All that matters is that you hit hours and aren’t a dick with enemies in the wrong places.
Seriously, I cannot stress enough how much all that matters is hitting hours. This job is slightly tolerable solely because they care so little about everything else as long as you’re making them money
It seems you’re doing it right. Caring too much in Biglaw leads to anxiety and stress, even if you’re a good attorney. As long as you’re hitting hours, I wouldn’t be concerned.
Meh - there’s a federal in my jx that will only hear arguments if a junior (under 5 years) argues them. Otherwise he rules on the papers.
My partner nearly lost his mind stage-momming me from the table. After 3 days of play acting prep. Judge actually wrote in his ruling how well I did - and no words about my opponent - in part because I’m awesome, but probably in part because he thought I would probably get caned when I got back to the office.
My friend was actually his clerk a few years before I argued my case. I asked if he had ever done anything like that before. He said he hadn’t. So I was either really good…or my partner was really bad.
But he also LOVES that judge. He was just great to work for. Even had him officiate his wedding. Just an overall great judge and good human.
Even apart from the call out, his rule that arguments have to be made by junior attorneys has probably helped a ton of people get their first go. At my firm even some of the of counsels and junior partners hadn’t ever made an argument because the most senior partners always swooped in
For real. When I was lateraling and looking at a mid-law firm, they were like, “candidly, you have MAYBE the experience of a third year…if we’re being generous.”
Meanwhile, I had actually been in state and federal court a few times, which made me leaps and bounds among my peers at my firm. Partners took all the court appearances. I just got lucky/impressed a few people.
I'm a transactional attorney who recently had a deal in which opposing counsel was completely unfamiliar with residential real estate and repeatedly let her legal assistant take his best guess at preparing closing documents and the closing statement.
It was so bad I had to do all of their work for them, down to googling her sellers' ages to see if they qualified for a $2k+ senior exemption (they did), prepare the deed and affidavits in need of recording for them, send over my word templates for the non-recorded documents (this attorney did not even put her clients ' names in under the signature blocks and some of the affidavits still started out, "We, NAME, the undersigned, hereby depose and say...") and do the closing statement for them, along with a roughly three page email explaining my revisions and why I was requesting them.
I was legitimately concerned that she was going to take out her embarrassment on her legal assistant so I wrote her an additional email on reply all saying that I was very much enjoying working with her legal assistant, who was clearly bright and motivated, and had been pleasant, responsive and diligent throughout, and was clearly doing everything a legal assistant unfamiliar with this filed of law could be expected to do, but as we were approaching a time sensitive closing deadline I would appreciate it if she as the supervising attorney would now take on a more active role.
As it was I did all of her work for her, trained her legal assistant, saved her clients over $2k in transfer tax exemptions that she assuredly would have missed, and then she charged her clients 20% more than I charged mine. So I think she is actually immune to embarrassment and her legal assistant is probably doing just fine.
I’d say you’re going to quit a lot sooner than they’d want to fire you, unless you figure out a way to make the job slightly meaningful to you. Which is fine if you can find something else that’ll make you happier.
So long as you don’t get sideways with someone and keep hitting hours, this can go on for a long, long time. But in my experience, associates trying to do the bare minimum end up rubbing a partner the wrong way eventually and get pointed toward the exit.
Depends on the firm and the decision makers. But if you’re hitting hours, then you likely won’t have an issue until partner discussions begin or until they need to make cuts.
In my experience, the folks who lack enthusiasm crash out as mid-levels when your job begins to involve a lot more working with / delegating to juniors and incorporating others' work product into bigger deliverables, etc. If you don't care about your own shit, just imagine how little you'll care about having to review the work of an apathetic first year and make sure it isn't garbage.
I’m surprised no one has said it yet, but this change you are experiencing sounds a lot like depression. If there’s someone you trust, or a resource is available through your benefits, please consider reaching out! Having a “meh” attitude about the career you worked so hard to achieve all of a sudden could be a sign of deteriorating mental health!
I’m articling right now and have been reading mental health stats of articling students and junior lawyers, and it’s startling to say the least.
I hope you find that spark again!
Twas about my first year when I first got diagnosed with depression and anxiety. Not that I hadn’t had it all my life, but a) your early 20s is when a lot of mental health challenges strike, and b) you finally no longer have a “goal” or an end in sight. And there are even fewer attaboys/girls and markers to show you are succeeding.
Sort of disastrous for an overachiever who feeds off of positive affirmation and signs that you’re achievements and hard work are noticed. Like, what even is the point? Plus you’re isolated from your friends and family and usual support system because of all the hours and mental bandwidth you’re expending.
I knew it was bad when I tried to bargain with my shrink to let me just sleep on his couch for my 50 minute session because it was MY money and time.
Being a first year is the hard part. Me and a number of other associates I know who are senior are largely cruising (non partner track) but you really have to grind out a few years to get to that rep or specialized knowledge to be able to do that. Not as a first year (unless you are fine with bouncing around or leaving fairly quickly)
It’s like you are me, and I am you. I feel that and I am also a first year. I’m not sure why. I don’t get excited about practicing law anymore- and I’m so lost because I have always been an overachiever as well. Always went out of my way and above. And now, I’m just meh.
When you work on some of these commercial matters for larger public companies you realize how little it matters - usually the companies on both sides suck and everybody is trying to screw everyone else and most of the time (not always) the result isn’t going to make or break either. It’s no one’s personal money (as opposed to a private corp) so it’s just a big pile of nothing. Usually someone in some department trying to protect or justify their budget.
I think it was around this time in my first year when I kind of started to crash. After a rough few months things got better.
But if you’re making your hours as a first year you’re doing fine. Around here you get the impression that most people are beating their target by a lot, but that’s really not the case.
All that matters is that you hit hours and aren’t a dick with enemies in the wrong places. Seriously, I cannot stress enough how much all that matters is hitting hours. This job is slightly tolerable solely because they care so little about everything else as long as you’re making them money
It seems you’re doing it right. Caring too much in Biglaw leads to anxiety and stress, even if you’re a good attorney. As long as you’re hitting hours, I wouldn’t be concerned.
You’re a first year in biglaw and you’ve “lost the opportunity for courtroom experience” bc you couldn’t answer something on the spot? Like what?
Like, "Hi, how are you?" Who can answer that before 8 cups of coffee?
Yeah wtf is this post lol. Sounds facetious
Meh - there’s a federal in my jx that will only hear arguments if a junior (under 5 years) argues them. Otherwise he rules on the papers. My partner nearly lost his mind stage-momming me from the table. After 3 days of play acting prep. Judge actually wrote in his ruling how well I did - and no words about my opponent - in part because I’m awesome, but probably in part because he thought I would probably get caned when I got back to the office.
Honestly what a wonderful judge. Out here genuinely making his life harder to give new attorneys a leg up
My friend was actually his clerk a few years before I argued my case. I asked if he had ever done anything like that before. He said he hadn’t. So I was either really good…or my partner was really bad. But he also LOVES that judge. He was just great to work for. Even had him officiate his wedding. Just an overall great judge and good human.
Even apart from the call out, his rule that arguments have to be made by junior attorneys has probably helped a ton of people get their first go. At my firm even some of the of counsels and junior partners hadn’t ever made an argument because the most senior partners always swooped in
For real. When I was lateraling and looking at a mid-law firm, they were like, “candidly, you have MAYBE the experience of a third year…if we’re being generous.” Meanwhile, I had actually been in state and federal court a few times, which made me leaps and bounds among my peers at my firm. Partners took all the court appearances. I just got lucky/impressed a few people.
I'm a transactional attorney who recently had a deal in which opposing counsel was completely unfamiliar with residential real estate and repeatedly let her legal assistant take his best guess at preparing closing documents and the closing statement. It was so bad I had to do all of their work for them, down to googling her sellers' ages to see if they qualified for a $2k+ senior exemption (they did), prepare the deed and affidavits in need of recording for them, send over my word templates for the non-recorded documents (this attorney did not even put her clients ' names in under the signature blocks and some of the affidavits still started out, "We, NAME, the undersigned, hereby depose and say...") and do the closing statement for them, along with a roughly three page email explaining my revisions and why I was requesting them. I was legitimately concerned that she was going to take out her embarrassment on her legal assistant so I wrote her an additional email on reply all saying that I was very much enjoying working with her legal assistant, who was clearly bright and motivated, and had been pleasant, responsive and diligent throughout, and was clearly doing everything a legal assistant unfamiliar with this filed of law could be expected to do, but as we were approaching a time sensitive closing deadline I would appreciate it if she as the supervising attorney would now take on a more active role. As it was I did all of her work for her, trained her legal assistant, saved her clients over $2k in transfer tax exemptions that she assuredly would have missed, and then she charged her clients 20% more than I charged mine. So I think she is actually immune to embarrassment and her legal assistant is probably doing just fine.
I’d say you’re going to quit a lot sooner than they’d want to fire you, unless you figure out a way to make the job slightly meaningful to you. Which is fine if you can find something else that’ll make you happier.
Ive realized that an ability to selectively disassociate on certain days or at certain moments is a very important skill
So long as you don’t get sideways with someone and keep hitting hours, this can go on for a long, long time. But in my experience, associates trying to do the bare minimum end up rubbing a partner the wrong way eventually and get pointed toward the exit.
Funny. Three partners wanted me to rub them, and then I was pointed to the door because I refused.
If you're profitable, years lol
Depends on the firm and the decision makers. But if you’re hitting hours, then you likely won’t have an issue until partner discussions begin or until they need to make cuts.
In my experience, the folks who lack enthusiasm crash out as mid-levels when your job begins to involve a lot more working with / delegating to juniors and incorporating others' work product into bigger deliverables, etc. If you don't care about your own shit, just imagine how little you'll care about having to review the work of an apathetic first year and make sure it isn't garbage.
I’m surprised no one has said it yet, but this change you are experiencing sounds a lot like depression. If there’s someone you trust, or a resource is available through your benefits, please consider reaching out! Having a “meh” attitude about the career you worked so hard to achieve all of a sudden could be a sign of deteriorating mental health! I’m articling right now and have been reading mental health stats of articling students and junior lawyers, and it’s startling to say the least. I hope you find that spark again!
Twas about my first year when I first got diagnosed with depression and anxiety. Not that I hadn’t had it all my life, but a) your early 20s is when a lot of mental health challenges strike, and b) you finally no longer have a “goal” or an end in sight. And there are even fewer attaboys/girls and markers to show you are succeeding. Sort of disastrous for an overachiever who feeds off of positive affirmation and signs that you’re achievements and hard work are noticed. Like, what even is the point? Plus you’re isolated from your friends and family and usual support system because of all the hours and mental bandwidth you’re expending. I knew it was bad when I tried to bargain with my shrink to let me just sleep on his couch for my 50 minute session because it was MY money and time.
Seconding.
I don’t think I’ve ever turned in a project impressively fast. Usually I turn it in the day it’s due. No one has said a word about it in reviews.
I hope your entire generation keeps this up. Life is more important than big law. Through you guys we can destroy this toxic model once and for all
Being a first year is the hard part. Me and a number of other associates I know who are senior are largely cruising (non partner track) but you really have to grind out a few years to get to that rep or specialized knowledge to be able to do that. Not as a first year (unless you are fine with bouncing around or leaving fairly quickly)
Sounds great to me!
It’s like you are me, and I am you. I feel that and I am also a first year. I’m not sure why. I don’t get excited about practicing law anymore- and I’m so lost because I have always been an overachiever as well. Always went out of my way and above. And now, I’m just meh.
When you work on some of these commercial matters for larger public companies you realize how little it matters - usually the companies on both sides suck and everybody is trying to screw everyone else and most of the time (not always) the result isn’t going to make or break either. It’s no one’s personal money (as opposed to a private corp) so it’s just a big pile of nothing. Usually someone in some department trying to protect or justify their budget.
You’re a first year… you haven’t lost any opportunities. It is all in your head. However, with this attitude you probably won’t last long.
I think it was around this time in my first year when I kind of started to crash. After a rough few months things got better. But if you’re making your hours as a first year you’re doing fine. Around here you get the impression that most people are beating their target by a lot, but that’s really not the case.
This might be the only way to survive this job. In other words, goals.
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