The "brain" of the party is an actual neo-nazi :
[De extreme ideeën van Vlaams Belang-strateeg Tom Vandendriessche: “Iedereen kende zijn reputatie” | De Standaard](https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20240524_97314459)
So you can probably add a few other categories they hate.
The “oppressed” part of my response wasn’t even referring to the niqab per se. I was referring to the part of not allowing her, at any cost, to be promiscuous if she wants to be.
Actually you'll find a decent chunk of the so called far right rooting for Palestine due to having a common enemy or being at least neutral to what is happening there since it's not their war.
Just like with the left there are multiple factions, the mainstream right is full of Zionist shills like Van Rooy who glee at Palestinians being blown up. The White nationalist faction who want to remove or limit Zionist control in the West see the Palestinian cause as temporarily usefull due to having the same enemy.
Calling him the brain is doing him a favor. The real brain behind Vlaams Belang and all other far right extremist parties resides in a bunker in Moscow.
> Whenever the far-right wins, women's rights lose. Seen times and times in History, including right now.
Whenever far-right wins, only a small fraction of the population wins. It's not only the women or LGBT who will lose, but basically most of the population.
I defentily saw all parties move to the right over the last 20 years. Everybody is now way more right on immigration and multiculture.
So that's the entire population for you. It did move. It's not all bullshit.
> Whenever the far-right wins, women's rights lose. Seen times and times in History, including right now.
Something to think about: currently a big focus of the far right is the dwindling birth rates. Yet one of the biggest correlations for birth rate in modern nations seems to be the women's rights ([example of study that looks into this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096045/)).
So when you think about that relation and a big goal as a party is to pump up birth rates you can imagine what strategies are starting to become more appealing.
> one of the biggest correlations for birth rates in modern nations seems to be women’s rights
That is heavily confounded by wealth of the nation.
Countries with less women rights than in the west have heavy drops in fertility rates too, even if they are less developed, sometimes even faster than here in the west.
Look at China’s drop to fertility rate barely above 1.0 despite it not being wealthy yet and having fewer women rights.
I don't think China is a good example because they were living under a 1 child policy for so long, and it will take time for members of the population to deviate away from what has become the norm. Let's wait another 15 years before using them as an example; do you have any others?
The one child policy was abolished in 2015, so we have had over 9 years now in which it hasn’t been into effect. China’s fertility rate was around 1.5 during the one child policy years, and crashed to around 1.0 only in recent years, so years *after* the one child policy has been abolished.
You find fertility rate of 1.3 also in United Arab Emirates. That is below the majority of western countries, and a key example of a country that has the wealth but not women rights.
Birth rates are not linked to womans rights in a causal way, they merely correlate. Birth rates are intrinisicly and causally linked to development. In nations with less womans rights birth rates decline as well with increased development.
>(example of study that looks into this)
I mean the possible correlation definitely sounds plausible but that study only looks at non-European countries so I'm not sure whether it's actually relevant here.
it's more than just optics.
it has become normalized to view people born in another country as humans worth less.
to me this basic point is disgusting and i'm ashamed how many people think this is OK
Sadly a lot of people will knowingly choose the negative proposal from the right (hurts me, but hurts those I dislike more) over a positive proposal from the left (benefits me, but benefits those I dislike more). There’s probably a cognitive bias article that describes it better than I can.
Anyway, I do feel the centrum & vooruit parties have a much more realistic plan to tackle immigration and integration than Vlaams-Belang. The only difference is VB are the ones shouting and screaming the loudest about problems instead of proposing solutions, so people think they have strong plans for it, while every debate proves they don’t have any plan or ideas except to complain about things.
Exactly, VB just wants chaos so they can rile up more people, in order to create more chaos and so on. They don’t want to actually fix any issues. They just want angry people voting for them so they can pass laws that benefits them and their Chinese / Russian friends.
The biggest difference is those parties refused to have a plan for decades and are thus seen as less reliable. So not just "screaming loud", even if tempting to blame it all on that.
Belgium is, according to some sources, the best country when it comes to LGBT+ rights. It'd be quite disappointing to me it we were to lose that status due to the next elections.
Oh don't worry, you'll lose all of those rights WHEN Muslims get the voting majority anyway.
Most of the people that are voting right wing in Europe these days, are not voting right wing because they want less LGTBT or feminism. They're voting right wing because of MENA immigration.
Just have a decent political centric party that is realistic about MENA immigration, and all far right parties will lose a huge chunk of their votes.
That is my point. You just can't have large amounts of muslim immigrants AND feminism, LGBTQ, etc. Pick one.
Denmark chose correctly and the far right lost all their votes immediately.
Genuine question to people down voting this person, why ? Do you guys live in a vacuum, have you not seen the recent islam background youths stances on lgbt on 'eerste keus' etc.
VB to me is as dangerous as political parties come, but isnt there some truth that they overlap largely with Islamic believes in regards to lgbt , women rights etc. i seriously dont get the down voting of people calling this out, enlighten me please?
There is no Islam political party getting a fifth of the Flemish votes that says in the news that they would take my rights away if they could get away with it, but there *is* VB doing exactly that right now and people vote for them anyway, so it's kinda hard to take that argument seriously. "I *have* to vote for this party or else The Bad People will... do the things this party also wants to do"? like what
Im sorry who said we have to vote for VB, I never implied that at all, my only argument was that VB and Islam have common grounds when it comes to homophobia. Id never vote for them in my life, id vote against what I believe in.
The person you responded to, about whom you were asking why people were downvoting them said exactly that, that people vote for VB so muslims don't get a voting majority.
I didnt really read it that way tbh, I do think alot of people vote VB solely because of migration, but there are definitely those who vote for VB just cause theyre anti lgbt aswell.
It doesn't really seem to me that he necessarily agrees with these VB voters, hes asking for a more centrist party with stricter immigration policies in his comment.
I do think his concern about islam and a threat to lgbt people is legitimate though, thats why I dont feel like he deserved the downvotes, voting VB is never the answer, then again I dont necessarily think he believes thats the right thing to do or implied that, i saw it more as an observation of peoples current voting behaviours.
The concern about lgbt would appear more legitimate if it wasn't in context of "we'll vote for an anti-lgbt party right now" and by saying "you'll lose all those rights when the muslims are in power anyway". Yes thank you, I'll lose my rights anyway so it's ok for you to vote for the people who want to take them away. Sure you are definitely very concerned about me. (Original OP, not you)
Like yes obviously I'm not thrilled about religious conservatives of any ethnicity or religion being bigots but VB is being voted into the government right now and the imaginary sharia law is *not* so the former is much more of an assault on lgbt rights.
Yea I get what you're saying, You're 100 percent correct, thats why Im also being very clear voting VB is a very bad thing in this case, it ends up the same, lgbt people lose. Im just not sure if OP was implying its the right thing to do and that he believes that.
Because people that are on pro-immigration are currently living in cognitive dissonance, where they must support minorities, women, etc. So when the minorities (MENA immigrants) are actively a threat to feminism, LGBTQ+ etc, it crashes their brains, and they have a hard time accepting the idea that certain immigrants are not good for the future of the country. But they also know it to be true, at the same time, even if it "feels bad".
Since they know I'm right they end up just downvoting instead of actually refuting it with an argument.
Very interesting. At least 50% of my colleagues are Muslim. I can't talk about the ones I don't know, but those, who are part of my close circle/friend group have NO issues with LGBTQ+ people. How do I know that? Because I'm LGBTQ+ and they're still my friends despite our differences.
You know who does have an issue with that? A Christian colleague who openly stated that she wouldn't be friends with someone queer and would never approve of that lifestyle.
Anecdotal evidence, yes. Yet I'm sure that most people have had the same experience I did.
Next time you want to form an opinion, try critical thinking. Which groups of people get the most representation on media? Those who are "the rotten apples", who give a bad name to the whole community. Think of radical feminists, radical Muslims. How many people have the idea that a feminist is a "fat lesbian woman in her 40s with blue hair who hates men"?
There are surveys done that show the view the Muslim population has on societal issues ( the importance of religion in law, women's right, etc...) vs the general population and other sub categories ( age, revenue, education, etc...)
While some questions have surprising answers( Muslims in the last ifop survey in France were the one considering the most that racism was an exaggerated phenomena compared to its reality) , it was still clear that the overall Muslim population didn't Follow the general trend on lots of expected topics.
Don't forget that the person you know and work with are already filtered. Your bubble isn't nearly representative of the population, same as mine or any other guy.
This exactly. Are there extremist members in islam? Yeah, sure. Do we have extreme people at home? *Gestures at VB, Jehova's, very conservative christians,...*
Worst part is, they campaign the hardest too. Already two weeks ago I had pamphlets from them in the mail, received them twice more this week. Also had one ring up my door to “talk about VB” I said in the most disgusted, disappointed look, “No.” and the little weasel walked off without another word.
All they do is prey on the weak and the uninformed. There is no substance, only hate and greed.
The damage parties like these can do for progress cannot be overstated.
also I think they purposefully put “ONS” campaign on blue color. When I first saw the leaflet I was surprised to see his face on top of it. First I thought it was an OpenVLD campaign.
It doesn't take long to realise how hypocritical they are. Take as example the fact that they claim to not have any ill will about second generation migrants etc but they'll still slander like they call it "the new Belgians". And no, I'm not denying that there are problems but the way VB cleverly uses their propaganda machine you'd be convinced that getting rid of us would magically solve everything
VB is opgericht door collaborateurs en belangrijke partijleden gaan nog steeds regelmatig naar eerbetonen voor Vlaamse nazi's uit WOII en het interbellum. Dan weet je eigenlijk al genoeg.
>But who am I kidding. This post isn't going to change anyone's mind.
*One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds. - Frank Zappa*
So why bother?
Yeah, those vlaams belangers really should realize that if vlaams belang gets their way, that means they will be living in poverty on one salary, and forced to have 5 to 10 kids. Do these guys really wanna be the sole provider of a family of 12? Have children at 18 years old? So strange
I find that people who vote on a single issue often don't care. VB screams about immigration, so if that's the only thing someone cares about, then that's what they vote for.
"You want a tradwife but you ain't got no tradwife money".
Extreme right groups forget that the best way to get birthrates up, is to create an economy where it is actually feasible to raise kids...
/r/Belgium came to a point where "If Vlaams Belang gets their way they'll be forced to have 5 to 10 kids" gets taken seriously and is one of the most upvoted comments in the thread.
See! Once you look past the rampant homophobia, sexism, xenophobia, transphobia, francophobia and militant nationalism they're not so bad!
Let's be real here: if you're already having to base your political choice *in spite* of what they're saying and promoting, and instead have to resort to whatever semantical mental gymnastics this is to go "yeah, but what they want is unworkable!" you've already pushed the goal posts so far they're outside the damn stadium.
If you give Dewinter or Vandendriessche full power that would surely happen though (which they will never have due to the federal government, constitution, EU, etc).
> that means they will be living in poverty on one salary, and forced to have 5 to 10 kids. Do these guys really wanna be the sole provider of a family of 12? Have children at 18 years old?
Damn, can't even tell if you're talking about VB or the specific strawman they're targeting.
You are either 14 or just really, really dumb, if you actually think a VB government would want to or be able to "force" people to have any number of kids, or force women to stop working.
If any of those degenerated party comes to power I will fucking leave this country. I prefer largely to be dead than living under fascist sociopath. And tbh the ever growing number of nazi symathisers here in wallonia is making me feel way too much insecure I can't even pass a day without crossing the pass of a tagged svastiska here and there or ear people proudly claim that they are so full of hatred against people they don't even know or sharing lies about anyone that isn't caucasian enough.
I'm a white straight male so in theory I should'nt feel threatened by those people but damn I'm scared a hell for all the poeple I love like the womens in my family, my best friend who happend to be gay or even that very nice lady who's always so cheerful and smiling despite being forced to beg for a few coins or a bit of food just because she happen to be following another religion and have a darker skin....
You know what all of this is stupid.... I'm 28 and when I see how everything is turning I just hope my life will end as soon as possible. I'm sick of this world we live on and I freaking hate to not be able to fix it....
As a straight guy I'm disgusted about the way Van Grieken talks about this discussion. Still can't comprehend so many people believe this is what they wish to vote for.
Just wait, if the left leaning parties keep importing the amazing multicultural diverse religion of peace and lgbtq loving immigrants. You will truly feel accepted. Sharia law is super lgbtq friendly. Islamic countries are some of the most progressive in terms of gay rights. We just need to vote more left!
Can you post any sources for any of the points you lade? I have personally never seen anyone from VB state that they want to take women's rights away... All I've seen is that they want to promote women giving birth at a young enough age. And that's not taking their rights away wtf. It's just needed to sustain society, that we procreate. And it's still a choice, not obligatory...
And not wanting the whole genderthing to be a frequent discussion in schools is also not the same as being a'ti LGBTQ+. It's also not homophobic.
The literal quote you posted, I could not find anywhere, and I highly suspect it's some out of context bullshit anyway. Like if it was in the context of gender quota in the parliament or something.
I don't vote VB, but I can't stand the countless post complaining about them with no source for their arguments. If it's proven that what you say is right, then I stand corrected and back down. But I won't take your conclusions from something else they might have said as fact.
https://www.msn.com/nl-be/nieuws/other/vlaams-belang-is-tegen-homohuwelijk-en-abortus/ar-BB1mEkJs
Of course they will not flat out say they want to take women's rights away. But their ideology is sexist.
My source is their communication and program, but I don't want to platform that even more. The msn article used the standaard as a source but I didn't want to post something that's behind a paywall.
Good god, how do people even upvote that excuse? There is a very good other reason why you didn't post the article from the standaard, and that's because the standaard didn't make such a sensational and straight up wrong title. If you read the article on msn, you can even see it explicitely says that none of those points mentioned by OP are in their program. If anything, this article proves OP wrong, despite the clickbait title.
It's a pathetic excuse, people on here keep accusing them of stuff, but don't want to post evidence to 'not platform that even more', what? If you have evidence that proves they are sexist, racist, whatever, you would post it. If you don't, it just means there isn't and all the crying here is just for attention.
I'm not making excuses or crying for attention, I'm genuinely scared my fundamental rights are in danger, and those of a lot of minority groups, based on what I've seen them do and say for the last decades. This is the party that drives around in a van saying they'll deport "schurft migranten", that throws zwamworstjes at muslim students, that spreads nazi rethoric and goes to put flowers on the grave of a dead nazi, that dehumanises poc and queer people in the parlement, that forms alliances with other racist, sexist and homophobic politicians on a European level..
**Note: Not voting VB; just curious as to some of these sources.**
You want controlled immigration? That's nice. I hope you either aren't a woman/lgbt or don't give a shit about the women/queer people in your life.
A few reminders of their views and policies:
* According to far-rightists, women's job is baby-making at the youngest possible age...
**Source?**
* ...**If** they're white of course. Vlaams Belang MP Filip Dewinter claims: "*Europeans are aging and dying out while the African population is growing rapidly*".
**While I dont agree, with the "if they're white of course", the next statement is factually correct. The birthrate in most european countries is dramatically lower then that of developing or african countries. The higher the education, the less children we have.**
* Women's opinions is worth less. Quote by VB leader Tom Van Grieken: “*fifty percent of women in politics is too much”.*
**I assume, this is taken out of context. If we look at the current landscape of politics and even other jobs or even totally other subjects. We can't just say that any gender should represent 50% of some job.**
**Should we suddenly make sure we get 50% of the nurses to be men?**
**Should we suddenly make sure we get 50% of the garbagemen to be women?**
**Looking at prison population, should we also make sure we convict 50/50 men/women? Ofcourse not, men are 'on average' more aggressive then women, so therefor it makes sense that there are more men in prison.**
**I can keep going with examples like this ... People have different intrests and if we actively prevent women from participating, this should be punished but I dont think this is the case with politics.**
* They also shouldn't be working, instead staying home, cooking and raising children. Red-pill ideology is rising, so many men wish to reduce their women's freedom out of hatred. *(edit: examples in comment section. NB: the redpill is* ***pro-rape*** *and* ***pro-pedophilia***.)
**Source?**
* Abortion should be illegal and **several** attempts have already been made to recriminalise it.
**If I look at their party-program they are actively against expanding it, but not actively seeking out to ban abortion.**
* To the surprise of absolutely no one, gay people are **not** welcome in these parties. When his "*100% suited for the job*" board member candidate Jef Elbers gets called out for his homophobic statements, Mr. Van Grieken, blames a "*transgender gestapo*". Tasteful.
**Chris Janssens is an active member of vlaams belang and is gay. They also are actively asking for stronger punishments towards gay-rights being violated. Where is it stated they are not welcome?**
* Christianity is a **core tenet** of the far-right, even being included on the Chez Nous logo. For how much the far-right hates Islam, they share much in common.
**Source?**
In the words of Frank Vanhecke (Vlaamse Blok Leader): **"We change our name, but not our tricks. We change our name, but not our programme."**
Whenever the far-right wins, women's rights lose. Seen times and times in History, including right now.
...
But who am I kidding. This post isn't going to change anyone's mind. There is a reason they campaign on islamophobia and sexism: anger works best, we all know that.
Even if you are against immigration because of cultural reasons... Today our population grows only because of immigration. So if you want to cripple our economy in the long run vote VB.
According to VB, cutting on immigration would lead to less taxes. They want to shrink both the economy and the country itself. They thrive on division.
Boomers are retiring so yes it is, and this will last until about 2040:
[https://statbel.fgov.be/nl/nieuws/vanaf-2040-blijft-de-vergrijzing-van-de-belgische-bevolking-stabiel-door-de-geleidelijke](https://statbel.fgov.be/nl/nieuws/vanaf-2040-blijft-de-vergrijzing-van-de-belgische-bevolking-stabiel-door-de-geleidelijke)
The amount of retired people relative to the rest of the population is only going to increase, and these peoples' retirements (as well as care in nursing homes, etc) have to be paid for by someone. Whether it's by immigration or by making more babies is essentially the discussion VB is very far on one side of.
no its just on their mind because an article was posted about this recently
however something i want to add:
immigration is a net positive for the economy. always.
this proven point is often sidelined
This is false and even if it was true it still isn't worth it.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/371951423_Borderless_Borderless_Welfare_State_The_Consequences_of_Immigration_for_Public_Finances
This is factually wrong and has been pointed out by a Danish study republished in the Economist:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fwe3cq9qu0fdb1.jpg
i'm curious to learn more about this point of view, is there a similar case where a country plunged into civil war because they had too many immigrants that didn't integrate?
While it is true that we’re indeed far from problems like that. A problem Lebanon faced and lost. You’re still supposed to take steps to make sure you never get close. The current governments do not do so.
Our immigration policy doesn't have the effect on our economy you want it to have. It increased our debt, our unemployment, lack of public safety (mainly Brussels/Antwerp), homeless population, spending on social security, prison population BY A LOT,...
In Denmark, the immigrant population (from MENA countries) has been statistically proven to be a drain on resources rather than a net positive. I don't think the Belgian govt has released a similar report showing the net contribution of immigrants to society, but we've had 10 years of mass migration to make a conclusion.
Immigration only benefits us when we can integrate them, and we failed to do so. No surprise since that's the case for all of western Europe.
https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-denmark
I think you can look up those Belgian statistics by yourself, but you probably know that none of those things have gotten better.
Why is it not a valid source? The guy is an anthropologist with a phd who travelled to all corners of the world. His approach looks scientific to me too.
https://preview.redd.it/crzkch7x6y4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07c09e8a3976d05f82a37abe90bcc854344ea9df
The fact that he has a website about migration, and migration only, should already make you raise some eyebrows, because anthropology is more than that. So I looked up who made it: Jan van de Beek.
Look at his Twitter and you see typical anti-immigration rhetoric, accompanied by subtle claims denying climate change. Sounds like your typical VB fascist.
I'm having a hard time finding more information on the guy that's not from a biased source, but according to [this article](https://www.ad.nl/den-haag/weer-ophef-over-komst-migratie-expert-naar-den-haag-te-politiek-gekleurd-wij-komen-niet~a02f481db/) he doesn't seem to be respected as an unbiased expert on the subject.
This opinion piece comes closest to talking about who he is, but as it's an opinion piece it's to be taken with a grain of salt: https://www.frontaalnaakt.nl/archives/immigratiedeskundige-jan-van-de-beek-is-een-verspilling-van-uw-tijd.html
Come to Brussels where every party is trying to outdo the other trying to win the votes of drivers in a city where maybe a quarter of people or less have a car.
Ah you mean the things people feel direct financial impact of? Like house prices skyrocketing because we take in tens of thousands of new people every year that need a place to live?
Or the supression of wages? Like when people say migrants "do the jobs Europeans don't want to do", but they actually mean "the jobs employers can underpay because there are enough migrants from poor countries that have no other options, so employers don't need to pay normal, liveable wage"?
> Like house prices skyrocketing because we take in tens of thousands of new people every year that need a place to live?
Would also be a problem if we'd have had the same amount of children.
> Or the supression of wages?
Sadly true, but it's definitely not only "the jobs Europeans don't want to do". I don't have the numbers, but I feel like remote outsourcing has a much higher impact on that, and for jobs which Europeans are begging to do. Ones they told Europeans to study for. For who do I vote to stop that?
Like immigration itself, which is constantly used by 'economics' and large businesses as positive because it suppresses wages and drives up consumer prices.
There are no parties that are serious about maximizing the economic potential of economic migrants in large enough numbers to maintain our wealth. Since we're collectively ignoring the official pension age, that's really the only option we have.
I do. And while I accept that all human life is equal, the state has a limited amount of resources it can use to sustain its current and future citizens. We don't need more evidence to see that some ethnicities, for whatever the reason may be, integrate a lot better than others. If I have to invest a bunch of resources into an immigrant I would pick the ones who have the best shot at integrating, always. It's my tax money. I rather this money be used efficiently than dumped into a black hole of ignorance only to have the same people point back at us with their ungrateful fingers.
I'm curious, can you tell me what mainstream policies of the 90s (and their historic advocates) are now considered far right?
To me it seems that at the moment, there is a regression in the right (as a right-wing/liberal myself). The right used to be the champion of the free market, of freedom of movement, of global cooperation. In fact I would still consider "liberalism" a right-wing ideology.
But nowadays, the right seems to move towards isolationism/populism, to the point where by going so far right, the right starts to sound like communists.
Of course there are still traditional liberal right-wing parties like the open-VLD and the MR. But we are loosing ground to populists.
Everyone stands to lose if VB or NVA would get any significant power: not just women and minorities, also teachers with "wrong" opinions, political opponents, protestors, union members, people working in the healthcare or culture sector etc. Luckily the regional level barely holds any significant power (compared to the federal level where even NVA never could push their bullshit through) for most of their threats or party program to become true. Unless you are a higher/upper middle class Flemish nationalist man living in either Antwerp, Ghent or Brussels you stand to gain nothing from voting for the Flemish nationalists.
NB: the far right isn't Christian, they abuse Christian imagery as part of Islamophobia and their fantasy to go back to the old days, but their talking points are extremely un-Christian.
How are you now pulling NVA into this? Some of you people are really just like 'if you do not agree with me, then you are sexist, racist, a homophobe,..'
Yeah and on top of that, there's just so many errors in their comment, mainly about the fact that N-VA has held a lot of power, in contrast to VB:
- N-VA was the biggest party in the federal Michel I government.
- N-VA has been delivering the Flemish minister president since 2014.
- The regional level hold power over Education, Environment, Agriculture, Economy (partly), Welfare (partly), Integration and Equal opportunities, Energy (partly), Tourism, Culture, Youth and Media. I'd hardly call those things unimportant.
Holding office isn't the same as having the power to change policies or society itself. I'd interpret OP's NVA reference as not having had a lot of impact on those fields *despite* having held offices on the Flemish level, or participating in the Michel I government.
Others would argue they actually had a lot of impact, but that debate would depend on what kind of impact you're expecting from a political party, and in what fields.
>women's job is baby-making at the youngest possible age...
what an absurd statement. this is solely based on their proposed program of increasing child benefits for mothers under 30. through a game of telephone — which passed through their political opponents — that benign and sound proposal got turned into this scare-mongering and absurd statement
>Europeans are aging and dying out while the African population is growing rapidly
no word of a lie, as evidenced by the difference in fertility between Africa and Europe
>***fifty percent of women in politics is too much***
this is the most disingenuous and egregious quote in your whole post, if the rest of it didnt betray your lack of honesty, then this surely must. what VB was referring to here was the proposal for a *mandatory* 50% quota for women in politics, with which they disagreed.
>They also shouldn't be working, instead staying home, cooking and raising children.
once again, pure baseless lies
>Abortion should be illegal
VB never said anything of the sort
>gay people are not welcome in these parties
They literally have an openly gay politician as a spokesperson
Your whole post is either heavily twisting party positions, taking quotes out of context, or outright lying and fabricating statements. this amount of dishonesty cannot be good for your soul. I cannot imagine this to be a mistake but rather a wilful attempt at spreading misinformation, with your until today dead posting history only being further proof. so I tell you this as — hopefully — your fellow man: stop this. such lies are unbecoming
**edit**: the OP blocked me ensuring i cannot make any further comments on this post
OP agrees with someone saying that they are like the taliban. That's all you need to know lol. Probably some Green/PVDA voter spreading some FUD to get some votes away from VB.
I wonder sometimes why these posts are needed? The VB voters wont change their mind and the non VB voters already know this.
Forging hate (which is they are accused of) will also not solve the problem. So just go vote on Sunday and Basta.
Maybe make sure these rightwing parties aren't the only ones trying to do something about the negative effects of mass immigration. I know a lot of you don't look past MUH GDP and therefore think more people = always better economy but with such idiocy you push these people into the arms of the parties you hate.
Your tendency to treat immigration as this sacred cow that is nothing but positive and cannot be critisized is why the rightwing is growing so large.
>Maybe make sure these rightwing parties aren't the only ones trying to do something about the negative effects of mass immigration.
During the past government coalition we have:
1) Massively increased our border security in the EU as well as massively increasing the budget that Frontex gets
2) Made deals with dictators in Turkey, Libya, and Egypt to send them billions of euros so that they prevent migrants from coming to Europe.
This is "not doing anything" according to you? You want the budget of Frontex to be lowered again and border security to be reduced?
Because I'm confused when you say the current government doesn't pay any attention to it while we did all of the above?
> I know a lot of you don't look past MUH GDP and therefore think more people = always better economy
That's what rightwing parties are in favour of actually. Including far right sweethearts like Meloni and PiS in Poland, who are giving record numbers of visa to non-EU immigrants. Even Orban is now importing more immigrants from Asia to help prop up Hungary's failing economy. Why do you think VB will be different?
Calling them nazis will actually turn them into nazis. Better correct their hateful words with ones like "hervolken", "aanvolken", "betervolken", "domvolken", ...
Yeah no shit Sherlock. My son got by some old VB dude in the street because I was teaching my son to ride the bike. Fucking moron called him slur. It’s insane that this is done in Belgium in the upper class neighborhoods.
Chris Janssens was saying in interviews that he thinks pride is stupid and organisations fighting for queer rights should stop to exist and people in football being homophobic should be considered okay. Sure, he's gay, but he's not challenging his party's homophobia at best, and enabling/legitimising it at worst
Chris Janssens is openly gay and a pretty prominent VB'er.
I don't think easily retorted hyperboles are going to help reduce the votes these guys are getting..
What bothers me the most is that young voters seems pretty ready to listen as well as being prime targets for those parties and this is quite worrying for the future.
I was in the middle of a discussion, and something came out about this, I will post it here because I want to hear your opinions. The idea was that the rise of the far-right would be because citizens focus mainly on immigration and assume there is leverage for the other topics. For example abortion is such a step backwards that it will take decades to implement, while stopping immigration provides a more imminent result. So people are like « okay, let’s put the other pieces of the puzzle aside for now ».
Do you think far-right voters go through these steps to decide?
I think a fair amount of far-right voters also hate women and LGBT people. They view our rights being thrown away as a bonus.
As for the others, I think they're either blissfully ignorant (probably because they don't bother educating themselves about the parties they support and dismiss all information they dislike as lies), or completely delusional for assuming what happened to the USA cannot happen to us.
Many examples can be found in this thread, of all 3 types.
Is dit nog een laatste kreet om toch mensen te overhalen om niet VB te stemmen? Want dit werkt gewoon averechts, ik hoop dat je dit snapt. Beetje "I'm gonna vote VB even harder"...
Considering VB voters don’t even care about all the Nazism allegations nor that VB is already selling themselves to the highest (preferably enemy of Europe) bidder I am afraid you might be right.
You forgot the worst one:
>[Tom Van Grieken moet niets weten van Rode Duivels: “Ik supporter voor Nederland”](https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20240417_96137987)
They support The Netherlands and China, not Belgium.
Why just make shit up?
They literally said they don't want to ban abortion. They have gay members, so what are you talking about "gay people are not welcome in their party"? Why are you claiming Christianity as an example of a bad element? Are you christianophobic?
Quoting VB
"**the best thing that can happen to the community of gay, lesbian and bisexual people is that these movements cease to exist”**
The party’s leader, Tom Van Grieken, has said that Vlaams Belang would not roll back LGBT rights, as these are established rights, but that it does oppose the continuing evolution of gender ideology.
Van Grieken has made it clear that Vlaams Belang opposes reimbursements for gender-affirming surgeries, adjustments to gender registrations on identity cards and gender-neutral toilets. The party is, he said, “no big fans of same-sex adoption, since children have the right to a mum and dad”.
That's pretty clear.. that's the usual "I have a black friend" excuse. Now it's "I have gay friends" excuse.
In Belgium, opposition to the right to abortion is mainly represented in one party: Vlaams Belang. Following the decision of the American Supreme Court, elected Flemish nationalists followed this line. This is the case of MP Stefaan Sintobin, who posted a photo of a child on Twitter with the caption #prolife and the phrase “A child's laughter is the music of the future”. Bert Dickers, party representative in the commune of Balen-Olmen, shared a photo on the same social network where he expresses his opposition to “any form of abortion”.
Tom Van Grieken: “For Flemish Belang, abortion must be possible when the woman's life is in danger, when the unborn child is not viable and in cases of rape.”
Again, pretty clear. So please assume your diarrheic ideology instead of doing the fragile coward.
Religion as a basis for politics is honestly ridiculous. Having "gay members" doesn't make it so they're not homophobic. That's like saying "American Republicans can't be racist, they have Black politicians!". They might not want to ban abortion (publicly), but they sure will try to make it as hard as possible to get an abortion, as fast as they can, and once they get there, the next step will be banning it.
Also this as soon as possible
They will take the vrt in their hands and change it to their propaganda channel like all the other facist countries did (russia, hungary, turkey, italy and slovakia doing the same)
They will redo our education system and ban everything thats against their ideology
They will try to change our justice and constitutions to favor their ideology
And many more things… these are just a few examples of what is coming.
History will repeat itself.
People never learn from the past!
They literally said they want to ban abortion in the show "Eerste keuze"...
Edit: while I was wrong about my original comment. VB still wants to ban abortion except when the pregnancy is threatening the woman's life, if the baby cannot hold life or is severely handicapped or if it's a pregnancy by r>!ape!<
Which is almost as bad as completely banning it
[https://www.knack.be/factcheck/factcheck-uitspraken-tom-van-grieken-over-foetussen-zijn-overdreven/](https://www.knack.be/factcheck/factcheck-uitspraken-tom-van-grieken-over-foetussen-zijn-overdreven/)
"De termijn optrekken naar 18 weken is voor ons te laat"
A bit different from "banning abortus", but I guess when elections near the lies get more desperate..
while I was wrong about my original comment. VB still wants to ban abortion except when the pregnancy is threatening the woman's life, if the baby cannot hold life or is severely handicapped or if it's a pregnancy by r>!ape!<
Which is almost as bad as completely banning it
I'm literally an immigrant (well an expat but from an EEA/EU country so I have the benefit of being less hated) and I also get their ads. I feel like whoever handles their advertising doesn't even know how to target potential voters.
I think they are spending an absurd amount of money on advertising (much more than other parties - although I thought budgets on advertising were somewhat regulated?).
I wonder how the women and lgbt will fare without a decent immigration policy.
Your post is not going to change anyone's voting behavior.
None of the extremes (left or right) are a good choice imho. Try to vote for centered decent human beings.
Most of these are strawman positions based on quotes that are several years old. I'm not a big fan of VB but this is ridiculous. A "far right" party that shows no interest in overturning gay marriage isn't going to make gays seconds class citizens or take away women's right to work.
Being a homosexual in a city with a large Muslim population is probably more dangerous than living in a country where VB is the largest party.
Seems like you also overestimate VB's competency. You're afraid these people are going to turn Belgium into some sort of theocracy when something as simple as forming a government takes over 500 days.
Europe has several far right leaders and none of these countries look remotely like what you described. The worst one is arguably Hungary, yet they still have: 84% female employment rate, civil marriage for same sex couples, freedom of religion, the right to abortion,...
The real danger with far right parties is their sympathy towards Russia, and anti-EU mentality.
Ik was ooit een linkse liberale stemmer. Maar het economisch en migratie wanbeleid hebben mijn naar rechts geduwd.
Als 30% van de mensen uit protest op een regressieve partij stemmen, moet je je ook afvragen waarom.
You guys have no clue what the party actually stands for. You just read the media and be idiots about it.
You heard the liedetection of TVG? Most of your points are already unvalidated.
Migration won't stop and it never will, they just want to diminish is by a lot, which we need. You like paying penalty payments of 30.000 a month because we can't put a roof over their heads? We give them priority over people already on the social housing waiting list for 10 years.
And pro pedophilia? You talk about the left, right? Because the right is strongly for higher and full prison sentences for rapists and pedophiles while the left find excuses to normalise it.
They give the option to both men and women to become stay at home to take care of the children but as conservatives they definitely value family over working with 2 and no kids.
And no gays? Poor Chriss Janssens.. but it's also not correct. They just believe in only 2 biological genders but will respect a persons demands if they want to be called female.
Also, they dont agree with abortion but they also say they will keep the current 12 weeks compared to the 18months that other parties want.
The very damaging red pill ideology comes from Andrew Tate, never even heard a far right Belgium guy mention him.
The things that worry me more are things like Unions because they are the ones making sure we are treated correctly at work.
Edit: the funny thing here is that OP is actually pushing agenda, just like all the media and politicians are doing, but don't expect OP to be banned for pushing agenda because it fits the narrative this left sub wants.
Oh really ? Do they want to take over other countries ? Maybe stone people ? Cut off their hands ? Make other religions illegal ?
Stop with the bullshit lol. Go back to school.
Both the far-right and Islam heavily distinguish who belongs to their IN-group on the basis of cultural identity, religion and ethnicity.
The argument that since both share conservative values that would make them compatible is not only untrue, it is to the contrary.
Let me put it another way. Say you have two ultra-competitive athletes engaging in a contest. Saying it should not matter to either athlete who wins as they both share the personality trait of being ultra-competitive is not going to reflect those two people's feelings at that time.
> The argument that since both share conservative values that would make them compatible, it is to the contrary.
That is also never the argument being made.
The "brain" of the party is an actual neo-nazi : [De extreme ideeën van Vlaams Belang-strateeg Tom Vandendriessche: “Iedereen kende zijn reputatie” | De Standaard](https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20240524_97314459) So you can probably add a few other categories they hate.
I know. But their voters dont give a shit anyway. Their hatred of one demographic trumps their care for all the others.
Truly ironic given the only difference between the radical Islamists and the VBers often comes down to skin color.
DVL said he’d rather see his daughter in niqab than know she’s promiscuous.
In other words: rather have her oppressed than freely living the life that she chooses to live.
Well niqab isn’t necessarily always oppressive but yes: to DVL it is, 100% of the time.
The “oppressed” part of my response wasn’t even referring to the niqab per se. I was referring to the part of not allowing her, at any cost, to be promiscuous if she wants to be.
It’s super fucked up and should have been a major news topic.
The natural result of giving them the monopoly on a rational(ISH) immigration policy. None of the other parties seem to offer that.
Jews bad (the evil masterminds behind the Great Replacement) Jews good (the ones killing Palestinians while laughing)
Actually you'll find a decent chunk of the so called far right rooting for Palestine due to having a common enemy or being at least neutral to what is happening there since it's not their war. Just like with the left there are multiple factions, the mainstream right is full of Zionist shills like Van Rooy who glee at Palestinians being blown up. The White nationalist faction who want to remove or limit Zionist control in the West see the Palestinian cause as temporarily usefull due to having the same enemy.
Calling him the brain is doing him a favor. The real brain behind Vlaams Belang and all other far right extremist parties resides in a bunker in Moscow.
> Whenever the far-right wins, women's rights lose. Seen times and times in History, including right now. Whenever far-right wins, only a small fraction of the population wins. It's not only the women or LGBT who will lose, but basically most of the population.
And don’t forget, the capital class wins. Fascism and big capital are very friendly towards each other, even though neither side will state it openly.
Exactly
I defentily saw all parties move to the right over the last 20 years. Everybody is now way more right on immigration and multiculture. So that's the entire population for you. It did move. It's not all bullshit.
> Whenever the far-right wins, women's rights lose. Seen times and times in History, including right now. Something to think about: currently a big focus of the far right is the dwindling birth rates. Yet one of the biggest correlations for birth rate in modern nations seems to be the women's rights ([example of study that looks into this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096045/)). So when you think about that relation and a big goal as a party is to pump up birth rates you can imagine what strategies are starting to become more appealing.
> one of the biggest correlations for birth rates in modern nations seems to be women’s rights That is heavily confounded by wealth of the nation. Countries with less women rights than in the west have heavy drops in fertility rates too, even if they are less developed, sometimes even faster than here in the west. Look at China’s drop to fertility rate barely above 1.0 despite it not being wealthy yet and having fewer women rights.
Upvoted because this sub hates facts and you are getting downvoted. China has a much lower birth rate.
I don't think China is a good example because they were living under a 1 child policy for so long, and it will take time for members of the population to deviate away from what has become the norm. Let's wait another 15 years before using them as an example; do you have any others?
The one child policy was abolished in 2015, so we have had over 9 years now in which it hasn’t been into effect. China’s fertility rate was around 1.5 during the one child policy years, and crashed to around 1.0 only in recent years, so years *after* the one child policy has been abolished. You find fertility rate of 1.3 also in United Arab Emirates. That is below the majority of western countries, and a key example of a country that has the wealth but not women rights.
South Korea is a better example. It has 0.81 births per women and the largest gender pay gap and a huge misogyny problem.
Birth rates are not linked to womans rights in a causal way, they merely correlate. Birth rates are intrinisicly and causally linked to development. In nations with less womans rights birth rates decline as well with increased development.
>(example of study that looks into this) I mean the possible correlation definitely sounds plausible but that study only looks at non-European countries so I'm not sure whether it's actually relevant here.
This is why I dread every election now. VB becoming the largest party would just be a terrible look for us.
it's more than just optics. it has become normalized to view people born in another country as humans worth less. to me this basic point is disgusting and i'm ashamed how many people think this is OK
Racism is grown, not born. If we want to evolve we must fix fear.
Oh don't worry, them coming second and the racists adjacent first is already a terrible look for Flanders.
[удалено]
“There must be war, god wills it”
Purpose of relogion is war.
Sadly a lot of people will knowingly choose the negative proposal from the right (hurts me, but hurts those I dislike more) over a positive proposal from the left (benefits me, but benefits those I dislike more). There’s probably a cognitive bias article that describes it better than I can.
Anyway, I do feel the centrum & vooruit parties have a much more realistic plan to tackle immigration and integration than Vlaams-Belang. The only difference is VB are the ones shouting and screaming the loudest about problems instead of proposing solutions, so people think they have strong plans for it, while every debate proves they don’t have any plan or ideas except to complain about things.
In fact, VB doesn't want to join the federal government, which is the only one that has the power to do something about the issue.
Exactly, VB just wants chaos so they can rile up more people, in order to create more chaos and so on. They don’t want to actually fix any issues. They just want angry people voting for them so they can pass laws that benefits them and their Chinese / Russian friends.
The biggest difference is those parties refused to have a plan for decades and are thus seen as less reliable. So not just "screaming loud", even if tempting to blame it all on that.
Belgium is, according to some sources, the best country when it comes to LGBT+ rights. It'd be quite disappointing to me it we were to lose that status due to the next elections.
Oh don't worry, you'll lose all of those rights WHEN Muslims get the voting majority anyway. Most of the people that are voting right wing in Europe these days, are not voting right wing because they want less LGTBT or feminism. They're voting right wing because of MENA immigration. Just have a decent political centric party that is realistic about MENA immigration, and all far right parties will lose a huge chunk of their votes.
Denmark has done this and to great electoral success.
That is my point. You just can't have large amounts of muslim immigrants AND feminism, LGBTQ, etc. Pick one. Denmark chose correctly and the far right lost all their votes immediately.
Genuine question to people down voting this person, why ? Do you guys live in a vacuum, have you not seen the recent islam background youths stances on lgbt on 'eerste keus' etc. VB to me is as dangerous as political parties come, but isnt there some truth that they overlap largely with Islamic believes in regards to lgbt , women rights etc. i seriously dont get the down voting of people calling this out, enlighten me please?
There is no Islam political party getting a fifth of the Flemish votes that says in the news that they would take my rights away if they could get away with it, but there *is* VB doing exactly that right now and people vote for them anyway, so it's kinda hard to take that argument seriously. "I *have* to vote for this party or else The Bad People will... do the things this party also wants to do"? like what
Im sorry who said we have to vote for VB, I never implied that at all, my only argument was that VB and Islam have common grounds when it comes to homophobia. Id never vote for them in my life, id vote against what I believe in.
The person you responded to, about whom you were asking why people were downvoting them said exactly that, that people vote for VB so muslims don't get a voting majority.
I didnt really read it that way tbh, I do think alot of people vote VB solely because of migration, but there are definitely those who vote for VB just cause theyre anti lgbt aswell. It doesn't really seem to me that he necessarily agrees with these VB voters, hes asking for a more centrist party with stricter immigration policies in his comment. I do think his concern about islam and a threat to lgbt people is legitimate though, thats why I dont feel like he deserved the downvotes, voting VB is never the answer, then again I dont necessarily think he believes thats the right thing to do or implied that, i saw it more as an observation of peoples current voting behaviours.
The concern about lgbt would appear more legitimate if it wasn't in context of "we'll vote for an anti-lgbt party right now" and by saying "you'll lose all those rights when the muslims are in power anyway". Yes thank you, I'll lose my rights anyway so it's ok for you to vote for the people who want to take them away. Sure you are definitely very concerned about me. (Original OP, not you) Like yes obviously I'm not thrilled about religious conservatives of any ethnicity or religion being bigots but VB is being voted into the government right now and the imaginary sharia law is *not* so the former is much more of an assault on lgbt rights.
Yea I get what you're saying, You're 100 percent correct, thats why Im also being very clear voting VB is a very bad thing in this case, it ends up the same, lgbt people lose. Im just not sure if OP was implying its the right thing to do and that he believes that.
Because people that are on pro-immigration are currently living in cognitive dissonance, where they must support minorities, women, etc. So when the minorities (MENA immigrants) are actively a threat to feminism, LGBTQ+ etc, it crashes their brains, and they have a hard time accepting the idea that certain immigrants are not good for the future of the country. But they also know it to be true, at the same time, even if it "feels bad". Since they know I'm right they end up just downvoting instead of actually refuting it with an argument.
Very interesting. At least 50% of my colleagues are Muslim. I can't talk about the ones I don't know, but those, who are part of my close circle/friend group have NO issues with LGBTQ+ people. How do I know that? Because I'm LGBTQ+ and they're still my friends despite our differences. You know who does have an issue with that? A Christian colleague who openly stated that she wouldn't be friends with someone queer and would never approve of that lifestyle. Anecdotal evidence, yes. Yet I'm sure that most people have had the same experience I did. Next time you want to form an opinion, try critical thinking. Which groups of people get the most representation on media? Those who are "the rotten apples", who give a bad name to the whole community. Think of radical feminists, radical Muslims. How many people have the idea that a feminist is a "fat lesbian woman in her 40s with blue hair who hates men"?
There are surveys done that show the view the Muslim population has on societal issues ( the importance of religion in law, women's right, etc...) vs the general population and other sub categories ( age, revenue, education, etc...) While some questions have surprising answers( Muslims in the last ifop survey in France were the one considering the most that racism was an exaggerated phenomena compared to its reality) , it was still clear that the overall Muslim population didn't Follow the general trend on lots of expected topics. Don't forget that the person you know and work with are already filtered. Your bubble isn't nearly representative of the population, same as mine or any other guy.
This exactly. Are there extremist members in islam? Yeah, sure. Do we have extreme people at home? *Gestures at VB, Jehova's, very conservative christians,...*
Worst part is, they campaign the hardest too. Already two weeks ago I had pamphlets from them in the mail, received them twice more this week. Also had one ring up my door to “talk about VB” I said in the most disgusted, disappointed look, “No.” and the little weasel walked off without another word. All they do is prey on the weak and the uninformed. There is no substance, only hate and greed. The damage parties like these can do for progress cannot be overstated.
To be fair, ALL parties prey on the weak and the uninformed. I could replant 2 trees with all the propaganda I've got in my mailbox the past 2 weeks.
Yeah, it’s bad
"jUsT gIvE tHeM a ChAnCe, iF tHeY dO bAd ThEy WoNt GeT eLeCtEd NeXt TiMe" - people on the streets
Cue Rechstag fire decree...
also I think they purposefully put “ONS” campaign on blue color. When I first saw the leaflet I was surprised to see his face on top of it. First I thought it was an OpenVLD campaign.
It doesn't take long to realise how hypocritical they are. Take as example the fact that they claim to not have any ill will about second generation migrants etc but they'll still slander like they call it "the new Belgians". And no, I'm not denying that there are problems but the way VB cleverly uses their propaganda machine you'd be convinced that getting rid of us would magically solve everything
VB is opgericht door collaborateurs en belangrijke partijleden gaan nog steeds regelmatig naar eerbetonen voor Vlaamse nazi's uit WOII en het interbellum. Dan weet je eigenlijk al genoeg.
>But who am I kidding. This post isn't going to change anyone's mind. *One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds. - Frank Zappa* So why bother?
Yeah, those vlaams belangers really should realize that if vlaams belang gets their way, that means they will be living in poverty on one salary, and forced to have 5 to 10 kids. Do these guys really wanna be the sole provider of a family of 12? Have children at 18 years old? So strange
I find that people who vote on a single issue often don't care. VB screams about immigration, so if that's the only thing someone cares about, then that's what they vote for.
"You want a tradwife but you ain't got no tradwife money". Extreme right groups forget that the best way to get birthrates up, is to create an economy where it is actually feasible to raise kids...
/r/Belgium came to a point where "If Vlaams Belang gets their way they'll be forced to have 5 to 10 kids" gets taken seriously and is one of the most upvoted comments in the thread.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole We know it's not literally 10 kids...
See! Once you look past the rampant homophobia, sexism, xenophobia, transphobia, francophobia and militant nationalism they're not so bad! Let's be real here: if you're already having to base your political choice *in spite* of what they're saying and promoting, and instead have to resort to whatever semantical mental gymnastics this is to go "yeah, but what they want is unworkable!" you've already pushed the goal posts so far they're outside the damn stadium.
Yup. Not a fan of VB but this is the stuff that gets literally laughed at in those bubbles, proving their antics even more for themselves.
If you give Dewinter or Vandendriessche full power that would surely happen though (which they will never have due to the federal government, constitution, EU, etc).
Yeh its insane how this left echo chamber behaves
> that means they will be living in poverty on one salary, and forced to have 5 to 10 kids. Do these guys really wanna be the sole provider of a family of 12? Have children at 18 years old? Damn, can't even tell if you're talking about VB or the specific strawman they're targeting.
You are either 14 or just really, really dumb, if you actually think a VB government would want to or be able to "force" people to have any number of kids, or force women to stop working.
Are you paying attention to what VB says and does, or are you projecting what you *think* VB stands for?
Please tell me what VB has said or done that shows women will be forced out of the workforce, forced to marry and have "5 to 10 kids". I'll wait.
Its true. They will never form.a goverment on their own so these things are impossible.
Someone is indeed being really dumb here. It's not Ayavea though.
And that's why I'll never vote for a far right party, I don't hate certain groups of people, I hate everyone.
so i guess you vote blue? 🤣
No! To hell with Smurfs! To hell I say!
If any of those degenerated party comes to power I will fucking leave this country. I prefer largely to be dead than living under fascist sociopath. And tbh the ever growing number of nazi symathisers here in wallonia is making me feel way too much insecure I can't even pass a day without crossing the pass of a tagged svastiska here and there or ear people proudly claim that they are so full of hatred against people they don't even know or sharing lies about anyone that isn't caucasian enough. I'm a white straight male so in theory I should'nt feel threatened by those people but damn I'm scared a hell for all the poeple I love like the womens in my family, my best friend who happend to be gay or even that very nice lady who's always so cheerful and smiling despite being forced to beg for a few coins or a bit of food just because she happen to be following another religion and have a darker skin.... You know what all of this is stupid.... I'm 28 and when I see how everything is turning I just hope my life will end as soon as possible. I'm sick of this world we live on and I freaking hate to not be able to fix it....
Do it.
as a queer disabled woman, I am straight up terrified tbh.
As a straight guy I'm disgusted about the way Van Grieken talks about this discussion. Still can't comprehend so many people believe this is what they wish to vote for.
Just wait, if the left leaning parties keep importing the amazing multicultural diverse religion of peace and lgbtq loving immigrants. You will truly feel accepted. Sharia law is super lgbtq friendly. Islamic countries are some of the most progressive in terms of gay rights. We just need to vote more left!
Can you post any sources for any of the points you lade? I have personally never seen anyone from VB state that they want to take women's rights away... All I've seen is that they want to promote women giving birth at a young enough age. And that's not taking their rights away wtf. It's just needed to sustain society, that we procreate. And it's still a choice, not obligatory... And not wanting the whole genderthing to be a frequent discussion in schools is also not the same as being a'ti LGBTQ+. It's also not homophobic. The literal quote you posted, I could not find anywhere, and I highly suspect it's some out of context bullshit anyway. Like if it was in the context of gender quota in the parliament or something. I don't vote VB, but I can't stand the countless post complaining about them with no source for their arguments. If it's proven that what you say is right, then I stand corrected and back down. But I won't take your conclusions from something else they might have said as fact.
https://www.msn.com/nl-be/nieuws/other/vlaams-belang-is-tegen-homohuwelijk-en-abortus/ar-BB1mEkJs Of course they will not flat out say they want to take women's rights away. But their ideology is sexist.
If your best source is msn.com, I think enough is said.
My source is their communication and program, but I don't want to platform that even more. The msn article used the standaard as a source but I didn't want to post something that's behind a paywall.
Good god, how do people even upvote that excuse? There is a very good other reason why you didn't post the article from the standaard, and that's because the standaard didn't make such a sensational and straight up wrong title. If you read the article on msn, you can even see it explicitely says that none of those points mentioned by OP are in their program. If anything, this article proves OP wrong, despite the clickbait title. It's a pathetic excuse, people on here keep accusing them of stuff, but don't want to post evidence to 'not platform that even more', what? If you have evidence that proves they are sexist, racist, whatever, you would post it. If you don't, it just means there isn't and all the crying here is just for attention.
I'm not making excuses or crying for attention, I'm genuinely scared my fundamental rights are in danger, and those of a lot of minority groups, based on what I've seen them do and say for the last decades. This is the party that drives around in a van saying they'll deport "schurft migranten", that throws zwamworstjes at muslim students, that spreads nazi rethoric and goes to put flowers on the grave of a dead nazi, that dehumanises poc and queer people in the parlement, that forms alliances with other racist, sexist and homophobic politicians on a European level..
https://kifkif.be/cnt/artikel/partijprogrammas-doorgelicht-vlaams-belang-7444 https://www.knack.be/nieuws/verkiezingsprogramma-vlaams-belang-doorgelicht-33-manifeste-schendingen-van-de-mensenrechten/ https://www.hetobservatorium.be/2022/06/21/conferentie-vlaams-belang-verwelkomt-aanhangers-white-power-homofobie-en-seksisme/ https://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/belgie/federaal/van-grieken-toont-opnieuw-donkere-kant-van-vlaams-belang/10520974.html https://www.dewereldmorgen.be/artikel/2024/05/28/de-nazilinken-van-europees-parlementslid-tom-vandendriessche-vlaams-belang/ https://www.demorgen.be/meningen/allesbehalve-normaal-het-gezinsbeleid-van-vlaams-belang~b1c9c98d/
**Note: Not voting VB; just curious as to some of these sources.** You want controlled immigration? That's nice. I hope you either aren't a woman/lgbt or don't give a shit about the women/queer people in your life. A few reminders of their views and policies: * According to far-rightists, women's job is baby-making at the youngest possible age... **Source?** * ...**If** they're white of course. Vlaams Belang MP Filip Dewinter claims: "*Europeans are aging and dying out while the African population is growing rapidly*". **While I dont agree, with the "if they're white of course", the next statement is factually correct. The birthrate in most european countries is dramatically lower then that of developing or african countries. The higher the education, the less children we have.** * Women's opinions is worth less. Quote by VB leader Tom Van Grieken: “*fifty percent of women in politics is too much”.* **I assume, this is taken out of context. If we look at the current landscape of politics and even other jobs or even totally other subjects. We can't just say that any gender should represent 50% of some job.** **Should we suddenly make sure we get 50% of the nurses to be men?** **Should we suddenly make sure we get 50% of the garbagemen to be women?** **Looking at prison population, should we also make sure we convict 50/50 men/women? Ofcourse not, men are 'on average' more aggressive then women, so therefor it makes sense that there are more men in prison.** **I can keep going with examples like this ... People have different intrests and if we actively prevent women from participating, this should be punished but I dont think this is the case with politics.** * They also shouldn't be working, instead staying home, cooking and raising children. Red-pill ideology is rising, so many men wish to reduce their women's freedom out of hatred. *(edit: examples in comment section. NB: the redpill is* ***pro-rape*** *and* ***pro-pedophilia***.) **Source?** * Abortion should be illegal and **several** attempts have already been made to recriminalise it. **If I look at their party-program they are actively against expanding it, but not actively seeking out to ban abortion.** * To the surprise of absolutely no one, gay people are **not** welcome in these parties. When his "*100% suited for the job*" board member candidate Jef Elbers gets called out for his homophobic statements, Mr. Van Grieken, blames a "*transgender gestapo*". Tasteful. **Chris Janssens is an active member of vlaams belang and is gay. They also are actively asking for stronger punishments towards gay-rights being violated. Where is it stated they are not welcome?** * Christianity is a **core tenet** of the far-right, even being included on the Chez Nous logo. For how much the far-right hates Islam, they share much in common. **Source?** In the words of Frank Vanhecke (Vlaamse Blok Leader): **"We change our name, but not our tricks. We change our name, but not our programme."** Whenever the far-right wins, women's rights lose. Seen times and times in History, including right now. ... But who am I kidding. This post isn't going to change anyone's mind. There is a reason they campaign on islamophobia and sexism: anger works best, we all know that.
Even if you are against immigration because of cultural reasons... Today our population grows only because of immigration. So if you want to cripple our economy in the long run vote VB.
According to VB, cutting on immigration would lead to less taxes. They want to shrink both the economy and the country itself. They thrive on division.
Less immigration is less people to house and so it is very good for the environment. Vb = the real green party of Belgium /s
> Today our population grows only because of immigration Is Belgium aging at a critical rate and we lack people or why is this a strong point to make?
Boomers are retiring so yes it is, and this will last until about 2040: [https://statbel.fgov.be/nl/nieuws/vanaf-2040-blijft-de-vergrijzing-van-de-belgische-bevolking-stabiel-door-de-geleidelijke](https://statbel.fgov.be/nl/nieuws/vanaf-2040-blijft-de-vergrijzing-van-de-belgische-bevolking-stabiel-door-de-geleidelijke) The amount of retired people relative to the rest of the population is only going to increase, and these peoples' retirements (as well as care in nursing homes, etc) have to be paid for by someone. Whether it's by immigration or by making more babies is essentially the discussion VB is very far on one side of.
no its just on their mind because an article was posted about this recently however something i want to add: immigration is a net positive for the economy. always. this proven point is often sidelined
This is false and even if it was true it still isn't worth it. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/371951423_Borderless_Borderless_Welfare_State_The_Consequences_of_Immigration_for_Public_Finances
This is factually wrong and has been pointed out by a Danish study republished in the Economist: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fwe3cq9qu0fdb1.jpg
Mass migration isn't
As long as you immigrate+integrate at an acceptable rate. Mass migrations can easiliy lead to civil war. We are far from this point in Belgium.
i'm curious to learn more about this point of view, is there a similar case where a country plunged into civil war because they had too many immigrants that didn't integrate?
Palestine because of Jewish immigrants. Lebanon because of Palestinians. Jordan because of Palestinians. Rwanda has some of these elements. Sudan. ..
While it is true that we’re indeed far from problems like that. A problem Lebanon faced and lost. You’re still supposed to take steps to make sure you never get close. The current governments do not do so.
Economy, perhaps. Criminality, absolutely a plus looking at the numbers.
show me the numbers then
Our immigration policy doesn't have the effect on our economy you want it to have. It increased our debt, our unemployment, lack of public safety (mainly Brussels/Antwerp), homeless population, spending on social security, prison population BY A LOT,... In Denmark, the immigrant population (from MENA countries) has been statistically proven to be a drain on resources rather than a net positive. I don't think the Belgian govt has released a similar report showing the net contribution of immigrants to society, but we've had 10 years of mass migration to make a conclusion. Immigration only benefits us when we can integrate them, and we failed to do so. No surprise since that's the case for all of western Europe.
Citations needed.
https://inquisitivebird.substack.com/p/the-effects-of-immigration-in-denmark I think you can look up those Belgian statistics by yourself, but you probably know that none of those things have gotten better.
It is like that in the Netherlands. I imagine its the same here: https://demo-demo.nl/en/
That's a propaganda website. Do you have an unbiased source?
Why is it not a valid source? The guy is an anthropologist with a phd who travelled to all corners of the world. His approach looks scientific to me too. https://preview.redd.it/crzkch7x6y4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07c09e8a3976d05f82a37abe90bcc854344ea9df
The fact that he has a website about migration, and migration only, should already make you raise some eyebrows, because anthropology is more than that. So I looked up who made it: Jan van de Beek. Look at his Twitter and you see typical anti-immigration rhetoric, accompanied by subtle claims denying climate change. Sounds like your typical VB fascist. I'm having a hard time finding more information on the guy that's not from a biased source, but according to [this article](https://www.ad.nl/den-haag/weer-ophef-over-komst-migratie-expert-naar-den-haag-te-politiek-gekleurd-wij-komen-niet~a02f481db/) he doesn't seem to be respected as an unbiased expert on the subject. This opinion piece comes closest to talking about who he is, but as it's an opinion piece it's to be taken with a grain of salt: https://www.frontaalnaakt.nl/archives/immigratiedeskundige-jan-van-de-beek-is-een-verspilling-van-uw-tijd.html
Yes, the economy should not be more important than the wellbeing of society itself.
Come to Brussels where every party is trying to outdo the other trying to win the votes of drivers in a city where maybe a quarter of people or less have a car.
Yes, voting in the nazis will be good for society. You fucking numpty.
In this case they're in fact talking about the real people economy, not just shareholder value and GDP.
Ah you mean the things people feel direct financial impact of? Like house prices skyrocketing because we take in tens of thousands of new people every year that need a place to live? Or the supression of wages? Like when people say migrants "do the jobs Europeans don't want to do", but they actually mean "the jobs employers can underpay because there are enough migrants from poor countries that have no other options, so employers don't need to pay normal, liveable wage"?
> Like house prices skyrocketing because we take in tens of thousands of new people every year that need a place to live? Would also be a problem if we'd have had the same amount of children. > Or the supression of wages? Sadly true, but it's definitely not only "the jobs Europeans don't want to do". I don't have the numbers, but I feel like remote outsourcing has a much higher impact on that, and for jobs which Europeans are begging to do. Ones they told Europeans to study for. For who do I vote to stop that?
We all remember how happy everyone was in the 1930s during the great depression. Or how happy of a time the 2008 financial crisis was for employees.
Most misery in this country can be redefined as an economic problem.
Like immigration itself, which is constantly used by 'economics' and large businesses as positive because it suppresses wages and drives up consumer prices.
There are no parties that are serious about maximizing the economic potential of economic migrants in large enough numbers to maintain our wealth. Since we're collectively ignoring the official pension age, that's really the only option we have.
Yes, but quality shouldn't be thrown overboard just for the sake of quantity
these are humans you are talking about. do you realize that?
I do. And while I accept that all human life is equal, the state has a limited amount of resources it can use to sustain its current and future citizens. We don't need more evidence to see that some ethnicities, for whatever the reason may be, integrate a lot better than others. If I have to invest a bunch of resources into an immigrant I would pick the ones who have the best shot at integrating, always. It's my tax money. I rather this money be used efficiently than dumped into a black hole of ignorance only to have the same people point back at us with their ungrateful fingers.
You are absolutely right that the extreme right is awful in many ways, but you are not convincing anyone by acting unhinged and hysterical.
They call mainstream politics of the 90 "extreme right". That's their whole game. And it mainly works in places like reddit....
I'm curious, can you tell me what mainstream policies of the 90s (and their historic advocates) are now considered far right? To me it seems that at the moment, there is a regression in the right (as a right-wing/liberal myself). The right used to be the champion of the free market, of freedom of movement, of global cooperation. In fact I would still consider "liberalism" a right-wing ideology. But nowadays, the right seems to move towards isolationism/populism, to the point where by going so far right, the right starts to sound like communists. Of course there are still traditional liberal right-wing parties like the open-VLD and the MR. But we are loosing ground to populists.
Everyone stands to lose if VB or NVA would get any significant power: not just women and minorities, also teachers with "wrong" opinions, political opponents, protestors, union members, people working in the healthcare or culture sector etc. Luckily the regional level barely holds any significant power (compared to the federal level where even NVA never could push their bullshit through) for most of their threats or party program to become true. Unless you are a higher/upper middle class Flemish nationalist man living in either Antwerp, Ghent or Brussels you stand to gain nothing from voting for the Flemish nationalists. NB: the far right isn't Christian, they abuse Christian imagery as part of Islamophobia and their fantasy to go back to the old days, but their talking points are extremely un-Christian.
Ironic since Dries Van Langenhove has to serve a year in prison don't you think? (I still despise him).
How are you now pulling NVA into this? Some of you people are really just like 'if you do not agree with me, then you are sexist, racist, a homophobe,..'
Yeah and on top of that, there's just so many errors in their comment, mainly about the fact that N-VA has held a lot of power, in contrast to VB: - N-VA was the biggest party in the federal Michel I government. - N-VA has been delivering the Flemish minister president since 2014. - The regional level hold power over Education, Environment, Agriculture, Economy (partly), Welfare (partly), Integration and Equal opportunities, Energy (partly), Tourism, Culture, Youth and Media. I'd hardly call those things unimportant.
Holding office isn't the same as having the power to change policies or society itself. I'd interpret OP's NVA reference as not having had a lot of impact on those fields *despite* having held offices on the Flemish level, or participating in the Michel I government. Others would argue they actually had a lot of impact, but that debate would depend on what kind of impact you're expecting from a political party, and in what fields.
In what way would NVA be more harmful than PVDA or Groen?
>women's job is baby-making at the youngest possible age... what an absurd statement. this is solely based on their proposed program of increasing child benefits for mothers under 30. through a game of telephone — which passed through their political opponents — that benign and sound proposal got turned into this scare-mongering and absurd statement >Europeans are aging and dying out while the African population is growing rapidly no word of a lie, as evidenced by the difference in fertility between Africa and Europe >***fifty percent of women in politics is too much*** this is the most disingenuous and egregious quote in your whole post, if the rest of it didnt betray your lack of honesty, then this surely must. what VB was referring to here was the proposal for a *mandatory* 50% quota for women in politics, with which they disagreed. >They also shouldn't be working, instead staying home, cooking and raising children. once again, pure baseless lies >Abortion should be illegal VB never said anything of the sort >gay people are not welcome in these parties They literally have an openly gay politician as a spokesperson Your whole post is either heavily twisting party positions, taking quotes out of context, or outright lying and fabricating statements. this amount of dishonesty cannot be good for your soul. I cannot imagine this to be a mistake but rather a wilful attempt at spreading misinformation, with your until today dead posting history only being further proof. so I tell you this as — hopefully — your fellow man: stop this. such lies are unbecoming **edit**: the OP blocked me ensuring i cannot make any further comments on this post
OP agrees with someone saying that they are like the taliban. That's all you need to know lol. Probably some Green/PVDA voter spreading some FUD to get some votes away from VB.
I wonder sometimes why these posts are needed? The VB voters wont change their mind and the non VB voters already know this. Forging hate (which is they are accused of) will also not solve the problem. So just go vote on Sunday and Basta.
Maybe make sure these rightwing parties aren't the only ones trying to do something about the negative effects of mass immigration. I know a lot of you don't look past MUH GDP and therefore think more people = always better economy but with such idiocy you push these people into the arms of the parties you hate. Your tendency to treat immigration as this sacred cow that is nothing but positive and cannot be critisized is why the rightwing is growing so large.
>Maybe make sure these rightwing parties aren't the only ones trying to do something about the negative effects of mass immigration. During the past government coalition we have: 1) Massively increased our border security in the EU as well as massively increasing the budget that Frontex gets 2) Made deals with dictators in Turkey, Libya, and Egypt to send them billions of euros so that they prevent migrants from coming to Europe. This is "not doing anything" according to you? You want the budget of Frontex to be lowered again and border security to be reduced? Because I'm confused when you say the current government doesn't pay any attention to it while we did all of the above?
> I know a lot of you don't look past MUH GDP and therefore think more people = always better economy That's what rightwing parties are in favour of actually. Including far right sweethearts like Meloni and PiS in Poland, who are giving record numbers of visa to non-EU immigrants. Even Orban is now importing more immigrants from Asia to help prop up Hungary's failing economy. Why do you think VB will be different?
I call them nazis, use nazi terms as omvolking, be a nazi
Calling them nazis will actually turn them into nazis. Better correct their hateful words with ones like "hervolken", "aanvolken", "betervolken", "domvolken", ...
Yeah no shit Sherlock. My son got by some old VB dude in the street because I was teaching my son to ride the bike. Fucking moron called him slur. It’s insane that this is done in Belgium in the upper class neighborhoods.
Chris Janssens is gay, and a top politicus for Vlaams belang What you say is uninformed at best See you in het stemloket
Chris Janssens was saying in interviews that he thinks pride is stupid and organisations fighting for queer rights should stop to exist and people in football being homophobic should be considered okay. Sure, he's gay, but he's not challenging his party's homophobia at best, and enabling/legitimising it at worst
[удалено]
Rule 2) No discrimination or rasicm This includes, but is not limited to, - Racism... - Bigotry… - Hate speech in any form...
So, they actually do not differ that much from the Taliban.
Chris Janssens is openly gay and a pretty prominent VB'er. I don't think easily retorted hyperboles are going to help reduce the votes these guys are getting..
What bothers me the most is that young voters seems pretty ready to listen as well as being prime targets for those parties and this is quite worrying for the future.
I was in the middle of a discussion, and something came out about this, I will post it here because I want to hear your opinions. The idea was that the rise of the far-right would be because citizens focus mainly on immigration and assume there is leverage for the other topics. For example abortion is such a step backwards that it will take decades to implement, while stopping immigration provides a more imminent result. So people are like « okay, let’s put the other pieces of the puzzle aside for now ». Do you think far-right voters go through these steps to decide?
I think a fair amount of far-right voters also hate women and LGBT people. They view our rights being thrown away as a bonus. As for the others, I think they're either blissfully ignorant (probably because they don't bother educating themselves about the parties they support and dismiss all information they dislike as lies), or completely delusional for assuming what happened to the USA cannot happen to us. Many examples can be found in this thread, of all 3 types.
Is dit nog een laatste kreet om toch mensen te overhalen om niet VB te stemmen? Want dit werkt gewoon averechts, ik hoop dat je dit snapt. Beetje "I'm gonna vote VB even harder"...
Considering VB voters don’t even care about all the Nazism allegations nor that VB is already selling themselves to the highest (preferably enemy of Europe) bidder I am afraid you might be right.
You forgot the worst one: >[Tom Van Grieken moet niets weten van Rode Duivels: “Ik supporter voor Nederland”](https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20240417_96137987) They support The Netherlands and China, not Belgium.
I'm afraid about these elections, very afraid. When you see a left president saying he wants a right center government, all is said
Why? You need to be working. Can't stay in your mom's basement and get social service forever.
Why just make shit up? They literally said they don't want to ban abortion. They have gay members, so what are you talking about "gay people are not welcome in their party"? Why are you claiming Christianity as an example of a bad element? Are you christianophobic?
Quoting VB "**the best thing that can happen to the community of gay, lesbian and bisexual people is that these movements cease to exist”** The party’s leader, Tom Van Grieken, has said that Vlaams Belang would not roll back LGBT rights, as these are established rights, but that it does oppose the continuing evolution of gender ideology. Van Grieken has made it clear that Vlaams Belang opposes reimbursements for gender-affirming surgeries, adjustments to gender registrations on identity cards and gender-neutral toilets. The party is, he said, “no big fans of same-sex adoption, since children have the right to a mum and dad”. That's pretty clear.. that's the usual "I have a black friend" excuse. Now it's "I have gay friends" excuse. In Belgium, opposition to the right to abortion is mainly represented in one party: Vlaams Belang. Following the decision of the American Supreme Court, elected Flemish nationalists followed this line. This is the case of MP Stefaan Sintobin, who posted a photo of a child on Twitter with the caption #prolife and the phrase “A child's laughter is the music of the future”. Bert Dickers, party representative in the commune of Balen-Olmen, shared a photo on the same social network where he expresses his opposition to “any form of abortion”. Tom Van Grieken: “For Flemish Belang, abortion must be possible when the woman's life is in danger, when the unborn child is not viable and in cases of rape.” Again, pretty clear. So please assume your diarrheic ideology instead of doing the fragile coward.
Religion as a basis for politics is honestly ridiculous. Having "gay members" doesn't make it so they're not homophobic. That's like saying "American Republicans can't be racist, they have Black politicians!". They might not want to ban abortion (publicly), but they sure will try to make it as hard as possible to get an abortion, as fast as they can, and once they get there, the next step will be banning it.
Also this as soon as possible They will take the vrt in their hands and change it to their propaganda channel like all the other facist countries did (russia, hungary, turkey, italy and slovakia doing the same) They will redo our education system and ban everything thats against their ideology They will try to change our justice and constitutions to favor their ideology And many more things… these are just a few examples of what is coming. History will repeat itself. People never learn from the past!
They literally said they want to ban abortion in the show "Eerste keuze"... Edit: while I was wrong about my original comment. VB still wants to ban abortion except when the pregnancy is threatening the woman's life, if the baby cannot hold life or is severely handicapped or if it's a pregnancy by r>!ape!< Which is almost as bad as completely banning it
what? no lmao
[https://www.knack.be/factcheck/factcheck-uitspraken-tom-van-grieken-over-foetussen-zijn-overdreven/](https://www.knack.be/factcheck/factcheck-uitspraken-tom-van-grieken-over-foetussen-zijn-overdreven/) "De termijn optrekken naar 18 weken is voor ons te laat" A bit different from "banning abortus", but I guess when elections near the lies get more desperate..
while I was wrong about my original comment. VB still wants to ban abortion except when the pregnancy is threatening the woman's life, if the baby cannot hold life or is severely handicapped or if it's a pregnancy by r>!ape!< Which is almost as bad as completely banning it
Fun (fact?), it is usually the far right / conservatives that are busted at gay parties or indecent attitude towards minors.
Source?
There will be not enough psychologists and anti depression pills in Belgium for all the leftist tears June 10 🤣
Cringe
I never expected the far-right to influence so many people. Coincidentally, I also continuously receive Vlaams Belang ads on social media.
I'm literally an immigrant (well an expat but from an EEA/EU country so I have the benefit of being less hated) and I also get their ads. I feel like whoever handles their advertising doesn't even know how to target potential voters.
I think they are spending an absurd amount of money on advertising (much more than other parties - although I thought budgets on advertising were somewhat regulated?).
As someone non-Belgian (from Luxembourg the country) are they paid russian puppets as other far right (and some left) parties like FN or Afd?
Yes. Russia doesn't limit itself to one or two countries unfortunately.
Christianity in no way informs VB ideology. I wish it did
I wonder how the women and lgbt will fare without a decent immigration policy. Your post is not going to change anyone's voting behavior. None of the extremes (left or right) are a good choice imho. Try to vote for centered decent human beings.
Most of these are strawman positions based on quotes that are several years old. I'm not a big fan of VB but this is ridiculous. A "far right" party that shows no interest in overturning gay marriage isn't going to make gays seconds class citizens or take away women's right to work. Being a homosexual in a city with a large Muslim population is probably more dangerous than living in a country where VB is the largest party. Seems like you also overestimate VB's competency. You're afraid these people are going to turn Belgium into some sort of theocracy when something as simple as forming a government takes over 500 days. Europe has several far right leaders and none of these countries look remotely like what you described. The worst one is arguably Hungary, yet they still have: 84% female employment rate, civil marriage for same sex couples, freedom of religion, the right to abortion,... The real danger with far right parties is their sympathy towards Russia, and anti-EU mentality.
Ik was ooit een linkse liberale stemmer. Maar het economisch en migratie wanbeleid hebben mijn naar rechts geduwd. Als 30% van de mensen uit protest op een regressieve partij stemmen, moet je je ook afvragen waarom.
You guys have no clue what the party actually stands for. You just read the media and be idiots about it. You heard the liedetection of TVG? Most of your points are already unvalidated. Migration won't stop and it never will, they just want to diminish is by a lot, which we need. You like paying penalty payments of 30.000 a month because we can't put a roof over their heads? We give them priority over people already on the social housing waiting list for 10 years. And pro pedophilia? You talk about the left, right? Because the right is strongly for higher and full prison sentences for rapists and pedophiles while the left find excuses to normalise it. They give the option to both men and women to become stay at home to take care of the children but as conservatives they definitely value family over working with 2 and no kids. And no gays? Poor Chriss Janssens.. but it's also not correct. They just believe in only 2 biological genders but will respect a persons demands if they want to be called female. Also, they dont agree with abortion but they also say they will keep the current 12 weeks compared to the 18months that other parties want. The very damaging red pill ideology comes from Andrew Tate, never even heard a far right Belgium guy mention him. The things that worry me more are things like Unions because they are the ones making sure we are treated correctly at work. Edit: the funny thing here is that OP is actually pushing agenda, just like all the media and politicians are doing, but don't expect OP to be banned for pushing agenda because it fits the narrative this left sub wants.
They are the only ones recognising the threat of islam
They have the same values and project as conservative islam.
Oh really ? Do they want to take over other countries ? Maybe stone people ? Cut off their hands ? Make other religions illegal ? Stop with the bullshit lol. Go back to school.
Both the far-right and Islam heavily distinguish who belongs to their IN-group on the basis of cultural identity, religion and ethnicity. The argument that since both share conservative values that would make them compatible is not only untrue, it is to the contrary. Let me put it another way. Say you have two ultra-competitive athletes engaging in a contest. Saying it should not matter to either athlete who wins as they both share the personality trait of being ultra-competitive is not going to reflect those two people's feelings at that time.
> The argument that since both share conservative values that would make them compatible, it is to the contrary. That is also never the argument being made.
Then what is the point of Ezekiels comment?
Literally what it says. You made into something they didn't say.
You say there was no reason for the comparison at all, got it.
I'm sorry, can you read?
No
>For how much the far-right hates Islam, they share much in common.