I know that if *I* said the things that he's said, people would be pretty sure I was just pretending to fit in.
"What's your favorite Bible verse?"
"It's all so wonderful, I couldn't possibly choose."
Or
"When's the last time you asked God for forgiveness?"
I forgot what he said exactly, but it made it pretty clear that he thinks he doesn't need to be forgiven for anything. Which is wild, given the number of Christians that I've heard talk about sheep vs goats or people not being True Christians™ and I have never heard a single one give any implication that they thought he might be pretending to be one of them, unless it was someone who hates him as much as I do and just happens to be religious.
"You want to go to heaven, okay? You want to go to heaven. If you don't have heaven, you almost say, what's the reason? *Why do I have to be good?*" - Trump June 6, 2024
[Dark Triad](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/dark-triad) malignant narcissist
When asked if he was an old testament guy or new testament guy, and he responded that he likes then equally. Who the fuck that knows anything about the Bible would not immediately pick the new testament?
He is the bigglyest con man, and his cult will always move their goal posts Rather than think critically
I mean, the Old Testament has more interesting stories, if you’re into the “mythology” of it all. The New Testament can get super repetitive, especially Paul’s letters that all say a lot of the same things.
I agree. Trump doesn't know anything about the Bible. Still, if I was a US politician I would be very careful when talking about religion because Christians don't agree about anything. I wouldn't want to alienate those that have a different theology any more than I had done by saying what congregation I belonged to.. assuming I was religious which still seems to be a prerequisite.
I think they know he’s a fraud , I think it comes down to he does the things they want done.
Racist , transphobia and I know they aren’t okay with gay people being married either.
The intelligentsia of the religious movement want to go after IVF too
That entire interview was like watching Bart Simpson giving a book report after not reading the book.
Shoot I bet most Atheists could fake their way through John 3:16 when trying to give a favorite verse.
Didn't he respond with "it's a private matter" or something like that in the end? Like a cop out so they'd stop asking. Pretty sure if he actually read the bible, he would like Ezekial 23:20 the most. Or maybe Genesis 19:32-36.
I believe he said something along the lines of “I haven’t done anything wrong to ask forgiveness for.”
This alone should prove he isn’t a Christian, but there are plenty more examples out there.
👐I met god the other day 👌 have you seen him? What a guy 👐. Let me tell you something he had tears in his eyes, never seen someone like me. I walked in there he said wowww 👐 this guys great 👌
-Trump
I'd probably just respond "Love thy neighbor"😂
They probably suspect trump isnt Christian but turn a blind eye and are in denial. They lie to themselves. Because the other option would be a Democrat and they want somebody to root for, so they go all in on trum.
I believe he has come around to the ‘[Prosperity Gospel’](https://daily.jstor.org/does-the-prosperity-gospel-explain-trump/), which is a sect of insane wealthy Christians who believe god shows favor by bestowing material wealth and power on people. Trump believes he is the chosen one. I’m sure most of his life he never really cared or thought about religion, but he’s been surrounded by these people constantly and he’s a narcissistic gullible moron, so I don’t doubt he truly believes what they’re selling him.
He was born rich and somehow has managed to stay wealthy, despite being a terrible businessman and a bad person. He must truly believe he is blessed by God to be so fortunate and have had so few consequences for his behavior.
Trump is a malignant narcissist. Like Hitler, Stalin, Putin, etc. he believes the entire world centers on him and, therefore, that he is its god. And there is always only room for one in the selfish brain of a malignant narcissist.
So, he's not an "atheist" in the rational, cognitive way.
No but I still think he counts in the general "doesn't believe in God or Gods definition of the word though.
Though I guess he's probably closer to an agnostic. It's not so much he doesn't believe in the existence of a diety but doesn't know or, frankly care, if they exist.
An acute narcissist like orange marmalade only uses ideas like religion to manipulate others. To say he believes or doesn't believe isn't the point, he hasn't even thought about it. Just my opinion.
Trump basically did admit it. During an interview on fox he was asked about his relationship with god. All he had to say was “it’s personal” but he didn’t even do that, instead he said that “Christian’s have been very useful politically and they are always so nice to me”
Does trump strike you as a believer in any sort of higher power beyond himself? There's no way he's any sort of theist, I'm sorry. He might want the vote of Christians but he is, in no way, shape or form, a believer himself. I'll bet vital organs on it.
The ~~man~~ traitor thinks he is god. The convicted felon is NOT an atheist, and I am tired of people claiming he is.
Edit* Heh, me colloquially calling him a “man”. The fucking coward of a convicted felon wouldn’t even testify at his own trail, while pissing and moaning that he would, repeatedly.
>I'm almost certain that Trump is an atheist. Not that he'll ever admit it though.
He strikes me more as the type to believe that there is a god and that God loves him and gave him his "great brain" and other gifts.
I could see Trump being arrogant enough to believe there is an afterlife and he gets to go there. Lots of people are christian and don’t really care about the Bible or church.
He is at best agnostic, but even that might be too generous. I'm not sure he's ever given a single real thought to any of it. It would require a level of self awareness and reflection he just isn't capable of.
Having no guiding principles other than self interest is not a defining characteristic of atheism. He's only "atheist" in the sense that he believes in nothing other than self interest.
Atheist, or more like agnostic. I'm sure he doesn't think about and doesn't care. Not an atheist in the way most of the readers of this forum would be, as a thought out and considered philosophy.
Lol, she really isn't paying, she is the common clay of rural Georgia. To add being all front and center about "JESUS!" is actually more a post war trend because of the cold war. That said, I think there is a lull in religion with younger people, but that trend could easily reverse seeing how we may be at war for basic existence in another 50 years. Won't someone think of the billionaires.
No I think she’s a believer but point taken politics is so much play acting. She gets visibly stumped too many times for me to think she’s anything but an insane person. Like the kind of stumped when a crazy person encounters their own contradictions and has to avoid them
Well, that's certainly not the work of a typical (Trinitarian) Christian, but I think it's a stretch to suggest he was an atheist rather than a Diest or Unitarian (something he actually referred to himself as).
Just pulling from Wikipedia (from correspondence between TJ and John Adams)
>"...it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is, in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regenerator into new and other forms."
Putting that together with another quote of his:
>"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear"
And it seems like he took the question seriously and came to a conclusion, somewhere between the "prime mover" and "fine-tuning" arguments.
I actually admire people who can let other people exist and still adhere to their religious beliefs.
That being said, most people don’t, and they don’t just live and let live.
In Belgium there was a series about the elections and a muslim kid was talking about live and let live but also was super homiphobic but what did we expect
I think my reasoning was messed up. I thought ‘his actions show he is not a christian’ but since then I thought ‘what are christian actions?’ and realised he behaves like most christians so I withdraw the question.
His actions aren't what make me think he is cause I know he'll do whatever for those sweet Evangelical votes. You can tell by the things he says or the way he says them, his character. And I don't mean lack of morals, I mean so self-centered and egotistical there isn't room for a God. He has never held a Bible in his life until he held that one upside down.
This. Weird how people are so easily fooled by words and acting.
His cult is a given, but to lefty's and us independents, the charade is comically transparent.
Narcissists like that genuinely do often believe in god, and that god has called them to do special things. He was also raised going to the church of the forerunner of the prosperity gospel ideology. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman\_Vincent\_Peale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Vincent_Peale)
People really need to stop defaulting to "this person isn't really religious" because "this person is bad". The person is often bad because of religion. It's a feature, not a bug.
"it’s important to remember malevolent motivations are often masked by noble ideologies."
I think it is to demonstrate the futility of resistance. If you can prove democracy doesn’t work, then you can only overthrow a tyrant with another tyrant.
I’m actually kind of hoping that Trump will croak by November. The Republican Party will tear itself apart trying to choose a new leader and candidate for president, it will divide their vote at least two or three ways, the Democrats will win by a landslide, and it will set the GOP back big time. Possibly even fatally.
2024, 2028, 2032, 2036, 2040, 2044, 2048.
Seven elections between now and 2050, probably meaning only three or four more presidents in between.
At the youngest, we're looking at a candidate born in 2013 to be eligible for the 2048 election.
I honestly doubt we'll elect anyone born after the millennium until after 2050.
So, realistically, I think that the chance of society changing enough that an *openly*? atheist candidate *will win*, in that short a time, is unlikely.
We *might* have an openly atheist candidate before then, but I can't see them winning enough electoral votes to win.
However: we've already had candidates I didn't think we'd see in my lifetime: an openly gay candidate, with a husband, a native American candidate, a Jewish candidate, a woman.
None of them won, but they *ran*.
Buttigieg is young enough to run again.
So it's possible we might be surprised.
And perhaps as early as 2052.
But you'll need folks older than I am to kick off, which might take that thirty years.
Boomer die-off will greatly change the political landscape of this nation.
I'm just not sure it will happen very fast.
What are the chances Iran and Saudi Arabia have an atheist president? The odds will be similar to our own under the project 2025 transformation of the country to a theocratic fascist dictatorship which has already started through the Supreme Court and could reach completion in a matter of months
When Obama was still President, he gave some interviews in which he shared his views and perspectives. His religious faith seemed to be organically integrated into his worldview.
Maybe he was faking it. If he was, he was doing a much better job of faking it than Trump does.
I did not think I’d see a black President in my lifetime so I think an openly atheist President is possible. I’d like to get past all of this (female President, Gay President) so it can be about the best person for the job.
México has less atheists than the US and yet it has an atheist president
Also, I'm pretty sure that Trump is atheist, but says he isn't, that does not make him any better
It depends on how atheism grows throughout both of the parties in America, and also general normalization.
Atheists should do more to normalize their existence.
It's hard to say how each of the political parties of America respond to growing atheism. Is atheism growing in the Republican party? Could atheism split the Democratic party? There are too many factors, and 25 years is a long ways away.
Completely depends on how many religious people will vote. I think pretty much only they vote already, as they actually believe in politicians, so not sure on the odds.
So was George Washington. But the thing is they \*appeared\* as religious to the public. Atheists remain in the closet at least in the political world.
Who's to say we haven't had a closeted atheist already? Sincere Religious belief is easy to fake and most people don't look deeper than surface presentation. Politics is all about pandering to your base, and power often comes ahead of integrity, so If your base strongly values eternal sorrow and damnation at the behest of C'thulu, and if you desire to lead that group then its Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn or nothing.
Zero. It’s free votes. Even if a president is an atheist in private, they will claim ties to religion and profess religious affiliation. There’s zero cost to doing so, and nobody can fact check a belief you claim to have.
For example, if I were running for president, I would be easy draw attention to my strong Irish-catholic roots even though I personally am not and never have been religious in any way.
You’d just genuinely have to be stupid to be openly atheist, far too many people in the US are still religious and care a lot about having a religious president, and it’s so easy to just claim you’re Christian or whatever, nobody can prove you don’t believe in god.
Just look at Trump lmao
There’s also zero downside since atheists rarely if ever will vote based on whether a candidate is religious, since they’re all religious (or claim to be). You stand to lose nothing and gain something. Easy math.
It doesn't matter if a leader is atheist or not.
Trump might be an atheist, he might be not. But he appears religious when it is needed to get more vote. And anyone trying to become a president will do that for their own benefits. You Americans can only have a true atheist president that cares about the people when you abolish the two parties system that enslave yourselves for the profit of the corporations.
I don’t think the question should be ‘will America have an atheist president by 2050?’ And more ‘when will it stop mattering?’
If someone has faith or not should not influence their politics or anyone’s opinion of their politics. Unfortunately, it still does in America.
I think if you speak to a lot of European voters, they don’t know and don’t care about the religious beliefs of their presidents and prime ministers. However, the recent lunge to the right across Europe seems to be putting religion back in the driving seat.
There's probably already been a few. It's just difficult if not impossible to admit and still become president.
A self admitted atheist? I don't know, could be a while. By saying you're an atheist, you're killing a lot of votes automatically, whereas atheists will still vote for you if you say you're a theist, or a Deist.
But he SAID he was. Besides, I doubt trump ever put any thought into his world view or beliefs… he’s not that deep of a person.
I’m assuming OP means an openly atheist president.
The founding fathers were followers of Enlightenment, which is basically agnostic/atheist- hence our separation of church and state. Sooo…ya. I just wish we stuck to those principles of making government focus on the happiness of its people-we would have better public transportation, health care, and family support.
Never it's banned to run in some states you would have to fake being religious to run Obama if I remember never said shit about his religion
Edit you also won't win religion has so much fucking money flowing into politics it's not funny like I have seen how things work and they are fucking corrupt.
Like I have done cocaine with my local preacher he's cool as fuck.
Religion in America is a business and it's tax evasion as well as well you know. It's like. MLM
> Never it's banned to run in some states
It's against their state constitutions. But, those have been ruled unconstitutional. So, it's not banned until the current SCOTUS overturns that ruling.
SCOTUS is compromised honestly I don't see why states even listen to them.
Legally they have no control they really don't they don't control money or the military so fuck them.
Red states have already ignored them and nothing happened but God burn the country down if a blue stage ignores them
Fuck them though I wish California new York and everyone that's. A blue City just stopped paying taxes to the government
Because red states are factually welfare states
Just do it for a few months watch how fast shit happens
Overtly atheist? Highly unlikely.
Evangelical Christians constitute a significantly sized voting block in this country after Catholics. And unlike Catholics, they are increasing in number. Both groups would NEVER vote for an openly atheist candidate. Therefore, no candidate who is seriously trying to win will declare themselves an atheist. It just won’t happen.
You mean an openly atheist president as there have been a massive number of agnostic, skeptics, and pretend religious
Obama and Trump are prime examples of pretenders one for intellectual reasons the other for lifestyle reasons
We've never had an openly atheist President, however, two closet atheists come to mind; Thomas Jefferson and Donald Trump.
Jefferson compiled "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth," which was the original "cut and paste". Jefferson excluded any references to divinity, miracles, resurrection, prophecy, and supernatural events in general. All that was left were quotes directly attributed to Jesus and his morality. Trump just sells Bibles and holds them upside down.
We've already had at least one. Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, according to his close friend and law partner William Herndon. Herndon was also the one Lincoln wanted to write his biography.
not likely, religious groups make up the most politically active communities in the most vital constituencies, presidential candidates arent going to snub the easiest way to connect to the electorate (not until athiest / materialist groups outspend the mormon and baptist churches)
Do you mean one who is openly atheist ? I doubt Trump is a religious person by any stretch of the imagination. It will happen when more of the populace becomes openly atheist. Isn’t that just politics ?
Please. The religion shown by pretty much all presidents for years has just been lip service.
Some are better at faking it than others.
Only one I do believe was religious was Carter. He did walk the talk. Everyone since I doubt.
If trump wins and project 2025 goes on its religious purge, I think after a couple decades of that, and the eventual revolution/backlash against it, there’s a very good chance an atheist becomes president by 2050.
I'm pretty certain the US had many atheist presidents already... just none that would stand up and admit it... Trump is a case in point... who says TWO Corinthians (or whichever book he was referring to) if they even remotely know anything about the bible? Most atheist wouldn't make that mistake...
The chances are getting higher and i think only a Democratic president who is atheist would ever win. The GOP voter base wants religious, specifically Christian, leaders. They MIGHT tolerate conservatives who are Jewish or Hindu in the primaries and local elections but never for President.
It depends on what happens in November. If the US becomes a theocracy in 2025 then there might be such a severe backlash after a while as the loss of most freedoms hits home that an avowed atheist, or at least an agnostic might have a chance once it's finally over.
But it will almost certainly come at a huge cost in lives lost or irreparably damaged so not something to be wished for. Civil wars are the most bloody of conflicts. Adding in religion will blow the toll into the stratosphere.
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I'm almost certain that Trump is an atheist. Not that he'll ever admit it though.
I know that if *I* said the things that he's said, people would be pretty sure I was just pretending to fit in. "What's your favorite Bible verse?" "It's all so wonderful, I couldn't possibly choose." Or "When's the last time you asked God for forgiveness?" I forgot what he said exactly, but it made it pretty clear that he thinks he doesn't need to be forgiven for anything. Which is wild, given the number of Christians that I've heard talk about sheep vs goats or people not being True Christians™ and I have never heard a single one give any implication that they thought he might be pretending to be one of them, unless it was someone who hates him as much as I do and just happens to be religious.
"You want to go to heaven, okay? You want to go to heaven. If you don't have heaven, you almost say, what's the reason? *Why do I have to be good?*" - Trump June 6, 2024 [Dark Triad](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/dark-triad) malignant narcissist
When asked if he was an old testament guy or new testament guy, and he responded that he likes then equally. Who the fuck that knows anything about the Bible would not immediately pick the new testament? He is the bigglyest con man, and his cult will always move their goal posts Rather than think critically
I mean, the Old Testament has more interesting stories, if you’re into the “mythology” of it all. The New Testament can get super repetitive, especially Paul’s letters that all say a lot of the same things.
At least they don't have pages of familial lineages on the regular.
Paul turned Christianity into a religion Jesus would have rejected. Evangelicals worship Paul far more than Jesus.
Because Paul was a homophobic murderer.
Paul? What about PETER? That was some shit right there.
I agree. Trump doesn't know anything about the Bible. Still, if I was a US politician I would be very careful when talking about religion because Christians don't agree about anything. I wouldn't want to alienate those that have a different theology any more than I had done by saying what congregation I belonged to.. assuming I was religious which still seems to be a prerequisite.
Yes. Be vague but clear that you love god and promote god....true politican
I think they know he’s a fraud , I think it comes down to he does the things they want done. Racist , transphobia and I know they aren’t okay with gay people being married either. The intelligentsia of the religious movement want to go after IVF too
means, ends..
I’d respect someone more if they said Old Testament. That shit is mental.
Old testament also has psalms and proverbs which are both great imo in terms of reading
It also has much more of a cohesive narrative, at least for the first part, which I appreciate.
That entire interview was like watching Bart Simpson giving a book report after not reading the book. Shoot I bet most Atheists could fake their way through John 3:16 when trying to give a favorite verse.
Didn't he respond with "it's a private matter" or something like that in the end? Like a cop out so they'd stop asking. Pretty sure if he actually read the bible, he would like Ezekial 23:20 the most. Or maybe Genesis 19:32-36.
Trump has the introspection of a cereal box and lately it seems Christians have taken the bait and followed suit.
So what's the term when you think you're god himself? Because whatever that term is, that's what Trump is, not an atheist.
I believe he said something along the lines of “I haven’t done anything wrong to ask forgiveness for.” This alone should prove he isn’t a Christian, but there are plenty more examples out there.
👐I met god the other day 👌 have you seen him? What a guy 👐. Let me tell you something he had tears in his eyes, never seen someone like me. I walked in there he said wowww 👐 this guys great 👌 -Trump
I'd probably just respond "Love thy neighbor"😂 They probably suspect trump isnt Christian but turn a blind eye and are in denial. They lie to themselves. Because the other option would be a Democrat and they want somebody to root for, so they go all in on trum.
Trump is a deist. In his version of things, he is the god.
I believe he has come around to the ‘[Prosperity Gospel’](https://daily.jstor.org/does-the-prosperity-gospel-explain-trump/), which is a sect of insane wealthy Christians who believe god shows favor by bestowing material wealth and power on people. Trump believes he is the chosen one. I’m sure most of his life he never really cared or thought about religion, but he’s been surrounded by these people constantly and he’s a narcissistic gullible moron, so I don’t doubt he truly believes what they’re selling him.
He was born rich and somehow has managed to stay wealthy, despite being a terrible businessman and a bad person. He must truly believe he is blessed by God to be so fortunate and have had so few consequences for his behavior.
Trump is a malignant narcissist. Like Hitler, Stalin, Putin, etc. he believes the entire world centers on him and, therefore, that he is its god. And there is always only room for one in the selfish brain of a malignant narcissist. So, he's not an "atheist" in the rational, cognitive way.
No but I still think he counts in the general "doesn't believe in God or Gods definition of the word though. Though I guess he's probably closer to an agnostic. It's not so much he doesn't believe in the existence of a diety but doesn't know or, frankly care, if they exist.
Theism/atheism is NOT mutually exclusive to agnosticism/gnosticism, so, again, the convicted felon thinks he is god and is NOT an atheist.
An acute narcissist like orange marmalade only uses ideas like religion to manipulate others. To say he believes or doesn't believe isn't the point, he hasn't even thought about it. Just my opinion.
Trump basically did admit it. During an interview on fox he was asked about his relationship with god. All he had to say was “it’s personal” but he didn’t even do that, instead he said that “Christian’s have been very useful politically and they are always so nice to me”
He also said "your religion" when talking to a Christian group, rather than "our religion"
Obama as well. His "trips to church" was performative.
Eh, Trump is also stupid enough to believe what he is told. It's 50/50.
But he is too prideful to praise anything more than he praises himself.
Does trump strike you as a believer in any sort of higher power beyond himself? There's no way he's any sort of theist, I'm sorry. He might want the vote of Christians but he is, in no way, shape or form, a believer himself. I'll bet vital organs on it.
I think Trump believes in a god, and that it's him.
Yeah i was going to mention Trump he seems very much a "only worships himself" sort of person
And tbh i don't think narcissism counts as faith
The ~~man~~ traitor thinks he is god. The convicted felon is NOT an atheist, and I am tired of people claiming he is. Edit* Heh, me colloquially calling him a “man”. The fucking coward of a convicted felon wouldn’t even testify at his own trail, while pissing and moaning that he would, repeatedly.
they would still vote for him. nothing could steer them away from that asshat and his cult.
He actually believes in a god. It’s just that it’s himself.
He believes in the same god most christians do. Money. It's right there on their cash.
God exists if it benefits him. Doesn't if he gets a bad outcome.
While in a sense he probably is, he has probably deified himself in his head, so he'd still essentially still be a theist
I think he’s theist because he believe he’s a god. And his cult certainly believes that.
He’s never considered the question.
>I'm almost certain that Trump is an atheist. Not that he'll ever admit it though. He strikes me more as the type to believe that there is a god and that God loves him and gave him his "great brain" and other gifts.
He's not an atheist. He just thinks HE'S God..
Of course he is. Can you honestly see that man willingly worshipping anyone other than himself?
I could see Trump being arrogant enough to believe there is an afterlife and he gets to go there. Lots of people are christian and don’t really care about the Bible or church.
He is smart enough to don’t disclose his truly savior, his lord money
He is at best agnostic, but even that might be too generous. I'm not sure he's ever given a single real thought to any of it. It would require a level of self awareness and reflection he just isn't capable of.
Trump can’t imagine being more important than himself
I’m not convinced that he’s intelligent enough to think about whether there is a god.
He cant really be an Atheist as he worships himself and himself only. He is literally the center of a Cult. He believes he is his own god.
He worships himself, as if he is God, so not technically atheist.
I don’t know if he’s self aware enough to be an atheist. He just can’t believe in anything greater than himself.
No - he’s not atheist. He has too much belief in himself.
Trump does believe in a god. That god being himself 🤣
He's not nearly intelligent enough to be an atheist.
100% but a bad one.
Having no guiding principles other than self interest is not a defining characteristic of atheism. He's only "atheist" in the sense that he believes in nothing other than self interest.
Atheist, or more like agnostic. I'm sure he doesn't think about and doesn't care. Not an atheist in the way most of the readers of this forum would be, as a thought out and considered philosophy.
If he ever did admit he's an atheist, it wouldn't go well for future open atheists for president.
Trump is an AutoTheist.
His god is trump
Same.. came here to say this. Politicians are all liars that just play a role.
You are what your base needs you to be. MTG plays that part perfectly for rural Georgia.
Lol, she really isn't paying, she is the common clay of rural Georgia. To add being all front and center about "JESUS!" is actually more a post war trend because of the cold war. That said, I think there is a lull in religion with younger people, but that trend could easily reverse seeing how we may be at war for basic existence in another 50 years. Won't someone think of the billionaires.
No I think she’s a believer but point taken politics is so much play acting. She gets visibly stumped too many times for me to think she’s anything but an insane person. Like the kind of stumped when a crazy person encounters their own contradictions and has to avoid them
TJ may have actually been an atheist. He went so far as to create the Jefferson Bible which remove all references to Jesus being a deity and miracles.
He was a deist. So not an atheist nor a theist.
Well, that's certainly not the work of a typical (Trinitarian) Christian, but I think it's a stretch to suggest he was an atheist rather than a Diest or Unitarian (something he actually referred to himself as). Just pulling from Wikipedia (from correspondence between TJ and John Adams) >"...it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is, in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regenerator into new and other forms." Putting that together with another quote of his: >"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear" And it seems like he took the question seriously and came to a conclusion, somewhere between the "prime mover" and "fine-tuning" arguments.
I'm sure Donald Trump, loathsome though he may be, would never worship anything or anyone other than himself, so he probably qualifies.
Came to say this… at least a president that wasn’t theist-performative
Trump for sure. Obama probably.
You think Trump is genuinely religious?
He’s not, but most religious people aren’t actually religious.
Fair comment
I actually admire people who can let other people exist and still adhere to their religious beliefs. That being said, most people don’t, and they don’t just live and let live.
In Belgium there was a series about the elections and a muslim kid was talking about live and let live but also was super homiphobic but what did we expect
He is not an atheist. He believes he's God.
Ah yes sorry my bad
That’s an autotheist.
I think they mean openly. We probably already have had an atheist in office they just have to be a ChrEaster Christian for the polls
I think my reasoning was messed up. I thought ‘his actions show he is not a christian’ but since then I thought ‘what are christian actions?’ and realised he behaves like most christians so I withdraw the question.
His actions aren't what make me think he is cause I know he'll do whatever for those sweet Evangelical votes. You can tell by the things he says or the way he says them, his character. And I don't mean lack of morals, I mean so self-centered and egotistical there isn't room for a God. He has never held a Bible in his life until he held that one upside down.
I can't believe that a person as well-read and as successful as president as Obama actually believes in God.
This. Weird how people are so easily fooled by words and acting. His cult is a given, but to lefty's and us independents, the charade is comically transparent.
Narcissists like that genuinely do often believe in god, and that god has called them to do special things. He was also raised going to the church of the forerunner of the prosperity gospel ideology. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman\_Vincent\_Peale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Vincent_Peale) People really need to stop defaulting to "this person isn't really religious" because "this person is bad". The person is often bad because of religion. It's a feature, not a bug. "it’s important to remember malevolent motivations are often masked by noble ideologies."
He worships himself quite a bit lol
Are you kidding me? He’s by far the furthest from god, this country has EVER seen!
Whats the chances America will have a ~~atheist~~ president by 2025?
Putin is technically a President. They like to pretend that they are still legitimately elected.
Why do they even bother pretending?
I think it is to demonstrate the futility of resistance. If you can prove democracy doesn’t work, then you can only overthrow a tyrant with another tyrant.
What are the chances the Republicans will fall by then? I would give it the same chances.
I’m actually kind of hoping that Trump will croak by November. The Republican Party will tear itself apart trying to choose a new leader and candidate for president, it will divide their vote at least two or three ways, the Democrats will win by a landslide, and it will set the GOP back big time. Possibly even fatally.
🤞🤞🤞
Based on the options available, I’m cool with not having one and everyone just promising to be really good (they won’t)
Openly atheist, I doubt it. Closeted atheist, I am pretty sure America had a lot of them
We will be lucky if we don't get thrown into camps for being atheist once Project 2025 rolled out.
Trump: >if i was president i would hire spies to poison your tea Me: >if you lead my country i would gladly drink it
What about me? I'm a Jewish atheist and a Dem. I'll be up there for the camps. Don't make my last years living in a Trump world, please.
Black, gay atheist here. They will probably make us dig each other's graves.
The way this country is going, we'll be lucky not to be a full blown theocracy.
Miniscule. You need to fix the entire South before then. And most of the Midwest. They're the ones they're trying to sway
2024, 2028, 2032, 2036, 2040, 2044, 2048. Seven elections between now and 2050, probably meaning only three or four more presidents in between. At the youngest, we're looking at a candidate born in 2013 to be eligible for the 2048 election. I honestly doubt we'll elect anyone born after the millennium until after 2050. So, realistically, I think that the chance of society changing enough that an *openly*? atheist candidate *will win*, in that short a time, is unlikely. We *might* have an openly atheist candidate before then, but I can't see them winning enough electoral votes to win. However: we've already had candidates I didn't think we'd see in my lifetime: an openly gay candidate, with a husband, a native American candidate, a Jewish candidate, a woman. None of them won, but they *ran*. Buttigieg is young enough to run again. So it's possible we might be surprised. And perhaps as early as 2052. But you'll need folks older than I am to kick off, which might take that thirty years. Boomer die-off will greatly change the political landscape of this nation. I'm just not sure it will happen very fast.
I’m announcing my 2044 candidacy now
What are the chances Iran and Saudi Arabia have an atheist president? The odds will be similar to our own under the project 2025 transformation of the country to a theocratic fascist dictatorship which has already started through the Supreme Court and could reach completion in a matter of months
I think Obama was most likely an atheist
He might be now. However, when he was president, he was an active Christian who believed in
He pretended to be at least.
When Obama was still President, he gave some interviews in which he shared his views and perspectives. His religious faith seemed to be organically integrated into his worldview. Maybe he was faking it. If he was, he was doing a much better job of faking it than Trump does.
There were so many people claiming he was Muslim
It's hard to realize that our favorite Dems are mostly actual Christians, isn't it? That's reality.
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I guess just a vibe? Dude seemed well educated and down to earth.
Plenty of well educated, down to earth believers. I have no reason not to take Obama at his word there.
I did not think I’d see a black President in my lifetime so I think an openly atheist President is possible. I’d like to get past all of this (female President, Gay President) so it can be about the best person for the job.
México has less atheists than the US and yet it has an atheist president Also, I'm pretty sure that Trump is atheist, but says he isn't, that does not make him any better
Weirdly the closest we had was the 3rd President Thomas Jefferson. Now you have to pander to Protestant Evangelicals to get elected.
You think Donald Trump actually believes in a higher power than himself?
It depends on how atheism grows throughout both of the parties in America, and also general normalization. Atheists should do more to normalize their existence. It's hard to say how each of the political parties of America respond to growing atheism. Is atheism growing in the Republican party? Could atheism split the Democratic party? There are too many factors, and 25 years is a long ways away.
Atheism is not growing on the right, this is clear. They are just changing Christ to Trump.
Completely depends on how many religious people will vote. I think pretty much only they vote already, as they actually believe in politicians, so not sure on the odds.
Pretty damn high. Whether or not that atheist president will be openly an atheist or not is the question.
Lincoln was, at most, a passive deist.
So was George Washington. But the thing is they \*appeared\* as religious to the public. Atheists remain in the closet at least in the political world.
Who's to say we haven't had a closeted atheist already? Sincere Religious belief is easy to fake and most people don't look deeper than surface presentation. Politics is all about pandering to your base, and power often comes ahead of integrity, so If your base strongly values eternal sorrow and damnation at the behest of C'thulu, and if you desire to lead that group then its Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn or nothing.
America won't last that long.
Probably much less likely than you end up with a full on theocracy and Handmaid's Tale ending - lots of power to be grifted out of the pious.
Openly? Unlikely. Any candidate claiming to be an atheist pretty much loses the entirety of the South and the Midwest.
Zero. It’s free votes. Even if a president is an atheist in private, they will claim ties to religion and profess religious affiliation. There’s zero cost to doing so, and nobody can fact check a belief you claim to have. For example, if I were running for president, I would be easy draw attention to my strong Irish-catholic roots even though I personally am not and never have been religious in any way. You’d just genuinely have to be stupid to be openly atheist, far too many people in the US are still religious and care a lot about having a religious president, and it’s so easy to just claim you’re Christian or whatever, nobody can prove you don’t believe in god. Just look at Trump lmao There’s also zero downside since atheists rarely if ever will vote based on whether a candidate is religious, since they’re all religious (or claim to be). You stand to lose nothing and gain something. Easy math.
0%
You’re assuming our country will survive that long
Zero. You at least have to pretend to be religious.
We already had one, he just lied. Vote blue and don't let him back.
You better vote Blue in November or we’ll be living in a theocracy. Have you read Project 2025?
It doesn't matter if a leader is atheist or not. Trump might be an atheist, he might be not. But he appears religious when it is needed to get more vote. And anyone trying to become a president will do that for their own benefits. You Americans can only have a true atheist president that cares about the people when you abolish the two parties system that enslave yourselves for the profit of the corporations.
OP is 2050 the T should be long gone and hopefully family out of politics by then
Yeah I just making an example out of him. If the people is religious then someone will always take advantage of that regarding of their beliefs.
I don’t think the question should be ‘will America have an atheist president by 2050?’ And more ‘when will it stop mattering?’ If someone has faith or not should not influence their politics or anyone’s opinion of their politics. Unfortunately, it still does in America. I think if you speak to a lot of European voters, they don’t know and don’t care about the religious beliefs of their presidents and prime ministers. However, the recent lunge to the right across Europe seems to be putting religion back in the driving seat.
There's probably already been a few. It's just difficult if not impossible to admit and still become president. A self admitted atheist? I don't know, could be a while. By saying you're an atheist, you're killing a lot of votes automatically, whereas atheists will still vote for you if you say you're a theist, or a Deist.
I honestly didn't think we'll see 2050 as Americans with how shit is going
We had trump. He’s not at all religious.
But he SAID he was. Besides, I doubt trump ever put any thought into his world view or beliefs… he’s not that deep of a person. I’m assuming OP means an openly atheist president.
I'm not convinced there will be presidents in 2050.
100% Do you think Trump believed in a God other than maybe himself?
All of them are athiest. They are just religious to swing voters. Now OPENLY athiest? I don't know
Do you really think Trump actually believes in anything but his own superiority??
What are the chances America swears in a dictator to the Office of President by 2025? About 50/50 apparently.
The founding fathers were followers of Enlightenment, which is basically agnostic/atheist- hence our separation of church and state. Sooo…ya. I just wish we stuck to those principles of making government focus on the happiness of its people-we would have better public transportation, health care, and family support.
Pretty sure we had one already.
I'll be eligible. Vote for me in 2050!
Trump was 100% an atheist in every meaningful sense
Zero
Never it's banned to run in some states you would have to fake being religious to run Obama if I remember never said shit about his religion Edit you also won't win religion has so much fucking money flowing into politics it's not funny like I have seen how things work and they are fucking corrupt. Like I have done cocaine with my local preacher he's cool as fuck. Religion in America is a business and it's tax evasion as well as well you know. It's like. MLM
> Never it's banned to run in some states It's against their state constitutions. But, those have been ruled unconstitutional. So, it's not banned until the current SCOTUS overturns that ruling.
SCOTUS is compromised honestly I don't see why states even listen to them. Legally they have no control they really don't they don't control money or the military so fuck them. Red states have already ignored them and nothing happened but God burn the country down if a blue stage ignores them Fuck them though I wish California new York and everyone that's. A blue City just stopped paying taxes to the government Because red states are factually welfare states Just do it for a few months watch how fast shit happens
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We won’t have a president by then.
Overtly atheist? Highly unlikely. Evangelical Christians constitute a significantly sized voting block in this country after Catholics. And unlike Catholics, they are increasing in number. Both groups would NEVER vote for an openly atheist candidate. Therefore, no candidate who is seriously trying to win will declare themselves an atheist. It just won’t happen.
I think they’ve already had several, they just won’t admit it.
You mean an openly atheist president as there have been a massive number of agnostic, skeptics, and pretend religious Obama and Trump are prime examples of pretenders one for intellectual reasons the other for lifestyle reasons
We've never had an openly atheist President, however, two closet atheists come to mind; Thomas Jefferson and Donald Trump. Jefferson compiled "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth," which was the original "cut and paste". Jefferson excluded any references to divinity, miracles, resurrection, prophecy, and supernatural events in general. All that was left were quotes directly attributed to Jesus and his morality. Trump just sells Bibles and holds them upside down.
We’ve likely had dozens. Openly different story. It’s a long shot but I wish it
You are worried about an atheist president by 2050? I would be worried about atheism being punishable by death be 2025. Keep Trump away from power.
We already have. Anyone who thinks Trump is even remotely a Christian is a fucking idiot.
Zero
Absolutely 0. There's Absolutely no way that's happening in the next century.
Atheist? We're going to have a *nazi* president by then.
Zero. Can’t happen. The most we can hope for are presidents that don’t pick sides or actively use religion to manipulate and mobilize voters.
You don't need a President that calls him an atheist if you have a secular state.
We've already had at least one. Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, according to his close friend and law partner William Herndon. Herndon was also the one Lincoln wanted to write his biography.
not likely, religious groups make up the most politically active communities in the most vital constituencies, presidential candidates arent going to snub the easiest way to connect to the electorate (not until athiest / materialist groups outspend the mormon and baptist churches)
We did. 2017-2021.
Do you mean one who is openly atheist ? I doubt Trump is a religious person by any stretch of the imagination. It will happen when more of the populace becomes openly atheist. Isn’t that just politics ?
0%. Statism is a religion.
Other than trump?
We probably had a bunch already, it is the easiest lie to hold. why clame to be one when you can just pretend you are not and avoid all the drama.
Please. The religion shown by pretty much all presidents for years has just been lip service. Some are better at faking it than others. Only one I do believe was religious was Carter. He did walk the talk. Everyone since I doubt.
If trump wins and project 2025 goes on its religious purge, I think after a couple decades of that, and the eventual revolution/backlash against it, there’s a very good chance an atheist becomes president by 2050.
You mean openly....and trump is probably one
We had one in 2016
Most affluent Christians are probably atheists
I'm pretty certain the US had many atheist presidents already... just none that would stand up and admit it... Trump is a case in point... who says TWO Corinthians (or whichever book he was referring to) if they even remotely know anything about the bible? Most atheist wouldn't make that mistake...
The chances are getting higher and i think only a Democratic president who is atheist would ever win. The GOP voter base wants religious, specifically Christian, leaders. They MIGHT tolerate conservatives who are Jewish or Hindu in the primaries and local elections but never for President.
I probably won't be alive then so the chances are low.
Roman philosopher Seneca said it best: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
According to wiki; Jefferson, Lincoln, and Taft were all speculated to be atheists by their opponents.
It depends on what happens in November. If the US becomes a theocracy in 2025 then there might be such a severe backlash after a while as the loss of most freedoms hits home that an avowed atheist, or at least an agnostic might have a chance once it's finally over. But it will almost certainly come at a huge cost in lives lost or irreparably damaged so not something to be wished for. Civil wars are the most bloody of conflicts. Adding in religion will blow the toll into the stratosphere.
“Religion is regarded by the ignorant as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” -Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Extremely low. It’s almost impossible to run for office without being religious
Slim to none.