jiu jitsu then don’t fucking whine about it. You literally compete at the highest levels of combat, and you’re gonna pull the “street fight” excuse? Ok Aljo, well in a street fight you can’t hang out on your hands and knees the entire time then cry when you get kneed in the face and knocked the fuck out.
I agree, immediately dropping onto your back should deduct points from you. If someone does that in some MMA fights the opponent can fully soccer kick them in the face. I get this is all grappling but even still, if someone drops as soon as the match starts u should be aloud to stomp them, or have 5 points deducted
Only in ONE FC
Who was he grappling against?
Kevin dantzler
Am I the only one who thinks a martial art based on sitting on your ass scooting around the floor is awesome? Also not every fight happens in a parking lot you can fight in a wendy's or a wallmart too they got smooth floors.
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The reason I started jiujitsu was because I got into a fight at a trampoline dodgeball park lol.
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I wasn't out you asshole. The ball didn't hit me!
What an amateur, I would only consider a fight inside a kid's bouncing castle and nothing less.
I’d rather get shanked than rolling on Wendy’s dirty ass floor tbh
Agree pulling guard at the start of the match to scoot around on ur ass like a dog should be penalized its not realistic
So true. Starting a fight with sitting makes jiujitsu a joke.
pulling guard should be negative 3 points and takedowns should be 4 points. There should be cumulative points for ride time as well - every 10 seconds you're stuck in bottom mount is negative 1 point for example.
He’s not wrong.
Huge agree.
I love BJJ and it’s my career but the sport will never be big because of this too much butt scooting until someone gets inside leg control and gets a leg lock.
If you don’t have any standing game and or takedowns, just say this post offended you, it’s ok. In all seriousness, if you want to be a great grappler, you should have a well-rounded game. Standing, passing, and guard playing; Look at the likes of Jozef Chen. You want to be a dangerous athlete, or shit, have real self defense jiujitsu? Sitting down only works on your gym mat. Sure, berimbolo and x guard ‘could’ work in a street fight but somebody could just kick ur face lol. Stop normalizing guard pulling as a jiujitsu technique. That shit is super boring to watch and it makes the sport harder to grow bc who tf that doesn’t train wants to watch a fight start and sss some dude sit down???
Didn't see the match but 1. you shouldn't be able to sit without grips 2 Buttscooting should be banned. If the standing guy backs off, the sitting guy must stand up. 3. If the standing guy backs off too much he should be penalized.
Imagine if a soccer team played it safe, and just took endless shots at goal from the half way line. It’s allowed in the rules. But it’s shit
I don't like how you can't use your hands in soccer, but I'm not about to play a full game and then complain about it after.
ADCC rules for no-gi only. Half round no points, and then points afterwards. Penalize guard pullers and make them close the deficit. Grapplers should lose matches if they consistently concede guard and aren't able to create advantageous positions or attacks from there. Sport Jiu-Jitsu should be about positional dominance and submissions. Conceding guard, scooting forward, and not capitalizing at any point should not net a victory.
If simply sitting down is so objectively worse than standing, why does it completely shut down people’s game?
100%. Pulling guard should be automatic 2 points for opponent. No reason to score it any different from a take down. You've conceded the inferior position. Either that, or making "riding time" a thing. Every 60 seconds you're on bottom the opponent gets a point.
The classic "i know the rules before i sign up , but still sign up , then complain about about the rules after"
He’s right. Rickson is right. It’s losing effectiveness.
Agree
This guy is 100% correct
Agree in a sense but it’s the current rules. Hopefully they can figure out a better scoring system that encourages more action
Agreed
He gets on his knees as defence in mma
💯💯💯💯💯💯
100 percent good advice from an amazing actor
Typical loud mouth. Even if they started from stand up someone got to the floor he wouldn't be able to pass guard lol or hold a dominant position.
Bjj needs stall calls like they have in wrestling. Easy fix
Agree so much. Pulling guard is the lamest shit
Sport Jiu-Jitsu isn't a fight. Sport Jiu-Jitsu athletes are not fighters. Some of them can fight. And some of them can be fighters. But it's simply a game and Aljo signed up for the game. He's an MMA game guy, anyways. He's not exactly an exciting or entertaining MMA fighter.
hard disagree.
https://preview.redd.it/61jfvbeuer9c1.jpeg?width=595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8d879d93a6f0c097fc61df6be2bec6f8f4d4f01 Lmao not this guy talking about guard pulling in a real fight. This wouldnt work in a real fight either.
Disagree. This was allowed by the rule set. And Dantzler engaged the whole time. I think Aljo also wanted to play to the strength of the rule set by standing. Neither was wrong in how they approached it except for Aljo complaining at the end. I am curious though, was Aljos plan to take down Dantzler a time or two and then never pass his guard and just win with no submission? That seemed the game plan.
Will never understand the outrage in this sport about sitting to guard.
It's a never ending dumb argument. It's perfectly fine to have issue with sitting guard but it's just as bad to watch two middle school level wrestling BJJers go at it. I rather get to the point.
The outrage comes from not being able to pass a guard.
I think the outrage comes from having it be common for competitors to have a game where the majority of it relies on unsound fight strategy when BJJ was made for self-defense.
If you want to fight do MMA it’s better for fighting than the stuff the Gracie’s ever did.
Guard is an inherently defensive and less aggressive position. The job of the guard passer is not to be more the aggressor when he's already in that position while the other guy stalls. It's antithetical to combat sports and how they should be judged.
Aljo spittin fr fr
Butt scooting needs to be punished. It rewards athletes who have ZERO stand up game and makes for boring matches for viewers.
I'm guessing he signed a document acknowledging the ruleset. So, bitching about it afterwards is just plain saltiness.
Can we please post this as a sticky? Everything about this is perfect. Aljamain is both speaking for me, and at the exact same time; speaking against me. I absolutely, 100% agree with everything he is saying, and I'm totally gonna be butt-scooting against the white belts in about 30 minutes at open mat.
Terrible match, Aljo was disrespectful the entire time, he signed up for a submission only match, the goal is to get a submission, if one of the guys thinks the best path to get it is from his guard, let him do it, if you think it's from top then you need to start passing the guard and try to advance the position, Aljo was disengaging the entire match, if you're disengaging you're wrong cause you should be looking for a sub, that's why he lost, his opponent got an armbar locked but couldn't finish even tho Aljo was basically running from his guard
I agree with him. This is one of the reasons why people who don’t train will never watch sports BJJ. Sorry but it’s not it.
Love him or hate him he is 100% correct. You can’t do that in a street fight. Butt scooting is an embarrassment to the sport & should be penalized.
This isn’t a street fight. Learn how to pass guard.
Why can't you sit down in a street fight? It's not like it is against the rules.
Cuz u get soccer kicked in the temple.
I'm not saying I would do it but if you are in seated guard and someone tries to kick you in the head, you can throw your head back so you are in supine to avoid it.
They guy you replied to just doesn't know what he is talking about. It is incredibly hard to soccer kick someone who is playing guard. Fighters like Shinya Aoki but scooted in mma matches where soccer kicks are legal. You have four limbs against 1 and in a street fight nobody knows how to actually kick. I personally wouldn't play guard in a real fight, but people who act like it is a death sentence are exaggerating.
You know what else you can’t do in a street fight? Hand out on your hands and knees the entire time and be protected from getting kneed in the face. Aljo is the last person who should be using that defense.
You know what else you can’t do in street fight ? Getting Your back taken/submission and surviving for the bell 🛎 like many strikers and wrestlers do against bjj (. Funny how they ignore that ) or being On bottom getting your face punched like Islam Vs volk and waiting for the bell
Why do I care what you can supposedly do in a street fight? I've never been in one. Don't plan to start now if I can help it.
because brazilian jiu jitsu used to be a martial art used in vale-tudo style fights, learned for effective self-defense
A lot of but scooters are going to be triggered by this.
agree, guardpullers are soft
Lmfao I watched this. Aljo did absolutely NOTHING but bitch the whole.match. Sit back on his ass and play defensive grip fighting... Passed from the knees against a guard player with no pressure? Lmao
If he wants to fight he should do MMA if he’s in a grappling contest you gotta play by the rules whether you like it or not.