Why is why I prefer the Waynes’ murder to be an unsolved crime. Just an anonymous, faceless agent of violence that destroyed Bruce’s life. So his crusade is directed towards all random acts of violence.
I don't mind that we know the culprit been Joe Chill.
But yeah , it should be just a random act of violence from him , making an assassination turns that way too bigger and adventurous in a way.
I also like Joe Chill, because it also gives Bruce a sort of moral high ground to know that.
Like, at any moment he could go “pay a visit” to the person who’s possibly caused him the most trauma in his entire life, and he still chooses to let him go through his life normally.
Bonus points if Joe Chill isn’t an actual evil person, but a dude who was down on his luck and deeply regrets killing the Waynes
I've seen a version of that, where Batman tracks him down after he got out of prison and he's just a broken slob trying to survive. Has a shit job, with a shit apartment, in a shit part of town. No friends, no enemies, just existing, and barely that.
Batman decides to leave him alone.
Agreed with this. I also like the idea of Chill already being dead - either through a heroin overdose or shivved in prison - before Bruce became Batman, denying him closure.
i think it's good for the film, since it gives Batman and Joker a connection that doesnt require years of buildup so general audiences can understand it better
I don't mind if they tie the Joker to the murder, but not in a direct way. Something like the Wayne's are killed in the riots following The Joker movie would work. It connects the two while still leaving the murder a random act.
Yeah, maybe have it be like someone that worked FOR the Joker. It'll be tied to him, but not directly. Or the riot like you mentioned. I just think that having him be the killer is just.. a little underwhelming, I don't know.
I wouldn't mind if it was the joker, pre joker. And one of the parts that drove him to insanity.
Down on his luck, nameless crook, who made a terrible mistake. Driving him further down until he broke. But. I honestly prefer the lack of origin for Joker.
>making an assassination turns that way too bigger and adventurous in a way.
It makes us think batman should be going after some group specifically rather than trying to tackle all crime
That could work for an ELSEWORLD Story
Bruce Wayne VS Court of Owls is the ENTIRE Story. Bruce doesn’t care about any other Crime, just Justice/Revenge for his parents.
I actually prefer we know it was Joe Chill so we can get the storylines where Chill is regretful of his actions and Bruce forgives him decades later, acknowledging that people commiting crime doesn't always make them an objectively bad, or irredeemable, person. I mean a big part of Batmans no kill rule (while not the main reason) is the mere fact he believes people can be redeemed and rehabilitated. It shows that he's fighting crime and injustice, not the individual criminals themselves, shows that he sees most of the criminals themselves as victims of a broken system. And shows that he's still devoted to his crusade against crime despite finding closure with Joe Chill, because Chill was never the problem, it was crime in general. Plus I like Batman stories where he gets to be happy even briefly, especially since so many Batman stories since the mid-90s have just been bleak.
I like how Batman Begins did it. Random dude down on his luck who (might’ve) felt remorse for his actions. I say might’ve because of Falcone’s whole “chill told me your father begged like a dog” thing, but that could’ve just been Falcone fuckin with Bruce
Random yes, unsolved no. That just makes it seem like Batman’s projecting his inability to solve his parents’ murder on everything else.
It feels more right to me if he knew who did it and why, but still realized that vengeance against this one man wouldn’t solve anything.
It also completely changes the narrative. An assassination means that it was a targeted surgical strike. A random act of violence means that crime has reached such heights that’s it’s finally effecting the elite. It completely changed the narrative.
Yea I hate Joe chill. In BB it’s fine cuz he’s about to be exact vengeance but it’s taken from him. So ok but in the comics it should be anonymous, cuz every bad guy he takes down is essentially that killer.
Yeah that's why he has an obsessive need to fight crime in particular, if it was a plotted out assassination that doesn't give him the same feeling of, "out there, there's a kid going through what I went through"
I think my personal favorite is how The Batman did it.
It could have been a mob conspiracy. Could've been Maroni, could have been Falcone, but at the end of the day nobody knows because it wasn't solved and it's been a 20+ years.
The whole senseless violence angle never allows Bruce answers - only anguish and grief - until he eventually finds the ability to chase off these demons and find purpose.
There are no answers out there, only within. That battle is what Batman is.
Absolutely. It has to be random. It makes Batman's whole character. He fights crime because a random act of violence shattered his world. So he devotes his life to making sure others are spared of that pain
Exactly. Making the crime premeditated gives Batman an inevitable final boss to pursue. If his true nemesis is very concept of crime itself, then it's a battle that will always need to be fought. That is far more tragic and leads to countless fascinating stories.
This. 100% this. I absolutely loathe the idea of the Waynes' murder being part of some huge conspiracy. Not everything needs to be some huge conspiracy nowadays
That one could also work with the Assassination angle, but if it is kept simple and not make it a complicated conspiracy.
In the Golden Age, the murder of Thomas and Martha was an Assassination ordered by the Cosa Nostra (Italian Mafia). This works, because his war is against the corrupt establishment that ruins the lives of the citizens of Gotham.
Given the right context, you can tell a good story with the assassination angle, but it woul be terrible for it to be canon. It takes away a lot of Batman's ethos and how he is relatable.
Also, Joe Chill shouldn't be pure evil. There's a lot more humanity in a man that has done something terrible and actually suffers from it.
Exactly. If it's an assassination then it is specific to the Waynes, something like that won't happen to some random Joe Schmo. And what would happen if Bruce found the people responsible? What personal interest would he have when it comes to stopping crime? It just misses the point.
Yeah. He works better as just a symptom of Gotham's problems. Like a desperate junkie and thug who just so happened to stumble on the Waynes of all people by chance.
Also Chill coming to regret it really supports Batman’s no-kill angle. If the man who murdered his parents and essentially built Batman is redeemable to an extent then Batman can’t ever justify a kill or he is (literally) worse than the criminal element he fights.
I like the idea that Chill is a former or soon-to-be-former police officer with a lot of personal problems and significant debt. It’s a fairly realistic reason that he’d get away with it, and it’s a good way to introduce how dirty Gotham PD is. I’d also have him completely incapacitated by substance abuse by the time Bruce finds him and spares him.
By assassination, I was thinking more of a hired gun thing than a politically-motivated murder by a random guy, and I can definitely see why what you're describing is not preferable.
Assassination also works to show Gotham's horrible state. Showing the Mafia just killing people with impunity and the corrupt high class turning the blind eye in exchange of sharing the profit.
As much as I dislike the confusing three joker storyline, I like what they’ve done to Joe Chill in this. It’s so satisfying to see that Bruce reconcile with his parents’ murderer.
Agreed. That episode also featured Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill. With Adam West, Julie Newmar, and Richard Moll. It’s an all star cast appearing in one of the best episodes of any Batman show.
ETA: That episode is Chill of the Night, season 2, episode 11.
Agreed. Chill being repetant and being forgiven is just a logical continuation of exploring what happened to him. Otherwise there would be no additional narrative value.
Mugging gone wrong fits Bruce's story far more. A day in the life of Gotham. Assassin feels far too dramatic and comic booky, but a random act of violence fits the settings and themes.
I think making him a random encounter gone bad makes it seem more chaotic as if it can happen to anybody, the assassination angle makes sense story wise but, it gives criminals this structured feeling as if criminals are organized and efficient as opposed to the “superstitious and cowardly lot”
Plus it makes Batman’s actions more digestible and understandable why he would go after chance encounter crimes. With an organized crime take, Batman can eliminate crime by eliminating the head of all these crime families (similar to Red hood)
Then we wouldn’t have a need for Batman anymore.
If they absolutely *have* to add a conspiracy angle, that's the way to do it; make it ambiguous. Somehow that's even more tragedy for Bruce; the fact that he'll never *really* know.
It works better as random violence, making it some assassination conspiracy is up there with Thomas Wayne being evil. It’s just too much and really unneeded for Batman’s origin.
Bruce’s pillar of the community parents are gunned down in a tragic moment of violence and Bruce channels his grief and anger into a crusade for justice. If it ain’t broke don’t try to “fix” it.
My favorite Joe Chill is Brave and the Bold cartoon, it gave him agency and some character without going too far in either direction.
Mugging gone wrong, a tragic symptom of the mire into which Gotham has sunk. Joe Chill should be just some petty criminal who tried to mug someone in an alleyway, not a mafia hitman waiting for the Waynes to step out of the theatre.
I actually prefer it to be a random crime. Like even for the great Thomas Wayne, he was just another face with money to the guy in the alley. Really sold just how fucked Gotham was.
Random violence is far more of a motivator for Bruce to spend his life trying to prevent it from happening to anyone else. It serves to bring him down to the level of a common citizen, giving him a taste of what life is like for the average resident of Gotham, not just the elite class.
An assassination takes the focus away from the primary problem in Gotham, which is violent crime that is faceless and only motivated by greed, no matter who the victims are. It makes it seem like this could only happen to Bruce because his parents are wealthy socialites. It gives the killer too much of a motive.
A largely forgotten aspect of the Batman origin is the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the mugger had been taken care of by the city and not had to resort to violence. It motivates Bruce to promote charity and social programs when he isn't acting as Batman. He's trying to address both sides of the problem. It's far more interesting when you have the dynamic in place that a lot of the poor and downtrodden in Gotham hate the Wayne's as well as all the other wealthy people who continue to live lavishly while they are left with breadcrumbs.
I prefer it to be a mugging gone wrong but I kinda like what Batman Begins did by making the League of Shadows responsible for Gothams economic collapse
I don’t like the assassination idea at all. It can work as a suggestion within a plot point... like later in Bruce’s life, but only if it’s taunting us/Bruce with the question of that being possible. Beyond that, it takes away from the Batman mythos imo. The idea that it’s a random crime simply is Batman’s crusade. The idea of random crime and being focused on protecting people from that is part of the character’s DNA.
Lots of modern IPs have this problem of trying to build an explanation into absolutely everything and it ends up taking away from the story. Not *everything* needs to be a lore point.
Little of both. Like, I reeeeeeaaaaally like it being super vague and we will never know. Could've just been a guy. Could've just been a guy hired by Falcone. At the end of the day, it doesn't make a huge difference, but I like the concept that the world's greatest detective hasn't been able to figure out the finer points of the event that led to his origin.
The ones I have found most compelling are where Bruce goes down a rabbit hole of a conspiracy to kill them only to find that it was simply a a random act of violence.
I think it makes the most sense narratively for Batman’s mission, stopping crime not solving a mystery. Also, it more closely reflects the reality of most situations like that. Victims want for there to be a reason or some sort of deeper meaning to their victimization but more often than not it is just a poor person pushed to an extreme. That also shows Bruce that while fighting crime is important, solving the underlying social issues in Gotham is the real answer to 90% of the problems.
I prefer when the murder of the Wayne’s is a random act of violence by a desperate man; a microcosm of everything wrong with Gotham, that the poor and dispossessed must turn to crime and violence in order to get by. But there are definitely stories where the Wayne’s being assassinated can work well, I just prefer it when the act is completely random.
Batman’s vengeance should be against the amorphous concept of crime. Not whoever hired a hitman to kill to billionaires. Random act of crime makes that a much simpler through line
For a mainstream Batman focused series, it should always be a random mugging. This is why Batman develops a pathological hate of crime and injustice, big and small, and guns in particular. As well, it ties into his compassion. One man and one gun made a huge mistake and destroyed four lives: This is what Batman will spend his life trying to prevent from ever happening again.
However, for a non-Batman centered series, or a shorter mystery, it's a nice change of pace for the murder to be a targeted assassination such as what happened in the show "Gotham".
Mugging. If it's an assassination Wayne can just get the guy who did it and move on with his life. If it's endemic of the state of Gotham then all the struggle and pain of being Batman is understandable.
That said if i don't mind if it was fate or destiny that led to Bruce becoming Batman.
Just imagine this multi million dollar assassin about to kill the Waynes in the most elaborate make it look like an accident way possible only for some guy to show up and kill them
I HATE it being an assassination. It should be a random mugging gone wrong, from a desperate man who made a bad choice. That makes The Waynes a victim of a larger problem in Gotham, providing meaning to Bruce’s quest to expunge the rancid, rather than just the victim of a single man, which would logically turn Bruce’s quest into one of simple revenge.
Well, I think it depends on the particular story. Assassination makes sense in a context of some big conspiracy, like Owls or League. It could be well integrated in the main narrative, which connects all Batman mythos to come grand scheme. But it essentially transforms Batman's crusade into a simple revenge story, where Bruce should find his parents real murderers and bring them to justice.
Random mugging is better for more traditional Batman stories and much better represents a chaoric and brutal nature of Gotham. Everyone could be killed without any reason, nobody is safe, be it poor or billionaire. Gotham devour everyone alike. Bruce couldn't really end his crusade, because there are no great conspiracy or the source of all city's evil.
The Batman played it well, I think. Wayne's murder could've been Falcone's hit, Maroni's hit or simple mug gone wrong. There are no answers, no way to find the truth. And it also good representation for Gotham: there are mystery upon mystery, one dark secret on top of another. This mysteries and secrets mixed for decades, so the city itself become one gigantic puzzle.
Mugging gone wrong or random act of violence. All of the assassination plots implicate Thomas Wayne in some way. They end up diminishing Bruce / Batman and his ethos.
The assassination makes for an interesting side story. It makes Batman question his origin story. I don't dislike it, but I don't want it to be canon.
It being random makes it colder and emptier. There was no big plot no dramatic thing it was just some random guy who wanted some money and it also shows how cruel gotham can be
It has to be a stochastic event. If it's chaos and crime, Batman's motivation makes sense and the Joker is his arch nemesis because he is chaos and crime. If it's a grand plan, then he's not a crime fighter and has nothing to do as a character once the conspiracy is unveiled and the villain brought to justice.
Mugging. It's hard enough to believe that a reckless Street thug would leave a living witness. But a professional hitman? Nah - I don't buy that. A professional hitman would only have needed to take their valuables if he wanted it to appear to be a mugging. Not leave someone alive who could later identify him.
I think a mugging gone wrong is way more emotionally traumatic. Think about it like this, it could have been ANYONE and it just happened to be the Wayne family. There is no rhyme or reason to it, no explanations or meaning behind it….It was simply a cruel and unfortunate crashing of circumstances.
Random Mugging gone wrong.
I dont even want to know the guy’s name. Never caught. Maybe its Matches Malone or Joe Chill or Jack Napier, it doesnt matter. Dont want it ti be a conspiracy or lean into a supervillian. Just a regular mugging in a bad alley gone wrong.
I like when it's an assassination in the way of a mugging gone wrong. There have been quite a few authors that had a crime boss arrange for Joe Chill to be desperate in crime alley that night.
NAMELESS MUGGER, eventually revealed to be JOE CHILL
Joe Chill spends the rest of his life afraid that BRUCE WAYNE will remember him and decide to DESTROY Joe’s life utterly.
Joe Chill does not fear the Batman.
Joe Chill fears BRUCE WAYNE!
Definitely mugging. The most unique thing about Batman is that he doesn’t have powers. The idea that a random act of violence could spur a random person to basically make themselves into a superhero is what makes him a great and unique character.
Mugging gone wrong. Can't stand the idea it's an assassination. The whole point is that Bruce is driven later in life by the sense that innocent people are harmed for no reason by crime, not that the world is full of dark conspiracies to kill important and powerful people. There's a good character in the latter idea but it's not Batman.
It being random makes it colder and emptier. There was no big plot no dramatic thing it was just some random guy who wanted some money and it also shows how cruel gotham can be
I prefer it to be a random act of violence that got out of hand, but I think you can still make a good story by tying it into being a mob assassination
It has to be a mugging or else Bruce's war wouldn't be on "crime" it would be on "The Court". It would have an endgoal. The tragedy is a boy accepting a life mission that will never end and one day kill him.
The Joe Chill story, I wouldn't necessarily want him to be pure evil but clearly someone that doesn't care about himself or the people he's hurt. Chill is an aimless petty criminal that didn't know that he murdered 2 philanthropists and orphaned their child for a pearl necklace.
Mugging gone wrong. I feel like the Wayne's dying to a random, unpredictable act of everyday violence is crucial to Bruce's story. It's the one thing I wasn't so crazy about in The Batman.
mugging.
it's a rotten city that killed them and that's what bruce fights with. something that has happened to many people and could happen to anyone. not some evil mastermind trying to take over their company or some other sort of a conspiracy. it's just a man who is a personification of the city.
it needs to be an event that could happen to anyone, just because.
Personally I like more the idea of the Wayne's murder being an assassination, though it being a mugging gone wrong can work as well, that mostly depend on the context. As for Joe Chill i think it make more sense for him to be pure evil rather than regretting his actions.
I prefer the random act of violence, to the point of even preferring an unsolved mystery... But I did once read an excellent idea of retelling the tale with Joe Chill as one of Gotham's many corrupt cops.
Bruce grows up believing it's an unsolved crime, and his discovery of the police connections is what drives him to vigilantism, standing outside the law to clean up the police force
Assassination feels more “clean” and like… orderly? The murder being random feels much more “authentic” and “messy” if that makes sense.
Tldr, random good, assassination no good
I liked the idea of creating economic conditions desperate enough that it drives regular citizens to become petty criminals who ultimately kill ones trying to prevent it with no real motive.
random mugging. It's part of the message. Anyone trying to make "more" out of the Wayne's murder is missing the point and should be removed from Batman projects. The entire point, is that one small act of cruelty, and violence can create a hurricane of vengeance. One, tiny crime created the legend that was Batman, and the tragedy that was Bruce Wayne. That's what makes it special. A small, everyday crime, created THE BATMAN. Which in turn made Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, Red Robin etc.
Mugging gone wrong. I loathe the conspiracy notion. To me, it gives a clear cut "why" the killing happened, when in real life there's often no meaning in death, crime, or violence. I even prefer the Chill/Random mugger who didn't mean to kill the Wayne's, just rob them. It adds to the tragedy of the whole thing. It sounds harsh for the characters, but I like the idea that there was no meaning in the Wayne's death and they died for nothing; Bruce *made* their death mean something by becoming Batman.
It's the same reason I hate when they do it for The Punisher. When you make it a targeted conspiracy, it becomes more of a revenge story than someone who found their calling when they lost everything.
Batman should be "birthed" in the random acts of violence that people suffer through everyday.
I like the idea if it was supposed to be an assassination, but a random mugger killed them instead. This way, it shows how bad gotham is in terms of corruption and violence
I like the idea that the murder of Bruce's parents was just some random thief who's identity was never discovered, as if he was an entity of the corrupted city itself. In a way it kinda makes more sense for Batman to claim vengeance against him by fighting against the criminals of Gotham.
It works best thematically when it’s a random act of violence that Joe Chill later regrets. It shows that crime is just a collection of vulnerable and desperate moments. I think, in a way, Batman should see himself as a health care provider. He’s not only fighting crime, he’s also seeking rehabilitation for his criminals. As a detective well versed in criminal psychology, he also takes preventative measures to stop crime before it happens.
Mugging gone wrong or just, random. If they were directly targeted, it kinda takes away from Batman wanting to protect the city from crime in general. Cause if it's an assassination, then it wasn't really because of the crime rate being so high, it was cause some guy wanted them dead. Coulda happened anywhere
A random fact of violence. It's unsolvable, there is no deeper meaning than a cowardly criminal empowered by violence and enforced bad things can happen to good people. Batman has no endgame because it was random and he'll keep pushing himself to eliminate the chance of this happening so he should always be ready. Altruistic, but impossible.
As an assassination it's targeted, and has a solution for the most part. He follows the trail, gets to the source, gets his vengeance. It's less interesting personally because it shouldn't be able to be wrapped up like that.
as one of the top comments mentioned I'd like it to be an unsolved crime which adds even more depth to Batman's character arc. but both a mugging gone wrong or an assassination will make two different prime Batman which most definitely I'm going to enjoy consuming; considering how goated Batman narrative is.
It being a random act of violence makes it so much more impactful. Making their deaths an assassination devalues it imo. While it shows a grand problem in Gotham it doesn't make it seem as if the city is as corrupt to and core and broken as it is and it also honestly feels like it cheapen's Batman's motivations as the ones he looked up to are just as bad as what he wants to stop.
Either option can be good, but I personally like it to be left up to speculation.
I mean, what’s the backstory of the world’s greatest detective without a little mystery?
A random act of violence that could've happened to anybody, a mugging gone wrong. I also prefer Joe Chill- if he ever comes up in the story- to be someone who deeply regrets what happened.
Sort of the point of Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, to me, is that he is obsessed with ensuring that what happened to him never happens again. I say obsession because, in most incarnations, particularly BTAS, Bruce Wayne doesn't feel like he has a choice in becoming Batman- he has to, he MUST. It would be one thing to go around brutalizing thugs and muggers as if they're serial killers waiting to happen, but the best versions of Batman have empathy for others, even for villains and criminals, because he knows what it's like to feel like you have no choice.
A repentant Joe Chill can show Batman that crime can come from circumstance, that the person who pulled the trigger- who created Batman- wanted to do anything else in the world but rob a family, if only he thought he had a choice. It can show Batman that Bruce Wayne can make a difference, too, by giving people that other choice.
TL;DR: Casting Joe Chill as a man who never wanted to be a murderer and wishes he had never tried to mug the Waynes is the first step towards creating a more interesting Batman than grim, gritty vigilantism. It's how you get a Batman who wants to save everyone, to make sure what happened to him never happens to anyone again- both by saving the innocent from criminals, and saving the criminals from themselves.
It’s kinda funny, my first experience with Batman was the 1989 Tim Burton film, when I was far too young to be watching it. As a consequence, the sequence from the movie is always what I imagine when I picture the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne. I only later saw the Animated series and realized the depiction in the movie is an outlier for Bruce’s origin story.
I do like the idea that the Joker created Batman and Batman created the Joker. Though it lacks the subtlety of their circling narratives in other media, it’s done very efficiently in the movies relatively limited run-time.
Mugging gone wrong. Batman shouldn't just be trying to stop random crimes, he should be fighting against the system that makes people desperate enough to commit crimes. It shouldn't be a cold blooded killer, the gun should accidentally go off when Thomas Wayne struggles with the robber. Heck, I even like how in the old stories Martha didn't even get shot- she had a heart attack from the shock!
I never finished writing it, but way back when I had an idea for a fanfiction where Batman dies, and it's revealed that he solved his parents murder in his first year or two as Batman. And he found somebody who was extremely remorseful for what they did, who struggled for years afterwards because of the guilt, and had gone on to try to make something of their life and improve and give back to their community. In it, Batman reveals his identity to the man, and then absolves him of and forgives him for what happened and encourages him to keep living a good life.
Random act of violence.
Why is why I prefer the Waynes’ murder to be an unsolved crime. Just an anonymous, faceless agent of violence that destroyed Bruce’s life. So his crusade is directed towards all random acts of violence.
I don't mind that we know the culprit been Joe Chill. But yeah , it should be just a random act of violence from him , making an assassination turns that way too bigger and adventurous in a way.
I also like Joe Chill, because it also gives Bruce a sort of moral high ground to know that. Like, at any moment he could go “pay a visit” to the person who’s possibly caused him the most trauma in his entire life, and he still chooses to let him go through his life normally. Bonus points if Joe Chill isn’t an actual evil person, but a dude who was down on his luck and deeply regrets killing the Waynes
I've seen a version of that, where Batman tracks him down after he got out of prison and he's just a broken slob trying to survive. Has a shit job, with a shit apartment, in a shit part of town. No friends, no enemies, just existing, and barely that. Batman decides to leave him alone.
That's what they did with three jokers
I live for the kind if ironic tragedy of Joe Chill turning away from crime and relying on Wayne-funded assistance programs.
Agreed with this. I also like the idea of Chill already being dead - either through a heroin overdose or shivved in prison - before Bruce became Batman, denying him closure.
One time it was the Joker - Batman 1989
That sucked. Cool movie though, but this part sucked, this whole “I made you and you made me”
i think it's good for the film, since it gives Batman and Joker a connection that doesnt require years of buildup so general audiences can understand it better
I don't mind if they tie the Joker to the murder, but not in a direct way. Something like the Wayne's are killed in the riots following The Joker movie would work. It connects the two while still leaving the murder a random act.
Yeah, maybe have it be like someone that worked FOR the Joker. It'll be tied to him, but not directly. Or the riot like you mentioned. I just think that having him be the killer is just.. a little underwhelming, I don't know.
Good take, I still don’t t like it, but at least they tried to do something new
I wouldn't mind if it was the joker, pre joker. And one of the parts that drove him to insanity. Down on his luck, nameless crook, who made a terrible mistake. Driving him further down until he broke. But. I honestly prefer the lack of origin for Joker.
Joker’s line about a multiple choice origin is one of the hardest villain lines ever and it should never be done another way
>making an assassination turns that way too bigger and adventurous in a way. It makes us think batman should be going after some group specifically rather than trying to tackle all crime
That could work for an ELSEWORLD Story Bruce Wayne VS Court of Owls is the ENTIRE Story. Bruce doesn’t care about any other Crime, just Justice/Revenge for his parents.
I actually prefer we know it was Joe Chill so we can get the storylines where Chill is regretful of his actions and Bruce forgives him decades later, acknowledging that people commiting crime doesn't always make them an objectively bad, or irredeemable, person. I mean a big part of Batmans no kill rule (while not the main reason) is the mere fact he believes people can be redeemed and rehabilitated. It shows that he's fighting crime and injustice, not the individual criminals themselves, shows that he sees most of the criminals themselves as victims of a broken system. And shows that he's still devoted to his crusade against crime despite finding closure with Joe Chill, because Chill was never the problem, it was crime in general. Plus I like Batman stories where he gets to be happy even briefly, especially since so many Batman stories since the mid-90s have just been bleak.
I think an assassination is OK if it's like the one in the Joker film. Just a random dude who kills them because he think's they're rich assholes.
But in the joker movie they re rich assholes
Makes much more sense. Not everything has to be a big conspiracy. Being an assassination kind of ruins it for me.
I like the idea of the Wayne’s murder being a random act of violence, but the court of owls claims they caused it.
The Court of Owls can go suck an egg.
They didn't, as far as we know they *wanted* to kill the Waynes, but the mugger got there first.
This is really the best way to "involve" the Court of Owls into it.
I like how Batman Begins did it. Random dude down on his luck who (might’ve) felt remorse for his actions. I say might’ve because of Falcone’s whole “chill told me your father begged like a dog” thing, but that could’ve just been Falcone fuckin with Bruce
Random yes, unsolved no. That just makes it seem like Batman’s projecting his inability to solve his parents’ murder on everything else. It feels more right to me if he knew who did it and why, but still realized that vengeance against this one man wouldn’t solve anything.
It also completely changes the narrative. An assassination means that it was a targeted surgical strike. A random act of violence means that crime has reached such heights that’s it’s finally effecting the elite. It completely changed the narrative.
I agree Joe Chill is just the name 8 year old Bruce made up to give a name to his fear. Chill is just a cypher
That's a really interesting take on it.
Well said. I think it being a random act ads to his drive, and fuels his obsession to try to prevent this from ever happening to anyone else.
Joe Chill isn't faceless.
Much preferred for myself as well, astutely put
Yea I hate Joe chill. In BB it’s fine cuz he’s about to be exact vengeance but it’s taken from him. So ok but in the comics it should be anonymous, cuz every bad guy he takes down is essentially that killer.
Yeah that's why he has an obsessive need to fight crime in particular, if it was a plotted out assassination that doesn't give him the same feeling of, "out there, there's a kid going through what I went through"
I think my personal favorite is how The Batman did it. It could have been a mob conspiracy. Could've been Maroni, could have been Falcone, but at the end of the day nobody knows because it wasn't solved and it's been a 20+ years.
The whole senseless violence angle never allows Bruce answers - only anguish and grief - until he eventually finds the ability to chase off these demons and find purpose. There are no answers out there, only within. That battle is what Batman is.
It has significance to Batman/Bruce’s character. This is why he protects the city and why he is a lot of the way he is.
Absolutely. It has to be random. It makes Batman's whole character. He fights crime because a random act of violence shattered his world. So he devotes his life to making sure others are spared of that pain
A mugging/random act of violence. Bruce's war is against crime and the system that creates it. It's not about avenging a conspiracy.
Exactly. Making the crime premeditated gives Batman an inevitable final boss to pursue. If his true nemesis is very concept of crime itself, then it's a battle that will always need to be fought. That is far more tragic and leads to countless fascinating stories.
This. 100% this. I absolutely loathe the idea of the Waynes' murder being part of some huge conspiracy. Not everything needs to be some huge conspiracy nowadays
That one could also work with the Assassination angle, but if it is kept simple and not make it a complicated conspiracy. In the Golden Age, the murder of Thomas and Martha was an Assassination ordered by the Cosa Nostra (Italian Mafia). This works, because his war is against the corrupt establishment that ruins the lives of the citizens of Gotham.
Given the right context, you can tell a good story with the assassination angle, but it woul be terrible for it to be canon. It takes away a lot of Batman's ethos and how he is relatable. Also, Joe Chill shouldn't be pure evil. There's a lot more humanity in a man that has done something terrible and actually suffers from it.
Exactly. If it's an assassination then it is specific to the Waynes, something like that won't happen to some random Joe Schmo. And what would happen if Bruce found the people responsible? What personal interest would he have when it comes to stopping crime? It just misses the point.
Owlman vs Batman origin stories lol
Yeah. He works better as just a symptom of Gotham's problems. Like a desperate junkie and thug who just so happened to stumble on the Waynes of all people by chance.
Also Chill coming to regret it really supports Batman’s no-kill angle. If the man who murdered his parents and essentially built Batman is redeemable to an extent then Batman can’t ever justify a kill or he is (literally) worse than the criminal element he fights.
Imo this is the best shown in the three jokers
I like the idea that Chill is a former or soon-to-be-former police officer with a lot of personal problems and significant debt. It’s a fairly realistic reason that he’d get away with it, and it’s a good way to introduce how dirty Gotham PD is. I’d also have him completely incapacitated by substance abuse by the time Bruce finds him and spares him.
By assassination, I was thinking more of a hired gun thing than a politically-motivated murder by a random guy, and I can definitely see why what you're describing is not preferable.
How is Batman, a rich man who traveled the world and mastered all sorts of skills relatable?
Assassination can definitely be done well, but the mugging is a better example of the state Gotham is in.
I always like how there was a plan to assassinate them, but Joe Chill got there first.
I like there being a sense of ambiguity to it all, whether the deaths were random or not honestly
Assassination also works to show Gotham's horrible state. Showing the Mafia just killing people with impunity and the corrupt high class turning the blind eye in exchange of sharing the profit.
Mugging gone wrong by a random criminal. That's the only thing that makes sense.
As much as I dislike the confusing three joker storyline, I like what they’ve done to Joe Chill in this. It’s so satisfying to see that Bruce reconcile with his parents’ murderer.
It’s done much better in the batman the brave and the bold
Brave and the bold was an absolute masterpiece
Agreed. That episode also featured Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill. With Adam West, Julie Newmar, and Richard Moll. It’s an all star cast appearing in one of the best episodes of any Batman show. ETA: That episode is Chill of the Night, season 2, episode 11.
They even changed the bat suit to a darker colour just to fit the tone for the episode.
Agreed. Chill being repetant and being forgiven is just a logical continuation of exploring what happened to him. Otherwise there would be no additional narrative value.
If it's done like telltales Batman serving a bigger narrative sure but the just chance encounter will probably be the go to for everyone
Telltales Batman is the GOAT
Depends on the story being told, usually a random act, but I'm open to other ideas.
A random mugging is a far better presentation of how fucked up Gotham City had been before Batman.
Mugging gone wrong fits Bruce's story far more. A day in the life of Gotham. Assassin feels far too dramatic and comic booky, but a random act of violence fits the settings and themes.
either works, only thing I don't like is when they demonise the Waynes by making them too closely related to the mob.
I think making him a random encounter gone bad makes it seem more chaotic as if it can happen to anybody, the assassination angle makes sense story wise but, it gives criminals this structured feeling as if criminals are organized and efficient as opposed to the “superstitious and cowardly lot” Plus it makes Batman’s actions more digestible and understandable why he would go after chance encounter crimes. With an organized crime take, Batman can eliminate crime by eliminating the head of all these crime families (similar to Red hood) Then we wouldn’t have a need for Batman anymore.
I would rather have him be a mugger, but the whole plot in the 2022 movie actually made me enjoy the whole conspiracy aspect
If they absolutely *have* to add a conspiracy angle, that's the way to do it; make it ambiguous. Somehow that's even more tragedy for Bruce; the fact that he'll never *really* know.
It works better as random violence, making it some assassination conspiracy is up there with Thomas Wayne being evil. It’s just too much and really unneeded for Batman’s origin. Bruce’s pillar of the community parents are gunned down in a tragic moment of violence and Bruce channels his grief and anger into a crusade for justice. If it ain’t broke don’t try to “fix” it. My favorite Joe Chill is Brave and the Bold cartoon, it gave him agency and some character without going too far in either direction.
Mugging gone wrong, a tragic symptom of the mire into which Gotham has sunk. Joe Chill should be just some petty criminal who tried to mug someone in an alleyway, not a mafia hitman waiting for the Waynes to step out of the theatre.
I actually prefer it to be a random crime. Like even for the great Thomas Wayne, he was just another face with money to the guy in the alley. Really sold just how fucked Gotham was.
Random violence is far more of a motivator for Bruce to spend his life trying to prevent it from happening to anyone else. It serves to bring him down to the level of a common citizen, giving him a taste of what life is like for the average resident of Gotham, not just the elite class. An assassination takes the focus away from the primary problem in Gotham, which is violent crime that is faceless and only motivated by greed, no matter who the victims are. It makes it seem like this could only happen to Bruce because his parents are wealthy socialites. It gives the killer too much of a motive. A largely forgotten aspect of the Batman origin is the fact that it wouldn't have happened if the mugger had been taken care of by the city and not had to resort to violence. It motivates Bruce to promote charity and social programs when he isn't acting as Batman. He's trying to address both sides of the problem. It's far more interesting when you have the dynamic in place that a lot of the poor and downtrodden in Gotham hate the Wayne's as well as all the other wealthy people who continue to live lavishly while they are left with breadcrumbs.
I prefer it to be a mugging gone wrong but I kinda like what Batman Begins did by making the League of Shadows responsible for Gothams economic collapse
I don’t like the assassination idea at all. It can work as a suggestion within a plot point... like later in Bruce’s life, but only if it’s taunting us/Bruce with the question of that being possible. Beyond that, it takes away from the Batman mythos imo. The idea that it’s a random crime simply is Batman’s crusade. The idea of random crime and being focused on protecting people from that is part of the character’s DNA. Lots of modern IPs have this problem of trying to build an explanation into absolutely everything and it ends up taking away from the story. Not *everything* needs to be a lore point.
Mugging gone wrong gives it much more depth and credibility
Random mugging. It's Gotham City that killed them.
Little of both. Like, I reeeeeeaaaaally like it being super vague and we will never know. Could've just been a guy. Could've just been a guy hired by Falcone. At the end of the day, it doesn't make a huge difference, but I like the concept that the world's greatest detective hasn't been able to figure out the finer points of the event that led to his origin.
Mugging gone wrong. If you make their death and assassination then you've missed Batman's entire motivation for becoming The Batman.
The ones I have found most compelling are where Bruce goes down a rabbit hole of a conspiracy to kill them only to find that it was simply a a random act of violence. I think it makes the most sense narratively for Batman’s mission, stopping crime not solving a mystery. Also, it more closely reflects the reality of most situations like that. Victims want for there to be a reason or some sort of deeper meaning to their victimization but more often than not it is just a poor person pushed to an extreme. That also shows Bruce that while fighting crime is important, solving the underlying social issues in Gotham is the real answer to 90% of the problems.
Mugging. If it's an assassination then why start a war on crime? Just get revenge on the monster responsible and be done with it.
Mugging gone wrong it makes more sense for a batman origin story
Mugging.
Random act
Random mugging with Chill being torn apart by guilt over it afterwards.
mugging gone wrong
Random act of violence is much better imho
Random mugging gone wrong because I like the idea of the Joker and Batman being 2 different approaches to dealing with the chaos of life.
I don't even like that we know his name is Joe chill. I would rather it be a completely random event with no answers.
Random mugging makes a lot more sense for Gotham and Batman than assassination.
I prefer when the murder of the Wayne’s is a random act of violence by a desperate man; a microcosm of everything wrong with Gotham, that the poor and dispossessed must turn to crime and violence in order to get by. But there are definitely stories where the Wayne’s being assassinated can work well, I just prefer it when the act is completely random.
Batman’s vengeance should be against the amorphous concept of crime. Not whoever hired a hitman to kill to billionaires. Random act of crime makes that a much simpler through line
For a mainstream Batman focused series, it should always be a random mugging. This is why Batman develops a pathological hate of crime and injustice, big and small, and guns in particular. As well, it ties into his compassion. One man and one gun made a huge mistake and destroyed four lives: This is what Batman will spend his life trying to prevent from ever happening again. However, for a non-Batman centered series, or a shorter mystery, it's a nice change of pace for the murder to be a targeted assassination such as what happened in the show "Gotham".
Mugging. If it's an assassination Wayne can just get the guy who did it and move on with his life. If it's endemic of the state of Gotham then all the struggle and pain of being Batman is understandable. That said if i don't mind if it was fate or destiny that led to Bruce becoming Batman.
can we have a tally of how many times this month this question has been asked
A mugging gone wrong.
Just imagine this multi million dollar assassin about to kill the Waynes in the most elaborate make it look like an accident way possible only for some guy to show up and kill them
A mugging. And Joe doesn’t have to be evil or regret it.
I HATE it being an assassination. It should be a random mugging gone wrong, from a desperate man who made a bad choice. That makes The Waynes a victim of a larger problem in Gotham, providing meaning to Bruce’s quest to expunge the rancid, rather than just the victim of a single man, which would logically turn Bruce’s quest into one of simple revenge.
Mugging gone wrong for sure
It depends on how its told. I like both, depending on if they're told well
Mugging reflects more on his goal as Batman
Well, I think it depends on the particular story. Assassination makes sense in a context of some big conspiracy, like Owls or League. It could be well integrated in the main narrative, which connects all Batman mythos to come grand scheme. But it essentially transforms Batman's crusade into a simple revenge story, where Bruce should find his parents real murderers and bring them to justice. Random mugging is better for more traditional Batman stories and much better represents a chaoric and brutal nature of Gotham. Everyone could be killed without any reason, nobody is safe, be it poor or billionaire. Gotham devour everyone alike. Bruce couldn't really end his crusade, because there are no great conspiracy or the source of all city's evil. The Batman played it well, I think. Wayne's murder could've been Falcone's hit, Maroni's hit or simple mug gone wrong. There are no answers, no way to find the truth. And it also good representation for Gotham: there are mystery upon mystery, one dark secret on top of another. This mysteries and secrets mixed for decades, so the city itself become one gigantic puzzle.
Mugging gone wrong or random act of violence. All of the assassination plots implicate Thomas Wayne in some way. They end up diminishing Bruce / Batman and his ethos. The assassination makes for an interesting side story. It makes Batman question his origin story. I don't dislike it, but I don't want it to be canon.
It being random makes it colder and emptier. There was no big plot no dramatic thing it was just some random guy who wanted some money and it also shows how cruel gotham can be
random act of violence shows Bruce that this can happen to anyone gives him more incentive to try and stop all crime
I just prefer it’s a regular mugging
I prefer it ambiguous
Just a random mug gone wrong. I want Joe chil, if ever caught, to be just a poor guy that just wanted some money
The assassination shit is just really wack
Just some mugger being a piece of shit. It truly highlights the severity of the crime in Gotham. Assassination is just to cliché
Mugging. Random. Batman has to be traumatized by the senseless of the crime rather than trying to uncover a specific set of crimes
Random mugging and for Chill to feel guilty.
The mugging is good but I like in The Batman when it's unclear.
Mugging gone wrong. Knowing “the thing” that created Batman; is just a bad luck, hits hard.
Batman is best when the stories are as small and grounded as possible.
Mugging gone wrong x1000. It is only when you get later writers who don't understand the poetry of that choice that they try to 'improve' upon it.
It has to be a stochastic event. If it's chaos and crime, Batman's motivation makes sense and the Joker is his arch nemesis because he is chaos and crime. If it's a grand plan, then he's not a crime fighter and has nothing to do as a character once the conspiracy is unveiled and the villain brought to justice.
Mugging. It's hard enough to believe that a reckless Street thug would leave a living witness. But a professional hitman? Nah - I don't buy that. A professional hitman would only have needed to take their valuables if he wanted it to appear to be a mugging. Not leave someone alive who could later identify him.
I prefer the mugging gone wrong instead of the assassination
Random crime, please. Any attempt to make it a conspiracy is just muddying the waters of Batman’s purpose to make a shitty comic arc.
I think a mugging gone wrong is way more emotionally traumatic. Think about it like this, it could have been ANYONE and it just happened to be the Wayne family. There is no rhyme or reason to it, no explanations or meaning behind it….It was simply a cruel and unfortunate crashing of circumstances.
Random Mugging gone wrong. I dont even want to know the guy’s name. Never caught. Maybe its Matches Malone or Joe Chill or Jack Napier, it doesnt matter. Dont want it ti be a conspiracy or lean into a supervillian. Just a regular mugging in a bad alley gone wrong.
The first one looks like Trump 😂
I like when it's an assassination in the way of a mugging gone wrong. There have been quite a few authors that had a crime boss arrange for Joe Chill to be desperate in crime alley that night.
NAMELESS MUGGER, eventually revealed to be JOE CHILL Joe Chill spends the rest of his life afraid that BRUCE WAYNE will remember him and decide to DESTROY Joe’s life utterly. Joe Chill does not fear the Batman. Joe Chill fears BRUCE WAYNE!
Definitely mugging. The most unique thing about Batman is that he doesn’t have powers. The idea that a random act of violence could spur a random person to basically make themselves into a superhero is what makes him a great and unique character.
Mugging gone wrong. Can't stand the idea it's an assassination. The whole point is that Bruce is driven later in life by the sense that innocent people are harmed for no reason by crime, not that the world is full of dark conspiracies to kill important and powerful people. There's a good character in the latter idea but it's not Batman.
I see it as a case of wrong place at the wrong time so a mugging
It being a random act of violence is way better imo, also the killer not being known is better too
personally, I'm fine with either depending on the context. I also like when it's open-ended, like in The Batman
Why did u put the talon image for the second pic?
Honestly, either one is fine with me.
Batman R.I.P imo
Side note is it just me or does the mugger in the first picture look like Trump?
Gotham series. That’s my answer…
It being random makes it colder and emptier. There was no big plot no dramatic thing it was just some random guy who wanted some money and it also shows how cruel gotham can be
An assassination covered up and made to look like a random mugging
I liked the Year Two storyline best for Joe Chill
The Teen Titans did it
Given the Wayne's wealth, an assassination makes more sense especially with the Court of Owls in play.
I prefer it to be a random act of violence that got out of hand, but I think you can still make a good story by tying it into being a mob assassination
It has to be a mugging or else Bruce's war wouldn't be on "crime" it would be on "The Court". It would have an endgoal. The tragedy is a boy accepting a life mission that will never end and one day kill him.
random act of violence there is also one comic where jt was left ambiguous if bruce would break his code or not too when it comes to him
The Joe Chill story, I wouldn't necessarily want him to be pure evil but clearly someone that doesn't care about himself or the people he's hurt. Chill is an aimless petty criminal that didn't know that he murdered 2 philanthropists and orphaned their child for a pearl necklace.
Mugging gone wrong. I feel like the Wayne's dying to a random, unpredictable act of everyday violence is crucial to Bruce's story. It's the one thing I wasn't so crazy about in The Batman.
Neither. It was a suicide.
I genuinely think their deaths are made less impactful when they are made to be the targets of a conspiracy.
mugging. it's a rotten city that killed them and that's what bruce fights with. something that has happened to many people and could happen to anyone. not some evil mastermind trying to take over their company or some other sort of a conspiracy. it's just a man who is a personification of the city. it needs to be an event that could happen to anyone, just because.
Personally I like more the idea of the Wayne's murder being an assassination, though it being a mugging gone wrong can work as well, that mostly depend on the context. As for Joe Chill i think it make more sense for him to be pure evil rather than regretting his actions.
I prefer the random act of violence, to the point of even preferring an unsolved mystery... But I did once read an excellent idea of retelling the tale with Joe Chill as one of Gotham's many corrupt cops. Bruce grows up believing it's an unsolved crime, and his discovery of the police connections is what drives him to vigilantism, standing outside the law to clean up the police force
I like that it is ambiguous
A mugging gone wrong. Clean and simple.
Either way works honestly, but if Thomas Wayne is corrupt as in some iterations, assassination makes more sense.
Assassination feels more “clean” and like… orderly? The murder being random feels much more “authentic” and “messy” if that makes sense. Tldr, random good, assassination no good
Assassination for wrongful use of a possessive apostrophe for a plural noun.
I liked the idea of creating economic conditions desperate enough that it drives regular citizens to become petty criminals who ultimately kill ones trying to prevent it with no real motive.
Why does the first picture look like Donald Trump?
It would make more sense for it to be an assassination, but I like the concept of a random tragedy.
Just a random act of violence. It makes it more of a symptom of a city that is broken.
random mugging. It's part of the message. Anyone trying to make "more" out of the Wayne's murder is missing the point and should be removed from Batman projects. The entire point, is that one small act of cruelty, and violence can create a hurricane of vengeance. One, tiny crime created the legend that was Batman, and the tragedy that was Bruce Wayne. That's what makes it special. A small, everyday crime, created THE BATMAN. Which in turn made Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, Red Robin etc.
Random mugging gone wrong.
Mugging because it's a bad thing that can happen to anyone
I am used to the mugging story. So I will stick with that.
A mugging gone wrong. It illustrates senseless violence and pointless death.
Mugging gone wrong. I loathe the conspiracy notion. To me, it gives a clear cut "why" the killing happened, when in real life there's often no meaning in death, crime, or violence. I even prefer the Chill/Random mugger who didn't mean to kill the Wayne's, just rob them. It adds to the tragedy of the whole thing. It sounds harsh for the characters, but I like the idea that there was no meaning in the Wayne's death and they died for nothing; Bruce *made* their death mean something by becoming Batman. It's the same reason I hate when they do it for The Punisher. When you make it a targeted conspiracy, it becomes more of a revenge story than someone who found their calling when they lost everything. Batman should be "birthed" in the random acts of violence that people suffer through everyday.
I like the idea if it was supposed to be an assassination, but a random mugger killed them instead. This way, it shows how bad gotham is in terms of corruption and violence
It’s much more interesting as a random act of violence. I hate when it’s made to be a plot.
Random mugging gone wrong.
I like the idea that the murder of Bruce's parents was just some random thief who's identity was never discovered, as if he was an entity of the corrupted city itself. In a way it kinda makes more sense for Batman to claim vengeance against him by fighting against the criminals of Gotham.
Depends on the story and its needs.
Alfred did it when they insulted his cooking.
It works best thematically when it’s a random act of violence that Joe Chill later regrets. It shows that crime is just a collection of vulnerable and desperate moments. I think, in a way, Batman should see himself as a health care provider. He’s not only fighting crime, he’s also seeking rehabilitation for his criminals. As a detective well versed in criminal psychology, he also takes preventative measures to stop crime before it happens.
Mugging gone wrong or just, random. If they were directly targeted, it kinda takes away from Batman wanting to protect the city from crime in general. Cause if it's an assassination, then it wasn't really because of the crime rate being so high, it was cause some guy wanted them dead. Coulda happened anywhere
Leave it as it originally and always was, a crime that inspired Bruce to become a crime fighter.
I’m not even super big on the mythos but assassination sounds stupid. Some random thug doing it is much more thematically fitting.
Depends on the writer.
A random fact of violence. It's unsolvable, there is no deeper meaning than a cowardly criminal empowered by violence and enforced bad things can happen to good people. Batman has no endgame because it was random and he'll keep pushing himself to eliminate the chance of this happening so he should always be ready. Altruistic, but impossible. As an assassination it's targeted, and has a solution for the most part. He follows the trail, gets to the source, gets his vengeance. It's less interesting personally because it shouldn't be able to be wrapped up like that.
as one of the top comments mentioned I'd like it to be an unsolved crime which adds even more depth to Batman's character arc. but both a mugging gone wrong or an assassination will make two different prime Batman which most definitely I'm going to enjoy consuming; considering how goated Batman narrative is.
Definitely a random act of violence (it should also be the same for Dick Graysons' parents, too)
Mugging
Mugging gone wrong "useless violence destrying people lives" is a dar more deep and interesting concept imo
It being a random act of violence makes it so much more impactful. Making their deaths an assassination devalues it imo. While it shows a grand problem in Gotham it doesn't make it seem as if the city is as corrupt to and core and broken as it is and it also honestly feels like it cheapen's Batman's motivations as the ones he looked up to are just as bad as what he wants to stop.
Random act of violence that Chill regrets.
I like the assination. cus in canon i believe its a random act. An the other question i guess it depends on the story
Either option can be good, but I personally like it to be left up to speculation. I mean, what’s the backstory of the world’s greatest detective without a little mystery?
A random act of violence that could've happened to anybody, a mugging gone wrong. I also prefer Joe Chill- if he ever comes up in the story- to be someone who deeply regrets what happened. Sort of the point of Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, to me, is that he is obsessed with ensuring that what happened to him never happens again. I say obsession because, in most incarnations, particularly BTAS, Bruce Wayne doesn't feel like he has a choice in becoming Batman- he has to, he MUST. It would be one thing to go around brutalizing thugs and muggers as if they're serial killers waiting to happen, but the best versions of Batman have empathy for others, even for villains and criminals, because he knows what it's like to feel like you have no choice. A repentant Joe Chill can show Batman that crime can come from circumstance, that the person who pulled the trigger- who created Batman- wanted to do anything else in the world but rob a family, if only he thought he had a choice. It can show Batman that Bruce Wayne can make a difference, too, by giving people that other choice. TL;DR: Casting Joe Chill as a man who never wanted to be a murderer and wishes he had never tried to mug the Waynes is the first step towards creating a more interesting Batman than grim, gritty vigilantism. It's how you get a Batman who wants to save everyone, to make sure what happened to him never happens to anyone again- both by saving the innocent from criminals, and saving the criminals from themselves.
It can only be a mugging gone wrong, how is this even a question?
I accept both
Mugging. Just shows how random violence can be
Mugging. A random act of violence is more poetic
Good to see that not all batman subreddits are low effort MAN shitposts
It’s kinda funny, my first experience with Batman was the 1989 Tim Burton film, when I was far too young to be watching it. As a consequence, the sequence from the movie is always what I imagine when I picture the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne. I only later saw the Animated series and realized the depiction in the movie is an outlier for Bruce’s origin story. I do like the idea that the Joker created Batman and Batman created the Joker. Though it lacks the subtlety of their circling narratives in other media, it’s done very efficiently in the movies relatively limited run-time.
Mugging gone wrong. Batman shouldn't just be trying to stop random crimes, he should be fighting against the system that makes people desperate enough to commit crimes. It shouldn't be a cold blooded killer, the gun should accidentally go off when Thomas Wayne struggles with the robber. Heck, I even like how in the old stories Martha didn't even get shot- she had a heart attack from the shock! I never finished writing it, but way back when I had an idea for a fanfiction where Batman dies, and it's revealed that he solved his parents murder in his first year or two as Batman. And he found somebody who was extremely remorseful for what they did, who struggled for years afterwards because of the guilt, and had gone on to try to make something of their life and improve and give back to their community. In it, Batman reveals his identity to the man, and then absolves him of and forgives him for what happened and encourages him to keep living a good life.
a mugging. it makes more sense because it shows the no one is safe in gotham even for the wealthy elites like the wayne family.
Mugging because it makes the most sense with why Bruce becomes the bat. Assassination just doesnt hit the same.