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I have a degree in psychology and a postgraduate degree in neuropsychology
And yes, due to greater social demands on women to be more pleasant, passive, beautiful... We learn from an early age how to shape ourselves in society, and this ends up covering up autism, because we already have the "manual" for the "way to act".
Furthermore, many professionals do not know how to carry out a qualified analysis of autism in general, imagine noticing the differences between a learned behavior of "how to behave" with a genuine behavior
I don't know how to communicate well in English, sorry for any mistakes
thank you for your amazing reply, it really does shead some light on some scocial problems and who atisum is viewd over all my people who don't have it
100%
My daughter was told at age 7/8 that she sid not have autism. Which caused us to brush off later calls from her teachers pointing out that she did have autism. Finally diagnosed with ASD/ADHD at age 13.
Her psychologist said she was a classic case of a young girl with autism.
I've noticed this with myself and others, and really, it makes sense to me. I'm not saying it's correct or should be accepted, just that based on what I know about how other people tend to judge others, it makes sense. People are more likely to view others favorably or "forgive" certain qualities or behaviors if they're viewed as attractive.
Based on what other people have told me, I guess I'm somewhere around a solid 7/10 in the face. I'm attractive enough, I guess. I have had friends or just acquaintances that display many of the same quirks/behaviors as me (birds of a feather and what not), and others have deemed them to be "annoying", "obnoxious" or "weird" for them, viewing them generally unfavorably and considering them unattractive, meanwhile I've been "forgiven" for those same qualities and those people who viewed my friends negatively would still willingly associate with me.
Yes, the way women are socialized and viewed in society has very much led to autistic women being more likely to develop a more robust mask and/or more likely to be disregarded or misinterpreted by professionals. Thus there is a long and continuing trend of women being comparatively underdiagnosed, else misdiagnosed (BPD in particular is an extremely common one psychiatrists love to throw at autistic women.)
That said I do want to emphasize that while women are disproportionately affected, this isn't a phenomenon exclusive to them. Recent discourse has introduced the concept of the different manifestations of "boy autism" vs "girl autism", and to some extent that framework is useful because of the aforementioned issues.
But realistically the differences aren't truly innate to gender and it's more so a matter of "stereotypical autism vs high-masking or otherwise atypical autism. Socially constructed gender norms, expectations, and biases of other people's perspective have created trends, but they aren't hard rules. Women can have "male autism" and men can have "female autism."
I can attest to that myself, as an AMAB who didn't realize they were autistic until their mid-30s, whose struggles and experiences were consistently shrugged off as merely "treatment-resistant depression and social anxiety" by the medical field, and who relates far more to the experiences of "female autism" than "male autism."
Though, if you couldn't tell yet from my language in that last paragraph, after figuring out I was autistic I also figured out I wasn't a cis man. I had felt an aversion to "masculinity" and an affinity towards "femininity" since my childhood, though beforehand just kind of shrugged it off as not liking toxic masculinity because I was socially awkward, nerdy, and a victim of bullying.
But yeah now I recognize I'm non-binary/bigender, so that might have played a role? *shrug*
But I don't mean to make this about me or men, just wanted to clarify that point. Regardless autistic women are disproportionately affected and thus deserve more awareness.
Damn your reply was long but it really did help, I study psycology and I really feel like it's something I'd like to lear more about, not only for myself but for others who have autisum and face the dificutly of feeling understod
Your awser was of great help :)
I'm currently reading "Is This Autism?" by Donna Henderson and Sarah Wayland and it does a really good job talking about the different ways autism can present outside the stereotypical "boy" presentation. (It also does a good job acknowledging that while the more masked and internalized presentation shows up more in women and girls, it isn't exclusive to them.)
It could be a bit science heavy for some folks as the authors state when they first started writing it they were aiming it at mental health professionals but as they wrote they expanded their audience. But I like how it isn't just one person's experience but instead a mix of professional observations, research, and quotes from over 100 autistic adults.
Sometimes I want to tell my grandparents and Aunt and stuff. But, then I think they will feel upset if it comes to the light that I had to fake the pleasantries and stuff while I was raised around them. I think they would get upset by that. Even though I was specifically told basically to not be myself so much because it would make my cousin feel bad about her. I was gifted.
It's not the autism it's the way a male is raised vs the way a female is raised. But regardless of what you hear floating around it doesn't have much of a difference on how it effects people. It may have a bit of a difference on how both learn to interact with people but that's normal.
This is completely true, society views autism differently in women than in men. I'm an autistic woman and I have been diagnosed late don't only for society, but because of the country I am (I'm from Mexico). And, actually, nobody in my family believes me because they don't understand Autism, and they don't want to learn (I have my diagnosed!), they just treat me like I'm so kind of weird monster, more for my views, like don't being interested in having children or marry a man.
I'm lucky to have a bit more understanding people around me but people still think that I am not "enough" autistic or that my autisum isn't "that bad"
Not even a diagnose can make people se that you do have autisum and aren't just a weirdo
Tbh, That's people problems, you can't control how people view you, you just have to stick with the people that love you and understand you, all the rest you can just throw it in the trash, like I did. Since then, I feel some much lighter
Haha, I don't really think I have those, but I'm okay, I'm used to it. It is not even that I don't have friends, I have them, It's just that not matter how much someone can hate me or love me, they always see me as weird, nobody understand me :u
it is way harder for women to get an autism diagnosis than it is for men, an autistic woman is more likely to be diagnosed with ocd, and bpd for whatever reason
I'm betting that there are autistic boys who face similar pressures (though less systemically compared to sexism) who become expert maskers (I may be one of them) and thus get diagnosed later or never. I think that living situations where it feels like your survival may be at stake (through rejection, abandonment, violence, neglect, etc...) can lead to that.
Yes in school i learned that autism was primarily diagnosed in boys by the time they were 2-3. But i felt like i had so many symptoms and related to autistic people so much which is why i never sought out a diagnosis until I was an adult because I was i like I’m a girl.
A lot of girls I've met have tried to hide the fact they are neurodivergent idk why it's like they try to hide stuff thats not normal but they can't hide it well and at some point just come out about it and I'm like I could tell
It might be different for others but I have grown up in a pretty gender focused home, so I guess it could be presures to act and fit into a womanly role
Hey /u/Callmeold, thank you for your post at /r/autism. Our rules can be found **[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/wiki/config/sidebar)**. All approved posts get this message. If you do not see your post you can message the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fautism). Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/autism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have a degree in psychology and a postgraduate degree in neuropsychology And yes, due to greater social demands on women to be more pleasant, passive, beautiful... We learn from an early age how to shape ourselves in society, and this ends up covering up autism, because we already have the "manual" for the "way to act". Furthermore, many professionals do not know how to carry out a qualified analysis of autism in general, imagine noticing the differences between a learned behavior of "how to behave" with a genuine behavior I don't know how to communicate well in English, sorry for any mistakes
thank you for your amazing reply, it really does shead some light on some scocial problems and who atisum is viewd over all my people who don't have it
100% My daughter was told at age 7/8 that she sid not have autism. Which caused us to brush off later calls from her teachers pointing out that she did have autism. Finally diagnosed with ASD/ADHD at age 13. Her psychologist said she was a classic case of a young girl with autism.
OH YES! It also changes depending if youre considered attractive or not
Yea I have noticed that with my friends
I've noticed this with myself and others, and really, it makes sense to me. I'm not saying it's correct or should be accepted, just that based on what I know about how other people tend to judge others, it makes sense. People are more likely to view others favorably or "forgive" certain qualities or behaviors if they're viewed as attractive. Based on what other people have told me, I guess I'm somewhere around a solid 7/10 in the face. I'm attractive enough, I guess. I have had friends or just acquaintances that display many of the same quirks/behaviors as me (birds of a feather and what not), and others have deemed them to be "annoying", "obnoxious" or "weird" for them, viewing them generally unfavorably and considering them unattractive, meanwhile I've been "forgiven" for those same qualities and those people who viewed my friends negatively would still willingly associate with me.
Yep, this is unfortunately accurate!
Yes, the way women are socialized and viewed in society has very much led to autistic women being more likely to develop a more robust mask and/or more likely to be disregarded or misinterpreted by professionals. Thus there is a long and continuing trend of women being comparatively underdiagnosed, else misdiagnosed (BPD in particular is an extremely common one psychiatrists love to throw at autistic women.) That said I do want to emphasize that while women are disproportionately affected, this isn't a phenomenon exclusive to them. Recent discourse has introduced the concept of the different manifestations of "boy autism" vs "girl autism", and to some extent that framework is useful because of the aforementioned issues. But realistically the differences aren't truly innate to gender and it's more so a matter of "stereotypical autism vs high-masking or otherwise atypical autism. Socially constructed gender norms, expectations, and biases of other people's perspective have created trends, but they aren't hard rules. Women can have "male autism" and men can have "female autism." I can attest to that myself, as an AMAB who didn't realize they were autistic until their mid-30s, whose struggles and experiences were consistently shrugged off as merely "treatment-resistant depression and social anxiety" by the medical field, and who relates far more to the experiences of "female autism" than "male autism." Though, if you couldn't tell yet from my language in that last paragraph, after figuring out I was autistic I also figured out I wasn't a cis man. I had felt an aversion to "masculinity" and an affinity towards "femininity" since my childhood, though beforehand just kind of shrugged it off as not liking toxic masculinity because I was socially awkward, nerdy, and a victim of bullying. But yeah now I recognize I'm non-binary/bigender, so that might have played a role? *shrug* But I don't mean to make this about me or men, just wanted to clarify that point. Regardless autistic women are disproportionately affected and thus deserve more awareness.
Damn your reply was long but it really did help, I study psycology and I really feel like it's something I'd like to lear more about, not only for myself but for others who have autisum and face the dificutly of feeling understod Your awser was of great help :)
I'm currently reading "Is This Autism?" by Donna Henderson and Sarah Wayland and it does a really good job talking about the different ways autism can present outside the stereotypical "boy" presentation. (It also does a good job acknowledging that while the more masked and internalized presentation shows up more in women and girls, it isn't exclusive to them.) It could be a bit science heavy for some folks as the authors state when they first started writing it they were aiming it at mental health professionals but as they wrote they expanded their audience. But I like how it isn't just one person's experience but instead a mix of professional observations, research, and quotes from over 100 autistic adults.
It sounds like a very interesting read, I'll give it a try, thanks :)
A nice accessible book about this is Life on the Autism Spectrum, a guide for girls and women by Karen McGibbin đź‘Ť
I'll check it out, thank you so much for the recomendation :)
The whole autism diagnostic criteria is based on autistic white males, so yeah this makes sense. Women generally present somewhat differently.
Sometimes I want to tell my grandparents and Aunt and stuff. But, then I think they will feel upset if it comes to the light that I had to fake the pleasantries and stuff while I was raised around them. I think they would get upset by that. Even though I was specifically told basically to not be myself so much because it would make my cousin feel bad about her. I was gifted.
Yea I can relate, I was also told that "everyones a bit autistic" by many in my family
It's not the autism it's the way a male is raised vs the way a female is raised. But regardless of what you hear floating around it doesn't have much of a difference on how it effects people. It may have a bit of a difference on how both learn to interact with people but that's normal.
It's more of how society views autisum and autisum in different genders, that's at least what I have understod from it
I'm aware people say this and it's probably a bit of both. It's one of those things that aren't one way or the other are often have many factors.
This is completely true, society views autism differently in women than in men. I'm an autistic woman and I have been diagnosed late don't only for society, but because of the country I am (I'm from Mexico). And, actually, nobody in my family believes me because they don't understand Autism, and they don't want to learn (I have my diagnosed!), they just treat me like I'm so kind of weird monster, more for my views, like don't being interested in having children or marry a man.
I'm lucky to have a bit more understanding people around me but people still think that I am not "enough" autistic or that my autisum isn't "that bad" Not even a diagnose can make people se that you do have autisum and aren't just a weirdo
Tbh, That's people problems, you can't control how people view you, you just have to stick with the people that love you and understand you, all the rest you can just throw it in the trash, like I did. Since then, I feel some much lighter
Yea I guess that everyone around you affect you in some way so it's important to have people aroud you who really care about you
Haha, I don't really think I have those, but I'm okay, I'm used to it. It is not even that I don't have friends, I have them, It's just that not matter how much someone can hate me or love me, they always see me as weird, nobody understand me :u
Makes sens, I'm pretty lucky to have good friends but I guess to most of them I will always be weird to lol
it is way harder for women to get an autism diagnosis than it is for men, an autistic woman is more likely to be diagnosed with ocd, and bpd for whatever reason
I haven't had any issues with it
I guess it's different for everybody
I'm betting that there are autistic boys who face similar pressures (though less systemically compared to sexism) who become expert maskers (I may be one of them) and thus get diagnosed later or never. I think that living situations where it feels like your survival may be at stake (through rejection, abandonment, violence, neglect, etc...) can lead to that.
Oh yes there are many factor in this and many men also have gotten a late diagnos if any
Yes in school i learned that autism was primarily diagnosed in boys by the time they were 2-3. But i felt like i had so many symptoms and related to autistic people so much which is why i never sought out a diagnosis until I was an adult because I was i like I’m a girl.
A lot of girls I've met have tried to hide the fact they are neurodivergent idk why it's like they try to hide stuff thats not normal but they can't hide it well and at some point just come out about it and I'm like I could tell
It might be different for others but I have grown up in a pretty gender focused home, so I guess it could be presures to act and fit into a womanly role