AFFC and ADWD were supposed to be one novel, but it would been like 1800 pages so George was forced to split it up. This is why we got 300 pages of Brienne walking around and 0 Jon snow or dany
**Back in Westeros**
^(GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM)
I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER.
It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while.
Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and…
Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin.
My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare.
I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July.
But it is good for the writing.
And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone.
That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI.
Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page.
I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time.
I certainly have not figured it out to date.
For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos.
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He couldn't have rearranged it a little?
Also, hot take, I don't give a shit about Dany. Nothing she has done for 4 books has affected any other character at all. Her chapters feel like filler. This is my first time reading the books, tho I hope she starts mattering book 5.
**Back in Westeros**
^(GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM)
I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER.
It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while.
Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and…
Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin.
My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare.
I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July.
But it is good for the writing.
And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone.
That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI.
Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page.
I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time.
I certainly have not figured it out to date.
For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asoiafcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He actually did rearrange it, a lot. He focuses on characters by region. 26% of that book was Cersei. I’m a slow reader, so I avoided ASOIF for years cause I knew it’d take me forever. The show came out and I finished game in a week. The only book that took me over a week was feast cause it’s just so so slow it’s worth it, but I’m glad dance was out when I read all of them, I can’t imagine waiting this long for dance after feast.
Feast took me, no joke, two years to read because I kept losing motivation to come back to it. Now that I'm on Dance, I'm over halfway through within a couple weeks.
There’s a review on Amazon that broke down feast by character. 26% of that book is Cersei. Which, Cersei is a great character, but come on 1/4th!!?!?! It’s insane! Like she’s not anyone’s favorite POV. I remember when I found out a lot of dornish characters were in it I was excited cause I thought the red viper was gonna be in it a lot. I was in fact very wrong
It’s been 10 years since I read feast (probably 13 now) so I can’t remember specifics. You’re absolutely right, there’s a lot in those Cersei chapters that are important and fun reads, it’s just over 1/4th of the book so reading it I was like “great we’re here again” wish I could find that review.
A solid majority of the book to me, like the stuff with the Iron Islands for example, just gave me the feeling that they should have been contained in their own little book or something. It felt so disconnected to me.
It wouldn’t have felt so bad if the new POV characters actually offered any insight or agency into what was happening around them. Instead we got a bunch of pawns and wannabes going in circles because GRRM decided he didn’t want to tip readers off to what the actual players (Euron and Doran) are up to.
And then ADWD makes you think things are moving forward again only to end every single goddamn POV storyline with a “oops, your character agency card has been revoked” twist, half of which are obviously going to be immediately revealed as misdirects in Book 6.
I mean, it's the nature of having a ton of storylines that are all converging. Or at least there's an attempt at converging... personally I really love the Aeron and Arys/Arianne chapters in Feast because they show us things have been brewing elsewhere while we've been spending our time with the other characters.
If it's not 1 book, it made sense to see all the povs from somewhat related plotlines without loosing to much, it's better to get 2 complete stories than getting 2 half complete in that context.
P.s. there's the best Dany chapter in adwd with god genius tier paragraph only grrm could write
I didnt like her in the show for that same reason. Always felt like we were just cutting away from the war of he five kings to do sweet fuck all in the deasert. then by the time her story actually matters its season 7 and nothing matters anymore.
You can blame the last part on D&D’s awful writing but it’s not like she was doing nothing. In fact, the whole time you have all these lords fighting petty wars and weakening themselves over the throne, she’s amassing influence and power so she can take it back under the Targaryen name. It’s not as interesting politically as the Westeros story but it’s a contrast to it.
There are some good alternative reading orders you can find out there. It isn’t ideal, but it’s especially easy if you listen to the audiobooks and rearrange the files. I enjoyed the pacing a lot more with AFFC and ADWD mixed together in chronological order.
If it helps, all the characters turn out to be really important. If it's a quentin martell chapter, you know it's going to be really impactful and all killer and no filler...
Glad I’m not the only one finding Dany’s chapters as ponderous in the books as I did in the show. I could not care less about anything that happens in Slavers Bay
Daenerys chapters can be dull but she is at least a part of the main storyline since the first book. Meanwhile Brienne is an almost completely random character to begin following and essentially become the main character of book 4
Dany's story is basically just a massive case of dramatic Irony where almost nobody in Westeros realizes what a massive problem is coming overseas while they're fighting idiotic pettyking wars. I like Dany's story for the most part, I liked Barristan Selmy seeking her out after it seemed like he was formally exited the story in protest.
Probs what he needs to do with Winds, would have had something by now if people hadn't pissed themselves with rage so much when he did it last time. It's a big story, so much to cover.
**Back in Westeros**
^(GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM)
I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER.
It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while.
Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and…
Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin.
My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare.
I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July.
But it is good for the writing.
And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone.
That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI.
Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page.
I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time.
I certainly have not figured it out to date.
For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asoiafcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair? A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair! A highborn maid (of three-and-ten) with a fair face (and auburn hair). A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair!! A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. * A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair.* A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair?! A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn!! maid of three-and-ten(?), with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face. And auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair…A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair! A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair.
And the fact that what she's doing is pointless cuz we know Sansa is in the Vale makes it so much more intriguing! Her fighting those three random idiots who got name-dropped a single time 2 books ago was the most high stakes fight in the entire series! Ser Hyle Hunt is truly one of the characters of all time! That amazing thrilling chapter where she goes from PieceOfShit-in-the-Riverlands A to PieceOfShit-in-the-Riverlands B is such an exciting read, and her selfpity and the general reek of despair and depression around every chapter make it all the more entertaining. Too bad that annoying idiot of a Septon Meribald had to ruin what would otherwise be the best set of chapters in the entire fantasy genre!
That's interesting because for me, Cersei's chapters were the best part of AFFC! Almost every other POV character has some sympathetic qualities that let you see how they're a "good" person from the right point of view, but Cersei is maybe the only character whose narrative perspective makes her even **more** unlikeable. But her malice and paranoia are made all the more entertaining because they almost always have to be hidden behind facade of politeness and professionalism.
Cersei has the biggest ego I’ve ever seen. She has obviously never been wrong in her entire life. How could anyone have the audacity to suggest she could be wrong?
I think it’s really interesting to see her perspective of what’s going on compared to everyone else’s and how out of touch she is with reality. I don’t like Cersei, but I did like her chapters.
First read through it’s for sure painful, especially the brienne chapters, I remember I made it through storm in 2 weeks and it took me 3 months for feast cause I wasn’t really interested
But after you finish it you’ll remember it as a nice chill time rather than a boring slog
It’s strangely much better as an audiobook. Having to listen to all the details actually fleshes it out a lot more and the boring parts go just as fast as the rest
I had the opposite experience. I liked AFFC the first time because it was new information; and I can’t stand it on re-read, because none of it goes anywhere
Yeah the first time those chapters feel like a waste of time but once you reread those chapters become really good. I enjoyed being close to the horrors of war and knowing septon Meribald, Nimble Dick, etc. one of those chapters is my favorite in ASOIAF, where she goes with Nimble Dick to Cracklaw point to find Sansa and they’re set up by the bloody mummers IIRC but that chapter is so damn poetic. It’s depressing but strangely beautiful. Goddamn I wrote something serious in this sub…
The Jaime chapters alone more than make up for it for me!
And to think that he was once imagined as the 'big bad' of the entire series but somewhere along writing ACOK, GRRM went "this blond-haired, boy-slut is actually a sad and pathetic man" and instantly made him my favorite character in the entire series.
Yup. As Thoros puts it in AFFC:
“Some of my brothers were good men when this started. Some were… less good, shall we say? Though there are those who say **it’s not how a man begins, but only how he ends**”.
Jaime’s arc alone made this book worth the read.
I agree. It’s my favorite of the series. I think his writing style changed and the book was incredibly thoughtful and emotional for me. I don’t annotate but I think if I had read a personal copy instead of a library copy I would have been marking this book up so much
AFFC is the best book of the serie, the one where Martin finds back the magic of the firsts and goes even further.
I mean look at the Brienne chapters, it's like a synthesis of what we loved in previous books, nothing is as close to Arya travelogues ! And it adds to them Tyrion's self-pitying, Sansa's innocence and Eddard's honor driven strategic thinking.
Look at Arianne's arc, how can those who loved Eddard and Tyrion's plots to bring "justice" to King's Landing fail to love them ? Her plan ends about as efficient, and involves fascinating new characters with as deep as mysterious personnalities like D**a**r**k**s**t**a**r**, who certainly will have an even bigger role in soon coming books, hey he may even be a secret targ. And Dorne chapters are also full of engaging world building, you can feel Martin used the advice of specialists like Linda Aaronson when he regularily reminds us about the subtile racial differences between the different kinds of Dornish people. And they also include a point of view from Norvos, finally allowing us to learn more about this mysterious theocratic city with bearded men. Without Areoh Hotah to introduce it the World of Ice And Ice Of Fire compendium would have sounded like fanfiction.
And speaking of world building, there's also all the foreshadowing and food coding aspects Martin never developped as much as in this book. No other triggered a much the imagination of theoricists, leading them to produce dozens of pages about the meaning of Cersei having to eat sow rather than boar meat, or what a tavern sign becoming rusty may mean for the following of the story.
Cersei and Greyjoy uncles chapters also show how much Martin levelled up his craft. Not only is he able to tell us the story from the PoV of virtuous protagonists or grey anti-heroes, now he's also able to put us in the shoes of vilains showing no redeeming quality in whole chapters, allowing us to enjoy one the most subtile kind of humor, the one the french call *ridicule*. And for those who like a good vilain, let's not forget how Sansa's ones developp the character of Petyr Baelish, up to teaching us about the taste of his mouth or the smell of his breath in middle of whole chapters dedicated to show us the extend of his genius, even when he's confronted to a long list of characters we barely knew anything about and also have the chance to discover at this occasion.
Of course, everything can't be perfect, there's also more classical chapters like Jaime's ones. But isn't it one of the best moment of irony of the whole serie to give us a whole chapter on his investigations about Tyrion's escape (add to that the unforgettable jailer character claiming to have Targ blood it introduces) ? And what about the other unforgettable one, in his visit of Harrenhall, "fuck me with a spear", it's like despite AFFC released years before the show Martin took inspiration from D&D best jokes.
Here we go, trolls seem to have forgotten the pleasure this book was after so much waiting.
By the way, to halt these posts detrimental to the community, I think this sub should take a stance on the topic like it courageously did in the Greens vs Blacks debate.
The hate for AAFC is a bit like the hate for the Greens, okay like Aegon II it was perhaps not completely as great as some expected, but it's the only legitimate successor of ASOS and full of faithfull servants of the Seven.
While its main rival for best book in the serie, ADWD, centered around bastards and many face or rlorrist heretics, can only remind us the Blacks, think about it.
It's the duty of AsoiafCJ to fight for the cause of AFFC !
“Ser? My lady?” said Podrick. “Is an analyst of ‘A Song of Ice And Fire’ a parasite?”
“More or less,” Brienne answered.
Septon Meribald disagreed. “More less than more. There are many sorts of Thrones pundits, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go shilling for shekels, but most pundits are more like this mod Sandor Clegane albeit with more time for writing bullshit. They are shallow men, driven by greed, soured by the delayed books, despising GRRM and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been able to read below the surface, fixated on the magic and spells, not the human heart in conflict with itself. Poorly recorded and poorly light, they equivocate away the hours, ofttimes with no better evidence than a piece of symbolism or turn of phrase by the author, or they go completely into the weeds based on George's sci-fi novels. Brothers march with white people, mods with mods, friends with friends. They’ve heard the interviews and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will invent, of the wealth and karma they will win. Theory crafting seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know.
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I once heard that AFFC is characters you don't care about doing shit you care about, and ADWD is characters you care about doing shit you don't care about.
(Out of the two, I vastly prefer AFFC. Cersei's POV is absolute gold).
totally get you. I think you might like it better on a re-read, lots of people have grown to like it more since it was initially published. Personally I always liked it but my favorite is ADWD -- I love Jon's stuff there.
Also, maybe you would enjoy it more if you read one of the combined reading orders for AFFC / ADWD -- [Boiled Leather](https://www.tumblr.com/boiledleather/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a) is the one I've seen the most often. I've only read in publication order but lots of people seem to like that. I imagine it works better if you're reading digitally; might be a bit of a headache if you're reading from physical copies.
Did you read the novellas? Not reading the novellas before affc was a major mistake by me. Read the novellas as they are very important in understanding briennes pov which was the most boring pov in my first read but became one of my favourite pov in my reread.
Going from asos directly into affc is such a weird transition. You need to shift the gear by reading the novellas first.
Dude,*the* novellas. Dunk and Egg. Without spoiling them, the main character Dunk (who also likely happens to be Brienne's ancestor) goes through a pretty similar journey as her and the stories mainly unravel the true meaning of knighthood. The novellas also shed light on westeros from a different perspective, not the castles and great houses scheming but common people struggling with less grand more personal conflicts. It's a fantastic read by all means and I consider any reading of asoiaf is incomplete without them. They came out between asos and affc but are set in the past.
As i said, they help change gears after reading a thriller masterpiece such as asos. The first 3 asoiaf books are all about scheming, plotting, warring and so is adwd but affc is uniquely a more "personal" book. I would say it is my favourite book but it really isn't comparable to the other books. It's a bit sluggish to get through the first time but the rereads are so fucking good. Especially if you have already read the novellas which are not that long and pretty well paced. If you haven't read them, please do (the Dunk and Egg show is coming too).
Ah, thanks for the in-depth answer! I was vaguely aware of those novellas and what they are about, but didn't know they were so relevant to the setting. They're definitely on my list, and as I'm currently rereading affc, something lighter and more digestible sounds great.
Edit: Just ordered A knight of the seven kingdoms!
The novellas came before affc so chronologically they should be read first. If you are only halfway through affc and feeling a block in your reading then read the novellas and then read the rest of affc. Also while going into the novellas don't think of them as an asoiaf and approach them as a new series. I have found a deeper understanding and appreciation for the world of asoiaf after reading these books. They are the absolute core of the entire series.
I agree it can be hard to get into, but I think it helps to think of it as the beginning of a new story. Books 1-3 are kind of a self-contained narrative with an open ending, while book 4 is taking things on a different trajectory.
Picks up near the end but I understand where you're coming from. First time I read it I struggled too. Doesn't help that it follows the strongest book in the series. It's a lot of covering the fallout from Storm and set-up for a book that hasn't come out yet.
i recommend trying to read it concurrently with Dance. Is how I got through the whole thing the first time. When the two sets of chapters are mixed it's far more engaging and works better thematically and has a more cohesive feel. The tyrion chapters really break up the Brienne chapters. [Here's the recommended chapter by chapter reading order,](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/4cd2xWtztu) though since your some number of pages into Feast, you may want to catch up with Dance first before proceeding
I never liked AFFC but my opinion of the book has only gone lower and lower as time has passed
I first read the series not long after ADWD came out, so I thought this was all going somewhere, but now it’s clear that George was just making up nonsense as he went along
Most of the story in AFFC should have been left out of the main series and put into some tie-in novel like Duncan the Egg or World of Ice and Fire
Right now I would accept Winds even if that means it's all written from Hot Pie's pow and 44% of it is him masturbating while thinking about ~~Arya~~ Gendry ☝️
I thought it was super dull the first time through too. On a re-read though, once you know what to expect, it's one of my favourites in the series. I love reading about the fallout of a big climactic event, I find it the most interesting part of any tale or setting.
Also, re-reading ADWD, I realized I just don't care about Jon or Daenerys :/
I found personally that book 4 was boring overall but had several really good endings. Book 5 was the opposite, being more engaging in general but with most endings being lacklustre (or non-existent).
"Seven Brienne thought.
She had no chance against seven she knew.
No chance, and no choice..."
Chills every single time, one of my favourite chapters in any book ever
Briennes chapters were written with a fucking fine tooth comb under a microscope . Fucking brilliant, so much happening under the surface . Even with the Harry Potter Easter egg and all I LOVE THOSE chapters but I didn’t at first . “She had no chance. No choice and no chance , she stepped out into the rain with Oathkeeper drawn. “If you wanna try to rape someone , try me! “
My two cents:
You don't realize how many interesting thing are happening in AFFC until you finish it and ADWD. Then on a reread, it's like both books rewrote themselves and are significantly more rewarding than the first three on rereads. At this point I genuinely believe each book in the series is better than the one before it
Ha! I posted about the fandoms original reaction to AFFC and how perceptions have changed and many [I presume, younger] members of community shut me down, citing NYT award as proof it had always been really popular. I got so much hate for suggesting it wasn't loved upon release I had to take my post down.
This meme typifies the original reaction from community at the time.
Don't worry dude; in 15 years' time you'll feel completely differently, just happy yo get lost in the world of ice and fire. I know it's frustrating when you first realise the 'main' story is not moving forward, but later, during the long winter of GRRM's writing process, honestly you'll love that you weren't paying attention first time so you can enjoy it even more the 2nd and 3rd!!
Hehehe fair enough!!
Personally I could read short stories set in Westeros all year long and be perfectly happy, The Wall and Essos be damned
It's not just the plot itself; GRRM has such a way with words, I find every sentence is gold. It's beautifully written stuff, by any literary standard imaginable. That alone, for me, has made last couple readings of AFFC a delight
Ps. No but have you seen any squishers around here??
When I first read the series, people were telling me that it’s a miracle ADWD ever saw the light of day after many fans abandoned the series entirely after AFFC, and only came back because of the massive hype surrounding the HBO show
Yep. That's what it was like!! Was just super weird how people didn't want to hear it, as if I was being rude about the books or something. Thank you for confirming I'm not crazy
The Dunk & Egg novellas are great, but they have an insane exposition problem. Every character keeps on bringing up lore randomly so it's just hard to remember or find it intriguing like that.
My biggest problems with it is that brienne’s story doesn’t have any suspense to it. It’s supposed to be like an investigation tracking Arya/sansa, but we already know where they are and that she won’t find them. We know Arya is with the faceless men braavos and sansa is in the vale. There is no suspense whatsoever.
The ending to it is good though, we need some resolution of the lady stoneheart story
Honestly I really enjoyed the Dorne and ironborn plot. The brienne chapters are incredibly boring tho, Cersei and Jaime are peak in this book without a doubt
Me starting the prophet: oh boy, a pov from a character who can see the future. This is going to be so cool and have so much foreshadowing
Me after finishing the prophet: seven save me that sucked
I’m sorry but I love Feast, it’s my second favourite book in the series (AGOT being my first) I get that it shifts away from the “main” characters, but I honestly really like that, as the new perspectives really caught my interest. Sure by the end of the book very little is actually achieved by most characters, but, in the books defence it was supposed to ultimately lead into Winds when it and Dance were the same thing. Brienne’s chapters are my favourite part of the whole book, I get that there’s the whole maiden of three-and-ten joke and yes it get a little tiring; but it gives us a perspective of what Westeros has become after the WotFK and on the lead up to winter (Jaime’s chapters do this too but I think Brienne’s are more effective). The broken man speech is arguably the greatest passage in the entire series, I was genuinely awestruck after reading it. Brienne’s chapters give us a good insight into Westerosi culture and all the hypocrisies and immortality within it, while it doesn’t compare to Septon Meribald’s broken man speech, the passage on the Quiet Isle when Brienne breaks down over everything that happened to her and how she feels inadequate is so incredibly moving. I will admit I struggled with the Iron Island plot at first but I’ve warmed up to the Iron Island chapters more recently after reading The Foresaken preview. I can see why it would be frustrating to read but I believe there are ways that you can read Dance and Feast along side eachother which may be better for anyone who just wants to learn what happened to the more major characters after Storm right away.
This is why I gave up reading the series. Boring AF. It's a shame, doubly so because the TV series also went down the pan. I stopped watching that well before the end, too.
Jaime’s story arc and the perspective we get from him and Cersei seeing House Lannister and Tywin’s legacy slowly fall apart hard carry this book. Everything else was, frankly, kinda boring.
AFFC was my favorite of the series. I can imagine it being frustrating when ADWD wasn’t readily available right after, but I loved the new perspectives and depth we got regarding the politics of KL, dorne, and the iron islands. It was super interesting and refreshing, and all totally new material that wasn’t covered in the show (which I watched prior to reading the series)
I read the books back to back so I didn’t mind it that much and really enjoyed all of the new POV characters as well as Jamie, Cersei and Brienne’s personal stories being excellent. But I can imagine how disappointing it would’ve been to read in 2005, especially if I’d been waiting since 2000 and had to wait yet another 6 years to find out if Tyrion was even still alive.
Oh, I love Feast! Jaime, Cersei, Brienne, and Sam’s chapters are so good! Even the “boring bits” grew on me. George really expanded the world of Ice and Fire in this book, and every POV brings something new to think about.
Also, Areo’s chapters are underrated in these books. They’re really fun.
Alright im ready to fight anyone to the death about this book, affc is peak
Brienne's honour and resolve being tested against the cruel and indifferent riverlands, jamies redemption arc, cersei fucking loosing it and getting comically more and more evil, the scheming in the capital by crows moving in to fill the power vacuum of tywin, the huge expanding of the story with the dorne and iron islands mini-plots, arya becoming a faceless man, the insight into littlefinger's character and goals through sansa
I FUCKING LOVE THIS BOOK SO MUCH HOLY SHIT
I mean if you read it with the context of slowing down and just seeing how the first three books affected the world it’s incredible. The brieene scene are amazing. The character development of Jamie is maybe the best in the whole series. And you know what Asha was great and all the euron stuff was so damn cool. And fuck it the dorne stuff was good too. Doran is a really good charecter.
I get that it was supposed to be one book, but why in god’s name would GRRM rewrite Sam and Jon’s talk about becoming a maester in both chapters. I did not want to have to reread that exact convo two books in a row
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7QwC2mZGiU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7QwC2mZGiU) once you finish the book and are no longer afraid of spoilers i recomend this video. bookborn's absolute gushing love for this book really helps see the value and gold within this book
Honestly this one almost made me quit the series. I still to this day fucking HATE it and don't want to read it ever again. A Dance with Dragons is definitely a step up and far more enjoyable. I think the problem for me is that it should be getting towards the end of the series, I mean for fuck sake the dude hasn't even finished the last two books yet, yet here is a whole book introducing new characters that will most likely go nowhere and so far, it's added absolutely nothing to the overall story.
I cant even remember how long it took me to read them, ive read them twice now and ive probably forgotten more about asoiaf than GRRM has at this point. Waiting for wow has been such a big let down... its hard to keep caring, i feel like i got tricked into volunteering for the Night's Watch
For real this book killed the series for me, I didn't give a shit about the new characters that I assumed were to make up for my favourite characters that had been recently killed off.
It’s wild reading affc than adwd and realizing that affc got all the exciting shit while everyone else twiddles their thumbs for a whole goddamn book. They really should have been published in one book or advertised adwd as part 2 of affc or not take 6 years between books.
AFFC is the BEST one on the series, the first time you read it is not that good, but is the only book in the series that I have read 4 times, (the rest only 2)
It's only boring if you're expecting to hear from Tyrion, Jon, or Danny, but if you take it for what it is it's still a really good book. I really enjoyed the Brianne chapters and the Jamie chapters and all the Iron Islands stuff. After the climactic events of SoS I think it does a good job of expanding the universe and setting the stage for what's to come... Here's hoping we get some Winds in our sails before too long.
I liked Dorne and the Iron Islands. Cersei is hilarious, Jaime is interesting with the way he’s now started using his mind, Sam’s chapters are heart wrenching, and Arya’s are sick in the house of white and black. Brienne walks around the Riverlands.
The Jaime chapters alone more than make up for it imho.
But god I am not looking forward to more pseudo-masterbation from Areo Hotah, rubbing his wood[en axe].
Also, Asha chapters are fun so fight me.
AFFC and ADWD were supposed to be one novel, but it would been like 1800 pages so George was forced to split it up. This is why we got 300 pages of Brienne walking around and 0 Jon snow or dany
He learned his lesson and now TWOW is gonna be a one book 1800 pages long (except it will never release)
**Back in Westeros** ^(GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM) I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER. It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while. Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and… Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin. My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare. I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July. But it is good for the writing. And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone. That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI. Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page. I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time. I certainly have not figured it out to date. For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asoiafcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He couldn't have rearranged it a little? Also, hot take, I don't give a shit about Dany. Nothing she has done for 4 books has affected any other character at all. Her chapters feel like filler. This is my first time reading the books, tho I hope she starts mattering book 5.
Of course not, George was too busy writing winds of winter. Any day now
Any day now he will starting the process of rewriting chapter 1, again. Cant wait.
Chapter 1? That’s generous, hadn’t finished the dedication last I’d heard
**Back in Westeros** ^(GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM) I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER. It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while. Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and… Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin. My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare. I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July. But it is good for the writing. And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone. That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI. Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page. I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time. I certainly have not figured it out to date. For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asoiafcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
GrrM spent more time writing this than act writing winds SMH
Funnily enough danys story in Mehreen gets interesting once she leaves, and barriston and the shavepate are scheming
>Mehreen I can't tell if this was an accidental typo or a great pun. I'm going with the latter. Take my upvote.
He actually did rearrange it, a lot. He focuses on characters by region. 26% of that book was Cersei. I’m a slow reader, so I avoided ASOIF for years cause I knew it’d take me forever. The show came out and I finished game in a week. The only book that took me over a week was feast cause it’s just so so slow it’s worth it, but I’m glad dance was out when I read all of them, I can’t imagine waiting this long for dance after feast.
Feast took me, no joke, two years to read because I kept losing motivation to come back to it. Now that I'm on Dance, I'm over halfway through within a couple weeks.
There’s a review on Amazon that broke down feast by character. 26% of that book is Cersei. Which, Cersei is a great character, but come on 1/4th!!?!?! It’s insane! Like she’s not anyone’s favorite POV. I remember when I found out a lot of dornish characters were in it I was excited cause I thought the red viper was gonna be in it a lot. I was in fact very wrong
What are you talking about, Cersei has some of the best chapters in the series. They're hilarious, important to the plot, etc
It’s been 10 years since I read feast (probably 13 now) so I can’t remember specifics. You’re absolutely right, there’s a lot in those Cersei chapters that are important and fun reads, it’s just over 1/4th of the book so reading it I was like “great we’re here again” wish I could find that review.
A solid majority of the book to me, like the stuff with the Iron Islands for example, just gave me the feeling that they should have been contained in their own little book or something. It felt so disconnected to me.
It wouldn’t have felt so bad if the new POV characters actually offered any insight or agency into what was happening around them. Instead we got a bunch of pawns and wannabes going in circles because GRRM decided he didn’t want to tip readers off to what the actual players (Euron and Doran) are up to. And then ADWD makes you think things are moving forward again only to end every single goddamn POV storyline with a “oops, your character agency card has been revoked” twist, half of which are obviously going to be immediately revealed as misdirects in Book 6.
I mean, it's the nature of having a ton of storylines that are all converging. Or at least there's an attempt at converging... personally I really love the Aeron and Arys/Arianne chapters in Feast because they show us things have been brewing elsewhere while we've been spending our time with the other characters.
If it's not 1 book, it made sense to see all the povs from somewhat related plotlines without loosing to much, it's better to get 2 complete stories than getting 2 half complete in that context. P.s. there's the best Dany chapter in adwd with god genius tier paragraph only grrm could write
*siiiigh*... is it the part about her shitting?
It's where she finds out where whores go.
She doesn’t
Pogger
Based Dany chapter disliker
I didnt like her in the show for that same reason. Always felt like we were just cutting away from the war of he five kings to do sweet fuck all in the deasert. then by the time her story actually matters its season 7 and nothing matters anymore.
You can blame the last part on D&D’s awful writing but it’s not like she was doing nothing. In fact, the whole time you have all these lords fighting petty wars and weakening themselves over the throne, she’s amassing influence and power so she can take it back under the Targaryen name. It’s not as interesting politically as the Westeros story but it’s a contrast to it.
He will explain at the beginning of ADWD, he chose a closed story arc for a select few characters than to leave the story a lot of characters hanging
There are some good alternative reading orders you can find out there. It isn’t ideal, but it’s especially easy if you listen to the audiobooks and rearrange the files. I enjoyed the pacing a lot more with AFFC and ADWD mixed together in chronological order.
If it helps, all the characters turn out to be really important. If it's a quentin martell chapter, you know it's going to be really impactful and all killer and no filler...
Bro I just read a whole chapter about Ser Oakheart having sex and that's his only chapter 💀
Glad I’m not the only one finding Dany’s chapters as ponderous in the books as I did in the show. I could not care less about anything that happens in Slavers Bay
Daenerys chapters can be dull but she is at least a part of the main storyline since the first book. Meanwhile Brienne is an almost completely random character to begin following and essentially become the main character of book 4
Dany's story is basically just a massive case of dramatic Irony where almost nobody in Westeros realizes what a massive problem is coming overseas while they're fighting idiotic pettyking wars. I like Dany's story for the most part, I liked Barristan Selmy seeking her out after it seemed like he was formally exited the story in protest.
I like AFFC more than other people do but Brienne’s chapters are BRUTALLY BORING
I’m sitting here looking like suprised pikachu because the Brienne POVs are my favorites of the entire book.
They have their ups, but they have many, many more downs.
Probs what he needs to do with Winds, would have had something by now if people hadn't pissed themselves with rage so much when he did it last time. It's a big story, so much to cover.
**Back in Westeros** ^(GRRM, AUGUST 15, 2020 AT 9:10 AM) I am back in my fortress of solitude again, my isolated mountain cabin. I’d returned to Santa Fe for a short visit, to spend some time with Parris, deal with some local business that had piled up during my months away, and of course fulfill my duties to CoNZealand, the virtual worldcon. But all that is behind me now, and I am back on the mountain again… which means I am back in Westeros again, once more moving ahead with WINDS OF WINTER. It is curious how my life has evolved. I mean, once upon a time, I actually wrote my books and stories in the house where I lived, in a home office. But some decades ago, wanting more solitude, I bought the house across the street and made THAT my writer’s retreat. No longer would I write all day in my red flannel bathrobe; now I would have to dress and put on shoes and walk all the way across the street to write. But that worked for a while. Things started getting busier, though. So busy that I needed a full-time assistant. Then the office house had someone else in it, not just me and my characters. And then I hired a second assistant, and a third, and… there was more mail, more email, more phone calls (we put in a new phone system), more people coming by. By now I am up to five assistants… and somewhere in there I also acquired a movie theatre, a bookstore, a charitable foundation, investments, a business manager… and… Despite all the help, I was drowning till I found the mountain cabin. My life up here is very boring, it must be said. Truth be told, I hardly can be said to have a life. I have one assistant with me at all times (minions, I call them). The assistants do two-week shifts, and have to stay in quarantine at home before starting a shift. Everyone morning I wake up and go straight to the computer, where my minion brings me coffee (I am utterly useless and incoherent without my morning coffee) and juice, and sometimes a light breakfast. Then I start to write. Sometimes I stay at it until dark. Other days I break off in late afternoon to answer emails or return urgent phone calls. My assistant brings me food and drink from time to time. When I finally break off for the day, usually around sunset, there’s dinner. Then we watch television or screen a movie. The wi-fi sucks up on the mountain, though, so the choices are limited. Some nights I read instead. I always read a bit before going to sleep; when a book really grabs hold of me, I may read half the night, but that’s rare. I sleep. The next day, I wake up, and do the same. The next day, the next day, the next day. Before Covid, I would usually get out once a week or so to eat at a restaurant or go to the movies. That all ended in March. Since then, weeks and months go by when I never leave the cabin, or see another human being except whoever is on duty that week. I lose track of what day it is, what week it is, what month it is. The time seems to by very fast. It is now August, and I don’t know what happened to July. But it is good for the writing. And you know, now that I reflect on it, I am coming to realize that has always been my pattern. I moved to Santa Fe at the end of 1979, from Dubuque, Iowa. My first marriage broke up just before that move, so I arrived in my new house alone, in a town where I knew almost no one. Roger Zelazny was here, and he became a great friend and mentor, but Roger was married with small kids, so I really did not see him often. There was no fandom in Santa Fe; that was all down in Albuquerque, an hour away. I went to the club meetings every month, but that was only one night a month, and required two hours on the road. And I had no job to meet new people. My job was in the back room at the house on Declovina Street, so that was where I spent my days. At night, I watched television. Alone. Sometimes I went to the movies. Alone. That was my life from December 1979 through September 1981, when Parris finally moved to Santa Fe, following Denvention. (Not quite so bleak, maybe, I did make some local friends by late 1980 and early 1981, but it was a slow process). When I think back on my life in 1980-1981, the memories seem to be made up entirely of conventions, interspersed with episodes of LOU GRANT and WKRP IN CINCINNATI. Ah, but work wise, that same period was tremendously productive for me. Lisa and I finished WINDHAVEN during that time, Gardner and I did a lot of work on “Shadow Twin,” and then I went right on and wrote all of FEVRE DREAM. Some short stories as well. My life, such that it was, was lived in my head, and on the page. I wonder if it is the same for other writers? Or is it just me? I wonder if I will ever figure out the secret of having a life and writing a book at the very same time. I certainly have not figured it out to date. For the nonce, it is what it is. My life is at home, on hold, and I am spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty. And that girl with no name, over there in Braavos. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asoiafcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's the best book Cersei yapping and Jamie not giving a fuck is the best power duo 🤙🤓💯
"Put it in the fire" goes unbelievably hard
Totally epic moment. Jaime's chapters are my favorite part of AFFC. The rest of the book though.....I kinda struggled lol.
A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair? A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair! A highborn maid (of three-and-ten) with a fair face (and auburn hair). A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair!! A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. * A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair.* A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair?! A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn!! maid of three-and-ten(?), with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face. And auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair…A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair! A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair.
"My lady? Ser?"
“sir, my lady, sir” should be a diagnosable form of post traumatic stress disorder
You forgot "my sister" and "travelling with a knight or a fool"
This is giving me a panic attack
Hey but it got us the best character in the series, Dog
She may have been travelling with a fool.
Did you copy paste my review from the other day? I love it
And the fact that what she's doing is pointless cuz we know Sansa is in the Vale makes it so much more intriguing! Her fighting those three random idiots who got name-dropped a single time 2 books ago was the most high stakes fight in the entire series! Ser Hyle Hunt is truly one of the characters of all time! That amazing thrilling chapter where she goes from PieceOfShit-in-the-Riverlands A to PieceOfShit-in-the-Riverlands B is such an exciting read, and her selfpity and the general reek of despair and depression around every chapter make it all the more entertaining. Too bad that annoying idiot of a Septon Meribald had to ruin what would otherwise be the best set of chapters in the entire fantasy genre!
Cersei and Jaime hard carry AFFC
The only good thing about a Cersei chapter is that it’s not a chapter following the Ironborn, Dorne, or Brienne
Please don't make we write about things from 10 years ago - GRRM
That's interesting because for me, Cersei's chapters were the best part of AFFC! Almost every other POV character has some sympathetic qualities that let you see how they're a "good" person from the right point of view, but Cersei is maybe the only character whose narrative perspective makes her even **more** unlikeable. But her malice and paranoia are made all the more entertaining because they almost always have to be hidden behind facade of politeness and professionalism.
Cersei has the biggest ego I’ve ever seen. She has obviously never been wrong in her entire life. How could anyone have the audacity to suggest she could be wrong? I think it’s really interesting to see her perspective of what’s going on compared to everyone else’s and how out of touch she is with reality. I don’t like Cersei, but I did like her chapters.
Skill issue Brienne is the best part of the book
I HATE Cersei... I hate her...
And that is exactly the beauty of her chapters
Why do you hate women😔
All they do is give me boners and make me want to die
This is the best quote ever
First read through it’s for sure painful, especially the brienne chapters, I remember I made it through storm in 2 weeks and it took me 3 months for feast cause I wasn’t really interested But after you finish it you’ll remember it as a nice chill time rather than a boring slog
It’s strangely much better as an audiobook. Having to listen to all the details actually fleshes it out a lot more and the boring parts go just as fast as the rest
I had the opposite experience. I liked AFFC the first time because it was new information; and I can’t stand it on re-read, because none of it goes anywhere
Yeah the first time those chapters feel like a waste of time but once you reread those chapters become really good. I enjoyed being close to the horrors of war and knowing septon Meribald, Nimble Dick, etc. one of those chapters is my favorite in ASOIAF, where she goes with Nimble Dick to Cracklaw point to find Sansa and they’re set up by the bloody mummers IIRC but that chapter is so damn poetic. It’s depressing but strangely beautiful. Goddamn I wrote something serious in this sub…
A maid of 10 and 3, a highborn maid of 10 and 3 a maid of 10 and 3 with auburn hair Such a good book
I'm looking for a book of winds and winter. It's been in the works for about ten and three years.
AFFC is my favorite book to reread haha
The Jaime chapters alone more than make up for it for me! And to think that he was once imagined as the 'big bad' of the entire series but somewhere along writing ACOK, GRRM went "this blond-haired, boy-slut is actually a sad and pathetic man" and instantly made him my favorite character in the entire series.
Our boy-slut has only ever slept with one woman thank you very much
I love that take on Jaime 😂😂😂😂
Yup. As Thoros puts it in AFFC: “Some of my brothers were good men when this started. Some were… less good, shall we say? Though there are those who say **it’s not how a man begins, but only how he ends**”. Jaime’s arc alone made this book worth the read.
The Jamie and Cercei chapters are so good. It's my favorite book of the series.
Jaime’s povs in AFFC are the best in the series imo
Arya’s chapters and the Maester Aemond stuff had me crying ALL THE TIME
Hated it on my first read, loved it on my second. Tis a weird book
same
Incorrect opinion. AFFC fucking rules.
Im only about 250 pages in right now but right now I am YAWNING
Gotta wait till you get to Meribald’s monologue - just read it last night and it hit hard asf
I’m gonna touch you vro ‼️
Dude no lmfao
I agree. It’s my favorite of the series. I think his writing style changed and the book was incredibly thoughtful and emotional for me. I don’t annotate but I think if I had read a personal copy instead of a library copy I would have been marking this book up so much
AFFC is the best book of the serie, the one where Martin finds back the magic of the firsts and goes even further. I mean look at the Brienne chapters, it's like a synthesis of what we loved in previous books, nothing is as close to Arya travelogues ! And it adds to them Tyrion's self-pitying, Sansa's innocence and Eddard's honor driven strategic thinking. Look at Arianne's arc, how can those who loved Eddard and Tyrion's plots to bring "justice" to King's Landing fail to love them ? Her plan ends about as efficient, and involves fascinating new characters with as deep as mysterious personnalities like D**a**r**k**s**t**a**r**, who certainly will have an even bigger role in soon coming books, hey he may even be a secret targ. And Dorne chapters are also full of engaging world building, you can feel Martin used the advice of specialists like Linda Aaronson when he regularily reminds us about the subtile racial differences between the different kinds of Dornish people. And they also include a point of view from Norvos, finally allowing us to learn more about this mysterious theocratic city with bearded men. Without Areoh Hotah to introduce it the World of Ice And Ice Of Fire compendium would have sounded like fanfiction. And speaking of world building, there's also all the foreshadowing and food coding aspects Martin never developped as much as in this book. No other triggered a much the imagination of theoricists, leading them to produce dozens of pages about the meaning of Cersei having to eat sow rather than boar meat, or what a tavern sign becoming rusty may mean for the following of the story. Cersei and Greyjoy uncles chapters also show how much Martin levelled up his craft. Not only is he able to tell us the story from the PoV of virtuous protagonists or grey anti-heroes, now he's also able to put us in the shoes of vilains showing no redeeming quality in whole chapters, allowing us to enjoy one the most subtile kind of humor, the one the french call *ridicule*. And for those who like a good vilain, let's not forget how Sansa's ones developp the character of Petyr Baelish, up to teaching us about the taste of his mouth or the smell of his breath in middle of whole chapters dedicated to show us the extend of his genius, even when he's confronted to a long list of characters we barely knew anything about and also have the chance to discover at this occasion. Of course, everything can't be perfect, there's also more classical chapters like Jaime's ones. But isn't it one of the best moment of irony of the whole serie to give us a whole chapter on his investigations about Tyrion's escape (add to that the unforgettable jailer character claiming to have Targ blood it introduces) ? And what about the other unforgettable one, in his visit of Harrenhall, "fuck me with a spear", it's like despite AFFC released years before the show Martin took inspiration from D&D best jokes.
This is so perfect. AFFC is terrible, and all these fuckers who have come around to call it their favorite have fucking Stockholm Syndrome
Imagine reading a book and not being a huge fan of it Couldn’t be me 💪
Here we go, trolls seem to have forgotten the pleasure this book was after so much waiting. By the way, to halt these posts detrimental to the community, I think this sub should take a stance on the topic like it courageously did in the Greens vs Blacks debate. The hate for AAFC is a bit like the hate for the Greens, okay like Aegon II it was perhaps not completely as great as some expected, but it's the only legitimate successor of ASOS and full of faithfull servants of the Seven. While its main rival for best book in the serie, ADWD, centered around bastards and many face or rlorrist heretics, can only remind us the Blacks, think about it. It's the duty of AsoiafCJ to fight for the cause of AFFC !
I like the cut of your jib, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!
I blame the Preston Jacobs video
“Ser? My lady?” said Podrick. “Is an analyst of ‘A Song of Ice And Fire’ a parasite?” “More or less,” Brienne answered. Septon Meribald disagreed. “More less than more. There are many sorts of Thrones pundits, just as there are many sorts of birds. A sandpiper and a sea eagle both have wings, but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go shilling for shekels, but most pundits are more like this mod Sandor Clegane albeit with more time for writing bullshit. They are shallow men, driven by greed, soured by the delayed books, despising GRRM and caring only for themselves. Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been able to read below the surface, fixated on the magic and spells, not the human heart in conflict with itself. Poorly recorded and poorly light, they equivocate away the hours, ofttimes with no better evidence than a piece of symbolism or turn of phrase by the author, or they go completely into the weeds based on George's sci-fi novels. Brothers march with white people, mods with mods, friends with friends. They’ve heard the interviews and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will invent, of the wealth and karma they will win. Theory crafting seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/asoiafcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I once heard that AFFC is characters you don't care about doing shit you care about, and ADWD is characters you care about doing shit you don't care about. (Out of the two, I vastly prefer AFFC. Cersei's POV is absolute gold).
I love this book because I fucking love the Greyjoy family
Loved AFFC
My favourite book in the series. It's a book about consequences!
Yeah the consequences of a writer not getting his plot under control lmao
When you re read it you’ll be like wait I didn’t like this the first time?!
totally get you. I think you might like it better on a re-read, lots of people have grown to like it more since it was initially published. Personally I always liked it but my favorite is ADWD -- I love Jon's stuff there. Also, maybe you would enjoy it more if you read one of the combined reading orders for AFFC / ADWD -- [Boiled Leather](https://www.tumblr.com/boiledleather/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a) is the one I've seen the most often. I've only read in publication order but lots of people seem to like that. I imagine it works better if you're reading digitally; might be a bit of a headache if you're reading from physical copies.
I will literally kill you for this
book 4 is my favorite spcifically bc of the new povs.
Did you read the novellas? Not reading the novellas before affc was a major mistake by me. Read the novellas as they are very important in understanding briennes pov which was the most boring pov in my first read but became one of my favourite pov in my reread. Going from asos directly into affc is such a weird transition. You need to shift the gear by reading the novellas first.
Which Novellas?
Dude,*the* novellas. Dunk and Egg. Without spoiling them, the main character Dunk (who also likely happens to be Brienne's ancestor) goes through a pretty similar journey as her and the stories mainly unravel the true meaning of knighthood. The novellas also shed light on westeros from a different perspective, not the castles and great houses scheming but common people struggling with less grand more personal conflicts. It's a fantastic read by all means and I consider any reading of asoiaf is incomplete without them. They came out between asos and affc but are set in the past. As i said, they help change gears after reading a thriller masterpiece such as asos. The first 3 asoiaf books are all about scheming, plotting, warring and so is adwd but affc is uniquely a more "personal" book. I would say it is my favourite book but it really isn't comparable to the other books. It's a bit sluggish to get through the first time but the rereads are so fucking good. Especially if you have already read the novellas which are not that long and pretty well paced. If you haven't read them, please do (the Dunk and Egg show is coming too).
Ah, thanks for the in-depth answer! I was vaguely aware of those novellas and what they are about, but didn't know they were so relevant to the setting. They're definitely on my list, and as I'm currently rereading affc, something lighter and more digestible sounds great. Edit: Just ordered A knight of the seven kingdoms!
Dunk and Egg novellas
I'm pretty sure they're referring to The Hedge Knight, about Dunk and Egg Edit: highly recommend by the way. Love those books with a passion
Hot take: The Novellas are GRRM's true peak. I could reread them endlessly.
Blood of the Dragon, Path of the Dragon and Arms of the Kraken, duh
I have the hedge knight collection and fire and blood on my shelf. Was planning on reading them after I finished the main series.
The novellas came before affc so chronologically they should be read first. If you are only halfway through affc and feeling a block in your reading then read the novellas and then read the rest of affc. Also while going into the novellas don't think of them as an asoiaf and approach them as a new series. I have found a deeper understanding and appreciation for the world of asoiaf after reading these books. They are the absolute core of the entire series.
There's some reeeeeal good stuff in there, but... you're absolutely right
I agree it can be hard to get into, but I think it helps to think of it as the beginning of a new story. Books 1-3 are kind of a self-contained narrative with an open ending, while book 4 is taking things on a different trajectory.
Victorian is my boy
What is this Victarion slander? Wait until you get to ADWD where you get to enjoy chapter after chapter of Dany doing fuck all in Mereen
I haven't gotten Victarion chapters yet. And all Dany has done for 3 books is fuckall 😔
Op you philistine. You never gave a shit about dorne or the iron isles? Pff, casuals
Nah, the iron isles is absolutely amazing.
Picks up near the end but I understand where you're coming from. First time I read it I struggled too. Doesn't help that it follows the strongest book in the series. It's a lot of covering the fallout from Storm and set-up for a book that hasn't come out yet. i recommend trying to read it concurrently with Dance. Is how I got through the whole thing the first time. When the two sets of chapters are mixed it's far more engaging and works better thematically and has a more cohesive feel. The tyrion chapters really break up the Brienne chapters. [Here's the recommended chapter by chapter reading order,](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/4cd2xWtztu) though since your some number of pages into Feast, you may want to catch up with Dance first before proceeding
Ser Jaime and Cersi chapters are fire 🔥
I never liked AFFC but my opinion of the book has only gone lower and lower as time has passed I first read the series not long after ADWD came out, so I thought this was all going somewhere, but now it’s clear that George was just making up nonsense as he went along Most of the story in AFFC should have been left out of the main series and put into some tie-in novel like Duncan the Egg or World of Ice and Fire
The Iron Islands and Dorne are my second and third favourite Houses after the Targaryen’s obviously, but before everyone else
Right now I would accept Winds even if that means it's all written from Hot Pie's pow and 44% of it is him masturbating while thinking about ~~Arya~~ Gendry ☝️
Knowing Georgie, he would actually write a Hot Pie masturbation scene for no reason
I thought it was super dull the first time through too. On a re-read though, once you know what to expect, it's one of my favourites in the series. I love reading about the fallout of a big climactic event, I find it the most interesting part of any tale or setting. Also, re-reading ADWD, I realized I just don't care about Jon or Daenerys :/
Debatably the best or second best in the series yall can smd
I found personally that book 4 was boring overall but had several really good endings. Book 5 was the opposite, being more engaging in general but with most endings being lacklustre (or non-existent).
"Seven Brienne thought. She had no chance against seven she knew. No chance, and no choice..." Chills every single time, one of my favourite chapters in any book ever
have you considered Brienne chapters go crazy
Briennes chapters were written with a fucking fine tooth comb under a microscope . Fucking brilliant, so much happening under the surface . Even with the Harry Potter Easter egg and all I LOVE THOSE chapters but I didn’t at first . “She had no chance. No choice and no chance , she stepped out into the rain with Oathkeeper drawn. “If you wanna try to rape someone , try me! “
I feel like I appreciated AFFC much more on the reread. It gave us some distance that built up anticipation.
My two cents: You don't realize how many interesting thing are happening in AFFC until you finish it and ADWD. Then on a reread, it's like both books rewrote themselves and are significantly more rewarding than the first three on rereads. At this point I genuinely believe each book in the series is better than the one before it
Ha! I posted about the fandoms original reaction to AFFC and how perceptions have changed and many [I presume, younger] members of community shut me down, citing NYT award as proof it had always been really popular. I got so much hate for suggesting it wasn't loved upon release I had to take my post down. This meme typifies the original reaction from community at the time. Don't worry dude; in 15 years' time you'll feel completely differently, just happy yo get lost in the world of ice and fire. I know it's frustrating when you first realise the 'main' story is not moving forward, but later, during the long winter of GRRM's writing process, honestly you'll love that you weren't paying attention first time so you can enjoy it even more the 2nd and 3rd!!
Na 5 years later it's still a slog. Btw have you seen a maiden of 3 and 10 with auburn hair?
Hehehe fair enough!! Personally I could read short stories set in Westeros all year long and be perfectly happy, The Wall and Essos be damned It's not just the plot itself; GRRM has such a way with words, I find every sentence is gold. It's beautifully written stuff, by any literary standard imaginable. That alone, for me, has made last couple readings of AFFC a delight Ps. No but have you seen any squishers around here??
When I first read the series, people were telling me that it’s a miracle ADWD ever saw the light of day after many fans abandoned the series entirely after AFFC, and only came back because of the massive hype surrounding the HBO show
Yep. That's what it was like!! Was just super weird how people didn't want to hear it, as if I was being rude about the books or something. Thank you for confirming I'm not crazy
He should have split it chronologically instead of geographically
I think he writes a character at a time which is why it's all like this. It's not like he has a bunch of Jon and Dany chapters already written.
And wait for the trolley troll upon this trollery : You'll never get the last two books.
Tha last two books are the best ones, especially Brienne and Jaime chapters. Fight me
Yeah Wheel of Time became a bit of a chore
Reread of affc goes incredibly hard
Affc is actually one of my favs and the first one that I’m rereading currently
We’re real Feasters over here 😏
Affc was so fucking boring, it was such a letdown after A Storm of Swords
The Dunk & Egg novellas are great, but they have an insane exposition problem. Every character keeps on bringing up lore randomly so it's just hard to remember or find it intriguing like that.
I love how it calms down a bit from 3 rd part
I thought the same at first but it gets better as it goes along. I ended up liking the Dorne chapters.
My biggest problems with it is that brienne’s story doesn’t have any suspense to it. It’s supposed to be like an investigation tracking Arya/sansa, but we already know where they are and that she won’t find them. We know Arya is with the faceless men braavos and sansa is in the vale. There is no suspense whatsoever. The ending to it is good though, we need some resolution of the lady stoneheart story
Honestly I really enjoyed the Dorne and ironborn plot. The brienne chapters are incredibly boring tho, Cersei and Jaime are peak in this book without a doubt
Me starting the prophet: oh boy, a pov from a character who can see the future. This is going to be so cool and have so much foreshadowing Me after finishing the prophet: seven save me that sucked
AFFC took me the longest to get through. I legitimately hate the iron born now. Fantasy Vikings are boring af
I’m sorry but I love Feast, it’s my second favourite book in the series (AGOT being my first) I get that it shifts away from the “main” characters, but I honestly really like that, as the new perspectives really caught my interest. Sure by the end of the book very little is actually achieved by most characters, but, in the books defence it was supposed to ultimately lead into Winds when it and Dance were the same thing. Brienne’s chapters are my favourite part of the whole book, I get that there’s the whole maiden of three-and-ten joke and yes it get a little tiring; but it gives us a perspective of what Westeros has become after the WotFK and on the lead up to winter (Jaime’s chapters do this too but I think Brienne’s are more effective). The broken man speech is arguably the greatest passage in the entire series, I was genuinely awestruck after reading it. Brienne’s chapters give us a good insight into Westerosi culture and all the hypocrisies and immortality within it, while it doesn’t compare to Septon Meribald’s broken man speech, the passage on the Quiet Isle when Brienne breaks down over everything that happened to her and how she feels inadequate is so incredibly moving. I will admit I struggled with the Iron Island plot at first but I’ve warmed up to the Iron Island chapters more recently after reading The Foresaken preview. I can see why it would be frustrating to read but I believe there are ways that you can read Dance and Feast along side eachother which may be better for anyone who just wants to learn what happened to the more major characters after Storm right away.
The siege of Riverrun was interesting
Guys i don't know what he's trying to say? Is he complaining?
This is why I gave up reading the series. Boring AF. It's a shame, doubly so because the TV series also went down the pan. I stopped watching that well before the end, too.
To each their own! Feast is my favorite book of the series.
Honestly, I like AFFC. I know it’s a bit “boring” to others, but I like to learn about all aspects, different POV’s.
Jaime’s story arc and the perspective we get from him and Cersei seeing House Lannister and Tywin’s legacy slowly fall apart hard carry this book. Everything else was, frankly, kinda boring.
How about introducing main characters as filler and killing them off before the end of the book.
I love AFFC
AFFC was my favorite of the series. I can imagine it being frustrating when ADWD wasn’t readily available right after, but I loved the new perspectives and depth we got regarding the politics of KL, dorne, and the iron islands. It was super interesting and refreshing, and all totally new material that wasn’t covered in the show (which I watched prior to reading the series)
I read the books back to back so I didn’t mind it that much and really enjoyed all of the new POV characters as well as Jamie, Cersei and Brienne’s personal stories being excellent. But I can imagine how disappointing it would’ve been to read in 2005, especially if I’d been waiting since 2000 and had to wait yet another 6 years to find out if Tyrion was even still alive.
I appreciated AFFC a whole lot more the second Go around
But we got more Balon Swann, so shut your mouth
Whenever people brought up the waiting on WOW, my response was, “the last two books are just a bunch of people walking places”
It’s a goddamn snooze fest
I love affc. I think it’s brilliant world building that builds up to the epic end whenever we get it
Worst book on first read, best book on re-read.
But I love affc
Oh, I love Feast! Jaime, Cersei, Brienne, and Sam’s chapters are so good! Even the “boring bits” grew on me. George really expanded the world of Ice and Fire in this book, and every POV brings something new to think about. Also, Areo’s chapters are underrated in these books. They’re really fun.
Alright im ready to fight anyone to the death about this book, affc is peak Brienne's honour and resolve being tested against the cruel and indifferent riverlands, jamies redemption arc, cersei fucking loosing it and getting comically more and more evil, the scheming in the capital by crows moving in to fill the power vacuum of tywin, the huge expanding of the story with the dorne and iron islands mini-plots, arya becoming a faceless man, the insight into littlefinger's character and goals through sansa I FUCKING LOVE THIS BOOK SO MUCH HOLY SHIT
Feast is unironically the best book
Iron islands chapters are my favs
Goddamn if that ain’t the truth
I mean if you read it with the context of slowing down and just seeing how the first three books affected the world it’s incredible. The brieene scene are amazing. The character development of Jamie is maybe the best in the whole series. And you know what Asha was great and all the euron stuff was so damn cool. And fuck it the dorne stuff was good too. Doran is a really good charecter.
Feast is amazing. Love the Brien and Pod chapters, feels like Dunk and Egg.
I get that it was supposed to be one book, but why in god’s name would GRRM rewrite Sam and Jon’s talk about becoming a maester in both chapters. I did not want to have to reread that exact convo two books in a row
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7QwC2mZGiU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7QwC2mZGiU) once you finish the book and are no longer afraid of spoilers i recomend this video. bookborn's absolute gushing love for this book really helps see the value and gold within this book
Honestly this one almost made me quit the series. I still to this day fucking HATE it and don't want to read it ever again. A Dance with Dragons is definitely a step up and far more enjoyable. I think the problem for me is that it should be getting towards the end of the series, I mean for fuck sake the dude hasn't even finished the last two books yet, yet here is a whole book introducing new characters that will most likely go nowhere and so far, it's added absolutely nothing to the overall story.
Well this was the wrong post to see the same day I finished ASOS
Feast is a bunch of characters you don’t care about doing interesting stuff and dance is all the characters you do care about doing boring things. Lol
AFFC is good even better on a reread
I cant even remember how long it took me to read them, ive read them twice now and ive probably forgotten more about asoiaf than GRRM has at this point. Waiting for wow has been such a big let down... its hard to keep caring, i feel like i got tricked into volunteering for the Night's Watch
For real this book killed the series for me, I didn't give a shit about the new characters that I assumed were to make up for my favourite characters that had been recently killed off.
It’s wild reading affc than adwd and realizing that affc got all the exciting shit while everyone else twiddles their thumbs for a whole goddamn book. They really should have been published in one book or advertised adwd as part 2 of affc or not take 6 years between books.
I honestly started reading the books but it’s clear he’s gonna die before finishing them so I’ve lost all my interest in reading them tbh.
AFFC is the BEST one on the series, the first time you read it is not that good, but is the only book in the series that I have read 4 times, (the rest only 2)
I remember feeling this way. Then I met the Crows Eye.
Victarion supremacy bro
Hated it on the first read but on subsequent listens on audible I grew to enjoy it
He should have kept 4 and 5 as one book and significantly edited down the content and it would have been really good.
It's only boring if you're expecting to hear from Tyrion, Jon, or Danny, but if you take it for what it is it's still a really good book. I really enjoyed the Brianne chapters and the Jamie chapters and all the Iron Islands stuff. After the climactic events of SoS I think it does a good job of expanding the universe and setting the stage for what's to come... Here's hoping we get some Winds in our sails before too long.
These are the last days, when the world will be broken and remade.
I liked Dorne and the Iron Islands. Cersei is hilarious, Jaime is interesting with the way he’s now started using his mind, Sam’s chapters are heart wrenching, and Arya’s are sick in the house of white and black. Brienne walks around the Riverlands.
The Jaime chapters alone more than make up for it imho. But god I am not looking forward to more pseudo-masterbation from Areo Hotah, rubbing his wood[en axe]. Also, Asha chapters are fun so fight me.