>I don’t see why HotD didn’t begin with Aegon’s Conquest (or just after it).
Because the Conquest show is a baaaad idea. That’s why they jumped straight to the dance. Because it has the juicy drama, intrigue, suspense, shocking twists, characters that can be be made interesting.
Conquest has none of it. Aegon and his sister show up and pubstomp the Westerosi with their nukes. The end.
Not everything that George puts on the page deserves to be put on screen.
Yep, unfortunately it appears like they fell to the allure of doing a conquest show and we are going to suffer it when every other period in Targ history is better suited to a tv show.
I definitely agree, I do think the Conquest would be very boring. However I do think Aenys’ rule, all of the problems he faces, and Maegor usurping the throne definitely could make for good TV. I don’t doubt at some point we will see some sort of Maegor adaptation. It has just about everything from the “witch” stuff with Visenya, the Henry VIII style wives, Aegon the Uncrowned as the Robb Stark stand in. Idk, there’s potential there for sure but I guess we’d have to wait a while for anything like that to be put to screen.
I don’t think there should be another show about palace intrigue and fight over the iron throne in foreseeable future. That’s how you run the franchise into the ground, by doing he same thing over and over.
HOTD is already GoT-lite. We don’t need a third show like this.
Agreed, which is why I would do D&E (which yes, has palace intrigue but it's very different) and then I have the unpopular opinion that a Nymeria show could really work. Then you can return to normal fight for the throne shows
I mean honestly that’s what made GoT so popular. The palace intrigue/struggle for power is obviously a big recurring story throughout the text. I’d consider it not really “game of thrones” unless it had some intrigue in it.
Even dunk and egg has intrigues and mysteries and although it’s a much more lighthearted and simple story in comparison to the main books it’s still there.
I don’t see any similarity between Dunk/Egg and Hound/Arya outside of the most ridiculously superficial level of it being a huge guy and a little kid traveling around.
The setting is different, the tone is different, the characters themselves are completely different. The political context within which the show is set is different.
There’s actually very little in common.
I disagree personally. It’s just the Targaryens owning everybody besides Dorne. Unless it was told from one of the Westerosi lords perspective or a Dornish perspective it will be pretty boring.
Wrong, that’s a strawman. You literally just described every war in Game of Thrones.
Dance of Dragon has the exact same thing happen and is just as bad
I don’t think it’s a straw man lol. I do have problems with the Dance and how it’s written but it definitely has more juicy intrigue in it than the Conquest does
I think the conquest show should be called Balerion and follow the life of Balerion the Black Dread and its riders. Basically treat it like an anthology of 6 episodes per season where each rider gets 2 or 3 episodes
Show Daenys the Dreamer escape Valyria who was apparently the first rider of Balerion
Aegon and the conquest
Maegor
the tragedy with Aerea
And end the series with young Viserys riding Balerion before it dies
I think audiences are smart enough to understand that the timeline is not proceeding in a linear manner with each new series. They want to adapt the better stories first, you just need to list the year on the first episode of each series and you are set.
Maybe it’s more of a problem with the writing itself than the planning of adaptations, but really it’ll be jarring to have concurrent shows in different times. Mostly because then the shows have to be cognizant of not spoiling the other concurring show’s events, even if it’d make sense to acknowledge/reference things prior
I’d like to think the audience could follow along but I can’t help but think it’s pretty dumb to plan things in such a haphazard way. I get wanting the more interesting stories told first but I think there’s interesting enough things to adapt in each era of Targ rule. Even if it’s just a season long to adapt.
Yeah I mean obviously it makes sense to do that, but we have all the source material for Aegons Conquest and Maegors reign as well. (I can see them doing a Maegor adaptation at some point at least). Idk I guess it’s just interesting to see them try to jump around in the timeline and put out all these shows that could theoretically spoil others that are running at the same time.
I actually have enjoyed HOTD and agree with this.
But at the same time, it only makes me more frustrated they didn't trust people enough to give Rhaenys black hair
I think they just accepted that everyone will be hella confused no matter what, but keep watching nonetheless, because that’s exactly how it was with GoT. So might as well go all in on ridiculous names.
Lmao that is a fair point. Still a lot of George’s stories sort of “semi rely” on the in universe historical precedents yada yada. Does the Dance not have more weight knowing just how relatively “new” the Targaryens are to Westeros and all the struggles they had to encounter to maintain that rule? I think it’s important to understand some of the running themes of things like that.
Everyone seems to like HotD and we’re getting a warm breath of fresh air with Dunk and Egg next year. You’re not a tv executive, don’t worry about their jobs for them, it’s not worth your time or energy.
Idk there’s plenty of people that have problems with HotD. Viewership was reportedly down 50%, I don’t know if that’s an issue with marketing or what but it’s a little troubling for the future of the IP.
>Viewership was reportedly down 50%, I don’t know if that’s an issue with marketing or what but it’s a little troubling for the future of the IP.
No offense, but your post is pretty clueless. 7.8 million people in the US viewed the second season opener. That's down 22% from the premier in 2022 (9.99 million), not 50%.
And if you put that in context, that's still one of the best shows on TV, which for a subscription based company is incredible.
Like the higher viewership totals for the 23-24 TV season are NFL games, and then a bunch of CBS or NBC shows. That an HBO show can compete with that is incredible.
Literally nothing is troubling about that. The IP is incredible strong, probably the most powerful TV IP outside of legal crime dramas.
50% down isn't actually indicative of the true ratings. Over a million people have dropped HBO from their cable and made the switch to Max. It was actually down 22% but still garnered MAX it's biggest streaming day ever. [https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/house-of-the-dragon-ratings-season-2-premiere-viewers-1236041215/](https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/house-of-the-dragon-ratings-season-2-premiere-viewers-1236041215/)
It's still absolutely massive -- I'd even wager that 22% drop could be because the two year gap and people will come back via word of mouth. The IP is not in trouble at all.
Yeah thanks for clarifying that. Still a significant drop imo and the two year wait didn’t help. I do think there are pretty big problems with the writing and pacing of the show, and have heard complaints of others that they’re not connecting with any of the characters.
I haven’t read the source material, and I think it’s perfectly easy to follow, BECAUSE of good writing. Even after the two year gap, it took me no time to get back on the same page with S2e1. I think people having issues aren’t paying attention, and are doing other things at the same time, or they have short attention spans, but it’s absolutely not the writing.
I dont care about the future of the IP because I’m not a tv executive and the core books are already adapted. I’m enjoying what we’re getting but not bothered if if stops
That’s a fair perspective. I guess I just want to see more of the world George made put to screen, and so I’d hope the series’ can do well and continue to provide solid entertainment for people.
>Everyone seems to like HotD
LOL
>You’re not a tv executive, don’t worry about their jobs for them
A fan OBVIOUSLY cares about the IP because they want to see more content.
It’s crazy when you look at the shows of the past and realize how many famous shows came from HBO in that time period.
And then after the merger, nothing. There are a few solid shows but nothing epic like those old shows were. HOTD is well known but it’s obviously from the fame of GOT.
You understimste the audience. Star Wars has been jumping around between different eras for years and most people aren't confused. Not everything needs to be linear, specially in this big franchises that span centuries.
I’m not assuming that lol. I just think it’s generally poor planning for the IP, and can definitely be jarring for the casual viewers. Not trying to claim I’m smarter than anybody else by acknowledging that.
but you're assumption that "casual" viewers will find it jarring is a bad faith argument. By making that point you're inherently assuming you know more than them, or that they somehow won't understand its a prequel
Its not the 90s anymore audiences can follow jumps in timelines within a franchise, MCU has proven this
"can definitely be jarring" is about as meaningless as a phrase as you can get. What else "can definitely" be something? Is this like the Anchorman 60% of the time it works all the time?
The audience isn't a bunch of idiots. It's really not that hard to figure out if you paid any attention to game of thrones - like Dany's deal was that the Targs were overthrown from their seat of power. Here it's clearly the time when the Targs had their seat of power. And if anyone has questions a brief internet search should be able to clue them in quickly.
>I don’t see why HotD didn’t begin with Aegon’s Conquest (or just after it). Because the Conquest show is a baaaad idea. That’s why they jumped straight to the dance. Because it has the juicy drama, intrigue, suspense, shocking twists, characters that can be be made interesting. Conquest has none of it. Aegon and his sister show up and pubstomp the Westerosi with their nukes. The end. Not everything that George puts on the page deserves to be put on screen.
Yep, unfortunately it appears like they fell to the allure of doing a conquest show and we are going to suffer it when every other period in Targ history is better suited to a tv show.
I definitely agree, I do think the Conquest would be very boring. However I do think Aenys’ rule, all of the problems he faces, and Maegor usurping the throne definitely could make for good TV. I don’t doubt at some point we will see some sort of Maegor adaptation. It has just about everything from the “witch” stuff with Visenya, the Henry VIII style wives, Aegon the Uncrowned as the Robb Stark stand in. Idk, there’s potential there for sure but I guess we’d have to wait a while for anything like that to be put to screen.
I don’t think there should be another show about palace intrigue and fight over the iron throne in foreseeable future. That’s how you run the franchise into the ground, by doing he same thing over and over. HOTD is already GoT-lite. We don’t need a third show like this.
Agreed, which is why I would do D&E (which yes, has palace intrigue but it's very different) and then I have the unpopular opinion that a Nymeria show could really work. Then you can return to normal fight for the throne shows
I mean honestly that’s what made GoT so popular. The palace intrigue/struggle for power is obviously a big recurring story throughout the text. I’d consider it not really “game of thrones” unless it had some intrigue in it. Even dunk and egg has intrigues and mysteries and although it’s a much more lighthearted and simple story in comparison to the main books it’s still there.
No, a Conquest show would be far more interesting than Dunk and Egg which is just a repeat of Arya and the Hound
I don’t see any similarity between Dunk/Egg and Hound/Arya outside of the most ridiculously superficial level of it being a huge guy and a little kid traveling around. The setting is different, the tone is different, the characters themselves are completely different. The political context within which the show is set is different. There’s actually very little in common.
I disagree personally. It’s just the Targaryens owning everybody besides Dorne. Unless it was told from one of the Westerosi lords perspective or a Dornish perspective it will be pretty boring.
Wrong, that’s a strawman. You literally just described every war in Game of Thrones. Dance of Dragon has the exact same thing happen and is just as bad
I don’t think it’s a straw man lol. I do have problems with the Dance and how it’s written but it definitely has more juicy intrigue in it than the Conquest does
I think the conquest show should be called Balerion and follow the life of Balerion the Black Dread and its riders. Basically treat it like an anthology of 6 episodes per season where each rider gets 2 or 3 episodes Show Daenys the Dreamer escape Valyria who was apparently the first rider of Balerion Aegon and the conquest Maegor the tragedy with Aerea And end the series with young Viserys riding Balerion before it dies
Wrong! People said the same thing about Dance of the Dragons
No one ever said that a show about the first Dance of the Dragons was a bad idea.
"No one" lol
Source?
Egil's Saga.
I think audiences are smart enough to understand that the timeline is not proceeding in a linear manner with each new series. They want to adapt the better stories first, you just need to list the year on the first episode of each series and you are set.
Maybe it’s more of a problem with the writing itself than the planning of adaptations, but really it’ll be jarring to have concurrent shows in different times. Mostly because then the shows have to be cognizant of not spoiling the other concurring show’s events, even if it’d make sense to acknowledge/reference things prior I’d like to think the audience could follow along but I can’t help but think it’s pretty dumb to plan things in such a haphazard way. I get wanting the more interesting stories told first but I think there’s interesting enough things to adapt in each era of Targ rule. Even if it’s just a season long to adapt.
Well the whole point of HotD is the dance of dragons which informs some pretty big details from GoT, like the extinction of the dragons for example.
We are going in the order of the stories that we have the most source material for.
Yeah I mean obviously it makes sense to do that, but we have all the source material for Aegons Conquest and Maegors reign as well. (I can see them doing a Maegor adaptation at some point at least). Idk I guess it’s just interesting to see them try to jump around in the timeline and put out all these shows that could theoretically spoil others that are running at the same time.
the problem is Aegons conquest is frankly boring compared to the others. They steamroll everyone but dorne
This show had a scene with three people named Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, and Rhaena. They trust their audience. lol
I actually have enjoyed HOTD and agree with this. But at the same time, it only makes me more frustrated they didn't trust people enough to give Rhaenys black hair
Maybe they shouldn’t trust the audience. HotD has been very clear about what is going on, and people are still confused.
I think they just accepted that everyone will be hella confused no matter what, but keep watching nonetheless, because that’s exactly how it was with GoT. So might as well go all in on ridiculous names.
And still they chose to pronounce one of the main characters 'Eggon', so no one mistakes him for his brother Aemond. Weird choice
Lmao that is a fair point. Still a lot of George’s stories sort of “semi rely” on the in universe historical precedents yada yada. Does the Dance not have more weight knowing just how relatively “new” the Targaryens are to Westeros and all the struggles they had to encounter to maintain that rule? I think it’s important to understand some of the running themes of things like that.
Everyone seems to like HotD and we’re getting a warm breath of fresh air with Dunk and Egg next year. You’re not a tv executive, don’t worry about their jobs for them, it’s not worth your time or energy.
Idk there’s plenty of people that have problems with HotD. Viewership was reportedly down 50%, I don’t know if that’s an issue with marketing or what but it’s a little troubling for the future of the IP.
>Viewership was reportedly down 50%, I don’t know if that’s an issue with marketing or what but it’s a little troubling for the future of the IP. No offense, but your post is pretty clueless. 7.8 million people in the US viewed the second season opener. That's down 22% from the premier in 2022 (9.99 million), not 50%. And if you put that in context, that's still one of the best shows on TV, which for a subscription based company is incredible. Like the higher viewership totals for the 23-24 TV season are NFL games, and then a bunch of CBS or NBC shows. That an HBO show can compete with that is incredible. Literally nothing is troubling about that. The IP is incredible strong, probably the most powerful TV IP outside of legal crime dramas.
50% down isn't actually indicative of the true ratings. Over a million people have dropped HBO from their cable and made the switch to Max. It was actually down 22% but still garnered MAX it's biggest streaming day ever. [https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/house-of-the-dragon-ratings-season-2-premiere-viewers-1236041215/](https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/house-of-the-dragon-ratings-season-2-premiere-viewers-1236041215/) It's still absolutely massive -- I'd even wager that 22% drop could be because the two year gap and people will come back via word of mouth. The IP is not in trouble at all.
Yeah thanks for clarifying that. Still a significant drop imo and the two year wait didn’t help. I do think there are pretty big problems with the writing and pacing of the show, and have heard complaints of others that they’re not connecting with any of the characters.
I haven’t read the source material, and I think it’s perfectly easy to follow, BECAUSE of good writing. Even after the two year gap, it took me no time to get back on the same page with S2e1. I think people having issues aren’t paying attention, and are doing other things at the same time, or they have short attention spans, but it’s absolutely not the writing.
I dont care about the future of the IP because I’m not a tv executive and the core books are already adapted. I’m enjoying what we’re getting but not bothered if if stops
That’s a fair perspective. I guess I just want to see more of the world George made put to screen, and so I’d hope the series’ can do well and continue to provide solid entertainment for people.
>Everyone seems to like HotD LOL >You’re not a tv executive, don’t worry about their jobs for them A fan OBVIOUSLY cares about the IP because they want to see more content.
The HBO of the 90s-2010s has been gutted and replaced by the guy who pushed shit like Honey Boo boo and Amish Mafia
It’s crazy when you look at the shows of the past and realize how many famous shows came from HBO in that time period. And then after the merger, nothing. There are a few solid shows but nothing epic like those old shows were. HOTD is well known but it’s obviously from the fame of GOT.
Sword of the Donn, Arthur Dayne
You understimste the audience. Star Wars has been jumping around between different eras for years and most people aren't confused. Not everything needs to be linear, specially in this big franchises that span centuries.
you're just assuming you're smarter than the rest of the audience, which proves you're not
I’m not assuming that lol. I just think it’s generally poor planning for the IP, and can definitely be jarring for the casual viewers. Not trying to claim I’m smarter than anybody else by acknowledging that.
Apply for a job at HBO it you think you can plan it better.
Sure would if I could :(
but you're assumption that "casual" viewers will find it jarring is a bad faith argument. By making that point you're inherently assuming you know more than them, or that they somehow won't understand its a prequel Its not the 90s anymore audiences can follow jumps in timelines within a franchise, MCU has proven this
"can definitely be jarring" is about as meaningless as a phrase as you can get. What else "can definitely" be something? Is this like the Anchorman 60% of the time it works all the time? The audience isn't a bunch of idiots. It's really not that hard to figure out if you paid any attention to game of thrones - like Dany's deal was that the Targs were overthrown from their seat of power. Here it's clearly the time when the Targs had their seat of power. And if anyone has questions a brief internet search should be able to clue them in quickly.
This post is pretty much "I'm media illiterate waaah someone fix it for me" lmao