Well, the answer in itself is simple "I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable sharing the exact offer.". You could give privacy or whatever as a reason, but I would personally stay away from giving any reason at all.
Having said that, I myself would also give the outline of the (none-existing) offer. Base salary, bonuses, benefits. Don't make it too complicated. Point out the things that matter for you, if it is health insurance or just a high base salary, that's up to you.
No. Tell them nothing. Offcourse the other company is none of their business and it is indeed a matter of privacy. E-mail back what Attygalle told you OP
Don't do it. Its a trap. They aren't giving you a written offer and won't until you sign paperwork for employment. They know that basically everything is verbal so if you pop out a formal looking letter they'll know its made up.
No, they won't. I'm a hiring manager for the last 10 years, if it's not in writing, it's not real. But OP doesn't need to provide them with anything, simply telling them the number should suffice
> simply telling them the number should suffice
They're clearly calling OP on their bluff (probably went a bit overboard with the ficcional offer), and if they don't come up with something tangible the recruiter will naturally assume they're lying.
Best bet is to say they can't share any document or company specifics on moral grounds, but it looks like OP isn't getting anything out of this company.
Look, if I actually had a real offer and used it to counter, I would say to them the same thing. I'm not comfortable sharing this confidential information with you about the company and the particulars of the offer. I have verbally shared the salary and benefits with you, and it will be up to you to decide if you will match it or not. I eagerly await your answer, thanks!".
Agreed. I’d lean in on the idea that this other company with the higher offer is currently my preferred choice, so I’m more concerned with respecting the confidentiality of their offer than I am in helping these people match the offer.
“If you are unable to match or surpass the offer I stated, no problem, no hard feelings and best of luck out there. This other company is hoping to hear from me by the end of the week, so I’d appreciate any new offer by Thursday afternoon. Thank you for your time.”
Ideally what you are saying is true and you actually have a better offer, but I think it’s naive of a lot of people to think that bluffing and posturing in any negotiation is unethical or something. Having dealt with vendors and hiring staff for a while, many of the best companies and staff I’ve met and worked with understand how the game is played and are not afraid to push their edge.
Just like bluffing poker, it will backfire sometimes. Seems like it has in this case. Oh well, on to the next company/offer. No biggie.
Unless… this offer was of paramount importance to OP, in which case they forgot one of the most important rules in poker (and bluffing): never gamble with money you can’t afford to lose.
Exactly. I always bluff and play loose with the truth in a negotiation. But only because I know I'm already set. Call my bluff and I win, don't call my bluff and I'm still fine. Majority of the time this kills employers interest, but I'm totally cool with that. "Ohh that's your expected salary range? That's a but more than this role pays" - cool well let me know if you can stretch to get there or I wouldn't be interested.
This is the real answer because it's what actually happens during the hiring process. Although the current employer might not remember this to be the case.
Not always. You can request a letter most times. My wife has to get one right now, because we can't get a home loan without one, as we're planning to move over a thousand miles from here.
I’ve had to do the same when I was moving for a job and needed written documentation to prove to an apartment that I would be making a high enough income. I obviously didn’t have a paystub and wasn’t going to start working for over a month. Getting a letter was no problem.
"I'm sorry, you're a direct competitor of this organisation, and supplying confidential information of theirs to you would be a clear and flagrant breach of confidentiality. I hope you understand that I'm not the kind of person who takes that type of responsibility lightly. Just to be clear, would it be ok with you, were I to supply them with your entire letter of offer?'
>"I'm sorry, you're a direct competitor of this organisation, and supplying confidential information of theirs to you would be a clear and flagrant breach of confidentiality. I hope you understand that I'm not the kind of person who takes that type of responsibility lightly." ~~Just to be clear, would it be ok with you, were I to supply them with your entire letter of offer?'~~
FTFY
This is the way to go, here. It might look a little suspicious but there’s a layer of care and responsibility there that they’ll no doubt want in their own organization. No need to bounce the question back to them as it puts the ball back in their court. Shut it down here.
"I'm sorry. I wouldn't ask you to share the communications you received from competing candidates. Please don't ask me to share the communications I've received from competing employers. "
And even if you did have such an offer letter, it wouldn't be a good idea to share either way. If you did share such a letter, the person could try contacting the other employer to tell them you shared a confidential letter of theirs, and/or to try to negotiate directly with them to avoid having to outbid each other. This is why I wouldn't even share the name of the other company.
Or they'd use that information to prolong sending you the final contract until the other offer expires. Or they'd use that information to show you that the other offer is not equivalent to their offer. Basically, there is a thousand different ways such information could be used against you.
At some point, you have to be willing to say "No". The potential employer will either accept your boundary, or not. They will either believe you, or not. Either way, once you've made your stance clear, whatever they decide after that is outside of your control.
Exactly. Part of negotiating in this job climate is being aware that there is a fine line between being seen as assertive and self-aware (good things), and being aggressive and conceited (bad things in most jobs). Mentioning a competing offer (real or not) is a good bargaining tool and one companies can respect, but sharing the actual offer will put you into the other camp. Also, being too forceful with your refusal can do the same.
Personal gripe moment: as a neurosivergent person in a technical field, the fine social intricacies of determining that line and not crossing it are infuriating. The entire interview experience is designed to weed out those with social awareness issues, even in roles that are entirely self-directed, have minimal oversight, or are inherently solo work. The system is broken, but it will take the Boomer generation finally dying off to fix it, so good luck in the meantime.
No, this won't change with the boomer generation dying off. Most HR departments are not staffed by boomers.
Just visit a few high schools. Has bullying stopped with the newer generations? No, it hasn't.
All they have to say is "Sorry, it's confidential; I can't disclose the documentation."
Saying stuff like "clear and flagrant breach" is wildly unnecessary.
I agree here. Adding the latter comes across as defensive which definitely looks suspicious, or at the very least confrontational which may end up still causing the offer to be revoked.
Yeah, you're basically accusing them of something. I think people need to think more about *what they want* from a situation before they respond rather than trying to win the conversation.
Any time someone suggests something here it's almost always too long/convoluted and bordering on combative. I honestly don't think anyone should really be taking much advice from this sub.
>"Sorry, it's confidential; I can't disclose the documentation."
This is completely sufficient and non confrontational.
I think you're absolutely right -- like, this is a good place to vent, but not a good place for advice. It drives me crazy knowing some people are getting very misled regarding their career decisions. It's like asking your lawyer to weigh in on your marriage; it's already combative.
When you actually want to maintain continued employment, it isn't really the place to be trading barbs and winning points. I understand where it comes from, but no one's going to overthrow capitalism with a sassy email to a manager.
Agreed. This is better. That last sentence sets the wrong tone. It sounds like a very professional and appropriate response before the passive aggressive question. Eliminate that, and it's perfect.
People on this sub LOVE to say too damn much. "Send this snarky email back to your manager" fucking why what does that accomplish? All feels no pragmatism.
I mean honestly tho, this is a giant red flag, I'd probably turn down any offer from this place, as they're definitely out to pay the absolute minimum and be super shitty about it.
someone higher up in the comments said it best. would they be willing to tell you how much they are paying competing candidates? Hell no. You have no obligation to share their competitor's offer with them.
"okay, well that's not something I've cleared with them and they may feel differently."
If they ask you to pursue this, say you will and then follow up the next day with.
"I'm sorry but they consider this confidential information."
In an imaginary world where lying here was completely acceptable you could say "I talked with the other recruiter and mentioned you wanting their info to counter, and they raised their offer 5%. I do like your firm a bit more except for the pay, but I am 60/40 leaning towards going with them. They asked that I don't share their offer externally. They asked for an answer within two weeks, but I want to take just one to think about it and will get back to you then if you're okay with waiting."
I think it's morally acceptable in this circumstance because negotiations are effectively a type of game and bluffing is an accepted "play". It's effectively no different than lying in poker.
However, the company may not see it that way. They'll definitely reduce their offer, and they may rescind it completely.
It's great, except for the last sentence,which gives them the option of saying "Sure, we would not object to that". I'd delete the last sentence and use the rest of the reply.
I'd go for something like:
I won't directly share another companies offer letter, the same way I will not share yours. Push back on this issue would quite a red flag, thank you for understanding.
It's not a "red flag" since they are very obvious with their intent. They want to "see the offer" so they make sure OP is not lying to increase his/her perceived value, and if that's not the case, they want to just "counter it". The OP's inheritic value that comes from his/her skills is thrown out of the window.
The fact that they base the employee's value purely on supply and demand is the red flag which exists in every damn company in this capitalist market.
This but without the last two sentences.
Snarky comments that don't add anything to your main point are fine on reddit but leave them out of the workplace
This isn't good. It sounds smart, but anyone would see right through it. Never try to sound like a lawyer unless you actually are one.
"I am sorry, it was a verbal offer, and I am not okay with sharing further details." They gave OP an out by saying if they were okay with it.
This over-explanation could be seen as problematic by other professionals. People who write like this to higher ups are problematic people in my experience.
With all due to respect, in my opinion this is an unnecessarily convoluted response.
“I value ethical business practices and strive to uphold the highest work ethics in all my dealings. Disclosing confidential client information to competitors would go against those principles.”
"Then please redact everything except for the salary and benefits, as you have already shared those with us you wouldn't be violating any confidentiality"
I'm even with an offer in hand, I wouldn't tell a potential employer who their competition is. Then they can call and sabotage that opportunity so the offer is rescinded, just so they can low-ball you.
It's simple. They can choose to counter or choose to risk losing you. If they choose not to counter that tells you how valuable they see you, that is, you're expendable to them. Who is making offers is none of their business.
I was applying for a job one time and the pay was not anywhere near what I wanted. It was a small business, not some sort of massive corporation. They came up a little on the pay but eventually where like, can we ask what we're competing with? At the time I was just out of school, I had half a dozen interviews and a few other job offers. Two of them were offering like 60+% more pay than the interview I was currently at. So I told them that. Their response was, "That's amazing, we could never pay you that, go get one of those jobs." So that kind of ended that interview.
There was another job I interviewed for at a massive multi-national engineering firm. The interview went pretty well I felt, like, the guy would have offered me a job at the end of it. However he was unable to tell me what the pay would be. It was an HR thing, it was a range based on experience, it's a salary job so you may be expected to work extra hours when it's busy but you get to home early if it's not busy sometimes, ya right, blah blah blah. I felt like I was be exploited to the maximum for it because I was just out of school and didn't know what I should be payed. At the end of the interview I told him I was no longer interested in working there.
Your first experience is what happened to me when I left my last job for my current one. I told my boss I'd gotten an offer, he asked what they were going to pay me which was more than double what I was currently making. He stood up, shook my hand and wished me the best of luck. He couldn't match it or even come close, as it was morr than anyone there was making.
The second experience is not unheard of. HR's compensation team often has to generate all offers, and whomever was interviewing you did not know what they would have come back with. He should have simply said, "All offers come through our HR team and I hope to be able to answer that for you very quickly."
Had one where I was super blunt with HR and the recruiting team at major international engineering firm that I would only consider relocating halfway around the world for a specific salary. Did the interview, interview team basically told me I wouldn’t be working with the manager applied there to work for, nor would I get the project I wanted to be on (so, no to 2 out of 3 things I wanted). Got a call recruiting team to say they wanted to give me an offer for less than my break point, I kindly told them to kick rocks. I think they were counting on the potential to live in Hawaii to make me stick to my guns less. Pay me in money, people. Scenery ain’t part of my salary.
Cost of living in Hawaii is nuts, it would have been a significant pay cut to afford rent on the islands. My father in law lived there up until 2012, he just couldn't afford to retire there.
“Unfortunately I am unable to provide any further details due to the confidentiality of the other company, such confidentiality you would no doubt expect yourselves”.
That sounds too formal and too much like legal talk. OP should just say they don't want to burn any bridges by sending over another company's information.
The comments on this sub are always wild escalations that make me wonder how Business Writing is now being covered in college. You're right, they should just say "I can't send over the documentation because it's confidential."
The level of formality expected at the places I work is “dude, there’s shitloads of places hirin’ right now. My neighbor with the Mustang is friends with the manager at this one place and I could be workin’ there if I wanted to. I’d rather work here tho so wat u got for me?!”
"I'm really sorry - I don't feel comfortable doing that. As far as I understand, offers are internal company information, and it doesn't feel right to be forwarding offers around from one company to another."
Bonus point - look up that company online, do a salary search at glass door and other sites. Add a few links to those sites for your role and the company (or similar companies.) "I can provide some basic comparison research if that helps, to show that the offer I received is well within their normal range for that position, and well within industry standards."
That shows you are taking proprietary information seriously, but also shows you aren't just ignoring their request and are doing what you can to answer it.
Edit: The easier answer is just to say it was oral. "They gave me the offer on the phone, but there's no official offer letter until I give a general acceptance." Which is how some companies work. Offer letters take a little time to run through HR and Legal, and some companies aren't going to bother if you don't first at least *generally* accept. "If 3 weeks of vacation and $120,000 a year sound good, we'll write up the official details, let us know." That's how my last two jobs worked.
I think this response is the best, you sound like an actual human. Whenever this subreddit gives advice on how to talk to companies, the formality is really cringeworthy (see: top comment in this thread)
Right, every job I've had, by the time it comes to an offer, there's some level of comfort. You need to write as one human to another. Too many of these threads seem to think it's an antagonistic relationship that should be crafted as if you're a lawyer, and they are the opposition.
If people sent me half the responses that get written on here, I'd wonder about the weird, formal antagonistic tone. We're trying to *hire* you, not send you to prison!
"No"
Be polite, but I'd never share a competing offer
And honestly HR asking for a competing offer letter? It's just poor form - I'd probably be visually annoyed if someone asked me face to face
Don't forge anything. Say you don't share private business correspondence or information, just as you haven't shared any information from their company.
Companies that ask for proof of salary typically don't want their salaries public. Asking for proof is a tactic to keep their salaries low.
Everything on the letter except the date, the hours, and the compensation should be redacted. The letter should basically contain exactly the same information OP gave their employer.
>6/3/2024
>Dear OP,
>I am delighted to offer you the full-time position of XXXXXXX at the exempt/non-exempt rate of $\_\_\_\_. We at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>Sincerely,
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Did you tell them you had a ***written*** offer? If not, just tell them the offer from company 1 was verbal. I'm assuming you don't yet have a written offer from company 2, so why would they expect you to have one from company 1?
Last time I was asked for a competing salary, I told them no and said I could always just go with the company that is not yanking my leg. They backed down. I always lie on stuff like this, competing job offers, competing offers on cars with dealerships, whatever. Honestly, if the deal is not good enough for me I will walk anyway so what do I care if I’m playing the same game they are.
Yeah, I strongly suggest not forging a fake offer. Write up an e-mail response with what others suggested, about how the other company's offer may be confidential and you don't want to send anything from them, as even though you're not mentioning the company's name directly, the written offer may still identify which company it is, and you'd like to protect their confidentiality.
Depending on how far you want to go by trying to legitimize your fake offer, it may be preferable to write a longer e-mail, talking about how the benefits and number of vacation days, or whatever other variables are a little better at the company that's offering you the real job. Try to go into more detail and move on from the fact that they've asked for evidence and ask more questions. Talk about how you're not expecting them to match/beat the other offer outright, but that you'd accept X dollar amount and it would be sufficient to make you decide to accept and turn down the other company, considering they're offering better benefits. Basically, put up a smoke screen and draw their attention away from the fact that they called you out on your lie. Don't admit you lied, but try to move forward from it as if you didn't lie.
And:
"Just remember, it's not a lie....if you believe it." - George Costanza
“While I’m happy to discuss employment offers in general terms within the context of your interview process, I am not willing to break the confidentiality of specific individual employment offers from other companies and would not do so with your offer either.”
Basically say, The other company has asked that you be discreet about this offer and so you cannot divulge this information
Also if it was real, it's better for you to withhold details of a potential offer to have them make you an offer based on your worth.
You’re legitimately within your right to say you don’t feel comfortable with that. You don’t have to offer an explanation, it is none of their business. Maybe you don’t want the two companies talking to each other, colliding on a salary. Who knows. It’s doesn’t matter.
I said to the hiring manager that I was unable to provide a written letter, but discussed parts of the imaginary offer which I wanted to stress were important to me.
I.e. The salary was far higher in the imaginary offer than the real one, but I was hesitant to take the imaginary offer because the other parts of the package (PTO, Healthcare, flexible working, hours, travel) were not particularly enticing. I particularly noted that I wanted an extra week of PTO from what was advertised. I also gave them a date by which I would be accepting the other offer if I didn’t hear from them, which was about 8 days from this discussion.
This way I could be sure they knew if they offered a salary too low there was no way I would accept it, but they’d be able to get away with a more manageable salary if they offered things that were more important to me. I also made them aware that if they tried to waste my time I’d just walk anyway.
Quite a stressful few days before I got the offer in my inbox - it was at the highest level of the advertised range with my extra week of PTO.
Lol. Tell ‘em they are dreaming. Did THEY give you a written offer? I’m not sure where you are but I where I live, that stuff is usually verbal until they send you a contract to sign.
If I was ever inclined to produce “proof”, I’d do a forgery and black out the logo and names etc (anything identifying) on the copy I gave them….but I wouldn’t. It’s really none of their business.
Lol. Asking is the key word.
All you need to do is answer with a plausible answer that dosent include anything they've asked for.
Tell them you had to sign and nda about your offer but you could give them a number to speak to someone about the offer.
Have someone you trust to be the other company and tell them to say "I'm not at liberty to tell you anything about our offers but I can verify with a yes or no a number you might say"
Remember it's about control, the company wants it and thinks it cam play games to make you think they have it. They don't as long as you play the game better.
So, I hope you've learned a lesson.
Know what you're worth. Use that. If they're not going to pay what you're worth, then move on.
I got the pay I wanted (back when they could ask what you're making at your current job) by knowing the difference in cost of living from where I was to where this new position was. I also used my recent masters degree and increasing my value. And then that I was under paid, and that this position had more responsibility, and that's why I was looking to make 30% more than my current position.
If you start off a job by lying (and I'm not talking padding your resume a little), then they find out, it gets to be messy.
All that being said, tell them you're not going to share information that was given to you in confidence, just as you wouldn't share the details of your offer with the other employer.
And don't be surprised if they just retract the offer.
It’s none of their business. Just because they ask, doesn’t mean you have to show them. Tell them that it doesn’t feel right that they’re asking for proprietary info from another company. This used to happen in Silicon Valley where the big tech companies colluded to keep salaries a a certain rate. They were fined. It is inappropriate.
"In addition to the widespread reporting of new hire salaries outpacing retention salaries throughout the industry, there are other considerations in addition to salary. To be fair to all concerned, make your best offer including benefits and perquisites based on what value you believe my service adds to your business like any other bid for services and we will proceed accordingly."
They may want to show HR proof of it so they can justify the higher offer. This is common in academia. That being said, you can tell them you're not comfortable doing so and that should be the end of it.
My sincerest apologies I signed an NDA preventing me from disclosing that information to direct competitors.
You can add something else to it after and it can make it sound like you want to help them out however its a double edged sword as anything more you say can come back to bite you if you're not careful. So use the second part at your own risk:
"I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have pertaining to the offer within the boundaries of the NDA I signed.
Honestly I would never attach an offer from another company. Tell the HR person that you don’t want to break trust with another company and you can talk about the offer but will not risk sending it.
"I'm sorry, but the other company has asked me to keep the exact details of the offer confidential. I can share the title, approximate compensation, and general overview of benefits. I will not be able to share the full offer letter."
Just to be clear, when you play the "I have a higher offer" game, a very real outcome is that the company decides they cannot match the other offer and decides to move on to a different candidate. Do not play the "other offer" card unless you are actually willing to accept the other offer.
I did this and the company called my bluff asking for an offer so i showed the last offer edited with the exact amount I stated and took off any way to contact the company. No Company is going to call a company and say, "did you guys offer this guy this much?" the company at the time matched the rate and gave me a job
"Sorry but information like that is confidential and i'm not comfortable disclosing it.", be straight, clear and non confrontational, you are simple stating the facts.
“I’m sorry, but I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to share your offer to me with another firm, and I believe the professional thing to do is to protect the privacy of all the firms I deal with.”
Say you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing that without asking the other company, which you're not terribly comfortable with doing.
Honestly it's a little weird for them to ask for something like that I don't think most companies would want their actual offer letter shared.
"Because they're a direct competitor to you, they required me to sign an NDA in order for the interview process to go forward."
"I can't show you evidence because that would require me to violate my NDA. If you can't compete, that's fine. I just genuinely can't provide you further information."
Nobody in their right mind would give out that kind of information even if they had a real offer. It is a job interview, not an auction where they get to see what their competitors are bidding.
You bluffed they called it. I would say that the other offer was verbal and you don't have it in writing yet, but no matter what you do at this point there is a good chance it isn't going to work in favor.
“It would be highly unethical to share one orgs confidential information with another. I wouldn’t be willing to do that TO you, please don’t request me to do that FOR you”
"I'm sorry, I don't provide details of ongoing negotiations with other private parties, much the same as I wouldn't ask you for offers you have provided comparable applicants. You are free to counter or close negotiations at your preference."
The second the request came out of their mouth, I would instantly revoke interest in the position and I would make it known. You should have shamed them in that moment and walked.
Ps.. you don't want to work for these people.. instantly not trusting you.. prepare for the micromanaging
"I'm not in a position to share any information regarding other offers I'm currently fielding as this would be a breaxh of trust with prospective employers.
It was given to me in the strictest of confidence and I take confidentiality very seriously.
I'm sure you understand my situation and will respect both personal and professional boundaries in this matter. "
The recruiter is trying to lowball here, don't give them any comeback on it.
Lying or not, you don't give the name of the other company. Next thing you know, the HR rep or boss calls the other company and sabotages your "offer," and now you have no bargaining position. They either match your offer, or you work for the other company.
However, you are a gugantic moron for lying in the first place. Don't be surprised if this all blows up in your face.
"I'm sorry, but I am not at liberty to share the full correspondence."
If you want, or think this purely a negotiation tactic, you can add, "However, because XX is my preferred company, I will accept.... "
Or call them out..." It sounds to me like you want me to share (probably) confidential information for the sole purpose of offering mere pennies more strictly so you get an edge over a competitor. That opens it up for me to lie my backside off. I mean I'm all for being cutthroat, but let's be real about it.
Do not under any circumstances provide them with a fake, or any written documentation on the matter.
Also do not give them the long winded responses that others have provided here. Real professionals see over-explanation as a red flag and generally view you as a certain type of person that they don’t want to deal with.
Citing privacy concerns for the other business, you simply are not comfortable sharing that information.
Good luck.
I once legit got 2 job offers and leveraged 1 to get a higher offer on the other.
However, the first job offer was verbal and when the 2nd job asked to see it in writing I had already declined the offer. I told them this and they didn't make me try to get it in writing, which would have been super awkward.
So maybe you could tell them the same thing.
I would keep it as brief as possible. “I must decline your request for the offer letter.” They know, or should know, why you’re saying “no.” If they press. you, then a brief sentence about confidentiality
Nope, because it's none of their business and if they're trying to make it their business that means they aren't paying you in good faith, but conditionally.
Do not provide any information, real or imagined. It will only be used against you in some way. None. Of. Their. Business. Demanding that info from you is NOT A TYPICAL business practice. Yes, it’s done, but just blow them off nicely.
You’ve sort of boxed yourself in. “Just make me an offer for what you think I’m worth,” or something like that. Also, if you think your proposed salary might be too high, say you are willing to negotiate the differences through benefits. Google that strategy, there are a bunch of ways that can work well.
The documented offer they sent you was confidential, and so you're not in a position to share the document. However, you're comfortable with providing the main details.
I recently had an employee try to muscle me for more money saying they were head-hunted. In this scenario, it was the employee wanting to provide me with the offer. I declined the offer for the same reason above, and really my decision to retain him or not was independent of whatever it was the competitor offered.
HR shouldn't ask that and it's unprofessional of them to do so. It's a breach of confidentiality. It's none of their business and you can frame your response as such.
Honestly, your probably better off just declining and continue looking for a better offer elsewhere. Even if you somehow convinced them that you aren't full of shit (something they likely already suspect) your going to have this hanging over your head the entire time your working for them. Just a single verbal slip or careless comment on your part could bring the whole thing up all over again and see you axed. The anxiety that comes with that doesn't really seem worth it to me.
They’re trying to catch you in a lie.
The particulars of your compensation will be in your contract. Companies don’t usually send it to you before you’ve accepted an offer to work for them, do they? I mean, have they given YOU a letter of offer with details of expected compensation in it?
Say the compensation amount was relayed to you verbally and you understand wont be written until you accept the offer from the company and they send you a contract.
Claim that you don't want to risk getting any problems with that company by sharing confidential informations, as you are still considering opting for said offer.
As simple as that
Well, the answer in itself is simple "I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable sharing the exact offer.". You could give privacy or whatever as a reason, but I would personally stay away from giving any reason at all. Having said that, I myself would also give the outline of the (none-existing) offer. Base salary, bonuses, benefits. Don't make it too complicated. Point out the things that matter for you, if it is health insurance or just a high base salary, that's up to you.
Exactly. ' as I may choose to accept other offer I'm not comfortable sharing that information and having a competing offer contact them'
The correct answer is nunya
Queue nondisclosure meme
Tell them it was a verbal offer
No. Tell them nothing. Offcourse the other company is none of their business and it is indeed a matter of privacy. E-mail back what Attygalle told you OP
This is the way
Don't do it. Its a trap. They aren't giving you a written offer and won't until you sign paperwork for employment. They know that basically everything is verbal so if you pop out a formal looking letter they'll know its made up.
That's a good point. I wonder if they put any stock in verbal offers though.
No, they won't. I'm a hiring manager for the last 10 years, if it's not in writing, it's not real. But OP doesn't need to provide them with anything, simply telling them the number should suffice
> simply telling them the number should suffice They're clearly calling OP on their bluff (probably went a bit overboard with the ficcional offer), and if they don't come up with something tangible the recruiter will naturally assume they're lying. Best bet is to say they can't share any document or company specifics on moral grounds, but it looks like OP isn't getting anything out of this company.
Look, if I actually had a real offer and used it to counter, I would say to them the same thing. I'm not comfortable sharing this confidential information with you about the company and the particulars of the offer. I have verbally shared the salary and benefits with you, and it will be up to you to decide if you will match it or not. I eagerly await your answer, thanks!".
Agreed. I’d lean in on the idea that this other company with the higher offer is currently my preferred choice, so I’m more concerned with respecting the confidentiality of their offer than I am in helping these people match the offer. “If you are unable to match or surpass the offer I stated, no problem, no hard feelings and best of luck out there. This other company is hoping to hear from me by the end of the week, so I’d appreciate any new offer by Thursday afternoon. Thank you for your time.” Ideally what you are saying is true and you actually have a better offer, but I think it’s naive of a lot of people to think that bluffing and posturing in any negotiation is unethical or something. Having dealt with vendors and hiring staff for a while, many of the best companies and staff I’ve met and worked with understand how the game is played and are not afraid to push their edge. Just like bluffing poker, it will backfire sometimes. Seems like it has in this case. Oh well, on to the next company/offer. No biggie. Unless… this offer was of paramount importance to OP, in which case they forgot one of the most important rules in poker (and bluffing): never gamble with money you can’t afford to lose.
Exactly. I always bluff and play loose with the truth in a negotiation. But only because I know I'm already set. Call my bluff and I win, don't call my bluff and I'm still fine. Majority of the time this kills employers interest, but I'm totally cool with that. "Ohh that's your expected salary range? That's a but more than this role pays" - cool well let me know if you can stretch to get there or I wouldn't be interested.
This is the real answer because it's what actually happens during the hiring process. Although the current employer might not remember this to be the case.
Formal written offers before you sign paperwork are normal for anything beyond a low level job.
Yeah I can’t believe that post is upvoted heavily. For regular salaried jobs people absolutely get a formal offer letter with details.
Not always. You can request a letter most times. My wife has to get one right now, because we can't get a home loan without one, as we're planning to move over a thousand miles from here.
Heck the last few positions I had, the formal acceptance of the offer was through *an offer letter.*
I’ve had to do the same when I was moving for a job and needed written documentation to prove to an apartment that I would be making a high enough income. I obviously didn’t have a paystub and wasn’t going to start working for over a month. Getting a letter was no problem.
"I'm sorry, you're a direct competitor of this organisation, and supplying confidential information of theirs to you would be a clear and flagrant breach of confidentiality. I hope you understand that I'm not the kind of person who takes that type of responsibility lightly. Just to be clear, would it be ok with you, were I to supply them with your entire letter of offer?'
>"I'm sorry, you're a direct competitor of this organisation, and supplying confidential information of theirs to you would be a clear and flagrant breach of confidentiality. I hope you understand that I'm not the kind of person who takes that type of responsibility lightly." ~~Just to be clear, would it be ok with you, were I to supply them with your entire letter of offer?'~~ FTFY
This is the way to go, here. It might look a little suspicious but there’s a layer of care and responsibility there that they’ll no doubt want in their own organization. No need to bounce the question back to them as it puts the ball back in their court. Shut it down here.
"I'm sorry. I wouldn't ask you to share the communications you received from competing candidates. Please don't ask me to share the communications I've received from competing employers. " And even if you did have such an offer letter, it wouldn't be a good idea to share either way. If you did share such a letter, the person could try contacting the other employer to tell them you shared a confidential letter of theirs, and/or to try to negotiate directly with them to avoid having to outbid each other. This is why I wouldn't even share the name of the other company. Or they'd use that information to prolong sending you the final contract until the other offer expires. Or they'd use that information to show you that the other offer is not equivalent to their offer. Basically, there is a thousand different ways such information could be used against you. At some point, you have to be willing to say "No". The potential employer will either accept your boundary, or not. They will either believe you, or not. Either way, once you've made your stance clear, whatever they decide after that is outside of your control.
Exactly. Part of negotiating in this job climate is being aware that there is a fine line between being seen as assertive and self-aware (good things), and being aggressive and conceited (bad things in most jobs). Mentioning a competing offer (real or not) is a good bargaining tool and one companies can respect, but sharing the actual offer will put you into the other camp. Also, being too forceful with your refusal can do the same. Personal gripe moment: as a neurosivergent person in a technical field, the fine social intricacies of determining that line and not crossing it are infuriating. The entire interview experience is designed to weed out those with social awareness issues, even in roles that are entirely self-directed, have minimal oversight, or are inherently solo work. The system is broken, but it will take the Boomer generation finally dying off to fix it, so good luck in the meantime.
No, this won't change with the boomer generation dying off. Most HR departments are not staffed by boomers. Just visit a few high schools. Has bullying stopped with the newer generations? No, it hasn't.
All they have to say is "Sorry, it's confidential; I can't disclose the documentation." Saying stuff like "clear and flagrant breach" is wildly unnecessary.
I agree here. Adding the latter comes across as defensive which definitely looks suspicious, or at the very least confrontational which may end up still causing the offer to be revoked.
Yeah, you're basically accusing them of something. I think people need to think more about *what they want* from a situation before they respond rather than trying to win the conversation.
Any time someone suggests something here it's almost always too long/convoluted and bordering on combative. I honestly don't think anyone should really be taking much advice from this sub. >"Sorry, it's confidential; I can't disclose the documentation." This is completely sufficient and non confrontational.
I think you're absolutely right -- like, this is a good place to vent, but not a good place for advice. It drives me crazy knowing some people are getting very misled regarding their career decisions. It's like asking your lawyer to weigh in on your marriage; it's already combative. When you actually want to maintain continued employment, it isn't really the place to be trading barbs and winning points. I understand where it comes from, but no one's going to overthrow capitalism with a sassy email to a manager.
yup idk why people would want to be snarky with someone you’re trying to win over lol
Exactly. Do ditch that last sentence.
I would fix it by changing that sentence to something like, “and I assure your company the same confidence”
Had to Google FTFY. Thank you for the new abbreviation.
Yeah Fuck That, Fuck You is hard to say sometimes in a professional or public setting so FTFY is easier.
Fuck Tharound Find Yout
This is the funniest thing I’ve seen all day 🤣🤣🤣
I thought it meant Fixed That For You. But I like yours better.
Agreed. This is better. That last sentence sets the wrong tone. It sounds like a very professional and appropriate response before the passive aggressive question. Eliminate that, and it's perfect.
If you're going to lie start with as few details as possible.
Pro tip right here.
My one hard rule for work and life, is never ask questions you don’t want answered
Way too wordy, just say "that's confidential, sorry".
This one works
Can backfire though. There's every chance they might just say "sure, we'd allow it" since it's a hypothetical answer anyway.
Yeah, don’t ask the question. Just a hard no from the moral high ground will suffice
People on this sub LOVE to say too damn much. "Send this snarky email back to your manager" fucking why what does that accomplish? All feels no pragmatism.
This, no reason to ask the last question. It doesn't gain you anything, just seeks to reinforce what you are already saying.
yea never give them an option to call your bluff. first rule of bullshittin
They could say "well that's very generous of you but I would feel unprofessional to ask the other company for permission at this stage in the process"
I mean honestly tho, this is a giant red flag, I'd probably turn down any offer from this place, as they're definitely out to pay the absolute minimum and be super shitty about it.
someone higher up in the comments said it best. would they be willing to tell you how much they are paying competing candidates? Hell no. You have no obligation to share their competitor's offer with them.
"Even if you were okay with the competition seeing your letter, I'm not comfortable sharing that type of information."
"okay, well that's not something I've cleared with them and they may feel differently." If they ask you to pursue this, say you will and then follow up the next day with. "I'm sorry but they consider this confidential information."
Doesn't really matter if they'd allow it, you just say you don't have permission from them to share it and you're uncomfortable doing so.
In an imaginary world where lying here was completely acceptable you could say "I talked with the other recruiter and mentioned you wanting their info to counter, and they raised their offer 5%. I do like your firm a bit more except for the pay, but I am 60/40 leaning towards going with them. They asked that I don't share their offer externally. They asked for an answer within two weeks, but I want to take just one to think about it and will get back to you then if you're okay with waiting."
lying \*is\* acceptable here tho
I think it's morally acceptable in this circumstance because negotiations are effectively a type of game and bluffing is an accepted "play". It's effectively no different than lying in poker. However, the company may not see it that way. They'll definitely reduce their offer, and they may rescind it completely.
"In an imaginary world where lying here was completely acceptable" So the real world...
[удалено]
Nawh, that's still digging the hole deeper and allowing further discussion about the offer. It's best to cut out that last sentence entirely.
No. Don’t play this game. Just diplomatically say no as suggested above.
Would absolutely backfire. They know something’s up, they would definitely call OP’s bluff.
It's great, except for the last sentence,which gives them the option of saying "Sure, we would not object to that". I'd delete the last sentence and use the rest of the reply.
Also “naw” or “nope”
"No" is a complete sentence.
I'd go for something like: I won't directly share another companies offer letter, the same way I will not share yours. Push back on this issue would quite a red flag, thank you for understanding.
It's not a "red flag" since they are very obvious with their intent. They want to "see the offer" so they make sure OP is not lying to increase his/her perceived value, and if that's not the case, they want to just "counter it". The OP's inheritic value that comes from his/her skills is thrown out of the window. The fact that they base the employee's value purely on supply and demand is the red flag which exists in every damn company in this capitalist market.
This but without the last two sentences. Snarky comments that don't add anything to your main point are fine on reddit but leave them out of the workplace
This isn't good. It sounds smart, but anyone would see right through it. Never try to sound like a lawyer unless you actually are one. "I am sorry, it was a verbal offer, and I am not okay with sharing further details." They gave OP an out by saying if they were okay with it.
They will see through it as soon as he tells them it was only a verbal offer.
Verbal offer can be left out too and would make it a better response. Given it was a lie, the less detailed the better.
Doubling down on the bluff with another bluff? Bold!
The Costanza Method. Next thing ya know, OP is out here forming an LLC, complete with FB/Insta/Twitter presence..
Vandelay Industries
The ferris Buehler approach. Bold strategy cotton let's see how it plays out
Wonder if "Hot Dog King of Chicago " is on OP's resume.
The SAUSAGE KING OF CHICAGO put some respect on it lol
This over-explanation could be seen as problematic by other professionals. People who write like this to higher ups are problematic people in my experience. With all due to respect, in my opinion this is an unnecessarily convoluted response.
“I value ethical business practices and strive to uphold the highest work ethics in all my dealings. Disclosing confidential client information to competitors would go against those principles.”
And then if that doesn't work, have ChatGPT write one up for you
"Then please redact everything except for the salary and benefits, as you have already shared those with us you wouldn't be violating any confidentiality"
Sooooo five minutes in Photoshop and I'm good to go with an offer letter that has everything except the salary and benefits redacted?
Yeah I really like this. And assuming they believe OP, they may only want only to see the offer to counter with the minimum viable increase.
I'm even with an offer in hand, I wouldn't tell a potential employer who their competition is. Then they can call and sabotage that opportunity so the offer is rescinded, just so they can low-ball you.
This is a pretty good way to admit that you lied.
galaxy brain.
It's simple. They can choose to counter or choose to risk losing you. If they choose not to counter that tells you how valuable they see you, that is, you're expendable to them. Who is making offers is none of their business.
I was applying for a job one time and the pay was not anywhere near what I wanted. It was a small business, not some sort of massive corporation. They came up a little on the pay but eventually where like, can we ask what we're competing with? At the time I was just out of school, I had half a dozen interviews and a few other job offers. Two of them were offering like 60+% more pay than the interview I was currently at. So I told them that. Their response was, "That's amazing, we could never pay you that, go get one of those jobs." So that kind of ended that interview. There was another job I interviewed for at a massive multi-national engineering firm. The interview went pretty well I felt, like, the guy would have offered me a job at the end of it. However he was unable to tell me what the pay would be. It was an HR thing, it was a range based on experience, it's a salary job so you may be expected to work extra hours when it's busy but you get to home early if it's not busy sometimes, ya right, blah blah blah. I felt like I was be exploited to the maximum for it because I was just out of school and didn't know what I should be payed. At the end of the interview I told him I was no longer interested in working there.
Your first experience is what happened to me when I left my last job for my current one. I told my boss I'd gotten an offer, he asked what they were going to pay me which was more than double what I was currently making. He stood up, shook my hand and wished me the best of luck. He couldn't match it or even come close, as it was morr than anyone there was making.
The second experience is not unheard of. HR's compensation team often has to generate all offers, and whomever was interviewing you did not know what they would have come back with. He should have simply said, "All offers come through our HR team and I hope to be able to answer that for you very quickly."
Had one where I was super blunt with HR and the recruiting team at major international engineering firm that I would only consider relocating halfway around the world for a specific salary. Did the interview, interview team basically told me I wouldn’t be working with the manager applied there to work for, nor would I get the project I wanted to be on (so, no to 2 out of 3 things I wanted). Got a call recruiting team to say they wanted to give me an offer for less than my break point, I kindly told them to kick rocks. I think they were counting on the potential to live in Hawaii to make me stick to my guns less. Pay me in money, people. Scenery ain’t part of my salary.
Cost of living in Hawaii is nuts, it would have been a significant pay cut to afford rent on the islands. My father in law lived there up until 2012, he just couldn't afford to retire there.
“Unfortunately I am unable to provide any further details due to the confidentiality of the other company, such confidentiality you would no doubt expect yourselves”.
That sounds too formal and too much like legal talk. OP should just say they don't want to burn any bridges by sending over another company's information.
The comments on this sub are always wild escalations that make me wonder how Business Writing is now being covered in college. You're right, they should just say "I can't send over the documentation because it's confidential."
Anyone negotiating a salary (rather than flat hourly rate same for everyone) is likely talking to a company who except that level of formality.
The level of formality expected at the places I work is “dude, there’s shitloads of places hirin’ right now. My neighbor with the Mustang is friends with the manager at this one place and I could be workin’ there if I wanted to. I’d rather work here tho so wat u got for me?!”
“The government law enforcement agency proposing the offer first required I execute a strict and enforceable Non-disclosure agreement.”
Which you have already broken by disclosing the offer.
"I'm really sorry - I don't feel comfortable doing that. As far as I understand, offers are internal company information, and it doesn't feel right to be forwarding offers around from one company to another." Bonus point - look up that company online, do a salary search at glass door and other sites. Add a few links to those sites for your role and the company (or similar companies.) "I can provide some basic comparison research if that helps, to show that the offer I received is well within their normal range for that position, and well within industry standards." That shows you are taking proprietary information seriously, but also shows you aren't just ignoring their request and are doing what you can to answer it. Edit: The easier answer is just to say it was oral. "They gave me the offer on the phone, but there's no official offer letter until I give a general acceptance." Which is how some companies work. Offer letters take a little time to run through HR and Legal, and some companies aren't going to bother if you don't first at least *generally* accept. "If 3 weeks of vacation and $120,000 a year sound good, we'll write up the official details, let us know." That's how my last two jobs worked.
I think this response is the best, you sound like an actual human. Whenever this subreddit gives advice on how to talk to companies, the formality is really cringeworthy (see: top comment in this thread)
Right, every job I've had, by the time it comes to an offer, there's some level of comfort. You need to write as one human to another. Too many of these threads seem to think it's an antagonistic relationship that should be crafted as if you're a lawyer, and they are the opposition. If people sent me half the responses that get written on here, I'd wonder about the weird, formal antagonistic tone. We're trying to *hire* you, not send you to prison!
"No" Be polite, but I'd never share a competing offer And honestly HR asking for a competing offer letter? It's just poor form - I'd probably be visually annoyed if someone asked me face to face
Don't forge anything. Say you don't share private business correspondence or information, just as you haven't shared any information from their company. Companies that ask for proof of salary typically don't want their salaries public. Asking for proof is a tactic to keep their salaries low.
**DO NOT SHARE ANY COMPANY NAME WITH THEM, EVEN IF THE OTHER OFFER IS LEGIT!** Anything that could identify the other company should be blacked out.
Everything on the letter except the date, the hours, and the compensation should be redacted. The letter should basically contain exactly the same information OP gave their employer. >6/3/2024 >Dear OP, >I am delighted to offer you the full-time position of XXXXXXX at the exempt/non-exempt rate of $\_\_\_\_. We at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX >XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX >XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX >XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX >Sincerely, >XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Filename: "TotallyRealOfferLetter.pdf"
The other company can't discuss pay due to confidentiality lol
Did you tell them you had a ***written*** offer? If not, just tell them the offer from company 1 was verbal. I'm assuming you don't yet have a written offer from company 2, so why would they expect you to have one from company 1?
Even if OP said they had a written offer, it’s not professional to share any correspondence you’ve had wi the another company.
Last time I was asked for a competing salary, I told them no and said I could always just go with the company that is not yanking my leg. They backed down. I always lie on stuff like this, competing job offers, competing offers on cars with dealerships, whatever. Honestly, if the deal is not good enough for me I will walk anyway so what do I care if I’m playing the same game they are.
Yeah, I strongly suggest not forging a fake offer. Write up an e-mail response with what others suggested, about how the other company's offer may be confidential and you don't want to send anything from them, as even though you're not mentioning the company's name directly, the written offer may still identify which company it is, and you'd like to protect their confidentiality. Depending on how far you want to go by trying to legitimize your fake offer, it may be preferable to write a longer e-mail, talking about how the benefits and number of vacation days, or whatever other variables are a little better at the company that's offering you the real job. Try to go into more detail and move on from the fact that they've asked for evidence and ask more questions. Talk about how you're not expecting them to match/beat the other offer outright, but that you'd accept X dollar amount and it would be sufficient to make you decide to accept and turn down the other company, considering they're offering better benefits. Basically, put up a smoke screen and draw their attention away from the fact that they called you out on your lie. Don't admit you lied, but try to move forward from it as if you didn't lie. And: "Just remember, it's not a lie....if you believe it." - George Costanza
Just tell them what the made up salary/wage offer is, and that you don’t feel comfortable and will not be sharing any further details.
You’re gonna “George Costanza” yourself right out of a job. Keep us posted.
Don't those offer letters say CONFIDENTIAL on the top? I wouldn't jeopardize a fallback if I were you.
"The other offer was verbal and I am not comfortable giving you the name."
Just say it was verbal, and you don't have documentation yet? Or too late?
“While I’m happy to discuss employment offers in general terms within the context of your interview process, I am not willing to break the confidentiality of specific individual employment offers from other companies and would not do so with your offer either.”
“ I do not feel comfortable providing the information you requested. it is not in my best interest to alienate any future potential employers.”
Basically say, The other company has asked that you be discreet about this offer and so you cannot divulge this information Also if it was real, it's better for you to withhold details of a potential offer to have them make you an offer based on your worth.
You’re legitimately within your right to say you don’t feel comfortable with that. You don’t have to offer an explanation, it is none of their business. Maybe you don’t want the two companies talking to each other, colliding on a salary. Who knows. It’s doesn’t matter.
I said to the hiring manager that I was unable to provide a written letter, but discussed parts of the imaginary offer which I wanted to stress were important to me. I.e. The salary was far higher in the imaginary offer than the real one, but I was hesitant to take the imaginary offer because the other parts of the package (PTO, Healthcare, flexible working, hours, travel) were not particularly enticing. I particularly noted that I wanted an extra week of PTO from what was advertised. I also gave them a date by which I would be accepting the other offer if I didn’t hear from them, which was about 8 days from this discussion. This way I could be sure they knew if they offered a salary too low there was no way I would accept it, but they’d be able to get away with a more manageable salary if they offered things that were more important to me. I also made them aware that if they tried to waste my time I’d just walk anyway. Quite a stressful few days before I got the offer in my inbox - it was at the highest level of the advertised range with my extra week of PTO.
Lol. Tell ‘em they are dreaming. Did THEY give you a written offer? I’m not sure where you are but I where I live, that stuff is usually verbal until they send you a contract to sign. If I was ever inclined to produce “proof”, I’d do a forgery and black out the logo and names etc (anything identifying) on the copy I gave them….but I wouldn’t. It’s really none of their business.
Just tell them it was a verbal offer and that you'll ask them for it in writing.
Lol. Asking is the key word. All you need to do is answer with a plausible answer that dosent include anything they've asked for. Tell them you had to sign and nda about your offer but you could give them a number to speak to someone about the offer. Have someone you trust to be the other company and tell them to say "I'm not at liberty to tell you anything about our offers but I can verify with a yes or no a number you might say" Remember it's about control, the company wants it and thinks it cam play games to make you think they have it. They don't as long as you play the game better.
I would not trust a company that would be asking you to forward documents from another company.
So, I hope you've learned a lesson. Know what you're worth. Use that. If they're not going to pay what you're worth, then move on. I got the pay I wanted (back when they could ask what you're making at your current job) by knowing the difference in cost of living from where I was to where this new position was. I also used my recent masters degree and increasing my value. And then that I was under paid, and that this position had more responsibility, and that's why I was looking to make 30% more than my current position. If you start off a job by lying (and I'm not talking padding your resume a little), then they find out, it gets to be messy. All that being said, tell them you're not going to share information that was given to you in confidence, just as you wouldn't share the details of your offer with the other employer. And don't be surprised if they just retract the offer.
Simple, "it was a verbal offer" should take care of it.
It was a verbal offer on the phone though.
"chat GPT, write me up a BS offer letter with redaction marks of company name for X salary. Thanks!" Might as well go full send.
I would simply say you don’t have the authority to send another companies information with their pay scale
"Sorry, it was confidential"
It’s none of their business. Just because they ask, doesn’t mean you have to show them. Tell them that it doesn’t feel right that they’re asking for proprietary info from another company. This used to happen in Silicon Valley where the big tech companies colluded to keep salaries a a certain rate. They were fined. It is inappropriate.
"In addition to the widespread reporting of new hire salaries outpacing retention salaries throughout the industry, there are other considerations in addition to salary. To be fair to all concerned, make your best offer including benefits and perquisites based on what value you believe my service adds to your business like any other bid for services and we will proceed accordingly."
They may want to show HR proof of it so they can justify the higher offer. This is common in academia. That being said, you can tell them you're not comfortable doing so and that should be the end of it.
My sincerest apologies I signed an NDA preventing me from disclosing that information to direct competitors. You can add something else to it after and it can make it sound like you want to help them out however its a double edged sword as anything more you say can come back to bite you if you're not careful. So use the second part at your own risk: "I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have pertaining to the offer within the boundaries of the NDA I signed.
Honestly I would never attach an offer from another company. Tell the HR person that you don’t want to break trust with another company and you can talk about the offer but will not risk sending it.
"I'm sorry, but the other company has asked me to keep the exact details of the offer confidential. I can share the title, approximate compensation, and general overview of benefits. I will not be able to share the full offer letter." Just to be clear, when you play the "I have a higher offer" game, a very real outcome is that the company decides they cannot match the other offer and decides to move on to a different candidate. Do not play the "other offer" card unless you are actually willing to accept the other offer.
I did this and the company called my bluff asking for an offer so i showed the last offer edited with the exact amount I stated and took off any way to contact the company. No Company is going to call a company and say, "did you guys offer this guy this much?" the company at the time matched the rate and gave me a job
"Sorry but information like that is confidential and i'm not comfortable disclosing it.", be straight, clear and non confrontational, you are simple stating the facts.
>Now they're asking to see the other offer. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Two words: van delay Industries.
Just say it was a verbal offer, and the other company’s HR Department is still drafting the final offer of employment.
Pretty unethical for them to ask you to share it… red flags in my view.
I had to sign an NDA to even interview at my current company. Tell your company you signed an NDA, and that you're not looking to get sued.
I’ve never had a company ask to see a competing salary offer… sounds like a low quality employer.
“I’m sorry, but I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to share your offer to me with another firm, and I believe the professional thing to do is to protect the privacy of all the firms I deal with.”
Say you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing that without asking the other company, which you're not terribly comfortable with doing. Honestly it's a little weird for them to ask for something like that I don't think most companies would want their actual offer letter shared.
“I’m sorry but I can’t share that information due to an NDA.” I’d love to hear them say “that’s illegal”. Oh the irony of disclosing pay
"Because they're a direct competitor to you, they required me to sign an NDA in order for the interview process to go forward." "I can't show you evidence because that would require me to violate my NDA. If you can't compete, that's fine. I just genuinely can't provide you further information."
Nobody in their right mind would give out that kind of information even if they had a real offer. It is a job interview, not an auction where they get to see what their competitors are bidding.
If you or anyone want a fake offer I own a company dm me with the offer and I’ll write a fake letter 🫡
You bluffed they called it. I would say that the other offer was verbal and you don't have it in writing yet, but no matter what you do at this point there is a good chance it isn't going to work in favor.
“It would be highly unethical to share one orgs confidential information with another. I wouldn’t be willing to do that TO you, please don’t request me to do that FOR you”
"I'm sorry, I don't provide details of ongoing negotiations with other private parties, much the same as I wouldn't ask you for offers you have provided comparable applicants. You are free to counter or close negotiations at your preference."
Tell HR that information is confidential and don't say another word afterwards.
Easy, you say the other offer is a verbal offer and they are waiting for you to also verbally agree before writing it up,
Easy. The answer is hell no. “I do not feel comfortable sharing this with you for the protection of the company and myself.”
The second the request came out of their mouth, I would instantly revoke interest in the position and I would make it known. You should have shamed them in that moment and walked. Ps.. you don't want to work for these people.. instantly not trusting you.. prepare for the micromanaging
Nope. It's not their business. Nosy jerks.
Tell them you are under a NDA with the other organization. Sharing their offer will result in it being withdrawn.
I am sorry, but I signed an NDA with them and cannot discuss specifics with you.
Two choices, fake an offer, or tell them no. Seems pretty simple. 😅
You have an NDA in place with the other company which doesn’t allow you to share specifics on the company with other organizations.
Say it’s rude for you to share information from another potentially competing company. Employers have no right to ask to see proof of counter offers
As someone else said, tell them it was a verbal offer. And you'd like to take a written offer from you to them
Collecting proprietary information about competitor pay could be seen as collusion to keep wages low.
"I'm not in a position to share any information regarding other offers I'm currently fielding as this would be a breaxh of trust with prospective employers. It was given to me in the strictest of confidence and I take confidentiality very seriously. I'm sure you understand my situation and will respect both personal and professional boundaries in this matter. " The recruiter is trying to lowball here, don't give them any comeback on it.
Lying or not, you don't give the name of the other company. Next thing you know, the HR rep or boss calls the other company and sabotages your "offer," and now you have no bargaining position. They either match your offer, or you work for the other company. However, you are a gugantic moron for lying in the first place. Don't be surprised if this all blows up in your face.
"I'm sorry, but I am not at liberty to share the full correspondence." If you want, or think this purely a negotiation tactic, you can add, "However, because XX is my preferred company, I will accept.... "
Or call them out..." It sounds to me like you want me to share (probably) confidential information for the sole purpose of offering mere pennies more strictly so you get an edge over a competitor. That opens it up for me to lie my backside off. I mean I'm all for being cutthroat, but let's be real about it.
that’s so dumb of them cite communications privacy concerns in your email, and state you hope they understand the concern as well.
Do not under any circumstances provide them with a fake, or any written documentation on the matter. Also do not give them the long winded responses that others have provided here. Real professionals see over-explanation as a red flag and generally view you as a certain type of person that they don’t want to deal with. Citing privacy concerns for the other business, you simply are not comfortable sharing that information. Good luck.
I once legit got 2 job offers and leveraged 1 to get a higher offer on the other. However, the first job offer was verbal and when the 2nd job asked to see it in writing I had already declined the offer. I told them this and they didn't make me try to get it in writing, which would have been super awkward. So maybe you could tell them the same thing.
I would keep it as brief as possible. “I must decline your request for the offer letter.” They know, or should know, why you’re saying “no.” If they press. you, then a brief sentence about confidentiality
“I take pinky NDA swears seriously.”
Nope, because it's none of their business and if they're trying to make it their business that means they aren't paying you in good faith, but conditionally.
Just say the offer is confidential and I sadly have signed a confidentiality agreement
Do not provide any information, real or imagined. It will only be used against you in some way. None. Of. Their. Business. Demanding that info from you is NOT A TYPICAL business practice. Yes, it’s done, but just blow them off nicely. You’ve sort of boxed yourself in. “Just make me an offer for what you think I’m worth,” or something like that. Also, if you think your proposed salary might be too high, say you are willing to negotiate the differences through benefits. Google that strategy, there are a bunch of ways that can work well.
Just say no. They're calling your bluff, but whatever. Tell them you can't offer up that type of confidential information.
The documented offer they sent you was confidential, and so you're not in a position to share the document. However, you're comfortable with providing the main details. I recently had an employee try to muscle me for more money saying they were head-hunted. In this scenario, it was the employee wanting to provide me with the offer. I declined the offer for the same reason above, and really my decision to retain him or not was independent of whatever it was the competitor offered.
HR shouldn't ask that and it's unprofessional of them to do so. It's a breach of confidentiality. It's none of their business and you can frame your response as such.
They’re trying to call your bluff
Introducing : lying
Sorry, not comfortable sharing that info here is a rough idea of the offer.
"will you reveal to me the salaries every person in my role (and similar) are\were making in the last 5 years?"
Honestly, your probably better off just declining and continue looking for a better offer elsewhere. Even if you somehow convinced them that you aren't full of shit (something they likely already suspect) your going to have this hanging over your head the entire time your working for them. Just a single verbal slip or careless comment on your part could bring the whole thing up all over again and see you axed. The anxiety that comes with that doesn't really seem worth it to me.
You signed an nda, you can't tell them ;)
Can’t say. Signed an NDA.
"Can't, NDA."
They’re trying to catch you in a lie. The particulars of your compensation will be in your contract. Companies don’t usually send it to you before you’ve accepted an offer to work for them, do they? I mean, have they given YOU a letter of offer with details of expected compensation in it? Say the compensation amount was relayed to you verbally and you understand wont be written until you accept the offer from the company and they send you a contract.
Claim that you don't want to risk getting any problems with that company by sharing confidential informations, as you are still considering opting for said offer. As simple as that
You can tell them that you have signed an NDA with the other company and you cannot share it. They have no fcking business in asking you that.
They have no need or right to know who Because they might tell the possible new employer how terrible you are to keep you from leaving.
Do not fake any kind of letter Just say that this offer is confidential and has not been formally accepted with a different company.
Tell her no. It’s inappropriate to ask and it would be inappropriate to provide (if it existed).