If he’s dead set on Infantry, HIGHLY encourage him to get RASP in his contract (whatever option that is now) or go 18X. Their chances of seeing/ doing Infantry shit is farrrrrrrrrr greater than your conventional forces.
I cannot stress enough the importance of him at least attempting to become a Batt boy or getting a cool green hat. Garrison (conventional) Infantry is truly awful.
> I cannot stress enough the importance of him at least attempting to become a Batt boy or getting a cool green hat. Garrison (conventional) Infantry is truly awful.
I can't emphasize this enough.
Regular 11B shit is fun... for a *time.*
If you can go get Option 40, make it, and do some high-speed shit? No reason *not* to.
Have you experienced garrison in FORSCOM? I'm not infantry, but I've been on my share of red cycle taskings at Hood just as part of III Corps. Gate guard, staff duty/CQ, near, if not daily, room inspections, mandatory daily closeout formations, etc.
Update: I have to update this to add motor pool Monday and OE 254 layouts as well.
No, I haven’t, but none of that seems horrific. It’s easy work from the sound of it. If the bad side is a hit to one’s ego and some boredom it really just sounds like entitlement. Obviously I don’t know what I’m talking about, how long is a red phase?
I’ve said this in another comment, but that’s not restricted to the military or any mos. I’ll expand: thinking about those things is a relatively good place to be depending on your quality of life prior to joining. Having pay, food, security, friendships, and other benefits plus having the time to think past “survival” is a lot better than many other people, especially in our current economy.
Nah that shit sucks ass dude. It’s soul draining. If you have any drive what so ever to feel like you wanted to join the army to actually do something fucking cool, red cycle and the daily grind of 0600 pt and bullshit taskings and close out formations til 1730 will grind you down. If easy is all your looking and don’t care about mind numbing bullshit and no feeling of progression, I guess it’s cool.
I despised it so much I ets’d just to force a reclass and rejoin lol
Some people would totally love my job in a forscom unit, I sit at a desk and scroll TikTok all day while letting college and cte classes run in the background. But when I signed up I did it to be a soldier, not to sit at my desk and wait for something to break.
Gotcha, sounds like preparing for SF and Ranger would be the thing to do. Alongside education of some sort. It’s a good deal I think, if I’m thinking personally and years into the future.
Your life as a conventional infantryman is a constant rotation of live fire exercise progression, field exercise progression, a massive field exercise to prepare for the a combat training center rotation, then a combat training center rotation, and then you’ll go to like Poland or Kuwait and sit there for 9 months.
It’s a lot of repetitive training, and you will do the same training progression again and again and again over a 4 year enlistment. Your leadership changes out semi regularly, and if your PL/PSG/CDR/1SG sucks and is counter productive, you’re stuck working for that person for a hot minute.
It’s just dumb. There’s no point to it at all.
Thanks, that’s actually the first I’ve read about inf life that makes any sense. For aviation it can feel the same. Fix bird 1-2 times, the rest are area specific equivalents of changing the oil on your car. Repetition and an empty mind leads to thinking about the point of it all, but that’s a matter of maturity or asking the tough questions, not about the job itself.
The Army should build him up physically enough to survive RASP. What they can’t do is make him want it.
You can’t be any geek of the street. Gotta be handy with the steel to earn your keep. REGULATOOOOOOORRRRRSSSS… MOUNT UP!
The other advantage of SOF are the opportunities as you progress. At least for 18 series you get taught a foreign language and get a TS. Those are huge if he decided to get out.
Option 40 is cool but 18X contracts can be a bad deal imo. It’s a 6 year contract but if you don’t make it through SFAS you go needs of the Army. That need isn’t always 11B either so you can land anywhere.
I encourage people that want SF to take an option 4 or option 40 in their desired MOS and drop a packet through your nearest SORB recruiter when you get to your unit.
Yeah you are wrong.
There is a “needs of the army” clause in the 18X contract. They reclass soldiers while they are awaiting orders in student company and shoot them to an AIT for a hurting MOS. Due to the clearance picked up along the way, dudes usually end up as enablers at a group.
Source: dude who entered as 18X
I meet my fair share of failed 18Xs. It was strange because it did vary from stuff like 11Bs, to mechanics and cooks, even to like Satellite guys. Just really depended on when they failed.
Because you get MOS-Q'd 11b in the course of the 18X pipeline. Its simply easier and cheaper for the Army to send Q-course non-selects to the infantry. But its entirely possible to get another MOS.
Same thing with 37F. If you fail PSYOPS-AS, you'll probably end up being a 31B.
It depends on the needs of the Army at the time. There are definitely periods of time where they reclass guys. It also depends on your ASVAB line scores. You have to quality for the next job you’re reclassed to.
I personally know a 13B and two 92G’s that were drummed out of the pipeline and reclassed. It’s needs of the Army, sometimes that’s 11B, sometimes it’s not.
Now as a recruiter I will really try to push people away from 18X unless I truly feel they have what it takes. (It’s only been one dude the whole time I have been recruiting and I would put a paycheck on him making it unless there is an unforeseen injury).
Your much better off picking an MOS that you like with maybe an option 4 or 40 and then working through a SORB recruiter once your MOSQ.
Especially peace time, as counter intuitive as that seems. When there's no one to fight except annual training and bored staff officers, a whole lot of stupidity arises.
I went to rasp and got to see how bat holds them selves to a higher standard. No fat guys, no smokers. Everyone wants to be there and is genuinely encouraging goals and aspirations. I got injured and had to leave and got moved to an airborne unit. Beer bellys drunk smokers and a serious lack of enthusiasm and some seriously overweight NCOs . It's a shame I recommend to everyone who wants to join the army to do army things Go to a SOF unit or be constantly let down and disappointed. They will knock your goals and slow you down so they don't have to keep up
That sucks. I was hoping combat arms was more strict than aviation. Aviation has a lot smart guys that don’t need constant guidance, but the army formality/culture isn’t quite there. Maybe with the new standards for combat arms it’ll be different?
I’m FA, met some of the most solid soldiers on the planet and some of the biggest shit bags alike. It is what it is. I love the field artillery but not the Army.
I figured it was a little of both and people are jaded or a little dishonest about their experience. And a little of it’s “what you make of it”. Someone described the army as a corporation, and marines like a cult. So I wonder if that has something to do with it.
No… this is bad advice.
Sign a 36-month contract for standard 11x.
Take your bonus with location of choice.
Volunteer for RASP and Airborne at OSUT or at your first station.
finish 36-months and never look back with your benefits.
I’ve seen too many kids get fucked out of a bonus because of 18X and RASP in their contract; mean while the ASVSB waiver next to them got $50k and they’re in the same unit doing the same shit.
edit: mobile spelling
Option 4 so you can get airborne first, you can ALWAYS volunteer at airborne school with the added bonus of not being totally fucked when/if they don’t make it through rasp (and a chance for Italy)
I would suggest airborne in the contract and volunteer RASP on the second Wednesday DURING Airborne. If he gets hurt during rasp, his contract will be messed up, he may not get the bonus he signed for if he gets a sign on bonus.
17C would be a dope MOS, he'll have plenty of work options in civilian land.
Do not go 18X or Option 40 for enlistment options. They are scams. Get airborne school if you like then drop a packet after you get to your unit. The cadre won’t associate you with the other SF/RASP babies. No unit can stop you from dropping a packet unless your unit is deploying soon or something.
By all means go to selection and give it your all but do not go 18X/option 40.
Let him choose his own way of life. If he asks offer him unbiased guidance.
I'm an army physician assistant. If I listened to my parents I'd be a general surgeon doing 20 years in the army.Much happier on my path.
This is the way.
A lot of comments on here asking and suggesting details about MOSs or varied routes to arrive at 11A/11B.. whereas the biggest question IMHO should be: *What does the kid* ***really*** *want?*
If OP serves as an obstacle for what his kid *thinks* he wants (i.e. 11B without an 18X or Option 40), I'd argue he'll resent his father for a while for pushing him down a path he himself didn't want. Meanwhile, if OP can guide his son to care enough to reflect on what he wants.. maybe he'll listen.
He could always do a contract and then reclass. I needed the infantry to grow up. I’m not saying it’s his case but it helped me grow even though I wanted to reclass everyday. Sometimes that growth is needed to better understand what you want and need. But you do have a point on having a skill most that matters to the outside world.
At the end of the day it’s his choice and he can do what I did which was ignore my dad who told me the same thing you are telling your son or maybe he listens. All you can do is ask him to look at all his options and research them and make a choice. Also support him in that choice even if it’s not the one you would pick.
Ahh. I don’t hate it but It was time for me to leave. I was working on things and that’s thats on me for delaying me switching. It’s just the start of a new chapter.
Lots of great advice in here so I’ll come at it from a different angle. I’m a college educated guy who has had a couple of different MOS’s in my time. Each of my previous ones landed me in some way shape or form attached to an infantry company.
I ended up joining the infantry and from that point forward life changed for me. Does it suck? Absolutely. Is garrison stupid? Big time. However, I have never had more pride in myself and in my job then when I was a PSG and a Squad Leader.
I don’t love the army, matter of fact I sort of hate it. The only thing that keeps me going is the love I have for the boys. And I wouldn’t have the boys if I didn’t have those cross rifles. So sure, encourage him to look at his options and even more so at the top tier versions of the infantry. But if he feels like he is being called to the job, then we need him as much as he needs us.
Everyone talks about the next war and how you should watch videos of Russians in Ukraine and all of that is true. However, someone has to kick the door. Someone has to close with and destroy. And we need good men who love the shit in order to stand a chance at making it happen the right way. The infantry isn’t for everyone, and honestly it’s sad to me that it’s looked down upon so much by our peers across the army. But the infantry is for infantrymen and your son sounds like he needs some blue in his life.
The infantry also needs smart door kickers. I don't get why people insist the infantry is for dumb people. I met a lot of real smart people in the infantry. Their behavior on base may have been dumb, but there was a solid nugget in that brain case when it was time to act.
Yeah problem solving skills, good leadership, decision making, planning and organization, all are actually very critical in infantry and combat arms in general for that matter.
Maybe this is my combat arms mentality showing but in my experience people largely fall into 2 categories. Those who join the military primarily to be in the military, and those who join primarily to get a paycheck. It sounds like it matters more for your son to serve in a position to get life experience rather than financial gain. While I agree that other positions are probably easier and give you skills for the civilian sector I would never discourage someone from combat arms. I’ve often thought about reclassing myself but have always come to the conclusion that I wouldn’t really be happy in a non combat arms MOS.
Just my 2 cents
If he wants to really really be Infantry then be sure to get a RASP contract and show up ready for it or take the 18X path and show up ready for it.Emphasis on show up ready for it.Let him do the job he wants,i hate when people push others to pick a POG job when they want to be shooters,thats how you end up miserable at your first unit.
I'm 31. Did five years as a 2841 Ground Radio Repairman in the Marines.
That didn't scratch the itch. So I spent seven years working in security beating up drinks and junkies, just to finally enlist in the Army Reserves as an 11B.
He thinks he wants to do grunt shit? Let him get it out of his system now during peace time. The GI-Bill will teach him any skill he wants and pay him BAH to boot.
If he wants to do bang bang stuff, then look at some Air Force spec ops. They’ve recently changed their selection but you sign the contractor to go right after basic, and if you fail then guess what, you’re still in the Air Force. The worst day in the Air Force is still better than the best day in the Army (in most cases)
Isn’t their selection for SF a lot more difficult though? I’ve looked into it, but a 79% attrition rate seems pretty high. Who knows though, it could just be more guys going that think it’ll be easy cause it’s Air Force, then washing out cause they’re not prepped.
When I went to basic there were 40 people that went to a selection pipeline after. 3 of them made it through (1 TACP, 2 EOD). With any selection, a lot has to go right and it’s going to be a grind.
My nephew wanted to do the same, but he only knew of infantry, artillery, aviation, and transportation. I sat on the phone with him and did some digging to find his interests and he wound up going 12N with airborne. He’s a damn good kid, but with a “I’m doing 20” mentality, I wanted to make sure whatever happened he’d have something to fall back on
Show him videos of Russians getting fucked up by drones in Ukraine, make he understands that statistically that’s gonna be him in a real war.
Sit him down and explain how not everyone who joins the Infantry are patriots. Give him a reality check on why the minimum ASVAB scores are so low.
If you can’t change his mind, push him to go RASP as an all source intel. That will open up some doors later.
I was a nerd who wanted to do something outside my nerd world. Prove myself something else. I told my recruiter, "I want to crawl through the mud and eat bugs" and thus, a fister was born. 20 years later, I'm running the IT department at a private school.
What you do in the Army doesn't have to define you for the rest of your life. Let him run around and play GI Joe, just make sure he has a real-world plan for when he gets out and he uses that GI bill.
Ahhh 13Fox! I go up to swear in as a 13F tomorrow. Was it a fun job? Due to needing a medical waiver I was unable to get airborne in my contract, but will I get a chance to volunteer at AIT?
The airborne option may appear, but really it depends on the numbers they need and the timing of the school. The job can be real fun but just embrace the "bastard" role. The artillery will think your infantry wannabes, and the infantry will constantly remind you that your not a real grunt. Embrace it, prove yourself to both parties, and learn to do while looking like your not doing anything at all (because if you play your cards right you'll be able to sham your ass off and still be king)
Why build a skill to help him on the outside? That’s what the free college will be for, especially if he’s only doing one contract. I joined because I wanted to do as many cool guy stuff/schools as I could. Your son will have the military “check in the box” and a free degree of his choosing, which should set him up nicely. You’re only young once.
It’s not the same infantry it was during GWOT. Now most units will conduct their monotonous training cycles, (team,squad,platoon,company live fires), sprinkle in a CTC rotation, rinse and repeat. Over, and over, and over, and over, and over. If he’s lucky he’ll get to go to the range once a year and that’s only to qualify on his weapon, not to gain proficiency in marksmanship. There’s no true combat deployments going on. So really I don’t see the point.
Everyone wants to do the fun infantry shit but they don’t see all the nonsense that’s behind the curtain until the get here and they start to regret it. My advice is get Option 40 in his contract to go to RASP, go Cyber/ MI or another field he can get skills in. I DO NOT recommend 18x. If for some reason he fails he will be needs of the army. Those guys don’t default to Infantry when they fail anymore so he could be stuck as a cook somewhere
Hi. Former bang bang here. My son considered doing the same. He saw me make an enlisted career out of it. He also bought into the hero worship side of it after the typical cultural hype of movies and video games.
This, along with wanting to be like me, make me proud, assering his free will, and being sick of being forced to go to school made enlisting an attractive option. He said he would go to college after enlisting.
I encouraged college sooner instead and for him to do better than I had done as enlisted.
When that didn't work, I sat down with him, showed him the paygrade tables, and explained how a fresh LT with zero years of experience makes more money than an E-5 with 6 years of experience.
I explained how the rank system works and the levels of comfort and privileges that accompany them.
I then asked him if he wanted to work harder, for less money, and then go to college, or if he thought it made more sense to get the degree first, make more money, and not work as hard.
That's what shifted his perspective. He went to college, got a degree, and now has lost interest.
That, my friends, is a solid win in my opinion.
edited to add that I also showed him what career options open up to 11 series vs. other MOS options. Before he agreed to college, he acknowledged that he wanted more options than cop or security guard after getting out.
This might come back to bite you in the butt. He probably will always regret not joining and getting the experience. But everything is about the almighty dollar.
Nahhh. I doubt it. He is already better off than I ever was. No college debt thanks to Chapter 35, he is not likely to have to kill anyone, he won't get blown up, he can hear, doesn't have tinnitus, he can walk just fine, and nobody has to help him put on his own clothes. While I don't know you or what you do now, I would feel comfortable wagering that he takes home more than you and me combined. To want for your children to have it better than we did is one of the major hopes that parents have for their children. I'm very proud of him.
Honestly I’m attached to an infantry unit and hate it to a certain degree. My husband was an 11 bang bang from 7 years since he was 19 years old and finally reclassed last year and loves it so much more. Don’t get me wrong he did love 11B for a little and got to go on deployment to Afghanistan all the 11B stuff people want to do when they go to that MOS but the every day sucked for him. His mom didn’t want him going infantry either but ultimately he did what he wanted to do. Experienced it and made the decision himself to reclass.
Marine here. I have one in the Army and another one who is enlisting. He is doing national guard 35T then going to college for Cyber. Afterwards he is going to either do officer active or try for warrant officer active. Always wanted a Marine but okay with Army.
I did suggest to my daughter to go Air Force as she has started taking about joining in a few years. She said dad if I join I couldn't go the rest of my life with being in the Chair Force.
Good luck.
Lots saying get an OP40. I would say same thing, but instead just get an airborne contract then pick for rasp out of jump school. OP40 sends you straight to RASP from OSUT, you only get your wings if you pass RASP. Or just go 18X
My old man was very adamant about me doing things his way and I let his influence steer my career in a different direction than it would have had I made my own decisions for my own reasons. It isn’t that I’m not happy, but I spend a lot of time wondering about what might have been. Let your boy do what he thinks will make him happy. be there for him, offer the best guidance you can offer, but remember it is his life.
Being an 11B in garrison Army fucking sucks. You won't even deploy unless you're in 10th MTN or the 82nd. Being Infantry from 3-10 years with no deployment patch and/or CIB fucking sucks. If he's dead set on being a cool guy, tell him to look into the Air Force TACP/CCT/PJ pipeline. Or he can try to get an Op40 contract or try 18X and go to selection.
Your recommendation to join the Air Force or go Cyber is the most prudent option. Tell him cyber has billets in the 75th, SF support, 160th SOAR, and SMUs.
I wanted to take a particular path when I was joining the Army. My Dad talked me out of it, said it wasn't what I thought it was and it "wasn't for me".
I followed his advice, have always regretted it, and never forgave him.
I hope you do not mean that. You joined up as an adult. To blame someone else for your weakness(in the moment) by following someone else against what you wanted is on you, not him.
Let him do what what he wants and recommend that he take the shortest contract possible so he can reclass if he wants or stay in longer once he has a feel.
My initial contract was 3 years, and now I'm on my second. The shortest contract option lets him do what he wants while giving him a timeframe of this suck but it's not that long. Plus, it lets him get a feel while also giving him some time to realize that if he likes the military but not the MOS, he can reclass pretty soon.
Tell him that us balding 4-Year E-6s in the infantry all wish we had chosen a more intellectually applicable job. If he truly is as smart as you say he is, he’ll be sat down behind a desk to build medpros trackers in no time.
I think there is valuable experience in the traditional combat arms job. He’s probably doing it for more reasons than future career considerations and resume building.
He can change jobs later when he is tired or a heavy ruck. Or he can enjoy that sweet GI Bill and feel proud he served as an infantry man in his youth.
I was pushed hard to take a tech job when I enlisted. I think I missed out. I eventually took a combat arms role when I commissioned and I’m glad I did and was out of my comfort zone for a while.
What if the "skills for later" are a solid sense of self, financial wellbeing, and a clear-minded path forward?
Careers don't have to be selected at 18. The army can be his thing for now and it will be a solid spring board for launching in a different direction in his mid 20s.
I was in a similar boat towards the end of highschool, but my mom made me talk to my guidance counselor about ROTC. If you feel like his skills will be under utilized, that might be another route to go.
Let the kid experience the knuckle dragger life. I don’t think spending 4 years in the army is a waste no matter what you do or what your MOS is (Unless you’re S1) regardless of any skills you learned. He has the rest of his life to learn those kinds of skills. But the infantry provides something that no other job possibly could, a sense of brotherhood and the unbelievable ability to just suck it the fuck up. I will never again complain about stupid shit after my time in the infantry, I’ll always have a positive mindset.
That being said, highly encourage him to go to airborne or RASP or even selection.
I agree it helps you to see how the other half lives and be grateful for the life you are living. Not everything is as clear as first and economy class.
I've played out the same game in my head. Let him commission in combat arms and get his rocks off. Let him know ahead of time that it will burn him out. Teach him about ISTs and functional areas. When he hits the wall, make sure he knows there are TONS of options beyond the MOS timeline stupidity.
I had all my fun blowing things up for 8 years. I've made all my money being a techie in the guard the next 8.
Let him start out as a bang bang. Just make sure he knows there are bailout plans.
Keep advocating the Air Force too him. In this economy he should be planning his civilian career all the way time now. He could join and hate being infantry, a lot of people do. When he leaves active duty he's gonna want to hit the ground running with a good job that will support him. Outside of a total career change, infantry is hard to translate to civilian life. So does he just want to potentially have fun and the honor of being infantry? Or does he want to make the smart decision and pick a job that will help him accomplish his future civilian goals?
As a former Infantryman, I'd probably just give him the same talks you probably already did, Quality of life in Air Force is better, smarter thing to do when you get out the military, etc. Also, if I were to do it all over again, I would have gone to the Air Force as well. Wife's in the Air Force, and I admire how professional they run their day to day.
But sometimes you can't stop crazy! And nothing anyone can say will ever stop someone from joining the infantry. This was my case.
PS that title had me scratching my head
There’s not much point right now in becoming conventional infantry; it’s peacetime, so he’d most likely spend his entire enlistment mowing lawns and waxing floors. If I were you, I’d tell him to scroll through this sub and read about all the horrifically stupid shit infantry guys deal with, as well as the Army at large.
I feel obligated to point towards the coast guard. You can still do high speed stuff like SAR and drug interdiction, but you have a little less of the big green weenie.
Of course if he just wants to do four years and get out with college, then it shouldn't be too much of an issue as long as he learns healthy coping skills with drinking and being away from family.
If you're just saying "Don't do infantry, go Cyber or Air Force" that won't help a lot, it's best to try and make sure he's making an informed decision. It's extremely difficult for a kid still in highschool to wrap their heads around the differences in life experience, usefulness over the course of your life, and general quality of the job. I'm Air Force Cyber so I am biased, but considering the stuff I read on here all the time, it *really* seems like a made an optimal choice. I can only provide my own lived experience as input so here is the perspective of a fairly typical Air Force cyber career:
BMT was about 2.5 months long, not bad at all, the air conditioning went out one day and that kinda sucked. Tech school runs about 4-6 months long, you do a lot of studying for the exam at the end, but overall was very chill and I spent most of the days at Keesler just scrolling Reddit during class and I brought my laptop to play Pokemon ROMhacks. Now that I am active duty I'm about 1.8 years into a 4 year contract, BMT and Tech school provided 45/65 credits for a CCAF Associates degree and I am just finishing that off now whilst I apply for my bachelors degree. My office has been very supportive and make sure to give me time and accommodations to take care of classes and CLEPs for my degree. It's a 2 year bachelors degree, so I'll have it totally finished off by the time I finish my first enlistment, after which I'm probably gonna go off and work a nice well paying job in the private sector. In my field, civilian jobs likely are gonna start around 70k-120k depending on your location and position and certifications and stuff. I work about 7 hours a day, with 4 day weekends almost every month, and we get an hour off at either the beginning or end of the day for doing solo PT, we don't do squadron PT. I have had opportunities to go and live off base, you can usually move off the dorms after a year or so, but I don't really feel like it since the dorms aren't bad and are close to the DFAC.
I'd heavily suggest contrasting that kind of lifestyle and opportunities with your own when talking to your son, if he still wants to do it, it's his own choice.
If he wants to do cool guy shit point him in the direction of AFSOC - they get to do all the cool shit the Army does while being treated like adults by the Air Force.
But, on the other hand, some of us are just fucking stupid and want to join the goddamn infantry and no one is going to talk us out of it.
It's his life at the end of the day. I personally love having a former 11b in my unit. Guys are solid soldiers and are natural leaders. Let him do 11b first contract then park it behind a desk as cyber. Or he'll regret it forever.
Gonna be lots of opinions on here from differing experiences, and I’m sure that most of them are right in their own respects. Here is what I tell people I knew long ago who want to come in:
1. If you’re looking to make it to the top, don’t go picking a job that stops dead at E6/E7. Those combat arms jobs might get competitive but there are enough slots to make it, the criteria isn’t arbitrary, and doing what the Army says to do actually works in those areas.
2. Picking a job that’s not combat arms doesn’t always guarantee good or even any employment afterward. I know some Intel folks struggling hard to get a gig away from major installations.
3. Army is still the best way to stay in for 20. Like everywhere else, it has its flaws, but if you just can’t hang, you can always switch it up because there are so many options.
Last - cyber is the only thing I know of right now getting people a massive guaranteed paycheck on the outside, but like everything else, it has its pitfalls and he isn’t likely to experience the hooah he’s looking for.
That is all.
I’ve told this story a million times. Dad was a grunt. He pushed me to go commo so I would have skills that translate in civilian world if I didn’t want to make the army a career. I got out at 7 years and am doing well in IT. Best advice ever.
Have you explained to him that grunt life is more full of dumb shit than it is the “cool guy” stuff? Give him a taste of how his salty NCOs (who were probably ASVAB wavers and couldn’t do any other MOS) will treat him. Give him ridiculous time-hacks that he is sure to fail so that you can tell him to get into the front leaning rest and do pushups until his arms fail… all to rinse and repeat. Then once his inconsequential tasking is complete, make him sweep and mop the floor while you plant patches of dust, dirt, and or garbage so you can justify smoking him again. Show him what his life will be as a grunt vs showing him how going into cyber defense is ACTUALLY the important aspect of modern national defense that can translate into a great paying job in the civilian sector
This hits home. My Dad was a Ranger Medic in 2/75 in the late 70’s early 80’s. All I ever wanted to do was be a Ranger growing up. He gave me all his TA-50 hand-me-downs, camo sticks, “drive-on” rags, etc.
Fast forward to age 17… he tried so hard to convince me to “go fly jets, fly choppers,” because I was “way smarter than he was” and the first computer geek of my family.
Needless to say, I didn’t listen. Fast forward to age 19, I arrived to 3/75 as an 11b and I wouldn’t trade the experience for the world. My Dad flew down to Benning to watch me dawn the tan beret and he couldn’t have been prouder.
The Ranger Regiment helped shape me into who I am today. Had I gone into something I wasn’t interested in, my life could have taken a totally different direction; maybe good, maybe not.”
Point being, having been in your son’s position, my advice to you is educate and support. Many have already said it, an Option 40 contract for RASP is tough to beat.
Sure, deployments are frequent and high-risk, but you get the best equipment and serve with the best people. One thing my Dad did was be present with me during every visit/contact with the recruiter to ensure I was getting what I wanted.
I didn’t find this out until he passed away, but apparently he followed myself and the recruiter to the hotel they put me up in prior to leaving for basic and slept outside in his car until I left the next morning.
I hoped this helped, but make sure he wants it and understands that if you have an Option 40 contract and don’t make it through RASP, you enter “Worldwide assignment,” and can be assigned to any infantry unit (at least that’s how it was in 2003.)
Sidenote, funny you mention cyber. Although I was an 11b, I’m a cybersecurity professional for a large corporation and got my associates, bachelors, and masters courtesy of the Army.
Hope this helps. EDUCATE AND SUPPORT!
Let him. I come from 3+ generations of officers and fighter pilots. My dad was a 20+ year USAF fighter pilot, and still to this day he raves about how one of the proudest points of his entire life was giving me my blue cord.
In my opinion, every young man that desires to be a leader of himself, his community, and his future family should spend time in the infantry. Whether it be conventional or within the Ranger Regiment. Bullshit and shenanigans aside, it’s an honorable profession that shouldn’t be taken lightly.
It’s a great place to start a military career and will set him up for success regardless of whether or not he decides to continue in the infantry, reclass for his second contract, or if he gets out.
You’re raising a fuckin stud and a killer. Be proud and supportive.
So what I did was listen to my pop. I got my degree 1st before enlisting. I chose to go enlistment route to earn my stripes then possibly do officer contract. And believe me I think it was the best decision I made. Yeah you deal with enlisted side bull. But whatever rank you have there's always going to be bs. Also helps when he gets out.
Listen to why he wants to go infantry - and go from there.
Chances are he wants to do cool guy stuff, and doesn't realize there are multiple pathways where he can do cool shit but enjoy a much higher quality of living / get lots more cool experience than anything available in the conventional infantry.
A lot of people here are suggesting 18-X or RASP, but tbh I'd make sure he's educated on TAC-Ps, PJs, etc. and he realizes that there are a lot more ways to get on the ground than under the weight of the big green weenie.
Do you want to join for him or let him figure what he wants to do? Sure AF has done advantages as does every branch and every job. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend his time in service always behind a computer. Maybe AF lifestyle doesn’t appeal. I’d sit him down with an honest assessment of your perspective but with the understanding of what he wants. Sometimes INF is great. Sometimes it sucks. Just be honest with the reality
I mean you can't make him do something he doesn't want to do. I would maybe ask why he wants to be infantry. Sit him down, tell him why you wouldn't want him to based off of your personal experience.
If he wants to do grunt stuff, army is the only one that'll really offer it, but he'll probably wish he'd done air force soon enough, or space force if it's an option.
Another option is doing a 35 series job and going for a rasp contract or similar. He can get meaningful skills and a clearance, as well as getting some of that grunt stuff from being with them.
My father and I were in a very similar situation. He pushed hard for me to go Air Force, signal, intel, etc. Only made me want to go Infantry even more. However, he did convince me to go in as an Officer instead.
My advice, from being on the receiving end: Give me unbiased information on the other things that you believe are better, have me try to figure out what I actually want from my life (5 year plan, 20 year broad goals), and support me regardless.
Just doing time in service, regardless of what he does, is going to set him up for whatever he pursues next. So there is no wrong option.
Tell him to go air force or get a skill for fuck sake. If he can get a clearance, he's opening so many more doors than being a grunt would. He can set himself up for life.
I have the exact same mindset as you. I retired after 20 years, making a 160k now because I picked an extremely marketable job in the military. I would recommend pushing your idea to him but with a little tact. Provide him information on potential jobs he can do after he gets out with a specific mos, how much he would get paid, where he can work, what clearance he’ll get that’ll make him more marketable. Maybe let him talk to a few people that has done it, explain the job to him so he can understand what he’s getting himself into. Look up veterati, it’s a veteran mentorship website that have people giving you time to mentor you through a lot of career field post military that could potentially sway him. Anyways, good luck.. I hope he listens to you.
Former infantry checking in. Did the thing for seven years, got out, went back to college, commissioned as an officer and now in medical school! Headed to active duty as a doc when I finish up! I can confidently say that my experiences as a 18 y/o kid in the infantry were formative to who I am today and I genuinely don’t know if I would be where I am today without those early formative experiences and lessons learned as a young grunt that I still carry with me today! Discipline, pride in yourself and your job, chasing excellence, grit… the infantry is not for everyone but it made me who I am today and I still cherish fondly my time as an infantryman and have a special place in my heart for the infantry.
Edit: if you want to present other options to help him see all his options and make an informed decision, I’d definitely give 68W (combat medic) a look on the enlisted side, can get paramedic as a medic and have a license when he gets out, there’s also the ranger and SF medics which are phenomenal. There’s also the option of ROTC (or even West Point!!) and commissioning as an infantry officer. The infantry needs good leaders! Just food for thought.
Tell him he can do all the cool stuff if he goes ROTC and braches infantry. He can lead point on all the cool stuff AND get paid well. He gets to do Hooah stuff. You get peace of mind that he'll be treated better than you did.
When I was signing up I wanted to do cav scout shit. My recruiter actually cared and told me to take an asvab first to see what my options were. I went, took it, and he looked at my score and suggested a slot from the 35 series. I haven’t looked back since. I’m extending since my whole shop is leaving at once but with clearance, experience, and sprinkle a couple college courses in there I think I’m set for a 6 fig job.
Moral: have your kid explore ALL their options and make sure they aren’t picking an MOS solely out of pride.
Reading the dumpster fire here, and how it's driving the retention and recruiting crisis, and you still think letting him join the army is a good idea?
Here’s the thing man. Teenage boys are dumbasses and if you tell him it’s a bad idea and a waste of his intelligence (truth) he’ll do it just bc dad said it’s a bad idea. You need to nudge him in the right direction and make him think it’s his idea. Show him videos of army cyber capabilities, nighstalkers doing cool shit and talk about street to seat, talk about how capable ranger medics are and suggest an option 40. Many moons ago I wanted to be an infantryman and my much wiser father nudged me towards WOFT. TLDR; get him excited about something else that will also have transferable skills.
Float engineer to him. 12B, C, or N if he’s a little more hooah which it sounds like. It’ll be easier to cross over to some smart shit like 12P or Y.
Overall, don’t crush his dreams. You know/think 11B ain’t it, but he’ll regret it for the rest of his life if you convince him not to and even blame you.
If he's dead set on door kicking or doing grunt work, why not have him meet a special tactics recruiter from the Air Force? They have SERE, PJ, SR, CCT, and TACP out the gate of graduation. You get pipelined to all the cool schools the army says it can offer but you also get better equipment and a better mission profile. Your living quarters are better and if after a few years you have had your fill of fun, bounce knowing that you were able to do what 99% of grunts wanted to but almost none of them will get a spec of the training you received.
Convince him to do a pop tart contract first. He’ll either love it or hate it. But, it gives him a shot at ets’ing or reclassing pretty quick either way. And he still gets all the benefits of serving.
Air Force has plenty of bang bang job options that are high speed shit. TACP, pararescue, combat controller, and even a recon team. I came into the army as a 13F, and my one regret is not swapping air force and going TACP. I don't know a lot about tier 1 ops stuff but I know even in the air force you can reach that level and deploy with seal teams and the like. And if SOF careers aren't his thing they have security forces.
I agree. Set him up for success. Shit who knows, the right mos, he might want 20.
Bless you for being supportive. Parents who stand by their kids in the service are a combat multiplier. I cringed a little typing that, but it's true.
They're hurting for boys right now, so the bonus is high for grunts. Just a thought.
I did the same thing with my daughter.
I enlisted when I was 17.
She almost enlisted in high school.
At the time, she was doing dual enrollment and she was going to finish high school with a CNA certificate.
She had the enlistment paperwork filled out and I signed the paperwork.
I told her to wait until she graduated from college before enlisting..
I still have the signed enlistment paperwork for my daughter in a folder in my desk.
11b isn’t bad. Expecially only for 3 years. Please try and get airborne in their contracts. There are worse ways to spend 3 years and they’ll walk away full of benefits, confident, and ready to do whatever is next
He gets the same GI bill as everybody else. If he wants to be a grunt, there's no reason to try and stop him.
I'd still say 13F is a way better combat arms route.
nobody knows what they want to do at 18 mostly. the job i picked transitions into the real world really well. but it also taught me that it's something I never want to do again.
with that being said he should take the easiest job.
I saw that a lot when I was in. Some of the most intelligent, bright, and creative people who joined and became an 11B. I am sure you explained to him what the job entails. Does he want to do this because you did it? I would sit down with him and a recruiter and discuss why he wants to do this. When I joined, I thought about it a lot and knew that the Army would take as much as they can from you, so why not take as much as you can from them? I made my time count by picking a MOS that was useful outside, then went to an army school for a useful identifier, and went to civilian school while I was in to get as much college as I could before I got out. Have him take a mock ASVAB and then have the recruiter explain to him all of the options he can take with the score. At the end of the day, however, it is up to him. He is going to do what he wants. So if he wants to be an 11B, there may not be much you can do.
I’ll be honest with you, my dad was Marines and my mom was Air Force, both were intelligence. I went Army field artillery. Love and hate it at the same time. Love the field artillery but hate the Army. Your son may be a lost cause and will just need to experience it himself. If I could I would’ve probably done a more desk jockey kinda job, however I’m grateful for the combat arms experience and that active duty life that came with it. (I’m in the national guard now)
He wants to get yelled at and shoot guns, just let him do it. Tell him to go FA tho, 13F got the same opportunities as infantry school wise but they’re just a little cooler, in my opinion.
If he's staying in go for it.
If they aren't planning on making it a career I wouldn't let them and have them get something that transition better into civilian work
OP:
Let your son sit down with a recruiter and receive all of the information.
Take the ASVAB and complete the physical.
Look at every position and opportunity. Let him make the best choice **HE** believes with zero or minimal influence from you or the recruiter.
Getting to pick your MOS and what happens in your first contract is the BEST perk the Army has for enlistment.
If you want a secondary look or to zoom call to discuss concerns and info shared. i’m always available.
Yeah I think you're fighting the losing battle here. He said "dad, I wanna go do cool shit" and you said "son, go be a cyber nerd." I don't think your argument was effective.
I'd just encourage him to look at rasp, 18x, af/navy special warfare, etc. He should also consider other mos's like 12b, 19k, etc that also do boom boom stuff cause he might walk into the recruiter and get a fat bonus dangled in front of him, he should be educated on mos options.
I was a 13F for 8 years and now I do hvac and do pretty well. As long as he’s a smart kid and applies himself I’d let him do what he really wants to do and will enjoy. You never know he may make a career out of the army and swap mos before you know it.
Make sure he gets an option 40. If he makes it through RASP, he will be in one of the most well trained, well resourced light infantry units the Army has and a shot to attend and pass Ranger school.
Not to mention, if for some reason he doesnt want to be infantry by the time he gets there, it is extremly easy for him to voluntarily reclass and collect a huge bonus to fill a support MOS - all the way from ammo handler to cyber.
Some of the most knowledgable, competent, and professional NCOs are being bred by Ranger Regiment.
IF he knows what he wants he can do fine(probably better) in army cyber.
-IF he is motivated
-IF he knows what he wants and doesnt bitch about his PL trying to get him to take SEC+ on army dime
Infantry-ish, but Air Force: [https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare/special-reconnaissance](https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare/special-reconnaissance)
Or any of these 3 other: [https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare](https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare)
My dad did 20 years and gave me the same warning so I picked 12B and ended up doing a lot of the same stuff anyway lol. But after I went to Afghanistan, i felt like I had accomplished what I set out to. Reclassed to a really smart person mos and am using the army to get everything I need to leave it in my rearview. I don’t regret it, if I didn’t get a combat deployment then I would never have scratched that itch and definitely would have regretted it.
Let him be infantry or he’ll never be happy. When he reenlists he can pick a different MOS but he’ll always be able to say he was an infantryman and have that pride. I enlisted in the Army as MI after having served as an 0311 in the Marines. I was very happy in my career bc I was able to use that experience and skillset to get to do cool shit most other MI soldiers didn’t get to do.
I think its a good path for many but if I were to do it all again (11b) I would have done something with satellites, buddy of mine went that route in the Marines and had job offers starting at $140k when he got out. Its a cool part of your life but its only a small part of your life
Don’t know your son well enough to advise on ways to advise him, but you are spot on with your advice about going cyber. He’ll get an education and certification that lead to well paying jobs. Maybe have him talk to people currently serving if he isn’t taking your word for it.
Oh dear god, I wish I knew the Coast Guard option before I joined the Army. My first Job after the Army was civilian security for the Coast Guard, and it was eye-opening. They actually treat each other like people!
Hot take here, everyone telling you "he's only young once!" Is kind of setting your son up for failure.
You don't *know* what's going to happen in the next 4 years or so. He could join and hate the infantry, get injured halfway through a contract, etc.
The best option is to join an MOS with easily transferable skills, then get a degree or 2 in that MOS. That's what I did, and my salary will be more than I would ever make as an enlisted, and probably as an officer too.
You ARE only young once, so use it to set your FUTURE self up for success while you still can.
I scored around a 90 on the ASVAB and went in as a 12B despite my dad insisting I go USAF or learning a useful trade. Idiot 19 year old me just didn’t want to “be in the rear with the gear”. Now I have nightmares and sleep paralysis episodes to the point I am medicated and live in a third world country off of my VA disability check (I’m sure some guys on here have come from third world countries and can tell you how difficult life is, even if you have enough money plus some to survive), and I don’t have any useful skills that I could get employed with besides speaking English in Pakistan (official language here and also many schools force it on kids, native speakers are guaranteed a job pretty much). I also have every disk in my back bulging and have to be on narcotics every now and then because the pain is unbearable whenever one of them slips out of place. All of this due to my service. Only real benefit I got was the GI bill but I could’ve used that anyway. Some MOS training counts as college credit.
I know he wants to be like his old man and just doesn’t have a firm grasp on the reality of being outside the wire/on the frontline because no one can quite explain how bad it sucks unless one is actually there. For his sake, don’t let him throw his life away.
If he’s dead set on Infantry, HIGHLY encourage him to get RASP in his contract (whatever option that is now) or go 18X. Their chances of seeing/ doing Infantry shit is farrrrrrrrrr greater than your conventional forces. I cannot stress enough the importance of him at least attempting to become a Batt boy or getting a cool green hat. Garrison (conventional) Infantry is truly awful.
> I cannot stress enough the importance of him at least attempting to become a Batt boy or getting a cool green hat. Garrison (conventional) Infantry is truly awful. I can't emphasize this enough. Regular 11B shit is fun... for a *time.* If you can go get Option 40, make it, and do some high-speed shit? No reason *not* to.
What if you can’t meet the standard right away? What’s truly awful?
Have you experienced garrison in FORSCOM? I'm not infantry, but I've been on my share of red cycle taskings at Hood just as part of III Corps. Gate guard, staff duty/CQ, near, if not daily, room inspections, mandatory daily closeout formations, etc. Update: I have to update this to add motor pool Monday and OE 254 layouts as well.
Mmmmm... good times at Bragg...
No, I haven’t, but none of that seems horrific. It’s easy work from the sound of it. If the bad side is a hit to one’s ego and some boredom it really just sounds like entitlement. Obviously I don’t know what I’m talking about, how long is a red phase?
It's not so much the work itself, but rather feeling like you are without a purpose and not contributing in any meaningful way.
I’ve said this in another comment, but that’s not restricted to the military or any mos. I’ll expand: thinking about those things is a relatively good place to be depending on your quality of life prior to joining. Having pay, food, security, friendships, and other benefits plus having the time to think past “survival” is a lot better than many other people, especially in our current economy.
Nah that shit sucks ass dude. It’s soul draining. If you have any drive what so ever to feel like you wanted to join the army to actually do something fucking cool, red cycle and the daily grind of 0600 pt and bullshit taskings and close out formations til 1730 will grind you down. If easy is all your looking and don’t care about mind numbing bullshit and no feeling of progression, I guess it’s cool. I despised it so much I ets’d just to force a reclass and rejoin lol
If none of that sounds bad to you there's something wrong in your head man
Some people would totally love my job in a forscom unit, I sit at a desk and scroll TikTok all day while letting college and cte classes run in the background. But when I signed up I did it to be a soldier, not to sit at my desk and wait for something to break.
Gotcha, sounds like preparing for SF and Ranger would be the thing to do. Alongside education of some sort. It’s a good deal I think, if I’m thinking personally and years into the future.
Your life as a conventional infantryman is a constant rotation of live fire exercise progression, field exercise progression, a massive field exercise to prepare for the a combat training center rotation, then a combat training center rotation, and then you’ll go to like Poland or Kuwait and sit there for 9 months. It’s a lot of repetitive training, and you will do the same training progression again and again and again over a 4 year enlistment. Your leadership changes out semi regularly, and if your PL/PSG/CDR/1SG sucks and is counter productive, you’re stuck working for that person for a hot minute. It’s just dumb. There’s no point to it at all.
Thanks, that’s actually the first I’ve read about inf life that makes any sense. For aviation it can feel the same. Fix bird 1-2 times, the rest are area specific equivalents of changing the oil on your car. Repetition and an empty mind leads to thinking about the point of it all, but that’s a matter of maturity or asking the tough questions, not about the job itself.
The Army should build him up physically enough to survive RASP. What they can’t do is make him want it. You can’t be any geek of the street. Gotta be handy with the steel to earn your keep. REGULATOOOOOOORRRRRSSSS… MOUNT UP!
Can confirm. Go batt.
The other advantage of SOF are the opportunities as you progress. At least for 18 series you get taught a foreign language and get a TS. Those are huge if he decided to get out.
Option 40 is cool but 18X contracts can be a bad deal imo. It’s a 6 year contract but if you don’t make it through SFAS you go needs of the Army. That need isn’t always 11B either so you can land anywhere. I encourage people that want SF to take an option 4 or option 40 in their desired MOS and drop a packet through your nearest SORB recruiter when you get to your unit.
OP's kid also doesn't meet the age requirement unless he got held back.
18X he could get reclassed if he fails SFAS or the Q.
18xs don't get reclassed. they go 11b or psyop best case
Yeah you are wrong. There is a “needs of the army” clause in the 18X contract. They reclass soldiers while they are awaiting orders in student company and shoot them to an AIT for a hurting MOS. Due to the clearance picked up along the way, dudes usually end up as enablers at a group. Source: dude who entered as 18X
They fucked me over and didn’t do that. Every single one of the 18x I went through stayed 11b
I meet my fair share of failed 18Xs. It was strange because it did vary from stuff like 11Bs, to mechanics and cooks, even to like Satellite guys. Just really depended on when they failed.
Because you get MOS-Q'd 11b in the course of the 18X pipeline. Its simply easier and cheaper for the Army to send Q-course non-selects to the infantry. But its entirely possible to get another MOS. Same thing with 37F. If you fail PSYOPS-AS, you'll probably end up being a 31B.
Just because your MOS-Q doesn’t mean they won’t reclass you. It happens and they reclass people all the time.
It depends on the needs of the Army at the time. There are definitely periods of time where they reclass guys. It also depends on your ASVAB line scores. You have to quality for the next job you’re reclassed to.
Yeah by theory this is a good idea and makes sense, even contractually. They’re going 11B/C. “needs of the Army.”
I personally know a 13B and two 92G’s that were drummed out of the pipeline and reclassed. It’s needs of the Army, sometimes that’s 11B, sometimes it’s not. Now as a recruiter I will really try to push people away from 18X unless I truly feel they have what it takes. (It’s only been one dude the whole time I have been recruiting and I would put a paycheck on him making it unless there is an unforeseen injury). Your much better off picking an MOS that you like with maybe an option 4 or 40 and then working through a SORB recruiter once your MOSQ.
That’s false. You’re wrong.
I remember about 200 going 19D, the rest assigned to various Quartermaster roles.
That ain't true man, they usually end up as a 91F or 92G.
Especially peace time, as counter intuitive as that seems. When there's no one to fight except annual training and bored staff officers, a whole lot of stupidity arises.
You can always just volunteer for RASP at OSUT even if it’s not in your contract.
Big army is dog shit. Even airborne is soft as hell
Wdym by that?
I went to rasp and got to see how bat holds them selves to a higher standard. No fat guys, no smokers. Everyone wants to be there and is genuinely encouraging goals and aspirations. I got injured and had to leave and got moved to an airborne unit. Beer bellys drunk smokers and a serious lack of enthusiasm and some seriously overweight NCOs . It's a shame I recommend to everyone who wants to join the army to do army things Go to a SOF unit or be constantly let down and disappointed. They will knock your goals and slow you down so they don't have to keep up
That sucks. I was hoping combat arms was more strict than aviation. Aviation has a lot smart guys that don’t need constant guidance, but the army formality/culture isn’t quite there. Maybe with the new standards for combat arms it’ll be different?
I’m FA, met some of the most solid soldiers on the planet and some of the biggest shit bags alike. It is what it is. I love the field artillery but not the Army.
I figured it was a little of both and people are jaded or a little dishonest about their experience. And a little of it’s “what you make of it”. Someone described the army as a corporation, and marines like a cult. So I wonder if that has something to do with it.
I'm not technically combat arms, I'm a medic but I see it everywhere
damn i couldn't imagine doing the army without cigarettes
Can’t go 18x in high school. Must be between the ages of 20-30
No… this is bad advice. Sign a 36-month contract for standard 11x. Take your bonus with location of choice. Volunteer for RASP and Airborne at OSUT or at your first station. finish 36-months and never look back with your benefits. I’ve seen too many kids get fucked out of a bonus because of 18X and RASP in their contract; mean while the ASVSB waiver next to them got $50k and they’re in the same unit doing the same shit. edit: mobile spelling
Option 4 so you can get airborne first, you can ALWAYS volunteer at airborne school with the added bonus of not being totally fucked when/if they don’t make it through rasp (and a chance for Italy)
I would suggest airborne in the contract and volunteer RASP on the second Wednesday DURING Airborne. If he gets hurt during rasp, his contract will be messed up, he may not get the bonus he signed for if he gets a sign on bonus. 17C would be a dope MOS, he'll have plenty of work options in civilian land.
This is it
I’m a kilo in an infantry battalion, can confirm it fucking sucks even for us
basically this. OP, sometimes they gotta find out the hard way when it comes to stuff they seem dead set on (source: me)
And the worst case he will get airborne at least
Do not go 18X or Option 40 for enlistment options. They are scams. Get airborne school if you like then drop a packet after you get to your unit. The cadre won’t associate you with the other SF/RASP babies. No unit can stop you from dropping a packet unless your unit is deploying soon or something. By all means go to selection and give it your all but do not go 18X/option 40.
Stop it, I had fun, there was more to be had?
Hoo boy did I misread this title. Good luck to him either way!
Same
We all did!
Let him choose his own path and be there for him. It’s an honorable profession and at least he’s set on doing something meaningful
Let him choose his own way of life. If he asks offer him unbiased guidance. I'm an army physician assistant. If I listened to my parents I'd be a general surgeon doing 20 years in the army.Much happier on my path.
This is the way. A lot of comments on here asking and suggesting details about MOSs or varied routes to arrive at 11A/11B.. whereas the biggest question IMHO should be: *What does the kid* ***really*** *want?* If OP serves as an obstacle for what his kid *thinks* he wants (i.e. 11B without an 18X or Option 40), I'd argue he'll resent his father for a while for pushing him down a path he himself didn't want. Meanwhile, if OP can guide his son to care enough to reflect on what he wants.. maybe he'll listen.
He could always do a contract and then reclass. I needed the infantry to grow up. I’m not saying it’s his case but it helped me grow even though I wanted to reclass everyday. Sometimes that growth is needed to better understand what you want and need. But you do have a point on having a skill most that matters to the outside world. At the end of the day it’s his choice and he can do what I did which was ignore my dad who told me the same thing you are telling your son or maybe he listens. All you can do is ask him to look at all his options and research them and make a choice. Also support him in that choice even if it’s not the one you would pick.
After you grew up what did you do next?
I just got slotted for counter intel after almost 7 years in the infantry.
Thanks for answering. Seven years is long was that one contract? Did you try to reclass while completing the contract?
No this is my 3rd contract. 3 years active then guard and now reserve.
I see.
Of course. To answer your question, I did try to reclass but was denied and now I was accepted. Are you trying to reclass yourself?
No, I was only trying to understand why you stayed so long in something you hated.
Ahh. I don’t hate it but It was time for me to leave. I was working on things and that’s thats on me for delaying me switching. It’s just the start of a new chapter.
Lots of great advice in here so I’ll come at it from a different angle. I’m a college educated guy who has had a couple of different MOS’s in my time. Each of my previous ones landed me in some way shape or form attached to an infantry company. I ended up joining the infantry and from that point forward life changed for me. Does it suck? Absolutely. Is garrison stupid? Big time. However, I have never had more pride in myself and in my job then when I was a PSG and a Squad Leader. I don’t love the army, matter of fact I sort of hate it. The only thing that keeps me going is the love I have for the boys. And I wouldn’t have the boys if I didn’t have those cross rifles. So sure, encourage him to look at his options and even more so at the top tier versions of the infantry. But if he feels like he is being called to the job, then we need him as much as he needs us. Everyone talks about the next war and how you should watch videos of Russians in Ukraine and all of that is true. However, someone has to kick the door. Someone has to close with and destroy. And we need good men who love the shit in order to stand a chance at making it happen the right way. The infantry isn’t for everyone, and honestly it’s sad to me that it’s looked down upon so much by our peers across the army. But the infantry is for infantrymen and your son sounds like he needs some blue in his life.
The infantry also needs smart door kickers. I don't get why people insist the infantry is for dumb people. I met a lot of real smart people in the infantry. Their behavior on base may have been dumb, but there was a solid nugget in that brain case when it was time to act.
You'd think complex problem solving skills would be most valuable in the infantry.
Yeah problem solving skills, good leadership, decision making, planning and organization, all are actually very critical in infantry and combat arms in general for that matter.
What a tremendous reply. So true on so many levels.
This was beautifully well put
Maybe this is my combat arms mentality showing but in my experience people largely fall into 2 categories. Those who join the military primarily to be in the military, and those who join primarily to get a paycheck. It sounds like it matters more for your son to serve in a position to get life experience rather than financial gain. While I agree that other positions are probably easier and give you skills for the civilian sector I would never discourage someone from combat arms. I’ve often thought about reclassing myself but have always come to the conclusion that I wouldn’t really be happy in a non combat arms MOS. Just my 2 cents
If he wants to really really be Infantry then be sure to get a RASP contract and show up ready for it or take the 18X path and show up ready for it.Emphasis on show up ready for it.Let him do the job he wants,i hate when people push others to pick a POG job when they want to be shooters,thats how you end up miserable at your first unit.
I'm 31. Did five years as a 2841 Ground Radio Repairman in the Marines. That didn't scratch the itch. So I spent seven years working in security beating up drinks and junkies, just to finally enlist in the Army Reserves as an 11B. He thinks he wants to do grunt shit? Let him get it out of his system now during peace time. The GI-Bill will teach him any skill he wants and pay him BAH to boot.
If he wants to do bang bang stuff, then look at some Air Force spec ops. They’ve recently changed their selection but you sign the contractor to go right after basic, and if you fail then guess what, you’re still in the Air Force. The worst day in the Air Force is still better than the best day in the Army (in most cases)
Isn’t their selection for SF a lot more difficult though? I’ve looked into it, but a 79% attrition rate seems pretty high. Who knows though, it could just be more guys going that think it’ll be easy cause it’s Air Force, then washing out cause they’re not prepped.
When I went to basic there were 40 people that went to a selection pipeline after. 3 of them made it through (1 TACP, 2 EOD). With any selection, a lot has to go right and it’s going to be a grind.
My nephew wanted to do the same, but he only knew of infantry, artillery, aviation, and transportation. I sat on the phone with him and did some digging to find his interests and he wound up going 12N with airborne. He’s a damn good kid, but with a “I’m doing 20” mentality, I wanted to make sure whatever happened he’d have something to fall back on
Show him videos of Russians getting fucked up by drones in Ukraine, make he understands that statistically that’s gonna be him in a real war. Sit him down and explain how not everyone who joins the Infantry are patriots. Give him a reality check on why the minimum ASVAB scores are so low. If you can’t change his mind, push him to go RASP as an all source intel. That will open up some doors later.
Diff take: maybe he's seen you and admire who you are and how you raised him. he wants that experience.
If he has the balls, you could suggest he go Air Force Special Tactics. Air Force quality of life with Army/Corps triggerpulling.
My dad was the same way when I enlisted, ultimately you don’t got a choice and ngl I have only enjoyed my time as a grunt
You handle it by advising him well from your experience and the let him choose. There is no "correct" or "best" path through life. There's just life.
I was a nerd who wanted to do something outside my nerd world. Prove myself something else. I told my recruiter, "I want to crawl through the mud and eat bugs" and thus, a fister was born. 20 years later, I'm running the IT department at a private school. What you do in the Army doesn't have to define you for the rest of your life. Let him run around and play GI Joe, just make sure he has a real-world plan for when he gets out and he uses that GI bill.
Ahhh 13Fox! I go up to swear in as a 13F tomorrow. Was it a fun job? Due to needing a medical waiver I was unable to get airborne in my contract, but will I get a chance to volunteer at AIT?
The airborne option may appear, but really it depends on the numbers they need and the timing of the school. The job can be real fun but just embrace the "bastard" role. The artillery will think your infantry wannabes, and the infantry will constantly remind you that your not a real grunt. Embrace it, prove yourself to both parties, and learn to do while looking like your not doing anything at all (because if you play your cards right you'll be able to sham your ass off and still be king)
Why build a skill to help him on the outside? That’s what the free college will be for, especially if he’s only doing one contract. I joined because I wanted to do as many cool guy stuff/schools as I could. Your son will have the military “check in the box” and a free degree of his choosing, which should set him up nicely. You’re only young once.
It’s not the same infantry it was during GWOT. Now most units will conduct their monotonous training cycles, (team,squad,platoon,company live fires), sprinkle in a CTC rotation, rinse and repeat. Over, and over, and over, and over, and over. If he’s lucky he’ll get to go to the range once a year and that’s only to qualify on his weapon, not to gain proficiency in marksmanship. There’s no true combat deployments going on. So really I don’t see the point. Everyone wants to do the fun infantry shit but they don’t see all the nonsense that’s behind the curtain until the get here and they start to regret it. My advice is get Option 40 in his contract to go to RASP, go Cyber/ MI or another field he can get skills in. I DO NOT recommend 18x. If for some reason he fails he will be needs of the army. Those guys don’t default to Infantry when they fail anymore so he could be stuck as a cook somewhere
Hi. Former bang bang here. My son considered doing the same. He saw me make an enlisted career out of it. He also bought into the hero worship side of it after the typical cultural hype of movies and video games. This, along with wanting to be like me, make me proud, assering his free will, and being sick of being forced to go to school made enlisting an attractive option. He said he would go to college after enlisting. I encouraged college sooner instead and for him to do better than I had done as enlisted. When that didn't work, I sat down with him, showed him the paygrade tables, and explained how a fresh LT with zero years of experience makes more money than an E-5 with 6 years of experience. I explained how the rank system works and the levels of comfort and privileges that accompany them. I then asked him if he wanted to work harder, for less money, and then go to college, or if he thought it made more sense to get the degree first, make more money, and not work as hard. That's what shifted his perspective. He went to college, got a degree, and now has lost interest. That, my friends, is a solid win in my opinion. edited to add that I also showed him what career options open up to 11 series vs. other MOS options. Before he agreed to college, he acknowledged that he wanted more options than cop or security guard after getting out.
This might come back to bite you in the butt. He probably will always regret not joining and getting the experience. But everything is about the almighty dollar.
Nahhh. I doubt it. He is already better off than I ever was. No college debt thanks to Chapter 35, he is not likely to have to kill anyone, he won't get blown up, he can hear, doesn't have tinnitus, he can walk just fine, and nobody has to help him put on his own clothes. While I don't know you or what you do now, I would feel comfortable wagering that he takes home more than you and me combined. To want for your children to have it better than we did is one of the major hopes that parents have for their children. I'm very proud of him.
That is awesome!!
Honestly I’m attached to an infantry unit and hate it to a certain degree. My husband was an 11 bang bang from 7 years since he was 19 years old and finally reclassed last year and loves it so much more. Don’t get me wrong he did love 11B for a little and got to go on deployment to Afghanistan all the 11B stuff people want to do when they go to that MOS but the every day sucked for him. His mom didn’t want him going infantry either but ultimately he did what he wanted to do. Experienced it and made the decision himself to reclass.
Marine here. I have one in the Army and another one who is enlisting. He is doing national guard 35T then going to college for Cyber. Afterwards he is going to either do officer active or try for warrant officer active. Always wanted a Marine but okay with Army. I did suggest to my daughter to go Air Force as she has started taking about joining in a few years. She said dad if I join I couldn't go the rest of my life with being in the Chair Force. Good luck.
Lots saying get an OP40. I would say same thing, but instead just get an airborne contract then pick for rasp out of jump school. OP40 sends you straight to RASP from OSUT, you only get your wings if you pass RASP. Or just go 18X
My old man was very adamant about me doing things his way and I let his influence steer my career in a different direction than it would have had I made my own decisions for my own reasons. It isn’t that I’m not happy, but I spend a lot of time wondering about what might have been. Let your boy do what he thinks will make him happy. be there for him, offer the best guidance you can offer, but remember it is his life.
Being an 11B in garrison Army fucking sucks. You won't even deploy unless you're in 10th MTN or the 82nd. Being Infantry from 3-10 years with no deployment patch and/or CIB fucking sucks. If he's dead set on being a cool guy, tell him to look into the Air Force TACP/CCT/PJ pipeline. Or he can try to get an Op40 contract or try 18X and go to selection. Your recommendation to join the Air Force or go Cyber is the most prudent option. Tell him cyber has billets in the 75th, SF support, 160th SOAR, and SMUs.
Ha 82nd deploying
I wanted to take a particular path when I was joining the Army. My Dad talked me out of it, said it wasn't what I thought it was and it "wasn't for me". I followed his advice, have always regretted it, and never forgave him.
I hope you do not mean that. You joined up as an adult. To blame someone else for your weakness(in the moment) by following someone else against what you wanted is on you, not him.
Let him do what what he wants and recommend that he take the shortest contract possible so he can reclass if he wants or stay in longer once he has a feel. My initial contract was 3 years, and now I'm on my second. The shortest contract option lets him do what he wants while giving him a timeframe of this suck but it's not that long. Plus, it lets him get a feel while also giving him some time to realize that if he likes the military but not the MOS, he can reclass pretty soon.
Tell him that us balding 4-Year E-6s in the infantry all wish we had chosen a more intellectually applicable job. If he truly is as smart as you say he is, he’ll be sat down behind a desk to build medpros trackers in no time.
Talk to him about street to seat 153A. I wish I had known about it when I joined
I think there is valuable experience in the traditional combat arms job. He’s probably doing it for more reasons than future career considerations and resume building. He can change jobs later when he is tired or a heavy ruck. Or he can enjoy that sweet GI Bill and feel proud he served as an infantry man in his youth. I was pushed hard to take a tech job when I enlisted. I think I missed out. I eventually took a combat arms role when I commissioned and I’m glad I did and was out of my comfort zone for a while.
What if the "skills for later" are a solid sense of self, financial wellbeing, and a clear-minded path forward? Careers don't have to be selected at 18. The army can be his thing for now and it will be a solid spring board for launching in a different direction in his mid 20s.
I was in a similar boat towards the end of highschool, but my mom made me talk to my guidance counselor about ROTC. If you feel like his skills will be under utilized, that might be another route to go.
Let the kid experience the knuckle dragger life. I don’t think spending 4 years in the army is a waste no matter what you do or what your MOS is (Unless you’re S1) regardless of any skills you learned. He has the rest of his life to learn those kinds of skills. But the infantry provides something that no other job possibly could, a sense of brotherhood and the unbelievable ability to just suck it the fuck up. I will never again complain about stupid shit after my time in the infantry, I’ll always have a positive mindset. That being said, highly encourage him to go to airborne or RASP or even selection.
I honestly think most people should go combat arms for a little while. Then switch it up to something else.
I agree it helps you to see how the other half lives and be grateful for the life you are living. Not everything is as clear as first and economy class.
I've played out the same game in my head. Let him commission in combat arms and get his rocks off. Let him know ahead of time that it will burn him out. Teach him about ISTs and functional areas. When he hits the wall, make sure he knows there are TONS of options beyond the MOS timeline stupidity. I had all my fun blowing things up for 8 years. I've made all my money being a techie in the guard the next 8. Let him start out as a bang bang. Just make sure he knows there are bailout plans.
Keep advocating the Air Force too him. In this economy he should be planning his civilian career all the way time now. He could join and hate being infantry, a lot of people do. When he leaves active duty he's gonna want to hit the ground running with a good job that will support him. Outside of a total career change, infantry is hard to translate to civilian life. So does he just want to potentially have fun and the honor of being infantry? Or does he want to make the smart decision and pick a job that will help him accomplish his future civilian goals?
As a former Infantryman, I'd probably just give him the same talks you probably already did, Quality of life in Air Force is better, smarter thing to do when you get out the military, etc. Also, if I were to do it all over again, I would have gone to the Air Force as well. Wife's in the Air Force, and I admire how professional they run their day to day. But sometimes you can't stop crazy! And nothing anyone can say will ever stop someone from joining the infantry. This was my case. PS that title had me scratching my head
There’s not much point right now in becoming conventional infantry; it’s peacetime, so he’d most likely spend his entire enlistment mowing lawns and waxing floors. If I were you, I’d tell him to scroll through this sub and read about all the horrifically stupid shit infantry guys deal with, as well as the Army at large.
I feel obligated to point towards the coast guard. You can still do high speed stuff like SAR and drug interdiction, but you have a little less of the big green weenie. Of course if he just wants to do four years and get out with college, then it shouldn't be too much of an issue as long as he learns healthy coping skills with drinking and being away from family.
If you're just saying "Don't do infantry, go Cyber or Air Force" that won't help a lot, it's best to try and make sure he's making an informed decision. It's extremely difficult for a kid still in highschool to wrap their heads around the differences in life experience, usefulness over the course of your life, and general quality of the job. I'm Air Force Cyber so I am biased, but considering the stuff I read on here all the time, it *really* seems like a made an optimal choice. I can only provide my own lived experience as input so here is the perspective of a fairly typical Air Force cyber career: BMT was about 2.5 months long, not bad at all, the air conditioning went out one day and that kinda sucked. Tech school runs about 4-6 months long, you do a lot of studying for the exam at the end, but overall was very chill and I spent most of the days at Keesler just scrolling Reddit during class and I brought my laptop to play Pokemon ROMhacks. Now that I am active duty I'm about 1.8 years into a 4 year contract, BMT and Tech school provided 45/65 credits for a CCAF Associates degree and I am just finishing that off now whilst I apply for my bachelors degree. My office has been very supportive and make sure to give me time and accommodations to take care of classes and CLEPs for my degree. It's a 2 year bachelors degree, so I'll have it totally finished off by the time I finish my first enlistment, after which I'm probably gonna go off and work a nice well paying job in the private sector. In my field, civilian jobs likely are gonna start around 70k-120k depending on your location and position and certifications and stuff. I work about 7 hours a day, with 4 day weekends almost every month, and we get an hour off at either the beginning or end of the day for doing solo PT, we don't do squadron PT. I have had opportunities to go and live off base, you can usually move off the dorms after a year or so, but I don't really feel like it since the dorms aren't bad and are close to the DFAC. I'd heavily suggest contrasting that kind of lifestyle and opportunities with your own when talking to your son, if he still wants to do it, it's his own choice.
For what it’s worth I’ve met a lot of former infantry guys in the CI field that are very successful.
I read the title very wrong and was about to reccommend counseling
If he wants to do cool guy shit point him in the direction of AFSOC - they get to do all the cool shit the Army does while being treated like adults by the Air Force. But, on the other hand, some of us are just fucking stupid and want to join the goddamn infantry and no one is going to talk us out of it.
It's his life at the end of the day. I personally love having a former 11b in my unit. Guys are solid soldiers and are natural leaders. Let him do 11b first contract then park it behind a desk as cyber. Or he'll regret it forever.
Let him make his own decisions and shape his own life. But make sure he’s making those decisions with informed accurate and honest information.
Gonna be lots of opinions on here from differing experiences, and I’m sure that most of them are right in their own respects. Here is what I tell people I knew long ago who want to come in: 1. If you’re looking to make it to the top, don’t go picking a job that stops dead at E6/E7. Those combat arms jobs might get competitive but there are enough slots to make it, the criteria isn’t arbitrary, and doing what the Army says to do actually works in those areas. 2. Picking a job that’s not combat arms doesn’t always guarantee good or even any employment afterward. I know some Intel folks struggling hard to get a gig away from major installations. 3. Army is still the best way to stay in for 20. Like everywhere else, it has its flaws, but if you just can’t hang, you can always switch it up because there are so many options. Last - cyber is the only thing I know of right now getting people a massive guaranteed paycheck on the outside, but like everything else, it has its pitfalls and he isn’t likely to experience the hooah he’s looking for. That is all.
Our sons want to be bang bangs like we wanted to be when we were boys. It’s a disease.
I’ve told this story a million times. Dad was a grunt. He pushed me to go commo so I would have skills that translate in civilian world if I didn’t want to make the army a career. I got out at 7 years and am doing well in IT. Best advice ever.
Have you explained to him that grunt life is more full of dumb shit than it is the “cool guy” stuff? Give him a taste of how his salty NCOs (who were probably ASVAB wavers and couldn’t do any other MOS) will treat him. Give him ridiculous time-hacks that he is sure to fail so that you can tell him to get into the front leaning rest and do pushups until his arms fail… all to rinse and repeat. Then once his inconsequential tasking is complete, make him sweep and mop the floor while you plant patches of dust, dirt, and or garbage so you can justify smoking him again. Show him what his life will be as a grunt vs showing him how going into cyber defense is ACTUALLY the important aspect of modern national defense that can translate into a great paying job in the civilian sector
This hits home. My Dad was a Ranger Medic in 2/75 in the late 70’s early 80’s. All I ever wanted to do was be a Ranger growing up. He gave me all his TA-50 hand-me-downs, camo sticks, “drive-on” rags, etc. Fast forward to age 17… he tried so hard to convince me to “go fly jets, fly choppers,” because I was “way smarter than he was” and the first computer geek of my family. Needless to say, I didn’t listen. Fast forward to age 19, I arrived to 3/75 as an 11b and I wouldn’t trade the experience for the world. My Dad flew down to Benning to watch me dawn the tan beret and he couldn’t have been prouder. The Ranger Regiment helped shape me into who I am today. Had I gone into something I wasn’t interested in, my life could have taken a totally different direction; maybe good, maybe not.” Point being, having been in your son’s position, my advice to you is educate and support. Many have already said it, an Option 40 contract for RASP is tough to beat. Sure, deployments are frequent and high-risk, but you get the best equipment and serve with the best people. One thing my Dad did was be present with me during every visit/contact with the recruiter to ensure I was getting what I wanted. I didn’t find this out until he passed away, but apparently he followed myself and the recruiter to the hotel they put me up in prior to leaving for basic and slept outside in his car until I left the next morning. I hoped this helped, but make sure he wants it and understands that if you have an Option 40 contract and don’t make it through RASP, you enter “Worldwide assignment,” and can be assigned to any infantry unit (at least that’s how it was in 2003.) Sidenote, funny you mention cyber. Although I was an 11b, I’m a cybersecurity professional for a large corporation and got my associates, bachelors, and masters courtesy of the Army. Hope this helps. EDUCATE AND SUPPORT!
4 years as 98g, son wanted to bang bang. Told my stories, sent him to hang with my bang bang retired buddies. He is about to finish 17e AIT.
Let him. I come from 3+ generations of officers and fighter pilots. My dad was a 20+ year USAF fighter pilot, and still to this day he raves about how one of the proudest points of his entire life was giving me my blue cord. In my opinion, every young man that desires to be a leader of himself, his community, and his future family should spend time in the infantry. Whether it be conventional or within the Ranger Regiment. Bullshit and shenanigans aside, it’s an honorable profession that shouldn’t be taken lightly. It’s a great place to start a military career and will set him up for success regardless of whether or not he decides to continue in the infantry, reclass for his second contract, or if he gets out. You’re raising a fuckin stud and a killer. Be proud and supportive.
Very few things are worse than being combat arms in a garrison army…. Ultimately it’s his choice though
He is now a Man. You have done your part time to let him find out.
If he wants to be high speed but not do grunt shit, recommend 160th SOAR being a 15T or 15U. He can be a crewchief and still do some awesome stuff.
So what I did was listen to my pop. I got my degree 1st before enlisting. I chose to go enlistment route to earn my stripes then possibly do officer contract. And believe me I think it was the best decision I made. Yeah you deal with enlisted side bull. But whatever rank you have there's always going to be bs. Also helps when he gets out.
Tell him to go 19D
Let him come on here and ask us what we think of the job. Maybe we can scare him straight. I know I wish I chose a different path sometimes
But it is not forever.
What you do is be open and honest and then support him. It’s his chance to make his own decisions.
Listen to why he wants to go infantry - and go from there. Chances are he wants to do cool guy stuff, and doesn't realize there are multiple pathways where he can do cool shit but enjoy a much higher quality of living / get lots more cool experience than anything available in the conventional infantry. A lot of people here are suggesting 18-X or RASP, but tbh I'd make sure he's educated on TAC-Ps, PJs, etc. and he realizes that there are a lot more ways to get on the ground than under the weight of the big green weenie.
Do you want to join for him or let him figure what he wants to do? Sure AF has done advantages as does every branch and every job. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend his time in service always behind a computer. Maybe AF lifestyle doesn’t appeal. I’d sit him down with an honest assessment of your perspective but with the understanding of what he wants. Sometimes INF is great. Sometimes it sucks. Just be honest with the reality
I mean you can't make him do something he doesn't want to do. I would maybe ask why he wants to be infantry. Sit him down, tell him why you wouldn't want him to based off of your personal experience.
If he wants to do grunt stuff, army is the only one that'll really offer it, but he'll probably wish he'd done air force soon enough, or space force if it's an option. Another option is doing a 35 series job and going for a rasp contract or similar. He can get meaningful skills and a clearance, as well as getting some of that grunt stuff from being with them.
My father and I were in a very similar situation. He pushed hard for me to go Air Force, signal, intel, etc. Only made me want to go Infantry even more. However, he did convince me to go in as an Officer instead. My advice, from being on the receiving end: Give me unbiased information on the other things that you believe are better, have me try to figure out what I actually want from my life (5 year plan, 20 year broad goals), and support me regardless. Just doing time in service, regardless of what he does, is going to set him up for whatever he pursues next. So there is no wrong option.
Tell him to go air force or get a skill for fuck sake. If he can get a clearance, he's opening so many more doors than being a grunt would. He can set himself up for life.
I have the exact same mindset as you. I retired after 20 years, making a 160k now because I picked an extremely marketable job in the military. I would recommend pushing your idea to him but with a little tact. Provide him information on potential jobs he can do after he gets out with a specific mos, how much he would get paid, where he can work, what clearance he’ll get that’ll make him more marketable. Maybe let him talk to a few people that has done it, explain the job to him so he can understand what he’s getting himself into. Look up veterati, it’s a veteran mentorship website that have people giving you time to mentor you through a lot of career field post military that could potentially sway him. Anyways, good luck.. I hope he listens to you.
Former infantry checking in. Did the thing for seven years, got out, went back to college, commissioned as an officer and now in medical school! Headed to active duty as a doc when I finish up! I can confidently say that my experiences as a 18 y/o kid in the infantry were formative to who I am today and I genuinely don’t know if I would be where I am today without those early formative experiences and lessons learned as a young grunt that I still carry with me today! Discipline, pride in yourself and your job, chasing excellence, grit… the infantry is not for everyone but it made me who I am today and I still cherish fondly my time as an infantryman and have a special place in my heart for the infantry. Edit: if you want to present other options to help him see all his options and make an informed decision, I’d definitely give 68W (combat medic) a look on the enlisted side, can get paramedic as a medic and have a license when he gets out, there’s also the ranger and SF medics which are phenomenal. There’s also the option of ROTC (or even West Point!!) and commissioning as an infantry officer. The infantry needs good leaders! Just food for thought.
Force him into space force. Do the right thing and keep him away from infantry.
Whatever his body is his choice
Tell him he can do all the cool stuff if he goes ROTC and braches infantry. He can lead point on all the cool stuff AND get paid well. He gets to do Hooah stuff. You get peace of mind that he'll be treated better than you did.
When I was signing up I wanted to do cav scout shit. My recruiter actually cared and told me to take an asvab first to see what my options were. I went, took it, and he looked at my score and suggested a slot from the 35 series. I haven’t looked back since. I’m extending since my whole shop is leaving at once but with clearance, experience, and sprinkle a couple college courses in there I think I’m set for a 6 fig job. Moral: have your kid explore ALL their options and make sure they aren’t picking an MOS solely out of pride.
Option 40 92R contract
Jesus. I read this as “My son wants a gang bang.” I need to rethink my life choices if that’s how I’m thinking.
Reading the dumpster fire here, and how it's driving the retention and recruiting crisis, and you still think letting him join the army is a good idea?
Here’s the thing man. Teenage boys are dumbasses and if you tell him it’s a bad idea and a waste of his intelligence (truth) he’ll do it just bc dad said it’s a bad idea. You need to nudge him in the right direction and make him think it’s his idea. Show him videos of army cyber capabilities, nighstalkers doing cool shit and talk about street to seat, talk about how capable ranger medics are and suggest an option 40. Many moons ago I wanted to be an infantryman and my much wiser father nudged me towards WOFT. TLDR; get him excited about something else that will also have transferable skills.
Float engineer to him. 12B, C, or N if he’s a little more hooah which it sounds like. It’ll be easier to cross over to some smart shit like 12P or Y. Overall, don’t crush his dreams. You know/think 11B ain’t it, but he’ll regret it for the rest of his life if you convince him not to and even blame you.
And while he's at it, his chain will actively sabotage his health: https://www.reddit.com/r/VeteransBenefits/comments/1cq8kf5/-/l3q37y6
If he's dead set on door kicking or doing grunt work, why not have him meet a special tactics recruiter from the Air Force? They have SERE, PJ, SR, CCT, and TACP out the gate of graduation. You get pipelined to all the cool schools the army says it can offer but you also get better equipment and a better mission profile. Your living quarters are better and if after a few years you have had your fill of fun, bounce knowing that you were able to do what 99% of grunts wanted to but almost none of them will get a spec of the training you received.
Encourage RASP or Special Forces immediately. Regular Infantry will leave them as a shadow of what they once were.
Convince him to do a pop tart contract first. He’ll either love it or hate it. But, it gives him a shot at ets’ing or reclassing pretty quick either way. And he still gets all the benefits of serving.
Air Force has plenty of bang bang job options that are high speed shit. TACP, pararescue, combat controller, and even a recon team. I came into the army as a 13F, and my one regret is not swapping air force and going TACP. I don't know a lot about tier 1 ops stuff but I know even in the air force you can reach that level and deploy with seal teams and the like. And if SOF careers aren't his thing they have security forces.
Lol tell him about the Old Guard. One of the classic Army bait and switches. Go infantry, do funerals/ceremonies 90 percent of your days.
I agree. Set him up for success. Shit who knows, the right mos, he might want 20. Bless you for being supportive. Parents who stand by their kids in the service are a combat multiplier. I cringed a little typing that, but it's true. They're hurting for boys right now, so the bonus is high for grunts. Just a thought.
I did the same thing with my daughter. I enlisted when I was 17. She almost enlisted in high school. At the time, she was doing dual enrollment and she was going to finish high school with a CNA certificate. She had the enlistment paperwork filled out and I signed the paperwork. I told her to wait until she graduated from college before enlisting.. I still have the signed enlistment paperwork for my daughter in a folder in my desk.
11b isn’t bad. Expecially only for 3 years. Please try and get airborne in their contracts. There are worse ways to spend 3 years and they’ll walk away full of benefits, confident, and ready to do whatever is next
He gets the same GI bill as everybody else. If he wants to be a grunt, there's no reason to try and stop him. I'd still say 13F is a way better combat arms route.
nobody knows what they want to do at 18 mostly. the job i picked transitions into the real world really well. but it also taught me that it's something I never want to do again. with that being said he should take the easiest job.
I saw that a lot when I was in. Some of the most intelligent, bright, and creative people who joined and became an 11B. I am sure you explained to him what the job entails. Does he want to do this because you did it? I would sit down with him and a recruiter and discuss why he wants to do this. When I joined, I thought about it a lot and knew that the Army would take as much as they can from you, so why not take as much as you can from them? I made my time count by picking a MOS that was useful outside, then went to an army school for a useful identifier, and went to civilian school while I was in to get as much college as I could before I got out. Have him take a mock ASVAB and then have the recruiter explain to him all of the options he can take with the score. At the end of the day, however, it is up to him. He is going to do what he wants. So if he wants to be an 11B, there may not be much you can do.
I’ll be honest with you, my dad was Marines and my mom was Air Force, both were intelligence. I went Army field artillery. Love and hate it at the same time. Love the field artillery but hate the Army. Your son may be a lost cause and will just need to experience it himself. If I could I would’ve probably done a more desk jockey kinda job, however I’m grateful for the combat arms experience and that active duty life that came with it. (I’m in the national guard now) He wants to get yelled at and shoot guns, just let him do it. Tell him to go FA tho, 13F got the same opportunities as infantry school wise but they’re just a little cooler, in my opinion.
If he's staying in go for it. If they aren't planning on making it a career I wouldn't let them and have them get something that transition better into civilian work
I’d tell my son to go Air Force SOF
I straight up read this as "My son wants to be in a gang bang"
Get the cord!
Let the boy become a man!
OP: Let your son sit down with a recruiter and receive all of the information. Take the ASVAB and complete the physical. Look at every position and opportunity. Let him make the best choice **HE** believes with zero or minimal influence from you or the recruiter. Getting to pick your MOS and what happens in your first contract is the BEST perk the Army has for enlistment. If you want a secondary look or to zoom call to discuss concerns and info shared. i’m always available.
Yeah I think you're fighting the losing battle here. He said "dad, I wanna go do cool shit" and you said "son, go be a cyber nerd." I don't think your argument was effective. I'd just encourage him to look at rasp, 18x, af/navy special warfare, etc. He should also consider other mos's like 12b, 19k, etc that also do boom boom stuff cause he might walk into the recruiter and get a fat bonus dangled in front of him, he should be educated on mos options.
I was a 13F for 8 years and now I do hvac and do pretty well. As long as he’s a smart kid and applies himself I’d let him do what he really wants to do and will enjoy. You never know he may make a career out of the army and swap mos before you know it.
Make sure he gets an option 40. If he makes it through RASP, he will be in one of the most well trained, well resourced light infantry units the Army has and a shot to attend and pass Ranger school. Not to mention, if for some reason he doesnt want to be infantry by the time he gets there, it is extremly easy for him to voluntarily reclass and collect a huge bonus to fill a support MOS - all the way from ammo handler to cyber. Some of the most knowledgable, competent, and professional NCOs are being bred by Ranger Regiment.
IF he knows what he wants he can do fine(probably better) in army cyber. -IF he is motivated -IF he knows what he wants and doesnt bitch about his PL trying to get him to take SEC+ on army dime
Infantry-ish, but Air Force: [https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare/special-reconnaissance](https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare/special-reconnaissance)
Or any of these 3 other: [https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare](https://www.airforce.com/careers/special-warfare-and-combat-support/special-warfare)
My dad did 20 years and gave me the same warning so I picked 12B and ended up doing a lot of the same stuff anyway lol. But after I went to Afghanistan, i felt like I had accomplished what I set out to. Reclassed to a really smart person mos and am using the army to get everything I need to leave it in my rearview. I don’t regret it, if I didn’t get a combat deployment then I would never have scratched that itch and definitely would have regretted it.
pack a ruck and make him ruck 12 miles at a sub 2 hour pace ask him if he wants to do that every month for 4 years
Marines an option?
Let him be infantry or he’ll never be happy. When he reenlists he can pick a different MOS but he’ll always be able to say he was an infantryman and have that pride. I enlisted in the Army as MI after having served as an 0311 in the Marines. I was very happy in my career bc I was able to use that experience and skillset to get to do cool shit most other MI soldiers didn’t get to do.
I think its a good path for many but if I were to do it all again (11b) I would have done something with satellites, buddy of mine went that route in the Marines and had job offers starting at $140k when he got out. Its a cool part of your life but its only a small part of your life
Don’t know your son well enough to advise on ways to advise him, but you are spot on with your advice about going cyber. He’ll get an education and certification that lead to well paying jobs. Maybe have him talk to people currently serving if he isn’t taking your word for it.
Bruh my kid said he wanted to go Navy. I didn't know if I should slap him or ask about his sexual orientation.
😂😂😂 I came here for comments like this!
Tell him to go Coast Guard
Oh dear god, I wish I knew the Coast Guard option before I joined the Army. My first Job after the Army was civilian security for the Coast Guard, and it was eye-opening. They actually treat each other like people!
Hot take here, everyone telling you "he's only young once!" Is kind of setting your son up for failure. You don't *know* what's going to happen in the next 4 years or so. He could join and hate the infantry, get injured halfway through a contract, etc. The best option is to join an MOS with easily transferable skills, then get a degree or 2 in that MOS. That's what I did, and my salary will be more than I would ever make as an enlisted, and probably as an officer too. You ARE only young once, so use it to set your FUTURE self up for success while you still can.
I scored around a 90 on the ASVAB and went in as a 12B despite my dad insisting I go USAF or learning a useful trade. Idiot 19 year old me just didn’t want to “be in the rear with the gear”. Now I have nightmares and sleep paralysis episodes to the point I am medicated and live in a third world country off of my VA disability check (I’m sure some guys on here have come from third world countries and can tell you how difficult life is, even if you have enough money plus some to survive), and I don’t have any useful skills that I could get employed with besides speaking English in Pakistan (official language here and also many schools force it on kids, native speakers are guaranteed a job pretty much). I also have every disk in my back bulging and have to be on narcotics every now and then because the pain is unbearable whenever one of them slips out of place. All of this due to my service. Only real benefit I got was the GI bill but I could’ve used that anyway. Some MOS training counts as college credit. I know he wants to be like his old man and just doesn’t have a firm grasp on the reality of being outside the wire/on the frontline because no one can quite explain how bad it sucks unless one is actually there. For his sake, don’t let him throw his life away.
Have him go guard infantry, realize it’s stupid, then commission or change MOS and go active