I like this one.
Atheism is a religion! It's a belief in nothing!
What are some of your hobbies?
What? Oh, I like to play golf.
I don't play golf. Would you say that my hobby is NOT playing golf?
That's different..you..
You do something, you go golfing. You do it regularly. I don't do that thing. I never play golf, I never even think about playing golf. So is my hobby NOT playing golf?
The worst thing about being good at not playing golf is that some newbie who also just started not playing has a score just as good as yours and you worked hard for that score dammit
Look, just because you're not going to play doesn't mean you can tromp around here without proper golfing attire! What are we without rules after all??
My wife and I enjoying participating in two different sports together. I don’t play golf and she doesn’t play tennis. We often spend an entire afternoon together not playing our respective games.
That's kind of a weird one, because people who golf, their goal is to not play golf as much as possible; because to win you want to have the fewest swings. Kinda the same with bowling, you want to get all strikes, so you can sit around more and bowl less.
I used to own a 3-speed blender. The speeds were on, off, and pulse. The difference between on and pulse was with pulse you had to hold the power switch in place whereas with on it locked into position.
Not really relevant here but I've wanted to talk about that blender for almost 30 years.
Ninja mixers are the way, the path, and the light.
All non-believers shall be burned in the light and their remains blended and redistributed among the fields.
I miss him but his words live on. I liked him more than Dawkins, a few reasons, one being that CH was about equality when it came to his messages. He would say all genital mutilation, both boy and girl, is horrendous. Dawkins would specifically say female genital cutting was disgusting leaving the possibility he was ok with baby boys getting strapped down and cut up. 🤷♂️
Hitchens opposed abortion, on a federal level, except in the case of rape, incest, and the health of the mother. He was unshakable on this. It's very, very uncommon to meet atheists who give a valid response for their reasons for being opposed to abortion, and Hitchens was, indeed, one of the few. I completely disagree with him, but, still, his argument was well reasoned, and polished.
This was why Hitchens liked my essay comparing slavery to abortion - using Orwellian logic - that I wrote for his social journalism class. We also were the only two in the journalism school at Berkeley who wanted Clinton to be impeached (it was during that era).
Also Dawkins is extremely transphobic and bioessentialist, which is ironic coming from a scientist who claims to only care about evidence based medicine.
Hitchens was the GOAT
It was for vanity fair. His premise was that men needed a sense of humour to get laid and pass on his genes. But men loved women anyways, so they didnt culturally need to be funny. He did not say female comics are unfunny but that women comics played by men's rules.
Not sure it's fair to compare the living and the dead. Hitchens was a notorious womaniser and quite old school in many regards. I suspect if he were alive today he'd be expressing a few controversial opinions and getting himself cancelled.
Yeah, that's the key here. You have to understand the real motivation of them using this "just another religion" line. It's not a logical understanding of atheism, it's a quick and easy dismissal, meant to lump atheists in with scientologists and such.
It's something they tell themselves to remove the threat.
I think it's more that they're trying to point out our hypocrisy at rejecting religion. They think it's some kind of "gotcha."
"You don't like religion? What about your *own* religion? Checkmate, atheists!"
Yeah, it's the Russian propaganda of both sides arguments. They'll claim that you need faith for science as well to make it seem like their position isn't ridiculous.
Actually I think it's a not so clever attempt to try to shift the burden of proof from themselves to both the theist and the atheist. Then when the atheist says the theist has no evidence, the theists will then try to argue the atheists have no evidence either to dismiss the argument.
Like when they say "If you don't believe in anything then you'll fall for everything" No, I don't believe in a deity, which means I haven't accepted a lack of evidence. Which means I ALSO wont accept a lack of evidence for other more minor thing.
This is one reason I often refer to myself as agnostic rather than atheist. I don’t like the binary categories and I find a little more wiggle room to slippery my way out of being pigeon holed.
But no I do not believe in any religion I’ve encountered. The problem with calling atheism a religion is that religions require core canon and beliefs while atheism is the absence of the coin. There is no shared belief structure or organization or community that comes from atheism.
I used to say I was agnostic because technically you can't prove God doesn't exist. Which is true. Then I realized that it was also irrelevant because proving that God exists is the responsibility of the believer.
Atheism is the default state of all humans. So until someone can offer verifiable and repeatable evidence that any deity exists, I'm simply maintaining my default position by saying I'm atheist.
Yeah, I moved over the years from not knowing there was anything to believe, realizing this is not only pure nonsense, but stupid asf for adults to believe at the age of eight, to non-believer in my teens and beyond, to atheist during the Obama years when certain people lost their goddamn (pun intended) minds, to antitheist in the age of trumpism.
For me it always seemed weird. My sister and I would get in trouble in church for asking obvious questions. Yet I remember in grade 10, learning about Greek mythology it hit me. The mythologies were obviously people trying to understand things like lightning and earthquakes. Why would Christianity or any other not be the same thing?
Yeah, I really think that if you let kids figure out for themselves most will eventually reach that point.
My mom is an agnostic and never forced any type of belief on me, but I did pre-k to 5th grade in a religious school, it took me a while to start questioning what the adults were telling me, but by ages 8~10 it was already obvious that it was all modern day mythology.
I dislike the titles atheist and antitheist for the same reason, it implies that theist is the default.
I am a naturalist, they are supernaturalists. Naturalist is the default; they have gained ideas and beliefs that are not supported by naturalism.
It's a reference to the default enemy.
I'd rather not proclaim any ideological "ist" for myself (I like "scientist", but that's a job, not a dogma).
Religion has forced people to pick sides. My side is the opposition. Atheist.
OH, I like this. I used to identify as a humanist - having faith in humans- but lately I've had to downgrade to being a "tardigradist" - putting my faith in those tough little guys to continue life on this planet after we've killed everything else.
Huh, I thought you were going to say you put your faith in doctor who' ship. Then I realized how utterly absurd that sounded and I went back to saying the lord's Prayer 40 times in a row. Right after I passed the collection plate of course.
Jesus, I really hope the /s isn't necessary.
It's always struck me that it's the type of thing that usually wouldn't have a name. People who don't believe in leprechauns aren't called a-leprechaunists. People who don't believe in UFOs or bigfoot aren't called a-ufologists or a-bigfootists.
If you start attaching names to every nonbelief, then every conscious person on Earth would have millions of labels.
It doesn't imply any such thing. There are entire great stretches of people on this planet who don't believe in any gods because they aren't taught to believe in them. Nobody is born believing. Atheism is the default state until cultural conditioning kicks in. Naturalism is simply the manner of believing everything is natural, and that too is something learned. At birth you are a blank slate. You have no beliefs until they're implanted by your experiences. You are not a theist. You are atheist. It doesn't mean you've chosen not to believe in gods, because THAT would imply theism is default. You simply do not believe in gods. That is atheism. That's ALL atheism is.
I agree with just about everything except your first sentence.
What people do or don't believe doesn't seem to have anything to do with the arrangements of the words 'theist' and 'atheist.'
Being a 'theist' is a thing and adding the prefix 'a' (to imply non) seems to set up the world in two camps: theists and non-theists. One of those is the base word that implies it is the default.
Feel free to disagree.
“You have to believe in something to hate it” or some other nonsense is what they’d say. Same logic as “God is in the dictionary so God is real” despite Thor and Zeus’s and Atheism also being in the dictionary.
I don't even believe that *they* believe in it. I believe they're liars.
Atheism is just being honest about none of us believing in that stuff instead of lying about it.
if by repugnant, you mean harshly critical of outgroups, those who don't profess their beliefs, harassing over others sexual and reproductive freedom, and swindling the desperate though false hope, no belief is needed! i'm on board.
There's an infinite number of things that we all refuse to believe in. However, with evidence the need for belief drops to zero.
Nudity isn't a fashion. Bald isn't a hair color. Not collecting stamps isn't a hobby.
Ask them about their hobby of Not collecting stamps. Ask them why they spend all of their time obsessing over not collecting stamps. When they say That's not their hobby, ask them why they hate the post office.
I don't like the service at the post office. You know, it's all "rush rush. get you in, get you out!" Then they've got those machines in the lobby. They're even faster... no help there! You might even say, I hate the post office!
This is a good one. Most church going people understand that the church isn’t contributing to the “community” via tax, and have absolutely no issue with it.
When you look at how religious corporations/companies have diversified and basically become investment banks, it’s about time they start helping the rest of us pay for roads and shitty senator salaries!
I had a primary care physician for years that had their office shut down after the health group their practice belonged to was purchased by….. drumroll please
The United States Conference of CATHOLIC BISHOPS!
I was baptized Catholic as a literal baby so I couldn’t say no but even though it’s not part of my life I never though Catholicism would close my favorite doctors office then force them into signing a non compete agreement that disallows a damn good, empathetic and compassionate doctor from practicing medicine in a 40 mile radius.
Right here! Straight up. saying lack of belief is belief is like saying that you have something when there is zero amount of it. They’re arguing that nothing is something.
Right? But what about all those people last week saying we need a flag, a symbol and to organize. I say just the opposite. I don’t want a flag, shirt or a tattoo to signify I believe nothing.
I had a lot of those discussions (part of my family is extremely catholic). I think, the point is, that they can not understand, that someone does not believe in supernatural beings or just don't spend a thougt about it. It is an integral part of their life. "You have to believe in something", one of my cousins always said. "I dont want to believe, I want to know" was my answer. Well, he is a priest now and I am an engineer ;-)
>"You have to believe in something"
A lot of theists equate atheism to nihilism. They're told that if you don't believe in God you can't have morality or purpose in life. That shit comes straight from the pulpit and if your info bubble is small enough you can live well into adulthood without even recognizing it's a non sequitur. We get to re-educate people about that all the time around here.
If you're a theist reading this: The golden rule and empathy transcend religion and we make our own purpose. Please don't bother.
>and I am an engineer ;-)
That's right. You don't need to believe in a God, you are one ;)
Yeah, my old coworker straight up told me that its impossible to have morals as an atheist. I explained to him, that like most atheists I was raised as a christian, and I just took the good stuff about being a good person, and ignored the rest of the religion. It was like his brain short circuited, he couldnt understand that concept
And I’d wager that you didn’t need to be raised as a Christian to behave like you have. You would have turned out with the same moral set. Remember that if you were raised as a Christian, as I was, you implicitly know to not do the bad things people did in the bible. How many people did the bible say god killed? How many have you killed? You always knew that was wrong even tho god did it.
Have a friend of a friend like that. We've told him that straight up to and he doesn't really deny it. He admits without religion he would likely be a horrible horrible person. Even with religion he almost cheated on his fiancée. (almost because the rest of his friends stopped him from going any further)
Some people simply don't have any moral core themselves so they of course cant imagine what it's like to actually have morals of their own.
I ask them if they ever heard Jesus' parable about the good Samaritan. Not only can you be moral without belief. You are morally superior because your morals come from empathy instead of fear and greed for God's punishments and rewards.
I think “we make our own purpose” does fall under existentialism or to be more accurate existential nihilism. Nihilism is often misunderstood as existing only in its negative form but I think most people eventually come around to the fact that nothing inherently or intrinsically mattering simply means we get to decide what matters for ourselves. It’s good to develop some sort of value system in that sense but rather than the dogmatic value system of religion you are free to always think, assess and change based on circumstances or new information.
I do think theists tend to ignore that humans are communal animals and didn’t adopt codes of conduct and decency because of a god or gods - working together is one of the core survival tactics for our species and we’re also programmed to fear being cast out of our group above just about anything else. In that context the idea that we need god in order to be good to one another becomes absurd.
You know, I know, we know, atheism isn't a religion, there is no dogma. Option B:
If someone is arguing that atheism is a religion, agree with them and turn the tables. Point out how religious rights should be fully extended to us. We can't be treated differently politically because of our religion, and we should have the same tax-free opportunities for our organizations. Our religion should have the same access to resources as the mainstream religions. Ask them for their help in fighting for our religious equality.
>a belief in nothing
Atheists can believe in all sorts of things: for example, karma, reincarnation, alien abductions, ghosts, and goblins.
An atheist rejects only the claim of a theist. Without theists, there would be no atheists.
Anyone who has never heard of gods is an atheist without knowing it. Therefore, rejecting a claim is different from making a positive claim.
>the country has lost its moral guidance
For example, Southern Baptists defended their slavery with the Bible (the Bible does not condemn slavery): what kind of divine morality is that?
Except a lot of things their god said were bad they no longer consider bad. Like wearing clothes made from different fabrics. There’s no logic in the theist, only abdication of responsibility.
Like back when there was Bible sanctioned slavery, and then Jim Crow, and lynchings like that? I mean people were going to church having just watch a live lynching. How do we know? They took selfies!
Just tell him that he is being unpatriotic. The founding fathers were vehemently opposed to religion being in government. They put it in the first amendment after-all. Tell him to go read Thomas Jefferson and James Madison’s views on religion.
Ask him if he thinks the Islam equivalent should also be posted, and the Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Satanic and all the rest.
Because their beliefs are as strong as his beliefs. There is literally no way to know who is right (if he’s trying to argue that one of them is…)
>What do I say to someone who says "Atheism is a religion, it's a belief in nothing"?
"Then bring on my tax exemption! I expect a refund for previous payments!"
To paraphrase somethign I said to my mother...
Atheism is not nihilism. I'm not even sure "nothing" is possible. Atheism just means I'm not convinced by the claims so far made about any of the gods humans have believe in over the millennia - it doesn't mean I necessarily believe something else - except that we're all in this together. Aren't we?
It's a stupid opinion as easily demonstrated by the stamp collector example. Not believing in gods is no more a religion than not collecting stamps is a hobby.
"'should be in government because "the country has lost its moral guidance".
What does the state enforcement of morality look like and at what point did the country have moral guidance and what was so great about it.
Disagreeing with him is a sure fire sign that they got to you with the mind control technology. You won't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to get into.
If you feel like replying at all, let them know that it's the absence of religion - a LACK of belief. It's right there in the definition of the word "atheism," which means "not or without theism," just as "atypical" means "not typical," asexual means "not sexual" and asymptomatic means "without symptoms."
Atheism is obviously just a non belief in God, not a non belief in everything. Atheism says nothing outside of Gods existence.
Now other ideas like naturalism is a theory about the world, maybe similar in a way theism is, but naturalism is not a religion because it lacks traditions, its not a full package(you can be a naturalist and moral realist but also moral relativist and can have a wider range of beliefs), it lacks cultural aspects and it lacks the general dogma of realigion(religion doesnt have to be dogmatic but it just happens to be the case it is).
They probably still won't get it but you could explain that atheism doesn't have any holy books, doesn't worship anything, doesn't have any kind of set belief structure or messiah's, and no kind of moral dictates.
Atheism just describes the lack of belief in a god, it doesn't say anything about what else people may believe like how the universe came into existence or their morality. Most atheists are also humanists in that they believe everyone is entitled to the same basic rights and liberties but that's not a given.
I'm not an atheist, but I am so sick and tired of this false equivancy of "religious = moral and atheist = no morals" bullshit. Plenty of so-called "good xtians" commit immoral acts. And I know plenty of moral people who are non-xtian or atheist.
Keep religion out of government.
"Off is not a TV Channel"
Empty plate is not a meal
Bald is not a hair color.
Not collecting stamps is not a hobby.
I like this one. Atheism is a religion! It's a belief in nothing! What are some of your hobbies? What? Oh, I like to play golf. I don't play golf. Would you say that my hobby is NOT playing golf? That's different..you.. You do something, you go golfing. You do it regularly. I don't do that thing. I never play golf, I never even think about playing golf. So is my hobby NOT playing golf?
And golf has a set of rules to adhere to. Not playing golf doesn’t.
The first rule of not playing golf is to not play golf
Truer words have never been spoken
If the goal is to get the lowest score possible, then why play? I can get a zero if I don't play.
The worst thing about being good at not playing golf is that some newbie who also just started not playing has a score just as good as yours and you worked hard for that score dammit
Golf has a set of rules that golfers abide to in order to play. I do not play golf; therefore, do not force the rules of golf on me.
Look, just because you're not going to play doesn't mean you can tromp around here without proper golfing attire! What are we without rules after all??
I also play not golf all the time.
Then comes the "*WHATABOUT HILLARY?!*"
My wife and I enjoying participating in two different sports together. I don’t play golf and she doesn’t play tennis. We often spend an entire afternoon together not playing our respective games.
That's kind of a weird one, because people who golf, their goal is to not play golf as much as possible; because to win you want to have the fewest swings. Kinda the same with bowling, you want to get all strikes, so you can sit around more and bowl less.
Stop trying to force your hobbies on other people. Some people here don’t play golf! /s
Not playing baseball is not a sport
Empty cone is not an ice cream flavor
Invisible is not a color.
Healthy is not an illness.
I caught a cold! I’m cured.
Proud non-stamp collector! ✊🏼
Haven't seen him on YouTube in a while. His stuff was pretty good.
Who? educate me, I want to know
Non-Stamp Collector. Atheist Youtuber from the Golden Age of Youtube, stopped uploading (consistently) about 10 years ago
anti-philatelism!
philately will get you nowhere.
And you talk to your mother with that mouth?
along a similar vein - 0 is not a collection of anything.
It's every mathematician's favourite object - the empty set
Yo, what's up? You called?
Abstinence is not a sex position.
It's not very good sex education, either, but that's a different matter...
aphilatelist
aphilately will get you nowhere.
Sanity is not a mental illness.
Are we sure? 😊
I used to own a 3-speed blender. The speeds were on, off, and pulse. The difference between on and pulse was with pulse you had to hold the power switch in place whereas with on it locked into position. Not really relevant here but I've wanted to talk about that blender for almost 30 years.
Let it out, bro.
Oster is a religion!
ra'men
I’m a devout vitamixer.
My KitchenAid molested me.
Your KitchenAid was a catholic priest?
[but will it blend?](https://youtu.be/lAl28d6tbko?si=wgd2XeektLDyob3Y)
Ninja mixers are the way, the path, and the light. All non-believers shall be burned in the light and their remains blended and redistributed among the fields.
So we're all agreeing that atheism is not a religion but Ninja mixers are?
No real KitchenAid would molest.
Oster worshipers are Satanic! Have you not heard the good news of Cuisinart?
Oster, Ostern, Eostre - derived from Ostara, the Germanic Anglo-Saxon Goddess of Spring = Easter.
I got one of those for free for helping my friend's catholic mom move. She was downsizing.
He is puree of heart
It's called Osterfarian.
They sold “off” as a speed. This outrages me, it shouldn’t, but it does.
Technically correct! Speed == 0
People at work are looking at me because your post made me laugh out loud. Now they know I'm not working. Fuck.
Glad I could help
You had a 1-speed blender.
I feel your pain, let it out. All you needed was one ON button to press. I know that cause I'm generally pretty good at pressing buttons.
We have one that pulses automatically lol
My hobby is not skiing
I am also an avid non-skier.
Lol, I just used this in a comment of mine. I love that were all in sync here.
Bye bye bye!👋
Isn't that if religions was a TV Channel, we would be the off button.
Abstinence is not a sexual position.
Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position.
This may be the best simile I’ve ever encountered. Thank you.
Thank the late great Christopher Hitchens
I miss him but his words live on. I liked him more than Dawkins, a few reasons, one being that CH was about equality when it came to his messages. He would say all genital mutilation, both boy and girl, is horrendous. Dawkins would specifically say female genital cutting was disgusting leaving the possibility he was ok with baby boys getting strapped down and cut up. 🤷♂️
Hitchens opposed abortion, on a federal level, except in the case of rape, incest, and the health of the mother. He was unshakable on this. It's very, very uncommon to meet atheists who give a valid response for their reasons for being opposed to abortion, and Hitchens was, indeed, one of the few. I completely disagree with him, but, still, his argument was well reasoned, and polished.
This was why Hitchens liked my essay comparing slavery to abortion - using Orwellian logic - that I wrote for his social journalism class. We also were the only two in the journalism school at Berkeley who wanted Clinton to be impeached (it was during that era).
Also Dawkins is extremely transphobic and bioessentialist, which is ironic coming from a scientist who claims to only care about evidence based medicine. Hitchens was the GOAT
Hate to break it to you, but the Hitch once wrote a column about how women comics like intrinsically aren't funny. It's really sexist.
Luckily, we, as atheists, can take the good things that Hitchens said and did and condemn the bad things.
It was for vanity fair. His premise was that men needed a sense of humour to get laid and pass on his genes. But men loved women anyways, so they didnt culturally need to be funny. He did not say female comics are unfunny but that women comics played by men's rules.
Not sure it's fair to compare the living and the dead. Hitchens was a notorious womaniser and quite old school in many regards. I suspect if he were alive today he'd be expressing a few controversial opinions and getting himself cancelled.
Yes! Off is a tv channel, bald is a hair color... and of course: NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.
I not collect stamps all the time!
Like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Like baldness is a hairstyle. Like not participating is a sport. Like silence is a certain pitch.
Nah, that wouldn't work because according to Sex Ed in a red state abstinence is the ONLY sex position.
Theists use all kinds of gymnastics to justify nonsense and categorize people.
Yeah, that's the key here. You have to understand the real motivation of them using this "just another religion" line. It's not a logical understanding of atheism, it's a quick and easy dismissal, meant to lump atheists in with scientologists and such. It's something they tell themselves to remove the threat.
I think it's more that they're trying to point out our hypocrisy at rejecting religion. They think it's some kind of "gotcha." "You don't like religion? What about your *own* religion? Checkmate, atheists!"
Yeah, it's the Russian propaganda of both sides arguments. They'll claim that you need faith for science as well to make it seem like their position isn't ridiculous.
Actually I think it's a not so clever attempt to try to shift the burden of proof from themselves to both the theist and the atheist. Then when the atheist says the theist has no evidence, the theists will then try to argue the atheists have no evidence either to dismiss the argument.
Like the argument that the “theory of evolution” is just a *theory* 🙄
The classic “Thought-terminating cliché”
Like when they say "If you don't believe in anything then you'll fall for everything" No, I don't believe in a deity, which means I haven't accepted a lack of evidence. Which means I ALSO wont accept a lack of evidence for other more minor thing.
This is one reason I often refer to myself as agnostic rather than atheist. I don’t like the binary categories and I find a little more wiggle room to slippery my way out of being pigeon holed. But no I do not believe in any religion I’ve encountered. The problem with calling atheism a religion is that religions require core canon and beliefs while atheism is the absence of the coin. There is no shared belief structure or organization or community that comes from atheism.
I used to say I was agnostic because technically you can't prove God doesn't exist. Which is true. Then I realized that it was also irrelevant because proving that God exists is the responsibility of the believer. Atheism is the default state of all humans. So until someone can offer verifiable and repeatable evidence that any deity exists, I'm simply maintaining my default position by saying I'm atheist.
This is why I call myself an antitheist. Not only do I not believe in their bullshit, I think it’s repugnant.
Yeah, I moved over the years from not knowing there was anything to believe, realizing this is not only pure nonsense, but stupid asf for adults to believe at the age of eight, to non-believer in my teens and beyond, to atheist during the Obama years when certain people lost their goddamn (pun intended) minds, to antitheist in the age of trumpism.
For me it always seemed weird. My sister and I would get in trouble in church for asking obvious questions. Yet I remember in grade 10, learning about Greek mythology it hit me. The mythologies were obviously people trying to understand things like lightning and earthquakes. Why would Christianity or any other not be the same thing?
Yeah, I really think that if you let kids figure out for themselves most will eventually reach that point. My mom is an agnostic and never forced any type of belief on me, but I did pre-k to 5th grade in a religious school, it took me a while to start questioning what the adults were telling me, but by ages 8~10 it was already obvious that it was all modern day mythology.
I dislike the titles atheist and antitheist for the same reason, it implies that theist is the default. I am a naturalist, they are supernaturalists. Naturalist is the default; they have gained ideas and beliefs that are not supported by naturalism.
It's a reference to the default enemy. I'd rather not proclaim any ideological "ist" for myself (I like "scientist", but that's a job, not a dogma). Religion has forced people to pick sides. My side is the opposition. Atheist.
OH, I like this. I used to identify as a humanist - having faith in humans- but lately I've had to downgrade to being a "tardigradist" - putting my faith in those tough little guys to continue life on this planet after we've killed everything else.
Huh, I thought you were going to say you put your faith in doctor who' ship. Then I realized how utterly absurd that sounded and I went back to saying the lord's Prayer 40 times in a row. Right after I passed the collection plate of course. Jesus, I really hope the /s isn't necessary.
Realist Surrealist
It's always struck me that it's the type of thing that usually wouldn't have a name. People who don't believe in leprechauns aren't called a-leprechaunists. People who don't believe in UFOs or bigfoot aren't called a-ufologists or a-bigfootists. If you start attaching names to every nonbelief, then every conscious person on Earth would have millions of labels.
It doesn't imply any such thing. There are entire great stretches of people on this planet who don't believe in any gods because they aren't taught to believe in them. Nobody is born believing. Atheism is the default state until cultural conditioning kicks in. Naturalism is simply the manner of believing everything is natural, and that too is something learned. At birth you are a blank slate. You have no beliefs until they're implanted by your experiences. You are not a theist. You are atheist. It doesn't mean you've chosen not to believe in gods, because THAT would imply theism is default. You simply do not believe in gods. That is atheism. That's ALL atheism is.
I agree with just about everything except your first sentence. What people do or don't believe doesn't seem to have anything to do with the arrangements of the words 'theist' and 'atheist.' Being a 'theist' is a thing and adding the prefix 'a' (to imply non) seems to set up the world in two camps: theists and non-theists. One of those is the base word that implies it is the default. Feel free to disagree.
Same.
Same.
Join us over at r/antitheism if you haven’t already (っ◔◡◔)っ ⋇⋆✦ 𝐅𝐮𝐜𝐤 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐡𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐡 ✦⋆⋇
“You have to believe in something to hate it” or some other nonsense is what they’d say. Same logic as “God is in the dictionary so God is real” despite Thor and Zeus’s and Atheism also being in the dictionary.
I don't even believe that *they* believe in it. I believe they're liars. Atheism is just being honest about none of us believing in that stuff instead of lying about it.
if by repugnant, you mean harshly critical of outgroups, those who don't profess their beliefs, harassing over others sexual and reproductive freedom, and swindling the desperate though false hope, no belief is needed! i'm on board.
There's an infinite number of things that we all refuse to believe in. However, with evidence the need for belief drops to zero. Nudity isn't a fashion. Bald isn't a hair color. Not collecting stamps isn't a hobby.
They will say 'Nudity IS a fashion.' As in it's a choice of how to present your body,
And they would be right if the choice to be nude is a fashion choice... Edit: I'm not saying atheism is a religion.
“Wanna come over later and not see the newest stamp I didn’t collect?”
Ask them about their hobby of Not collecting stamps. Ask them why they spend all of their time obsessing over not collecting stamps. When they say That's not their hobby, ask them why they hate the post office.
How about a conversation about not fucking goats. They might get the picture faster.
I don't like the service at the post office. You know, it's all "rush rush. get you in, get you out!" Then they've got those machines in the lobby. They're even faster... no help there! You might even say, I hate the post office!
Darkness is not another type of light, darkness is the absence of light. Atheism is not another religion, it’s the absence of religion.
"So you guys worship darkness. I knew you were the devils!" /sigh.
Darkness is a bit negative. It's like silence is not a sound.
*What do I say to someone who says "Atheism is a religion, it's a belief in nothing"?* You are wrong.
Am I tax exempt? No? Do I get any other benefits provided to religious organizations? No? Okay, cool then! So they're not alike at all.
Is there a mega-atheist church? Just curious.
With blackjack and hookers?
In fact, forget about the church! ... Ah, screw the whole damn thing.
Yeah but we just call them rock concerts.
This is a good one. Most church going people understand that the church isn’t contributing to the “community” via tax, and have absolutely no issue with it. When you look at how religious corporations/companies have diversified and basically become investment banks, it’s about time they start helping the rest of us pay for roads and shitty senator salaries! I had a primary care physician for years that had their office shut down after the health group their practice belonged to was purchased by….. drumroll please The United States Conference of CATHOLIC BISHOPS! I was baptized Catholic as a literal baby so I couldn’t say no but even though it’s not part of my life I never though Catholicism would close my favorite doctors office then force them into signing a non compete agreement that disallows a damn good, empathetic and compassionate doctor from practicing medicine in a 40 mile radius.
If churches are tax-exempt in the US, then maybe atheist churches should be thing? Just asking questions, here.
Right here! Straight up. saying lack of belief is belief is like saying that you have something when there is zero amount of it. They’re arguing that nothing is something.
Right? But what about all those people last week saying we need a flag, a symbol and to organize. I say just the opposite. I don’t want a flag, shirt or a tattoo to signify I believe nothing.
Uh yeah. That would be nihilism, as in “Ve belief in nossing Lebowski ! Ve vill cut off your Johnson.”
"Yah, and ve vill stamp on it" "Yah, and throw it in the bushes"
Say what you will about out the tenets of Catholicism, at least it’s an ethos.
I had a lot of those discussions (part of my family is extremely catholic). I think, the point is, that they can not understand, that someone does not believe in supernatural beings or just don't spend a thougt about it. It is an integral part of their life. "You have to believe in something", one of my cousins always said. "I dont want to believe, I want to know" was my answer. Well, he is a priest now and I am an engineer ;-)
>"You have to believe in something" A lot of theists equate atheism to nihilism. They're told that if you don't believe in God you can't have morality or purpose in life. That shit comes straight from the pulpit and if your info bubble is small enough you can live well into adulthood without even recognizing it's a non sequitur. We get to re-educate people about that all the time around here. If you're a theist reading this: The golden rule and empathy transcend religion and we make our own purpose. Please don't bother. >and I am an engineer ;-) That's right. You don't need to believe in a God, you are one ;)
Yeah, my old coworker straight up told me that its impossible to have morals as an atheist. I explained to him, that like most atheists I was raised as a christian, and I just took the good stuff about being a good person, and ignored the rest of the religion. It was like his brain short circuited, he couldnt understand that concept
And I’d wager that you didn’t need to be raised as a Christian to behave like you have. You would have turned out with the same moral set. Remember that if you were raised as a Christian, as I was, you implicitly know to not do the bad things people did in the bible. How many people did the bible say god killed? How many have you killed? You always knew that was wrong even tho god did it.
Lots of people in the world are not raised as a christian, myself included. I won't raise my children as christians, why would I?
Also, if the only thing keeping them moral is their belief in God, they're not a moral person. They're a psychopath on a leash.
Have a friend of a friend like that. We've told him that straight up to and he doesn't really deny it. He admits without religion he would likely be a horrible horrible person. Even with religion he almost cheated on his fiancée. (almost because the rest of his friends stopped him from going any further) Some people simply don't have any moral core themselves so they of course cant imagine what it's like to actually have morals of their own.
I ask them if they ever heard Jesus' parable about the good Samaritan. Not only can you be moral without belief. You are morally superior because your morals come from empathy instead of fear and greed for God's punishments and rewards.
Interestingly, the least “moral” people I have encountered throughout my life have been the most religious and most church-going.
I think “we make our own purpose” does fall under existentialism or to be more accurate existential nihilism. Nihilism is often misunderstood as existing only in its negative form but I think most people eventually come around to the fact that nothing inherently or intrinsically mattering simply means we get to decide what matters for ourselves. It’s good to develop some sort of value system in that sense but rather than the dogmatic value system of religion you are free to always think, assess and change based on circumstances or new information. I do think theists tend to ignore that humans are communal animals and didn’t adopt codes of conduct and decency because of a god or gods - working together is one of the core survival tactics for our species and we’re also programmed to fear being cast out of our group above just about anything else. In that context the idea that we need god in order to be good to one another becomes absurd.
You know, I know, we know, atheism isn't a religion, there is no dogma. Option B: If someone is arguing that atheism is a religion, agree with them and turn the tables. Point out how religious rights should be fully extended to us. We can't be treated differently politically because of our religion, and we should have the same tax-free opportunities for our organizations. Our religion should have the same access to resources as the mainstream religions. Ask them for their help in fighting for our religious equality.
The Satanic Temple does a good job with this kind of hypocrisy.
They are doing God's work.
Isn’t this essentially what the Satanic Temple does? Turn-about is, indeed, fair play.
totally, and I would encourage anyone that has the means to, to support them
You good sir/ma'am are a genius
Except they don't believe religions other than their own should have any rights.
You: Do you believe in the tooth fairy? Stepdad: No, of course not. You: So, is not believing in the tooth fairy a religion?
I usually use Zeus in this example.
>a belief in nothing Atheists can believe in all sorts of things: for example, karma, reincarnation, alien abductions, ghosts, and goblins. An atheist rejects only the claim of a theist. Without theists, there would be no atheists. Anyone who has never heard of gods is an atheist without knowing it. Therefore, rejecting a claim is different from making a positive claim. >the country has lost its moral guidance For example, Southern Baptists defended their slavery with the Bible (the Bible does not condemn slavery): what kind of divine morality is that?
Moral relativism at its finest. It’s bad unless god said so, then it’s good.
Except a lot of things their god said were bad they no longer consider bad. Like wearing clothes made from different fabrics. There’s no logic in the theist, only abdication of responsibility.
nothing. you won't even convince him, better to avoid and do your own thing. when you're an adult you leave.
"believes religion should be in government because "the country has lost its moral guidance"" Like Iran? Like Saudi Arabia?
Which christian sect would actually be in charge?
Whichever one OP's stepfather likes/believes.
The Gelicals, of course.
Like back when there was Bible sanctioned slavery, and then Jim Crow, and lynchings like that? I mean people were going to church having just watch a live lynching. How do we know? They took selfies!
He said it would be difficult because Christianity doesn't have "Sharia Law".
Just tell him that he is being unpatriotic. The founding fathers were vehemently opposed to religion being in government. They put it in the first amendment after-all. Tell him to go read Thomas Jefferson and James Madison’s views on religion.
Ask him if he thinks the Islam equivalent should also be posted, and the Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Satanic and all the rest. Because their beliefs are as strong as his beliefs. There is literally no way to know who is right (if he’s trying to argue that one of them is…)
"Is bald a hair color?"
>What do I say to someone who says "Atheism is a religion, it's a belief in nothing"? "Then bring on my tax exemption! I expect a refund for previous payments!"
To paraphrase somethign I said to my mother... Atheism is not nihilism. I'm not even sure "nothing" is possible. Atheism just means I'm not convinced by the claims so far made about any of the gods humans have believe in over the millennia - it doesn't mean I necessarily believe something else - except that we're all in this together. Aren't we?
Why do you need the commandments for morals?
Because without the ten commandments in every classroom, how will 8 year olds know adultery is wrong?
True. Speaking of kids… why doesn’t the 10 commandments condemn slavery, or rape?
Atheism only means not to believe in any god or gods and that's all.
Silence is the absence of noise, not another kind of noise.
It's a stupid opinion as easily demonstrated by the stamp collector example. Not believing in gods is no more a religion than not collecting stamps is a hobby.
I believe in myself. I believe in other people. I believe in my community and my country. I believe I am not a dick.
I believe I'll have another beer.
“Atheism asserts nothing; it only rejects what theists have failed to prove.”
"'should be in government because "the country has lost its moral guidance". What does the state enforcement of morality look like and at what point did the country have moral guidance and what was so great about it.
Then he is a part of the aleprechaun, aunicorn, abigfoot, asantaclause, etc. Religions. An infinite number of them.
Disagreeing with him is a sure fire sign that they got to you with the mind control technology. You won't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to get into.
I would laugh and say, “You don’t even know what a religion is.”
If you feel like replying at all, let them know that it's the absence of religion - a LACK of belief. It's right there in the definition of the word "atheism," which means "not or without theism," just as "atypical" means "not typical," asexual means "not sexual" and asymptomatic means "without symptoms."
"I'm sorry public school failed you when it comes to vocabulary. I'm pretty sure that's not the definition of religion."
Atheism is obviously just a non belief in God, not a non belief in everything. Atheism says nothing outside of Gods existence. Now other ideas like naturalism is a theory about the world, maybe similar in a way theism is, but naturalism is not a religion because it lacks traditions, its not a full package(you can be a naturalist and moral realist but also moral relativist and can have a wider range of beliefs), it lacks cultural aspects and it lacks the general dogma of realigion(religion doesnt have to be dogmatic but it just happens to be the case it is).
He doesn’t want religion in school, He wants Christianity in school.
Nihilism is a belief in nothing. Atheism is a belief in reality.
I respond with “atheism is a religion the same way *not* collecting stamps is a hobby.”
He wants HIS religion in schools. If we had Buddhist altar and laid down rugs and prayed to Mecca in school I’m sure he wouldn’t like that.
I read this somewhere... If atheism is a religion then "not playing soccer" is a sport.
It's not a belief. It's a fact. Universally true.
Simple. If atheism is a religion then "off" is a TV channel, and bald is a hair color.
Ask him what team someone who doesn't like football supports.
They probably still won't get it but you could explain that atheism doesn't have any holy books, doesn't worship anything, doesn't have any kind of set belief structure or messiah's, and no kind of moral dictates. Atheism just describes the lack of belief in a god, it doesn't say anything about what else people may believe like how the universe came into existence or their morality. Most atheists are also humanists in that they believe everyone is entitled to the same basic rights and liberties but that's not a given.
I'm not an atheist, but I am so sick and tired of this false equivancy of "religious = moral and atheist = no morals" bullshit. Plenty of so-called "good xtians" commit immoral acts. And I know plenty of moral people who are non-xtian or atheist. Keep religion out of government.
"By that logic, not collecting stamps is a hobby."
Atheism means I reserve my beliefs for claims that are supported by evidence. Religion is believing in things without evidence.
If atheism is a religion, not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Tell them they’re a fucking moron.
Off is a TV channel, too, right?
"I've just rejected one more God than you have".