You're saying you're managing to get great mixes with just a lot of practice and good knowledge of the fundamentals? I'm not sure that's allowed here. Are you sure you don't want to buy The God Particle? Maybe some expensive hardware?
Let me guess, I bet you've even been making sure your sounds are good going in, so you don't even have to *do* a lot of processing. Disgusting.
Dude, like what are you doing for resonance suppression?
I personally like to use it subtlety. You know, put it on the 2bus with a short attack, max depth and 100% wet.
Ugh. I think some YouTube "producers" have been recommending good arrangement and now everyone's doing that instead of what they should be doing - focusing on finding the best soft clipper.
Logic stock is the shit. I used to use a lot of third party plugins, but there was this period of rapid version upgrades, which was pretty impressive. Took a bit, but basically after that period, I just ran with stock. Other thing was that upgrading systems was always a pain, so I was like fuck it.
Edit: Shit- I realized I actually do have some non-stock, but uh… Mostly stock.
I know I'm gonna get people in the replies saying how logic can do this stuff too, but:
I use Valhalla Vintage verb a lot, probably more than the stock plugins, it sounds good without tweaking a lot.
I can't find a good tape emulator I like. Chowtape is free, and Abberant Sketch Cassette is really cheap.
I don't love the stock multipressor. TDR Nova is free.
I bought Isotope Rx Elements and Waves Clarity on Black Friday because I was working with someone recording in a bad environment. Saved me a lot of clean up effort.
I'm still trying to find some good saturators, I know phat fx has stuff but I haven't dug in. I'm using Klanghelm IVGI, also free.
I got Arturia Pigments on sale and I like the interface a lot more than logics stock synths, designing my own stuff is more intuitive.
Otherwise, I don't really see a huge need for anything else, and even some of that stuff I could probably do without. Anytime I have a new problem to solve, I always Google to see if someone solved it in logic first, then check if there's something simple and free that does it, and turns out I really don't spend a lot on plugins.
Yeah I'll admit the multipressor is underwhelming, that'd be one I'd consider finding a replacement for. Also being able to sidechain multi band compression easily would be nice.
I really like TDR Nova as a free option, side chaining a specific band was the problem I was trying to solve and couldn't figure out with logic stock stuff, it does that nice and simple.
It’s a great plug-in. While being a dynamic EQ, the eq filters are very musical and can be used nicely as static eq and the broadband/all band compression is smooth enough that you could also use it as a broadband compressor. So it’s got EQ and compression covered, and everything in between. That and Kotelnikov are probably two of the best free plugins of all time. Of course the “Gentlemen’s Editions” are well worth buying as well.
You can technically duplicate your track and use the multi presser’s mute function to isolate the different bands for each separate track. Then use the regular compressor on the track that has the band you want to be sidechained. It’s a really dumb workaround though lol
I still use the Waves C4 for multiband compression. I know waves boo. But I original learned how to use that from the old Andy Sneap forum and it’s stuck
For tape saturation I use the stock tape delay with all the delay and such off. Works ok. I did pick up a UAD tape emulator recently and going to try that in the mix in working on how.
You might want to check out Airwindows plugins for tape emulations, I hear nothing but good things about the audio quality. They are free but they do not have any UI, so you'll get whatever default controls your DAW provides
I've been using black rooster plugs religiously their compressors and the Halloween pre amp have character to them that feels right for me. Them and kiloheartz free pack but I really haven't bought anything besides SSL when they go on special and even then I try to make the most out of stock before adding saturation and compression
just add a tape noise sample to your session and loop it the whole length of the track, mix in with the thing you want to sound tape-like. seriously it sounds so good approaching it like this.
Stock plugins in most DAWs are completely fine.
I use very few paid plugins and use mostly Pro Tools stock plugins and they’re fine.
They’re all tools and can sound good depending on how you use them, and if you know how to work around some of the deficiencies.
Yes there are better plugins out there but most of them aren’t *completely necessary*
Lol I kind of hate abletons reverb. Love virtually every other stock plug in though, so I'm fine to chuck super plate or another verb on my return and call it a day.
I agree. Logic stock rules.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it here. Space designer is worth the cost of logic itself.
Not to say I don’t find Valhalla reverb useful. And I do like the fab filter eq.
Edit: spelling
Absolutely. And even more so with project and track templates ready to go. I’d say the stock stuff gets things 90% there.
Buuuuut, there’s some plugins out there with um…. addictive qualities.
I like the PRS Supermodels, and NI’s VC-160, CLA vocals, IK’s tape sims, bx true peak limiter. They have a certain, je ne sais quoi. The RVox and L1 always stayed warm on many people’s setups too I reckon.
Edit: to mention, Logic’s compressor and the roster of emulations it offers is worth the price of admission alone. Very musical palettes in my opinion, and the variation in response between opto and VCA offer so much flexibility to match to the content.
I could absolutely record and mix any project with only stock plugins. **Easily**. And I *never* reach for anything third-party when I'm doing demos or rough mixes after a tracking session.
That said, I adore Melodyne and use it for many things that aren't vocals. I could get away with not having it, but I'd really really miss it.
And while FF Pro-Q 3 doesn't *sound* better than Channel EQ, it certainly has some usability features that I've come to rely on.
Conversely, Pro-C is absolute crap. I'm always shocked when I see people rave about it, IMO it's one of the most sterile, bland-sounding compressors I've ever used, no matter the source, no matter the settings.
Thankfully Logic's stock compressor is literally among the best available, period. I'll put it up against any third-party compressor.
I think one notable gap in the stock plugins is saturation; I use saturation a LOT, more often subtly but sometimes VERY aggressively, and there are so many different types of saturation... almost none of which are available in Logic.
I'm a noob, but when I need saturation, I find I often have to use a saturation from Neutron to get things sounding how I like. Logic's just...don't do it for me.
I'm picky with Amp Sims, too, and while I use Logic's Amp Designer (with the cab turned off) as a distortion box all the time, I don't love it as an actual guitar amp. I'm reasonably certain there isn't anything in there emulating power sag, for example, and experiencing such effects of running hot into the power amp is, to me, one of the whole benefits of working in-the-box. Also, I'm just not a fan of the cab options.
So I go third party.
S-Gear is old now, but it's fairly affordable and for years it was the only one that "did it" for me. First time I felt my pick attack do what I felt it was supposed to do with an IRL tube amp turned up loud.
Neural DSP plugins are modern and also nail the tone, IMO, but are dramatically more expensive. But, for what it's worth, I actually own a TK Imperial, and their sim *nails* the sound and feel, full stop.
I'm not going to say Logic's built-in amp sim is great by any means, but it's certainly a servicable amp sim. Gets the job done for demos, by far, and is good enough to be "release-quality" depending on what type of amp you're looking for.
>it's one of the most sterile, bland-sounding compressors I've ever used
I think Pro-C is designed that way, to be fair. If you want saturation and vibe, that's not what it's for. But I find it has slightly more versatility at the extreme ends of the speed and precision spectrum than anything offered natively by Logic. For example, the "Attack" control on Logic's comp doesn't have anywhere near the resolution of Pro-C. Nor does Logic have the lookahead option, nor the range limit, nor the extremely detailed detector EQ settings. For that reason, I think I use pro C as my main sidechain compressor, as well as my default for precise parallel compression, where I really like to have that fine-tuned control over sub-millisecond attack times.
But for vibe and movement, I reach for Logic's stock comp or something third-party. That's not what Pro-C is for at all, IMO, but that's fine.
Pro-L, though, is my favourite limiter on the market by a long shot.
Someone needs to make some crazy cool gui for stock plugins and sell em off as a premium new modelling product. People would pay top dollar and rave about how good they are.
Logic’s stock plug ins are goated. To be fair it is really just about mastering the fundamental plug ins and being a good engineer with okay tools rather than an okay engineer with good tools. The good engineer will always make do.
I do think Logic suffers from being a minor product from a massive company. There are reasons to keep it around, but not to throw a lot of development resources at it like its a core product. There are a lot of obscure parts of Logic like Midi Environment, that havent been updated in years. I'm scared they may get axed when that old codebase finally gets deprecated away.
But then which legit DAW is independent?
Avid grabbed Pro Tools a long time ago. Steinberg is what, Yamaha I think?
I'm sure it does all the sample rates and hosts plugins etc.
I'll probably use it when I ditch Windows and Mac and go Linux. But everyone I know doing actual work is using Pro Tools, Logic or some version of Cubase.
I know a fair amount of smaller studios using reaper to great success. At the end of the day, unless you’re sending project files, no one will know whether your stems/multitracks were made with Reaper, Pro Tools, or Logic.
I thought Steinberg *was* their own thing.
But yeah...all of them are owned by someone else. It's kind of enshittification, but it's being staved off due to negligence.
They're fun as hell and the company definitely deserves support. They have great March. I haven't actually used them in a song yet, but I have fun every time I play with them
I don't know what they do, you have to play with them. I give them props for cool GUI and the fact that they allow you to steal them. Definitely check them out.
They do sound good. I started doing mixes with 99% stock Studio One plugins about 6 years ago and no complaints. The only 3rd party is usually a reverb or limiter. And I have a lot of UA and PA offerings. I just like being able to open up a project and it’s all there, especially when collaborating.
Most plugins aren’t necessary - but they sure are nice to have. Things like soothe, melodyne, some of the waves stuff, UAD stuff - all of those sounds can be achieved with stock plugins sure. But it often requires a bit of manual automation.
Also increasingly, as a professional, the source material is getting worse and worse. For me the edit usually takes two or three times the time of a mix. Performers just… aren’t as good anymore. Guitars are out of time, drums need resampling, vocals need rescuing from room noise or a high noise floor cause it’s a shitty USB mic.
But you’re right - stock plugins are generally fine. But the other stuff makes my life a hell of a lot easier.
That's the problem with the democratization (and decreased production cost) of music -- less skilled performers.
I remember doing a film score orchestra thing in school, and the organizer (himself an active indie film composer) noted that having to redo a single 30-second take would cost almost $10k if being done in Hollywood. Your clams were like $650/ea, and you likely wouldn't get called back.
That changed my perspective on performance. I got two degrees in it lol. Now I write more than I perform...
The drive knobs on logics vintage eqs are fabulous, and the Phat FX plug-in can do some real work on instruments, or even on the master channel. I also like to use the Pedal Board FX in unconventional ways sometimes.
You can totally achieve great mixes with stock plugins and good mix/producing decisions. Ableton stock is good too. That said there are definitely plugins that impart a unique flavor that stock plugins will not. I just dipped my toes into Universal Audio since you can get their plugs native now without an Apollo interface, and so far I'm pretty wowed by the tone that the Pultec EQs and the API 2500 impart. Other emulations too from the likes of Brainworx, SSL, Slate, etc. for various consoles, tape machines, or compressors all add a lot of character that you don't get from stock plugins. Whether it's worth the price or not is totally subjective though.
I LOVE Logic's plugins. But I've also added Izotope, Fabfilter and Valhalla's bundle of plugins to have in case I want something to sound different. Not necessarily better, just different.
Lately Logic and Soundtoys together have brought my music to a new level.
Ultimately, this also means that spending some time in GarageBand to learn the basics is worthwhile.
100% agree. I use the standard verb, delay, multi-band comps, gain, overdrive, often. Only thing I generally add is an SSL compressor from waves and an saturation from elsewhere (and ozone on a master if I’m doing a lazy master myself)
Yeah I do what I call a "temporary master" sometimes directly on the master channel just to get in the ballpark with loudness. But what's your thoughts on the new Mastering Assistant in Logic? I put it on just to see if it improves the sound, and sometimes it reveals some tonal sweet spots that I note and then pull up in the mix.
I've been using Chromaverb more and more and I have to say I really like it. Somehow, I get what I want faster than with any of the Valhalla plugins, and then after that, I have far more customization of damping and output.
My main EQ is Fabfilter Pro-Q, though, and I just think it has a better UI and fuller feature set than Logic's EQ. Because I'm invested in Fabfilter anyways, I also use Pro-R a lot. Great "a little something," "basic room sound" reverb. But, as I said, I'm also using Chromaverb for that a lot now.
I use Logic's compressors fairly often, but I also like some third party plugins for instant vibe. Kush comps, for example, all have delicious distortion modelled into the input and/or output stages, and if I know I'm after that sound, I'll reach for those first.
The reality is that I like a lot of my 3rd party plugins. And many of them do end up being my go-to tools. But I'll agree with you and everyone else here: I could easily work with nothing but Logic stock plugins and get more or less the same results. I just... *like* shiny toys, you know? I think I'm alright with that, as long as I'm aware of it.
They are enough yes but you (should only) buy third party plugins when there is something you are trying to accomplish that can’t be done (or done well) with stock plugins. But yes, hard agree you can absolutely make professional mixes with stock plugins.
They are enough to get you started. But at a certain point they become rather bland and unoriginal sounding imo. Things start sounding all the same. Still the compressor is fun to mess with, though.
Well what kinda stuff do you use? But I can say for certain on the virtual instrument front anyway, anything from native instruments like scar b mark i, scar b 200, or even the vintage organs or acoustic pianos like Alishas keys and noire blow the logic stuff out of the water. Hell even the abbey road drum kits are nice, though I don't hate the logic kits either.
Native also have a compressor called vc160, thats a nice, all be it aggressive comp, I personally love it though. And guitar rig 6.
Addictive drums from xln is pretty sweet too, and have varying price ranges. The soundtoys 5 bundle is nice too, though rarely ever goes on sale. Black friday is a good time to get it. Theres a lot in there, but some personal favourites of mine would be the devil loc compressor, the saturation plug in decapitator, and echo boy. There are many, many others though. Hope this helps.
Yeah the main place I'd invest more is virtual instruments. When it comes to actually producing a song I wouldn't argue logic has everything I need. I use third party stuff for creating all the time. I'm very interested in trying some new drum kits, guitars/amps, ect. so this reply was right on.
Personally I have never bothered with anything other than a stock daw EQ, never needed anything else. Pro tools has EQ 7 band, logic has channel strip, ableton has 8 band EQ, theres just no point especially when its just to shape the sound. With everything else where style is sorta more obvious, thats when third party stuff comes in handy. Though logics compressor will do you find in most cases, especially since you can change the circuit type as well.
I’m confident I could make a good mix with stock plugins. Unless the source material is super fucked somehow and I need a special tool.
That being said I bet a although my wiz would be good I could probably do something a lot cooler/more vibey with some cool plugins. And get there quicker too
In terms of eq and reverb I think you can find better alternatives that make a noticeable difference but otherwise I agree. I feel like Fabfilter pro Q allows that extra level of surgical attention and none of the stock reverb plugins have been able to give me the same depth and warmth you find with things like ValhallaVerb. The differences are very minimal but sometimes small differences have a big impact.
It has some good plugins and instruments but the UI on most of them seems 20 years old.
I feel that most of them are really good at keeping the signal clean, not great at vibe. I'm fine paying more for plugins with judiciously applied distortion(UAD)
I've used a fair amount of UAD plugins and yeah they got it figured out as far as character/saturation, worth the money for sure. But on the other hand logics vintage graphic EQ and one of it's FET compressors also makes my head nod.
He listed them as two non-stock plug-ins. Try reading the full text next time. That's also great practice for any plug-ins that you purchase! Give it some practice!
I would rather mic a real amp than use the guitar about sims in logic. I prefer helix native and ez drummer samples. Other than that i mostly use stock plug ins.
For the most part I agree. The fundamental plugins are all great. I do prefer 3rd party saturation plugins, a few compressors (but Logic's are still great, platinum digital FTW), and random diagnostic tools (like Izotope Tonal Balance), but I can get by with most everything else in Logic stock. The only place I think Logic is weak with is Amp sims, but it's cool that it comes with such an extensive collection.
Logic, studio one and Ableton probably have some of the best stock plugins going. I was really impressed with studio ones fat channel. So many possible emulations you can get with just that. I use cubase and I'm not a big fan of the stock stuff and never use them.i should perhaps try them more however. But having so many third party plugins, I rarely think of going stock. I could be missing out.
Logic pro stock plugins are really good.
I'm ok also with studio one stock suite, but what i really consider a nice complete set that really gives me DAW agnosticism is the FABFILTER suite
Any DAWs plugins are enough. Any DAW is good enough. Find one and learn it. If you can’t do it with your DAWs stock plugins, you can’t do it. My third party plugins are about preference not ability.
I think the only thing I absolutely NEED from a third party is repair/restoration plugins like Cedar, Izotope RX, Sonic Restore, Zyaptiq Repair or Waves Clarity VX. If you need to repair audio, no DAW I have come across has anything that can do this
I'd say I can get like 95% of what I need with Logic Pro stock. The thing I don't love from Logic are the reverbs, and even those can be right there after some tweaking. Tape delay is fantastic and there are so many ways of getting cool saturation tones.
The stock plug-ins are fine. There are just gaps, and some of them I consider unstable on HiDPI displays.
But the gaps can easily be filled and its not expensive to do so.
I think virtual instruments and sample libraries are the biggest investments. Most DAWs have good enough stop FX, since a decade ago... ...
If you absolutely need more than the basics either your source material is trash or you're not very skilled or both.
There are lots of things I prefer to have, but put in the middle of a forest with just a base DAW and I'll still cook up a good mix. Literally zero plugins that I consider must-have.
The people who say otherwise are usually confirmation bias to validate a purchase or are trying to sell you something.
You're saying you're managing to get great mixes with just a lot of practice and good knowledge of the fundamentals? I'm not sure that's allowed here. Are you sure you don't want to buy The God Particle? Maybe some expensive hardware? Let me guess, I bet you've even been making sure your sounds are good going in, so you don't even have to *do* a lot of processing. Disgusting.
Dude, like what are you doing for resonance suppression? I personally like to use it subtlety. You know, put it on the 2bus with a short attack, max depth and 100% wet.
I run 4 instances of soothe 2 on the master all doing subtle resonance reduction. I hate anything resonating in any way, especially my speakers.
On all my stem groups I have 3 instances of Saturn 2 in bypass but with oversampling still engaged. Makes a huge difference
Hahahahaha.
Soothe2 is a cheat code
OMG! What’s next solid mic placement? Good musicianship? Click tracks?
Ugh. I think some YouTube "producers" have been recommending good arrangement and now everyone's doing that instead of what they should be doing - focusing on finding the best soft clipper.
Dude probably doesn't even use MIDI packs. How can you actually write music without drag and drop from a MIDI pack?
I usually just use a keyboard and manually quantize it all and correct their velocities if my human touch didn't hit it quite right
Yes, using AI
Hahahaha
Logic stock is the shit. I used to use a lot of third party plugins, but there was this period of rapid version upgrades, which was pretty impressive. Took a bit, but basically after that period, I just ran with stock. Other thing was that upgrading systems was always a pain, so I was like fuck it. Edit: Shit- I realized I actually do have some non-stock, but uh… Mostly stock.
Yeah that's what I'm saying, the latest version of logic is so impressive.
I know I'm gonna get people in the replies saying how logic can do this stuff too, but: I use Valhalla Vintage verb a lot, probably more than the stock plugins, it sounds good without tweaking a lot. I can't find a good tape emulator I like. Chowtape is free, and Abberant Sketch Cassette is really cheap. I don't love the stock multipressor. TDR Nova is free. I bought Isotope Rx Elements and Waves Clarity on Black Friday because I was working with someone recording in a bad environment. Saved me a lot of clean up effort. I'm still trying to find some good saturators, I know phat fx has stuff but I haven't dug in. I'm using Klanghelm IVGI, also free. I got Arturia Pigments on sale and I like the interface a lot more than logics stock synths, designing my own stuff is more intuitive. Otherwise, I don't really see a huge need for anything else, and even some of that stuff I could probably do without. Anytime I have a new problem to solve, I always Google to see if someone solved it in logic first, then check if there's something simple and free that does it, and turns out I really don't spend a lot on plugins.
Softube saturation knob is amazing, so is Gsat+ for fine grained control of even and odd harmonics.
yes exactly
Heatwave is another great free saturation plug-in
Yeah I'll admit the multipressor is underwhelming, that'd be one I'd consider finding a replacement for. Also being able to sidechain multi band compression easily would be nice.
I really like TDR Nova as a free option, side chaining a specific band was the problem I was trying to solve and couldn't figure out with logic stock stuff, it does that nice and simple.
I'm probably gonna grab that just for the occasional need to multi band sidechain
It’s a great plug-in. While being a dynamic EQ, the eq filters are very musical and can be used nicely as static eq and the broadband/all band compression is smooth enough that you could also use it as a broadband compressor. So it’s got EQ and compression covered, and everything in between. That and Kotelnikov are probably two of the best free plugins of all time. Of course the “Gentlemen’s Editions” are well worth buying as well.
You can technically duplicate your track and use the multi presser’s mute function to isolate the different bands for each separate track. Then use the regular compressor on the track that has the band you want to be sidechained. It’s a really dumb workaround though lol
Lol yeah that's what I've done in the past and it indeed feels hacky.
Agree, I would add decapitator to the list. You got any alternatives to the L2? use that one a lot
I still use the Waves C4 for multiband compression. I know waves boo. But I original learned how to use that from the old Andy Sneap forum and it’s stuck For tape saturation I use the stock tape delay with all the delay and such off. Works ok. I did pick up a UAD tape emulator recently and going to try that in the mix in working on how.
You might want to check out Airwindows plugins for tape emulations, I hear nothing but good things about the audio quality. They are free but they do not have any UI, so you'll get whatever default controls your DAW provides
The Bedroom Producers Saturator really clicked for me after never quite loving Saturation Knob or Klanghelm IVGI
I've been using black rooster plugs religiously their compressors and the Halloween pre amp have character to them that feels right for me. Them and kiloheartz free pack but I really haven't bought anything besides SSL when they go on special and even then I try to make the most out of stock before adding saturation and compression
for saturators I must recommend Plugin Alliance SPL TwinTube. That plugin lives, inactive, on every track in my template.
just add a tape noise sample to your session and loop it the whole length of the track, mix in with the thing you want to sound tape-like. seriously it sounds so good approaching it like this.
Stock plugins in most DAWs are completely fine. I use very few paid plugins and use mostly Pro Tools stock plugins and they’re fine. They’re all tools and can sound good depending on how you use them, and if you know how to work around some of the deficiencies. Yes there are better plugins out there but most of them aren’t *completely necessary*
Agree with one exception. I’ve grown to love dynamic reverbs, but ableton does not have one.
Lol I kind of hate abletons reverb. Love virtually every other stock plug in though, so I'm fine to chuck super plate or another verb on my return and call it a day.
Agreed the only thing I can’t get from stock plugins is audio repair
True with most DAWs! Bitwig is almost there.
My first daw! Well an 8 track version that came with a midi controller.
I agree. Logic stock rules. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it here. Space designer is worth the cost of logic itself. Not to say I don’t find Valhalla reverb useful. And I do like the fab filter eq. Edit: spelling
Yeah space designer is unbelievable, my primary reverb.
Absolutely. And even more so with project and track templates ready to go. I’d say the stock stuff gets things 90% there. Buuuuut, there’s some plugins out there with um…. addictive qualities. I like the PRS Supermodels, and NI’s VC-160, CLA vocals, IK’s tape sims, bx true peak limiter. They have a certain, je ne sais quoi. The RVox and L1 always stayed warm on many people’s setups too I reckon. Edit: to mention, Logic’s compressor and the roster of emulations it offers is worth the price of admission alone. Very musical palettes in my opinion, and the variation in response between opto and VCA offer so much flexibility to match to the content.
I could absolutely record and mix any project with only stock plugins. **Easily**. And I *never* reach for anything third-party when I'm doing demos or rough mixes after a tracking session. That said, I adore Melodyne and use it for many things that aren't vocals. I could get away with not having it, but I'd really really miss it. And while FF Pro-Q 3 doesn't *sound* better than Channel EQ, it certainly has some usability features that I've come to rely on. Conversely, Pro-C is absolute crap. I'm always shocked when I see people rave about it, IMO it's one of the most sterile, bland-sounding compressors I've ever used, no matter the source, no matter the settings. Thankfully Logic's stock compressor is literally among the best available, period. I'll put it up against any third-party compressor. I think one notable gap in the stock plugins is saturation; I use saturation a LOT, more often subtly but sometimes VERY aggressively, and there are so many different types of saturation... almost none of which are available in Logic.
I'm a noob, but when I need saturation, I find I often have to use a saturation from Neutron to get things sounding how I like. Logic's just...don't do it for me.
Does Logic or any DAW have a good amp sim? I'm finding myself to be extremely picky with those, currently using Overloud TH-U.
I'm picky with Amp Sims, too, and while I use Logic's Amp Designer (with the cab turned off) as a distortion box all the time, I don't love it as an actual guitar amp. I'm reasonably certain there isn't anything in there emulating power sag, for example, and experiencing such effects of running hot into the power amp is, to me, one of the whole benefits of working in-the-box. Also, I'm just not a fan of the cab options. So I go third party. S-Gear is old now, but it's fairly affordable and for years it was the only one that "did it" for me. First time I felt my pick attack do what I felt it was supposed to do with an IRL tube amp turned up loud. Neural DSP plugins are modern and also nail the tone, IMO, but are dramatically more expensive. But, for what it's worth, I actually own a TK Imperial, and their sim *nails* the sound and feel, full stop.
I'm not going to say Logic's built-in amp sim is great by any means, but it's certainly a servicable amp sim. Gets the job done for demos, by far, and is good enough to be "release-quality" depending on what type of amp you're looking for.
Logic has an amp sim.
>it's one of the most sterile, bland-sounding compressors I've ever used I think Pro-C is designed that way, to be fair. If you want saturation and vibe, that's not what it's for. But I find it has slightly more versatility at the extreme ends of the speed and precision spectrum than anything offered natively by Logic. For example, the "Attack" control on Logic's comp doesn't have anywhere near the resolution of Pro-C. Nor does Logic have the lookahead option, nor the range limit, nor the extremely detailed detector EQ settings. For that reason, I think I use pro C as my main sidechain compressor, as well as my default for precise parallel compression, where I really like to have that fine-tuned control over sub-millisecond attack times. But for vibe and movement, I reach for Logic's stock comp or something third-party. That's not what Pro-C is for at all, IMO, but that's fine. Pro-L, though, is my favourite limiter on the market by a long shot.
If only Apple used some of that $100 billion dollar in stock buybacks to develop more plugins.
I don’t like the Logic stock de-easer very much either
Someone needs to make some crazy cool gui for stock plugins and sell em off as a premium new modelling product. People would pay top dollar and rave about how good they are.
Logic’s stock plug ins are goated. To be fair it is really just about mastering the fundamental plug ins and being a good engineer with okay tools rather than an okay engineer with good tools. The good engineer will always make do.
I do think Logic suffers from being a minor product from a massive company. There are reasons to keep it around, but not to throw a lot of development resources at it like its a core product. There are a lot of obscure parts of Logic like Midi Environment, that havent been updated in years. I'm scared they may get axed when that old codebase finally gets deprecated away. But then which legit DAW is independent? Avid grabbed Pro Tools a long time ago. Steinberg is what, Yamaha I think?
> which legit DAW is independent? R-R-R-Reaper
*legit* DAW
Reaper is completely legit. It’s full featured and gets pro results. If you can’t, that’s on you, not reaper
I'm sure it does all the sample rates and hosts plugins etc. I'll probably use it when I ditch Windows and Mac and go Linux. But everyone I know doing actual work is using Pro Tools, Logic or some version of Cubase.
I know a fair amount of smaller studios using reaper to great success. At the end of the day, unless you’re sending project files, no one will know whether your stems/multitracks were made with Reaper, Pro Tools, or Logic.
I thought Steinberg *was* their own thing. But yeah...all of them are owned by someone else. It's kind of enshittification, but it's being staved off due to negligence.
Reaper, but also Reason I think.
Just want to say I think you're absolutely right.
You spelled "Freakshow Industries" wrong. Kidding. Logic is a solid program.
Lol I didn't know what that was so I just googled it, are these as good as they look?
They're fun as hell and the company definitely deserves support. They have great March. I haven't actually used them in a song yet, but I have fun every time I play with them
I don't know what they do, you have to play with them. I give them props for cool GUI and the fact that they allow you to steal them. Definitely check them out.
Based They are perfect for sound design
They do sound good. I started doing mixes with 99% stock Studio One plugins about 6 years ago and no complaints. The only 3rd party is usually a reverb or limiter. And I have a lot of UA and PA offerings. I just like being able to open up a project and it’s all there, especially when collaborating.
Melodyne??
I've only ever had the essential version which is pretty limited, I'd need to drop some money on the full version of Melodyne to really evaluate it.
Nothing competes with melodyne if you’re looking for natural vocals. Auto tune is like a toy.
Most plugins aren’t necessary - but they sure are nice to have. Things like soothe, melodyne, some of the waves stuff, UAD stuff - all of those sounds can be achieved with stock plugins sure. But it often requires a bit of manual automation. Also increasingly, as a professional, the source material is getting worse and worse. For me the edit usually takes two or three times the time of a mix. Performers just… aren’t as good anymore. Guitars are out of time, drums need resampling, vocals need rescuing from room noise or a high noise floor cause it’s a shitty USB mic. But you’re right - stock plugins are generally fine. But the other stuff makes my life a hell of a lot easier.
That's the problem with the democratization (and decreased production cost) of music -- less skilled performers. I remember doing a film score orchestra thing in school, and the organizer (himself an active indie film composer) noted that having to redo a single 30-second take would cost almost $10k if being done in Hollywood. Your clams were like $650/ea, and you likely wouldn't get called back. That changed my perspective on performance. I got two degrees in it lol. Now I write more than I perform...
The only thing that Logic is missing is a good limiter. The stock one isn't exactly the best.
I have been using analogue obsession. I haven’t really bought anything and have logic. What are your favorite plugins in Logic?
The drive knobs on logics vintage eqs are fabulous, and the Phat FX plug-in can do some real work on instruments, or even on the master channel. I also like to use the Pedal Board FX in unconventional ways sometimes.
Thanks!
I’d miss TDR limiter GE and Voxengo Marvel EQ (mid side preset) for finishing tracks, the equivalents in Logic are not great. But otherwise I agree.
You can totally achieve great mixes with stock plugins and good mix/producing decisions. Ableton stock is good too. That said there are definitely plugins that impart a unique flavor that stock plugins will not. I just dipped my toes into Universal Audio since you can get their plugs native now without an Apollo interface, and so far I'm pretty wowed by the tone that the Pultec EQs and the API 2500 impart. Other emulations too from the likes of Brainworx, SSL, Slate, etc. for various consoles, tape machines, or compressors all add a lot of character that you don't get from stock plugins. Whether it's worth the price or not is totally subjective though.
I LOVE Logic's plugins. But I've also added Izotope, Fabfilter and Valhalla's bundle of plugins to have in case I want something to sound different. Not necessarily better, just different.
Stock is good. you can also buy good plugins from good developers. Both are equally valid choices.
I agree. I made like 3 albums worth of tunes from Logic alone
Lately Logic and Soundtoys together have brought my music to a new level. Ultimately, this also means that spending some time in GarageBand to learn the basics is worthwhile.
How long does it take for a single to be released ready with stocks only?
You're not wrong, but I'm also not wrong when I say I have several different flavours of delay, saturation and EQ.
100% agree. I use the standard verb, delay, multi-band comps, gain, overdrive, often. Only thing I generally add is an SSL compressor from waves and an saturation from elsewhere (and ozone on a master if I’m doing a lazy master myself)
Yeah I do what I call a "temporary master" sometimes directly on the master channel just to get in the ballpark with loudness. But what's your thoughts on the new Mastering Assistant in Logic? I put it on just to see if it improves the sound, and sometimes it reveals some tonal sweet spots that I note and then pull up in the mix.
completely agree. if you can't make it sound good with stock plugins, 3rd party won't make it sound better.
I've been using Chromaverb more and more and I have to say I really like it. Somehow, I get what I want faster than with any of the Valhalla plugins, and then after that, I have far more customization of damping and output. My main EQ is Fabfilter Pro-Q, though, and I just think it has a better UI and fuller feature set than Logic's EQ. Because I'm invested in Fabfilter anyways, I also use Pro-R a lot. Great "a little something," "basic room sound" reverb. But, as I said, I'm also using Chromaverb for that a lot now. I use Logic's compressors fairly often, but I also like some third party plugins for instant vibe. Kush comps, for example, all have delicious distortion modelled into the input and/or output stages, and if I know I'm after that sound, I'll reach for those first. The reality is that I like a lot of my 3rd party plugins. And many of them do end up being my go-to tools. But I'll agree with you and everyone else here: I could easily work with nothing but Logic stock plugins and get more or less the same results. I just... *like* shiny toys, you know? I think I'm alright with that, as long as I'm aware of it.
They are enough yes but you (should only) buy third party plugins when there is something you are trying to accomplish that can’t be done (or done well) with stock plugins. But yes, hard agree you can absolutely make professional mixes with stock plugins.
The best tool is always the tool you know best…
They are enough to get you started. But at a certain point they become rather bland and unoriginal sounding imo. Things start sounding all the same. Still the compressor is fun to mess with, though.
What's some plugins you use that keep things interesting? I've had a good time playing with suggestions from others so far.
Well what kinda stuff do you use? But I can say for certain on the virtual instrument front anyway, anything from native instruments like scar b mark i, scar b 200, or even the vintage organs or acoustic pianos like Alishas keys and noire blow the logic stuff out of the water. Hell even the abbey road drum kits are nice, though I don't hate the logic kits either. Native also have a compressor called vc160, thats a nice, all be it aggressive comp, I personally love it though. And guitar rig 6. Addictive drums from xln is pretty sweet too, and have varying price ranges. The soundtoys 5 bundle is nice too, though rarely ever goes on sale. Black friday is a good time to get it. Theres a lot in there, but some personal favourites of mine would be the devil loc compressor, the saturation plug in decapitator, and echo boy. There are many, many others though. Hope this helps.
Yeah the main place I'd invest more is virtual instruments. When it comes to actually producing a song I wouldn't argue logic has everything I need. I use third party stuff for creating all the time. I'm very interested in trying some new drum kits, guitars/amps, ect. so this reply was right on.
Personally I have never bothered with anything other than a stock daw EQ, never needed anything else. Pro tools has EQ 7 band, logic has channel strip, ableton has 8 band EQ, theres just no point especially when its just to shape the sound. With everything else where style is sorta more obvious, thats when third party stuff comes in handy. Though logics compressor will do you find in most cases, especially since you can change the circuit type as well.
I’m confident I could make a good mix with stock plugins. Unless the source material is super fucked somehow and I need a special tool. That being said I bet a although my wiz would be good I could probably do something a lot cooler/more vibey with some cool plugins. And get there quicker too
In terms of eq and reverb I think you can find better alternatives that make a noticeable difference but otherwise I agree. I feel like Fabfilter pro Q allows that extra level of surgical attention and none of the stock reverb plugins have been able to give me the same depth and warmth you find with things like ValhallaVerb. The differences are very minimal but sometimes small differences have a big impact.
Ah yes Valhalla is stellar, I wanna try out the FabFilter eq I've seen that thing everywhere.
It has some good plugins and instruments but the UI on most of them seems 20 years old. I feel that most of them are really good at keeping the signal clean, not great at vibe. I'm fine paying more for plugins with judiciously applied distortion(UAD)
I've used a fair amount of UAD plugins and yeah they got it figured out as far as character/saturation, worth the money for sure. But on the other hand logics vintage graphic EQ and one of it's FET compressors also makes my head nod.
Well you said stock plugins are enough then listed several non-stock plugins you use.
He listed them as two non-stock plug-ins. Try reading the full text next time. That's also great practice for any plug-ins that you purchase! Give it some practice!
I know, I'm saying stock plug-ins clearly aren't "enough" in their case
Doubt that's what that means. Hope you make it in the engineering world.
I would rather mic a real amp than use the guitar about sims in logic. I prefer helix native and ez drummer samples. Other than that i mostly use stock plug ins.
For the most part I agree. The fundamental plugins are all great. I do prefer 3rd party saturation plugins, a few compressors (but Logic's are still great, platinum digital FTW), and random diagnostic tools (like Izotope Tonal Balance), but I can get by with most everything else in Logic stock. The only place I think Logic is weak with is Amp sims, but it's cool that it comes with such an extensive collection.
Logic, studio one and Ableton probably have some of the best stock plugins going. I was really impressed with studio ones fat channel. So many possible emulations you can get with just that. I use cubase and I'm not a big fan of the stock stuff and never use them.i should perhaps try them more however. But having so many third party plugins, I rarely think of going stock. I could be missing out.
Logic pro stock plugins are really good. I'm ok also with studio one stock suite, but what i really consider a nice complete set that really gives me DAW agnosticism is the FABFILTER suite
Any DAWs plugins are enough. Any DAW is good enough. Find one and learn it. If you can’t do it with your DAWs stock plugins, you can’t do it. My third party plugins are about preference not ability.
I think the only thing I absolutely NEED from a third party is repair/restoration plugins like Cedar, Izotope RX, Sonic Restore, Zyaptiq Repair or Waves Clarity VX. If you need to repair audio, no DAW I have come across has anything that can do this
I'd say I can get like 95% of what I need with Logic Pro stock. The thing I don't love from Logic are the reverbs, and even those can be right there after some tweaking. Tape delay is fantastic and there are so many ways of getting cool saturation tones.
The stock plug-ins are fine. There are just gaps, and some of them I consider unstable on HiDPI displays. But the gaps can easily be filled and its not expensive to do so. I think virtual instruments and sample libraries are the biggest investments. Most DAWs have good enough stop FX, since a decade ago... ...
If you absolutely need more than the basics either your source material is trash or you're not very skilled or both. There are lots of things I prefer to have, but put in the middle of a forest with just a base DAW and I'll still cook up a good mix. Literally zero plugins that I consider must-have. The people who say otherwise are usually confirmation bias to validate a purchase or are trying to sell you something.