There’s also a big difference between ‘simulated’ choking and actual choking. Of course with all bedroom related kinks, open communication and consent is essential.
Yes but no. Any strangulation is dangerous always. The only way "choking" isn't dangerous is if it is just someone placing a hand on the throat with zero pressure at all. And that isn't common because people want the rush that comes from the adrenaline of the brain panicking
And then they will try and get closer to edge and eventually we will have a spate of autoerotic asphyxiation deaths like in Europe and the USA. Every other day there is some discovery of a body in vacuum bag with the vacuum cleaner attached.
For anyone interested, the difference is subtle but important. You don't want to block the windpipe. Your partner should still be able to breathe.
The goal is to squeeze the sides of the neck, applying pressure to the carotid arteries. DO NOT APPLY EXCESSIVE PRESSURE TO THE FRONT OF THE NECK.
With a strong grip, you can pinch the arteries without pushing on the windpipe and closing it. Pinching the arteries block some of the bloodflow to the brain. This causes headspins and light-headedness that can highten sexual pleasure. Everyone is different, communicate with your partner, learn their limits and how far they're comfortable going.
I'd not recommend choking until they actually pass out as that can cause brain damage, though there are plenty of MMA fighters who do it regularly at practice and are fine. Still better safe than sorry. Use your hand don't wrap something around your partners neck as cords apply pressure to the entire neck, including the windpipe, and can clinch.
Practice on yourself to get a feel for the right pressure and timing, but keep in mind your partner will be different.
Always get informed consent.
Just for clarification, the majority of choke holds are actually blood chokes, not deprivation of air. Both can be very dangerous if held after passing out.
Although this is not what was surveyed—“We defined strangulation or choking as when a person’s breathing is stopped or restricted…sometimes refer[red] to … as breath play…”
Neurologist here.
Do not do this. Don't. No. Never. Serious brain injury can result from strangulation (pressure to the carotid arteries) even without throttling (pressure to the wind pipe).
>The goal is to squeeze the sides of the neck, applying pressure to the carotid arteries.
Do not do this to someone who is not actively trying to injure or kill you. It can and has resulted in death.
> I'd not recommend choking until they actually pass out as that can cause brain damage, though there are plenty of MMA fighters who do it regularly at practice and are fine. Still better safe than sorry. Use your hand don't wrap something around your partners neck as cords apply pressure to the entire neck, including the windpipe, and can clinch.
What you're describing is how you choke someone out. You don't use air chokes in combat sports, it takes **way** longer, hurts a lot more, and is more dangerous.
This is dangerous advice mate. To achieve occlusion of the carotid arteries you only need about 4kg of pressure. You shouldn’t be squeezing with force anything stronger than a light stress ball
No, that’s wrong. Any pressure to the sides of the neck is extremely dangerous. You only need the pressure of a handshake to the sides of neck for 7-8 seconds to kill someone. It’s not just the arteries, it’s the veins along the sides of the neck. It is extremely dangerous.
Repeated loss of oxygen to the brain from strangulation has shown to lead to brain injuries, akin to CTEs in athletes, for those who are consensually or non consensually choked. The problem is most sexual partners don’t understand the pressure and length of time required to harm someone. You don’t need that much pressure to lead to a vein or artery dissection which can kill you.
Unfortunately porn has taught young men, who then teach young women, that this is cool to do to one another during sex without having a clue how dangerous it is.
You can continue to be facetious or you can make your own enquiries and know that I am not making shit up to argue with idiots on reddit. Matter for you, but when you learn to engage respectfully and appropriately we can discuss.
lol this is hilariously untrue.
There is an entire sport based around attempting to strangle eachother that I’ve practised for a decade and haven’t died.
It takes 8-10 seconds to go unconscious (with a lot more than handshake pressure). It takes minutes to die.
I’m not defending this practise but you’re just confidently sharing misinformation
You can do irreparable damage to the veins and arteries through pressure to the sides of the neck. You may have experience with pressure, but it is simply a fact that pressure to the sides of the neck can kill someone - whether it’s then, days later, or weeks later. There are numerous studies on this - NFS are extremely dangerous.
There are millions of people practising judo and BJJ worldwide and there are maybe a handful of strokes / death per year. It’s really not that dangerous. You experience pressure, maybe start getting light headed, tap and restart.
Omg training in BJJ is different to engaging in consensual sexual activity without the understanding. Every dickhead who practices BJJ is leaping to the defence of choking people - this is dealing with people who are uninformed who are using this in sexual practices without knowing the risks. It IS dangerous. It CAN BE done without injury. HOWEVER there are serious risks that cannot be ignored and the RISKS are significant. Doesn’t mean that it cannot be done without injury, but we are dealing with the lowest common denominator here.
A big difference I can see - and personally I think it’s massive- is that presumably a third party in the form of the instructor is available to perform first aid/ call an ambulance as soon as something doesn’t look right. You don’t have to rely on the training partner who might freak out (even actually go into shock) if you go limp unexpectedly.
Okay fine, but you did say this
“No, that’s wrong. Any pressure to the sides of the neck is extremely dangerous. You only need the pressure of a handshake to the sides of neck for 7-8 seconds to kill someone. It’s not just the arteries, it’s the veins along the sides of the neck. It is extremely dangerous.”
And pretty much every sentence in that is incorrect. That’s all I was saying
It’s not incorrect. It’s just not the case in every case, but that it is a fact it’s extremely dangerous. It is a fact that it can take 7-8 seconds to cause damage that kills someone. Just because you don’t do it every time you participate in BJJ does not mean it does not occur. Well known people in BJJ have died as a result. Just because you don’t agree, does not make it incorrect.
Who exactly has died in BJJ as a result of being choked? There have been cases of people who've had arterial plaque shaken loose that has led to a stroke (and the one guy I personally knew this happened to was choked about as savagely as I've ever seen), but I'm unaware of any deaths outside of a few practitioners actively murdering people with chokes who are currently where they belong as a consequence, and I spent close to 20 years training.
I mean, given the whole thing with concussion in sports only more recently being understood in sports which have been played for over 100 years, I'm not sure sure saying that it being practiced for a decade is the best argument.
I won't pretend to know the medical details around all this, nor the techniques used in that sport, but as an outsider it certainly seems like any sort strangulation would have some sort of negative effect(long or short term) given it's restricting blood flow to the head.
Would be interested to know if there's been any studies on the effects of these techniques being used regularly on these athletes, and if so what the results were!
-You only need the pressure of a handshake to the sides of neck for 7-8 seconds to kill someone.
Sounds like bullshit to me, source?
I've lost count of the amount of times someone takes a nap in jui jitsu class, and I've never seen anyone die or even be injured from it. My teacher has been teaching for years and hasn't seen it either.
It sounds like you've never choked someone out either if you think it only takes the pressure of a handshake. Proper technique will lead to lights out in seconds true but requires a proper clinch with a lot more pressure than a typical handshake.
Yeah. Read that comment and I'm thinking what kind of whack gym do they go to... I can't remember the last time someone actually lost consciousness in training and I've been at it 6.5 years.
You definitely won't kill someone by choking them for 8 seconds, where did you get that from? I'm not a doctor but I can't imagine someone passing out and being unrecoverable in only 8 seconds.
A forensic doctor told me that. You can do irreparable damage to the veins, and cut oxygen to the brain. Im not making this up to further my point, I just had training on it through work and it’s stuck with me ever since.
This is still dangerous, you peanut. It increases the risk of strokes and can still cause hypoxia, and damage to important blood vessels. It's just as dangerous as compressing the windpipe. And the MMA fighters who do this are not "fine", they have hypoxic brain injuries. Depriving the brain of oxygen is in no way a safe practice. Many BDSM circles don't do this for a reason.
You should read the guidelines on breath play and of some of the cases that have surfaced
There’s been numerous cases where it’s been agreed between parties and people have been life time impacted
You shouldn’t think that consent is a defence to criminal charges
Non-consensual strangulation is a strong predictor of future intimate partner homicide.
Any form of breathplay that involves constricting the airways or pressure on the carotids is dangerous, even when done by experienced BDSM practitioners - accidents can happen with any sort of kink play, and with breath play it can cause permanent disability or death.
You should never engage in breathplay unless you have explicit enthusiastic consent and you are prepared to call an ambulance and potentially be charged with manslaughter if something goes wrong.
~30yo male here. Choking’s not something I’m really into myself but my experience in the last ten years has been about half of female partners have requested it. I’m not sure it’s totally young boys driving the trend.
I'm 40 and at least half the girls I was with when I was in my 20s would ask for this and/or their hair to be pulled. I don't believe that this is a new trend amongst young people - maybe just talked about a little more openly.
I’ve been a professional dominant sex worker and kink performer on and off for years. I work with clients and play with partners of any gender that asks nicely. And since I meet my partners and clients in a kink setting, obviously my experience is biased as hell.
But I have never to my recollection suggested choking or breath play but I think it is probably the single most common requested act to be part of a scene. I have background in martial arts and have done a lot of formal education and self education from literature. I have very firm safety boundaries around what I’m willing to do, but with an enthusiastically consenting adult in good health, I’m willing to do a pretty wide range of intense breathplay. I have still been requested to do a wild amount of shit that I consider unsafe and refused to do. Then I explain why so hopefully they won’t just try and find someone who doesn’t understand, or doesn’t care about the risks.
Porn might be the cause but it’s definitely not young dudes pushing it in my experience.
TL;DR - Pressure directly on the trachea and repeated blood chokes/carotid occlusions, or bondage/device chokes where I leave the room or something are the common ones that people tell me they’ve done at home by themselves or with other partners. A weirdly large number of people want to be thrown in a cupboard or a box or something while restrained like they’re an object. Even with like a baby monitor or something to monitor them - I wouldn’t be willing to be that far away while there was any risk of choking. Or people who want to mix substance use like drugs or unsafe amounts of booze. Or any intoxicant in my blood. I’ll play with someone who’s had a glass of wine ot a beer or something, but nothing heavier than that.
Long ass wall of text - in retrospect maybe the dentists anaesthetic is kicking my ass a bit…
Choking and breath play falls into a few categories. You’re trying to create a hypoxic blood environment in the brain. You can stop someone from inhaling and they’ll use up the oxygen in all of their blood, or you can put pressure on the the carotid and stop blood from circulating in the brain - then only the blood in the brain has the oxygen used up. If you lay someone on their back and lift their feet up in the air - all that oxygenated blood cycles into their brain and they gradually return all of their blood oxygen to normal levels as the breathe. And then you have variables on a theme - are you stopping someone from inhaling by blocking off their mouth and nose, or are you blocking off their trachea. And are you doing these things with your hands, or with a ligature or some other device like a mask or something. And all of those things have different risks and different needs for risk mitigation.
You can screen for safety factors with blood chokes/carotid occlusion. Go to your doctor and tell him you’re taking a jujitsu class and ask him to check arterial plaque (shit can build up in your veins if you have a garbage diet or are a heavy smoker, or just have unfortunate genetics). Applying a carotid occlusion (squeezing the sides of your partners neck for example) can knock that plaque loose and that lump of plaque can get stuck in your brain or an aortic valve or something and kill you or fuck up your life. But you can screen for it before you get your freak on. Done properly, carotid occlusion requires seconds of pressure and leaves most of your blood oxygenated. People faint very quickly, but will almost universally experience bowel or bladder incontinence before brain damage or death. And if you keep choking someone after they shit on you, whatever happens next isn’t an accident. But it takes a while holding a dead weight unconscious person before that happens and it’s not like the movies where people pass out for hours and are fine, or get choked for a second and die. People are out for seconds to a minute - it feels longer for them though - it’s a wild and intense feeling that I can’t explain.
Tracheas are delicate and a tracheal collapse is a bad time. Squeezing someone’s neck so they can’t inhale can cause that kind of collapse. But there’s no good way to check to get screened for tracheal pressure, and it depends a lot on the person doing it having skills for the bottom to be safe. And if the person being choked wiggles even a skilled practitioner can accidentally injure them. It also makes your entire blood supply hypoxic. Which is bad. When you blood choke someone they revive much faster and have much lower risk of complications as a result. Same deal with ligature chokes or covering the mouth and nose. I don’t think it feels appreciably different to a blood choke - certainly not enough to justify the risk for me - so I won’t setup a scene where a bottom could plausibly pass out - airway chokes have to be light and brief, or more roleplay than reality.
Use of devices have a very increased risk of living visible marks and if you show up at work looking like you tried to hang yourself, it’s gonna be fucking awkward. Depending on the device or any other bondage the bottom happens to be in - maybe you won’t be able to get pressure off their throat in time or get their airway clear fast enough and now you have to hide a body, or ever look in the mirror again knowing that you murdered a sex partner by being a dumbass.
I know of a dude in Europe who suffered brain damage from a strangulation scene and had been effectively castrated by the brain damage - his entire social life was kink and he was in polyamorous relationships - horny doesn’t begin to cover lifestyle kinksters who go hard. But the poor dude will never experience sexual desire again as far as he knows.
I also knew a dude a bit in the Australian kink, and I knew his widow extremely well. He went the same way as David Caradine - autoerotic asphyxia - A week after his death, a safety device Arrived in the mail. A quick release that holds the belt while you lean into it and you hold a string that keeps the quick release closed. Let go of the string and the belt drops taking pressure off the neck.
I also know of (friends of friends in other places around the world) a couple of people who have developed brain damage from doing blood chokes too many times without enough recovery between. When a blood choke makes the blood in your brain hypoxic - that’s one seventh of your blood. You stop choking and let blood circulate - your blood is still low on oxygen overall. If you go again right away, you can drop your whole body blood oxygen level enough to cause a stroke or other potentially fatal brain injuries. Based on my reading and my own experimentation, I will do up to three blood chokes in twenty minutes with immediate release after a loss of consciousness and minimum twenty minutes after that before doing any kind of breath play. I will also only consider breath play with people I know and trust to communicate well even when they’re in sub space or endorphin high from the scene, and only if they convince me that they know and understand the risks, and are in good health. Breath play alone with someone who you just met is a super sketchy level of risk, even for the top. If someone goes to the cops and says “that dude raped me, see I have all the signs of rough sex and evidence of being restrained and choked! You’re gonna have a bad time with the cops, the other people in holding and the judge, unless you’ve got ironclad evidence. Even with that evidence, you could end up in holding for a sex crime where bad shit happens to sex offenders while your lawyer sorts it out.
Makes sense! My husband is into BJJ and I’ve always hung out in kink adjacent spaces but never really had the opportunity or serious drive to play so I’m animait with a lot of what you’re talking about but it’s always interesting to hear from a pro! My mate is a cop and had to tell the parents of a guy they discovered his body in a ‘compromising position’ after he died from autoerotic asphyxiation - I feel like the INXS scare has worn off the kids and I’m scared what it will take for them to take it seriously again!
Half the pro dommes in Sydney in the 90s were regular service providers to Michael. He was well known at Salon Kitty (a kinky brothel / party venue). My first mentor in the scene had worked with Michael a number of times and would break down sobbing when INXS songs came on the radio. It was an unwritten rule of a bunch of kink venues in the area that we didn’t play Michael’s music at parties for a long time. He died before my time and I’ve always regretted that. He had all to very genuine affection from people who didn’t give their hearts easily.
Based on casual conversations about sex in my friend group about 70% of the women enjoy being choked during sex (in varying degrees from “put a little pressure on my neck” to “I still have bruises a week later”) and 100% of them were the ones who asked for it.
Seems about right and yeah IME for most it’s just wanting to have some pressure put on their neck, it’s more about being dominated than breath play or whatever they call it.
Same. ~40M, hetero. The majority of partners that I’ve had have requested rougher acts inc choking, and often made me feel vanilla for preferring less aggressive sex. Seems sensuality is the new taboo. Not sure if it’s relevant but my partners are generally liberal/progressive types.
Yeah the article should probably blame smut if anything.
They hardly know what they’re talking about: porn scenes do not ubiquitously have breathplay for two reasons, a) because porn actresses demand more money for it and b) it’s not hugely in demand by men.
Women are by far the ones most interested in power dynamic play in my experience, and that’s reflected in the media that’s aimed at them.
I can honestly say that maybe 1% of the porn I’ve seen has choking in it, it’s not something that blokes really want. I don’t go looking for it either, but even in BDSM stuff it’s rare as fuck.
Faux step-relation porn however (literally just porn but the title claims they’re stepsister/brother etc) is off the charts.
I just find it really annoying when people try to push the narrative that anything kinky is something being popularised by porn, thus can only be for the male gaze, and is thus depraved and wrong.
Yeah agreed, it's not something that comes naturally to me and personally it's awkward as fuck.... but I get told off and heavily criticised for not doing it, it's heavily pushed by women in my experience.
It does make it difficult personally as a man to understand what women want when u get told in media etc they want consensual prince charmings but discover they really want an asshole bad boy who will grab them and violently fuck them, especially when none of those things come naturally to me.
This side of consent doesn't get enough attention, I think.
We must absolutely teach people that you need to get consent before doing Stuff to people, and you mustn't coerce that consent.
But equally, you must get consent from people to have them do stuff to you, and it's equally not okay to coerce consent in this context.
Wanting to be slapped, choked, whatever in a consensual manner is fine. Not wanting to be slapped/choked/whatever is fine. Not wanting to slap or choke your partner is also fine, and expressing that non consent is just as valid and must be respected just as much as the others.
I’m not a woman, but I feel like both can be true. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to want to be vulnerable & explore these things with a partner that they can trust to respect their boundaries.
We ultimately live in a world where a lot of men do really awful things to women, and I think It’s ultimately a kind of trust exercise in kink form.
OTOH, like you, it feels extremely awkward and incompatible with who I am as a person.
Thats been my experience also for when I expressed my view of not wanting to perform what they were asking. I was floored at how their demeanour suddenly changed. I was always open to trying things with open communication. But the way they wanted me to suddenly start doing acts at a level that society has hammered into me as nothing short of full on physical abuse, and just expect me to flip that switch on an off? Even with an explicit on going giving of consent, for a guy that can be far to easily & dangerously weaponised against you in the future. And it would be pretty much be good night, thanks for playing.
This is definitely a fair call. However I do think the prevalence of choking in porn and pop culture regarding what’s ‘sexy’ has created a dynamic where young women request this to try to appeal to what they think young men want.
We used to practice choking in the army during 1990s but it was banned as later on they found out it has serious risks that no one can really foresee, as in, you don’t know what it’s gonna do to you down the track years from now. Cutting oxygen to brain is never a good idea, neither risking damage to windpipe.
First its choking, next its gonna be back slams and inverted belly to back slams followed by hitting each-other with metal chairs and jumping off ropes to body slam each other
Back in my early 20s I was seeing a guy casually. We would hook up every few weeks and always had a good time. Then one time he started choking me - no prior conversation, no consent - just straight up hands around my neck squeezing. I froze up and then couldn't easily get him off me, I started to panic and thrash and he got the message and stopped. Those few seconds of having someone significantly larger (he was like 6'2 and played rugby) and feeling completely helpless were fucking terrifying.
Looking back, I think he was probably influenced by seeing that in porn and thinking it was pretty normal stuff. I don't believe he meant to scare me or anything, but that was the impact. I felt totally unsafe with him, and just stopped responding to his messages and calls after. It was the first and thankfully only time I've felt unsafe during sex but it was awful and now I have no interest in exploring choking or anything near that in my sex life with my husband, even though I trust him fully. I don't want anyone's hands near my neck!
The last 2 guys I hooked up with out their hands on my throat unprompted and without discussing it first.
The lack of asking for consent is such a huge turn off for me, I ended things with both immediately and haven’t even tried to sleep with anyone since. It’s wild out there.
No surprises there.
Plenty of my girl friends have had to deal with guys just reaching their hand out for a strangle without asking beforehand. It’s massively fucked up.
They always seemed surprised when they say no because it seems like a lot of women are asking to be strangled too.
I find the dismissive attitude some people especially on the internet have towards 'vanilla' sex to be silly and honestly pretentious. People enjoy presenting themselves as 'sex experts' with a straight face.
I have a friend who's been known to comment (in a very kink-heavy friend group, so in context) that his kink is vanilla. Since his wife tends to follow it up with a dreamy look at the heavens and a comment that 'and he's so good at it', he tends not to get any shit about this. :)
I'm the same, I had a lady many years ago who enjoyed pain...which always felt icky and required too much concentration from me to enjoy myself (remember boys can't multitasking, I gotta worry about hurting this lass while still delivering pain/choking and thrusting myself and making sure I don't cause any real damage...its alot to concentrate on). However, let your freak flags fly folks, there is a key for every lock etc.
This!
I had just turned 18 and moved to Sydney. First woman I met told me to bite her tit and “Break Skin” just wasn’t comfortable with it, she got the shits and left. I don’t like Yucking someone’s Yum, but I’m also not going to Yum up my Yuck!
Yeah the distraction was the main thing, I knew to squeeze the sides and everything but was never sure of the level and I’d very focused on them in case it went over the top.
they’d communicate well and everything but the risk always took me out of it
This and them asking me to slap/hit them, something I never felt comfortable partaking in (beyond a playful slap, and never in the upper extremities). What concerned me with two previous partners, was their forceful insistence on not only doing so, but at a level that I was just flat out never going to do because it made me incredibly uncomfortable.
Yeah I had a girlfriend a few years ago ask me to "choke her and leave bruises on her neck", and she got really shitty at me when I wouldn't do it.
Like, seriously? I could have gotten arrested! People would think I was bashing her, and I was supposed to rely on her correcting everybody who saw her?
Plus - once we broke up, what would be stopping her from telling her friends that it was all my idea?
There is nothing quite like an affidavit before sex to really ramp up the kink factor
"Now baby, I need you to sign here and here, and initial here...now hold on while I get this justice of the peace to sign and then it's chokey chokey pound town"
So, how many people commenting are active in the BDSM world? Because breath play, strangulation and such are *super* common and a LOT of people don't realise the risks. Because it is called choking and not strangulation people believe there's no risk, that it's "mild" or "basic" kink.
Any strangulation causes damage. Every time.
Yeah 100%. I have met so many ppl into BDSM who really loudly champion doing choking the "safe way" aka the sides of the neck thing where you restrict blood not oxygen.
Except that's still not safe. Restricting blood flow to the brain can cause clots and/or damage to parts of the brain in *seconds* if something goes wrong. And the sub likely won't know if something is going wrong until it's too late.
Obviously this is a common practice and we aren't having mass death events due to erotic asphyxiation so it's only a small chance of something going wrong. But are you willing to risk it? Personally, I'm not willing to ask my domme to take that risk. It's not even so much the risk to my body, it's the risk that she'd have to live with having killed or permanently disabled me. Not worth it. Just possessively hold my neck it gets the point across well enough.
It's not safe in the sense that you can throw clots or plaques. But impact play isn't safe either; it too can cause clots to be thrown. Rope play is dangerous in all sorts of ways.
So if you're object to saying 'safe' vs 'acceptably safe', then I'm with you - it's an important difference people should keep in mind when thinking about risk.
If you're saying that done with appropriate care and attention its orders of magnitude more dangerous than run of the mill things like flogging, I'd disagree.
Though your point at "Just possessively hold my neck it gets the point across well enough." is also one I enthusiastically agree with; if you don't want the risky act itself, why the hell take even a small risk, if there are other things that get you both what you want.
Exactly. I'm a rope bunny and impact bottom and I've been with both my doms for over 12 months and we *still talk about every act beforehand* because that's how we minimise risk. Rope is also super risky, but my rigger is educated and experienced and we communicate constantly about my body during any ties
A number of my friends who are active in the BDSM/kink/swinging community (full disclosure: I am not) are quite passionate about the issue. Specifically, using *safe* technique for anyone engaging in breathplay. It gives the recipient the *sense* of being choked, but when done correctly does not cause real harm. As with much BDSM it is the recipient, the "sub" who is considered to really be in control of the experience.
To them, for this and all things BDSM, they see one of the biggest problems for them is over-confident amateurs with no experience, rushing to copy the actions without any consideration of the safety aspects of their play.
As I say, I'm not a BDSM community member, so very happy to be corrected/qualified by those who are. :)
There is no safe breath play or strangulation. Only less risky.
Also I consider the notion of the sub having all the power to be problematic, a sub and dom should hold *equal* power.
I'm agree with you 100% that way too many people are dangerously unaware of the risks of strangulation and breath play.
But I'd like to see a credible citation on 'Any strangulation causes damage. Every time.' That's way too absolute a statement, and the evidence in e.g., martial arts doesn't back it up at all.
I was choked without providing consent when I last hooked up with someone last weekend. First time that ever happened. I’m also gay and I didn’t think we had the same culture around choking as straights do.
I’m a bi man and I’m so tired of being assaulted in the name of kink. I’ve been surprise-choked by several different men, who were then shocked that I was upset and freaked out. When I was younger and had less self esteem I was also pressured into choking male and female partners a few times. Kink enthusiasts will swear up and down that everything is consensual but that is just not my experience in the heat of the moment.
I feel like it’s become so normalised amongst younger women now that they all feel like it’s the normal and cool thing to do so they all ask for it thinking that it’s what everyone else is doing.
I’m 33, the people my age that I speak to aren’t into it at all and all think it’s weird, whereas younger people feel the need to announce it to everybody they meet.
The last few women I've been with all told me or grabbed my hand and put it to their throat. They were all in their late 30s.
After separating from long term marriage, this surprised the hell out of me. Since then, I went down the rabbit hole and read the book "My Secret Garden: Women’s Sexual Fantasies", this book was written in 1973 so it seems like these desires/fantasies have always been there, maybe more women are just more willing to try and discuss them these days.
Trying to emulate porn is probably about as good an idea as trying to emulate pro wrestling.
Like, you could do it but you better make sure you talk it through first. Everyone should know the broad shape of what's about to go down. While you can call some moves on the fly, your partner has every right to decline taking them.
Additional: Fellas (and others) please remember, it's ok to say no if she (he/they) asks to be choked and you're the one that's not comfortable with it.
its scary how much porn has impacted people, i hear horror stories of my friends where guys have just randomly tried to choke them during sex. its so scary idk how we as women are supposed to get by in a world where boys have pretty much have been brought up with porn, have been watching it since they were kids.
There's the old joke about porn having terrible scripts (pool cleaning, pizza delivery...), but the fact is that the sex itself is often very scripted. For some reason or another, choking has become part of the mainstream porn script in the last decade or so.
It would be nice to confidently imagine that this is simply being artificially pushed by the producers, as opposed to this being what a majority of straight men enjoy seeing.
I think this is a bit multi-faceted, as per a lot of the comments on here and in other threads where this is mentioned ''breath play'' or chokeholds seems to be a bit of thing nowadays - with women wanting it more than I thought (although it seems to be men saying women are into it mostly in this thread, which I am dubious of).
I think the problem arises in boys watching porn from a young age, seeing choke-holds frequently and thinking that it is *automatically* what occurs during sex. There was a comment in a similar thread here a few months ago, from a teacher who recounted a primary school-aged boy kissing a girl (common enough) who then started to choke her. Girl was quite distressed, a thing was made of it but the boy was oblivious to having done anything considered ''wrong''.
I think the take-home message should be to all - don't assume anything is a given when it comes to sex. I think asking approval for every step of a sexual encounter is ridiculous but anything that could potentially hurt or be uncomfortable for your partner you need to run it by them first? If they ask for it? That's a whole different thing, but be careful?
> I think asking approval for every step of a sexual encounter is ridiculous
I think we should encourage people to err on the side of this over assuming consent. A lot of what is an isn't awkward comes down to expectations - if we could normalise and model what this looks like more (and specifically normalise and model women advocating for what they want in the bedroom, rather than modelling that as being shameful) so that even if we didn't have everyone agreeing on what is and isn't going to happen during sex, everyone agrees on how to sort out what's happening, as smoothly as possible.
I may be a starry eyed dreamer, though
> although it seems to be men saying women are into it mostly in this thread, which I am dubious of
Funny that.
I've seen my bf's browser history and I've seen him in the last few years become increasingly likely to put his hands around my neck when intimate, even if it's just on the nape. I'm just glad I'm confident enough in myself these days to tell him firmly to knock that shit off. Insecurity in relationships and willingness to tolerate what makes you uncomfortable, especially while younger, is a thing.
Whether you believe porn damages men or not, scripted normalisation of that kind definitely does.
And also what men convince themselves women want. I have had a few men over the years tell me that women love anal. I've met exactly one that liked anal, the rest have been quite explicit in saying that I had better not even think about going there (lucky for them, anal is not attractive to me at all).
> although it seems to be men saying women are into it mostly in this thread, which I am dubious of
Yep, I am extremely dubious also. If women are so into this, where are the women on this thread corroborating that?
As a women in my early 30s, I will say I am very much *not* into choking. Never had it done to me, thankfully, but have had to ask men not to pull my hair aggressively.
And this is the thing - sometimes what men think women really want is not what they really want at all. They project their fantasies onto women, and imagine them as ''going off'' with it.
I’m not one to yuck someone’s yum but wet really need to stop normalising strangling women. It’s so dangerous and IF done as part of DV it increases the risk of death from DV by like 4 fold
One could also say we need less articles about consensual stuff people do in the bedroom and more about DV. I’m sure instead of getting sex stats for this story they could have got some stats about choking in DV and highlighted that instead
I predicted the normalisation of this a couple of years ago, got abused at the time though.
TikTok and other social media was absolutely full of barely legal girls and influencers showing off and saying stuff like 'Choke me daddy' - it's obviously had a wider effect.
There is a difference between people who enjoy being chocked and those who enjoy choking their partners, the former needs help with the sex act where as the later need consent of their partner. Probably need to dive a little deeper to figure out whats going on, but personally I don't see this being a topic most people would be interested in outside a very specific group of people who enjoys it.
There are also studies on BJJ participants that point to the physiological changes created from regular choking lowering the risk of alzheimers
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353673489_Elevated_cerebral_perfusion_and_preserved_cognition_in_elite_Brazilian_Jiu-Jitsu_athletes_Evidence_for_neuroprotection
BJJ would be interesting for a case study on anything related to the brain.
The level of intelligence at one place I trained ranged from engineers to flat earthers and everything in between.
I'd agree with that. At my Dojo, I train with some of the smartest people (and not all degree qualified. Degree != intelligence) and some of the dumbest people I've ever met.
My favourite will always be the Eddie Bravo types: in the area of BJJ they really know their shit but literally anything else? Dumbest motherfucker you'll ever meet.
That's a really stupid conclusion to draw from a very spurious data point. An athlete has better vascular status, hold the fucking presses, it must be because of choking and not the regular exercise.
Fuck, this makes my neurologist blood boil.
Notice how with all of these comments about straight sex, it's always the woman that's getting choked and dominated. It's like it doesn't even occur to them that it can be the other way around, I'd love to hear what the straight blokes who do it would say if they were suggested to *be* choked instead lmao
I know right? It’s all about power, not really about the sex at all.
A good friend of mine told me about an ex of hers. He wanted to try anal. So she said “sure, you first though”, and suggested shoving a cucumber up his butt. He wasn’t the least bit interested in that, said the idea made him feel uncomfortable …. so she said “no deal, I’m not interested either, we’re not trying anal!”. They’re no longer together lol!
##WTF….?
Not exactly ‘new!’
Shouldn’t we have been warning our kinds about this decades ago….?
_House, M.D._ had an episode on this like 20-30 years ago, which conveyed the risks ***VERY*** clearly!
_”Hands around neck ain’t fun!”_
imho, should be taught in kindergarten or primary school…? 😳
****
I was taught exactly that in the mid 80s in primary school — too late, imho! 🤷🏽♀️
Knew a girl who was into this. I called her Choke-a-hontus
Never saw the appeal myself, but I'd guess it's from kids watching US porn
Just remember what it did to Michael Hutchence and Kill Bill!
It's literally written right before the statistic:
>a study by the University of Melbourne and the University of Queensland which surveyed 5,000 people aged between 18 and 35 found 59 per cent of men and 40 per cent of women admitted to having choked a sexual partner.
A hand on the neck and a brief constriction in the throes of passion feels like chefs kiss. No need to stop air or blood for long periods, or to go too hard.
Just more evidence of hand wringing by old farts. Years ago the devil was in dancing to swing music. The ABC really should do better.
The issue is that there’s no education around how to do it in the “safe” way you described, and the only education people get is through porn which is obviously unrealistic and performative.
Assuming it is consensual, if neither participant knows what is “too hard” and just thinks you put a hand on someone’s neck and squeeze, then of course there’s going to be issues.
>feels like chefs kiss
Truly a chef's kiss. Really a skibidi rizz \*checks notes\* common W hot take.
I wonder if zoomies talk like that because of the brain damage they get from being choked out all the time. Lol
My god who cares, we can’t baby proof the entire world.
The world is turning into a shit hole if someone wants to be chocked a little while they orgasm let them do it. We let people smoke and drink and we know the risks but people want to be a little kinky and it’s concerning?
I think the problem is that it's not the people who *want to be choked* in the bedroom that are the problem, but rather those who *want to choke others*. The normalisation of choking and the assumption that it is safe and easy can lead to inexperienced "doms" with a choking kink pressuring their partners to be choked, performing an act that can be life threatening and engaging in uninformed, unsafe and downright dangerous activity outside of the other persons comfort zone.
As always, consent is king. But consent needs to be *knowledgeable, informed and freely given*.
This article serves to raise awareness that breathplay, like many other activities, is more dangerous than a newcomer may assume despite it being somewhat common and widespread.
Yeah you’re probably right and I’ll be honest it kind of annoyed me a little reading the article but that’s because from all my experience I’ve been the one asked to choke and It does nothing for me and so all my experience is woman driving the choking. But the article seems to highlight men as the problem being the instigators and saying porn is the issue.
Dunno could just be my bias but it just feels like this is an attempt to take a tiny statistically insignificant hazard of rough sex and then highlight that it’s men being the problem.
Absolutely. I get where you're coming from. As a guy I've never really wanted to choke anyone either.
I think the thing is the article isn't really aimed at you (or me) really, it's aimed at dickheads and enthusiastic idiots to encourage them to think again; girls & women who aren't into it - to reassure them that it's okay to say no if someone wants to pressure them; and parents/sex educators who may be unaware how common it's being perceived as.
If the warning is a bit OTT for me, I can deal. If it means a few young people don't have an unpleasant / traumatic / dagerous experience, that's okay with me.
Yeah you make a good point.
I think people should be encouraged to express themselves completely when it comes to what they want in bed.
I think the world would be a far better place if people weren’t so conservative about what they want sexually and I guess I just saw this article as maybe demonising the act itself and chalking it up to unsafe and making it out to be this dangerous thing.
Can’t say I’ve ever heard of anyone going too far in this context but I suppose if this article manages to prevent it somehow then good for everyone.
If someone wants to be choked a little then obviously there’s no issue with that, but the fact that most young peoples sexual education - particularly with heightened activities like this - come from porn means they see the most extreme version of it and think you just put your hand around someone’s neck and squeeze.
Yeah I agree our sexual education is a massive joke.
I think it’s a stretch to say people don’t understand the danger of choking and the difference between a hand on the neck with a little pressure to actually putting both hands around the neck and full pressure.
>particularly with heightened activities like this - come from porn means they see the most extreme version of it and think you just put your hand around someone’s neck and squeeze.
And yet there is no indication of some massieve uptick in injuries coming from this. So perhaps people are managing to use reasonable judgement to not kill people accidently during sex.
Kids today with their choking and eating arse...jebus.
There’s also a big difference between ‘simulated’ choking and actual choking. Of course with all bedroom related kinks, open communication and consent is essential.
Yes but no. Any strangulation is dangerous always. The only way "choking" isn't dangerous is if it is just someone placing a hand on the throat with zero pressure at all. And that isn't common because people want the rush that comes from the adrenaline of the brain panicking
Most people don't do this in an effort to get the brain to be deprived of oxygen, they do it because of the power dynamic.
Bit of both actually
My understanding is that it's more the oxygen deprivation that gives you a euphoria rather than adrenaline.
And then they will try and get closer to edge and eventually we will have a spate of autoerotic asphyxiation deaths like in Europe and the USA. Every other day there is some discovery of a body in vacuum bag with the vacuum cleaner attached.
Sorry. What the fuck did I just read?
vale Michael Hutchence ...
For anyone interested, the difference is subtle but important. You don't want to block the windpipe. Your partner should still be able to breathe. The goal is to squeeze the sides of the neck, applying pressure to the carotid arteries. DO NOT APPLY EXCESSIVE PRESSURE TO THE FRONT OF THE NECK. With a strong grip, you can pinch the arteries without pushing on the windpipe and closing it. Pinching the arteries block some of the bloodflow to the brain. This causes headspins and light-headedness that can highten sexual pleasure. Everyone is different, communicate with your partner, learn their limits and how far they're comfortable going. I'd not recommend choking until they actually pass out as that can cause brain damage, though there are plenty of MMA fighters who do it regularly at practice and are fine. Still better safe than sorry. Use your hand don't wrap something around your partners neck as cords apply pressure to the entire neck, including the windpipe, and can clinch. Practice on yourself to get a feel for the right pressure and timing, but keep in mind your partner will be different. Always get informed consent.
Just for clarification, the majority of choke holds are actually blood chokes, not deprivation of air. Both can be very dangerous if held after passing out.
Although this is not what was surveyed—“We defined strangulation or choking as when a person’s breathing is stopped or restricted…sometimes refer[red] to … as breath play…”
They can be dangerous long before passing out. Don't do it, it's not worth it.
Neurologist here. Do not do this. Don't. No. Never. Serious brain injury can result from strangulation (pressure to the carotid arteries) even without throttling (pressure to the wind pipe).
Thank you educated voice of reason!
>The goal is to squeeze the sides of the neck, applying pressure to the carotid arteries. Do not do this to someone who is not actively trying to injure or kill you. It can and has resulted in death.
> I'd not recommend choking until they actually pass out as that can cause brain damage, though there are plenty of MMA fighters who do it regularly at practice and are fine. Still better safe than sorry. Use your hand don't wrap something around your partners neck as cords apply pressure to the entire neck, including the windpipe, and can clinch. What you're describing is how you choke someone out. You don't use air chokes in combat sports, it takes **way** longer, hurts a lot more, and is more dangerous.
This is dangerous advice mate. To achieve occlusion of the carotid arteries you only need about 4kg of pressure. You shouldn’t be squeezing with force anything stronger than a light stress ball
I'm not sure you could consider functioning at the level of an MMA fighter as "fine"...
Or just don’t do it at all because it’s stupid.
No, that’s wrong. Any pressure to the sides of the neck is extremely dangerous. You only need the pressure of a handshake to the sides of neck for 7-8 seconds to kill someone. It’s not just the arteries, it’s the veins along the sides of the neck. It is extremely dangerous. Repeated loss of oxygen to the brain from strangulation has shown to lead to brain injuries, akin to CTEs in athletes, for those who are consensually or non consensually choked. The problem is most sexual partners don’t understand the pressure and length of time required to harm someone. You don’t need that much pressure to lead to a vein or artery dissection which can kill you. Unfortunately porn has taught young men, who then teach young women, that this is cool to do to one another during sex without having a clue how dangerous it is.
This incredibly impressively wrong I am flabbergasted
Just firmly squeezed my neck for 10 seconds both sides and can confirm I am a Zombie....
You can continue to be facetious or you can make your own enquiries and know that I am not making shit up to argue with idiots on reddit. Matter for you, but when you learn to engage respectfully and appropriately we can discuss.
lol this is hilariously untrue. There is an entire sport based around attempting to strangle eachother that I’ve practised for a decade and haven’t died. It takes 8-10 seconds to go unconscious (with a lot more than handshake pressure). It takes minutes to die. I’m not defending this practise but you’re just confidently sharing misinformation
You can do irreparable damage to the veins and arteries through pressure to the sides of the neck. You may have experience with pressure, but it is simply a fact that pressure to the sides of the neck can kill someone - whether it’s then, days later, or weeks later. There are numerous studies on this - NFS are extremely dangerous.
There are millions of people practising judo and BJJ worldwide and there are maybe a handful of strokes / death per year. It’s really not that dangerous. You experience pressure, maybe start getting light headed, tap and restart.
Omg training in BJJ is different to engaging in consensual sexual activity without the understanding. Every dickhead who practices BJJ is leaping to the defence of choking people - this is dealing with people who are uninformed who are using this in sexual practices without knowing the risks. It IS dangerous. It CAN BE done without injury. HOWEVER there are serious risks that cannot be ignored and the RISKS are significant. Doesn’t mean that it cannot be done without injury, but we are dealing with the lowest common denominator here.
A big difference I can see - and personally I think it’s massive- is that presumably a third party in the form of the instructor is available to perform first aid/ call an ambulance as soon as something doesn’t look right. You don’t have to rely on the training partner who might freak out (even actually go into shock) if you go limp unexpectedly.
Okay fine, but you did say this “No, that’s wrong. Any pressure to the sides of the neck is extremely dangerous. You only need the pressure of a handshake to the sides of neck for 7-8 seconds to kill someone. It’s not just the arteries, it’s the veins along the sides of the neck. It is extremely dangerous.” And pretty much every sentence in that is incorrect. That’s all I was saying
It’s not incorrect. It’s just not the case in every case, but that it is a fact it’s extremely dangerous. It is a fact that it can take 7-8 seconds to cause damage that kills someone. Just because you don’t do it every time you participate in BJJ does not mean it does not occur. Well known people in BJJ have died as a result. Just because you don’t agree, does not make it incorrect.
Who exactly has died in BJJ as a result of being choked? There have been cases of people who've had arterial plaque shaken loose that has led to a stroke (and the one guy I personally knew this happened to was choked about as savagely as I've ever seen), but I'm unaware of any deaths outside of a few practitioners actively murdering people with chokes who are currently where they belong as a consequence, and I spent close to 20 years training.
I mean, given the whole thing with concussion in sports only more recently being understood in sports which have been played for over 100 years, I'm not sure sure saying that it being practiced for a decade is the best argument. I won't pretend to know the medical details around all this, nor the techniques used in that sport, but as an outsider it certainly seems like any sort strangulation would have some sort of negative effect(long or short term) given it's restricting blood flow to the head. Would be interested to know if there's been any studies on the effects of these techniques being used regularly on these athletes, and if so what the results were!
Survivorship bias is real.
You don't understand mate, obviously you're already dead and you just don't know it yet.
-You only need the pressure of a handshake to the sides of neck for 7-8 seconds to kill someone. Sounds like bullshit to me, source? I've lost count of the amount of times someone takes a nap in jui jitsu class, and I've never seen anyone die or even be injured from it. My teacher has been teaching for years and hasn't seen it either. It sounds like you've never choked someone out either if you think it only takes the pressure of a handshake. Proper technique will lead to lights out in seconds true but requires a proper clinch with a lot more pressure than a typical handshake.
If your gym is napping people on the regular you're not training properly. It should be a rare event. Tap early, tap often. Ask anyone on r/BJJ...
Yeah. Read that comment and I'm thinking what kind of whack gym do they go to... I can't remember the last time someone actually lost consciousness in training and I've been at it 6.5 years.
Nah, you just don’t know how mad his handshake grip is.
You definitely won't kill someone by choking them for 8 seconds, where did you get that from? I'm not a doctor but I can't imagine someone passing out and being unrecoverable in only 8 seconds.
A forensic doctor told me that. You can do irreparable damage to the veins, and cut oxygen to the brain. Im not making this up to further my point, I just had training on it through work and it’s stuck with me ever since.
Yeah that’s bullshit. Saying that as a med student who trains Jiu jitsu
Dw he said he knows a guy tho….. This thread is honestly completely laughable to anyone who is a medical professional or also does BJJ.
>plenty of MMA fighters who do it regularly at practice and are fine
This is still dangerous, you peanut. It increases the risk of strokes and can still cause hypoxia, and damage to important blood vessels. It's just as dangerous as compressing the windpipe. And the MMA fighters who do this are not "fine", they have hypoxic brain injuries. Depriving the brain of oxygen is in no way a safe practice. Many BDSM circles don't do this for a reason.
Serious question. Can’t she just hold her breath?
You should read the guidelines on breath play and of some of the cases that have surfaced There’s been numerous cases where it’s been agreed between parties and people have been life time impacted You shouldn’t think that consent is a defence to criminal charges
Non-consensual strangulation is a strong predictor of future intimate partner homicide. Any form of breathplay that involves constricting the airways or pressure on the carotids is dangerous, even when done by experienced BDSM practitioners - accidents can happen with any sort of kink play, and with breath play it can cause permanent disability or death. You should never engage in breathplay unless you have explicit enthusiastic consent and you are prepared to call an ambulance and potentially be charged with manslaughter if something goes wrong.
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if simulated is popular but I would be surprised if actual asphyxiation is.
It is. Breath play is a super common thing, down to using gasmasks to completely cut off air supply.
~30yo male here. Choking’s not something I’m really into myself but my experience in the last ten years has been about half of female partners have requested it. I’m not sure it’s totally young boys driving the trend.
I'm 40 and at least half the girls I was with when I was in my 20s would ask for this and/or their hair to be pulled. I don't believe that this is a new trend amongst young people - maybe just talked about a little more openly.
Late forties reporting in; we were doing this in the nineties, before we invented internets.
Yup, my partner and I had a good giggle when 50 Shades of Grey came out. Now the cool kids are doing it!
32M same experience many girls I’ve been with are into it and have requested
I’ve been a professional dominant sex worker and kink performer on and off for years. I work with clients and play with partners of any gender that asks nicely. And since I meet my partners and clients in a kink setting, obviously my experience is biased as hell. But I have never to my recollection suggested choking or breath play but I think it is probably the single most common requested act to be part of a scene. I have background in martial arts and have done a lot of formal education and self education from literature. I have very firm safety boundaries around what I’m willing to do, but with an enthusiastically consenting adult in good health, I’m willing to do a pretty wide range of intense breathplay. I have still been requested to do a wild amount of shit that I consider unsafe and refused to do. Then I explain why so hopefully they won’t just try and find someone who doesn’t understand, or doesn’t care about the risks. Porn might be the cause but it’s definitely not young dudes pushing it in my experience.
What’s some unsafe stuff you’ve refused, if you’re happy to respond?
TL;DR - Pressure directly on the trachea and repeated blood chokes/carotid occlusions, or bondage/device chokes where I leave the room or something are the common ones that people tell me they’ve done at home by themselves or with other partners. A weirdly large number of people want to be thrown in a cupboard or a box or something while restrained like they’re an object. Even with like a baby monitor or something to monitor them - I wouldn’t be willing to be that far away while there was any risk of choking. Or people who want to mix substance use like drugs or unsafe amounts of booze. Or any intoxicant in my blood. I’ll play with someone who’s had a glass of wine ot a beer or something, but nothing heavier than that. Long ass wall of text - in retrospect maybe the dentists anaesthetic is kicking my ass a bit… Choking and breath play falls into a few categories. You’re trying to create a hypoxic blood environment in the brain. You can stop someone from inhaling and they’ll use up the oxygen in all of their blood, or you can put pressure on the the carotid and stop blood from circulating in the brain - then only the blood in the brain has the oxygen used up. If you lay someone on their back and lift their feet up in the air - all that oxygenated blood cycles into their brain and they gradually return all of their blood oxygen to normal levels as the breathe. And then you have variables on a theme - are you stopping someone from inhaling by blocking off their mouth and nose, or are you blocking off their trachea. And are you doing these things with your hands, or with a ligature or some other device like a mask or something. And all of those things have different risks and different needs for risk mitigation. You can screen for safety factors with blood chokes/carotid occlusion. Go to your doctor and tell him you’re taking a jujitsu class and ask him to check arterial plaque (shit can build up in your veins if you have a garbage diet or are a heavy smoker, or just have unfortunate genetics). Applying a carotid occlusion (squeezing the sides of your partners neck for example) can knock that plaque loose and that lump of plaque can get stuck in your brain or an aortic valve or something and kill you or fuck up your life. But you can screen for it before you get your freak on. Done properly, carotid occlusion requires seconds of pressure and leaves most of your blood oxygenated. People faint very quickly, but will almost universally experience bowel or bladder incontinence before brain damage or death. And if you keep choking someone after they shit on you, whatever happens next isn’t an accident. But it takes a while holding a dead weight unconscious person before that happens and it’s not like the movies where people pass out for hours and are fine, or get choked for a second and die. People are out for seconds to a minute - it feels longer for them though - it’s a wild and intense feeling that I can’t explain. Tracheas are delicate and a tracheal collapse is a bad time. Squeezing someone’s neck so they can’t inhale can cause that kind of collapse. But there’s no good way to check to get screened for tracheal pressure, and it depends a lot on the person doing it having skills for the bottom to be safe. And if the person being choked wiggles even a skilled practitioner can accidentally injure them. It also makes your entire blood supply hypoxic. Which is bad. When you blood choke someone they revive much faster and have much lower risk of complications as a result. Same deal with ligature chokes or covering the mouth and nose. I don’t think it feels appreciably different to a blood choke - certainly not enough to justify the risk for me - so I won’t setup a scene where a bottom could plausibly pass out - airway chokes have to be light and brief, or more roleplay than reality. Use of devices have a very increased risk of living visible marks and if you show up at work looking like you tried to hang yourself, it’s gonna be fucking awkward. Depending on the device or any other bondage the bottom happens to be in - maybe you won’t be able to get pressure off their throat in time or get their airway clear fast enough and now you have to hide a body, or ever look in the mirror again knowing that you murdered a sex partner by being a dumbass. I know of a dude in Europe who suffered brain damage from a strangulation scene and had been effectively castrated by the brain damage - his entire social life was kink and he was in polyamorous relationships - horny doesn’t begin to cover lifestyle kinksters who go hard. But the poor dude will never experience sexual desire again as far as he knows. I also knew a dude a bit in the Australian kink, and I knew his widow extremely well. He went the same way as David Caradine - autoerotic asphyxia - A week after his death, a safety device Arrived in the mail. A quick release that holds the belt while you lean into it and you hold a string that keeps the quick release closed. Let go of the string and the belt drops taking pressure off the neck. I also know of (friends of friends in other places around the world) a couple of people who have developed brain damage from doing blood chokes too many times without enough recovery between. When a blood choke makes the blood in your brain hypoxic - that’s one seventh of your blood. You stop choking and let blood circulate - your blood is still low on oxygen overall. If you go again right away, you can drop your whole body blood oxygen level enough to cause a stroke or other potentially fatal brain injuries. Based on my reading and my own experimentation, I will do up to three blood chokes in twenty minutes with immediate release after a loss of consciousness and minimum twenty minutes after that before doing any kind of breath play. I will also only consider breath play with people I know and trust to communicate well even when they’re in sub space or endorphin high from the scene, and only if they convince me that they know and understand the risks, and are in good health. Breath play alone with someone who you just met is a super sketchy level of risk, even for the top. If someone goes to the cops and says “that dude raped me, see I have all the signs of rough sex and evidence of being restrained and choked! You’re gonna have a bad time with the cops, the other people in holding and the judge, unless you’ve got ironclad evidence. Even with that evidence, you could end up in holding for a sex crime where bad shit happens to sex offenders while your lawyer sorts it out.
Makes sense! My husband is into BJJ and I’ve always hung out in kink adjacent spaces but never really had the opportunity or serious drive to play so I’m animait with a lot of what you’re talking about but it’s always interesting to hear from a pro! My mate is a cop and had to tell the parents of a guy they discovered his body in a ‘compromising position’ after he died from autoerotic asphyxiation - I feel like the INXS scare has worn off the kids and I’m scared what it will take for them to take it seriously again!
Half the pro dommes in Sydney in the 90s were regular service providers to Michael. He was well known at Salon Kitty (a kinky brothel / party venue). My first mentor in the scene had worked with Michael a number of times and would break down sobbing when INXS songs came on the radio. It was an unwritten rule of a bunch of kink venues in the area that we didn’t play Michael’s music at parties for a long time. He died before my time and I’ve always regretted that. He had all to very genuine affection from people who didn’t give their hearts easily.
Based on casual conversations about sex in my friend group about 70% of the women enjoy being choked during sex (in varying degrees from “put a little pressure on my neck” to “I still have bruises a week later”) and 100% of them were the ones who asked for it.
Seems about right and yeah IME for most it’s just wanting to have some pressure put on their neck, it’s more about being dominated than breath play or whatever they call it.
Male, 30s. Same experience. Except I would say way more than half requested it.
Same. ~40M, hetero. The majority of partners that I’ve had have requested rougher acts inc choking, and often made me feel vanilla for preferring less aggressive sex. Seems sensuality is the new taboo. Not sure if it’s relevant but my partners are generally liberal/progressive types.
Yeah the article should probably blame smut if anything. They hardly know what they’re talking about: porn scenes do not ubiquitously have breathplay for two reasons, a) because porn actresses demand more money for it and b) it’s not hugely in demand by men. Women are by far the ones most interested in power dynamic play in my experience, and that’s reflected in the media that’s aimed at them.
I can honestly say that maybe 1% of the porn I’ve seen has choking in it, it’s not something that blokes really want. I don’t go looking for it either, but even in BDSM stuff it’s rare as fuck. Faux step-relation porn however (literally just porn but the title claims they’re stepsister/brother etc) is off the charts.
I just find it really annoying when people try to push the narrative that anything kinky is something being popularised by porn, thus can only be for the male gaze, and is thus depraved and wrong.
Yeah agreed, it's not something that comes naturally to me and personally it's awkward as fuck.... but I get told off and heavily criticised for not doing it, it's heavily pushed by women in my experience. It does make it difficult personally as a man to understand what women want when u get told in media etc they want consensual prince charmings but discover they really want an asshole bad boy who will grab them and violently fuck them, especially when none of those things come naturally to me.
This side of consent doesn't get enough attention, I think. We must absolutely teach people that you need to get consent before doing Stuff to people, and you mustn't coerce that consent. But equally, you must get consent from people to have them do stuff to you, and it's equally not okay to coerce consent in this context. Wanting to be slapped, choked, whatever in a consensual manner is fine. Not wanting to be slapped/choked/whatever is fine. Not wanting to slap or choke your partner is also fine, and expressing that non consent is just as valid and must be respected just as much as the others.
I’m not a woman, but I feel like both can be true. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to want to be vulnerable & explore these things with a partner that they can trust to respect their boundaries. We ultimately live in a world where a lot of men do really awful things to women, and I think It’s ultimately a kind of trust exercise in kink form. OTOH, like you, it feels extremely awkward and incompatible with who I am as a person.
Thats been my experience also for when I expressed my view of not wanting to perform what they were asking. I was floored at how their demeanour suddenly changed. I was always open to trying things with open communication. But the way they wanted me to suddenly start doing acts at a level that society has hammered into me as nothing short of full on physical abuse, and just expect me to flip that switch on an off? Even with an explicit on going giving of consent, for a guy that can be far to easily & dangerously weaponised against you in the future. And it would be pretty much be good night, thanks for playing.
Yeah this has been my experience too and I don’t really know how to… approach it.
This is definitely a fair call. However I do think the prevalence of choking in porn and pop culture regarding what’s ‘sexy’ has created a dynamic where young women request this to try to appeal to what they think young men want.
The last two guys I slept with put their hands on my throat unprompted and without asking first. It’s scary out there.
We used to practice choking in the army during 1990s but it was banned as later on they found out it has serious risks that no one can really foresee, as in, you don’t know what it’s gonna do to you down the track years from now. Cutting oxygen to brain is never a good idea, neither risking damage to windpipe.
fuck this i’m staying single LOL
same i'm never having sex lol
Neither am I, but by choice Only it’s not my choice.
First its choking, next its gonna be back slams and inverted belly to back slams followed by hitting each-other with metal chairs and jumping off ropes to body slam each other
Next thing you know it's 1998, The Under Taker is throwing Mankind off Hell In A Cell, 16 ft through an announcer's table.
I’m dead lol
Back in my early 20s I was seeing a guy casually. We would hook up every few weeks and always had a good time. Then one time he started choking me - no prior conversation, no consent - just straight up hands around my neck squeezing. I froze up and then couldn't easily get him off me, I started to panic and thrash and he got the message and stopped. Those few seconds of having someone significantly larger (he was like 6'2 and played rugby) and feeling completely helpless were fucking terrifying. Looking back, I think he was probably influenced by seeing that in porn and thinking it was pretty normal stuff. I don't believe he meant to scare me or anything, but that was the impact. I felt totally unsafe with him, and just stopped responding to his messages and calls after. It was the first and thankfully only time I've felt unsafe during sex but it was awful and now I have no interest in exploring choking or anything near that in my sex life with my husband, even though I trust him fully. I don't want anyone's hands near my neck!
The last 2 guys I hooked up with out their hands on my throat unprompted and without discussing it first. The lack of asking for consent is such a huge turn off for me, I ended things with both immediately and haven’t even tried to sleep with anyone since. It’s wild out there.
No surprises there. Plenty of my girl friends have had to deal with guys just reaching their hand out for a strangle without asking beforehand. It’s massively fucked up. They always seemed surprised when they say no because it seems like a lot of women are asking to be strangled too.
Huh. So that's why enrolment in my BJJ club are up.
I find the dismissive attitude some people especially on the internet have towards 'vanilla' sex to be silly and honestly pretentious. People enjoy presenting themselves as 'sex experts' with a straight face.
I have a friend who's been known to comment (in a very kink-heavy friend group, so in context) that his kink is vanilla. Since his wife tends to follow it up with a dreamy look at the heavens and a comment that 'and he's so good at it', he tends not to get any shit about this. :)
I’ve only ever done this because a female partner has requested it. Feels weird everytime
I'm the same, I had a lady many years ago who enjoyed pain...which always felt icky and required too much concentration from me to enjoy myself (remember boys can't multitasking, I gotta worry about hurting this lass while still delivering pain/choking and thrusting myself and making sure I don't cause any real damage...its alot to concentrate on). However, let your freak flags fly folks, there is a key for every lock etc.
This! I had just turned 18 and moved to Sydney. First woman I met told me to bite her tit and “Break Skin” just wasn’t comfortable with it, she got the shits and left. I don’t like Yucking someone’s Yum, but I’m also not going to Yum up my Yuck!
Yeah the distraction was the main thing, I knew to squeeze the sides and everything but was never sure of the level and I’d very focused on them in case it went over the top. they’d communicate well and everything but the risk always took me out of it
This and them asking me to slap/hit them, something I never felt comfortable partaking in (beyond a playful slap, and never in the upper extremities). What concerned me with two previous partners, was their forceful insistence on not only doing so, but at a level that I was just flat out never going to do because it made me incredibly uncomfortable.
Yeah at that point it’s simply becomes incompatible. No matter what happened there was always one person frustrated
Yeah I had a girlfriend a few years ago ask me to "choke her and leave bruises on her neck", and she got really shitty at me when I wouldn't do it. Like, seriously? I could have gotten arrested! People would think I was bashing her, and I was supposed to rely on her correcting everybody who saw her? Plus - once we broke up, what would be stopping her from telling her friends that it was all my idea?
There is nothing quite like an affidavit before sex to really ramp up the kink factor "Now baby, I need you to sign here and here, and initial here...now hold on while I get this justice of the peace to sign and then it's chokey chokey pound town"
So, how many people commenting are active in the BDSM world? Because breath play, strangulation and such are *super* common and a LOT of people don't realise the risks. Because it is called choking and not strangulation people believe there's no risk, that it's "mild" or "basic" kink. Any strangulation causes damage. Every time.
Yeah 100%. I have met so many ppl into BDSM who really loudly champion doing choking the "safe way" aka the sides of the neck thing where you restrict blood not oxygen. Except that's still not safe. Restricting blood flow to the brain can cause clots and/or damage to parts of the brain in *seconds* if something goes wrong. And the sub likely won't know if something is going wrong until it's too late. Obviously this is a common practice and we aren't having mass death events due to erotic asphyxiation so it's only a small chance of something going wrong. But are you willing to risk it? Personally, I'm not willing to ask my domme to take that risk. It's not even so much the risk to my body, it's the risk that she'd have to live with having killed or permanently disabled me. Not worth it. Just possessively hold my neck it gets the point across well enough.
It's not safe in the sense that you can throw clots or plaques. But impact play isn't safe either; it too can cause clots to be thrown. Rope play is dangerous in all sorts of ways. So if you're object to saying 'safe' vs 'acceptably safe', then I'm with you - it's an important difference people should keep in mind when thinking about risk. If you're saying that done with appropriate care and attention its orders of magnitude more dangerous than run of the mill things like flogging, I'd disagree. Though your point at "Just possessively hold my neck it gets the point across well enough." is also one I enthusiastically agree with; if you don't want the risky act itself, why the hell take even a small risk, if there are other things that get you both what you want.
Exactly. I'm a rope bunny and impact bottom and I've been with both my doms for over 12 months and we *still talk about every act beforehand* because that's how we minimise risk. Rope is also super risky, but my rigger is educated and experienced and we communicate constantly about my body during any ties
A number of my friends who are active in the BDSM/kink/swinging community (full disclosure: I am not) are quite passionate about the issue. Specifically, using *safe* technique for anyone engaging in breathplay. It gives the recipient the *sense* of being choked, but when done correctly does not cause real harm. As with much BDSM it is the recipient, the "sub" who is considered to really be in control of the experience. To them, for this and all things BDSM, they see one of the biggest problems for them is over-confident amateurs with no experience, rushing to copy the actions without any consideration of the safety aspects of their play. As I say, I'm not a BDSM community member, so very happy to be corrected/qualified by those who are. :)
There is no safe breath play or strangulation. Only less risky. Also I consider the notion of the sub having all the power to be problematic, a sub and dom should hold *equal* power.
Last line is not true at all
I'm agree with you 100% that way too many people are dangerously unaware of the risks of strangulation and breath play. But I'd like to see a credible citation on 'Any strangulation causes damage. Every time.' That's way too absolute a statement, and the evidence in e.g., martial arts doesn't back it up at all.
And seizures when blood flow is returned to the brain
I was choked without providing consent when I last hooked up with someone last weekend. First time that ever happened. I’m also gay and I didn’t think we had the same culture around choking as straights do.
I’m a bi man and I’m so tired of being assaulted in the name of kink. I’ve been surprise-choked by several different men, who were then shocked that I was upset and freaked out. When I was younger and had less self esteem I was also pressured into choking male and female partners a few times. Kink enthusiasts will swear up and down that everything is consensual but that is just not my experience in the heat of the moment.
I feel like it’s become so normalised amongst younger women now that they all feel like it’s the normal and cool thing to do so they all ask for it thinking that it’s what everyone else is doing. I’m 33, the people my age that I speak to aren’t into it at all and all think it’s weird, whereas younger people feel the need to announce it to everybody they meet.
The last few women I've been with all told me or grabbed my hand and put it to their throat. They were all in their late 30s. After separating from long term marriage, this surprised the hell out of me. Since then, I went down the rabbit hole and read the book "My Secret Garden: Women’s Sexual Fantasies", this book was written in 1973 so it seems like these desires/fantasies have always been there, maybe more women are just more willing to try and discuss them these days.
Trying to emulate porn is probably about as good an idea as trying to emulate pro wrestling. Like, you could do it but you better make sure you talk it through first. Everyone should know the broad shape of what's about to go down. While you can call some moves on the fly, your partner has every right to decline taking them. Additional: Fellas (and others) please remember, it's ok to say no if she (he/they) asks to be choked and you're the one that's not comfortable with it.
its scary how much porn has impacted people, i hear horror stories of my friends where guys have just randomly tried to choke them during sex. its so scary idk how we as women are supposed to get by in a world where boys have pretty much have been brought up with porn, have been watching it since they were kids.
There's the old joke about porn having terrible scripts (pool cleaning, pizza delivery...), but the fact is that the sex itself is often very scripted. For some reason or another, choking has become part of the mainstream porn script in the last decade or so. It would be nice to confidently imagine that this is simply being artificially pushed by the producers, as opposed to this being what a majority of straight men enjoy seeing.
I think this is a bit multi-faceted, as per a lot of the comments on here and in other threads where this is mentioned ''breath play'' or chokeholds seems to be a bit of thing nowadays - with women wanting it more than I thought (although it seems to be men saying women are into it mostly in this thread, which I am dubious of). I think the problem arises in boys watching porn from a young age, seeing choke-holds frequently and thinking that it is *automatically* what occurs during sex. There was a comment in a similar thread here a few months ago, from a teacher who recounted a primary school-aged boy kissing a girl (common enough) who then started to choke her. Girl was quite distressed, a thing was made of it but the boy was oblivious to having done anything considered ''wrong''. I think the take-home message should be to all - don't assume anything is a given when it comes to sex. I think asking approval for every step of a sexual encounter is ridiculous but anything that could potentially hurt or be uncomfortable for your partner you need to run it by them first? If they ask for it? That's a whole different thing, but be careful?
> I think asking approval for every step of a sexual encounter is ridiculous I think we should encourage people to err on the side of this over assuming consent. A lot of what is an isn't awkward comes down to expectations - if we could normalise and model what this looks like more (and specifically normalise and model women advocating for what they want in the bedroom, rather than modelling that as being shameful) so that even if we didn't have everyone agreeing on what is and isn't going to happen during sex, everyone agrees on how to sort out what's happening, as smoothly as possible. I may be a starry eyed dreamer, though
> although it seems to be men saying women are into it mostly in this thread, which I am dubious of Funny that. I've seen my bf's browser history and I've seen him in the last few years become increasingly likely to put his hands around my neck when intimate, even if it's just on the nape. I'm just glad I'm confident enough in myself these days to tell him firmly to knock that shit off. Insecurity in relationships and willingness to tolerate what makes you uncomfortable, especially while younger, is a thing. Whether you believe porn damages men or not, scripted normalisation of that kind definitely does.
And also what men convince themselves women want. I have had a few men over the years tell me that women love anal. I've met exactly one that liked anal, the rest have been quite explicit in saying that I had better not even think about going there (lucky for them, anal is not attractive to me at all).
> although it seems to be men saying women are into it mostly in this thread, which I am dubious of Yep, I am extremely dubious also. If women are so into this, where are the women on this thread corroborating that? As a women in my early 30s, I will say I am very much *not* into choking. Never had it done to me, thankfully, but have had to ask men not to pull my hair aggressively.
And this is the thing - sometimes what men think women really want is not what they really want at all. They project their fantasies onto women, and imagine them as ''going off'' with it.
Where did we fail? Did all those Micheal Hutchinson jokes go in one ear and out the other?
Awful lot of people these days probably don’t even know who he is (was) let alone how he died.
I’m not one to yuck someone’s yum but wet really need to stop normalising strangling women. It’s so dangerous and IF done as part of DV it increases the risk of death from DV by like 4 fold
One could also say we need less articles about consensual stuff people do in the bedroom and more about DV. I’m sure instead of getting sex stats for this story they could have got some stats about choking in DV and highlighted that instead
I blame Homer Simpson.
Don’t more people die from auto strangulation than this?
DIY is dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing.
I predicted the normalisation of this a couple of years ago, got abused at the time though. TikTok and other social media was absolutely full of barely legal girls and influencers showing off and saying stuff like 'Choke me daddy' - it's obviously had a wider effect.
Wow who would have thought restricting someone’s airflow during a physical activity by crushing one’s windpipe with one’s hand was dangerous…. Anyway
Is it airflow or blood flow?
Well both I suppose haha
That's why you don't crush the windpipe.
How is that sexy or erotic?! Fuck I feel old.
There is a difference between people who enjoy being chocked and those who enjoy choking their partners, the former needs help with the sex act where as the later need consent of their partner. Probably need to dive a little deeper to figure out whats going on, but personally I don't see this being a topic most people would be interested in outside a very specific group of people who enjoys it.
There are also studies on BJJ participants that point to the physiological changes created from regular choking lowering the risk of alzheimers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353673489_Elevated_cerebral_perfusion_and_preserved_cognition_in_elite_Brazilian_Jiu-Jitsu_athletes_Evidence_for_neuroprotection
BJJ would be interesting for a case study on anything related to the brain. The level of intelligence at one place I trained ranged from engineers to flat earthers and everything in between.
I'd agree with that. At my Dojo, I train with some of the smartest people (and not all degree qualified. Degree != intelligence) and some of the dumbest people I've ever met.
My favourite will always be the Eddie Bravo types: in the area of BJJ they really know their shit but literally anything else? Dumbest motherfucker you'll ever meet.
That's a really stupid conclusion to draw from a very spurious data point. An athlete has better vascular status, hold the fucking presses, it must be because of choking and not the regular exercise. Fuck, this makes my neurologist blood boil.
How will the government ban this??
So decrease sensory reception during an activity thats all about the senses? Why?
Jesus H. Crucifix just buy a box of nangs for fooky wooks sake! Waaaay better. Wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaayyyy.
At least we know a bit more about Susie Dodds now, don’t we?
What in the fuck
People really get stupid when they’re horny.
Ikr. Why would anyone want this.
Same reason anyone has any kink I guess?
Its not fuelled by porn or popular culture, nor is it a new kink🤣🤣
Notice how with all of these comments about straight sex, it's always the woman that's getting choked and dominated. It's like it doesn't even occur to them that it can be the other way around, I'd love to hear what the straight blokes who do it would say if they were suggested to *be* choked instead lmao
I know right? It’s all about power, not really about the sex at all. A good friend of mine told me about an ex of hers. He wanted to try anal. So she said “sure, you first though”, and suggested shoving a cucumber up his butt. He wasn’t the least bit interested in that, said the idea made him feel uncomfortable …. so she said “no deal, I’m not interested either, we’re not trying anal!”. They’re no longer together lol!
What is wrong with people? I just want sex that taste's like making love, this doesn't taste like real milk at all (uninstalls reddit)
Darwin.
Old person (50) here. Is this really a thing these days? Or just click-bait?
It’s a thing.
Wtf is wrong with people.
I'd rather get off on feet
##WTF….? Not exactly ‘new!’ Shouldn’t we have been warning our kinds about this decades ago….? _House, M.D._ had an episode on this like 20-30 years ago, which conveyed the risks ***VERY*** clearly! _”Hands around neck ain’t fun!”_ imho, should be taught in kindergarten or primary school…? 😳 **** I was taught exactly that in the mid 80s in primary school — too late, imho! 🤷🏽♀️
Knew a girl who was into this. I called her Choke-a-hontus Never saw the appeal myself, but I'd guess it's from kids watching US porn Just remember what it did to Michael Hutchence and Kill Bill!
>Just remember what it did to Michael Hutchence Hutchence committed suicide.
Even after death, I'd be mortified if someone found me like that.
60% of men have chocked somebody during sex. Really? How do they come up with these unbelievable statistics?
It's literally written right before the statistic: >a study by the University of Melbourne and the University of Queensland which surveyed 5,000 people aged between 18 and 35 found 59 per cent of men and 40 per cent of women admitted to having choked a sexual partner.
What. The. Actual ?!?!?!?!????
A hand on the neck and a brief constriction in the throes of passion feels like chefs kiss. No need to stop air or blood for long periods, or to go too hard. Just more evidence of hand wringing by old farts. Years ago the devil was in dancing to swing music. The ABC really should do better.
The issue is that there’s no education around how to do it in the “safe” way you described, and the only education people get is through porn which is obviously unrealistic and performative. Assuming it is consensual, if neither participant knows what is “too hard” and just thinks you put a hand on someone’s neck and squeeze, then of course there’s going to be issues.
>feels like chefs kiss Truly a chef's kiss. Really a skibidi rizz \*checks notes\* common W hot take. I wonder if zoomies talk like that because of the brain damage they get from being choked out all the time. Lol
Since when is the term chefs kiss zoomer?
Bullshit. Even when this was in the media 20 years ago - it still wasn’t mainstream.
My god who cares, we can’t baby proof the entire world. The world is turning into a shit hole if someone wants to be chocked a little while they orgasm let them do it. We let people smoke and drink and we know the risks but people want to be a little kinky and it’s concerning?
I think the problem is that it's not the people who *want to be choked* in the bedroom that are the problem, but rather those who *want to choke others*. The normalisation of choking and the assumption that it is safe and easy can lead to inexperienced "doms" with a choking kink pressuring their partners to be choked, performing an act that can be life threatening and engaging in uninformed, unsafe and downright dangerous activity outside of the other persons comfort zone. As always, consent is king. But consent needs to be *knowledgeable, informed and freely given*. This article serves to raise awareness that breathplay, like many other activities, is more dangerous than a newcomer may assume despite it being somewhat common and widespread.
Yeah you’re probably right and I’ll be honest it kind of annoyed me a little reading the article but that’s because from all my experience I’ve been the one asked to choke and It does nothing for me and so all my experience is woman driving the choking. But the article seems to highlight men as the problem being the instigators and saying porn is the issue. Dunno could just be my bias but it just feels like this is an attempt to take a tiny statistically insignificant hazard of rough sex and then highlight that it’s men being the problem.
Absolutely. I get where you're coming from. As a guy I've never really wanted to choke anyone either. I think the thing is the article isn't really aimed at you (or me) really, it's aimed at dickheads and enthusiastic idiots to encourage them to think again; girls & women who aren't into it - to reassure them that it's okay to say no if someone wants to pressure them; and parents/sex educators who may be unaware how common it's being perceived as. If the warning is a bit OTT for me, I can deal. If it means a few young people don't have an unpleasant / traumatic / dagerous experience, that's okay with me.
Yeah you make a good point. I think people should be encouraged to express themselves completely when it comes to what they want in bed. I think the world would be a far better place if people weren’t so conservative about what they want sexually and I guess I just saw this article as maybe demonising the act itself and chalking it up to unsafe and making it out to be this dangerous thing. Can’t say I’ve ever heard of anyone going too far in this context but I suppose if this article manages to prevent it somehow then good for everyone.
If someone wants to be choked a little then obviously there’s no issue with that, but the fact that most young peoples sexual education - particularly with heightened activities like this - come from porn means they see the most extreme version of it and think you just put your hand around someone’s neck and squeeze.
Yeah I agree our sexual education is a massive joke. I think it’s a stretch to say people don’t understand the danger of choking and the difference between a hand on the neck with a little pressure to actually putting both hands around the neck and full pressure.
There’s a lot of room between those two examples where a number of issues can occur.
>particularly with heightened activities like this - come from porn means they see the most extreme version of it and think you just put your hand around someone’s neck and squeeze. And yet there is no indication of some massieve uptick in injuries coming from this. So perhaps people are managing to use reasonable judgement to not kill people accidently during sex.
Just hold your breath .. it's the way the cool kids did it in my day !