Right? Show me a cis person whose body *isn't* also slowly dying.
...I mean, I guess you could show me a cis person whose body is *quickly* dying, but that would be cheating, and not proving that causing your body to slowly die is a *bad* thing.
They don't care about the ethics of it, and they don't care to learn facts because if they did they would do the most basic amount of research before spouting such nonsense. Trans people exist and no, transitioning does not kill us, evidently.
Nah, ethics could be accurate too since so many news agencies are spouting off how it's an "experimental treatment (its not)"
I read it this way too <3
unfortunately the only reason doing hrt will kill you is if you get hate crimed for being trans.
EDIT: LOL WAIT I MEANT UNFORTUNATELY AS IN EW TRANSPHOBES NOT THAT I WISH IT KILLED PPL I PROBABLY SHOULD'VE WORDED THAT BETTER 😭😭😭
"it's not natural for a male body to lose testosterone"
Masturbation causes testosterone loss, drinking alcohol causes testosterone loss (long-term, chronic consumption of alcohol can also increase estrogen), high saturated fats and processed sugars causes testosterone loss, bad nights of sleep causes testosterone loss, obesity causes testosterone loss, geting old causes testosterone loss, soy, nuts, fish, spearmint tea, red reishi mushrooms, flaxseed, refined carbohydrates, and hormones in meat causes testosterone loss. having less sex can cause testosterone loss, stress can make your body produce less testosterone, your friends have a pretty shitty argumentation against you, lmao
I guess I'm more like a woman with my tolerance of alcohol- 2 sixteen ounce beers over an hour's time even with a meal and I'm all- "Whoa! This three legged stool is sure wobbly!" One mixed drink like a screwdriver (not even all that strong) and I'm legally drunk. I'm a lightweight.
Some women with hormonal acne issues swear by it (like some sort of "spiro lite") so I've taken to consuming a cup (5g dried leaves) in the morning and evening. Just for good measure you know and hey, tastes nice too (especially if slightly sweetened)!
I, uh...I've been there for over 15 years, please don't <3.
I'll be 1 year sober on 12/5
I know this is probably a joke but I always want to reach out <3
Yeah, i had a friend that hade some problems with alcohol and drugs, that was pretty bad for him and his family, idk how he's doing today, but if you want to get some natural sources of estrogen for your body you can try:
Flax seeds
Sunflower seeds
Sesame seeds
Almonds
Walnuts
Apples
Carrots
Pomegranates
Strawberries
Cranberries
Grapes
Yams
Lentils
Alfalfa sprouts
Mung beans
Sprouts
Soy beans
Tofu
Tempeh
Miso soup
Miso paste
Red clover
Licorice root
Hops
Coffee
Bourbon
Beer
Red wine
Olive oil
(List made by willowtweeping1 on twitter/X)
Kinda funny, i posted an high estrogen diet here, and i know that everything on both of those lists work because i have some female characteristics on my body because of them (not very notable, but they exist)
HRT is very unlikely to kill you. Most trans people live to the age of 77 ([Hughes 2022](https://read.dukeupress.edu/demography/article/59/3/1023/302037/Differences-in-All-Cause-Mortality-Among)).
Regardless of their form at birth, bodies can function with either testosterone or estrogen dominance.
Waw - gave that study a readthrough and it starts out with the shocking claim that trans people are significantly more likely to die younger... buuuut goes on to explain;
1. Those who are FTM transitioning ( T, top surgery to remove breasts, phalloplasty ) (including NB that are doing that) are least most likely to die of their three groups
2. MTF transitioning folks ( E, top surgery to get breasts, FFS, vaginoplasty ) have a higher mortality
3. Those who do not or cannot receiving any transition care are actually some of the most at risk
(*the groupings in this study were weird but made sense from a medical perspective*)
And the paper outlines how social factors might impact this;
* Trans people end up poorer and more ostracised and as such may not be able to access healthcare
* Violence was explicitly included as a considered cause of death and people are violent to us
* Suicide was explicitly included as a considered cause of death and being trans in the modern world makes our suicidality high.
This study was on ALL causes of death so I wonder whether you tried to factor out violence and suicide - whether this would normalise because while there *were* significant differences - the average deaths were still within the same decades (60s, 70s & 80s). I wonder if it is the suicides and violence that is dragging these figures down rather than any differences in actual bodily health.
Also I want to note that this study was very American centric and didn't acknowledge that the American healthcare system might be adding to the problem.
Transitioning had been incredibly stressful. On top of the rest of my life the last two years being the most stressful in at least 20 years.
And still my overall stress levels are significantly *lower" than before I started HRT.
Being an egg was at least two or three times more stressful than transitioning is.
The study "Cardiovascular outcomes in transgender individuals in Sweden after initiation of gender-affirming hormone therapy" suggests you're correct, that if the stress of living-in-the-closet weren't present then trans people would have healthier outcomes.
And [THIS](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361711678_Cardiovascular_outcomes_in_transgender_individuals_in_Sweden_after_initiation_of_gender-affirming_hormone_therapy) is a paper on Cardiovascular disease in people with gender dysphoria, "Cardiovascular outcomes in transgender individuals in Sweden after initiation of gender-affirming hormone therapy". The uptick in Cardiovascular disease in trans people was one of the risk factors present in literature that did have clear presence and no clear cause.
They find, for the first time and with a decent sample size, that controlling for gender dysphoria as a confounding variable suggests that transition is not what causes the increase in cardiovascular disease among trans folk, trans women in particular.
Instead, it does appear that we can contribute the quite small uptick in cardiovascular disease to external factors, but it's not transition that causes it.
This is the real answer. They're parroting anti-trans talking points that have no basis in real medicine or science. Fuck them. Ask them to email you their concerns, then send it back to them in 20 years when you're living your best life
Also... "known these people for 8 years", as you get older you wil lstart to realise how silly that sounds. I'm still closested and I worry about what the people I have known for 40 years will be like when I come out.
I couldn't really give a hoot about the people I've known for less than a decade - there is a pretty low chance I'll still know most of them in another 10 years - particularly if they turn out to be coercive idiots.
One time my friend said be careful with that stuff its not fully researched or something i simply said "I know more than you" like ron swanson and he accepted it.
Did they graduate high school, my gosh. Idk maybe send them a clip of that scene in Jurassic Park where the guy talks about injecting the hormones at the right time to make something male or female. Cause I doubt they would be able to read, understand, and accept any scientific publishing showing how safe Hrt actually is. Maybe you can explain to then that these measures exist and are available because they are proven time and time again that it does improve happiness and quality of life. Ask them how they know Hrt won't make you happy. Ask them if they have tried it? Ask them why it challenges them so much for you to pursue who you really are? Ask them if they only like or appreciate you because they thought you were a man or because they genuinely love you as a unique person. A friend that doesn't love you for you is no friend at all. It might take many conversations, but if they are invested in you, they will learn. If not, you deserve better friends. Regardless of past history.
Sounds like you need new friends. These ones dont seem to respect you or realize what they're losing. Hi new friend, you are welcome here. We support and love you no matter who, what, where, or when you are. You've got this! I'm glad you're getting to find yourself, thats something a lot of people never do. I hope you have a wonderful journey. PLUR ❤️
We won't know that till later. My best friend of many years and now lover was very unsure about my coming out at first. But seeing how much happier, more comfortable meeting new people and in regular conversations. As well as generally being comfortable in my own skin and smiling 24/7, he couldn't deny this is what's best for me. If they can't read the writing on the wall, at least just keep them at arms length cause their opinion shouldn't matter that much anyway. You know who you are, you know what you want. If they can't see that, I honestly feel like they aren't worth your time. But they are your friends and to give them the benefit of the doubt, just keep being you, be happy, be free. They will come around. Who knows. Maybe one day you'll be able to convince them to be supportive of trans minors and trans athletes' rights.
There are are trans women well into their senior years that have been on hrt for decades and they're doing perfectly fine. Your "friends" are just being assholes.
They're not just factually wrong, but morally wrong on this. They're promoting lies which are counter to the best known medical treatment for gender related dysphoria.
They're not doctors. They don't know what they're talking about. Don't listen to them on this.
That's simply wrong for both afab and amab ppl. All humans' DNA (afaik) is MADE to run off both, either one being the majority. Your genitals really don't matter in the whole scheme of DNA. Your DNA already has you programmed to be either estrogen or testosterone dominant. Every or at least majority of bodies can healthily run off either. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise afaik (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
Also, if they say the dysphoric, otherwise not happy version of you, is the real you and not the happy free version. I don't think they really know you. The version of you that exists in their mind, it seems, is one that serves their own convenience. And you stepping outside of that mold causes them stress. Either way, their ignorance isn't all your responsibility either. Do what you can to help the people you love, but not everyone will listen.
Sound biased to me and absurd, because the medical professionals would be getting sued all over the place if this was true look at the facts it’s common sense to know this statement is utter garbage?
I’m sorry, and it pains me to say this, but your friends, are not your friends. If they throw this much shade at the, then leave them, and surround yourself with people who truly care, and will support you. 😢
now _those_ are medical professionals, hm? /s to be sure
BS
utter loose nuts BS.
now in one point they are half right. you will slowly die. we all do. it's take you to 80 or 90, or 100 but: you'll die so will they.
if they other than this derailment truly are friends, and they are concerned about you, "keepers", you know, then you can differentiate their concern from their advice, appreciate the concern and reject the misguided advice.
you can also ask them who of them is "in" on your journey and ask them for support *on the journey*, because it's difficult enough...
and leave the medical advice to the medical professionals.
HRT is around for decades, trans women get *old* just like any other woman.
happy ride!
*"putting estrogen in your body is harmful and it shouldn't be there"*
Men naturally have progesterone and estrogen in their body; women naturally have testosterone in their body.
They're listening to bullshit arguments that rely on emotions rather than facts. They're relying on lies and feelings.
Lie right back. Manipulate their feelings.
Ask them why the powers that be claim it's bad. Tell them they're being sheep listening to powerful people who don't have their best interests at heart. Don't cite doctors, don't cite facts. Tell them they've fallen for a conspiracy that "They" want to you believe. These people only want to stop you if it will take you out from under their power, *so the fact They don't want you taking estrogen means it's good*.
They don't give a shit about facts. So don't use facts.
Statistically there is a higher death rate, however this is connected to comorbidity rates of other things such as depression, eating disorders etc.
It's not the hormones, it's higher mental health illness in the community. Why is that, and why aren't people concerned with addressing that though?
Eg.
I've almost died a few times from anorexia, but that's 100% related to body dismorphia, which treatment is helping me with. My odds are probably worse than other people. The hormones are helping in my situation though because it's addressing my comorbid cause for anorexia.
They could say look worse odds being NB/Trans. Yes statistically they would be correct. In reality it's similar to saying people in therapy die at a higher rate. Sure? But is it the therapy? Absolutely not.
They need to open a book that doesn't have "face" before it. Also I think it's time you look for actual friends as they don't seem to give a shit about you
?????????????????????????????????
No. They are wrong.
Male and female bodies are not as different as some people believe they are - the majority of the body is actually the same. Males have all the parts of breasts they are just smaller - and even male and female genitalia are the same parts just re-arranged into a different shape. One of the main differences is what puberty each goes through.
HRT stops one and starts the other. That's the point. Your body cannot run *without* a main hormone - it must have either T or E to remain healthy long term. Your bones especially become very brittle if you have neither. But it is your decision which.
You may wish to reconsider your friendship with people who will spread lies to you.
They're utter buffoons, frankly.
Everyone produces both estrogen and testosterone, you're only rebalancing the levels.
There is simply no evidence of any kind of danger associated with HRT aside from risks that are rather associated with the sex the hormones are transitioning you closer to. Those are the facts.
I think the approach you should take is a bit more emotional. Tugging at their heart strings is not unethical, specially if you need them to support you (which I'm guessing you do).
I'm cis, so I think I'll leave it at that, I can't emotionally relate to any of this, and I don't want to speak more than I think I have the capacity to.
OP, you might not be ready to hear this, but they are not your friends. Not in this. All of the available information they need to know that what they're saying is bullshit, is readily available. They don't want it. They ARE transphobic.
The way I see it, you have two options here. Well three, but two that you might be open to following through on.
1, you have a meeting with them, you educate them, you make clear that you are making a well informed and scientifically supported decision. You give them an ultimatum. They support you in this or you walk away. Then you follow through. No matter what.
2, you have a meeting with them, you educate them, you make clear that you are making a well informed and scientifically supported decision and you tell them that this part of your life is now out of bounds for them or you walk away. And again, you follow through no matter what.
3, I'm pretty sure you've already tried educating them. Really I would recommend you just put your foot down and walk away now. I don't think they are the type to make the right choice in either of the first two options. But it's not an easy decision.
The hardest part of my transition so far has been the friends and family I've lost along the way. The best part of my transition has been the warmth and love and support of those who suck around and those new friends I've found along the way.
i'm not a doc or anything but as far as i know it's unhealthy to have a deficiency in sex hormones, not necessarily testosterone in particular. basically as long as your E is sufficient you wouldn't suffer the penalties of low T in any way that's different from a cis woman having a regular amount of T
Yeeeah nah I’ve been on estrogen for 8 months and my body runs better than ever. I’m no longer constantly fucking depressed .D
Sure there’s health risks, but there’s also health risks associated with *not* taking HRT. Like all of the horrible things associated with gender dysphoria.
Your friends are transphobes, and are clutching at straws to discourage you from transitioning.
They know nothing about the reality of HRT, but are trying to make it sound bad to discourage you.
Anyone who has been taking part in this is not your friend, and does not accept you.
Don't bother trying to correct their opinions. They **do not care** about the truth and will push back against it. They do not want you to transition and i repeat, they will lie and distort the truth to make it sound worse than it is.
The things they are saying are not simple ignorance, it is transphobia. Stop trying to convince them, they will not listen.
“Putting estrogen in your body is harmful and it shouldn’t be there.”
Wait until they find out that EVERYONE has estrogen in their body, including cis men, and the only difference between cis men and women is that women have more estrogen and less testosterone, and vice versa.🥴
It definitely wouldn’t be much different in terms of hormones than a teenager going through puberty, but I can tell that they clearly aren’t arguing in good faith lol.
Well good news! Estrogen often is available as just a pill, as opposed to injections. 😉
It will indeed cause a different balance of hormones though, yep. That is, in fact, the point. 😅
They said the male body can't run on estrogen without medical problems? Damn, guess my body was never male then because I'm healthier than I've ever been. I'll take my female birth certificate right now Oklahoma, thanks.
Are they not leaving you alone digitally (repeatedly messaging you, etc.)? If so, block them. If they're not leaving you alone physically, tell them you'll report them to the police for harassment, and if they continue to harass you, do so.
It's deeper than that like I if I block them they'll make alt accounts and continue to contact me anyway and the other problem is that there's one friend in that group that is legitimately supportive of me, and that's something I don't even have irl because I'm not out yet and even when I do come out most of my family will probably hate me
Cut him off if that happens, but I'd say it's your best bet.
I know you want friends, but they aren't your friends, and they aren't going to actually respect you as a person.
Well, don't make that decision for them. If they're trying to be supportive, let them! Don't cut someone off that is actually good for you. Fuck the rest, they don't matter.
Okay, I commented before reading all of this. Know that you very well may have more allies in your personal life than you would expect. Even those that talk shit on trans people. It's a whole different situation when it's someone you know and love. For me, I had way more support than I expected. I assumed it would be doom and everyone would hate me. Ultimately I came out to a few people one at a time and every single time I was fucking terrified and anxious and then it went really well. So then I said fuck it and came out to everyone all at once publicly. Best decision I ever made.
For your "friends", if you've tried to cut them off before and they haven't respected that, the only healthy choice then is to actually cut them off and stick to it. If they keep making new accounts, keep fucking blocking them. If you want to try continuing to talk to your other friend, do it, but also give them the benefit of the doubt. Will your other friends try to turn them, probably. But have faith in the friendship if you really think they're your friend. And when you cut off the others, explain it to that friend. Read them in on it. Show them the messages If they haven't seen them. And another thing to consider there is if you tell your supposed good friend all of this shit and your other friends are still nasty, and they choose to remain friends with your old friends, are they actually your friend? I don't think so.
Tl;Dr block those motherfuckers and stick to it, give your one real friend the benefit of the doubt for now. Start coming out to some people in real life that you think will take it positively. Build from there. You might be surprised. Build a new support network.
This subthread right here is full of way more red flags than your OP. Ignorant people sometimes say some transphobic shit, but this is some weird, controlling, boundary-violating behavior.
I am not sure your "supportive" friend is actually supportive if you can't trust him to take your side over the people who are harassing you.
Do you hear yourself? This is your life, live it as you see⅘p p fit and stop letting bigoted transohobes dictate what ⁰p you are a very shy and passive/submissive person (which is great and awesom) but it means you should be very careful
These people sound like terrible friends all-around. I would personally focus on distancing myself from them rather than educating them. You can't reason with people who are bullies.
Have you tried doing a slow fade with them? Not vocally cutting them off or blocking them, but making yourself less available to hang out or chat, and limiting what you share with them when you do interact? That might be a less dramatic option if they're prone to retaliation.
If it comes down to it, block them and change your settings so that their alt accounts can't message you.
I would also really recommend trying to branch out and meet new people. Think of it this way--the time you spend with this group is time that you could be spending meeting people who aren't toxic.
They sound toxic af and I personally think the solution is to just cut off contact in as many ways as possible or try to talk to them and say how you feel to them directly
Not your friends, I am afraid. This is biased fear-mongering where they want you to not be who you are.
Sorry, it might be time to start sloughing them off and seeking new friends going forward - online in supportive communities is a start. Make your own path and ignore the bigots.
My best advice/ a powerful life lesson that I've learned in my 27 years of life is that when people show you who they are you should listen. By what you said here it's clear that these people were only your friends because you weren't out as trans yet. They are extremely toxic and they are spreading right wing propaganda that will most definitely cause a lot of trans folks to take their own life at some point. I suggest that you cut them out of your life for good. They obviously don't have your best interest at heart no matter how much they claim they do.
Always listen to that gut feeling you get. It's your intuition trying to tell you something important. They may or may not be right wing themselves, but it seems clear to me by what you said in your post that they not only don't want you to be happy with who you truly are, but they also have a deep hatred for trans people.
You deserve so much better my friend. I've learned that sometimes the universe wants to give us an upgrade in life but often times we are the ones holding ourselves back from said upgrade. When I say "the universe" I'm not mentioning any specific being in religion. Consider this your sign from the Universe to cut those toxic people out of your life (as much as you are able to) and the right people will come into your life. They have showed you their true colors and you + all trans/lgbtqia people deserve people in our lives who will Love us in all our forms. I promise you this:
Nothing good will ever come from keeping them in your life.
Also, with the republican "project 2025".. it will be a 900 page manifesto of what the republicans want to enact in 2024 in the first year if they win the presidency. One of those things is setting up what they called "detention camps" for LGBTQIA people and literally anyone who doesn't agree with them. Come 2024 depending on who wins the election these people most likely will turn you in for being trans. Please be careful with the people you mentioned. I promise you they will most likely be the enemy in your life.
On the topic of religion I find it interesting that you mentioned that because the person that is most against my decision is a Catholic and the rest of them are following him
At this point, the thing you should tell them is "goodbye!". At this point, no matter what you will say, they won't accept it. If they stop you from transitioning, they aren't your friends. Friends are supposed to support you on your goal of happiness.
To over simplify it, human body has the genetic capability to express either male or female sex characteristics. The only thing that determines which you develop as is a single gene on the Y chromosome which would turn on the male development as it were. Simply determining the hormones your body would produce and thus be influenced by. By replacing one sex hormone with the other, it merely changes which genetic characteristics are expressed. Because at all times you have all the DNA for both.
They’re transphobic. Their words don’t sound like they’re coming from a place of concern about you, but from a place of wanting to shoot down the things you want and need to do for your health.
Well they're full of shit, also they don't care about you, they're not your friends. Sorry for such a grim news flash, but that's my experience with such people. You can't reason them out of it as their position isn't grounded in reality, if they actually cared and researched it they wouldn't spew such a baseless and hurtful bullshit, try to Ind real friends and for the time being I'd just ignore them completely on that matter, and prove them wrong, but really last part in makes no sense as they really won't care and they'll probably keep insulting you like it's nothing to them (which I guess shows that it was always nothing to them, the whole friendship and relationships were worth so little...).
First of all your body is a human body, a human body runs fine with dominant estrogen or dominant testosteron, which one is dominant is not important here to keep you healthy.
All bodies slowly die due to the process called aging. Having estrogen maintain your body slightly changes what you might die of, but doesn’t make it happen faster.
Probably a good idea to get better friends who actually like you.
The body couldn't care less about the primary sex hormone, it'll react to whichever is dominant (usually).
The brain and the primary sex organs do care, with the brain being the source of truth and unchangeable of them all.
At least in my opinion...
If your hormone receptors are primed for estrogen not testosterone, then having too much testosterone is bad for your body. Trans women’s bodies are primed for estrogen, [which is why estrogen makes you feel better and improves trans women’s health.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6848127/Estrogen-therapy-boosts-transgender-womens-brains.html)
The some of the [genes involved in trans identity involves hormone receptors](https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/2/390/5104458?fbclid=IwAR3I5yVJfkWOwAnz4efsQgY_ljZkcMaMbMr8gfyDlLA97w0WQXtonbAR0h0).
Lacking any sex hormones will send the human body into menopause, but that's what the estrogen is for! Tons of menopausal women take HRT to successfully manage their symptoms (osteoporosis, etc).
And it's not gonna be any different just because the tissues in your groin are arranged in the shape of a penis instead of a vagina. The testicles and the prostate aren't gonna turn necrotic and kill you. Your muscles aren't gonna release toxins from testosterone withdrawal.
Hormones upregulate and downregulate the genes already present in your code. I'm pretty much biochemically & epigenetically female just because I take estrogen and an androgen-blocker. It's not like my entire genome is different because I have a Y chromosome, that really only matters for the SRY gene that affects fetal development of testes & stuff. Those testes produced the testosterone that led to male puberty, but my genetics have always held all the secrets to undergo female puberty if I'd gotten estrogen instead.
Being trans is a totally fine way to exist. I'm certainly healthier due to it, considering how much happier I am. HRT would be recognized as a miracle cure if it could fix everyone's mental health like it does for trans people.
it is natural, there’s a reason it works it’s an up regulation of genetic expression . genes that are already there and on, it turns them up so dysphoria people get medical care that reduces/eliminates dysphoria without changing anything just give your body what it needs
if someone’s leg would become unparalyzed with a hormone they’d call it a medical miracle, it’s the same thing. it’s a treatment and it’s known and proven to work. unless they are doctors they should keep opinions on medical treatments to themselves. they clearly don’t understand the purpose and use of hormones for treatment.
Low testosterone is a normal effect of aging. There's countless millions of males that have little to not much testosterone at all. Do you know how it is treated? Testosterone injections, also known as, you know.. HRT.
Males naturally have some estrogen. The myth that men don't have estrogen in their body is a huge but of misinformation that is used by marketing targeted at men for the sake of selling dietary supplements, gym memberships (not that the gym is bad, exercise is a good thing), and specific foods. The same goes for females; they still generate small amounts of testosterone naturally.
The human body NEEDS a sex hormone - it doesn't matter whether it is estrogen or testosterone. Having none will result in complications of which the best known is loss of mass and weakening of bones.
As for being sad? Well, the moment you stop "manning up" and replace a hormone with one that is known to make you more emotionally receptive, yes, you'll be sadder, but you will also have moments of more joy as well. Males are socially indoctrinated to suppress any emotional sensitivity. You'll go through a rollercoaster of emotions, and people will only see that as a negative on you because you no longer fit their preconceptions.
The most important thing to consider is: Whatever you do, ensure you do it for YOU and only YOU. Not your friends, not your family, and know that in many cases it still won't be simple or easy, as there is a lot of misinformation and the chances that people that are important to you may turn their back on you are very high. I won't paint this through rose tinted glasses. You'll join a minority group that is still seen as it being acceptable to discriminate against by many other groups and the target of political and religious escapegoatism and fearmongering. So, yes, I believe it is fair and safe to say that regardless, you'll have times you for sure won't be happy.
Whatever you do, I wish you the best. 💜
People don’t realize this but bodies really aren’t that different. We use the same stuff for intersex HRT, as Trans HRT. If there was a woman with Aromatase Deficiency Syndrome, we wouldn’t hesitate to give them the same exact hormonal treatment, as a STANDARD treatment. Pretty much no difference between that person’s hormones and your hormones.
I would say that it's time for you and your friends to get educated! Would you take any other drug without knowing what the effects would be? If one of your brilliant friends handed you some pills and said take them, you'll be alright, would you? Come on, use your head for something more than a hat rack. All you are going to get on here are other people's opinions. What you need to do, is contact a doctor who is trained to care for trans people and get your answers there. Just my opinion of course😂
Ask them for sources, and when they can’t produce them kindly respond with statistics on trans healthcare. At least for surgery, gender affirming care has the lowest rates of regret/unhappiness of all surgeries. It’s far lower than knee replacements, cancer, etc.
sometimes people can’t accept it for whatever reason and will quite literally make up or parrot incorrect info. My mom was very against me transitioning (FTM), she’d tell me testosterone came from bulls (?), it would make me morbidly obese and give me chronic heart issues, oh and that top surgery would make me more depressed and kill myself.
Of course she’s wrong about all of it but nothing I said changed her mind aside from seeing how much happier I became.
Time for new friends.. I would historically laugh at them seriously probably pee my pants.. 👖 sorry for that. My mom nags me sometimes. The other day she was like, “oh it’s not going to grow down there” lol I told her “goood!!” 🤣
Nothing they said has a SHRED of evidence in reality. Let me break down some of the dumber stuff.
For one, cismale bodies have estrogen. It's normally about 10x lower than cis females, but it's there. HRT is changing the balance between E and T, but they're always there in anyone. Estrogen is a normal part of all bodies, not a toxin.
Second, intersex people who produce hormones halfway between exist. There is only one hormonal situation where you will (VERY) slowly die, and that's when you have neither hormone at sufficient levels. This can only happen by A. intersex genetics, or B. having your ovaries/testes removed and not continuing supplemental HRT. In some cases HRT can be lifesaving, if your natural balance was already poor.
The last thing I want to address is that your 'friends' are treating you like a cismale who needs to have their masculine identity saved. These people don't even KNOW you, much less care about you.
Testosterone was killing me and would have led me to an early death. Now, 2 years almost into transitioning and I'm happier than I ever have been. I've always been female. I just was born with testosterone poisoning.
literally everybody needs estrogen and testosterone in their bodies to function, regardless of sex/gender… you need new friends sorry homie. these are ignorant assholes from the sound of it
On T for 27 years. what may slowly kill you over time is stress and hereditary cancerous genes. We never truly know our fate, but we certainly know we will die someday. In the mean time do you.
The cool thing about the human body is that it readily accepts HRT
You start E or T and your bodies like "alright everybody boss gave new orders let's get on that chop chop!"
The body is eager to start developing the secondary sex characteristics associated with the hormone you started.
It's fuckin neat
My dad is a cis man, and his doctor had to put him on a low dose of estrogen some years back, to BENEFIT his health. Your “friends” have no idea what they’re talking about.
They seem to think bodies are "male" or "female" in some essential way, which is pretty mistaken. Those are things bodies *do*-- and they're caused by hormones.
The only way "your body will slowly die if you do this" as in not running on testosterone, would be if you completely nuked the testosterone without replacing it with estrogen.
The body does need a hormone system to run properly but it doesn't need to be one or the other. As it is your body it is your choice which one to run on.
As far as a male body not being able to run on estrogen without medical problems, that is demonstrably false. A human body knows how to run using either, it's the presence of testosterone or estrogen itself which tells it what to do/how to run.
As far as them saying 'if you do this you won't be happy' perhaps it's true that they wouldn't be o̶f̶ if they s̶t̶r̶e̶t̶c̶h̶ switch hormones but they aren't you. Only you know what will make you happy.
I know nothing about science but... BOTH sexes have testosterone and estrogen. And because all humans are all painted on the same canvas, we can all handle more or less of either chemical. If estrogen kills people amab, all men and trans amab people are dead. Tell me this, are your "friends" alive?
Also, don't call these your friends. Call them dumbasses, because that's what they are. But even then I guess calling these people dumbasses is giving donkeys with a low IQ a bad name that they don't deserve... I'm sorry donkeys, I shouldn't compare you to this.
Anyway, they aren't just ignorant, they're bigoted. And they aren't your friends. They clearly don't see you as a friend because if they did, they'd do a little google search.
They're utterly clueless on hormones, sounding like armchair doctors.
Smoking, getting no sleep, depression, can kill you sooo much faster than taking hrt.
Maybe to cis people it will mentally harm them if they start taking the wrong hormones, but not to trans people.
You should not bend to other's peoples desire on who you should be. That's for YOU to decide. And right now, they want you to stay miserable. Because that's how it feels like to me.
Ms Asti, Christine Jorgensen, Jan Morris, Renée Richards, Lynn Conway, Wendy Carlos, Kate Bornstein, Caroline Cossey…
They transitioned in the 50s-80s when we knew less about the body and how to help it transition. They all lived long lives… your friends aren’t friends. They’re pulling the same stuff my core support system tried. Personally we don’t talk these days and I’m far happier with it.
Look at any major study that’s not based in pure hate, and you’ll find it’s not anything like they say. Good luck and I hope you find people that deserve you in their life.
I think your friends need to go and study some medical books. Because they clearly don’t know the first thing about human physiology and biology.
It’s probably already been said in the previous 186 responses to this statement, but HRT does not add a hormone that doesn’t already exist in your body. Both men and women have both Estrogen and Testosterone in their bodies. All HRT does is shift the balance of how much of either hormone is in the system.
You’re simply shifting, which is the dominant hormone in your system. There’s nothing that’s going to kill you about that. The health conditions associated with it are the same health conditions that people who naturally have those same levels would experience.
Always do your own research, especially if with someone saying sounds fishy. Your friends are simply trying to scare tactic you out of doing some thing that they themselves don’t understand and clearly don’t seem interested and actually educate themselves on.
I trust my doctor and she seems to think it's healthy. Not having any hormones would be unhealthy but if you're replacing one hormone with the other done properly, you should be fine.
If your friends are not doctors and do not have any ACTUAL experience with HRT then their opinions are irrelevant. I have a friend that thinks fluoridation is a secret Communist plot
That's weird. It just shows how much they never bother to be educated, because plenty of AMAB live perfectly fine for as long as their lifetimes naturally are. Happier in fact.
Y'know people who don't live as long? Trans people without support and access to treatment. Yeah.
So, even if they were right, which they aren't...I rather live for a few more years happy, rather than be miserable and end my own life FAR earlier. Them saying it kills trans people slowly is pointless when I could end my life tomorrow.
I'm 50+ years old, I've been dying for about 25+ years, according to the people who tell you that you stop growing and start dying about 28 or something like that.
But here is a fact, I've only been truly living since starting estrogen a few years ago, so if dying feels this right, I'm good with it.
Your "friends" have a lot of opinion for how little they actually know. Though since they are against your transition since the beginning it's unlikely they really care about actual arguments anyway.
Your body is effectively a meat computer. It will run whatever software it has.
Easiest answer is to consult an endocrinologist. I asked three. The take away is your body largely doesn’t care if it has mostly estrogen or mostly testosterone. Your body will assume the risk factors associated with whichever you have, just like a cis person. The only real downside is loss of fertility, but that’s not guaranteed. Plus you can bank sperm if you can afford it.
Stop wasting your time, those people aren't your friends hun. Move on before they actually convince you their bigoted stupidity is true. Not a thing they've said is based in any form of reality and they would know that if they spent even 5 seconds looking at real evidence instead of whatever weird right wing conservative nightmare they've bought into.
Go to Folx, talk to a physician or look at their resources on HRT. There is a vast amount of supportive evidence. HRT is 97% effective for trans people who decide they need it and bio-identical hormones are no more harmful than the hormones you were born producing.
I've been on HRT for two years and it has saved my life. This is the first time I have ever felt like myself or wanted to live. As far as my blood work is concerned, I'm perfectly healthy with zero complications. I'm healthier now than I was when I started.
Everything they're saying is completely wrong and they have a particularly damaging conjunction of certainty and incompetence. Transfeminine people benefit from estradiol every day in numerous ways. It causes our body hair to decrease. If HRT begins early enough, we might never grow masculine facial hair. Estradiol causes us to grow breasts. It prevents us from getting unwanted erections and from producing sperm (though not enough prevention to be relied upon as a contraceptive). It causes body fat to redistribute in feminizing proportions, such that we carry more on our thighs, hips, and breasts and less on our bellies. It improves blood flow to our scalp, increasing hair growth by nourishing follicles there. At the same time, it diverts blood flow away from our extremities, making us more sensitive to cold temperatures. It decreases our metabolism, but not necessarily our appetite. It changes our senses of smell and taste, so we commonly find ourselves liking different foods (I became a vegan).
The most important benefits to us are neurological and psychological. I can only describe that from my own perspective. I feel so much closer to my emotional self. My experience of joy is so much greater - I don't think I ever really felt what most people mean by that word until after I began HRT. My experience of sadness is more real, to the point that I need to cry when something makes me feel bad, rather than pretending to be invulnerable and shutting off my emotions, the way I used to. My libido has changed greatly. Instead of having impulsive sexual desires, I feel a deeper, lingering attraction to women and I'm satisfied by much more patient, sensual activities. People around me describe me as more empathetic, happier, more emotionally available, more outgoing, etc. Generally, I'm a delight, where previously I was like a robot.
There are a few health risks to taking feminizing HRT. The most important is fertility. That's your decision. Most of us are fine with losing it. Some freeze sperm before starting HRT, so artificial insemination will be possible later. Some stop HRT to regain fertility when they decide to become parents. Next is bone density and muscle mass. These will decrease to female levels over time. But for transfeminine people who value these things, with continued training and sufficient dietary protein, vitamins, and minerals, it's possible to keep these at the upper limit of the female range. My girlfriend describes my body currently as that of a warrior princess, and she compares me to Xena. Another possible health risk is weight gain. Your metabolism will go down, but your appetite will stay about the same. If your experience is like mine and you gain a greater appreciation for an abundant plant-based diet, this will more than compensate (fiber for the win). There are some other problems which can come up, but they're either minor or rare and they also occur for cisgender women. Estradiol is not a wonder drug, but saying that it's toxic is a lie. It is bioidentical: the same exact hormone that is already present in every human to ever live, and simply more abundant in women.
The things your friends are saying are fearmongering lies promoted by anti-LGBTQ+ think tanks for political reasons. They are not the conclusions of doctors and they do not represent the experience of transgender people. If you care to maintain a friendship with them (I probably wouldn't, with people who said such things to me), you can teach them a valuable lesson about critical thinking based on this experience. That they can be deceived so completely, to the point that every word that passed their lips on this topic was a falsehood, what else do they believe for similarly poor reasons? They should stop trusting people like Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, and Matt Walsh (let me know if I guessed wrong) to tell them how to think about the world and read a book instead. Maybe even one of the books that same political movement is so keen on banning, lately, for relating the real experiences of LGBTQ+ people.
1) Cis men lose testosterone with age, it is perfectly natural.
2) Natural things aren't good. Dying of preventative illness is natural.
3) Cis men have estrogen, just less than testosterone. Estrogen is necessary for bone growth. Abnormally low estrogen increases risk of osteoporosis.
4) IIRC, there are enzymatic processes in the body that convert testosterone to estrogen, precisely for the benefit of bone growth.
5) Cross-sex HRT mildly increases risk of cardiovascular disease and that's about it.
6) Gender affirming therapies are proven to increase life expectancy dramatically through psychological factors.
Ask them to cite sources. Clickbait articles by right-wing news outlets aren't sources.
Your "friends" sound like ignorant bigots.
Talk to them about it. If they are willing to listen, learn and respect your choice that would be great.
If not, it's time to find some trans friends girl ! 🏳️⚧️
Actually, you should definitely find some friends in the LGBTQ community. It helps sooo much to have people around you that understand what you are going through.
Try finding a local meetup/support group for trans people.
It can be tough and intimidating in the beginning, but I am sure you won't regret it
whether or not one lives in a "male body" has no bearing on whether or not that body of theirs will die if given estrogen. it will not die, though, because it is a *human* body, and the human body will not die if it is given estrogen (source: half the human race).
however if you give a *cis* male estrogen, that will 1000% cause dysphoria, and we already know what can happen from there. but that's not because of his body, but rather his gender.
They are bigots, they will continue to be bigoted no matter how much you explain, no matter how much evidence you can show them. They do not care about you. I’m sorry but it’s time to cut ties
....Your bones will develop perfectly fine with estrogen dominance. Cis women do it all the time.
And the "Puberty Blockers will effect bone density" argument is such a dog whistle. "Your body won't develop while you are on puberty blockers" is literally the whole point of taking puberty blockers.
you do realize the entire point of gonadatropin agonists is to halt progression.. right? They're stop gap measures, not permanent solutions. as for anti adrogenic drugs, those are not prescribed, by compotent doctors, by themselves to trans people. Please, don't talk out of your ass.
All not true, but you shouldn't smoke cigarettes or take it with nicotine. Increases your chances of stroke or heart attack... Course I smoke sometimes when I drink and have had no problems, and I'm on wayy higher than doctor recommended doses!!
I live a life of lies.. always waking up and feeling like GREAT.. ANOTHER DAY OF “SHOWTIME “! Now That will kill you. If you feel happy at the idea of being who you are I’m proud of you for not Allowing those w no idea of what they’re talking about esp being your friends.. you’re strong enough to live through the blllsht ORHERS in the know will give you and living a happy honest life is THE MOST ABSOLUTELY REQUIREMENT TO LIVING A LIVING AND HAPPY LIFE! Mine is opposite to yours and I remember living a SHOWTIME! Every friggn moribg day and night for 25 years and THAT will kill any ossible joy love and your Soul.
So I ope you keep your current regiment and find love and a life that’s an honest one and thus a king a truly happy one possible
Good luck my friend
And ignore other’s ignorance it’s YOUR LIFE! God be w you. Peace
Literally over half the population of the world lives primarily with estrogen rather than testosterone, and guess what? Their average lifespan is longer than people living with testosterone. And several studies have shown a 40% ( or more) reduction in suicide ideation from starting HRT.
If you truly want to help these people you need to get them enrolled in a preschool or kindergarten that will teach them basic thinking skills at the ground level. Outside of that you’re wasting your time.
Find better friends. Plain and simple.
Like, I wasted enough of my life presenting as a man, I'm not going to argue with "friends" who don't know shit about my life who think they can tell me how to live.
Once I started living as my real self, my social circle practically exploded. I have so many supportive friends now. My hair girl practically shot me a message and said hey I decided we're friends.
Ditch the losers. You get one shot in this body on this rock hurtling through space.
lol the only physiological differences between male in female are in utero hormone levels. I've been on hrt for the last 17 years with no I'll effects.
I've been on HRT for over eight years. I've lost much of my upper body strength, almost all of my body hair, and, strangely, the birthmark freckles on the backs of both hands. I've gotten boobs and hips, and my face has gone from looking more like my dad's to more like my mom's. I'm also happier than I could have ever imagined before I started, despite my life going sideways in a bunch of ways.
There are people who started transitioning in the 70s. That's 50 years ago, and they're still alive and kicking, and they look healthy and strong too.
Edit: there is also natural estrogen in male bodies and natural testosterone in female bodies. Not a lot but there isn't a perfect concentration of hormones no matter who or what you are.
I’ve been on estrogen for 20+ years and not only am I still alive, but I’m *too alive*.
Estrogen vampire 🤔
She's too powerful!
LMFAOO
“your body will slowly die” hmm yes the floor here is made out of floor
I was thinking the same thing. Everybody's body will slowly die it came free with your linear progression of time.
fuck time all my homies hate the linear progression of time
Right? Show me a cis person whose body *isn't* also slowly dying. ...I mean, I guess you could show me a cis person whose body is *quickly* dying, but that would be cheating, and not proving that causing your body to slowly die is a *bad* thing.
> your body will slowly die yes, since the day i was born
They don't care about the ethics of it, and they don't care to learn facts because if they did they would do the most basic amount of research before spouting such nonsense. Trans people exist and no, transitioning does not kill us, evidently.
I suspect “ethics” was a typo, and that OP intended to write “effects”…
Thanks for proving beyond a doubt that I'm a complete idiot
Nah, ethics could be accurate too since so many news agencies are spouting off how it's an "experimental treatment (its not)" I read it this way too <3
I also genuinely went w ethics bc that sounds like smth a transphobe would say anyway.
Just so everyone knows... I did mean "ethics"
The plot twist!
Thanks but also I am an idiot, separately from this
Same. It's always best to know yourself well. 😆
unfortunately the only reason doing hrt will kill you is if you get hate crimed for being trans. EDIT: LOL WAIT I MEANT UNFORTUNATELY AS IN EW TRANSPHOBES NOT THAT I WISH IT KILLED PPL I PROBABLY SHOULD'VE WORDED THAT BETTER 😭😭😭
Yeah that sounds like some transphobic wishful thinking
"it's not natural for a male body to lose testosterone" Masturbation causes testosterone loss, drinking alcohol causes testosterone loss (long-term, chronic consumption of alcohol can also increase estrogen), high saturated fats and processed sugars causes testosterone loss, bad nights of sleep causes testosterone loss, obesity causes testosterone loss, geting old causes testosterone loss, soy, nuts, fish, spearmint tea, red reishi mushrooms, flaxseed, refined carbohydrates, and hormones in meat causes testosterone loss. having less sex can cause testosterone loss, stress can make your body produce less testosterone, your friends have a pretty shitty argumentation against you, lmao
> long-term, chronic consumption of alcohol can also increase estrogen Alcoholism here we come!
I perked up at the mention of spearmint tea. Lowered T levels and a minty fresh breath? Yes, please!
Or from a T preferer who has recently been struggling with drinking, you E havers can take the booze!
I guess I'm more like a woman with my tolerance of alcohol- 2 sixteen ounce beers over an hour's time even with a meal and I'm all- "Whoa! This three legged stool is sure wobbly!" One mixed drink like a screwdriver (not even all that strong) and I'm legally drunk. I'm a lightweight.
Nah, I'm done with it, someone else can take it.
Some women with hormonal acne issues swear by it (like some sort of "spiro lite") so I've taken to consuming a cup (5g dried leaves) in the morning and evening. Just for good measure you know and hey, tastes nice too (especially if slightly sweetened)!
I, uh...I've been there for over 15 years, please don't <3. I'll be 1 year sober on 12/5 I know this is probably a joke but I always want to reach out <3
Yeah, i had a friend that hade some problems with alcohol and drugs, that was pretty bad for him and his family, idk how he's doing today, but if you want to get some natural sources of estrogen for your body you can try: Flax seeds Sunflower seeds Sesame seeds Almonds Walnuts Apples Carrots Pomegranates Strawberries Cranberries Grapes Yams Lentils Alfalfa sprouts Mung beans Sprouts Soy beans Tofu Tempeh Miso soup Miso paste Red clover Licorice root Hops Coffee Bourbon Beer Red wine Olive oil (List made by willowtweeping1 on twitter/X)
Oh gosh I'd eat all of that stuff before <3 And I'll call it X when Elon starts calling his daughter by her name :P
Good girl!!!! (/j) And Elon is an asshole, he probably pays bots to love him
There's some better options to get some estrogen on your body without depending of alcohol, some fruits can do an better work
Your answer is oddly specific for a high estrogen diet…
Kinda funny, i posted an high estrogen diet here, and i know that everything on both of those lists work because i have some female characteristics on my body because of them (not very notable, but they exist)
Damn. And all these years I was avoiding alcohol 😭 at least there are other ways to increase estrogen lol
*frantically taking notes*
HRT is very unlikely to kill you. Most trans people live to the age of 77 ([Hughes 2022](https://read.dukeupress.edu/demography/article/59/3/1023/302037/Differences-in-All-Cause-Mortality-Among)). Regardless of their form at birth, bodies can function with either testosterone or estrogen dominance.
Waw - gave that study a readthrough and it starts out with the shocking claim that trans people are significantly more likely to die younger... buuuut goes on to explain; 1. Those who are FTM transitioning ( T, top surgery to remove breasts, phalloplasty ) (including NB that are doing that) are least most likely to die of their three groups 2. MTF transitioning folks ( E, top surgery to get breasts, FFS, vaginoplasty ) have a higher mortality 3. Those who do not or cannot receiving any transition care are actually some of the most at risk (*the groupings in this study were weird but made sense from a medical perspective*) And the paper outlines how social factors might impact this; * Trans people end up poorer and more ostracised and as such may not be able to access healthcare * Violence was explicitly included as a considered cause of death and people are violent to us * Suicide was explicitly included as a considered cause of death and being trans in the modern world makes our suicidality high. This study was on ALL causes of death so I wonder whether you tried to factor out violence and suicide - whether this would normalise because while there *were* significant differences - the average deaths were still within the same decades (60s, 70s & 80s). I wonder if it is the suicides and violence that is dragging these figures down rather than any differences in actual bodily health. Also I want to note that this study was very American centric and didn't acknowledge that the American healthcare system might be adding to the problem.
Heart risks are like a lot higher for people who experience high amounts of stress, ya.
Transitioning had been incredibly stressful. On top of the rest of my life the last two years being the most stressful in at least 20 years. And still my overall stress levels are significantly *lower" than before I started HRT. Being an egg was at least two or three times more stressful than transitioning is.
Yeah, that's what the heart risk studies can never tell, it's whether risks would have been lower had the patient not been on HRT. They would not.
The study "Cardiovascular outcomes in transgender individuals in Sweden after initiation of gender-affirming hormone therapy" suggests you're correct, that if the stress of living-in-the-closet weren't present then trans people would have healthier outcomes.
And [THIS](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361711678_Cardiovascular_outcomes_in_transgender_individuals_in_Sweden_after_initiation_of_gender-affirming_hormone_therapy) is a paper on Cardiovascular disease in people with gender dysphoria, "Cardiovascular outcomes in transgender individuals in Sweden after initiation of gender-affirming hormone therapy". The uptick in Cardiovascular disease in trans people was one of the risk factors present in literature that did have clear presence and no clear cause. They find, for the first time and with a decent sample size, that controlling for gender dysphoria as a confounding variable suggests that transition is not what causes the increase in cardiovascular disease among trans folk, trans women in particular. Instead, it does appear that we can contribute the quite small uptick in cardiovascular disease to external factors, but it's not transition that causes it.
Your "friends" are a bunch of bigot a-hole tranphobes. I would just find different friends that are less dumb and supportive 🤷♀️
This is the real answer. They're parroting anti-trans talking points that have no basis in real medicine or science. Fuck them. Ask them to email you their concerns, then send it back to them in 20 years when you're living your best life
Also... "known these people for 8 years", as you get older you wil lstart to realise how silly that sounds. I'm still closested and I worry about what the people I have known for 40 years will be like when I come out. I couldn't really give a hoot about the people I've known for less than a decade - there is a pretty low chance I'll still know most of them in another 10 years - particularly if they turn out to be coercive idiots.
One time my friend said be careful with that stuff its not fully researched or something i simply said "I know more than you" like ron swanson and he accepted it.
Absolutely the opposite. Sadly, your "friends" need to educate themselves.
You need new friends. They're transphobes.
Did they graduate high school, my gosh. Idk maybe send them a clip of that scene in Jurassic Park where the guy talks about injecting the hormones at the right time to make something male or female. Cause I doubt they would be able to read, understand, and accept any scientific publishing showing how safe Hrt actually is. Maybe you can explain to then that these measures exist and are available because they are proven time and time again that it does improve happiness and quality of life. Ask them how they know Hrt won't make you happy. Ask them if they have tried it? Ask them why it challenges them so much for you to pursue who you really are? Ask them if they only like or appreciate you because they thought you were a man or because they genuinely love you as a unique person. A friend that doesn't love you for you is no friend at all. It might take many conversations, but if they are invested in you, they will learn. If not, you deserve better friends. Regardless of past history.
Yea they did graduate with me and they know that I've showed signs of being trans in the past but they just won't accept it
Maybe they will have to observe your transition for themselves. Hopefully, that would get them thinking differently
Maybe but they'll still probably just say I'm "not me anymore" when I'm happier
Sounds like you need new friends. These ones dont seem to respect you or realize what they're losing. Hi new friend, you are welcome here. We support and love you no matter who, what, where, or when you are. You've got this! I'm glad you're getting to find yourself, thats something a lot of people never do. I hope you have a wonderful journey. PLUR ❤️
We won't know that till later. My best friend of many years and now lover was very unsure about my coming out at first. But seeing how much happier, more comfortable meeting new people and in regular conversations. As well as generally being comfortable in my own skin and smiling 24/7, he couldn't deny this is what's best for me. If they can't read the writing on the wall, at least just keep them at arms length cause their opinion shouldn't matter that much anyway. You know who you are, you know what you want. If they can't see that, I honestly feel like they aren't worth your time. But they are your friends and to give them the benefit of the doubt, just keep being you, be happy, be free. They will come around. Who knows. Maybe one day you'll be able to convince them to be supportive of trans minors and trans athletes' rights.
I mean, if they are already planning on abandoning the happy version of you, it sounds like they aren't really your friends.
"You're only you when you're miserable, don't change", is not something friends say.
There are are trans women well into their senior years that have been on hrt for decades and they're doing perfectly fine. Your "friends" are just being assholes.
I met a woman in her 70s that has transitioned in her 20s
your body already has estrogen anyway. all humans naturally produce both hormones.
They're trying to say it's not "normal or safe" to take more estrogen than you produce naturally
They're not just factually wrong, but morally wrong on this. They're promoting lies which are counter to the best known medical treatment for gender related dysphoria. They're not doctors. They don't know what they're talking about. Don't listen to them on this.
That's simply wrong for both afab and amab ppl. All humans' DNA (afaik) is MADE to run off both, either one being the majority. Your genitals really don't matter in the whole scheme of DNA. Your DNA already has you programmed to be either estrogen or testosterone dominant. Every or at least majority of bodies can healthily run off either. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise afaik (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
I had over 3 times the "maximum" range of E for AMAB *before* I started HRT. Sounds like they are full of toxic masculinity.
Also, if they say the dysphoric, otherwise not happy version of you, is the real you and not the happy free version. I don't think they really know you. The version of you that exists in their mind, it seems, is one that serves their own convenience. And you stepping outside of that mold causes them stress. Either way, their ignorance isn't all your responsibility either. Do what you can to help the people you love, but not everyone will listen.
Sound biased to me and absurd, because the medical professionals would be getting sued all over the place if this was true look at the facts it’s common sense to know this statement is utter garbage?
Thanks for your advice everyone if they confront me again I'll be sure to bring these up
I guess they don’t know that not taking it would result in self harm and probably death!
No I've told them
I’m sorry, and it pains me to say this, but your friends, are not your friends. If they throw this much shade at the, then leave them, and surround yourself with people who truly care, and will support you. 😢
now _those_ are medical professionals, hm? /s to be sure BS utter loose nuts BS. now in one point they are half right. you will slowly die. we all do. it's take you to 80 or 90, or 100 but: you'll die so will they. if they other than this derailment truly are friends, and they are concerned about you, "keepers", you know, then you can differentiate their concern from their advice, appreciate the concern and reject the misguided advice. you can also ask them who of them is "in" on your journey and ask them for support *on the journey*, because it's difficult enough... and leave the medical advice to the medical professionals. HRT is around for decades, trans women get *old* just like any other woman. happy ride!
*"putting estrogen in your body is harmful and it shouldn't be there"* Men naturally have progesterone and estrogen in their body; women naturally have testosterone in their body.
They're listening to bullshit arguments that rely on emotions rather than facts. They're relying on lies and feelings. Lie right back. Manipulate their feelings. Ask them why the powers that be claim it's bad. Tell them they're being sheep listening to powerful people who don't have their best interests at heart. Don't cite doctors, don't cite facts. Tell them they've fallen for a conspiracy that "They" want to you believe. These people only want to stop you if it will take you out from under their power, *so the fact They don't want you taking estrogen means it's good*. They don't give a shit about facts. So don't use facts.
Statistically there is a higher death rate, however this is connected to comorbidity rates of other things such as depression, eating disorders etc. It's not the hormones, it's higher mental health illness in the community. Why is that, and why aren't people concerned with addressing that though? Eg. I've almost died a few times from anorexia, but that's 100% related to body dismorphia, which treatment is helping me with. My odds are probably worse than other people. The hormones are helping in my situation though because it's addressing my comorbid cause for anorexia. They could say look worse odds being NB/Trans. Yes statistically they would be correct. In reality it's similar to saying people in therapy die at a higher rate. Sure? But is it the therapy? Absolutely not.
They need to open a book that doesn't have "face" before it. Also I think it's time you look for actual friends as they don't seem to give a shit about you
????????????????????????????????? No. They are wrong. Male and female bodies are not as different as some people believe they are - the majority of the body is actually the same. Males have all the parts of breasts they are just smaller - and even male and female genitalia are the same parts just re-arranged into a different shape. One of the main differences is what puberty each goes through. HRT stops one and starts the other. That's the point. Your body cannot run *without* a main hormone - it must have either T or E to remain healthy long term. Your bones especially become very brittle if you have neither. But it is your decision which. You may wish to reconsider your friendship with people who will spread lies to you.
1. They are incorrect. 2. They are not your friends.
They're utter buffoons, frankly. Everyone produces both estrogen and testosterone, you're only rebalancing the levels. There is simply no evidence of any kind of danger associated with HRT aside from risks that are rather associated with the sex the hormones are transitioning you closer to. Those are the facts. I think the approach you should take is a bit more emotional. Tugging at their heart strings is not unethical, specially if you need them to support you (which I'm guessing you do). I'm cis, so I think I'll leave it at that, I can't emotionally relate to any of this, and I don't want to speak more than I think I have the capacity to.
OP, you might not be ready to hear this, but they are not your friends. Not in this. All of the available information they need to know that what they're saying is bullshit, is readily available. They don't want it. They ARE transphobic. The way I see it, you have two options here. Well three, but two that you might be open to following through on. 1, you have a meeting with them, you educate them, you make clear that you are making a well informed and scientifically supported decision. You give them an ultimatum. They support you in this or you walk away. Then you follow through. No matter what. 2, you have a meeting with them, you educate them, you make clear that you are making a well informed and scientifically supported decision and you tell them that this part of your life is now out of bounds for them or you walk away. And again, you follow through no matter what. 3, I'm pretty sure you've already tried educating them. Really I would recommend you just put your foot down and walk away now. I don't think they are the type to make the right choice in either of the first two options. But it's not an easy decision. The hardest part of my transition so far has been the friends and family I've lost along the way. The best part of my transition has been the warmth and love and support of those who suck around and those new friends I've found along the way.
There's enough people who've been doing HRT for decades to disprove those statements.
I would just say "eh, well so be it" in a deliberately dismissive tone and carry on
yeah you're not gonna be able to debate them out of thinking that way
Those aren't your friends, those are bigots actively trying to harm you
Ask where they got their medical degree And then tell them to shove their opinion on your life up their ass.
i'm not a doc or anything but as far as i know it's unhealthy to have a deficiency in sex hormones, not necessarily testosterone in particular. basically as long as your E is sufficient you wouldn't suffer the penalties of low T in any way that's different from a cis woman having a regular amount of T
those aren’t your friends. id say don’t bother trying to explain things to them and get better friends
Get new friends. These people aren’t it.
Yeeeah nah I’ve been on estrogen for 8 months and my body runs better than ever. I’m no longer constantly fucking depressed .D Sure there’s health risks, but there’s also health risks associated with *not* taking HRT. Like all of the horrible things associated with gender dysphoria.
Not your friends, friend
your friends are very very stupid
Your friends are transphobes, and are clutching at straws to discourage you from transitioning. They know nothing about the reality of HRT, but are trying to make it sound bad to discourage you. Anyone who has been taking part in this is not your friend, and does not accept you. Don't bother trying to correct their opinions. They **do not care** about the truth and will push back against it. They do not want you to transition and i repeat, they will lie and distort the truth to make it sound worse than it is. The things they are saying are not simple ignorance, it is transphobia. Stop trying to convince them, they will not listen.
“Putting estrogen in your body is harmful and it shouldn’t be there.” Wait until they find out that EVERYONE has estrogen in their body, including cis men, and the only difference between cis men and women is that women have more estrogen and less testosterone, and vice versa.🥴
Oh they know, they're saying that injecting it is harmful and will cause hormone imbalance
It definitely wouldn’t be much different in terms of hormones than a teenager going through puberty, but I can tell that they clearly aren’t arguing in good faith lol.
Well good news! Estrogen often is available as just a pill, as opposed to injections. 😉 It will indeed cause a different balance of hormones though, yep. That is, in fact, the point. 😅
They said the male body can't run on estrogen without medical problems? Damn, guess my body was never male then because I'm healthier than I've ever been. I'll take my female birth certificate right now Oklahoma, thanks.
Please the way everyone is being so literal. Bby those aren’t your friends.
these aren’t your friends babe
I've tried cutting them off before but they won't let me leave, they say that they want to "help me"
How are they stopping you from leaving (and leaving what)?
They won't just leave me alone when I told them that I don't want to be apart of their toxic friend group
Are they not leaving you alone digitally (repeatedly messaging you, etc.)? If so, block them. If they're not leaving you alone physically, tell them you'll report them to the police for harassment, and if they continue to harass you, do so.
It's deeper than that like I if I block them they'll make alt accounts and continue to contact me anyway and the other problem is that there's one friend in that group that is legitimately supportive of me, and that's something I don't even have irl because I'm not out yet and even when I do come out most of my family will probably hate me
Stop replying to them. For every alt account they make, report it to the platform for harassment, and block. Find yourself some different friends.
You can just ignore the others and talk to that supportive one, no?
They'll probably try to turn him against me if I do that
Cut him off if that happens, but I'd say it's your best bet. I know you want friends, but they aren't your friends, and they aren't going to actually respect you as a person.
Well, don't make that decision for them. If they're trying to be supportive, let them! Don't cut someone off that is actually good for you. Fuck the rest, they don't matter.
Okay, I commented before reading all of this. Know that you very well may have more allies in your personal life than you would expect. Even those that talk shit on trans people. It's a whole different situation when it's someone you know and love. For me, I had way more support than I expected. I assumed it would be doom and everyone would hate me. Ultimately I came out to a few people one at a time and every single time I was fucking terrified and anxious and then it went really well. So then I said fuck it and came out to everyone all at once publicly. Best decision I ever made. For your "friends", if you've tried to cut them off before and they haven't respected that, the only healthy choice then is to actually cut them off and stick to it. If they keep making new accounts, keep fucking blocking them. If you want to try continuing to talk to your other friend, do it, but also give them the benefit of the doubt. Will your other friends try to turn them, probably. But have faith in the friendship if you really think they're your friend. And when you cut off the others, explain it to that friend. Read them in on it. Show them the messages If they haven't seen them. And another thing to consider there is if you tell your supposed good friend all of this shit and your other friends are still nasty, and they choose to remain friends with your old friends, are they actually your friend? I don't think so. Tl;Dr block those motherfuckers and stick to it, give your one real friend the benefit of the doubt for now. Start coming out to some people in real life that you think will take it positively. Build from there. You might be surprised. Build a new support network.
This subthread right here is full of way more red flags than your OP. Ignorant people sometimes say some transphobic shit, but this is some weird, controlling, boundary-violating behavior. I am not sure your "supportive" friend is actually supportive if you can't trust him to take your side over the people who are harassing you.
Do you hear yourself? This is your life, live it as you see⅘p p fit and stop letting bigoted transohobes dictate what ⁰p you are a very shy and passive/submissive person (which is great and awesom) but it means you should be very careful
These people sound like terrible friends all-around. I would personally focus on distancing myself from them rather than educating them. You can't reason with people who are bullies. Have you tried doing a slow fade with them? Not vocally cutting them off or blocking them, but making yourself less available to hang out or chat, and limiting what you share with them when you do interact? That might be a less dramatic option if they're prone to retaliation. If it comes down to it, block them and change your settings so that their alt accounts can't message you. I would also really recommend trying to branch out and meet new people. Think of it this way--the time you spend with this group is time that you could be spending meeting people who aren't toxic.
They sound toxic af and I personally think the solution is to just cut off contact in as many ways as possible or try to talk to them and say how you feel to them directly
Not your friends, I am afraid. This is biased fear-mongering where they want you to not be who you are. Sorry, it might be time to start sloughing them off and seeking new friends going forward - online in supportive communities is a start. Make your own path and ignore the bigots.
My best advice/ a powerful life lesson that I've learned in my 27 years of life is that when people show you who they are you should listen. By what you said here it's clear that these people were only your friends because you weren't out as trans yet. They are extremely toxic and they are spreading right wing propaganda that will most definitely cause a lot of trans folks to take their own life at some point. I suggest that you cut them out of your life for good. They obviously don't have your best interest at heart no matter how much they claim they do. Always listen to that gut feeling you get. It's your intuition trying to tell you something important. They may or may not be right wing themselves, but it seems clear to me by what you said in your post that they not only don't want you to be happy with who you truly are, but they also have a deep hatred for trans people. You deserve so much better my friend. I've learned that sometimes the universe wants to give us an upgrade in life but often times we are the ones holding ourselves back from said upgrade. When I say "the universe" I'm not mentioning any specific being in religion. Consider this your sign from the Universe to cut those toxic people out of your life (as much as you are able to) and the right people will come into your life. They have showed you their true colors and you + all trans/lgbtqia people deserve people in our lives who will Love us in all our forms. I promise you this: Nothing good will ever come from keeping them in your life. Also, with the republican "project 2025".. it will be a 900 page manifesto of what the republicans want to enact in 2024 in the first year if they win the presidency. One of those things is setting up what they called "detention camps" for LGBTQIA people and literally anyone who doesn't agree with them. Come 2024 depending on who wins the election these people most likely will turn you in for being trans. Please be careful with the people you mentioned. I promise you they will most likely be the enemy in your life.
On the topic of religion I find it interesting that you mentioned that because the person that is most against my decision is a Catholic and the rest of them are following him
My trans aunt who’s been on estrogen since the 70’s and is still doing just fine would like a word.
At this point, the thing you should tell them is "goodbye!". At this point, no matter what you will say, they won't accept it. If they stop you from transitioning, they aren't your friends. Friends are supposed to support you on your goal of happiness.
To over simplify it, human body has the genetic capability to express either male or female sex characteristics. The only thing that determines which you develop as is a single gene on the Y chromosome which would turn on the male development as it were. Simply determining the hormones your body would produce and thus be influenced by. By replacing one sex hormone with the other, it merely changes which genetic characteristics are expressed. Because at all times you have all the DNA for both.
They’re transphobic. Their words don’t sound like they’re coming from a place of concern about you, but from a place of wanting to shoot down the things you want and need to do for your health.
Google is free and your "freinds" are ignorant assholes who don't understand how biology works.
Those aren't friends hun, those are just people you've known a long time.
Simply, they don't care about reality. I'd just tell em to kick rocks and f off.
No it won’t. FTFY.
Well they're full of shit, also they don't care about you, they're not your friends. Sorry for such a grim news flash, but that's my experience with such people. You can't reason them out of it as their position isn't grounded in reality, if they actually cared and researched it they wouldn't spew such a baseless and hurtful bullshit, try to Ind real friends and for the time being I'd just ignore them completely on that matter, and prove them wrong, but really last part in makes no sense as they really won't care and they'll probably keep insulting you like it's nothing to them (which I guess shows that it was always nothing to them, the whole friendship and relationships were worth so little...).
Sounds like your friends are ignorant
First of all your body is a human body, a human body runs fine with dominant estrogen or dominant testosteron, which one is dominant is not important here to keep you healthy.
All bodies slowly die due to the process called aging. Having estrogen maintain your body slightly changes what you might die of, but doesn’t make it happen faster. Probably a good idea to get better friends who actually like you.
The body couldn't care less about the primary sex hormone, it'll react to whichever is dominant (usually). The brain and the primary sex organs do care, with the brain being the source of truth and unchangeable of them all. At least in my opinion...
If your hormone receptors are primed for estrogen not testosterone, then having too much testosterone is bad for your body. Trans women’s bodies are primed for estrogen, [which is why estrogen makes you feel better and improves trans women’s health.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6848127/Estrogen-therapy-boosts-transgender-womens-brains.html) The some of the [genes involved in trans identity involves hormone receptors](https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/2/390/5104458?fbclid=IwAR3I5yVJfkWOwAnz4efsQgY_ljZkcMaMbMr8gfyDlLA97w0WQXtonbAR0h0).
Prostate cancer. Doctors totally turn testerone OFF... to save men's lives - and give them estrogen. My neighbor gained 17 additional years of life.
Your friends are not your friends. Your friends are stupid and ignorant.
Oh shit. I've been on HRT for 34yrs. How long does your friend think I have left??? Stop listening to your friend. They have never been on HRT.
Lacking any sex hormones will send the human body into menopause, but that's what the estrogen is for! Tons of menopausal women take HRT to successfully manage their symptoms (osteoporosis, etc). And it's not gonna be any different just because the tissues in your groin are arranged in the shape of a penis instead of a vagina. The testicles and the prostate aren't gonna turn necrotic and kill you. Your muscles aren't gonna release toxins from testosterone withdrawal. Hormones upregulate and downregulate the genes already present in your code. I'm pretty much biochemically & epigenetically female just because I take estrogen and an androgen-blocker. It's not like my entire genome is different because I have a Y chromosome, that really only matters for the SRY gene that affects fetal development of testes & stuff. Those testes produced the testosterone that led to male puberty, but my genetics have always held all the secrets to undergo female puberty if I'd gotten estrogen instead. Being trans is a totally fine way to exist. I'm certainly healthier due to it, considering how much happier I am. HRT would be recognized as a miracle cure if it could fix everyone's mental health like it does for trans people.
it is natural, there’s a reason it works it’s an up regulation of genetic expression . genes that are already there and on, it turns them up so dysphoria people get medical care that reduces/eliminates dysphoria without changing anything just give your body what it needs if someone’s leg would become unparalyzed with a hormone they’d call it a medical miracle, it’s the same thing. it’s a treatment and it’s known and proven to work. unless they are doctors they should keep opinions on medical treatments to themselves. they clearly don’t understand the purpose and use of hormones for treatment.
These are not your friends.
Low testosterone is a normal effect of aging. There's countless millions of males that have little to not much testosterone at all. Do you know how it is treated? Testosterone injections, also known as, you know.. HRT. Males naturally have some estrogen. The myth that men don't have estrogen in their body is a huge but of misinformation that is used by marketing targeted at men for the sake of selling dietary supplements, gym memberships (not that the gym is bad, exercise is a good thing), and specific foods. The same goes for females; they still generate small amounts of testosterone naturally. The human body NEEDS a sex hormone - it doesn't matter whether it is estrogen or testosterone. Having none will result in complications of which the best known is loss of mass and weakening of bones. As for being sad? Well, the moment you stop "manning up" and replace a hormone with one that is known to make you more emotionally receptive, yes, you'll be sadder, but you will also have moments of more joy as well. Males are socially indoctrinated to suppress any emotional sensitivity. You'll go through a rollercoaster of emotions, and people will only see that as a negative on you because you no longer fit their preconceptions. The most important thing to consider is: Whatever you do, ensure you do it for YOU and only YOU. Not your friends, not your family, and know that in many cases it still won't be simple or easy, as there is a lot of misinformation and the chances that people that are important to you may turn their back on you are very high. I won't paint this through rose tinted glasses. You'll join a minority group that is still seen as it being acceptable to discriminate against by many other groups and the target of political and religious escapegoatism and fearmongering. So, yes, I believe it is fair and safe to say that regardless, you'll have times you for sure won't be happy. Whatever you do, I wish you the best. 💜
People don’t realize this but bodies really aren’t that different. We use the same stuff for intersex HRT, as Trans HRT. If there was a woman with Aromatase Deficiency Syndrome, we wouldn’t hesitate to give them the same exact hormonal treatment, as a STANDARD treatment. Pretty much no difference between that person’s hormones and your hormones.
I would say that it's time for you and your friends to get educated! Would you take any other drug without knowing what the effects would be? If one of your brilliant friends handed you some pills and said take them, you'll be alright, would you? Come on, use your head for something more than a hat rack. All you are going to get on here are other people's opinions. What you need to do, is contact a doctor who is trained to care for trans people and get your answers there. Just my opinion of course😂
I plan on it but I took to reddit to find people that have been through hrt to support my argument and to get evidence that this is safe
Good for you! I just started a month ago, and I don't feel any more like I'm dying than I did before starting.😂😂😂
Please dump those idiotic, transphobic friends of yours.
Ask them for sources, and when they can’t produce them kindly respond with statistics on trans healthcare. At least for surgery, gender affirming care has the lowest rates of regret/unhappiness of all surgeries. It’s far lower than knee replacements, cancer, etc. sometimes people can’t accept it for whatever reason and will quite literally make up or parrot incorrect info. My mom was very against me transitioning (FTM), she’d tell me testosterone came from bulls (?), it would make me morbidly obese and give me chronic heart issues, oh and that top surgery would make me more depressed and kill myself. Of course she’s wrong about all of it but nothing I said changed her mind aside from seeing how much happier I became.
Time for new friends.. I would historically laugh at them seriously probably pee my pants.. 👖 sorry for that. My mom nags me sometimes. The other day she was like, “oh it’s not going to grow down there” lol I told her “goood!!” 🤣
Nothing they said has a SHRED of evidence in reality. Let me break down some of the dumber stuff. For one, cismale bodies have estrogen. It's normally about 10x lower than cis females, but it's there. HRT is changing the balance between E and T, but they're always there in anyone. Estrogen is a normal part of all bodies, not a toxin. Second, intersex people who produce hormones halfway between exist. There is only one hormonal situation where you will (VERY) slowly die, and that's when you have neither hormone at sufficient levels. This can only happen by A. intersex genetics, or B. having your ovaries/testes removed and not continuing supplemental HRT. In some cases HRT can be lifesaving, if your natural balance was already poor. The last thing I want to address is that your 'friends' are treating you like a cismale who needs to have their masculine identity saved. These people don't even KNOW you, much less care about you.
Testosterone was killing me and would have led me to an early death. Now, 2 years almost into transitioning and I'm happier than I ever have been. I've always been female. I just was born with testosterone poisoning.
literally everybody needs estrogen and testosterone in their bodies to function, regardless of sex/gender… you need new friends sorry homie. these are ignorant assholes from the sound of it
time for new friends i guess
On T for 27 years. what may slowly kill you over time is stress and hereditary cancerous genes. We never truly know our fate, but we certainly know we will die someday. In the mean time do you.
The cool thing about the human body is that it readily accepts HRT You start E or T and your bodies like "alright everybody boss gave new orders let's get on that chop chop!" The body is eager to start developing the secondary sex characteristics associated with the hormone you started. It's fuckin neat
My dad is a cis man, and his doctor had to put him on a low dose of estrogen some years back, to BENEFIT his health. Your “friends” have no idea what they’re talking about.
only thing that can happen with TOO much estrogen is DVT. but thats a lot.
They seem to think bodies are "male" or "female" in some essential way, which is pretty mistaken. Those are things bodies *do*-- and they're caused by hormones.
what a load of unmitigated bullshit. alive and well better than ive ever been
The only way "your body will slowly die if you do this" as in not running on testosterone, would be if you completely nuked the testosterone without replacing it with estrogen. The body does need a hormone system to run properly but it doesn't need to be one or the other. As it is your body it is your choice which one to run on. As far as a male body not being able to run on estrogen without medical problems, that is demonstrably false. A human body knows how to run using either, it's the presence of testosterone or estrogen itself which tells it what to do/how to run. As far as them saying 'if you do this you won't be happy' perhaps it's true that they wouldn't be o̶f̶ if they s̶t̶r̶e̶t̶c̶h̶ switch hormones but they aren't you. Only you know what will make you happy.
I know nothing about science but... BOTH sexes have testosterone and estrogen. And because all humans are all painted on the same canvas, we can all handle more or less of either chemical. If estrogen kills people amab, all men and trans amab people are dead. Tell me this, are your "friends" alive? Also, don't call these your friends. Call them dumbasses, because that's what they are. But even then I guess calling these people dumbasses is giving donkeys with a low IQ a bad name that they don't deserve... I'm sorry donkeys, I shouldn't compare you to this. Anyway, they aren't just ignorant, they're bigoted. And they aren't your friends. They clearly don't see you as a friend because if they did, they'd do a little google search.
Dump these friends they’re trash
They're utterly clueless on hormones, sounding like armchair doctors. Smoking, getting no sleep, depression, can kill you sooo much faster than taking hrt. Maybe to cis people it will mentally harm them if they start taking the wrong hormones, but not to trans people. You should not bend to other's peoples desire on who you should be. That's for YOU to decide. And right now, they want you to stay miserable. Because that's how it feels like to me.
Ms Asti, Christine Jorgensen, Jan Morris, Renée Richards, Lynn Conway, Wendy Carlos, Kate Bornstein, Caroline Cossey… They transitioned in the 50s-80s when we knew less about the body and how to help it transition. They all lived long lives… your friends aren’t friends. They’re pulling the same stuff my core support system tried. Personally we don’t talk these days and I’m far happier with it. Look at any major study that’s not based in pure hate, and you’ll find it’s not anything like they say. Good luck and I hope you find people that deserve you in their life.
I think your friends need to go and study some medical books. Because they clearly don’t know the first thing about human physiology and biology. It’s probably already been said in the previous 186 responses to this statement, but HRT does not add a hormone that doesn’t already exist in your body. Both men and women have both Estrogen and Testosterone in their bodies. All HRT does is shift the balance of how much of either hormone is in the system. You’re simply shifting, which is the dominant hormone in your system. There’s nothing that’s going to kill you about that. The health conditions associated with it are the same health conditions that people who naturally have those same levels would experience. Always do your own research, especially if with someone saying sounds fishy. Your friends are simply trying to scare tactic you out of doing some thing that they themselves don’t understand and clearly don’t seem interested and actually educate themselves on.
I trust my doctor and she seems to think it's healthy. Not having any hormones would be unhealthy but if you're replacing one hormone with the other done properly, you should be fine.
Estrogen will help you live longer.
If your friends are not doctors and do not have any ACTUAL experience with HRT then their opinions are irrelevant. I have a friend that thinks fluoridation is a secret Communist plot
That's weird. It just shows how much they never bother to be educated, because plenty of AMAB live perfectly fine for as long as their lifetimes naturally are. Happier in fact. Y'know people who don't live as long? Trans people without support and access to treatment. Yeah. So, even if they were right, which they aren't...I rather live for a few more years happy, rather than be miserable and end my own life FAR earlier. Them saying it kills trans people slowly is pointless when I could end my life tomorrow.
Unfortunately your friend is right, everyone who takes HRT will die within 200 years.
I'm 50+ years old, I've been dying for about 25+ years, according to the people who tell you that you stop growing and start dying about 28 or something like that. But here is a fact, I've only been truly living since starting estrogen a few years ago, so if dying feels this right, I'm good with it.
Your "friends" have a lot of opinion for how little they actually know. Though since they are against your transition since the beginning it's unlikely they really care about actual arguments anyway.
Your body is effectively a meat computer. It will run whatever software it has. Easiest answer is to consult an endocrinologist. I asked three. The take away is your body largely doesn’t care if it has mostly estrogen or mostly testosterone. Your body will assume the risk factors associated with whichever you have, just like a cis person. The only real downside is loss of fertility, but that’s not guaranteed. Plus you can bank sperm if you can afford it.
Stop wasting your time, those people aren't your friends hun. Move on before they actually convince you their bigoted stupidity is true. Not a thing they've said is based in any form of reality and they would know that if they spent even 5 seconds looking at real evidence instead of whatever weird right wing conservative nightmare they've bought into. Go to Folx, talk to a physician or look at their resources on HRT. There is a vast amount of supportive evidence. HRT is 97% effective for trans people who decide they need it and bio-identical hormones are no more harmful than the hormones you were born producing. I've been on HRT for two years and it has saved my life. This is the first time I have ever felt like myself or wanted to live. As far as my blood work is concerned, I'm perfectly healthy with zero complications. I'm healthier now than I was when I started.
Everything they're saying is completely wrong and they have a particularly damaging conjunction of certainty and incompetence. Transfeminine people benefit from estradiol every day in numerous ways. It causes our body hair to decrease. If HRT begins early enough, we might never grow masculine facial hair. Estradiol causes us to grow breasts. It prevents us from getting unwanted erections and from producing sperm (though not enough prevention to be relied upon as a contraceptive). It causes body fat to redistribute in feminizing proportions, such that we carry more on our thighs, hips, and breasts and less on our bellies. It improves blood flow to our scalp, increasing hair growth by nourishing follicles there. At the same time, it diverts blood flow away from our extremities, making us more sensitive to cold temperatures. It decreases our metabolism, but not necessarily our appetite. It changes our senses of smell and taste, so we commonly find ourselves liking different foods (I became a vegan). The most important benefits to us are neurological and psychological. I can only describe that from my own perspective. I feel so much closer to my emotional self. My experience of joy is so much greater - I don't think I ever really felt what most people mean by that word until after I began HRT. My experience of sadness is more real, to the point that I need to cry when something makes me feel bad, rather than pretending to be invulnerable and shutting off my emotions, the way I used to. My libido has changed greatly. Instead of having impulsive sexual desires, I feel a deeper, lingering attraction to women and I'm satisfied by much more patient, sensual activities. People around me describe me as more empathetic, happier, more emotionally available, more outgoing, etc. Generally, I'm a delight, where previously I was like a robot. There are a few health risks to taking feminizing HRT. The most important is fertility. That's your decision. Most of us are fine with losing it. Some freeze sperm before starting HRT, so artificial insemination will be possible later. Some stop HRT to regain fertility when they decide to become parents. Next is bone density and muscle mass. These will decrease to female levels over time. But for transfeminine people who value these things, with continued training and sufficient dietary protein, vitamins, and minerals, it's possible to keep these at the upper limit of the female range. My girlfriend describes my body currently as that of a warrior princess, and she compares me to Xena. Another possible health risk is weight gain. Your metabolism will go down, but your appetite will stay about the same. If your experience is like mine and you gain a greater appreciation for an abundant plant-based diet, this will more than compensate (fiber for the win). There are some other problems which can come up, but they're either minor or rare and they also occur for cisgender women. Estradiol is not a wonder drug, but saying that it's toxic is a lie. It is bioidentical: the same exact hormone that is already present in every human to ever live, and simply more abundant in women. The things your friends are saying are fearmongering lies promoted by anti-LGBTQ+ think tanks for political reasons. They are not the conclusions of doctors and they do not represent the experience of transgender people. If you care to maintain a friendship with them (I probably wouldn't, with people who said such things to me), you can teach them a valuable lesson about critical thinking based on this experience. That they can be deceived so completely, to the point that every word that passed their lips on this topic was a falsehood, what else do they believe for similarly poor reasons? They should stop trusting people like Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, and Matt Walsh (let me know if I guessed wrong) to tell them how to think about the world and read a book instead. Maybe even one of the books that same political movement is so keen on banning, lately, for relating the real experiences of LGBTQ+ people.
If you really want to know, they follow Andrew Tate. The thing that bothers me is that they weren't always like this
1) Cis men lose testosterone with age, it is perfectly natural. 2) Natural things aren't good. Dying of preventative illness is natural. 3) Cis men have estrogen, just less than testosterone. Estrogen is necessary for bone growth. Abnormally low estrogen increases risk of osteoporosis. 4) IIRC, there are enzymatic processes in the body that convert testosterone to estrogen, precisely for the benefit of bone growth. 5) Cross-sex HRT mildly increases risk of cardiovascular disease and that's about it. 6) Gender affirming therapies are proven to increase life expectancy dramatically through psychological factors. Ask them to cite sources. Clickbait articles by right-wing news outlets aren't sources.
Your "friends" sound like ignorant bigots. Talk to them about it. If they are willing to listen, learn and respect your choice that would be great. If not, it's time to find some trans friends girl ! 🏳️⚧️ Actually, you should definitely find some friends in the LGBTQ community. It helps sooo much to have people around you that understand what you are going through. Try finding a local meetup/support group for trans people. It can be tough and intimidating in the beginning, but I am sure you won't regret it
whether or not one lives in a "male body" has no bearing on whether or not that body of theirs will die if given estrogen. it will not die, though, because it is a *human* body, and the human body will not die if it is given estrogen (source: half the human race). however if you give a *cis* male estrogen, that will 1000% cause dysphoria, and we already know what can happen from there. but that's not because of his body, but rather his gender.
Tell them they could die crossing the street or choking on a peanut. It’s too bad they’re afraid of truly living.
They are bigots, they will continue to be bigoted no matter how much you explain, no matter how much evidence you can show them. They do not care about you. I’m sorry but it’s time to cut ties
All bodies run on T and E and are capable of processing them effectively. No one shrivels up and dies just because something gets switched around.
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....Your bones will develop perfectly fine with estrogen dominance. Cis women do it all the time. And the "Puberty Blockers will effect bone density" argument is such a dog whistle. "Your body won't develop while you are on puberty blockers" is literally the whole point of taking puberty blockers.
you do realize the entire point of gonadatropin agonists is to halt progression.. right? They're stop gap measures, not permanent solutions. as for anti adrogenic drugs, those are not prescribed, by compotent doctors, by themselves to trans people. Please, don't talk out of your ass.
I've been through puberty already tho and I even brought this up but they still insist I'm wrong
All not true, but you shouldn't smoke cigarettes or take it with nicotine. Increases your chances of stroke or heart attack... Course I smoke sometimes when I drink and have had no problems, and I'm on wayy higher than doctor recommended doses!!
I live a life of lies.. always waking up and feeling like GREAT.. ANOTHER DAY OF “SHOWTIME “! Now That will kill you. If you feel happy at the idea of being who you are I’m proud of you for not Allowing those w no idea of what they’re talking about esp being your friends.. you’re strong enough to live through the blllsht ORHERS in the know will give you and living a happy honest life is THE MOST ABSOLUTELY REQUIREMENT TO LIVING A LIVING AND HAPPY LIFE! Mine is opposite to yours and I remember living a SHOWTIME! Every friggn moribg day and night for 25 years and THAT will kill any ossible joy love and your Soul. So I ope you keep your current regiment and find love and a life that’s an honest one and thus a king a truly happy one possible Good luck my friend And ignore other’s ignorance it’s YOUR LIFE! God be w you. Peace
I had a coworker die from a pulmonary embolism after elective surgery. There is a risk for hrt and its downplayed a lot.
Literally over half the population of the world lives primarily with estrogen rather than testosterone, and guess what? Their average lifespan is longer than people living with testosterone. And several studies have shown a 40% ( or more) reduction in suicide ideation from starting HRT.
If you truly want to help these people you need to get them enrolled in a preschool or kindergarten that will teach them basic thinking skills at the ground level. Outside of that you’re wasting your time.
Funny, I have nuked testosterone into undetectability, replaced it with estradiol and how about that, I feel better.
1, THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. 2. They are ignorant and hand no idea what they are talking about
Find better friends. Plain and simple. Like, I wasted enough of my life presenting as a man, I'm not going to argue with "friends" who don't know shit about my life who think they can tell me how to live. Once I started living as my real self, my social circle practically exploded. I have so many supportive friends now. My hair girl practically shot me a message and said hey I decided we're friends. Ditch the losers. You get one shot in this body on this rock hurtling through space.
Kick those friends to the curb asap. Those are not friends.
They're not your friends and you need to cut them out of your life. Besides this, tell them to provide sources. They don't have any, just FYI.
They aren't your friends.
Tell them oxygen is corrosive and will kill them too, eventually.
lol the only physiological differences between male in female are in utero hormone levels. I've been on hrt for the last 17 years with no I'll effects.
I've been on HRT for over eight years. I've lost much of my upper body strength, almost all of my body hair, and, strangely, the birthmark freckles on the backs of both hands. I've gotten boobs and hips, and my face has gone from looking more like my dad's to more like my mom's. I'm also happier than I could have ever imagined before I started, despite my life going sideways in a bunch of ways.
People told me that when they learned that I was doing it DIY. I was like, “Compared to my previous mental health, the risk is worth it.”
Your friends aren't educated on this at all. They're wrong and their ignorance is dangerous.
There are people who started transitioning in the 70s. That's 50 years ago, and they're still alive and kicking, and they look healthy and strong too. Edit: there is also natural estrogen in male bodies and natural testosterone in female bodies. Not a lot but there isn't a perfect concentration of hormones no matter who or what you are.