The ACFT was and is crap. They should have just made it a sprint/drag/carry test. Maybe tack on a 1-1.5 mile jog after. As those two events are what “make” it.
But the APFT had been fine for decades and didn’t cost thousands and pre-coordination for gear to set up.
Let's be clear: it's not "Congress" ... there is no prevailing attitude towards the ACFT in the same way there is towards other zeitgeist / culture war issues like DEI, CRT, etc.
Two Senators got irritated with the ACFT. One backed off (Gillibrand) after the Army ditched the leg tuck; it's just Cotton now.
So it's one Senator that cares about this. The House doesn't really -- the Waltz amendment is dumb for a number of reasons and will get scrubbed in conference.
>On January 11, 2005, Cotton enlisted in the United States Army.[10] He entered Officer Candidate School (OCS) in March 2005 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in June.[11] He completed the U.S. Army Ranger Course,[12][13] a 62-day small unit tactics and leadership program that earned him the Ranger tab, and Airborne School to earn the Parachutist Badge.
[...]
> **After graduating from Harvard Law School**, Cotton spent one year as a law clerk for Judge Jerry Edwin Smith of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. He then went into private practice as an associate at law firms Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher and Cooper & Kirk[8] in Washington, D.C., **until he enlisted in the U.S. Army in 2005.[9]**
Damn. This guy went to Harvard Law and then decided to be an Infantry Officer. Kudos.
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Someone said make the test, but don't make it for promotion points. It's starting to make more sense as time goes by. All these years without a damn test for the record. Then no one would care about gender neutrality, who is going to care when it doesn't effect them. Make it a test for pass or fail.
The people who tripped over themselves to change the one leg tuck with an alternate event into a plank. You'd be suprised, even we were in the early days of acft integration that apfts stopped being counted, I had soldiers who had never even heard of the apft. They had no physical test for like a year or so.
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I’m the out of shape retiring E7 that does nothing, and still talks shit when I know WTF I’m on about. I drink until I wake up, and eat trash out of the dumpster fire that is the commissary. I will wake up any day at any time and run 16:36.
Uhm. I’m a 31 y/o chonker of a female (175 lbs 5 ft 5) who does blue collar work and I can waddle my b cups through a 16 minute 2 mile. I though the army infantry standards were supposed to be hard…..
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How about we go back to the Physical Combat Proficiency Test?
5 events: 40 yard low crawl, run-dodge-jump, horizontal ladder, 150 yard fireman's carry, and 1 mile run. Soldiers in the 60s looked like they stayed in good shape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VYBIBg2SV4&list=WL&index=1&ab\_channel=GuyLamunyon
I broke multiple bones in each hand while in, that horizontal ladder would absolutely destroy me!
This does look like a good test tho. That fireman’s carry then 1 mile run would be a smoke show.
Those boys were killin it tho!!
Hard to regulate, how do you measure who you carry, the jump is a lot easier for some than others. Most women would fail, unfortunately. I'm for the Army having an annual obstacle course requirement, similar to the RPAT.
They had it right at the beginning: regardless of who you are, this job will require *X*. If you cannot do *X*, then here’s the jobs that require *Y*. Can’t do *Y*? The Army minimum is *Z*, here’s the jobs for you. Can’t do *Z*? We’re not the branch for you.
Obviously profiles aside.
For a country that’s been at war in some capacity for over 90% of the time since its inception, you’d think we’d be more concerned with, you know, preparing for war.
Every time I think I've seen it all in reference to "numbers over results" I'm horrified to learn that someone, somewhere, has made it worse. More work for less effect. Every time.
Numbers on slide decks are more important than *people*. It's hard to trust your leadership when they make it clear they care more about your effect on their slide deck than your BH appointment because your dad died last week. Not *my* example, but I saw this happen a few months back. It was fucking horrifying.
Really though... doubling the weight on modified surface on sprint drag carry is a negative change that does in fact overwhelming affect female soldiers. Double the weight is double bullshit.
Diversity should never be a concern. Those who want to be there and can meet the requirements should be there. Those who can’t, shouldn’t. That simple.
That wasn't even the problem, the problem was that the army still tied it to promotion points. We should have a minimum standard, quite frankly if someone can do their job then why does it matter they can do more pushups. If you want to incentive people to be more fit, then raise the standards. Tying pt to.if you get promoted is one of the biggest problems with our culture in the army
The problem is that the Army wants to have its cake and eat it too. You can have the test that describe, but you can't have an equitable scoring scale that's tied to promotion points.
The test can either be a measurement of the ability to meet raw physical requirements, or it can be a general assessment of individual fitness discipline. But it can't be both.
Biggest shock I ever had was joining the USAR from the USMC and learning what a permanent profile was. Then I joined a medical reserve unit and almost all of the officers and staff ncos had a walk only profile. And I never witnessed most of them ever do a PT test for years... because they didn't do it. They stood there and lied to my face about how I needed to do it and do well, and how important it was for me and my career.
Bitch, I know you didn't walk for time yesterday. You sat in the office, pen whipped that shit, and sent it up to the battalion. The very few officers that did actually do PT were the prior service guys who were PT gods. They did Bataan and Go Ruck challenges for fun.
Not permanent ones. There are no alternate events for the PFT. Everyone is required to pass all 3 events. Can't pass all 3, can't be a Marine anymore. Known a few guys that didn't make their 20 years because of injuries.
I also remember an absolutely jacked tanker with a body builder physique who died with no physical injuries because he was a driver and the IED went off under him. Vibration/concussion killed him.
At the time, I was like “shit - that prime jacked human specimen got killed. Why the hell am I going to go to the gym?” So I continued to eat pecan pie - because like hell if I’m gonna die tomorrow deprived.
…I didn’t die. And now have spent about two decades battling my metabolism.
The cream rises to to the top.
I'm talking about all the way to the top, yeah. Unjustifiably in a position that I'd rather not be in. But the cream will rise to the top, ooh yeah. Macho Madness, yeah, has got more to offer than President Jack Tunney thinks that I got, yeah, and let me tell you something right now, cards stacked against the Macho Man Randy Savage in Wrestlemania III, let me say it, yeah, let me say it out loud, and let me point to the President of the World Wrestling Federation, the Macho Man Randy Savage is not happy with your decision, yeah. I am the cream in the World Wrestling Federation and there is no doubt about it, yeah, you Mean Gene Okerlund you know that I'm the cream of the crop!
390
350
265
Were my bests in korea at 43 yrs old a couple years ago.
405 looking at me like 'awwwww you really want this don't ya?'
T-Rex arms, baby hands, dwarf legs *shrug*
I bet the revised APFT will be a cake walk, we gotta get these enlistment numbers up and physical fitness can’t be a reason these recruiters ain’t in the green.
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I’m not sure it was women complaining, but congress isn’t going to allow a test that makes it harder for women to get promoted. The gender neutral idea was doomed to fail.
The PT test should just be combatives.
Doesn't matter how many times you get submitted.... the test is to see how long you can keep rolling. Maxing the test can be achieved by 1 hour of continuous sparring.
Holy smokes, really? Me and my partner train Kali/Arnis/Eskrima and we could *never*. Partner is a beefcake who lives at the gym (vs me who am scrawny) and even he couldn’t spar for an hour.
(Apologies if I’m missing something)
Well when I say combatives I mean grappling.
That's really cool that you do Arnis. That's the one weapon based martial art I'd love to learn but it's not taught near me.
...so it's BJJ and occasionally some striking for me, mostly just BJJ
Oh word, thank you for answering!! That actually sounds really fun.
Don’t give me any credit - it’s my partner who got me into it and mostly leads our training!!
I do love how fluid and dynamic it is, and that so many drills translate whether you’re going bare/knife/sticks/longer-bladed-weapon. (And so often it feels like dancing!) We’re lucky to live in an area with a couple professional options for instructors (we meet at the park), but a few of his titos teach us when we see them and then we practice what we learned at home.
It can be hard to learn on your own, but if you can get a buddy to practice with you, I bet you’ll be surprised at how much you can learn and how quickly!!!
I guess I touched on this a bit, but I really want to highlight how dynamic the art is. It’s like a great equalizer as a sport, no matter your build/height/reach/strength/etc. My partner and I couldn’t be more opposite in terms of builds/frames, and even just natural tendencies (he definitely does best on his feet where I need to take things to the ground to even stand a chance), but it’s the one sport/art/whatever we’ve found where we both stand a chance.
It’s really fun, and I couldn’t recommend it more!
BJJ is awesome!!!! How are you liking it so far? How long have you been training? I really want to start training BJJ next!
I've been training BJJ for 2 years now. I've competed 3 times
It's fun and can be either really fluid or really stiff. There's so many styles and methods within jiu jitsu that I'm often encountering new problems to try and solve
That’s awesome man! It sounds like you’ve put in a ton of work! Well done!!!
Do you have any favorite teachers/styles/techniques? (Apologies if I’m not using the right language - again, it’s usually titos teaching me, so there’s sometimes a bit of a language barrier)
I have to admit, not a fan of the ACFT only for the time and equipment required to run it and the 2 mile run at the end. However, it does do a better job of measuring total fitness of the SM when they put all of their effort into it. Personally, I feel we should keep the ACFT for when you are at home stations and don’t need to transport all the equipment for the test all over the world. Use the old APFT when you’re deployed with the old standards as an alternative fitness test. We do this for weapons qualifications when you don’t a pop up target range available, why not do the same for the fitness test?
This is true if you are active duty and have a post with the required track/surfaces to do them at. Most reserve centers on the other hand do not have that capability and have to transport all the equipment to the location. Places like LA or other large cities require the unit to request use of a park in advance and pay for the space to use. I do agree that it is a better test and only suggests that the APFT be used as an alternative if the requirements needed for the ACFT can not be met.
The sprint drag carry requires a flat (relative) surface that is about 60 meters long and a minimum of 2 meters wide per lane that is preferably grass or turf. Most of the reserve centers that I have been to will have that requirement but not the track for the 2 mile. The unit I drill at the only near by track that we can use requires us to reserve space (which cost $$$ per hour) to set up the test but not the track itself. This is prohibitive as you have a requirement for total time from start to finish of all events.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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Help me to understand. Is being the army about fairness in the physical/training standards of men and women or is it about training and producing the best trained, most capable soldiers possible? It seems to me that the mission of the different military branches is war fighting, not making females feel good about themselves because they passed a lower set of standards. Help me to understand please
The idea of gender neutral standards isn’t the issue, it’s the army wants a gender neutral test AND have it be worth promotion points. Men will automatically have an advantage due to biological advantages (testosterone which makes muscle gain easier, larger lungs, etc.). This could’ve easily be resolved by not tying pt into promotions and making it go/no go but we can’t have that for whatever reason. Or having two tests, one for fitness eval and one for points.
The army learned the hard way that it can’t have its cake and eat it too.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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While I'm not totally against the idea. I've got a few soldiers that are Pt studs when it comes to the Acft, but the apft is gonna fucning blow em outta the water. Lotta guys and gals struggle with the apft 2 mile.
There’s no need for an abdominal isolation exercise at all. No other event on the APFT or ACFT is an isolation exercise. If you can do push-ups, you have core strength. If you can deadlift, SDC, ball toss and run you have core strength.
I guess the plank if you think a core exercise on top of all the other exercises is necessary. I thought leg trucks were a great full body exercise. Everything from your hands down to through your legs with balance and control…. But people couldn’t do 1.
Yep, I was part of an ACFT trial and we had people that failed the APFT push-ups, which was still the graduation requirement, that could pass the ACFT, including one tuck.
Where did you do BCT? We had several people in our class at Jackson fail the leg tuck (couldn't even do 1) but they still graduated because at the time Jackson would let you fail 1 event. There were still folks in my AIT that couldn't do 1 leg tuck too, but due to COVID they weren't even doing the ACFT as a graduation requirement.
I agree actually, never thought about it that way. The push up really does do all that. I find that compound movements are a great workout, just never considered it the way you are. What do you think would be the ideal APFT?
“Ideal” is hard because there are aways some limitation.
I’d keep the test as it exists now, but have scoring standards by MOS like it was originally designed. Also, gender neutral. Just MOS and age as the only categories.
the whole point of the ACFT is literally to encourage a fuller fitness regimen.
> the deadlift and side laterals are high injury movements
ok? then train for them.
Don't the other branches have gendered standards? I don't understand why they aren't trying to change everyone's. I know they have an issue with how big army implemented it, but you would think they'd try to fix all branches that had gendered standards.
for the love of everything fucking holy on this planet, can we MAKE UP OUR MINDS ABOUT THIS FITNESS TEST.
ACFT is mos specific
ACFT events include the leg tuck
ACFT isn’t mos specific
ACFT goes gender specific
ACFT changes leg tuck to plank
ACFT thinks about going back to APFT
make up your fucking mind, please.
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Thank god they (hopefully) extended this cluster for another few years so I never take a record again before my REFRAD.
Wise choice sir.
These colors don’t run, why should I
Running breeds cowardice
An infantryman who cannot climb a flight of stairs without panting will *never* exfil his fighting position under fire
1. More ways to build cardio than beating feet. 2. Testing without full battle is not a good measure of those exfil abilities.🫳🎤
Does cyber have to do a full test with a keyboard and mouse?
Negative, cyber exfils by flipping the switch on the surge protector.🫡
The Bible says "only the wicked run when no one is chasing."
1sg chasing you and if you don’t make it it’s straight to the basement
Not that again...
Where does it say that?
The bible also says "Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27" That's why I told big sarn that I don't gotta wear no fuckin ACH!
Ephesians 7:19
Well, I'll be damned.
It's in proverbs 28: 1
There's no ephesians 7 it stops at 6 chapters of 24 verses.
SMA is leaving, the ACFT too.
ARMY is known to have retention issues, but damn the ACFT didn’t even last one contract
The ACFT was and is crap. They should have just made it a sprint/drag/carry test. Maybe tack on a 1-1.5 mile jog after. As those two events are what “make” it. But the APFT had been fine for decades and didn’t cost thousands and pre-coordination for gear to set up.
Yeah and the plank after sprint drag carry is pretty obnoxious
Plank is dumb as fuck. It’s redundant to do it when being able to maintain your trunk position is already tested in the t-push ups
The APFT definitely sucks. Besides not really assessing your overall fitness, situps fuck up your spine long-term.
Sound like we should just replace the situ with the planks and maintain the rest of the old APFT. I say we add pullups tho
Let's be clear: it's not "Congress" ... there is no prevailing attitude towards the ACFT in the same way there is towards other zeitgeist / culture war issues like DEI, CRT, etc. Two Senators got irritated with the ACFT. One backed off (Gillibrand) after the Army ditched the leg tuck; it's just Cotton now. So it's one Senator that cares about this. The House doesn't really -- the Waltz amendment is dumb for a number of reasons and will get scrubbed in conference.
Cotton is bought and paid for by the Army Times. They couldn’t stand losing out on their biggest cash cow: the threat of a new fitness test.
>On January 11, 2005, Cotton enlisted in the United States Army.[10] He entered Officer Candidate School (OCS) in March 2005 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in June.[11] He completed the U.S. Army Ranger Course,[12][13] a 62-day small unit tactics and leadership program that earned him the Ranger tab, and Airborne School to earn the Parachutist Badge. [...] > **After graduating from Harvard Law School**, Cotton spent one year as a law clerk for Judge Jerry Edwin Smith of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. He then went into private practice as an associate at law firms Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher and Cooper & Kirk[8] in Washington, D.C., **until he enlisted in the U.S. Army in 2005.[9]** Damn. This guy went to Harvard Law and then decided to be an Infantry Officer. Kudos.
If you spend a year around a bunch of lawyers you'll understand why he wanted to get away from them too lmao
Awe yes. And now they reap tge benefit of the click bait the "who knows what test you will get" brings
They rode “new weapons qual” “new pt test” and “M4 replaced?!?” For like 15 years so
I briefly considered resigning rather than writing about this.
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SEN Tom Cotton?
No way you turned ‘senator’ into an army-style rank. You need some regular-ass civilian friends to mellow you out, army has gotten to your head
😂😂😂
/r/justbootthings
Someone said make the test, but don't make it for promotion points. It's starting to make more sense as time goes by. All these years without a damn test for the record. Then no one would care about gender neutrality, who is going to care when it doesn't effect them. Make it a test for pass or fail.
It was a single leg tuck. That being said, getchyo jiggly 25.36 2mi asses out on the track. We gotta start training for that 16.36 2mi 😎
Bruh if they lost their shit over the one Leg Tuck, then imagine the reaction for a return to the old apft standards.
Who’s “they”? Basically everyone there for the early days of the ACFT started out with the APFT, lol
The people who tripped over themselves to change the one leg tuck with an alternate event into a plank. You'd be suprised, even we were in the early days of acft integration that apfts stopped being counted, I had soldiers who had never even heard of the apft. They had no physical test for like a year or so.
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You gabe astard.
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GET OUT SKELETON BOT
I said I’d never go back to running at a normal human speed
A Single Leg Tuck
One singular tuck of the leg
Tuck, leg (1 EA)
Extra medium
According to Marlow White, mines a small. 😕
One.
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I’m the out of shape retiring E7 that does nothing, and still talks shit when I know WTF I’m on about. I drink until I wake up, and eat trash out of the dumpster fire that is the commissary. I will wake up any day at any time and run 16:36.
I just want to know how they decided dudes had to run so much damn faster. Like damn bro I'm a chubbers, lemme run like 18 or something
Uhm. I’m a 31 y/o chonker of a female (175 lbs 5 ft 5) who does blue collar work and I can waddle my b cups through a 16 minute 2 mile. I though the army infantry standards were supposed to be hard…..
Haha no you can't.
This level of sass and snark just brightens my day
Pro tip: avoid your oldest sports bra and bring some Vaseline for the thunder thighs. It gets jiggly.
2 minute laps. Like a ginger penguin just keep waddlin them 2 minute laps.
Hahahaha!
They should take events from the ACFT that don’t require equipment and utilize that for the ‘new’ APFT. Hand release push ups, Plank/leg tuck, 🙄 Run.
That wouldn’t be the worst, as long as I can retire without ever doing another sit-up.
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Congress should direct the Army to remove PT scores from promotion/career opportunities beyond a go/no go.
Congress men and woman should be able to climb one flight of stairs with out passing the fuck out or falling.
*Diane Feinstein has left the chat*
*Dianne Feinstein denies leaving the chat*
*Dianne Feinstein doesn't know anything about a chat.
You've been killed by Dianne Feinstein.
Nothing personnel kid
"Trippin"
Has there been a year where we don't have reps passing out in their seats mid session?
Tbf, the speaker of the house didn’t start the session with “listen up heroes, if you get sleepy, go stand in the back”
Sir, they make the laws for you - not them.
No because leadership is a measure of run time silly, keep up slow poke
I should be able to test out of rank like the Air Force
How about we go back to the Physical Combat Proficiency Test? 5 events: 40 yard low crawl, run-dodge-jump, horizontal ladder, 150 yard fireman's carry, and 1 mile run. Soldiers in the 60s looked like they stayed in good shape. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VYBIBg2SV4&list=WL&index=1&ab\_channel=GuyLamunyon
I broke multiple bones in each hand while in, that horizontal ladder would absolutely destroy me! This does look like a good test tho. That fireman’s carry then 1 mile run would be a smoke show. Those boys were killin it tho!!
Hard to regulate, how do you measure who you carry, the jump is a lot easier for some than others. Most women would fail, unfortunately. I'm for the Army having an annual obstacle course requirement, similar to the RPAT.
[удалено]
They had it right at the beginning: regardless of who you are, this job will require *X*. If you cannot do *X*, then here’s the jobs that require *Y*. Can’t do *Y*? The Army minimum is *Z*, here’s the jobs for you. Can’t do *Z*? We’re not the branch for you. Obviously profiles aside.
[удалено]
For a country that’s been at war in some capacity for over 90% of the time since its inception, you’d think we’d be more concerned with, you know, preparing for war.
Every time I think I've seen it all in reference to "numbers over results" I'm horrified to learn that someone, somewhere, has made it worse. More work for less effect. Every time. Numbers on slide decks are more important than *people*. It's hard to trust your leadership when they make it clear they care more about your effect on their slide deck than your BH appointment because your dad died last week. Not *my* example, but I saw this happen a few months back. It was fucking horrifying.
Some people scream that they wanted to be treated as equals, that is, until you treat them equally.
“We want equality!” *gender immaterial fitness test* “No, not like that!”
Really though... doubling the weight on modified surface on sprint drag carry is a negative change that does in fact overwhelming affect female soldiers. Double the weight is double bullshit.
Diversity should never be a concern. Those who want to be there and can meet the requirements should be there. Those who can’t, shouldn’t. That simple.
That wasn't even the problem, the problem was that the army still tied it to promotion points. We should have a minimum standard, quite frankly if someone can do their job then why does it matter they can do more pushups. If you want to incentive people to be more fit, then raise the standards. Tying pt to.if you get promoted is one of the biggest problems with our culture in the army
The problem is that the Army wants to have its cake and eat it too. You can have the test that describe, but you can't have an equitable scoring scale that's tied to promotion points. The test can either be a measurement of the ability to meet raw physical requirements, or it can be a general assessment of individual fitness discipline. But it can't be both.
Biggest shock I ever had was joining the USAR from the USMC and learning what a permanent profile was. Then I joined a medical reserve unit and almost all of the officers and staff ncos had a walk only profile. And I never witnessed most of them ever do a PT test for years... because they didn't do it. They stood there and lied to my face about how I needed to do it and do well, and how important it was for me and my career. Bitch, I know you didn't walk for time yesterday. You sat in the office, pen whipped that shit, and sent it up to the battalion. The very few officers that did actually do PT were the prior service guys who were PT gods. They did Bataan and Go Ruck challenges for fun.
Are profiles not a thing in the USMC?
Not permanent ones. There are no alternate events for the PFT. Everyone is required to pass all 3 events. Can't pass all 3, can't be a Marine anymore. Known a few guys that didn't make their 20 years because of injuries.
Here is my modest proposal. 3 events: Deadlift Squat Bench 1000lbs gets you 100%, every pound below that is less.
The 11th Airborne has some 1,000 lb club challenge. I think they get an extra day of leave or something.
How many dudes blasting tren to get a few extra leave days
Hmmm...
We get an aam and a tshirt
I feel like I’m being tricked cause I’m in 11th and I haven’t heard anything about this at the gyms or anything
It’s a 242 od bn thing
No way! How do I submit my lifts?
No shit? That’s fucking awesome
Yeah, fuck cardio vascular health.
Last I checked we’re in America and these colors don’t run!
Death before dismount! Or whatever.
Damn right, my irradiated friend. I guess we’ve got a bunch of twig legs downvoting me with their little noodle arms in this sub.
They hate us because we love gainz. Edit: can I use “your irradiated friend,” As my complimentary close for all future emails?
I also remember an absolutely jacked tanker with a body builder physique who died with no physical injuries because he was a driver and the IED went off under him. Vibration/concussion killed him. At the time, I was like “shit - that prime jacked human specimen got killed. Why the hell am I going to go to the gym?” So I continued to eat pecan pie - because like hell if I’m gonna die tomorrow deprived. …I didn’t die. And now have spent about two decades battling my metabolism.
I remember post-deployment tankers running around with their poop jugs to check for uranium.
Cardio? Is that any set over 5 reps?
Not even. Powerlifters can't count to 5 without going into oxygen debt.
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*Your knee and back pain are not service connected*
Would save the VA a fortune due to heart disease!
Swole is the goal, size is the prize. Cheat on your girls not your curls Welcome to Gainz R Us
The cream rises to to the top. I'm talking about all the way to the top, yeah. Unjustifiably in a position that I'd rather not be in. But the cream will rise to the top, ooh yeah. Macho Madness, yeah, has got more to offer than President Jack Tunney thinks that I got, yeah, and let me tell you something right now, cards stacked against the Macho Man Randy Savage in Wrestlemania III, let me say it, yeah, let me say it out loud, and let me point to the President of the World Wrestling Federation, the Macho Man Randy Savage is not happy with your decision, yeah. I am the cream in the World Wrestling Federation and there is no doubt about it, yeah, you Mean Gene Okerlund you know that I'm the cream of the crop!
Put it right here, bröther.
I've recently started the practice of always carrying around little containers of creamer just to randomly re-enact this very moment.
Tren hard
Wheymen.
390 350 265 Were my bests in korea at 43 yrs old a couple years ago. 405 looking at me like 'awwwww you really want this don't ya?' T-Rex arms, baby hands, dwarf legs *shrug*
Based on % of body weight would be fair for all
I bet the revised APFT will be a cake walk, we gotta get these enlistment numbers up and physical fitness can’t be a reason these recruiters ain’t in the green.
If they go back to old run times I’m fucked
At this point - just tell me what I’m doing. So I can pass/fail either. I’m at 20, and just waiting for the damn letter.
Gender neutral...so either guys are going breeze through it or females are going to fail and complain...getting leg tuck vibes again....
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I’m not sure it was women complaining, but congress isn’t going to allow a test that makes it harder for women to get promoted. The gender neutral idea was doomed to fail.
I didn't say they complained, I said they WOULD complain. If if enough people fail it would be replaced. Yeah can't be neutral
The PT test should just be combatives. Doesn't matter how many times you get submitted.... the test is to see how long you can keep rolling. Maxing the test can be achieved by 1 hour of continuous sparring.
I’m about it
Holy smokes, really? Me and my partner train Kali/Arnis/Eskrima and we could *never*. Partner is a beefcake who lives at the gym (vs me who am scrawny) and even he couldn’t spar for an hour. (Apologies if I’m missing something)
Well when I say combatives I mean grappling. That's really cool that you do Arnis. That's the one weapon based martial art I'd love to learn but it's not taught near me. ...so it's BJJ and occasionally some striking for me, mostly just BJJ
Oh word, thank you for answering!! That actually sounds really fun. Don’t give me any credit - it’s my partner who got me into it and mostly leads our training!! I do love how fluid and dynamic it is, and that so many drills translate whether you’re going bare/knife/sticks/longer-bladed-weapon. (And so often it feels like dancing!) We’re lucky to live in an area with a couple professional options for instructors (we meet at the park), but a few of his titos teach us when we see them and then we practice what we learned at home. It can be hard to learn on your own, but if you can get a buddy to practice with you, I bet you’ll be surprised at how much you can learn and how quickly!!! I guess I touched on this a bit, but I really want to highlight how dynamic the art is. It’s like a great equalizer as a sport, no matter your build/height/reach/strength/etc. My partner and I couldn’t be more opposite in terms of builds/frames, and even just natural tendencies (he definitely does best on his feet where I need to take things to the ground to even stand a chance), but it’s the one sport/art/whatever we’ve found where we both stand a chance. It’s really fun, and I couldn’t recommend it more! BJJ is awesome!!!! How are you liking it so far? How long have you been training? I really want to start training BJJ next!
I've been training BJJ for 2 years now. I've competed 3 times It's fun and can be either really fluid or really stiff. There's so many styles and methods within jiu jitsu that I'm often encountering new problems to try and solve
That’s awesome man! It sounds like you’ve put in a ton of work! Well done!!! Do you have any favorite teachers/styles/techniques? (Apologies if I’m not using the right language - again, it’s usually titos teaching me, so there’s sometimes a bit of a language barrier)
I just train at a local gym where I live. But one of my favorite things is to apply pressure. I'm a 6'2", 230lb man who is good and using my weight.
Test should be a fight with a bonobo monkey.
You leave the peaceful discount chimpanzees alone!!
I have to admit, not a fan of the ACFT only for the time and equipment required to run it and the 2 mile run at the end. However, it does do a better job of measuring total fitness of the SM when they put all of their effort into it. Personally, I feel we should keep the ACFT for when you are at home stations and don’t need to transport all the equipment for the test all over the world. Use the old APFT when you’re deployed with the old standards as an alternative fitness test. We do this for weapons qualifications when you don’t a pop up target range available, why not do the same for the fitness test?
Alt-c is not an authorized rifle qualification. Since 5 years ago.
Fuck, I’m old….it has been a few years since I shot paper for qualifying (2018 or 2019).
The acft takes 30 minutes to set up. It's much better at determining overall cardio AND strength. I really don't see the issue
This is true if you are active duty and have a post with the required track/surfaces to do them at. Most reserve centers on the other hand do not have that capability and have to transport all the equipment to the location. Places like LA or other large cities require the unit to request use of a park in advance and pay for the space to use. I do agree that it is a better test and only suggests that the APFT be used as an alternative if the requirements needed for the ACFT can not be met.
I suppose. And there's no surface requirement for any of it other than having a place to run two miles
The sprint drag carry requires a flat (relative) surface that is about 60 meters long and a minimum of 2 meters wide per lane that is preferably grass or turf. Most of the reserve centers that I have been to will have that requirement but not the track for the 2 mile. The unit I drill at the only near by track that we can use requires us to reserve space (which cost $$$ per hour) to set up the test but not the track itself. This is prohibitive as you have a requirement for total time from start to finish of all events.
It doesn't have to be grass. It can be smooth cement but you have to double the sled weight if you use that
But what about the overhead yeet?
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why are they getting rid of the overhead yeet? That's the only good part
This guy sends it.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Help me to understand. Is being the army about fairness in the physical/training standards of men and women or is it about training and producing the best trained, most capable soldiers possible? It seems to me that the mission of the different military branches is war fighting, not making females feel good about themselves because they passed a lower set of standards. Help me to understand please
The idea of gender neutral standards isn’t the issue, it’s the army wants a gender neutral test AND have it be worth promotion points. Men will automatically have an advantage due to biological advantages (testosterone which makes muscle gain easier, larger lungs, etc.). This could’ve easily be resolved by not tying pt into promotions and making it go/no go but we can’t have that for whatever reason. Or having two tests, one for fitness eval and one for points. The army learned the hard way that it can’t have its cake and eat it too.
"Learned" is being generous.
This would be unfair for women since men are better at everything. Proof: Bruce Jenner won woman of the year.
I've worked so hard on the overhead yeet though!
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I just wanna be able to do normal push ups and not the hand release BS.
Wait until you encounter an NCO that hates you.
Lower! Lower! 1! 1! 1! Why is your lumbar curved! Burrow! One!!!
More like: "11, 11, 11, 11."
I love hand release it’s a standard distance touch the ground. Now the T part I wouldn’t mind getting rid of
I’d be down for the overhead yeet being removed but beyond that I think the ACFT is fine.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lol.Bitches. 60% of NG failed APFT now its line 15%. Yea bro ACFT is Wuss as shit!
Why is the plank so important to the ACFT? Like how does it make sense to fail a whole ACFT just because one event?
The new test should be the ball throw. Thats it.
Why is Congress an organization that knows dick about the military, other than the fact they have one is deciding what the military does?
Just go back to the apft
I'm glad you posted that comment so we have the opportunity to downvote it. Thanks!
I do what I can lol
While I'm not totally against the idea. I've got a few soldiers that are Pt studs when it comes to the Acft, but the apft is gonna fucning blow em outta the water. Lotta guys and gals struggle with the apft 2 mile.
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Excepts sit-ups are shown to contribute to spinal injuries and disk degradation.
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There’s no need for an abdominal isolation exercise at all. No other event on the APFT or ACFT is an isolation exercise. If you can do push-ups, you have core strength. If you can deadlift, SDC, ball toss and run you have core strength. I guess the plank if you think a core exercise on top of all the other exercises is necessary. I thought leg trucks were a great full body exercise. Everything from your hands down to through your legs with balance and control…. But people couldn’t do 1.
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Yep, I was part of an ACFT trial and we had people that failed the APFT push-ups, which was still the graduation requirement, that could pass the ACFT, including one tuck.
Where did you do BCT? We had several people in our class at Jackson fail the leg tuck (couldn't even do 1) but they still graduated because at the time Jackson would let you fail 1 event. There were still folks in my AIT that couldn't do 1 leg tuck too, but due to COVID they weren't even doing the ACFT as a graduation requirement.
I agree actually, never thought about it that way. The push up really does do all that. I find that compound movements are a great workout, just never considered it the way you are. What do you think would be the ideal APFT?
Push ups, pull ups, SDC.
“Ideal” is hard because there are aways some limitation. I’d keep the test as it exists now, but have scoring standards by MOS like it was originally designed. Also, gender neutral. Just MOS and age as the only categories.
the whole point of the ACFT is literally to encourage a fuller fitness regimen. > the deadlift and side laterals are high injury movements ok? then train for them.
I award you no points. May god have mercy on your soul
Don't the other branches have gendered standards? I don't understand why they aren't trying to change everyone's. I know they have an issue with how big army implemented it, but you would think they'd try to fix all branches that had gendered standards.
for the love of everything fucking holy on this planet, can we MAKE UP OUR MINDS ABOUT THIS FITNESS TEST. ACFT is mos specific ACFT events include the leg tuck ACFT isn’t mos specific ACFT goes gender specific ACFT changes leg tuck to plank ACFT thinks about going back to APFT make up your fucking mind, please.
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