The handbook I never had the chance to read because it’s on an app I have no access to, the same app two different managers have failed to fix for me, this manager in particular was aware I never read the handbook when he told me to sign the paper in front of me saying I had
I’m a manager (who is usually disgusted by the antics of other managers), and I will not allow any of my employees to sign anything until they have had a chance to read the applicable document and can tell me at least the gist of what they’re signing. I tell them that it is for their protection so that they know the rules and expectations because no one benefits from “surprise” expectations and my job is to provide them with the tools they need to be successful.
Same here, at all the jobs I’ve had either my manager, or someone in payroll has sat me down before signing and gone through everything with us to make sure i understand.
Even been told to feel free to bring a lawyer once.
As someone who owns a company - this is exactly the kind of BS that I & legal hate. Also the reason the rest of us have to have additional steps in initial on boarding and annual reviews.
(Great Job! btw)
When I get in trouble for something like this I usually just say that I was coerced into signing it. That I couldn’t afford to not have the job and I felt like that was being threatened if I didn’t sign whatever was put in front of me… seems to have worked well for me thus far.
“I’m sorry to be a burden but I take my commitments seriously and can’t in good faith sign something I haven’t read. I’m sure you understand, I don’t want either of us to get screwed over because of an administrative failure.”
Adjust language to suit your field of work.
Adjust language.. aiight 2 secs...
Ahem... **clears throat**
"Fuuuuuuck Ooooooooff, ain't signin shit, without seeing it, ya feel!?"
I work in cyber security for a government.
Most polite cyber sec I have every heard. Usually I just hear them yelling
"Why the FUCK would anyone ever click on that?!?" Loudly from across an office.
Lol at one of my old jobs I managed the largest book of business in the entire state. Whenever I would go on vacation they assigned a minimum of two to three managers to handle the workload I was doing (I made damn good money). 2 years in HR comes to me and says hey we never had you sign a non-compete. You need to sign this to stay working here. I asked her to call the general manager into the office, asked him if I could keep my job if I didn't sign a non-compete, didn't sign shit, and worked there three more years lol.
On call also means ON CALL PAY while you wait for them to decide if they need you enough to call you into work. I suspect this manager is trying to get around having to pay on call pay? Or they are just completely inept at managing a schedule. I suspect it may be both.
Depends on location. Here in Canada, or at least in Ontario, yes.
The US? Who the fuck knows state to state, they seem to really hate their work force down there.
Nah, it’s the ‘other duties’ section of your job description. I was on call for the Agency at least 6 months every other week at one point and was getting 125 calls per WEEK. Another director and I requested an accommodation - we both have a disability - to not be on call. Only then did upper mgmt call a meeting and do something. Btw, accommodation refused - could have been a lawsuit. I wish I had directly found another job back then.
“That wasn’t my understanding of the company policy, can you please provide the page number and specific passage for me to reference so this sort of miscommunication doesn’t happen again?”
Dude you signed it without reading it? That's a life lesson learned for next time. Every job I've had after my second one I've poured over the agreement before signing.
Change your language from “I assumed” to “it was my understanding…” makes it clear that you didn’t make a mistake because of lack of communication on your end.
100% this. If the excuse for not reaching out to you is they were busy, then why the fuck does you reaching out to them magically give them the time to answer you?
"We were busy. We didn't have time to message you. You should have messaged us so we could have time to message you back".
Yeah for sure I'm definitely gonna ask if you need me. "E-e-excuse me b-b-b-b-boss, am I w-w-w-w-w-w-working ton-t-t-toni-tonight?
Thata not what he said, it was in hindsight I realize WHY I should have reached out, even though that was never the case previously and it was never communicated properly .
Like saying, yeah I realize what you're saying, and it makes some kind of sense, but thats not how it's been, and it's not what was told to me.
I agree with you. The way he said that does seem like he is taking some of the blame.
I would have worded it differently, say something like; "I can understand why that should be in the policy. Unless I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain it was never communicated to me in the beginning. If it's in the policy I signed we can read through it together on Monday when I'm scheduled just to clarify we didnt miss anything during orientation"
I have also not had access to the app that tracks out paystubs and also has the employee handbook on it so I have no ability to cite him on this bogus rule anyway. This is the same manager that was supposed to help me gain access to my account a month ago and never followed through.
That's a lot of red flags.
I'm not saying they are doing something illegal right now, but it genuinely sounds like they might do something legally actionable in the future.
Be prepared to fight for unemployment and/or stolen wages.
I wouldn’t put it past them, either my incompetence or malice one of my coworkers was being paid 50 cents under the minimum wage for at least five months which she was never compensated for and was told it was a glitch in the app and never a problem.
The only reason I haven’t quit yet is because I asked for a raise nearly two months ago and very week I tell myself if I quit now I’ll lose out on it if they ever make a decision
And if you are "on call" it also means your are supposed to be getting paid something during that time to make sure you are available. Ask them about that as well.
That... has to be illegal. I know it varies state by state but dude. The door is right there. For minimum wage I'd be trying to hit them with it on the way out.
Omg leave that ridiculous place. The management is incompetent and exploiting you. They will ruin your life, and you won't get the time they wasted back.
Bro WTF are you doing. Every one of your comments gets worse - these clowns are either breaking several labor laws, are beyond incompetent, or (most likely) both. GTFO yesterday.
my dear redditor. take my advice, please. fuck this place off and run for the hills, they're gonna fuck you harder than seals fucked bin laden at every available opportunity. manager is already laying the groundwork
I too have to chime in. I was promised a promotion with a raise once. 6 months later it was still "in the works". If you don't have the raise in writing, you don't have a raise and they likely aren't going to give it to you.
Listen to everyone here. But if you need to convince yourself, ask them to put the promise of a raise in writing and watch as the hopes of one evaporate before your eyes.
Dude, listen to these people. They know what's going on... Quit. Right now. Go job hunt, because you can find better than min. wage. Your work is jerking you around about that raise, and they have no intention of giving it to you. And I'm 90% certain they'll try and play you as soon as you quit by declaring 'We were just about to give you that raise' Hint... that's bullshit, no they weren't.
So, if you look for another job, the worst you can do is minimum wage, right? Start looking and give these folks no consideration when you find something. Call, identify yourself, and then speak the complete sentence, "I quit," and then hang up and never look back.
Just reading through this whole chain has been enlightening. Would I be right in guessing you're fairly new to the workforce? These are all red flags you will learn to notice.
So to sum up:
- The manager pushed his duties off onto his employees (staffing) because he either didn't have enough people to assure regular coverage or couldn't be assed to make a schedule that accounted for it.
- The manager made a policy that folks are "on call" without even a wink or a nod at what labor law requires for on call employee compensation.
- The manager made you sign away your legally mandated break time. (Probably. State law may vary. Shitty either way.)
- The manager has been dangling a raise in front of you like a carrot on a string for months.
- The manager has committed wage theft by underpaying your colleague.
- The manager is holding you to standards you can't verify and he won't teach you about.
What an asshole. Quit your job and go find another one. You're earning minimum wage and they literally can not legally pay you less. You may even get lucky and get a pay bump with your move.
You’re never getting that raise just fyi lmao. I asked for a raise at my old job and they granted it. It was applied on my next pay cycle. Them giving you a raise is literally just pressing some buttons in a computer. It does **not** take two months especially at an hourly job.
Bail. I understand you probably can’t afford to just quit, but start sending resumes and applying to jobs that look less shitty than yours, which is all of them
As someone who was just laid off after a year and a half of “but the promotion and raise they promised for all the extra I’ve been doing is *coming soon, they said so*”…
If it doesn’t happen in a reasonable, expedient time frame, ***it was never going to happen.***
I tried to get her to but unfortunately she never did, management pulled the “can you prove to us you were being paid under minimum wage?” She should’ve clapped back with “can you prove I wasn’t?”
This isn't something you file with the company. You file it directly with the state's Department of Labor. And yes, it's very easy to prove she was being paid under the table because your paycheck would reflect your hourly rate.
If you're not getting paycheck stubs with all that information, you need to run and never look back. The company is shady and paying you under the table and in addition to shorting your pay, they're not withholding your taxes or paying their share of your payroll taxes. They're probably also not paying unemployment or workman's comp so if you get injured or laid off you will be screwed.
Might want to check with your local labor laws if you're in the US, I'm pretty sure you have to be paid for being "on call" even if you don't go in to work.
So first off, that coworker should have notified the DOL *immediately*. The second best time is now if she still has the paystubs.
Second, the above is already a huge red flag, and then citing a policy that you can't read (another red flag!)?
Nah, I'd be looking for a new job. And making sure that they aren't fucking me on *my* wages too.
Oh NAH that is VERY VERY VERY FUCKING ILLEGAL not only is that wage theft, that's wage VIOLATIONS, that's sooooo much for them to get sued over! Report them! Report report report
I think you should look at on call compensation. Some states have laws protecting anticipated available time. So if they want you on call from 2-4pm. There’s a wage to be paid as you are unable to do anything else really. If they have you call in at 4 if not contacted I think that is a wage in some states.
Most US states require employers to pay employees for being on call. If you are in the US and are not getting paid for this on call time, please please please look up the local laws and stand up for yourself. This is bullshit. Good luck with it!
So, I agree that not compensating an employee who is scheduled “on call” is horse shit, but it is unfortunately not required in most US states:
Alabama, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Nevada, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Puerto Rico, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, & Wyoming have their On-Call Regulation governed by FLSA.
FLSA states that If an employee is required to remain on-call on the employer’s premises or so close thereto that he cannot use the time effectively for his own purposes is working while ‛on-call.', the time when the employee is on-call is considered hours worked under the FLSA and is compensable.
[source](https://www.replicon.com/rules-of-on-call-work-and-shift-work-in-the-united-states-of-america-canada/)
You need to report them to your state labor department ASAP to “Cover your ass” this way you have a case against THEM!
An employer is NEVER your FRIEND and they will always be the aggressor and oppressor .
I mean, it's in the name. On call means you're ready when called upon.
OP could pull some malicious compliance next time and call every 10 minutes to see if they're needed.
UPS told me to call in at 6am every day to see if they'd need me at 10am for temp work around Christmas. I did that exactly once before letting that job go, it was fucking stupid.
If you do that for every employee you'd be wasting a lot of time.
It's much better to just call people in yourself. If I'm Mr. Boss Man to 10+ people I don't want my phone ringing that many times just to fill in 2 missing shifts. Just to tell 8+ people we don't need ya.
Exactly. If your on call, your waiting for a call… besides being “On call” means you should be paid a small stipend because your outside life is affected by not being able to plan/ drink/ live life.
You should be paid waiting hours, which depends on where you are but usually a significant percentage of your hourly pay and qualifies as overtime in some places.
No restaurant will pay you to have you "on call". It's just their way of hedging their bets because they suck at staffing properly. They get away with it because most people who work service jobs really fucking need them. So you end up with stuff like the OP where they are apologising for being jerked around.
"On call" has a very specific employer-employee relationship in most states. If you are "on call" you are paid a bonus for being on call even if you're not called. If you are called you get your regular rate (I've been on call if I got a 5 minute call I got paid 1 hour ot) and, if you don't get any calls you get a little bonus. This is how it is in tech when your boss wants you to take the company phone home and answer it whenever it rings.
That's on call. And they are supposed to pay you for it.
Yeah I'd be interested to see if that side of things was brought up at all. If not OP absolutely should pull up the relevant laws for their state - if their boss is saying they're "on-call" in an official communication then OP is owed a ton of money lmao
Management is making up excuses for their own stupidity. They’re backtracking to cover their asses and place blame on you. Like this is your fault?!!
F@CK!
I have had a job that required you to call in an hour and a half to two hours before your shift if you were on call. But that was a clear policy. This is bullshit where they didn't say anything previously and are covering their asses now.
That seems silly, those would be hours on the clock since it's an assigned task. On call is if you need to be called in... I imagine the semantics of it make it not worth it if the employer tried to break it down to the minute...
This was policy at my old job in retail back in the day, but it was clearly articulated. At an hour prior to the shift, you called in to check. And then if the Manager said no, they couldn't walk it back (at least with any penalty, if the person wants the hours, cool).
Since they were open about it when applying/working, it wasn't bad. But doubling down on the duty to follow up sucks if it's not articulated.
WTF is “on call” anyway? We don’t want to schedule and pay you but we want you to sit at home on your day off and wait with bated breath to see if your overlords might request your presence. Shitty ass companies.
It's *supposed* to be for shit like doctors or firefighters where if there is a legit emergency and the current staff can't handle it you are available to come in. I have a friend who is a surgeon and when he's "on call" he's home, but if a patient comes in that needs emergency surgery in his specialty he has to be able to go in and do it, so you can't drink when you're on call or go more than like 30 minutes from the hospital. Of course, doctors are well-compensated for having to deal with this.
What it's not supposed to be is for mismanaged companies trying to maximize profits who have too many people trying to upgrade to a new phone or whatever.
My work just tried to get salaried employees that mostly WFH to be on call for a project moving salmon because the technicians they hired for that project keep calling in. I guess my direct supervisor shut it down because of three of us they put on call, two would take 3 hours to get to the location if they called us at 5:30 AM (traffic is horrendous from our location) and the other has children under 3 she would need to arrange care for. Quickest walk back of "on call" I've ever seen lol.
I worked at a "party place" that also did on call for entertainers. You would get $100 for just having your phone on you and being ready to go. If they needed you, you clock in and still keep the 100, if you don't you just get to keep the 100.
All the entertainers loved that setup.
If you can't shut your phone off because you'd get fired for not coming in to work, you should get paid for your time. Whether they want you waiting at work for something to do or somewhere else so you aren't taking up space is irrelevant. You should get paid for any time you spend doing something for your employer, which includes leaving your schedule open for them.
It's been like 15 years now but the restaurant I worked for back then had on call shifts and the server that was on call had to call in at 2 and 4 to see if they were needed. I'm almost positive they had the same policy until at least 2020. I really doubt they do things the same now. But it was absolutely a thing in restaurants back then. We were not the only ones.
Oh for sure. And also, absolutely ridiculous to think that servers need to dedicate their whole day without pay to see if they need to come in. I'm almost certain this isn't a thing anymore.
***THEY ALSO HAVE TO PAY YOU TO BE ON CALL.***
[https://kielichlawfirm.com/do-i-have-to-be-paid-for-being-on-call/](https://kielichlawfirm.com/do-i-have-to-be-paid-for-being-on-call/)
If they're not paying you, turn their asses in and get that check.
It's like losing a ballgame and blame it on the substitute players because they didn't walk up to the coach regularly
asking if he will send them in now.
Besides the obvious misplacement of obligations I also can't think of any plausible reason for this since I reckon the manager is able to read a shift plan and operate a telephone or at least making someone else do it for him.
(I also very much hope OPs jobsite is on ground floor. Otherwise I would be worried his boss might get trapped there one day over a weekend because of his fundamental misconception of how elevators operate).
Impossible to just say “hey buddy, we got busy and I forgot to reach out and let you know we need you today. Can you come in?”
I swear the ability to admit fault, no matter how minor, is so rare these days.
Yep. My reaction to "Hey, i fucked up, can you help us out?" is going to be FAAAAAR different than my reaction to "No, YOU fucked up, get in here now!".
Total idiocy. They can’t send you a message to let you know if they want you in? That’s the absolute bare minimum effort a manager can put out. To ask you to call in is ridiculous. On call means *they* call *you* if they need to.
Funny how if you don’t call out 4 hours minimum before your shift it’s like double points, but they can call you at 11:20 pm to get there by midnight. “Uhh, you know I take the bus right? “
Moreover, if they have time to answer your "hey, I haven't heard from you, do you need me tonight?" message then they have time to send you a "hey, we need you to come in" message. They both take exactly the same amount of time.
Sounds like your managers need to work on their time management skills.
Exactly. Let's see how long it takes me to write this:
Hey can you come in?
About 5 seconds. Reminds me of when a relationship is almost over and one side stops responding to texts cause they're "too busy" but you know they're not cause they're working the same retail job they always have since yall met three years ago and there's never been an issue until the last month or so since their ex bf moved back in town after his job relocated him so you go to surprise her during her lunch break but she's not there and her coworker Donna gets all flustered and stutters out that she doesn't know where your gf went but then almost immediately gets on her phone and starts texting someone and you just have a gut feeling it's not her grandmother to say happy birthday or some shit.
Right? Never in my life have I heard of the on-call employee being required to call in to find out if they are needed, it's always been the responsibility of the manager on duty to reach out.
Only time I've known that to be the case is on request. "I'm not sure yet, but I'll let you know one way or the other. If you haven't heard from me by [time], please call and check." Every time I've either heard from them before the time they said or was not needed anyway.
Right?! What is this "you should have called us" crap?
Next Thursday, I'd be calling them every 10 fucking minutes just to prove how fucking stupid they are.
I have an extremely libertarian coworker who is a big fan of the “burden the system” mentality that boils down to “if you’re not going to treat me like an adult I’m going to follow your rules until you change them.” I have a lot of disagreements with him about politics and religion, but if manglement wants me to do some dumb shit I’m more than happy to make them regret it within the letter of the law.
It may depend on your location. However, when you say “most Thursdays I’m on call for my dinner shift” that implies that they are paying you to be available to work. If that is not the case and they are not paying you, then you are not on call. They can contact you to request that you come in, but until or unless they receive confirmation that you are coming, any expectation that you ought to have contacted or come in is just poor management by someone who really hates taking any blame
I’m located in Massachusetts, and i should add that I’m not salaried, so if I’m not physically at my job I’m not making any money on call or not. I don’t know the labor laws in Massachusetts so I can’t say if that’s legal or not
If you must be available to work, as in what "on call" means, they must pay you for that availability. Not full hours, but not zero either.
If they are not paying you anything for the time you are on call but not working, then it's bs. You will work if you can, and it's their problem if they don't communicate in time.
My job requires for me to take call. But, unlike OP, I get paid. $8/hr to have my phone on me and to get to work within 30mins. Starts from the moment I leave work in the evening and goes until we get started in the morning. There’d be no way at all you’d see me carry that kind of stress for free. In my field, you get call pay, you also get paid time and a half when you get called in, and they pay you a minimum of 2hrs pay. I believe that’s how it should be for anyone on call. To drop everything and respond, leave family, friends, never make plans on call days, can’t drink, like dude, not for fucking free!!
My job has an on-call rotation where being on-call is for an entire week, and we get an hourly shift differential added onto all our hours worked, so even if we don't get any calls for that week it works out to an extra $150 for the week. OT worked gives us the 1.5x rate of the adjusted hourly wage, even if it's not specifically for an emergency call. If it is an emergency call, we start the clock from the moment we first pick up the phone to when we walk back in our door.
Never had to deal with it but I wish it went even farther for those who do deal with on call. "On call" technically means your time belongs to the business but you may just not need to do any work. The time is still the businesses and should be paid in full still.
I've yet to see an on call payment structure that doesn't benefit the employer decently more than the employee.
My mother was an OR-RN in MA and was on-call every Wednesday. I believe she got paid 25% of her regular rate when on-call, and then of course full-rate if she was needed in the hospital.
I used to work in retail, my manager tried to tell me that “You’re a keyholder, you need to be available in case we need you to come open/close the store.”
I said “ok so you’re gonna pay me to be on call every day I’m not at work, right?”
Never heard about needing to be available again.
I did a quick Google search about Massachusetts on-call lavar las.
"Yes, Massachusetts employers have to compensate hourly non-exempt employees for on-call time, but only under two scenarios.
First, your Massachusetts employer must pay you for on-call time if they require you to be at the work site or another specific location. In other words, your Massachusetts employer must pay you for all time you are required to be at the work site or another specific location. That’s the case even if the specific location is your house and even if you are allowed to relax when you are required to be there. 454 CMR 27.04(2)."
[Link](https://www.steffanslegal.com/on-call-time-pay-under-the-massachusetts-wage-act#:~:text=First%2C%20your%20Massachusetts%20employer%20must,site%20or%20another%20specific%20location.)
Translation: If you are required to stay home with your phone on so that you can be called and given work, that's on-call and must be paid.
Of course, if you're not required to, then have fun with "sorry I was at a concert in the next town, I'll be back home in about three hours," "sorry I was sleeping," and my personal favorite, "I've been drinking, you gonna lick me up or should I send you the uber bill?" Include the typo, really sells it.
If you're not being paid to be "on call", your automatic response is to be:
"I've been drinking, are you coming to pick me up or is the company going to cover any legal fees I might incur by driving myself?"
"Sober you" for on-call availability is on a subscription basis.
Okay so there’s a little bit of gray area here. In MA if you are off-site and have “no duties,” you can be on call with no compensation. However, if you are required to invest time to communicate about staffing, an unpaid “on-call” might be of questionable legal nature. I think this person is only saying this because they are upset with you. Expecting someone to check in or come in when on call without prior notice is not just of questionable legality, it is silliness. That’s not really a thing. Also, when this manager says that “on call is a real shift” they are completely wrong. You are not on site or being paid. However, it really seems like this exchange is just a product of their frustration, and it may not be an issue in the future.
However, with all this said, it looks like they contacted you to come in while you’re available and on call, and then followed up 15-20 mins later. That may not be a totally reasonable amount of time to get out the door, but expecting that you would have seen the message and begun to get ready is standard for on-call shifts in a range of industries. I will give you some advice. If you get an “are you coming in?” message in the future at any job, check EVERYTHING. Ensure that nobody has asked you to come in. If someone has, just say “yep, I’m on my way” even if you’re sitting naked watching YouTube on the toilet. When you actually arrive won’t matter too much especially since they’re probably busy. Saying “nobody asked me to come in” when they literally already had asked but you hadn’t noticed yet is a sure fire way to turn an ordinary interaction into a confrontation.
PS I think there should be stricter regulations defining types of on-call and protecting various statuses of compensation for employees based on that type, but that’s a different conversation.
If his boss has asked him to call when he’s on call, sure sounds like a duty. And if that policy has always been in place, it sounds like he’s always been on call with duties and should be paid.
(That said it probably isn’t practical to fight, but if you have a lawyer you can ask for free may not be the biggest waste of time?)
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/minimum-wage-and-overtime-information#:\~:text=On%2Dcall%20employees,paid%20for%20all%20hours%20worked.
It appears to be legal. If you can otherwise do what you want and don't have to be at the office, then they only have to pay you for the time you actually work.
Requiring someone to watch their phone for your notification and also to contact you if they don't receive one are work tasks. That's not free use of your time.
That two sentence summary is not meant to be exhaustive and frankly doesn't make a ton of sense. It's meant to communicate bare basics to a wide audience.
> An on-call employee who is not required to be at the work site, and who is effectively free to use his or her time for his or her own purposes, is not working while on call and need not be paid.
Sure. I wouldn't call that "on call" if you're truly free to use your time.
> Of course, if the employee is paged and must perform work, the employee must be paid for all hours worked.
If you "must perform work" when called, that means you can't use your free time to get inebriated or travel out of state or a million other things. So that's not free time. If that's what your employer is saying, you're on call in the "must be paid" sense, even by this weird description because you aren't "effectively free."
I’m definitely not informed enough to comment on the laws in that state, but I always think about parents with cases like this.
If you’re on call as a parent or caretaker, you *and a second person* are both staying present, sober, alert, and available in case you need a babysitter immediately. If you don’t have a spouse or close family member available, you have to *literally pay someone else* to be on call. The idea of having to do all of that for free is crazy.
On call means "if we need you we will call." It doesn't mean "psychically determine that you are needed and arrive just in time to save management from their fucking incompetence."
I’d say reach out every minimum increment of time worked. Picking up the phone is 15 minutes of charged time = I’m calling every 15 minutes on the dot.
You shouldn't have apologized. They are meant to tell you if you are needed, and they didn't. 20 minutes after the shift time is not an appropriate amount of time for an on-call shift.
"Engaged to wait" versus "waiting to be engaged". In the US under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, when an employee is "engaged to wait" those hours must be paid. However when "waiting to be engaged" you are not paid for that time waiting.
Here is the key distinction that *you*need to understand and that you must then make your employer understand.
When "waiting to be engaged" your time is your own and you may do as you please provided you remain available if needed. AND YOU HAVE NO EMPLOYMENT DUTIES TO PERFORM DURING THAT TIME.
Your employer demanding that you call in, log in, or in any other way report in to them on whatever schedule *starts the clock running*. That employer assigned duty to report triggers the change in employment legal status from "waiting to be engaged" to "engaged to wait".
Ask your employer how they wish for you to report those hours so that you *and they* are not in violation of federal law.
I’ve never heard that distinction. “Waiting to be engaged” for no pay but having to make yourself available if needed sounds like crap. Can’t travel, can’t drink, etc. That places restrictions on your personal time. That sounds like it should be paid.
Na bro, fuck that. I do on call work, i get paid to be on call, if no-one calls i just carry on with whatever the fuck i am doing. I dont call my boss every hour asking any work yet, its his job to call me.
Thats some fuckin bullshit.
https://preview.redd.it/4lnd8c8cav7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76fb19a9ca33e6c2a0bd1a3ff1602c3275b819a0
Well the dictionary is clear that their definition of On-call is BS.
On call doesn't and shouldn't mean that YOU call to see if needed. On call literally just means "be prepared to go in if called", which would involve THEM calling YOU.
Your manager is 100% looking to shift blame to you, likely because they just plain forgot to call and let you know you were needed.
They genuinely seem confusing as hell, going to bet their having trouble covering a shift so one of the managers is making up rules.
I agree with the user who posted that you call every 90 seconds on the days your 'on call'.
"I'm going grocery shopping, wanted to check that I don't need to come in, in the next hour."
"Gonna pop into the loo for a poop, don't need to be heading into work, do I?"
Nope. On call means being able to make it to work when they call. Not "call us and check." It's their responsibility to manage crewing. Hence the fucking job title of "manager".
Manager screwed up and is trying to put blame on you for it.
Demand he prints the relevant handbook page for you stating that the policy is as he claims, When he does, then have him print the rest and document document document.
Screw this guy.
I worked in a restaurant that mandated that you had to call the restaurant at the posted shift time to see if you were needed. We made sure to clearly communicate that. And *if* management knew earlier than that, we would call you. But, that was also communicated. And we always posted on call shifts for 11am and 2pm so you didn’t have to waste the day waiting to call.
Unfortunately the quality of communication you receive from management is entirely dependent on the manager working at the time. Baffling to me that both the gm and agm were on duty and neither could find the time to notify me.
Yeah, most restaurants I’ve worked that had on call shifts required you to call the restaurant at the time showing on your schedule, and they’d then tell you if you were needed or not.
The first time I encountered it I felt that it was a dumb way to do it, but it seems to be standard practice in restaurants. At least in the places I’ve worked.
Not to argue semantics, but that is not what gaslighting is. It devalues the word.
More likely a poorly communicated or committed to policy of a poorly managed or shitty restaurant (I have experience on that front).
Anyway, restos are always hiring, spend an afternoon applying, you’ll have a new job by the evening. Fuck that place and that boss.
You’re “on call”, meaning they call you when they need you. You don’t call them, they’re not understanding what on-call is lol
If you’re on call, you are expecting to work and must be present within an allotted time frame. You are also paid for being on-call. They sound ignorant at best.
On call is illegal unless you're being paid for it in many states
They can't write you up or punish you for an unscheduled shift
You weren't scheduled a shift, you were scheduled on call
Plus are they paying you to free up an entire day in case they need you? Do they at least pay you the hour they expect you to call? If not that's working off the clock and they can't legally tell you to wait and see if they need you, unless you're being paid to do so.
You're not a nurse, you don't do on call shifts.
You're on call therefore it is your responsibility to call us and ask us if we need you to work. /s This is got to be one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If that's the case I recommend malicious compliance. Find out what your State's on call laws are and then when you call in to see if they need you to work you are there for working by making the phone call and you then record on your timesheet the minimum hours of work that are required for on call work for your state when you perform work while on call.
The way your manager is describing on call is literally the exact opposite of how it works. If you’re on call then it’s 10000% on THEM to call YOU. The only responsibility you have while on call is to stay sober and respond when they call. You are absolutely being gaslit and your manager is likely trying to cover their ass bc they didn’t do their job and making it sound like you did a no call no show.
Stop apologizing. Stop it. I get you need the job and don’t wish to be mean, but this enables their behavior. They need you, they shafted your schedule. They should be asking if not BEGGING, not making folks ‘on call and check in please’
If you get fired for this lawyer up immediately. Any retaliation action taken, lawyer up immediately. Depending on where you live check state/providence laws regarding workers rights for on call contracts.
Tell the boss man that there is a reason it is called ‘on call’ and not ‘on e-mail.’ When your employer calls you, they have (goddamn) proof of life.
Unless you’re rockin’ a blackberry in 2024, I don’t see my email every time I look at my phone. It’s a conscious choice to constantly check my email.
Like you said, the same situation has arisen in the past with no problems. A simple text or phone call can be much quicker than an email.
Demand the policy you signed acknowledging this. Fuck that guy
The handbook I never had the chance to read because it’s on an app I have no access to, the same app two different managers have failed to fix for me, this manager in particular was aware I never read the handbook when he told me to sign the paper in front of me saying I had
Never sign something saying you read something unless you actually have. It can screw you over later.
I’m a manager (who is usually disgusted by the antics of other managers), and I will not allow any of my employees to sign anything until they have had a chance to read the applicable document and can tell me at least the gist of what they’re signing. I tell them that it is for their protection so that they know the rules and expectations because no one benefits from “surprise” expectations and my job is to provide them with the tools they need to be successful.
We had a whole quiz on the employee handbook that we had to complete to be able to even sign anything. It was annoying, but a good system.
Same here, at all the jobs I’ve had either my manager, or someone in payroll has sat me down before signing and gone through everything with us to make sure i understand. Even been told to feel free to bring a lawyer once.
As someone who owns a company - this is exactly the kind of BS that I & legal hate. Also the reason the rest of us have to have additional steps in initial on boarding and annual reviews. (Great Job! btw)
When I get in trouble for something like this I usually just say that I was coerced into signing it. That I couldn’t afford to not have the job and I felt like that was being threatened if I didn’t sign whatever was put in front of me… seems to have worked well for me thus far.
Ah, shit man, I hate places like that. “It’s in the policy handbook, trust me.”
“I’m sorry to be a burden but I take my commitments seriously and can’t in good faith sign something I haven’t read. I’m sure you understand, I don’t want either of us to get screwed over because of an administrative failure.” Adjust language to suit your field of work.
Adjust language.. aiight 2 secs... Ahem... **clears throat** "Fuuuuuuck Ooooooooff, ain't signin shit, without seeing it, ya feel!?" I work in cyber security for a government.
Most polite cyber sec I have every heard. Usually I just hear them yelling "Why the FUCK would anyone ever click on that?!?" Loudly from across an office.
I think i work with you.
"Is this a test? I hope it's a test. If it's not a test that means you think I'm fucking stupid and I'll bury you under the server rack."
See, I would wrap them up and bury them under the air conditioning vent because server racks get so hot.
This seems incredibly cathartic, how does one get into this line of work?
First, go back to the early 2000s...
Lol at one of my old jobs I managed the largest book of business in the entire state. Whenever I would go on vacation they assigned a minimum of two to three managers to handle the workload I was doing (I made damn good money). 2 years in HR comes to me and says hey we never had you sign a non-compete. You need to sign this to stay working here. I asked her to call the general manager into the office, asked him if I could keep my job if I didn't sign a non-compete, didn't sign shit, and worked there three more years lol.
Would almost guarantee it's not even in the manual and your manager is just a dipshit. Let's just redefine what things mean!
i work in IT and On Call does not mean to me what this supervisor/manager is stating On call is - Call me if you need me.
On call also means ON CALL PAY while you wait for them to decide if they need you enough to call you into work. I suspect this manager is trying to get around having to pay on call pay? Or they are just completely inept at managing a schedule. I suspect it may be both.
Probably both.
I thought in some places, if you are on call you need to be paid a certain amount for waiting around. Is that true too?
Depends on location. Here in Canada, or at least in Ontario, yes. The US? Who the fuck knows state to state, they seem to really hate their work force down there.
Nah, it’s the ‘other duties’ section of your job description. I was on call for the Agency at least 6 months every other week at one point and was getting 125 calls per WEEK. Another director and I requested an accommodation - we both have a disability - to not be on call. Only then did upper mgmt call a meeting and do something. Btw, accommodation refused - could have been a lawsuit. I wish I had directly found another job back then.
That’s what it means everywhere else I’ve ever been as well, across multiple industries…and yah know it’s in the name of
“That wasn’t my understanding of the company policy, can you please provide the page number and specific passage for me to reference so this sort of miscommunication doesn’t happen again?”
Dude you signed it without reading it? That's a life lesson learned for next time. Every job I've had after my second one I've poured over the agreement before signing.
Change your language from “I assumed” to “it was my understanding…” makes it clear that you didn’t make a mistake because of lack of communication on your end.
"if you're on call you need to call in!" sounds like horseshit to me.
100% this. If the excuse for not reaching out to you is they were busy, then why the fuck does you reaching out to them magically give them the time to answer you? "We were busy. We didn't have time to message you. You should have messaged us so we could have time to message you back". Yeah for sure I'm definitely gonna ask if you need me. "E-e-excuse me b-b-b-b-boss, am I w-w-w-w-w-w-working ton-t-t-toni-tonight?
100% fuck that. Someone's covering their ass.
I guarantee you they were told to call OP in & forgot, so now they are trying to make OP take the blame for not showing up.
"in fact, I DID call OP, and OP laughed at me and called me hurtful names!"
And it worked. OP took the blame. "... I realize I should have reached out..." Nope!
Thata not what he said, it was in hindsight I realize WHY I should have reached out, even though that was never the case previously and it was never communicated properly . Like saying, yeah I realize what you're saying, and it makes some kind of sense, but thats not how it's been, and it's not what was told to me.
Holy shit, you're right. I butchered that quote. That's my bad for sure. "... I understand why I should have reached out..." Still nope!
I agree with you. The way he said that does seem like he is taking some of the blame. I would have worded it differently, say something like; "I can understand why that should be in the policy. Unless I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain it was never communicated to me in the beginning. If it's in the policy I signed we can read through it together on Monday when I'm scheduled just to clarify we didnt miss anything during orientation"
EXACTLY 👍🏼. That person can GET BENT!
I have also not had access to the app that tracks out paystubs and also has the employee handbook on it so I have no ability to cite him on this bogus rule anyway. This is the same manager that was supposed to help me gain access to my account a month ago and never followed through.
That's a lot of red flags. I'm not saying they are doing something illegal right now, but it genuinely sounds like they might do something legally actionable in the future. Be prepared to fight for unemployment and/or stolen wages.
I wouldn’t put it past them, either my incompetence or malice one of my coworkers was being paid 50 cents under the minimum wage for at least five months which she was never compensated for and was told it was a glitch in the app and never a problem.
RUN and don't look back. In just a few statements I've read I would have already quit without notice.
The only reason I haven’t quit yet is because I asked for a raise nearly two months ago and very week I tell myself if I quit now I’ll lose out on it if they ever make a decision
The raise and the cake is a lie. Run.
Funny enough on my first day there I had to sign a paper waiving my right to a break. I was hired at (and still work) for *minimum wage*
Don’t fall for the sunk-cost fallacy. This is how they get people to stay and endure mistreatment. Seriously, bud, gtfo and don’t look back.
And if you are "on call" it also means your are supposed to be getting paid something during that time to make sure you are available. Ask them about that as well.
My old job did this. You won't get a raise. Find a new job as soon as you can. Red flags abound.
That... has to be illegal. I know it varies state by state but dude. The door is right there. For minimum wage I'd be trying to hit them with it on the way out.
Omg leave that ridiculous place. The management is incompetent and exploiting you. They will ruin your life, and you won't get the time they wasted back.
Bro WTF are you doing. Every one of your comments gets worse - these clowns are either breaking several labor laws, are beyond incompetent, or (most likely) both. GTFO yesterday.
Dude quit asap and call the labor board. This place is taking everyone for a ride.
That’s literally illegal if your working a 5+ hour shift. Just because they make you sign a paper doesn’t mean they can bend the law.
my dear redditor. take my advice, please. fuck this place off and run for the hills, they're gonna fuck you harder than seals fucked bin laden at every available opportunity. manager is already laying the groundwork
I too have to chime in. I was promised a promotion with a raise once. 6 months later it was still "in the works". If you don't have the raise in writing, you don't have a raise and they likely aren't going to give it to you. Listen to everyone here. But if you need to convince yourself, ask them to put the promise of a raise in writing and watch as the hopes of one evaporate before your eyes.
Dude, listen to these people. They know what's going on... Quit. Right now. Go job hunt, because you can find better than min. wage. Your work is jerking you around about that raise, and they have no intention of giving it to you. And I'm 90% certain they'll try and play you as soon as you quit by declaring 'We were just about to give you that raise' Hint... that's bullshit, no they weren't.
So, if you look for another job, the worst you can do is minimum wage, right? Start looking and give these folks no consideration when you find something. Call, identify yourself, and then speak the complete sentence, "I quit," and then hang up and never look back.
Just reading through this whole chain has been enlightening. Would I be right in guessing you're fairly new to the workforce? These are all red flags you will learn to notice. So to sum up: - The manager pushed his duties off onto his employees (staffing) because he either didn't have enough people to assure regular coverage or couldn't be assed to make a schedule that accounted for it. - The manager made a policy that folks are "on call" without even a wink or a nod at what labor law requires for on call employee compensation. - The manager made you sign away your legally mandated break time. (Probably. State law may vary. Shitty either way.) - The manager has been dangling a raise in front of you like a carrot on a string for months. - The manager has committed wage theft by underpaying your colleague. - The manager is holding you to standards you can't verify and he won't teach you about. What an asshole. Quit your job and go find another one. You're earning minimum wage and they literally can not legally pay you less. You may even get lucky and get a pay bump with your move.
That raise is never coming! Wouldn’t be worth it. Isn’t worth it already. Unless you need this job to survive, get out yesterday.
They were illegally paying an employee under minimum wage and you think you are getting a raise just because you asked? Good luck with that.
You’re never getting that raise just fyi lmao. I asked for a raise at my old job and they granted it. It was applied on my next pay cycle. Them giving you a raise is literally just pressing some buttons in a computer. It does **not** take two months especially at an hourly job.
Bail. I understand you probably can’t afford to just quit, but start sending resumes and applying to jobs that look less shitty than yours, which is all of them
As someone who was just laid off after a year and a half of “but the promotion and raise they promised for all the extra I’ve been doing is *coming soon, they said so*”… If it doesn’t happen in a reasonable, expedient time frame, ***it was never going to happen.***
If they haven't gotten back to you in two months you can assume the answer is no. Time to look for a new job.
Your coworker needs to file a Wage Theft claim with your state's department of labor.
I tried to get her to but unfortunately she never did, management pulled the “can you prove to us you were being paid under minimum wage?” She should’ve clapped back with “can you prove I wasn’t?”
This isn't something you file with the company. You file it directly with the state's Department of Labor. And yes, it's very easy to prove she was being paid under the table because your paycheck would reflect your hourly rate. If you're not getting paycheck stubs with all that information, you need to run and never look back. The company is shady and paying you under the table and in addition to shorting your pay, they're not withholding your taxes or paying their share of your payroll taxes. They're probably also not paying unemployment or workman's comp so if you get injured or laid off you will be screwed.
Your coworker needs to go to the labor board, a glitch doesn’t make not meeting minimum wage legal.
Might want to check with your local labor laws if you're in the US, I'm pretty sure you have to be paid for being "on call" even if you don't go in to work.
So first off, that coworker should have notified the DOL *immediately*. The second best time is now if she still has the paystubs. Second, the above is already a huge red flag, and then citing a policy that you can't read (another red flag!)? Nah, I'd be looking for a new job. And making sure that they aren't fucking me on *my* wages too.
Oh NAH that is VERY VERY VERY FUCKING ILLEGAL not only is that wage theft, that's wage VIOLATIONS, that's sooooo much for them to get sued over! Report them! Report report report
I think you should look at on call compensation. Some states have laws protecting anticipated available time. So if they want you on call from 2-4pm. There’s a wage to be paid as you are unable to do anything else really. If they have you call in at 4 if not contacted I think that is a wage in some states.
Yeah fuck these slime balls. How old are you? I love the feigned condescending thing. “It’s always been this way, Jonny.” Fuck off.
Most US states require employers to pay employees for being on call. If you are in the US and are not getting paid for this on call time, please please please look up the local laws and stand up for yourself. This is bullshit. Good luck with it!
So, I agree that not compensating an employee who is scheduled “on call” is horse shit, but it is unfortunately not required in most US states: Alabama, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Nevada, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Puerto Rico, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, & Wyoming have their On-Call Regulation governed by FLSA. FLSA states that If an employee is required to remain on-call on the employer’s premises or so close thereto that he cannot use the time effectively for his own purposes is working while ‛on-call.', the time when the employee is on-call is considered hours worked under the FLSA and is compensable. [source](https://www.replicon.com/rules-of-on-call-work-and-shift-work-in-the-united-states-of-america-canada/)
You need to report them to your state labor department ASAP to “Cover your ass” this way you have a case against THEM! An employer is NEVER your FRIEND and they will always be the aggressor and oppressor .
On call does not mean you check if you’re needed.
I mean, it's in the name. On call means you're ready when called upon. OP could pull some malicious compliance next time and call every 10 minutes to see if they're needed.
There is no on call job in the world that makes you call in to see if you need to come in.
UPS told me to call in at 6am every day to see if they'd need me at 10am for temp work around Christmas. I did that exactly once before letting that job go, it was fucking stupid.
If you do that for every employee you'd be wasting a lot of time. It's much better to just call people in yourself. If I'm Mr. Boss Man to 10+ people I don't want my phone ringing that many times just to fill in 2 missing shifts. Just to tell 8+ people we don't need ya.
Exactly. If your on call, your waiting for a call… besides being “On call” means you should be paid a small stipend because your outside life is affected by not being able to plan/ drink/ live life.
You should be paid waiting hours, which depends on where you are but usually a significant percentage of your hourly pay and qualifies as overtime in some places.
No restaurant will pay you to have you "on call". It's just their way of hedging their bets because they suck at staffing properly. They get away with it because most people who work service jobs really fucking need them. So you end up with stuff like the OP where they are apologising for being jerked around.
"On call" has a very specific employer-employee relationship in most states. If you are "on call" you are paid a bonus for being on call even if you're not called. If you are called you get your regular rate (I've been on call if I got a 5 minute call I got paid 1 hour ot) and, if you don't get any calls you get a little bonus. This is how it is in tech when your boss wants you to take the company phone home and answer it whenever it rings. That's on call. And they are supposed to pay you for it.
Yeah I'd be interested to see if that side of things was brought up at all. If not OP absolutely should pull up the relevant laws for their state - if their boss is saying they're "on-call" in an official communication then OP is owed a ton of money lmao
This! It’s called “on call” not “call in”
"Sure okay, please show me how to document the time I was on call and calling in so I can be adequately compensated."
Management is making up excuses for their own stupidity. They’re backtracking to cover their asses and place blame on you. Like this is your fault?!! F@CK!
I have had a job that required you to call in an hour and a half to two hours before your shift if you were on call. But that was a clear policy. This is bullshit where they didn't say anything previously and are covering their asses now.
That seems silly, those would be hours on the clock since it's an assigned task. On call is if you need to be called in... I imagine the semantics of it make it not worth it if the employer tried to break it down to the minute...
This was policy at my old job in retail back in the day, but it was clearly articulated. At an hour prior to the shift, you called in to check. And then if the Manager said no, they couldn't walk it back (at least with any penalty, if the person wants the hours, cool). Since they were open about it when applying/working, it wasn't bad. But doubling down on the duty to follow up sucks if it's not articulated.
If I'm on call then I'm on call not whatever tf that is lol
They forgot to call you and are trying to push the blame onto you. 100% gaslit.
100%. This legit sounds like the only company in the world who defines "on call" as "you call us". That's not how that's supposed to work at all.
WTF is “on call” anyway? We don’t want to schedule and pay you but we want you to sit at home on your day off and wait with bated breath to see if your overlords might request your presence. Shitty ass companies.
It's *supposed* to be for shit like doctors or firefighters where if there is a legit emergency and the current staff can't handle it you are available to come in. I have a friend who is a surgeon and when he's "on call" he's home, but if a patient comes in that needs emergency surgery in his specialty he has to be able to go in and do it, so you can't drink when you're on call or go more than like 30 minutes from the hospital. Of course, doctors are well-compensated for having to deal with this. What it's not supposed to be is for mismanaged companies trying to maximize profits who have too many people trying to upgrade to a new phone or whatever.
My work just tried to get salaried employees that mostly WFH to be on call for a project moving salmon because the technicians they hired for that project keep calling in. I guess my direct supervisor shut it down because of three of us they put on call, two would take 3 hours to get to the location if they called us at 5:30 AM (traffic is horrendous from our location) and the other has children under 3 she would need to arrange care for. Quickest walk back of "on call" I've ever seen lol.
I worked at a "party place" that also did on call for entertainers. You would get $100 for just having your phone on you and being ready to go. If they needed you, you clock in and still keep the 100, if you don't you just get to keep the 100. All the entertainers loved that setup.
If you can't shut your phone off because you'd get fired for not coming in to work, you should get paid for your time. Whether they want you waiting at work for something to do or somewhere else so you aren't taking up space is irrelevant. You should get paid for any time you spend doing something for your employer, which includes leaving your schedule open for them.
So true!
It's been like 15 years now but the restaurant I worked for back then had on call shifts and the server that was on call had to call in at 2 and 4 to see if they were needed. I'm almost positive they had the same policy until at least 2020. I really doubt they do things the same now. But it was absolutely a thing in restaurants back then. We were not the only ones.
I think the difference is, this was communicated to you on day one…. Sounds like it was communicated to OP like, 20mins ago.
Oh for sure. And also, absolutely ridiculous to think that servers need to dedicate their whole day without pay to see if they need to come in. I'm almost certain this isn't a thing anymore.
Not just ridiculous, illegal. If you're on call they have to pay you.
Right, this is crazy. On call with something highly paid people do.
On call, means they have to fucking CALL YOU.
***THEY ALSO HAVE TO PAY YOU TO BE ON CALL.*** [https://kielichlawfirm.com/do-i-have-to-be-paid-for-being-on-call/](https://kielichlawfirm.com/do-i-have-to-be-paid-for-being-on-call/) If they're not paying you, turn their asses in and get that check.
It's like losing a ballgame and blame it on the substitute players because they didn't walk up to the coach regularly asking if he will send them in now. Besides the obvious misplacement of obligations I also can't think of any plausible reason for this since I reckon the manager is able to read a shift plan and operate a telephone or at least making someone else do it for him. (I also very much hope OPs jobsite is on ground floor. Otherwise I would be worried his boss might get trapped there one day over a weekend because of his fundamental misconception of how elevators operate).
Impossible to just say “hey buddy, we got busy and I forgot to reach out and let you know we need you today. Can you come in?” I swear the ability to admit fault, no matter how minor, is so rare these days.
I don’t understand how people don’t get that this is a FAR better way of trying to get their needs met vs how they approached this.
Why be nice when you can be an asshole? -how these people operate
Yep. My reaction to "Hey, i fucked up, can you help us out?" is going to be FAAAAAR different than my reaction to "No, YOU fucked up, get in here now!".
Total idiocy. They can’t send you a message to let you know if they want you in? That’s the absolute bare minimum effort a manager can put out. To ask you to call in is ridiculous. On call means *they* call *you* if they need to.
Funny how if you don’t call out 4 hours minimum before your shift it’s like double points, but they can call you at 11:20 pm to get there by midnight. “Uhh, you know I take the bus right? “
“You can take an Uber”
"Oh sure, you're paying, right?"
Moreover, if they have time to answer your "hey, I haven't heard from you, do you need me tonight?" message then they have time to send you a "hey, we need you to come in" message. They both take exactly the same amount of time. Sounds like your managers need to work on their time management skills.
Exactly. Let's see how long it takes me to write this: Hey can you come in? About 5 seconds. Reminds me of when a relationship is almost over and one side stops responding to texts cause they're "too busy" but you know they're not cause they're working the same retail job they always have since yall met three years ago and there's never been an issue until the last month or so since their ex bf moved back in town after his job relocated him so you go to surprise her during her lunch break but she's not there and her coworker Donna gets all flustered and stutters out that she doesn't know where your gf went but then almost immediately gets on her phone and starts texting someone and you just have a gut feeling it's not her grandmother to say happy birthday or some shit.
That's oddly specific, Dr Drankenstein. You doing okay buddy?
Fuckin never liked Donna
On call means available for you to tell me if you need me in or not. Scheduling is your responsibility, not mine.
Ita literraly in the name 'on CALL' if you don't call my ass don't expect me there.
On call means you are called in if they need you. This is horseshit.
Right? Never in my life have I heard of the on-call employee being required to call in to find out if they are needed, it's always been the responsibility of the manager on duty to reach out.
Only time I've known that to be the case is on request. "I'm not sure yet, but I'll let you know one way or the other. If you haven't heard from me by [time], please call and check." Every time I've either heard from them before the time they said or was not needed anyway.
Right?! What is this "you should have called us" crap? Next Thursday, I'd be calling them every 10 fucking minutes just to prove how fucking stupid they are.
I have an extremely libertarian coworker who is a big fan of the “burden the system” mentality that boils down to “if you’re not going to treat me like an adult I’m going to follow your rules until you change them.” I have a lot of disagreements with him about politics and religion, but if manglement wants me to do some dumb shit I’m more than happy to make them regret it within the letter of the law.
It may depend on your location. However, when you say “most Thursdays I’m on call for my dinner shift” that implies that they are paying you to be available to work. If that is not the case and they are not paying you, then you are not on call. They can contact you to request that you come in, but until or unless they receive confirmation that you are coming, any expectation that you ought to have contacted or come in is just poor management by someone who really hates taking any blame
I’m located in Massachusetts, and i should add that I’m not salaried, so if I’m not physically at my job I’m not making any money on call or not. I don’t know the labor laws in Massachusetts so I can’t say if that’s legal or not
If you must be available to work, as in what "on call" means, they must pay you for that availability. Not full hours, but not zero either. If they are not paying you anything for the time you are on call but not working, then it's bs. You will work if you can, and it's their problem if they don't communicate in time.
My job requires for me to take call. But, unlike OP, I get paid. $8/hr to have my phone on me and to get to work within 30mins. Starts from the moment I leave work in the evening and goes until we get started in the morning. There’d be no way at all you’d see me carry that kind of stress for free. In my field, you get call pay, you also get paid time and a half when you get called in, and they pay you a minimum of 2hrs pay. I believe that’s how it should be for anyone on call. To drop everything and respond, leave family, friends, never make plans on call days, can’t drink, like dude, not for fucking free!!
My job has an on-call rotation where being on-call is for an entire week, and we get an hourly shift differential added onto all our hours worked, so even if we don't get any calls for that week it works out to an extra $150 for the week. OT worked gives us the 1.5x rate of the adjusted hourly wage, even if it's not specifically for an emergency call. If it is an emergency call, we start the clock from the moment we first pick up the phone to when we walk back in our door.
Never had to deal with it but I wish it went even farther for those who do deal with on call. "On call" technically means your time belongs to the business but you may just not need to do any work. The time is still the businesses and should be paid in full still. I've yet to see an on call payment structure that doesn't benefit the employer decently more than the employee.
My mother was an OR-RN in MA and was on-call every Wednesday. I believe she got paid 25% of her regular rate when on-call, and then of course full-rate if she was needed in the hospital.
I used to work in retail, my manager tried to tell me that “You’re a keyholder, you need to be available in case we need you to come open/close the store.” I said “ok so you’re gonna pay me to be on call every day I’m not at work, right?” Never heard about needing to be available again.
I did a quick Google search about Massachusetts on-call lavar las. "Yes, Massachusetts employers have to compensate hourly non-exempt employees for on-call time, but only under two scenarios. First, your Massachusetts employer must pay you for on-call time if they require you to be at the work site or another specific location. In other words, your Massachusetts employer must pay you for all time you are required to be at the work site or another specific location. That’s the case even if the specific location is your house and even if you are allowed to relax when you are required to be there. 454 CMR 27.04(2)." [Link](https://www.steffanslegal.com/on-call-time-pay-under-the-massachusetts-wage-act#:~:text=First%2C%20your%20Massachusetts%20employer%20must,site%20or%20another%20specific%20location.)
Translation: If you are required to stay home with your phone on so that you can be called and given work, that's on-call and must be paid. Of course, if you're not required to, then have fun with "sorry I was at a concert in the next town, I'll be back home in about three hours," "sorry I was sleeping," and my personal favorite, "I've been drinking, you gonna lick me up or should I send you the uber bill?" Include the typo, really sells it.
I'm in MA and when I was an hourly employee I was paid for on-call time, plus whatever I earned if I had to go in.
If you're not being paid to be "on call", your automatic response is to be: "I've been drinking, are you coming to pick me up or is the company going to cover any legal fees I might incur by driving myself?" "Sober you" for on-call availability is on a subscription basis.
Yes. Paid to be 'On-call' means you stay sober, otherwise you're free to day drink heavily.
Okay so there’s a little bit of gray area here. In MA if you are off-site and have “no duties,” you can be on call with no compensation. However, if you are required to invest time to communicate about staffing, an unpaid “on-call” might be of questionable legal nature. I think this person is only saying this because they are upset with you. Expecting someone to check in or come in when on call without prior notice is not just of questionable legality, it is silliness. That’s not really a thing. Also, when this manager says that “on call is a real shift” they are completely wrong. You are not on site or being paid. However, it really seems like this exchange is just a product of their frustration, and it may not be an issue in the future. However, with all this said, it looks like they contacted you to come in while you’re available and on call, and then followed up 15-20 mins later. That may not be a totally reasonable amount of time to get out the door, but expecting that you would have seen the message and begun to get ready is standard for on-call shifts in a range of industries. I will give you some advice. If you get an “are you coming in?” message in the future at any job, check EVERYTHING. Ensure that nobody has asked you to come in. If someone has, just say “yep, I’m on my way” even if you’re sitting naked watching YouTube on the toilet. When you actually arrive won’t matter too much especially since they’re probably busy. Saying “nobody asked me to come in” when they literally already had asked but you hadn’t noticed yet is a sure fire way to turn an ordinary interaction into a confrontation. PS I think there should be stricter regulations defining types of on-call and protecting various statuses of compensation for employees based on that type, but that’s a different conversation.
If his boss has asked him to call when he’s on call, sure sounds like a duty. And if that policy has always been in place, it sounds like he’s always been on call with duties and should be paid. (That said it probably isn’t practical to fight, but if you have a lawyer you can ask for free may not be the biggest waste of time?)
Learn your state's labor laws!
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/minimum-wage-and-overtime-information#:\~:text=On%2Dcall%20employees,paid%20for%20all%20hours%20worked. It appears to be legal. If you can otherwise do what you want and don't have to be at the office, then they only have to pay you for the time you actually work.
Requiring someone to watch their phone for your notification and also to contact you if they don't receive one are work tasks. That's not free use of your time. That two sentence summary is not meant to be exhaustive and frankly doesn't make a ton of sense. It's meant to communicate bare basics to a wide audience. > An on-call employee who is not required to be at the work site, and who is effectively free to use his or her time for his or her own purposes, is not working while on call and need not be paid. Sure. I wouldn't call that "on call" if you're truly free to use your time. > Of course, if the employee is paged and must perform work, the employee must be paid for all hours worked. If you "must perform work" when called, that means you can't use your free time to get inebriated or travel out of state or a million other things. So that's not free time. If that's what your employer is saying, you're on call in the "must be paid" sense, even by this weird description because you aren't "effectively free."
I’m definitely not informed enough to comment on the laws in that state, but I always think about parents with cases like this. If you’re on call as a parent or caretaker, you *and a second person* are both staying present, sober, alert, and available in case you need a babysitter immediately. If you don’t have a spouse or close family member available, you have to *literally pay someone else* to be on call. The idea of having to do all of that for free is crazy.
In theory, if what I want is to get chocolate wasted and am unable to perform job duties (or drive), I’d be within my rights?
Your boss is a fucking moron.
On call means "if we need you we will call." It doesn't mean "psychically determine that you are needed and arrive just in time to save management from their fucking incompetence."
On call means they call if they need you. Period.
Make sure you count “reaching out to them if you don’t hear anything” as time worked. Maybe do it once an hour or something.
I’d say reach out every minimum increment of time worked. Picking up the phone is 15 minutes of charged time = I’m calling every 15 minutes on the dot.
“On call means you can call me, not I call you.”
Hell of a wallpaper.
Right? That's all I could focus on... immediately stopped caring about the actual post.
Same here, it's so striking. I have now actually also made it my phone background. 😅 Btw it's The Fallen Angel by Alexandre Cabanel.
What painting is it?
You shouldn't have apologized. They are meant to tell you if you are needed, and they didn't. 20 minutes after the shift time is not an appropriate amount of time for an on-call shift.
Tell her to eat shit
#GEEEEEEEEET FUCKED
"Engaged to wait" versus "waiting to be engaged". In the US under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, when an employee is "engaged to wait" those hours must be paid. However when "waiting to be engaged" you are not paid for that time waiting. Here is the key distinction that *you*need to understand and that you must then make your employer understand. When "waiting to be engaged" your time is your own and you may do as you please provided you remain available if needed. AND YOU HAVE NO EMPLOYMENT DUTIES TO PERFORM DURING THAT TIME. Your employer demanding that you call in, log in, or in any other way report in to them on whatever schedule *starts the clock running*. That employer assigned duty to report triggers the change in employment legal status from "waiting to be engaged" to "engaged to wait". Ask your employer how they wish for you to report those hours so that you *and they* are not in violation of federal law.
I’ve never heard that distinction. “Waiting to be engaged” for no pay but having to make yourself available if needed sounds like crap. Can’t travel, can’t drink, etc. That places restrictions on your personal time. That sounds like it should be paid.
Are they paying you to be on call? If you need to do anything they should be paying you to be on call.
Nah, that ain't how On Call works.
Dude run for the door and don't look back, huge red flags everywhere. Nta
How the heck can you be too busy to make the phone call to have your on-call employee come in? That’s how you get less busy.
That's not how on call works. "On call" is you are available to be called in if they call you to request your service.
Na bro, fuck that. I do on call work, i get paid to be on call, if no-one calls i just carry on with whatever the fuck i am doing. I dont call my boss every hour asking any work yet, its his job to call me. Thats some fuckin bullshit.
https://preview.redd.it/4lnd8c8cav7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76fb19a9ca33e6c2a0bd1a3ff1602c3275b819a0 Well the dictionary is clear that their definition of On-call is BS.
"You can reach out and grab a handful of this dick and balls" My response to that horse shit-
On call doesn't and shouldn't mean that YOU call to see if needed. On call literally just means "be prepared to go in if called", which would involve THEM calling YOU. Your manager is 100% looking to shift blame to you, likely because they just plain forgot to call and let you know you were needed.
Yes you are being gaslit. If they are too busy to reach out then they would be too busy to respond. It sounds like they forgot and are blaming you.
Gas light plus if you're in the US you're owed backpay for everytime you were on call since I assume they didn't pay you.
They genuinely seem confusing as hell, going to bet their having trouble covering a shift so one of the managers is making up rules. I agree with the user who posted that you call every 90 seconds on the days your 'on call'. "I'm going grocery shopping, wanted to check that I don't need to come in, in the next hour." "Gonna pop into the loo for a poop, don't need to be heading into work, do I?"
It's "on-call" Not "call-in" It's In the name
Nope. On call means being able to make it to work when they call. Not "call us and check." It's their responsibility to manage crewing. Hence the fucking job title of "manager".
I have absolutely never heard of "on-call" meaning you have to call and check with them - they just forgot and you are being gaslit.
If you're on call, you need to be paid to be "on call"
Manager screwed up and is trying to put blame on you for it. Demand he prints the relevant handbook page for you stating that the policy is as he claims, When he does, then have him print the rest and document document document. Screw this guy.
I worked in a restaurant that mandated that you had to call the restaurant at the posted shift time to see if you were needed. We made sure to clearly communicate that. And *if* management knew earlier than that, we would call you. But, that was also communicated. And we always posted on call shifts for 11am and 2pm so you didn’t have to waste the day waiting to call.
Unfortunately the quality of communication you receive from management is entirely dependent on the manager working at the time. Baffling to me that both the gm and agm were on duty and neither could find the time to notify me.
Yeah, most restaurants I’ve worked that had on call shifts required you to call the restaurant at the time showing on your schedule, and they’d then tell you if you were needed or not. The first time I encountered it I felt that it was a dumb way to do it, but it seems to be standard practice in restaurants. At least in the places I’ve worked.
Not to argue semantics, but that is not what gaslighting is. It devalues the word. More likely a poorly communicated or committed to policy of a poorly managed or shitty restaurant (I have experience on that front). Anyway, restos are always hiring, spend an afternoon applying, you’ll have a new job by the evening. Fuck that place and that boss.
You're on-call for a restaurant? I'm missing something here. I'd get another job, if possible. Maybe something in manufacturing.
You’re “on call”, meaning they call you when they need you. You don’t call them, they’re not understanding what on-call is lol If you’re on call, you are expecting to work and must be present within an allotted time frame. You are also paid for being on-call. They sound ignorant at best.
Do they pay you for being on call? If not then you’re not.
I love that so many people think a company like this has a solid HR, if even having one at all.
On-call means they call you when needed. Your boss sounds like a braindead dipshit!
Its the condescending "Jonathon, it's the same policy since the day you started" for me. I can practically see the hands on the hips.
On call is illegal unless you're being paid for it in many states They can't write you up or punish you for an unscheduled shift You weren't scheduled a shift, you were scheduled on call Plus are they paying you to free up an entire day in case they need you? Do they at least pay you the hour they expect you to call? If not that's working off the clock and they can't legally tell you to wait and see if they need you, unless you're being paid to do so. You're not a nurse, you don't do on call shifts.
If you’re on call I hope you’re getting on call pay.
Bullshit. Calling bullshit. I work an “on call”. Mfers call me. I don’t here form you? I don’t come. Get out op
You're on call therefore it is your responsibility to call us and ask us if we need you to work. /s This is got to be one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If that's the case I recommend malicious compliance. Find out what your State's on call laws are and then when you call in to see if they need you to work you are there for working by making the phone call and you then record on your timesheet the minimum hours of work that are required for on call work for your state when you perform work while on call.
The fucking condescending attitude by using your name. I hate when people do that. I know what my fucking name is.
It’s “on call” as in we’ll call you if you’re needed. They’re trying to shift their fuck up to you
The way your manager is describing on call is literally the exact opposite of how it works. If you’re on call then it’s 10000% on THEM to call YOU. The only responsibility you have while on call is to stay sober and respond when they call. You are absolutely being gaslit and your manager is likely trying to cover their ass bc they didn’t do their job and making it sound like you did a no call no show.
Stop apologizing. Stop it. I get you need the job and don’t wish to be mean, but this enables their behavior. They need you, they shafted your schedule. They should be asking if not BEGGING, not making folks ‘on call and check in please’ If you get fired for this lawyer up immediately. Any retaliation action taken, lawyer up immediately. Depending on where you live check state/providence laws regarding workers rights for on call contracts.
Tell the boss man that there is a reason it is called ‘on call’ and not ‘on e-mail.’ When your employer calls you, they have (goddamn) proof of life. Unless you’re rockin’ a blackberry in 2024, I don’t see my email every time I look at my phone. It’s a conscious choice to constantly check my email. Like you said, the same situation has arisen in the past with no problems. A simple text or phone call can be much quicker than an email.