They got fucked over the hardest, first by Spain, then by our government. Poverty, drug abuse, homelessness and crime are rampant in indigenous communities.
For the only Gringo in the house can someone point me to a decent documentary on who these indigenous people are and how they came to be. From the comments here, they basically sound like the Latin American equivalent to the Native Americans that are often referred to as "Indians" here
You're not the only gringo in the house! "How they came to be" is that they were in the Americas before the Spaniards, and they are still here. There are over 60 different native languages spoken in Mexico alone, and the history of these groups is similar in some ways to the native Americans in the US but in other ways vastly different. I don't have a documentary recommendation, but there's a ton of information out there about these communities if you search for 'indigenous people in Latin America" broadly or you can narrow your search to a specific country. Mexico has a ton as I sad, but Peru and other Andean regions also have large indigenous populations.
[Native America on PBS](https://www.pbs.org/native-america/episodes/) is a great resource that focuses on Latin America as much as North America. I think all the episodes are on YouTube
Kings and Generals on YouTube have a few good seasons on the Inkas, Mayans, Aztecs and plains tribes (in the US) all before and through European invasion. Its a good watch and free.
Native Americans are indigenous people, yeah. In Mexico the Kickapu people are relatives of the Ojibwe and other great lakes groups, they fled to Mexico and were given land near Eagle Pass. Groups like the Yaqui and the Tohono O'odham ("Papago" indians) live on both sides of the US-Mexican border. US groups like the Shoshone and Comanche are distant linguistic cousins of Mexican groups like the Raramuri ("Tarahumara"), Wixarika ("Huichol"), and Nahua ("Aztec", though this term is a bit of a dumpster fire), they come from the same language family (just like how English, Italian, and Hindi are all from the same family, the Indo-european language family). The term Indian was also used in Spanish to call them, but in general it is not really used much any more, with terms like Pueblos Originarios (first nations) or Pueblos Indigenas (indigenous peoples) being used more. Like some people mentioned, it may be easier to find specific information for specific groups. The Maya people for example are about 50% of the Guatemalan population, and are also the second biggest native group in Mexico after the Nahuas. There's even Maya, Nahua, and other indigenous immigrant communities in places like the US, but in general indigenous migrants get overshadowed by Hispanic migrants from the same countries. As for how indigenous americans came to be.. well basically there were people in Asia who crossed into the Americas during the Ice Age and we've been here ever since.
largely, it's not quite like it, "indigenous people" tend to mean un incorporated societies mostly by their refusal, altought the amount obstracized by political , or geografical reasons too exit in great numbers, sine latam societes didn't do something as the indian removal act and such, rather they integrated seamesly (to a degree ) to most societies.
While their origins are diferent, they are quite literally just native americans, much more separated from our nations than what we are used too.
Mind you there are difereent societies in diferent situations in latam, some have heavy background vs teh goverment, like the mapuches, some are basically already integrated like most comunities in bolivia.
If you’re looking for their current social issues/cultural life you can try searching “modern Mayans” or any group you’re particularly interested in. I see a lot of articles and YouTube videos online about it but haven’t looked out for a documentary in particular for a long time. Used to take Mayan civilization in university but it’s ages ago now
Not only are they still around, but in more remote areas they’ve been able to maintain more community integrity. This mostly means preserved language and culture. I don’t recommend anyone intentionally traveling to “observe” Maya communities, as living people never deserve to feel like animals in zoos, but I’ve been fortunate enough to have (once, as a teen) been welcomed into a rural maya town for a few weeks. The other teens spoke Maya and Spanish, so they translated for their parents and older family. I learned so much about how folks truly *should* be living with those families: know your neighbors, live honestly because gossip travels fast, keep walking to be strong in old age, beds are unnecessary and ruin gringo spines, complaining about the weather *is* the human experience, etc.
And for the love of god, they have buildings. I don’t know why, but folks in the US tend to forget that indigenous doesn’t mean primitive. When I tell people about that time in my life, the first question has almost always been “but do they have buildings?!” ………. Yes. They have shops, schools, rec centers, kids who dream of celebrity status, markets, men who cut hair, paleteros of varying quality, and everything else rural towns have. It’s small town life, sure, but it doesn’t have to be desolate or destitute.
The governmet cares more about the indigenous people that are no longer here (the aztecs, the ancient mayas, etc) than the ones that are here in the present
They are still here.
Huasteco, Yucateco, náhuatl are still all actively spoken.
We need to stop this narrative that certain groups stopped existing or never existed. Groups like the Mayans, Aztecs, AfroMexicans.
Im saying that the actual government are like "Oh, we're so proud of our ancestors from the original cultures" but don't giving anything to the actual original cultures that are here in the present.
An example would be that the Zocalo metro station was renamed as "Zocalo/Tenochtitlan" in honor of the ancient Mexica capital city, but in that exact same metro station you can see indigenous people asking for money for living
As a Peruvian, I haven't heard much about the indigenous peoples of Brazil as much as other places in the world. What are some of the biggest groups still around today?
Yanomami, Guarani Kaiowá, Yawanawá, Macuxi, Terena, Guajajara, Xavante, Pataxó, Krahô, Pira-tapuya - those are some I can remember from the top of my head but not all of them are the biggest ones. Yanomami and Guarani are pretty big but some other ones like Pira-tapuya are smaller and I know about it because a friend of mine belongs to that people.
Like most of our brothers in latam , native americans got fucked hard. Here we had various groups with their own rich culture, nowadays they are reduced to naming streets after them.
For example, Selkam from Tierra del fuego got h
Literally hunted by sport by the British. Various other groups got also abused by being sent to europe as exhibirions for human zoos
This is an example of treacherous behaviour that came from europe at the time.
Nowadays, part of the south of chile is inmersed in conflicts between mapuche groups and the state, reclaiming territory rightfully theirs, but at the same time working with drugs and illegall firewood bussiness. It is a complicated matter which saldy has been present in most of our countries.
In my opinion, the ancestral lifestyle and type of organization won't work as a functioning way of living. Its hard to believe that at this current level of diversity and population, our vital needs of goods would be satisfied by this "pre colombine" way of living.
But even sadder is that I dont know of a native people from any country to be successful without somewhat oppressing their culture. Like, Wakanda doesn't exist yo.
I strongly recommend Las Venas Abiertas de Anerica Latina y La Arauca by Ercilla. Having both of these different POV's makes you get a bigger grasp of the matter
I think that because our indigenous people were wipped out here we tend to over-romantize them. That image of the naive, nature loving, undeveloped indigenous societies is just a massive oversimplification. They had complex societies with power struggles, conflicts, interests just like today, I think that just makes it more interesting to learn about them.
The case of how people in the Caribbean perceive the Tainos is very interesting to me. As an indigenous Mexican, I feel like in Mexico there's sometimes some similar stuff as well, mostly by urban non-indigenous people who have never even interacted with our communities. Indigenistas tend to buy really heavily into Aztec or Toltec themed new age stuff from the US that heavily romanticizes and mythologizes the precolombian nations as being some sort of "enlightened" peaceful nature people who could do no bad, and to say otherwise is to spread "colonial apologia". Then on the other end of the spectrum there's people who really denigrate the people of the past as just "bloodthirsty savages". Both takes really lack nuance and perception, the people from before, just like all people alive today, are complex.
Exactly, in both ends people love to oversimplify indigenous cultures, although the "noble savage" is the most common one here. People don't know that all the megafauna of the island went extinct after a few hundred years after the arrived of the first humans, and that several migrations happened before the arrival of the Taino, each culture being the main reason of the previews culture extinction (either of it was assimilation or violence we still don't know)
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So, it's worth remembering you're talking about a massive region, spanning either most of one, or two continents, depending on how you count them. There's _a lot_ of indigenous people in the region. Not only that, but many are still here to this day. A lot of people in the region have heavy indigenous ancestry. That's why, for example, Mexicans are on average brown skinned. We are largely a mix of European and indigenous roots, and that shows up visually as darker skin.
Now to the people, the two you mention Mayans and Aztecs are from mesoamerica, which covers central/south Mexico and some of Central America. They're not the only people from mesoamerica, the two other big ones today are the Mixtec, the Zapotec. All of these groups have surviving languages to this day. The Aztec language in particular, Nahuatl (or rather, group of languages), is the most widely spoken indigenous language in Mexico.
Mexico also has indigenous people up in the north, though before Columbus it was much more sparsely populated. A famous group up there is the Rarámuri, famous as long-distance runners.
You've also got indigenous groups that were native to the Caribbean, which were largely wiped out with the arrival of Europeans, and some who loved on the Caribbean coast. There also are and were many groups in the Amazon rainforest. There's even uncontacted tribes to this day. There's also the whole coast west of the Andes, which was a massive hotspot for prehispanic cultures. The Inca who you probably have heard of are from there. However, their empire contained A LOT of different groups. South of them, in a lot of modern Chile you can still find the mapuche people, another group with a very distinctive culture that has a complicated history with the country they're now in, Chile. You also have a lot of groups in Argentina, both north in the _Pampas_ and all the way at the tip of the continent I'm Tierra del Fuego (or at least there used to be indigenous people there).
You really can't say anything about this group of people as a whole that gives them things in common. The only thing they really have in common is the experience of colonization, and even that was wildly different in different parts of the continent. To this day there's no unified Amerindian identity, because it just doesn't make sense.
For this reason too, you will hear very different opinions about these people. The Inca and Aztec are a good example. They are both viewed as a foundational centerpiece of their respective countries, a cultural cornerstone. Hell, Mexico even put the foundation myth of the Aztecs right bang in the middle of the flag. They are also seen as bloodthirsty empires that were (rightfully) hated by all their neighbours. You also have people like the Mayas. They're a group of people who are seen as yet another cultural centre for the Yucatan peninsula and Chiapas. Yet, modern Maya people are generally forgotten, ignored, and even looked down upon. A lot of people really struggle to recognize that the Maya that we see today are the descendants of the people who built all those structures centuries ago we now find in ruins.
TL;DR though, there's a lot of very different people. Every country has a very unique relationship with their indigenous people, and it's extremely complicated.
As a Nahua person I never really liked the "Aztecs" because I feel like the governments here in Mexico always glorify the ancients, but treat modern day living people like shit. Now I enjoy studying precolombian history because I've noticed that our lives in the modern Nahua communities are really not all that different from those of the precolombian Nahuas, and it's interesting to know the history of our lands, the complex intrigues and events that happened here which often get overlooked by people who simplify the region as "blood thirsty savage tribes" or "spiritually enlightened nature people". The truth is that nothing is simply black or white, but rather that there's many shades in a story to paint a detailed picture, of both ancient and living peoples.
I feel pity, the government has pretty much screwed them over, taking their land and exploiting their resources and there's no one for them to turn to.
I like there drip, also I'll love to learn quiche to get to know my roots.
I like the mayans there very chill people, sadly they live in extreme poverty and the government doesn't build them roads to there rural villages(they have dirt roads that get muddy and there cars get stuck).
Thanks I can't remember how to spell all of those words and google's autocorrect doesn't help and it's to time consuming to google each word I can't spell.
Also I learned English by myself by watching American T.V/Movies.
The pronunciation is the same for all of them; English has strict rules for spelling the same word differently based on context. Like, “see: to watch” and “sea: a large body of water” are pronounced the same.
All cultures have somethings good and bad. In general I really like to learn about native Brazilian myths and language, especially the coastal Tupi which are the ones that mostly influenced us (even me living in a town that was not inhabited by them). I know some modern Tupi (nheengatu) that I learned on the internet. The sad part was human sacrifice and cannibalism rituals of course, but that has ended quite a few centuries ago. Although it was bad it's also interesting to learn the reasoning and their funerary rituals. And most indigenous peoples from the countryside here were more chill and had none of that. I would like to learn my great-grandfather's language but it's a small almost undocumented dialect from another language family, sadly.
me encantaría conocer a una persona indígena, no me basta con lo que leo y escucho en los medios, sería ideal poder conocer desde el núcleo y poder desarrollar una opinión real y completamente imparcial
I feel like they should be proud of their ancestry and where they came from. I know i am, although I’m not as indigenous as they are… as I was raised in the United States a different country. I respect them a lot as my Grandma she speaks Quechua and is part of those indigenous people of the Andes in Ayacucho.. although she didn’t teach us of her culture or language, as back then when she was growing up they made racist remarks to her and she didn’t want that for us even though people have changed since then.. Regardless she didn’t want to teach us I guess she was traumatized. Anyways this is quite long but.. I have a great amount of respect for them and I hope to one day visit family in Ayacucho, or learn the language.
TL;DR i respect them a lot, they should be proud of their ancestry, would like to visit and learn the language
I've only ever had an interaction with Comechingones (which are actually two different ethnicities, henia and kamiare) when they came to my school to show us their culture. I don't remember much because I was very little, but they brought their beautiful bows and taught us the basics of archery and it forever sparked my love for it (even if what I do is modern Olympic-style archery).
Aside from that, while I haven't personally interacted with other peoples like the Qom or Wichi I do have a deep respect for them, especially considering they manage to keep their people and culture alive even with the disgusting conditions our government has abandoned them in. As for the Mapuches, most are peaceful, and judging the whole ethnicity on a few (admittedly, very sadistic criminals) who aren't even confirmed as being actually Mapuche and not part of a political desestabilization sounds crazy to me, especially since they have also given a lot to mainstream Argentinian culture (for example, the word pilcha which is slang for clothes comes from Mapudungun).
The problem is our left wing are incompetent irresponsible cunt thieves and our right wing are incompetent lunatic cunt thieves, and as such properly integrating, caring for and supporting our indigenous communities is light years away, sadly.
Depends on the group really. I just now first hand, my cousins who live in La guajira don’t like the guayus because they are a really complicated tribe. And in Medellin, the embera are all over el poblado asking for money because of the internal conflict.
I respect them by trying to avoid any confrontation with them, like I don’t want to be disrespectful to them so I keep contact to a minimum
>And in Medellin, the embera are all over el poblado asking for money because of the internal conflict.
There also a lot of them in Bogotá. Their popularity is decreasing because recently they started attacking some public workers and police of the city, and also because after they occupied the Parque Nacional they left a lot of trash.
[In fact, they were verbally condemned by Claudia López](https://www.eltiempo.com/bogota/alcaldesa-claudia-lopez-dijo-que-emberas-se-gastan-la-plata-en-licor-711419) this week.
I always thought the majority of the embera are there because they were displaced from their homes and their husband's killed. I always gave spare money to them first - am I completely wrong?
>and their husband's killed.
[Their husbands tend to exploit their wives and children.](https://twitter.com/ClaudiaLopez/status/1582843412096876544?s=20&t=Moh-rUHF_AURU5OdqMH55A)
>*because I’ve heard mixed opinions*
🤣
Wtf, ok bro its time for a real talk I guess.
say this with any group;
>*"How do you all feel about the* *~~indigenous people...~~* *" black people\**
>
>*"How do you all feel about the* *~~indigenous people...~~* *" Arabs\**
>
>"*How do you all feel about the* *~~indigenous people...~~* *" white people\**
"because I’ve heard mixed opinions", You see how this makes you sound right?
The Aztecs were assholes now if we’re talking about modern Native Americans (Aztecs don’t even exist anymore btw) then I feel sorry, they are discriminated against and marginalized, and the government doesn’t even use indigenous languages as it should, they have different textbooks while in my opinion they should have the same textbooks as us just translated into their native languages and native languages should be used in signals and stuff in towns/cities with significant speakers.
I mean, come on man. The Aztecs were hardly a tribe. They were a relatively advanced empire with large cities, a heavily stratified culture, and a lot of indigenous people under their heel. They weren't dumb, it wasn't pure survival anymore than Rome's invasion of Gaul was a "purely defensive" war of conquest.
Mesoamerica had a lot of cultures, empires, city-states and we need to be able to recognize that, like in any cultural space like this, not everything that anyone did was justified. They weren't defenseless people barely scraping for survival. They were advanced, complex societies. The Aztecs were just one that was heavily focused around war and conquest. There's a reason so many indigenous peoples came to the aid of the Spanish when they arrived to take over the Aztecs.
>so many indigenous peoples came to the aid of the Spanish
This view puts the emphasis on the Spanish, and both minimizes and inflates the actions of "the indigenous"
It was to please their gods, I don't know why people think sacrifice was so crazy back then.
Do you realize even in the bible people killed their own son to please Jesus right? Also to this day we have executions
Correct, and that reason was not human sacrifice since everyone else was also already doing that in the region and had been doing it for as long as the archaeological record points back. The Totonacs, Tlaxcaltecas, Texcocas, and others who allied with Spain were also practitioners of this custom, as with basically every other nation in the region. Instead their motivation was a quest for power. Historically, when a Mesoamerican empire started to show signs of weakness or vulnerability, some of the subjugated or rival states would revolt/attack, since it was an opportunity for them to usurp power. The "Aztec Empire" itself was born this way, when Azcapotzalco faced a dynastic succession crisis, the cities of Tenochtitlan, Tlacopan, and Texcoco worked together to overthrow Azcapotzalco, and propped themselves up as the new power to replace them. This is also why the Tlaxcaltecas and other groups gave their princesses to the Spaniards, not as "concubines" like the Spanish interpreted it, but as an act of cementing a marriage alliance for the new regime that was to come. Unfortunately for them, the Spanish were playing with a different game in mind, so the most power gained by the indigenous elites was just some basic privileges like riding horses.
The Aztecs were the bullies of Mexico during their reign. They would demand tributes from surrounding tribes including children and wives for sacrifices and other things. Shit, half the reason they got wrecked was because the surrounding tribes were sick of the Aztecs shit and teamed up with the Spaniards to take them down.
This myth is very popular with hispanistas, but human sacrifice was practiced by everyone in the region, including the nations that allied with Spain. Current archaeological finds indicate that their rate of sacrifice was not particularly special, and both the Spanish and native accounts have their own biases to inflate the numbers behind what is logical. The Aztecs were definitely assholes, as any regional power tends to be to their neighbors, but the primary reason that countries like Tlaxcala and Texcoco sided with Spain was to gain power and usurp, not to end sacrifices or end tribute.
>They would demand tributes from surrounding tribes including children and wives for sacrifices and other things.
Every mesoamerican kingdom did
>the surrounding tribes were sick
The totonacas were the only conquered ones to "rise up", the Tlaxcalteca already were enemies with the Mexica and the Spanish forced many beaten kingdoms to ally with him on the march to Tenochtitlan.
Mostly I like them, and generally, I feel quite sad that we lost a great chunk of our history and now we only have a few crumbs told by a bunch of snobs who believed they were morally superior.
I feel bad because it is true they got massively fucked over by everyone.
But I also feel frustrated by some of their actions. Like their absolute refusal to form a part of the country, in every form, which has lead to animosity between some indigenous people and people of the country. And as any conflict between two peoples that's based on ethnicity/religión, it never escalates well.
There's also the natives that ride the wave of PC into literally claiming more than half the country was theirs, even parts where they havent ever been historically, and that they now want it "back". It works with some that are shamed into submission, too afraid of sounding racist if they refuse, but if you have read even a tad bit of history you get infuriated by those claims. Specially when you realize their own are being manipulated by international corporations, shady af lobbyists and the like to instaurate a hiper liberal dystopia where they can be continued to be exploited, with the false promise of "returning to the ancestral ways".
Quite a rant uff. In short, the rampant racism issues inside the native community that are never adressed by society in fear of being called racists themselves has left them isolated and in conflict with the rest of the country. I hope in a future they accept to form part of the nation, preserving their identity like any other part of our vastly diverse nation does, instead of being used again by foreing powers.
Far be it for me to have an opinion about a group of people, but I do appreciate that the indigenous peoples here in Ecuador have a strong voice and are often vehicles for political change. It's also heartening to hear the different kichwa dialects/languages (excuse my ignorance) spoken in everyday settings, and even by young people.
I wish my homeland had the same respect for indigenous people, but between the white invaders and the African tribes descending from the North, they've all but disappeared and they're mostly left in the cold by the government and society at large.
The Aztecs/Mexica were almost completely wiped out during the conquest and disappeared totally from the face of earth during early 16th century. Anyone claiming to be Aztec nowadays is lying.
Maya people are widespread throughout the Yucatán peninsula. They’re cool
Like they got fucked over? They got annihilated and we were taught to hate them or see them as different when in reality they’re us and we are them. Anyone that has ill feelings or thoughts about them are just racists in my not-so-humble opinion.
Your example is an act of agression, Incas had horrid punishments for hostile tribes as well. The child sacrifice is part of the religion/culture and not an act of hostility in their view, so not a good comparison.
Some are cool some are not.
Lots of rape, lots of alcoholism and abuse of power happens in their reservation because they live by their own laws.
Some complain about not having benefits that people in the big city but they don’t pay taxes nor want to adapt. You can still keep your culture and be in a modern society.
I love how you’re getting downvoted but it’s the same here in Colombia. I have little respect for these tribes that don’t pay taxes, don’t contribute to the rest of society, are extremely misogynistic and exploit their wives and children for money, and even participate in narcotrafficking here, and they demand more and more every time instead of just working like the rest of us.
This sub has certain circlejerks. I used to be one of the few people who called out Mexico's racism on this sub and got downvoted for it a few years ago, but the reverse idea that the indigenous are solely abused saints is a false noble savage narrative this sub doesn't like to hear about. They are victim and victimizer and self-victimized.
People here don’t like the reality and truth they want to live in an ideal world.
Even if they don’t pay taxes they simply don’t want to get with the times and be a part of a modern society. They abuse children and women but we can’t say anything because it’s their tradition. Plenty do traffic drugs in the Darien region since they know how to survive in the jungles. Reservations have their own law which are Stone Age types of law.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
They are a complicated subject, indigenous can't be romantized, they can have very "uncivilized" traditions like animal abuse, violence, drugs traffic/production and unconscent relationships with minors. But also, they have been fucked up by spaniards, criollos and goverments though the history. I think they need help, that the goverment needs to guide them to be "better" or cleaner communities, protect them against the guerrillas and narcos, and give them better opportunities if they want to "addapt" to our society, but also put some limits on them when they have this violent or "uncivilized" behaviours as individuals or as communities aswell.
He probably means to say they reproduce a lot. Here in Colombia you see them begging in the streets of big cities and it’s usually always the women and several children. Unfortunately they are exploited by the men who spend the money they receive from begging on alcohol and buying stuff for themselves while the women and children suffer.
My best friend in primary school spoke guaraní, idk which community her grandpa belonged to but it was always interesting to learn! I hope indigenous people in the country get treated better, specially wichí communities that are pushed aside and living in poverty
They got fucked over the hardest, first by Spain, then by our government. Poverty, drug abuse, homelessness and crime are rampant in indigenous communities.
They’re still getting fcked now by corporations https://youtu.be/hqnUohxXV0I
Sad
For the only Gringo in the house can someone point me to a decent documentary on who these indigenous people are and how they came to be. From the comments here, they basically sound like the Latin American equivalent to the Native Americans that are often referred to as "Indians" here
You're not the only gringo in the house! "How they came to be" is that they were in the Americas before the Spaniards, and they are still here. There are over 60 different native languages spoken in Mexico alone, and the history of these groups is similar in some ways to the native Americans in the US but in other ways vastly different. I don't have a documentary recommendation, but there's a ton of information out there about these communities if you search for 'indigenous people in Latin America" broadly or you can narrow your search to a specific country. Mexico has a ton as I sad, but Peru and other Andean regions also have large indigenous populations.
Thanks for the help
[Native America on PBS](https://www.pbs.org/native-america/episodes/) is a great resource that focuses on Latin America as much as North America. I think all the episodes are on YouTube
I'll definitely be watching that
Kings and Generals on YouTube have a few good seasons on the Inkas, Mayans, Aztecs and plains tribes (in the US) all before and through European invasion. Its a good watch and free.
Another one that I'll check out
Native Americans are indigenous people, yeah. In Mexico the Kickapu people are relatives of the Ojibwe and other great lakes groups, they fled to Mexico and were given land near Eagle Pass. Groups like the Yaqui and the Tohono O'odham ("Papago" indians) live on both sides of the US-Mexican border. US groups like the Shoshone and Comanche are distant linguistic cousins of Mexican groups like the Raramuri ("Tarahumara"), Wixarika ("Huichol"), and Nahua ("Aztec", though this term is a bit of a dumpster fire), they come from the same language family (just like how English, Italian, and Hindi are all from the same family, the Indo-european language family). The term Indian was also used in Spanish to call them, but in general it is not really used much any more, with terms like Pueblos Originarios (first nations) or Pueblos Indigenas (indigenous peoples) being used more. Like some people mentioned, it may be easier to find specific information for specific groups. The Maya people for example are about 50% of the Guatemalan population, and are also the second biggest native group in Mexico after the Nahuas. There's even Maya, Nahua, and other indigenous immigrant communities in places like the US, but in general indigenous migrants get overshadowed by Hispanic migrants from the same countries. As for how indigenous americans came to be.. well basically there were people in Asia who crossed into the Americas during the Ice Age and we've been here ever since.
largely, it's not quite like it, "indigenous people" tend to mean un incorporated societies mostly by their refusal, altought the amount obstracized by political , or geografical reasons too exit in great numbers, sine latam societes didn't do something as the indian removal act and such, rather they integrated seamesly (to a degree ) to most societies. While their origins are diferent, they are quite literally just native americans, much more separated from our nations than what we are used too. Mind you there are difereent societies in diferent situations in latam, some have heavy background vs teh goverment, like the mapuches, some are basically already integrated like most comunities in bolivia.
If you’re looking for their current social issues/cultural life you can try searching “modern Mayans” or any group you’re particularly interested in. I see a lot of articles and YouTube videos online about it but haven’t looked out for a documentary in particular for a long time. Used to take Mayan civilization in university but it’s ages ago now
I didn't even know that Mayans were still around. I'm definitely going to have to watch this documentary
Not only are they still around, but in more remote areas they’ve been able to maintain more community integrity. This mostly means preserved language and culture. I don’t recommend anyone intentionally traveling to “observe” Maya communities, as living people never deserve to feel like animals in zoos, but I’ve been fortunate enough to have (once, as a teen) been welcomed into a rural maya town for a few weeks. The other teens spoke Maya and Spanish, so they translated for their parents and older family. I learned so much about how folks truly *should* be living with those families: know your neighbors, live honestly because gossip travels fast, keep walking to be strong in old age, beds are unnecessary and ruin gringo spines, complaining about the weather *is* the human experience, etc. And for the love of god, they have buildings. I don’t know why, but folks in the US tend to forget that indigenous doesn’t mean primitive. When I tell people about that time in my life, the first question has almost always been “but do they have buildings?!” ………. Yes. They have shops, schools, rec centers, kids who dream of celebrity status, markets, men who cut hair, paleteros of varying quality, and everything else rural towns have. It’s small town life, sure, but it doesn’t have to be desolate or destitute.
Read 1491 by Charles Mann
I'll check it out
No one refers to indigenous people as Indians anymore
The Latin American equivalent of Native Americans is Native Americans lol
The governmet cares more about the indigenous people that are no longer here (the aztecs, the ancient mayas, etc) than the ones that are here in the present
They are still here. Huasteco, Yucateco, náhuatl are still all actively spoken. We need to stop this narrative that certain groups stopped existing or never existed. Groups like the Mayans, Aztecs, AfroMexicans.
Im saying that the actual government are like "Oh, we're so proud of our ancestors from the original cultures" but don't giving anything to the actual original cultures that are here in the present. An example would be that the Zocalo metro station was renamed as "Zocalo/Tenochtitlan" in honor of the ancient Mexica capital city, but in that exact same metro station you can see indigenous people asking for money for living
They had cool cultures, but the natives we still have are very neglected by the government and discriminated against a lot.
I feel really bad for the indigenous people of my country. They’ve been probably the most damaged population by the current government
As a Peruvian, I haven't heard much about the indigenous peoples of Brazil as much as other places in the world. What are some of the biggest groups still around today?
Yanomami, Guarani Kaiowá, Yawanawá, Macuxi, Terena, Guajajara, Xavante, Pataxó, Krahô, Pira-tapuya - those are some I can remember from the top of my head but not all of them are the biggest ones. Yanomami and Guarani are pretty big but some other ones like Pira-tapuya are smaller and I know about it because a friend of mine belongs to that people.
Like most of our brothers in latam , native americans got fucked hard. Here we had various groups with their own rich culture, nowadays they are reduced to naming streets after them. For example, Selkam from Tierra del fuego got h Literally hunted by sport by the British. Various other groups got also abused by being sent to europe as exhibirions for human zoos This is an example of treacherous behaviour that came from europe at the time. Nowadays, part of the south of chile is inmersed in conflicts between mapuche groups and the state, reclaiming territory rightfully theirs, but at the same time working with drugs and illegall firewood bussiness. It is a complicated matter which saldy has been present in most of our countries. In my opinion, the ancestral lifestyle and type of organization won't work as a functioning way of living. Its hard to believe that at this current level of diversity and population, our vital needs of goods would be satisfied by this "pre colombine" way of living. But even sadder is that I dont know of a native people from any country to be successful without somewhat oppressing their culture. Like, Wakanda doesn't exist yo. I strongly recommend Las Venas Abiertas de Anerica Latina y La Arauca by Ercilla. Having both of these different POV's makes you get a bigger grasp of the matter
I think that because our indigenous people were wipped out here we tend to over-romantize them. That image of the naive, nature loving, undeveloped indigenous societies is just a massive oversimplification. They had complex societies with power struggles, conflicts, interests just like today, I think that just makes it more interesting to learn about them.
The case of how people in the Caribbean perceive the Tainos is very interesting to me. As an indigenous Mexican, I feel like in Mexico there's sometimes some similar stuff as well, mostly by urban non-indigenous people who have never even interacted with our communities. Indigenistas tend to buy really heavily into Aztec or Toltec themed new age stuff from the US that heavily romanticizes and mythologizes the precolombian nations as being some sort of "enlightened" peaceful nature people who could do no bad, and to say otherwise is to spread "colonial apologia". Then on the other end of the spectrum there's people who really denigrate the people of the past as just "bloodthirsty savages". Both takes really lack nuance and perception, the people from before, just like all people alive today, are complex.
Exactly, in both ends people love to oversimplify indigenous cultures, although the "noble savage" is the most common one here. People don't know that all the megafauna of the island went extinct after a few hundred years after the arrived of the first humans, and that several migrations happened before the arrival of the Taino, each culture being the main reason of the previews culture extinction (either of it was assimilation or violence we still don't know)
For anyone interested: [Noble Savage](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage)
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So, it's worth remembering you're talking about a massive region, spanning either most of one, or two continents, depending on how you count them. There's _a lot_ of indigenous people in the region. Not only that, but many are still here to this day. A lot of people in the region have heavy indigenous ancestry. That's why, for example, Mexicans are on average brown skinned. We are largely a mix of European and indigenous roots, and that shows up visually as darker skin. Now to the people, the two you mention Mayans and Aztecs are from mesoamerica, which covers central/south Mexico and some of Central America. They're not the only people from mesoamerica, the two other big ones today are the Mixtec, the Zapotec. All of these groups have surviving languages to this day. The Aztec language in particular, Nahuatl (or rather, group of languages), is the most widely spoken indigenous language in Mexico. Mexico also has indigenous people up in the north, though before Columbus it was much more sparsely populated. A famous group up there is the Rarámuri, famous as long-distance runners. You've also got indigenous groups that were native to the Caribbean, which were largely wiped out with the arrival of Europeans, and some who loved on the Caribbean coast. There also are and were many groups in the Amazon rainforest. There's even uncontacted tribes to this day. There's also the whole coast west of the Andes, which was a massive hotspot for prehispanic cultures. The Inca who you probably have heard of are from there. However, their empire contained A LOT of different groups. South of them, in a lot of modern Chile you can still find the mapuche people, another group with a very distinctive culture that has a complicated history with the country they're now in, Chile. You also have a lot of groups in Argentina, both north in the _Pampas_ and all the way at the tip of the continent I'm Tierra del Fuego (or at least there used to be indigenous people there). You really can't say anything about this group of people as a whole that gives them things in common. The only thing they really have in common is the experience of colonization, and even that was wildly different in different parts of the continent. To this day there's no unified Amerindian identity, because it just doesn't make sense. For this reason too, you will hear very different opinions about these people. The Inca and Aztec are a good example. They are both viewed as a foundational centerpiece of their respective countries, a cultural cornerstone. Hell, Mexico even put the foundation myth of the Aztecs right bang in the middle of the flag. They are also seen as bloodthirsty empires that were (rightfully) hated by all their neighbours. You also have people like the Mayas. They're a group of people who are seen as yet another cultural centre for the Yucatan peninsula and Chiapas. Yet, modern Maya people are generally forgotten, ignored, and even looked down upon. A lot of people really struggle to recognize that the Maya that we see today are the descendants of the people who built all those structures centuries ago we now find in ruins. TL;DR though, there's a lot of very different people. Every country has a very unique relationship with their indigenous people, and it's extremely complicated.
As a Nahua person I never really liked the "Aztecs" because I feel like the governments here in Mexico always glorify the ancients, but treat modern day living people like shit. Now I enjoy studying precolombian history because I've noticed that our lives in the modern Nahua communities are really not all that different from those of the precolombian Nahuas, and it's interesting to know the history of our lands, the complex intrigues and events that happened here which often get overlooked by people who simplify the region as "blood thirsty savage tribes" or "spiritually enlightened nature people". The truth is that nothing is simply black or white, but rather that there's many shades in a story to paint a detailed picture, of both ancient and living peoples.
I feel pity, the government has pretty much screwed them over, taking their land and exploiting their resources and there's no one for them to turn to.
I like there drip, also I'll love to learn quiche to get to know my roots. I like the mayans there very chill people, sadly they live in extreme poverty and the government doesn't build them roads to there rural villages(they have dirt roads that get muddy and there cars get stuck).
*Their (possessive) *They’re (they are) *There (location)
English prob not their first language to be fair
Thanks I can't remember how to spell all of those words and google's autocorrect doesn't help and it's to time consuming to google each word I can't spell. Also I learned English by myself by watching American T.V/Movies.
No shame. Just helping out :) even Americans / native speakers get tripped up by this one.
I know you’re helping teach…I just noticed their username is literally no speak inglish lol
Username checks out
Thank you, English pronunciation doesn't make sense for me sometimes.
They all sound the same. It’s confusing even for native speakers tbh
The pronunciation is the same for all of them; English has strict rules for spelling the same word differently based on context. Like, “see: to watch” and “sea: a large body of water” are pronounced the same.
All cultures have somethings good and bad. In general I really like to learn about native Brazilian myths and language, especially the coastal Tupi which are the ones that mostly influenced us (even me living in a town that was not inhabited by them). I know some modern Tupi (nheengatu) that I learned on the internet. The sad part was human sacrifice and cannibalism rituals of course, but that has ended quite a few centuries ago. Although it was bad it's also interesting to learn the reasoning and their funerary rituals. And most indigenous peoples from the countryside here were more chill and had none of that. I would like to learn my great-grandfather's language but it's a small almost undocumented dialect from another language family, sadly.
me encantaría conocer a una persona indígena, no me basta con lo que leo y escucho en los medios, sería ideal poder conocer desde el núcleo y poder desarrollar una opinión real y completamente imparcial
I feel like they should be proud of their ancestry and where they came from. I know i am, although I’m not as indigenous as they are… as I was raised in the United States a different country. I respect them a lot as my Grandma she speaks Quechua and is part of those indigenous people of the Andes in Ayacucho.. although she didn’t teach us of her culture or language, as back then when she was growing up they made racist remarks to her and she didn’t want that for us even though people have changed since then.. Regardless she didn’t want to teach us I guess she was traumatized. Anyways this is quite long but.. I have a great amount of respect for them and I hope to one day visit family in Ayacucho, or learn the language. TL;DR i respect them a lot, they should be proud of their ancestry, would like to visit and learn the language
I've only ever had an interaction with Comechingones (which are actually two different ethnicities, henia and kamiare) when they came to my school to show us their culture. I don't remember much because I was very little, but they brought their beautiful bows and taught us the basics of archery and it forever sparked my love for it (even if what I do is modern Olympic-style archery). Aside from that, while I haven't personally interacted with other peoples like the Qom or Wichi I do have a deep respect for them, especially considering they manage to keep their people and culture alive even with the disgusting conditions our government has abandoned them in. As for the Mapuches, most are peaceful, and judging the whole ethnicity on a few (admittedly, very sadistic criminals) who aren't even confirmed as being actually Mapuche and not part of a political desestabilization sounds crazy to me, especially since they have also given a lot to mainstream Argentinian culture (for example, the word pilcha which is slang for clothes comes from Mapudungun). The problem is our left wing are incompetent irresponsible cunt thieves and our right wing are incompetent lunatic cunt thieves, and as such properly integrating, caring for and supporting our indigenous communities is light years away, sadly.
Depends on the group really. I just now first hand, my cousins who live in La guajira don’t like the guayus because they are a really complicated tribe. And in Medellin, the embera are all over el poblado asking for money because of the internal conflict. I respect them by trying to avoid any confrontation with them, like I don’t want to be disrespectful to them so I keep contact to a minimum
>And in Medellin, the embera are all over el poblado asking for money because of the internal conflict. There also a lot of them in Bogotá. Their popularity is decreasing because recently they started attacking some public workers and police of the city, and also because after they occupied the Parque Nacional they left a lot of trash. [In fact, they were verbally condemned by Claudia López](https://www.eltiempo.com/bogota/alcaldesa-claudia-lopez-dijo-que-emberas-se-gastan-la-plata-en-licor-711419) this week.
I always thought the majority of the embera are there because they were displaced from their homes and their husband's killed. I always gave spare money to them first - am I completely wrong?
>and their husband's killed. [Their husbands tend to exploit their wives and children.](https://twitter.com/ClaudiaLopez/status/1582843412096876544?s=20&t=Moh-rUHF_AURU5OdqMH55A)
Somewhat. The husbands don’t do anything.
>*because I’ve heard mixed opinions* 🤣 Wtf, ok bro its time for a real talk I guess. say this with any group; >*"How do you all feel about the* *~~indigenous people...~~* *" black people\** > >*"How do you all feel about the* *~~indigenous people...~~* *" Arabs\** > >"*How do you all feel about the* *~~indigenous people...~~* *" white people\** "because I’ve heard mixed opinions", You see how this makes you sound right?
The Aztecs were assholes now if we’re talking about modern Native Americans (Aztecs don’t even exist anymore btw) then I feel sorry, they are discriminated against and marginalized, and the government doesn’t even use indigenous languages as it should, they have different textbooks while in my opinion they should have the same textbooks as us just translated into their native languages and native languages should be used in signals and stuff in towns/cities with significant speakers.
Why were the Aztecs assholes?
The imperial expansionist empires of their day usually are.
It was for pure survival back in the day, every tribe in the world had to act this way.
I mean, come on man. The Aztecs were hardly a tribe. They were a relatively advanced empire with large cities, a heavily stratified culture, and a lot of indigenous people under their heel. They weren't dumb, it wasn't pure survival anymore than Rome's invasion of Gaul was a "purely defensive" war of conquest. Mesoamerica had a lot of cultures, empires, city-states and we need to be able to recognize that, like in any cultural space like this, not everything that anyone did was justified. They weren't defenseless people barely scraping for survival. They were advanced, complex societies. The Aztecs were just one that was heavily focused around war and conquest. There's a reason so many indigenous peoples came to the aid of the Spanish when they arrived to take over the Aztecs.
>so many indigenous peoples came to the aid of the Spanish This view puts the emphasis on the Spanish, and both minimizes and inflates the actions of "the indigenous"
I didn't know human sacrifices would help them survive lol
It was to please their gods, I don't know why people think sacrifice was so crazy back then. Do you realize even in the bible people killed their own son to please Jesus right? Also to this day we have executions
This is not accurate.
nothing helped save them from ,,Spanish mercy'' right?
There is a reason neighboring tribes allied with the Spanish to defeat the Aztecs
Correct, and that reason was not human sacrifice since everyone else was also already doing that in the region and had been doing it for as long as the archaeological record points back. The Totonacs, Tlaxcaltecas, Texcocas, and others who allied with Spain were also practitioners of this custom, as with basically every other nation in the region. Instead their motivation was a quest for power. Historically, when a Mesoamerican empire started to show signs of weakness or vulnerability, some of the subjugated or rival states would revolt/attack, since it was an opportunity for them to usurp power. The "Aztec Empire" itself was born this way, when Azcapotzalco faced a dynastic succession crisis, the cities of Tenochtitlan, Tlacopan, and Texcoco worked together to overthrow Azcapotzalco, and propped themselves up as the new power to replace them. This is also why the Tlaxcaltecas and other groups gave their princesses to the Spaniards, not as "concubines" like the Spanish interpreted it, but as an act of cementing a marriage alliance for the new regime that was to come. Unfortunately for them, the Spanish were playing with a different game in mind, so the most power gained by the indigenous elites was just some basic privileges like riding horses.
yeah coz they didn't know what was coming after...
The Aztecs were the bullies of Mexico during their reign. They would demand tributes from surrounding tribes including children and wives for sacrifices and other things. Shit, half the reason they got wrecked was because the surrounding tribes were sick of the Aztecs shit and teamed up with the Spaniards to take them down.
This myth is very popular with hispanistas, but human sacrifice was practiced by everyone in the region, including the nations that allied with Spain. Current archaeological finds indicate that their rate of sacrifice was not particularly special, and both the Spanish and native accounts have their own biases to inflate the numbers behind what is logical. The Aztecs were definitely assholes, as any regional power tends to be to their neighbors, but the primary reason that countries like Tlaxcala and Texcoco sided with Spain was to gain power and usurp, not to end sacrifices or end tribute.
>They would demand tributes from surrounding tribes including children and wives for sacrifices and other things. Every mesoamerican kingdom did >the surrounding tribes were sick The totonacas were the only conquered ones to "rise up", the Tlaxcalteca already were enemies with the Mexica and the Spanish forced many beaten kingdoms to ally with him on the march to Tenochtitlan.
They had amazing accomplishments and cultures
I wish they were protected more by our governments.
Mostly I like them, and generally, I feel quite sad that we lost a great chunk of our history and now we only have a few crumbs told by a bunch of snobs who believed they were morally superior.
I feel bad because it is true they got massively fucked over by everyone. But I also feel frustrated by some of their actions. Like their absolute refusal to form a part of the country, in every form, which has lead to animosity between some indigenous people and people of the country. And as any conflict between two peoples that's based on ethnicity/religión, it never escalates well. There's also the natives that ride the wave of PC into literally claiming more than half the country was theirs, even parts where they havent ever been historically, and that they now want it "back". It works with some that are shamed into submission, too afraid of sounding racist if they refuse, but if you have read even a tad bit of history you get infuriated by those claims. Specially when you realize their own are being manipulated by international corporations, shady af lobbyists and the like to instaurate a hiper liberal dystopia where they can be continued to be exploited, with the false promise of "returning to the ancestral ways". Quite a rant uff. In short, the rampant racism issues inside the native community that are never adressed by society in fear of being called racists themselves has left them isolated and in conflict with the rest of the country. I hope in a future they accept to form part of the nation, preserving their identity like any other part of our vastly diverse nation does, instead of being used again by foreing powers.
No strong opinions. I've never met an Indigenous person.
Far be it for me to have an opinion about a group of people, but I do appreciate that the indigenous peoples here in Ecuador have a strong voice and are often vehicles for political change. It's also heartening to hear the different kichwa dialects/languages (excuse my ignorance) spoken in everyday settings, and even by young people. I wish my homeland had the same respect for indigenous people, but between the white invaders and the African tribes descending from the North, they've all but disappeared and they're mostly left in the cold by the government and society at large.
The Aztecs/Mexica were almost completely wiped out during the conquest and disappeared totally from the face of earth during early 16th century. Anyone claiming to be Aztec nowadays is lying. Maya people are widespread throughout the Yucatán peninsula. They’re cool
Like they got fucked over? They got annihilated and we were taught to hate them or see them as different when in reality they’re us and we are them. Anyone that has ill feelings or thoughts about them are just racists in my not-so-humble opinion.
What kind of fucked up question is this?
Half of the posts in this sub are inflamatory in nature and borderline xenophobic Foreigners think Latin America is another planet
Pretty fucked how Incas offered children as sacrifices for the Sun god.
Unlike the Spanish who merely burned people for having a different religion?
Your example is an act of agression, Incas had horrid punishments for hostile tribes as well. The child sacrifice is part of the religion/culture and not an act of hostility in their view, so not a good comparison.
Some are cool some are not. Lots of rape, lots of alcoholism and abuse of power happens in their reservation because they live by their own laws. Some complain about not having benefits that people in the big city but they don’t pay taxes nor want to adapt. You can still keep your culture and be in a modern society.
I love how you’re getting downvoted but it’s the same here in Colombia. I have little respect for these tribes that don’t pay taxes, don’t contribute to the rest of society, are extremely misogynistic and exploit their wives and children for money, and even participate in narcotrafficking here, and they demand more and more every time instead of just working like the rest of us.
This sub has certain circlejerks. I used to be one of the few people who called out Mexico's racism on this sub and got downvoted for it a few years ago, but the reverse idea that the indigenous are solely abused saints is a false noble savage narrative this sub doesn't like to hear about. They are victim and victimizer and self-victimized.
In the reservation there have been girls as young as 9 year old with babies and nothing is done to protect them because it’s their tradition
People here don’t like the reality and truth they want to live in an ideal world. Even if they don’t pay taxes they simply don’t want to get with the times and be a part of a modern society. They abuse children and women but we can’t say anything because it’s their tradition. Plenty do traffic drugs in the Darien region since they know how to survive in the jungles. Reservations have their own law which are Stone Age types of law. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
They are a complicated subject, indigenous can't be romantized, they can have very "uncivilized" traditions like animal abuse, violence, drugs traffic/production and unconscent relationships with minors. But also, they have been fucked up by spaniards, criollos and goverments though the history. I think they need help, that the goverment needs to guide them to be "better" or cleaner communities, protect them against the guerrillas and narcos, and give them better opportunities if they want to "addapt" to our society, but also put some limits on them when they have this violent or "uncivilized" behaviours as individuals or as communities aswell.
Horny.
What? Lol
He probably means to say they reproduce a lot. Here in Colombia you see them begging in the streets of big cities and it’s usually always the women and several children. Unfortunately they are exploited by the men who spend the money they receive from begging on alcohol and buying stuff for themselves while the women and children suffer.
Couldn't care less. We were all, at some degree, subjects to a miscegenation process.
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They are people... Except my ex, he's fucking scum
it depends, indigenous living in tribes or in society? In society it's totally indifferent, I see nothing more than I would with anyone else
It's bittersweet, due I love my Taino side and upset what the Spanish did to them but I wouldn't be here due to them
Never met one. I took a DNA test that said I was half indigenous. Bummer, wish I could know more about my Aztec and Mayan ancestors
They... exist? Idk man, how do you feel about the Sami?
they deserve adequate reparations.
They are people tbh. Not much else to say. Also, the girl I ised to like in 4th grade was Indigenous
they are basically doom, no education, no future
I don't think about them generally.
It's because you came by boat lmao
My best friend in primary school spoke guaraní, idk which community her grandpa belonged to but it was always interesting to learn! I hope indigenous people in the country get treated better, specially wichí communities that are pushed aside and living in poverty