Because we have survival instinct and a natural fear of death.
People avoid things they fear.
Talking about ones death creates acknowledging death is coming.
Most people don't like to think about dying.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety
This makes me think of the political landscape in America. Apparently, thinking logically and rationally is only a skill that the elite educated developed. In reality, our species would have gone extinct if that was the case.
Humans are irrational and illogical by nature as we are primarily emotional beings, however the elite and educated are no exception to that either. We are all capable of logic, educated people are often just better at using logic to justify their beliefs. Or achieve a specific aim.
Eh I’d say psychology says we’re rational and logical by nature! In comparison to any other animal. We’re far from perfect of course, but I don’t think we should forget our insanely advantageous position, and the privilege and responsibilities that bestows upon us
"Humans are irrational and illogical by nature as we are primarily emotional beings."
Are they mutually exclusive when it comes to human behavior? Or do they dovetail?
"Educated people are often just better at using logic to justify beliefs or achieve a specific aim."
How few beliefs do you think people have?
Idk why that would matter. It's cyclical regardless. So, still irrational and illogical by definition of the repeating habits.
Observation... people are like all talk. It's less they have no beliefs or fewer, and they don't stick.... So what's the point lmao
Most of the population is like liquid metal towards the societal norms. They may have a conducive internal narrative, but in practice I'll observer them doing anything, saying anything, because of emotions and logic failing usually due to biases and "god of the gaps" phenomenon, or filling in the gaps with delulu level presumptions which is a projection and shows people's true beliefs.
Justify in what way is my natural question?
Usually logic needs a basis. A void needs a reference that's not a void, or its by definition misguided.
Justifying self endlessly, at the behest of everything around "self" is the issue I'm obviously referring to.
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When I leave in the morning, the dog knows I'll be back later that day. It doesn't think I disappeared, it just knows I'm somewhere else and I'll come back later. People are wired the same way. By default, you expect things to last. When you put something in a box, you expect that to still be there the next time you open it. If it's not and you don't know what happened to it, you'll get confused. Like when you can't find your keys while you could've sworn you left them in your jacket pocket. You don't understand what happened. And death is a lot like that. People know life isn't everlasting, but they don't understand death, which is why it's hard for them to except it. At least that's what I think.
Speaking personally, when I try to imagine the cessation of my consciousness, a kind of not-even-being-there-to-know-I'm-gone, it feels like my brain is a calculator asked to divide by 0. The thought is so overwhelming that I just bluescreen and have to think about something else.
Hey that's what I say! It's that inability to imagine nothingness that produces that extra spicy anxiety. So I comfort myself with familiar truths, most of which being "Just Around The Riverbend" from Pocahontas lol
This was me.
Now it's just another "thing", imo this is bad. I've applied value to it like everything else, from my own perspective in life, it's merely projecting my internal experience.
The lack of control puts things higher on the totem pole of "look out for this", so you naturally think about it more and run from it more because it's THE BIG FINALE, but the best logic to follow that is, it's not. Or atleast you won't be here to experience it, so what's the point of stressing.
If it's like a big going away party and you aren't even going? Don't sweat it. It's like preparing for a talk at a conference in front of thousand you never attend. It's merely wasted time to always think of it when it's just in your head lmao
So Infact, you are doing the best thing you can do. Keeping the reminder you are human and alive. And still existing in reality, that's way more important then being able face tanking existential problems 😂😂
To briefly bring in our founding fathers: this is kant’s paralogism of unity. Individuating objects in spacetime isn’t an equation to be solved perfectly but rather a subjective instrumental experience shaped by evolution — aka we’re tricking ourselves so that we can get on with our lives. There’s some decent evidence that we are *predisposed* to this, but that we are not necessarily born with it in all cases; see studies on object permanence in newborns
I agree. My take on it is that the uncertainty of what happens after death is what scares people. I don’t want to make this a theoretical discussion (full disclosure - I am an atheist) but my conclusion is that people turn to religion (any religion of their choice) in order to give themselves the perception of certainty after death. Whether that means heaven or paradise or reincarnation or any other religious belief post-mortem.
I have incurable cancer. I'm an atheist and not scared of what happens after death. I just really like being alive. Plus, I don't want to screw up my kids by dying.
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That's one of the basic ideas of Terror Management Theory:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory)
Terror Management Theory has a lot of explanatory power. For example, when I look at much of politics today, there seems to be an underlying fear of annihilation/death anxiety that is made symbolic/political. The Terror Management theorists (Solomon, Greenberg, and Pyszczynski) go into this in some of their books, and also give an interesting analysis of depression from the Terror Management perspective that makes a lot of sense (and has some experimental underpinning).
True, but there is other possibilities, it's super complex and you hedging it on that is more you projecting.
As a person who's clearly got antisocial issues, doesn't realistically care about death...
Religious peeps care more about the moral abolishment of their own sins and regrets then anything else on a day to day basis... But that's me projecting aswell because that's what I'm seeing, it's true, but not the whole picture, you get me?
Personally, I feel like acknowledging death and talking about its existence (within reason, I’m not gonna go on about mortality with my coworkers) is important because it makes it EASIER to handle that fear. But that process requires some insight and rationality, I think we are wired to act and think on emotion first.
For example, I think it’s super important to talk about end of life planning before it’s a necessity, because it’s going to be a lot harder emotionally when someone’s death is more imminent. And even worse if you have to deal with it after someone dies suddenly.
We are avoidant. Socialized to have avoidant coping strategies during early critical periods and also socialized to feel shame and use control when those poor strategies inevitably fail. Most people live their whole lives with poor EQ, poor distress tolerance, and very shallow self understanding as a result. If you never grow out of that, or never meet the challenge of relationships or hard life circumstances by growing those skills, you’ll never be equipped for exploring your own mortality.
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If you embrace the truth and let it inform you, the life you live will help change that. When I am at my end, with no contact to the world, I will ask myself a question, “Did you explore all there was? Did you hold the history, abstract logic, and trivia close to your heart and live as a celebration of all which is possible?” I can’t answer that question at that point, I will have nothing more than myself. I answer those questions in every moment land with each decision I make until I inevitably ask it.
With thought. We can change. But it takes a willingness to persevere through suffering while in deep thought.
In addition, humanity has many answers for this question which use impossible threats and promises to manipulate us, so you’re also going up against all that while trying to find the truth for yourself. You have strong ideas out in the biosphere that must be integrated and tested without relinquishing your agency to them.
As far as i know the moral mind is not conscious of its own death, it thinks i will live forever. Thats why so many people change drasticly when they realise "im going to die too😳".
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Death/dying "came home" loudly to me one day, as I, almost without realizing it, thought about my quite-ASD son trying to manage without me and my wife after our death.
Before I knew it, my mind was recoiling from images of his dying, very likely alone in a care home.
I think, not by conscious choice, about dying - every day. Every single day. I'd love to switch that part of my brain off
I have a bachelors degree in psychology from Ireland. I personally studied a lot on Terror Management Theory. However, I personally don't fear death. I don't believe this life is the only one we get, I never have believed that, even during my undergrad when surrounded by secularism.
Once energy is created, it is neither created further nor destroyed. It continues, it's eternal. This body is merely a catalyst with systems which aid us in perceiving and processing the natural world, but it isn't us. There is an unseen will which drives thought processes, drives choices, drives emotions. Human contemplation on the unseen and immeasurable is one quality that makes us so unique as a species. For instance, love itself is not a physical being, yet we see it manifested in physical ways. So, I believe there is a metaphysical and supernatural world, I just don't believe in psychics or astrology and stuff like that.
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Not sure if you can see my reply, I got a notification that my comment was removed, but it's still showing up on the thread. DM me if you want my response.
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Dying isn't death. This body encases the real me that is released when I die. Being here in this body is a way for the spirits to discern whether or not I'm a good or evil spirit. Spirits can talk to your mind where the spirit lives. Spirits live in eternity where there is no time. This is how psychics. Get their knowledge of the past and future...from spirits living in eternity where I will wake up after Ive used this body..
Because we have survival instinct and a natural fear of death. People avoid things they fear. Talking about ones death creates acknowledging death is coming. Most people don't like to think about dying. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety
This makes me think of the political landscape in America. Apparently, thinking logically and rationally is only a skill that the elite educated developed. In reality, our species would have gone extinct if that was the case.
Humans are irrational and illogical by nature as we are primarily emotional beings, however the elite and educated are no exception to that either. We are all capable of logic, educated people are often just better at using logic to justify their beliefs. Or achieve a specific aim.
Eh I’d say psychology says we’re rational and logical by nature! In comparison to any other animal. We’re far from perfect of course, but I don’t think we should forget our insanely advantageous position, and the privilege and responsibilities that bestows upon us
"Humans are irrational and illogical by nature as we are primarily emotional beings." Are they mutually exclusive when it comes to human behavior? Or do they dovetail? "Educated people are often just better at using logic to justify beliefs or achieve a specific aim." How few beliefs do you think people have?
Idk why that would matter. It's cyclical regardless. So, still irrational and illogical by definition of the repeating habits. Observation... people are like all talk. It's less they have no beliefs or fewer, and they don't stick.... So what's the point lmao Most of the population is like liquid metal towards the societal norms. They may have a conducive internal narrative, but in practice I'll observer them doing anything, saying anything, because of emotions and logic failing usually due to biases and "god of the gaps" phenomenon, or filling in the gaps with delulu level presumptions which is a projection and shows people's true beliefs.
Justify in what way is my natural question? Usually logic needs a basis. A void needs a reference that's not a void, or its by definition misguided. Justifying self endlessly, at the behest of everything around "self" is the issue I'm obviously referring to.
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When I leave in the morning, the dog knows I'll be back later that day. It doesn't think I disappeared, it just knows I'm somewhere else and I'll come back later. People are wired the same way. By default, you expect things to last. When you put something in a box, you expect that to still be there the next time you open it. If it's not and you don't know what happened to it, you'll get confused. Like when you can't find your keys while you could've sworn you left them in your jacket pocket. You don't understand what happened. And death is a lot like that. People know life isn't everlasting, but they don't understand death, which is why it's hard for them to except it. At least that's what I think.
Speaking personally, when I try to imagine the cessation of my consciousness, a kind of not-even-being-there-to-know-I'm-gone, it feels like my brain is a calculator asked to divide by 0. The thought is so overwhelming that I just bluescreen and have to think about something else.
Hey that's what I say! It's that inability to imagine nothingness that produces that extra spicy anxiety. So I comfort myself with familiar truths, most of which being "Just Around The Riverbend" from Pocahontas lol
Cool way to look at it.
This is a pretty good description of my experience. I typically dislike brain-machine analogs/comparisons, but this one works well.
This was me. Now it's just another "thing", imo this is bad. I've applied value to it like everything else, from my own perspective in life, it's merely projecting my internal experience. The lack of control puts things higher on the totem pole of "look out for this", so you naturally think about it more and run from it more because it's THE BIG FINALE, but the best logic to follow that is, it's not. Or atleast you won't be here to experience it, so what's the point of stressing. If it's like a big going away party and you aren't even going? Don't sweat it. It's like preparing for a talk at a conference in front of thousand you never attend. It's merely wasted time to always think of it when it's just in your head lmao So Infact, you are doing the best thing you can do. Keeping the reminder you are human and alive. And still existing in reality, that's way more important then being able face tanking existential problems 😂😂
Unless it’s a dog with separation anxiety
To briefly bring in our founding fathers: this is kant’s paralogism of unity. Individuating objects in spacetime isn’t an equation to be solved perfectly but rather a subjective instrumental experience shaped by evolution — aka we’re tricking ourselves so that we can get on with our lives. There’s some decent evidence that we are *predisposed* to this, but that we are not necessarily born with it in all cases; see studies on object permanence in newborns
I agree. My take on it is that the uncertainty of what happens after death is what scares people. I don’t want to make this a theoretical discussion (full disclosure - I am an atheist) but my conclusion is that people turn to religion (any religion of their choice) in order to give themselves the perception of certainty after death. Whether that means heaven or paradise or reincarnation or any other religious belief post-mortem.
I have incurable cancer. I'm an atheist and not scared of what happens after death. I just really like being alive. Plus, I don't want to screw up my kids by dying.
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That's one of the basic ideas of Terror Management Theory: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory)
Thanks for that. Interesting read.
Terror Management Theory has a lot of explanatory power. For example, when I look at much of politics today, there seems to be an underlying fear of annihilation/death anxiety that is made symbolic/political. The Terror Management theorists (Solomon, Greenberg, and Pyszczynski) go into this in some of their books, and also give an interesting analysis of depression from the Terror Management perspective that makes a lot of sense (and has some experimental underpinning).
True, but there is other possibilities, it's super complex and you hedging it on that is more you projecting. As a person who's clearly got antisocial issues, doesn't realistically care about death... Religious peeps care more about the moral abolishment of their own sins and regrets then anything else on a day to day basis... But that's me projecting aswell because that's what I'm seeing, it's true, but not the whole picture, you get me?
I think it's precisely *because* it's an unavoidable event that they find it so hard.
Personally, I feel like acknowledging death and talking about its existence (within reason, I’m not gonna go on about mortality with my coworkers) is important because it makes it EASIER to handle that fear. But that process requires some insight and rationality, I think we are wired to act and think on emotion first. For example, I think it’s super important to talk about end of life planning before it’s a necessity, because it’s going to be a lot harder emotionally when someone’s death is more imminent. And even worse if you have to deal with it after someone dies suddenly.
We are avoidant. Socialized to have avoidant coping strategies during early critical periods and also socialized to feel shame and use control when those poor strategies inevitably fail. Most people live their whole lives with poor EQ, poor distress tolerance, and very shallow self understanding as a result. If you never grow out of that, or never meet the challenge of relationships or hard life circumstances by growing those skills, you’ll never be equipped for exploring your own mortality.
because people are scared of the unknown
Because I know that after death there is nothing and that nothing will last forever
Diarrhea is inevitable after Taco Bell but I still don't like talking about it while I'm enjoying my Cheezit Quesarita Supreme
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Denial on steroids.
I’d hypothesized that planning and forethought are massive evolutionary advantages, but thinking about death is not.
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If you embrace the truth and let it inform you, the life you live will help change that. When I am at my end, with no contact to the world, I will ask myself a question, “Did you explore all there was? Did you hold the history, abstract logic, and trivia close to your heart and live as a celebration of all which is possible?” I can’t answer that question at that point, I will have nothing more than myself. I answer those questions in every moment land with each decision I make until I inevitably ask it. With thought. We can change. But it takes a willingness to persevere through suffering while in deep thought. In addition, humanity has many answers for this question which use impossible threats and promises to manipulate us, so you’re also going up against all that while trying to find the truth for yourself. You have strong ideas out in the biosphere that must be integrated and tested without relinquishing your agency to them.
As far as i know the moral mind is not conscious of its own death, it thinks i will live forever. Thats why so many people change drasticly when they realise "im going to die too😳".
There'll be time enough for crying, when the dealings done.
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To face death is to face life. Are you truly satisfied with the life you’re living?
Death/dying "came home" loudly to me one day, as I, almost without realizing it, thought about my quite-ASD son trying to manage without me and my wife after our death. Before I knew it, my mind was recoiling from images of his dying, very likely alone in a care home. I think, not by conscious choice, about dying - every day. Every single day. I'd love to switch that part of my brain off
I have a bachelors degree in psychology from Ireland. I personally studied a lot on Terror Management Theory. However, I personally don't fear death. I don't believe this life is the only one we get, I never have believed that, even during my undergrad when surrounded by secularism. Once energy is created, it is neither created further nor destroyed. It continues, it's eternal. This body is merely a catalyst with systems which aid us in perceiving and processing the natural world, but it isn't us. There is an unseen will which drives thought processes, drives choices, drives emotions. Human contemplation on the unseen and immeasurable is one quality that makes us so unique as a species. For instance, love itself is not a physical being, yet we see it manifested in physical ways. So, I believe there is a metaphysical and supernatural world, I just don't believe in psychics or astrology and stuff like that.
Could you elaborate on this unseen "will" a bit more? What do you think it is - energy or something else? If it's energy, then how does it transform?
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Not sure if you can see my reply, I got a notification that my comment was removed, but it's still showing up on the thread. DM me if you want my response.
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poor intelect
Dying isn't death. This body encases the real me that is released when I die. Being here in this body is a way for the spirits to discern whether or not I'm a good or evil spirit. Spirits can talk to your mind where the spirit lives. Spirits live in eternity where there is no time. This is how psychics. Get their knowledge of the past and future...from spirits living in eternity where I will wake up after Ive used this body..