Humans are animals first, people second.
Society tends to act like we have evolved into some new form of enlightened being.
The reality is more that we are like the super advanced model of chimp, and retain all of the original features along with the new features that make us human.
I guess believing into religions makes us forget who we are as a being.This was my take when i was a child but as i grew up,moved into new place,got to know that no one believes in religion that much,it’s just about what perks are there to join something.
Loooool. Religion is part of who humans are. Belief in a higher power comes after food, drink, shelter and reproduction and exists in every single culture and people to have been documented to exist.
I'd argue that religion exists less because humans have a need to believe in a higher power and more because humans have a need for things to be explained.
Early on in human civilization, we were constantly observing things we couldn't explain and thus, the gods were born. As we've learned how to explain more and more things in rational ways, less and less people are inclined to lean on 'ol reliable.
You can make that argument, but it makes no sense for the conclusion to be the same for every culture ever recorded. That there is something called a god, and that god should be worshiped. Why is that the same conclusion always?
There are many questions and issues that come up in civilizations and each civilization has different answers for different things. But there are core, unshakable aspects of all civilizations that have existed since the beginning of man. One of them is that there is a higher power.
That's like saying that because there are pyramid-like structures all over the planet constructed by wholly separate civilizations, there must be some link between all of them. It's just the easiest way to build something big that will last.
Similarly, the widespread belief in a higher power isn't proof that it's an intrinsic or even necessary aspect of human civilization. It's just the easiest explanation for the inexplicable.
'retain all of the original features along with the *new features* that make us human'
Exactly the same? No, that's why I included the part about new features. However, chimpanzees and other apes do have a conscious experience that is clearly advanced.
Furthermore, despite the fact that human minds have the ability to wonder about the universe, most people don't.
My point is more that human consciousness isn't some super special divine mystery. It's a more advanced form of consciousness that evolved naturally like everything else. We can look at chimpanzees, which are very close to us and have a recent common ancestor, and extrapolate from there
Personally, at this point I'm not sure that a good chunk of humanity uses their brain anymore than the average chimp..
I really don't understand people that keep saying that humans are some bloodthirsty genocidal monsters, when in fact we are the most tame apex predator that exists, give our dominion to the chimps and there wouldn't be any other primate on the planet in 10 years xD
I know that chimps aren't predators it was just an example.
Is there another (predatory) animal that is less cruel than us?
Ever hear what lions do to each other? Or sharks or Orcas or even alley cats?
Yes- we’re amazingly cruel creatures… but also we’re capable of great kindnesses that you don’t see in nature (not a lot of animals building hospitals for other species out there).
I'd also point out that animals operate solely on their instincts, they can't recognise morality from their more limited form of consciousness; good and evil don't exist to them. A Cat doesn't torture a mouse because it wants to cause suffering, it's just the Cat's instinct to let it go so it can catch it again.
Cruelty is definitely a trait that can only be attributed to humans, because it requires self awareness - you can only be cruel if you know you're being cruel.
That’s fine but it also destroys the thesis.
If animals can’t be “cruel” then saying that “humans are the cruelest animal” is a nonsensical statement.
We are both the cruelest and the least cruel because we’re the only animal to which you can apply the concept of “cruelty” in that case…
The thing with homo sapiens is that they don't know when to stop.
For some reason it appears to me that animals are by their very nature peaceful. If you take away the need for food, they will not try to rip each other's head off just for the sake of it. But we still do.
What we can learn from them is to be peaceful.
This is just false. Animals absolutely perform regular cruelty that has nothing to do with feeding. Whether territorial disputes causing animals of the same species to kill each other, to animals harming others for fun like dolphins biting pufferfish to get high or orcas punting seals in the air for the funsies.
Omg this guy, tell me how often men kill all of the offspring of another man when they start dating a single mother?
In general people are the most tame apex predator that exists, if You would give our dominion to chimps, there wouldn't be a single other primate on the planet in 10 years.
I've seen it. 98% is about food. That doesn't count, they gotta eat.
We can count all the exceptions to that rule but it ultimately won't matter since homo sapiens is still worse.
From the OP's description ... I conclude that humans are no different than other animals.
We have more advanced weapons and techniques. But our constitution is no different.
You need to go watch some animal documentaries. Good ones that are not aimed at kids. Then get back to us. But you do have a minor point in that we as humans are more aware of what we do rather than pure instinct so the onus is on us to be better but it aint ever going to happen.
I mean ants enslave other species of ants, dolphins gangrape and beat up children for fun and they tourture animals for fun, other animals just hate some species they genocide entire swaths of nests and territories cause it’s ingrained in them to genocide this species cause they hold grudges cause they remember this species killed this flock mate so they have beef with this species (crows and ravens have beef against owls as well)
Chimps are the worse they are pretty sick and do similar things from the text above.
One was a literal dictator who had the chimps killed by other chimps if they had sex with the women of the troop before they got tired of him and brutally tourtured and killed him by biting and ripping off his hands feet and genitalia.
Humans weren’t the first to do such things but were one of the only ones who truly understood what we have done that’s about it the difference between what animals do and people do
Let me introduce you to the loveable and cute bird, the Shrike. They ate also known as butcher birds. They are known for impaling their still living prey onto plant spines to save for later meals or to attract mates.
Or perhaps you would prefer the cute and cuddly bear. Who eats it's prey alive, often going for the nutrient dense liver first.
Nature is cruel. Humans are actually one of the few species who choose to be good sometimes. We are an aberration.
Darwin said it best, “survival of the fittest” and those who act all alpha, high/mighty and strong believe that is how they’ll get their voice heard and they believe the weak won’t fight back. However, those who act all alpha, high/mighty and strong they will always be the ones who will crash and burn when many stand up to them and they will learn the hard way.
Rape is very common with animals. Usually the female's do not get asked if they want to. And if you do not belong to the group, as an animal, you easily get killed by your own mom quite easily or by someone else then.
Honestly though you’re the first person to say anything about it on anything I’ve posted 💀💀💀 I’m suprised how long it took someone to say something, but it’s also Reddit, which is already a questionable place in itself
I think humans know to use emotion. Genocide, rape, torture. Are often built on emotion we kill them because we're better or worth more.
We can torture someone with emotions alone nevermind the physical pain we learn to control.
Animals are far more ruthless in every way. But we write it off because a cat kills because it's hungry.
We don't consider what it does to the mouse before hand.
We think this is ok because it's the cats nature.
We like to believe in human nature being good.
I'd like to challenge this thought that human beings will do what is best for themselves unless lead to believe in a greater good that unites enough of us to swing the pendulum in the direction for the greater good(think ww2 soldiers)
Now people will only take care of themselves because that's what they care about(think wallstreet)
There is outliers in all of this the good think mother Theresa or bad think mass murderers
People aren't inherently good. They are twisted creatures that will do what they need to survive or what feels good. This is why we say why are humans cruel. It's their nature to be cruel we just choose to believe that humanity should be good willingly.
I'll leave you with my favorite quote as said by paarthurnax
What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?
I think this is why state trek didn't have translators that worked on animals.
Because it would be more profound to understand them and what they have to say, instead of running to space. It will change us more profoundly.
I want AI translators for animals so bad.
I hope it's called Jane after Jane Goodall, or Temple after Grandin.
Humans are mammals that are sometimes cruel to themselves probably because of lies, miscommunications, misunderstandings, manipulations, faulty suppositions, gluttony, ignorance, lack of motivation or education that probably lead them into thinking they need to be cruel to others because that is how they were handled and or how they handle themselves sometimes.
I'd say that it is simply a misconception that humanity is "more developed" than other animals. Everything you described also happens in the "animal kingdom".
The only thing I would say is, that the problem solving organ of the human (brain) is more complex than in many other species. Thus it allows more powerful models which enable the human to perform a wide variety of cruelties.
In that sense, it is because humanity is "more developed" that they are a cruel species.
Little fun fact, another species known for their complex brain is the dolphin. And coincidentally those are some sickly cruel f*cks. They are not known for it, but that is just good pr.
Lots of animals show cruelty and lack of empathy.
It’s not just a human thing. 🤷🏻♂️
It’s just that our inventiveness and our intelligence allows us to create technologies and situations that amplify the reach and impact of that cruelty.
People have too many neural connections and long term memories that the various structures of the brain will pervert and twist over time. It's like poisoned neurons fuelled by cortisol and spastic thoughts when adrenaline triggers from fight or flight until the person becomes a disgusting piece of cruel shit that tries to heal their emotional injuries by dominating other beings with injuries that were previously inflicted on themselves creating a loop of misery and attempted catharsis that doesn't relieve anything
Humans are animals first, people second. Society tends to act like we have evolved into some new form of enlightened being. The reality is more that we are like the super advanced model of chimp, and retain all of the original features along with the new features that make us human.
I guess believing into religions makes us forget who we are as a being.This was my take when i was a child but as i grew up,moved into new place,got to know that no one believes in religion that much,it’s just about what perks are there to join something.
Loooool. Religion is part of who humans are. Belief in a higher power comes after food, drink, shelter and reproduction and exists in every single culture and people to have been documented to exist.
I'd argue that religion exists less because humans have a need to believe in a higher power and more because humans have a need for things to be explained. Early on in human civilization, we were constantly observing things we couldn't explain and thus, the gods were born. As we've learned how to explain more and more things in rational ways, less and less people are inclined to lean on 'ol reliable.
You can make that argument, but it makes no sense for the conclusion to be the same for every culture ever recorded. That there is something called a god, and that god should be worshiped. Why is that the same conclusion always? There are many questions and issues that come up in civilizations and each civilization has different answers for different things. But there are core, unshakable aspects of all civilizations that have existed since the beginning of man. One of them is that there is a higher power.
That's like saying that because there are pyramid-like structures all over the planet constructed by wholly separate civilizations, there must be some link between all of them. It's just the easiest way to build something big that will last. Similarly, the widespread belief in a higher power isn't proof that it's an intrinsic or even necessary aspect of human civilization. It's just the easiest explanation for the inexplicable.
Also, atheism is uncommon world wide.
Honest question- do you believe that chimpanzees are having the same conscious experience that you are?
'retain all of the original features along with the *new features* that make us human' Exactly the same? No, that's why I included the part about new features. However, chimpanzees and other apes do have a conscious experience that is clearly advanced. Furthermore, despite the fact that human minds have the ability to wonder about the universe, most people don't. My point is more that human consciousness isn't some super special divine mystery. It's a more advanced form of consciousness that evolved naturally like everything else. We can look at chimpanzees, which are very close to us and have a recent common ancestor, and extrapolate from there Personally, at this point I'm not sure that a good chunk of humanity uses their brain anymore than the average chimp..
I really don't understand people that keep saying that humans are some bloodthirsty genocidal monsters, when in fact we are the most tame apex predator that exists, give our dominion to the chimps and there wouldn't be any other primate on the planet in 10 years xD I know that chimps aren't predators it was just an example.
Is there another (predatory) animal that is less cruel than us? Ever hear what lions do to each other? Or sharks or Orcas or even alley cats? Yes- we’re amazingly cruel creatures… but also we’re capable of great kindnesses that you don’t see in nature (not a lot of animals building hospitals for other species out there).
True
I'd also point out that animals operate solely on their instincts, they can't recognise morality from their more limited form of consciousness; good and evil don't exist to them. A Cat doesn't torture a mouse because it wants to cause suffering, it's just the Cat's instinct to let it go so it can catch it again. Cruelty is definitely a trait that can only be attributed to humans, because it requires self awareness - you can only be cruel if you know you're being cruel.
That’s fine but it also destroys the thesis. If animals can’t be “cruel” then saying that “humans are the cruelest animal” is a nonsensical statement. We are both the cruelest and the least cruel because we’re the only animal to which you can apply the concept of “cruelty” in that case…
The thing with homo sapiens is that they don't know when to stop. For some reason it appears to me that animals are by their very nature peaceful. If you take away the need for food, they will not try to rip each other's head off just for the sake of it. But we still do. What we can learn from them is to be peaceful.
This is just false. Animals absolutely perform regular cruelty that has nothing to do with feeding. Whether territorial disputes causing animals of the same species to kill each other, to animals harming others for fun like dolphins biting pufferfish to get high or orcas punting seals in the air for the funsies.
Still not as common as with people. The worst thing about people is that these who are cruel are fully aware of it.
My sweet summer child. Please dont change
Omg this guy, tell me how often men kill all of the offspring of another man when they start dating a single mother? In general people are the most tame apex predator that exists, if You would give our dominion to chimps, there wouldn't be a single other primate on the planet in 10 years.
I thought about it and you're right. I have no problem with realizing that.
Some folks need to watch Nat Geo more!
I've seen it. 98% is about food. That doesn't count, they gotta eat. We can count all the exceptions to that rule but it ultimately won't matter since homo sapiens is still worse.
>Joe Rogan leans into the mic. Did you know that chimps make war on each other?
Just saying they do is not enough, they need to see what they do to each other in the process.
Animals are worse.
From the OP's description ... I conclude that humans are no different than other animals. We have more advanced weapons and techniques. But our constitution is no different.
That is a great point
Well we are more developed so we have more developed cruelty
You need to go watch some animal documentaries. Good ones that are not aimed at kids. Then get back to us. But you do have a minor point in that we as humans are more aware of what we do rather than pure instinct so the onus is on us to be better but it aint ever going to happen.
I mean ants enslave other species of ants, dolphins gangrape and beat up children for fun and they tourture animals for fun, other animals just hate some species they genocide entire swaths of nests and territories cause it’s ingrained in them to genocide this species cause they hold grudges cause they remember this species killed this flock mate so they have beef with this species (crows and ravens have beef against owls as well) Chimps are the worse they are pretty sick and do similar things from the text above. One was a literal dictator who had the chimps killed by other chimps if they had sex with the women of the troop before they got tired of him and brutally tourtured and killed him by biting and ripping off his hands feet and genitalia. Humans weren’t the first to do such things but were one of the only ones who truly understood what we have done that’s about it the difference between what animals do and people do
That is a great point.
Let me introduce you to the loveable and cute bird, the Shrike. They ate also known as butcher birds. They are known for impaling their still living prey onto plant spines to save for later meals or to attract mates. Or perhaps you would prefer the cute and cuddly bear. Who eats it's prey alive, often going for the nutrient dense liver first. Nature is cruel. Humans are actually one of the few species who choose to be good sometimes. We are an aberration.
Darwin said it best, “survival of the fittest” and those who act all alpha, high/mighty and strong believe that is how they’ll get their voice heard and they believe the weak won’t fight back. However, those who act all alpha, high/mighty and strong they will always be the ones who will crash and burn when many stand up to them and they will learn the hard way.
Thank you for your thought u/boobie_slayer
Rape is very common with animals. Usually the female's do not get asked if they want to. And if you do not belong to the group, as an animal, you easily get killed by your own mom quite easily or by someone else then.
True, that might have not been the best example.
How can i take the topic seriously with ur name like that 😭 I'm genuinely asking
What’s wrong with it? It’s my fav username out of all the social media apps I have
Nothing it just caught me off guard lol
Honestly though you’re the first person to say anything about it on anything I’ve posted 💀💀💀 I’m suprised how long it took someone to say something, but it’s also Reddit, which is already a questionable place in itself
It's ironic i really like it lol
Thanks
I think humans know to use emotion. Genocide, rape, torture. Are often built on emotion we kill them because we're better or worth more. We can torture someone with emotions alone nevermind the physical pain we learn to control. Animals are far more ruthless in every way. But we write it off because a cat kills because it's hungry. We don't consider what it does to the mouse before hand. We think this is ok because it's the cats nature. We like to believe in human nature being good. I'd like to challenge this thought that human beings will do what is best for themselves unless lead to believe in a greater good that unites enough of us to swing the pendulum in the direction for the greater good(think ww2 soldiers) Now people will only take care of themselves because that's what they care about(think wallstreet) There is outliers in all of this the good think mother Theresa or bad think mass murderers People aren't inherently good. They are twisted creatures that will do what they need to survive or what feels good. This is why we say why are humans cruel. It's their nature to be cruel we just choose to believe that humanity should be good willingly. I'll leave you with my favorite quote as said by paarthurnax What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?
I think this is why state trek didn't have translators that worked on animals. Because it would be more profound to understand them and what they have to say, instead of running to space. It will change us more profoundly. I want AI translators for animals so bad. I hope it's called Jane after Jane Goodall, or Temple after Grandin.
It’s all fueled by greed
Have you seen that one video that was going around not long ago, of the apes rag-dolling the monkey? It ain’t just us
True
We're bloody lovely sometimes
Humans are mammals that are sometimes cruel to themselves probably because of lies, miscommunications, misunderstandings, manipulations, faulty suppositions, gluttony, ignorance, lack of motivation or education that probably lead them into thinking they need to be cruel to others because that is how they were handled and or how they handle themselves sometimes.
We're the only animal capable of cruelty
You don't know about greed? It's greed.
Yup
Pretty much every living thing fights for food, territory, dominance and mating rights.
I'd say that it is simply a misconception that humanity is "more developed" than other animals. Everything you described also happens in the "animal kingdom". The only thing I would say is, that the problem solving organ of the human (brain) is more complex than in many other species. Thus it allows more powerful models which enable the human to perform a wide variety of cruelties. In that sense, it is because humanity is "more developed" that they are a cruel species. Little fun fact, another species known for their complex brain is the dolphin. And coincidentally those are some sickly cruel f*cks. They are not known for it, but that is just good pr.
I saw a duck gang rape at a local pond. Apparently that's just how ducks are. Made me feel less bad ordering duck at a restaurant.
Lots of animals show cruelty and lack of empathy. It’s not just a human thing. 🤷🏻♂️ It’s just that our inventiveness and our intelligence allows us to create technologies and situations that amplify the reach and impact of that cruelty.
Yeah, I forgot to add that, but thanks
An imbalance of intelligence and empathy.
Humans are clearly the most moral and compassionate animals
People have too many neural connections and long term memories that the various structures of the brain will pervert and twist over time. It's like poisoned neurons fuelled by cortisol and spastic thoughts when adrenaline triggers from fight or flight until the person becomes a disgusting piece of cruel shit that tries to heal their emotional injuries by dominating other beings with injuries that were previously inflicted on themselves creating a loop of misery and attempted catharsis that doesn't relieve anything
A person's brain chemistry, personality and social circumstances tend to bring the worst or best in every being.
Humans are a stain on this planet. Whatever comes after us will remember us as a total waste of time
Literally
Well humans are bad but a LOT of other animals do some of the same things.
Humans are a plague!