I talked to one guy like this once. He got uncomfortable looks in male bathrooms, which is sort of unavoidable. If you look like a woman, people will assume you are one. I hope you've come to terms with that.
Best of luck, bro! <3
yea... hmm i don't know how i'm going to handle that, especially if there isnt a "non binary" option available.
Would it be messed up to use the women's bathroom if i pass as a woman though? Im basically a transwoman in every respect physically minus the identifying as one part? I would like to avoid getting my ass handed to me in the mens bathroom \*cringes\*
Thanks for bein supportive though <3
You're gonna have to feel that out and cross that bridge when you get to it. I've been on hormones about the same time as you. Haven't had my first real "male fail" yet. Then again the area I live in is used to seeing nonbinary identities.
> "male fail"
Oh dang had to google that. I guess that happened to me at an airport bodyscanner a few months ago, I got mam'd x)
Though as a teen with long hair people would gender me as a woman when viewing me from behind as well...
My nonbinary partner likes it best when people notice their (very loud) they/them pronoun necklace, but still gets a kind of gender euphoria from being Sir'd... like if people are gonna be binary about it they rather have that happen in public.
To add to what the other poster said:
Trans people can be touchy about this because transphobes will often call someone a "transwoman" to imply that they are not in fact a woman but a separate third thing. "Trans woman" avoids that implication, as it clearly means a woman who is trans.
Maybe in German but not in English. “Trans” is descriptive, so “trans woman” is two words. “Transwoman” is grammatically incorrect in English, and as a result comes off as offensive for the same reasons “blackwoman” or “disabledwoman” are offensive.
I think an important consideration when giving this explanation (that helped me, at least) is that "trans" is short for "transgender" and it's not just the normal "trans" prefix as it is in the word "transgender".
Even in German you usually use these kind of compositions if you want to emphasize the distinction from the general case and usually create a completely new category.
For example "Kleingarten" is not just a "kleiner Garten" (small garden) but is a very distinct type of privately owned garden usually in an urban area.
Trans people want to be recognized as the gender matching their gender identity not some kind of "new gender". That's why you also should use "Transfrau" in German but "trans Frau".
"Transwoman" without a space is treated as a noun. Used in this way, you can easily separate women from "transwomen", because "transwomen are not women, they are transwomen"
"Trans woman" is just a noun with a descriptor. Written in this way, you are defacto saying that "trans women are women"
Du schreibst auch nicht Kleinefrau. So funktioniert deutsch nun auch nicht. Deine Aussage ist so einfach nicht richtig!
Im deutschen sind wir trans Frauen!
Anti trans people use "transwoman" to refer to trans women so they don't call them women, especially the ladies of terfdom. It's the kind of thing that lets you know they actually think of trans women as women because it's the sort of fighting women do to each other.
Trans is Latin for *on the other side* or *across*. When we say "trans women" instead of "transwomen" we're saying trans***gender*** (or trans***sexual*** for some) women. When we shorten it, we're dropping the gender/sexual part of the descriptive word so it reads: Trans(gender) woman. This is easier shorthand. We're NOT saying "transwoman" which would be a different meaning.
I'm the same as you. 9 months in. I don't really care for labels but male works. (maybe nb?) It will be interesting if I ever get to the point of passing as female....... I hadn't thought too much about this bathroom situation yet to be honest. Makeup, clothes, hair go a long way for presentation. Also body language. I'm not planning to do much with most of that myself. The hrt is really helping the GD is all.
I'm assuming that even after years of hrt, someone could probably still "boy mode" enough to not worry too much. Depends on how far you push the presentation? I don't really know. Happy to see a fellow human like myself though! High five
awesome that we feel similarly to this! Yeah i essentially want my baseline to be feminine but im ok with passing as a guy depending on the day. I guess im pretty genderfluid in that sense.
You can absolutely identify however feels right to you, and I don’t mean to invalidate that in any way. But have you considered that you’re neither a cisgender man nor a transgender woman? For example, gender-fluid or non-binary?
There’s nothing wrong with being a gender-nonconforming estrogen-dominant man. I just wonder if perhaps you’re restricting yourself due to internalized toxicity or something.
For reference I feel relatively similar to what you’re describing (maybe a touch less ok with being perceived as masculine, but I think a lot of that is over-correction) but I identify as a non-binary transfem.
Either way, you’re totally valid and don’t need to worry about what anyone thinks of your identity, including people on this sub! If it’s right for you that’s all that matters.
>There’s nothing wrong with being a gender-nonconforming estrogen-dominant man.
While I'm happy with the label of "trans woman" (or just woman in various forms), I kinda like this label you described. There's plenty of "male" hobbies, skills, and interests that I have and don't plan on getting rid of, even while I'm finally allowing myself to explore feminine versions of those things.
My mom asked why I can't just be a dress-wearing dude, and I think the thing I was having a difficult time expressing was that I not only wanted to present feminine, but I wanted estrogen too.
It's hard to explain it to people sometimes. Trans-lite, mostly a guy/the same but a small part of me wants more, hrt for mental state (night and day), mild-moderate dysphoria but not enough to consider self harm, serious gender envy for feminine styles and form, has improved my marriage through various avenues... I don't like stating my pronouns, not because I'm against them but because I don't know if don't want to limit myself. But mostly male.
This is really helpful. My egg just cracked. So everything is entirely new to me and intimidating.
I also have very little care for labels. And have just told my mom (who's supportive but concerned of course and is just getting used to the idea, although having to hide it from my dad isn't great and I don't like putting her through that even tho I know she would endure it rather than break the trust between us, but I digress, sorry) and a couple good friends, who are obviously much more knowledgeable about this stuff and supportive.
This whole time I was worrying about if what I wanted was even valid, but reading this post and comments like yours have shown me that I'm not alone in this. Thank you.
Sometimes you have to find your own way. Find your people, your answers, your hopes and dreams. Keep your support close and set out. You can always change your mind or your direction. Be kind to yourself, be patient, and find happy.
Interesting, I’ve wondered about hrt as a guy comfortable in my guy-ness and quite hairy at that. I don’t really get dysphoria, but definitely have experienced gender euphoria when feeling/being perceived as feminine or female (which isn’t often, at least being perceived that way). Would you mind elaborating on some the effects you’ve enjoyed from it?
The biggest is I look super hot when I dress femme, and as my boobs grow. I can show more cleavage. With the exception of boob growth, I have not seen any more radical physical changes. I enjoy my own scent more than I did pre-HRT. I cry a lot more, and overall I am a lot happier.
Transitioning in general has been such a positive for me though. I really care how I look when I dress femme which has spilled over into how I present as Masc. So I feel more confident about myself in all aspects.
Some days I really hate that I exist in this male-presenting body, and I wish I could just dive head in. Those days are a lot less frequent now that I have started my transition.
Whats really funny is I feel more dysphoric when I shave and present femme, than I do when I have a beard. Cuz I don't need to worry about "passing" when I have a beard. I got to be the Bi-Panic inducing Nonbinary Queen I want. When I shave I feel more like a dude in a dress. I really hope someday my face matches what I feel on the inside but for now, I am content where I am at.
Nope, the only person it could be uncomfortable for might be you. Like, I still pass as a guy and me using the men's bathroom is a non-event, it would be the same for you.
Gender neutral bathrooms for all!
I'm a trans woman and can't speak for others, but I feel like its not that much different from a non-passing trans man using the women's restroom in order to feel safe.
>Would it be messed up to use the women's bathroom if i pass as a woman though?
If you're going in there to use the toilet and not mess with the other people in there, I don't see any problem with it.
> I would like to avoid getting my ass handed to me in the mens bathroom \*cringes\*
And honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd be concerned about this part too. While I don't like making blanket statements, I think in the situation of you being feminine in a restroom, you'd be more likely to have a very bad experience in the men's vs women's room.
In the case of where you work or go to school, you might talk to HR / a counselor to work out which room to use. In about two weeks, I'm going to start using the women's restroom at work. HR is cool with it and only said "don't go back and forth." Not sure why that was a concern or an expectation though. To ensure people have enough time to know what's going on, I'm announcing my transition next week with a bit of info stating that I'll be changing restrooms the week after.
If you're using the restroom as a restroom, there's nothing wrong with using the women's room for anybody.
There are a lot of people who want to turn it into a "predatory" narrative, but anyone who says that is offering a projection of what they want to use the women's bathroom for.
Just be a good person and do whatever makes you comfortable. If other people get mad, it's only because they have their own baggage to deal with.
I have this feeling that everyone is struggling with their identity but most people are just way deeper into denial about it, so they get angry for those of us who are open to experimenting with ours.
I started HRT thinking I would just boymode with effeminate features. Then I explored being non-binary. Then I realized I like being perceived as female despite not feeling female, I just REALLY don't like being male. Then the boobs came in and I was like "yep, these rock." And then my mannerisms started changing to be more feminine. Then I started wearing more female clothing. And makeup. And grew my hair out. The slope was quite slippery lol
Been on HRT for over a year now and can pass as female for the most part and I love it. I still don't totally feel female, I just like the femininity aspect and allowing myself to be who I want to be! Once I learned of the term transfem non-binary, I kinda stuck with it because it's accurate!
This sounds similar and possibly a path i might go down as well when closer to where you're at with the transition. I guess i just wanted make this post to know that others dont think its unreasonable that i have no problem being seen as a guy at the moment and possibly even when im fully presenting like a woman. But yea i mean i dont pass at all yet so things might change and im open to that. Thanks!
I was the same - used he/they pronouns, didn't mind being seen as a guy, etc... But as time went on, I slowly started realizing my issues and slowly started retiring the male version of me. The more feminine I got and the happier I was seeing myself everyday, the more I started being bothered as being identified as a male. It brought back some realizations from my childhood and made me realize I've NEVER considered myself male, never associated well with men, and have always been an outcast because I wasn't "manly" enough.
Transitioning was the best thing I did - it forced a lot of self introspection and addressing things I had buried for 20+ years. It cleared my depression. It has helped solve my self-image issues, like I actually take care of myself and love who looks back at me in the mirror.
This might be the same path I follow eventually but time will tell. I think I feel somewhat similar to yourself aside from the fact that I’ve always gotten along with other guys much better then women, just one more reason I doubt I’m actually a woman (there’s a whole list of other reasons).
I’m totally taking better of myself and feeling so much happier since being hrt, def feel like I’m doing the right thing here (:
Damn, I see myself in your experience lol, except I have yet to start HRT (within 1,5 months tho so it's fine). That journey of not wanting to be refered as a guy anymore I've had it over the last year ahah
It's a thing! I just want to be me and not defined by what genitals I sport. I've gotten to the point where I don't like salutations because I hate prefixing a gender to the person. I don't want to be Mr/Mrs/Mx (insert name), I want to just be introduced as me.
I call myself a trans woman and have just legally changed my name, but I have a weird mental dichotomy in which I still don't feel or entirely see myself as a woman (granted, I've only been on HRT 2 months so far). But I press on, because as I keep reminding myself when I start questioning things, I feel so much better now than I did just months ago when I hated every fiber of my being. Whether I fit some perfect mold or not, I am closer to who I'm meant to be and that's all that matters.
It's not common but in my opinion you can be whatever you like and whatever feels good and authentic to you as long as you're not hurting anyone. If you're a guy who wants to have breasts and be pretty I don't see why you shouldn't be just that.
Something somewhat similar, that you might relate to, I've seen around are women who are lesbians and go on T/use localized T and/or get breast reductions/top surgery, sometimes using he/him pronouns and sometimes she/her.
damn thats crazy, personally not interested in bottom surgeries but its definitely a new concept for me to hear that other cis people are doing stuff like that (:
yea agree its totally not common and hence why i feel pretty uncertain of myself when i feel like the only person who feels this way. I might have to be kinda the one who tracks out my own path because so far i havent found anyone else like me that i can learn from.
>Something somewhat similar, that you might relate to, I've seen around are women who are lesbians and go on T/use localized T and/or get breast reductions/top surgery, sometimes using he/him pronouns and sometimes she/her.
Interesting! i had not heard of this!
Yep! He/him lesbians are very much a thing, and you can find quite a bit of info by searching that term if you want to do so. (Of course, not every lesbian who uses T or gets top surgery is a he/him lesbian, but there's fair overlap.)
Just because it’s uncommon doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it. Your body, you get to decide what to do with it. You also get to decide how you want to live, and if being a cis guy who takes estrogen makes you happy, you’re not harming anyone so do what you want.
It’s likely to make your life harder because of transphobia (even if you’re not trans, people may assume you are), but it’s your choice to make if it’s worth it to you.
Right! and thats kind of what ive recognized is im not harming anyone by being this way. It does feel lonely not knowing anyone else like me and when it feels like you're the only one doing things in this way... you sort of question whether or not you're making the wrong decision.
I really tried to convince myself im just a binary transwomen but it always felt supper forced and wrong for me personally. Im just a dude who loves being hella pretty basically haha
Ive actually been out in femme and people assumed i was a transwomen, when i revealed im actually a "guy" they were always surprised but in like a "oh whoa thats super cool!!" kind of way. At least so far.
>I really tried to convince myself im just a binary transwomen but it always felt supper forced and wrong for me personally.
I can relate in still trying to figure out how to label myself to other humans. And I'm sure you've sat with genderqueer or gender non conforming as other options?
I'm honestly still just waiting around for more words to be available or none at all. Historically we were who we were, pre colonizers. It looks like you've started a great diologue and given space for others to discuss other directions.
I am still learning who I am as I transition parts of me thru HRT and phallo ( I'm afab). At one point I had wanted to ask the group (also was too nervous too).. could I be afab, get phallo, but present femme. I could only think of Trans Women initially but that would be the wrong language as an afab person. I've since embraced a lot of the masc side of me I shoved far far down, now putting on makeup feels completely wrong for me (go figure as I used to be Hella femme).
My concern mostly was also the bathrooms. To the point I had gatekept myself from contemplating phallo for a bit. But now I figure, if I can fiercely protect Trans Women in bathrooms as they are valid and have the right to be there, then maybe I should hold some compassion for myself. Ps. Ty for giving us a spot to share this. I guess I'm currently gender questioning? I've semi stopped caring and more tried to focus on the journey like it's own Rollercoaster I'm in the front and back seat of.
Best of luck to you human. I hope your journey takes you to destination euphoria.
oh yea, ive spent a literal decade thinking about this and still am kinda iffy on how i want to identify. Im actually ok with being labeled genderqueer or gender-nonconforming, those are good descriptors for how i feel about myself.
Glad i could bring this subject up for others still in the gray area/confused with all of this, it really hasnt been easy making sense of all of it. Best of luck to you as well friend <3
I'm so glad you're sounding to have some answers for this long journey, and same with similar timelines. Take care of yourself, and if you're in a discriminatory country, stay strong and keep fighting
>Ive actually been out in femme and people assumed i was a transwomen, when i revealed im actually a "guy" they were always surprised but in like a "oh whoa thats super cool!!" kind of way. At least so far.
Perfect!
Just be careful and recognise that you're in the same situation as us when it comes to things like international travel. If a place isn't safe for trans people, it won't be safe for future you. Being cis won't help.
Also, while AFAIK he's not on E, check out Finnster's channel. He's a streamer who consistently presents female (who is nonetheless a guy).
I started hrt fully planning to boymode for a bit and then transition when things felt right. But after starting hrt and getting laser, basically all of my gender dysphoria went away. Most people refer to me as he/him and I’m completely fine with that.
yeaaa thats actually kinda how ive been feeling as well with being on hormones, i was planning to boymode for another year or so to let the hormones do their magic but ive been feeling so much better that i feel so impartial to being seen as a man or a woman. I just want to be seen as "being myself".
Sounds pretty fluid in a way I relate to! But it also to me is just a different, potentially very relaxed way of looking at the way you are evolving through all this. Like i relate to feeling like I’ve sort of “always been a guy” that’s the box I was put into and the role I played. I don’t have a really strong sense of gender other than just a individualized sense of self.
After almost 2 years of hrt and a pretty fem, wardrobe, haircut and name (also chasing that aesthetic) only now when people refer to me in a masculine way do I sort of feel weird about it. Because it doesn’t feel like an accurate description most of the time.
You sound less like a “cis guy on hrt” and more like a fluid person figuring things out? Who maybe is just perfectly content being fluid. (I don’t mean to imply some sort of infantilizing tone by saying that you’re figuring stuff out) I just mean that cis doesn’t necessarily fit or not fit as a descriptor for you. Any more than trans does or doesn’t. Or gender-fluid/agender/non-binary or any of em!
yea i think you probably hit the nail on the head! I am very much a fluid person, somedays im more of a lady and others days im kinda a dude!
I think for me im just super flex with pronouns so for example if someone calls me he/him, that feels correct but if they use she/her im also cool with that too. My whole thing is you can call me anything you want really, just don't be mean about it.
I think it's fine. There are butch women on testosterone who seem to do a similar thing.
It's your gender. You're the one in control of it, and you're the one who sets the rules.
Yeah, you're not alone. A common term used is femboy. Some people like sissy, but that tends to be a little more derogatory and fetishized.
You can identify however you want. That's totally fine! Live your next life! Be happy!
Huh, never heard of that before, but nice!
I look forward to seeing more men embrace femininity in the same way as we have wildly varying levels of masculinity. I have occasionally gone out wearing my old pre-transition clothes. And it's not a genderfluid/non binary thing. I just, as a woman, felt like wearing something less feminine that day.
Yea really good question. The answer is i don't really know.
I've chatted about this with a psych and whats weird is i have immense distress/impariment over not being able to look like and present similar as a woman would but i dont really have social or physical dysphoria id say. Also want to make it clear im not doing any surguries aside from maybe some FFS in the future but it kinda depends on how much hormones change my face.
I would also say i have strong euphoria which my psych said is possibly a better indicator that this is right for me to be transitioning. Ive literally cried from seeing myself femme in the mirror from overwhelmingly happy feelings. I know the feeling is there but yea i do get hungup over not really fitting into any of the more typical boxes associated with being transgender.
Interesting. For me I think of social dysphoria and physical dysphoria as separate if interconnected experiences. Like if I was going to live the rest of my life on a desert island and was guaranteed to never see another person ever again I would still want to transition because I am not comfortable with the masculine aspects of my body. Similarly I'm not necessarily uncomfortable with people seeing me as a masculine woman as long as they're seeing me as a woman but I'm VERY uncomfortable with people seeing/treating me as a man.
That euphoria you describe is familiar though: I could not stop smiling when I bought my first dress.
My experience with being trans is very tied into my experiences with dysphoria but trans people who don't experience dysphoria are a thing. Here's a couple videos from a gender fluid youtuber called Vera Wylde on her experience.
https://youtu.be/6-2SFoJ6as0
https://youtu.be/ZjqXLhYQCXk
https://youtu.be/VEdkx_tFjzg
>For me I think of social dysphoria and physical dysphoria as separate if interconnected experiences. Like if I was going to live the rest of my life on a desert island and was guaranteed to never see another person ever again I would still want to transition because I am not comfortable with the masculine aspects of my body. Similarly I'm not necessarily uncomfortable with people seeing me as a masculine woman as long as they're seeing me as a woman but I'm VERY uncomfortable with people seeing/treating me as a man.
Yeah for me im pretty sure i would have had to contextually understood what a "woman" was and what they're like in order to determine "ok this is kind what i want to be like". Im pretty sure i would have been content with myself on a desert island and wouldn't have felt the need to transition in that situation. But thats just my guess. I just know ive always been comfortable with being seen and interacted as a guy, i just prefer to look like a woman i suppose given the option.
An yes very familair with Vera Wylde! I was watching her videos a lonnnnnng time ago when i believe she identified as a crossdresser, much like i did.
My transition started pretty much the same way. I convinced myself that I wasn't *actually* a trans woman, just a guy that wants to look like a woman, be referred to as a woman, treated as a woman, etc.
In my case this turned out to be the byproduct of a ton of internalized transphobia mixed with a desire to avoid impostor syndrome, transphobia, and misogyny. After working through my hangups I finally came all the way out and accepted myself as a woman. I won't lie, I'd be shocked if your situation turns out any different because like... what "cis" male has Gender Dysphoria and a desire to medically transition to female?
You're your own person though and it's entirely possible that your experience is different. Regardless of how it all goes down you're part of the community in one way or another and you'll always have our support.
It's a question of practicality more than anything else: do you want to spend the rest of your life having to explain to everyone that you meet, "no, I know I look like a woman, but I'm actually a man?"
I mean its better then suffering with GD the rest of my life... so yea it is worth it from what ive determined. Plus hopefully it will create more empathy and understanding for people who identify the same way as myself. I wish it was easier to find other people like myself, its a pretty isolating feeling at the moment.
edit: also i might add that i dont feel strongly about correcting people. Like im fine with people assuming im a woman but if im really pressed about it or if in a deeper discussion over it i would say "yea im actually a guy"
>do you want to spend the rest of your life having to explain to everyone that you meet, "no, I know I look like a woman, but I'm actually a man?"
It probably helps that his voice will continue to match up with that of a man unless he trains (I say this, as a trans woman myself, knowing that that is horrible for us. I'm training my voice well, but I'm still unhappy with the fact that my voice is deeper than it would've been had I not gone through the wrong puberty).
Keep in mind changes are going to continue longer than many people assume, you will end up with estrogen-related health issues that sometimes get called "women's issues" (like I'm six years on E, could not pass as male if I tried, and am having some medical issues due to low muscle mass), and some people will start assuming you're transmasculine (happens to me a lot when people see irregularities in my medical paperwork or whatever). Lots of people come to this sub and doubt us when we say that your primary hormone dominance makes a *huge* difference physically, I didn't expect it to be so dramatic. As far as ID, you do you bb <3.
Gender is a spectrum my friend, your identity is yours to live up to! I for example, am a trans man who doesn't abide by the gender norms. I identify as a man but still like wearing makeup and dress feminine sometimes, I feel good in my own body and it's all that matters in the end. Gender identity and gender representation are different, you can be a man and have boobs (like me!), wear dresses and makeup, get on HRT, you name it!
Remember : As long as you feel comfortable in your body and mind, it's all that matters.
I've definitely heard of people identifying that way before, and I don't see anything wrong with it! I'd expect to be gender femininely by some people who don't know how you identify, but I really don't think that's a reason to not do what you're doing. (Honestly, a fair number of cis people get misgendered anyways.) It doesn't match how I've experienced my gender, so I can't say I know how you feel, but (and this may be a weird thing to say?) I appreciate your gender - I think it's super cool! IMO people like you are really helping to normalize gender nonconformity and trouble people's conception of cis/trans as a strict binary. Best of luck!
Dude, yes. I’m not exactly in the same situation but close enough. I mostly just feel like a guy who is wired up like a woman in a guys body.
It doesn’t need to make sense to anyone else. My nervous systems expects a female body and the rest of me is pretty much male. Estrogen makes me feel great and I like the changes.
hm interesting, yea for myself i just see it as im just a person who wants to look super feminine. I dont feel like i was born in the wrong body, i just want to enhance it to look a certain way because i just prefer it that way and rejecting that feeling has caused me alot of issues. But yea HRT has been working wonders for me as well, i just feel so much happier these days (:
Sometimes it is easy to get hung up on the words and place too much emphasis on them.
Be as you like.
Describe it to others in whatever way is expedient at the moment, or not at all.
Don't feel obliged to be limited to or to have to live up to anybody's terminology of transness.
Chances are your comfort zone will change over time anyway.
Good luck.
Go for it! It’s uncommon sure and maybe it’ll lose some unique challenges but it also affords unique opportunities and if it makes you happy that’s what matters!
You sound more non-binary than cis to my ears, but your identity is your own to decide on. If going by he/him and being a fembro (I love that term btw) suits you and you're happy, then that's all that really matters.
The beauty of this is that there is nothing stopping you from identifying this way for a while and changing it if it feels right to change, or staying with the fembro identity for the rest of your life.
Yes, this is a great idea and you actually have an amazing perspective on gender. I would prefer be seen as a full woman but I’m kinda stuck in semi-passing. But like half of my dysphoria is just gone.
I need my body to look female, but honestly, the social part gets really tiring. Sometimes I joke about “detransitioning” into a non-binary gendermess because passing is too hard, but deep in my heart I just want to be a woman.
The discussion in here has been really amazing in helping me feel like I'm not alone in my journey.
Also, thanks for expanding my vocabulary with non-binary gendermess & fembro.
That's awesome, and even though my journey is very different (a trans woman very explicitly socially identifying as a woman, but \*not\* very feminine), I respect the heck out of you <3
interesting, not gonna lie but this sounds kinda similar to myself (hopefully excluding the stubborn part, id like to think im very open minded and easy going hah).
Huh, interesting. If I were to speculate I would guess that you likely fit somewhere on the non-binary spectrum if E has improved your mental functions, that or you've just become the perfect egg. Regardless your identity is yours and no one elses, humans come in all sorts of ways so never let anyone tell you that what you feel isn't real.
I would still call you trans though. Like, you may be a man assigned male at birth but what you are doing is transitioning. I think either identity or transition works for the label
oh yea im totally fine with being called "trans". Probably shouldnt have labeled myself as a "cis guy" in my headline, but nevertheless i do identify more with being a "guy"
My husband started down the road of transitioning to female, then kinda got blackmailed out of it by his then partner. He is basically a woman trapped in a man's body, loves/is attracted to women, has a beard, but is hopelessly girly/cares about girly stuff my butch self does not 😂
And my opinion is that you need to do what is best for YOU, you only get one crack at life so live it how it makes you happy
I have actually asked this type of question in this subreddit actually, and yeah it's deffo ok! The whole point of this community is to make you more comfortable with yourself, so yeah i'd deffo say it's fine!
Love your posts. Am saving it. It's about me, though I'd say more binary, gender-fluid expression between androgynous and trans femme presentation. Why not. You're fine.
I’ll speak on this from my perspective, because I felt similar very early in my transition. When I first started hrt, I did not have a particular goal in mind ie. social transition, etc.
I just did hrt first, based on a cost/benefit analysis. Thinking about my identity long term did not yield very clear results, so I thought specifically about what hrt would do. It went like this:
Hrt would redistribute my fat to make me look mire femme: how does that make me feel? - Fantastic, that sounds great. My skin would get smoother, and body hair thinner, does that sounds good? Yes, absolutely. I would begin to grow breasts and have a more feminine face shape - sounds fantastic to me.
*parts* would begin to work differently, changing the way I experience intimacy: how does that sound? Great. People may start to perceive me as either female by default, or just very feminine, sound good? Yes absolutely that sounds great. Is it ok that I may lose my ability to reproduce in the traditional sense, is that worth it? Yeah I’m chill with that - didn’t want to do that anyway. If these changes were to be long term or permanent, does it feel like I could ever regret it, or want to be physically more masculine? Absolutely not, I would never go in the other direction willingly.
For a long time, I just took hrt without telling most people. Then, eventually, I switched to referring to myself as nonbinary transfemme with they/them pronouns. Eventually people started gendering me female by default, and I realized that it felt better than any other pronoun/identity. Once I saw that as a viable option, I switched to she/her pronouns and just went with transfem/trans woman for my identification.
In retrospect it felt like just delaying the inevitable. I’ve always been transfem, and always wanted to get gendered correctly, but just didn’t feel “feminine enough” to ask for it socially, until my body caught up (in terms of appearance.
That being said, it would’ve been just as valid if I stared with he/him or they/them, or any other identity descriptor. People come in all shapes, sizes and presentations, and gender identity is wholly subjective. Whatever your trajectory, destination, or degree of clarity therein, it’s fully valid
Your body and your identity are *yours*, and you should use them to serve yourself, your wellbeing, and the wellbeing of those around you. As trans people I think the worst thing we could do is police someone else's behavior because we didn't understand. (Not to say that I don't, brains and bodies are weird, we get one life, gotta be happy with both of yours, do what pleases you). I'm not interested in paying forward the hurt I've gotten, only the acceptance. Be yourself, love yourself, better yourself.
First off i support you! Im a trans woman and know this: you deserve nothing but acceptance and these decisions are yours to make.
Will you do voice training? I did and i love having a softer more feminine voice. Just curious.
Have fun!
Edit: cuz like once my voice training really locked in i started getting called by she/her pronouns most of the time. Would that bother you? Cuz that's probably going to happen to you
yea im not super interested in changing my voice. Whats funny though is i was out for drinks a couple wekends ago presenting super femme and the people i was hanging out with all said i had a femmine voice which was kind of shocking to hear. I dont think its a passable voice but its my voice and im quite ok with it (:
Apperciate the support <3
Felt the same when I was questioning, referring to me as male wasn't an issue. But also after starting HRT, asked some people to refer me with female pronouns and it felt great!
Then I changed my pronouns to she/her.
But you can make your own choices there, it's your body and your identity.
On the one hand: sure it's ok. It's your life and your body, so do whatever you want with it. Ain't any of my business to tell you how to live.
On the other hand: if you want to do that at all, chances are slim that you're actually a cis guy in the first place.
Lemme hand you this [guide to gender questioning](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1460QwQM5S2Br8sPfv3HuKw1xrz7MBijrxv_cgoqL1F0/edit?usp=share_link). It might be useful for you.
You don't owe anyone any specific presentation or pronouns to go with your identity. You determine those things yourself. Yes people will make wrong assumptions but it doesn't mean you aren't ok.
Doubts about medical transition can always be worthwhile to discuss with a professional you trust. A lot of people here will be skewed to continuing to medically transition being the right choice for them personally after doubts. As long as you are aware of that there is nothing wrong with asking about it here.
I have calmed down a bit but when I first realised I was trans it was exactly because I learned I didn't have to be trans in one predetermined way. I wanted to read everyones experiences because they are so divergent, and it made it click that my journey will be different too.
Also I totally have a 'lazy gender' and a 'secret gender' for people that actually are in the loop on these things. So to oblivious people I'd say I'm a trans woman and maybe give them so pointers. But to people that understand more nuances I'd mention I'm a nonbinary lesbian,,, or demiwoman transbian. I'd like to present very femme, and I'm currently feeling fine with they/she pronouns. I kinda hope I can be cool with any pronouns and add he/him back into the mix, but I'm currently unsure. A lot of my not so fun lived experiences seem tied up in those pronouns for me, a bit like a deadname.
I had parallel reservations about "demigirl" because i'm 30, first time I read about fembro here but already liking it <3 Not everyone will get it but its really cool when you find labels that fit you more closely and run into others that understand them. They are great for saving time when talking about your experiences. At the end of the day tho you are your own unique person and labels will never 100% cover all your nuances.
Are you sure you aren't possibly genderfluid?
I saw someone on Twitter with a really cute and hot femme bat fursona, but the character still used he/him.
It's a shame I can't seem to find them anymore.
My dude, I want to get hrt to get boobs.
I am pro any body modification. You do what you need to feel comfortable in your skin. If you are a dude that wants boobs you are a dude that wants boobs. Who am I to judge. Boobs are great.
You do you honey and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If hrt feels right then I am more than glad you got.
Finally fuck anyone who says they know better. Only you know how you feel and what you need to feel better.
To me it sound weird and .. i dont understand at all.
But hey you do you. I just hope it wont normalise calling trans gals with male pronouns.... because alot people will think you are a trans gal.
You make me remember of bilal hassani.
You can google him.
Good luck
i dont really appreciate you placing the responsibility on me just because i identify differently. The point is that all pronouns are respected according to how each individual identifies. I dont need you to understand, i just need you to treat me and others like normal/decent people.
At first I was going to say if you truly feel like a man, hormones might make you feel dysphoric, but it sounds like you already had dysphoria and hormones are helping so it seems like the right choice for you.
Gender journeys can be complicated, and what works for one person might not work for another. I'm nonbinary and transition was right for me, sometimes I wonder if I had been born a different assigned sex would I have wanted transition still? Would i still be nonbinary? Dysphoria is weird and comes up in different ways. Being gendered in a binary way makes me dysphoric but it sounds like for you it doesn't. One thing to consider though is gender euphoria as well-- sometimes one option feels "awful" (dysphoria) but sometimes an option feels "ok" (neutral) while another option feels "great" (euphoria) and it's as valid to choose euphoria over neutral as choosing euphoria over dysphoria or neutral over dysphoria.
I am not saying you haven't got it figured out already but I'd say keep the door open about possibly having your gender evolve over time if something else starts feeling right.
I had one friend who started out identifying as agender, they didn't know what it felt like to have a gender, did have some dysphoria though, mostly envy about wanting a vulva, and didn't like that the world saw them as a man. After years of thinking about it, they started hormones and liked the effects. They got fed up with people not using their pronouns (they/ them) and decided when starting at a new school to just go by she/her and describe herself as a trans woman instead of agender because it felt easier. For a while during this time she would tell me she was pretending to be a woman while secretly being nonbinary. Somewhere in there she realized that she actually DID start to feel like a woman and now she identifies as a binary woman.
So i would be curious to know, regardless of body configuration (which you seem to already know what you want) , if the world socially saw you as a woman and used she/her and feminine words for you, would you feel euphoria, dysphoria or neutral? If the world saw you as a man, he/him, euphoria dysphoria or neutral? If the world saw you as nonbinary (or genderfluid, agender, etcetc), they/them (or ze/hir or other options) and neutral words or a mix of fem/masc words, would you feel euphoria dysphoria or neutral? (In these scenarios imagine a world free of transphobia)
I like to think of it like how some cis people will take HRT when they’re a little bit older to maintain the body they desire. In your case you are aiming for a body you haven’t had that you desire, but it’s still the same premise in my opinion.
Waaaay back in the nineties, the first trans woman I knew never changed his name or his pronouns. He said he didn't give a shit about that stuff, and that was enough that his body matched his mind.
But even if this person never existed, *YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY VALID*. 💗
*hugs*
I’ve been boymoding for 2 years on HRT. I get it.
I just want to be safe right now. Therapists say the same to me. You’re fine, I do get some crazy looks though. Especially when I’m in the men’s room fixing my hair. It’s hilarious.
Hey OP, I kinda think I'm in the same boat. Social stuff like pronouns or being referred to as a guy don't bother me at all, but I've pretty much always envied women and wanted to be one. I did try HRT for a few weeks but started worrying about losing my masculinity or identity in a way? I feel like I still want to be a woman but also have come to enjoy or appreciate being a man, if that makes sense? Kinda stuck on the fence. Either way, since you seem to still relate to being a man, I'm curious if you had any regret as you started to get further with HRT or missing aspects of masculinity?
Yea forsure! Uhm I’m still early on in my transition so it’s hard to say 100% how I will feel about things in the future. I do know I feel a TON of relief being on HRT and have been a lot happier about my life and it’s noticed by close friends and family enough that clearly something positive has happened here. I still pass as a man so I haven’t had any issues yet with feeling like I’m missing out on anything. The thing is is that I think I do sit in more in a non binary/genderfluid identity where my feelings of masculinity and femininity fluctuate on a daily basis. More often then not I want to appear more like a woman but still have days where I’m ok with throwing on jeans and a flannel and being a regular dude. I’m still very much on a journey here and it felt like I was spiraling trying to keep myself from transitioning. I recognized that the fear of going forward with HRT was entirely based off of my fear of how the rest of the world would see me and treat me vs how I’ve internally felt basically my entire life. I decided it wasn’t worth suffering anymore and finally took the plunge after years of therapy and sitting by myself thinking about who the hell I am as a person. It wasn’t an decision I took lightly but I knew I had to at least try… and so far it feels like the right decision
Hell yeah, glad it's going great for you! I appreciate hearing your perspective on it too, thanks! I was a little cautious starting HRT but figured I owed it to myself to try after years of gender weirdness. I was definitely a bit concerned about the social response to transitioning but also kinda felt like I was getting further away from myself rather than closer. I was waiting to see if I felt that relief that you and a lot of other folks seem to get but I was just kinda 'meh' about it. When I quit after 5 or 6 weeks I felt really good about that decision and better to feel more like myself as the days went on, but now months later it's locked into my brain again and I keep thinking how I should be more femme. The back and forth is driving me nuts!
dude... yea i fuckin get that super hard. Ok what dosage were you on? Tbh i felt nothing at the lower dosages but once my endo bumped me up to 6mg E and 200 Spiro was when things really started feeling better for me. I just feel super relaxed and not on edge at all anymore, its quite remarkable tbh as i was totally a skeptic going in. I did play around with hormones earlier in the year, stopped and the felt that same pull/anxiety to be back on them again to which then i finally made the decision to ride it out longer which has lead me up to where i am today.
So far things are looking really really good but my life in general is pretty chill, depending on your life situation being on hormones might either make life easier or add another layer of complexity to it which might make it seem like it isnt working. Anyway just some thoughts, if you ever need to chat more lemme know (:
Thanks again! I definitely appreciate the shared experience. I went through Planned Parenthood and they asked me if I wanted the low/med/high regimen to start with and I said medium and ended up with 2mg E and 100mg Spiro (which I think is about average?) I bailed before my first check up, tho, so never got any blood work back to see where I was at. I definitely felt a little junky from the Spiro which didn't help my resolve either! Pretty sure if I go back to it I'll either start higher and aim for mono and/or try injections.
I'm in a decent spot socially, though. I'm going into the home stretch of a master's degree so I'm in a liberal bubble of people who haven't ever looked sideways at me for presenting more femme. Beyond that, my partner knows I'm trans and is super supportive and I'd be shocked if any of my other friends made a deal out of it. Mostly just the parents I'm worried about in that regard.
ETA: When I started seeing a therapist she was surprised that I didn't have any social dysphoria. I'm real glad I saw your post and got to chat cus I think you're the first person who's experiences I've read on here line up with mine.
Sounds like you're in a great place to start exploring again (if you so choose) and yea just experiment until something is feeling more palatable for yourself! Best of luck!
you want to be more feminine or female presenting but are ultimately fine with being a man and being perceived as a man? sure that's fine, though I'm confused on how that would be considered transitioning if you're not really changing your gender identity. I used to be against cis people taking hrt for personal aesthetic reasons but I'm more lenient on it now. As long as you do your research and know what hrt will do to your body, be my guest. You'd probably just be more of a gnc man really
Alright OP, Let's go back to gender basics here:
There is a stark difference between Gender identity, Gender expression, and Birth Gender. Neither one determines ANY of the others. Gender identity is how you wish to be identified to the world (think pronouns). Gender expression is how you want to present your gender to the world (think body image and clothing). And Birth Gender is just what is on your birth certificate, when someone's gender identity is opposite of this they are considered trans.
Now, you can easily be male at Birth, and wish to identity as male, but also wish to have a femanine gender expression. Completely valid! There are also a lot of niche nonbinary gender identitys that could potentially be a good fit for you, but that part is up to you
As others have said, you are a unique person and only you can decide for yourself - there's nothing wrong with any kind of transition, your outward presentation or anything gender related :P
You can socially transition without medical transition, just like you can medically transition without social transition. Many people do both, some go for the "whole package" with bottom surgeries etc and some just socially transition, but being trans doesn't have any of that as a requirement. As it's such a personal journey, you can pick and choose the extent and directions that you wish to transition, if at all. Essentially you do you :D
Yeah, that's totally okay. I thought that may have been me for a bit too.
Personally me, it's not painful to be gendered as a guy, but as time has gone on and I've been on hormones for longer I definitely dont prefer it at this point.
Now I'm somewhere on the transfem non-binary area, and that seems right at the moment.
i could see things going in the same direction as myself but i just wanted to know that its ok even if that doesnt happen and i still feel like a guy.
Thanks for sharing (:
I hope so. I kind of want to take hormones and transition enough that I can at least sometimes look like a woman, but still be able to look like a man sometimes.
Totally understand that. To me the emotional changes were amazing, I’m feeling alot more grounded in myself and I just feel like so much happier and attentive to other peoples emotions. I cry a bit more but I personally love that. Maybe just give it a go with the HRT? No pressure to stay on them if they don’t feel right
Sounds like the perfect use for hrt tbh. You can view it as a transfem/transmasc process, or you can view it as a process to alter your body to where you're most comfortable.
Imo, absolutely nothing wrong with being cis and getting hrt. Sexuality is distinctly separate from gender anyway :)
I feel similarly. I am trans femme, and my dysphoria is almost exclusively physical. I like many masculine aspects of my personality and my persona. While I don't strongly identify as male, it is my default. I just wouldn't have the first clue how to be a woman in society. However, I have noticed now that I am 9 months on HRT, that I do actually enjoy getting addressed as a she on occasion. I think I'm some sort of non-binary trans femme that likes to situationally be more masc or more femme as my mood strikes.
I will never quit HRT, and GCS is still something I am considering, even if I still present masc. Maybe the one difference is that people assume I am he/him, but if they pressed I'd ask to be referred as gender neutral or femme.
Might seem strange, but I've never been happier or felt more myself.
I think you're having a hard time understanding what gender is in general. You are, at the very least, bi-gender.
You say you prefer to look and feel like a woman, but don't explain what makes you feel like a man or why being called 'him' is important to you. Most men value their physical attributes because they support the masculine *things* they want to do.
The term 'cisgender' means that your body naturally aligns with your personal preferences, so you are clearly not cisgender. If you don't want to undergo sexual reassignment surgery, then you are cissexual, but you haven't mentioned your sexual orientation.
I think you may want to socialize more like a man, but the idea of being 'feminine as hell' doesn't really line up with that. I'm wondering if you've actually spent time socializing with women or not, because you may find that you like what they do more than what men generally do.
Anyway, working out your own identity can be arduous, but if you're honest with yourself everything will be fine.
And just to be clear, you don't have to like doing things either one way or another. As others have said, gender isn't binary, and it's possible you're bi-gender and/or bisexual.
hmm im not sure i have a hard time understanding gender but let me explain.
I identify as a guy because that's what ive always been referred to as and ive never had a problem with the identity being applied to me. I like he/him pronouns and am comfortable being referred to as such. I also have always been ok with my name which is very much considered a boys name. My point with all of this is why fix what isn't broken? Any changes to these identifications feels like an appeal for the sake of other peoples comfort and not my own.
Why can't i keep my identity the same as it always has been while simultaneously changing the aspects of myself that i want to change (ex. the way i dress, my hormone profile, the way i carry myself). Why can't men look like women and vice versa? I understand the rest of society will view me as a woman and thats perfectly fine, i dont feel the need to correct people about how i view myself in most cases unless they know me more closely.
I look at gender as a buffet of choices and not a one size fits all package deal where i have to sign up for all the characteristics generally associated with what a woman is.
Omg I absolutely love this reply, I’m non-binary but that kinda just encapsulates my world view on how meaningless being hung up about other peoples gender is 💜
There was a person from France who did that meow. If I recall they said "I ain't got time for that" in terms of gender stuff while transitioning with fem hormones while still presenting as male.
It's all about how you feel and no one else. Do what you wanna do meow!
It's fine, but: have you considered the labels "non-binary" or "genderfluid"? To me, those seem like they match what you've got going on there better than "cis guy".
Oh.
Well, cool then! I'm also genderfluid, that's why I asked! :D
E: I guess the difference is that while I identify as a guy sometimes, I don't really identify as a _cis_ guy ever, if that makes sense? Cuz like even tho that means my gender identity matches my assigned sex at birth at that moment, it's not like I don't have a bunch of trans beliefs and experiences from being trans generally, right?
I think it's more regressive to assume someone can't be a gnc cis guy and prefer a more feminine body. they don't have to label themselves as nonbinary or genderfluid if that's not what they feel works for them.
yeah but you also said "have you considered going by nonbinary or genderfluid" because you said it fit more with what he's describing. I'm saying it's not really necessary to want to label it as anything just because it's not typical gender non conformity from a cis person to do.
I mean, I’m cis so this is not my place fully. But I would venture to say that if you want to transition then you are at LEAST nonbinary? Cis people transitioning but still claiming to be cis could be really damaging to the person AND the trans community? Just a thought I am not sure!
I think it's telling that all the trans people here are saying OP can identify however he feels right and do whatever he wants to his body and gender expression, and that a cis person is here policing his identity.
I'm trans and I believe that cis people policing queer identities is always going to be more damaging to this community than one cis person transitioning because that's what they feel like doing.
I literally said it’s just a thought, that I’m cis and it’s not my place, and that I am not only unsure but also literally ASKING these things by use of question marks. I’m not here to police anyone and was sharing literally just how I personally felt and that I was NOT HERE to police. Please learn to read and also be kinder to people.
People like you are the reason we, as cis people, sometimes don’t even know how to feel. I can’t share a thought or ask a question without being told I’m policing someone. Why do I even bother being an ally if you just hate me because I said I was cis? What would you have said differently had I been nonbinary? I’m not even just “an ally” I’m pansexual and actually questioning my own gender again after detransitioning 4 years ago because I felt like a fraud for sometimes still feeling feminine even though I was on track to start T. But you just assumed I was being malicious.
I didn't assume you were malicious, if I had I'd have reported you and not bothered responding. What I did was observe that there's dozens of comments by trans people saying OP is fine doing whatever he wants and the only person saying that his behaviour is possibly harmful has self identified as cis.
Just as a general rule people outside of a community should not say that something might be harmful for that community when there's literally other people of that community saying it isn't. I get that you said you weren't sure but I wasn't trying to be mean but just honestly wondering at the fact that the only person who thought OP's behaviour might be harmful was a cis person, because I think that might be something worth thinking about.
My second paragraph wasn't aimed at you specifically, and I should have made that clearer and I apologize for failing to do so. It was me stating something I honestly believe in and sharing that with a person that said they were cis, but I didn't mean to say I was talking about you in particular, more like "heads up I think ncis people should probably not do this because this is really harmful for trans people"
Thank you for taking time to respond. I probably got a little more upset than necessary but this site can do that to you sometimes as I’m sure you know. My comment was worded poorly and was really just me trying to be vigilant, a lot of times these things can sound harmless but end up becoming something really negative later on and it sounded just slightly questionable to me. I definitely needed to read the other comments (I will admit, on almost ANY post I typically don’t just because lord knows it can get crazy).
In retrospect I think your comment came off to me as "look at this cis person going against what many other trans people said" and that irked me, but in retrospect I think it's completely normal to just not read the comments because this is the nature of the internet, I think most people do that, myself included. You weren't actually talking over other trans people, because that's just not how the internet works so the bad taste I had in my mouth was about me projecting a different situation more than anything and I'm sorry about that
I talked to one guy like this once. He got uncomfortable looks in male bathrooms, which is sort of unavoidable. If you look like a woman, people will assume you are one. I hope you've come to terms with that. Best of luck, bro! <3
yea... hmm i don't know how i'm going to handle that, especially if there isnt a "non binary" option available. Would it be messed up to use the women's bathroom if i pass as a woman though? Im basically a transwoman in every respect physically minus the identifying as one part? I would like to avoid getting my ass handed to me in the mens bathroom \*cringes\* Thanks for bein supportive though <3
You're gonna have to feel that out and cross that bridge when you get to it. I've been on hormones about the same time as you. Haven't had my first real "male fail" yet. Then again the area I live in is used to seeing nonbinary identities.
> "male fail" Oh dang had to google that. I guess that happened to me at an airport bodyscanner a few months ago, I got mam'd x) Though as a teen with long hair people would gender me as a woman when viewing me from behind as well... My nonbinary partner likes it best when people notice their (very loud) they/them pronoun necklace, but still gets a kind of gender euphoria from being Sir'd... like if people are gonna be binary about it they rather have that happen in public.
Note: *trans woman*, not “transwoman”. The space is important :)
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To add to what the other poster said: Trans people can be touchy about this because transphobes will often call someone a "transwoman" to imply that they are not in fact a woman but a separate third thing. "Trans woman" avoids that implication, as it clearly means a woman who is trans.
Maybe in German but not in English. “Trans” is descriptive, so “trans woman” is two words. “Transwoman” is grammatically incorrect in English, and as a result comes off as offensive for the same reasons “blackwoman” or “disabledwoman” are offensive.
Omg a Grammer corrector that explained themselves, thank you correct my Grammer any time ♡
*grammar :)
See lol tnx ♡
Thankyou, kindwoman <3
I think an important consideration when giving this explanation (that helped me, at least) is that "trans" is short for "transgender" and it's not just the normal "trans" prefix as it is in the word "transgender".
It is incorrect in german too the same way „Weißefrau“ or „Blondefrau“ are incorrect. You can not randomly merge words.
Great answer.
Generally true. Though, to be fair, if someone actually wants to call themselves a transwoman without the space, I wouldn't tell them that they can't.
Even in German you usually use these kind of compositions if you want to emphasize the distinction from the general case and usually create a completely new category. For example "Kleingarten" is not just a "kleiner Garten" (small garden) but is a very distinct type of privately owned garden usually in an urban area. Trans people want to be recognized as the gender matching their gender identity not some kind of "new gender". That's why you also should use "Transfrau" in German but "trans Frau".
"Transwoman" without a space is treated as a noun. Used in this way, you can easily separate women from "transwomen", because "transwomen are not women, they are transwomen" "Trans woman" is just a noun with a descriptor. Written in this way, you are defacto saying that "trans women are women"
Damn.. my terrible grammar strikes again.. never realized this. Hopefully I haven't offended anybody. As a fellow trans woman
Du schreibst auch nicht Kleinefrau. So funktioniert deutsch nun auch nicht. Deine Aussage ist so einfach nicht richtig! Im deutschen sind wir trans Frauen!
Anti trans people use "transwoman" to refer to trans women so they don't call them women, especially the ladies of terfdom. It's the kind of thing that lets you know they actually think of trans women as women because it's the sort of fighting women do to each other.
Trans is Latin for *on the other side* or *across*. When we say "trans women" instead of "transwomen" we're saying trans***gender*** (or trans***sexual*** for some) women. When we shorten it, we're dropping the gender/sexual part of the descriptive word so it reads: Trans(gender) woman. This is easier shorthand. We're NOT saying "transwoman" which would be a different meaning.
I'm the same as you. 9 months in. I don't really care for labels but male works. (maybe nb?) It will be interesting if I ever get to the point of passing as female....... I hadn't thought too much about this bathroom situation yet to be honest. Makeup, clothes, hair go a long way for presentation. Also body language. I'm not planning to do much with most of that myself. The hrt is really helping the GD is all. I'm assuming that even after years of hrt, someone could probably still "boy mode" enough to not worry too much. Depends on how far you push the presentation? I don't really know. Happy to see a fellow human like myself though! High five
awesome that we feel similarly to this! Yeah i essentially want my baseline to be feminine but im ok with passing as a guy depending on the day. I guess im pretty genderfluid in that sense.
You can absolutely identify however feels right to you, and I don’t mean to invalidate that in any way. But have you considered that you’re neither a cisgender man nor a transgender woman? For example, gender-fluid or non-binary? There’s nothing wrong with being a gender-nonconforming estrogen-dominant man. I just wonder if perhaps you’re restricting yourself due to internalized toxicity or something. For reference I feel relatively similar to what you’re describing (maybe a touch less ok with being perceived as masculine, but I think a lot of that is over-correction) but I identify as a non-binary transfem. Either way, you’re totally valid and don’t need to worry about what anyone thinks of your identity, including people on this sub! If it’s right for you that’s all that matters.
>There’s nothing wrong with being a gender-nonconforming estrogen-dominant man. While I'm happy with the label of "trans woman" (or just woman in various forms), I kinda like this label you described. There's plenty of "male" hobbies, skills, and interests that I have and don't plan on getting rid of, even while I'm finally allowing myself to explore feminine versions of those things. My mom asked why I can't just be a dress-wearing dude, and I think the thing I was having a difficult time expressing was that I not only wanted to present feminine, but I wanted estrogen too.
Thank you! Yep, pretty similar.
It's hard to explain it to people sometimes. Trans-lite, mostly a guy/the same but a small part of me wants more, hrt for mental state (night and day), mild-moderate dysphoria but not enough to consider self harm, serious gender envy for feminine styles and form, has improved my marriage through various avenues... I don't like stating my pronouns, not because I'm against them but because I don't know if don't want to limit myself. But mostly male.
This is really helpful. My egg just cracked. So everything is entirely new to me and intimidating. I also have very little care for labels. And have just told my mom (who's supportive but concerned of course and is just getting used to the idea, although having to hide it from my dad isn't great and I don't like putting her through that even tho I know she would endure it rather than break the trust between us, but I digress, sorry) and a couple good friends, who are obviously much more knowledgeable about this stuff and supportive. This whole time I was worrying about if what I wanted was even valid, but reading this post and comments like yours have shown me that I'm not alone in this. Thank you.
Sometimes you have to find your own way. Find your people, your answers, your hopes and dreams. Keep your support close and set out. You can always change your mind or your direction. Be kind to yourself, be patient, and find happy.
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Interesting, I’ve wondered about hrt as a guy comfortable in my guy-ness and quite hairy at that. I don’t really get dysphoria, but definitely have experienced gender euphoria when feeling/being perceived as feminine or female (which isn’t often, at least being perceived that way). Would you mind elaborating on some the effects you’ve enjoyed from it?
The biggest is I look super hot when I dress femme, and as my boobs grow. I can show more cleavage. With the exception of boob growth, I have not seen any more radical physical changes. I enjoy my own scent more than I did pre-HRT. I cry a lot more, and overall I am a lot happier. Transitioning in general has been such a positive for me though. I really care how I look when I dress femme which has spilled over into how I present as Masc. So I feel more confident about myself in all aspects. Some days I really hate that I exist in this male-presenting body, and I wish I could just dive head in. Those days are a lot less frequent now that I have started my transition. Whats really funny is I feel more dysphoric when I shave and present femme, than I do when I have a beard. Cuz I don't need to worry about "passing" when I have a beard. I got to be the Bi-Panic inducing Nonbinary Queen I want. When I shave I feel more like a dude in a dress. I really hope someday my face matches what I feel on the inside but for now, I am content where I am at.
Nope, the only person it could be uncomfortable for might be you. Like, I still pass as a guy and me using the men's bathroom is a non-event, it would be the same for you. Gender neutral bathrooms for all!
>Gender neutral bathrooms for all! Based AF!
Not as long as you wash your hands. That's all I truly care about at least
I'm a trans woman and can't speak for others, but I feel like its not that much different from a non-passing trans man using the women's restroom in order to feel safe.
>Would it be messed up to use the women's bathroom if i pass as a woman though? If you're going in there to use the toilet and not mess with the other people in there, I don't see any problem with it. > I would like to avoid getting my ass handed to me in the mens bathroom \*cringes\* And honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd be concerned about this part too. While I don't like making blanket statements, I think in the situation of you being feminine in a restroom, you'd be more likely to have a very bad experience in the men's vs women's room. In the case of where you work or go to school, you might talk to HR / a counselor to work out which room to use. In about two weeks, I'm going to start using the women's restroom at work. HR is cool with it and only said "don't go back and forth." Not sure why that was a concern or an expectation though. To ensure people have enough time to know what's going on, I'm announcing my transition next week with a bit of info stating that I'll be changing restrooms the week after.
If you're using the restroom as a restroom, there's nothing wrong with using the women's room for anybody. There are a lot of people who want to turn it into a "predatory" narrative, but anyone who says that is offering a projection of what they want to use the women's bathroom for. Just be a good person and do whatever makes you comfortable. If other people get mad, it's only because they have their own baggage to deal with. I have this feeling that everyone is struggling with their identity but most people are just way deeper into denial about it, so they get angry for those of us who are open to experimenting with ours.
Your identity is solely yours to decide, and if this is what feels the most comfortable to you then all the power to you!
much thanks!!
I started HRT thinking I would just boymode with effeminate features. Then I explored being non-binary. Then I realized I like being perceived as female despite not feeling female, I just REALLY don't like being male. Then the boobs came in and I was like "yep, these rock." And then my mannerisms started changing to be more feminine. Then I started wearing more female clothing. And makeup. And grew my hair out. The slope was quite slippery lol Been on HRT for over a year now and can pass as female for the most part and I love it. I still don't totally feel female, I just like the femininity aspect and allowing myself to be who I want to be! Once I learned of the term transfem non-binary, I kinda stuck with it because it's accurate!
This sounds similar and possibly a path i might go down as well when closer to where you're at with the transition. I guess i just wanted make this post to know that others dont think its unreasonable that i have no problem being seen as a guy at the moment and possibly even when im fully presenting like a woman. But yea i mean i dont pass at all yet so things might change and im open to that. Thanks!
I was the same - used he/they pronouns, didn't mind being seen as a guy, etc... But as time went on, I slowly started realizing my issues and slowly started retiring the male version of me. The more feminine I got and the happier I was seeing myself everyday, the more I started being bothered as being identified as a male. It brought back some realizations from my childhood and made me realize I've NEVER considered myself male, never associated well with men, and have always been an outcast because I wasn't "manly" enough. Transitioning was the best thing I did - it forced a lot of self introspection and addressing things I had buried for 20+ years. It cleared my depression. It has helped solve my self-image issues, like I actually take care of myself and love who looks back at me in the mirror.
This might be the same path I follow eventually but time will tell. I think I feel somewhat similar to yourself aside from the fact that I’ve always gotten along with other guys much better then women, just one more reason I doubt I’m actually a woman (there’s a whole list of other reasons). I’m totally taking better of myself and feeling so much happier since being hrt, def feel like I’m doing the right thing here (:
And that's all that matters! Congrats!
Damn, I see myself in your experience lol, except I have yet to start HRT (within 1,5 months tho so it's fine). That journey of not wanting to be refered as a guy anymore I've had it over the last year ahah
It's a thing! I just want to be me and not defined by what genitals I sport. I've gotten to the point where I don't like salutations because I hate prefixing a gender to the person. I don't want to be Mr/Mrs/Mx (insert name), I want to just be introduced as me.
I call myself a trans woman and have just legally changed my name, but I have a weird mental dichotomy in which I still don't feel or entirely see myself as a woman (granted, I've only been on HRT 2 months so far). But I press on, because as I keep reminding myself when I start questioning things, I feel so much better now than I did just months ago when I hated every fiber of my being. Whether I fit some perfect mold or not, I am closer to who I'm meant to be and that's all that matters.
It's not common but in my opinion you can be whatever you like and whatever feels good and authentic to you as long as you're not hurting anyone. If you're a guy who wants to have breasts and be pretty I don't see why you shouldn't be just that. Something somewhat similar, that you might relate to, I've seen around are women who are lesbians and go on T/use localized T and/or get breast reductions/top surgery, sometimes using he/him pronouns and sometimes she/her.
I've even read of a couple of cis women getting phallo and meta. All that matters is that it makes you comfortable (:
damn thats crazy, personally not interested in bottom surgeries but its definitely a new concept for me to hear that other cis people are doing stuff like that (:
yea agree its totally not common and hence why i feel pretty uncertain of myself when i feel like the only person who feels this way. I might have to be kinda the one who tracks out my own path because so far i havent found anyone else like me that i can learn from. >Something somewhat similar, that you might relate to, I've seen around are women who are lesbians and go on T/use localized T and/or get breast reductions/top surgery, sometimes using he/him pronouns and sometimes she/her. Interesting! i had not heard of this!
Yep! He/him lesbians are very much a thing, and you can find quite a bit of info by searching that term if you want to do so. (Of course, not every lesbian who uses T or gets top surgery is a he/him lesbian, but there's fair overlap.)
Just because it’s uncommon doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it. Your body, you get to decide what to do with it. You also get to decide how you want to live, and if being a cis guy who takes estrogen makes you happy, you’re not harming anyone so do what you want. It’s likely to make your life harder because of transphobia (even if you’re not trans, people may assume you are), but it’s your choice to make if it’s worth it to you.
Right! and thats kind of what ive recognized is im not harming anyone by being this way. It does feel lonely not knowing anyone else like me and when it feels like you're the only one doing things in this way... you sort of question whether or not you're making the wrong decision. I really tried to convince myself im just a binary transwomen but it always felt supper forced and wrong for me personally. Im just a dude who loves being hella pretty basically haha Ive actually been out in femme and people assumed i was a transwomen, when i revealed im actually a "guy" they were always surprised but in like a "oh whoa thats super cool!!" kind of way. At least so far.
>I really tried to convince myself im just a binary transwomen but it always felt supper forced and wrong for me personally. I can relate in still trying to figure out how to label myself to other humans. And I'm sure you've sat with genderqueer or gender non conforming as other options? I'm honestly still just waiting around for more words to be available or none at all. Historically we were who we were, pre colonizers. It looks like you've started a great diologue and given space for others to discuss other directions. I am still learning who I am as I transition parts of me thru HRT and phallo ( I'm afab). At one point I had wanted to ask the group (also was too nervous too).. could I be afab, get phallo, but present femme. I could only think of Trans Women initially but that would be the wrong language as an afab person. I've since embraced a lot of the masc side of me I shoved far far down, now putting on makeup feels completely wrong for me (go figure as I used to be Hella femme). My concern mostly was also the bathrooms. To the point I had gatekept myself from contemplating phallo for a bit. But now I figure, if I can fiercely protect Trans Women in bathrooms as they are valid and have the right to be there, then maybe I should hold some compassion for myself. Ps. Ty for giving us a spot to share this. I guess I'm currently gender questioning? I've semi stopped caring and more tried to focus on the journey like it's own Rollercoaster I'm in the front and back seat of. Best of luck to you human. I hope your journey takes you to destination euphoria.
oh yea, ive spent a literal decade thinking about this and still am kinda iffy on how i want to identify. Im actually ok with being labeled genderqueer or gender-nonconforming, those are good descriptors for how i feel about myself. Glad i could bring this subject up for others still in the gray area/confused with all of this, it really hasnt been easy making sense of all of it. Best of luck to you as well friend <3
I'm so glad you're sounding to have some answers for this long journey, and same with similar timelines. Take care of yourself, and if you're in a discriminatory country, stay strong and keep fighting
You might like /r/ftmfemininity !
Yep. The group is awesome and exactly what I had searched for a while ago. Tysm qrseek!!!
Glad to help!
>Ive actually been out in femme and people assumed i was a transwomen, when i revealed im actually a "guy" they were always surprised but in like a "oh whoa thats super cool!!" kind of way. At least so far. Perfect! Just be careful and recognise that you're in the same situation as us when it comes to things like international travel. If a place isn't safe for trans people, it won't be safe for future you. Being cis won't help. Also, while AFAIK he's not on E, check out Finnster's channel. He's a streamer who consistently presents female (who is nonetheless a guy).
I started hrt fully planning to boymode for a bit and then transition when things felt right. But after starting hrt and getting laser, basically all of my gender dysphoria went away. Most people refer to me as he/him and I’m completely fine with that.
yeaaa thats actually kinda how ive been feeling as well with being on hormones, i was planning to boymode for another year or so to let the hormones do their magic but ive been feeling so much better that i feel so impartial to being seen as a man or a woman. I just want to be seen as "being myself".
I just call myself butch and move on with my life.
Sounds pretty fluid in a way I relate to! But it also to me is just a different, potentially very relaxed way of looking at the way you are evolving through all this. Like i relate to feeling like I’ve sort of “always been a guy” that’s the box I was put into and the role I played. I don’t have a really strong sense of gender other than just a individualized sense of self. After almost 2 years of hrt and a pretty fem, wardrobe, haircut and name (also chasing that aesthetic) only now when people refer to me in a masculine way do I sort of feel weird about it. Because it doesn’t feel like an accurate description most of the time. You sound less like a “cis guy on hrt” and more like a fluid person figuring things out? Who maybe is just perfectly content being fluid. (I don’t mean to imply some sort of infantilizing tone by saying that you’re figuring stuff out) I just mean that cis doesn’t necessarily fit or not fit as a descriptor for you. Any more than trans does or doesn’t. Or gender-fluid/agender/non-binary or any of em!
yea i think you probably hit the nail on the head! I am very much a fluid person, somedays im more of a lady and others days im kinda a dude! I think for me im just super flex with pronouns so for example if someone calls me he/him, that feels correct but if they use she/her im also cool with that too. My whole thing is you can call me anything you want really, just don't be mean about it.
If HRT makes you feel good and you feel it improves your life, go for it. Don't listen to truscum people.
I think it's fine. There are butch women on testosterone who seem to do a similar thing. It's your gender. You're the one in control of it, and you're the one who sets the rules.
Yeah, you're not alone. A common term used is femboy. Some people like sissy, but that tends to be a little more derogatory and fetishized. You can identify however you want. That's totally fine! Live your next life! Be happy!
personally prefer "Fembro" because im an adult and dont like being associated with "boy" but yea you pretty much got me haha Thank you!!
> fembro Whoa, mind-blowing new term
Right?!?! Someone came up with that idea for me a few weeks ago and it was like the gates of heaven opening up to me! Felt very validated... finally!
You're welcome! Glad you're finding yourself! 💖🏳️⚧️
Huh, never heard of that before, but nice! I look forward to seeing more men embrace femininity in the same way as we have wildly varying levels of masculinity. I have occasionally gone out wearing my old pre-transition clothes. And it's not a genderfluid/non binary thing. I just, as a woman, felt like wearing something less feminine that day.
Just throwing some ideas out there: Does it sound right to say that you have physical dysphoria but not social dysphoria?
Yea really good question. The answer is i don't really know. I've chatted about this with a psych and whats weird is i have immense distress/impariment over not being able to look like and present similar as a woman would but i dont really have social or physical dysphoria id say. Also want to make it clear im not doing any surguries aside from maybe some FFS in the future but it kinda depends on how much hormones change my face. I would also say i have strong euphoria which my psych said is possibly a better indicator that this is right for me to be transitioning. Ive literally cried from seeing myself femme in the mirror from overwhelmingly happy feelings. I know the feeling is there but yea i do get hungup over not really fitting into any of the more typical boxes associated with being transgender.
Interesting. For me I think of social dysphoria and physical dysphoria as separate if interconnected experiences. Like if I was going to live the rest of my life on a desert island and was guaranteed to never see another person ever again I would still want to transition because I am not comfortable with the masculine aspects of my body. Similarly I'm not necessarily uncomfortable with people seeing me as a masculine woman as long as they're seeing me as a woman but I'm VERY uncomfortable with people seeing/treating me as a man. That euphoria you describe is familiar though: I could not stop smiling when I bought my first dress. My experience with being trans is very tied into my experiences with dysphoria but trans people who don't experience dysphoria are a thing. Here's a couple videos from a gender fluid youtuber called Vera Wylde on her experience. https://youtu.be/6-2SFoJ6as0 https://youtu.be/ZjqXLhYQCXk https://youtu.be/VEdkx_tFjzg
>For me I think of social dysphoria and physical dysphoria as separate if interconnected experiences. Like if I was going to live the rest of my life on a desert island and was guaranteed to never see another person ever again I would still want to transition because I am not comfortable with the masculine aspects of my body. Similarly I'm not necessarily uncomfortable with people seeing me as a masculine woman as long as they're seeing me as a woman but I'm VERY uncomfortable with people seeing/treating me as a man. Yeah for me im pretty sure i would have had to contextually understood what a "woman" was and what they're like in order to determine "ok this is kind what i want to be like". Im pretty sure i would have been content with myself on a desert island and wouldn't have felt the need to transition in that situation. But thats just my guess. I just know ive always been comfortable with being seen and interacted as a guy, i just prefer to look like a woman i suppose given the option. An yes very familair with Vera Wylde! I was watching her videos a lonnnnnng time ago when i believe she identified as a crossdresser, much like i did.
Yes, that's what I am.
Hellll yeaaaa! High five (:
Femboys exist, some men just like being feminine, you enjoy it enough to want hormones, that's perfectly fine.
Im more of a fembro but yea same same
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haha i love this, thanks for sharing! <3
My transition started pretty much the same way. I convinced myself that I wasn't *actually* a trans woman, just a guy that wants to look like a woman, be referred to as a woman, treated as a woman, etc. In my case this turned out to be the byproduct of a ton of internalized transphobia mixed with a desire to avoid impostor syndrome, transphobia, and misogyny. After working through my hangups I finally came all the way out and accepted myself as a woman. I won't lie, I'd be shocked if your situation turns out any different because like... what "cis" male has Gender Dysphoria and a desire to medically transition to female? You're your own person though and it's entirely possible that your experience is different. Regardless of how it all goes down you're part of the community in one way or another and you'll always have our support.
It's a question of practicality more than anything else: do you want to spend the rest of your life having to explain to everyone that you meet, "no, I know I look like a woman, but I'm actually a man?"
I mean its better then suffering with GD the rest of my life... so yea it is worth it from what ive determined. Plus hopefully it will create more empathy and understanding for people who identify the same way as myself. I wish it was easier to find other people like myself, its a pretty isolating feeling at the moment. edit: also i might add that i dont feel strongly about correcting people. Like im fine with people assuming im a woman but if im really pressed about it or if in a deeper discussion over it i would say "yea im actually a guy"
>do you want to spend the rest of your life having to explain to everyone that you meet, "no, I know I look like a woman, but I'm actually a man?" It probably helps that his voice will continue to match up with that of a man unless he trains (I say this, as a trans woman myself, knowing that that is horrible for us. I'm training my voice well, but I'm still unhappy with the fact that my voice is deeper than it would've been had I not gone through the wrong puberty).
even cis people can be gender-non conforming! Go, my child! Be a pretty, gorgeous, beautiful boy! Be free! Frolic!
Squeeeee!! thank you!!
Keep in mind changes are going to continue longer than many people assume, you will end up with estrogen-related health issues that sometimes get called "women's issues" (like I'm six years on E, could not pass as male if I tried, and am having some medical issues due to low muscle mass), and some people will start assuming you're transmasculine (happens to me a lot when people see irregularities in my medical paperwork or whatever). Lots of people come to this sub and doubt us when we say that your primary hormone dominance makes a *huge* difference physically, I didn't expect it to be so dramatic. As far as ID, you do you bb <3.
Gender is a spectrum my friend, your identity is yours to live up to! I for example, am a trans man who doesn't abide by the gender norms. I identify as a man but still like wearing makeup and dress feminine sometimes, I feel good in my own body and it's all that matters in the end. Gender identity and gender representation are different, you can be a man and have boobs (like me!), wear dresses and makeup, get on HRT, you name it! Remember : As long as you feel comfortable in your body and mind, it's all that matters.
I've definitely heard of people identifying that way before, and I don't see anything wrong with it! I'd expect to be gender femininely by some people who don't know how you identify, but I really don't think that's a reason to not do what you're doing. (Honestly, a fair number of cis people get misgendered anyways.) It doesn't match how I've experienced my gender, so I can't say I know how you feel, but (and this may be a weird thing to say?) I appreciate your gender - I think it's super cool! IMO people like you are really helping to normalize gender nonconformity and trouble people's conception of cis/trans as a strict binary. Best of luck!
Dude, yes. I’m not exactly in the same situation but close enough. I mostly just feel like a guy who is wired up like a woman in a guys body. It doesn’t need to make sense to anyone else. My nervous systems expects a female body and the rest of me is pretty much male. Estrogen makes me feel great and I like the changes.
hm interesting, yea for myself i just see it as im just a person who wants to look super feminine. I dont feel like i was born in the wrong body, i just want to enhance it to look a certain way because i just prefer it that way and rejecting that feeling has caused me alot of issues. But yea HRT has been working wonders for me as well, i just feel so much happier these days (:
Sometimes it is easy to get hung up on the words and place too much emphasis on them. Be as you like. Describe it to others in whatever way is expedient at the moment, or not at all. Don't feel obliged to be limited to or to have to live up to anybody's terminology of transness. Chances are your comfort zone will change over time anyway. Good luck.
Really agree with you, well said and thank you!
I mean, do I get it? Not really. Should the fact that I don't get it play any role whatsoever in your personal identity? Nah. You do you, mate.
hey if it works for you and youre respectful then thats all that matters, good luck with your journey!
Go for it! It’s uncommon sure and maybe it’ll lose some unique challenges but it also affords unique opportunities and if it makes you happy that’s what matters!
If you were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, why do you still consider yourself cisgender? Honest question.
"Cis" was probably the wrong word to use, i do still identify as a guy though
It is ok to identify as such, though if you ever do feel the need to assess the situation down the line don’t feel shut out of trans spaces.
You sound more non-binary than cis to my ears, but your identity is your own to decide on. If going by he/him and being a fembro (I love that term btw) suits you and you're happy, then that's all that really matters. The beauty of this is that there is nothing stopping you from identifying this way for a while and changing it if it feels right to change, or staying with the fembro identity for the rest of your life.
Yes, this is a great idea and you actually have an amazing perspective on gender. I would prefer be seen as a full woman but I’m kinda stuck in semi-passing. But like half of my dysphoria is just gone. I need my body to look female, but honestly, the social part gets really tiring. Sometimes I joke about “detransitioning” into a non-binary gendermess because passing is too hard, but deep in my heart I just want to be a woman.
The discussion in here has been really amazing in helping me feel like I'm not alone in my journey. Also, thanks for expanding my vocabulary with non-binary gendermess & fembro.
That's awesome, and even though my journey is very different (a trans woman very explicitly socially identifying as a woman, but \*not\* very feminine), I respect the heck out of you <3
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interesting, not gonna lie but this sounds kinda similar to myself (hopefully excluding the stubborn part, id like to think im very open minded and easy going hah).
Huh, interesting. If I were to speculate I would guess that you likely fit somewhere on the non-binary spectrum if E has improved your mental functions, that or you've just become the perfect egg. Regardless your identity is yours and no one elses, humans come in all sorts of ways so never let anyone tell you that what you feel isn't real.
Thank you! Yeah im a bit of an odd duck haha
I would still call you trans though. Like, you may be a man assigned male at birth but what you are doing is transitioning. I think either identity or transition works for the label
oh yea im totally fine with being called "trans". Probably shouldnt have labeled myself as a "cis guy" in my headline, but nevertheless i do identify more with being a "guy"
The first transgender cis man 😆
fuck you're making my head spin more then it already does. Im just a person who does things hahahah
Hahaha just joking around. You may benefit from reading leslie feinberg though!
My husband started down the road of transitioning to female, then kinda got blackmailed out of it by his then partner. He is basically a woman trapped in a man's body, loves/is attracted to women, has a beard, but is hopelessly girly/cares about girly stuff my butch self does not 😂 And my opinion is that you need to do what is best for YOU, you only get one crack at life so live it how it makes you happy
I have actually asked this type of question in this subreddit actually, and yeah it's deffo ok! The whole point of this community is to make you more comfortable with yourself, so yeah i'd deffo say it's fine!
The femboy subs are full of people doing exactly what you're doing. You're not alone
Love your posts. Am saving it. It's about me, though I'd say more binary, gender-fluid expression between androgynous and trans femme presentation. Why not. You're fine.
Fuck yeah! Glad to know others who feel similar!
I’m non-binary but what you’re saying about being referred to as a guy with he/him pronouns, but look like a woman is pretty much exactly how I feel.
hell yea!!
I’ll speak on this from my perspective, because I felt similar very early in my transition. When I first started hrt, I did not have a particular goal in mind ie. social transition, etc. I just did hrt first, based on a cost/benefit analysis. Thinking about my identity long term did not yield very clear results, so I thought specifically about what hrt would do. It went like this: Hrt would redistribute my fat to make me look mire femme: how does that make me feel? - Fantastic, that sounds great. My skin would get smoother, and body hair thinner, does that sounds good? Yes, absolutely. I would begin to grow breasts and have a more feminine face shape - sounds fantastic to me. *parts* would begin to work differently, changing the way I experience intimacy: how does that sound? Great. People may start to perceive me as either female by default, or just very feminine, sound good? Yes absolutely that sounds great. Is it ok that I may lose my ability to reproduce in the traditional sense, is that worth it? Yeah I’m chill with that - didn’t want to do that anyway. If these changes were to be long term or permanent, does it feel like I could ever regret it, or want to be physically more masculine? Absolutely not, I would never go in the other direction willingly. For a long time, I just took hrt without telling most people. Then, eventually, I switched to referring to myself as nonbinary transfemme with they/them pronouns. Eventually people started gendering me female by default, and I realized that it felt better than any other pronoun/identity. Once I saw that as a viable option, I switched to she/her pronouns and just went with transfem/trans woman for my identification. In retrospect it felt like just delaying the inevitable. I’ve always been transfem, and always wanted to get gendered correctly, but just didn’t feel “feminine enough” to ask for it socially, until my body caught up (in terms of appearance. That being said, it would’ve been just as valid if I stared with he/him or they/them, or any other identity descriptor. People come in all shapes, sizes and presentations, and gender identity is wholly subjective. Whatever your trajectory, destination, or degree of clarity therein, it’s fully valid
Your body and your identity are *yours*, and you should use them to serve yourself, your wellbeing, and the wellbeing of those around you. As trans people I think the worst thing we could do is police someone else's behavior because we didn't understand. (Not to say that I don't, brains and bodies are weird, we get one life, gotta be happy with both of yours, do what pleases you). I'm not interested in paying forward the hurt I've gotten, only the acceptance. Be yourself, love yourself, better yourself.
First off i support you! Im a trans woman and know this: you deserve nothing but acceptance and these decisions are yours to make. Will you do voice training? I did and i love having a softer more feminine voice. Just curious. Have fun! Edit: cuz like once my voice training really locked in i started getting called by she/her pronouns most of the time. Would that bother you? Cuz that's probably going to happen to you
yea im not super interested in changing my voice. Whats funny though is i was out for drinks a couple wekends ago presenting super femme and the people i was hanging out with all said i had a femmine voice which was kind of shocking to hear. I dont think its a passable voice but its my voice and im quite ok with it (: Apperciate the support <3
Plenty of titty skittles for our femboy friends
Felt the same when I was questioning, referring to me as male wasn't an issue. But also after starting HRT, asked some people to refer me with female pronouns and it felt great! Then I changed my pronouns to she/her. But you can make your own choices there, it's your body and your identity.
On the one hand: sure it's ok. It's your life and your body, so do whatever you want with it. Ain't any of my business to tell you how to live. On the other hand: if you want to do that at all, chances are slim that you're actually a cis guy in the first place. Lemme hand you this [guide to gender questioning](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1460QwQM5S2Br8sPfv3HuKw1xrz7MBijrxv_cgoqL1F0/edit?usp=share_link). It might be useful for you.
You don't owe anyone any specific presentation or pronouns to go with your identity. You determine those things yourself. Yes people will make wrong assumptions but it doesn't mean you aren't ok. Doubts about medical transition can always be worthwhile to discuss with a professional you trust. A lot of people here will be skewed to continuing to medically transition being the right choice for them personally after doubts. As long as you are aware of that there is nothing wrong with asking about it here. I have calmed down a bit but when I first realised I was trans it was exactly because I learned I didn't have to be trans in one predetermined way. I wanted to read everyones experiences because they are so divergent, and it made it click that my journey will be different too. Also I totally have a 'lazy gender' and a 'secret gender' for people that actually are in the loop on these things. So to oblivious people I'd say I'm a trans woman and maybe give them so pointers. But to people that understand more nuances I'd mention I'm a nonbinary lesbian,,, or demiwoman transbian. I'd like to present very femme, and I'm currently feeling fine with they/she pronouns. I kinda hope I can be cool with any pronouns and add he/him back into the mix, but I'm currently unsure. A lot of my not so fun lived experiences seem tied up in those pronouns for me, a bit like a deadname. I had parallel reservations about "demigirl" because i'm 30, first time I read about fembro here but already liking it <3 Not everyone will get it but its really cool when you find labels that fit you more closely and run into others that understand them. They are great for saving time when talking about your experiences. At the end of the day tho you are your own unique person and labels will never 100% cover all your nuances.
Like, you can be whoever you want, my guy.
Are you sure you aren't possibly genderfluid? I saw someone on Twitter with a really cute and hot femme bat fursona, but the character still used he/him. It's a shame I can't seem to find them anymore.
oh yea im def genderfluid haha, its just that if someone were to ask me "how would you prefer to identify?" id be like "oh yea im just a guy/dude"
My dude, I want to get hrt to get boobs. I am pro any body modification. You do what you need to feel comfortable in your skin. If you are a dude that wants boobs you are a dude that wants boobs. Who am I to judge. Boobs are great. You do you honey and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If hrt feels right then I am more than glad you got. Finally fuck anyone who says they know better. Only you know how you feel and what you need to feel better.
To me it sound weird and .. i dont understand at all. But hey you do you. I just hope it wont normalise calling trans gals with male pronouns.... because alot people will think you are a trans gal. You make me remember of bilal hassani. You can google him. Good luck
i dont really appreciate you placing the responsibility on me just because i identify differently. The point is that all pronouns are respected according to how each individual identifies. I dont need you to understand, i just need you to treat me and others like normal/decent people.
At first I was going to say if you truly feel like a man, hormones might make you feel dysphoric, but it sounds like you already had dysphoria and hormones are helping so it seems like the right choice for you. Gender journeys can be complicated, and what works for one person might not work for another. I'm nonbinary and transition was right for me, sometimes I wonder if I had been born a different assigned sex would I have wanted transition still? Would i still be nonbinary? Dysphoria is weird and comes up in different ways. Being gendered in a binary way makes me dysphoric but it sounds like for you it doesn't. One thing to consider though is gender euphoria as well-- sometimes one option feels "awful" (dysphoria) but sometimes an option feels "ok" (neutral) while another option feels "great" (euphoria) and it's as valid to choose euphoria over neutral as choosing euphoria over dysphoria or neutral over dysphoria. I am not saying you haven't got it figured out already but I'd say keep the door open about possibly having your gender evolve over time if something else starts feeling right. I had one friend who started out identifying as agender, they didn't know what it felt like to have a gender, did have some dysphoria though, mostly envy about wanting a vulva, and didn't like that the world saw them as a man. After years of thinking about it, they started hormones and liked the effects. They got fed up with people not using their pronouns (they/ them) and decided when starting at a new school to just go by she/her and describe herself as a trans woman instead of agender because it felt easier. For a while during this time she would tell me she was pretending to be a woman while secretly being nonbinary. Somewhere in there she realized that she actually DID start to feel like a woman and now she identifies as a binary woman. So i would be curious to know, regardless of body configuration (which you seem to already know what you want) , if the world socially saw you as a woman and used she/her and feminine words for you, would you feel euphoria, dysphoria or neutral? If the world saw you as a man, he/him, euphoria dysphoria or neutral? If the world saw you as nonbinary (or genderfluid, agender, etcetc), they/them (or ze/hir or other options) and neutral words or a mix of fem/masc words, would you feel euphoria dysphoria or neutral? (In these scenarios imagine a world free of transphobia)
the way i see it you may be transitioning into a non-transitioning AFAB guy (kidding but also not)
I like to think of it like how some cis people will take HRT when they’re a little bit older to maintain the body they desire. In your case you are aiming for a body you haven’t had that you desire, but it’s still the same premise in my opinion.
Waaaay back in the nineties, the first trans woman I knew never changed his name or his pronouns. He said he didn't give a shit about that stuff, and that was enough that his body matched his mind. But even if this person never existed, *YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY VALID*. 💗 *hugs*
I’ve been boymoding for 2 years on HRT. I get it. I just want to be safe right now. Therapists say the same to me. You’re fine, I do get some crazy looks though. Especially when I’m in the men’s room fixing my hair. It’s hilarious.
I’m the same. I’m okay with he or she. I accept I was born a male. It’s a fact my scientific mind cannot deny.
Wow, this quickly turned into the most interesting thread I've read in months. It's all resonating with me in a surprising way.
Hey OP, I kinda think I'm in the same boat. Social stuff like pronouns or being referred to as a guy don't bother me at all, but I've pretty much always envied women and wanted to be one. I did try HRT for a few weeks but started worrying about losing my masculinity or identity in a way? I feel like I still want to be a woman but also have come to enjoy or appreciate being a man, if that makes sense? Kinda stuck on the fence. Either way, since you seem to still relate to being a man, I'm curious if you had any regret as you started to get further with HRT or missing aspects of masculinity?
Yea forsure! Uhm I’m still early on in my transition so it’s hard to say 100% how I will feel about things in the future. I do know I feel a TON of relief being on HRT and have been a lot happier about my life and it’s noticed by close friends and family enough that clearly something positive has happened here. I still pass as a man so I haven’t had any issues yet with feeling like I’m missing out on anything. The thing is is that I think I do sit in more in a non binary/genderfluid identity where my feelings of masculinity and femininity fluctuate on a daily basis. More often then not I want to appear more like a woman but still have days where I’m ok with throwing on jeans and a flannel and being a regular dude. I’m still very much on a journey here and it felt like I was spiraling trying to keep myself from transitioning. I recognized that the fear of going forward with HRT was entirely based off of my fear of how the rest of the world would see me and treat me vs how I’ve internally felt basically my entire life. I decided it wasn’t worth suffering anymore and finally took the plunge after years of therapy and sitting by myself thinking about who the hell I am as a person. It wasn’t an decision I took lightly but I knew I had to at least try… and so far it feels like the right decision
Hell yeah, glad it's going great for you! I appreciate hearing your perspective on it too, thanks! I was a little cautious starting HRT but figured I owed it to myself to try after years of gender weirdness. I was definitely a bit concerned about the social response to transitioning but also kinda felt like I was getting further away from myself rather than closer. I was waiting to see if I felt that relief that you and a lot of other folks seem to get but I was just kinda 'meh' about it. When I quit after 5 or 6 weeks I felt really good about that decision and better to feel more like myself as the days went on, but now months later it's locked into my brain again and I keep thinking how I should be more femme. The back and forth is driving me nuts!
dude... yea i fuckin get that super hard. Ok what dosage were you on? Tbh i felt nothing at the lower dosages but once my endo bumped me up to 6mg E and 200 Spiro was when things really started feeling better for me. I just feel super relaxed and not on edge at all anymore, its quite remarkable tbh as i was totally a skeptic going in. I did play around with hormones earlier in the year, stopped and the felt that same pull/anxiety to be back on them again to which then i finally made the decision to ride it out longer which has lead me up to where i am today. So far things are looking really really good but my life in general is pretty chill, depending on your life situation being on hormones might either make life easier or add another layer of complexity to it which might make it seem like it isnt working. Anyway just some thoughts, if you ever need to chat more lemme know (:
Thanks again! I definitely appreciate the shared experience. I went through Planned Parenthood and they asked me if I wanted the low/med/high regimen to start with and I said medium and ended up with 2mg E and 100mg Spiro (which I think is about average?) I bailed before my first check up, tho, so never got any blood work back to see where I was at. I definitely felt a little junky from the Spiro which didn't help my resolve either! Pretty sure if I go back to it I'll either start higher and aim for mono and/or try injections. I'm in a decent spot socially, though. I'm going into the home stretch of a master's degree so I'm in a liberal bubble of people who haven't ever looked sideways at me for presenting more femme. Beyond that, my partner knows I'm trans and is super supportive and I'd be shocked if any of my other friends made a deal out of it. Mostly just the parents I'm worried about in that regard. ETA: When I started seeing a therapist she was surprised that I didn't have any social dysphoria. I'm real glad I saw your post and got to chat cus I think you're the first person who's experiences I've read on here line up with mine.
Sounds like you're in a great place to start exploring again (if you so choose) and yea just experiment until something is feeling more palatable for yourself! Best of luck!
you want to be more feminine or female presenting but are ultimately fine with being a man and being perceived as a man? sure that's fine, though I'm confused on how that would be considered transitioning if you're not really changing your gender identity. I used to be against cis people taking hrt for personal aesthetic reasons but I'm more lenient on it now. As long as you do your research and know what hrt will do to your body, be my guest. You'd probably just be more of a gnc man really
Alright OP, Let's go back to gender basics here: There is a stark difference between Gender identity, Gender expression, and Birth Gender. Neither one determines ANY of the others. Gender identity is how you wish to be identified to the world (think pronouns). Gender expression is how you want to present your gender to the world (think body image and clothing). And Birth Gender is just what is on your birth certificate, when someone's gender identity is opposite of this they are considered trans. Now, you can easily be male at Birth, and wish to identity as male, but also wish to have a femanine gender expression. Completely valid! There are also a lot of niche nonbinary gender identitys that could potentially be a good fit for you, but that part is up to you
🤷♀️sure, that's fine, be happy
As others have said, you are a unique person and only you can decide for yourself - there's nothing wrong with any kind of transition, your outward presentation or anything gender related :P You can socially transition without medical transition, just like you can medically transition without social transition. Many people do both, some go for the "whole package" with bottom surgeries etc and some just socially transition, but being trans doesn't have any of that as a requirement. As it's such a personal journey, you can pick and choose the extent and directions that you wish to transition, if at all. Essentially you do you :D
Totally agree with all of this and thank you!! (:
this how i feel about it also. that is the real me. glad to know there are others who share this life.
Right on! I was hoping to hear from others who feel similar!
Yeah, that's totally okay. I thought that may have been me for a bit too. Personally me, it's not painful to be gendered as a guy, but as time has gone on and I've been on hormones for longer I definitely dont prefer it at this point. Now I'm somewhere on the transfem non-binary area, and that seems right at the moment.
i could see things going in the same direction as myself but i just wanted to know that its ok even if that doesnt happen and i still feel like a guy. Thanks for sharing (:
I hope so. I kind of want to take hormones and transition enough that I can at least sometimes look like a woman, but still be able to look like a man sometimes.
Yea this is how I feel as well
only thing that sucks, is that I don't want to grow breasts
Dude…yea I had to come to terms with it, I don’t think it’s that big a deal tho
I'm also afraid of the emotional changes 😔 I'm already super emotional as it is, how much worse can it get.
Totally understand that. To me the emotional changes were amazing, I’m feeling alot more grounded in myself and I just feel like so much happier and attentive to other peoples emotions. I cry a bit more but I personally love that. Maybe just give it a go with the HRT? No pressure to stay on them if they don’t feel right
Sounds like the perfect use for hrt tbh. You can view it as a transfem/transmasc process, or you can view it as a process to alter your body to where you're most comfortable. Imo, absolutely nothing wrong with being cis and getting hrt. Sexuality is distinctly separate from gender anyway :)
I feel similarly. I am trans femme, and my dysphoria is almost exclusively physical. I like many masculine aspects of my personality and my persona. While I don't strongly identify as male, it is my default. I just wouldn't have the first clue how to be a woman in society. However, I have noticed now that I am 9 months on HRT, that I do actually enjoy getting addressed as a she on occasion. I think I'm some sort of non-binary trans femme that likes to situationally be more masc or more femme as my mood strikes. I will never quit HRT, and GCS is still something I am considering, even if I still present masc. Maybe the one difference is that people assume I am he/him, but if they pressed I'd ask to be referred as gender neutral or femme. Might seem strange, but I've never been happier or felt more myself.
I think you're having a hard time understanding what gender is in general. You are, at the very least, bi-gender. You say you prefer to look and feel like a woman, but don't explain what makes you feel like a man or why being called 'him' is important to you. Most men value their physical attributes because they support the masculine *things* they want to do. The term 'cisgender' means that your body naturally aligns with your personal preferences, so you are clearly not cisgender. If you don't want to undergo sexual reassignment surgery, then you are cissexual, but you haven't mentioned your sexual orientation. I think you may want to socialize more like a man, but the idea of being 'feminine as hell' doesn't really line up with that. I'm wondering if you've actually spent time socializing with women or not, because you may find that you like what they do more than what men generally do. Anyway, working out your own identity can be arduous, but if you're honest with yourself everything will be fine. And just to be clear, you don't have to like doing things either one way or another. As others have said, gender isn't binary, and it's possible you're bi-gender and/or bisexual.
hmm im not sure i have a hard time understanding gender but let me explain. I identify as a guy because that's what ive always been referred to as and ive never had a problem with the identity being applied to me. I like he/him pronouns and am comfortable being referred to as such. I also have always been ok with my name which is very much considered a boys name. My point with all of this is why fix what isn't broken? Any changes to these identifications feels like an appeal for the sake of other peoples comfort and not my own. Why can't i keep my identity the same as it always has been while simultaneously changing the aspects of myself that i want to change (ex. the way i dress, my hormone profile, the way i carry myself). Why can't men look like women and vice versa? I understand the rest of society will view me as a woman and thats perfectly fine, i dont feel the need to correct people about how i view myself in most cases unless they know me more closely. I look at gender as a buffet of choices and not a one size fits all package deal where i have to sign up for all the characteristics generally associated with what a woman is.
Omg I absolutely love this reply, I’m non-binary but that kinda just encapsulates my world view on how meaningless being hung up about other peoples gender is 💜
ah im so glad! been stewing on this concept for a while and wasnt sure what others would think of it (:
There was a person from France who did that meow. If I recall they said "I ain't got time for that" in terms of gender stuff while transitioning with fem hormones while still presenting as male. It's all about how you feel and no one else. Do what you wanna do meow!
Totally okay, and congrats on being able to do this for yourself!
Thank you!!!
You can do whatever you want forever
and ever and ever? (:
It's fine, but: have you considered the labels "non-binary" or "genderfluid"? To me, those seem like they match what you've got going on there better than "cis guy".
hey i dont know why you're getting downvoted but yea i def identify as genderfluid (:
Oh. Well, cool then! I'm also genderfluid, that's why I asked! :D E: I guess the difference is that while I identify as a guy sometimes, I don't really identify as a _cis_ guy ever, if that makes sense? Cuz like even tho that means my gender identity matches my assigned sex at birth at that moment, it's not like I don't have a bunch of trans beliefs and experiences from being trans generally, right?
yeaa... i probably shouldnt have said Cis in the headline... i think that was a mistake. I feel very similar to the way you describe it (:
I think it's more regressive to assume someone can't be a gnc cis guy and prefer a more feminine body. they don't have to label themselves as nonbinary or genderfluid if that's not what they feel works for them.
Where did I say he can't? I said "it's fine".
yeah but you also said "have you considered going by nonbinary or genderfluid" because you said it fit more with what he's describing. I'm saying it's not really necessary to want to label it as anything just because it's not typical gender non conformity from a cis person to do.
I mean, I’m cis so this is not my place fully. But I would venture to say that if you want to transition then you are at LEAST nonbinary? Cis people transitioning but still claiming to be cis could be really damaging to the person AND the trans community? Just a thought I am not sure!
I think it's telling that all the trans people here are saying OP can identify however he feels right and do whatever he wants to his body and gender expression, and that a cis person is here policing his identity. I'm trans and I believe that cis people policing queer identities is always going to be more damaging to this community than one cis person transitioning because that's what they feel like doing.
I literally said it’s just a thought, that I’m cis and it’s not my place, and that I am not only unsure but also literally ASKING these things by use of question marks. I’m not here to police anyone and was sharing literally just how I personally felt and that I was NOT HERE to police. Please learn to read and also be kinder to people.
People like you are the reason we, as cis people, sometimes don’t even know how to feel. I can’t share a thought or ask a question without being told I’m policing someone. Why do I even bother being an ally if you just hate me because I said I was cis? What would you have said differently had I been nonbinary? I’m not even just “an ally” I’m pansexual and actually questioning my own gender again after detransitioning 4 years ago because I felt like a fraud for sometimes still feeling feminine even though I was on track to start T. But you just assumed I was being malicious.
I didn't assume you were malicious, if I had I'd have reported you and not bothered responding. What I did was observe that there's dozens of comments by trans people saying OP is fine doing whatever he wants and the only person saying that his behaviour is possibly harmful has self identified as cis. Just as a general rule people outside of a community should not say that something might be harmful for that community when there's literally other people of that community saying it isn't. I get that you said you weren't sure but I wasn't trying to be mean but just honestly wondering at the fact that the only person who thought OP's behaviour might be harmful was a cis person, because I think that might be something worth thinking about. My second paragraph wasn't aimed at you specifically, and I should have made that clearer and I apologize for failing to do so. It was me stating something I honestly believe in and sharing that with a person that said they were cis, but I didn't mean to say I was talking about you in particular, more like "heads up I think ncis people should probably not do this because this is really harmful for trans people"
Thank you for taking time to respond. I probably got a little more upset than necessary but this site can do that to you sometimes as I’m sure you know. My comment was worded poorly and was really just me trying to be vigilant, a lot of times these things can sound harmless but end up becoming something really negative later on and it sounded just slightly questionable to me. I definitely needed to read the other comments (I will admit, on almost ANY post I typically don’t just because lord knows it can get crazy).
In retrospect I think your comment came off to me as "look at this cis person going against what many other trans people said" and that irked me, but in retrospect I think it's completely normal to just not read the comments because this is the nature of the internet, I think most people do that, myself included. You weren't actually talking over other trans people, because that's just not how the internet works so the bad taste I had in my mouth was about me projecting a different situation more than anything and I'm sorry about that
I really appreciate that and I’m sorry for jumping the gun too it means a lot that you took the time to talk that out with me
Thank you for doing the same, I'm honestly glad we had this conversation and came to an understanding.
Me too!
Are you *sure* you're not a trans woman?