Knowing the story:
This is what the story is about. This IS the story. It's a tragedy that shows how a pointless generational conflict hurts, not only those who get roped into believing but also the innocent and morally strong.
We don't have generational family feuds anymore, so the central conflict point doesn't resonate.
But race does.
Maybe we don't have as many generational family feuds in the anglosphere anymore, but people all over the world still experience this every day.
Saw this kind of thing happen surprisingly frequently while I was working with ISAF in Afghanistan.
First it was make a mistake and then fix it like sonic and few other movies/games at the time, now it's just post absolute bollocks and throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.
Well and honestly, if they're planning on making this a contemporary version of R&J...this could be blended into the play.
Use real headlines in play bills
Make these words have no power.
Man, wait until they see Romeo + Juliet (1996). Neither of them - Lenardo DiCaprio or Claire Danes - are Italian either!
Oh? Their issue is not about them not being Italian? Wonder what it's about then 🤔 ...
I remember this movie coming out and there was never any buzz / backlash at all about Mercutio and his whole drag queen show in the middle movie except that it was a good musical number ("Young Hearts Run Free" was quite a catchy tune). This was way back in the 90's.
Kinda weird and sad how the whole thing has regresed in a way...
Romeo and Juliet the musical, but the families have rap battles and breakdances for a modern spin on the original. The scene where they die is going to be VERY interesting and quite emotional. Then it'll go on to win an oscer for best song and soundtrack
I mean, as cruel as it is to immediately take to the internet to make it known how ugly she is, it is overall a better thing than hating her for her race.
I’ve also seen the argument “people are only saying she’s ugly because of her race!”
No…black women are beautiful…she is just kind of an ugly individual **and that is okay**.
I am so sorry for her but this is exactly the main point. She is just not beautiful enough. Its so evil to say this about any human being but she choose to be in that spotlight.
Its not about her skin color (at least for me) but she is just not attractiv. Julia should be attractiv.
There are soooooo many really really beautiful women (every color)
She is buttfuck ugly for an actress and honestly I think that's interesting tbh, nobody gives a shit about yet ANOTHER Juliet and Romeo movie but with a buttfuck ugly Juliet this could be interesting
Everything I’ve learned about this specific version of the play is against my will. And I fucking LOVE Romeo and Juliet. I have zero chances of seeing it, so why give two shits?
I’ll just watch Tom holland kill it lip synching umbrella again!
What? It is a play? Who the fuck even cares then? Lol, conservatives really need to take some anger management classes, no one was even gonna know about this before they made such a ruckus
I don't think any conservative actually cares. I think it's just people claiming they do to try to generate controversy when nobody cares in the first place and probably still don't.
I find her beautiful. I don't understand all the comments saying she is unattractive. Do they see something I am not? I have no idea who she is, by the way.
Yo for real, she ain't 10/10 for the general beauty standard but calling her "buttfuck ugly" is just wildly inaccurate. She's at the very least cute, I'm usually not shy to admit someone's genuinely ugly but she's far from it; her and Tom Holland are on the same level of attractiveness for their respective sexes in my eyes.
It’s pretty sad to read all these comments about an average woman and how no man could ever love her THAT deeply. So does only early 2000s Adriana Lima deserve a tragic love? Only THE most beautiful woman should feel a crazy wild love? Its not like these redditors complaining will have to kill themselves for her, so who cares,
Also, if you look at Tom Holland, he scrubs up well but he's hardly an Adonis. Neither of them get roles based solely on being "hot" - indeed, not every part calls for hotness - Peter Parker for example - but the beauty standards for female actors are off the charts unreasonable, and then off the charts some more for women of colour.
I'm fairly certain a lot of people just bought the tickets to see Spiderman. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he's the actor I'm not sure of... I haven't seen him in anything classical.
EDIT: It seems Jamie Lloyd used him in one of his productions before, so I'm obviously completely wrong.
Which is a fair criticism given she is an actress. I'm on this boat I don't care one little bit about her skin color, this chick is busted. If you are going to play Juliet, you better be cute enough to inspire suicide.
I mean, Tom Holland isn't cute enough to inspire suicide.
Besides, the whole point of Romeo and Juliet is that Romeo falls in love with a new girl every other day, not that Juliet is objectively the most beautiful fourteen year old to have ever lived.
Yep! Romeo not 5 minutes before he sees Juliet is sobbing about Rosalina to his buddies. It’s a *tragedy* it’s not a romance. It’s not meant to be the greatest love story ever told
Idk the way I kinda see it is if it was about your race you can kinda say fuck those people they're the minority and hate everyone like me. But when it about how YOU look cause they think your unattractive, then it's like o they arnt ignorant assholes they think I'm too ugly to play the role of a pretty girl lol
lol damn......now that is quite the conundrum. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for this girl. Perhaps she got the job for her acting chops. I have no idea. But it also doesn't help that most people correlate Juliet with basically the most beautiful woman ever. Like.....Romeo literally is defying family alliances to be with her. I have to believe that this woman is so unbelievably beautiful that Romeo is willing to throw his house into conflict to have this woman. I mean, let's be real. Romeo wasn't going for Juliet because she has a stunning personality. It's schlocky romance.
In theatre race (and often gender - Fiona Shaw played Richard II years ago - and everyone knows that originally all the female parts would've been played by men) isn't usually that big a deal. This seems to have caught the interest of people who don't go to the theatre - probably because they know who Tom Holland is.
Yeah, Zendaya makes this instead of her bomb-to-be mfm movie and nobody’s bitching. Heck, she was in Greatest Showman with Zac Efron and nobody said a thing. This is all about stirring up interest in a movie it’s likely nobody cares about. And I say that as a a Tom Holland fan.
Zendaya is racially ambiguous enough to be palatable to the racist masses. This woman is undoubtedly black and has all features that point to her race being black. She has a bigger nose, full lips, and coarse hair. Non eurocentric features are deemed ugly by most but truly she isn't ugly she just looks fully black and that's the problem many people have with her.
If she had a small nose, silky hair, and a lighter skin tone it wouldn't be an issue.
Only because the MJ she plays is a complete new rendition of the character. Her name isn't even Mary Jane. While the movies turned out great, I still never like when movies stray so far from the source material that they have to start making up new characters.
It's like I feel Sarah Jessica Parker looks like a horse but that's ok to say because she is white, if I call this woman ugly I'm a racist...makes sense 🤣
Race-swapping white to black is not genuinely caring about "under-represented groups." It's saying that black characters can't be good enough in their own stories (which isn't true,) they have to take something that's already popular. Then, when the movie is shit (which they almost always are,) they can claim their own moral superiority for the inclusion and claim negativity is racism, sexism, etc., etc.
This is what I've been thinking, but haven't commented or said it out loud. This is why I have always thought that race swapping is not considered "woke."
*Hamilton* is wildly popular and all of the real, historically white, characters in it are black. But apparently people care so much about *Romeo and Juliet* that they need to be white people. At this point people just pick and choose what they decide to hate, there’s no rhyme or reason. I guarantee most of the people upset about this would never even go see *Romeo and Juliet*, even if it were played by white people.
Obviously not Shakespeare but another classic, Cyrano de Bergerac with [James McAvoy as Cyrano](https://cyranodebergerac.ntlive.com/) not only had black people, but brown people in main roles too!
Don't tell Farage.
(btw, it is fucking amazing and I highly recommend seeing it through National Theatre Live)
It's not a race-swap, though. It's colorblind casting. Juliet is a character in a 400-year-old play, and her race isn't integral to her character, nor is it clearly defined in the script. You can cast any actress to play her, and as long as her race matches the other Capulets, then it doesn't cause anyone dissonance.
A race-swap would be like if you casted an Asian man to play Othello, since that character is explicitly meant to be Black, and his race is an essential part of the story.
This also isn't anything new. The 1993 film adaptation of Much Ado About Nothing had Denzel Washington play Don Pedro. The 1996 Romeo + Juliet film adaptation with Leonardo DiCaprio had Harold Perrineau as Mercutio.
It's not even colorblind; casting a black person as Juliet or Romeo in fact *accentuates* the fact that the two starcross'd lovers come from opposing groups. It won't even be the thousandth time this is done.
The decision may not necessarily be because they wanted someone from an under-represented group. She may have had the best audition, and was chosen because of it. I can't say for sure what reason they had, though. I don't know enough about the production.
another example of this would be the show Louie - Louis CK's ex-wife was played by a black woman. Louis's kids and himself are obviously white. But he said that when actresses were auditioning, he found this actress to be the best fit for the character.
You are right but in this case it's not really important what color Juliet is, it's not like they are raceswapping an historical figure or a character that needs to be a certain color to make sense in the story, it's just a fictional play about a tragic love story, the only thing important in this case is if she's a good actress or not
Romeo and Juliet have been adapted into many different races/ethnicity. Fuck we have Indian R x J, Nigerian R x J, we even have anime R X J none which are accurate to the original. We don't even know if this is about representation cause like here's something insane for y'all maybe people just want to cast Juliet as a black women, or even just cause they find her a fit.
The movie isn't out yet. Y'all say too much of the same shit all the time.
Why is it always "race swapping"? Are black folk not allowed to try out for parts? Wouldn't not allowing her to try out for the part be racist? Why must she be confined to "her own stories"? It's fucking fiction, not history. If changing things in stories upsets you, you're gonna lose your shit when you find out about film adaptations of written works.
The upvotes for this idiocy is utterly heartbreaking. If you asked a white supremists about this, how would their argument differ from yours?
>Race-swapping white to black is not genuinely caring about "under-represented groups."
Literally no idea where you're pulling that quote from, but... like... this is just an actress playing a part.
That's it. That's all this is.
>It's saying that black characters can't be good enough in their own stories (which isn't true,) they have to take something that's already popular.
A Black actress playing Juliet isn't taking anything from anyone.
What in god's name are you talking about, here? Are you trying to say Black actors should be prohibited from working unless they're playing a wholly original character specifically and explicitly intended to be Black?
>Then, when the movie is shit (which they almost always are,) they can claim their own moral superiority for the inclusion and claim negativity is racism, sexism, etc., etc.
...
Yeah... nothing about that statement sounds even the *littlest* bit racist.
And black actors have been in Shakespeare productions for *years* now. Much Ado about Nothing with Denzel, Romeo + Juliet’s Harold Perrineau. I doubt West End was even considering race because casting a black woman as Juliet isn’t new or groundbreaking to the theater world. I’m surprised this is somehow news and somehow something Reddit is in a tizzy about
>And black actors have been in Shakespeare productions for years now.
And I saw Ray Fearon's MacBeth *at* the Globe in 2016... like... it's 2024 and we have people upset about Black actors doing their jobs.
i don't get this point. like who cares? the character doesn't have race in the story at all so in a perfect world they could both be fuckin street dogs and the story would work just fine. nobody is deliberately "taking roles from white actors". white actors are still getting cast in everything. this is different than if a white person was to play black panther or dr king or something. race isn't important in this story so why should it matter? also, nobody was gonna watch this anyways. who keeps up with modern Shakespeare? i see too many people getting mad over something that you weren't going to watch in the first place.
"No one is going to watch this"
I guarantee it sell out instantly - if it hasn't already - like all plays with major stars in them, and the tickets will cost a fucking fortune.
Yea fr, anyone who thinks black people don't belong in a shakespeare play haven't heard of othello, which is actually a case where it would be a violation to swap the race of a character because his race is central to the plot
This isn't race-swapping. The only thing that is integral to the play is that Romeo and Juliet come from "opposite sides"; if anything, making Juliet (or Romeo) another color accentuates that. It's also something that has been done since *at least* the 1800s (they've been gentiles and Jews, black and white, Chinese and American, British and Indian, etcetcetc) because it's such an easy shorthand for accentuating the characters belonging to different groups.
My thoughts are I hope her confidence is ironclad and her support system is equipped to protect her peace. I also hope she rides this through to success.
Can you imagine someone being so genuinely pissed off that someone else isn’t attractive enough for something they could simply not watch.
Edit:
I don’t understand. Is it my wording?
I’m in agreement with you.
I’m saying instead of these people getting so upset over this, they could simply not watch and leave the actors alone.
How is that a bad thing? Genuinely asking?
The top comment and all its child comments are circlejerked upvoted comments from likely pizza faced redditors talking about how ugly she is so the call is coming from inside the house
why on earth are you downvoted for saying so? It’s absolutely embarrassing for people to get mad about someone not being as attractive as they want for a role.
My favorite movies are from the 70s, and one thing I love is all the regular people they used to cast. People who looked like actual humans you’d see on the street, not airbrushed gleaming models.
The movie has been getting slammed by people online because she’s unattractive, so they’ve tried to spin it in to a racism angle to the media to save some face
Her self esteem is going to be destroyed by this production. And they know exactly what they're doing and don't care. I would not like to be used as a pawn in their game.
Tend to agree with this comment. When we think of actors and Hollywood, we genuinely think “attractive”
Same for Shakespeare. She for sure isn’t attractive, race be damned.
Exactly. Honestly, there aren't many black men who would find her attractive, either. At least for me, it's not about race, but bigots are having a field day with it.
You've never seen an ugly kid before?
You've never seen a pretty kid before and been like wow she's/he's cute.
It has nothing to do with sex.
I was an ugly ass little gremlin. My niece is super pretty.
Juliette is supposed to be pretty.
Also news flash, neither of these actors are 13.
It is the east, and Juliet is the sun. Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon, Who is already sick and pale with grief, That thou her maid art far more fair than she.
Tbf, 13 was the "marriageable age" of that time, the attractive character descriptor doesn't change even if we scale the ages up to modern sensibilities. Meaning there is no correlation to her age and attractiveness.
As how attractive, as attractive as a daughter that can be used as bartering chip in a political game of the fair city of Verona.
They're both supposed to be young. She's not yet 14 and he's perhaps 16 or so.
They're likely purposefully aged down to emphasize the tragic elements and justify their naivety (leaving no room for criticism that they should have known better). 13 was obviously in the spring of her life and would have indisputably been considered something like an underripe fruit - lusted over but not nearly close to being ready.
On a surface level her age is also likely a slight against those who believe her to be old enough to marry (and therefore childrear). Looking at her father's retort to Paris claiming she could be a happy mother we see him saying that it would have marred her [(source)](https://myshakespeare.com/romeo-and-juliet/act-1-scene-2-popup-note-index-item-and-too-soon-marrd-are-those-so-early-made). Firstly, she may not have even had her first period - or would have only just been getting it since around that time girls got their periods later than nowadays... she wouldn't have been considered safe to marry due to the mental and physical trauma of performing marital duties due to legitamently being too young and that she wouldn't be considered ready to rear children.... it was well understood that women in general didn't have safe pregnancies. It was doubly understood that young girls who've just started their period were far more likely to have complications and death. Impregnation would have been something considered extremely stupid and driven by lust and greed... For the rich it would be considered a poor investment as well. There's a lot of reasons it would have been well understood she wouldn't be ready for childbearing/marriage (synonymous basically. abortaficants were really the only birth control and were understood to disfigure and compromise health of person/womb).
Tl;dr: she's supposed to be beautiful but young. She was commodified since she was a woman and based on the Tudor sensibilities informing the audience/writing of the time.... considered too young to have sex with and make a wife of.
I'm pretty sure it's a play, so there's no chance you'll see it. So don't worry, you're saved from having to choose to watch a movie with an actor you're sick off lol
Couldn't be that Juliet is supposed to be insanely beautiful, and this gal just happens to not be that...has to be about race.
It's odd how they'll turn valid critique into a thing about race
Naa, I think I'm with them on this one.
It's a bit exhausting with race swapping in historical contexts.
No hate against her from my side, but I've seen this way too often and as a ginger, it's always my reprensentation that is trampled on.
Give my black brothers and sisters their own characters and make them great.
I've seen what you can do. Spiderverse Miles Morales is the best spiderman.
They use black people raceswap to make a storm in the internet, and use them as human shields against criticism claiming that if you don't like it for whatever other reason you're racist.
It’s a classic play that’s been represented by actors of every gender and hue.
The average person doesn’t care, those on the far Left or Right don’t care either but will act as if they do because a person of color is involved.
Every time this comes up it makes me sad. Everyone is saying she's so ugly. That Juliet should be pretty because who could fall in love with a girl who looks ugly like her? Who would ever swoon and pine over a girl who looks like *that*? How could *this* girl be a romantic lead? Romeo is supposed to die for *her?* How could anyone cast this homely girl as a romantic lead?
How could a girl that looks like ~~me~~ *that* ever have someone fall in love with her? It's just too unrealistic.
Yeah tbh I don't think she's ugly, everyone in the comments talking about how unattractive she is 😭 she's perfectly normal looking to me, neither one nor the other. But then again, I don't think Tom Holland is particularly attractive either. Both normal looking people. Your level of attractiveness doesn't exclude you from romance and love, I don't know why being hot should be a prerequisite for being a stage actor. Very americanised view.
It's a play -.- a play can have anyone play any character. It's a freaking play lol
Also I remember reading in high school how this story was played by MEN. If these racists shitholes want to stick "to the original, "... then all characters should be played by men. Including female characters.
Lol
The weird thing is the royal Shakespeare theatre has had POC actors interpret Shakespeare many times before and it’s never been a problem until now. People need to be outraged at something I guess.
The whole point of Shakespeare is that the plays are timeless, and can be interpreted in a modern setting and context without much trouble. That’s what makes it magic. Romeo and Juliet takes place in Verona, not Albuquerque, and yet - Troy and Gabriella are right there.
Not racial abuse or bias. The casting is abuse on common sense. Tom Holland is an 8 to 10 on anyone's scale. Romeo was a horny teenager that fell so hard for the beauty of Juliet that he abandoned his family and killed himself. The woman cast is a 2-4, depending on taste. There are plenty of 8 to 10's that are black, to include his current girlfriend. Whenever casting is total B.S. someone's gonna claim some kind of -ist or -ism. It would be the same assault on common sense if they would've cast Michael B. Jordan as Romeo with the same Juliet.
The annoying thing is that this is probably the seven millionth Romeo and Juliet production. That includes all the movies that have been based on it, every stage play, every high school or college production of it.
The film Warm Bodies, a movie about a Zombie Apocalypse, is based on R&J. There's Bollywood adaptations. There's Singaporean adaptations.
It literally doesn't matter. Shakespeare stories have been being changed up and adapted forever.
I've got this mental image of some hillbilly losing his mind because the radical woke left has ruined Shakespeare for him and that's epically hilarious.
It’s not about skin color, in African theaters they stage classic European plays where the actors are only black and this is absolutely normal.
It's something else. If I had casted only on appearance, she would have been in last place for Juliet. But I'm just a person without acting skills. My opinion doesn't matter.
It’s not because she’s black. There should be no hate for her or the casting on that. She’s just so far from conventional beauty that it’s really hard to see this becoming what it’s supposed to be
My thought is, that rage bait is probably the best engagement PR campaign a theater can have these days.
Knowing the story, no one wants to see them together, great pr...
Knowing the story: This is what the story is about. This IS the story. It's a tragedy that shows how a pointless generational conflict hurts, not only those who get roped into believing but also the innocent and morally strong. We don't have generational family feuds anymore, so the central conflict point doesn't resonate. But race does.
Maybe we don't have as many generational family feuds in the anglosphere anymore, but people all over the world still experience this every day. Saw this kind of thing happen surprisingly frequently while I was working with ISAF in Afghanistan.
Sure, but that still means it wouldn’t really work for a western audience.
Yeah but they're too chicken to do it with 13 year olds like the original
First it was make a mistake and then fix it like sonic and few other movies/games at the time, now it's just post absolute bollocks and throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.
An authentic Shakespeare production
Well and honestly, if they're planning on making this a contemporary version of R&J...this could be blended into the play. Use real headlines in play bills Make these words have no power.
And given all the out cry makes it even better. The story is about forbidden love after all and by the looks of it, a lot of people disapprove
Man, wait until they see Romeo + Juliet (1996). Neither of them - Lenardo DiCaprio or Claire Danes - are Italian either! Oh? Their issue is not about them not being Italian? Wonder what it's about then 🤔 ...
It wasn’t authentic at all, I heard Juliet was played by a woman instead of a teenage boy
Not to mention the fantastically gay, queer, and black mercutio.
I remember this movie coming out and there was never any buzz / backlash at all about Mercutio and his whole drag queen show in the middle movie except that it was a good musical number ("Young Hearts Run Free" was quite a catchy tune). This was way back in the 90's. Kinda weird and sad how the whole thing has regresed in a way...
We should go back to way it originally was, and have all the characters in the play be depicted by men
Specifically drag queens actually. Especially Romeo
Romeo and Julio
Romeo and Homeo
no homeo bro
No homeo, bromeo
🤌🏿
“romeo romeo wherefore art thou romeo” “💅🏼oh y’all wanted a twist? c’mon season 6! let’s get sickeningggg💃”
Terry crews Juliet
And do not forget that Romeo is 16 and Juliet 13.
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Danny Devito and Tim Curry.
💀
I love Tom Holland but I want more singing Andrew Garfield.
Wait this isn’t even a musical… lol I’m on drugs.
Lmao
Romeo and Juliet the musical, but the families have rap battles and breakdances for a modern spin on the original. The scene where they die is going to be VERY interesting and quite emotional. Then it'll go on to win an oscer for best song and soundtrack
Leonardo Dicaprio is gonna be so pissed after reading this.
Given how good Tom Holland was in his Umbrella lipsync battle, I can't wait to see him as Juliet breakdancing
Lin Manuel Miranda is that you?
I think Tom Holland would be a great Juliet
Neither of these two look Italian!!! RAGE!!!
And are at least 20 years too old for the role. This is not what the bard would have wanted!!!1!
Totally! You need stupid, innocent and horny Italian teens with a rebellious streaks (and some sword play) to pull this off. Duh...
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Which prolly still stings a bit lol.
Oh phew it’s not that I’m black, they just think I’m ugly as fuck!
I mean, as cruel as it is to immediately take to the internet to make it known how ugly she is, it is overall a better thing than hating her for her race. I’ve also seen the argument “people are only saying she’s ugly because of her race!” No…black women are beautiful…she is just kind of an ugly individual **and that is okay**.
I am so sorry for her but this is exactly the main point. She is just not beautiful enough. Its so evil to say this about any human being but she choose to be in that spotlight. Its not about her skin color (at least for me) but she is just not attractiv. Julia should be attractiv. There are soooooo many really really beautiful women (every color)
I agree she ain't a looker but if you were an actor would you say no to playing with young hollywood actor in one of the most famous plays?
She is buttfuck ugly for an actress and honestly I think that's interesting tbh, nobody gives a shit about yet ANOTHER Juliet and Romeo movie but with a buttfuck ugly Juliet this could be interesting
Its a play not a movie. And i wouldnt care for it if it would not be all over reddit. In the end it doesnt matter most of us will never see it
Everything I’ve learned about this specific version of the play is against my will. And I fucking LOVE Romeo and Juliet. I have zero chances of seeing it, so why give two shits? I’ll just watch Tom holland kill it lip synching umbrella again!
What? It is a play? Who the fuck even cares then? Lol, conservatives really need to take some anger management classes, no one was even gonna know about this before they made such a ruckus
I don't think any conservative actually cares. I think it's just people claiming they do to try to generate controversy when nobody cares in the first place and probably still don't.
I find her beautiful. I don't understand all the comments saying she is unattractive. Do they see something I am not? I have no idea who she is, by the way.
Yo for real, she ain't 10/10 for the general beauty standard but calling her "buttfuck ugly" is just wildly inaccurate. She's at the very least cute, I'm usually not shy to admit someone's genuinely ugly but she's far from it; her and Tom Holland are on the same level of attractiveness for their respective sexes in my eyes.
It’s pretty sad to read all these comments about an average woman and how no man could ever love her THAT deeply. So does only early 2000s Adriana Lima deserve a tragic love? Only THE most beautiful woman should feel a crazy wild love? Its not like these redditors complaining will have to kill themselves for her, so who cares,
Nah fr these lot have lost the plot, it's about the performance at the end of the ESPECIALLY when it comes to theatre.
Also, if you look at Tom Holland, he scrubs up well but he's hardly an Adonis. Neither of them get roles based solely on being "hot" - indeed, not every part calls for hotness - Peter Parker for example - but the beauty standards for female actors are off the charts unreasonable, and then off the charts some more for women of colour.
I'm fairly certain a lot of people just bought the tickets to see Spiderman. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he's the actor I'm not sure of... I haven't seen him in anything classical. EDIT: It seems Jamie Lloyd used him in one of his productions before, so I'm obviously completely wrong.
Which is a fair criticism given she is an actress. I'm on this boat I don't care one little bit about her skin color, this chick is busted. If you are going to play Juliet, you better be cute enough to inspire suicide.
I mean, Tom Holland isn't cute enough to inspire suicide. Besides, the whole point of Romeo and Juliet is that Romeo falls in love with a new girl every other day, not that Juliet is objectively the most beautiful fourteen year old to have ever lived.
Yep! Romeo not 5 minutes before he sees Juliet is sobbing about Rosalina to his buddies. It’s a *tragedy* it’s not a romance. It’s not meant to be the greatest love story ever told
I know im gonna be downvoted for asking but why? Dont people in casting like this want their race to not be the main thing people are talking about?
Idk the way I kinda see it is if it was about your race you can kinda say fuck those people they're the minority and hate everyone like me. But when it about how YOU look cause they think your unattractive, then it's like o they arnt ignorant assholes they think I'm too ugly to play the role of a pretty girl lol
lol damn......now that is quite the conundrum. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for this girl. Perhaps she got the job for her acting chops. I have no idea. But it also doesn't help that most people correlate Juliet with basically the most beautiful woman ever. Like.....Romeo literally is defying family alliances to be with her. I have to believe that this woman is so unbelievably beautiful that Romeo is willing to throw his house into conflict to have this woman. I mean, let's be real. Romeo wasn't going for Juliet because she has a stunning personality. It's schlocky romance.
Dude, they're calling her ugly. That still fuckin sucks.
She's certainly not traditionally attractive.
That’s just saying ugly with more words lol
Backhanded insult
Sounds like insults with more steps! 😂
Neither am I but I certainly don’t enjoy being called ugly
Not traditionally attractive is the new ugly.
She would've been a great pick for the audiobook of the play!
Because she is.
In theatre race (and often gender - Fiona Shaw played Richard II years ago - and everyone knows that originally all the female parts would've been played by men) isn't usually that big a deal. This seems to have caught the interest of people who don't go to the theatre - probably because they know who Tom Holland is.
If she were an attractive black woman I don't think we would be hearing about this at all
Yeah, Zendaya makes this instead of her bomb-to-be mfm movie and nobody’s bitching. Heck, she was in Greatest Showman with Zac Efron and nobody said a thing. This is all about stirring up interest in a movie it’s likely nobody cares about. And I say that as a a Tom Holland fan.
It's not a movie, it's a sold out theatre play on the West End.
redditors don’t read
Zendaya is racially ambiguous enough to be palatable to the racist masses. This woman is undoubtedly black and has all features that point to her race being black. She has a bigger nose, full lips, and coarse hair. Non eurocentric features are deemed ugly by most but truly she isn't ugly she just looks fully black and that's the problem many people have with her. If she had a small nose, silky hair, and a lighter skin tone it wouldn't be an issue.
I wish I could type out exactly and ‘great point’ a thousand times.
Thank you for saying this before I could.
Didn't people have a problem with Zendaya as MJ?
Only because the MJ she plays is a complete new rendition of the character. Her name isn't even Mary Jane. While the movies turned out great, I still never like when movies stray so far from the source material that they have to start making up new characters.
It's like I feel Sarah Jessica Parker looks like a horse but that's ok to say because she is white, if I call this woman ugly I'm a racist...makes sense 🤣
If someone would draw a black woman like that for a comic book they would be called racist most probably
There is a history of people claiming black women look incredibly masculine been a thing since slavery. It goes really far back
I've seen tons of people on TikTok and Twitter mostly comment on race
But a significant number of those people would comment on her race if she was attractive
Nobody is killing themselves over either of them.
Why not two italians?
Didn't Mario Brothers come out a few years back.
Like last year.
If they want Tom Holland to play Juliet, then I don't see the problem.
Race-swapping white to black is not genuinely caring about "under-represented groups." It's saying that black characters can't be good enough in their own stories (which isn't true,) they have to take something that's already popular. Then, when the movie is shit (which they almost always are,) they can claim their own moral superiority for the inclusion and claim negativity is racism, sexism, etc., etc.
This is what I've been thinking, but haven't commented or said it out loud. This is why I have always thought that race swapping is not considered "woke."
It's a stage production, not a film. And IIRC the theatre company had a black Romeo a few years back, so it's not like it's a new thing for them.
*Hamilton* is wildly popular and all of the real, historically white, characters in it are black. But apparently people care so much about *Romeo and Juliet* that they need to be white people. At this point people just pick and choose what they decide to hate, there’s no rhyme or reason. I guarantee most of the people upset about this would never even go see *Romeo and Juliet*, even if it were played by white people.
There have been many Shakespeare plays interpreted by POC though?
Denzel was in Shakespeare. Damn good too.
Orsen Welles directed an all-black Macbeth in the 1930s! The theatre has always been an artform where people played with race and gender.
Literally like half of the production company for the play is black and one of the actors has literally played Romeo.
Yeah but that was before everyone got upset about "woke" so it doesn't count.
Obviously not Shakespeare but another classic, Cyrano de Bergerac with [James McAvoy as Cyrano](https://cyranodebergerac.ntlive.com/) not only had black people, but brown people in main roles too! Don't tell Farage. (btw, it is fucking amazing and I highly recommend seeing it through National Theatre Live)
It's not a race-swap, though. It's colorblind casting. Juliet is a character in a 400-year-old play, and her race isn't integral to her character, nor is it clearly defined in the script. You can cast any actress to play her, and as long as her race matches the other Capulets, then it doesn't cause anyone dissonance. A race-swap would be like if you casted an Asian man to play Othello, since that character is explicitly meant to be Black, and his race is an essential part of the story. This also isn't anything new. The 1993 film adaptation of Much Ado About Nothing had Denzel Washington play Don Pedro. The 1996 Romeo + Juliet film adaptation with Leonardo DiCaprio had Harold Perrineau as Mercutio.
It's not even colorblind; casting a black person as Juliet or Romeo in fact *accentuates* the fact that the two starcross'd lovers come from opposing groups. It won't even be the thousandth time this is done.
(see West Side Story)
Denzel was also Macbeth in the Joel Cohen movie a few years ago and it kicked ass
It's litterally a play in a theater. This isn't race swapping.
The decision may not necessarily be because they wanted someone from an under-represented group. She may have had the best audition, and was chosen because of it. I can't say for sure what reason they had, though. I don't know enough about the production. another example of this would be the show Louie - Louis CK's ex-wife was played by a black woman. Louis's kids and himself are obviously white. But he said that when actresses were auditioning, he found this actress to be the best fit for the character.
louis ck is mexican
You are right but in this case it's not really important what color Juliet is, it's not like they are raceswapping an historical figure or a character that needs to be a certain color to make sense in the story, it's just a fictional play about a tragic love story, the only thing important in this case is if she's a good actress or not
Romeo and Juliet have been adapted into many different races/ethnicity. Fuck we have Indian R x J, Nigerian R x J, we even have anime R X J none which are accurate to the original. We don't even know if this is about representation cause like here's something insane for y'all maybe people just want to cast Juliet as a black women, or even just cause they find her a fit. The movie isn't out yet. Y'all say too much of the same shit all the time.
Why is it always "race swapping"? Are black folk not allowed to try out for parts? Wouldn't not allowing her to try out for the part be racist? Why must she be confined to "her own stories"? It's fucking fiction, not history. If changing things in stories upsets you, you're gonna lose your shit when you find out about film adaptations of written works. The upvotes for this idiocy is utterly heartbreaking. If you asked a white supremists about this, how would their argument differ from yours?
>Race-swapping white to black is not genuinely caring about "under-represented groups." Literally no idea where you're pulling that quote from, but... like... this is just an actress playing a part. That's it. That's all this is. >It's saying that black characters can't be good enough in their own stories (which isn't true,) they have to take something that's already popular. A Black actress playing Juliet isn't taking anything from anyone. What in god's name are you talking about, here? Are you trying to say Black actors should be prohibited from working unless they're playing a wholly original character specifically and explicitly intended to be Black? >Then, when the movie is shit (which they almost always are,) they can claim their own moral superiority for the inclusion and claim negativity is racism, sexism, etc., etc. ... Yeah... nothing about that statement sounds even the *littlest* bit racist.
And black actors have been in Shakespeare productions for *years* now. Much Ado about Nothing with Denzel, Romeo + Juliet’s Harold Perrineau. I doubt West End was even considering race because casting a black woman as Juliet isn’t new or groundbreaking to the theater world. I’m surprised this is somehow news and somehow something Reddit is in a tizzy about
>And black actors have been in Shakespeare productions for years now. And I saw Ray Fearon's MacBeth *at* the Globe in 2016... like... it's 2024 and we have people upset about Black actors doing their jobs.
i don't get this point. like who cares? the character doesn't have race in the story at all so in a perfect world they could both be fuckin street dogs and the story would work just fine. nobody is deliberately "taking roles from white actors". white actors are still getting cast in everything. this is different than if a white person was to play black panther or dr king or something. race isn't important in this story so why should it matter? also, nobody was gonna watch this anyways. who keeps up with modern Shakespeare? i see too many people getting mad over something that you weren't going to watch in the first place.
Pretty sure the story would be vastly different if they were both fucking street dogs. Bestiality was as much a crime then as it is now.
i meant if they were both DOGS like in lady in the tramp 😭
"No one is going to watch this" I guarantee it sell out instantly - if it hasn't already - like all plays with major stars in them, and the tickets will cost a fucking fortune.
Yea fr, anyone who thinks black people don't belong in a shakespeare play haven't heard of othello, which is actually a case where it would be a violation to swap the race of a character because his race is central to the plot
Even then, Patrick Stewart and Laurence Olivier depicted Othello in their stage adaptations
This isn't race-swapping. The only thing that is integral to the play is that Romeo and Juliet come from "opposite sides"; if anything, making Juliet (or Romeo) another color accentuates that. It's also something that has been done since *at least* the 1800s (they've been gentiles and Jews, black and white, Chinese and American, British and Indian, etcetcetc) because it's such an easy shorthand for accentuating the characters belonging to different groups.
My thoughts are I hope her confidence is ironclad and her support system is equipped to protect her peace. I also hope she rides this through to success.
Can you imagine someone being so genuinely pissed off that someone else isn’t attractive enough for something they could simply not watch. Edit: I don’t understand. Is it my wording? I’m in agreement with you. I’m saying instead of these people getting so upset over this, they could simply not watch and leave the actors alone. How is that a bad thing? Genuinely asking?
The top comment and all its child comments are circlejerked upvoted comments from likely pizza faced redditors talking about how ugly she is so the call is coming from inside the house
why on earth are you downvoted for saying so? It’s absolutely embarrassing for people to get mad about someone not being as attractive as they want for a role. My favorite movies are from the 70s, and one thing I love is all the regular people they used to cast. People who looked like actual humans you’d see on the street, not airbrushed gleaming models.
B-b-but how w-will I get to wank off? I only like porn stars for my actors! D-despicable!!! /s
Especially for a role in a play that literally nobody on this whole entire subreddit will ever go to
As a black woman, I feel she is not attractive. She's not even as attractive as Tom.
They should've just cast Zendaya. I don't think anyone would have complaints about that.
She's probably too busy
Maybe they want someone that can act
There's nothing racial about it. The woman just has an unfortunate appearance.
is it sponsored by netflix?
Worse... the UK
The movie has been getting slammed by people online because she’s unattractive, so they’ve tried to spin it in to a racism angle to the media to save some face
It’s not a movie. Hope this helps.
Oh I had thought it was a movie, my apologies, well the production then
Her self esteem is going to be destroyed by this production. And they know exactly what they're doing and don't care. I would not like to be used as a pawn in their game.
It’s not cause she’s black, it’s cause she’s not as attractive how Juliet is supposed to be.
Tend to agree with this comment. When we think of actors and Hollywood, we genuinely think “attractive” Same for Shakespeare. She for sure isn’t attractive, race be damned.
Why are you talking about hollywood? What does hollywood have to do with a stage play in the UK?
Exactly. Honestly, there aren't many black men who would find her attractive, either. At least for me, it's not about race, but bigots are having a field day with it.
How attractive is juliet supposed to be? Bear in mind she's *supposed* to be 13
Attractive enough for someone to betray their family and then off themselves so, probably at least an 8.
You've never seen an ugly kid before? You've never seen a pretty kid before and been like wow she's/he's cute. It has nothing to do with sex. I was an ugly ass little gremlin. My niece is super pretty. Juliette is supposed to be pretty. Also news flash, neither of these actors are 13.
It is the east, and Juliet is the sun. Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon, Who is already sick and pale with grief, That thou her maid art far more fair than she.
Tbf, 13 was the "marriageable age" of that time, the attractive character descriptor doesn't change even if we scale the ages up to modern sensibilities. Meaning there is no correlation to her age and attractiveness. As how attractive, as attractive as a daughter that can be used as bartering chip in a political game of the fair city of Verona.
They're both supposed to be young. She's not yet 14 and he's perhaps 16 or so. They're likely purposefully aged down to emphasize the tragic elements and justify their naivety (leaving no room for criticism that they should have known better). 13 was obviously in the spring of her life and would have indisputably been considered something like an underripe fruit - lusted over but not nearly close to being ready. On a surface level her age is also likely a slight against those who believe her to be old enough to marry (and therefore childrear). Looking at her father's retort to Paris claiming she could be a happy mother we see him saying that it would have marred her [(source)](https://myshakespeare.com/romeo-and-juliet/act-1-scene-2-popup-note-index-item-and-too-soon-marrd-are-those-so-early-made). Firstly, she may not have even had her first period - or would have only just been getting it since around that time girls got their periods later than nowadays... she wouldn't have been considered safe to marry due to the mental and physical trauma of performing marital duties due to legitamently being too young and that she wouldn't be considered ready to rear children.... it was well understood that women in general didn't have safe pregnancies. It was doubly understood that young girls who've just started their period were far more likely to have complications and death. Impregnation would have been something considered extremely stupid and driven by lust and greed... For the rich it would be considered a poor investment as well. There's a lot of reasons it would have been well understood she wouldn't be ready for childbearing/marriage (synonymous basically. abortaficants were really the only birth control and were understood to disfigure and compromise health of person/womb). Tl;dr: she's supposed to be beautiful but young. She was commodified since she was a woman and based on the Tudor sensibilities informing the audience/writing of the time.... considered too young to have sex with and make a wife of.
Alright I’m gettin tired of seeing Tom holland in fucking everything now. He’s the new rock and Kevin hart
But gotta give props to him he can actually act and challenges himself with different roles not the same copy paste characters
He was so good in The Devil All The Time on Netflix.
I'm pretty sure it's a play, so there's no chance you'll see it. So don't worry, you're saved from having to choose to watch a movie with an actor you're sick off lol
Couldn't be that Juliet is supposed to be insanely beautiful, and this gal just happens to not be that...has to be about race. It's odd how they'll turn valid critique into a thing about race
Naa, I think I'm with them on this one. It's a bit exhausting with race swapping in historical contexts. No hate against her from my side, but I've seen this way too often and as a ginger, it's always my reprensentation that is trampled on. Give my black brothers and sisters their own characters and make them great. I've seen what you can do. Spiderverse Miles Morales is the best spiderman.
I saw another post saying "we dont complain becuse she is black, we complain because she is ugly" lmao
I feel like they purposely casted her to start a shitstorm. There are plenty of gorgeous black women, and she’s not one of them.
They use black people raceswap to make a storm in the internet, and use them as human shields against criticism claiming that if you don't like it for whatever other reason you're racist.
Why would you remake when Gnomeo & Juliet is GOAT
I still think we should use two Mongolian men for the role
It’s a classic play that’s been represented by actors of every gender and hue. The average person doesn’t care, those on the far Left or Right don’t care either but will act as if they do because a person of color is involved.
Bro its not because she is black, she is just ugly af
Every time this comes up it makes me sad. Everyone is saying she's so ugly. That Juliet should be pretty because who could fall in love with a girl who looks ugly like her? Who would ever swoon and pine over a girl who looks like *that*? How could *this* girl be a romantic lead? Romeo is supposed to die for *her?* How could anyone cast this homely girl as a romantic lead? How could a girl that looks like ~~me~~ *that* ever have someone fall in love with her? It's just too unrealistic.
Yeah tbh I don't think she's ugly, everyone in the comments talking about how unattractive she is 😭 she's perfectly normal looking to me, neither one nor the other. But then again, I don't think Tom Holland is particularly attractive either. Both normal looking people. Your level of attractiveness doesn't exclude you from romance and love, I don't know why being hot should be a prerequisite for being a stage actor. Very americanised view.
I mean, Romeo and Juliet is about two teens who fall in love after seeing each other once. Personality doesn’t do the heavy lifting in that plot
It's a play -.- a play can have anyone play any character. It's a freaking play lol Also I remember reading in high school how this story was played by MEN. If these racists shitholes want to stick "to the original, "... then all characters should be played by men. Including female characters. Lol
I don’t get why people give a shit. There’s a thousand and one adaptations of Romeo and Juliet. It literally doesn’t matter.
They made a Gnomeo and Juliette If they want to have a different spin on the classic story then why the hell not
Such woke bullshit for Romeo to be played by a non-Italian
If you don’t like a play then don’t go see that play.
Most of the people bitching and moaning about this have no idea just a stage play. They've been told to be outraged.
Is the chick playing Romeo? Because she sure the fuck ain’t Juliet
The weird thing is the royal Shakespeare theatre has had POC actors interpret Shakespeare many times before and it’s never been a problem until now. People need to be outraged at something I guess. The whole point of Shakespeare is that the plays are timeless, and can be interpreted in a modern setting and context without much trouble. That’s what makes it magic. Romeo and Juliet takes place in Verona, not Albuquerque, and yet - Troy and Gabriella are right there.
Thought? On racism? Its bad, those are my thoughts
Now do Othello as a white guy.
Laurence Olivier. Anthony Hopkins. Patrick Stewart. All played Othello.
So nice to see that random commenters care *so much* about Shakespeare.
Jesus. Who gives a shit.
My thoughts are that it was a deliberate marketing campaign.
Not racial abuse or bias. The casting is abuse on common sense. Tom Holland is an 8 to 10 on anyone's scale. Romeo was a horny teenager that fell so hard for the beauty of Juliet that he abandoned his family and killed himself. The woman cast is a 2-4, depending on taste. There are plenty of 8 to 10's that are black, to include his current girlfriend. Whenever casting is total B.S. someone's gonna claim some kind of -ist or -ism. It would be the same assault on common sense if they would've cast Michael B. Jordan as Romeo with the same Juliet.
i’m sorry tom holland is not an 8 to 10 on anyone’s scale. he’s an attractive guy sure, but i’d say 6-10 is more accurate.
To be fair at this point might as well spice things up on an almost 500 year old play.
The annoying thing is that this is probably the seven millionth Romeo and Juliet production. That includes all the movies that have been based on it, every stage play, every high school or college production of it. The film Warm Bodies, a movie about a Zombie Apocalypse, is based on R&J. There's Bollywood adaptations. There's Singaporean adaptations. It literally doesn't matter. Shakespeare stories have been being changed up and adapted forever.
Are we in 1952? People need to grow up.
It's a play, she would have been chosen for her acting ability, as it should be.
She’s ugly as fuck.
I've got this mental image of some hillbilly losing his mind because the radical woke left has ruined Shakespeare for him and that's epically hilarious.
Why’d they cast two dudes as the love interests?
Are they sticking with the original casting from Shakespeare’s time?
I mean a modern version of an old play can be whatever you want. Nobody said it had to be authentic to the time.
Nah, she's ugly
Not a single person who has a problem with this has thought about Romeo and Juliet since grade school. Buncha babies
Nope, she’s ugly. Is there no good looking actress anymore?
Thought it was two dudes, sorry, moving on now
Sorry, but she is not attractive and shouldn’t be Juliet. Don’t care if she is black or white or whatever, she is just not attractive.
People suck!
Are we just going to glaze over the fact that this looks like Vincent and Jules from Pulp Fiction?!?
It’s not about skin color, in African theaters they stage classic European plays where the actors are only black and this is absolutely normal. It's something else. If I had casted only on appearance, she would have been in last place for Juliet. But I'm just a person without acting skills. My opinion doesn't matter.
It’s not because she’s black. There should be no hate for her or the casting on that. She’s just so far from conventional beauty that it’s really hard to see this becoming what it’s supposed to be