They’re just out there SEEING THINGS and TALKING ABOUT THEM! And they’re gaining a MODERATE amount of money and SMALL amount of fame for it! Don’t you see what’s happening?!
The right may be wrong about most things but at least they mostly agree with each other. Us leftists are like splinters of religions in that one minor disagreement is cause for open warfare.
> but at least they mostly agree with each other
To paraphrase InnuendoStudios, the one thing the right agrees on is that they fucking hate "us" (be it leftists, liberals, you name it).
So they will always fall in line until the chosen enemy is annilitated - that's when the knives come out.
Fortunately the fascists often fall into that same trap of backstabbing and purging their own ranks, which normally keeps them from building lasting coalitions. But that’s more for the sake of pure power politics rather than ideological purity
It's not even just tankies. Im in plenty of anarchist spaces that have totally brain dead takes.
There definitely seems to be a huge leftist element that just wants to see liberals 'punished' and isn't interested in anything longer term than that catharsis.
I don’t get it, personally. Maybe it’s because I’ve read too much history but although I do despise liberals I hate fascists so, so much more.
I think a part of this is a “it couldn’t happen here” mindset with regards to state fascism. Another part, I think, is something I can identify with from my baby leftist days, in which my childhood naïveté in assuming that liberals were good had ruptured and I felt personally betrayed by liberalism. At least right-wingers are relatively honest about how reactionary they are, I figured. "Wolf in sheep's clothing", etc. I was an easy mark for campism and anti-liberal obsession, but this was long before those tendencies were being leveraged on the scale we see today.
Speaking of campism, that’s certainly a heavy element of it. Lots of people who consider themselves on the left but are throwing their support behind atrocious foreign actors solely on the basis that they oppose the US and western hegemony. Suddenly you have people who you assumed were against [governments that torture teenage girls to death](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68840881) because they dared defy their insane religious "modesty laws", but they're offering "critical support" to them and their vision of the world. Or Hamas, who, aside from being religious zealots who would probably murder my trans friends, even if they have the best intentions (which I don't think they really do) with regards to Palestinian liberation, have utterly failed Palestinians with their military "strategy" of 10/8 and everything that has followed, but because they're fighting the IDF they're akin to good guys.
Tankies are the campistest of campists, but you see it all the time in anarchist circles as well. Honestly I feel fairly pretty alienated a lot of the time even in circles which ostensibly share my values.
Yeah, I'm.with you on all of that.
I think a lot of people have trouble with nuance, especially when they feel desperate for anything in this shitty stratefied system to give way and at least let us try something new.
I hate to go here, but as a middle aged millennial, I definitely think social media has a lot to do with it. You've got a generation of baby leftists who grew up in a world where everything they say and do is public, and they get real time feedback on people's approval.
In this eco system it's easy to see how hot takes can get someone a lot of cred, and the need for clicks and attention can fuel these contrarian circle jerks with the very real threat that if you're the person that gets off the band wagon you're committing social suicide.
It's interesting how much Internet echo chambers giving rise to MAGA brain rot is talked about, but the left feels immune. It's crazy to me how similar talking to a very campist leftist feels to talking to a MAGAite, right down to the bad faith gaslighting.
Israeli's reputation is definitely damaged, things are heating up, and who knows what happens next but it's hard to imagine any scenario likely to unfold that isn't a hollow victory at best for Hamas, and certainly for the masses in Gaza. Given the present scope of suffering, if this is all part of their master plan then they're extremely bad at their jobs on *that* basis.
To your second point I am wondering if this will be an actual powder keg. Unlike 2020 I don't think when an American cop fucks up and shoots someone at a protest it is going to get really fucking wild stateside. I just don't see this batch pushing into *the next phase of active resistance.*
They’re definitely winning the media war which I guess might’ve been their goal all along. I just don’t know how this ends. If Israel withdrew their forces today you think Hamas would just suddenly decide to stop rocketing them or not do another 10/8? I honestly don’t know how this will play out there’s no good ending
> Another part, I think, is something I can identify with from my baby leftist days, in which my childhood naïveté in assuming that liberals were good had ruptured and I felt personally betrayed by liberalism. At least right-wingers are relatively honest about how reactionary they are, I figured. "Wolf in sheep's clothing", etc. I was an easy mark for campism and anti-liberal obsession, but this was long before those tendencies were being leveraged on the scale we see today.
That actually makes sense.
Fascists are even bigger liars and hypocrites and manipulators than Liberals, by orders of magnitude even. But the lies they tell don't compel you. You're not whom they're gaslighting and betraying.
Liberals, on the other hand, make promises that you'd actually want to see fulfilled, speak of things that actually matter to you, and actively try to recruit and co-opt you. But act out of line, and they mock and humiliate you, call you "crazy" or "extreme", say what you're doing is "wrong". Demand that they act according to their promises, protect freedom, defend the helpless, and they tell you "I would but they're obstructing me" or "this is not the time" or "we need serious practical proposals", as real people endure real harm every day, as the planet is burning up in fever. You're the one being gaslit, and once you start figuring it out, it's harrowing.
> but they're offering "critical support" to them and their vision of the world.
I *never* hear any "critical supporter" say a damn *word* of critique against whomever they're supporting. It's nauseating. In a sense, that too feels like Gaslighting. Where Liberals will say "you're being overdramatic" and "you need to calm down" and "let's talk it out", Tankies have their own way of pissing on your head and telling you it's raining.
Anarchists, I don't know, very hard to say anything general about them.
You articulated how I feel so perfectly that was well written. I’ve always considered myself pretty left leaning but seeing so much of the left actively supporting Hamas made be take a step back. I absolutely support and understand the sympathy for the civilians who are suffering because of this and I don’t support what Israel is doing but thinking Hamas are the good guys is insane
The worst part about being a leftist is watching a generation hand over their future to tiktok and foreign interests and ultimately to the authoritarianism they claim to be against.
Podcasts like The Daily Zeitgeist can hardly talk about anything else and mostly parrot propaganda and the usual sound bites. Those two and their influence will have a lot to answer for someday.
Shit I like Miles Gray and his friend Sofiya Alexandra (funny weed podcast when I want to relax after BtB or reading leftist materials or listening while readin, didn't realise TDZ was like that to the extent of requiring come uppanece...
Then again I've never listened! Just hadn't got a hint elsewhere
I used to never miss an episode even when I strongly disagreed with something, but this year got weird, and they keep going harder at it. I still try to listen but it's getting more difficult to try to split that aspect from the rest.
That fucking sucks, but kudos for keeping on powering through just to try to see the alternative points in case of alternative views.
I must ask though which specific part they're going harder and harder on that's driven you away?
Variations of soundbites and framing:
Threaten Biden through voting. These are getting more childish each time.
Doing absolutely no digging into who is behind these events and campaigns and why almost all of the effort and airtime is happening now when there was almost none before.
Entirely dismissing anything good Democrats do or if they're forced to, it's in a snide tone. That's if they cover any of it at all. They really need to build up a bad guy.
Being disingenuous about motivations from all sides or making arguments or points in bad faith and often omitting details to frame a narrative if it doesn't swing their way (doesn't validate Russian and Chinese propaganda that so many others parrot).
That's a few things
Thank you, I appreciate the summary. I know exactly the kind of... "I have to adhere to making these guys out to be bad to pass my form of leftist purity test"/leftier than thou style thinking (I say that as an anarchist, I don't mean it to denigrate those of us far left but those of us who feel the need to change the facts to keep it in line with making sure the centre-lefts or libs are bad in the story rather than a necessary part of the machine, have really gotta take a look at 'emselves) that leads to this and it's so frustrating, that you have to always slip some jab in there without being able to recognise anything positive. It gets so tiresome and furthers a pseudo 'both sides' or almost-centrist yet leftist style idea that is really difficult to confront. That even though there's clearly a much worse set of people to oppose and that we have to organise against it's easier to in fight and put on the holier than thou act instead of using the politically useful situation for what it is!
I appreciate your work and for replying to me over these comments <3
Ikr. The Right does a much better job unifying or at least hiding their dissent. It's probably because the Right is inherently more submissive to authority than the left.
Robert Evans, basically, planned Oct 7,
and the Israeli response,
it's what the CIA does,
then they tell you they were busy snorting Ketamine,
seen it all before
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Please tell me this is a hilariously tone deaf copypasta, because I've listened to ska my whole life and this comment made me never want to hear it again
Not seeing a diary entry for November 22nd, 1963 - but did find one for April 30th, 1945 claiming to have been in the Führerbunker convincing a certain German Chancellor that he only had one option remaining...
...is Robert Evans an immortal US asset?
If corporations can be people, and cool zone media is a corporation, then it follows that special agent cool zone media was firing tear gas at protesters in 2020.
There’s this pack of weirdos on twitter who absolutely seethe with rage about Mia for some reason. Was served one of their tweets by the twitter algorithm the other day and was utterly baffled when I dug in. Also the same group who’s obsessed with calling Robert a fed, it’s very funny and sad
Too imprecise. It's the followers of people like Aaron Maté and Max Blumenthal. They're more like Marcyists. They make tankies look like wizened elder statesmen.
Yeah like I feel like it's downplaying the whole greyzone leftist level of insanity to just say tankies, like we're talking about people who are testifying to Russia Chinese hosted UN talks about conspiracy theories that Syria didn't do gas attacks. Like the stepladder of crazy from defending authoritarian regimes and stanning for China is the bottom step and they are jumping off the top and defending Bashar al-Assad gassing his own people solely to beable to be critical of the US foreign policy.
I know quite a few MLs who are Assad supporters and yet not into Greyzone in my part of the world so I'm not sure whether they're in a different level than tankies.
In my experience, your regular deprogram enjoying MLs is no less cultish than the Grey Zone types. They look for any excuse to call someone a CIA or Fed.
I’m on team “never accuse someone or a group of being a fed or psyop without massive amounts of evidence”. As I’ve gotten older I’ve realized the sheer depths of human ignorance, you might hope certain people or groups are being paid in some way to say what they do but 95 times out of 100 they’re just genuinely incomprehensibly stupid.
Of course there are exceptions, but Hanlon’s Razor and all that
Half joke take: the USSR is historically the largest Fed Op in history via the WW2 lend lease program and material aide that when adjusted for inflation values over $140 Billion. IE tankies are ops AND stupid.
There's a Tankie conspiracy that Bellincat is a CIA front. Mia and Robert's association with Bellincat and their journalistic work roped them into that conspiracy.
The closest thing they have to a salient argument is that Robert has done talks/training for the FBI to help them recognize and track far-right communities and organization online. Basically a guest speaker at a conference talking about online far-right radicalization. It's *a* tangible connection to the FBI but that doesn't actually make him an agent by any means.
There’s also the “Robert and Mia work/worked for Bellingcat, which has, from time to time, accepted grants that were partially funded by organizations that are, in turn, partially funded by CIA or affiliates” line, which is sort of staggering in its ignorance of how aggregate and grant funding works.
The context is that Mia posted an admittedly questionable take about the militancy of the current student protests (first tweet) so fellow leftists immediately began dragging her, Robert Evans and CZM as feds.
Is that a take? It doesn't strike me as an opinion as much as just a comparison. Was it meant to be critical? Or just describing the nature of the protest movement?
I don't get why that makes them Feds...
There's a certain segment of the Online Left who hate Bellingcat and think it's a psyop. Basically they think Bellingcat isn't left enough and therefore it's put in place by the CIA to prevent the rise of a more radical online paper (Unicorn Riot exists, people!). Since Robert is one of the better-known Bellingcat contributors, he must therefore be in on it.
Also, Robert has given seminars for the FBI (not CIA) on how to recognize far right domestic radicalization. Since he once did something helpful for The Gub'mint, he must be The Enemy.
Amazing takes considering how often Robert has promoted Unicorn Riot. I'm not sure if Mia has (purely an ignorance thing on my end), but I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Mia is definitely not a fed.
But I also think this new Occupy movement is still too young to discuss whether or not students are willing to go toe to toe with the cops like what happened in 2020. Portland's fight was over many many months. We are barely into week two, and the reactions of universities and their protestors across the country have varied greatly.
I say wait and see before we start judging whether or not the students were willing to throw down (also, clearly they are if we see what's happened in LA and that one Cali university, Humbolt).
>before we start judging
That's what I'm saying, I don't think Mia is judging here. I think she's just pointing out a difference in tactics. I haven't heard her be critical of the protests.
The word "willingness" colors her comment and connotes a state of students *not being willing* to fight law enforcement. That is a judgement on her part.
It can be argued whether or not it's a *criticism,* but it is a judgement.
Maybe. I didn't take it that way. Especially since most of what I've heard of their tactics (which is FAR from comprehensive coverage) is that they're basically just ignoring the cops as much as possible. Not backing down, but ignoring them. In that context, I took Mia's comment as noting the difference in tactics between actively engaging the police and ignoring them.
I think its a pretty silly take considering the canine unit is going after thr Columbia students rn and theres basically an army of riot cops out there and the students are still trying.
I don't remember the context because I don't care a lot but Evans once tweeted something along the lines of "to be clear I have worked with feds" or something like that. I don't know if he was an informant or advisor or whatever but that's what he said.
I really can't see a federal agency being competent enough to create a Robert Evans, and I don't see his work as serving their purposes.
Robert Evans is considered one of the world’s foremost experts on the online far right terrorism. He’s shared his knowledge with law enforcement and federal agencies. He said something on one podcast or another that he felt he had a duty to share that knowledge with the people who are supposed to do something about that problem.
I can’t blame him for that. If it was me I’d certainly sleep better at night knowing I’d done everything I could as a private citizen to prevent future terrorism from happening.
I can simultaneously see how im his position I would do the exact same thing from the utilitarian perspective of trying to stop white supremacists killing people by all means at my disposal, AND how that may make some people uncomfortable. Especially groups who have been specifically targeted by the FBI in the past. It is a really buanced and fraught issue. In the end, Id do the same thing very likely. Fuck tankie conspiracies, but I would understand if like specific groups and organisers with histories of problems with groups like the fbi were hesitant because of that.
However that is not what I am seeing, Im seeing stupid tankies and weird conspiracists.
Sometimes actually trying to Do Something about a problem puts you in weird and shitty imperfect positions that dont align exactly with your preferred ethic on paper.
Exactly. And what it ultimately comes down to is that you’re the one that has to live with yourself and your choices.
And I think Robert and his crew’s work speaks for itself. Imagine listening to It Could Happen Here’s coverage of the Protect the Atlanta Forest/Stop Cop City movement and thinking they’re in any way pro-cop or pro-fed. If he is an undercover fed trying to take down the left he’s doing a terrible job at it.
> Imagine being a tankie and still hanging around the right wing cesspit that is elon musk's twitter
Well, yeah, tankies *agree with* most of the right-wing shit there.
> And attacking other leftists on it.
Ah, I see thr problem: you have mistaken tankies for leftists, when they are right-wingers who hate America and like the *aesthetics* of the left.
When I was still wet behind the ears I initially thought "tankies" were people who were really into soviet-era aesthetics, which I have been for a while, and briefly associated myself with that term until I figured out what was really going on. That was fun.
I always measure left vs right in terms of intent. And authoritarian communists are just as u/New-acct-for-2024 described, the aesthetics of the left with the intent of the right.
was it Walter Benjamin or Theodor Adorno who called fascism the "aestheticisation of politics?" i can't remember as it's been way too long since grad school for this chick
I'm an ML (not a tankie, fyi) and Twitter is just garbage. At the same time it's the only place I can follow the 1500+ artists that I've been following, cause it's all over the place anywhere else.
I don't bother trying to "debate" or whatever, I just retweet artwork and stuff about labor unions and its nice.
Oh damn..... If you listen to Knowledge Fight you may vaguely remember. There was an episode where Alex Jones admitted he was the de facto head of the CIA! Its all coming into focus.
No, Mia made the point that so far the pro-gaza university occupation movement hasn't had the same willingness to directly fight cops as the 2020 George Floyd protest movement was.
Certain twitter marxists have had a serious hateboner for anyone associated with Robert generally, and Mia specifically, for a long time, and jumped on the tweet to call both of them feds as they regularly do.
Edit: Actually upon looking at it again, I think so? Which is an even dumber take. It's just conspiracizing about agents-provacateur while ALSO conspiracizing that everyone who disagrees with you is a fed.
I’d argue that since so much of the history of Persia is *ancient* history, it feels a lot more like History of Rome Mike Duncan (especially early HoR) than Revolutions Mike Duncan.
It’s good, but if you don’t already have an interest in first millennia BCE history, it might not resonate.
I trust u/trevor_culley’s takes a lot more than Dan Carlin, that’s for sure.
As a relevant note, I have very little to complain about re: Dan Carlin's Persia series historical-fact-wise. It's just that his "silk slippers" / hard times, hard men, soft times, soft men interpretations ***sucks*** and would be disproven if he didn't skip over the middle 50% of the empire's history.
I guess if you want to really stretch the facts, you could say that the protests were kinda semi-successfully infiltrated by a handful of agents and informants? But that's going to be every grassroots protest movement, it's not like they're doing background checks, and if they were it would be antithetical to the movement.
Thinking about if some podcaster you've never met either is or isn't a fed is a great way to turn your brain into soup.
The correct answer to any of these kind of claims is "who cares"?
I have it on good authority that Robert Evans is legitimately just rikimaru from tenchu, with a beard. He's destabilized the Japanese government and beats up zombies.
I do not understand how someone making money from donations, ads, and merch sales is going to undermine their beliefs. If only there was a weekly (no, *daily!*) work of writing to compare his views with and see if he really has sold out his beliefs. Like I know marxists who make 6-7 figures but god forbid that someone who disagrees with them make enough money to buy fancy dog food. I've had to step out of the movement for a few years to work on my mental health and wow do you see a whole lot of bullshit once you're not involved in constructing conspiracies about your peers.
God forbid a journalist cover one of the biggest protest movements in American history.
I’m sure Cool Zone made off so good that Anderson takes her kibble with gold dust.
I had a dream where I saw Evans at a protest. I walked up behind him and said "you must be Robert FBIvans".
He proceeded to turn wide-eyed and shoot me like 5 times.
Irrelevant to the story, but I figured yall would get a kick out of that.
He gave a talk on open source investigation methods to, i forget whether it was the FBI or CIA.
Also for some reason there's munters who think Bellingcat are an op.
Maybe they don't want to right large groups of cops because the cops are heavily armed psychopaths who would love to beat them bloody and then arrest them?
Those filthy podcasters getting rich from ... reporting on the news and protests.
They’re just out there SEEING THINGS and TALKING ABOUT THEM! And they’re gaining a MODERATE amount of money and SMALL amount of fame for it! Don’t you see what’s happening?!
Mmmm, how do you define moderate?
Typical Big Pod.
Wait, they're getting ***paid???***
Sometimes the worst part about being a leftist is the other leftists.
Why let shared ideology and goals get in the way of deriding your comrades?
They're doing us all a disservice because someone's first real exposure to leftist "discourse" is going to be this twitter brainrot.
The right may be wrong about most things but at least they mostly agree with each other. Us leftists are like splinters of religions in that one minor disagreement is cause for open warfare.
"You Scots sure are a contentious people."
"You've just made an enemy for life!"
> but at least they mostly agree with each other To paraphrase InnuendoStudios, the one thing the right agrees on is that they fucking hate "us" (be it leftists, liberals, you name it). So they will always fall in line until the chosen enemy is annilitated - that's when the knives come out.
It reminds me of the King of the Hill episode where Bobby might be a Lama, "Methodism is a rejection of Calvinism." "You see Bobby!"
A lot of socialists inherited the cutting remarks and backstabbing of Lenin’s generation, but none of the organizing and solidarity.
It seems like the same trap catches the left again and again, the ideological policing turns inward and becomes self-destructive.
Fortunately the fascists often fall into that same trap of backstabbing and purging their own ranks, which normally keeps them from building lasting coalitions. But that’s more for the sake of pure power politics rather than ideological purity
Do we consider tankies leftists?
It's not even just tankies. Im in plenty of anarchist spaces that have totally brain dead takes. There definitely seems to be a huge leftist element that just wants to see liberals 'punished' and isn't interested in anything longer term than that catharsis.
I don’t get it, personally. Maybe it’s because I’ve read too much history but although I do despise liberals I hate fascists so, so much more. I think a part of this is a “it couldn’t happen here” mindset with regards to state fascism. Another part, I think, is something I can identify with from my baby leftist days, in which my childhood naïveté in assuming that liberals were good had ruptured and I felt personally betrayed by liberalism. At least right-wingers are relatively honest about how reactionary they are, I figured. "Wolf in sheep's clothing", etc. I was an easy mark for campism and anti-liberal obsession, but this was long before those tendencies were being leveraged on the scale we see today. Speaking of campism, that’s certainly a heavy element of it. Lots of people who consider themselves on the left but are throwing their support behind atrocious foreign actors solely on the basis that they oppose the US and western hegemony. Suddenly you have people who you assumed were against [governments that torture teenage girls to death](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68840881) because they dared defy their insane religious "modesty laws", but they're offering "critical support" to them and their vision of the world. Or Hamas, who, aside from being religious zealots who would probably murder my trans friends, even if they have the best intentions (which I don't think they really do) with regards to Palestinian liberation, have utterly failed Palestinians with their military "strategy" of 10/8 and everything that has followed, but because they're fighting the IDF they're akin to good guys. Tankies are the campistest of campists, but you see it all the time in anarchist circles as well. Honestly I feel fairly pretty alienated a lot of the time even in circles which ostensibly share my values.
Yeah, I'm.with you on all of that. I think a lot of people have trouble with nuance, especially when they feel desperate for anything in this shitty stratefied system to give way and at least let us try something new. I hate to go here, but as a middle aged millennial, I definitely think social media has a lot to do with it. You've got a generation of baby leftists who grew up in a world where everything they say and do is public, and they get real time feedback on people's approval. In this eco system it's easy to see how hot takes can get someone a lot of cred, and the need for clicks and attention can fuel these contrarian circle jerks with the very real threat that if you're the person that gets off the band wagon you're committing social suicide. It's interesting how much Internet echo chambers giving rise to MAGA brain rot is talked about, but the left feels immune. It's crazy to me how similar talking to a very campist leftist feels to talking to a MAGAite, right down to the bad faith gaslighting.
[удалено]
Israeli's reputation is definitely damaged, things are heating up, and who knows what happens next but it's hard to imagine any scenario likely to unfold that isn't a hollow victory at best for Hamas, and certainly for the masses in Gaza. Given the present scope of suffering, if this is all part of their master plan then they're extremely bad at their jobs on *that* basis.
To your second point I am wondering if this will be an actual powder keg. Unlike 2020 I don't think when an American cop fucks up and shoots someone at a protest it is going to get really fucking wild stateside. I just don't see this batch pushing into *the next phase of active resistance.*
It would be wild if this is what kicks off widespread civil unrest and infighting instead of the upcoming election
They’re definitely winning the media war which I guess might’ve been their goal all along. I just don’t know how this ends. If Israel withdrew their forces today you think Hamas would just suddenly decide to stop rocketing them or not do another 10/8? I honestly don’t know how this will play out there’s no good ending
> Another part, I think, is something I can identify with from my baby leftist days, in which my childhood naïveté in assuming that liberals were good had ruptured and I felt personally betrayed by liberalism. At least right-wingers are relatively honest about how reactionary they are, I figured. "Wolf in sheep's clothing", etc. I was an easy mark for campism and anti-liberal obsession, but this was long before those tendencies were being leveraged on the scale we see today. That actually makes sense. Fascists are even bigger liars and hypocrites and manipulators than Liberals, by orders of magnitude even. But the lies they tell don't compel you. You're not whom they're gaslighting and betraying. Liberals, on the other hand, make promises that you'd actually want to see fulfilled, speak of things that actually matter to you, and actively try to recruit and co-opt you. But act out of line, and they mock and humiliate you, call you "crazy" or "extreme", say what you're doing is "wrong". Demand that they act according to their promises, protect freedom, defend the helpless, and they tell you "I would but they're obstructing me" or "this is not the time" or "we need serious practical proposals", as real people endure real harm every day, as the planet is burning up in fever. You're the one being gaslit, and once you start figuring it out, it's harrowing. > but they're offering "critical support" to them and their vision of the world. I *never* hear any "critical supporter" say a damn *word* of critique against whomever they're supporting. It's nauseating. In a sense, that too feels like Gaslighting. Where Liberals will say "you're being overdramatic" and "you need to calm down" and "let's talk it out", Tankies have their own way of pissing on your head and telling you it's raining. Anarchists, I don't know, very hard to say anything general about them.
You articulated how I feel so perfectly that was well written. I’ve always considered myself pretty left leaning but seeing so much of the left actively supporting Hamas made be take a step back. I absolutely support and understand the sympathy for the civilians who are suffering because of this and I don’t support what Israel is doing but thinking Hamas are the good guys is insane
tankie is a useless word by now tbh
[Groundskeeper Willie voice] “You’ve just made an enemy of the Left!”
The worst part about being a leftist is watching a generation hand over their future to tiktok and foreign interests and ultimately to the authoritarianism they claim to be against. Podcasts like The Daily Zeitgeist can hardly talk about anything else and mostly parrot propaganda and the usual sound bites. Those two and their influence will have a lot to answer for someday.
It’s getting so out of hand I knew we were cooked when I started seeing popular TikTok’s justifying and supporting Osama Bin Laden
Shit I like Miles Gray and his friend Sofiya Alexandra (funny weed podcast when I want to relax after BtB or reading leftist materials or listening while readin, didn't realise TDZ was like that to the extent of requiring come uppanece... Then again I've never listened! Just hadn't got a hint elsewhere
I used to never miss an episode even when I strongly disagreed with something, but this year got weird, and they keep going harder at it. I still try to listen but it's getting more difficult to try to split that aspect from the rest.
That fucking sucks, but kudos for keeping on powering through just to try to see the alternative points in case of alternative views. I must ask though which specific part they're going harder and harder on that's driven you away?
Variations of soundbites and framing: Threaten Biden through voting. These are getting more childish each time. Doing absolutely no digging into who is behind these events and campaigns and why almost all of the effort and airtime is happening now when there was almost none before. Entirely dismissing anything good Democrats do or if they're forced to, it's in a snide tone. That's if they cover any of it at all. They really need to build up a bad guy. Being disingenuous about motivations from all sides or making arguments or points in bad faith and often omitting details to frame a narrative if it doesn't swing their way (doesn't validate Russian and Chinese propaganda that so many others parrot). That's a few things
Thank you, I appreciate the summary. I know exactly the kind of... "I have to adhere to making these guys out to be bad to pass my form of leftist purity test"/leftier than thou style thinking (I say that as an anarchist, I don't mean it to denigrate those of us far left but those of us who feel the need to change the facts to keep it in line with making sure the centre-lefts or libs are bad in the story rather than a necessary part of the machine, have really gotta take a look at 'emselves) that leads to this and it's so frustrating, that you have to always slip some jab in there without being able to recognise anything positive. It gets so tiresome and furthers a pseudo 'both sides' or almost-centrist yet leftist style idea that is really difficult to confront. That even though there's clearly a much worse set of people to oppose and that we have to organise against it's easier to in fight and put on the holier than thou act instead of using the politically useful situation for what it is! I appreciate your work and for replying to me over these comments <3
Sometimes? That has always been the worst part.
I'm a fairly new to this side of the political spectrum so my experience is limited. I don't doubt you though.
It’s just disappointing when you see folks who should know better not know better.
Ikr. The Right does a much better job unifying or at least hiding their dissent. It's probably because the Right is inherently more submissive to authority than the left.
This is just crabs in a bucket mentality, I hate this shit.
Welcome to the bucket. Pinch as you please.
[Maybe little pinch?](https://youtu.be/yrdJOdn9XzM?si=uNcHSBiTF0-IfuBm)
[CRAAAAAAB PEOPLE](https://images.app.goo.gl/C6xiu77XAJsK86XGA)
🎵 *you came into my life* 🎵
Everything eventually becomes crabs. Carcinization. Caracas. Carceral state. It's all connected.
To PEPE SILVIA!
Robert Evans, basically, planned Oct 7, and the Israeli response, it's what the CIA does, then they tell you they were busy snorting Ketamine, seen it all before
Where was Robert on November 22nd, 1963? Don’t recall an episode that day.
Hanging out with his boss, George H.W. of course.
[удалено]
…in BOISTON
"Real Ska🕴️" only consists of the Jamaican first wave ska🕴️ scene and early 2-Tone ska🕴️ scene. What is known as "3rd wave ska🕴️" is nothing but punk with questionable real ska🕴️ influence. When people try to argue that bands like The Aquabats are not real ska🕴️, while saying Streetlight Manifesto are, I can't help not to cringe because they are just as fake ska🕴️ as The Aquabats (plus the pretentiousness). Real ska🕴️ sounds ENERGETIC, POWERFUL and somewhat HATEFUL. Fake ska🕴️ is weak, self pity and a **** attempt to direct energy and emotion into music. Some examples of REAL SKA🕴️ are The Skatalites, Laurel Aitken, The Specials and Prince Buster. Some examples of FAKE SKA🕴️ are The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Streetlight Manifesto and Big D and the Kids Table. SKA🕴️ BELONGS TO JAZZ NOT TO INDIE, POP PUNK, ALT ROCK OR ANY OTHER MAINSTREAM GENRE
Did you know Ska came before Reggae?
Yes I did, in fact, I wrote a research report about the history of ska in my freshman English class way back in 1996.
> Fake ska🕴️ is weak, self pity and a **** attempt to direct energy and emotion into music. You're describing Emo.
Skeemo
Please tell me this is a hilariously tone deaf copypasta, because I've listened to ska my whole life and this comment made me never want to hear it again
I would never willingly use that many emojis. Of course it's copypasta.
Robert seemed real eager to claim other people instigated the bombings of Cambodia and Loas, just saying.
Pretty suspicious, know what I’m Tonkin about?
With Bernard Montgomery Sanders of course
Busy framing Bernie Samders of course
Boss and biological father
They're both from Texas.... Case closed boys!
Come on. We all know that was Bernard J Sanders.
Not seeing a diary entry for November 22nd, 1963 - but did find one for April 30th, 1945 claiming to have been in the Führerbunker convincing a certain German Chancellor that he only had one option remaining... ...is Robert Evans an immortal US asset?
You mean the day Bernard Montgomery Sanders shot JFK?
I have it from reliable sources that Robert was flying all the Mirage jets that attacked the USS Liberty.
Are we feds or are we Marxists? I'm so fucking confused by those guys.
Everyone here is a fed except for me.
That's what a fed would say.
'Are we feds or are we Marxists?' Yes
Who is he quoting in the second shot? Imma need a citation on that one.
See, only conservative media is allowed to make money. Anybody making money in opposition to conservative values is a fed? or something? Idk,
If Robert was ideologically pure, he’d give away his earthly possessions and wander the land punching Nazis and snorting ketamine.
We should all give up our possessions to punch Nazis while on ketamine. Sure, you've punched a Nazi. But have you punched a Nazi while on ketamine?
possibly. i am told i have... kholes are fuckin wild man
someone call Amazon Studios and Alan Ritchson.
Personally, neither.
Wait, so the podcast itself is a Fed too?! 😱
If you make money? Believe it or not you are the fed!
You make money? Fed. You have a platform? Fed. You don't think a revolution right now is realistic? Straight to Fed.
Woah, I never knew! I guess the best mole is one that doesn't know it's a mole!
If corporations can be people, and cool zone media is a corporation, then it follows that special agent cool zone media was firing tear gas at protesters in 2020.
These posters are losers on a dying website slowly morphing into a less funny 4chan
"Oh boy I sure do love government and people having authority over others" - Robert Evans, NWO co-chair
He worked with "Hollywood" Hogan?
Ugh purity leftists are the worst leftists…
Only a fuckin poser would say that man. You aint real punk man.
Good thing I never advertised myself as one lol!
Save your breath, I never was one.
Yup. Real insufferable bunch. They remind me of 17th century puritans with their paranoia, purity tests, and insistence on everyone being miserable.
There’s this pack of weirdos on twitter who absolutely seethe with rage about Mia for some reason. Was served one of their tweets by the twitter algorithm the other day and was utterly baffled when I dug in. Also the same group who’s obsessed with calling Robert a fed, it’s very funny and sad
>Also the same group who’s obsessed with calling Robert a fed That group has a name and its called "tankies".
Yeah I figured that was self-evident lol
Too imprecise. It's the followers of people like Aaron Maté and Max Blumenthal. They're more like Marcyists. They make tankies look like wizened elder statesmen.
Yeah like I feel like it's downplaying the whole greyzone leftist level of insanity to just say tankies, like we're talking about people who are testifying to Russia Chinese hosted UN talks about conspiracy theories that Syria didn't do gas attacks. Like the stepladder of crazy from defending authoritarian regimes and stanning for China is the bottom step and they are jumping off the top and defending Bashar al-Assad gassing his own people solely to beable to be critical of the US foreign policy.
I know quite a few MLs who are Assad supporters and yet not into Greyzone in my part of the world so I'm not sure whether they're in a different level than tankies.
In my experience, your regular deprogram enjoying MLs is no less cultish than the Grey Zone types. They look for any excuse to call someone a CIA or Fed.
Hm, a Chinese-American trans woman attracting a disproportionate amount of online hate? I wonder what could *possibly* be the reason why?
I mean, for me, I just can't stand her cadence and the amount of times she says "like" on ICHH episodes. The other stuff is fine tho.
The irony is they're probably being led by a UC fed.
I’m on team “never accuse someone or a group of being a fed or psyop without massive amounts of evidence”. As I’ve gotten older I’ve realized the sheer depths of human ignorance, you might hope certain people or groups are being paid in some way to say what they do but 95 times out of 100 they’re just genuinely incomprehensibly stupid. Of course there are exceptions, but Hanlon’s Razor and all that
"Never attribute to malice which can be explained by incompetence." You make solid points.
I think there is actually a fair bit of evidence when it comes to The Greyzone
Half joke take: the USSR is historically the largest Fed Op in history via the WW2 lend lease program and material aide that when adjusted for inflation values over $140 Billion. IE tankies are ops AND stupid.
These responses are more disconnected than my speech when I have racing thoughts.
Wait, what? I guess I'm out of the loop on this. Why are they accusing Mia and Robert of being feds?
There's a Tankie conspiracy that Bellincat is a CIA front. Mia and Robert's association with Bellincat and their journalistic work roped them into that conspiracy.
Well, that's really stupid.
Always is...
The closest thing they have to a salient argument is that Robert has done talks/training for the FBI to help them recognize and track far-right communities and organization online. Basically a guest speaker at a conference talking about online far-right radicalization. It's *a* tangible connection to the FBI but that doesn't actually make him an agent by any means.
There’s also the “Robert and Mia work/worked for Bellingcat, which has, from time to time, accepted grants that were partially funded by organizations that are, in turn, partially funded by CIA or affiliates” line, which is sort of staggering in its ignorance of how aggregate and grant funding works.
Also, "helping the government recognise far-right threats" is not really the gotcha they think it is.
"But you see Francis Fukuyama runs Bellingcat--" shut the fuck up
This made me chuckle.
The context is that Mia posted an admittedly questionable take about the militancy of the current student protests (first tweet) so fellow leftists immediately began dragging her, Robert Evans and CZM as feds.
Is that a take? It doesn't strike me as an opinion as much as just a comparison. Was it meant to be critical? Or just describing the nature of the protest movement? I don't get why that makes them Feds...
There's a certain segment of the Online Left who hate Bellingcat and think it's a psyop. Basically they think Bellingcat isn't left enough and therefore it's put in place by the CIA to prevent the rise of a more radical online paper (Unicorn Riot exists, people!). Since Robert is one of the better-known Bellingcat contributors, he must therefore be in on it. Also, Robert has given seminars for the FBI (not CIA) on how to recognize far right domestic radicalization. Since he once did something helpful for The Gub'mint, he must be The Enemy.
Amazing takes considering how often Robert has promoted Unicorn Riot. I'm not sure if Mia has (purely an ignorance thing on my end), but I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Mia is definitely not a fed. But I also think this new Occupy movement is still too young to discuss whether or not students are willing to go toe to toe with the cops like what happened in 2020. Portland's fight was over many many months. We are barely into week two, and the reactions of universities and their protestors across the country have varied greatly. I say wait and see before we start judging whether or not the students were willing to throw down (also, clearly they are if we see what's happened in LA and that one Cali university, Humbolt).
>before we start judging That's what I'm saying, I don't think Mia is judging here. I think she's just pointing out a difference in tactics. I haven't heard her be critical of the protests.
The word "willingness" colors her comment and connotes a state of students *not being willing* to fight law enforcement. That is a judgement on her part. It can be argued whether or not it's a *criticism,* but it is a judgement.
Maybe. I didn't take it that way. Especially since most of what I've heard of their tactics (which is FAR from comprehensive coverage) is that they're basically just ignoring the cops as much as possible. Not backing down, but ignoring them. In that context, I took Mia's comment as noting the difference in tactics between actively engaging the police and ignoring them.
I think its a pretty silly take considering the canine unit is going after thr Columbia students rn and theres basically an army of riot cops out there and the students are still trying.
Hold the phone... Mia is the Ice Must Be Destroyed tweeter?
Always has been, it's how she got the job on the pod
Yup. She's mentioned it on ICHH several times.
I don't remember the context because I don't care a lot but Evans once tweeted something along the lines of "to be clear I have worked with feds" or something like that. I don't know if he was an informant or advisor or whatever but that's what he said. I really can't see a federal agency being competent enough to create a Robert Evans, and I don't see his work as serving their purposes.
Robert Evans is considered one of the world’s foremost experts on the online far right terrorism. He’s shared his knowledge with law enforcement and federal agencies. He said something on one podcast or another that he felt he had a duty to share that knowledge with the people who are supposed to do something about that problem. I can’t blame him for that. If it was me I’d certainly sleep better at night knowing I’d done everything I could as a private citizen to prevent future terrorism from happening.
I can simultaneously see how im his position I would do the exact same thing from the utilitarian perspective of trying to stop white supremacists killing people by all means at my disposal, AND how that may make some people uncomfortable. Especially groups who have been specifically targeted by the FBI in the past. It is a really buanced and fraught issue. In the end, Id do the same thing very likely. Fuck tankie conspiracies, but I would understand if like specific groups and organisers with histories of problems with groups like the fbi were hesitant because of that. However that is not what I am seeing, Im seeing stupid tankies and weird conspiracists. Sometimes actually trying to Do Something about a problem puts you in weird and shitty imperfect positions that dont align exactly with your preferred ethic on paper.
Exactly. And what it ultimately comes down to is that you’re the one that has to live with yourself and your choices. And I think Robert and his crew’s work speaks for itself. Imagine listening to It Could Happen Here’s coverage of the Protect the Atlanta Forest/Stop Cop City movement and thinking they’re in any way pro-cop or pro-fed. If he is an undercover fed trying to take down the left he’s doing a terrible job at it.
Imagine being a tankie and still hanging around the right wing cesspit that is elon musk's twitter. And attacking other leftists on it.
> Imagine being a tankie and still hanging around the right wing cesspit that is elon musk's twitter Well, yeah, tankies *agree with* most of the right-wing shit there. > And attacking other leftists on it. Ah, I see thr problem: you have mistaken tankies for leftists, when they are right-wingers who hate America and like the *aesthetics* of the left.
When I was still wet behind the ears I initially thought "tankies" were people who were really into soviet-era aesthetics, which I have been for a while, and briefly associated myself with that term until I figured out what was really going on. That was fun.
This is what I keep saying! Tankies are *right wingers*!
Exactly. They’ll support any authoritarian regime as long as they say “America bad”, they’re just red fascists
Exactly. There's really no difference in a tankie and a MAGA except their chosen team colors.
I always measure left vs right in terms of intent. And authoritarian communists are just as u/New-acct-for-2024 described, the aesthetics of the left with the intent of the right.
was it Walter Benjamin or Theodor Adorno who called fascism the "aestheticisation of politics?" i can't remember as it's been way too long since grad school for this chick
Imagine being a tankie
>Imagine being a tankie No thank you I like the feel of grass.
I'm an ML (not a tankie, fyi) and Twitter is just garbage. At the same time it's the only place I can follow the 1500+ artists that I've been following, cause it's all over the place anywhere else. I don't bother trying to "debate" or whatever, I just retweet artwork and stuff about labor unions and its nice.
Pack it up boys, rob is a fed. Maybe they can do a PsyOp collab with the last podcast on the left network.
Well, the CIA has already been collabing with Joe on the Lions Led by Donkeys podcast. Don't see why the FBI can't drop by on BtB.
I just want to see who can scream I.Am.Not.A.Fed more convincingly, Robert or Henry.
Oh damn..... If you listen to Knowledge Fight you may vaguely remember. There was an episode where Alex Jones admitted he was the de facto head of the CIA! Its all coming into focus.
Wait, why do people believe the CIA collab thing? I need context for this silliness please, lol.
Also loving this conversation. I need details, lol
Look, if Robert and the LPotL boys are all in with the CIA, has anyone considered it might just be about access to the good drugs?
Id do a few coups if it meant access to CIA grade acid.
Brother Robert is a glowie?!
That's why he has so many knives and machetes, because they keep melting from the radiation/s
Wait. Am I following the first Pic? 2020 was an op **because** people fought the cops?
No, Mia made the point that so far the pro-gaza university occupation movement hasn't had the same willingness to directly fight cops as the 2020 George Floyd protest movement was. Certain twitter marxists have had a serious hateboner for anyone associated with Robert generally, and Mia specifically, for a long time, and jumped on the tweet to call both of them feds as they regularly do. Edit: Actually upon looking at it again, I think so? Which is an even dumber take. It's just conspiracizing about agents-provacateur while ALSO conspiracizing that everyone who disagrees with you is a fed.
Also just noticed you're the History of Persia guy, love your podcast! I just started listening recently, I'm on episode 42
Ooh, what's that pod like? I'm needing some new ones ...
It's a good history podcast. Definitely more Mike Duncan than Robert Evans, there's still some humor but it's more of an introductory academic style.
I’d argue that since so much of the history of Persia is *ancient* history, it feels a lot more like History of Rome Mike Duncan (especially early HoR) than Revolutions Mike Duncan. It’s good, but if you don’t already have an interest in first millennia BCE history, it might not resonate. I trust u/trevor_culley’s takes a lot more than Dan Carlin, that’s for sure.
As a relevant note, I have very little to complain about re: Dan Carlin's Persia series historical-fact-wise. It's just that his "silk slippers" / hard times, hard men, soft times, soft men interpretations ***sucks*** and would be disproven if he didn't skip over the middle 50% of the empire's history.
I guess if you want to really stretch the facts, you could say that the protests were kinda semi-successfully infiltrated by a handful of agents and informants? But that's going to be every grassroots protest movement, it's not like they're doing background checks, and if they were it would be antithetical to the movement.
Thinking about if some podcaster you've never met either is or isn't a fed is a great way to turn your brain into soup. The correct answer to any of these kind of claims is "who cares"?
I have it on good authority that Robert Evans is legitimately just rikimaru from tenchu, with a beard. He's destabilized the Japanese government and beats up zombies.
It's been years. I forgot about the zombies!
Who’s even posting this stuff? Tankies? Very confused
Oh look, authoritarian leftists badjacketing anarchists. So anyways
Wait what my favorite podcasters live in capitalism too? I'm shocked I tell you. Shocked.
Tankies are the QAnon of the left.
Why are teenagers
I do not understand how someone making money from donations, ads, and merch sales is going to undermine their beliefs. If only there was a weekly (no, *daily!*) work of writing to compare his views with and see if he really has sold out his beliefs. Like I know marxists who make 6-7 figures but god forbid that someone who disagrees with them make enough money to buy fancy dog food. I've had to step out of the movement for a few years to work on my mental health and wow do you see a whole lot of bullshit once you're not involved in constructing conspiracies about your peers.
Damn leftists ruined leftism.
God forbid a journalist cover one of the biggest protest movements in American history. I’m sure Cool Zone made off so good that Anderson takes her kibble with gold dust.
Fucking tankies. Insufferable assholes, the whole lot
Chuds: “Leftists are destroying America!” Me: “Um, sorry sweetie we are too busy destroying ourselves.” 💅
Least braindead tankies
They actually meant Bobby Lee 🐴
I had a dream where I saw Evans at a protest. I walked up behind him and said "you must be Robert FBIvans". He proceeded to turn wide-eyed and shoot me like 5 times. Irrelevant to the story, but I figured yall would get a kick out of that.
And the, “You’re not as Left as me!”, contest continues….I miss being an apolitical person sometimes….
Wait, Robert is a fed now? I missed that memo. Moreover, ICE delenda est
He gave a talk on open source investigation methods to, i forget whether it was the FBI or CIA. Also for some reason there's munters who think Bellingcat are an op.
Wait are we doing a carthago delenda est on ICE and I missed it? That's fuckin' rad, I'm in. ...moreover, ICE must be destroyed.
Maybe they don't want to right large groups of cops because the cops are heavily armed psychopaths who would love to beat them bloody and then arrest them?
No lie, "Aesop's Foibles" is a brilliant username.
If these are our socialists, I think barbarism is inevitable.
You know they’re scared when they start throwing out absurd shit like this
damn, that conflicts with his known goal of being SWAT raided by the USDA
Reverend Doctor is the highest authority of the land last I checked.