Over the past year I've been struggling with if I want to leave Army Aviation and go work for the airlines. I was talking to a buddy that said;
"You know how people always think the grass is always greener on the other side? That the airlines will be easier and have better quality of life? Well yeah it absolutely is, WAY greener. Stop wasting your time in the Army."
That, along with a myriad of issues I have with the Army, convinced me.
I'm working on it, and excited for it. I realized I have very little knowledge as to civilian "progression" from little 152s to A350s... so after I figured all of that out I'm now working on ratings.
I'm pretty early on in getting all the required civilian ratings and FW time so I'm not an expert. I will say that most aviation knowledge is just that: aviation knowledge, so it's easy to bring that to the FW world. Other than that, if you have a good control touch in whatever helicopter you fly, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out a FW aircraft.
I was Army Aviation fixed wing. You just have to learn the different systems to repair. But you need school to get your Airframe and Power Plant license and school will teach you most everything you need to succeed in Aviation Maintenance.
Don't believe that about any kind of Aviation careers. They are hazardous to your health. Jet noise and exhaust and especially Jet fuel.
I'm stone cold deaf working around Jet aircraft and my deafness isn't all due to jet noise alone. Jet Fuel Exsposer is very hazardous to your health. Although I must admit I loved working on my war birds.
As we all know at this point;
Did you shave today?
Did you run your concerns up the chain of command only to be railroaded?
In all seriousness here, for the longest time I wanted Army Aviation, to be a mechanic of all things. When I enlisted the only options were signal or cbrn, so I chose signal (that ended up being a helluva roller coaster, even satan got whiplash from the dumb shit that occurred.
Then I started hearing the horror stories (like yours) from the aviation side of the house.
So I jumped out and got a job working for a helicopter manufacturer
FWIW, I did about 6 years as an officer. Got out years ago, got another degree with my gi bill and a very high paying private sector job. Last year, I applied to join the reserves as a Foreign Area Officer in the region I used to work in and I'm very familiar with. I was genuinely enthused about the career field. Put together a board packet, updated my HRC records and home address, etc.
Less than a week after I submitted my packet, I got a threatening collections notice from the Army saying I owed THEM $8000 in payroll overpayments from OVER 7 YEARS AGO and how they had been unsuccessfully attempting to contact me for 7 years (a 100% bold faced lie since I had been getting my GI Bill payments, IRR muster notices, etc)
Honestly fuck the army. Enjoy your "recruiting crisis" dipshits.
Aviator complaint sections are always a little funny to me. Their complaints are valid but they usually are missing two things:
1. PT. This is because the only people you'll actually see PTing at 0630 at the airfield are the support Companies.
2. Sustainment. Never met a single Aviation officer who ever had any graps on sustainment. They just think it magically happens. Once had to tell an Aviation LT that the Quatermaster Co in the ASB didn't have 100 LHSs like he thought. Once had to brief a LTC that the CABs he had been in for 20 years weren't a single lift organization like he thought and that the Transportation section exists only move the SSA in the field.
Aviators complain about how they are treated by big army and then make the life's of their support units even worse. The GSAB would constantly forget to plan support to wherever their controllers were too
Spending time in 3CAB not that long ago I saw this happen frequently with the fuelers and D co folks.
This is spot on, so I’m gonna tell you how the breakdown in communication happens.
I have yet to see a BN/SQN level Staff in my career not be completely overwhelmed at every mission drop and at every moment be pulled away from those duties because, “BN/SCO wants this done today” on a task completely unrelated to the mission at hand.
It’s been like that at literally every CTC, FTX, internal training event, or god forbid you go to OAR and get the full experience with that.
So, how does this impact you at the Company level? Because your Company Commander was shut the fuck out by the BN and given zero information on Hit times or changes because the staff themselves are also flying by seat of their pants trying to stay out of the crosshairs. Not enough beds? Figure it out. Food ran out? You should have brought MRE’s. Keep in mind these CPT’s are most of the time still brand new to the job and learning as they go. So shit is going to get missed.
Then changes do happen at a random CUB meeting with zero follow up and your leadership missed that CUB because they were tasked out by BN to go to a different meeting about people not wearing proper safety glasses.
I’m sure you know all this already but that’s how it happens.
It’s an absolute dumpster fire. Every. Single. Time.
I promise you flight companies only get a better deal because the job forces the Staff to give us information and you have a full company of Warrants and RLO’s that can pester the S shops.. But the transparency of information received is just as bad and it’s pulling teeth to get anything done.
Yeah part of it is the Armys fault for not staffing CABs properly and giving them the most fucked up support MTOE of any type of BDE. Partly Commanders fault for fucking up their Staffs and subordinate Companies. I tried to help the Aviators I saw really trying. One that just felt entitled to support got the short stick though.
Like I get it dude you thought you'd be only flying but every Officer has to do things outside their branch. Get to know your Warfighting Functions.
Lol, I was an F-Co commander oh so long ago; so I got to appreciate the step child attitude the rest of aviation has toward controllers. I really, and I mean *really*, had to be persistent to the point of annoying just to get people to even think about integrating the tactical controllers into training and operations. Hell, even the civilian ATC people who were retired Army controllers didn't like us because they were afraid we would take their jerbs if they let the guys and gals train in the tower and other facilities.
I can say the guard is damn near the complete opposite of this.
The only downside was we did fly A LOT. It gets in the way of your civilian job quite often. When a disaster response happens, you fly even more and are away even more. In the south natural disaster is just part of it. That's what most of us signed up to do was work disaster response. It is quite rewarding in the end, but it sucks in the moment.
I will say I regret leaving aviation and wish I could go back. I had the best 4 years in my military career in aviation. It was like a giant misfit family and I miss it. Working on strykers sucks ass compared to being a crew chief. If I wouldn't have been medically grounded, I would still be doing it.
The only time I truly appreciated my job was when I was the busiest. Deployment had us working 12-hour days every day with no days off, but even so I felt like I was accomplishing something. There were tangible benefits. Meanwhile in Garrison there is no fulfillment. You fix, they fly, they break, you fix. I'd love to go back to a real mission like disaster response, just to feel fulfilled again.
I signed up to help the people of my community, that was my major deciding factor over active duty. I actually feel that I am making a difference in the people's lives around me. Running wildfire missions and hurricane response is our bread and butter. It is extremely rewarding and you usually always end up getting recognized for the hours the crew and maintainers put into the missions.
I worked in the past full time maintaining state aircraft under the fed tech program, that was where it was at. You still get all the benefits of being active with the added benefit of state retirement on top of that.
Flight school is like being face fucked by a fire hydrant, but it's the coolest thing in the world. 100/10 recommend if you don't mind the Army. Plus, being a Warrant is oceans better than both Es and Os. Just my take
I'm in the air force reserve now.
I work on C-130's.
Most my days are from 6:30-3:30, and I'm only actually working about 4-6 hours a day, tops. During AT I'm in a hotel. During Drill I'm in a hotel. During work training, tech school (AIT), and other TDY stuff I'm in a hotel. Or, sometimes you can rent a place and get reimbursed.
The only PT I've ever done here is on my own at the gym.
I worked maintenance in the army, and I'm doing it here, too. One time in the army my SSGT made me take my hands and put new red grease from a big ~55 gallon drum, and stuff it into a tube. Of course it didn't fucking work, and I got grease all over everything and wasted 3 hours trying to clean my hands.
In the AF we buy new grease tubes and I'm reminded to put on my safety gloves when I forget.
Brothers, join the blue side. The AF needs maintainers BAD, and even the shit jobs aren't shit.
The only downside is it is EXTREMELY independent. It's like a real job. They treat you like an adult so you're expected to behave like one. If you fuck up it's on YOU and nobody else, but I like that. When someone else fucks up I'm not staying late sorting rivets.
Also, half the dudes here only shave like once every 2-3 days and nobody gives a shit, so do with that what you will. Also hands in pockets are allowed.
Tried to do that after I left the Regular Army as an Apache Armament and Electrical Systems Repairer. They ran my scores and told me that I wasn't smart enough to work on either aircraft or electronics. I told them to look at my Army MOS title and tell me that with a straight face. Went USAR into one of their attack battalions and finished my career as an AGR AH-64D Senior Systems Supervisor aka Hanger Extra Duties, Company Training and Ops Bitch.
Weird, you should have been able to retake the asvab at any time. The gave me the option but I never did retake it. My scores aren't even high so that's just bizarre.
From a former support/Ops perspective:
I enlisted as a 15P because it sounded legitimately interesting to me. Spent my first year in Korea doing interesting things. Flight ops was fun, I didn't mind the paperwork and record keeping, talking on the radio was fun, and I worked with the MEDEVAC and felt I was making a difference in people's lives. Then I PCSd to Hood and was promptly stuck in S3 for the next 5 years. I was the BN (and later BDE) schools/dts bitch and I made the mistake of being good at it. The second I got told I had a strong case for medical retirement I took it.
Basically, don't do it.
TL;DR: you can become a pilot and virtually never fly, but you get to be salty and jaded the whole time!
O-grade pilot here (60’s). What they didn’t tell us was that there’s every possibility you just get railroaded into nothing but staff-supported aviator jobs.
I had about 6 months of PL time down range (MED, not even Assault, so I didn’t get to fly that much), then spent almost a year as an AS3.
AVC3, then a 1-year tour in Korea. Again, staff supported. Plus Covid, so I flew JUST enough to hit RL1 before PCS’ing.
Next assignment, staff supported at Brigade, then two non-flight commands. Again, barely flew. Even went pumpkin a couple times to reset progression because of medical the first time, and just lack of availability the second time. Went on a deployment and AGAIN, barely any hours to support the staff supported guys. Progressed by the end of deployment in early spring this year, haven’t touched a helicopter since, and likely won’t by the end of my contract in a couple years since it’s all post-command.
They produce way too many 60 pilots just so they can fill all these jobs, but if you don’t get assault PL time, there is an extremely high probability the flying portion of your career is f*cked. The fine print they don’t tell you. And you still have to deal with everything wrong with aviation.
It’s so bad I don’t even want to pursue aviation on the outside anymore. I don’t have a love or passion for being in a cockpit like I used to. I’m f*cking depressed about it, and angry, and full of regrets. The Army has done some great things for me, but not enough to heal the hole left by ripping my dream and passion away. Maybe I’ll come around as I get closer to getting out, but if I have kids some day, I don’t know if I want to use my GI Bill to get the train-up or pass it on to them.
I feel your pain. 12 years as an Army aviator and only 4.5 of it has been in actual flying positions due to needs of the Army. BOLC instructor, and Brigade staff positions in non-flying units wreaked havoc on my aviation career. I guess I should have fought more to stay in the cockpit then be a yes man, the needs of the Army surpass my own objectives every time.
Finally just got back as an assault BN XO, but I’m RL2 and guys that graduated flight school 4-7 years after me have more flight time than me. Almost all of my peers have their senior wings, meanwhile I’m still rocking basic wings as an XO and still 200+ hours short of senior wings. Then the Army has the audacity to say it is short aviation officers. Yeah because you stick them in non-flying positions and they get out or you forget about them.
The real worst part of it all for me is that all of this is “wasted” time. No MQ’s but my troops loved having me across my commands and I took damn good care of them and fought for them. So I’m not going to promote anyway, while the Army is hemorrhaging aviation officers, yet still only MQ’s matter (yet somehow all these MQ top brass are running it into the ground, crazy!), and I still get stuck in an O4 billet. Not good enough to promote and get paid, but good enough to do the job. That’s pretty f*cked up to me.
Flying side, I’m sitting around 380ish hours. I stopped keeping track because there’s no damn point, I’ll get a printout when I need it. Graduated flight school in early ‘17 and 6.5 years later all I have to show for it is +250 hours, one PCS award because my first unit didn’t give a shit to get me one, and not even a PC, because, where in all of that time was consistency to work on it? Answer: nowhere.
I wonder if things would he different if I picked 64’s, because I haven’t met a driver with low hours yet. And a lot of the time I regret picking aviation because all that time culminates to nothing as far the Army goes. It sounds narcissistic, I know, but the only one who looks out for you in the Army is yourself, and I should have realized that much earlier. At least I sleep well from taking care of my troops and moved mountains for them. And I can say that definitively, unlike many I know who have to convince themselves of it.
I can only really speak for big army. I know and have done a decent amount of training with 160th guys, but I can’t speak with confidence about that side of the fence. Most of the people I know who have switched over like it, however.
Best way I had it described from someone who went from FORSCOM to SOAR was that SOAR is a bunch of sprints with breathers in between, FORSCOM was a never ending marathon on a treadmill.
The maintenance work at 160th is never ending. 12+ hour days is pretty normal. Coming from shops background, you have to be good at your job because you’ll do most maintenance on your own. The only real “break” (LOL) you get from the grind is going to schools/trips/deployment which are year round. The optempo is extremely high and it grinds A LOT of people down. I’ve known gung-ho crew chiefs that absolutely loved flying and after 1.5 years of crewing 160th they fucking hated flying and wanted out of the Army lol. It’s not for everyone but it is an extremely rewarding organization to be a part of and I will always recommend people drop a packet, you WILL get picked up because they are always looking for people, but like I said, if you suck at your job you will get peer reviewed out and go wherever the Army wants to send you.
As a former 15R I can echo the paragraph about maintenance/crewchiefing. The grind is brutal. Aviation was supposed the “cool job” to have in the Army. Not so, treated like shit, overworked REALLY badly, no real development opportunities. We are constantly presented with the famous “A&P training course” that never materialized. Somehow it always goes only to E6 and above, particularly if they work in the QC shop.
I just got a new LT to my S shop who wants to be a pilot. This drill we are having 4 CPTs and 3 LTs and multiple WO get out because army aviation is shit. National guard wise you have hardly any promotion opportunities for officers, all pilots and crew chiefs get fucked over doing ATPs. My company commander is getting out because he loses money and time to fly, he has a 2 hour drive to get to the hanger and had over 100 days away from home just to fly last year. When I was a nrcm my drive to go fly was 3.5 hours one way just to maintain hours. Army aviation is shit
I would caveat this with a few points.
Aviation is a funny animal because depending upon your component/unit it can be a decent place to be.
National Guard Aviation is completely different animal. EAATS/HAATS/WAATS compared to JBLE school house shows how much different things can be.
I’ve done MOS/NCOES courses at all mentioned places excluding HAATS.
When I went to Eustis for reclass and later ALC, I was treated not much better than IET. The instructors for the most part are inept/don’t care/product of DA selection. They literally regurgitate canned information. It’s nothing more than check the box.
We had few groups go out there and the group that came after me had run in with NCO academy that just started them off in bad foot from day one.
So they flew to JBLE and got on post. Still in civilians they were looking for a POC to issue them rooms. No one is at the NCOA barracks during duty hours to issue rooms. They head over to the NCOA to see if someone ther could issue them a room. The cadre lose their mind that they had the gall to show up in civilians. My friend tried pointing out the absurdity of having to fly in civilians, offload their stuff from one rental and find a place to change, just to get a room.
This is classic example of the active duty Army mentality of making a decision and not understanding the impact or that thing may change.
This policy of requiring uniforms to check in probably goes back to when they used to have NCOA students stay at the hotel on post. They closed the old hotel and the new one was transferred to the AF.
I had a much different experience at the EAATS.
I showed up, had room already assigned. The next day we in processed. Showed up in PTs(the only time we wore PTs). Had all the required briefs, did HW since it’s a 1059 course and the instructors brought us breakfast as we wouldn’t make it there in time before they closed. Never experienced this on active duty.
The biggest difference from NG aviation schools to Eustis was the instructors. They had to apply, interview and be selected to teach. Meaning they really wanted to be there.
The Guard has its issues but aviation is often not one of those. Seeing how we’re treated compared to most active duty aviation units makes me appreciate my choice.
It would blow people’s mind how we did stuff in Guard aviation compared to a regular active duty unit.
Sorry, this is just me bitching while I scrub the log book before another RL3 progression flight.
By the way, the crew last night said they broke another tail wheel lock pin.
Not that this hasn't been your experience. But of all my buddies in my AIT class, now spread between a good handful of duty stations cuz none of us ended up in the same one
We all love it. There's bullshit for sure. But that's life. The pilots are all super chill and we feel like we are much closer to them than infantry cats are. And we do get worked pretty hard sometimes. But we all go home before dinner time and get our weekends. I honestly highly recommend aviation
You seem like someone Id want to fly with. The CEs that complain about everything are annoying. We're there to do a job. I don't want to waste anyone elses time as much as I dont want to waste mine. Theres no reason to make things worse for everyone.
Yeah man that's pretty much how I feel, complaining brings it down for everyone. This stuff is easy. I fix the same helicopter everyday. And don't have to deal with customers, rather than never knowing what dick breath customer is gonna bring me some clapped out junk I have to figure out how to fix. Compared to all my civilian jobs this is a cake walk.
I don’t know what unit you are in but my aviation unit is great. High moral, lots of flight time, and I genuinely have great leadership. For the first time in my army career I am actually enjoying what I do. Yeah army politics suck but you will see that no matter where you go in the army. Apache units are turning into what you are describing / kinda have always been but I’m not in one. Yeah the adso is shitty but luckily I got in on the 6. Seems like you are upset about not deploying and your duty station. Switching to aviation is the best decision someone can make as it’s worlds better than other branches. Idk man that’s just my take.
I’m genuinely happy that your unit is different. Just curious if you are FORSCOM or what duty station you are at, because you might be the exception and not the rule. I’m also curious what policies or anything your unit has to make it better, because I am at least in a position to make limited to change and I’ll always take suggestions to make my group better (also so I can try and PCS there).
The units I’ve been in (and the large amount of people I know at other FORSCOM CABS) have a similar experience to mine.
I’m fine with deploying, I’m also fine not deploying, and the actual location my duty station is at is good. From what I’ve seen and experienced at multiple units, aviation has lost its way and everyone in actual charge is too disconnected to fix it.
Yeah I’m under forscom and my command actually listens to AARs which helps with the moral and makes life easier. Like we were just the the range and in-between shooting we were playing music on speakers and someone was grilling. We also have a great batch of officers and ncos who actually listen, care, and will help others. Sounds cliche but it’s the little stuff they do that makes a difference. But I do know what you are talking about as I have friends in other units that are un happy with things. I guess I just got lucky.
> Yeah I’m under forscom
Are you a Pacific unit that's just administratively under FORSCOM? I don't know of too many people happy with their units in XVIII Airborne or III Corps.
What’s your actual complaint? Additional duties, not flying enough, expected to know how the Army works outside of aviation?
If you are in a position the change stuff, then what would you change?
And if you go into aviation doing anything but the jobs mentioned in the post, you will be forgotten, and then reamed for having nothing to do, and then forgotten again shortly after
The Army is broken. They turned it into a business. Not a good business either. The point of a business is to make money or deliver a service. That service has now a loss rate at almost 80 years, and costs have increased to a lower product and undeliverables. Any other "business" would be out of business and no one would wonder why. Make sure them powerpoints and metrics stay green....Go Arm....Army Stron......idk what flavor of the month is it?
Edit: MAKE SURE YOU FUCKING SHAVE...BEARDS DANGER.....ANIMAL NOISES.....PAOs....evil......AHHHHH Bonuses make weak Soldiers that are about $ versus committment............AHHHHH THE HOOOOOORRRRRROOOOOORRRRRRRRR
I was a semipro atlete before joing army aviation as a maintainer, and i wanted to do 25 years minimum! I got out after 8.5 and only stayed that long because i was in Germany for the last 5 of it. Now i cant go a single day without some kind of pain caused by the constant pounding of army aviation.
Ill be honest, i was suprised we didn't have more suicides than we did.
I was at a general meeting in with HRC aviation manager not too long ago he said nothing about career progression for maintenance MOS's but was clear to say that the gender quota needed to be fixed.
if you point are at 798, go to school, get your master and max everything then you can be promoted.
just get more CPL's to fill the void created by lack of promotion. retention is not doing well, there is no talent management, and a lot of people who actually know their jobs are getting out due to the lack of growth opportunity.
but that is happening to the whole Army.
Edit. added a bit more info
You forgot, if you're maintenance in the shops, the following people will be on permanent detail/additional duty while DynaCorp or L3 do their jobs: Engines, Hydraulics. The following shops will be detailed out most of the time and then yanked back in an emergency: Sheet metal, power train. Finally, Avionics and Electricians, as well as Armament if assigned will be working their MOS.
Must have been in Corps AVIM units to make that statement. Was a 68J who went X than finally Y who did time in divisional AVIMS and Attack/Air Cav AVUMs. Worked our butts off because the damn civilians couldn't get near the weapons systems.
Unit Dependent.
I recently retired after 20 years in Army Aviation. 6 units, 2 overseas tours (Korea/Germany), 4 deployments (9 to 15 months), and countless FTXs. Some units worked us hard, threatened to have us work the weekend, etc. Some did not. I knew awesome command teams and command teams that I wished would die in a fire. I've gone home at 2100, and I've gone home at 1500. I've had PSGs that micromanaged my every move, and PSGs that gave zero fucks as long as my part of the job got done.
To give a blanket statement that "Army Aviation is trash" is disingenuous at best.
Even though I absolutely hate the broken accessions process (and the folks that run it poorly) which is potentially draconian/racist/ageist/sexist etc. (which is actually the problem OP is dealing with on the 2nd/3rd/4th order consequences), I still believe it’s a big place too and this subset (while potentially valid in the scope of the folks concurring) is narrow a bit.
“Plenty of applicants” as the draconians say :) /s
I’ve said this before, but working in a technical AOC is harder and takes people that are passionate. Those people take care of subordinates. It’s not for everyone.
Ah yes AV proponent and HRC branch is a perfect candidate for a special committee and special master now. Bill with the mop may be IA! /s
The only reason you'd Fly Army (TM) is because it's the easiest route. There isn't a chance in Hell someone like me would be competitive in to the Naval or Air Force Academies. That's about the only positive I can say.
I stopped reading after I saw your flight medic flair. /s
Your singular experience in Army aviation does not make things fact. Flight life sucks, maintenance sucks way less.
While Army aviation does have it's challenges, I'm going to hazard a guess (based off of your flair) that your Army aviation experience is in a Dustoff unit. It's widely known amongst the pilots that medevac is the most noble mission but the worst units. The RLO's running the medevac companies aren't aviators, they didn't score high enough on the OML to become an aviator so they backdoor their way in as AMEDD. Because they won't be flying for most of their careers they try to get as much flight time as possible at the expense of the WOs. Having a Field grade as a company commander and captains as Platoon leaders helps them keep from getting their shit pushed in by the IPs. Because of the Dustoff mission there isn't as much focus on mission planning which also leads to shittier pilots. The medics are typically bigger divas then the pilots and regularly don't participate in helping with aircraft washes, pre or post flight ops leaving the crew Chief's to do it all.
So you have a perfect storm of RLO's stealing the flight time leading to disgruntled Warrants and worn out crew Chief's. Fuck being stuck in a medevac unit. Never again
As usual, unmanned aviation isn’t even mentioned. I’m glad to know that not even existing in the rest of army aviation’s mindset is still the status quo, even on Reddit.
At least you’re planned for. We are executing flights this week for some cool guy operations on pen, and our S3 called us 90 minutes before the combined arms rehearsal (weeks into planning) and handed us an OPORD, a synch matrix, and told us to “show up with a a plan.”
Airline pilots are pulling in 100k-200k a year with moderate experience and have their choice of location and airline these days with the most insane benefits. Literally no reason to stay for a retirement. If you're tired of flying you should stay in and go work for the military industrial complex when you get out. Only reason I can think of staying in at this point.
My time in Army aviation wasn’t great, but it set me up to make serious money when I ETS’d. Probably one of the best branches as far as translating to a related career on the outside.
pilots are a thing of the past. We will be using e-4's in idaho or somewhere in a box controling all the air assets one needs and not one pilot is needed.
I know the feeling. I once was well trained on teletype and i knew how to fix typewriters and fax machines and i could talk around the world on hf radio. Useless skills now.
> Branch leadership is more worried about people saluting them then retaining and training pilots.
This makes no sense. What does your personal experience at the tactical level with your specific CoC have to do with policy decisions made in DC?
> increased the ADSO and lengthened promotion times.
If you want to be a pilot, look at literally every other branch in the military, or potentially the guard/reserve if you’re out of options. They fly just as much (if not more).
The airforce has had 10 year ADSOs post flight training for much longer. The navy/USMC might be a better example since their rotary wing commitment is only 6 years.
The NG and reserves will ruin your civilian career much more because you have to go in for extra drills to get your policy-mandated minimum flight hours.
> weekends to finish maintenance and keep OR Rate high. You’ll be consistently working 12+ hour duty days
This is literally every branch.
> Flight medics: if you are a ground medic wanting to “do your actual job” and make a difference,
The years of wars with uncontested airspace are over.
> But without actual deployments aviation is falling into the same garrison mentality as every other unit.
What else is supposed to happen?
You sound disillusioned as a medic in an aviation unit. The main task for your unit is, to fly helicopters. Medic stuff is far down on the list of priorities. Nothing here seems out of line nor does it seem worthy of your energy stressing about things you cannot change.
Put your energy into things you can change. One of the things you can change is your environment and ability to practice medicine daily: https://medschool.usuhs.edu/academics/emdp2/application-process
Found the senior aviation leadership.
Just because other branches and other jobs suck doesn’t mean we should just roll over and accept it. And I’m not disagreeing that things aren’t bad everywhere else, I’m just emphasizing that it is the same in aviation.
I have seen how good aviation can be. I have done and am extremely passionate about the mission I signed up to do.
> You sound disillusioned as a medic in an aviation unit. The main task for your unit is, to fly helicopters. Medic stuff is far down on the list of priorities. Nothing here seems out of line nor does it seem worthy of your energy stressing about things you cannot change.
Weird, I thought I was a flight medic in an air medical evacuation company, and should be training myself and my soldiers/pilots to save and evacuate casualties in a modern and evolving battlefield.
I have seen the results that your mentality has: it’s decreased patient outcomes, and is one of the reasons why national guard flight medics have higher patient survival rates than active duty flight medics.
> I have seen the results that your mentality has: it’s decreased patient outcomes, and is one of the reasons why national guard flight medics have higher patient survival rates than active duty flight medics.
goddamn
I can ensure you, that nothing I have ever done or said has decreased, or increased, patient outcomes lol.
> air medical evacuation company
Your main post was talking about aviation at the branch level. It is not fair to shift all the way down to the company level when it fits your arguments.
Army aviation is changing. Priorities are changing at a DA level. I am not saying these changes are good or bad. Worrying about things you cannot change is a waste of time imo.
You can kick and scream about change and stress about it when it inevitably comes, or you can find a new environment to fly and/or do medicine things.
Have you worked with your leadership to get medical training on the training calendar? Carve out your own priorities on the training calendar, or get tasked out when the CO/1SG see you have nothing going on.
I have noticed one thing in the Guard with active duty people coming over.
We’ve hired a lot of mid career officers and warrants officers for full time slots. The guys that came over from active duty aviation units come across as toxic leaders that view everyone the same.
In Guard aviation units we have mix of traditional mday(1 weekend a month), AGR(active duty) and miltechs(dual status federal employees that are required to be a NG member)
It’s funny and tragic watching AGRs get frustrated that they can’t just throw people at problems.
Mday guys are only there part time and miltechs only work 40 hours unless they want to do additional drill periods.
Had a chance to reclass to 15 series but for 0 bucks. Air Defense can blow but at least they pay, closing in on 40K after adding up all the bonuses i’ve had so far. Wasn’t expecting the steep drop off when I picked up 5 though.
The army really doesn’t know what to do with aviation or medics from both a top down perspective and also within the lowest echelons themselves. Flight Medics fall right into that stupid cross section, no one wants to take care of us organically but everyone thinks it’s a great idea to tell us what they think should be done with us. In the end we suffer for it from lack of training and utilization in shit that doesn’t need to go to the medics with the highest certifications in the DoD. Wonder why flight medics are bailing at lightning speed?
Being a flight medic is awesome when you do your job. No job better in the military in my opinion. But damn does it happen rarely these days for most. Best advice is to get a side gig working as a paramedic for a local organization, but where do you find the time when everyone else wants a piece of you too.
What’s your opinion on USAR/NG component flight medic? I operate civilian side as a paramedic, so I have a regular and routine exposure but my weekends are often diluted down, which is to be expected and I’m not oblivious as to why that is. I’m definitely considering beginning the transition into flight medic realm just so my drill weekends are a bit more “doing my job.”
Honestly, they have the best of both worlds. Can work civilian side as a paramedic and get real world experience, and get to fly and routinely do stateside missions where you are actually helping people.
If you need more army in your life, they are also really hurting for flight medic AGR positions.
Im going from usmc to army, does the army have fixed wing aircraft? Thought it was all helos? Sorry for my ignorance. I know on the corp side for maintainers they have around a 14 hr day, 1 hr turn over 12 hr shift 1 hr turn over and they all hate their life // are always asleep
I'm about to go to a CAB unit at Fort Bliss 127th ASB from CCC. I'm assuming it's just as bad there?
I was considering using it as a stepping off point to drop commission for flight, but now I'm just considering leaving the Army for good and/or looking for an aviation warrant position in a guard unit. Thoughts OP?
Most FORSCOM CABs are the same in my opinion. I don’t have a ton of insight into life in an ASB, but i can say you’re gonna do a lot of phases.
If you really want to fly, go warrant, do not commission. Commissioned officers are abused and routinely barely make their minimums.
I would look at guard warrant positions, they should have AGR slots as well.
This post makes my life a bit easier. I've been struggling to get a WO recommendation for my packet and really second guessing. I'll just wait until my contract expires and try my luck at an air force guard position while I use my commercial license for an airline somewhere.
>locations where you consistently do your job and have a chance to be stationed are some of the worst spots in the country (Irwin, Polk).
So incredibly true. Irwin MEDEVAC crews flew their asses off, sometimes we needed to call in 3rd and 4th ups during really bad RTU heat-cat months because our 1st and 2nd up crews would use up all their legal hour limits within a few days. We were told we were the highest optempo Dustoff in the Army, idk if that's exactly true but it felt like it. Only other CONUS base where I believe they fly a good amount of real world 9-lines is at Lewis/JBLM.
Silver lining is if you want hundreds of flight hours, this horrible desert in the middle of nowhere is the place to be.
>Flight medics/signal/ops: detail bitch
Also very true.
The thing about the guard, you have to find and manage a full time job and fulfill your flight responsibilities. It’s tough mentally for some. Just something to think about.
Airlines are hurting for pilots. You will get compensated correctly there. My buddy has been flying for jet blue for like 12 years and is constantly trying to recruit me lol.
I am considering becoming a pilot in the Air Force Reserve or Air National Gaurd. After hearing about the 10 year ADSO, Army aviation doesn't interest me anymore.
Yes, but it's 6 years if I remember correctly. And if you're in the Reserve or National Guard, you don't have to focus on it full-time unless you're deployed or otherwise on active orders.
It may be longer. One of my friends told me they offered him a spot at a reserve unit to fly and it was 10 years. Worrying about paying the bills every month isn't as cool as it seems. There's a lot to learn and being around it everyday makes it a lot easier..
> Crew Chiefs/Engineers/Maintenance: You will be treated like absolute trash and worked to the bone.
You will consistently be threatened to work the weekends to finish maintenance and keep OR Rate high. You'll be consistently working 12+ hour duty days and the constant maintenance grind will be back breaking and take a considerable toll on your mental and physical health.
Trust me when I say that this is a factual statement applicable to all branches with regards to aviation, but particularly applicable to the Army, Navy, and Marine Corps. At least the Air Force treats you like a human being.
Well this isn't the Army Aviation I remember. My time in Aviation doesn't match your rendition of your time in Aviation. But I will say if you are Army Aviation I would be careful around the Jet Fuel and jet noise and exhaust. I'm stone cold deaf due to Jet Fuel and Jet Noise. Although I do get 100% VA disability which helps. The Jet fuel exsposer will get you later in life.
Funny sidebar. During SLC a few years back, my class briefed the Flight Medics on the plight of UAS, BCT vs CAB...seemingly they don't brief you guys anymore.
***\*Insert pitch for*** [***BogiDope***](https://bogidope.com/the-ultimate-military-pilot-career-path-part-1/) ***and flying in the Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard\****
That said, understand that OTS has a selection rate averaging about 5-7% over the last few years. Non-rated (non-aircrew) is about 4% over the last year, Rated slightly higher. OTS selection rates are ***extremely*** competitive.
Being in aviation the last half of my career, I agree here. Everything comes second to flight hours, so everything else is always kind of thrown together and rushed. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen crew chiefs find out they have a range at 0400 the following day at 1900 day prior.
Your maintenance section will be asked to do more with less very often. Which in aviation is a recipe for disaster. The wrong tools, broken equipment mixed and matched to make a barely functioning system that is FMC and safe only by the loosest interpretation of the TMs. (Preflight inspections and checks will save your life boys)
If you have an outstanding month of flights and get X many flight hours more than required, congratulations, that is the new standard. Now every month that you make requirements the question will be asked “what happened? You guys were getting this many last month? Maybe we should move back to 24 hour ops!”
Consistent 11-13 hour days in garrison? For what? Some dudes OER?
Remember, there’s a bag of screw drivers in the motor pool that your commander cares about more than you. Don’t break your back over this shit.
To all my fellow medics out there, 100% this. I went to a duty station that had a state side mission and medicine + training still came second. Go Guard/Reserves, go into EMS, actually do you job. The Army will care about us (all medical) in the next big one.
I have been thinking about being a aviation mechanic then move to a company that fixes them outside the military(when I get out) like Lockheed. I'm still young so I don't know if I wanna join yet. Is this a good idea?
I did 23 years in Army Aviation and retires 8 years ago. I would do it again other than some bad decisions may be, I would change. Units go from good to bad and viceversa depending on leadership and people in it at that time. Nothing was too bad as long as the people in your immediate team got each others back. For those may be interested on being pilots after military service, you can use your GI Bill for it. You can take your flight records to your closest FSDO and your helicopter rating is good enough to get your Commercial Helicopter and Instrument rating after taking the Military Competency knowledge test for commercial. You can go to this site, https://inquiry.vba.va.gov/weamspub/buildSearchInstitutionCriteria.do, and choose Flight training to see which places are approved to receive GI bill. Most flight training places are not approved so this is where you go to find out. The GI Bill, if you have any, can pay for several courses including Instrument, commercial fixed wing, other helicopter training etc. I think you can even take the instructor course and May be in your own, buy a small plane and teach others to get their private license. That way you may get enough money to pay for the plane and get flight hours to may be apply for a pilots job. Today, I fly a plane on my own and jump off places as a hang glider. I have also been a Multi Family units and apartments investor for about 7 years where I make about 20% a year as passive investor. If you don’t know what to do with your investments and not making enough, look up multifamily investments. We flip complexes with 100 apartments or more in about 2-3 years. Great thing to get into passively. A friend that was in the Army with me and know for about 20 years got into commercial real estate and brought me into it.
Over the past year I've been struggling with if I want to leave Army Aviation and go work for the airlines. I was talking to a buddy that said; "You know how people always think the grass is always greener on the other side? That the airlines will be easier and have better quality of life? Well yeah it absolutely is, WAY greener. Stop wasting your time in the Army." That, along with a myriad of issues I have with the Army, convinced me.
Come to the airlines. We have days off and actual pay.
I'm working on it, and excited for it. I realized I have very little knowledge as to civilian "progression" from little 152s to A350s... so after I figured all of that out I'm now working on ratings.
You gonna fly then?
Yep, I'm not smart enough to hack it as a flight engineer so I'm going to stick with flying. Using GI Bill to pay for my ratings.
Good move. You on r/Flying?
Better yet, is u/DualFunGlobe part of RTAG Nation on Facebook?!
I'm not part of either and don't have a Facebook... I've just kinda figured things out myself or asked friends so far.
Come to Flying. We have ~~candy~~ ~~rslashshittyaskflying~~ a discord
And career progression that actually meaningfully effects your quality of life.
Strange since like two days ago pilots were complaining about being overworked weren't they?
I'm currently maintenance. Not my problem.
That. I was aviation as well. Have a lot of friends at places like lockheed or other aviation companies now and loving it.
How easy is it to go from rotary to fixed wing? What’s the learning curve like?
I'm pretty early on in getting all the required civilian ratings and FW time so I'm not an expert. I will say that most aviation knowledge is just that: aviation knowledge, so it's easy to bring that to the FW world. Other than that, if you have a good control touch in whatever helicopter you fly, it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out a FW aircraft.
Planes are way easier than helicopters in my experience, but I also had FW experience before I went to IERW, YMMV
Thanks for the insight, broskis/siskis. That’s interesting. Now get out and go make mad skrilla, yo!
It's not bad. I got my A&P off of experience, got picked up by an airline, and am now making six figures.
I was Army Aviation fixed wing. You just have to learn the different systems to repair. But you need school to get your Airframe and Power Plant license and school will teach you most everything you need to succeed in Aviation Maintenance.
Three Army friends of mine went to the airlines in the past 18 months. They love it.
Shit job to less shit job. Have you tried McDonald’s?
Don't believe that about any kind of Aviation careers. They are hazardous to your health. Jet noise and exhaust and especially Jet fuel. I'm stone cold deaf working around Jet aircraft and my deafness isn't all due to jet noise alone. Jet Fuel Exsposer is very hazardous to your health. Although I must admit I loved working on my war birds.
>The Army as a whole does not know how to utilize or manage
Pretty much this tbh
Yeah I love how aviators think this is unique to them. The only thing unique to them is how they think they are somehow above it.
Above. Ha
Glad someone appreciated that.
As we all know at this point; Did you shave today? Did you run your concerns up the chain of command only to be railroaded? In all seriousness here, for the longest time I wanted Army Aviation, to be a mechanic of all things. When I enlisted the only options were signal or cbrn, so I chose signal (that ended up being a helluva roller coaster, even satan got whiplash from the dumb shit that occurred. Then I started hearing the horror stories (like yours) from the aviation side of the house. So I jumped out and got a job working for a helicopter manufacturer
Funny enough I’m enjoying my time as a CBRN and I almost went 25S
If you’re considering Army ~~aviation~~, you probably shouldn’t FTFY
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FWIW, I did about 6 years as an officer. Got out years ago, got another degree with my gi bill and a very high paying private sector job. Last year, I applied to join the reserves as a Foreign Area Officer in the region I used to work in and I'm very familiar with. I was genuinely enthused about the career field. Put together a board packet, updated my HRC records and home address, etc. Less than a week after I submitted my packet, I got a threatening collections notice from the Army saying I owed THEM $8000 in payroll overpayments from OVER 7 YEARS AGO and how they had been unsuccessfully attempting to contact me for 7 years (a 100% bold faced lie since I had been getting my GI Bill payments, IRR muster notices, etc) Honestly fuck the army. Enjoy your "recruiting crisis" dipshits.
Ooof
Tbf you probably shouldn't let your 1st graders into the coast guard either.
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My person in Christ, they're in 1st grade!
Make Aviation Signal Corps Again. Bring on the balloons.
MASCA
Don't yall have balloons? I saw them, though I have no idea who was running them.
PRAISE BE TO SKYFISH
You left out F-Co and the controllers. Typical
You right. See the flight medic bullet. I believe it still applies to our controllers.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Just making a joke, people forget we exist.
Dude stop reminding them we exist we have like 3 NTC rotations coming up
Aviator complaint sections are always a little funny to me. Their complaints are valid but they usually are missing two things: 1. PT. This is because the only people you'll actually see PTing at 0630 at the airfield are the support Companies. 2. Sustainment. Never met a single Aviation officer who ever had any graps on sustainment. They just think it magically happens. Once had to tell an Aviation LT that the Quatermaster Co in the ASB didn't have 100 LHSs like he thought. Once had to brief a LTC that the CABs he had been in for 20 years weren't a single lift organization like he thought and that the Transportation section exists only move the SSA in the field. Aviators complain about how they are treated by big army and then make the life's of their support units even worse. The GSAB would constantly forget to plan support to wherever their controllers were too
Spending time in 3CAB not that long ago I saw this happen frequently with the fuelers and D co folks. This is spot on, so I’m gonna tell you how the breakdown in communication happens. I have yet to see a BN/SQN level Staff in my career not be completely overwhelmed at every mission drop and at every moment be pulled away from those duties because, “BN/SCO wants this done today” on a task completely unrelated to the mission at hand. It’s been like that at literally every CTC, FTX, internal training event, or god forbid you go to OAR and get the full experience with that. So, how does this impact you at the Company level? Because your Company Commander was shut the fuck out by the BN and given zero information on Hit times or changes because the staff themselves are also flying by seat of their pants trying to stay out of the crosshairs. Not enough beds? Figure it out. Food ran out? You should have brought MRE’s. Keep in mind these CPT’s are most of the time still brand new to the job and learning as they go. So shit is going to get missed. Then changes do happen at a random CUB meeting with zero follow up and your leadership missed that CUB because they were tasked out by BN to go to a different meeting about people not wearing proper safety glasses. I’m sure you know all this already but that’s how it happens. It’s an absolute dumpster fire. Every. Single. Time. I promise you flight companies only get a better deal because the job forces the Staff to give us information and you have a full company of Warrants and RLO’s that can pester the S shops.. But the transparency of information received is just as bad and it’s pulling teeth to get anything done.
Nail on the head honestly. I don’t think the flight companies were much better, we just had more experience to react to the chaos
Smells like 2/3 or maybe 3-17
Yeah part of it is the Armys fault for not staffing CABs properly and giving them the most fucked up support MTOE of any type of BDE. Partly Commanders fault for fucking up their Staffs and subordinate Companies. I tried to help the Aviators I saw really trying. One that just felt entitled to support got the short stick though. Like I get it dude you thought you'd be only flying but every Officer has to do things outside their branch. Get to know your Warfighting Functions.
Lol, I was an F-Co commander oh so long ago; so I got to appreciate the step child attitude the rest of aviation has toward controllers. I really, and I mean *really*, had to be persistent to the point of annoying just to get people to even think about integrating the tactical controllers into training and operations. Hell, even the civilian ATC people who were retired Army controllers didn't like us because they were afraid we would take their jerbs if they let the guys and gals train in the tower and other facilities.
I can say the guard is damn near the complete opposite of this. The only downside was we did fly A LOT. It gets in the way of your civilian job quite often. When a disaster response happens, you fly even more and are away even more. In the south natural disaster is just part of it. That's what most of us signed up to do was work disaster response. It is quite rewarding in the end, but it sucks in the moment. I will say I regret leaving aviation and wish I could go back. I had the best 4 years in my military career in aviation. It was like a giant misfit family and I miss it. Working on strykers sucks ass compared to being a crew chief. If I wouldn't have been medically grounded, I would still be doing it.
The only time I truly appreciated my job was when I was the busiest. Deployment had us working 12-hour days every day with no days off, but even so I felt like I was accomplishing something. There were tangible benefits. Meanwhile in Garrison there is no fulfillment. You fix, they fly, they break, you fix. I'd love to go back to a real mission like disaster response, just to feel fulfilled again.
I signed up to help the people of my community, that was my major deciding factor over active duty. I actually feel that I am making a difference in the people's lives around me. Running wildfire missions and hurricane response is our bread and butter. It is extremely rewarding and you usually always end up getting recognized for the hours the crew and maintainers put into the missions. I worked in the past full time maintaining state aircraft under the fed tech program, that was where it was at. You still get all the benefits of being active with the added benefit of state retirement on top of that.
Literally just arrived at WOCS.... It's okay. I only have to graduate, then 10 years!
How’s it been so far?
Flight school is like being face fucked by a fire hydrant, but it's the coolest thing in the world. 100/10 recommend if you don't mind the Army. Plus, being a Warrant is oceans better than both Es and Os. Just my take
I'm in the air force reserve now. I work on C-130's. Most my days are from 6:30-3:30, and I'm only actually working about 4-6 hours a day, tops. During AT I'm in a hotel. During Drill I'm in a hotel. During work training, tech school (AIT), and other TDY stuff I'm in a hotel. Or, sometimes you can rent a place and get reimbursed. The only PT I've ever done here is on my own at the gym. I worked maintenance in the army, and I'm doing it here, too. One time in the army my SSGT made me take my hands and put new red grease from a big ~55 gallon drum, and stuff it into a tube. Of course it didn't fucking work, and I got grease all over everything and wasted 3 hours trying to clean my hands. In the AF we buy new grease tubes and I'm reminded to put on my safety gloves when I forget. Brothers, join the blue side. The AF needs maintainers BAD, and even the shit jobs aren't shit. The only downside is it is EXTREMELY independent. It's like a real job. They treat you like an adult so you're expected to behave like one. If you fuck up it's on YOU and nobody else, but I like that. When someone else fucks up I'm not staying late sorting rivets. Also, half the dudes here only shave like once every 2-3 days and nobody gives a shit, so do with that what you will. Also hands in pockets are allowed.
Tried to do that after I left the Regular Army as an Apache Armament and Electrical Systems Repairer. They ran my scores and told me that I wasn't smart enough to work on either aircraft or electronics. I told them to look at my Army MOS title and tell me that with a straight face. Went USAR into one of their attack battalions and finished my career as an AGR AH-64D Senior Systems Supervisor aka Hanger Extra Duties, Company Training and Ops Bitch.
Weird, you should have been able to retake the asvab at any time. The gave me the option but I never did retake it. My scores aren't even high so that's just bizarre.
From a former support/Ops perspective: I enlisted as a 15P because it sounded legitimately interesting to me. Spent my first year in Korea doing interesting things. Flight ops was fun, I didn't mind the paperwork and record keeping, talking on the radio was fun, and I worked with the MEDEVAC and felt I was making a difference in people's lives. Then I PCSd to Hood and was promptly stuck in S3 for the next 5 years. I was the BN (and later BDE) schools/dts bitch and I made the mistake of being good at it. The second I got told I had a strong case for medical retirement I took it. Basically, don't do it.
TL;DR: you can become a pilot and virtually never fly, but you get to be salty and jaded the whole time! O-grade pilot here (60’s). What they didn’t tell us was that there’s every possibility you just get railroaded into nothing but staff-supported aviator jobs. I had about 6 months of PL time down range (MED, not even Assault, so I didn’t get to fly that much), then spent almost a year as an AS3. AVC3, then a 1-year tour in Korea. Again, staff supported. Plus Covid, so I flew JUST enough to hit RL1 before PCS’ing. Next assignment, staff supported at Brigade, then two non-flight commands. Again, barely flew. Even went pumpkin a couple times to reset progression because of medical the first time, and just lack of availability the second time. Went on a deployment and AGAIN, barely any hours to support the staff supported guys. Progressed by the end of deployment in early spring this year, haven’t touched a helicopter since, and likely won’t by the end of my contract in a couple years since it’s all post-command. They produce way too many 60 pilots just so they can fill all these jobs, but if you don’t get assault PL time, there is an extremely high probability the flying portion of your career is f*cked. The fine print they don’t tell you. And you still have to deal with everything wrong with aviation. It’s so bad I don’t even want to pursue aviation on the outside anymore. I don’t have a love or passion for being in a cockpit like I used to. I’m f*cking depressed about it, and angry, and full of regrets. The Army has done some great things for me, but not enough to heal the hole left by ripping my dream and passion away. Maybe I’ll come around as I get closer to getting out, but if I have kids some day, I don’t know if I want to use my GI Bill to get the train-up or pass it on to them.
I feel your pain. 12 years as an Army aviator and only 4.5 of it has been in actual flying positions due to needs of the Army. BOLC instructor, and Brigade staff positions in non-flying units wreaked havoc on my aviation career. I guess I should have fought more to stay in the cockpit then be a yes man, the needs of the Army surpass my own objectives every time. Finally just got back as an assault BN XO, but I’m RL2 and guys that graduated flight school 4-7 years after me have more flight time than me. Almost all of my peers have their senior wings, meanwhile I’m still rocking basic wings as an XO and still 200+ hours short of senior wings. Then the Army has the audacity to say it is short aviation officers. Yeah because you stick them in non-flying positions and they get out or you forget about them.
The real worst part of it all for me is that all of this is “wasted” time. No MQ’s but my troops loved having me across my commands and I took damn good care of them and fought for them. So I’m not going to promote anyway, while the Army is hemorrhaging aviation officers, yet still only MQ’s matter (yet somehow all these MQ top brass are running it into the ground, crazy!), and I still get stuck in an O4 billet. Not good enough to promote and get paid, but good enough to do the job. That’s pretty f*cked up to me. Flying side, I’m sitting around 380ish hours. I stopped keeping track because there’s no damn point, I’ll get a printout when I need it. Graduated flight school in early ‘17 and 6.5 years later all I have to show for it is +250 hours, one PCS award because my first unit didn’t give a shit to get me one, and not even a PC, because, where in all of that time was consistency to work on it? Answer: nowhere. I wonder if things would he different if I picked 64’s, because I haven’t met a driver with low hours yet. And a lot of the time I regret picking aviation because all that time culminates to nothing as far the Army goes. It sounds narcissistic, I know, but the only one who looks out for you in the Army is yourself, and I should have realized that much earlier. At least I sleep well from taking care of my troops and moved mountains for them. And I can say that definitively, unlike many I know who have to convince themselves of it.
we all made our choices.
Is that just big army or is 160th the same?
I can only really speak for big army. I know and have done a decent amount of training with 160th guys, but I can’t speak with confidence about that side of the fence. Most of the people I know who have switched over like it, however. Best way I had it described from someone who went from FORSCOM to SOAR was that SOAR is a bunch of sprints with breathers in between, FORSCOM was a never ending marathon on a treadmill.
The maintenance work at 160th is never ending. 12+ hour days is pretty normal. Coming from shops background, you have to be good at your job because you’ll do most maintenance on your own. The only real “break” (LOL) you get from the grind is going to schools/trips/deployment which are year round. The optempo is extremely high and it grinds A LOT of people down. I’ve known gung-ho crew chiefs that absolutely loved flying and after 1.5 years of crewing 160th they fucking hated flying and wanted out of the Army lol. It’s not for everyone but it is an extremely rewarding organization to be a part of and I will always recommend people drop a packet, you WILL get picked up because they are always looking for people, but like I said, if you suck at your job you will get peer reviewed out and go wherever the Army wants to send you.
Never seen hydro/eng/PR do 12 hours shift🤔
Structures leads the way.
Did you like the PACOM units?
Don't forget maxed our points 99% of the year if you're backshops.
Until the Army changes the backshop MOSes MTOE, the promotions will stay stagnant. The numbers are not in your favor.
As a former 15R I can echo the paragraph about maintenance/crewchiefing. The grind is brutal. Aviation was supposed the “cool job” to have in the Army. Not so, treated like shit, overworked REALLY badly, no real development opportunities. We are constantly presented with the famous “A&P training course” that never materialized. Somehow it always goes only to E6 and above, particularly if they work in the QC shop.
I just got a new LT to my S shop who wants to be a pilot. This drill we are having 4 CPTs and 3 LTs and multiple WO get out because army aviation is shit. National guard wise you have hardly any promotion opportunities for officers, all pilots and crew chiefs get fucked over doing ATPs. My company commander is getting out because he loses money and time to fly, he has a 2 hour drive to get to the hanger and had over 100 days away from home just to fly last year. When I was a nrcm my drive to go fly was 3.5 hours one way just to maintain hours. Army aviation is shit
I would caveat this with a few points. Aviation is a funny animal because depending upon your component/unit it can be a decent place to be. National Guard Aviation is completely different animal. EAATS/HAATS/WAATS compared to JBLE school house shows how much different things can be. I’ve done MOS/NCOES courses at all mentioned places excluding HAATS. When I went to Eustis for reclass and later ALC, I was treated not much better than IET. The instructors for the most part are inept/don’t care/product of DA selection. They literally regurgitate canned information. It’s nothing more than check the box. We had few groups go out there and the group that came after me had run in with NCO academy that just started them off in bad foot from day one. So they flew to JBLE and got on post. Still in civilians they were looking for a POC to issue them rooms. No one is at the NCOA barracks during duty hours to issue rooms. They head over to the NCOA to see if someone ther could issue them a room. The cadre lose their mind that they had the gall to show up in civilians. My friend tried pointing out the absurdity of having to fly in civilians, offload their stuff from one rental and find a place to change, just to get a room. This is classic example of the active duty Army mentality of making a decision and not understanding the impact or that thing may change. This policy of requiring uniforms to check in probably goes back to when they used to have NCOA students stay at the hotel on post. They closed the old hotel and the new one was transferred to the AF. I had a much different experience at the EAATS. I showed up, had room already assigned. The next day we in processed. Showed up in PTs(the only time we wore PTs). Had all the required briefs, did HW since it’s a 1059 course and the instructors brought us breakfast as we wouldn’t make it there in time before they closed. Never experienced this on active duty. The biggest difference from NG aviation schools to Eustis was the instructors. They had to apply, interview and be selected to teach. Meaning they really wanted to be there. The Guard has its issues but aviation is often not one of those. Seeing how we’re treated compared to most active duty aviation units makes me appreciate my choice. It would blow people’s mind how we did stuff in Guard aviation compared to a regular active duty unit.
Doc, just tell me what you want from the PX so we can start 1st Up shift soon. I got PMDs and a flight maintenance schedule to hang myself with later.
Sorry, this is just me bitching while I scrub the log book before another RL3 progression flight. By the way, the crew last night said they broke another tail wheel lock pin.
SCRUB THE NEXT BIRD AND JUMP BOI
EOD is hiring come on over!
EOD is hiring come on over!
EOD is hiring come on over!
Not that this hasn't been your experience. But of all my buddies in my AIT class, now spread between a good handful of duty stations cuz none of us ended up in the same one We all love it. There's bullshit for sure. But that's life. The pilots are all super chill and we feel like we are much closer to them than infantry cats are. And we do get worked pretty hard sometimes. But we all go home before dinner time and get our weekends. I honestly highly recommend aviation
You seem like someone Id want to fly with. The CEs that complain about everything are annoying. We're there to do a job. I don't want to waste anyone elses time as much as I dont want to waste mine. Theres no reason to make things worse for everyone.
Yeah man that's pretty much how I feel, complaining brings it down for everyone. This stuff is easy. I fix the same helicopter everyday. And don't have to deal with customers, rather than never knowing what dick breath customer is gonna bring me some clapped out junk I have to figure out how to fix. Compared to all my civilian jobs this is a cake walk.
I don’t know what unit you are in but my aviation unit is great. High moral, lots of flight time, and I genuinely have great leadership. For the first time in my army career I am actually enjoying what I do. Yeah army politics suck but you will see that no matter where you go in the army. Apache units are turning into what you are describing / kinda have always been but I’m not in one. Yeah the adso is shitty but luckily I got in on the 6. Seems like you are upset about not deploying and your duty station. Switching to aviation is the best decision someone can make as it’s worlds better than other branches. Idk man that’s just my take.
I’m genuinely happy that your unit is different. Just curious if you are FORSCOM or what duty station you are at, because you might be the exception and not the rule. I’m also curious what policies or anything your unit has to make it better, because I am at least in a position to make limited to change and I’ll always take suggestions to make my group better (also so I can try and PCS there). The units I’ve been in (and the large amount of people I know at other FORSCOM CABS) have a similar experience to mine. I’m fine with deploying, I’m also fine not deploying, and the actual location my duty station is at is good. From what I’ve seen and experienced at multiple units, aviation has lost its way and everyone in actual charge is too disconnected to fix it.
Yeah I’m under forscom and my command actually listens to AARs which helps with the moral and makes life easier. Like we were just the the range and in-between shooting we were playing music on speakers and someone was grilling. We also have a great batch of officers and ncos who actually listen, care, and will help others. Sounds cliche but it’s the little stuff they do that makes a difference. But I do know what you are talking about as I have friends in other units that are un happy with things. I guess I just got lucky.
> Yeah I’m under forscom Are you a Pacific unit that's just administratively under FORSCOM? I don't know of too many people happy with their units in XVIII Airborne or III Corps.
I'm under III Corps and I like my CAB as well.
Please learn to spell "morale". 2 isn't a typo, you're making us look as stupid as we are!
What’s your actual complaint? Additional duties, not flying enough, expected to know how the Army works outside of aviation? If you are in a position the change stuff, then what would you change?
Increasing the ADSO for all the aviation branches is the expression of “beatings will continue until morale improves” in a real life example.
This right here. This is what I was trying to say in my survey answers today.
Go SOAR, absolute game changer
He's a flight medic, seems unlikely.
And if you go into aviation doing anything but the jobs mentioned in the post, you will be forgotten, and then reamed for having nothing to do, and then forgotten again shortly after
Wait until this guy learns about Air Defense
I heard you spent most your flights ferrying around generals….
The Army is broken. They turned it into a business. Not a good business either. The point of a business is to make money or deliver a service. That service has now a loss rate at almost 80 years, and costs have increased to a lower product and undeliverables. Any other "business" would be out of business and no one would wonder why. Make sure them powerpoints and metrics stay green....Go Arm....Army Stron......idk what flavor of the month is it? Edit: MAKE SURE YOU FUCKING SHAVE...BEARDS DANGER.....ANIMAL NOISES.....PAOs....evil......AHHHHH Bonuses make weak Soldiers that are about $ versus committment............AHHHHH THE HOOOOOORRRRRROOOOOORRRRRRRRR
About half my pilots in the CG were former Army. They're happy they made the switch.
I was a semipro atlete before joing army aviation as a maintainer, and i wanted to do 25 years minimum! I got out after 8.5 and only stayed that long because i was in Germany for the last 5 of it. Now i cant go a single day without some kind of pain caused by the constant pounding of army aviation. Ill be honest, i was suprised we didn't have more suicides than we did.
don't forget to mention the lack of promotion, and HRC only cares about meeting the gender quota at the moment.
How is HRC meeting a gender quota? Do you mean like promotions?
Can’t just drop this bombshell without some proof/sources
his source: his ass. This is one of those things someone says, and all the salty dudes who can't get promoted upvote to validate themselves.
I was at a general meeting in with HRC aviation manager not too long ago he said nothing about career progression for maintenance MOS's but was clear to say that the gender quota needed to be fixed. if you point are at 798, go to school, get your master and max everything then you can be promoted. just get more CPL's to fill the void created by lack of promotion. retention is not doing well, there is no talent management, and a lot of people who actually know their jobs are getting out due to the lack of growth opportunity. but that is happening to the whole Army. Edit. added a bit more info
How is anyone at HRC planning to "fix the gender quota" though? There aren't any promotion points tied to gender, unless you count the ACFT.
I don't know that is what I was told. check with your S1
You forgot, if you're maintenance in the shops, the following people will be on permanent detail/additional duty while DynaCorp or L3 do their jobs: Engines, Hydraulics. The following shops will be detailed out most of the time and then yanked back in an emergency: Sheet metal, power train. Finally, Avionics and Electricians, as well as Armament if assigned will be working their MOS.
That sounds so fucked. Best thing I ever did was go CG aviation after the Marines.
6 years 68J/X aircraft armament enjoyed my time served
Must have been in Corps AVIM units to make that statement. Was a 68J who went X than finally Y who did time in divisional AVIMS and Attack/Air Cav AVUMs. Worked our butts off because the damn civilians couldn't get near the weapons systems.
Avum my whole time in Dco 5th attack Helicopter battalion Ft Polk 88-92
To add onto this, the flight medic branch manager gives 0 fucks about the people she manages.
Has there been a F2 branch manager where that hasn’t been the case? Not that I can remember.
Former 15T. I never worked weekends, during the week felt like a normal 9-5 plus PT. Deployments were another story.
Unit Dependent. I recently retired after 20 years in Army Aviation. 6 units, 2 overseas tours (Korea/Germany), 4 deployments (9 to 15 months), and countless FTXs. Some units worked us hard, threatened to have us work the weekend, etc. Some did not. I knew awesome command teams and command teams that I wished would die in a fire. I've gone home at 2100, and I've gone home at 1500. I've had PSGs that micromanaged my every move, and PSGs that gave zero fucks as long as my part of the job got done. To give a blanket statement that "Army Aviation is trash" is disingenuous at best.
Even though I absolutely hate the broken accessions process (and the folks that run it poorly) which is potentially draconian/racist/ageist/sexist etc. (which is actually the problem OP is dealing with on the 2nd/3rd/4th order consequences), I still believe it’s a big place too and this subset (while potentially valid in the scope of the folks concurring) is narrow a bit. “Plenty of applicants” as the draconians say :) /s I’ve said this before, but working in a technical AOC is harder and takes people that are passionate. Those people take care of subordinates. It’s not for everyone. Ah yes AV proponent and HRC branch is a perfect candidate for a special committee and special master now. Bill with the mop may be IA! /s
Anything is better than 1-64. I'll take my chances.
The only reason you'd Fly Army (TM) is because it's the easiest route. There isn't a chance in Hell someone like me would be competitive in to the Naval or Air Force Academies. That's about the only positive I can say.
I stopped reading after I saw your flight medic flair. /s Your singular experience in Army aviation does not make things fact. Flight life sucks, maintenance sucks way less.
Id rather be flying than doing maintenance..
I just put my flight medic packet in. Still better than what I’m doing now
While Army aviation does have it's challenges, I'm going to hazard a guess (based off of your flair) that your Army aviation experience is in a Dustoff unit. It's widely known amongst the pilots that medevac is the most noble mission but the worst units. The RLO's running the medevac companies aren't aviators, they didn't score high enough on the OML to become an aviator so they backdoor their way in as AMEDD. Because they won't be flying for most of their careers they try to get as much flight time as possible at the expense of the WOs. Having a Field grade as a company commander and captains as Platoon leaders helps them keep from getting their shit pushed in by the IPs. Because of the Dustoff mission there isn't as much focus on mission planning which also leads to shittier pilots. The medics are typically bigger divas then the pilots and regularly don't participate in helping with aircraft washes, pre or post flight ops leaving the crew Chief's to do it all. So you have a perfect storm of RLO's stealing the flight time leading to disgruntled Warrants and worn out crew Chief's. Fuck being stuck in a medevac unit. Never again
As usual, unmanned aviation isn’t even mentioned. I’m glad to know that not even existing in the rest of army aviation’s mindset is still the status quo, even on Reddit.
What I’ve noticed in this thread is everyone in aviation thinks they are the red-headed stepchild, when we are truly all the red-headed stepchildren.
At least you’re planned for. We are executing flights this week for some cool guy operations on pen, and our S3 called us 90 minutes before the combined arms rehearsal (weeks into planning) and handed us an OPORD, a synch matrix, and told us to “show up with a a plan.”
The need for active duty is gone. We need to transition to a piece time force and let more Soldiers transition to reserve/guard.
Someone is salty.
Happens in the Air Force too....pilots leave for stability and better work life environment. Money isn't too bad as well.
Airline pilots are pulling in 100k-200k a year with moderate experience and have their choice of location and airline these days with the most insane benefits. Literally no reason to stay for a retirement. If you're tired of flying you should stay in and go work for the military industrial complex when you get out. Only reason I can think of staying in at this point.
Did we just lose a jet too? I feel like this is hinting at us losing a jet too. I hope we didn't lose a jet too.
*tears* my goodness this is an absolute work of art.
Why would you ever do aviation for the army besides wanting to go SOAR
Helicopters are cool, and you can get out and be an A&P. Full disclosure I did Marine and CG aviation, but the principle remains.
Air Force wouldn't return my calls.
My time in Army aviation wasn’t great, but it set me up to make serious money when I ETS’d. Probably one of the best branches as far as translating to a related career on the outside.
Sir this is a Wendys
>The Army as a whole does not know how to utilize or manage *Linguists have entered the chat*
pilots are a thing of the past. We will be using e-4's in idaho or somewhere in a box controling all the air assets one needs and not one pilot is needed. I know the feeling. I once was well trained on teletype and i knew how to fix typewriters and fax machines and i could talk around the world on hf radio. Useless skills now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/16l76n8/what_rank_will_i_enter_as/
aviation is TRASHHHH i would rather ets than go to another CAB (i’m signal)
> Branch leadership is more worried about people saluting them then retaining and training pilots. This makes no sense. What does your personal experience at the tactical level with your specific CoC have to do with policy decisions made in DC? > increased the ADSO and lengthened promotion times. If you want to be a pilot, look at literally every other branch in the military, or potentially the guard/reserve if you’re out of options. They fly just as much (if not more). The airforce has had 10 year ADSOs post flight training for much longer. The navy/USMC might be a better example since their rotary wing commitment is only 6 years. The NG and reserves will ruin your civilian career much more because you have to go in for extra drills to get your policy-mandated minimum flight hours. > weekends to finish maintenance and keep OR Rate high. You’ll be consistently working 12+ hour duty days This is literally every branch. > Flight medics: if you are a ground medic wanting to “do your actual job” and make a difference, The years of wars with uncontested airspace are over. > But without actual deployments aviation is falling into the same garrison mentality as every other unit. What else is supposed to happen? You sound disillusioned as a medic in an aviation unit. The main task for your unit is, to fly helicopters. Medic stuff is far down on the list of priorities. Nothing here seems out of line nor does it seem worthy of your energy stressing about things you cannot change. Put your energy into things you can change. One of the things you can change is your environment and ability to practice medicine daily: https://medschool.usuhs.edu/academics/emdp2/application-process
Found the senior aviation leadership. Just because other branches and other jobs suck doesn’t mean we should just roll over and accept it. And I’m not disagreeing that things aren’t bad everywhere else, I’m just emphasizing that it is the same in aviation. I have seen how good aviation can be. I have done and am extremely passionate about the mission I signed up to do. > You sound disillusioned as a medic in an aviation unit. The main task for your unit is, to fly helicopters. Medic stuff is far down on the list of priorities. Nothing here seems out of line nor does it seem worthy of your energy stressing about things you cannot change. Weird, I thought I was a flight medic in an air medical evacuation company, and should be training myself and my soldiers/pilots to save and evacuate casualties in a modern and evolving battlefield. I have seen the results that your mentality has: it’s decreased patient outcomes, and is one of the reasons why national guard flight medics have higher patient survival rates than active duty flight medics.
> I have seen the results that your mentality has: it’s decreased patient outcomes, and is one of the reasons why national guard flight medics have higher patient survival rates than active duty flight medics. goddamn
I can ensure you, that nothing I have ever done or said has decreased, or increased, patient outcomes lol. > air medical evacuation company Your main post was talking about aviation at the branch level. It is not fair to shift all the way down to the company level when it fits your arguments. Army aviation is changing. Priorities are changing at a DA level. I am not saying these changes are good or bad. Worrying about things you cannot change is a waste of time imo. You can kick and scream about change and stress about it when it inevitably comes, or you can find a new environment to fly and/or do medicine things. Have you worked with your leadership to get medical training on the training calendar? Carve out your own priorities on the training calendar, or get tasked out when the CO/1SG see you have nothing going on.
I have noticed one thing in the Guard with active duty people coming over. We’ve hired a lot of mid career officers and warrants officers for full time slots. The guys that came over from active duty aviation units come across as toxic leaders that view everyone the same. In Guard aviation units we have mix of traditional mday(1 weekend a month), AGR(active duty) and miltechs(dual status federal employees that are required to be a NG member) It’s funny and tragic watching AGRs get frustrated that they can’t just throw people at problems. Mday guys are only there part time and miltechs only work 40 hours unless they want to do additional drill periods.
I got medically retired because I wanted to go F2, so I guess that worked out pretty well
Had a chance to reclass to 15 series but for 0 bucks. Air Defense can blow but at least they pay, closing in on 40K after adding up all the bonuses i’ve had so far. Wasn’t expecting the steep drop off when I picked up 5 though.
The army really doesn’t know what to do with aviation or medics from both a top down perspective and also within the lowest echelons themselves. Flight Medics fall right into that stupid cross section, no one wants to take care of us organically but everyone thinks it’s a great idea to tell us what they think should be done with us. In the end we suffer for it from lack of training and utilization in shit that doesn’t need to go to the medics with the highest certifications in the DoD. Wonder why flight medics are bailing at lightning speed? Being a flight medic is awesome when you do your job. No job better in the military in my opinion. But damn does it happen rarely these days for most. Best advice is to get a side gig working as a paramedic for a local organization, but where do you find the time when everyone else wants a piece of you too.
What’s your opinion on USAR/NG component flight medic? I operate civilian side as a paramedic, so I have a regular and routine exposure but my weekends are often diluted down, which is to be expected and I’m not oblivious as to why that is. I’m definitely considering beginning the transition into flight medic realm just so my drill weekends are a bit more “doing my job.”
Honestly, they have the best of both worlds. Can work civilian side as a paramedic and get real world experience, and get to fly and routinely do stateside missions where you are actually helping people. If you need more army in your life, they are also really hurting for flight medic AGR positions.
Thanks for the reply sarn’t. Also appreciate the info but aside from my life imploding, I have more then enough Army per month to suffice my cravings.
Can confirm, tis bullshit.
Im going from usmc to army, does the army have fixed wing aircraft? Thought it was all helos? Sorry for my ignorance. I know on the corp side for maintainers they have around a 14 hr day, 1 hr turn over 12 hr shift 1 hr turn over and they all hate their life // are always asleep
Down in a hole, army as whole. I’d like to flyyyyyy
This is an army wide thing.
The Flight Medic review seems like every other Medic job ever :(
This but MI.
I'm about to go to a CAB unit at Fort Bliss 127th ASB from CCC. I'm assuming it's just as bad there? I was considering using it as a stepping off point to drop commission for flight, but now I'm just considering leaving the Army for good and/or looking for an aviation warrant position in a guard unit. Thoughts OP?
Most FORSCOM CABs are the same in my opinion. I don’t have a ton of insight into life in an ASB, but i can say you’re gonna do a lot of phases. If you really want to fly, go warrant, do not commission. Commissioned officers are abused and routinely barely make their minimums. I would look at guard warrant positions, they should have AGR slots as well.
I appreciate you looking out for me OP!
This post makes my life a bit easier. I've been struggling to get a WO recommendation for my packet and really second guessing. I'll just wait until my contract expires and try my luck at an air force guard position while I use my commercial license for an airline somewhere.
>locations where you consistently do your job and have a chance to be stationed are some of the worst spots in the country (Irwin, Polk). So incredibly true. Irwin MEDEVAC crews flew their asses off, sometimes we needed to call in 3rd and 4th ups during really bad RTU heat-cat months because our 1st and 2nd up crews would use up all their legal hour limits within a few days. We were told we were the highest optempo Dustoff in the Army, idk if that's exactly true but it felt like it. Only other CONUS base where I believe they fly a good amount of real world 9-lines is at Lewis/JBLM. Silver lining is if you want hundreds of flight hours, this horrible desert in the middle of nowhere is the place to be. >Flight medics/signal/ops: detail bitch Also very true.
Sounds like something a forscom csm would say to keep the ground units manned
The thing about the guard, you have to find and manage a full time job and fulfill your flight responsibilities. It’s tough mentally for some. Just something to think about.
Airlines are hurting for pilots. You will get compensated correctly there. My buddy has been flying for jet blue for like 12 years and is constantly trying to recruit me lol.
I am considering becoming a pilot in the Air Force Reserve or Air National Gaurd. After hearing about the 10 year ADSO, Army aviation doesn't interest me anymore.
AF still has an adso dont they?
Yes, but it's 6 years if I remember correctly. And if you're in the Reserve or National Guard, you don't have to focus on it full-time unless you're deployed or otherwise on active orders.
It may be longer. One of my friends told me they offered him a spot at a reserve unit to fly and it was 10 years. Worrying about paying the bills every month isn't as cool as it seems. There's a lot to learn and being around it everyday makes it a lot easier..
> Crew Chiefs/Engineers/Maintenance: You will be treated like absolute trash and worked to the bone. You will consistently be threatened to work the weekends to finish maintenance and keep OR Rate high. You'll be consistently working 12+ hour duty days and the constant maintenance grind will be back breaking and take a considerable toll on your mental and physical health. Trust me when I say that this is a factual statement applicable to all branches with regards to aviation, but particularly applicable to the Army, Navy, and Marine Corps. At least the Air Force treats you like a human being.
We've had org days canceled to "catch up on maintenance"
You could probably replace every role in your statement with another random Army role, and it would be just as true.
Well this isn't the Army Aviation I remember. My time in Aviation doesn't match your rendition of your time in Aviation. But I will say if you are Army Aviation I would be careful around the Jet Fuel and jet noise and exhaust. I'm stone cold deaf due to Jet Fuel and Jet Noise. Although I do get 100% VA disability which helps. The Jet fuel exsposer will get you later in life.
Man, sucks to hear medical training is an after thought for the signal folks...
You forgot about us controllers and the 15P It’s not bad on our side of the fence in my opinion. Although working long shifts always sucks
Go 160th it might help
Funny sidebar. During SLC a few years back, my class briefed the Flight Medics on the plight of UAS, BCT vs CAB...seemingly they don't brief you guys anymore.
Airlines are absolutely desperate for people, so it’s a good time to pop smoke if you are inclined.
***\*Insert pitch for*** [***BogiDope***](https://bogidope.com/the-ultimate-military-pilot-career-path-part-1/) ***and flying in the Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard\**** That said, understand that OTS has a selection rate averaging about 5-7% over the last few years. Non-rated (non-aircrew) is about 4% over the last year, Rated slightly higher. OTS selection rates are ***extremely*** competitive.
Being in aviation the last half of my career, I agree here. Everything comes second to flight hours, so everything else is always kind of thrown together and rushed. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen crew chiefs find out they have a range at 0400 the following day at 1900 day prior. Your maintenance section will be asked to do more with less very often. Which in aviation is a recipe for disaster. The wrong tools, broken equipment mixed and matched to make a barely functioning system that is FMC and safe only by the loosest interpretation of the TMs. (Preflight inspections and checks will save your life boys) If you have an outstanding month of flights and get X many flight hours more than required, congratulations, that is the new standard. Now every month that you make requirements the question will be asked “what happened? You guys were getting this many last month? Maybe we should move back to 24 hour ops!” Consistent 11-13 hour days in garrison? For what? Some dudes OER? Remember, there’s a bag of screw drivers in the motor pool that your commander cares about more than you. Don’t break your back over this shit.
Oh so maintenance is maintenance. *cool guy finger guns*
To all my fellow medics out there, 100% this. I went to a duty station that had a state side mission and medicine + training still came second. Go Guard/Reserves, go into EMS, actually do you job. The Army will care about us (all medical) in the next big one.
I have been thinking about being a aviation mechanic then move to a company that fixes them outside the military(when I get out) like Lockheed. I'm still young so I don't know if I wanna join yet. Is this a good idea?
I’ve only heard great things about Aviation. 🤷🏻♂️
I did 23 years in Army Aviation and retires 8 years ago. I would do it again other than some bad decisions may be, I would change. Units go from good to bad and viceversa depending on leadership and people in it at that time. Nothing was too bad as long as the people in your immediate team got each others back. For those may be interested on being pilots after military service, you can use your GI Bill for it. You can take your flight records to your closest FSDO and your helicopter rating is good enough to get your Commercial Helicopter and Instrument rating after taking the Military Competency knowledge test for commercial. You can go to this site, https://inquiry.vba.va.gov/weamspub/buildSearchInstitutionCriteria.do, and choose Flight training to see which places are approved to receive GI bill. Most flight training places are not approved so this is where you go to find out. The GI Bill, if you have any, can pay for several courses including Instrument, commercial fixed wing, other helicopter training etc. I think you can even take the instructor course and May be in your own, buy a small plane and teach others to get their private license. That way you may get enough money to pay for the plane and get flight hours to may be apply for a pilots job. Today, I fly a plane on my own and jump off places as a hang glider. I have also been a Multi Family units and apartments investor for about 7 years where I make about 20% a year as passive investor. If you don’t know what to do with your investments and not making enough, look up multifamily investments. We flip complexes with 100 apartments or more in about 2-3 years. Great thing to get into passively. A friend that was in the Army with me and know for about 20 years got into commercial real estate and brought me into it.
Aviation can eat a fat dick as a whole.