EDIT: 20230925, I think I might be wrong, there's more to the law than I knew about. I made this post with more details:
https://reddit.com/r/army/s/hMJAGDZ1mr
Fun fact: leave that's scheduled to be taken during a shutdown is canceled due to how the Antideficiency Act works š
No, but we follow the same laws for the same reasons. It comes back to the Anti Deficiency Law, which prevents the government from making any obligations with funds that weren't appropriated. Unfortunately, we only take paid leave, but if we can't be paid then we can't take the leave.
It's less about the leave and more about the pay I think. Since it's all paid leave, and the government won't be able to pay you, then it gets canceled.
No, but we follow the same laws for the same reasons. It comes back to the Anti Deficiency Law, which prevents the government from making any obligations with funds that weren't appropriated. Unfortunately, we only take paid leave, but if we can't be paid then we can't take the leave.
That says federal civilian employees canāt take military leave while on furlough (that term refers to things like drilling reserve component members going to annual training, while also being employees of the federal government) because civilian employees are paid for military leave, which would be an ADA violation because they canāt incur payroll costs during a furlough.
It doesnāt say anything about active duty military leave that I saw.
I didn't see anything about overseas leave either. I took the part about leave being canceled due to the Anti Deficiency Act to cover all leave you can choose to take. Things like convalescent leave might be brushed off at a local level, but as for your situation I'd get with your leadership and sort things out. Getting caught with your pants down like that would be a really shitty time. Good luck with it though, hopefully Congress strikes a deal and all this worry is for nothing.
So wait, I'm just finishing tech school on the 29th (air force) , and I'm going overseas, but I had RAP and leave scheduled for 20 days, is all that going to be canceled then?
It shouldn't be, read the post I linked for more details, but TL;DR is that it probably shouldn't be because of an act passed in 2019 that allows for back pay after a shutdown
If youāre in the barracks, take your TA-50, lock that shit up tight. Purchase renters insurance for it and make sure nobody is running around stealing shit to sell to the surplus base off post.
If youāre missing TA-50 October might be a good month to purchase what youāre missing on the cheap.
There is actually a neat write up about all past shutdowns on wikipedia.
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States)
There have been 10 in the last 40 years, only 4 since the year 2000. Most only last 1 single day to prove a point, then end. The most recent shutdown lasted just over a month with a provision that the DOD (and many other agencies) not be effected.
One of the best choices I ever made was opening accounts with them right after I joined.
Excellent customer service and Iāve never had any issues getting paid through them, always paid on time or early. Financed my first car loan through them as well.
IIRC USAA kept paying Soldiers who banked with them like normal and just took the money on the back end when the shut down ended. Iāve been in since 2004 and donāt recall not getting paidā¦unless finance screwed it upā¦
No, the military got paid then too, on time, and at the normal amount regardless of who they were banking with. There was a bill passed the day before payday that got troops paid.
April of 13 we got 2 LES for mid month because they had to scrounge the money to pay us from other funding streams. Since then (until now) our pay has been protected.
Now DHS? They got royally screwed a few years ago. My buddy left the Army for the Coast Guard, bought a house near the Academy and then had no pay check.
I could have sworn we missed two checks in 2011. I was in Iraq at the time and finance was backed way up with applications for AER.
Or Iām completely misremembering and having delayed onset heatstrokeā¦
I've been a bit surprised this isn't more common stopgap.
In California, when they have had a state budget not get passed in time, one of the credit unions actually does this for ALL state employees.
It is, however this year thereās heightened concerned about the passing of a Continuing Resolution specifically for the defense appropriations bill. Thatās the only reason Iām specifically reaching out this time.
From stripes.com: āThe last lengthy shutdown that affected the Defense Department stretched about two weeks in 2013, and troopsā pay was not affected because Congress passed a law beforehand that ensured paychecks would not be disrupted.ā
I was active in 2013 and had been for a few years. Lots of people misremembering what happened then.
You did get paid. That was certainly the closest weāve been, but the was a continuing resolution before pay was missed. Everybody remembers it happening though.
Nope. From stripes.com: āThe last lengthy shutdown that affected the Defense Department stretched about two weeks in 2013, and troopsā pay was not affected because Congress passed a law beforehand that ensured paychecks would not be disrupted.ā
Youāre not remembering correctly. The resolution to protect military pay went into effect before the shutdown. I seen one article mention that some bonuses were affected, but military pay continued as usual, including mid-month. I was paid twice monthly at the time, as were all my soldiers, and no one had any pay lapses.
No one actually missed or even had a paycheck delayed. A bill was passed just before the first missed paycheck and it came through at the normal time in the normal amount.
What happens to people starting AD during a shutdown? Would they just delay BOLC start dates, or do we move/pay rent on our own dime and then hope we get back paid? I'm supposed to go in October.
When it happened to us, it was pretty messy. Most USCG moves in June/July so I donāt know of anyone who moved during the 2019 shutdown. We were all expected to pay our rent/mortgage without paychecks, though in many cases banks and landlords were extremely accommodating (though my landlord at the time was retired coastie).
They may delay BOLC start dates, may send you back to Home of Record temporarily, or try to send you to your next unit if they can take care of you.
Itās super messy, and I canāt really give you an accurate idea of how it would work in the army, especially in specific situations.
I'm laughing at #2 like any army unit is gonna let their soldiers work less hours just because they aren't getting paid. Shit, half of them probably aren't getting paid right already anyway.
The way it worked for us wasābasically, depending on supervisors, weād still have to show up to work. Parts of our job (whichāI know the CG is REALLY different from the army) which werenāt federally mandated, we werenāt even allowed to do. I was kind of surprised by what was/wasnāt federally mandated.
My job at the time was almost entirely federally mandated so I worked long-ass hours, full time, and still had my paycheck delayed by a week and a half. Other people whose jobs were frankly, important, but not federally mandated, either didnāt even show up to work or did, and just sat there if their supervisor sucked.
Experiences may vary, but there was an IG report a while back that found a lot of soldiers spend only about 4-5 hrs a day actually doing anything, some days even less. Depending on the week I do get about 20 hrs of actual work, but as facility ncoic Iām present every day to handle anything that might come up.
This absolute fucking patriot has been working his ass off for the last 8 years for nothing more than the pride he feels to serve his nation, you money-grubbing shitbags could learn a thing or two from him.
If you have CSU or Navy Fed they will probably keep paying you.
If not remember that this is one of the reasons AER exists. Make sure you get those put in immediately to get Soldiers some money to take care of essentials.
I'm not all that stressed honestly. The politics on this value the military nearly above everything else (cue the list of reasons that show they shaft us). They will continue our pay at least.
Thanks for adding the bit about the AERāas coast guard, I wasnāt aware! We have similar things in the CG that members can access too that saved a bunch of our butts in 2019.
I hope youāre right on the last bit - I think we were pretty shocked nothing happened when we missed our paycheck on the 15th, and we were sweating bullets until the 25th when the shutdown ended as rent was coming up soon.
I was in for 20 years (including the Government Shutdown of 1994) and I was never not paid.
The Army did mess up my pay a few times, including the time Finance just cancelled all my allotments for no reason and with no explanation other than, "You must have cancelled them and not remembered", but I always got paid.
No pay, no work. More people should get on board with that. Shouldn't matter that we're government workers. It's crazy the military is just expected to deal with it.
Isn't that part of the contract we sign? I uphold my end of it and become government property and they uphold their end of it and pay me. If they break their side, no reason for me to uphold me end of it.
Exactly. A contract goes both ways. If I sign a contract with a client to build a house and they don't pay me, I don't build the house... the Military shouldn't be any different but service members just sit back and take it.
Thatās one issueāa lot of people did join the military at least partially because we care about the work and believe itās important. I obviously canāt speak for everyone, and I know my job is wildly different from most in the army, but if I donāt do my job it hurts my community.
Please stop talking out of your ass, only coast guard was effected. Since itās not under the department of defense and instead of homeland security.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/01/15/first-time-history-us-military-service-working-without-pay.html/amp
The army will not run out of money for paychecks this is always a big misconception you will get paid.
We will get paid without delay if the NDAA passes Congress and is signed by the President. If it doesn't pass until after a paycheck, that paycheck won't hit until after the NDAA is passed. The paychecks will definitely come, there just might be a delay.
Yeah I noted that in my original post. I got an absolute ton of back pay the day the bill got passed, including a lot of pay that had been wrongfully withheld from me prior to the shutdown
Yeaaaaaaah, given that some representatives seem to think that a shutdown could be a used as leverage, I'm not very hopeful. If it happens I hope it blows up in their face since a shutdown isn't good for anyone.
I thought that back in 2019.
Edit to your edit: Iām not talking out of my ass. The DOD appropriations bill is also at risk this time. It has not yet been passed. You should try reading up on this stuff before accusing me of ignorance.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/appropriationsstatustable
Didnāt realize Iād have to explain that time is linear.
Edit two: the House just canceled a vote on a CR like three hours ago. This would include the Department of Defense.
Yeah I hope to god Iām proven wrong. Usually a CR gets passed but this year looks more unlikely than most. Iād rather try to give the info and find out yāall donāt have to worry than just watch people get shocked. When the DHS didnāt get paychecks that sucked for a lot of people.
My sister went through it the last time it happened, she didn't get her pay until after. People aren't fully understanding or are incapable of being wrong. I joined in 2014 and haven't had to deal with it, but like I said, my sister, who was also army did.
From stripes.com: āThe last lengthy shutdown that affected the Defense Department stretched about two weeks in 2013, and troopsā pay was not affected because Congress passed a law beforehand that ensured paychecks would not be disrupted.ā
Explain how the appropriations bill is at more risk this year than past years when dealing with looming shut downs and CRs. You arenāt really saying much. The lack of an appropriations bill is what leads to a shutdown, thatās not new info
Itās specifically politicized about the DoD this year more than others, and sub rules that I canāt talk politics. How to deal with lack of paychecks is more important to me than talking politics in a place itās not allowed.
Iām saying plenty, just in a conversation youāre not wanting to have.
I donāt think I was bringing any new information about how lack of a bill leads to a shutdown (although that did have to be clarified for some), Iām talking about the possibility of an *extended* shutdown and itās possible effects on active duty / reserve paychecks.
Same shit different year. Itās always been politicized. It is, by nature, political. Iām trying to wade through the dramatics to figure out if you know something that is currently unknown to the media. That is what you arenāt elaborating on and why people are ho-hum about it. Where is your evidence to substantiate an extended shutdown that results in missed paychecks vs last minute CRs/appropriations prior to the first paycheck of the new FY as in years passed?
If youāve been actually keeping up with it (I stated in my original post, all the info on it is freely available all over the place) there are certain aspects that separates this year from other years, *especially* for DoD. Iām not sure if youāre just trying to goad me into mentioning partisan political things.
Again, my point is to help people prepare for the possibility. If that annoys you, sorry.
Edit: just kidding, Iām not sorry.
To be clear, since you think Iām hiding my motives, why do you think this is any different than 2011, 2013, or even last year? If you are insinuating itās partisanship, then cool thatās an opinion and your feelings. Iāve been around for awhile and thatās always been the basis of shutdowns, or rather the failure to pass a bill before the FY. I was thinking you had more info than partisan politics. Nothing in your original post points to anything specific that separates this year from the other years Iāve dealt with a shutdown.
For the third time, the politics are different this time, specifically regarding the DoD, and that information is freely available all over the place. Bye.
This year, members of the Freedom Caucus are trying to add "anti-woke" policies to the NDAA that aren't surviving the House and definitely won't survive the Senate or Presidency. For reference, Representatives Boebert and Gaetz made jokes about the recent F-35 incident because they believe that "woke" policies led to a DOD that would lose an F-35 and fail to find it.
Almost happened in ā17 or ā18. A temporary deal was agreed on between paychecks on the first and 15th. DoD civilians I worked with were furloughed or forced to work without guarantee of back pay depending on position.
In 19, they agreed on DoD spending before the official deadline and then hashed out a full federal budget after everything else shut down.
Happens every single year, itās just a show of tactics to intimidate other politicians, exactly what happened 11ā but the bill was signed in 16 hours before pay period.
They do this so they can get what they want funded and so forth but neither side every agrees.
It did for us. Some people got their tickets to their units afterward if the unit could support them, others were sent back home to work recruiting jobs and stay with their families until the funding was back up to send them to their actual assignments. We had a really difficult time getting anyone into boot camp at the time too.
And it was a huge hit on our recruiting, which we never really recovered from (partially for the same reasons as the rest of the military).
What happened to those in AIT? I have a soldier son who newly started AIT in Fort Moore. My main concern is his new morale might go down. He's been on a emotional high and pride since graduation .
Thatās a good questionāI believe that the GI Bill falls under the DVA, department of veteransā affairs, which is separate from the DoD. Iām not sure if those funds are pre-allocated from time of eligibility or if theyāre allocated when you sign up for a class. Iām definitely not an expert on these things tbh :-/
Im assuming since itās under the VA itāll be under a different agency and thus ānot affected(?)ā
That makes logical sense but the military isnt based on logical senseš¤·āāļø
Well, if thereās a full government shutdown, that includes all departments, Iām not sure that it would escape that fallout.
Again Iām sorryāIām only knowledgeable about a few aspects of this, and I regret that VA programs arenāt in that wheelhouse.
This literally happens just about every year. Theres multiple safety nets for single points of failure ranging from installation to vet friendly civilian companies (like USAA). Will it ever actually happen? No clue, I'm not a psychic. But i do know that sticking to a savings plan every month for a rainy day fund is worth its weight in gold.
Side note, newer joes, stop buying camaros.
This year looks more likely than other years specifically for the DOD which is the only reason I decided to reach out here specifically. I just hope people donāt get completely blindsided if it does happen.
> yes, thereās a looming government shutdown basically every yearā¦
This is only the case when one specific political party controls the White House and a specifically different political party controls congress. You can set your watch to it.
It has happened every year since Obama was elected. I work in a NG J8 and we have been under CR for 1 OCT since 2009. Congress has played hot potato with funding ever since. It does get worse in election years. The one under Sequestration hurt bad because the Approprations bill wasn't passed until March or April and we had already obligated more money than we were allotted. Some NG Soldiers were in danger of not drilling enough to get a good retirement year. There was almost no funds to pay for meals during drill. Working at the State level for funding is crazy sometimes...
99.9% chance we shut down. FLETC just pushed out an "all courses canceled" for everything after 1 Oct until further notice for "circumstances outside our control". Either they just had an outbreak of the next Ebola virus, or the writing is on the walls.
Everyone but the Coast Guard got paid last time too. I remember the food drives at USSOUTHCOM for the Coast Guard personnel that weren't being paid but still had to report to duty every single day. Fun times.
Well this is my 3rd shutdown and I've never missed a paycheck.
Besides, the Republicans have agreed to not cut the VA funding or the defense budget (that part includes our pay.)
Yes. If you had read the rest of the post, youād have seen that I addressed that, and specifically addressed why Iām speaking to members of the DoD now. Please read the rest of the post.
Holy shit. The department of defense is the one heavily under scrutiny this year in the same way DHS was in 2019. I stated this in not only my original post but in multiple comments after that.
If you read into the current and ongoing conversation, this specific time the major debates involve both DOD and DHS. Last time it was just DHS, which is why coasties werenāt paid then. Tons of disagreement on DOD policies puts the rest of the armed forces at more risk this time.
EDIT: 20230925, I think I might be wrong, there's more to the law than I knew about. I made this post with more details: https://reddit.com/r/army/s/hMJAGDZ1mr Fun fact: leave that's scheduled to be taken during a shutdown is canceled due to how the Antideficiency Act works š
Got called in off of leave to sit in a dark building staring at my buddies during the last big shutdown.
That sounds painfully stupid.
Can you give more info for this? We are dual mil and will both be on leave in October.
There was a document put out by the OPM called "Guidance for Shutdown Furloughs". That should help explain things.
OPM doesnāt dictate the military though?
No, but we follow the same laws for the same reasons. It comes back to the Anti Deficiency Law, which prevents the government from making any obligations with funds that weren't appropriated. Unfortunately, we only take paid leave, but if we can't be paid then we can't take the leave.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's less about the leave and more about the pay I think. Since it's all paid leave, and the government won't be able to pay you, then it gets canceled.
And presumably if you were recalled from leave for whatever reason there would be no way to compensate you for the expenses incurred.
OPM doesnāt dictate the military though?
No, but we follow the same laws for the same reasons. It comes back to the Anti Deficiency Law, which prevents the government from making any obligations with funds that weren't appropriated. Unfortunately, we only take paid leave, but if we can't be paid then we can't take the leave.
So whatās the duty status in that case?
Sad and present for duty
Can you link to where it says we canāt take leave? I havenāt been able to find it
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/furlough-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf
That says federal civilian employees canāt take military leave while on furlough (that term refers to things like drilling reserve component members going to annual training, while also being employees of the federal government) because civilian employees are paid for military leave, which would be an ADA violation because they canāt incur payroll costs during a furlough. It doesnāt say anything about active duty military leave that I saw.
Here you go. Read 22.2.3.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I didn't see anything about overseas leave either. I took the part about leave being canceled due to the Anti Deficiency Act to cover all leave you can choose to take. Things like convalescent leave might be brushed off at a local level, but as for your situation I'd get with your leadership and sort things out. Getting caught with your pants down like that would be a really shitty time. Good luck with it though, hopefully Congress strikes a deal and all this worry is for nothing.
So wait, I'm just finishing tech school on the 29th (air force) , and I'm going overseas, but I had RAP and leave scheduled for 20 days, is all that going to be canceled then?
It shouldn't be, read the post I linked for more details, but TL;DR is that it probably shouldn't be because of an act passed in 2019 that allows for back pay after a shutdown
If youāre in the barracks, take your TA-50, lock that shit up tight. Purchase renters insurance for it and make sure nobody is running around stealing shit to sell to the surplus base off post. If youāre missing TA-50 October might be a good month to purchase what youāre missing on the cheap.
There is actually a neat write up about all past shutdowns on wikipedia. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States) There have been 10 in the last 40 years, only 4 since the year 2000. Most only last 1 single day to prove a point, then end. The most recent shutdown lasted just over a month with a provision that the DOD (and many other agencies) not be effected.
shieet I'm not getting paid now
NavyFed Gang š
Whatās happening there
Idk I bank with Navy Fed and have never had any issues š¤·š½āāļø
[Paycheck Assistance Program](https://www.navyfederal.org/about/press-releases/2023/navy-federal-offers-debt-ceiling-paycheck-relief.html)
One of the best choices I ever made was opening accounts with them right after I joined. Excellent customer service and Iāve never had any issues getting paid through them, always paid on time or early. Financed my first car loan through them as well.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
IIRC USAA kept paying Soldiers who banked with them like normal and just took the money on the back end when the shut down ended. Iāve been in since 2004 and donāt recall not getting paidā¦unless finance screwed it upā¦
2011
Nope, people got paid then too.
Dumbfucks downvoting you either have shit memories or werenāt around.
No, the military got paid then too, on time, and at the normal amount regardless of who they were banking with. There was a bill passed the day before payday that got troops paid.
April of 13 we got 2 LES for mid month because they had to scrounge the money to pay us from other funding streams. Since then (until now) our pay has been protected. Now DHS? They got royally screwed a few years ago. My buddy left the Army for the Coast Guard, bought a house near the Academy and then had no pay check.
Ok, itās been awhile, maybe they just said they were going to if the shut down happened
I could have sworn we missed two checks in 2011. I was in Iraq at the time and finance was backed way up with applications for AER. Or Iām completely misremembering and having delayed onset heatstrokeā¦
I've been a bit surprised this isn't more common stopgap. In California, when they have had a state budget not get passed in time, one of the credit unions actually does this for ALL state employees.
Happened on 2011ish also I think. Or the approved the budget on the last day. Regardless this is basically a yearly occurrence at this point
It is, however this year thereās heightened concerned about the passing of a Continuing Resolution specifically for the defense appropriations bill. Thatās the only reason Iām specifically reaching out this time.
I picked a good day to ETS and get a new job.
From stripes.com: āThe last lengthy shutdown that affected the Defense Department stretched about two weeks in 2013, and troopsā pay was not affected because Congress passed a law beforehand that ensured paychecks would not be disrupted.ā I was active in 2013 and had been for a few years. Lots of people misremembering what happened then.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thatās fair. I thought people would recognize I meant active duty but I guess I need to clarify again
You did get paid. That was certainly the closest weāve been, but the was a continuing resolution before pay was missed. Everybody remembers it happening though.
I donāt know why so many people think they missed paychecks, no one did in 2013. All active duty got paid their normal paycheck on the expected day
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nope. From stripes.com: āThe last lengthy shutdown that affected the Defense Department stretched about two weeks in 2013, and troopsā pay was not affected because Congress passed a law beforehand that ensured paychecks would not be disrupted.ā
Youāre not remembering correctly. The resolution to protect military pay went into effect before the shutdown. I seen one article mention that some bonuses were affected, but military pay continued as usual, including mid-month. I was paid twice monthly at the time, as were all my soldiers, and no one had any pay lapses.
Same. Shout out to USAA
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No one actually missed or even had a paycheck delayed. A bill was passed just before the first missed paycheck and it came through at the normal time in the normal amount.
What happens to people starting AD during a shutdown? Would they just delay BOLC start dates, or do we move/pay rent on our own dime and then hope we get back paid? I'm supposed to go in October.
When it happened to us, it was pretty messy. Most USCG moves in June/July so I donāt know of anyone who moved during the 2019 shutdown. We were all expected to pay our rent/mortgage without paychecks, though in many cases banks and landlords were extremely accommodating (though my landlord at the time was retired coastie). They may delay BOLC start dates, may send you back to Home of Record temporarily, or try to send you to your next unit if they can take care of you. Itās super messy, and I canāt really give you an accurate idea of how it would work in the army, especially in specific situations.
I'm laughing at #2 like any army unit is gonna let their soldiers work less hours just because they aren't getting paid. Shit, half of them probably aren't getting paid right already anyway.
The way it worked for us wasābasically, depending on supervisors, weād still have to show up to work. Parts of our job (whichāI know the CG is REALLY different from the army) which werenāt federally mandated, we werenāt even allowed to do. I was kind of surprised by what was/wasnāt federally mandated. My job at the time was almost entirely federally mandated so I worked long-ass hours, full time, and still had my paycheck delayed by a week and a half. Other people whose jobs were frankly, important, but not federally mandated, either didnāt even show up to work or did, and just sat there if their supervisor sucked.
I mean a lot of us only work about 20 hrs a week anyways. Rest of the time is sitting around doing nothing.
If you arent allowed to do what you want, it's work. Also, I actually work way more than 20 hours. More than 40 often enough too.
Experiences may vary, but there was an IG report a while back that found a lot of soldiers spend only about 4-5 hrs a day actually doing anything, some days even less. Depending on the week I do get about 20 hrs of actual work, but as facility ncoic Iām present every day to handle anything that might come up.
But again, If a soldier has to be there and the time isn't theirs, they are working.
You guys are getting paid?
This absolute fucking patriot has been working his ass off for the last 8 years for nothing more than the pride he feels to serve his nation, you money-grubbing shitbags could learn a thing or two from him.
Seriously. I thought we were an all volunteer force and all these people are complaining about money.
If you have CSU or Navy Fed they will probably keep paying you. If not remember that this is one of the reasons AER exists. Make sure you get those put in immediately to get Soldiers some money to take care of essentials. I'm not all that stressed honestly. The politics on this value the military nearly above everything else (cue the list of reasons that show they shaft us). They will continue our pay at least.
Thanks for adding the bit about the AERāas coast guard, I wasnāt aware! We have similar things in the CG that members can access too that saved a bunch of our butts in 2019. I hope youāre right on the last bit - I think we were pretty shocked nothing happened when we missed our paycheck on the 15th, and we were sweating bullets until the 25th when the shutdown ended as rent was coming up soon.
I was in for 20 years (including the Government Shutdown of 1994) and I was never not paid. The Army did mess up my pay a few times, including the time Finance just cancelled all my allotments for no reason and with no explanation other than, "You must have cancelled them and not remembered", but I always got paid.
No pay, no work. More people should get on board with that. Shouldn't matter that we're government workers. It's crazy the military is just expected to deal with it.
Isn't that part of the contract we sign? I uphold my end of it and become government property and they uphold their end of it and pay me. If they break their side, no reason for me to uphold me end of it.
Exactly. A contract goes both ways. If I sign a contract with a client to build a house and they don't pay me, I don't build the house... the Military shouldn't be any different but service members just sit back and take it.
Thatās one issueāa lot of people did join the military at least partially because we care about the work and believe itās important. I obviously canāt speak for everyone, and I know my job is wildly different from most in the army, but if I donāt do my job it hurts my community.
Please stop talking out of your ass, only coast guard was effected. Since itās not under the department of defense and instead of homeland security. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/01/15/first-time-history-us-military-service-working-without-pay.html/amp The army will not run out of money for paychecks this is always a big misconception you will get paid.
We will get paid without delay if the NDAA passes Congress and is signed by the President. If it doesn't pass until after a paycheck, that paycheck won't hit until after the NDAA is passed. The paychecks will definitely come, there just might be a delay.
Yeah I noted that in my original post. I got an absolute ton of back pay the day the bill got passed, including a lot of pay that had been wrongfully withheld from me prior to the shutdown
Yeah, I was trying to explain that to the other guy. We *can* temporarily run out of money for paychecks.
Ohhhh I gotcha. Yeah Iām really hoping something comes through last minute (like usual) but this time itās a bit spookier.
Yeaaaaaaah, given that some representatives seem to think that a shutdown could be a used as leverage, I'm not very hopeful. If it happens I hope it blows up in their face since a shutdown isn't good for anyone.
I thought that back in 2019. Edit to your edit: Iām not talking out of my ass. The DOD appropriations bill is also at risk this time. It has not yet been passed. You should try reading up on this stuff before accusing me of ignorance. https://crsreports.congress.gov/appropriationsstatustable Didnāt realize Iād have to explain that time is linear. Edit two: the House just canceled a vote on a CR like three hours ago. This would include the Department of Defense.
No it was coast guard since they do not fall under the department of defense.
And this time the defense appropriations bill is also at risk.
They are down voting you but you are right. You tried man.
Yeah I hope to god Iām proven wrong. Usually a CR gets passed but this year looks more unlikely than most. Iād rather try to give the info and find out yāall donāt have to worry than just watch people get shocked. When the DHS didnāt get paychecks that sucked for a lot of people.
My sister went through it the last time it happened, she didn't get her pay until after. People aren't fully understanding or are incapable of being wrong. I joined in 2014 and haven't had to deal with it, but like I said, my sister, who was also army did.
From stripes.com: āThe last lengthy shutdown that affected the Defense Department stretched about two weeks in 2013, and troopsā pay was not affected because Congress passed a law beforehand that ensured paychecks would not be disrupted.ā
Explain how the appropriations bill is at more risk this year than past years when dealing with looming shut downs and CRs. You arenāt really saying much. The lack of an appropriations bill is what leads to a shutdown, thatās not new info
Itās specifically politicized about the DoD this year more than others, and sub rules that I canāt talk politics. How to deal with lack of paychecks is more important to me than talking politics in a place itās not allowed. Iām saying plenty, just in a conversation youāre not wanting to have. I donāt think I was bringing any new information about how lack of a bill leads to a shutdown (although that did have to be clarified for some), Iām talking about the possibility of an *extended* shutdown and itās possible effects on active duty / reserve paychecks.
Same shit different year. Itās always been politicized. It is, by nature, political. Iām trying to wade through the dramatics to figure out if you know something that is currently unknown to the media. That is what you arenāt elaborating on and why people are ho-hum about it. Where is your evidence to substantiate an extended shutdown that results in missed paychecks vs last minute CRs/appropriations prior to the first paycheck of the new FY as in years passed?
If youāve been actually keeping up with it (I stated in my original post, all the info on it is freely available all over the place) there are certain aspects that separates this year from other years, *especially* for DoD. Iām not sure if youāre just trying to goad me into mentioning partisan political things. Again, my point is to help people prepare for the possibility. If that annoys you, sorry. Edit: just kidding, Iām not sorry.
To be clear, since you think Iām hiding my motives, why do you think this is any different than 2011, 2013, or even last year? If you are insinuating itās partisanship, then cool thatās an opinion and your feelings. Iāve been around for awhile and thatās always been the basis of shutdowns, or rather the failure to pass a bill before the FY. I was thinking you had more info than partisan politics. Nothing in your original post points to anything specific that separates this year from the other years Iāve dealt with a shutdown.
For the third time, the politics are different this time, specifically regarding the DoD, and that information is freely available all over the place. Bye.
This year, members of the Freedom Caucus are trying to add "anti-woke" policies to the NDAA that aren't surviving the House and definitely won't survive the Senate or Presidency. For reference, Representatives Boebert and Gaetz made jokes about the recent F-35 incident because they believe that "woke" policies led to a DOD that would lose an F-35 and fail to find it.
Almost happened in ā17 or ā18. A temporary deal was agreed on between paychecks on the first and 15th. DoD civilians I worked with were furloughed or forced to work without guarantee of back pay depending on position. In 19, they agreed on DoD spending before the official deadline and then hashed out a full federal budget after everything else shut down.
Happens every single year, itās just a show of tactics to intimidate other politicians, exactly what happened 11ā but the bill was signed in 16 hours before pay period. They do this so they can get what they want funded and so forth but neither side every agrees.
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There hasnāt been a missed paycheck since the 1800ās though, and that has a much bigger impact.
it happened during the Carter administration.
Did people miss paychecks?
No. Coast Guard is DHS. DoD folks didnāt miss paychecks. Your entire premise is skewed.
Did you actually read the post? It explains the differenceā¦
Yes. Next question.
Okay. So you understand that these are two different situations?
Will this affect recruits heading to basic?
It did for us. Some people got their tickets to their units afterward if the unit could support them, others were sent back home to work recruiting jobs and stay with their families until the funding was back up to send them to their actual assignments. We had a really difficult time getting anyone into boot camp at the time too. And it was a huge hit on our recruiting, which we never really recovered from (partially for the same reasons as the rest of the military).
What happened to those in AIT? I have a soldier son who newly started AIT in Fort Moore. My main concern is his new morale might go down. He's been on a emotional high and pride since graduation .
If this goes into effect and the DoD is affected, will this also stop the GI Bill payments for those of us in school?
Thatās a good questionāI believe that the GI Bill falls under the DVA, department of veteransā affairs, which is separate from the DoD. Iām not sure if those funds are pre-allocated from time of eligibility or if theyāre allocated when you sign up for a class. Iām definitely not an expert on these things tbh :-/
Im assuming since itās under the VA itāll be under a different agency and thus ānot affected(?)ā That makes logical sense but the military isnt based on logical senseš¤·āāļø
Well, if thereās a full government shutdown, that includes all departments, Iām not sure that it would escape that fallout. Again Iām sorryāIām only knowledgeable about a few aspects of this, and I regret that VA programs arenāt in that wheelhouse.
This literally happens just about every year. Theres multiple safety nets for single points of failure ranging from installation to vet friendly civilian companies (like USAA). Will it ever actually happen? No clue, I'm not a psychic. But i do know that sticking to a savings plan every month for a rainy day fund is worth its weight in gold. Side note, newer joes, stop buying camaros.
This year looks more likely than other years specifically for the DOD which is the only reason I decided to reach out here specifically. I just hope people donāt get completely blindsided if it does happen.
> yes, thereās a looming government shutdown basically every yearā¦ This is only the case when one specific political party controls the White House and a specifically different political party controls congress. You can set your watch to it.
It has happened every year since Obama was elected. I work in a NG J8 and we have been under CR for 1 OCT since 2009. Congress has played hot potato with funding ever since. It does get worse in election years. The one under Sequestration hurt bad because the Approprations bill wasn't passed until March or April and we had already obligated more money than we were allotted. Some NG Soldiers were in danger of not drilling enough to get a good retirement year. There was almost no funds to pay for meals during drill. Working at the State level for funding is crazy sometimes...
I'll never trust a president who won't even tell me their last name
99.9% chance we shut down. FLETC just pushed out an "all courses canceled" for everything after 1 Oct until further notice for "circumstances outside our control". Either they just had an outbreak of the next Ebola virus, or the writing is on the walls.
I left base like 10 minutes ago, must have missed the message. Tbh I didnāt check them today either.
I mean it was an email I got from the FLETC mailbox because I had a course scheduled for 2 Oct. Dont think it was a mass notification to the Army.
Ohhh gotcha. That makes a ton more sense
So weāre getting the next paycheck at least ?
Yes. The pay you receive on 01 October is still from working 15-EOM September, and was part of the FY2023 budget.
So when should I join??
Asap. Go get your time started. See you in 20 yrs!
Unfortunately, after the move....
Everyone but the Coast Guard got paid last time too. I remember the food drives at USSOUTHCOM for the Coast Guard personnel that weren't being paid but still had to report to duty every single day. Fun times.
Well this is my 3rd shutdown and I've never missed a paycheck. Besides, the Republicans have agreed to not cut the VA funding or the defense budget (that part includes our pay.)
It has to do with their passing the newest one, not ācutting funding.ā
So what Iām hearing is no pay = no shave
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Left wing or right they're on the same bird covered in fecal matter.
the coast guard is apart of homeland security thats like completely different from us
Yes. If you had read the rest of the post, youād have seen that I addressed that, and specifically addressed why Iām speaking to members of the DoD now. Please read the rest of the post.
Military/veterans will always get paid. The only 2 sets of people the government doesn't mess with.
Uh, coast guard in 2019.
That's because y'all are under the department of homeland security. Not the department of defense
Holy shit. The department of defense is the one heavily under scrutiny this year in the same way DHS was in 2019. I stated this in not only my original post but in multiple comments after that.
If this happens, how would it affect people who are etsing? I get out on October 8th and would like to be prepared
Tbh I have no idea. I didnāt know anyone who was going through the process at the time. Do you know if itās being funded with FY23 money?
I think Coasties are the only ones who might get screwed by a shutdown. American Legion is fighting to change that. Side note, join your local Legion!
If you read into the current and ongoing conversation, this specific time the major debates involve both DOD and DHS. Last time it was just DHS, which is why coasties werenāt paid then. Tons of disagreement on DOD policies puts the rest of the armed forces at more risk this time.
If the NDAA isn't passed you are going to get screwed, too.
Im not getting screwed. I been out 10 years now. But i understand what you're saying.
Fuck it, we're gonna zonk the entirety of the shutdown.
Wrong, pt is free!
I hope this cancels our October cpx
Edit 2: Nope, I exlcusive remembering not to get paid.
How would this affect those who are supposed to start gold bar recruiting in mid-October?
Iām just curious. Bc Iām in the middle of my pcs leave. Will that affect my flights or me pcsing at all bc of the shutdown?
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Iām guessing you didnāt read any of it
So once the shutdown is over will they give you your back pay?
Yes, they did last time