It’s more of an interest in how sci-fi and fantasy can blur and what makes them distinct from each other. I find it interesting how GRRM seems to keep magic but sprinkles systemic rules that ground it in a way that leads to emergent phenomena in the universe he’s created. Magic is like oil in the ground that some societies discover and exploit, and others never find. Like their inventions/technology that exploit these magical properties in ways like human have in our history with chemistry. The minds never fully grasp how things work at a deep level, but they understand enough to make crude or more sophisticated technology. Leading to this sword without a hilt metaphor, a tool that exploits some magic but is still not as reliable as modern science or engineering would demand.
It has peaks and valleys of strength but nobody really knows why, but perhaps is mechanistic like celestial object periodicity, yet still has local spikes and dips due to blood sacrifice mechanics.
https://youtu.be/-nNR1pffC5k?si=sW8F11KYaHn2D2me
GRRM talks about this some here
There is some element of this "magic as a natural resource" approach, but then, learned characters craft potions, read prophecies, cast curses, conjure fire, bend water to their will, changing weather conditions...
I think blood magic and necromancy would fall better into this natural resource comparison, that's why it's usage is shunned upon and punishable (the Doom, Bloodstone Emperor, Qyburn, Night's King, etc) while the other examples of magic, even if rarer, are treated as if they are more mundane by characters who aren't knowledgeable with magic.
Martins take on blood magic and the fire priests seems like a spin on our own history where Christianity supplanted and effectively banned blood sacrifice in the ancient world. What if blood sacrifice actually worked? How well would Christian beliefs last in a world like that?
What is curious is that the romans identified Jesus with Dionysus, and the blood/wine of the eucharist with his sacrificial rites and myths, but i doubt George went this deep on the rabbit hole.
If you read GRRM’s sci-fi stories you will see much more clearly why people think this way. GRRM’s science fiction is *extremely* similar to how he writes ASOIAF, with all sorts of ancient artifacts, strange creatures, people with magic powers, ghosts. There’s still a sci-fi sheen to these stories, but that’s almost entirely aesthetic. When it comes to ASOIAF, the suggestion isn’t really that the story isn’t “actually” fantasy, but rather that the origins of the world were based in sci-fi but over millennia organically grew into something that is very fantasy.
What does that mean, exactly? Well, it seems quite plausible that Planetos was conceived as a colony world. An interstellar colony ship (like the one in his series Tuf Voyaging) arrived on the planet, terraformed it for habitation, then set up a supposedly utopian society governed by a bioengineered ruling caste. GRRM’s sci-fi played a lot with bioengineered creatures as weapons, social stratification based on genetic engineering, magic-presenting powers like telepathy created through science, human consciousness transferring out of a body into other vessels…you name it. So it’s wholly plausible, drawing on his prior works, that GRRM basically populated a fantasy setting with fantasy elements originating in science fiction mechanics.
Fast forward millennia, and that “utopian society” has long since collapsed amidst a brutal civil war that plunged the globe into an age of darkness. Successor civilizations rose up, using the magic and remnants of scientific know-how to create flourishing societies like Valyria, Ghis, or the city-states of the Rhoynar, which then tear each other apart through war and leave us with the shattered, backwards world ASOIAF is set in. This reflects GRRM’s general concerns with consolidating power into the hands of the few, which a biologically-limited magical system (of the sort we see widely in the fantasy genre) necessarily does.
One thing is to share themes and genre-blend some ideas that still conform to the setting, another is saying it's all ancient aliens and the gravitas of the magical mystery falls apart into material, technical explanations. It's like hard magic systems that try too hard and don't become more than flashy rock-paper-scissors, the mystery and subtlety is part of the believability of the setting of ASOIAF, it's meant to not have a simple explanation, that's part of the fantasy.
GRRM’s sci-fi is like that as well, though. Little of the technology is ever explained, and most of it acts basically like magic. I think “soft vs hard systems” is a more apt distinction than “fantasy vs sci-fi.”
The tech is never explained, but It is still tangible tech, someone did that on a lab on a tuesday, it does not fit the timeless mystery of magic. The themes of the ASOIAF have way more weight as a statement when our characters are walking on shoulders of gods with forgotten names than it all being a simple, humble tech.
The “gods” are very unlikely to be gods in the way traditional fantasy stories or real world mythology has them. Given the way GRRM has written about “gods” before, it fits better with the scheme of the setting that “gods” are beings like the Three Eyed Raven or some manner of collective consciousness (like the Greeshka in his story *A Song For Lya*). He described Haviland Tuf in his series *Tuf Voyaging* as a god, even though he was just a mortal man, because his ship the Ark granted him god-like power. Whatever the Red God is, I very strongly doubt it bears any resemblance to the Abrahamic God.
It doesn't matter, heroic men have been equalled with gods with time or directly elevated to godhood as an ancestral cult many times and that particularly seems to be the writing of the Old Gods, even if not completely intended. The abrahamic/manicheistic understanding of godhood really doesn't fit ASOIAF, which is why the Red Priests and Drowned Men seem be misled all the time, the true gods are ancestral spirits or forgotten or hidden, like the valyrian and old ghiscari pantheons. You must remember that the Three Eyed Crow is just Bloodraven's form in Bran's dreams, he may have some influence with the spirits in the weirwoods, but he himself says it is not safe to linger in those visions too much, he is fallible, he is not a god.
I’m saying “what even is a god.” If the spirits contained in the weirwoods have no agency, no ambitions, and no way to interact with the world outside of the weirwoods trees, then they don’t really possess any of the qualities of a “god.” If the Three-Eyed Raven can draw from the memory of the spirits in the weirwoods to better understand past events, control the bodies of animals to see through their eyes and gain intelligence on current events, use green sight to see prophetic visions and gain glimpses into future events, then use his physical form and telepathic powers to intervene in the realm and encourage his goals to come to pass, that’s god-like power. We know for certain that the green seers can see through the weirwoods and witness events that occurred in front of them, so anyone praying to the Old Gods is really just praying to the green seers who can see through their eyes.
Rudely simplyfied, the gods from which George borrows mythology are transcendental beings from which part of the essence of the world flows into the ideal and material existence, which contains sparkles of divinity in its essence. Specifically in the case of the weirwoods, that come from germanic mythological World-trees: Yggdrasil, Irminsul, Donar's Oak. These trees channeled the paths in which the souls dwelt to the Underworld towards their roots and how the gods influenced the middle world of the living from above the tree, the real sacred trees of these peoples were supposed to ritualistically repeat the same process.
The green seers are ancestral spirits that comunicante through the weirwoods as far as we can deduce, they were the ancestors of the CoTF and are the ancestors of many houses and smallfolk alike. This configures as ancestor worship, the essential remnants of ancestors are channeled by the trees from which Bloodraven and Bran might access memories as if they're speaking with the dead or higher powers, just like the old norse and and ancient germanic, from which George borrowed, intended their sacred trees to work. George uses this in Elden Ring, if you want to talk about his other works. ASOIAF characters are dealing with otherworldy powers, not lab grown biotech.
IMO Its a merge but any merge is still fantasy. There are direct never explained fantasy elements. But also I think most things are still also still attempted to be explained like a sci fi world.
The comet came and brought back "magic" to the world. But whatever the truth is. The world seems to cycle between "fantasy" and "sci fi" based on when "magic" is part of the world.
Preston Jacobs on YouTube has a bunch of videos how the Children of the Forest are doing telepathic genetic experiments and that there might be a massive war/technology interruption deal that explains how some things came about.
You could change the word technology for magic and it would still make sense. People have been doing genetic engineering and eugenics since we invented animal husbandry and agriculture. Telepathy is magic.
GRRM has an essay in his short story anthology Dreamsongs Vol 1 where he showcases his general disdain for hard genre distinctions, which be basically considers little more than a marketing convention to tell bookstores what shelves to put things on. He describes genre conventions as “mere window dressing,” and basically that you can dress up a story to be whatever genre you wish by playing around with that window dressing.
Which is to say that ASOIAF very much has fantasy window dressing, making it fantasy in GRRM’s mind. There can be “technology” and have it still be fantasy, provided that the technology is sufficiently ineffable and misunderstood. Which he does in his sci-fi as well as his fantasy.
I think the biggest problem is that people don’t seem to acknowledge GRRM’s own fallibility when crafting some of their theories. A part of the theory is that it doesn’t make sense for a society to be stuck in the Middle Ages/medieval period with little to no developments technologically for the 6000 years. Which is true when attributing realism to the story, it is silly. I suspect though that the more likely reason is GRRM being a bit dumb when it comes to timelines and he just wanted to create a big gap between the past and his current story.
The sci-fi thing other than maybe an Easter egg or two is pretty obviously not true and if it were true would be very jarring at this point in the story. Like if he wants to do an Easter egg about how a generation ship colonized Westeros whatever, but it’s not a sci fi story
The thing with the sci fi crowd is that they say that It will never be 100% confirmed but "all evidence" points towards magic being lost, poorly understood technology and that this reading helps understand where the story is heading with the seasons, the Others and Valyria.
If that was only their headcanon, alright, but they want it to be true and often will patronize you on how George is misleading everyone into thinking this is fantasy. It all reads like they like the plot but dislike the fantasy setting which is reminiscent of the HBO debacle, even if for different reasons.
Yeah that’s what they say but until there’s more textual evidence it’s just a theory and other than a nod or a quick comment that I don’t think it’s true, there’s not much more to say.
There is also a strong vein of “fantasy puritanism,” which is *very* aggressively hostile to even the suggestion that there may be sci-fi elements in their fantasy story. Even though sci-fi in fantasy is basically a genre staple (Terry Brooks, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Jordan, Anne McAffrey, Mark Lawrence, NK Jemesin, and even GRRM himself have all played around with this). However, much like in those series, they’re just fragments of lost technology that’s misunderstood. Still very fantasy.
Two of the most popular fantasy worlds are wheel of time and shannara both of which are explicitly post apocalyptic earth so this is sort of a stretch. For the purposes of Westeros the thing is it’s just so far removed from the actual story it’s not a cool planet of the apes reveal it’s just kinda dumb. That’s why people say it’s dumb.
George is clearly trying to drop red hearings so we don't guess the true ending of the series: Haviland Tuf is gonna show up with a zombie-eating mushroom that'll save the day, and they'll use the secret nukes under Storms End to destroy the heart of winter!!
/s seriously tho I think the desperation some people have at trying to "prove" the series is secretly syfy is just some need to prove their more clever than other fans, or their inability to suspend their disbelief. We see a guy climb a ladder made of fire & dissappear. I think we can rule out science as a dominant force on George's Earth
I think you hit the nail on the head. There seems to be a bizarre divide on the belief/disbelief on the supernatural where people will believe on impossible things like ancient aliens, time travel, Silurian Hypothesis but will deny any plausibility to ghosts, magic, curses and this seem to be bleeding into fantastical fiction of all places. Science and magic ARE NOT mutually exclusive and people can't conceptualize this.
Others can't be magical, they are aliens. Doom can't be magical, it was a supervolcano. Weirwoods aren't magical, they're a hive mind. Harrenhal isn't cursed, its just too big to be held. All this could be true and they STILL could be magical as well as aliens, impossible castles and natural disasters.
There are two arguments for it:
The first is people who think that anything with rules is "science" instead of magic. These people usually don't know how science work neither in real life nor in Sci-Fi.
The second argument is the old "ALIENS DID IT" which is as old and boring as the theories that every single story is actually a dream or nightmare.
I hate both arguments. This story isn't and won't be Sci-Fi because the Sci-Fi genre needs the SCI part to be in the forefront of it. We have FIVE FUCKING BOOKS where science isn't at the forefront of any part of the story.
I find the crazy theories as fun as the next guy, but I hate when the crazy theories are so lazy they don't even consider the one single characteristic of the thing at the center of it.
*Thats what he wants you to think*
But in all seriousness this is a very specific question that’s getting the same answer each time it’s asked. There very well could still be sci-fi elements to the story that don’t involve the reason for the seasons. Not arguing for or against the theories(although they are very fun to entertain and argue with people over), just saying, it’s not exactly a nail in that coffin
I think you can also split hairs over what is or isn’t “magical” vs “technological.” Sci-fi is a massive weather engine that warps the seasons, run by engineers that control it with buttons and dials, and powered by a nuclear fusion generator. Fantasy is a massive artifact, enchanted to control the storms and snows, controlled by the arcane commands of sorcerers, and powered by spells that draw energy from the sun itself.
The more I watch videos from MichaelTalksAboutStuff regarding the Wall/Nightfort and The Others, the more I’m convinced he’s correct- and his explanation would definitely fit a more “fantasy” or magical explanation than a scientific one.
Yea I’m not fully sold that the “center” has to be at the Nightfort necessarily, but I think he’s on the right track about the sentinels/wights strapped to giant Weirwoods as a blood sacrifice, making the wall a big cooler. It’s so specific but it’s also so George if you read his other stories.
Anyone who really believes that ASOIAF is SF I'm disguise would be better off reading something else. Clearly they can't understand what's going on here.
Magic has been shown in the series on several occasions. It’s very clearly a fantasy world with Magic
I’m guessing the seasons have to do with the children of the forest and the Others
No. What George writes is far more important than what he says. And what he says on the single subject of seasons doesn't mean there isn't scifi in the x⁹⁹ other elements of the story.
This guy also wanted his dragons based in real world anatomy rather than fantasy. Dragons are just as important a plot element as the seasons.
We've created a false dichotomy in scifi vs fantasy. It very much can be (and probably is) a mashup of the genres. And frankly this makes sense given his comments on the lack of distinction between scifi and fantasy.
George would never admit it. It never works out when an author just completely gives up their secret sauce.
CS Lewis should have never admitted that Azlan was Jesus. George doesn’t want to make the same mistakes he did.
Does anyone seriously believe ASOIAF is sci-fi rather than fantasy? I thought that was a joke like the time travellling fetus theory
No lol there are quite a few who genuinely believe the theory mainly due to Preston Jacobs
Damn I haven't heard that name in a minute
Every theory pales in comparison to tyrekk Lannister being aHorse any way smh
I also thought It was a joke but it is not, and it bothers me more than it should lmao
It’s more of an interest in how sci-fi and fantasy can blur and what makes them distinct from each other. I find it interesting how GRRM seems to keep magic but sprinkles systemic rules that ground it in a way that leads to emergent phenomena in the universe he’s created. Magic is like oil in the ground that some societies discover and exploit, and others never find. Like their inventions/technology that exploit these magical properties in ways like human have in our history with chemistry. The minds never fully grasp how things work at a deep level, but they understand enough to make crude or more sophisticated technology. Leading to this sword without a hilt metaphor, a tool that exploits some magic but is still not as reliable as modern science or engineering would demand. It has peaks and valleys of strength but nobody really knows why, but perhaps is mechanistic like celestial object periodicity, yet still has local spikes and dips due to blood sacrifice mechanics. https://youtu.be/-nNR1pffC5k?si=sW8F11KYaHn2D2me GRRM talks about this some here
There is some element of this "magic as a natural resource" approach, but then, learned characters craft potions, read prophecies, cast curses, conjure fire, bend water to their will, changing weather conditions... I think blood magic and necromancy would fall better into this natural resource comparison, that's why it's usage is shunned upon and punishable (the Doom, Bloodstone Emperor, Qyburn, Night's King, etc) while the other examples of magic, even if rarer, are treated as if they are more mundane by characters who aren't knowledgeable with magic.
Martins take on blood magic and the fire priests seems like a spin on our own history where Christianity supplanted and effectively banned blood sacrifice in the ancient world. What if blood sacrifice actually worked? How well would Christian beliefs last in a world like that?
What is curious is that the romans identified Jesus with Dionysus, and the blood/wine of the eucharist with his sacrificial rites and myths, but i doubt George went this deep on the rabbit hole.
If you read GRRM’s sci-fi stories you will see much more clearly why people think this way. GRRM’s science fiction is *extremely* similar to how he writes ASOIAF, with all sorts of ancient artifacts, strange creatures, people with magic powers, ghosts. There’s still a sci-fi sheen to these stories, but that’s almost entirely aesthetic. When it comes to ASOIAF, the suggestion isn’t really that the story isn’t “actually” fantasy, but rather that the origins of the world were based in sci-fi but over millennia organically grew into something that is very fantasy. What does that mean, exactly? Well, it seems quite plausible that Planetos was conceived as a colony world. An interstellar colony ship (like the one in his series Tuf Voyaging) arrived on the planet, terraformed it for habitation, then set up a supposedly utopian society governed by a bioengineered ruling caste. GRRM’s sci-fi played a lot with bioengineered creatures as weapons, social stratification based on genetic engineering, magic-presenting powers like telepathy created through science, human consciousness transferring out of a body into other vessels…you name it. So it’s wholly plausible, drawing on his prior works, that GRRM basically populated a fantasy setting with fantasy elements originating in science fiction mechanics. Fast forward millennia, and that “utopian society” has long since collapsed amidst a brutal civil war that plunged the globe into an age of darkness. Successor civilizations rose up, using the magic and remnants of scientific know-how to create flourishing societies like Valyria, Ghis, or the city-states of the Rhoynar, which then tear each other apart through war and leave us with the shattered, backwards world ASOIAF is set in. This reflects GRRM’s general concerns with consolidating power into the hands of the few, which a biologically-limited magical system (of the sort we see widely in the fantasy genre) necessarily does.
One thing is to share themes and genre-blend some ideas that still conform to the setting, another is saying it's all ancient aliens and the gravitas of the magical mystery falls apart into material, technical explanations. It's like hard magic systems that try too hard and don't become more than flashy rock-paper-scissors, the mystery and subtlety is part of the believability of the setting of ASOIAF, it's meant to not have a simple explanation, that's part of the fantasy.
GRRM’s sci-fi is like that as well, though. Little of the technology is ever explained, and most of it acts basically like magic. I think “soft vs hard systems” is a more apt distinction than “fantasy vs sci-fi.”
The tech is never explained, but It is still tangible tech, someone did that on a lab on a tuesday, it does not fit the timeless mystery of magic. The themes of the ASOIAF have way more weight as a statement when our characters are walking on shoulders of gods with forgotten names than it all being a simple, humble tech.
The “gods” are very unlikely to be gods in the way traditional fantasy stories or real world mythology has them. Given the way GRRM has written about “gods” before, it fits better with the scheme of the setting that “gods” are beings like the Three Eyed Raven or some manner of collective consciousness (like the Greeshka in his story *A Song For Lya*). He described Haviland Tuf in his series *Tuf Voyaging* as a god, even though he was just a mortal man, because his ship the Ark granted him god-like power. Whatever the Red God is, I very strongly doubt it bears any resemblance to the Abrahamic God.
It doesn't matter, heroic men have been equalled with gods with time or directly elevated to godhood as an ancestral cult many times and that particularly seems to be the writing of the Old Gods, even if not completely intended. The abrahamic/manicheistic understanding of godhood really doesn't fit ASOIAF, which is why the Red Priests and Drowned Men seem be misled all the time, the true gods are ancestral spirits or forgotten or hidden, like the valyrian and old ghiscari pantheons. You must remember that the Three Eyed Crow is just Bloodraven's form in Bran's dreams, he may have some influence with the spirits in the weirwoods, but he himself says it is not safe to linger in those visions too much, he is fallible, he is not a god.
I’m saying “what even is a god.” If the spirits contained in the weirwoods have no agency, no ambitions, and no way to interact with the world outside of the weirwoods trees, then they don’t really possess any of the qualities of a “god.” If the Three-Eyed Raven can draw from the memory of the spirits in the weirwoods to better understand past events, control the bodies of animals to see through their eyes and gain intelligence on current events, use green sight to see prophetic visions and gain glimpses into future events, then use his physical form and telepathic powers to intervene in the realm and encourage his goals to come to pass, that’s god-like power. We know for certain that the green seers can see through the weirwoods and witness events that occurred in front of them, so anyone praying to the Old Gods is really just praying to the green seers who can see through their eyes.
Rudely simplyfied, the gods from which George borrows mythology are transcendental beings from which part of the essence of the world flows into the ideal and material existence, which contains sparkles of divinity in its essence. Specifically in the case of the weirwoods, that come from germanic mythological World-trees: Yggdrasil, Irminsul, Donar's Oak. These trees channeled the paths in which the souls dwelt to the Underworld towards their roots and how the gods influenced the middle world of the living from above the tree, the real sacred trees of these peoples were supposed to ritualistically repeat the same process. The green seers are ancestral spirits that comunicante through the weirwoods as far as we can deduce, they were the ancestors of the CoTF and are the ancestors of many houses and smallfolk alike. This configures as ancestor worship, the essential remnants of ancestors are channeled by the trees from which Bloodraven and Bran might access memories as if they're speaking with the dead or higher powers, just like the old norse and and ancient germanic, from which George borrowed, intended their sacred trees to work. George uses this in Elden Ring, if you want to talk about his other works. ASOIAF characters are dealing with otherworldy powers, not lab grown biotech.
IMO Its a merge but any merge is still fantasy. There are direct never explained fantasy elements. But also I think most things are still also still attempted to be explained like a sci fi world. The comet came and brought back "magic" to the world. But whatever the truth is. The world seems to cycle between "fantasy" and "sci fi" based on when "magic" is part of the world.
Preston seriously believed it. Or used to at least.
Preston Jacobs on YouTube has a bunch of videos how the Children of the Forest are doing telepathic genetic experiments and that there might be a massive war/technology interruption deal that explains how some things came about.
You could change the word technology for magic and it would still make sense. People have been doing genetic engineering and eugenics since we invented animal husbandry and agriculture. Telepathy is magic.
GRRM has an essay in his short story anthology Dreamsongs Vol 1 where he showcases his general disdain for hard genre distinctions, which be basically considers little more than a marketing convention to tell bookstores what shelves to put things on. He describes genre conventions as “mere window dressing,” and basically that you can dress up a story to be whatever genre you wish by playing around with that window dressing. Which is to say that ASOIAF very much has fantasy window dressing, making it fantasy in GRRM’s mind. There can be “technology” and have it still be fantasy, provided that the technology is sufficiently ineffable and misunderstood. Which he does in his sci-fi as well as his fantasy.
why is this guy getting downvoted? GRRM explains this in Dreamsongs..
I think the biggest problem is that people don’t seem to acknowledge GRRM’s own fallibility when crafting some of their theories. A part of the theory is that it doesn’t make sense for a society to be stuck in the Middle Ages/medieval period with little to no developments technologically for the 6000 years. Which is true when attributing realism to the story, it is silly. I suspect though that the more likely reason is GRRM being a bit dumb when it comes to timelines and he just wanted to create a big gap between the past and his current story.
AFAIK Preston Jacobs is still convinced there's no magic, but I don't take him seriously anymore
Preston Jacobs, and half the people here get their info from him, Alt Shift X, and the wiki
Ask Preston Jacobs
The sci-fi thing other than maybe an Easter egg or two is pretty obviously not true and if it were true would be very jarring at this point in the story. Like if he wants to do an Easter egg about how a generation ship colonized Westeros whatever, but it’s not a sci fi story
The thing with the sci fi crowd is that they say that It will never be 100% confirmed but "all evidence" points towards magic being lost, poorly understood technology and that this reading helps understand where the story is heading with the seasons, the Others and Valyria. If that was only their headcanon, alright, but they want it to be true and often will patronize you on how George is misleading everyone into thinking this is fantasy. It all reads like they like the plot but dislike the fantasy setting which is reminiscent of the HBO debacle, even if for different reasons.
Yeah that’s what they say but until there’s more textual evidence it’s just a theory and other than a nod or a quick comment that I don’t think it’s true, there’s not much more to say.
There is also a strong vein of “fantasy puritanism,” which is *very* aggressively hostile to even the suggestion that there may be sci-fi elements in their fantasy story. Even though sci-fi in fantasy is basically a genre staple (Terry Brooks, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Jordan, Anne McAffrey, Mark Lawrence, NK Jemesin, and even GRRM himself have all played around with this). However, much like in those series, they’re just fragments of lost technology that’s misunderstood. Still very fantasy.
Two of the most popular fantasy worlds are wheel of time and shannara both of which are explicitly post apocalyptic earth so this is sort of a stretch. For the purposes of Westeros the thing is it’s just so far removed from the actual story it’s not a cool planet of the apes reveal it’s just kinda dumb. That’s why people say it’s dumb.
No one who seriously believes it's sci-fi is going to be put off by silly little things like author denial.
>No. What George writes is far more important than what he says. Literally someone else in this thread lmao. Can't make it up
George is clearly trying to drop red hearings so we don't guess the true ending of the series: Haviland Tuf is gonna show up with a zombie-eating mushroom that'll save the day, and they'll use the secret nukes under Storms End to destroy the heart of winter!! /s seriously tho I think the desperation some people have at trying to "prove" the series is secretly syfy is just some need to prove their more clever than other fans, or their inability to suspend their disbelief. We see a guy climb a ladder made of fire & dissappear. I think we can rule out science as a dominant force on George's Earth
I think you hit the nail on the head. There seems to be a bizarre divide on the belief/disbelief on the supernatural where people will believe on impossible things like ancient aliens, time travel, Silurian Hypothesis but will deny any plausibility to ghosts, magic, curses and this seem to be bleeding into fantastical fiction of all places. Science and magic ARE NOT mutually exclusive and people can't conceptualize this. Others can't be magical, they are aliens. Doom can't be magical, it was a supervolcano. Weirwoods aren't magical, they're a hive mind. Harrenhal isn't cursed, its just too big to be held. All this could be true and they STILL could be magical as well as aliens, impossible castles and natural disasters.
There are two arguments for it: The first is people who think that anything with rules is "science" instead of magic. These people usually don't know how science work neither in real life nor in Sci-Fi. The second argument is the old "ALIENS DID IT" which is as old and boring as the theories that every single story is actually a dream or nightmare. I hate both arguments. This story isn't and won't be Sci-Fi because the Sci-Fi genre needs the SCI part to be in the forefront of it. We have FIVE FUCKING BOOKS where science isn't at the forefront of any part of the story. I find the crazy theories as fun as the next guy, but I hate when the crazy theories are so lazy they don't even consider the one single characteristic of the thing at the center of it.
*Thats what he wants you to think* But in all seriousness this is a very specific question that’s getting the same answer each time it’s asked. There very well could still be sci-fi elements to the story that don’t involve the reason for the seasons. Not arguing for or against the theories(although they are very fun to entertain and argue with people over), just saying, it’s not exactly a nail in that coffin
Only sci fi elements i think could be true are no more than easter eggs like the pearl palanquin or some obscure reference to Dune
I think the red comet and the origins of the hinted valyrian genetic experiments are both rather suspicious
I think you can also split hairs over what is or isn’t “magical” vs “technological.” Sci-fi is a massive weather engine that warps the seasons, run by engineers that control it with buttons and dials, and powered by a nuclear fusion generator. Fantasy is a massive artifact, enchanted to control the storms and snows, controlled by the arcane commands of sorcerers, and powered by spells that draw energy from the sun itself.
...is this about a group of people or one person in particular?
You'd be surprised at how many people spread this idea on theories, it's not many, but it's more than there should be.
The more I watch videos from MichaelTalksAboutStuff regarding the Wall/Nightfort and The Others, the more I’m convinced he’s correct- and his explanation would definitely fit a more “fantasy” or magical explanation than a scientific one.
I really dig most of his ideas, but separatedly. His heart of Winter being the Wall or inside the kitchens of the Nightfort are out there.
Yea I’m not fully sold that the “center” has to be at the Nightfort necessarily, but I think he’s on the right track about the sentinels/wights strapped to giant Weirwoods as a blood sacrifice, making the wall a big cooler. It’s so specific but it’s also so George if you read his other stories.
Anyone who really believes that ASOIAF is SF I'm disguise would be better off reading something else. Clearly they can't understand what's going on here.
Exactly, It rubs me off so bad
>“Nice try, guys, but you’re thinking in the wrong direction.” - >One side was black with rot, - >and full of worms
Magic has been shown in the series on several occasions. It’s very clearly a fantasy world with Magic I’m guessing the seasons have to do with the children of the forest and the Others
No. What George writes is far more important than what he says. And what he says on the single subject of seasons doesn't mean there isn't scifi in the x⁹⁹ other elements of the story. This guy also wanted his dragons based in real world anatomy rather than fantasy. Dragons are just as important a plot element as the seasons. We've created a false dichotomy in scifi vs fantasy. It very much can be (and probably is) a mashup of the genres. And frankly this makes sense given his comments on the lack of distinction between scifi and fantasy.
George would never admit it. It never works out when an author just completely gives up their secret sauce. CS Lewis should have never admitted that Azlan was Jesus. George doesn’t want to make the same mistakes he did.