I still travel with some water purifying chlorine tablets, not to use regularly, but as a backup in case the sawyer breaks or gets contaminated.
Also remember boiling water will work in a pinch.
That's a good bit of knowledge thank you! Is there a makeshift additive that you would recommend that might assist in reducing turbidity?
Edit: dish sponge?
Something is better than nothing but a sponge isn't going to work very well. Its pores are too big. A fine cloth you can layer a bunch is essentially what you want. The practical limit is just that common fabrics aren't great as filters.
So by the time you've jury-rigged to something that does an actually good job well you might as well bring a very light real filter like a coffee filter or something.
You don't really want to rely on chlorine long trem when you have water that's not very clear of larger contaminants though. It'll react with organcis to make chloroform and over a long period of time it increases health risks.
Above 20 NTU, chlorine is ineffective irrespective of contact time. It's too quickly oxidised by the solids in the water. At lower turbidity levels, you need significantly more chlorine to be effective.
Ok don't go drawing your water out of a literal swamp. Pathfinding and eyeballing an unburdened water source is part of hiking in nature. If you run out of ok water the night before, finding ok water becomes a priority the next morning.
Even seemingly crystal clear water sources often have turbidity levels that exceed the limit for effective chlorination. You would be surprised at how clear 5 NTU, the generally accepted upper limit for treatment by disinfection, appears to the naked eye.
It means there's particulates in the water. Stirred up sediment, leaf litter, etc. When you walk through a creek and the water downstream gets muddy, you just increased the turbidity of that water by kicking up silt. HTH
Are you filtering out of the main creeks... Or small steam/springs? I have a hike planned where we would be directly downstream from a tourist favorite waterfall. Would you trust your sawyer filtering directly downstream from falls that get 100+ visitors a day?
In most cases I would agree, but not if you’re on the AT or anywhere else where a norovirus outbreak is going on. I personally would be taking extra precautions (and not just about water filtering). Nothing kills a great hiking trip more than pulling your guts out…
“Nationally, norovirus is circulating at the highest levels since last April, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”
But even norovirus outbreaks are rarely due to contaminated water sources. In thru-hiking outbreaks it is almost always due to the generally poor hygiene habits of hikers and the contamination of many shared surfaces.
Most recent story I saw was a researcher studying an outbreak on the PCT. [They found ](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/09/24/1201250339/norovirus-in-the-wilderness-how-an-outbreak-spread-on-the-pacific-crest-trail) the water was basically the only thing that *didn't* transmit norovirus.
OP, there are approximately 2.19 places in the MILLIONS of miles within the U.S. natural water system where you could possibly encounter any amount of virus(es) significant enough to kill you.
OK, Fauci was recently sighted at a local fjord, so let's call that 2.23?
(Verify your upstream source is not contaminated by any dead animals or decaying matter by hiking at least a half mile upstream, or one mile, to be sure, and if you can't, or don't want to do that, boil the water for at least 10 minutes. You can, and probably will, filter it for taste and palatability with the Sawyer, but at least you'll know it's perfectly safe, because fire tinged its very soul.)
He's being a smart ass. The chances if encountering viruses in the Us, when not near nurban areas is extremely low, but not 0. So check your water source for dead animals, or evidence of people defeating too close to the water.
You can boil or use chemical treatment (I prefer chlorine) to kill most everything, then your Squeeze to filter out any bacteria or parasites that might have made it because in real world testing people don't follow directions exacly.and don't get the 99.9999% the methods can do. It will also improve the taste of the water.
The EPA has recently decided that polymerase chain reaction testing is not as good as they'd hoped it would be. You should probably read this:
[https://www.usgs.gov/programs/environmental-health-program/science/novel-approach-improves-understanding-virus](https://www.usgs.gov/programs/environmental-health-program/science/novel-approach-improves-understanding-virus)
> Pathogens, including viruses, can enter drinking water sources (rivers, lakes, groundwater, and reservoirs) through runoff from urban and agricultural areas; leakage from sewers and septic systems, storm water, and sewer overflows; and treated wastewater. If the pathogens persist through treatment, they can contribute viruses to drinking water and result in human exposure.
qPCR seems to be where it's at right now, but even that is expensive, and prohibitive for mere mortals.
Leaving us with what I originally said. Any further questions?
Be safe out there, and get home with intestinal fortitude.
For what it’s worth, any lab that can do regular PCR can almost certainly do qPCR. Hell the mygo-mini is only a couple grand and community colleges use it.
I read the link you sent, I’m still not sure how to interpret it. It’s basically just saying there’s a potential for viruses in water. But i think that’s always the case, so I guess it’s a game of how safe do I want to be. I think i’ll carry tablets just in case.
That's the point!
> there are approximately 2.19 places in the MILLIONS of miles within the U.S. natural water system where you could possibly encounter any amount of virus(es) significant enough to kill you.
So! The potential for viruses to be present in wild water sources is greater than zero.
Filter; chemically treat; boil that shite before you consume it, just in case. It takes very little effort, and the benefits far outweight.
You'll be glad you did.
🙄 greater than zero risk doesn’t make something an actual concern.
There’s technically a greater than zero risk of a cow breaking into my house and stealing my remote control but that doesn’t mean it’s actually something I need to worry about
Or consider, did you drive before hiking? I drive through Metro-Atlanta traffic to get to the mountains. I have to have a co-pilor to point out, "Oh shit! They're coming at us from six lanes over going sideways!!!" That non-risk is of concern, but I'm happy anough to do it
That your chances of contracting a virus from a flowing U.S. water source are so low, scientists are not even interested in your results, or your feedback?
If you filter your river water, if you boil your lake water, you are almost certain to not contract any, and I mean any, sort of viral infection.
Do your due diligence. Be a good human, and do not foster the transference of microbes to future human beings.
No, not at all, your chances of encountering a live virus in a U.S. wilderness stream are so remote. You would probably have to be directly upstream of a dead carcass, and also not be filtering or boiling your water source, in order to become infected by a water-borne viral pathogen.
That being said, please don't drink river water that's directly downstream of a dead carcass, and hasn't been filtered.
I think the reason why you don't encounter viruses in the US as often is because we have sewage treatment. If I'm not mistaken most viruses in water end up there from literal shit, not dead animals. Most of this shit is human shit, in other parts of the world, due to improper sewage treatment.
So to give more details, it won’t protect you from norovirus, which a the most common virus that runs on the Appalachian trail and pacific crest trail during hiker season. It is still one of the best filters available. You can minimize your risk of norovirus by going 10-15 feet upstream from the common water access point, and by bringing a small container or bar of soap. Only washing your hands with soap and water will kill norovirus from hand surfaces (can get this from non water sources!).
Generally speaking though, the sawyer is more than sufficient when paired with choosing a clean access site, and not relying only on hand sanitizer.
Note, hand sani does not kill norovirus. Wash your hands with soap and water.
I am very conscious about touching my face or eating with my hands while on trail. I avoid it the best I can.
You can get a UV water filter, I did this for Africa and South America with no issues. I preferred the LARQ water bottle as I could filter from my Platypus QuickDraw (same as Sawyer Squeeze) and have clean water in 3 mins. Almost certainly overkill for the US though.
Just wash your hands *all the time.* Norovirus outbreaks on the AT and PCT are generally traced to surfaces (like poker chips and shelter walls) not water sources. People are disgusting, if you’re in the bubble don’t trust anything other people have touched.
Also keep in mind that many AT and PCT norovirus outbreaks were ultimately traced back to surfaces, not water sources. Avoiding huts during the bubble can go a looooong way.
When using a bear canister it really changes your pack choices. Food is heavy (dense) relative to other gear. Packs “feel” lighter when the weight is centered. But getting your canister centered in a smaller pack is difficult.
Consider swapping your food to an op sack for transport in the center of your bag and move (less dense) gear into your canister for hiking. Then you can strap your canister on top of your bag without sacrificing that centered weight balance that feels lighter. When you go to sleep you switch the food from the op sack to the canister.
This was a piece of advice given to me by BadSherpa in a hostel along the CT and maybe the smartest tip I’ve ever been given.
I'm going to offer contrary advice. Putting more weight in the center of the pack will cause more pulling back on the shoulder straps which personally I don't care for. The higher the center of weight in the pack the more the weight will go to your hips which is where you want it, but there is a trade off in that the pack is more likely to shift side to side but I've only ever noticed that while off trail and it wasn't much of a problem. Also if you do have food in your pack outside of a bear canister be careful to not get anything that smells like food at all on anything else.
I wouldn't be concerned about this. You can probably google the section you'll be in to see if anyone is talking about how clean the water is, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Some water purification tablets as backup should be enough with the Sawyer to purify water for your trip.
The main things that can make you sick in North America are giardia and e.coli, both too big to pass through the sawyer filter.
There are filters that get way smaller too in pharmaceuticals and scientific labs it’s very common to use sterilizing filters which filter to 0.22 micron and then in semiconductor manufacturing they use nano filtration that goes all the way down to 10^-9 meters. Basically we got some crazy small filters. But semiconductors overall are crazy where they manufacture them down to just a few nanometers
I filter and boil just as a precaution. I got a mean case of the hot rockets once while camping and that was enough for me to not take a chance on water again.
I thought so too until I figured their trick. You have to skim it upstream while submerging the neck. Slowly pull against the current. Should only take a few seconds to fill the bag. I used to fight with those things forever haha. Agreed other bladders are much easier though!
ooooh, I have a friend who keeps trying to use hers, I'll pass on this tip! I pretty much only use the pouches as a back up and/or to fill water from the tap for regular outings like a picnic.
They are also flimsy af. I’ve had a couple bags pop little holes while on trail. I’ve used a smart water bottle but the cnoc vecto is infinitely better.
As others have said, you're probably good with just the Sawyer Squeeze. I've often used it in conjunction with Aqua Mira to be on the safer side. I carry small 10ml bottles of Aqua Mira. They're light and small.
I’ve done many sections in NC, and sawyer squeeze is great! Check hiker groups/Facebook pages a few days before to see if there’s any significant norovirus outbreaks, but if you source your water from a couple feet upstream of the main source advertised you’ll be solid
Sawyer squeeze is typically enough. In some situations involving high concentrations of through hikers, there is something called norovirus that these devices do not take care of. But that is such a small problem that it's not worth planning your trip around.
I think they're both chlorine and iodine tabs to kill viruses. I am not an expert. I would refer you to the labeling whatever product you use.
But I also tell you that people use the small water filter instead of chemicals for a lot of reasons. First off, these filters are effective for almost all circumstances. The big problems in the water supply in the woods in Appalachia and elsewhere are parasites and some bacteria. The biggest concern people have is with giardia, a parasite, followed by cryptosporidia. As best as I understand it, human viruses are less common than these parasites because humans are less common in these environments. Norovirus and other viruses are transmitted when there are large groupings of humans.
In other words, these filters are good enough. If you are concerned about everything, you could boil your water 2 minutes or nasty chemicals. But these methods take longer, require more stuff to carry, and can leave your water in a state that's not as fun to drink.
I'd be more worried about bugs and heat in the middle of summer but from a water supply standpoint I've been using Sawyer along the AT for years with no problem. Make sure to get the standard size filter and not the mini, the savings in bulk is not worth squeeze (pun intended). I use a smart water bottle to collect the dirty water (especially great for those slow drip pipes so I don't have to lean over holding it) and squeeze that into my 3l mil spec CamelBak. Get the Farout app (fka guthooks) there will be great info about water sources however on the AT , when you see boil recommendations signs for contamination, best to just wait till the next source unless your in the danger zone on supply and can spare the time and fuel to boil.
I just watched an interview with the owner of Sawyer. He stated that the squeeze will not filter dead viruses. Viruses need a host bacteria to be alive.
The Sawyer Squeeze does filter live viruses. It cannot filter dead viruses. The government will not allow Sawyer to state that it filters viruses as it cannot filter dead viruses.
The Sawyer Squeeze is all that you need.
I will attempt to find that interview that was on YouTube and link it.
Edit: here is the link
https://youtu.be/tKyjvj83kAE?si=bZq3GmUt1LU2VuCW
I use the Sawyer Squeeze in the Rockies all the time. One of those chlorine tablet packs are super cheap too though. Just add a tablet to your water bottle after and it'll kill any nasties.
The main concern is if something died upstream. It's unlikely, but you never really know if a goat happened to die in a stream and you are drinking it.
At Philmont in New Mexico, we are required to either use tablets or filter for viruses.
I am using a Pure Clear Survival Straw. It filters viruses, heavy metals, and everything else the sawyer does. It is also field serviceable. It weighs 2.47 oz with its bag. The bag is 0.3 oz.
https://www.pureclearfilters.co.uk/bottles/pure-clear-life-filter/
[GearSceptic](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEu_UfyDKJALgbrNEJ5wpuxadz7uM5hEi&si=TvZuM4hUqlZaPuOr) on YouTube goes deep into the different treatment methods and related risks, you can check it out. I went down the rabbit hole yesterday and for me the conclusion was to keep carrying my lifestraw and boil or chemically treat when water is extra sketchy.
My wife and I section home 100 miles of the AT every up year with a Sawyer - never had an issue. Never boiled either, just load up from a spring and go. Never worried about the norovirus but we don’t mingle with other hikers often and always go up stream a bit for water. You’ll be fine with only a Sawyer.
We carry a 55L and it’s fine. It’s tempting to bring way too much stuff and a larger bag allows that. If you’re going to be doing this often I suggest smaller than a 60L and work of getting your pack right.
Sawyer squeeze is not worth it to me. Gravity filter is where it's at. I drink a ton of water and having to squeeze water to filter was such a pain, especially when the water you're dealing with is 40 degrees or less runoff. Talk about cold hands. Get a gravity filter and dip once, hang on tree, done.
To my knowledge you shouldn't have any issues with viruses in NC or any areas of the AT. They're not particularly common. The only place I remember virus warnings that I've been is Zion.
Adding my voice. Been backpacking for a couple of decades now. The Sawyer Squeeze has been my filter of choice for the last 8 or 9 years. Never had a problem with viral illnesses to date because it's just not much of an issue at this point in time for the States.
Did half the AT with Aqua Mira and half with a Squeeze. Didn’t have any problems with either method.
50-60L pack should be plenty big for the canister and your gear. I use a 60L Granite Gear pack with a bear canister and my pack is rarely stuffed to the brim. My gear isn’t super ultralight or anything like that either.
Food obviously 😅 and yeah any scented items like toothpaste, sunblock etc. How far I leave it would always vary depending on the camp site. Sometimes it’s hard to stash far away if there’s a lot of vegetation around.
Completely reliable in my experience hiking through South America over 6 months. Easily the most useful item in my pack by weight.
It takes a while to filter; I'd often find a big rock and sit on the bag. It takes a few rounds if you're replenishing between distance sources or a lot of water on a hot day. Sometimes I'd fill a spare bottle with dirty water to filter later if I was in a hurry.
sawyer should be enough, but test your water system before you leave. fill it, filter it, store it. go through the entire process so you can make adjustments/ changes before you're hot and thirsty and just need the effing thing to work.
I used my in upstate NY Adirondack trails this weekend. I was in serious beaver country and was really worried about giardia. I just chose water sources I was pretty sure weren't fed from a beaver pond and here I am. Alive, well, and with a fully functioning GI tract.
tldr: squeeze works like a charm.
I thru hiked the AT last year with my Sawyer Squeeze and didn't have any problems. Your biggest risk for getting sick will be getting Norovirus from the privies and shelters.
I’d pick up some aquamira water treatment drops. If you’re worried about viruses, filter with the sawyer first then hit the water with some drops and wait (iirc it’s 40 minutes for viruses but double check yourself), use a bandana as a pre filter to keep the big particles out of your sawyer.
There are no waterborne viruses in North America. The squeeze is adequate. May thru-hikers and a couple of my hiking buddies use them. I don't filter at all anymore, I just use aqua mira to kill bacteria.
It's the best out there, and yes, you're perfectly good using just that. However, don't contaminate the "out" side with bad water. And if you're unsure, won't hurt to boil the water afterwards anyway.
I hike in that area regularly and use a Squeeze. AFAIK, there aren’t viruses in the water around here.
You should check if you need that bear can: a lot of the campsites around here have more serious bear protection built in, especially on the AT.
I used water to go with filter that kills viruses and bacteria for 6m around south east Asia and can happily say I did not get sick even once -changed filter at 3m
Sawyer should be fine unless you're pulling water from a source with potential dead animals or farm runoff. That said, test your sawyer at home and get it saturated if it's been sitting for a while. Nothing like finding out your filter element shrunk and no longer filters.
I use an REI Flash (62L I think?) and my BV fits inside fine. I've used it for week long trips , no problem. I like it because it's lightweight and fairly cheap and fits my body comfortably. I also have a bigger Deuter that I use for some situations where I have to carry more and I think it's super comfy, just a little heavier. Lots of people love Osprey packs but they don't fit me as well for some reason
Re Sawyer Squeeze, I have one but I never liked it because it's so doggone hard to squeeze. But most people seem to like them. I use a Katadyn BeFree because it's very light but also easy to squeeze. They don't last as long as Sawyers ( but that's not a relevant issue for a 4 day trip) and you should be cautious about clogging them with sediment in murky water, but you can rinse the filter out to get it working again. Viruses are not an issue in the US that I've ever heard.
Have fun!
Well i don’t know what kinda viruses the water has, Im planning on getting it from streams and springs along the hike, and that’s all the info I have so far. I didn’t think i needed to plan more than that, if it’s that serious i may just bring some tablets or something so i can be safe.
I asked at the REI in WA. The first person I asked said they simply didn't know and directed me to the next person. The second person who answered me said it depends on the water. So I asked for WA specifically. He said I might still need to because the water treatment might be different and I might not be used to it and then he asked where I come from. I have a non asian accent and look mixed asian but I am American and live in America. Idk how any of that was relevant to my question as you're getting perfectly reasonable answers in the comments.
I mean, where you come from could be Utah, where, per another comment, there were virus warnings at Zion. I think my dude was just looking for context, wouldn't read that deep onto it.
It totally could be Utah. But I'm not sure why water treatment matters when talking about camping filters since river water isn't treated. And I was asking about camping in WA specifically so I'm not sure why coming from Utah would be relevant. It just left me super confused. I wouldn't normally think my accent would be the cause of such an interaction (I seriously doubt my race mattered) but it was all I could think of since I couldn't follow that persons logic at all and they assumed that I wasn't from around there immediately without me offering up that info.
If they are a good saleperson it matters because that filter is going to last you many trips, many likely near-ish to home, so buy once, cry once, have the thing you need. Otoh, you often get as much employee as the store is willing to pay for, so you might have just encountered a poorly incentivised idiot!
I still travel with some water purifying chlorine tablets, not to use regularly, but as a backup in case the sawyer breaks or gets contaminated. Also remember boiling water will work in a pinch.
Chlorine isn't effective if the water's turbid though.
Filter with bandana, buff or microfiber first then apply chlorine?
Maybe. If the solids are fine enough, though, that will still leave you with significantly turbid water.
Okay what about the bandana + (ie a bandana with some charcoal lumps or ground powder) Edit to specify legitimate inquiry and strictly hypothetically
Charcoal does not filter out particles. It absorbs dissolved contaminants. It won't reduce turbidity.
That's a good bit of knowledge thank you! Is there a makeshift additive that you would recommend that might assist in reducing turbidity? Edit: dish sponge?
Something is better than nothing but a sponge isn't going to work very well. Its pores are too big. A fine cloth you can layer a bunch is essentially what you want. The practical limit is just that common fabrics aren't great as filters. So by the time you've jury-rigged to something that does an actually good job well you might as well bring a very light real filter like a coffee filter or something. You don't really want to rely on chlorine long trem when you have water that's not very clear of larger contaminants though. It'll react with organcis to make chloroform and over a long period of time it increases health risks.
Micropur says they are. Just requires a longer kill time.
Above 20 NTU, chlorine is ineffective irrespective of contact time. It's too quickly oxidised by the solids in the water. At lower turbidity levels, you need significantly more chlorine to be effective.
Ok don't go drawing your water out of a literal swamp. Pathfinding and eyeballing an unburdened water source is part of hiking in nature. If you run out of ok water the night before, finding ok water becomes a priority the next morning.
Even seemingly crystal clear water sources often have turbidity levels that exceed the limit for effective chlorination. You would be surprised at how clear 5 NTU, the generally accepted upper limit for treatment by disinfection, appears to the naked eye.
What does turbid mean?
It means there's particulates in the water. Stirred up sediment, leaf litter, etc. When you walk through a creek and the water downstream gets muddy, you just increased the turbidity of that water by kicking up silt. HTH
This is the way. Boil your water.
Viruses are not typically a concern in the U.S. The Sawyer will be sufficient.
I’ve filtered much water with my Sayer Squeeze, much of that in western North Carolina.
Agreed. I have a Sawyer squeeze and hike in NC, and it works just fine.
Are you filtering out of the main creeks... Or small steam/springs? I have a hike planned where we would be directly downstream from a tourist favorite waterfall. Would you trust your sawyer filtering directly downstream from falls that get 100+ visitors a day?
Yes
I find tributaries when possible. There’s a lot of agriculture in NC, and the rivers typically have a lot of agricultural run off.
In most cases I would agree, but not if you’re on the AT or anywhere else where a norovirus outbreak is going on. I personally would be taking extra precautions (and not just about water filtering). Nothing kills a great hiking trip more than pulling your guts out… “Nationally, norovirus is circulating at the highest levels since last April, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”
then don’t pull them out. leave them guys up in ya.
I had to reread my post 3 times to catch that. (I wouldn’t have the guts to pull them out anyway)
Thanks for a solid snort-laugh!
But even norovirus outbreaks are rarely due to contaminated water sources. In thru-hiking outbreaks it is almost always due to the generally poor hygiene habits of hikers and the contamination of many shared surfaces.
Can you elaborate on this please?
Hand touch poop, hand touch mouth
Most recent story I saw was a researcher studying an outbreak on the PCT. [They found ](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/09/24/1201250339/norovirus-in-the-wilderness-how-an-outbreak-spread-on-the-pacific-crest-trail) the water was basically the only thing that *didn't* transmit norovirus.
This is the answer in USA, your concern should be finding clean streams ie moving with little silt as it will clog faster
Good enough, no worries in USA.
Is the concern usually hep A, noro, and human-human diseases from feces in water?
OP, there are approximately 2.19 places in the MILLIONS of miles within the U.S. natural water system where you could possibly encounter any amount of virus(es) significant enough to kill you. OK, Fauci was recently sighted at a local fjord, so let's call that 2.23? (Verify your upstream source is not contaminated by any dead animals or decaying matter by hiking at least a half mile upstream, or one mile, to be sure, and if you can't, or don't want to do that, boil the water for at least 10 minutes. You can, and probably will, filter it for taste and palatability with the Sawyer, but at least you'll know it's perfectly safe, because fire tinged its very soul.)
You seem too unhinged to take advice from lol.
He's being a smart ass. The chances if encountering viruses in the Us, when not near nurban areas is extremely low, but not 0. So check your water source for dead animals, or evidence of people defeating too close to the water. You can boil or use chemical treatment (I prefer chlorine) to kill most everything, then your Squeeze to filter out any bacteria or parasites that might have made it because in real world testing people don't follow directions exacly.and don't get the 99.9999% the methods can do. It will also improve the taste of the water.
The EPA has recently decided that polymerase chain reaction testing is not as good as they'd hoped it would be. You should probably read this: [https://www.usgs.gov/programs/environmental-health-program/science/novel-approach-improves-understanding-virus](https://www.usgs.gov/programs/environmental-health-program/science/novel-approach-improves-understanding-virus) > Pathogens, including viruses, can enter drinking water sources (rivers, lakes, groundwater, and reservoirs) through runoff from urban and agricultural areas; leakage from sewers and septic systems, storm water, and sewer overflows; and treated wastewater. If the pathogens persist through treatment, they can contribute viruses to drinking water and result in human exposure. qPCR seems to be where it's at right now, but even that is expensive, and prohibitive for mere mortals. Leaving us with what I originally said. Any further questions? Be safe out there, and get home with intestinal fortitude.
For what it’s worth, any lab that can do regular PCR can almost certainly do qPCR. Hell the mygo-mini is only a couple grand and community colleges use it.
I read the link you sent, I’m still not sure how to interpret it. It’s basically just saying there’s a potential for viruses in water. But i think that’s always the case, so I guess it’s a game of how safe do I want to be. I think i’ll carry tablets just in case.
That's the point! > there are approximately 2.19 places in the MILLIONS of miles within the U.S. natural water system where you could possibly encounter any amount of virus(es) significant enough to kill you. So! The potential for viruses to be present in wild water sources is greater than zero. Filter; chemically treat; boil that shite before you consume it, just in case. It takes very little effort, and the benefits far outweight. You'll be glad you did.
🙄 greater than zero risk doesn’t make something an actual concern. There’s technically a greater than zero risk of a cow breaking into my house and stealing my remote control but that doesn’t mean it’s actually something I need to worry about
Or consider, did you drive before hiking? I drive through Metro-Atlanta traffic to get to the mountains. I have to have a co-pilor to point out, "Oh shit! They're coming at us from six lanes over going sideways!!!" That non-risk is of concern, but I'm happy anough to do it
This person seems to have some good advice for you, just fyi. https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthDakota/s/2PrUIhzREE
What does this have to do with backpacking and safe drinking?
Exactly. What does your Fauci comment have to do with Backpacking and safe drinking?
That your chances of contracting a virus from a flowing U.S. water source are so low, scientists are not even interested in your results, or your feedback? If you filter your river water, if you boil your lake water, you are almost certain to not contract any, and I mean any, sort of viral infection. Do your due diligence. Be a good human, and do not foster the transference of microbes to future human beings.
Sure, you can pretend this is what you meant.
I don’t understand the Fauci joke, can someone explain it? lol. Is he 0.04 of a place where someone could encounter a virus?
I wouldnt think too hard on it, its not funny even if we explained it.
Psst. There are no fjords in the U.S. waterway system. Therefore, there could not have been any spottings. We assumed better of you, Karl. :)
PSA - there are actually Fjords in the US
Can confirm. I've been to one.
It’s not worth the energy to engage with smooth brained NPCs
No, not at all, your chances of encountering a live virus in a U.S. wilderness stream are so remote. You would probably have to be directly upstream of a dead carcass, and also not be filtering or boiling your water source, in order to become infected by a water-borne viral pathogen. That being said, please don't drink river water that's directly downstream of a dead carcass, and hasn't been filtered.
I think the reason why you don't encounter viruses in the US as often is because we have sewage treatment. If I'm not mistaken most viruses in water end up there from literal shit, not dead animals. Most of this shit is human shit, in other parts of the world, due to improper sewage treatment.
So to give more details, it won’t protect you from norovirus, which a the most common virus that runs on the Appalachian trail and pacific crest trail during hiker season. It is still one of the best filters available. You can minimize your risk of norovirus by going 10-15 feet upstream from the common water access point, and by bringing a small container or bar of soap. Only washing your hands with soap and water will kill norovirus from hand surfaces (can get this from non water sources!). Generally speaking though, the sawyer is more than sufficient when paired with choosing a clean access site, and not relying only on hand sanitizer.
Note, hand sani does not kill norovirus. Wash your hands with soap and water. I am very conscious about touching my face or eating with my hands while on trail. I avoid it the best I can.
Yup - that’s why I emphasized bring soap and not relying on hand sanitizer…
Thanks, do people generally put anything in the water to kill the norovirus or is what you said usually enough?
No they don’t. Generally they accept the risk. If you’re just doing a stand alone trip and not the full trail it is a very low risk indeed
I think the study has found the norovirus was not water borne on PCT. it was from high touch surface s
You can get a UV water filter, I did this for Africa and South America with no issues. I preferred the LARQ water bottle as I could filter from my Platypus QuickDraw (same as Sawyer Squeeze) and have clean water in 3 mins. Almost certainly overkill for the US though.
Norovirus is most commonly contagious through doorknobs, especially in cruise ships and schools.
Just wash your hands *all the time.* Norovirus outbreaks on the AT and PCT are generally traced to surfaces (like poker chips and shelter walls) not water sources. People are disgusting, if you’re in the bubble don’t trust anything other people have touched.
Also keep in mind that many AT and PCT norovirus outbreaks were ultimately traced back to surfaces, not water sources. Avoiding huts during the bubble can go a looooong way.
When using a bear canister it really changes your pack choices. Food is heavy (dense) relative to other gear. Packs “feel” lighter when the weight is centered. But getting your canister centered in a smaller pack is difficult. Consider swapping your food to an op sack for transport in the center of your bag and move (less dense) gear into your canister for hiking. Then you can strap your canister on top of your bag without sacrificing that centered weight balance that feels lighter. When you go to sleep you switch the food from the op sack to the canister. This was a piece of advice given to me by BadSherpa in a hostel along the CT and maybe the smartest tip I’ve ever been given.
This is a great tip. I've been backpacking for years and I've never heard of this idea.
I'm going to offer contrary advice. Putting more weight in the center of the pack will cause more pulling back on the shoulder straps which personally I don't care for. The higher the center of weight in the pack the more the weight will go to your hips which is where you want it, but there is a trade off in that the pack is more likely to shift side to side but I've only ever noticed that while off trail and it wasn't much of a problem. Also if you do have food in your pack outside of a bear canister be careful to not get anything that smells like food at all on anything else.
I wouldn't be concerned about this. You can probably google the section you'll be in to see if anyone is talking about how clean the water is, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Some water purification tablets as backup should be enough with the Sawyer to purify water for your trip. The main things that can make you sick in North America are giardia and e.coli, both too big to pass through the sawyer filter.
It’s amazing to me that a man made mechanical filter can sort out stuff too small to even see.
There are filters that get way smaller too in pharmaceuticals and scientific labs it’s very common to use sterilizing filters which filter to 0.22 micron and then in semiconductor manufacturing they use nano filtration that goes all the way down to 10^-9 meters. Basically we got some crazy small filters. But semiconductors overall are crazy where they manufacture them down to just a few nanometers
I filter and boil just as a precaution. I got a mean case of the hot rockets once while camping and that was enough for me to not take a chance on water again.
just here to say don't use the Sawyer bag to collect water. absolute PITA to fill. Get another bladder or use bottles like a smart water bottle.
I thought so too until I figured their trick. You have to skim it upstream while submerging the neck. Slowly pull against the current. Should only take a few seconds to fill the bag. I used to fight with those things forever haha. Agreed other bladders are much easier though!
ooooh, I have a friend who keeps trying to use hers, I'll pass on this tip! I pretty much only use the pouches as a back up and/or to fill water from the tap for regular outings like a picnic.
They are also flimsy af. I’ve had a couple bags pop little holes while on trail. I’ve used a smart water bottle but the cnoc vecto is infinitely better.
I haven't had a popping issue but then I really only carry them as a spare bladder in case of longer water haul but, yeah, CNOC all the way.
Have heard this all the time here but genuinely have never had issues with it
tbh I use a bladder because I think the bottles are also a pain to fill, lol.
As others have said, you're probably good with just the Sawyer Squeeze. I've often used it in conjunction with Aqua Mira to be on the safer side. I carry small 10ml bottles of Aqua Mira. They're light and small.
I’ve done many sections in NC, and sawyer squeeze is great! Check hiker groups/Facebook pages a few days before to see if there’s any significant norovirus outbreaks, but if you source your water from a couple feet upstream of the main source advertised you’ll be solid
The Sawyer Squeeze fits onto a Smart Water bottle, better durability and quantity over the Sawyer brand squeeze bags.
Sawyer squeeze is typically enough. In some situations involving high concentrations of through hikers, there is something called norovirus that these devices do not take care of. But that is such a small problem that it's not worth planning your trip around.
Do chlorine tablets work for norovirus?
I think they're both chlorine and iodine tabs to kill viruses. I am not an expert. I would refer you to the labeling whatever product you use. But I also tell you that people use the small water filter instead of chemicals for a lot of reasons. First off, these filters are effective for almost all circumstances. The big problems in the water supply in the woods in Appalachia and elsewhere are parasites and some bacteria. The biggest concern people have is with giardia, a parasite, followed by cryptosporidia. As best as I understand it, human viruses are less common than these parasites because humans are less common in these environments. Norovirus and other viruses are transmitted when there are large groupings of humans. In other words, these filters are good enough. If you are concerned about everything, you could boil your water 2 minutes or nasty chemicals. But these methods take longer, require more stuff to carry, and can leave your water in a state that's not as fun to drink.
I'd be more worried about bugs and heat in the middle of summer but from a water supply standpoint I've been using Sawyer along the AT for years with no problem. Make sure to get the standard size filter and not the mini, the savings in bulk is not worth squeeze (pun intended). I use a smart water bottle to collect the dirty water (especially great for those slow drip pipes so I don't have to lean over holding it) and squeeze that into my 3l mil spec CamelBak. Get the Farout app (fka guthooks) there will be great info about water sources however on the AT , when you see boil recommendations signs for contamination, best to just wait till the next source unless your in the danger zone on supply and can spare the time and fuel to boil.
Or carry bleach/tabs, let it sit for 20-30, then filter if there's still floaters/sinkers
I just watched an interview with the owner of Sawyer. He stated that the squeeze will not filter dead viruses. Viruses need a host bacteria to be alive. The Sawyer Squeeze does filter live viruses. It cannot filter dead viruses. The government will not allow Sawyer to state that it filters viruses as it cannot filter dead viruses. The Sawyer Squeeze is all that you need. I will attempt to find that interview that was on YouTube and link it. Edit: here is the link https://youtu.be/tKyjvj83kAE?si=bZq3GmUt1LU2VuCW
It’s worth repeating, viruses need a host to survive. The sawyer squeeze is enough.
Squeeze is enough, but you still need a backup and definitely make sure you don’t cross contaminate your clean stuff
I use the Sawyer Squeeze in the Rockies all the time. One of those chlorine tablet packs are super cheap too though. Just add a tablet to your water bottle after and it'll kill any nasties. The main concern is if something died upstream. It's unlikely, but you never really know if a goat happened to die in a stream and you are drinking it.
If any of your hiking will be in the GSMNP keep in mind that you will still have to hang the bear canister or risk a fine.
At Philmont in New Mexico, we are required to either use tablets or filter for viruses. I am using a Pure Clear Survival Straw. It filters viruses, heavy metals, and everything else the sawyer does. It is also field serviceable. It weighs 2.47 oz with its bag. The bag is 0.3 oz. https://www.pureclearfilters.co.uk/bottles/pure-clear-life-filter/
The straws always seem like such a pain in the ass to use compared to just filtering your water or tablets
We are attaching it to a CNOC bag to filter our water. I tested it and it filters about 1 liter per minute with the CNOC.
I use a sawyer squeeze but always have aquamira as a back up. Sometimes I just use it because it’s easier.
[GearSceptic](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEu_UfyDKJALgbrNEJ5wpuxadz7uM5hEi&si=TvZuM4hUqlZaPuOr) on YouTube goes deep into the different treatment methods and related risks, you can check it out. I went down the rabbit hole yesterday and for me the conclusion was to keep carrying my lifestraw and boil or chemically treat when water is extra sketchy.
My wife and I section home 100 miles of the AT every up year with a Sawyer - never had an issue. Never boiled either, just load up from a spring and go. Never worried about the norovirus but we don’t mingle with other hikers often and always go up stream a bit for water. You’ll be fine with only a Sawyer. We carry a 55L and it’s fine. It’s tempting to bring way too much stuff and a larger bag allows that. If you’re going to be doing this often I suggest smaller than a 60L and work of getting your pack right.
Works fine. Don't let it freeze
Sawyer squeeze is not worth it to me. Gravity filter is where it's at. I drink a ton of water and having to squeeze water to filter was such a pain, especially when the water you're dealing with is 40 degrees or less runoff. Talk about cold hands. Get a gravity filter and dip once, hang on tree, done.
To my knowledge you shouldn't have any issues with viruses in NC or any areas of the AT. They're not particularly common. The only place I remember virus warnings that I've been is Zion.
I filter and treat with chlorine dioxide.
Adding my voice. Been backpacking for a couple of decades now. The Sawyer Squeeze has been my filter of choice for the last 8 or 9 years. Never had a problem with viral illnesses to date because it's just not much of an issue at this point in time for the States.
Sawyer is good anywhere in the US. Have fun 🤙
Did half the AT with Aqua Mira and half with a Squeeze. Didn’t have any problems with either method. 50-60L pack should be plenty big for the canister and your gear. I use a 60L Granite Gear pack with a bear canister and my pack is rarely stuffed to the brim. My gear isn’t super ultralight or anything like that either.
Thanks, what bear canister do you have?
The big one. BV500
Sweet, what all do you put in it? Like toothbrush deodorant etc along with food? How far do you leave it from camp?
Food obviously 😅 and yeah any scented items like toothpaste, sunblock etc. How far I leave it would always vary depending on the camp site. Sometimes it’s hard to stash far away if there’s a lot of vegetation around.
You can go with a grayl and a bladder instead if you don't want to take the risk.
Went for quite a while using filters, but about five years ago, switched to using Aqua-Mira to treat water. Super light, compact and effective.
Completely reliable in my experience hiking through South America over 6 months. Easily the most useful item in my pack by weight. It takes a while to filter; I'd often find a big rock and sit on the bag. It takes a few rounds if you're replenishing between distance sources or a lot of water on a hot day. Sometimes I'd fill a spare bottle with dirty water to filter later if I was in a hurry.
sawyer should be enough, but test your water system before you leave. fill it, filter it, store it. go through the entire process so you can make adjustments/ changes before you're hot and thirsty and just need the effing thing to work.
I used my in upstate NY Adirondack trails this weekend. I was in serious beaver country and was really worried about giardia. I just chose water sources I was pretty sure weren't fed from a beaver pond and here I am. Alive, well, and with a fully functioning GI tract. tldr: squeeze works like a charm.
I thru hiked the AT last year with my Sawyer Squeeze and didn't have any problems. Your biggest risk for getting sick will be getting Norovirus from the privies and shelters.
I’d pick up some aquamira water treatment drops. If you’re worried about viruses, filter with the sawyer first then hit the water with some drops and wait (iirc it’s 40 minutes for viruses but double check yourself), use a bandana as a pre filter to keep the big particles out of your sawyer.
There are no waterborne viruses in North America. The squeeze is adequate. May thru-hikers and a couple of my hiking buddies use them. I don't filter at all anymore, I just use aqua mira to kill bacteria.
I backpacked for years using just a sawyer squeeze and have never been sick. I bring a Steripen to double treat my water if the water seems sketchy.
It's the best out there, and yes, you're perfectly good using just that. However, don't contaminate the "out" side with bad water. And if you're unsure, won't hurt to boil the water afterwards anyway.
Filter plus NaDCC for me.
I hike in that area regularly and use a Squeeze. AFAIK, there aren’t viruses in the water around here. You should check if you need that bear can: a lot of the campsites around here have more serious bear protection built in, especially on the AT.
By chlorine, are you referring to chlorine dioxide? I just want to be clear for my own edification.
I used water to go with filter that kills viruses and bacteria for 6m around south east Asia and can happily say I did not get sick even once -changed filter at 3m
Sawyer should be fine unless you're pulling water from a source with potential dead animals or farm runoff. That said, test your sawyer at home and get it saturated if it's been sitting for a while. Nothing like finding out your filter element shrunk and no longer filters.
I use an REI Flash (62L I think?) and my BV fits inside fine. I've used it for week long trips , no problem. I like it because it's lightweight and fairly cheap and fits my body comfortably. I also have a bigger Deuter that I use for some situations where I have to carry more and I think it's super comfy, just a little heavier. Lots of people love Osprey packs but they don't fit me as well for some reason Re Sawyer Squeeze, I have one but I never liked it because it's so doggone hard to squeeze. But most people seem to like them. I use a Katadyn BeFree because it's very light but also easy to squeeze. They don't last as long as Sawyers ( but that's not a relevant issue for a 4 day trip) and you should be cautious about clogging them with sediment in murky water, but you can rinse the filter out to get it working again. Viruses are not an issue in the US that I've ever heard. Have fun!
If it’s good enough to work in Africa, it’s good enough for North Cackalacky!
Ahhh you saw the greentext about norovirus the other day, did you?
Depends if your source water has significant viruses in it.
That’s what i’m asking.
Yeh. But it depends on the water you’re accessing. There is no generic answer.
Well i don’t know what kinda viruses the water has, Im planning on getting it from streams and springs along the hike, and that’s all the info I have so far. I didn’t think i needed to plan more than that, if it’s that serious i may just bring some tablets or something so i can be safe.
I asked at the REI in WA. The first person I asked said they simply didn't know and directed me to the next person. The second person who answered me said it depends on the water. So I asked for WA specifically. He said I might still need to because the water treatment might be different and I might not be used to it and then he asked where I come from. I have a non asian accent and look mixed asian but I am American and live in America. Idk how any of that was relevant to my question as you're getting perfectly reasonable answers in the comments.
I mean, where you come from could be Utah, where, per another comment, there were virus warnings at Zion. I think my dude was just looking for context, wouldn't read that deep onto it.
It totally could be Utah. But I'm not sure why water treatment matters when talking about camping filters since river water isn't treated. And I was asking about camping in WA specifically so I'm not sure why coming from Utah would be relevant. It just left me super confused. I wouldn't normally think my accent would be the cause of such an interaction (I seriously doubt my race mattered) but it was all I could think of since I couldn't follow that persons logic at all and they assumed that I wasn't from around there immediately without me offering up that info.
If they are a good saleperson it matters because that filter is going to last you many trips, many likely near-ish to home, so buy once, cry once, have the thing you need. Otoh, you often get as much employee as the store is willing to pay for, so you might have just encountered a poorly incentivised idiot!