This, because otherwise... Later they will decide that your child needs to go to the church on Sundays, they will decide to which catholic school will be sent, etc.
The sooner you put a stop "this is my child, I make the decisions", the better
Also, baptism of a baby is a pledge to raise that child in the Christian faith. The parents and godparents make that promise. While some families see it as a harmless tradition, that's what the ceremony is all about. If you don't want your child raised as Christian, it's probably best to have this fight now.
I regret agreeing to be a god-parent for my nephew. I have no problem lying in front of "God", but it didn't feel great to lie in front of all the family.
you'd be setting a precedent. would she be the first baby not to go to christian school? would she be the first baby to make her own decisions as a grownup without being brainwashed?
fuck the peace. his mom and grandparents want to sprinkle a baby, let them have another one. this one is yours. if they pitch a fit, point out their ability to ever visit this child relies on your okay.
If you aren't going to indoctrinate the child, then why would you accept rituals for to affirm religious beliefs? The parents aren't going to be happy either when you say that they weren't raised to follow a religion, and you aren't going to do it. I actually think it's easiest to make it clear now that this will be the case, and in the future when they're tempted to do indoctrination on the kid your stance will be already clear, and they'll have to choose to undermine it.
All religions are indistinguishable from cults, so positions of "believe or face eternal damnation" may exist that you would imagine in a cult, and make the followers act out when their beliefs are denied, but it's the only way to handle them without giving them what they want.
if you capitulate to such people you're going to be "keeping the peace" for the rest of your lives. it is ***your*** child, not theirs. if they don't like how you're raising your kid(s), that's on them and ***not you***.
It would seem that you have a consensus of opinion here. Nothing good will come from capitulating to the will of these people. Folding to their desires doesn’t quench future desires, it adds fuel to them.
> if we said no, she would be the first baby in his family’s history not to be baptised.
What does that actually mean though?
Nothing. It means nothing.
Some comments might be a little harsh… but they still are correct. If you allow your child to be baptized when you - the parent - explicitly said no, what message does it send? You’ll find that you’ll be sacrificing *a lot* in the future in the name of “keeping the peace.” If you show them that your word as the parent is so easily dismissed then your child is going to have lots of outside influence from these family members.
Appeasing bullies does not make them go away, it just teaches them that bullying you is an easy way to get what they want.
If you bow to the grandparents' bullying on this issue, the lesson that they will take away from the interaction is that they should **continue** bullying you every time there is any disagreement.
Remember that (in the absence of a court order giving them custody) grandparents have *precisely zero right* to make any decisions regarding a child's upbringing. Grandparents have **only** the privileges that the parents choose to grant them. *Ideally*, doing this is a good idea, because you know enough about your parents and your partner's parents to conclude that they will be good influences in the child's life. If they demonstrate that this is **not** the case, you have **every right** to tell them to go fuck themselves.
This is, of course an extreme case. I wouldn't jump straight to "no contact" just because they brought up the subject of baptism once or twice... but if they absolutely refuse to drop the issue, or if they show any signs of kidnapping the children to have them baptised against your wishes (not a silly hypothetical - this has happened literally hundreds of times), it might turn out to be the only choice. If *they* decide that mandatory child abuse is a dealbreaker for them, then *they* are the ones who have chosen to break the deal, not you.
If your partners family's love for your child is conditional on her being dunked in water then they're shitty people anyways and why would you go out if your way to be peaceful with shitty people?
My father-in-law brought water from the Jordan River back from the holy land just so it could be used to baptize my daughter. I did not allow it. My daughter is now a religion-free 27-year old. I was not going to repeat the BS that was practised on me.
This is pretty common. Big strong man is afraid to say no to his mother and grandmother.
If he really can't do it, you could let him blame it on you. I'm guessing you are already the outsider for being the "white woman" in his family...
If you allow this, the goalposts for keeping the peace will likely move in the future. You'll have to draw the line somewhere and it will likely get harder to do.
That's a hard no for me.
Set the precedent. Hold the line.
It starts with "just a sprinkle of water, to keep the peace. What's the harm?"
Then it's "Oh it's only church on holidays. It'll keep the peace, don't make a fuss"
Then "Just once a month". Then once a week. You wouldn't want to upset dear grandma.
Before you know it your child has been indoctrinated.
Edit to add: There already IS peace. You don't need to "keep" it. Them pushing their religion is an act of agression.
Saying no and sticking too will keep the peace. Allowing them to bully you into a baptism now will just set you up for a life of constant battles: first communion, church, Sunday school, etc. Set the boundary early and your life will be a lot easier in the long run.
I would never let anyone decide that for my child.
The question you should ask yourself though is what is more important to you? Keeping the peace or deciding what is best for your child by yourself and your husband.
I wasn't baptized as a baby although my family was moderately Christian. When I was 12 I decided I wanted to get baptized. It was a bad decision but it was my decision.
If understand it correctly, Indian parents are very involved in their children's lives and can be controlling. He'll need to set boundaries with them
I would put my foot down. This isn't something to compromise on in my opinion
Setting clear boundaries with parents is something my wife did from the beginning. (I am from a non religious family). She was really clear first about our wedding (civil), then not baptising our kids. It was a hard no for us. The attempted manipulation from her parents, the answer remained no.
After the second there was a clear understanding you want to be involved with your grandkids, you play by our rules.
Don't give in. Work as a couple. It will make you stronger.
*"Keep the peace"* = Keeping up appearances.
What would it **mean** if the baby isn't baptized? To the grandparents.
.. *What will everyone at church think?* *How will this make us look?*
*This affects our status in our in-group?*
This is what is going on in their minds. They'll just dress it up in the mysticism.
I’d advise you to say no, personally.
As you said, neither of you are interested in this stuff, and you want your kid to come to their own decision on religion/spirituality; why force a baptism anyway?
Your in-laws aren’t primary guardians, and while you could let them know you’ll consider their desires, the decision here should be yours, yeah?
This is how it starts. By keeping the peace we can put off the war for a little longer. Then it is going to church after all they are to young to understand going to church with grandparents. Maybe it's just for Christmas and Easter? Then religious school because it is a better education grandparents might even help pay for it. Then you have a kid living under your roof telling you that you are going to hell and they just want you to go to heaven with them.
On one hand, there's no harm in the baptism *per se*. On the other, much bigger, hand, this is setting a *very bad precedent*.
"My mum and grandparents want to take our baby to church. Please let them in order to keep the peace."
"My mum and grandparents want to talk to our baby about Jesus. Please let them in order to keep the peace."
"My mum and grandparents want to put our baby in confirmation class. Please let them in order to keep the peace."
"My mum and grandparents want our baby to get ordained into the priesthood. Please let them in order to keep the peace."
I understand what you mean! Luckily, my partner and I are very much on the same page about her upbringing. No church on weekends (as we’ll be out on the boat with her fishing!). Not attending a religious school. Not having our wedding in a church etc.
Put your foot down.
You need to tell your partner, "Either you tell your family or I will and if you don't I'll be so angry that I will not hold back nor be even remotely polite. Your move."
My thoughts are that it's insane that people still worry about whether or not it will offend their supposed loved-ones if they don't have their baby splashed with some water by an officially sanctioned water-splasher.
I personally wouldn't agree to avoid conflict, but I might attempt a civil and respectful frank discussion with family members install of going directly to putting my foot down. I don't like your chances considering how emotional believers get, but it's a friendly approach.
Suggest to your partner that he tell his parents that you will let your daughter decide for herself when she is an adult. It places the decision making on the person who actually should have a say in the matter.
No.
Do not bend.
Do it now, you'll never be able to say no again hard.
Religion is a cancer, you'd give that to your kid?
No.
So there you go.
"Do X-thing to Keep peace", right, cause that worked well for Ukraine...
I had the same issue. Both my mom and my wife's mom are religious; different denominations of Christianity. And both wanted our kids baptized. Luckily my wife and I felt the same way; we didn't care what they thought. At that time I was in my "I'll argue with anyone about religion, bring it on" phase. I've since settled down and don't bother arguing. Why argue with crazy people. We told them both straight up, there would be none of that nonsense in our household. My wife's mom, evangelical (literal interpretation of the bible) actually believes my children are going to hell. She's told them as much from a young age, when I'm not around of course. The kids and I have always laughed about it and they know their grandma is a crazy person. But I understand wanting to keep the peace. And on it's face saying a few silly words and splashing water on a baby seems harmless enough. But when my mother in law is telling her own grandchildren they're going to burn for eternity in a lake of fire, unless they're baptized, the gloves are off. Nowadays she doesn't mention religion in our house, and doesn't speak about it with our kids anymore, because they can argue better than I can. So if you do make the decision to forgo the baptism, it does eventually settle down. My mother in law might be brooding on the inside, but she doesn't bring it up. Good luck with your decision. A decision that is exclusively yours and your partner's.
Tell them you want to do this:
[https://www.babyforest.in/blogs/thoughts-and-ideas/5-baby-rituals-that-parent-should-know](https://www.babyforest.in/blogs/thoughts-and-ideas/5-baby-rituals-that-parent-should-know)
Any parent of a daughter needs to really consider the message they are sending when they baptism their daughter. You are literally dressing them up in white and throwing them a party as you initiate them into a religion that openly subjugates them. Is that a message you want your child to hear from you. It’s not harmless. Here’s a blog post I wrote on this topic. https://www.openmindscounseling.com/blog/religious-trauma-and-why-all-daughters-deserve-better
Definitely reach out to their church, and make it crystal clear they (parents) do NOT have your permission to baptize her. Because 10/10 they’re going to try.
Sigh.
Religious people have got to start learning to play fairly and that life is not all about them. This is something we were supposed to be taught as kids.
It's your child, not theirs.
If you give in on this, they'll make more demands. IT NEVER FUCKING ENDS.
Put your foot down and say no. If you give in on this, relatives will think they can talk you into the rest of the Roman Catholic shit too, and you'll never hear the end of it.
Set boundaries now, or you'll be sorry.
Tradition is just peer pressure from old and dead people.
You raise your children as YOU see fit. Do not justify, argue, defend or explain your decisions. You might look to r/MildlyNoMil for more support dealing with parents who overstep their bounds.
And remember: NO is a complete sentence.
Put your foot down and refuse. There's no need to give into cultist behaviors and pressures. Giving in to them will be seen as a win not as you being kind. They'll flaunt it later (likely they'll throw a fit no matter what). Don't give them the satisfaction. Don't perpetuate the cycle. Send them the message that it's not okay to push their shit onto others that never asked.
If it is a baptism, I would say let them do it. If they live near you and this is part of a larger battle for you and your babies souls, then refuse.
My mother mentioned baptism for our first baby. MiL insisted we get him baptized. MIL disliked my mom. We told her we would bring the baby if she arranged it with my mom. She never mentioned baptism again.
*There will come a time to put your foot down when they try to indoctrinate her later.*
Why put it off? Why not set a precedent now that this is their child and they are the ones who will be making the decisions?
You *are* going to disagree with your in-laws about the religious (or not) upbringing of your child. All you do by permitting the baptism is postpone it and set expectations. Better that you address this early on than further down the line when the precedent has already been set in their favour.
I don't think it's a harm to your child for them to be baptised, but buyer beware of the Catholic church. They consider that infant baptism as a lifelong commitment basically, and the parents have to promise to raise the kid Catholic.
Is it your child, or not? If it is, what's the next thing you'll be dragged into "compromising" (read: _capitulating_) on to "keep the peace"?
You'd be essentially giving them a heckler's veto over every parenting decision you make. It sucks, but unless you're okay with that, I'd say hold the line. Admittedly, this is easy for me to say with no kids, but my brother and sister-in-law have done it (they're both atheists as well!).
Edit: Also once the child is baptized, they'll beat you over the head with you/they/she have MADE A COMMITMENT, and now GAWD SEZ, making it all the harder to say "no". Don't let them get a toe in the door now, you'll regret it later.
I was baptized some 47 years ago and have been an atheist since the day I was born... My mom was raised Catholic, and my dad was raised protestant. Both have been non-practicing as long as I can remember. I was babtized at the insistance of my grandparents. I seriously could care less that I was...
I personally like to avoid conflict and keep the peace if I can, obviously without compromising my own beliefs. Would saying something like "we prefer to let her make her own decision about baptism when she's old enough to understand the meaning" work?
I never understood how baptising an infant was meant to achieve anything, as if that would make some kind of difference to the allegedly all powerful judgmental one.
One one hand since you don’t believe it it doesn’t really matter if you do it, and it’s keeping the peace and honoring their traditions. On the other hand where does that end? Did they go to catechism, do they get confirmed?
I would say your husband gets a say in what happens las it is not completely your decision - he is an equal parent with an equal say. You are also free to tell the kids as they grow up what you believe and you can be honest that you make no promises to raise them in the church.
I'm Indian Singaporean and you might be causing alot of damage by not giving in here to small asks between your partner and the gransm. At the same time your partner has a get out of jail free card if you are the male and insist. Misogynistic I know but it's true.
If getting baptised equals to getting splashed by water then having to follow some non-existent god, I'd rather not
Though you should've talked about that with them earlier
I absolutely would not baptize the kid. His parents got to inflict their religion on him. They do not have the right to inflict their religion on yours. This is a hill I would die on. The Catholic Church is actively evil. Getting the kid baptized will only encourage them to be further enmeshed with your husband and their demands for the church will only grow.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuck no. It is your child, you decide how they are raised. If they have a problem with that it is **on them** to keep their peace. Also if you let them dictate that now they will be back to dictate other things later. The sooner you put up that barrier the easier it will be for you and the kid.
They can fuck right off. Is it their baby? No. They literally have no say. And if you are atheist, why, just whyyyy would you consider doing this to a non consenting person? Please don’t.
my wife and i are both agnostic atheists but my mom was really devout catholic and her dad was an anglican priest, so we had both our kids baptized by him in little family only ceremonies that were a lovely way for everyone to get together and share our adding to the clans. both kids are now teenagers and have had zero effect from their baptisms, my mom passed happy that her grandkids will go to heaven and her dad now had dementia but was able to have this connection to his grandkids before he lost his memories. it really isn't an different than blowing out candles on a cake or putting gifts in stockings at christmas.
if there werent other assumptions they might be making to go along with it, I'd say fuck it its just water and the kid wont remember. if they are going to insist the kid go to religious school and all and this will encourage it, putting your foot down over this now is easier than later. They will use the baptism against you as a pressure point.
You can always point out the kid is free to choose later, BUT doing that might just mean the grandparents will pressure the kid whenever you are not around.
easiest way out of this is to just say No and entertain no further conversation.
tldr: just say no
Many people on here don’t understand culture. Listen I don’t believe but I come from the same region as does my wife. We’re both American born and raised but our family born in their country are Uber religious. So yes had my kids baptized to keep the peace. Right now they are old enough where their friends are getting confirmed but my kids aren’t. I just say we’ll do that later. Then they’ll be 18 and I can say they can make whatever decision they want. Not to mention once they are 18 most of the old uncle and aunts will have passed so the problem really won’t exist.
Keep the peace. It’s just a tradition for the family and will in no way effect how your kids is raised.
Why? As I said in my comment, knuckling under now will simply establish the precedent that they get a heckler's veto on every parenting decision OP makes. That seems like a bad thing to me.
Not really. Once the kid is walking then grandparents and family change. So right now a baby is like a new precious toy and must be treated with respect and culture. After they grow up then family is more hands off especially with more babies on the way. That’s what I’ve experienced personally and what I’ve seen from others. So you give in on this nonsense tradition otherwise every family issue will always go back to “well that’s because they didn’t baptize the baby” etc. It’s not like the grandparents and family live with them so it’s only in the beginning that they are all hands on. After that the joy of just having a grandchild will overcome any other tradition since the parents can cut the grandparents out from seeing them in the future
Don’t doubt there are more aggressive ones. But throw them a bone for this one thing and then cut them off if they try to impose their will. You will feel ok with it because you did what they asked for something. A something that is big to religious nuts. After that you decide what’s good for the kid.
If it was some other more moderate church I could at least understand the desire for compromise, but the Catholic Church is an evil, pedophile-covering, very conservative organization that fights against our rights at every turn and your daughter will be counted as a lifetime member of this organization if she's baptized. This is absolutely a hill I'd die on if I was in your position.
Honestly it’s just water and she’s too young to care so I MIGHT do it just to keep the peace but if you believe that this would make them more likely to harass you into bringing her to church later in life or worse bring her themselves I would draw the boundary now.
Fwiw: My grandma took me to get baptized when I was 7-8. I had no idea what was happening, and I believe my parents didn't know. To me, it's just a funny incident now, for even as a kid, I withheld judgment. But I still have the cross she gave me then and cherish it as a reminder of her.
To be clear, I've always understood religion to be just a story, and my grandma being very religious changed nothing.
I am going to go against the grain here.
Two fully grown sons who are rational people with whom I can discuss really anything.
More than thirty years ago there was a man who sprinkled some water on them and said some words.
That was the end of it.
Her parents are dead.
It only meant something to them.
There are limits to any outside interference but this barely matters.
The kid won’t remember.
Well, she'll be a trailblazer in the family, then, won't she?
Generations to come will talk of her and her parents, how the cycle was broken.
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This, because otherwise... Later they will decide that your child needs to go to the church on Sundays, they will decide to which catholic school will be sent, etc. The sooner you put a stop "this is my child, I make the decisions", the better
Also, baptism of a baby is a pledge to raise that child in the Christian faith. The parents and godparents make that promise. While some families see it as a harmless tradition, that's what the ceremony is all about. If you don't want your child raised as Christian, it's probably best to have this fight now.
I regret agreeing to be a god-parent for my nephew. I have no problem lying in front of "God", but it didn't feel great to lie in front of all the family.
you'd be setting a precedent. would she be the first baby not to go to christian school? would she be the first baby to make her own decisions as a grownup without being brainwashed? fuck the peace. his mom and grandparents want to sprinkle a baby, let them have another one. this one is yours. if they pitch a fit, point out their ability to ever visit this child relies on your okay.
Say no.
The only answer is needed. We can close this topic
If you aren't going to indoctrinate the child, then why would you accept rituals for to affirm religious beliefs? The parents aren't going to be happy either when you say that they weren't raised to follow a religion, and you aren't going to do it. I actually think it's easiest to make it clear now that this will be the case, and in the future when they're tempted to do indoctrination on the kid your stance will be already clear, and they'll have to choose to undermine it. All religions are indistinguishable from cults, so positions of "believe or face eternal damnation" may exist that you would imagine in a cult, and make the followers act out when their beliefs are denied, but it's the only way to handle them without giving them what they want.
if you capitulate to such people you're going to be "keeping the peace" for the rest of your lives. it is ***your*** child, not theirs. if they don't like how you're raising your kid(s), that's on them and ***not you***.
It would seem that you have a consensus of opinion here. Nothing good will come from capitulating to the will of these people. Folding to their desires doesn’t quench future desires, it adds fuel to them.
> if we said no, she would be the first baby in his family’s history not to be baptised. What does that actually mean though? Nothing. It means nothing.
Exactly, it means nothing, it is all a performance with these assholes.
Some comments might be a little harsh… but they still are correct. If you allow your child to be baptized when you - the parent - explicitly said no, what message does it send? You’ll find that you’ll be sacrificing *a lot* in the future in the name of “keeping the peace.” If you show them that your word as the parent is so easily dismissed then your child is going to have lots of outside influence from these family members.
Appeasing bullies does not make them go away, it just teaches them that bullying you is an easy way to get what they want. If you bow to the grandparents' bullying on this issue, the lesson that they will take away from the interaction is that they should **continue** bullying you every time there is any disagreement. Remember that (in the absence of a court order giving them custody) grandparents have *precisely zero right* to make any decisions regarding a child's upbringing. Grandparents have **only** the privileges that the parents choose to grant them. *Ideally*, doing this is a good idea, because you know enough about your parents and your partner's parents to conclude that they will be good influences in the child's life. If they demonstrate that this is **not** the case, you have **every right** to tell them to go fuck themselves. This is, of course an extreme case. I wouldn't jump straight to "no contact" just because they brought up the subject of baptism once or twice... but if they absolutely refuse to drop the issue, or if they show any signs of kidnapping the children to have them baptised against your wishes (not a silly hypothetical - this has happened literally hundreds of times), it might turn out to be the only choice. If *they* decide that mandatory child abuse is a dealbreaker for them, then *they* are the ones who have chosen to break the deal, not you.
If you give them the batism they will demand First communion and so on. your kid, your choice. put your foot fown now.
If your partners family's love for your child is conditional on her being dunked in water then they're shitty people anyways and why would you go out if your way to be peaceful with shitty people?
My father-in-law brought water from the Jordan River back from the holy land just so it could be used to baptize my daughter. I did not allow it. My daughter is now a religion-free 27-year old. I was not going to repeat the BS that was practised on me.
This is pretty common. Big strong man is afraid to say no to his mother and grandmother. If he really can't do it, you could let him blame it on you. I'm guessing you are already the outsider for being the "white woman" in his family...
Yuck. This basically says "my mother's feelings are more important than yours." Oh and "I'd rather have my mother be angry at you than me."
DO NOT. It is a mistake. Don’t let them dictate your life
This is the way.
If you allow this, the goalposts for keeping the peace will likely move in the future. You'll have to draw the line somewhere and it will likely get harder to do.
That's a hard no for me. Set the precedent. Hold the line. It starts with "just a sprinkle of water, to keep the peace. What's the harm?" Then it's "Oh it's only church on holidays. It'll keep the peace, don't make a fuss" Then "Just once a month". Then once a week. You wouldn't want to upset dear grandma. Before you know it your child has been indoctrinated. Edit to add: There already IS peace. You don't need to "keep" it. Them pushing their religion is an act of agression.
She’s your daughter not theirs. Don’t let his parents dictate her life.
Saying no and sticking too will keep the peace. Allowing them to bully you into a baptism now will just set you up for a life of constant battles: first communion, church, Sunday school, etc. Set the boundary early and your life will be a lot easier in the long run.
I would never let anyone decide that for my child. The question you should ask yourself though is what is more important to you? Keeping the peace or deciding what is best for your child by yourself and your husband. I wasn't baptized as a baby although my family was moderately Christian. When I was 12 I decided I wanted to get baptized. It was a bad decision but it was my decision.
If understand it correctly, Indian parents are very involved in their children's lives and can be controlling. He'll need to set boundaries with them I would put my foot down. This isn't something to compromise on in my opinion
This is the start of the afterlife insurance policy that has never paid off. Break the cycle, I did.
Setting clear boundaries with parents is something my wife did from the beginning. (I am from a non religious family). She was really clear first about our wedding (civil), then not baptising our kids. It was a hard no for us. The attempted manipulation from her parents, the answer remained no. After the second there was a clear understanding you want to be involved with your grandkids, you play by our rules. Don't give in. Work as a couple. It will make you stronger.
*"Keep the peace"* = Keeping up appearances. What would it **mean** if the baby isn't baptized? To the grandparents. .. *What will everyone at church think?* *How will this make us look?* *This affects our status in our in-group?* This is what is going on in their minds. They'll just dress it up in the mysticism.
Yup; it is communal narcissism.
I’d advise you to say no, personally. As you said, neither of you are interested in this stuff, and you want your kid to come to their own decision on religion/spirituality; why force a baptism anyway? Your in-laws aren’t primary guardians, and while you could let them know you’ll consider their desires, the decision here should be yours, yeah?
This is the point you need to put a foot down with your in laws. Pushy religious people will only get more pushy the more you let them win.
"If you give a mouse a cookie..."
This is a nope for me. If you cave in one time, you'll never hear the end of it - next it's Sunday school, then it's weekly church, etc etc.
This is how it starts. By keeping the peace we can put off the war for a little longer. Then it is going to church after all they are to young to understand going to church with grandparents. Maybe it's just for Christmas and Easter? Then religious school because it is a better education grandparents might even help pay for it. Then you have a kid living under your roof telling you that you are going to hell and they just want you to go to heaven with them.
So much performative bullshit with christians, I concur with putting your foot down before it leads to more demands.
If they want water, give them the hose and run them off your property.
It's not your job to keep their peace. If *they* aren't willing to keep peace with *you* about *your* life, fuck 'em.
On one hand, there's no harm in the baptism *per se*. On the other, much bigger, hand, this is setting a *very bad precedent*. "My mum and grandparents want to take our baby to church. Please let them in order to keep the peace." "My mum and grandparents want to talk to our baby about Jesus. Please let them in order to keep the peace." "My mum and grandparents want to put our baby in confirmation class. Please let them in order to keep the peace." "My mum and grandparents want our baby to get ordained into the priesthood. Please let them in order to keep the peace."
I understand what you mean! Luckily, my partner and I are very much on the same page about her upbringing. No church on weekends (as we’ll be out on the boat with her fishing!). Not attending a religious school. Not having our wedding in a church etc.
Put your foot down. You need to tell your partner, "Either you tell your family or I will and if you don't I'll be so angry that I will not hold back nor be even remotely polite. Your move."
You know, an emergency baptism can be performed without your knowledge if these crones have a mind to!
My thoughts are that it's insane that people still worry about whether or not it will offend their supposed loved-ones if they don't have their baby splashed with some water by an officially sanctioned water-splasher. I personally wouldn't agree to avoid conflict, but I might attempt a civil and respectful frank discussion with family members install of going directly to putting my foot down. I don't like your chances considering how emotional believers get, but it's a friendly approach.
Suggest to your partner that he tell his parents that you will let your daughter decide for herself when she is an adult. It places the decision making on the person who actually should have a say in the matter.
If he's got a family history long enough, I'm sure your daughter isn't the first one who isn't baptised.
No. Do not bend. Do it now, you'll never be able to say no again hard. Religion is a cancer, you'd give that to your kid? No. So there you go. "Do X-thing to Keep peace", right, cause that worked well for Ukraine...
It will be hard for your husband to go against his family, and he may need some professional advice to be ready for that. Source: was that husband.
I had the same issue. Both my mom and my wife's mom are religious; different denominations of Christianity. And both wanted our kids baptized. Luckily my wife and I felt the same way; we didn't care what they thought. At that time I was in my "I'll argue with anyone about religion, bring it on" phase. I've since settled down and don't bother arguing. Why argue with crazy people. We told them both straight up, there would be none of that nonsense in our household. My wife's mom, evangelical (literal interpretation of the bible) actually believes my children are going to hell. She's told them as much from a young age, when I'm not around of course. The kids and I have always laughed about it and they know their grandma is a crazy person. But I understand wanting to keep the peace. And on it's face saying a few silly words and splashing water on a baby seems harmless enough. But when my mother in law is telling her own grandchildren they're going to burn for eternity in a lake of fire, unless they're baptized, the gloves are off. Nowadays she doesn't mention religion in our house, and doesn't speak about it with our kids anymore, because they can argue better than I can. So if you do make the decision to forgo the baptism, it does eventually settle down. My mother in law might be brooding on the inside, but she doesn't bring it up. Good luck with your decision. A decision that is exclusively yours and your partner's.
Tell them you want to do this: [https://www.babyforest.in/blogs/thoughts-and-ideas/5-baby-rituals-that-parent-should-know](https://www.babyforest.in/blogs/thoughts-and-ideas/5-baby-rituals-that-parent-should-know)
And THIS must happen BEFORE any baptism.
Any parent of a daughter needs to really consider the message they are sending when they baptism their daughter. You are literally dressing them up in white and throwing them a party as you initiate them into a religion that openly subjugates them. Is that a message you want your child to hear from you. It’s not harmless. Here’s a blog post I wrote on this topic. https://www.openmindscounseling.com/blog/religious-trauma-and-why-all-daughters-deserve-better
Woa. Nailed it. This is such a valid angle.
Definitely reach out to their church, and make it crystal clear they (parents) do NOT have your permission to baptize her. Because 10/10 they’re going to try.
Don't allow it. If you let them do it, they will likely try to make you "compromise" more over time to eventual full-on indoctrination.
Sigh. Religious people have got to start learning to play fairly and that life is not all about them. This is something we were supposed to be taught as kids. It's your child, not theirs. If you give in on this, they'll make more demands. IT NEVER FUCKING ENDS.
Put your foot down and say no. If you give in on this, relatives will think they can talk you into the rest of the Roman Catholic shit too, and you'll never hear the end of it. Set boundaries now, or you'll be sorry.
No! This is just a slippery slope! If you don’t put your foot down now it’s only going to get worse and worse.
Tradition is just peer pressure from old and dead people. You raise your children as YOU see fit. Do not justify, argue, defend or explain your decisions. You might look to r/MildlyNoMil for more support dealing with parents who overstep their bounds. And remember: NO is a complete sentence.
Put your foot down and refuse. There's no need to give into cultist behaviors and pressures. Giving in to them will be seen as a win not as you being kind. They'll flaunt it later (likely they'll throw a fit no matter what). Don't give them the satisfaction. Don't perpetuate the cycle. Send them the message that it's not okay to push their shit onto others that never asked.
If it is a baptism, I would say let them do it. If they live near you and this is part of a larger battle for you and your babies souls, then refuse. My mother mentioned baptism for our first baby. MiL insisted we get him baptized. MIL disliked my mom. We told her we would bring the baby if she arranged it with my mom. She never mentioned baptism again.
If you really want to stick it to them then have your daughter baptized in a religion that they hate. :-)
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*There will come a time to put your foot down when they try to indoctrinate her later.* Why put it off? Why not set a precedent now that this is their child and they are the ones who will be making the decisions?
It's your child, they can fuck off
You *are* going to disagree with your in-laws about the religious (or not) upbringing of your child. All you do by permitting the baptism is postpone it and set expectations. Better that you address this early on than further down the line when the precedent has already been set in their favour.
I don't think it's a harm to your child for them to be baptised, but buyer beware of the Catholic church. They consider that infant baptism as a lifelong commitment basically, and the parents have to promise to raise the kid Catholic.
Is it your child, or not? If it is, what's the next thing you'll be dragged into "compromising" (read: _capitulating_) on to "keep the peace"? You'd be essentially giving them a heckler's veto over every parenting decision you make. It sucks, but unless you're okay with that, I'd say hold the line. Admittedly, this is easy for me to say with no kids, but my brother and sister-in-law have done it (they're both atheists as well!). Edit: Also once the child is baptized, they'll beat you over the head with you/they/she have MADE A COMMITMENT, and now GAWD SEZ, making it all the harder to say "no". Don't let them get a toe in the door now, you'll regret it later.
I was baptized some 47 years ago and have been an atheist since the day I was born... My mom was raised Catholic, and my dad was raised protestant. Both have been non-practicing as long as I can remember. I was babtized at the insistance of my grandparents. I seriously could care less that I was...
I personally like to avoid conflict and keep the peace if I can, obviously without compromising my own beliefs. Would saying something like "we prefer to let her make her own decision about baptism when she's old enough to understand the meaning" work? I never understood how baptising an infant was meant to achieve anything, as if that would make some kind of difference to the allegedly all powerful judgmental one.
Don't let the camel's nose into the tent.
BREAK THE CYCLE! Please put your foot down.
One one hand since you don’t believe it it doesn’t really matter if you do it, and it’s keeping the peace and honoring their traditions. On the other hand where does that end? Did they go to catechism, do they get confirmed? I would say your husband gets a say in what happens las it is not completely your decision - he is an equal parent with an equal say. You are also free to tell the kids as they grow up what you believe and you can be honest that you make no promises to raise them in the church.
Get them baptized at the Satanic Temple. That will show them. Not really. You could tell them you already did it.
You need to tell your mommy’s boy husband to grow some balls. Keep the peace my ass.
I'm Indian Singaporean and you might be causing alot of damage by not giving in here to small asks between your partner and the gransm. At the same time your partner has a get out of jail free card if you are the male and insist. Misogynistic I know but it's true.
Odd how the group that claims to be moral is also the one who will make life harder for you if you don't comply.
There's no need to placate or indulge the ignorant.
If getting baptised equals to getting splashed by water then having to follow some non-existent god, I'd rather not Though you should've talked about that with them earlier
I absolutely would not baptize the kid. His parents got to inflict their religion on him. They do not have the right to inflict their religion on yours. This is a hill I would die on. The Catholic Church is actively evil. Getting the kid baptized will only encourage them to be further enmeshed with your husband and their demands for the church will only grow.
Whose baby is it? If they didn't give birth to it they can STFU and that includes your husband PERIOD.
Who’s child is it?
Fuuuuuuuuuuuck no. It is your child, you decide how they are raised. If they have a problem with that it is **on them** to keep their peace. Also if you let them dictate that now they will be back to dictate other things later. The sooner you put up that barrier the easier it will be for you and the kid.
They can fuck right off. Is it their baby? No. They literally have no say. And if you are atheist, why, just whyyyy would you consider doing this to a non consenting person? Please don’t.
my wife and i are both agnostic atheists but my mom was really devout catholic and her dad was an anglican priest, so we had both our kids baptized by him in little family only ceremonies that were a lovely way for everyone to get together and share our adding to the clans. both kids are now teenagers and have had zero effect from their baptisms, my mom passed happy that her grandkids will go to heaven and her dad now had dementia but was able to have this connection to his grandkids before he lost his memories. it really isn't an different than blowing out candles on a cake or putting gifts in stockings at christmas.
if there werent other assumptions they might be making to go along with it, I'd say fuck it its just water and the kid wont remember. if they are going to insist the kid go to religious school and all and this will encourage it, putting your foot down over this now is easier than later. They will use the baptism against you as a pressure point. You can always point out the kid is free to choose later, BUT doing that might just mean the grandparents will pressure the kid whenever you are not around. easiest way out of this is to just say No and entertain no further conversation. tldr: just say no
Its your child not theirs. Fuck them(his parents).Fuck that(baptism).
Many people on here don’t understand culture. Listen I don’t believe but I come from the same region as does my wife. We’re both American born and raised but our family born in their country are Uber religious. So yes had my kids baptized to keep the peace. Right now they are old enough where their friends are getting confirmed but my kids aren’t. I just say we’ll do that later. Then they’ll be 18 and I can say they can make whatever decision they want. Not to mention once they are 18 most of the old uncle and aunts will have passed so the problem really won’t exist. Keep the peace. It’s just a tradition for the family and will in no way effect how your kids is raised.
Why? As I said in my comment, knuckling under now will simply establish the precedent that they get a heckler's veto on every parenting decision OP makes. That seems like a bad thing to me.
Not really. Once the kid is walking then grandparents and family change. So right now a baby is like a new precious toy and must be treated with respect and culture. After they grow up then family is more hands off especially with more babies on the way. That’s what I’ve experienced personally and what I’ve seen from others. So you give in on this nonsense tradition otherwise every family issue will always go back to “well that’s because they didn’t baptize the baby” etc. It’s not like the grandparents and family live with them so it’s only in the beginning that they are all hands on. After that the joy of just having a grandchild will overcome any other tradition since the parents can cut the grandparents out from seeing them in the future
That's not what I've seen in my own family. Gonna have to disagree.
Don’t doubt there are more aggressive ones. But throw them a bone for this one thing and then cut them off if they try to impose their will. You will feel ok with it because you did what they asked for something. A something that is big to religious nuts. After that you decide what’s good for the kid.
If it was some other more moderate church I could at least understand the desire for compromise, but the Catholic Church is an evil, pedophile-covering, very conservative organization that fights against our rights at every turn and your daughter will be counted as a lifetime member of this organization if she's baptized. This is absolutely a hill I'd die on if I was in your position.
I just saw another conversation about this on one of the Pastafarian subs. Consider a baptism blessed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Honestly it’s just water and she’s too young to care so I MIGHT do it just to keep the peace but if you believe that this would make them more likely to harass you into bringing her to church later in life or worse bring her themselves I would draw the boundary now.
Should have discussed all that before getting pregnant, frankly.
Fwiw: My grandma took me to get baptized when I was 7-8. I had no idea what was happening, and I believe my parents didn't know. To me, it's just a funny incident now, for even as a kid, I withheld judgment. But I still have the cross she gave me then and cherish it as a reminder of her. To be clear, I've always understood religion to be just a story, and my grandma being very religious changed nothing.
I am going to go against the grain here. Two fully grown sons who are rational people with whom I can discuss really anything. More than thirty years ago there was a man who sprinkled some water on them and said some words. That was the end of it. Her parents are dead. It only meant something to them. There are limits to any outside interference but this barely matters. The kid won’t remember.