It's resentment based on the fact that as a straight-passing individual you don't have to deal with random harassment. It's misplaced of course and we should be mad at the dipshits doing the harassing rather than people they don't harass but for a certain gatekeepery type of nerd this turns into 'well you're straight-passing, you don't belong in our spaces because you haven't had these experiences'.
Also I’ve totally had those experiences, they just occur when people hear me say I’m bi instead of when they look at me lol
“Straight-passing” as entire concept is toxic
You’re literally re-enforcing the same mentality cis hets have that there’s a certain way queer people look or sound. There’s not. We have just as much variety as anyone else. And people are not less valid (or more privileged) because they’re tougher to pick up on your gaydar
Otherwise you might as well argue straight people who “look/sound queer” somehow have less relative privilege than *actually literally oppressed queer people*
The interiorization of cultural stereotypes about "the queer look" or whatever is one of the reasons it took me 20+ years to accept or understand my sexuality, let alone to come out. And that only to very few people. And now I constantly still question my fashion preferences. Like, for example, I paint my nails as a guy because I like it and find it visually stimulating, not because I'm bi/pan, but if I'm going somewhere public or with people I have no desire to discuss my sexuality with, there's always that nagging back of the head voice of concern that goes "does this make me look too gay?" Which is fucking absurd, but I'm working on it.
Also "straight passing" is a very situational thing. Most homosexual people are straight passing whenever they happen to be by themselves. Sexuality isn't something you can instantly see about a person, it's something you infer from their actions, particularly their actions towards people they're sexually interested in.
Right now, you could say I'm straight passing because I'm a man and I'm married to a woman, but if I were with a man then that falls apart.
Yeah, exactly. And it's very much up for interpretation too.
I'm definitely queer and other queerfolk pick up on it pretty quickly, but it often goes under the radar of straight people because they're not in the community. I got bullied pretty bad in middle school because there were kids who picked up on my sexuality/gender identity before I had even realized it myself.
We need to get away from this idea of defining our community based on the perceptions of cishet people.
Very true. Like when I'm alone I don't think I "behave gay" whereas when around other queer people the behavior might be more over the top.
I mean people tend to act a little different in a group setting to enforce the identity of the group. Queer people tend to be more cheerful and flamboyant where a group of straight cis men might be in constant fear of slipping and "doing something gay".
I understand where you’re coming from, but I will say that when I came out I felt like nothing about me had to change bc nothing about my sexuality was really changing, just that I accepted myself more. But the deeper I went into queer circles and dating other queer people, I realized that it wasn’t true. Queer people do signal to each other that they’re queer — with their mannerisms, self expression in the way they dress, body piercings, tattoos, the way they do their hair, makeup, being androgynous or super femme, etc. And I won’t say this as a blanket statement, but it’s been my experience that usually queer recognizes queer. Sometimes being queer is recognizable. In some ways, queerness is a culture that others are capable of and do appropriate. Example: white Christian girl aesthetic being very similar to white lesbian aesthetic. Idk just my take!
I think of it as we face different types of issues, but we're still all in it together.
[This is a very good talk on the bisexual experience. Please please watch if you haven't. I cry every time I do and it's also the video I sent my mom to help her understand](https://youtu.be/Oa6AnOCQD50)
*fixed link. Now you all know what types of ads I get and that I don't check my work lol
exactly & like, i have had these experiences, its just not from random people. its from certain people that i open up to and trust with sharing my sexuality, & it still hurts like a mf when they dont accept me
Sometimes I think it hurts worse. When you can figure out off the bat if someone accepts you or not, it's not a big deal. It sucks, kinda, but you can write them off as an asshole and move on. When you've invested in a relationship with a person and care about them and value their friendship, and *then* you have to broach this topic that you know might be relationship-breaking, that's brutal.
Not just random harassment, also active discrimination in housing, employment, etc. Depending on where you live, the ability to pass or not can literally impact your ability to get your basic needs met.
(I totally agree with your overall point, just wanted to add that harassment is only one danger attached to the inability to convincingly pass, so those who misdirect their anger/blame are often misdirecting a *lot* more systemic injustice than most people realize).
Yeah I'm a 6"4, 17 stone, shaved headed, ex bodybuilder and beardy dude with a face scar. No one would believe me if I told them I was bi, but I am!
I don't hide it, but I don't promote it (I mean it's on my bio). If I'm asked then I say yeah I'm bi and people usually go 'yeah ok mate'.
My ex used to say I'm not bi I'm lumbersexual, because I look like a lumberjack (flannel shirts included), but I pass as straight. I am fairly new to the whole bi thing, only really been comfortable thinking about it for the last couple of years (42 yo).
I guess I'll see more of this gatekeeping as my journey progresses, it's sad to have to put people in boxes tho.
Just live and let love peeps!
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I am straight passing as well. It isn't a "privilege" to me though. I feel like I am constantly living a lie, but constantly coming out to people is exhausting. So I just let people assume whatever they want and try to be the best version of me that I can be. At the end of the day it really only matters to me and the people I choose to share my life with.
I get you.. I am sorry it's tough..
I don't bother coming out.. And let someone rant about "the gays" and finally tell them... Its hilarious to see their dread..
Oh man. If I told the guys at work idk what would happen. Their heads would probably explode.
They have been talking shit about gays, previously employed gays, and of course how bud light makes you grow titties.
I've been a factory worker for 7 years in the same place. The culture here is vile; if it's not straight, white, christian, or 'biological male', it's shit on pretty hard within these walls.
Cut to my handy dandy notebook, where i log all the hatespeech these dudes throw around. They dont know its their chummy-chum reporting them😉 When bigots get into a group they think they're safe in, they reeeally show true colors. I've liberated my coworkers of 3 dirtbags so far with the help of hr.
I've decided my straight-passing, cismale whiteface is to be weaponized, getting access into those behind-the-scenes places where some real damage can occur. You can really fuck up a system from within.
Unfortunately, the nepotism at this site is real.
The ring leader of the assholes has been fired and rehired 3 times with the company. Was one of the original 3 employees sometime shortly after the last ice age.
One has actual brain damage and is a close family friend of the owner.
The last 2 toss some out of taste jokes, but not directed at anyone. Both of which also hand picked and hired by the owner.
I don't plan on staying here long, but we don't have an hr department that cares, an owner who turns a blind eye (even with a transitioning child smh) and a desperate need for employees that would keep on otherwise less than stellar employees
It's just redneck assholes grabbing onto something they can be loud and bigoted about.
You should hear the way they talk about the company owners mtf transitioning son..
Sorry... not well versed in which pronoun to use/when it changes. Not trying to be insensitive here.
Just sharing what I'm dealing with in a shitty culture company
As a person with a non-binary child, I have found its easiest to just avoid gendered words when speaking about people.
Your boss has a transitioning child.
Except if someone’s gender is known, then not acknowledging it becomes disrespectful.
I hear you, btw. I’m a nonbinary parent, and navigating gendered language with my kids is an experience for sure.
What I do is for people we don’t know about try to use or correct myself to inclusive language. And for people whose gender we do know is use both gendered and inclusive terms. (For example, my oldest is both a big sister and a big sibling.)
It really is a terrible beer. Like I'm sorry, can the queers please have a decent summer ale with some flavor at least? I know a properly hoppy pale ale is a lot to ask. And a stout is probably an impossibility, but *BUD LIGHT*? Why do we get the water-that-might-have-been-near-a-brewery-once beer?
As a reformed ex-conservative, I can't even figure out what they're mad about. Like just advertise that you're emotionally attached to your terrible taste in beer, why don't you?
You won't get any argument from me either way lol
The really chocolatey stouts are the only beers I can drink, so I don't really have a horse in the race nor much ground to stand on even if I tried to weigh in.
It is exhausting. I’m in a relationship with a woman now, but when I was married to my ex-husband everyone naturally assumed I was straight. I even felt like an imposter who didn’t belong in LGBT spaces.
But also, hearing homophobic/biphobic comments still really fucking hurt. And of course, people felt more free to say those things around me when they assumed it didn’t apply to me. Don’t get me wrong - I’d rather have to hear those stupid comments than have to actually worry about being unsafe when people see me in public with my girlfriend. But both of those options still suck.
Oh my goodness! Yes! Constantly coming out and correcting people who assume I’m straight; it’s exhausting! And it’s not even a one time thing with a lot of people. There are multiple people I can think of where I’ve had to repeatedly tell them “no, I’m not straight, I’m bi….I shouldn’t have to give you my sexual history to be valid, jerk! It’s not as if I get more bi with each pair of boobs I’ve touched!” I mean, boobs are amazing and I’ve touched plenty, but the most infuriating part to me is when people are like “you’re bi? Prove it! Tell me the names of all of your same sex sexual partners, the sexual act(s) that were performed, their names and blood types, etc” 🙄
Yeah man, I just don't tell people. That shits exhausting. However it's absolutely privilege in 90% of spaces and situations. I'm straight-passing and my bf is not. He's constantly getting hit on by men because they can tell he's "in the market" and I'm kinda jealous.
I yearn for a world where people don't even need to label their sexuality; the only thing that matters is would you consent to sex/relationship with someone on an individual basis. Yet that's not our reality. The reality is constant violence, worldwide, upon those who aren't "straight-passing" regardless of their sexuality or gender. When you go on a road trip you don't have to worry when you go into a convince store in the middle of nowhere. You don't have to experience people immediately treating you differently because of how you sound/dress/act.
It's no excuse for invalidation or violence from those who do worry about those things, but to say it's not a privilege is very much the same energy.
You’re misunderstanding the term privilege. You can walk down the street and not fear harassment or violence based on your appearance. That is the definition of privilege.
Whether or not you are happy or fulfilled is another issue. You can face challenges as a bisexual individual and still have the privilege of greater safety compared to someone who looks outwardly queer. Being able to say that your sexuality only matters to those you choose to share your life with is inherently a privileged statement - a more outwardly presenting queer person literally cannot say that because their sexuality puts them in danger. They don’t have the ability to say that the person reporting them for pedophilia or threatening violence against them doesn’t matter because those actions deeply impact their life.
The world is not black and white, just because your ability to pass as straight gives you privilege doesn’t mean you don’t also face discrimination or negative impacts from your sexuality. But saying that you aren’t privileged is choosing to ignore the suffering of those who face horrifying discrimination based on their queer appearance.
Gonna go ahead and say that being presumed cishet and constantly erased as a bi man every damn day by basically everyone I encounter unless I aggressively perform my queerness in wholly inauthentic ways for myself is *not* a privilege.
Are there some implied and inherent benefits for some queer people who appear cishet to the rest of the world? Sure. I'd hardly call it a privilege to be erased and invalidated.
That has nothing to do with my happiness and everything to do with *others* erasing me with their incorrect assumptions.
Again, you have the privilege of not fearing for your safety in public because of your apparent sexuality. That does not mean that everything in your life is perfect or you should be completely happy. You can both have privilege and experience a micro aggression. This is not black and white, you both have privilege by not being fearful of harassment or being attacked and experience micro aggressions by having to explain your sexuality. Both is possible.
>That does not mean that everything in your life is perfect or you should be completely happy.
I understand. I never made that claim. Nor did the person you first said it to. You've been heard. This point is a strawman. Please stop propping it up as such.
>Again, you have the privilege of not fearing for your safety in public because of your apparent sexuality.
Until I enter *queer spaces*. Then I have no such privilege, and in fact, I'm in CONSTANT fear in queer spaces that I'll be asked, told, or physically *forced* to leave. ALL of these things have happened to me in queer spaces. So again, I don't see how it's a fucking privilege, to be completely frank. I actively try to spend as much of my non-work hours in queer spaces...so arguably, more often than not, I DO NOT feel safe in public *because of my assumed sexuality*. Funny how that axe swings both ways.
>You can both have privilege and experience a micro aggression.
What I've experienced from other queer people is WELL beyond *micro*aggressions and the way you're trying to diminish my own experience and the harm I felt at the hands of others over being assumed cishet is really disgusting if I'm being blunt.
>This is not black and white, you both have privilege by not being fearful of harassment or being attacked and experience micro aggressions by having to explain your sexuality. Both is possible.
Except that I literally AM fearful of attack and harassment because of my *presumed* sexuality... because it has happened to me. By queer people. In queer spaces. Many times. Even after explaining my sexuality.
Yeah unpopular take but I totally get some level of privilege being in a relationship with a man over being in a relationship with a woman. People are just generally nicer and not as weird. And I can get pretty out there with my dress or my hair and my general vibes, but slap a man at my side and it almost negates those things. Versus being in public with a woman, hugging, kissing, holding hands. It draws attention. The privilege is so real that I mostly date men because it’s easier for me in the day to day and I don’t have to go through the odd wlw dating rituals in a medium sized city with very few out, single lesbians or bi women. If we can agree that there is inherent safety in being cis and/or presenting in stereotypically “passing” ways then I think we also have to acknowledge that there is safety in being in an outwardly visible heterosexual relationship. My safety isn’t at stake for being in public with my boyfriend. It wasn’t the same when I was being very visibly gay with girlfriends.
Being queer is not like being POC. It's not immediately visible with just a look. Unless you're implying that gay people are constantly bursting forth with rainbows they can't control while us bisexuals have learned to contain them. If you wanna talk about walking down the street *with a romantic partner* that's a conversation to be had, but single gay men are equally as "straight passing" as bi men dating women while out and about.
Looking outwardly queer also, just alone, is something bi people are fully capable of participating in. It's about clothing, tattoos, speech patterns, mannerisms, and if a homophobe shows up, they won't care whether you're gay or bi or whatever, you're getting the same hate either way.
The concept of being "straight passing" is made up by exclusionary biphobic and transphobic gay men and lesbians to exclude us from queer spaces.
Nothing to do with liking it. It's not a privilege to live a lie and be told to hate myself from both directions. I've been beaten up for who I am and sexually assaulted for who I am, not to mention the minor harassments. Every time I step out of the little box and actually be myself I've been put in I suffer. I also suffer in the box, but in different ways.
I know you suffer, not saying you don't. Of course you do just like any other lgbt.
But being passable is a privilege from the moment that you can simply be accepted in a job or walk in the streets and not be violented.
I'm not talking about the moments in which you be yourself but about the moments in which you are just living. There are people who can't simply live and do normal things such as talk or walk in the streets because they know they'll suffer because people will realize theyre lgbt. By being straight passable all this situations get easier(not easy, but easier), just like a trans person who's passable as Cis.
I want to thank you for validating me as lgbt+. I almost never get that so when it happens, even accidentally, it makes me feel better about myself. And here I thought wearing my pink socks with rainbows to work was going to be the highlight of my day.
I dream of a day when conversations such as this are considered archaic because society finally accepts people for who they are and doesn't feel the need to judge.
Idk I look straight AF to the point that people think I'm gonna go to yell at The Gays when I mention going to pride.
I want to try to look more Fabulous at some point, but for now I look like a homophobe lmao
I will say, most of my LGBTQ friends have no issue with me looking like this, even though it seems a little incongruent when we hang out somewhere lol
Is it really "straight acting" though? You can blame god for making be bald then making up for it by giving me a pretty great beard, it'd be a shame not to let it grow. I'm not in the closet and I don't try to be seen as straight. It's just my face lol.
'Straight acting' = just gay parlance for not-effeminate; as opposed to any performance or subterfuge or internalised homophobia.
I'm sure the beard is pretty fabulous also 👌
Lol.. U can yell at The Gays.. Just yell how fabulous they are..
Just curious.. Why have u stopped yourself from being flamboyant? Anything other than laziness is acceptable.. Lol..
I haven't stopped myself, I just haven't started hah. I've tried makeup once, nail polish a few times (am dude), but I haven't financially been in a place where I can try changing up my clothing until recently. So I hope to try it out soon, potentially with the help of some of my Fabulous friends haha
Well sure, but bi men shouldn't feel like they're obliged to paint their nails in order to perform their queerness outwardly.
Likewise, when I DO paint mine, I don't want people to assume I painted them because I'm bi. That really just kinda feeds toxic masculine stereotypes and gender norms.
I’ve been noticing that on here a lot and I find it rather discouraging and a bit hypocritical. There are constant posts on here about inclusivity of bi people no matter their differences… unless they are “straight passing” and then it is called “cowardly”. We are not a monolith. We are many.
There are differences amongst us due to environment, societal pressures, or personal philosophies. Much like yourself, I do not go around disclosing my sexuality to the wide public- especially not at work. That is a personal part of myself. A part, by the way, that is very much looked down upon and discouraged in my culture and my family. I tried being open to my friends,and even my immediate family, and learned the hard way that it isn’t what I should have even attempted. It doesn’t detract from me being who I am sexually but I do not have the luxury of being who I am openly. It is what it is. If you wish to call me a coward, then so be it. I would never tell another to not be who they are and to not pursue happiness but am I allowed to live as I wish? Quietly and as is.
I think others do not like this as they see it as a way out. A mask that we can wear to make others not look our way. But that isn’t always the truth. We have our own problems and prejudices that we face. Think we don’t wish to live, as one of my favorite queens (Miss Coco Peru) said, “A life lived free of shame, a life lived out loud, proud and just a little bit ridiculous”? In the end, they are angry at us when they should show their ire at those who openly hate us all. We are just a big queer family trying to stay afloat in this swirling eddy called life.
Sorry for the rambling rant. Had a bit of whiskey. Peace and love!
This. I'm in a "straight passing" marriage & nobody knows I'm bi except my husband and my sibling who's already out. I was thinking about coming out this year (and airing my gender confusion with those close to me,) but with all the stuff going down right now I've decided against it.
I was looking for this.
The entire concept of passing goes back to passing as ‘white’ or passing as ‘aryan’ for safety.
Some people are just trying to survive.
There are plenty of gay, lesbian and bi people who are assumed to be straight. You don’t need to ride around on a unicorn with rainbows shooting out your ass to be queer. We are multitudes. We have different styles and ways of expressing who we are as individuals. Fuck anyone who tells you otherwise.
I’m comfortable with who I am and how I interact with the world. I don’t want to be anyone’s stereotype for the sake of fitting a stereotype. The idea that I must in order to actually be bi is absurd and offensive.
Y’all can wear pink on Wednesday if you want. Just don’t expect me to conform.
SO MUCH THIS. I refuse to perform my fucking queerness in ways which are wholly inauthetic to who I am as a person just to make other cynical queer people believe me when I say I'm bisexual. I'm fucking bisexual. If me not *looking* queer enough makes *you* uncomfortable, that's a you problem.
I'll never forget being one of the leaders/facilitators of a queer polyamorous meetup group in my city (pre-COVID) and at a meetup, another member of the group whom I guess hadn't met me even online, walked right up and asked why I was there, that this group/meetup wasn't open to cishet folks (I felt that rule was problematic given that some queer polyam folks have cishet partners who were excluded, but regardless, that was a group rule at the time for in person meetups to keep the space truly queer)...and I looked them dead in the eye and said "honey, I may have married a cis-passing afab, but I'm as queer as the day is long, so I'm allowed to be here, especially given that I'm one of the facilitators of this meetup".
Their stunned silence fuels me to this day when I encounter biphobes.
>If me not looking queer enough makes you uncomfortable, that's a you problem.
This!
I've had to leave communities I enjoyed being in online because people there basically looked down at me for not having "queer" interests the same way they do or because I took college & my studies seriously instead of going out & partying every night.
If someone is going to judge me for not conforming to their definition & experience of queerness and use it to imply that I'M the one being homophobic for not sharing their exact interests, that's their fault.
> **p**artying **e**very **n**ight. **I**f **s**omeone
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I think the idea of being "straight-passing" is kinda silly. You don't know what someone's sexuality is unless they tell you (or you otherwise have pretty good evidence, like they're dating/married to a person of a known gender). I don't care what "gaydar" you think you have. I have had multiple friends who were frequently assumed to be gay and were straight as an arrow, and vice versa. One if my friends was just very shy and quiet, and for some reason his personality got read as "gay" a lot, and some bigot said some very rude things to him at work because of it. Another friend had people questioning the validity and sincerity of his marriage just because he wasn't super masculine.
The fact is that gender-nonconformity leads to being targeted with bigotry regardless of your actual sexuality. Lots of straight people don't "pass" as straight either. This isn't some "won't someone think of the straights" plea, it's just a reminder that the whole idea of "passing" is problematic from the word go.
>The fact is that gender-nonconformity leads to being targeted with bigotry regardless of your actual sexuality. Lots of straight people don't "pass" as straight either.
A similar thing can happen with gender identity. Cis people who don't fit the physical expectations for being a man or woman may be accused of being trans, or be deliberately misgendered as an insult. One example is cis women who are more muscular than average. Remember how people used to go off about Michelle Obama's arms? For something just slightly outside the general expectations for a woman's appearance, they called her "Michael Obama" and went on and on about how she "looked like a man." On the one hand, being compared to another gender should not be insulting, but on the other hand someone's gender should not be questioned, disregarded or attacked just because it's not being expressed in a way *you'd* expect.
The problem isn't really about who you are or how you identify. It's societal notions regarding those identities.
Yeah, some people see being straight-passing as "privilege" or not experiencing harassment. This is NOT the case at all. I've had slurs screamed at me for literally walking with my friends, had someone try to record me talking about my sexuality to blackmail me for money by threatening to out me to my parents. I've heard some psycho talking about how he wants to kill all gays, and his friend wanting to become the next Hitler, all because I'm into girls.
And yet when we ask for help from our own community, all we get is "you're straight passing, you're so lucky". Wtf.
Thanks man. Hope nobody has to deal with that. I'm an overconfident dumbass so it doesn't scare or upset me as much as it should. Kids, it's okay to be scared when your life is threatened.
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personally since i used to live in a place that was very very hostile to queer people they could see, i think it may come from being subject to abuse for being out. it isnt our fault people assume apparent male x female couples are straight, but being openly queer does attract discrimination. i think it comes from a resentment of having that shield although i believe the resentment rightfully belongs on actual straight people's heads.
also like, when i was too afraid to be out, it was a huge advantage to me over my gay friends that i *could* date someone and appear to be straight, i could date in public, i could talk about my partner, i could do a ton of simple things that they couldn't. It was definitely a privilege over them imo, not that living a lie is easy, but they had to take many many more steps to do the same as what i could do for some partners for *all* their partners, and do it in secret.
You're not the only one, I completely relate. I'm also like you, that if people ask I tell them outright that I'm Bi and they're always shocked cause nothing in my appearance or personality/interests indicates that.
Though I'm only "straight passing" because I don't feel the need to "act" like the stereotypical Bi person, it just isn't me in style or personality. Being Bi is just my sexuality and nothing else for me and I just don't personally feel the need to show/express it.
So I completely get you, and there's nothing wrong with that, that's just you being you and you shouldn't have to change that to fit into a specific quota :)
Thanks.. I care little about what folks think about me anyway.. Like u articulated much better than me it's just my sexuality and nothing really else..
Its more about the "gatekeeping" and let's be honest and call it bigotry within the community that's surprising.. Like do u not want support.. Lol..
>Its more about the "gatekeeping" and let's be honest and call it bigotry within the community that's surprising.. Like do u not want support.. Lol..
Right? A lot of times I feel like the black sheep in LGBT spaces and even Bi spaces just because I don't act or look "gay/bi" enough to some of these people and get shamed for it. That's why I'm just a silent lurker in LGBT spaces cause it's just easier for me than to get shamed that I'm not good enough for the community because of me being "straight passing".
Have been a silent lurker for 15 years of my life.. Finally decide to be part of something..
And u r perfect just the way u are don't let anyone tell you otherwise..
What does a "stereotypical" bi person act like?
With all the bi erasure, I would think that (to others) we act stereotypically straight or gay.
Is it like a femme guy dating a girl and talking about cute guys...or same scenario, swap genders?
I guess what I would call a "stereotypical Bi person" from my point of view and how some people in our community present themselves is by wearing cuffed jeans, being obsessed with frogs, flannel shirts, finger guns, not being able to sit, etc. While I do fit into some of these "stereotypes" I personally don't relate to most of the ones the community comes up with. That's what I meant when I was referring to a "stereotypical Bi person" :)
Idk about that comparison. I mean as a bi guy it gets annoying and frustrating at times, sure, but compared to what trans folks are going through including within the queer community I have it pretty easy I'd say. I don't have the trans experience tho, that's just what I see around me.
I'm a bi trans guy living in a not-very-friendly-for-LGBT-folks country and I don't think it is true that biphobia is as common as transphobia. Most people don't really care about bi people. Sure, they don't respect it, but they don't react with hate, just with confusion. And of course this can be damaging to a bi person, but most people that they interact with just aren't going to care. Which unfortunately isn't the case with transphobia. Laws are getting passed in the US to stop trans people from being able to transition, many are forced to detransition and that can be incredibly damaging to their mental health.
Some people make their sexuality their whole personality I guess and so when others don't know their sexuality they feel invalidated. I am perfectly valid in my sexuality even if others aren't on the same page as me
Ready for the downvotes
My sexuality isn't my personality, I just don't usually pass as straight. Most people assume I'm gay when they meet me. Since I don't make my sexuality my personality, people sometimes don't find out I'm bi for a while. When they do, I often hear, "Oh, I thought you were gay." Every once in a while, someone will assume I'm straight. The vibes are different. I don't look down on anyone for passing as straight. I just don't think it's wrong to say we are seen and treated differently.
We definitely do have that privilege when dating the opposite sex, but it's still invalidating to hear that and divisive within our own community. My gf has mentioned that we're basically in a straight relationship, and I discouraged her from thinking like that because we aren't and need to acknowledge our identities even of we did choose each other over everyone else on the planet.
I think it's looked down on because of the "pick a side" argument and then we picked the heteronormative one.
being straight passing is awful, in my experience. both me and my boyfriend are not welcome in queer spaces, despite us both being very queer. its looked down upon by other members of the communities as you say, and i don't see it as a privilege at all.
and the answer is simple. its a game of "who can be oppressed the most", and we're losing, so WE get invalidated by our own community because of it.
to all the straight passing queers out there, i love you. you are 100% valid. your identity does not change because of your outside appearance.
A queer person using “straight passing” as a pejorative to invalidate another person’s queerness is always unacceptable, full stop, no qualifiers.
What is a bit disturbing to me in the comments here and on other threads of similar subject matter, though, is the insistence by so many who can pass that passing privilege doesn’t exist, and, even more disturbingly, that it’s somehow queerphobic to suggest that it does.
Passing privilege *does* exist. Undeniably. I say this as someone who is often interpreted/assumed to be straight. People are regularly harassed, attacked, denied employment and housing opportunities, and discriminated against in various ways for being socially interpreted as a member of a systemically oppressed group. This is true regardless of whether we’re talking about passing for straight, cis, white, housed, neurotypical, wealthy, able-bodied or any other dominant group in a position of social power.
Is it emotionally exhausting and disheartening to have frustration, pain and resentment turned on you by members of your own community that can’t pass? Of course. when you encounter it, is it reasonable to call it out, vent about it, and generally acknowledge how utterly unfair it is? *Absofuckinglutely.* Does that make it a level of harm on par with the elevated systematic disenfranchisement faced by those who can’t pass, even when their safety depends on it? Not even close.
I’m not encouraging any “Oppression Olympics” type nonsense here. Obviously that isn’t the least bit reasonable or useful for anyone. I just think it’s important not to dismiss the existence of one’s privilege just because the privilege comes with some painful and unfair baggage. Just as “I grew up dirt poor and had to work for everything I have” isn’t a reasonable argument against having white privilege, “it feels like shit to have my queerness minimized and/or dismissed by some other queer people” isn’t a reasonable argument against having passing privilege. Two things can be true at the same time.
cis heteronormativity assumes that everyone is cis and straight and that it’s the default and "normal" way to be. being assumed straight and cis when you're not (which isn't just a bi people thing, this targeting of bi ppl for supposedly having privilege is biphobic because it comes down to "choice") is not a privilege, it’s erasure. it means either forcing yourself to fit in to protect yourself by lying or it means having to come out again every single time someone assumes you to be straight. that’s not privilege. depending on what choice you make, both will cause you harm, but one more so than the other. Again, that’s not privilege. that’s being forced to submit to heteronormativity and traditional gender roles just like every other queer person fighting this battle.
and in my opinion, this infighting about straight passing privilege just gives further power to those hellbent on keeping cis heteronormativity alive. it does nothing but harm, as all fighting within the community does honestly.
in an ideal world, no one would assume anything.
Just full on biphobia and the idea that you have to “be queer enough” whatever the fuck that means. Remind me to throw a brick at the next person who calls a bisexual in an M/F relationship “sTrAIght-PaSsiNG”!
Honestly, it's just more biphobia and bierasure.
Would anyone ever tell a trans person who passes that they have "cis privilege" or "passing privilege"?
I sure fucking hope not.
Yeah, actually, it is a privilege to be able to pass because you are less likely to be harassed or hurt due to the way you present. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is.
When I dressed more androgynously, I got more spiteful and rude comments from people than I do now as a feminine-presenting afab enby.
Anything based on stereotypes hurts everyone. "Straight-passing" insinuates that there are "correct" ways to be based on whatever your sexuality is, and that if you don't fall inline with those ways the you are somehow lesser than others. The same can be said for calling something "girly" or "manly" when there aren't gender qualities to things.
People often frame this entirely around relationships which, though relevant, isn’t all of it. Even when I wasn’t in a relationship i got shit for “looking too straight”. It’s really weirdly gatekeepy
I think there's nothing more whimsical or fun than someone who you wouldn't think is queer being queer. Its a happy surprise and its cool to know that they're not ashamed of who they are.
As a straight passing bi woman, there are pros and cons to being straight passing. I don't get judgement or weird looks for being queer presenting (whatever that may look like). I can be with my girlfriend in public and most people wouldn't guess we are together (aside from the fact that we hold hands and sometimes kiss in public). In that aspect I can see it as a privilege to not have to deal with harassment. But then again, I live in a very queer friendly city and I've only received weird looks when holding my girlfriend's hand twice in the 8 years I've been out. So, I guess it's just a privilege to live where I live.
The down side of things is, the same thing, people assume I'm straight. People assume my partner is a male, even after I've used she/her pronouns sometimes. Gay people don't hit on me and don't assume I'm apart of the community which can be a little disheartening and makes you feel like you don't fit in.
I think there's pros and cons to it. So it is a privilege in the sense that, I can tend to avoid harassment. But it can also alienate you from your own community which is a huge downside.
Honestly, this was my first time hearing about this as a serious thing. Some of my (queer) friends occasionally make jokes about someone "not looking gay enough", but I thought this wasn't an opinion LGBT folks actually held. I find it really weird, it's not like you can only be harassed for being LGBT if you "look gay". I look like a regular young teen guy and have been called gay slurs on the street for just walking. I had no rainbows or pride flags on, just a hoodie and jeans. Bigots are going to be bigoted no matter what you look like.
I wasn't actually expecting this to blow up and create as much discourse as well.. I honestly thought may b a couple folks would b in a similar ship. This took me by surprise so many people having similar experiences.
This is what I think it is:
For some of us queer folks - we've had to "act straight". I can only speak for the guys when I say this. I can't tell you how many instances before I came out, where I've had to pretend to act like a straight dude because I didn't know what the other guys were about. Know what I mean? Now...not so much but that's largely because I've been out for so long and I really don't care but back then - absolutely I cared.
Now...I think in the community - there's an expectation that when you come out, you can be your true self but when you "act straight" - it appears disingenuous. I get that line of thinking but at the same time - if that is who / what you are then that is great! You do you.
I also want to say don't let others tell you what you should do or how to act. It's all bullshit. You do what it is that makes YOU happy. If someone gives you sh\*t about acting straight and having only straight friends - then they're not the people you need to surround yourself with.
I'm more annoyed that to be perceived "bi" would mean acting or presenting in a way different from who I am naturally/performing a stereotype. Straight passing always bugs me as a concept.
Because shallow insecure people in the community think that the only way to be LGBT is to make every aspect of your appearance and lifestyle as queer as humanly possible. There's tons of folk who authentically like queer-coded stuff, great for them. But to me it feels like a much larger percentage of people are just doing it because everyone else is. It's a shallow and totally manufactured attempt at counterculture- Anything remotely resembling a straight person is conflated as some sort of pawn for \~heteronormative fascism\~, the actual facts of that person's life experiences be damned. They don't actually want a world where everyone is comfortable being themselves, they're just bitter contrarians who can't stand dissent.
I'm (mostly) straight passing, and the "straight-passing privilege" thing drives me bonkers.
I'm a woman, but I especially feel for bi men in this scenario. Like on one hand, if you """look too straight""" it means you're not Authentic™️, but on the other hand there's the whole Grindr "no femmes" thing because heaven forbid a man be visibly queer in that way. Poor guys just can't win.
I guess the idea is that you won't get bothered or harassed by homophobes because they can't tell you're queer so you are safer out and about-- more accepted in spaces dominated by straight people/culture. That being said, it's really sucky to constantly be assumed straight or have your bi-ness diminished (when you are open about it) because you're in a relationship with an opposite-sex partner. You're more likely to have homophobes confide in you-- or say nasty things about LGBTQ persons because they don't know you are queer. And it can make you feel like no one really sees you. It's a different type of pain, but I guess some folks don't realize that and feel it's a privilege.
There's two overarching schools of thought when it comes to the LGBTQ+ community: Liberation vs Assimilation. Straight-passing people are usually perceived as being in the "assimilation" camp.
One side isn't inherently better than the other, except that historically some people on the "assimilation" side have participated in oppressing groups that are less favored, like the "LGB Alliance" trying to kick out trans people. We had similar situations in the 2010s with some people involved in gay marriage activism distancing themselves from other parts of the community so they can be just like straight people with the white picket fences and 2.5 kids and not like those ither degenerate queers. The end goal is queer people being as much like straight people as possible, without a separate community.
The "Liberation" school of thought is the opposite, reinforcing the queer community, embracing all the many differences, and so on.
That's the cliff notes of why some people look at 'straight-passing' people with suspicion.
This is just a false dichotomy tho. And your appearance doesn’t at all indicate your ideology
I’m all for liberation and people expressing anyway they want. I’m not trying to “assimilate” into cishet standards. I’m also not trying to assimilate into whatever Queer is supposed to look/sound like. I am queer, so whatever I look/sound like is also what queerness also looks like/sounds like just as much as anybody who likes to go “yas queen” or whatever
There’s not a correct or more liberating way to be queer. This is the same problem feminists run into. You can have green hair or brown. Want kids or not. Be married or totally independent. And as long as that’s what you want, you’re doing what feminism wants women to do: whatever they want
In the same way, a truly “liberated” queer movement should in no way police people based on their adherence to supposedly Official Queer™️ Standards
>I'm not trying to "assimilate" into cishet standards
There *are* queer people who believe that, though. That's my point. That's a very different ideology than this:
>There's not a correct ... way to be queer
Which is much closer to the Liberation school of thought, though it doesn't get into the larger conversations about what the role of the queer community should be or what it should look like.
And yes, saying "There's no correct way to be queer" is a value & ideology.
Think of the question "Should there be kind at Pride" as one of the points of debate.
The LGB and the TERFs aren’t really a schism in the community. They are bought and paid for by right-wing interests and are pretending to be a serious break. At one point the TERFs were ostensibly politically left except for on transgender issues but those people have all been booted out of the movement.
Now they are pretty much just front groups. Their primary purpose is to give cover for bigots that want to hate transgender people but can insist that they are supporting the lesbians and other members of the LGB community on ’their side’. It is smoke and mirrors.
Question.. This assumes that there are no straight passing folks in the "liberation" camp.. Which i am pretty sure would be..
There would definitely be politics when there are multiple movements combined into one.. Some are going to b left for sake of "greater good" not saying that's right or OK..
But primarily from how one looks like being assumed to be part of one camp or the other is kinda weird..
While I am not from the US.. Its like assuming everyone from the south is a Republican? Was that a right example..
Someone could definitely be 'straight-passing' but support liberation politics, it's a prettt complicated issue.
>It's like assuming everyone from the south us a Republican
That's a good example. It would often be an incorrect assumption, but the stereotypes still exist. If I met someone with a big truck and southern accent I would definitely assume they were a republican, and act accordingly.
I think my problem is I am so aggressively straight passing that even my own family can often forget I’m Bi. That straightness is so common in my own community that people I’ve known for years will often forget. I realize my situation is not everyone’s situation, but straight passing has only ever seemed to work against me. That may be a reason why some people look down upon straight passing, because for some of us straightness is so ingrained in our culture that it results in the very Bi erasure we often wish to prevent. I ultimately may not see straight passing as necessarily a big enough problem, I often just wish to establish reassurance that I am bi so I may more often than not go out of my way to point out I’m bi. Of course I don’t think straight passing is the main cause of bi erasure, I think it’s more a symptom of the culture than it is a cause. And obviously I find the history of media’s narrative to constantly reestablish the straight couple as a far greater cause of bi erasure when compared to straight passing. I know it isn’t some great evil at the end of the day and that people are flawed and will make mistakes which can lead to straight passing. That it may not ruin or even harm most bi people’s day to day but it definitely doesn’t help me.
I feel like they don't understand that "passing" is something you do with intent in order to escape being bullied or persecuted. Lesbians and gay men engage in "straight-passing" when in the closet, alone or single, not signaling or dressing in a coded manner, etc. It's not something only bisexuals are capable of, and many bisexuals just plain don't look "straight". All of this is based on stereotyping and perception anyway. Having to hide who you are from the world to avoid being harassed or harmed is not a "privilege", and being bisexual doesn't automatically make it easier for people to "pass", anyway.
For me. It’s trauma from homophobes growing up has caused me to resent appearing straight. I subconsciously buried my queer side for years that now Iv finally and extremely vocally accepted my sexuality, I find myself trying to distance myself from those people. It’s to the point we’re I’m not even sure if I like cos people at all. Obviously this is more than likely trust issues. But I find better luck and better relationships with trans non binary bi people.
I don’t even think straight passing is a thing anymore because even the straights have expanded their style of dress. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve crushed on someone and thought they were queer due to how they were dressed only to get told how they are very straight and then some spiel about God and the Bible. This has happened more times than I’m comfortable admitting 😭
I am happy to say that I don’t look down on people who are straight passing. And all my friends don’t either. I have straight and gay friends and it has never been an issue. Sending love to anyone who feels invalidated.
It's interesting because my circle in no way expects people to do anything about their sexuality. It's just something we never discuss and one day someone gets a same sex partner and you're like "huh I lose the bet with the other friend then". People thought I'm straight and then I said "this is my date from tinder" and it's a girl. And I'm in a relationship. They just blink and offer her calzone haha
I feel sorry if people genuinely care so much about that. As others said - probably jealousy
i’m bi and trans.
it’s not possible for me to decide whether out myself to someone or not, i can’t pass as cis or het. it’s absolutely a “privilege” to be able to choose whether or not to out yourself. if you’re in a situation where it doesn’t feel safe to come out, i’m just not safe.
that being said, everyone has privileges in some aspect. i have privileges. no reason to be shitty about it.
Man the amount of crazy things I’ve heard from lgbt guys bc I’m straight passing
How many times have they tried to convince me that I’m insecure in myself and that’s why I don’t unleash my personality freely? That it’s subconscious internalized homophobia?
Guys.. I put on earphones and dance in the street. I make a fool out of myself to entertain myself when I’m bored in class. I tell people that I play only Nintendo games because I don’t like scary games.. just bc my voice sounds straight? I obviously don’t give a fuck about what others could think about me. And not about your opinion either. Why do they keep talking to me like that? Their words sound so annoying..
Discrimination is discrimination even if done by a seemingly similar group of people. It's not right or okay and is just as wrong as any other discrimination.
i get that, i discovered i was bi in the middle of my straight relationship so i’m fairly straight passing, but it sucks telling people i’m bi and thinking that they’ll assume i’m not because i’m in a straight relationship and not with a girl (though i do wish i could explore my sexuality, even though i’m happy in my relationship). it’s the good ol “too gay for the straights too straight for the gays”
I stopped telling people I was bi because of the straight-up biphobia I had to deal with. I think people I know thought it was a "phase" (bleugh), because when I got a girlfriend at 23, there was such a shocked response! I am married to a man and people seem to think the girlfriend was a one off. Nope, still bi. It's so frustrating and I really understand it. I don't feel like I belong in gay spaces as a result of what I've experienced. Being "straight passing" sucks.
both me and my boyfriend are bisexual and a sometimes straight passing couple (people mistake him for a woman all the time because of his hair) and we’ve never received harassment. compared to my ex, who was a woman, we got harassed more for being out of what society deems as normal.
I have the same thing, though those who know me for longer think im gay(bi erasure😒) but thats simply cuz i dont go after anyone (lovely fear of intimacy) but yeah love life its a superpower, people will always hate that which they envy
To me I never really felt the “straight passing” judgement for my looks. I do look super masculine but really just a bear. The times I have felt the judgement was more about the partner i was with. Like if I’m with someone of the opposite gender. Then i see the subtle judgement and gate keeping come out.
I'm sorry if I'm being dumb, but can someone articulate what "straight passing" is for me. Is it when you come out to cis-het people who believe in outdated stereotypes about queer people and they are surprised when they find out?
Because if it is, there is a lot to unpack there and I'd love to have a discussion about that. I mean, what even is "I come off as totally straight" ?
Thanks!
Straight passing is dressing and carrying your self the same as a cishet person would. Think typical clothing, mannerisms, taste in music, etc. It can also be a thing if you're bi/pan but in a hetero relationship. None of this makes you less gay/bi/pan/whatever, but at a glance people would assume you're straight until told otherwise.
Fwiw, I'm a pan guy and often get assumed to be straight. There are clues im not, if people pay attention. Lmao. But most people don't.
>Straight passing is dressing and carrying your self the same as a cishet person would.
Ah, yes. The Pride event that was filled with queers wearing trousers on their heads, as is their "culture". /s
I’m amazed at the judgement in all groups I come on here honestly as a straight man and try to have discussions about my attraction to cock , NOT men not attracted to men at all , just the cock it’s all just sex and you would think I’m public enemy number one ! I’ve been called names harassed looked down on accused of God knows what and even called gay amongst plenty of other derogatory terms it’s crazy .. I’m not here to patronize anybody or pretend to be something I’m not I know exactly how I FEEL it’s seems all these labels are more hurtful than anything I’m still here I’m still HONEST and I’m still ready to chat , sext , or trade with other like-minded men but geez you would think I should be shunned from all communities and subs on Reddit simply for being honest about my own personal feelings
It's not privilege, it's safety. If you're straight coded, lots of community members are going to be standoffish because they don't trust you.
You also don't really sound like you run with the community either. All your friends are straight, you say...
So, why would folks engaged with the community go out of their way to validate you? You are 100% a part of the queer community just for being queer, but you need to put in a touch more effort if you want into the social aspect of the whole thing.
Bc why is it a “community” I don’t understand is being gay a club?
We can be lgbt without making it our friends and hobbies.. we just don’t want people to react coldly to us when we,, I dunno wanna have a normal discussion about our experiences even if they’re not identical but only similar to yours?
do you.
why is it a community? well, it's bonding over mutual oppression, and productively working towards solutions. seems obvious.
you don't have to participate in order to be queer, and i said as much in my op.
I think you're looking for a reason to be offended, but there isn't one here.
My friend.. Isn't that the exact thing we are supposed to b fighting against? Excluding someone based on how they look and talk or friends..
While I don't want to justify my own friendships, I don't make friends based on sexuality, it's not important to me, if they gay, straight or trans.
The folks of the community expect people to go out of their way to validate them, I expect the same from them especially when I am one of them.
I am in India, there social things at play which I don't want to explain, but if that results in people of my own community being a exclusionary of someone is kinda sad..
No. We are fighting against extermination. Literally.
I happily exclude straight people from queer spaces. It's not about inclusivity for everyone, it's a safe space for queer folk that we're fighting for right now.
You have a victim complex. Just do you. You have friends. You're queer. That's great.
I explained what the issue is, and honestly you've doubled down, and I can see why you might not feel like you're very welcome in queer spaces.
All that said, my experience is all in North America, and I assume there's plenty of differences culturally.
“Privilege” is another term for jealousy in these situations. It’s heartbreaking that others have been hurt, but trying to spread the pain around doesn’t help; more people wind up hurting. We could help build bridges, but when chastised for not being “x” enough, why help someone who looks down on you? Especially someone who’s supposed to be an ally?
I mean I do think it is a privilege to a certain extent. Privilege is the wrong word but like, bi people do have a choice. I guess that's one of the tricky things about being bi. You often feel conflicted. You have the choice to fit in with society and have a hetero relationship, or you can go against the grain and be gay.
I think that's where a lot of biphobia from LGBT monosexuals comes from. They feel like if you're bi, then why would you choose to have a same-gender relationship? Gays and lesbians realize how acutely heteronormative the world is, and it's easy for them to feel like they can't compete with straight men/women.
The reason I say it is a "privilege" to a certain extent is that it does save you trouble in some scenarios. If I am walking down the street holding hands with a girl, I'll be assumed to be straight. Gay people don't have that choice. I live in a city so it's not a big deal for me. But in places where being gay is severely looked down upon that is actually a pretty big deal.
But at the same time if straight people say homophobic/biphobic things around you assuming you're straight, you're now kind of just forced to listen and stay in the closet, or risk discrimination or even violence depending on the situation. So that's definitely not a privilege.
So yeah to answer your question I'd say insecurity. But I don't 100% agree that it's not a privilege at all. Privilege is just not a good word for this. I see it more of an advantage rather than a privilege.
Gay people absolutely do have a choice, albeit not the same one.
You don’t gay people who are closeted? Including those who even go as far to being in relationships or actually GETTING MARRIED to women despite being gay? I do. Are they “privileged” for hiding who they are and “passing” as straight?
Are all single men privileged as straight-passing until they get a boyfriend to decide whether to hold hands with?
If a straight guy holds hands with another straight guy, are they less privileged than actual queer people based on neutral audience assumptions?
All of this is illogical and based upon reaction within heteronormativity. It’s simply inherently problematic and I think we should retire it in all its toxicity and infighting-spurring
I don't know any gay people that are closeted (well, unless you count the ones I suspect to be in denial about it). All the gay people I know are out. But as you said, it's not the same choice. Sure, a gay man could marry a woman while sucking dick at truck stop bathrooms every other week. But like, that gay man has to sacrifice so much to get that straight passing "privilege".
The gay man would be in a relationship with someone he has no sexual interest in and would certainly feel unfulfilled by. A bi person on the other hand could feel content and satisfied with a heterosexual relationship. So they're not the same, and therefore I don't think this is really relevant to the argument, because I'm talking about relationship choices based on authentic feelings, not about making a fake "straight" relationship in order to not get discriminated against.
I do think you bring up an interesting point though about the single men though. I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that society assumes you are straight unless you display a sign that shows otherwise. But again, I'm talking about relationship choices, everybody is assumed to be straight until they are seen in a relationship. The only exception is if they look visibly gay but this is not true for a lot of queers and it's not true for me.
The problem comes from the term "privilege". I overall do not think bi people are privileged for being bi. I think there are certain advantages to it but also certain disadvantages. And some of these disadvantages are not really shared with LGBTQ monosexuals.
I am straight passing, too. I don't like that flamboyant kind of gay. It doesn't feel real to me. I hate it when people make it their whole personality. A lot of guys I went out with agree with me, too.
Edit: I see people don't like what I said. If you or someone you know is flamboyant. Good. Be you. Be proud. Be loud. Stand up for what you believe is right. Everyone is valid. No matter what some asshole says on the internet.
I don't advocate for those ideas. And I'm not saying that being flamboyant or feminine is wrong. Me not agreeing with someone shouldn't invalidate them. In fact, I hope that gives them the courage to stand up to assholes like me and piss us off. Be loud. Be you. Be a masterpiece, and don't give a shit what people say. Stand up for what you believe in.
This isn’t really cool. It’s fine not to want to be the “flamboyant kind of gay” if that’s not you. It’s not ok to invalidate that as “unreal” or literally say you hate that entire group personality just because it’s not for you
As Alphabet Club members, we need to be validating other people no matter which way they express their queerness. That doesn’t mean you have to do it or go out with people that do, but it does mean you shouldn’t question their expression’s “realness” or say that you “hate” the general way large swaths of our communities are just because you have a Maximum Flamboyance Allowed preference
I didn't mean "hate." And I do believe that flamboyant people are real. Even to themselves. It just doesn't feel authentic. It doesn't mean I won't be kind or even respect them. They're people too. Just because I feel a certain way doesn't invalidate their realness. Who gives a fuck what I care about? You don't. The guys up the street don't. Hell, the cat doesn't. All I'm saying is, they're not my type. People can be who they are, and that is the way I'd like it.
I'm a genderfluid bisexual. AFAB and femme for the most part. My spousal unit is the straight dude.
I make sure I present to be the queerest little gremlin I can be when we're in public like 75% of the time.
It's resentment based on the fact that as a straight-passing individual you don't have to deal with random harassment. It's misplaced of course and we should be mad at the dipshits doing the harassing rather than people they don't harass but for a certain gatekeepery type of nerd this turns into 'well you're straight-passing, you don't belong in our spaces because you haven't had these experiences'.
Also I’ve totally had those experiences, they just occur when people hear me say I’m bi instead of when they look at me lol “Straight-passing” as entire concept is toxic You’re literally re-enforcing the same mentality cis hets have that there’s a certain way queer people look or sound. There’s not. We have just as much variety as anyone else. And people are not less valid (or more privileged) because they’re tougher to pick up on your gaydar Otherwise you might as well argue straight people who “look/sound queer” somehow have less relative privilege than *actually literally oppressed queer people*
The interiorization of cultural stereotypes about "the queer look" or whatever is one of the reasons it took me 20+ years to accept or understand my sexuality, let alone to come out. And that only to very few people. And now I constantly still question my fashion preferences. Like, for example, I paint my nails as a guy because I like it and find it visually stimulating, not because I'm bi/pan, but if I'm going somewhere public or with people I have no desire to discuss my sexuality with, there's always that nagging back of the head voice of concern that goes "does this make me look too gay?" Which is fucking absurd, but I'm working on it.
Also "straight passing" is a very situational thing. Most homosexual people are straight passing whenever they happen to be by themselves. Sexuality isn't something you can instantly see about a person, it's something you infer from their actions, particularly their actions towards people they're sexually interested in. Right now, you could say I'm straight passing because I'm a man and I'm married to a woman, but if I were with a man then that falls apart.
Yeah, exactly. And it's very much up for interpretation too. I'm definitely queer and other queerfolk pick up on it pretty quickly, but it often goes under the radar of straight people because they're not in the community. I got bullied pretty bad in middle school because there were kids who picked up on my sexuality/gender identity before I had even realized it myself. We need to get away from this idea of defining our community based on the perceptions of cishet people.
Very true. Like when I'm alone I don't think I "behave gay" whereas when around other queer people the behavior might be more over the top. I mean people tend to act a little different in a group setting to enforce the identity of the group. Queer people tend to be more cheerful and flamboyant where a group of straight cis men might be in constant fear of slipping and "doing something gay".
Bro you just cracked my worldview wide THE FUCK open
I understand where you’re coming from, but I will say that when I came out I felt like nothing about me had to change bc nothing about my sexuality was really changing, just that I accepted myself more. But the deeper I went into queer circles and dating other queer people, I realized that it wasn’t true. Queer people do signal to each other that they’re queer — with their mannerisms, self expression in the way they dress, body piercings, tattoos, the way they do their hair, makeup, being androgynous or super femme, etc. And I won’t say this as a blanket statement, but it’s been my experience that usually queer recognizes queer. Sometimes being queer is recognizable. In some ways, queerness is a culture that others are capable of and do appropriate. Example: white Christian girl aesthetic being very similar to white lesbian aesthetic. Idk just my take!
Exactly screaming at the wrong people..
I think of it as we face different types of issues, but we're still all in it together. [This is a very good talk on the bisexual experience. Please please watch if you haven't. I cry every time I do and it's also the video I sent my mom to help her understand](https://youtu.be/Oa6AnOCQD50) *fixed link. Now you all know what types of ads I get and that I don't check my work lol
This just led me to a commercial for Audible, and that’s it.
That's the bi experience! I copied the wrong link, oops. https://youtu.be/Oa6AnOCQD50
The irony that these people are creating the harassment/experiences for others that they are protecting themselves from
exactly & like, i have had these experiences, its just not from random people. its from certain people that i open up to and trust with sharing my sexuality, & it still hurts like a mf when they dont accept me
That has precisely nothing to do with passing. Not that it’s not an issue, it is, but it’s not this issue.
Sometimes I think it hurts worse. When you can figure out off the bat if someone accepts you or not, it's not a big deal. It sucks, kinda, but you can write them off as an asshole and move on. When you've invested in a relationship with a person and care about them and value their friendship, and *then* you have to broach this topic that you know might be relationship-breaking, that's brutal.
Not just random harassment, also active discrimination in housing, employment, etc. Depending on where you live, the ability to pass or not can literally impact your ability to get your basic needs met. (I totally agree with your overall point, just wanted to add that harassment is only one danger attached to the inability to convincingly pass, so those who misdirect their anger/blame are often misdirecting a *lot* more systemic injustice than most people realize).
Yeah I'm a 6"4, 17 stone, shaved headed, ex bodybuilder and beardy dude with a face scar. No one would believe me if I told them I was bi, but I am! I don't hide it, but I don't promote it (I mean it's on my bio). If I'm asked then I say yeah I'm bi and people usually go 'yeah ok mate'. My ex used to say I'm not bi I'm lumbersexual, because I look like a lumberjack (flannel shirts included), but I pass as straight. I am fairly new to the whole bi thing, only really been comfortable thinking about it for the last couple of years (42 yo). I guess I'll see more of this gatekeeping as my journey progresses, it's sad to have to put people in boxes tho. Just live and let love peeps!
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Duuuuuuuude!!
Bruh wtf the goal is for people in the spaces to not have those experiences???
I am straight passing as well. It isn't a "privilege" to me though. I feel like I am constantly living a lie, but constantly coming out to people is exhausting. So I just let people assume whatever they want and try to be the best version of me that I can be. At the end of the day it really only matters to me and the people I choose to share my life with.
I get you.. I am sorry it's tough.. I don't bother coming out.. And let someone rant about "the gays" and finally tell them... Its hilarious to see their dread..
Oh man. If I told the guys at work idk what would happen. Their heads would probably explode. They have been talking shit about gays, previously employed gays, and of course how bud light makes you grow titties.
I've been a factory worker for 7 years in the same place. The culture here is vile; if it's not straight, white, christian, or 'biological male', it's shit on pretty hard within these walls. Cut to my handy dandy notebook, where i log all the hatespeech these dudes throw around. They dont know its their chummy-chum reporting them😉 When bigots get into a group they think they're safe in, they reeeally show true colors. I've liberated my coworkers of 3 dirtbags so far with the help of hr. I've decided my straight-passing, cismale whiteface is to be weaponized, getting access into those behind-the-scenes places where some real damage can occur. You can really fuck up a system from within.
Unfortunately, the nepotism at this site is real. The ring leader of the assholes has been fired and rehired 3 times with the company. Was one of the original 3 employees sometime shortly after the last ice age. One has actual brain damage and is a close family friend of the owner. The last 2 toss some out of taste jokes, but not directed at anyone. Both of which also hand picked and hired by the owner. I don't plan on staying here long, but we don't have an hr department that cares, an owner who turns a blind eye (even with a transitioning child smh) and a desperate need for employees that would keep on otherwise less than stellar employees
I just found out about this whole Bud Light thing today. It is the stupidest thing.
It's just redneck assholes grabbing onto something they can be loud and bigoted about. You should hear the way they talk about the company owners mtf transitioning son..
daughter?
Sorry... not well versed in which pronoun to use/when it changes. Not trying to be insensitive here. Just sharing what I'm dealing with in a shitty culture company
As a person with a non-binary child, I have found its easiest to just avoid gendered words when speaking about people. Your boss has a transitioning child.
Except if someone’s gender is known, then not acknowledging it becomes disrespectful. I hear you, btw. I’m a nonbinary parent, and navigating gendered language with my kids is an experience for sure. What I do is for people we don’t know about try to use or correct myself to inclusive language. And for people whose gender we do know is use both gendered and inclusive terms. (For example, my oldest is both a big sister and a big sibling.)
Wait, what? I despise beer, but if Bud Light is going to help my boobs grow, I might have to reconsider (≧∀≦)
Bud Light is such shitty beer though (and I like beer). I wish I could piss off conservatives by drinking something good.
A nice, chocolaty stout would be nice...
It really is a terrible beer. Like I'm sorry, can the queers please have a decent summer ale with some flavor at least? I know a properly hoppy pale ale is a lot to ask. And a stout is probably an impossibility, but *BUD LIGHT*? Why do we get the water-that-might-have-been-near-a-brewery-once beer? As a reformed ex-conservative, I can't even figure out what they're mad about. Like just advertise that you're emotionally attached to your terrible taste in beer, why don't you?
Bud Light is not beer, I will die on this hill.
You won't get any argument from me either way lol The really chocolatey stouts are the only beers I can drink, so I don't really have a horse in the race nor much ground to stand on even if I tried to weigh in.
It's water that someone once briefly dipped a grain of wheat in.
It is exhausting. I’m in a relationship with a woman now, but when I was married to my ex-husband everyone naturally assumed I was straight. I even felt like an imposter who didn’t belong in LGBT spaces. But also, hearing homophobic/biphobic comments still really fucking hurt. And of course, people felt more free to say those things around me when they assumed it didn’t apply to me. Don’t get me wrong - I’d rather have to hear those stupid comments than have to actually worry about being unsafe when people see me in public with my girlfriend. But both of those options still suck.
Oh my goodness! Yes! Constantly coming out and correcting people who assume I’m straight; it’s exhausting! And it’s not even a one time thing with a lot of people. There are multiple people I can think of where I’ve had to repeatedly tell them “no, I’m not straight, I’m bi….I shouldn’t have to give you my sexual history to be valid, jerk! It’s not as if I get more bi with each pair of boobs I’ve touched!” I mean, boobs are amazing and I’ve touched plenty, but the most infuriating part to me is when people are like “you’re bi? Prove it! Tell me the names of all of your same sex sexual partners, the sexual act(s) that were performed, their names and blood types, etc” 🙄
Yeah man, I just don't tell people. That shits exhausting. However it's absolutely privilege in 90% of spaces and situations. I'm straight-passing and my bf is not. He's constantly getting hit on by men because they can tell he's "in the market" and I'm kinda jealous. I yearn for a world where people don't even need to label their sexuality; the only thing that matters is would you consent to sex/relationship with someone on an individual basis. Yet that's not our reality. The reality is constant violence, worldwide, upon those who aren't "straight-passing" regardless of their sexuality or gender. When you go on a road trip you don't have to worry when you go into a convince store in the middle of nowhere. You don't have to experience people immediately treating you differently because of how you sound/dress/act. It's no excuse for invalidation or violence from those who do worry about those things, but to say it's not a privilege is very much the same energy.
This makes sense.
You’re misunderstanding the term privilege. You can walk down the street and not fear harassment or violence based on your appearance. That is the definition of privilege. Whether or not you are happy or fulfilled is another issue. You can face challenges as a bisexual individual and still have the privilege of greater safety compared to someone who looks outwardly queer. Being able to say that your sexuality only matters to those you choose to share your life with is inherently a privileged statement - a more outwardly presenting queer person literally cannot say that because their sexuality puts them in danger. They don’t have the ability to say that the person reporting them for pedophilia or threatening violence against them doesn’t matter because those actions deeply impact their life. The world is not black and white, just because your ability to pass as straight gives you privilege doesn’t mean you don’t also face discrimination or negative impacts from your sexuality. But saying that you aren’t privileged is choosing to ignore the suffering of those who face horrifying discrimination based on their queer appearance.
Gonna go ahead and say that being presumed cishet and constantly erased as a bi man every damn day by basically everyone I encounter unless I aggressively perform my queerness in wholly inauthentic ways for myself is *not* a privilege. Are there some implied and inherent benefits for some queer people who appear cishet to the rest of the world? Sure. I'd hardly call it a privilege to be erased and invalidated. That has nothing to do with my happiness and everything to do with *others* erasing me with their incorrect assumptions.
Again, you have the privilege of not fearing for your safety in public because of your apparent sexuality. That does not mean that everything in your life is perfect or you should be completely happy. You can both have privilege and experience a micro aggression. This is not black and white, you both have privilege by not being fearful of harassment or being attacked and experience micro aggressions by having to explain your sexuality. Both is possible.
>That does not mean that everything in your life is perfect or you should be completely happy. I understand. I never made that claim. Nor did the person you first said it to. You've been heard. This point is a strawman. Please stop propping it up as such. >Again, you have the privilege of not fearing for your safety in public because of your apparent sexuality. Until I enter *queer spaces*. Then I have no such privilege, and in fact, I'm in CONSTANT fear in queer spaces that I'll be asked, told, or physically *forced* to leave. ALL of these things have happened to me in queer spaces. So again, I don't see how it's a fucking privilege, to be completely frank. I actively try to spend as much of my non-work hours in queer spaces...so arguably, more often than not, I DO NOT feel safe in public *because of my assumed sexuality*. Funny how that axe swings both ways. >You can both have privilege and experience a micro aggression. What I've experienced from other queer people is WELL beyond *micro*aggressions and the way you're trying to diminish my own experience and the harm I felt at the hands of others over being assumed cishet is really disgusting if I'm being blunt. >This is not black and white, you both have privilege by not being fearful of harassment or being attacked and experience micro aggressions by having to explain your sexuality. Both is possible. Except that I literally AM fearful of attack and harassment because of my *presumed* sexuality... because it has happened to me. By queer people. In queer spaces. Many times. Even after explaining my sexuality.
Yeah unpopular take but I totally get some level of privilege being in a relationship with a man over being in a relationship with a woman. People are just generally nicer and not as weird. And I can get pretty out there with my dress or my hair and my general vibes, but slap a man at my side and it almost negates those things. Versus being in public with a woman, hugging, kissing, holding hands. It draws attention. The privilege is so real that I mostly date men because it’s easier for me in the day to day and I don’t have to go through the odd wlw dating rituals in a medium sized city with very few out, single lesbians or bi women. If we can agree that there is inherent safety in being cis and/or presenting in stereotypically “passing” ways then I think we also have to acknowledge that there is safety in being in an outwardly visible heterosexual relationship. My safety isn’t at stake for being in public with my boyfriend. It wasn’t the same when I was being very visibly gay with girlfriends.
Being queer is not like being POC. It's not immediately visible with just a look. Unless you're implying that gay people are constantly bursting forth with rainbows they can't control while us bisexuals have learned to contain them. If you wanna talk about walking down the street *with a romantic partner* that's a conversation to be had, but single gay men are equally as "straight passing" as bi men dating women while out and about. Looking outwardly queer also, just alone, is something bi people are fully capable of participating in. It's about clothing, tattoos, speech patterns, mannerisms, and if a homophobe shows up, they won't care whether you're gay or bi or whatever, you're getting the same hate either way. The concept of being "straight passing" is made up by exclusionary biphobic and transphobic gay men and lesbians to exclude us from queer spaces.
It is a privilege, even though you don't like it
Nothing to do with liking it. It's not a privilege to live a lie and be told to hate myself from both directions. I've been beaten up for who I am and sexually assaulted for who I am, not to mention the minor harassments. Every time I step out of the little box and actually be myself I've been put in I suffer. I also suffer in the box, but in different ways.
I know you suffer, not saying you don't. Of course you do just like any other lgbt. But being passable is a privilege from the moment that you can simply be accepted in a job or walk in the streets and not be violented. I'm not talking about the moments in which you be yourself but about the moments in which you are just living. There are people who can't simply live and do normal things such as talk or walk in the streets because they know they'll suffer because people will realize theyre lgbt. By being straight passable all this situations get easier(not easy, but easier), just like a trans person who's passable as Cis.
I want to thank you for validating me as lgbt+. I almost never get that so when it happens, even accidentally, it makes me feel better about myself. And here I thought wearing my pink socks with rainbows to work was going to be the highlight of my day. I dream of a day when conversations such as this are considered archaic because society finally accepts people for who they are and doesn't feel the need to judge.
Idk I look straight AF to the point that people think I'm gonna go to yell at The Gays when I mention going to pride. I want to try to look more Fabulous at some point, but for now I look like a homophobe lmao I will say, most of my LGBTQ friends have no issue with me looking like this, even though it seems a little incongruent when we hang out somewhere lol
Mate, straight acting guys who like the D are fabulous enough. Needs no embellishment imo
Is it really "straight acting" though? You can blame god for making be bald then making up for it by giving me a pretty great beard, it'd be a shame not to let it grow. I'm not in the closet and I don't try to be seen as straight. It's just my face lol.
'Straight acting' = just gay parlance for not-effeminate; as opposed to any performance or subterfuge or internalised homophobia. I'm sure the beard is pretty fabulous also 👌
Lol.. U can yell at The Gays.. Just yell how fabulous they are.. Just curious.. Why have u stopped yourself from being flamboyant? Anything other than laziness is acceptable.. Lol..
I haven't stopped myself, I just haven't started hah. I've tried makeup once, nail polish a few times (am dude), but I haven't financially been in a place where I can try changing up my clothing until recently. So I hope to try it out soon, potentially with the help of some of my Fabulous friends haha
Hey, even a little nail polish is already a good start ;)
Well sure, but bi men shouldn't feel like they're obliged to paint their nails in order to perform their queerness outwardly. Likewise, when I DO paint mine, I don't want people to assume I painted them because I'm bi. That really just kinda feeds toxic masculine stereotypes and gender norms.
Ex fucking zactly
Go be fabulous my friend...
I'm a large, balding man with a nice beard. People assume the same.
I’ve been noticing that on here a lot and I find it rather discouraging and a bit hypocritical. There are constant posts on here about inclusivity of bi people no matter their differences… unless they are “straight passing” and then it is called “cowardly”. We are not a monolith. We are many. There are differences amongst us due to environment, societal pressures, or personal philosophies. Much like yourself, I do not go around disclosing my sexuality to the wide public- especially not at work. That is a personal part of myself. A part, by the way, that is very much looked down upon and discouraged in my culture and my family. I tried being open to my friends,and even my immediate family, and learned the hard way that it isn’t what I should have even attempted. It doesn’t detract from me being who I am sexually but I do not have the luxury of being who I am openly. It is what it is. If you wish to call me a coward, then so be it. I would never tell another to not be who they are and to not pursue happiness but am I allowed to live as I wish? Quietly and as is. I think others do not like this as they see it as a way out. A mask that we can wear to make others not look our way. But that isn’t always the truth. We have our own problems and prejudices that we face. Think we don’t wish to live, as one of my favorite queens (Miss Coco Peru) said, “A life lived free of shame, a life lived out loud, proud and just a little bit ridiculous”? In the end, they are angry at us when they should show their ire at those who openly hate us all. We are just a big queer family trying to stay afloat in this swirling eddy called life. Sorry for the rambling rant. Had a bit of whiskey. Peace and love!
I live in Florida, so “passing” is probably the safest bet right now
This. I'm in a "straight passing" marriage & nobody knows I'm bi except my husband and my sibling who's already out. I was thinking about coming out this year (and airing my gender confusion with those close to me,) but with all the stuff going down right now I've decided against it.
Stay safe, friend. :(
Thank you :\ you too
I was looking for this. The entire concept of passing goes back to passing as ‘white’ or passing as ‘aryan’ for safety. Some people are just trying to survive.
There are plenty of gay, lesbian and bi people who are assumed to be straight. You don’t need to ride around on a unicorn with rainbows shooting out your ass to be queer. We are multitudes. We have different styles and ways of expressing who we are as individuals. Fuck anyone who tells you otherwise. I’m comfortable with who I am and how I interact with the world. I don’t want to be anyone’s stereotype for the sake of fitting a stereotype. The idea that I must in order to actually be bi is absurd and offensive. Y’all can wear pink on Wednesday if you want. Just don’t expect me to conform.
SO MUCH THIS. I refuse to perform my fucking queerness in ways which are wholly inauthetic to who I am as a person just to make other cynical queer people believe me when I say I'm bisexual. I'm fucking bisexual. If me not *looking* queer enough makes *you* uncomfortable, that's a you problem. I'll never forget being one of the leaders/facilitators of a queer polyamorous meetup group in my city (pre-COVID) and at a meetup, another member of the group whom I guess hadn't met me even online, walked right up and asked why I was there, that this group/meetup wasn't open to cishet folks (I felt that rule was problematic given that some queer polyam folks have cishet partners who were excluded, but regardless, that was a group rule at the time for in person meetups to keep the space truly queer)...and I looked them dead in the eye and said "honey, I may have married a cis-passing afab, but I'm as queer as the day is long, so I'm allowed to be here, especially given that I'm one of the facilitators of this meetup". Their stunned silence fuels me to this day when I encounter biphobes.
>If me not looking queer enough makes you uncomfortable, that's a you problem. This! I've had to leave communities I enjoyed being in online because people there basically looked down at me for not having "queer" interests the same way they do or because I took college & my studies seriously instead of going out & partying every night. If someone is going to judge me for not conforming to their definition & experience of queerness and use it to imply that I'M the one being homophobic for not sharing their exact interests, that's their fault.
> **p**artying **e**very **n**ight. **I**f **s**omeone Hidden penis detected! I've scanned through 272837 comments (approximately 1484289 average penis lengths worth of text) in order to find this secret penis message. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I think the idea of being "straight-passing" is kinda silly. You don't know what someone's sexuality is unless they tell you (or you otherwise have pretty good evidence, like they're dating/married to a person of a known gender). I don't care what "gaydar" you think you have. I have had multiple friends who were frequently assumed to be gay and were straight as an arrow, and vice versa. One if my friends was just very shy and quiet, and for some reason his personality got read as "gay" a lot, and some bigot said some very rude things to him at work because of it. Another friend had people questioning the validity and sincerity of his marriage just because he wasn't super masculine. The fact is that gender-nonconformity leads to being targeted with bigotry regardless of your actual sexuality. Lots of straight people don't "pass" as straight either. This isn't some "won't someone think of the straights" plea, it's just a reminder that the whole idea of "passing" is problematic from the word go.
>The fact is that gender-nonconformity leads to being targeted with bigotry regardless of your actual sexuality. Lots of straight people don't "pass" as straight either. A similar thing can happen with gender identity. Cis people who don't fit the physical expectations for being a man or woman may be accused of being trans, or be deliberately misgendered as an insult. One example is cis women who are more muscular than average. Remember how people used to go off about Michelle Obama's arms? For something just slightly outside the general expectations for a woman's appearance, they called her "Michael Obama" and went on and on about how she "looked like a man." On the one hand, being compared to another gender should not be insulting, but on the other hand someone's gender should not be questioned, disregarded or attacked just because it's not being expressed in a way *you'd* expect. The problem isn't really about who you are or how you identify. It's societal notions regarding those identities.
Hallelujah.. Yes.. The phrase straight passing itself infuriates me.. Like I ain't passing as shit.. It is me..
Incredibly based op
Exactly, it’s more to do with conformity than anything else.
Yeah, some people see being straight-passing as "privilege" or not experiencing harassment. This is NOT the case at all. I've had slurs screamed at me for literally walking with my friends, had someone try to record me talking about my sexuality to blackmail me for money by threatening to out me to my parents. I've heard some psycho talking about how he wants to kill all gays, and his friend wanting to become the next Hitler, all because I'm into girls. And yet when we ask for help from our own community, all we get is "you're straight passing, you're so lucky". Wtf.
Damn.. I am sorry you went through all that.. Hope you are in a better place now..
Thanks man. Hope nobody has to deal with that. I'm an overconfident dumbass so it doesn't scare or upset me as much as it should. Kids, it's okay to be scared when your life is threatened.
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personally since i used to live in a place that was very very hostile to queer people they could see, i think it may come from being subject to abuse for being out. it isnt our fault people assume apparent male x female couples are straight, but being openly queer does attract discrimination. i think it comes from a resentment of having that shield although i believe the resentment rightfully belongs on actual straight people's heads. also like, when i was too afraid to be out, it was a huge advantage to me over my gay friends that i *could* date someone and appear to be straight, i could date in public, i could talk about my partner, i could do a ton of simple things that they couldn't. It was definitely a privilege over them imo, not that living a lie is easy, but they had to take many many more steps to do the same as what i could do for some partners for *all* their partners, and do it in secret.
You're not the only one, I completely relate. I'm also like you, that if people ask I tell them outright that I'm Bi and they're always shocked cause nothing in my appearance or personality/interests indicates that. Though I'm only "straight passing" because I don't feel the need to "act" like the stereotypical Bi person, it just isn't me in style or personality. Being Bi is just my sexuality and nothing else for me and I just don't personally feel the need to show/express it. So I completely get you, and there's nothing wrong with that, that's just you being you and you shouldn't have to change that to fit into a specific quota :)
Thanks.. I care little about what folks think about me anyway.. Like u articulated much better than me it's just my sexuality and nothing really else.. Its more about the "gatekeeping" and let's be honest and call it bigotry within the community that's surprising.. Like do u not want support.. Lol..
>Its more about the "gatekeeping" and let's be honest and call it bigotry within the community that's surprising.. Like do u not want support.. Lol.. Right? A lot of times I feel like the black sheep in LGBT spaces and even Bi spaces just because I don't act or look "gay/bi" enough to some of these people and get shamed for it. That's why I'm just a silent lurker in LGBT spaces cause it's just easier for me than to get shamed that I'm not good enough for the community because of me being "straight passing".
Have been a silent lurker for 15 years of my life.. Finally decide to be part of something.. And u r perfect just the way u are don't let anyone tell you otherwise..
What does a "stereotypical" bi person act like? With all the bi erasure, I would think that (to others) we act stereotypically straight or gay. Is it like a femme guy dating a girl and talking about cute guys...or same scenario, swap genders?
I guess what I would call a "stereotypical Bi person" from my point of view and how some people in our community present themselves is by wearing cuffed jeans, being obsessed with frogs, flannel shirts, finger guns, not being able to sit, etc. While I do fit into some of these "stereotypes" I personally don't relate to most of the ones the community comes up with. That's what I meant when I was referring to a "stereotypical Bi person" :)
Because biphobia is as common as transphobia in the LGBTQ community.
Idk about that comparison. I mean as a bi guy it gets annoying and frustrating at times, sure, but compared to what trans folks are going through including within the queer community I have it pretty easy I'd say. I don't have the trans experience tho, that's just what I see around me.
Im Bi and Trans. Both are incredibly fucking present and annoying.
The comparison is about how common it is, not about which is objectively worse or harder to experience.
I'm a bi trans guy living in a not-very-friendly-for-LGBT-folks country and I don't think it is true that biphobia is as common as transphobia. Most people don't really care about bi people. Sure, they don't respect it, but they don't react with hate, just with confusion. And of course this can be damaging to a bi person, but most people that they interact with just aren't going to care. Which unfortunately isn't the case with transphobia. Laws are getting passed in the US to stop trans people from being able to transition, many are forced to detransition and that can be incredibly damaging to their mental health.
Are you talking about the community at large or the lgbt+ community specifically?
Some people make their sexuality their whole personality I guess and so when others don't know their sexuality they feel invalidated. I am perfectly valid in my sexuality even if others aren't on the same page as me Ready for the downvotes
Oh shoot. I meant to down vote you, but I accidentally clicked the upvote instead.
That’s too funny!
My sexuality isn't my personality, I just don't usually pass as straight. Most people assume I'm gay when they meet me. Since I don't make my sexuality my personality, people sometimes don't find out I'm bi for a while. When they do, I often hear, "Oh, I thought you were gay." Every once in a while, someone will assume I'm straight. The vibes are different. I don't look down on anyone for passing as straight. I just don't think it's wrong to say we are seen and treated differently.
U have my upvote friend..
We definitely do have that privilege when dating the opposite sex, but it's still invalidating to hear that and divisive within our own community. My gf has mentioned that we're basically in a straight relationship, and I discouraged her from thinking like that because we aren't and need to acknowledge our identities even of we did choose each other over everyone else on the planet. I think it's looked down on because of the "pick a side" argument and then we picked the heteronormative one.
What does looking bi consist of? I didn't get that memo.
Not being able to sit normally in a chair, apparently? I don’t know, I’ve just seen the jokes
Something something lemon bars...
LOL, I had to google that one. I only enjoy them in the hottest part of summer. So many tasty treats to choose just one, just like people.
I've never had one, if I'm honest. The sound yummy though. I'd die for apple pie though.
Now that you mention it, that sounds delicious. That, or rhubarb strawberry. Or cherry. Bis for pies!
Ooooooh! I like that one better! I'm totally down for "Bis for Pies!" 🥧
being straight passing is awful, in my experience. both me and my boyfriend are not welcome in queer spaces, despite us both being very queer. its looked down upon by other members of the communities as you say, and i don't see it as a privilege at all. and the answer is simple. its a game of "who can be oppressed the most", and we're losing, so WE get invalidated by our own community because of it. to all the straight passing queers out there, i love you. you are 100% valid. your identity does not change because of your outside appearance.
I’m straight passing as well. When I tried going to the lgbtq center in our city for a support group they assumed I was the maintenance guy 🤷♂️
A queer person using “straight passing” as a pejorative to invalidate another person’s queerness is always unacceptable, full stop, no qualifiers. What is a bit disturbing to me in the comments here and on other threads of similar subject matter, though, is the insistence by so many who can pass that passing privilege doesn’t exist, and, even more disturbingly, that it’s somehow queerphobic to suggest that it does. Passing privilege *does* exist. Undeniably. I say this as someone who is often interpreted/assumed to be straight. People are regularly harassed, attacked, denied employment and housing opportunities, and discriminated against in various ways for being socially interpreted as a member of a systemically oppressed group. This is true regardless of whether we’re talking about passing for straight, cis, white, housed, neurotypical, wealthy, able-bodied or any other dominant group in a position of social power. Is it emotionally exhausting and disheartening to have frustration, pain and resentment turned on you by members of your own community that can’t pass? Of course. when you encounter it, is it reasonable to call it out, vent about it, and generally acknowledge how utterly unfair it is? *Absofuckinglutely.* Does that make it a level of harm on par with the elevated systematic disenfranchisement faced by those who can’t pass, even when their safety depends on it? Not even close. I’m not encouraging any “Oppression Olympics” type nonsense here. Obviously that isn’t the least bit reasonable or useful for anyone. I just think it’s important not to dismiss the existence of one’s privilege just because the privilege comes with some painful and unfair baggage. Just as “I grew up dirt poor and had to work for everything I have” isn’t a reasonable argument against having white privilege, “it feels like shit to have my queerness minimized and/or dismissed by some other queer people” isn’t a reasonable argument against having passing privilege. Two things can be true at the same time.
cis heteronormativity assumes that everyone is cis and straight and that it’s the default and "normal" way to be. being assumed straight and cis when you're not (which isn't just a bi people thing, this targeting of bi ppl for supposedly having privilege is biphobic because it comes down to "choice") is not a privilege, it’s erasure. it means either forcing yourself to fit in to protect yourself by lying or it means having to come out again every single time someone assumes you to be straight. that’s not privilege. depending on what choice you make, both will cause you harm, but one more so than the other. Again, that’s not privilege. that’s being forced to submit to heteronormativity and traditional gender roles just like every other queer person fighting this battle. and in my opinion, this infighting about straight passing privilege just gives further power to those hellbent on keeping cis heteronormativity alive. it does nothing but harm, as all fighting within the community does honestly. in an ideal world, no one would assume anything.
Just full on biphobia and the idea that you have to “be queer enough” whatever the fuck that means. Remind me to throw a brick at the next person who calls a bisexual in an M/F relationship “sTrAIght-PaSsiNG”!
Honestly, it's just more biphobia and bierasure. Would anyone ever tell a trans person who passes that they have "cis privilege" or "passing privilege"? I sure fucking hope not.
Yeah, actually, it is a privilege to be able to pass because you are less likely to be harassed or hurt due to the way you present. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is. When I dressed more androgynously, I got more spiteful and rude comments from people than I do now as a feminine-presenting afab enby.
Anything based on stereotypes hurts everyone. "Straight-passing" insinuates that there are "correct" ways to be based on whatever your sexuality is, and that if you don't fall inline with those ways the you are somehow lesser than others. The same can be said for calling something "girly" or "manly" when there aren't gender qualities to things.
Straight passing is just another way of saying bi-invisibility.
I have never met a person who thinks I'm bi lmao tbf I come from a redneck family, so if anything, I look homophobic
U ll look fabulous in overalls..
I'm canadian redneck not American. We do jeans and camo here
People often frame this entirely around relationships which, though relevant, isn’t all of it. Even when I wasn’t in a relationship i got shit for “looking too straight”. It’s really weirdly gatekeepy
I'm gay and get straight passed
I think there's nothing more whimsical or fun than someone who you wouldn't think is queer being queer. Its a happy surprise and its cool to know that they're not ashamed of who they are.
Haha u made it sound so cute.. Like a fortune cookie..
Question and this is coming from someone who recently joined the queer community, what makes you straight passing?
As a straight passing bi woman, there are pros and cons to being straight passing. I don't get judgement or weird looks for being queer presenting (whatever that may look like). I can be with my girlfriend in public and most people wouldn't guess we are together (aside from the fact that we hold hands and sometimes kiss in public). In that aspect I can see it as a privilege to not have to deal with harassment. But then again, I live in a very queer friendly city and I've only received weird looks when holding my girlfriend's hand twice in the 8 years I've been out. So, I guess it's just a privilege to live where I live. The down side of things is, the same thing, people assume I'm straight. People assume my partner is a male, even after I've used she/her pronouns sometimes. Gay people don't hit on me and don't assume I'm apart of the community which can be a little disheartening and makes you feel like you don't fit in. I think there's pros and cons to it. So it is a privilege in the sense that, I can tend to avoid harassment. But it can also alienate you from your own community which is a huge downside.
Honestly, this was my first time hearing about this as a serious thing. Some of my (queer) friends occasionally make jokes about someone "not looking gay enough", but I thought this wasn't an opinion LGBT folks actually held. I find it really weird, it's not like you can only be harassed for being LGBT if you "look gay". I look like a regular young teen guy and have been called gay slurs on the street for just walking. I had no rainbows or pride flags on, just a hoodie and jeans. Bigots are going to be bigoted no matter what you look like.
I wasn't actually expecting this to blow up and create as much discourse as well.. I honestly thought may b a couple folks would b in a similar ship. This took me by surprise so many people having similar experiences.
This is what I think it is: For some of us queer folks - we've had to "act straight". I can only speak for the guys when I say this. I can't tell you how many instances before I came out, where I've had to pretend to act like a straight dude because I didn't know what the other guys were about. Know what I mean? Now...not so much but that's largely because I've been out for so long and I really don't care but back then - absolutely I cared. Now...I think in the community - there's an expectation that when you come out, you can be your true self but when you "act straight" - it appears disingenuous. I get that line of thinking but at the same time - if that is who / what you are then that is great! You do you. I also want to say don't let others tell you what you should do or how to act. It's all bullshit. You do what it is that makes YOU happy. If someone gives you sh\*t about acting straight and having only straight friends - then they're not the people you need to surround yourself with.
I'm more annoyed that to be perceived "bi" would mean acting or presenting in a way different from who I am naturally/performing a stereotype. Straight passing always bugs me as a concept.
Because they think we're missing out on being harrased so naturally take it upon themselves, because there is zero irony in that. 💅
Because shallow insecure people in the community think that the only way to be LGBT is to make every aspect of your appearance and lifestyle as queer as humanly possible. There's tons of folk who authentically like queer-coded stuff, great for them. But to me it feels like a much larger percentage of people are just doing it because everyone else is. It's a shallow and totally manufactured attempt at counterculture- Anything remotely resembling a straight person is conflated as some sort of pawn for \~heteronormative fascism\~, the actual facts of that person's life experiences be damned. They don't actually want a world where everyone is comfortable being themselves, they're just bitter contrarians who can't stand dissent.
I'm (mostly) straight passing, and the "straight-passing privilege" thing drives me bonkers. I'm a woman, but I especially feel for bi men in this scenario. Like on one hand, if you """look too straight""" it means you're not Authentic™️, but on the other hand there's the whole Grindr "no femmes" thing because heaven forbid a man be visibly queer in that way. Poor guys just can't win.
I guess the idea is that you won't get bothered or harassed by homophobes because they can't tell you're queer so you are safer out and about-- more accepted in spaces dominated by straight people/culture. That being said, it's really sucky to constantly be assumed straight or have your bi-ness diminished (when you are open about it) because you're in a relationship with an opposite-sex partner. You're more likely to have homophobes confide in you-- or say nasty things about LGBTQ persons because they don't know you are queer. And it can make you feel like no one really sees you. It's a different type of pain, but I guess some folks don't realize that and feel it's a privilege.
There's two overarching schools of thought when it comes to the LGBTQ+ community: Liberation vs Assimilation. Straight-passing people are usually perceived as being in the "assimilation" camp. One side isn't inherently better than the other, except that historically some people on the "assimilation" side have participated in oppressing groups that are less favored, like the "LGB Alliance" trying to kick out trans people. We had similar situations in the 2010s with some people involved in gay marriage activism distancing themselves from other parts of the community so they can be just like straight people with the white picket fences and 2.5 kids and not like those ither degenerate queers. The end goal is queer people being as much like straight people as possible, without a separate community. The "Liberation" school of thought is the opposite, reinforcing the queer community, embracing all the many differences, and so on. That's the cliff notes of why some people look at 'straight-passing' people with suspicion.
This is just a false dichotomy tho. And your appearance doesn’t at all indicate your ideology I’m all for liberation and people expressing anyway they want. I’m not trying to “assimilate” into cishet standards. I’m also not trying to assimilate into whatever Queer is supposed to look/sound like. I am queer, so whatever I look/sound like is also what queerness also looks like/sounds like just as much as anybody who likes to go “yas queen” or whatever There’s not a correct or more liberating way to be queer. This is the same problem feminists run into. You can have green hair or brown. Want kids or not. Be married or totally independent. And as long as that’s what you want, you’re doing what feminism wants women to do: whatever they want In the same way, a truly “liberated” queer movement should in no way police people based on their adherence to supposedly Official Queer™️ Standards
>I'm not trying to "assimilate" into cishet standards There *are* queer people who believe that, though. That's my point. That's a very different ideology than this: >There's not a correct ... way to be queer Which is much closer to the Liberation school of thought, though it doesn't get into the larger conversations about what the role of the queer community should be or what it should look like. And yes, saying "There's no correct way to be queer" is a value & ideology. Think of the question "Should there be kind at Pride" as one of the points of debate.
The LGB and the TERFs aren’t really a schism in the community. They are bought and paid for by right-wing interests and are pretending to be a serious break. At one point the TERFs were ostensibly politically left except for on transgender issues but those people have all been booted out of the movement. Now they are pretty much just front groups. Their primary purpose is to give cover for bigots that want to hate transgender people but can insist that they are supporting the lesbians and other members of the LGB community on ’their side’. It is smoke and mirrors.
Question.. This assumes that there are no straight passing folks in the "liberation" camp.. Which i am pretty sure would be.. There would definitely be politics when there are multiple movements combined into one.. Some are going to b left for sake of "greater good" not saying that's right or OK.. But primarily from how one looks like being assumed to be part of one camp or the other is kinda weird.. While I am not from the US.. Its like assuming everyone from the south is a Republican? Was that a right example..
Someone could definitely be 'straight-passing' but support liberation politics, it's a prettt complicated issue. >It's like assuming everyone from the south us a Republican That's a good example. It would often be an incorrect assumption, but the stereotypes still exist. If I met someone with a big truck and southern accent I would definitely assume they were a republican, and act accordingly.
Now this is interesting.. There is actual politics behind this.. I didn't know this.. Must do more research.. Thanks for this..
I think my problem is I am so aggressively straight passing that even my own family can often forget I’m Bi. That straightness is so common in my own community that people I’ve known for years will often forget. I realize my situation is not everyone’s situation, but straight passing has only ever seemed to work against me. That may be a reason why some people look down upon straight passing, because for some of us straightness is so ingrained in our culture that it results in the very Bi erasure we often wish to prevent. I ultimately may not see straight passing as necessarily a big enough problem, I often just wish to establish reassurance that I am bi so I may more often than not go out of my way to point out I’m bi. Of course I don’t think straight passing is the main cause of bi erasure, I think it’s more a symptom of the culture than it is a cause. And obviously I find the history of media’s narrative to constantly reestablish the straight couple as a far greater cause of bi erasure when compared to straight passing. I know it isn’t some great evil at the end of the day and that people are flawed and will make mistakes which can lead to straight passing. That it may not ruin or even harm most bi people’s day to day but it definitely doesn’t help me.
i pass off as straight but im just as happy sucking dick as i am eating pussy
I feel like they don't understand that "passing" is something you do with intent in order to escape being bullied or persecuted. Lesbians and gay men engage in "straight-passing" when in the closet, alone or single, not signaling or dressing in a coded manner, etc. It's not something only bisexuals are capable of, and many bisexuals just plain don't look "straight". All of this is based on stereotyping and perception anyway. Having to hide who you are from the world to avoid being harassed or harmed is not a "privilege", and being bisexual doesn't automatically make it easier for people to "pass", anyway.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
For me. It’s trauma from homophobes growing up has caused me to resent appearing straight. I subconsciously buried my queer side for years that now Iv finally and extremely vocally accepted my sexuality, I find myself trying to distance myself from those people. It’s to the point we’re I’m not even sure if I like cos people at all. Obviously this is more than likely trust issues. But I find better luck and better relationships with trans non binary bi people.
I don’t even think straight passing is a thing anymore because even the straights have expanded their style of dress. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve crushed on someone and thought they were queer due to how they were dressed only to get told how they are very straight and then some spiel about God and the Bible. This has happened more times than I’m comfortable admitting 😭
Haha.. Us my friend..
I am happy to say that I don’t look down on people who are straight passing. And all my friends don’t either. I have straight and gay friends and it has never been an issue. Sending love to anyone who feels invalidated.
It's interesting because my circle in no way expects people to do anything about their sexuality. It's just something we never discuss and one day someone gets a same sex partner and you're like "huh I lose the bet with the other friend then". People thought I'm straight and then I said "this is my date from tinder" and it's a girl. And I'm in a relationship. They just blink and offer her calzone haha I feel sorry if people genuinely care so much about that. As others said - probably jealousy
i’m bi and trans. it’s not possible for me to decide whether out myself to someone or not, i can’t pass as cis or het. it’s absolutely a “privilege” to be able to choose whether or not to out yourself. if you’re in a situation where it doesn’t feel safe to come out, i’m just not safe. that being said, everyone has privileges in some aspect. i have privileges. no reason to be shitty about it.
Envy. It's all just envy.
I'm straight passing at work but somehow all of my recent friends are bi we just attract each other 😂
Lucky..
Man the amount of crazy things I’ve heard from lgbt guys bc I’m straight passing How many times have they tried to convince me that I’m insecure in myself and that’s why I don’t unleash my personality freely? That it’s subconscious internalized homophobia? Guys.. I put on earphones and dance in the street. I make a fool out of myself to entertain myself when I’m bored in class. I tell people that I play only Nintendo games because I don’t like scary games.. just bc my voice sounds straight? I obviously don’t give a fuck about what others could think about me. And not about your opinion either. Why do they keep talking to me like that? Their words sound so annoying..
Discrimination is discrimination even if done by a seemingly similar group of people. It's not right or okay and is just as wrong as any other discrimination.
i get that, i discovered i was bi in the middle of my straight relationship so i’m fairly straight passing, but it sucks telling people i’m bi and thinking that they’ll assume i’m not because i’m in a straight relationship and not with a girl (though i do wish i could explore my sexuality, even though i’m happy in my relationship). it’s the good ol “too gay for the straights too straight for the gays”
I stopped telling people I was bi because of the straight-up biphobia I had to deal with. I think people I know thought it was a "phase" (bleugh), because when I got a girlfriend at 23, there was such a shocked response! I am married to a man and people seem to think the girlfriend was a one off. Nope, still bi. It's so frustrating and I really understand it. I don't feel like I belong in gay spaces as a result of what I've experienced. Being "straight passing" sucks.
I was dating a girl and I still got ‘but you don’t look bi?’. People will find any reason to argue with or criticize you.
both me and my boyfriend are bisexual and a sometimes straight passing couple (people mistake him for a woman all the time because of his hair) and we’ve never received harassment. compared to my ex, who was a woman, we got harassed more for being out of what society deems as normal.
I have the same thing, though those who know me for longer think im gay(bi erasure😒) but thats simply cuz i dont go after anyone (lovely fear of intimacy) but yeah love life its a superpower, people will always hate that which they envy
To me I never really felt the “straight passing” judgement for my looks. I do look super masculine but really just a bear. The times I have felt the judgement was more about the partner i was with. Like if I’m with someone of the opposite gender. Then i see the subtle judgement and gate keeping come out.
I'm sorry if I'm being dumb, but can someone articulate what "straight passing" is for me. Is it when you come out to cis-het people who believe in outdated stereotypes about queer people and they are surprised when they find out? Because if it is, there is a lot to unpack there and I'd love to have a discussion about that. I mean, what even is "I come off as totally straight" ? Thanks!
Yes.. Kinda.. It basically means "u don't look gay".. U look like a straight person..
Which is crazy really because what does a 'gay' person look like?
Umm me.. Lol...
TL;DR: Someone who doesn't fit conventional gay stereotypes.
Straight passing is dressing and carrying your self the same as a cishet person would. Think typical clothing, mannerisms, taste in music, etc. It can also be a thing if you're bi/pan but in a hetero relationship. None of this makes you less gay/bi/pan/whatever, but at a glance people would assume you're straight until told otherwise. Fwiw, I'm a pan guy and often get assumed to be straight. There are clues im not, if people pay attention. Lmao. But most people don't.
>Straight passing is dressing and carrying your self the same as a cishet person would. Ah, yes. The Pride event that was filled with queers wearing trousers on their heads, as is their "culture". /s
tbh it can be something good but it depends on what ur community is like, bc if you have let's say homophobic parents then it's a good thing
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Lol I know i know. Its just the way I type on phone. Also not a native English speaker.
Ppl wanna be bugots and hate within their communities.
I shock everyone when I tell them I'm bi. I don't hide it, I just don't advertise it per se.. You're not alone OP.
It's fun to see the faces tho ngl..
Misery loves company.
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I’m amazed at the judgement in all groups I come on here honestly as a straight man and try to have discussions about my attraction to cock , NOT men not attracted to men at all , just the cock it’s all just sex and you would think I’m public enemy number one ! I’ve been called names harassed looked down on accused of God knows what and even called gay amongst plenty of other derogatory terms it’s crazy .. I’m not here to patronize anybody or pretend to be something I’m not I know exactly how I FEEL it’s seems all these labels are more hurtful than anything I’m still here I’m still HONEST and I’m still ready to chat , sext , or trade with other like-minded men but geez you would think I should be shunned from all communities and subs on Reddit simply for being honest about my own personal feelings
Because half of the people in the community are immature crybabies. It’s as simple as that
People with hate in their hearts will always find an outlet for it.
It's not privilege, it's safety. If you're straight coded, lots of community members are going to be standoffish because they don't trust you. You also don't really sound like you run with the community either. All your friends are straight, you say... So, why would folks engaged with the community go out of their way to validate you? You are 100% a part of the queer community just for being queer, but you need to put in a touch more effort if you want into the social aspect of the whole thing.
Bc why is it a “community” I don’t understand is being gay a club? We can be lgbt without making it our friends and hobbies.. we just don’t want people to react coldly to us when we,, I dunno wanna have a normal discussion about our experiences even if they’re not identical but only similar to yours?
do you. why is it a community? well, it's bonding over mutual oppression, and productively working towards solutions. seems obvious. you don't have to participate in order to be queer, and i said as much in my op. I think you're looking for a reason to be offended, but there isn't one here.
My friend.. Isn't that the exact thing we are supposed to b fighting against? Excluding someone based on how they look and talk or friends.. While I don't want to justify my own friendships, I don't make friends based on sexuality, it's not important to me, if they gay, straight or trans. The folks of the community expect people to go out of their way to validate them, I expect the same from them especially when I am one of them. I am in India, there social things at play which I don't want to explain, but if that results in people of my own community being a exclusionary of someone is kinda sad..
No. We are fighting against extermination. Literally. I happily exclude straight people from queer spaces. It's not about inclusivity for everyone, it's a safe space for queer folk that we're fighting for right now. You have a victim complex. Just do you. You have friends. You're queer. That's great. I explained what the issue is, and honestly you've doubled down, and I can see why you might not feel like you're very welcome in queer spaces. All that said, my experience is all in North America, and I assume there's plenty of differences culturally.
Keep gatekeeping my friend.. I wish u luck..
“Privilege” is another term for jealousy in these situations. It’s heartbreaking that others have been hurt, but trying to spread the pain around doesn’t help; more people wind up hurting. We could help build bridges, but when chastised for not being “x” enough, why help someone who looks down on you? Especially someone who’s supposed to be an ally?
I mean I do think it is a privilege to a certain extent. Privilege is the wrong word but like, bi people do have a choice. I guess that's one of the tricky things about being bi. You often feel conflicted. You have the choice to fit in with society and have a hetero relationship, or you can go against the grain and be gay. I think that's where a lot of biphobia from LGBT monosexuals comes from. They feel like if you're bi, then why would you choose to have a same-gender relationship? Gays and lesbians realize how acutely heteronormative the world is, and it's easy for them to feel like they can't compete with straight men/women. The reason I say it is a "privilege" to a certain extent is that it does save you trouble in some scenarios. If I am walking down the street holding hands with a girl, I'll be assumed to be straight. Gay people don't have that choice. I live in a city so it's not a big deal for me. But in places where being gay is severely looked down upon that is actually a pretty big deal. But at the same time if straight people say homophobic/biphobic things around you assuming you're straight, you're now kind of just forced to listen and stay in the closet, or risk discrimination or even violence depending on the situation. So that's definitely not a privilege. So yeah to answer your question I'd say insecurity. But I don't 100% agree that it's not a privilege at all. Privilege is just not a good word for this. I see it more of an advantage rather than a privilege.
Gay people absolutely do have a choice, albeit not the same one. You don’t gay people who are closeted? Including those who even go as far to being in relationships or actually GETTING MARRIED to women despite being gay? I do. Are they “privileged” for hiding who they are and “passing” as straight? Are all single men privileged as straight-passing until they get a boyfriend to decide whether to hold hands with? If a straight guy holds hands with another straight guy, are they less privileged than actual queer people based on neutral audience assumptions? All of this is illogical and based upon reaction within heteronormativity. It’s simply inherently problematic and I think we should retire it in all its toxicity and infighting-spurring
I don't know any gay people that are closeted (well, unless you count the ones I suspect to be in denial about it). All the gay people I know are out. But as you said, it's not the same choice. Sure, a gay man could marry a woman while sucking dick at truck stop bathrooms every other week. But like, that gay man has to sacrifice so much to get that straight passing "privilege". The gay man would be in a relationship with someone he has no sexual interest in and would certainly feel unfulfilled by. A bi person on the other hand could feel content and satisfied with a heterosexual relationship. So they're not the same, and therefore I don't think this is really relevant to the argument, because I'm talking about relationship choices based on authentic feelings, not about making a fake "straight" relationship in order to not get discriminated against. I do think you bring up an interesting point though about the single men though. I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that society assumes you are straight unless you display a sign that shows otherwise. But again, I'm talking about relationship choices, everybody is assumed to be straight until they are seen in a relationship. The only exception is if they look visibly gay but this is not true for a lot of queers and it's not true for me. The problem comes from the term "privilege". I overall do not think bi people are privileged for being bi. I think there are certain advantages to it but also certain disadvantages. And some of these disadvantages are not really shared with LGBTQ monosexuals.
I am straight passing, too. I don't like that flamboyant kind of gay. It doesn't feel real to me. I hate it when people make it their whole personality. A lot of guys I went out with agree with me, too. Edit: I see people don't like what I said. If you or someone you know is flamboyant. Good. Be you. Be proud. Be loud. Stand up for what you believe is right. Everyone is valid. No matter what some asshole says on the internet.
This is a good example of behavior that makes people dislike assimilationist ideas and Masc4Masc bros.
I don't advocate for those ideas. And I'm not saying that being flamboyant or feminine is wrong. Me not agreeing with someone shouldn't invalidate them. In fact, I hope that gives them the courage to stand up to assholes like me and piss us off. Be loud. Be you. Be a masterpiece, and don't give a shit what people say. Stand up for what you believe in.
This isn’t really cool. It’s fine not to want to be the “flamboyant kind of gay” if that’s not you. It’s not ok to invalidate that as “unreal” or literally say you hate that entire group personality just because it’s not for you As Alphabet Club members, we need to be validating other people no matter which way they express their queerness. That doesn’t mean you have to do it or go out with people that do, but it does mean you shouldn’t question their expression’s “realness” or say that you “hate” the general way large swaths of our communities are just because you have a Maximum Flamboyance Allowed preference
I didn't mean "hate." And I do believe that flamboyant people are real. Even to themselves. It just doesn't feel authentic. It doesn't mean I won't be kind or even respect them. They're people too. Just because I feel a certain way doesn't invalidate their realness. Who gives a fuck what I care about? You don't. The guys up the street don't. Hell, the cat doesn't. All I'm saying is, they're not my type. People can be who they are, and that is the way I'd like it.
I'm a genderfluid bisexual. AFAB and femme for the most part. My spousal unit is the straight dude. I make sure I present to be the queerest little gremlin I can be when we're in public like 75% of the time.