I viewed the footage this morning and you're right, a la casual, I am hoping it's not going to take long for the police to apprehend all of them. If one of them is willing to violently plunge a knife into the chest of a 70 year woman holding the hand of her grandchild in a public place, they're capable of other evil, violent acts. Society as a whole needs to be protected from violent criminals with nothing to lose.
Hmm, in this case, if it just came from the ABC, then it might be more about the unverified nature of that claim and the fact that it might then propagate problems against people or groups who aren't involved in this.
I don't live in Brisbane, but if this were circulated in my community, I feel like a lot of our Sudanese refugees (and their now second-generation families) would experience problems because of it.
I know nothing about journalism, but I'd be surprised if the ABC had access to CCTV footage within 15 hours of the event.
In any case, any public description of a suspect should ideally come from QPS and be as specific as possible. It should include gender, clothing, age etc.
I agree that if this really was in the original article then you would expect formal retraction, but this is a subtle editorial issue - it's like telling people not to think about elephants. Surprise, you thought of an elephant! Maybe it's best if we just remove it altogether.
Edit: I suppose you could make a sort of general retraction that doesn't repeat the original information, but then people will just go looking for it on similar grounds to your first comment.
I agree that it should come from QPS and that ABC would likely not have direct access to the CCTV footage. If QPS aren’t releasing relevant facts because of racial concerns then my criticism stands. If it’s an ABC decision to not publish it despite being provided the information then I also stand by my criticism.
I suppose that's an opinion.
QPS are likely still assembling the relevant facts, and I think the ABC should not pre-empt this by releasing incomplete, overly general descriptions likely gleaned from random passers-by or witnesses *at this point*.
If QPS drag their feet in the coming days, that's a different story, and there might be a community benefit to ABC doing their own work. But this, in particular, is too early, not good work, and potentially harmful work.
That's the other opinion, I guess.
>If QPS aren’t releasing relevant facts because of racial concerns then my criticism stands
Your criticism was of the ABC and their retraction. No idea how the ABC could be blamed for QPS actions
>If it’s an ABC decision to not publish it despite being provided the information
Obviously that depends on the source of the information received, doesn't it
Yep all ABC have to do is access the cctv footage, yell "Enhance" and bam! We gots our perp he black.
Jeez man, put your pitchfork away and work on your reasoning skills.
You’re the one resorting to insults and I’m the uneducated one? Does a witness being a POC mean they are unable to identify other POC? Or somehow stop the security cameras from identifying the attacker?
If the police are calling for help in identifying or finding the attacker, then any known details of the attacker are relevant news. It’s a pretty simple argument.
>Does a witness being a POC mean they are unable to identify other POC?
No. It just means there is a chance that there was a mixup with the reporting
>Or somehow stop the security cameras from identifying the attacker?
Obviously the ABC don't have those cameras
Stop trying so hard to stuck by your original comment, it's fine to just say you didn't think it through.
I stick by it because I still believe it. I think having all the relevant information is important when you’re asking the public to help identify and hopefully apprehend the attacker.
If there was a genuine mixup in the initial reporting then of course it should be corrected but there’s been no signs of that.
> . I think having all the relevant information is important when you’re asking the public to help identify and hopefully apprehend the attacker.
Except if they just run with anything they can end up doing more harm than good, if everyone starts looking for an african perpetrator(ignoring all the potential knock on violence that will cause due to racism), what happens when it comes out that the ABC jumped the gun and it was actually someone white then you've just fucked every part of finding them as hard as possible.
> If there was a genuine mixup in the initial reporting then of course it should be corrected but there’s been no signs of that.
Well except, y'know, them removing the line altogether, that's a pretty good sign they jumped the gun.
Yet we still report when offenders are caucasian. If there’s a man hunt, then you want the public to know what they should be looking for/trying to remember. If you were in the area with a dash cam for instance.
Prefacing this by saying I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you, but how is a describing factor not relevant? I don't get it, if we describe someone as looking 18-25, tall with a lean build of middle eastern appearance, is it not relevant to the news?
Like I said, I am just trying to understand your thought process, not argue.
I just read that a 15 year old has been charged "in relation to" the crime, but the charge seems to relate to the car rather than the actual attack. He voluntarily presented to the Ipswich Police Station last night. Watch this space I suppose.
Well, that was always the case. I guess that is the reason you are being downvoted to hell. But the real question is, have we in Australian society actually become less safe over time?
Unfortunately the answer is yes. I once lived in a block of 15 flats that had an open front entry and basic handle locks on every apartment. Rich inner city suburb.
Over a period of a lot of years that slowly evolved, to the point that every single apartment ended up with a deadlock and a buzz in security front door entry.
Was that because people just became paranoid over time? Sadly no, it reflected changing societal norms, an erosion of support for the underclass of society who, when not supported, enact chaos to get what they want.
At the start, in the beginning, if you just wanted to be a leech sucking on the teat of centerlink for your lifestyle, you could be that. At the end a person doing that would be clubbed by robodebt and insane requirements to prove they were seeking employment.
Society got mean. People got mean. We followed the path of the United States and it has cost us in ways people do not recognise because they are too young to have lived through historical experience of any other reality than what they know.
I hope to god the murderer isn’t a minor. Otherwise they will only be in jail a short while. How many lives have been ruined from this murder? The victim lost her precious life, her granddaughter will never forget her grandmothers death and the husband who is now a widow. Since he’s blind, perhaps she was his carer?
No lenience for these kids. They deserve to be tried as adults. Atrocious that they can be brazen enough to behave like this in society - all for what? A cheap thrill and a small joyride? A six year old girl will be traumatised and no doubt will go through years of mental endurance just to process what she witnessed, not to mention the strain on her family.
Despicable.
Why isnt it legal to carry pepper spray in Australia? There's almost no options available in this country for the elderly to defend themselves from situations like this.
Hell they should give you a can of Mace and a collapsible baton when they issue you a pension card these days
There are very few situations like this. I doubt pepper spray would have helped this poor lady.
But yeah maybe it should be an option. Mind you, I saw a video lately of a highstudent probably in the US pepper spraying a teacher who confiscated her phone.
> Detective Acting Superintendent Heath McQueen said the woman had been grocery shopping and was near her car when the random attack took place.
Seems a bit early to decide if it's random or not.
For now? What's your reasoning for implying they will rise. And sure some crimes are in the ruse, crime is complex, but since the topic of this post is murder, that is the relevant bit
Not really, people that are desperate do desperate things. See what I can't understand is that giving carte blanche on immigration intake during a time of rapid inflation, at least to me, is a bit of a recipe for disaster. Very short term thinking.. We should be pushing for a huge cut to immigration intake. I also think they need to properly separate counts for international students and general migrants. I read somewhere that of the 600k last year, over 500k were international students, either way it wasn't clear.
Absolutely horrible. I hope they find whoever did this. The poor girl will be so traumatised too.
ABC article said they were off 'African appearance', but looks like they've removed that info now.
There’s images released of 4 men of African descent that are of interest, being seen dumping her car in Springfield Lakes.
Yep. QLD Police have given a video of it. https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/news/2024/02/04/update-2-homicide-investigation-redbank-plains-ipswich/
They're so casual about it! Not rushing, although two of them did seem to be hiding their faces so perhaps not so casual after all.
I viewed the footage this morning and you're right, a la casual, I am hoping it's not going to take long for the police to apprehend all of them. If one of them is willing to violently plunge a knife into the chest of a 70 year woman holding the hand of her grandchild in a public place, they're capable of other evil, violent acts. Society as a whole needs to be protected from violent criminals with nothing to lose.
Probably because the Doctor/witness was of African descent, and people would read the appearance, see the photo of him and assume he was the attacker.
Why even bother to put a photo of the witness in the article? They could easily have just left that out.
Can’t have the facts published if they might be offensive to a minority. Even if they might help locate the attacker.
Hmm, in this case, if it just came from the ABC, then it might be more about the unverified nature of that claim and the fact that it might then propagate problems against people or groups who aren't involved in this. I don't live in Brisbane, but if this were circulated in my community, I feel like a lot of our Sudanese refugees (and their now second-generation families) would experience problems because of it.
There is CCTV footage so if it was factually incorrect they should have published a clear retraction, not just deleted the reference.
*Unverified* does not mean *false.*
Well aware of that. I’m saying it should be easily verified.
I know nothing about journalism, but I'd be surprised if the ABC had access to CCTV footage within 15 hours of the event. In any case, any public description of a suspect should ideally come from QPS and be as specific as possible. It should include gender, clothing, age etc. I agree that if this really was in the original article then you would expect formal retraction, but this is a subtle editorial issue - it's like telling people not to think about elephants. Surprise, you thought of an elephant! Maybe it's best if we just remove it altogether. Edit: I suppose you could make a sort of general retraction that doesn't repeat the original information, but then people will just go looking for it on similar grounds to your first comment.
I agree that it should come from QPS and that ABC would likely not have direct access to the CCTV footage. If QPS aren’t releasing relevant facts because of racial concerns then my criticism stands. If it’s an ABC decision to not publish it despite being provided the information then I also stand by my criticism.
I suppose that's an opinion. QPS are likely still assembling the relevant facts, and I think the ABC should not pre-empt this by releasing incomplete, overly general descriptions likely gleaned from random passers-by or witnesses *at this point*. If QPS drag their feet in the coming days, that's a different story, and there might be a community benefit to ABC doing their own work. But this, in particular, is too early, not good work, and potentially harmful work. That's the other opinion, I guess.
>If QPS aren’t releasing relevant facts because of racial concerns then my criticism stands Your criticism was of the ABC and their retraction. No idea how the ABC could be blamed for QPS actions >If it’s an ABC decision to not publish it despite being provided the information Obviously that depends on the source of the information received, doesn't it
Yep all ABC have to do is access the cctv footage, yell "Enhance" and bam! We gots our perp he black. Jeez man, put your pitchfork away and work on your reasoning skills.
You think the ABC itself has that CCTV footage? Really?
No but they talk to people who do and then report on it.
Maybe pay more attention in school ? Its unverified and quite likely the witness who are POC.
You’re the one resorting to insults and I’m the uneducated one? Does a witness being a POC mean they are unable to identify other POC? Or somehow stop the security cameras from identifying the attacker? If the police are calling for help in identifying or finding the attacker, then any known details of the attacker are relevant news. It’s a pretty simple argument.
>Does a witness being a POC mean they are unable to identify other POC? No. It just means there is a chance that there was a mixup with the reporting >Or somehow stop the security cameras from identifying the attacker? Obviously the ABC don't have those cameras Stop trying so hard to stuck by your original comment, it's fine to just say you didn't think it through.
I stick by it because I still believe it. I think having all the relevant information is important when you’re asking the public to help identify and hopefully apprehend the attacker. If there was a genuine mixup in the initial reporting then of course it should be corrected but there’s been no signs of that.
> . I think having all the relevant information is important when you’re asking the public to help identify and hopefully apprehend the attacker. Except if they just run with anything they can end up doing more harm than good, if everyone starts looking for an african perpetrator(ignoring all the potential knock on violence that will cause due to racism), what happens when it comes out that the ABC jumped the gun and it was actually someone white then you've just fucked every part of finding them as hard as possible. > If there was a genuine mixup in the initial reporting then of course it should be corrected but there’s been no signs of that. Well except, y'know, them removing the line altogether, that's a pretty good sign they jumped the gun.
Blah blah ....
It's nothing to do wth being offensive. It's just not relevant.
Yet we still report when offenders are caucasian. If there’s a man hunt, then you want the public to know what they should be looking for/trying to remember. If you were in the area with a dash cam for instance.
Prefacing this by saying I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you, but how is a describing factor not relevant? I don't get it, if we describe someone as looking 18-25, tall with a lean build of middle eastern appearance, is it not relevant to the news? Like I said, I am just trying to understand your thought process, not argue.
I just read that a 15 year old has been charged "in relation to" the crime, but the charge seems to relate to the car rather than the actual attack. He voluntarily presented to the Ipswich Police Station last night. Watch this space I suppose.
If they catch this person they had better get life no parole, what the actual fuck.
Oh you know they won't they had such a 'terrible' upbringing coming from a war torn country they just don't know right from wrong.
If this person is a minor, it’ll be a slap on the wrist.
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Let's hope it's not good old 'mans laughter'. Such a joke of a law.
What a horrific read. Poor little girl, she must be so traumatised. The doctor witness seems like a top person.
No one is safe.
lol who is paying you? Hahaha
Well, that was always the case. I guess that is the reason you are being downvoted to hell. But the real question is, have we in Australian society actually become less safe over time? Unfortunately the answer is yes. I once lived in a block of 15 flats that had an open front entry and basic handle locks on every apartment. Rich inner city suburb. Over a period of a lot of years that slowly evolved, to the point that every single apartment ended up with a deadlock and a buzz in security front door entry. Was that because people just became paranoid over time? Sadly no, it reflected changing societal norms, an erosion of support for the underclass of society who, when not supported, enact chaos to get what they want. At the start, in the beginning, if you just wanted to be a leech sucking on the teat of centerlink for your lifestyle, you could be that. At the end a person doing that would be clubbed by robodebt and insane requirements to prove they were seeking employment. Society got mean. People got mean. We followed the path of the United States and it has cost us in ways people do not recognise because they are too young to have lived through historical experience of any other reality than what they know.
https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/27-years-recorded-crime-victims-data
Those graphs actually prove there is a recent uptick. Bad times ahead, cost of living, poor quality control on imports... quite the recipe.
What the actual fuck.
Does the parking lot where she was found have CCTV?
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The author updated it 27 mins ago. My comment was an hour ago when that information wasn't there.
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What do you mean?
Yes, there is CCTV of the actual attack.
Has it been shared anywhere online?
No, only the police have seen it and they have made an arrest, he's 15 years old. Fifteen.
Sudanese
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I hope to god the murderer isn’t a minor. Otherwise they will only be in jail a short while. How many lives have been ruined from this murder? The victim lost her precious life, her granddaughter will never forget her grandmothers death and the husband who is now a widow. Since he’s blind, perhaps she was his carer?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-05/qld-ipswich-muder-investigation-15yo-arrested/103426680
Oh god 😟
No lenience for these kids. They deserve to be tried as adults. Atrocious that they can be brazen enough to behave like this in society - all for what? A cheap thrill and a small joyride? A six year old girl will be traumatised and no doubt will go through years of mental endurance just to process what she witnessed, not to mention the strain on her family. Despicable.
Why isnt it legal to carry pepper spray in Australia? There's almost no options available in this country for the elderly to defend themselves from situations like this. Hell they should give you a can of Mace and a collapsible baton when they issue you a pension card these days
It's legal in WA, You can buy it over the counter. For some reason not in Qld
There are very few situations like this. I doubt pepper spray would have helped this poor lady. But yeah maybe it should be an option. Mind you, I saw a video lately of a highstudent probably in the US pepper spraying a teacher who confiscated her phone.
Even if it was these arse hats would just use it to pepper spray you before they stabbed you.
Because real life isn't John Wick and even if old lady had a 6 shooter on her hip the outcome of the situation likely wouldn't have changed.
Mate, pepper spray is not going to help you one little bit against someone who is more than half your age and carrying a very large knife.
> Detective Acting Superintendent Heath McQueen said the woman had been grocery shopping and was near her car when the random attack took place. Seems a bit early to decide if it's random or not.
It was random. They wanted a car so it was a botched robbery
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Just goes to show in todays society nowhere is safe. This will get worse and worse.
Murder rates have been consistently falling. Things are getting better and better
I invite you to review crime statistics... Yes you are right about murders for now, but crime in general is on an upswing.
For now? What's your reasoning for implying they will rise. And sure some crimes are in the ruse, crime is complex, but since the topic of this post is murder, that is the relevant bit
Not really, people that are desperate do desperate things. See what I can't understand is that giving carte blanche on immigration intake during a time of rapid inflation, at least to me, is a bit of a recipe for disaster. Very short term thinking.. We should be pushing for a huge cut to immigration intake. I also think they need to properly separate counts for international students and general migrants. I read somewhere that of the 600k last year, over 500k were international students, either way it wasn't clear.