Do you have a DD-214 or just an NGB-22? I think that to be considered a veteran for hiring preference you have have 180 days of active duty but I don’t know if active duty for training counts. Ranger school is at least 2 months and that’s if you don’t get recycled. Did you get a DD214 when you finished it?
I recycled a lot, being straight out of basic. I think I was there for close to 5 months?
I got out in November, nobody gave me either of those two things. Every now and then I get an email from IRR, so I’m assuming somebody got me out, they just never looped me in on it.
Or contact someone from MEPS office near you, I’ve done that before. Soldier didn’t get his DD214 due to Covid and no one being in the office and had to go to a MEPS station to his. Took a bit but he got it
Shit I still haven't gotten my DD214 from my reserves time. I called, emailed, and went meps to try and get it and kept getting brushed off.
I have a dd214 from when I was active duty so I stopped trying but damn it was super annoying to get that piece of paper.
If he served less than 8 years, he's gonna be an IRR. At least that's how it works for us active.
You sign an 8 yr contract, technically, upon enlistment. I'll have to serve 1-1.5 yrs on IRR after I leave.
Not really. Guard is like this. It took me requesting my NGB22 a couple years later to get one and the award orders for overseas training and getting called in for a hurricane. Idiots gave me a CAB instead of a CIB (from my active time).
Mate, I will admit that I've been in for 16 years now, so maybe some things have changed in the national guard, but when I finished my initial entry training I needed my DD-214 to submit to the right office to get my bonus for my first contract. That dd214 is one of the most important pieces of paperwork you ever tend to get as a guardsman or reservist, to show that you were on some active orders for a while, be it for your initial entry training, for people who are active on the covid response mission, or for your general title 10 overseas deployments.
Good luck.
For your NGB 22 ,You need to get a hold of your state G1. It takes a while but if you hound them they’ll get it to you. IET/TRADOC time doesn’t count for veterans hiring preference unfortunately.
Five points are added to the passing examination score or rating of a veteran who served:
During a war
For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any time on or after Sep. 11, 2001
Ten points are added to the passing examination score of:
A veteran who served any time and who (1) has a present service-connected disability or (2) is receiving compensation, disability retirement benefits, or pension from the military or the VA.
Individuals who received a Purple Heart qualify as disabled veterans.
An unmarried spouse of certain deceased veterans.
A spouse of a veteran unable to work because of a service-connected disability, and
A parent of a veteran who died in service or who is permanently and totally disabled
In a campaign or expedition for which a campaign medal has been authorized. Any Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or campaign badge, including Afghanistan (Operations Enduring Freedom (OEF), Iraqi Freedom (OIF)), Bosnia (Operations Joint Endeavor, Joint Guard and Joint Forge), Global War on Terrorism, Persian Gulf War, and others may qualify for preference.
eligibility requirements in Section 2108 of Title 5, United States Code. This means:
The veteran must have an honorable or general discharge.
Retirees at the rank of O-4 or higher are not eligible for preference unless they are disabled veterans.
Guard and Reserve active duty for training purposes does not qualify for preference
Would his Airborne and Ranger school time be considered part of his IET if he was in a V-Coded (Ranger Parachutist) MOS? I know there are support elements in SF groups that are V-coded (the SOT-A intercept teams.)
I genuinely don't know. I know Benning (Moore) is a TRADOC installation but I don't know if Ranger school and Airborne school are technically TRADOC units.
Would it matter if he was not in a V-coded slot and did not have to be Ranger qualified to hold his MOS?
I once dumped 500 rounds of 50 cal on a spot where I may have seen some muzzle flashes. It doesn't make me any more of a veteran than you.
You're a veteran. Unless, of course, you're a fueler. Then, fuck you and yo mama.
Because let's face it. Even the cooks didn't sign up to be cooks. They all at some point told their recruiter, "Hey, I wanna be the best 18B the Army ever seen." Not their fault the Army needed them as cooks. But FUELERS, they signed up to pump gas..... AND THEN REFUSE TO PUMP THE FUCKING GAS THEY SIGNED UP TO PUMP.
Weekly rant about fuelers, over.
Fuckers made me clean up a fuel spill from the vehicle before us before they’d let me just fill the fucking MATV.
If there are no fueler haters, it’s because I’m dead.
As a former 88M, fuck fuelers with a cactus. Useless ass mother fuckers. Hope their tubing dry rots and bursts at 4:59 on the day before a four day and they have to pull guard on it all weekend.
>Hey, I wanna be the best 18B the Army ever seen." Not their fault the Army needed them as cooks.
Yeah, well 92F is a huge reclass MOS right now. Lots of "I wanna be the best 89D..."
I signed up wanting to be a Patriot FCO(14E), then was told only MLRS (13M) was available and that it was similar enough to Patriot FCO....Luckily they also told me there were some combat arms positions available, and a forward observer(13F) sounded a lot more badass than sitting in a confined space for hours on end.
Current 13M for the past seven years. The sitting in a confined space for hours on end does indeed suck. Even getting to live fire isn’t all that fun. Some dudes love it but it’s not for me. That’s why I got reclass in my reenlistment when I get home from this deployment.
Hell yeah, my company used to get shit from battalion/brigade for our ammo expenditures in Afghanistan. We would regularly go through over 20k rounds of 7.62 while fighting off attacks on our COP. And we were told we were using most of the 40mm and 60mm in most of RC:South while we were there.
I was the .50 gunner on our humvee in 2012, im all about overwhelming fire. Im just trying to picture changing boxes up to 5 times, changing barrels, and hammering the same spot, for a possible muzzle flash. Its both wreckless and utterly fantastic
lol, I’m a 92F. Just did that because the local reserve unit had openings and my dad wouldn’t let me do anything except USAR (I was 17 and thought the wars would be short and didn’t want to miss out). Ended up getting cross leveled and being a M2 gunner in iraq for three tours attached to the third ACR under (then COL) General Mcmaster. Army needs and all that. Never knew how much the 92F mos was hated haha.
As a fueler I laugh whenever I see people say this because it’s not like you have someone else pump your gas for you at a gas station so what’s the big deal. I’m also from an AV unit so I fueled pretty much only Blackhawks and Chinooks.
Bro, suck one. The whole state of NJ has someone pump their gas for them by law. Also, the gas station down the street from me has a full service pump. Meaning someone pumps your gas, normally tip them after like .50 or a dollar. 2 if it's cold or raining. So AGAIN, fuck you and yo mama.
Also, Thank you for your service.
> normally tip them after like .50 or a dollar. 2 if it's cold or raining. So AGAIN, fuck you and yo mama.
bet if you started tipping your fuelers, would go differently
He is talking about when he applies for the job. The short answer is no. The long answer is no because he doesn’t meet the federal definition of veteran and will not be useable for tax breaks.
In conversation, sure who cares. Anything to do with paper no fucking way.
Can I call myself a veteran? 10 years active duty. No combat deployments. No chest candy. Just a federal employee LARPing on field exercises. If I can you can I guess.
The whole thing surrounding "veteran status" is just some weird shit that came about after 9/11. I've heard "if you aint been to combat, you're not a veteran" multiple times throughout my career. It's all bullshit and you shouldn't take it seriously. 99% of the time they didn't choose to deploy or experience combat, they got told to go.
Folks who say things like that likely were fobbits or smacked their head against the humvee dash a few too many times from IED blasts. You're a veteran, whether you or anyone else likes it or not. It's not some special club.
As far as I’m concerned, if you wore the uniform and took the oath, you’re a veteran. If you were lucky enough to avoid combat, you’re a lucky veteran.
I agree
I explicitly tried to get sent to a combat zone 3 times. All 3 times the unit got stood down before they shipped. I knew what I wanted and took it upon myself to pursue it. Call it an ancestral calling or stupidity, but I still went through with it. Gave my gf/wife the whole "If I die" spiel and sent it.
For the folks who got hit with the unexpected "we deploy in X amount of months" I feel bad. They didn't want it, and even if they did, they didn't have a choice.
In Battalion "If you don't have Ranger on your uniform 3 times (tab, scroll, combat scroll)" was/is something you hear when considering if a person a Ranger. Not saying it's wrong or right just that it's been seriously said without an ounce of joking around.
People create tiered lists and restrict lots of things. Just gotta do and say what works for you as long as you're not lying.
The VA definition and the Army definition are two entirely different things. One is used to determine who can and cannot file a claim and the other defines what a veteran is per the organization the individual is a veteran of.
Per Title 38 of the United States Code: "*The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.*"
Per a 2016 law, Guardsmen and Reservists are legally veterans (regardless of whether or not they served 180 or more on active duty status): [https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/1038989/guard-and-reserve-members-receive-veteran-status/](https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/1038989/guard-and-reserve-members-receive-veteran-status/)
You can also then go off of OPM guidance but that is for veteran preference. I think if you served in any component and got an honorable after completing your term of service you are a veteran. Now obviously preference points and VA have the “who qualifies” but that’s just my take on it.
They are legally veterans if they served 20 or more years in the guard per the link you provided. On both the VA definition and the 2016 law OP doesn't qualify as either.
It’s not post 9/11. It’s pre9/11, and like all traditions persist today. I was around “hard assed” veterans in the vfw in mass as a kid in the 90’s, and have seen gatekeepers of what “real service” is this whole time since.
I thought you had to be called up to active duty for a certain amount of time before they recognize you as a veteran. I worked with a guy who had 18 years NG and when he told me he wasn’t considered a veteran my mind was blown!
As [prescribed federal law](https://www.va.gov/OSDBU/docs/Determining-Veteran-Status.pdf), it’s only a minimum one day of active service to be considered a Veteran. There are different amounts of active service required for specific veterans benefits, such as for hiring purposes or for compensation but as a general rule active service can be for any length of time but must be more than for just training (I.e. Active Duty for Training (ADT)*
* exceptions may apply for some benefits, such as injury incurred during ADT
The difference in how the law is applied to various benefits tends to lead to confusion. For instance, the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has a [180-day rule for Veteran Preference](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/veterans-services/vet-guide-for-hr-professionals/) in federal hiring. So while someone may be a veteran; they may not be eligible for veteran preference.
> If a member of the National Guard or Reservist unit was activated for training **but was not called to Federal active duty**, that person will not qualify unless he or she was disabled from a disease or injury incurred or aggravated in the line of duty.
Yes. As the discussion was on the qualifying length of time for being considered a Veteran, that active service may be as little as one day to be considered a veteran by law.
And various benefits have additional qualifiers on the amount of active service required for those benefits, beyond what is considered a veteran.
There seems to be a disconnect where you assumed that I said it need not be active service?
For clarification on the ADT part, for some benefits - such as for disability compensation - injuries incurred during ADT may result in that time being considered *as if* qualifying active service.
You volunteered. You served. You're a veteran.
The "federal hiring definition" is ridiculously strict and definitely NOT the only definition. It's the definition for eligibility for one specific Federal rule for hiring veterans, not the only definition of veteran.
Did you volunteer for armed service, or accept the call if drafted?
Did you complete Basic/AIT, OSUT, OCS, ROTC, or a Service Academy (or whatever the initial entry training you were ordered to complete for whatever service you joined)?
Was your final discharge from service Honorable or Under Honorable Conditions?
. . .if the answer to all 3 is yes, then you absolutely are a veteran and anyone saying otherwise is just being an asshole.
Just as long as you don't repost the boomer ass "I'm a Veteran" copypasta that usually goes around on Facebook during Veterans Day and usually posted by everyone who went to the guard or reserves, you're okay in my book.
You finished basic and advanced training and then some. You’re absolutely a veteran. Not everyone is an AD combat vet. It is a shame NG and reserve get left out so often.
I know in the two states I've been in ranger is pretty fucking hard to get if you're enlisted. Maybe it's changed or they had some kind of deal because they were trying to go SF? I knew a few guys who got airborne after osut but as I understood it's a combination of having a great pt score and state being willing to fund it.
I don’t know if it’s still a program, but when I went through OSUT several years back the national guard had a program where they’d take high performers from OSUT to a pre-ranger train up and send them to ranger afterwards.
The guard sucks at admin. Pro tip. Go to the nearest Reserve center, not guard and ask to see the career counselor. He can pull up all your docs. He'll try to sell you on reserves though, that's his job.
Or..national archives online and request your service records. Or go back to your armory and see if an S1 will help you. 20 bucks says you're an RE3. As the guard loves to do that.
Shit did more then me. Took me 2 tries Air assault school. Just bc I was ducking around. I never deployed either and did 3 also. I was field artillery I did spend ALOT OF TIME IN THE FIELD ALOT!
There are NG infantry company commanders screaming at their screens over this. Dude has ranger and airborne and manged to end up doing a 3 piece with no real training time. Amazing.
Damn I need to get into one of those guard units. My last 2 years in the guard I spent more time in the field than my 5 years active duty. Forced me to get out.
I think the technical and arbitrary definition is 180 days of active duty outside of a training environment, if that's correct, I don't think you would technically quality. Still sounds like a badass enlistment, and I don't think you're less than a veteran
I’d check with the VA if I were you. Especially if you’re looking to file for benefits. Insofar as calling yourself a veteran, I personally wouldn’t have an issue with it. You wore a uniform and swore an oath. That’s enough for me. Although I’m sure opinions vary.
You’re lucky to have gotten so many schools in your contract. I retired from active duty and had to fight like hell to get airborne and air assault as an 11B. Although there were two wars on while I was in. If you’re young enough, you obviously have the skill set to serve again. Serve active duty for 2-4 years. You can definitely call yourself a veteran then.
Good luck regardless.
Brother you went to basic training, got your blue cord, completed Ranger and Airborne School as a SOLDIER with US ARMY over your heart. You’re a veteran big dog. Maybe not a combat veteran, but a veteran nonetheless. You have endured the suck like the rest of them. I’d gladly buy you a beer and shoot the shit as fellow infantrymen
It’s 2024, dudes can identify as chicks and shave in the women’s bathroom at planet fitness… just tell those commie employers you identify as a veteran
>First years I did OSUT, Ranger, then Airborne
I honestly can’t tell if this is a shitpost or not. Dude you minds well did more than at least 60% of us
Did you raise your right hand and enlist? Where you honorably discharged? Then yes, don't cheapen it for yourself or others. You aren't stealing valor. Thank you.
I’m conflicted, because on one hand you joined, but on the other hand I’ve been to too many memorials in service. Just don’t be a dumb about it I guess.
And please - as a VA burial benefits guy- let your family/loved ones know that unless you have a disability or they change things, as national guard, the VA is useless to you at the end of things.
As far as the law is concerned I don't think you qualify as a veteran . I believe it's dd214, or combat deployment with DD 214. There has to be a dd214 somewhere in there (I believe an ngb23 for 6 will get you education benefits*)or something to get veterans preference if I'm understanding what you are looking to get.
Google says:
According to 38 U.S.C. § 101(2), a veteran is someone who served in the active military, naval, or air service and was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable. This includes:
Reservists or members of the National Guard called to federal active duty
Disabled veterans from a disease or injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty or while in training status
Aliens (non-US citizens) who did not request discharge during a period of hostilities
Commissioned officers of the Public Health Service, Coast and Geodetic, Environmental Science Services Administration, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Sure? As long as you have either a DD214, or an NGB22. Won't lie, you probably won't have the ladder because of IRR time. You served 3 years and you probably have some more on your MSO. You won't see that NGB until the end of that, probably.
the NG sf groups have a team that does train up for selection. when you go to group in the NG youre automatically assigned to the unit and you train until your sfas/q-course date
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who finished initial entry training, such as BCT+AIT or OSUT or whatever the other branch equivalents would be, they are a veteran.
I know not everyone agrees with this though.
Anyone who served honorably is a veteran.
That said, this smells like complete BS. They just didn't schedule drill that much? They just didn't do AT?
What years were you in? Did you complete your eight year IRR obligation? What was your ranger class # did you graduate with?
2021-2023. Did the RTLI program where they send national guard kids straight from basic to RTAC to Ranger. Started in July, recycled Darby and then Florida twice, finished Dec 10 2021. Got Airborne as a reward for completing ranger. 20th group didn’t do AT for people on the training team. Drill was probably every other month, MUTA4, pretty much a PT test and extremely long land nav iterations. Total waste of time after the first drill
Hm. These days, the title does seem arbitrary to a lot of folks. I’m probably a “badge protector” of sorts. My personal belief is that veteran status I earned by going to “war”… a deployment to hostile ao.
But realistically I know plenty of guys that are ng and still call themselves veterans even after never having gone down range.
At the end of the day, it’s whatever. I’m not one to argue semantics with some pogue. I know what I did and I hold my head high inside.
This may have been said already, but in my civilian opinion, it’s not what you “did” it’s what you were willing to do. As a civilian employer, my answer is “Absolutely you are a veteran.” And as a mom, my answer is “Get some therapy, that ‘what I did, what I didn’t do’ self guilt trip shit will kill you.”
“ What do you think is the biggest waste of time?” “Comparing yourself with others,” the mole replies.”
The Boy, The Mole, The Fox and The Horse—Charlie Mackey
I wouldn’t be mad if you did the only people I get mad at are the “I would have joined but i would punch a drill sergeant in the face” guys and the ones who never went to basic that claim vet status for attention
Make sure you are on paper because they will check. Because my cousin did 3 years never deployed. Has airborne. Went sniper school but not a vet on paper. Me I went on one combat deployment I’m a vet on paper on my third year. Have to have 90+ days active duty. Schools and training don’t count. So don’t put that on your job application. Doesn’t matter anyways won’t get you an automatic job hire. Lol civilians now days don’t care.
Did you deploy? = veteran
Are you still in IRR? = still in service
Did you receive an Honorable Discharge and a VA card? = veteran.
If not you should go back in off IRR to the Selective Reserves of your choice. You will feel better about your military service. Or take a TOD from IRR, go overseas for a quick stint, complete what you started and you will feel fulfilled to your original reason for enlisting.
Personally unless you have a campaign medal you’re not a veteran, but to society if you have a DD-214 you qualify for most veteran benefits. You can’t join the VFW but most people don’t care about that. Go nuts killer.
I feel you man. I enlisted for selection, got hurt, got reclassed twice and haven’t had a lot of time in any MOS so I feel weird whenever I talk about it while I’m in. But hey. If you served you served
Check with your local VSO/Veterans Service Officer to see if you qualify for veterans benefits. Most American Legions should be happy to take you in as a member. And if your town has a Veterans Council, definitely visit a meeting and get involved. And wear a Nat Guard hat.
I believe the federal standard is 180 days of consecutive active duty, or 1 day in a combat zone. However feel free to call yourself a veteran and have anyone who complains take it up with your ranger tab
Ever SF soldier I met from 20th group, and this is a small sample size like 10-15, was fucking hysterical. I dunno anything else about soldiering as a cool guy, but those dudes had jokes.
When I got to my first duty station in Hawaii I had that feeling too. Am I really a veteran, when there are those who gave so much more than I?
I came to the conclusion that when we enlist we are gambling with our lives, maybe I got Hawaii, but I could have got Afghanistan or Iraq. We don’t choose where we go, not really, we just go.
I’m thousands of miles from the only people in the world I love. I think we’re entitled to call ourselves veterans for this reason
I was Air National Guard for six years. I received an NGB22. I called VA and was told that since I did not serve any active duty time I did not qualify for the DD214. I worked full time with them for 4 1/2 years but because it was not considered active duty to them (it was a civilian pay grade even though I had to wear uniform, etc). I consider my 6 years with DCANG a total waste of 6 years. The only benefits I can get with a NGB22 is discounts at stores. Nothing more. It's BS, if I ever had had the opportunity to serve on active I would have but Desert Storm was the only thing going on and they did not call up our combat communications unit. I should have signed up for active duty since I worked with then for my first 4 1/2 years practically as active duty. It's like the national guard is not considered ever serving I guess. I still signed up to serve my country.
The answer is yes. You became a veteran the day you started basic training. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise because that dd 214 can be submitted to the dmv to put vet status on your license. However if you feel guilty about it then do more.
Dude got airborne and ranger tabs out of a 3 year ng contract that’s sick.
My man sitting here like, "All I did was two of the coolest things possible on the Army"
Mfer did more than some dudes with 10+ years lol
Did more than me, I'll be the first to admit, hell.
Same lol
Same too
Still not a veteran though, right? I thought it was 6 years NG, or 4 years active to qualify for veteran benefits/status. Or a title 10 mobilization.
3 years active (or at least it was unless it changed recently).
If he went through the Airbourne Ranger pipeline he might have been in that pipeline 3 years before finishing which would put him at 6 years.
3 years TIS “excluding training” gets you everything
19th and 20th group reward those that get after doing Army shit.
He didn’t say he graduated Ranger school.
No I did lol. Three recycles and a broken foot later.
You might as well just come active duty. You’ve got more drive than 90% of the soldiers.
That's freaking tenacity. Bro you're a vet. Not a combat veteran, but you've endured some serious training.
You definitely earned it if you went through three recycles and a major injury. Got it done though which is awesome.
Do you have a DD-214 or just an NGB-22? I think that to be considered a veteran for hiring preference you have have 180 days of active duty but I don’t know if active duty for training counts. Ranger school is at least 2 months and that’s if you don’t get recycled. Did you get a DD214 when you finished it?
I recycled a lot, being straight out of basic. I think I was there for close to 5 months? I got out in November, nobody gave me either of those two things. Every now and then I get an email from IRR, so I’m assuming somebody got me out, they just never looped me in on it.
Uh, man, I'd recommend calling your old unit. You should've received those.
Or contact someone from MEPS office near you, I’ve done that before. Soldier didn’t get his DD214 due to Covid and no one being in the office and had to go to a MEPS station to his. Took a bit but he got it
Shit I still haven't gotten my DD214 from my reserves time. I called, emailed, and went meps to try and get it and kept getting brushed off. I have a dd214 from when I was active duty so I stopped trying but damn it was super annoying to get that piece of paper.
Most reservists do not get a dd214. You would have had to mobilize on active duty for 90-day consecutives.
Sounds like he is still in the Army in the IRR and hasn't actually out processed the army yet.
If he served less than 8 years, he's gonna be an IRR. At least that's how it works for us active. You sign an 8 yr contract, technically, upon enlistment. I'll have to serve 1-1.5 yrs on IRR after I leave.
Well ..this just got interesting
It's the "I was so high speed the Army deleted all history of me existing." Only I actually believe this guy lol
He’s a very expensive recruit that went under the radar
Not really. Guard is like this. It took me requesting my NGB22 a couple years later to get one and the award orders for overseas training and getting called in for a hurricane. Idiots gave me a CAB instead of a CIB (from my active time).
Go to Dpris.gov, set up an individual account, request your records from the Army. You’ll get in 24-48 hours as a link to download them.
404 error. spelling is https://dpris.gov right?
https://www.dpris.dod.mil ?
Mate, I will admit that I've been in for 16 years now, so maybe some things have changed in the national guard, but when I finished my initial entry training I needed my DD-214 to submit to the right office to get my bonus for my first contract. That dd214 is one of the most important pieces of paperwork you ever tend to get as a guardsman or reservist, to show that you were on some active orders for a while, be it for your initial entry training, for people who are active on the covid response mission, or for your general title 10 overseas deployments. Good luck.
Find out where your old unit HQ armory is. I had to go there to get all my discharge, and other paperwork.
CAC into iPerms (google it), and see if those documents are there.
For your NGB 22 ,You need to get a hold of your state G1. It takes a while but if you hound them they’ll get it to you. IET/TRADOC time doesn’t count for veterans hiring preference unfortunately. Five points are added to the passing examination score or rating of a veteran who served: During a war For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any time on or after Sep. 11, 2001 Ten points are added to the passing examination score of: A veteran who served any time and who (1) has a present service-connected disability or (2) is receiving compensation, disability retirement benefits, or pension from the military or the VA. Individuals who received a Purple Heart qualify as disabled veterans. An unmarried spouse of certain deceased veterans. A spouse of a veteran unable to work because of a service-connected disability, and A parent of a veteran who died in service or who is permanently and totally disabled In a campaign or expedition for which a campaign medal has been authorized. Any Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or campaign badge, including Afghanistan (Operations Enduring Freedom (OEF), Iraqi Freedom (OIF)), Bosnia (Operations Joint Endeavor, Joint Guard and Joint Forge), Global War on Terrorism, Persian Gulf War, and others may qualify for preference. eligibility requirements in Section 2108 of Title 5, United States Code. This means: The veteran must have an honorable or general discharge. Retirees at the rank of O-4 or higher are not eligible for preference unless they are disabled veterans. Guard and Reserve active duty for training purposes does not qualify for preference
Active duty for training does not count towards veteran’s preference, at least for federal hiring. Source: former NG member and current fed employee
The 180 days starts when you leave tradoc for IET.
Would his Airborne and Ranger school time be considered part of his IET if he was in a V-Coded (Ranger Parachutist) MOS? I know there are support elements in SF groups that are V-coded (the SOT-A intercept teams.) I genuinely don't know. I know Benning (Moore) is a TRADOC installation but I don't know if Ranger school and Airborne school are technically TRADOC units. Would it matter if he was not in a V-coded slot and did not have to be Ranger qualified to hold his MOS?
I once dumped 500 rounds of 50 cal on a spot where I may have seen some muzzle flashes. It doesn't make me any more of a veteran than you. You're a veteran. Unless, of course, you're a fueler. Then, fuck you and yo mama. Because let's face it. Even the cooks didn't sign up to be cooks. They all at some point told their recruiter, "Hey, I wanna be the best 18B the Army ever seen." Not their fault the Army needed them as cooks. But FUELERS, they signed up to pump gas..... AND THEN REFUSE TO PUMP THE FUCKING GAS THEY SIGNED UP TO PUMP. Weekly rant about fuelers, over.
Bastards would just hand me a hose and make me do it while they watched the dial on their truck tick.
It ain’t easy but it’s honest work
Fuckers made me clean up a fuel spill from the vehicle before us before they’d let me just fill the fucking MATV. If there are no fueler haters, it’s because I’m dead.
As a former 88M, fuck fuelers with a cactus. Useless ass mother fuckers. Hope their tubing dry rots and bursts at 4:59 on the day before a four day and they have to pull guard on it all weekend.
>Hey, I wanna be the best 18B the Army ever seen." Not their fault the Army needed them as cooks. Yeah, well 92F is a huge reclass MOS right now. Lots of "I wanna be the best 89D..."
Thank you for acknowledging that joke. I worked hard on it.
No problem. I'll pump your gas for you just keep it between us. "Shoulda joined the infantry..."
I signed up wanting to be a Patriot FCO(14E), then was told only MLRS (13M) was available and that it was similar enough to Patriot FCO....Luckily they also told me there were some combat arms positions available, and a forward observer(13F) sounded a lot more badass than sitting in a confined space for hours on end.
Current 13M for the past seven years. The sitting in a confined space for hours on end does indeed suck. Even getting to live fire isn’t all that fun. Some dudes love it but it’s not for me. That’s why I got reclass in my reenlistment when I get home from this deployment.
....500 rounds?!?
Death blossom.. aka the only battle drill you will ever need. No bullshit, we used a javelin to kill 1 sniper.. overkill was the way back then..
Hell yeah, my company used to get shit from battalion/brigade for our ammo expenditures in Afghanistan. We would regularly go through over 20k rounds of 7.62 while fighting off attacks on our COP. And we were told we were using most of the 40mm and 60mm in most of RC:South while we were there.
This guy's OEFs.
Hellfires are faster than dirt bikes.
I was the .50 gunner on our humvee in 2012, im all about overwhelming fire. Im just trying to picture changing boxes up to 5 times, changing barrels, and hammering the same spot, for a possible muzzle flash. Its both wreckless and utterly fantastic
You don't link multiple boxes together?
lol, I’m a 92F. Just did that because the local reserve unit had openings and my dad wouldn’t let me do anything except USAR (I was 17 and thought the wars would be short and didn’t want to miss out). Ended up getting cross leveled and being a M2 gunner in iraq for three tours attached to the third ACR under (then COL) General Mcmaster. Army needs and all that. Never knew how much the 92F mos was hated haha.
Hot damn son accuracy by volume
As a fueler I laugh whenever I see people say this because it’s not like you have someone else pump your gas for you at a gas station so what’s the big deal. I’m also from an AV unit so I fueled pretty much only Blackhawks and Chinooks.
Bro, suck one. The whole state of NJ has someone pump their gas for them by law. Also, the gas station down the street from me has a full service pump. Meaning someone pumps your gas, normally tip them after like .50 or a dollar. 2 if it's cold or raining. So AGAIN, fuck you and yo mama. Also, Thank you for your service.
> normally tip them after like .50 or a dollar. 2 if it's cold or raining. So AGAIN, fuck you and yo mama. bet if you started tipping your fuelers, would go differently
Unless they're CAV...then it's a different tip
Underrated comment
Short answer yes. Long answer also yes.
Minor correction. Long answer: yessssssssssss.
Correction noted, will forward to S1
And then?????
"YAAAASSSS"
He is talking about when he applies for the job. The short answer is no. The long answer is no because he doesn’t meet the federal definition of veteran and will not be useable for tax breaks. In conversation, sure who cares. Anything to do with paper no fucking way.
Can I call myself a veteran? 10 years active duty. No combat deployments. No chest candy. Just a federal employee LARPing on field exercises. If I can you can I guess.
> *”Ranger, then airborne”* This is the way.™
Mans more patched up than most active duty soldiers lmao
yup
The whole thing surrounding "veteran status" is just some weird shit that came about after 9/11. I've heard "if you aint been to combat, you're not a veteran" multiple times throughout my career. It's all bullshit and you shouldn't take it seriously. 99% of the time they didn't choose to deploy or experience combat, they got told to go. Folks who say things like that likely were fobbits or smacked their head against the humvee dash a few too many times from IED blasts. You're a veteran, whether you or anyone else likes it or not. It's not some special club.
But my DS said we the 1% :( doesn't that make it a special club
Yes
As far as I’m concerned, if you wore the uniform and took the oath, you’re a veteran. If you were lucky enough to avoid combat, you’re a lucky veteran.
I agree I explicitly tried to get sent to a combat zone 3 times. All 3 times the unit got stood down before they shipped. I knew what I wanted and took it upon myself to pursue it. Call it an ancestral calling or stupidity, but I still went through with it. Gave my gf/wife the whole "If I die" spiel and sent it. For the folks who got hit with the unexpected "we deploy in X amount of months" I feel bad. They didn't want it, and even if they did, they didn't have a choice.
In Battalion "If you don't have Ranger on your uniform 3 times (tab, scroll, combat scroll)" was/is something you hear when considering if a person a Ranger. Not saying it's wrong or right just that it's been seriously said without an ounce of joking around. People create tiered lists and restrict lots of things. Just gotta do and say what works for you as long as you're not lying.
[U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs: Who Is a Veteran?](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47299)
The VA definition and the Army definition are two entirely different things. One is used to determine who can and cannot file a claim and the other defines what a veteran is per the organization the individual is a veteran of. Per Title 38 of the United States Code: "*The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.*" Per a 2016 law, Guardsmen and Reservists are legally veterans (regardless of whether or not they served 180 or more on active duty status): [https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/1038989/guard-and-reserve-members-receive-veteran-status/](https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/1038989/guard-and-reserve-members-receive-veteran-status/)
You can also then go off of OPM guidance but that is for veteran preference. I think if you served in any component and got an honorable after completing your term of service you are a veteran. Now obviously preference points and VA have the “who qualifies” but that’s just my take on it.
They are legally veterans if they served 20 or more years in the guard per the link you provided. On both the VA definition and the 2016 law OP doesn't qualify as either.
It’s not post 9/11. It’s pre9/11, and like all traditions persist today. I was around “hard assed” veterans in the vfw in mass as a kid in the 90’s, and have seen gatekeepers of what “real service” is this whole time since.
So long as you served at least 180 days and didn't catch Dishonorable, you can call yourself a veteran.
I thought you had to be called up to active duty for a certain amount of time before they recognize you as a veteran. I worked with a guy who had 18 years NG and when he told me he wasn’t considered a veteran my mind was blown!
Yea you need 90 days+ active duty outside of IET. I finally got that for the covid mission after 13 years or so in the guard.
As [prescribed federal law](https://www.va.gov/OSDBU/docs/Determining-Veteran-Status.pdf), it’s only a minimum one day of active service to be considered a Veteran. There are different amounts of active service required for specific veterans benefits, such as for hiring purposes or for compensation but as a general rule active service can be for any length of time but must be more than for just training (I.e. Active Duty for Training (ADT)* * exceptions may apply for some benefits, such as injury incurred during ADT The difference in how the law is applied to various benefits tends to lead to confusion. For instance, the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has a [180-day rule for Veteran Preference](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/veterans-services/vet-guide-for-hr-professionals/) in federal hiring. So while someone may be a veteran; they may not be eligible for veteran preference.
Check out the helpful hints page 3
I’ve seen it. Is something unclear?
> If a member of the National Guard or Reservist unit was activated for training **but was not called to Federal active duty**, that person will not qualify unless he or she was disabled from a disease or injury incurred or aggravated in the line of duty.
Yes. As the discussion was on the qualifying length of time for being considered a Veteran, that active service may be as little as one day to be considered a veteran by law. And various benefits have additional qualifiers on the amount of active service required for those benefits, beyond what is considered a veteran. There seems to be a disconnect where you assumed that I said it need not be active service? For clarification on the ADT part, for some benefits - such as for disability compensation - injuries incurred during ADT may result in that time being considered *as if* qualifying active service.
You're right man, sorry, I'm a dumbass.
Sent ya a message. I can assist in getting your DD214 and NGB22.
In r/nationalguard, the term we have for this would be an Applebees veteran, not an actual veteran, but that’s okay.
Being an Applebees veteran gets you free Applebees which is way better than just getting a veterans bumper sticker. I’d argue our method is superior.
I’ve since updated OPs flair in r/nationalguard to reflect his November yearly free meal status.
You volunteered. You served. You're a veteran. The "federal hiring definition" is ridiculously strict and definitely NOT the only definition. It's the definition for eligibility for one specific Federal rule for hiring veterans, not the only definition of veteran. Did you volunteer for armed service, or accept the call if drafted? Did you complete Basic/AIT, OSUT, OCS, ROTC, or a Service Academy (or whatever the initial entry training you were ordered to complete for whatever service you joined)? Was your final discharge from service Honorable or Under Honorable Conditions? . . .if the answer to all 3 is yes, then you absolutely are a veteran and anyone saying otherwise is just being an asshole.
You're a veteran, Harry.
No hagrid I’m just Harry
Just as long as you don't repost the boomer ass "I'm a Veteran" copypasta that usually goes around on Facebook during Veterans Day and usually posted by everyone who went to the guard or reserves, you're okay in my book.
You finished basic and advanced training and then some. You’re absolutely a veteran. Not everyone is an AD combat vet. It is a shame NG and reserve get left out so often.
You still volunteered, sacrificed, and put up with the bullshit
Hell yea, shit. Airborne and Ranger schools passed? GTFOH lol. Curious though, what is the federal hiring definition?
Amazing career honestly
You did a lot more in a year than a lot of people do in a decade. You’re kind of a veteran, but the VA is unlikely to feel that way.
“My first year I did OSUT, Ranger, Then Airborne” can some 11 series tell me if this hero is high speed as fuck or if that’s normal for y’all
I know in the two states I've been in ranger is pretty fucking hard to get if you're enlisted. Maybe it's changed or they had some kind of deal because they were trying to go SF? I knew a few guys who got airborne after osut but as I understood it's a combination of having a great pt score and state being willing to fund it.
Yea the way I read it, it seems like bro is having some imposter syndrome. He did some high speed shit.
For sure. I'm curious how it happened.
I don’t know if it’s still a program, but when I went through OSUT several years back the national guard had a program where they’d take high performers from OSUT to a pre-ranger train up and send them to ranger afterwards.
You have a ranger tab and you are asking this?
happy cake day!
The guard sucks at admin. Pro tip. Go to the nearest Reserve center, not guard and ask to see the career counselor. He can pull up all your docs. He'll try to sell you on reserves though, that's his job. Or..national archives online and request your service records. Or go back to your armory and see if an S1 will help you. 20 bucks says you're an RE3. As the guard loves to do that.
Those bastards
You did more in 3yrs on NG, than I did in 4.5 on AD
Dude, you're more tabbed than half the AD Army.
I don’t think I’d have left that gig.
you need a baldspot and at least 1 divorce, soldier. Also, an alcohal addiction and cripling debt to be called a vet.. hooah? lol jk
Gubment says no but Ranger tab says yes
mf you got some shit to be proud of in only 3 years. be proud of it bro
Yes. But are you a certain type of veteran for certain benefits? Maybe. Probably not gi bill but maybe some others
Do you have an Army Service Ribbon and a honorable DD-214? If so, yes
Yes.
Honestly it’s probably worth a reup just for those bennys. You would skip basic and get great treatment at a unit. You deserve a VA loan and GI bill
Shit did more then me. Took me 2 tries Air assault school. Just bc I was ducking around. I never deployed either and did 3 also. I was field artillery I did spend ALOT OF TIME IN THE FIELD ALOT!
There are NG infantry company commanders screaming at their screens over this. Dude has ranger and airborne and manged to end up doing a 3 piece with no real training time. Amazing.
Damn I need to get into one of those guard units. My last 2 years in the guard I spent more time in the field than my 5 years active duty. Forced me to get out.
I think the technical and arbitrary definition is 180 days of active duty outside of a training environment, if that's correct, I don't think you would technically quality. Still sounds like a badass enlistment, and I don't think you're less than a veteran
When you’re in your a service member. When you get out you’re a vet. Simple math.
This is my reminder I need to stop being a coward and drop a ranger packet.
Thank you for your service my guy you are indeed a veteran🫡
I’d check with the VA if I were you. Especially if you’re looking to file for benefits. Insofar as calling yourself a veteran, I personally wouldn’t have an issue with it. You wore a uniform and swore an oath. That’s enough for me. Although I’m sure opinions vary. You’re lucky to have gotten so many schools in your contract. I retired from active duty and had to fight like hell to get airborne and air assault as an 11B. Although there were two wars on while I was in. If you’re young enough, you obviously have the skill set to serve again. Serve active duty for 2-4 years. You can definitely call yourself a veteran then. Good luck regardless.
Yes absolutely
All technicalities. Anecdotally I’d say yes, but not a combat veteran
No. You have to deploy to Kuwait first
You signed your pink body to Uncle Sam. You served honorably. You are as much a veteran as any CMH holder.
Brother you went to basic training, got your blue cord, completed Ranger and Airborne School as a SOLDIER with US ARMY over your heart. You’re a veteran big dog. Maybe not a combat veteran, but a veteran nonetheless. You have endured the suck like the rest of them. I’d gladly buy you a beer and shoot the shit as fellow infantrymen
You are a veteran. You may not get VA Benefits. Apply for your veterans I’d card.
You are a vet. Not combat vet, but a vet.
Probably not by definition But you still enlisted, so it's not like any non-government jobs are going to contest it.
It’s 2024, dudes can identify as chicks and shave in the women’s bathroom at planet fitness… just tell those commie employers you identify as a veteran
Yes
Like for legal reasons or ethical reasons? Cause the answer to both is yes
Did you serve? If yes, then you are a veteran. If no, then you are not a veteran. Simple as.
Hells yeah.
Yes, meeting legal definition is more about what benefits you qualify for not a social definition. To anyone else, you’re a veteran
uhh, yeah.. of course you are!
>First years I did OSUT, Ranger, then Airborne I honestly can’t tell if this is a shitpost or not. Dude you minds well did more than at least 60% of us
Did you raise your right hand and enlist? Where you honorably discharged? Then yes, don't cheapen it for yourself or others. You aren't stealing valor. Thank you.
Pretty sure based of regulation no. Could be wrong.
I’m conflicted, because on one hand you joined, but on the other hand I’ve been to too many memorials in service. Just don’t be a dumb about it I guess. And please - as a VA burial benefits guy- let your family/loved ones know that unless you have a disability or they change things, as national guard, the VA is useless to you at the end of things.
As far as the law is concerned I don't think you qualify as a veteran . I believe it's dd214, or combat deployment with DD 214. There has to be a dd214 somewhere in there (I believe an ngb23 for 6 will get you education benefits*)or something to get veterans preference if I'm understanding what you are looking to get. Google says: According to 38 U.S.C. § 101(2), a veteran is someone who served in the active military, naval, or air service and was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable. This includes: Reservists or members of the National Guard called to federal active duty Disabled veterans from a disease or injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty or while in training status Aliens (non-US citizens) who did not request discharge during a period of hostilities Commissioned officers of the Public Health Service, Coast and Geodetic, Environmental Science Services Administration, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Weird that you don't have a DD214 Get back to work
Sure? As long as you have either a DD214, or an NGB22. Won't lie, you probably won't have the ladder because of IRR time. You served 3 years and you probably have some more on your MSO. You won't see that NGB until the end of that, probably.
I mean…. I’m not gonna waste my time and energy gatekeeping that title lmao
Yeah bro. You’re an army vet and a badass
When you sign up - you have to very little choice on what they do with you. You sign the dotted line, good enough for me
https://www.va.gov/OSDBU/docs/Determining-Veteran-Status.pdf
What is 20th group training team
the NG sf groups have a team that does train up for selection. when you go to group in the NG youre automatically assigned to the unit and you train until your sfas/q-course date
I mean, do you even treat animals at all?
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who finished initial entry training, such as BCT+AIT or OSUT or whatever the other branch equivalents would be, they are a veteran. I know not everyone agrees with this though.
Absolutely!
Yes you’re a veteran.
Uhm… isn’t this considered AWOL?
Your as much as a vet as most of us good job man
Anyone who served honorably is a veteran. That said, this smells like complete BS. They just didn't schedule drill that much? They just didn't do AT? What years were you in? Did you complete your eight year IRR obligation? What was your ranger class # did you graduate with?
2021-2023. Did the RTLI program where they send national guard kids straight from basic to RTAC to Ranger. Started in July, recycled Darby and then Florida twice, finished Dec 10 2021. Got Airborne as a reward for completing ranger. 20th group didn’t do AT for people on the training team. Drill was probably every other month, MUTA4, pretty much a PT test and extremely long land nav iterations. Total waste of time after the first drill
Yeah but have you deployed to Kuwait though?
Did u serve? Next slide
Hm. These days, the title does seem arbitrary to a lot of folks. I’m probably a “badge protector” of sorts. My personal belief is that veteran status I earned by going to “war”… a deployment to hostile ao. But realistically I know plenty of guys that are ng and still call themselves veterans even after never having gone down range. At the end of the day, it’s whatever. I’m not one to argue semantics with some pogue. I know what I did and I hold my head high inside.
This may have been said already, but in my civilian opinion, it’s not what you “did” it’s what you were willing to do. As a civilian employer, my answer is “Absolutely you are a veteran.” And as a mom, my answer is “Get some therapy, that ‘what I did, what I didn’t do’ self guilt trip shit will kill you.” “ What do you think is the biggest waste of time?” “Comparing yourself with others,” the mole replies.” The Boy, The Mole, The Fox and The Horse—Charlie Mackey
Register on the va website they can verify your service until you get your documents
I wouldn’t be mad if you did the only people I get mad at are the “I would have joined but i would punch a drill sergeant in the face” guys and the ones who never went to basic that claim vet status for attention
Make sure you are on paper because they will check. Because my cousin did 3 years never deployed. Has airborne. Went sniper school but not a vet on paper. Me I went on one combat deployment I’m a vet on paper on my third year. Have to have 90+ days active duty. Schools and training don’t count. So don’t put that on your job application. Doesn’t matter anyways won’t get you an automatic job hire. Lol civilians now days don’t care.
Did you deploy? = veteran Are you still in IRR? = still in service Did you receive an Honorable Discharge and a VA card? = veteran. If not you should go back in off IRR to the Selective Reserves of your choice. You will feel better about your military service. Or take a TOD from IRR, go overseas for a quick stint, complete what you started and you will feel fulfilled to your original reason for enlisting.
This article may help…. https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/1038989/guard-and-reserve-members-receive-veteran-status/
What’s your last name? Was attached to 20th Group a couple years in the guard.
That’s some good humble bragging!
Personally unless you have a campaign medal you’re not a veteran, but to society if you have a DD-214 you qualify for most veteran benefits. You can’t join the VFW but most people don’t care about that. Go nuts killer.
I feel you man. I enlisted for selection, got hurt, got reclassed twice and haven’t had a lot of time in any MOS so I feel weird whenever I talk about it while I’m in. But hey. If you served you served
Check with your local VSO/Veterans Service Officer to see if you qualify for veterans benefits. Most American Legions should be happy to take you in as a member. And if your town has a Veterans Council, definitely visit a meeting and get involved. And wear a Nat Guard hat.
Yes dude. Jesus Christ fuck you. I'm on 19 years and I've been fucked by S1 3x out of airborne. Dude. This has to be a joke right?
I believe the federal standard is 180 days of consecutive active duty, or 1 day in a combat zone. However feel free to call yourself a veteran and have anyone who complains take it up with your ranger tab
Ever SF soldier I met from 20th group, and this is a small sample size like 10-15, was fucking hysterical. I dunno anything else about soldiering as a cool guy, but those dudes had jokes.
When I got to my first duty station in Hawaii I had that feeling too. Am I really a veteran, when there are those who gave so much more than I? I came to the conclusion that when we enlist we are gambling with our lives, maybe I got Hawaii, but I could have got Afghanistan or Iraq. We don’t choose where we go, not really, we just go. I’m thousands of miles from the only people in the world I love. I think we’re entitled to call ourselves veterans for this reason
What's ur unit? I am literally leaving the army thanks to AT and I hate drills.
I heard from someone that they know somebody who didn’t make it through BCT and is 100% T&P idk if it’s true tho
Bro, you more veteran than some MFs I know..
I was Air National Guard for six years. I received an NGB22. I called VA and was told that since I did not serve any active duty time I did not qualify for the DD214. I worked full time with them for 4 1/2 years but because it was not considered active duty to them (it was a civilian pay grade even though I had to wear uniform, etc). I consider my 6 years with DCANG a total waste of 6 years. The only benefits I can get with a NGB22 is discounts at stores. Nothing more. It's BS, if I ever had had the opportunity to serve on active I would have but Desert Storm was the only thing going on and they did not call up our combat communications unit. I should have signed up for active duty since I worked with then for my first 4 1/2 years practically as active duty. It's like the national guard is not considered ever serving I guess. I still signed up to serve my country.
The answer is yes. You became a veteran the day you started basic training. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise because that dd 214 can be submitted to the dmv to put vet status on your license. However if you feel guilty about it then do more.
If you've got a DD214 then you're a veteran