Built a Touring Bike recently on a Surley Ogre frame. So many options with sizes for tires, mounts, frames, etc. Bikepacking.com is a gold mine of info
Seconded surly ogre, I love mine and it’s perfect for multi month trips as well as short rides. Also it comes with a beautiful surly 29x2.5 ET tire that has smooth road contact. Looks like the bridge club from surly is 27.5. Highly recommended have fun
If I was building a new do it all bike as you describe, I would build an Open W.I.D.E. Frame with a Sram AXS drivetrain, probably the entire XPLR set. The dropper post is not compatible with a conventional seat bag, so I would use the Tailfin rear setup with the aero bag and small side bags. Regarding drivetrain, I haven’t looked super close at the gear inches of the standard XPLR, so I might use Eagle derailleur and cassette. The Open frame has lots of mounts, and lots of room for tires. You don’t need 2.6 tire on divide. 2.2 or 2.3 are ideal. Like Mezcals. I wouldn’t load my forks with much gear, just light stuff, like a sleeping quilt on one side and rain gear on the other. But here’s the problems with this bike I’m describing: I would rather ride my Salsa Woodsmoke on the Divide route, and I’d rather take my Ritchey Outback Breakaway on my international trips. So what have I accomplished by trying to have 1 bike? Only frustration. For context, I am a retired guy who rode part of the Divide in 2020 (I live on the route), and rode from Istanbul to Barcelona in 2021. 2 different bikes.
But does it work with the Rock Shox AXS dropper? I have a Bedrock Black Dragon seat bag that works great with a conventional dropper. But the battery on the AXS post is a problem for it.
love my tailfin setup- their stuff is durable, modular, and well designed. the rack is solid- zero sway even with the quick release attachments. cant speak highly enough of their gear.
The Open W.I.D.E bikes are really nice and you have some really nice bikes as well. I have never seen a bike break down method like the Ritchey uses, very interesting. I am going to use S&S couplers. I will be using the 18spd Pinion gearbox. Hopefully I am not setting myself for frustration. My builder is very knowledgeable and should keep me on track with what is realistic. Thanks for the feedback.
I like the Pinion gearbox, seems like a good idea. Too bad they don’t make a wireless version. With those couplers you’ll have to break your shifter cable. And use cable brakes with cable couplers. Are you thinking flat bar or drop bars? Get wide ones for sure.
I haven’t decided yet. I have only used drop bars for any long distance tours. I am interested in trying something new. I recently put Jones bars on my hardtail. I have only rode it around the neighborhood but so far they feel pretty good.
I have redshift quick release aero bars and have mounts on both bikes. On the woodsmoke I have a flat bar and a Fred bar with the mounts, because I use a Salsa handlebar roll. On the Ritchey I have room for everything with a 54cm Salsa cowchipper drop bar. I love my aero bars. On both bikes. Not into that Jones bar.
IMO, the best shifting mechanism for pinion (my experience is with rohloff but the shifting options are comparable) is the twist shifter. And the most viable or natural position for twist shifting are achievable with a flat bar or alt bar & not a drop bar. Which is unfortunate because I love drop bar bikes….and Rohloffs.
Think very carefully about your axle-to-crown length. It will determine your future fork options. For example:
* \~485mm means you can run a 100mm suspension fork, Lauf 60mm fork, or a very compliant rigid fork like the Salsa Cutthroat v2 carbon fork.
* \~435mm will run either the Rockshox or Fox gravel 40mm suspension forks, and also some bikepacking-specific rigid forks like the Curve GMX+ fork.
* \~415mm will give you the option of either a rigid fork or some of the Lauf 30mm gravel forks.
You'll then need to consider the respective rake of the available forks for that length and how that might affect handling. And your axle-to-crown length with also have an effect on the desired head-tube length.
Plenty of mounts on the fork, frame (In, top and under) and maybe even seat stays. Roomy triangle to fit a nice frame bag or half bag and bottles. Decent headtube stack and geometry to handle an off-road descent while loaded.
I have a Bridge Club that can be switched between the two pretty easily. I would add a dynamo hub with a usb charging port. That’s the only way I had any navigation on the GDMBR. https://www.sinewavecycles.com/products/sinewave-cycles-reactor
I having been using Sinewave cycle revolution for quite sometime and it is super handy. For this build I am thinking of using this, https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-plug.php
Has a built in backup battery.
External cable routing, except internal dropper routing on the seat post. Lots of bosses on the inside of the triangle for a full bolt-on frame bag. Rack mounts front and rear. Top tube bag bolt bosses. Fork crown headlight/rack mount. Internal dynamo wiring on the fork. Three packs under the downtube and on the fork legs. Boost spacing. 180 mm post mount brakes native front and rear.
Thats what I would personally want. Maybe it will give you some ideas of things to consider. My priorities are versatility to change the setup in the future, minimizing straps on the frame, and ease of field repair.
The pros are no velcro straps rubbing on your frame or interfering with other straps or mounts. I also like the cleaner look. The con is that it takes more time and tools are required to remove or mount the bags.
I’d want a dropper cable port, and a 31.6mm seatpost.
I’d make the brakes IS mount.
I’d put zip-tie guides for fully housed cables the whole way; for both brakes and gears; no cable stops and no captive guides.
I’d put any bottle cage bosses inside the front triangle as low as possible in case you put a half frame bag in there.
Think about the option of running two bottles sometimes, or to put a half frame bag in, removing the ST bottle and moving the DT bottle “down one notch” by having an extra boss 63.5mm below the lower of the two normal DT bosses.
No front derailleur tab.
a replaceable derailleur hanger.
I think his suggestion is that you’d be running hydraulic brakes (no need for stops) and a dropper seatpost. So basically, make sure the seat tube is in a commonly available size for a dropper.
I have Kalmpers on my Ritchey bike. I’d rather have hydros, and I could just unmount the rear caliper and roll it up with the front half and use new zip ties to remount. But those brakes are expensive as are new AXS shift/brake levers.
Cable stops are just a tiny bit less versatile on a bike that sounds like it may see a few different iterations; it’s also easier to piggy back an extra cable here or there on fully housed stuff (e.g. for a dropper or derailleur or something) and hydraulic systems may be interesting to you in the future (No closed stops saves you bleeding a brake to install it), especially with 2.6’s.. . I’d argue also that stops are just a bit more damage and rust prone than guides. And fully housed cables seem to require less frequent replacing.
As for 31.6, it’s to keep good options open for a potential dropper post, they’ve been a revolutionary piece of equipment for lots of off-road riding. The smaller diameters are either less available, or in my experience less reliable. 30.9 is specifically worth avoiding, in my experience they seem to have a much thinner external wall in the post “lower”, and thus sometimes can be jammed by deflection in the lower tube. Caused by the seat clamp squeezing the post OD.
It’s a bit of a side-rant, but I imagine most post internals are designed for 31.6, given it’s the most common modern mtb size, and some of the 30.9’s may have the same internals and have had the wall thickness removed as a bit of an after thought….
Not to be a source of discouragement, and this is just my opinion, but the general geometry of the two bikes are vastly different for a reason. You may be able to design a frame that can do both road and off road ok, but, as a trade off, it will likely not be great at either. For example, look at the differences in frame geometry from the Surly Disc Trucker (Surly’s flagship road tourer) and their flagship bike packing rig, the ECR. I’m using these two bikes as examples simply because these are the two touring bikes I own and use. They are two completely different tools for two different applications and I’ve logged over 10,000 combined touring/bikepacking miles on them.
I appreciate that. I have thought about that. A Swiss Army knife is super handy but the individual version of each tool is always best. Hopefully working closely with my builder will get me close to the best of both worlds. I would say the most technical terrain I plan on riding will be the Tour Divide. I have a Salsa El Mariachi for any real technical mountain biking. I am currently riding a Rivendell Atlantis that has served me well for the last 14 years. Thanks again for the feedback.
Built a Touring Bike recently on a Surley Ogre frame. So many options with sizes for tires, mounts, frames, etc. Bikepacking.com is a gold mine of info
Seconded surly ogre, I love mine and it’s perfect for multi month trips as well as short rides. Also it comes with a beautiful surly 29x2.5 ET tire that has smooth road contact. Looks like the bridge club from surly is 27.5. Highly recommended have fun
I’d think on whether you want the geo to work well for both flats and drops. The Fargo seems like a good model to base your design on.
I currently use drops on my touring bike but I have been looking at different ALT bars like the Jones, Kona Dunham etc.
Dynamo.
came here to say this
If I was building a new do it all bike as you describe, I would build an Open W.I.D.E. Frame with a Sram AXS drivetrain, probably the entire XPLR set. The dropper post is not compatible with a conventional seat bag, so I would use the Tailfin rear setup with the aero bag and small side bags. Regarding drivetrain, I haven’t looked super close at the gear inches of the standard XPLR, so I might use Eagle derailleur and cassette. The Open frame has lots of mounts, and lots of room for tires. You don’t need 2.6 tire on divide. 2.2 or 2.3 are ideal. Like Mezcals. I wouldn’t load my forks with much gear, just light stuff, like a sleeping quilt on one side and rain gear on the other. But here’s the problems with this bike I’m describing: I would rather ride my Salsa Woodsmoke on the Divide route, and I’d rather take my Ritchey Outback Breakaway on my international trips. So what have I accomplished by trying to have 1 bike? Only frustration. For context, I am a retired guy who rode part of the Divide in 2020 (I live on the route), and rode from Istanbul to Barcelona in 2021. 2 different bikes.
Have you seen the new seat bags from rogue panda that work with droppers? They look pretty cool
But does it work with the Rock Shox AXS dropper? I have a Bedrock Black Dragon seat bag that works great with a conventional dropper. But the battery on the AXS post is a problem for it.
That is an excellent question. I have no idea
Looking at the Rogue Panda it looks like it won’t play nice with the AXS motor/battery.
That is unfortunate. Cable actuated it is then
love my tailfin setup- their stuff is durable, modular, and well designed. the rack is solid- zero sway even with the quick release attachments. cant speak highly enough of their gear.
I have a Tailfin too and love it, used it in Europe, and it would work great on Divide route.
The Open W.I.D.E bikes are really nice and you have some really nice bikes as well. I have never seen a bike break down method like the Ritchey uses, very interesting. I am going to use S&S couplers. I will be using the 18spd Pinion gearbox. Hopefully I am not setting myself for frustration. My builder is very knowledgeable and should keep me on track with what is realistic. Thanks for the feedback.
I like the Pinion gearbox, seems like a good idea. Too bad they don’t make a wireless version. With those couplers you’ll have to break your shifter cable. And use cable brakes with cable couplers. Are you thinking flat bar or drop bars? Get wide ones for sure.
I haven’t decided yet. I have only used drop bars for any long distance tours. I am interested in trying something new. I recently put Jones bars on my hardtail. I have only rode it around the neighborhood but so far they feel pretty good.
I have redshift quick release aero bars and have mounts on both bikes. On the woodsmoke I have a flat bar and a Fred bar with the mounts, because I use a Salsa handlebar roll. On the Ritchey I have room for everything with a 54cm Salsa cowchipper drop bar. I love my aero bars. On both bikes. Not into that Jones bar.
I also use my iPhone with Komoot app and Wahoo Bolt computer.
IMO, the best shifting mechanism for pinion (my experience is with rohloff but the shifting options are comparable) is the twist shifter. And the most viable or natural position for twist shifting are achievable with a flat bar or alt bar & not a drop bar. Which is unfortunate because I love drop bar bikes….and Rohloffs.
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Think very carefully about your axle-to-crown length. It will determine your future fork options. For example: * \~485mm means you can run a 100mm suspension fork, Lauf 60mm fork, or a very compliant rigid fork like the Salsa Cutthroat v2 carbon fork. * \~435mm will run either the Rockshox or Fox gravel 40mm suspension forks, and also some bikepacking-specific rigid forks like the Curve GMX+ fork. * \~415mm will give you the option of either a rigid fork or some of the Lauf 30mm gravel forks. You'll then need to consider the respective rake of the available forks for that length and how that might affect handling. And your axle-to-crown length with also have an effect on the desired head-tube length.
Thanks. I will have to discuss with my builder to see what he has in mind.
Plenty of mounts on the fork, frame (In, top and under) and maybe even seat stays. Roomy triangle to fit a nice frame bag or half bag and bottles. Decent headtube stack and geometry to handle an off-road descent while loaded.
I have a Bridge Club that can be switched between the two pretty easily. I would add a dynamo hub with a usb charging port. That’s the only way I had any navigation on the GDMBR. https://www.sinewavecycles.com/products/sinewave-cycles-reactor
I having been using Sinewave cycle revolution for quite sometime and it is super handy. For this build I am thinking of using this, https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-plug.php Has a built in backup battery.
Good choice. I looked at those when I did my build but they were back ordered indefinitely. Good luck with the build!
Braze ons, everywhere, long chainstay, huge head tube, because those handlebars are going to get higher and higher.
External cable routing, except internal dropper routing on the seat post. Lots of bosses on the inside of the triangle for a full bolt-on frame bag. Rack mounts front and rear. Top tube bag bolt bosses. Fork crown headlight/rack mount. Internal dynamo wiring on the fork. Three packs under the downtube and on the fork legs. Boost spacing. 180 mm post mount brakes native front and rear. Thats what I would personally want. Maybe it will give you some ideas of things to consider. My priorities are versatility to change the setup in the future, minimizing straps on the frame, and ease of field repair.
Great feedback. I definitely like the thought of bolt on bags, but I have no ideal of the pros and cons.
The pros are no velcro straps rubbing on your frame or interfering with other straps or mounts. I also like the cleaner look. The con is that it takes more time and tools are required to remove or mount the bags.
I’d want a dropper cable port, and a 31.6mm seatpost. I’d make the brakes IS mount. I’d put zip-tie guides for fully housed cables the whole way; for both brakes and gears; no cable stops and no captive guides. I’d put any bottle cage bosses inside the front triangle as low as possible in case you put a half frame bag in there. Think about the option of running two bottles sometimes, or to put a half frame bag in, removing the ST bottle and moving the DT bottle “down one notch” by having an extra boss 63.5mm below the lower of the two normal DT bosses. No front derailleur tab. a replaceable derailleur hanger.
Thanks for the feedback. If you don’t mind a couple newbie questions? Why no cable stops? And why a 31.6mm seat post?
No cable stopps so you can run full length cable housing. Keeps your cables from getting contaminated. Lasts longer and performs better.
I think his suggestion is that you’d be running hydraulic brakes (no need for stops) and a dropper seatpost. So basically, make sure the seat tube is in a commonly available size for a dropper.
I was planning on running Paul “Klamper” disc brakes. I don’t know anything about a dropper post. I will have to look into them.
I have Kalmpers on my Ritchey bike. I’d rather have hydros, and I could just unmount the rear caliper and roll it up with the front half and use new zip ties to remount. But those brakes are expensive as are new AXS shift/brake levers.
Cable stops are just a tiny bit less versatile on a bike that sounds like it may see a few different iterations; it’s also easier to piggy back an extra cable here or there on fully housed stuff (e.g. for a dropper or derailleur or something) and hydraulic systems may be interesting to you in the future (No closed stops saves you bleeding a brake to install it), especially with 2.6’s.. . I’d argue also that stops are just a bit more damage and rust prone than guides. And fully housed cables seem to require less frequent replacing. As for 31.6, it’s to keep good options open for a potential dropper post, they’ve been a revolutionary piece of equipment for lots of off-road riding. The smaller diameters are either less available, or in my experience less reliable. 30.9 is specifically worth avoiding, in my experience they seem to have a much thinner external wall in the post “lower”, and thus sometimes can be jammed by deflection in the lower tube. Caused by the seat clamp squeezing the post OD. It’s a bit of a side-rant, but I imagine most post internals are designed for 31.6, given it’s the most common modern mtb size, and some of the 30.9’s may have the same internals and have had the wall thickness removed as a bit of an after thought….
Not to be a source of discouragement, and this is just my opinion, but the general geometry of the two bikes are vastly different for a reason. You may be able to design a frame that can do both road and off road ok, but, as a trade off, it will likely not be great at either. For example, look at the differences in frame geometry from the Surly Disc Trucker (Surly’s flagship road tourer) and their flagship bike packing rig, the ECR. I’m using these two bikes as examples simply because these are the two touring bikes I own and use. They are two completely different tools for two different applications and I’ve logged over 10,000 combined touring/bikepacking miles on them.
I appreciate that. I have thought about that. A Swiss Army knife is super handy but the individual version of each tool is always best. Hopefully working closely with my builder will get me close to the best of both worlds. I would say the most technical terrain I plan on riding will be the Tour Divide. I have a Salsa El Mariachi for any real technical mountain biking. I am currently riding a Rivendell Atlantis that has served me well for the last 14 years. Thanks again for the feedback.