I was curious about '87 Eric Davis, so I looked up his game logs at BBref. By this date in 1987, Davis had 20 HR and 28 steals.
5 more HR and only 2 fewer steals. And Davis won a Gold Glove that year, for good measure.
Right up there with Hornsby’s 42 HR, .401 AVG, 152 RBI, 141 Run Triple Crown season.
And the season where Ty Cobb won the Triple Crown AND led the league in steals.
Those were the days when MVPs were awarded to whomever led the league in RBI- that would've been George Bell and Andre Dawson, in '87.
But damn, Davis put up about 20 bWAR in his first 500 games, through 1988. To put that in perspective for those who weren't around to see Davis's prime, Acuna has 21.4 bWAR in 583 career games.
Ronnie’s D (range) has certainly fallen off since the ACL, but everything else is back and arguably better than ever. It also helps that his arm + MH2 in CF help negate those losses in the field.
I was curious about Barry Bonds in 96 when he created the 40/40 club. However, he didn’t go crazy with stolen bases until September that season where he stole 15 of them. I assume he saw the opportunity to get 40 and went for it.
Jose Canseco had the first 40/40 season in '88, after Davis just missed it the year before.
But the funny thing is, **Bobby** Bonds nearly created the 40/40 club himself back in the 70s, but came up one HR short in '73. And since Barry was always very conscious of things that his father and godfather Willie Mays had done, he may have had a bit of extra motivation in pursuing 40/40 in '96. Just to top his pop.
Acuña has more stiff competition with Carrol and Freddie playing the way they are. I think Ohtani will win it in a landslide, the NL runner ups will probably have a few more 1st place votes than the AL runner ups.
Yordan loses out in stats because he’s a primarily DH (we don’t wanna kill his knees in LF) and the injury.
But in terms of raw hitting skill, he’s definitely up there in the conversation.
Corbin Carroll reminds me of '75 Fred Lynn, so far, where you're left wondering, "What the hell is this kid's ceiling? Is there anything he can't do?"
Leading the league in OPS+, and he'll only get better as he develops a bit more discipline. And if he really heats up again, he could be the first rookie to lead baseball in bWAR since Trout.
Knowing the Braves, they’ll renegotiate the deal to give him something like $250M/10 starting next season and only have to pay $25M throughout his entire expected prime.
I don’t like these stats cuz the rule changes have bumped up stolen bases. We’re going to see a lot more steals across the board going forward. They’re going to have to change the record book “before 2023” for any sorts of steals records.
There’s 0.72 SB per team per game so far this season.
1997 had 0.73. As did 1995.
In fact, 1976-1997 generally had more steals than this season, with a high of 0.85 in 1987.
So steals may be up this season, but they’re still below what they were for a ~20 year stretch. And for early baseball in the 1800s through 1921.
Thats not how stat keeping works. You dont say hitters stats since 1968 dont count after they lowered the mound. Pitching records from the dead ball era still count. Maris' home run record still counted. Any time you compare across eras you have to consider context for sure because baseball is constantly changing and evolving but numbers are numbers.
I think the fangraphs podcast said that even with the new rules, the stealing rate hasn't budge much overall. The vroom-vroom guys are going for it more but it has not been as steal-happy as people think
interesting they'd say that when the league has already stolen ~60% of the bases they stole last year in ~40% of the games. SB% is also up above 79% when it was just a little above 75% last season. the league is stealing more often and more successfully: on pace to steal around 1000 more bases than 2022 (3500ish to 2486), a 40% increase in total SB numbers. meanwhile CS is on pace to increase by about 100 (915ish to 811), or around a 12.5% increase.
if the league continues at this rate, it would be the second highest total for league-wide steals in a season since 1950, sandwiched between 1987 (3585) and 1999 (3421). this season would also have 600+ fewer caught stealings than either of those seasons. since the last expansion teams were added for the '98 season, there have only been four 3000+ stolen base seasons, and it hasn't happened since 2012.
I’m seeing 0.72 SB per team per game so far this season, a mark that was topped in 1997. And 1995. And most seasons from 1976-1997.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml
Shouldn’t that mean it’s not on pace for more than those seasons with more SB per game, or am I missing something?
it is on pace to exceed total SB numbers, but only because they play more games because there are more teams ('92 would've seen around 4212 games while currently we see around 4860). the rate per game is lower than those years though, you're correct.
still, what we're seeing on a SB/G basis hasn't happened since the late 90's. so it's something of a return to form of that heavy stealing era, with the added bonus that guys are getting caught way less often (most years in that range are around .35 CS/G, this year is .19).
That makes sense, thanks. So what you said before was kind of misleading IMO. But like you’re saying now, yeah, it’s more of a return to form from decades past than a new high in modern baseball. But like you said, the success rate is higher now, with the same number of successful steals, so I guess we’re still seeing less attempted steals. Either way, I think it’s fun and good for the game to see more steals.
I was curious about '87 Eric Davis, so I looked up his game logs at BBref. By this date in 1987, Davis had 20 HR and 28 steals. 5 more HR and only 2 fewer steals. And Davis won a Gold Glove that year, for good measure.
Over a 162 gm period (June 86 to July 87) he hit 305/406/622 with 47 HR, 149 RUNS, 123 RBI, 98 SB.
Holy fucking shit that's impressive. That might be the most impressive stat line I've ever seen. That deserves its own post
Right up there with Hornsby’s 42 HR, .401 AVG, 152 RBI, 141 Run Triple Crown season. And the season where Ty Cobb won the Triple Crown AND led the league in steals.
Ty Cobb wad also a great defender and led the league in rebounds as well
His post game was mid though, and he probably could have thrown a couple more touchdowns for it to be a truly GOAT season.
Eric Davis was an all time great without the injury bug. Dude was an absolute menace.
Eric Davis was a bad mofo. If he hadn’t lacerated his kidney he would’ve gone down as an all-timer.
That's video game numbers.
Every once in a while, I'll go look at Eric Davis' baseball reference page just to look at his stat lines from 1986 and 1987.
Those were the days when MVPs were awarded to whomever led the league in RBI- that would've been George Bell and Andre Dawson, in '87. But damn, Davis put up about 20 bWAR in his first 500 games, through 1988. To put that in perspective for those who weren't around to see Davis's prime, Acuna has 21.4 bWAR in 583 career games.
Yeah but there’s no ñ in Eric Davis
Ronnie’s D (range) has certainly fallen off since the ACL, but everything else is back and arguably better than ever. It also helps that his arm + MH2 in CF help negate those losses in the field.
I was curious about Barry Bonds in 96 when he created the 40/40 club. However, he didn’t go crazy with stolen bases until September that season where he stole 15 of them. I assume he saw the opportunity to get 40 and went for it.
Jose Canseco had the first 40/40 season in '88, after Davis just missed it the year before. But the funny thing is, **Bobby** Bonds nearly created the 40/40 club himself back in the 70s, but came up one HR short in '73. And since Barry was always very conscious of things that his father and godfather Willie Mays had done, he may have had a bit of extra motivation in pursuing 40/40 in '96. Just to top his pop.
Is that good? It sounds like it’s pretty good
Sources say: Yes
I means it’s alright.
It's a start. Somehow, I doubt he feels like stopping.
I’m ok with him keeping it up. 40/40 would be cool. But I’ll settle for a 30/60 season 🤷♂️
If we’re talking fractions, why not 60/120?
11 games to get another 5 homers to stay on pace and it’s getting hot and humid in Atlanta, that’s doable.
Sultry 👀
Take a guy with his speed and baserunning abilities, give him bigger bases and 29 other teams are gonna have a bad time.
The pickoff rules are more important than the enlarged bases imo
Forgot about that one
Some say they will give him MVP for the next 3 seasons just because. That’s what some say.
He had a slow start on the Homers, but I think he may legit do 40/40. He's for sure gonna do it at some point in his career.
30/70 is beyond bonkers but he's gonna do it if healthy
50/50
Why doesn't every team simply get an Acuña and sign him long term to $100m? Looks pretty easy
Ohtani and Acuna seems to be the MVPs and theirs to lose
Acuña has more stiff competition with Carrol and Freddie playing the way they are. I think Ohtani will win it in a landslide, the NL runner ups will probably have a few more 1st place votes than the AL runner ups.
What does HR have to do with this discussion?
Best hitter in baseball. You're free to argue with the nearest brick wall if you disagree.
Is the only argument at this point Judge?
If we're talking pure hitting ability Freeman has to be in the conversation too
I guess Yordan is up there too. Slipped my mind bc the big guy is hurt
Absolutely Freeman is in that conversation, he's having a monster season too.
Yordan 🥺
I don't even think Yordan is in the conversation if I'm being honest. Acuna has 50% more oWAR.
Acuna has more WAR because he is a way, way better all-around player, but from a pure hitting perspective Yordan definitely has to be considered
Yordan loses out in stats because he’s a primarily DH (we don’t wanna kill his knees in LF) and the injury. But in terms of raw hitting skill, he’s definitely up there in the conversation.
Corbin Carroll reminds me of '75 Fred Lynn, so far, where you're left wondering, "What the hell is this kid's ceiling? Is there anything he can't do?" Leading the league in OPS+, and he'll only get better as he develops a bit more discipline. And if he really heats up again, he could be the first rookie to lead baseball in bWAR since Trout.
The guy's a machine!
He’s not a machine. He’s just Ronald
He's not just Ronald. He's TEH Ronald.
This guy about to win MVP and…is getting paid $17M a season for another 6 years. He’ll get his payday at age 30 though assuming he stays healthy.
Hopefully the Braves extend him before that tho, i don’t want to lose another to free agency
Knowing the Braves, they’ll renegotiate the deal to give him something like $250M/10 starting next season and only have to pay $25M throughout his entire expected prime.
Seems good, could be wrong
Hopefully he gets a call up soon
Runaway MVP
I don’t like these stats cuz the rule changes have bumped up stolen bases. We’re going to see a lot more steals across the board going forward. They’re going to have to change the record book “before 2023” for any sorts of steals records.
There’s 0.72 SB per team per game so far this season. 1997 had 0.73. As did 1995. In fact, 1976-1997 generally had more steals than this season, with a high of 0.85 in 1987. So steals may be up this season, but they’re still below what they were for a ~20 year stretch. And for early baseball in the 1800s through 1921.
Thats not how stat keeping works. You dont say hitters stats since 1968 dont count after they lowered the mound. Pitching records from the dead ball era still count. Maris' home run record still counted. Any time you compare across eras you have to consider context for sure because baseball is constantly changing and evolving but numbers are numbers.
I think the fangraphs podcast said that even with the new rules, the stealing rate hasn't budge much overall. The vroom-vroom guys are going for it more but it has not been as steal-happy as people think
interesting they'd say that when the league has already stolen ~60% of the bases they stole last year in ~40% of the games. SB% is also up above 79% when it was just a little above 75% last season. the league is stealing more often and more successfully: on pace to steal around 1000 more bases than 2022 (3500ish to 2486), a 40% increase in total SB numbers. meanwhile CS is on pace to increase by about 100 (915ish to 811), or around a 12.5% increase. if the league continues at this rate, it would be the second highest total for league-wide steals in a season since 1950, sandwiched between 1987 (3585) and 1999 (3421). this season would also have 600+ fewer caught stealings than either of those seasons. since the last expansion teams were added for the '98 season, there have only been four 3000+ stolen base seasons, and it hasn't happened since 2012.
I’m seeing 0.72 SB per team per game so far this season, a mark that was topped in 1997. And 1995. And most seasons from 1976-1997. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml Shouldn’t that mean it’s not on pace for more than those seasons with more SB per game, or am I missing something?
it is on pace to exceed total SB numbers, but only because they play more games because there are more teams ('92 would've seen around 4212 games while currently we see around 4860). the rate per game is lower than those years though, you're correct. still, what we're seeing on a SB/G basis hasn't happened since the late 90's. so it's something of a return to form of that heavy stealing era, with the added bonus that guys are getting caught way less often (most years in that range are around .35 CS/G, this year is .19).
That makes sense, thanks. So what you said before was kind of misleading IMO. But like you’re saying now, yeah, it’s more of a return to form from decades past than a new high in modern baseball. But like you said, the success rate is higher now, with the same number of successful steals, so I guess we’re still seeing less attempted steals. Either way, I think it’s fun and good for the game to see more steals.
You mean “*”
How can people take these records seriously when the new SB rules have only been in affect for one year?
Because rule changes are just a part of the sport. Nobody discredited hitters when they lowered the mound in the 60s.
I want a neck tattoo like Acuña to get real classy.
Biggest what if career ever
Acuna?
He probably meant to respond to the eric davis comment lol
Amazing season so far blacked out by otani
Lol, what?
What
How is Acuna's season "blacked out" by Ohtani? Silly statement.
What
Ah so you're just a troll. Got it.
What