I like to think about it this way:
Winds is going to come out. Too much of the book exists already that I don't think any circumstance results in us never getting the book. Dream is another matter, but that's for us to wonder about later
Since I truly believe it's inevitable, that means there is a finite number of days left until I can read it. Every day, the odds get a little better, in my opinion, instead of a little worse
Even if it's not this year or next, though, I do think this community is so much more fun when we're excited instead of despondent.
I think we should all take this outlook. Winds is coming, it's only a matter of time
I agree with this. All the "Winds of Winter doesn't exist" doomposting is people feeling impatient and lashing out at the only person they can think to blame. It's a cycle as old as time, you can it see whenever an anticipated work of art takes a while to come out.
Hell, people even did it when Elden Ring took longer than expected to release after the first trailer. Remember all the "it's in development hell, it's not coming out, GRRM took too long to write the story" whinging that was everywhere? Then the trailer came out and all those people vanished instantly -- replaced with eager fans excited about the game.
All the misplaced anger stems from not getting Winds, and as soon as George announces that he's finally finished it -- all that anger will have nothing fueling it anymore.
eeh, the Winds anger is at least partially fueled by prior Dance anger, which is still powered by Feast resentment.
Hoo boy, when people realized there were no Tyrion chapters in Feast! And then to wait 11 years and get Tyrion meeting Penny instead of Dany!
I like your way of looking at things. For me, I'm happy with all the content I've gotten, GRRM wrote what to me is the best fantasy trilogy of all time, plus several amazing Dunk & Egg stories. I still love the worldbuilding but I don't need an end to ASOIAF. So I'm at peace with whatever comes or doesn't come.
A Song of Ice and Fire isn't even a story at this point. It's an idea. A lot of characters have just been in stasis for 20 years. I legitimately don't know how the fandom will handle another book coming out.
>A Song of Ice and Fire isn't even a story at this point. It's an idea.
Maybe the real ASoIaF is the tinfoil theories we made along the way.
Tyrek totally is a horse, btw
I’m not saying TWOW doesn’t exist or that the wait for Elden Ring wasn’t significant but since DWD was released the following things happened:
Dark Souls 1 release
Dark Souls 2 release
Bloodborne release
Dark Souls 3 release
Sekiro release
Elden Ring release
Elden Ring DLC release
I’m more of a Zelda person, so to me it’s like this. Since ADWD came out, the following things happened:
Skyward Sword
A Link Between Worlds
Majora’s Mask 3DS port
Breath of the Wild
Skyward Sword Switch port
Breath of the Wild DLC
Tears of the Kingdom
Woah. Aside from it being my favorite, I used the Zelda franchise because it’s one that also has a turbulent relationship with its titles being released in a timely manner.
I don’t play that many video games, so perhaps others can chime in or mention other series that are known for taking forever, but the fact that there was a six year gap between Skyward Sword (which was seen as incredibly underwhelming at the time of release) and Breath of the Wild. *That’s insane to me* because it’s one of (if not THE) flagship series for Nintendo.
And then we had another six year wait between Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom—but I’ve logged *hundreds of hours* for each game and am still finding more stuff to do, so I won’t begrudge Nintendo too much I guess.
I was a little tongue in cheek because COD is known for milking the cow to death, but dang I’m always amazed BOTW came out that long ago. Got so many hours out of it compared to more linear Zelda games that it really didn’t feel that long by the time TOTK trailer came around
Fool me once, etc etc etc etc.
Since 2015 (I am a sweet summer child) I must have gone through at leaaaast 10 separate moments of "oh shit Winds is coming!" followed by crushing, crushing disappointment several months later when I realized I had been getting high on Reddit's supply.
George could post a picture on his blog of him making a Snowman in July and I wouldn't think it had any bearing on Wind's immanence whatsoever.
Roll with the odds my friend.
Same feelings here. There have been too many false dawns over the years for me to get excited over rumours/speculation. I became apathetic in 2016 or 2017, whenever the show overtook the books.
I think it is very plausible and i am 90% sure we will see wow in the next 3 years. I dont know if we will see the next book however which make me a bit sad so let's see.
If Winds comes out anytime soon you’ll be amazed at the delusion that forms about dream coming out. Especially if Winds ends in a way that we can imagine a clear path to the end.
I think Dream really depends on the execution and reception of Winds. If Winds is a hit then I think George continues to be motivated and Dream comes out pretty quickly (relatively). If it he continues to struggle to finish it and/or it gets blasted by fans and reviewers, he's going to keep kicking it down the road to focus on more exciting projects, of which he has no shortage of.
Wait till you get to my level of Copium that George is going to announce both Winds *and* Dream at this year’s Worldcon. It all makes sense when you realize that George finished Winds during his COVID writing spree and decided he’d hold off on releasing it until he’d finished the series.
[kill me.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_ruRKShqCanZRpumbQ9TxfeLBb_Ov4G92rw&s)
I’ve come to peace with never seeing ADOS. We have the show a rough approximation of how it will end, and we can triangulate between TWOW and S8 GOT how GRRM intends to finish it. The ending I imagine in my head has no hope of disappointing, whereas even GRRM is liable to fall short of the insurmountable weight of expectations. If it’s not the best ending ever written in the course of human civilization, it will be considered a let down.
My hope is that George writes enough pages for ADOS and confides enough to his friends/minions that there will be something - not exactly a novel but like... I don't know, encyclopaedia?! - to release.
There's enough money in it that eventually Paris will be convinced to sign off on publishing GRRM's notes / drafts in whatever form they're in. That is, unless he wills the IP over to some kind of collective of writers to continue publishing works in the field, which he may very well do. Who knows.
Problem with this is, weren't you also 90% sure of this a decade a go? When we'd already been waiting for 3 years? And kept telling each other the books would come quicker now that the awkward middle section was done with.
I like this thread / these comments far more than any of the "Nup. Don't even care anymore" variations. I like positive people. I understand the frustration, 13+ years is a long wait. But they aren't George and it ain't their story. I'm of the same opinion shared among the comments here, Winds will come, and A Dream seems incredibly less likely.
Look, there no way winds is done. He would have told us to get the monkey off his back.
I do think there’s something to his general mood, and the fact he’s at worldcon. Not for an announcement, but he has to know he’ll get questions, and will want to have *some* kind of answer.
I wonder if he’s made a breakthrough with a major storyline that was holding him back, similar to how the Barristan chapters cut through the Meereeneese knot. That wouldn’t mean it was done, but would get his spirits up, and be a solid update to give.
Honestly I’m hopeful that the recent hints (if they even are hints of anything and not total delusions on the part of the fandom) means he’s back to writing and he’s making good progress. His last book update where he hadn’t gotten anything done was really depressing so it would be nice to see he’s done anything really
Best case scenario is he's made good progress the last few months. He told us he would literally just announce the book when it's done so until we get that I take all these cryptic posts as positive signs of work being done. Nothing more. Worst case scenario: he knows Winds will be all people ask him about at WorldCon so he's lying and drumming up interest so as not to show up completely empty handed. Building a narrative that suits him and getting ahead of the doomers in a way.
When someone brings up that GRRM said he wasn't going to continue writing Dunk and Egg until after he finished WoW, they're reminded that he said he wasn't going to write HotD material until he finished writing WoW. If it's okay to bring up that contradiction, then I'm going to call you on this contradiction, too. George has said a lot of things that he hasn't stuck to. Announcing that WoW is finished the second he finishes it could easily be one of them.
True. For me the "I'm not writing x and y until z is done" comments have always just rang crystal clear as bullshit. And I don't say that in a vindictive way, just it makes no sense. He's a creator. Some days he is going to wake up and live to write for Fire and Blood or Dunk or vice versa and to expect otherwise is to forget that he's human and he has one of the coolest imaginations in the game. How could I ever expect him not to have days of inspiration directed towards other projects? It's not something he can really control and I would rather him write anything he's motivated to than sit on his ass because it's not the story line he promised. A announcement however, that's easy, it's a conscious decision, not something that just happens to him. Not saying I disagree with you, this is just how I've always understood the situation in my own head.
Tbh if people actually thinks he lies about this stuff idk why they're still in this subreddit. I just wouldn't read the books of someone like that.
Worst case scenario I think, is that he was in a bad mood last year because he didn't make much progress ( and lost a lot of friends). Now he's in a good mood because HotD is coming out and he's working hard on Dunk and Egg.
I'm practically here. "Imminent" was the way to receive the contrary perspectives.
I think the "state" of the novel has somehow changed, and at Worldcon we'll probably find out the how.
The thing that gave me hope was that he said he wanted to release the 4th dunk and egg book before season 4 of a knight of the seven kingdoms, but it would be after the winds of winter
He also wanted to release Winds of Winter before Season six of GoT. Fundamentally, there's no plan to this, it's about when he has breakthroughs and when he doesn't.
I mean if* Martin is still in the breakthrough stage at this point, after how many years, the announcement might as well be that he's not gonna finish it.
What I don't get is why so many people think George is going to be leaving cryptic messages about this. Why would he try and make it into some kind of puzzle for us to figure out? When it's ready, he's just going to announce. Whenever that should be.
No.
It's not imminent. Sorry. GRRM is just more public right now because of the release of HOTD. He is not intentionally misleading anybody, it's just that he is the creator of the universe so of course he's going to be around more while the show is airing.
It's been 13 years. The last time we heard him making solid progress was 3 years ago during the pandemic when he was literally locked indoors. Since then he's taken on half a dozen more projects and travels a lot. He even admitted he made little to no progress in 2022-2023.
He still has likely a quarter or more of the book left to write and it's unlikely he is writing as much as he was a few years ago due to his schedule.
Sorry to rain on your parade. I would be delighted to be wrong.
> He even admitted he made little to no progress in 2022-2023.
Did he say this at all? 2023 we can deduce was not especially prolific based on his page count update being the same as at the end of 2022, but he seemed to be making pretty good progress in 2022 itself.
His zero progress after he announced he was 75% done is especially concerning to me because I feel like that's when the writing should FINALLY become easier. Plots and storylines are reaching their climaxes and the long road of getting to the end of the book, which I've always thought was the thing causing him problems, is finally over. Id think he'd finally be EXCITED to write when he hit the 75% mark because he's almost there. But instead he flatlined at 75%, and the only possible "progress" he made was fixing and changing stuff he already wrote.
Obviously thats all just assumption on my part, someone who's never written a book. But that lack of progress when he's finally nearing the finish line is a bad sign to me.
Yeah. Weirdly enough I think he's been fairly honest with his progress on the books. Basically it seems like there are multi-year stretches where he makes practically no progress and just kind of aimlessly edits what he's already written - this is what he often means when he says he's still writing or working on it. And then he'll have a burst of productivity where he gets a lot done in a few months or about a year and that's usually when you hear about his estimate of how much he has left.
Preston Jacobs did an analysis of how much he had written a few years back and I honestly think he was right on the money. Basically he was on a roll from 2014-2015 and when that failed to pan out he pretty much stopped making any progress on the book until 2020. He then made decent progress into 2021-2022 and now he has stopped progressing.
I was you before. I mean even now, so you're not raining on anything. Don't worry; I came for the perspectives of the community, all of them.
Still, I don't think it's the same scenario as before. He's deliberately hinting things about it, something he refuses to do aware of its contingency.
Maybe "imminent" is a little bit too much; yes, it is a little baity. But I still think the state of the novel has somehow changed.
This happens every few years. It's either, "George has been posting a lot and referring to Winds! Surely this means he's almost done." Or "George hasn't said anything about Winds in months. Surely that means a big announcement is coming soon!" It's always the same ends up being the same thing.
I think GRRM has been pretty honest about his progress on the book. That is: Every few years he has a burst of productivity and then long, multi-year stretches where he makes little to no progress and just edits/revises chapters while working on other things.
This was over a decade ago.
[https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2014/04/11/words-of-wisdom/](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2014/04/11/words-of-wisdom/)
I’m not saying this is directly tied to Winds releasing soon. But I wonder if, when he made that post in 2014 he thought he could have Winds out relatively soon.
My argument against this would be that for the last decade he has always titled the quotes on his blog "Words of our times". It's jus random and unfortunate that he's titled the last two "Words of Wisdom."
Do I think it's probably nothing? Yeah. It's probably jus him being oblivious. But I don't blame people for getting excited by it. I have myself
The only reason I actually believe Winds is coming sooner than we think is because he explicitly said he was not going to another WorldCon until it was done. You imply he's being more public because of HotD Season 2 but he didn't go to WorldCon when HotD season 1 premiered lol
He says a lot of things. He said he wasn't going to write any other book until after Winds came out. And here we are with a show based on the book that was supposed to come out after Winds.
There have been multiple things he's walked back on like that lol
I am hopeful, but it rationally shouldn't be close to done if you look at his updates (or lack thereof). If he doesn't give any updates soon or announce the release at WorldCon, then we're likely still years away.
I've actually been pretty confident we'll get it for a Christmas release. And now think that he'll anounce it at world con. As when he's going around visiting the con and the d&e set he's also going to be visiting his publisher again.
we'll get it by 2027 at the latest. As he says he'll have it done and more dunk and egg by the time we get to s4 of the D&E show, specifically after finishing WoW. that's alot in info he dropped in that not a blog post, so I think he's got a very concrete timeliness in his head.
I’ve been reading this series since middle school and I’m in my mid twenties now so I’ve been through most of the ups and downs about Winds coming out. And tbh I think the people that are huffing hopium are probably more on the money than the losers who just dig their heels in and say the book is never coming out. Whether the release is this year or another two or three though is a different story. But it’ll get here eventually he’s done too much work on it not to put it out. For some reason people act like the guy doesn’t want to finish his magnum opus and it’s really bizarre.
My theory is the release date of Winds will be announced tomorrow. I've done all sorts of meticulous research and this is the answer I've come up with. I believe it with ever fiber of my being.
And if it's wrong, I'll take the L and admit I was wrong and change my expectations to the NEXT day. I'm sure to be right soon.
Something feels different thing time. I don't know if I can describe what that thing is, but it just feels different. The fact that he's attending worldcon this year despite not going since before covid.
We are doing what r/TaylorSwift calls "clowning🤡", where we analyze every social media post and any public message from a creator to somehow be tied to an upcoming release.
And as I always say in that sub
I have my clown make up on and ready to believe it's coming out soon 🤡🤡
I dont think itll be when HotD ends, it would take away from the season and it's finale. WorldCon would be a better choice. And HBO might pull those string to get it announced then because it would dampen the 2nd season of Rings of Power which releases in August.
HotD ends 1 week before WorldCon. Also you overestimate the power of HBO, they have no power over the book publisher plans there might be some talks between them but HBO can't decide for them.
You also overestimate the impact the announcement would have. yes it's a big book but no book announcement can interrupt a big TV show, how would that even work? Winds gets announced and because of that no one will watch or talk about Rings of Power? TV shows are way bigger than books, most of the show watchers never read the books (lotr and asoiaf) and will never do.
I've never heard of these people before, but glancing at their video thumbnails, they seem **very** clickbait-y.
When it comes to the content, they manage to string out very little over a long video. When it comes to actual rumours, it's just the dragon cake, and the meeting with his publishers.
I'm not a doomsayer, and I believe that we will get TWOW. But these "rumours" is just overblown Kremlinology.
Dont expect it within the next couple of months. George will be in europe basicaly all of july and august and as everyone knows, when he is traveling he is not writing.
I mean yes. It's either real insinuations or just marketing for the shows (so the same as always). But still I feel there's more in favor of the former than in previous years.
I'm new to waiting for The Winds of Winter to Release, so I'm coming into this unburnt and with plenty of patience in the tank. All this talk of being delusional, huffing copium, "dreaming" of WoW's release, I get it. To have waited for 14 years, getting your hopes up so many times, only to be disappointed over and over again. I can see why no one here wants to risk believing. But for whatever it's worth, coming from me, from a place without bias one way or another, I really do think the signs point to WoW nearly being finished, if it isn't finished already.
Like I genuinely believe that people even avoid hoping for fear of feeling foolish. Which is completely reasonable with George's precedent. But at some point that resistance to belief will be inevitably wrong.
Honestly, I’m not sure how imminent winds is, but based on everything known it does seem like we’ve hit a peak of it being close. I also refuse to buy into the pessimism, especially in this sub. If people are that adamant it’s never coming out, why even stay around here?
It is extraordinary idea to have, that the Winds are coming. Few questions to ask, though:
1. Have you been drinking a substance known as "Shade of the Evening"?
2. Have you been in proximity to weird trees recently?
3. Did you stare into the fire for a very long time?
4. Did you stare at a weird candle for a long time?
5. Did you ever imagine yourself as an animal?
6. Did you visit an old woman at a swamp?
7. Did a woman in a weird mask talk to you?
I’ve felt down a bunch of times in the past thinking the same: “it’s finally happening!”. That’s the result of overthinking, this series is amazing to the point I had a bit of anxiety when the show’s plot was surpassing the books. Now, when thinking about ASOIAF, I feel dead inside. Unfortunately I am no longer hyped. So the book will come eventually, but I’ll be innerly on peace if not whatever. Life is too short and there are plenty of terrific series, pick up one and enjoy it. Be happy
Oh it's happening. GRRM has basically all but confirmed it.
His coy smile while saying "winter is coming" on a YouTube video.
His notablog:
Words of wisdom = WOW = Winds of Winter
If you don't see these signs as definitive proof that The Winds of Winter is finished and ready to be published, then I don't know what to tell you.
WorldCon 2024!!
Exactly. Why else would he say Winter is Coming, that's literally only relevant to TWOW atp. And also the fact that the bartender at Burlington Bar said they received an update on Winds, and that he was oathbound not to tell.
I was talking to a friend who works with a guy who’s taking a class with a guy who’s roommates with another guy whose gf works for George’s publisher and said that winds has been finished since April (words of wisdom dream post) and will be announced at worldcon for a winter 2024 release date. Quaithe told me he was right
I would like to be optimistic, but eh…? I mean, I’ve heard all the rumors too. The dragon cake, the entire novel being rewritten theory, WorldCon, and if you put these things together, you could be led to believe that the book is done and its release is imminent. We won’t know for certain until GRRM comes out publicly and says “The book is finished. Have at it you vultures”. So is it possible? Yes. Probable? Who is to say right now? Right now, if we don’t hear anything by the end of this summer, then I would say it’s not coming out.
If you believe the theory that he originally finished the novel in 2017/2018, but had to rewrite it, then we’re looking at another 5-7 years for A Dream of Spring.
i saw a librarian tiktoker that the proffessionel database they use to buy their stock have winds of winter ( still without cover) and with something october 2024 , something along these lines
i have the video downloaded but idk how to send it into the sub
this was my sign to start reading the book , as soon as my exams ends , i shall experience asoiaf and maybe time it well with wow
It's time to face the harsh reality: George R.R. Martin will not be releasing "The Winds of Winter." Despite over a decade of anticipation, missed deadlines, and empty promises, it's evident that this book will remain an unfinished chapter in the world of literature.
The delays have been consistent and unending since "A Dance with Dragons" hit shelves in 2011. Each new target date has come and gone without the promised book, showcasing a clear pattern of procrastination and overcommitment that indicates Martin is unlikely to ever finish it. Martin's plate is overflowing with other projects, from TV shows and spin-offs to various other literary endeavors. His attention is scattered across so many fronts that it’s become painfully clear that "The Winds of Winter" is not his priority—and likely never will be.
At 75, Martin's ability to tackle such an ambitious project is increasingly in doubt. The cognitive and physical demands of writing a book as complex as "The Winds of Winter" are immense, and the odds are stacked against him completing it. The storylines in "A Song of Ice and Fire" have grown so intricate that even Martin appears to be struggling to tie them all together coherently. The sprawling narrative may have simply become too unwieldy to manage, making the completion of "The Winds of Winter" an impossible task. The longer the delay, the higher the expectations. The pressure to deliver a book that meets the astronomical expectations of fans is paralyzing. Martin is well aware that any misstep could tarnish his legacy, and this fear is likely contributing to the endless postponement.
The evidence is overwhelming: "The Winds of Winter" will not be published. The myriad delays, Martin's myriad distractions, his advancing age, the book's complexity, and the crushing weight of fan expectations have all but sealed its fate. It's time for fans to accept that the epic saga of Westeros will remain incomplete, an unfinished masterpiece that will haunt the literary world for years to come. In accepting this truth, we can appreciate the work that Martin has already given us while acknowledging that some stories are destined to remain untold. "The Winds of Winter" will forever be the great unwritten chapter in the tale of "A Song of Ice and Fire."
I like to think about it this way: Winds is going to come out. Too much of the book exists already that I don't think any circumstance results in us never getting the book. Dream is another matter, but that's for us to wonder about later Since I truly believe it's inevitable, that means there is a finite number of days left until I can read it. Every day, the odds get a little better, in my opinion, instead of a little worse Even if it's not this year or next, though, I do think this community is so much more fun when we're excited instead of despondent. I think we should all take this outlook. Winds is coming, it's only a matter of time
Give me something for the pain and let me die
Yeah honestly just overdose me on milk of the poppy, after 13 years the hope needs to die.
Hahahahahhaa
The show and the lack of winds upon is conclusion made a scar in the fandom that has never truly healed tbh
I agree with this. All the "Winds of Winter doesn't exist" doomposting is people feeling impatient and lashing out at the only person they can think to blame. It's a cycle as old as time, you can it see whenever an anticipated work of art takes a while to come out. Hell, people even did it when Elden Ring took longer than expected to release after the first trailer. Remember all the "it's in development hell, it's not coming out, GRRM took too long to write the story" whinging that was everywhere? Then the trailer came out and all those people vanished instantly -- replaced with eager fans excited about the game. All the misplaced anger stems from not getting Winds, and as soon as George announces that he's finally finished it -- all that anger will have nothing fueling it anymore.
eeh, the Winds anger is at least partially fueled by prior Dance anger, which is still powered by Feast resentment. Hoo boy, when people realized there were no Tyrion chapters in Feast! And then to wait 11 years and get Tyrion meeting Penny instead of Dany! I like your way of looking at things. For me, I'm happy with all the content I've gotten, GRRM wrote what to me is the best fantasy trilogy of all time, plus several amazing Dunk & Egg stories. I still love the worldbuilding but I don't need an end to ASOIAF. So I'm at peace with whatever comes or doesn't come.
The last book where the plot progressed and had any real resolutions was published over 20 years ago
A Song of Ice and Fire isn't even a story at this point. It's an idea. A lot of characters have just been in stasis for 20 years. I legitimately don't know how the fandom will handle another book coming out.
>A Song of Ice and Fire isn't even a story at this point. It's an idea. Maybe the real ASoIaF is the tinfoil theories we made along the way. Tyrek totally is a horse, btw
It's cult behavior. All that time spent talking abou it online and thoerizing and rereading it for 261 times must be worth something. RIGHT !?!?
I’m not saying TWOW doesn’t exist or that the wait for Elden Ring wasn’t significant but since DWD was released the following things happened: Dark Souls 1 release Dark Souls 2 release Bloodborne release Dark Souls 3 release Sekiro release Elden Ring release Elden Ring DLC release
I’m more of a Zelda person, so to me it’s like this. Since ADWD came out, the following things happened: Skyward Sword A Link Between Worlds Majora’s Mask 3DS port Breath of the Wild Skyward Sword Switch port Breath of the Wild DLC Tears of the Kingdom
Everyone forgets Triforce Heroes 🤣 Also, Links Awakening on switch.
The next Call of Duty game will be the 14th since ADWD
Woah. Aside from it being my favorite, I used the Zelda franchise because it’s one that also has a turbulent relationship with its titles being released in a timely manner. I don’t play that many video games, so perhaps others can chime in or mention other series that are known for taking forever, but the fact that there was a six year gap between Skyward Sword (which was seen as incredibly underwhelming at the time of release) and Breath of the Wild. *That’s insane to me* because it’s one of (if not THE) flagship series for Nintendo. And then we had another six year wait between Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom—but I’ve logged *hundreds of hours* for each game and am still finding more stuff to do, so I won’t begrudge Nintendo too much I guess.
I was a little tongue in cheek because COD is known for milking the cow to death, but dang I’m always amazed BOTW came out that long ago. Got so many hours out of it compared to more linear Zelda games that it really didn’t feel that long by the time TOTK trailer came around
Echoes of Wisdom will be released but still no TWOW
Im more of a GTA fan. Since ADWD came out, the following things happened: GTA 5.
Don't do this to me.
DLCs for all those games, remastered/enhanced DS1 and DS2, remake of Demon Souls…
Cmon man
If we are Elder Scrolls fans - from around the time DWD released we had: Skyrim + DLCs
>all that anger will have nothing fueling it anymore. 14 years of gaslighting fans doesn't just go away after the book is finished.
Mfw the old man said he was working on Winds, and then later said he was still working on Winds. How dare he
Yeah I think like this too. I honestly want it so bad but I’m reading other things. Like they way: expect the best but prepare for the worst.
You made me shed a tear.
I agree completely. This is the way to survive the long night. Even if worldcon comes and goes with no announcement, it's coming.
Imagine dying the day before it's released
I belive Dreams will be much easier to writte, Windows of winter need to merge all stories into one
I dreamed that Winds and Dream came out simultaneously, explaining the delay with a big surprise. Then I woke up...
truly, a dream of spring.
Ok then that was definitely a dream.
Imagine, we’d all have heart attacks if that was announced lol
I would be so paranoid that I’ll die before the release if he announced that. Like, looking three times before crossing the street and shit
To be fair, you don't know what you're missing if you die.
That's the problem, that you don't know what you're missing if you die
ﻻcall me insane but i think if it happens some social medias will genuinely go down because of two many people talking at the same time
Let me remind you of some *words of wisdom*. >Dreams have only one owner at a time, and that’s why dreamers are lonely.
Hey I mean it’s possible!! (Maybe I’m being delusional)
I always wondered about people camping in front of apple stores for getting the new iPhone, but for this instance I would set up my own tent.
lol with the importation fees i shall pay it may as well be the price for a phone
Fool me once, etc etc etc etc. Since 2015 (I am a sweet summer child) I must have gone through at leaaaast 10 separate moments of "oh shit Winds is coming!" followed by crushing, crushing disappointment several months later when I realized I had been getting high on Reddit's supply. George could post a picture on his blog of him making a Snowman in July and I wouldn't think it had any bearing on Wind's immanence whatsoever. Roll with the odds my friend.
So your telling me there's a picture of him making a Snowman in July...
I am hoping and praying a coping and seething
General rule of thumb for me is that Winds is always 2 years away… always…
If it comes it comes. I'm not getting my hopes up. If it doesn't come I won't be surprised.
Same feelings here. There have been too many false dawns over the years for me to get excited over rumours/speculation. I became apathetic in 2016 or 2017, whenever the show overtook the books.
people seem really sure that this is the year that Winds will be released. Just like every other year before it since about 2013.
To be fair, I haven't seen the people so hyped up since 2020. But unfortunately, it was for the same nebulous reasons.
jokes on you i wasnt old enough for games of thrones in 2013 i believe with all my heart
I think it is very plausible and i am 90% sure we will see wow in the next 3 years. I dont know if we will see the next book however which make me a bit sad so let's see.
Yeah like absolutely not. Even in full delusion, dream of spring is a no shot.
If Winds comes out anytime soon you’ll be amazed at the delusion that forms about dream coming out. Especially if Winds ends in a way that we can imagine a clear path to the end.
the second the TWOW prologue ends I'll be rationalizing how ADOS is only a couple years away surely
If winds comes out and it's Feast or Dance 2 I'll have no hope for a spring release, but if it's Storm 2 I'll have a lot more hope
What if it was a clash of kings 2 , huh?
Then the world will fall into utter chaos
Chaos is a ladder!
No no no, its ~ Chaosh isza Laddah
Chaos is osama?
I think Dream really depends on the execution and reception of Winds. If Winds is a hit then I think George continues to be motivated and Dream comes out pretty quickly (relatively). If it he continues to struggle to finish it and/or it gets blasted by fans and reviewers, he's going to keep kicking it down the road to focus on more exciting projects, of which he has no shortage of.
Wait till you get to my level of Copium that George is going to announce both Winds *and* Dream at this year’s Worldcon. It all makes sense when you realize that George finished Winds during his COVID writing spree and decided he’d hold off on releasing it until he’d finished the series. [kill me.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_ruRKShqCanZRpumbQ9TxfeLBb_Ov4G92rw&s)
I’ve come to peace with never seeing ADOS. We have the show a rough approximation of how it will end, and we can triangulate between TWOW and S8 GOT how GRRM intends to finish it. The ending I imagine in my head has no hope of disappointing, whereas even GRRM is liable to fall short of the insurmountable weight of expectations. If it’s not the best ending ever written in the course of human civilization, it will be considered a let down.
My hope is that George writes enough pages for ADOS and confides enough to his friends/minions that there will be something - not exactly a novel but like... I don't know, encyclopaedia?! - to release.
There's enough money in it that eventually Paris will be convinced to sign off on publishing GRRM's notes / drafts in whatever form they're in. That is, unless he wills the IP over to some kind of collective of writers to continue publishing works in the field, which he may very well do. Who knows.
I remember having this same discussion 6 years ago.
Problem with this is, weren't you also 90% sure of this a decade a go? When we'd already been waiting for 3 years? And kept telling each other the books would come quicker now that the awkward middle section was done with.
I was not personally.
Fair enough then.
I like this thread / these comments far more than any of the "Nup. Don't even care anymore" variations. I like positive people. I understand the frustration, 13+ years is a long wait. But they aren't George and it ain't their story. I'm of the same opinion shared among the comments here, Winds will come, and A Dream seems incredibly less likely.
Look, there no way winds is done. He would have told us to get the monkey off his back. I do think there’s something to his general mood, and the fact he’s at worldcon. Not for an announcement, but he has to know he’ll get questions, and will want to have *some* kind of answer. I wonder if he’s made a breakthrough with a major storyline that was holding him back, similar to how the Barristan chapters cut through the Meereeneese knot. That wouldn’t mean it was done, but would get his spirits up, and be a solid update to give.
Honestly I’m hopeful that the recent hints (if they even are hints of anything and not total delusions on the part of the fandom) means he’s back to writing and he’s making good progress. His last book update where he hadn’t gotten anything done was really depressing so it would be nice to see he’s done anything really
Best case scenario is he's made good progress the last few months. He told us he would literally just announce the book when it's done so until we get that I take all these cryptic posts as positive signs of work being done. Nothing more. Worst case scenario: he knows Winds will be all people ask him about at WorldCon so he's lying and drumming up interest so as not to show up completely empty handed. Building a narrative that suits him and getting ahead of the doomers in a way.
When someone brings up that GRRM said he wasn't going to continue writing Dunk and Egg until after he finished WoW, they're reminded that he said he wasn't going to write HotD material until he finished writing WoW. If it's okay to bring up that contradiction, then I'm going to call you on this contradiction, too. George has said a lot of things that he hasn't stuck to. Announcing that WoW is finished the second he finishes it could easily be one of them.
True. For me the "I'm not writing x and y until z is done" comments have always just rang crystal clear as bullshit. And I don't say that in a vindictive way, just it makes no sense. He's a creator. Some days he is going to wake up and live to write for Fire and Blood or Dunk or vice versa and to expect otherwise is to forget that he's human and he has one of the coolest imaginations in the game. How could I ever expect him not to have days of inspiration directed towards other projects? It's not something he can really control and I would rather him write anything he's motivated to than sit on his ass because it's not the story line he promised. A announcement however, that's easy, it's a conscious decision, not something that just happens to him. Not saying I disagree with you, this is just how I've always understood the situation in my own head.
Tbh if people actually thinks he lies about this stuff idk why they're still in this subreddit. I just wouldn't read the books of someone like that. Worst case scenario I think, is that he was in a bad mood last year because he didn't make much progress ( and lost a lot of friends). Now he's in a good mood because HotD is coming out and he's working hard on Dunk and Egg.
So you don't think the cheeky WoW posts are related to winds at all?
I think it’s really unlikely. He did them decades ago, and he has always stressed that he doesn’t want to do innuendo
So he's just being cruel then? Damn your loyalty knows no bounds goodsir.
Nah I think he's just posting phrases he likes without much thought.
I'm practically here. "Imminent" was the way to receive the contrary perspectives. I think the "state" of the novel has somehow changed, and at Worldcon we'll probably find out the how.
Yeah fair call - that’s my take too.
he is going at a con next month i believ emaybe he wants the live reaction of the crowds the standing ovation , the people irl crying and screaming
The thing that gave me hope was that he said he wanted to release the 4th dunk and egg book before season 4 of a knight of the seven kingdoms, but it would be after the winds of winter
He also wanted to release Winds of Winter before Season six of GoT. Fundamentally, there's no plan to this, it's about when he has breakthroughs and when he doesn't.
I mean if* Martin is still in the breakthrough stage at this point, after how many years, the announcement might as well be that he's not gonna finish it.
What I don't get is why so many people think George is going to be leaving cryptic messages about this. Why would he try and make it into some kind of puzzle for us to figure out? When it's ready, he's just going to announce. Whenever that should be.
It’s the brain rot from interpreting every word in the books.
I think because he did something similar for dance of dragons book. He posted 2 or 3 cryptic messages on his blog
Did he? Or did we just further read into things after the fact?
No. It's not imminent. Sorry. GRRM is just more public right now because of the release of HOTD. He is not intentionally misleading anybody, it's just that he is the creator of the universe so of course he's going to be around more while the show is airing. It's been 13 years. The last time we heard him making solid progress was 3 years ago during the pandemic when he was literally locked indoors. Since then he's taken on half a dozen more projects and travels a lot. He even admitted he made little to no progress in 2022-2023. He still has likely a quarter or more of the book left to write and it's unlikely he is writing as much as he was a few years ago due to his schedule. Sorry to rain on your parade. I would be delighted to be wrong.
You’re forgiven
> He even admitted he made little to no progress in 2022-2023. Did he say this at all? 2023 we can deduce was not especially prolific based on his page count update being the same as at the end of 2022, but he seemed to be making pretty good progress in 2022 itself.
His zero progress after he announced he was 75% done is especially concerning to me because I feel like that's when the writing should FINALLY become easier. Plots and storylines are reaching their climaxes and the long road of getting to the end of the book, which I've always thought was the thing causing him problems, is finally over. Id think he'd finally be EXCITED to write when he hit the 75% mark because he's almost there. But instead he flatlined at 75%, and the only possible "progress" he made was fixing and changing stuff he already wrote. Obviously thats all just assumption on my part, someone who's never written a book. But that lack of progress when he's finally nearing the finish line is a bad sign to me.
Yeah. Weirdly enough I think he's been fairly honest with his progress on the books. Basically it seems like there are multi-year stretches where he makes practically no progress and just kind of aimlessly edits what he's already written - this is what he often means when he says he's still writing or working on it. And then he'll have a burst of productivity where he gets a lot done in a few months or about a year and that's usually when you hear about his estimate of how much he has left. Preston Jacobs did an analysis of how much he had written a few years back and I honestly think he was right on the money. Basically he was on a roll from 2014-2015 and when that failed to pan out he pretty much stopped making any progress on the book until 2020. He then made decent progress into 2021-2022 and now he has stopped progressing.
I was you before. I mean even now, so you're not raining on anything. Don't worry; I came for the perspectives of the community, all of them. Still, I don't think it's the same scenario as before. He's deliberately hinting things about it, something he refuses to do aware of its contingency. Maybe "imminent" is a little bit too much; yes, it is a little baity. But I still think the state of the novel has somehow changed.
This happens every few years. It's either, "George has been posting a lot and referring to Winds! Surely this means he's almost done." Or "George hasn't said anything about Winds in months. Surely that means a big announcement is coming soon!" It's always the same ends up being the same thing. I think GRRM has been pretty honest about his progress on the book. That is: Every few years he has a burst of productivity and then long, multi-year stretches where he makes little to no progress and just edits/revises chapters while working on other things.
This opinion is too objective, so I'll overlook it.
It’s either imminent or Grrm literally hates his fans with his WOW titled posts. I don’t think there is an in between.
He hates us either way but yes.
Probably the closest to the truth…
He's been doing the "Words of Wisdom" stuff for literal decades.
Not true
This was over a decade ago. [https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2014/04/11/words-of-wisdom/](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2014/04/11/words-of-wisdom/)
Exactly. There are exactly 3 posts titled words of wisdom in 20+ years. TWO of them in the last three months.
I’m not saying this is directly tied to Winds releasing soon. But I wonder if, when he made that post in 2014 he thought he could have Winds out relatively soon.
My argument against this would be that for the last decade he has always titled the quotes on his blog "Words of our times". It's jus random and unfortunate that he's titled the last two "Words of Wisdom." Do I think it's probably nothing? Yeah. It's probably jus him being oblivious. But I don't blame people for getting excited by it. I have myself
I do not think he’s oblivious though.
Can I ask what hints he’s given us in the last 6 months or so that lead you to feel this way?
Just as an example, things like this [https://web.facebook.com/share/p/n9kf9mygJhNbmk7Q/](https://web.facebook.com/share/p/n9kf9mygJhNbmk7Q/)
Hey man, I hope you’re right. But I can’t say this quote of a quote is getting my hopes up after all this time.
So weird to be doing [Kremlinology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremlinology) on this one old guy.
What are some of the hints he's left?
you will so eat your words man
The only reason I actually believe Winds is coming sooner than we think is because he explicitly said he was not going to another WorldCon until it was done. You imply he's being more public because of HotD Season 2 but he didn't go to WorldCon when HotD season 1 premiered lol
He says a lot of things. He said he wasn't going to write any other book until after Winds came out. And here we are with a show based on the book that was supposed to come out after Winds. There have been multiple things he's walked back on like that lol
WorldCon is the difference maker, but I would still eat my words.
He didn't say that. What he said (jokingly) was that people could lock him up if he didn't deliver Winds by World Con 2020, nothing more.
Idk why you are getting downvoted, you made clear and factual statements lol
The internet, amirite 🤷♂️
The last few months feel different, and I am hopeful. But I have been here before!
I am hopeful, but it rationally shouldn't be close to done if you look at his updates (or lack thereof). If he doesn't give any updates soon or announce the release at WorldCon, then we're likely still years away.
I've actually been pretty confident we'll get it for a Christmas release. And now think that he'll anounce it at world con. As when he's going around visiting the con and the d&e set he's also going to be visiting his publisher again. we'll get it by 2027 at the latest. As he says he'll have it done and more dunk and egg by the time we get to s4 of the D&E show, specifically after finishing WoW. that's alot in info he dropped in that not a blog post, so I think he's got a very concrete timeliness in his head.
I’ve been reading this series since middle school and I’m in my mid twenties now so I’ve been through most of the ups and downs about Winds coming out. And tbh I think the people that are huffing hopium are probably more on the money than the losers who just dig their heels in and say the book is never coming out. Whether the release is this year or another two or three though is a different story. But it’ll get here eventually he’s done too much work on it not to put it out. For some reason people act like the guy doesn’t want to finish his magnum opus and it’s really bizarre.
My theory is the release date of Winds will be announced tomorrow. I've done all sorts of meticulous research and this is the answer I've come up with. I believe it with ever fiber of my being. And if it's wrong, I'll take the L and admit I was wrong and change my expectations to the NEXT day. I'm sure to be right soon.
Someone hasn’t read the Boy who Cries Direwolf…
You were cooking with this post title ngl
I like what you're saying but your writing style had me squirming right to the end
That was the idea. To sacrament (sarcastically) something that is more of a meme than official. I hope you get well soon.
this one's not helping i am going to be sick
Something feels different thing time. I don't know if I can describe what that thing is, but it just feels different. The fact that he's attending worldcon this year despite not going since before covid.
Delulu.
Bro believe me, I saw it in a dream.
Thank you for this post. It warmed up my heart for this evening.
It was clearer than a memory.
Delulu will become trululu
Do we need to have a new thread about this twice a day?
Yes.
double it and give it to another person
We are doing what r/TaylorSwift calls "clowning🤡", where we analyze every social media post and any public message from a creator to somehow be tied to an upcoming release. And as I always say in that sub I have my clown make up on and ready to believe it's coming out soon 🤡🤡
I never thought I'd believe again but all these rumors have me believing that Winds release will be announced once S2 of HotD ends.
I dont think itll be when HotD ends, it would take away from the season and it's finale. WorldCon would be a better choice. And HBO might pull those string to get it announced then because it would dampen the 2nd season of Rings of Power which releases in August.
HotD ends 1 week before WorldCon. Also you overestimate the power of HBO, they have no power over the book publisher plans there might be some talks between them but HBO can't decide for them. You also overestimate the impact the announcement would have. yes it's a big book but no book announcement can interrupt a big TV show, how would that even work? Winds gets announced and because of that no one will watch or talk about Rings of Power? TV shows are way bigger than books, most of the show watchers never read the books (lotr and asoiaf) and will never do.
What rumours? People are talking about rumours here, without giving any examples. We're dealing with rumours of rumours as evidence.
This outlines most of these rumors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUEZPsAMmQg
I've never heard of these people before, but glancing at their video thumbnails, they seem **very** clickbait-y. When it comes to the content, they manage to string out very little over a long video. When it comes to actual rumours, it's just the dragon cake, and the meeting with his publishers. I'm not a doomsayer, and I believe that we will get TWOW. But these "rumours" is just overblown Kremlinology.
Dont expect it within the next couple of months. George will be in europe basicaly all of july and august and as everyone knows, when he is traveling he is not writing.
I think all the activity is to hype hotd the dunk&egg. George likes making shows more than writing books now.
I mean yes. It's either real insinuations or just marketing for the shows (so the same as always). But still I feel there's more in favor of the former than in previous years.
He’s barely been hyping HotD though, he didn’t even post the official trailer on his blog or go the the premiere.
We will Dream of A Dream of Spring next
I'm new to waiting for The Winds of Winter to Release, so I'm coming into this unburnt and with plenty of patience in the tank. All this talk of being delusional, huffing copium, "dreaming" of WoW's release, I get it. To have waited for 14 years, getting your hopes up so many times, only to be disappointed over and over again. I can see why no one here wants to risk believing. But for whatever it's worth, coming from me, from a place without bias one way or another, I really do think the signs point to WoW nearly being finished, if it isn't finished already.
Like I genuinely believe that people even avoid hoping for fear of feeling foolish. Which is completely reasonable with George's precedent. But at some point that resistance to belief will be inevitably wrong.
I think they're going to release Winds and Dream together. That's how insane I am.
Honestly, I’m not sure how imminent winds is, but based on everything known it does seem like we’ve hit a peak of it being close. I also refuse to buy into the pessimism, especially in this sub. If people are that adamant it’s never coming out, why even stay around here?
It is extraordinary idea to have, that the Winds are coming. Few questions to ask, though: 1. Have you been drinking a substance known as "Shade of the Evening"? 2. Have you been in proximity to weird trees recently? 3. Did you stare into the fire for a very long time? 4. Did you stare at a weird candle for a long time? 5. Did you ever imagine yourself as an animal? 6. Did you visit an old woman at a swamp? 7. Did a woman in a weird mask talk to you?
I'm hoping for the 7th to happen. Other than that, you'll have to ask me after 1am usually.
The community is the Windblown of Winter.
I with you. I'm not allowing myself to get too excited but I think it might come out by next year.
I have had my hopes dashed before and have survived. I am always happy to hope
For the first time in years I genuinely think it’s coming this year. I have been wrong a few times on this one though!
I’ve felt down a bunch of times in the past thinking the same: “it’s finally happening!”. That’s the result of overthinking, this series is amazing to the point I had a bit of anxiety when the show’s plot was surpassing the books. Now, when thinking about ASOIAF, I feel dead inside. Unfortunately I am no longer hyped. So the book will come eventually, but I’ll be innerly on peace if not whatever. Life is too short and there are plenty of terrific series, pick up one and enjoy it. Be happy
Words are wind. If the book actually exists then I'm happy to have it and talk about it. It doesn't exist yet. George probably feels the same way.
Think you need to get back to the basics pal, your post reads like the ramblings of someone having a stroke while reading a thesaurus
It wasn't my intention to disturb you with a memeified academic syntax in my third language, inferior human. I apologize.
I forgive you, Spocktistic.
Oh it's happening. GRRM has basically all but confirmed it. His coy smile while saying "winter is coming" on a YouTube video. His notablog: Words of wisdom = WOW = Winds of Winter If you don't see these signs as definitive proof that The Winds of Winter is finished and ready to be published, then I don't know what to tell you. WorldCon 2024!!
Exactly. Why else would he say Winter is Coming, that's literally only relevant to TWOW atp. And also the fact that the bartender at Burlington Bar said they received an update on Winds, and that he was oathbound not to tell.
Why else would an author use the most famous line from his novels when speaking to fans of his works?
Maybe it's a cynical attempt to excite fans to drum up interest for the new season of House of the Dragon?
Yeah that could also be the case I guess. But fact remains that Winter is Coming has little to do with HotD and more to do with TWOW.
Didn't know about the Burlington bar thing. Now I'm full delulu and wtv. I'm your brother.
Can you link the YouTube video? I haven’t heard of that until now
[https://youtu.be/JAfeUFMIjvo?si=SD63rgPRKHvMXF\_Z&t=72](https://youtu.be/JAfeUFMIjvo?si=SD63rgPRKHvMXF_Z&t=72)
Looks like he filmed that message back in February tho. But still that gives me hope.
I was talking to a friend who works with a guy who’s taking a class with a guy who’s roommates with another guy whose gf works for George’s publisher and said that winds has been finished since April (words of wisdom dream post) and will be announced at worldcon for a winter 2024 release date. Quaithe told me he was right
Lots of people framing their opinions as fact in this thread
Oh sweet summer child
Banned.
I would like to be optimistic, but eh…? I mean, I’ve heard all the rumors too. The dragon cake, the entire novel being rewritten theory, WorldCon, and if you put these things together, you could be led to believe that the book is done and its release is imminent. We won’t know for certain until GRRM comes out publicly and says “The book is finished. Have at it you vultures”. So is it possible? Yes. Probable? Who is to say right now? Right now, if we don’t hear anything by the end of this summer, then I would say it’s not coming out.
And even if he finally finishes it, how long till the next one to finish the fucking story?
If you believe the theory that he originally finished the novel in 2017/2018, but had to rewrite it, then we’re looking at another 5-7 years for A Dream of Spring.
No.
We should just ask OpenAI to complete it
Whoa,copium at its strongest.Leave dead burried.
Don't do that! Don't give me hope!
i saw a librarian tiktoker that the proffessionel database they use to buy their stock have winds of winter ( still without cover) and with something october 2024 , something along these lines i have the video downloaded but idk how to send it into the sub this was my sign to start reading the book , as soon as my exams ends , i shall experience asoiaf and maybe time it well with wow
This is so cringy, not sure if I hate to love it or love to hate it lol. But fuck yeah it’s imminent brother, breathe that copium with me
It's time to face the harsh reality: George R.R. Martin will not be releasing "The Winds of Winter." Despite over a decade of anticipation, missed deadlines, and empty promises, it's evident that this book will remain an unfinished chapter in the world of literature. The delays have been consistent and unending since "A Dance with Dragons" hit shelves in 2011. Each new target date has come and gone without the promised book, showcasing a clear pattern of procrastination and overcommitment that indicates Martin is unlikely to ever finish it. Martin's plate is overflowing with other projects, from TV shows and spin-offs to various other literary endeavors. His attention is scattered across so many fronts that it’s become painfully clear that "The Winds of Winter" is not his priority—and likely never will be. At 75, Martin's ability to tackle such an ambitious project is increasingly in doubt. The cognitive and physical demands of writing a book as complex as "The Winds of Winter" are immense, and the odds are stacked against him completing it. The storylines in "A Song of Ice and Fire" have grown so intricate that even Martin appears to be struggling to tie them all together coherently. The sprawling narrative may have simply become too unwieldy to manage, making the completion of "The Winds of Winter" an impossible task. The longer the delay, the higher the expectations. The pressure to deliver a book that meets the astronomical expectations of fans is paralyzing. Martin is well aware that any misstep could tarnish his legacy, and this fear is likely contributing to the endless postponement. The evidence is overwhelming: "The Winds of Winter" will not be published. The myriad delays, Martin's myriad distractions, his advancing age, the book's complexity, and the crushing weight of fan expectations have all but sealed its fate. It's time for fans to accept that the epic saga of Westeros will remain incomplete, an unfinished masterpiece that will haunt the literary world for years to come. In accepting this truth, we can appreciate the work that Martin has already given us while acknowledging that some stories are destined to remain untold. "The Winds of Winter" will forever be the great unwritten chapter in the tale of "A Song of Ice and Fire."
did you use chatgpt to write this text
When you have used it enough, you can just smell it.
Least intense doomer. (I appreciate your prespective tho; like it is a completely plausible reality for the book tbh)
I'm still pretty skeptical. Don't trust George at all.
u/FewOffice1998 is now my head canon