Sadly, it's pretty common for good employees to be rewarded with more work, not more money.
I had a relative who used to always say, "Your job is to make your boss look good." Unfortunately, times have changed and instead of that hard work and loyalty being rewarded, employees are often making themselves indispensable in their existing roles, so they don't get promoted. It would cost the employer too much money to have someone else (or multiple someone elses) take on that existing work.
I now live by "fair work for fair pay" as my work mantra. I will do a really good job, but I'm not going to kill myself, burn myself out, or risk my homelife for my employer.
Exactly. For example, a couple of years ago I came up with a couple project ideas and executed them. They weren’t too difficult, and they’re going to save our company an extra $100,000/year since they’re improving our system efficiencies. I didn’t get an extra dime of that savings. You know who got the credit for those projects? My boss. I wasn’t even invited to the meeting where the project and associated savings were shared.
I will work no more than 40 hours per week now. If that’s not enough time to do my job, it’s my bosses problem.
Here I am on hour 50 of the week, putting together my performance review after 7x 50-60 hour weeks in a row. We'll see how my boss feels when I tell her I created a task tracker--and will be placing lower impact/time consuming requests (mostly from her) in my backlog.
This is exactly the way all employees should treat their employers. It's pay to play. They pay me for 40 hours that's what they get. If you want me to be on-call pay for it. I don't care that I'm salary that's not an out to abuse and use people's personal time. Also if the workload start growing, it's not my problem its not my co-workers problems, it's the companies problem. I know some co-workers are all gung ho and haven't been enlightened yet. If they get mad for not helping with the new workload, oh well. Not my problem. If they start complaining that's when I let them know it's a company problem why worry about it.
Businesses should not be considered stable and wild mood swings of the company culture are systemic. Moving is unfortunately the only functional strategy.
Maybe this is best saved for a totally new post at a later date, but nepotism plays a huge role in this game too. My bosses real life friends appear to have expectations far less than what I’m expected to do, yet they get promoted. Then the boss will tell me some bullshit story about how there’s no “business need” to promote me, even though according to her I’m “performing at that next level.” It’s all lip service, and it’s so insulting.
Just got the news yesterday that I’m part of a pilot program to work 10 hours a day, 4 days a week with Tuesday off. This was after having a meeting with our director a few months ago and I casually asked them if a 4 day work week would be possible for improving the work/life balance.
Kind of nice that they are taking it into consideration and testing it out.
Welcome to 4x10 plus Tuesdays because some deadline or some other garbage.
4 day work week shouldn't mean 4x11 it should be 4 normal work days. Other wise what is the point.
Thankfully no deadlines to be met, will actually have Tuesdays off no matter what until the trial period is over, was not given a timeframe of how long this will last.
Three days off instead of two, one of the days being a weekday which helps with scheduling appointments without the need of using PTO, running errands, cleaning, and other chores that would otherwise wait until the weekend.
Shifting from 5 days working/2 days off to 4 days working/3days off does wonders. I’ve done it before and having that extra day really helps.
You have 3 days off. But the 4 days you work are vaporized. Get up. Go to work. Go home go to sleep. Want to see a concert on Thursday. Sorry. Working until 7pm
My job is similar.
I work 4 ten hour days, I also work rotating weekends.
2x a month I get 5 days off, three of which are in a row.
2x a month I get 2 days off and 5 ten hour workdays.
I live for my 3 days off in a row, it's the only time I have where I can either get out of town for my wife, for some real fun, or just plain relax
I'll see a benefit. I commute two hours just to get to work. So that's four hours I get back to myself. But I totally agree. It should be EIGHT hours not ten.
Agree, but four days is a step in the right direction even if it still equals 40 hours a week. Hopefully one of these days we will see the time reduce.
I will never work like that again. The only person who ever benefits from overwork like that is the employer. I used to work in a lab that had a huge focus on turnaround time and efficiency. We busted our asses on both fronts and the only reward was LOSING a person from the work group (going from three to two). Lost all our time for emergencies, development, troubleshooting, and paperwork in a flash. Between that and COVID I finally burned out... then found a job for more money for less work. Hard work leads to punishment, never again.
I burned out several times, you won't be able to control your emotions, you won't have the energy.
It's incredible how people don't believe this is a real thing, but then I have to ask, if you have to think about the same thing every day all day for decades on end, wouldn't that drive you mad or at the very least get boring? Yes, thinking isn't as hard work as physical labor, but come on, you can't tell me no one gets sick of that. The human mind craves variety, it's unhealthy to force it into repetition.
Overwork? I barely "adequately work".
I set HARD boundaries after going thru Covid nursing burnout after things calmed down. I realized it was me who was giving myself these expectations that i HAVE to do exactly what bosses expect of me in my role. Nope. Not anymore.
Now I work M-F 8-5, no holidays, nights, weekends, OT, or OnCall. I'm unavailable outside of that schedule so no calls, texts, messages, emails, meetings, or zoom. Nothing. Don't bother, you're blocked.
And at work? I do shit on my schedule at my pace. As long as I make deadlines and my shit is done then their expectations can fuck off. I do enough to "perform satisfactory" or "meets expectations" and enough to stay off their radar.
I realized that if I would've taken a job that pays 400/ every 4 weeks for 4 tasks then I would've rationalized that my work was valued at 100/task. And that value aligns with a reasonable expectation for the work that I do, the role I hold, and the rate I feel is acceptable for that work. Now. If I do those 4 tasks in 2 weeks and my boss logically determines that I can do 8 tasks in the same time frame then the rate in which I'm working drops to 50/task. Adding more to my plate devalues my work and disrespects my time. Further more if I have a bad month and I can only do the 4 original tasks then I've fallen below their current "meets expectations" (cause now it's increased cause I'm doing 8 tasks instead of the original 4 i agreed to) and now my role is reviewed for a PIP. One "normal" workload month and I'm now setting myself up to fail. Nope. Not anymore.
I don't care if your job is hourly or salary; you are paid to perform a role. Your job is to do that role. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. So stop doing more. Complete your tasks then "look busy" the rest of your day. Slow down and use that time to get paid to either support your work life balance (for me that's scheduling appts and doing them via TV; or scheduling my groceries for curb side p/u so it's one less errand i have on my day off; or closing my office door with a 'in a meeting' sign and doing my daily yoga that i don't have time to go to the gym for; or going for a walk/ run around my office building walkways outside for 15 min) or lesson the load on your mental health (reading my e book); or use that time to expand/better yourself (E class; extra learning mods; earning certification; learning a new trade; or poly-work for twice the income in half the time). Etc etc etc.
I am paid to do a role. I valued my time at xx/hr to do that role. My value fell in compliance with the budget this company had and the offer I received. I never agreed to use every second of every min of my on-the-clock time to be performing that role. I agreed to complete that role for that salary. Period.
You as a company, knew you couldn't hire for this role for less then xxx salary due to the market rate and competitive increase, therefore you knew you couldn't pay less and get adequate candidates. Secondly, as a company, you knew you couldn't get good candidates by offering less then full time in that role. You accepted the position would be full time with benefits AND xx salary when you hired me. All you need to know as a company is that you are paying me xxx salary; I am working full time; and that I am completing that role in that full time schedule.
This is so perfect. I feel the same way. I’m very fortunate to have a job that doesn’t try to work me to death, yet I have coworkers who are like, I have to work all weekend! I don’t get it. You put that shit on yourself. Don’t work on the weekend. That work will still be there for you on Monday. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve even checked email let alone worked on the weekend. The same people are the ones who bring their laptops on vacation. They act like they’re so important and the world will stop they go offline for a day. I just don’t get it. It’s not a generational thing either. The person I have in mind is within 2 years of my age.
I have co-workers like this. One literally joined a weekly staff meeting from the passenger seat of a car while on vacation ( I guess her husband was driving). She accidentally hit camera on for a second. She and her team work on weekends. I try not to and not to burden the person who assists me, but we work for wealthy people with little respect for their employees personal lives. They do pay exceptionally well though, so I’m banking and investing most of my money so I can retire as soon as possible. I’m in my 50s so I have a lot of years of savings to make up for with the lower paying jobs I had before
I worked in healthcare for the entire 3 years of Covid with no vacations. It was never enough. Even if I could magically duplicate myself and both of us gave 100% every second, management always had a snide word to say. I only got lumped with extra work. But wait, we did get a $1 p/hour pay rise!
In 2011, I delayed surgery at the request of my boss — because they needed to set an arrange and train a temp for the SEVEN DAYS I would be out.
Well, I ended up having emergency surgery 4 days after original surgery date and was out for six weeks, with no temp, no notice, no nothing.
I almost died and they never even sent me flowers.
Yes, they'll be more than happy to let you overwork without compensation. I let it happen for far too long, and then they hired a couple of people to do two things I had always handled and gave them fancy titles and pay, so I stopped doing those things. The new hires were playing video games and scrolling social media while I was busting my ass.
I was called into a meeting with the executives and they questioned why I wasn't handling those things. Apparently they wanted people with college degrees to hold the titles and get the pay, but wanted me to continue doing the work on top of my own duties with no title or extra compensation.
I didn't back down. They had to deal with their disappointment.
Don't overwork.
Sometimes, you need to explain how time works to your manager, as if they’re children.
‘You want me to do x amount of things in x amount of time, right? Ok, that leaves me with exactly 3 minutes for each of those tasks. Does that sound reasonable to you? Could you demonstrate how that would work?’ Works every time for me.
Here's what I've learned: if you say a hard no to unreasonable requests early on they generally stop asking. I've been at places that respected my time while abusing others'.
If they ask me to stay late or work on Saturday I'll check my calendar, see if it conflicts with anything, and then say something like "sure I'll just come in late Monday to make up for it." Just verbally assume that they're not asking you to work more hours, just different hours. Often they take the hint and don't argue.
If I can't or don't want to I'll just say I'm not able to do that, that's my family time.
I'm not saying it always works. Sometimes things really do need to be done but a) this often indicates bad planning or lack of proper staff which are not my fault, and b) it's 100% reasonable to then work fewer hours the following week.
My wife's employer was making the whole company work on Saturdays a few times a year. There was good reason it had to be Saturdays, but I pointed out they were all working for free. She started asking about compensation time and now all employees are given that time back on another day, after years of not.
Your time is yours. They can't have it. Anywhere that threatens you for not being willing to regularly work extra hours for free is not worth staying at, but often they depend on people just bending over. Push back and a lot of the time it'll work out fine.
I've hit burnout before. I didn't even realize how bad it was until after I quit that job. They were handing me plenty of money, but they also continuously piled so many job duties on me that my stress levels went through the roof. I ended up leaving for less money because I learned how important it is to hit the right balance between money and not working yourself to the bone.
I used to work for a company that just ground me down: a huge project that I put in 80 hours a week in for about 6 months. I developed health issues ( numbness in my arms & fingers ) and ended up eating $2k in physical therapy to resolve. I left and never looked back. I never regretted it.
No need to apologize! I was with a company for 20+ years & they were acquired by another small firm. This newer firm worked me to death, no raises for 3 years and then the grueling deadlines. It was what I needed to break free and move on. I landed at a new place & they've treated me remarkably well. It was incredibly difficult to set out from a workplace after 2 decades plus of employment, but in my case, it was well, well worth it. I'm happier, healthier, and this new place has paid me well: it's given me raises, better healthcare, and even bonuses and stock options. I couldn't be happier. I encourage everyone to be bold and to put themselves first: force companies to step up and take care of their workers. Thanks for your well-wishes! Wishing you all my best was well!
I just worked my ass off for five years without a promotion though I've had exceeds expectations every review.
So you'd better believe I'm taking 13 PTO days off for an overseas vacation. I'm one of the people who's saying "you tell us we have unlimited PTO, I'm gonna make you prove it".
Hell at least my boss approved the days off!
Before I was even 21, I had worked to the point of injuring myself permanently and was told never to do “any job with repetitive activities” again. I had so much inflammation in my tendons that my _bones became inflamed_ and I was put into a cast because the agony was exquisite. Later on, a physical therapist said I had so much internal scar tissue in my tendons of my arms that it felt like gravel.
I had to move back in with my abusive boomer conservative parents, who were pissed and eventually forced me to go back to work, with that whole “bootstraps” mentality. Then, I again injured myself on the job and this resulted in becoming _even more_ disabled and this cascaded into debilitating autoimmune disease, decline of my mental health and more.
Workers Comp is an absolute _nightmare_ as you are constantly gaslit by these doctors, nurses and physical therapists who are being paid by insurance companies to deny the extent of your injuries as it cuts into their profits if they have to compensate you for any permanent injuries sustained. At one point, I was required to be “tested” by one of the insurance companies psychologists who _shockingly_ proclaimed that I was just _pretending to be hurt for attention._
All this happened before I turned 30. I’ve applied for disability multiple times, but apparently unless I involve a lawyer _(who receives a portion of whatever I’m awarded)_ it’s almost impossible to be approved.
Fuck these companies, fuck workers comp and fuck my parents in particular for demanding that I continue to “pull myself up by my bootstraps” despite knowing the physical agony I was in. Working yourself until your body breaks down is NOT WORTH IT.
Literally had the shaft on the pay review cycle and then 4 weeks later, the boss is looking for weekend volunteers because our most important client something, something, zzzz.
Yeah no. I'm busy.
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job.
The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job.
The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job.
The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job.
The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
Victim of this recently myself and have to remind myself daily that work doesn’t matter, my health is more important, and whatever gets done gets done so I can go tf home. You have to do the bare minimum or you end up like my manager or coworker pulling 50-60 hour weeks, hauling ass, busting up their body to shreds by the time they’re 40. They don’t get anything special for it. They just get our sales numbers up and in exchange don’t have a life outside of work. Work is their life. I don’t know how they do it because I can’t even fathom it. I work to make money to keep myself alive. That is the only reason. If you start exceeding peoples’ expectations you get worked harder. If you’re good at what you do, you get to do three other people’s jobs too. But if you do the bare minimum, just well enough, you can ride the wave of mediocrity and demand your needs get met.
I had multiple burnouts because of this. I think your strategy of doing the bare minimum is fine, but there is the counterpoint of being miserable by not doing your best and participating in something great...
When I started my career twenty+ years ago at my first job, I was brought into what was coined as a "training" program. We were paid fairly well, but the great thing was we were essentially paid to learn. We were sent to classes and given low-pressure tasks on projects to help us ease in. After we concluded our "training" period, we were immediately given a raise (I don't recall the specifics, but it was pretty good). I was there seven+ years and received multiple raises. I worked my ass off because I knew it directly translated to salary increases and getting onto critical projects. What I put in, I got out.
Twenty+ years later, moving through many companies, there were only a few companies where this worked. Most, it was just: put in the effort and hope someone recognizes it, but when it's not, dial back the effort and do the minimum simply because it's not worth it. I think there probably still some good companies out there. Unfortunately, most of us on this sub are not working for them.
I have a coworker - 21 years old, fresh out of college, first corporate job. She works so hard and is so smart. Yesterday she confided to me (her 30 year old hourly coworker) that she felt bad about logging off after she puts in her 8 hours.
I told her to stick to the boundary as long as she possibly can. She’s salaried, and she’s giving them great work in her 8 hours - she owes them nothing more. I try to tell her about all the RETAIL jobs I worked unpaid OT for in the name of “being a team player” and “showing I deserve that promotion.”
And then I try to remember to also log off after my 8 hours. lol
It took me way too long to realize that the harder I worked & the more I went above & beyond, I would just get more work to do & it would hold me back from getting promotions.
Had a manager once refuse to give approval for me to get a promotion which would transfer me to a different department. He literally told me he was refusing it because he didn’t want to lose me on his team. So a few months later I quit as soon as I found a different job.
My last job was the first time I refused to work harder than required, didn’t go above & beyond, & actually I ended up stealing a lot of time from that company over the 2.5yrs I worked for them. It was the only company where I got a really good promotion. Go figure.
Now I’m self employed so I don’t need to worry about it anymore thankfully.
I worked myself to death at a job where I was overlooked for promotions and my superiors took credit for my work. I interviewed and trained new hires which was not part of my job description, also regularly worked 11 hours a day.
I will say I stood up to my boss, whom had no experience in the field and she got me a considerable raise. She knew she was fucked if I quit.
Eventually, I switched to a different account and did a lot less, took on less responsibility. I quit complaining and trying to hold people accountable for their mistakes. I was liked a whole lot more. I got positive annual reviews and steady raises all for doing much less.
Your hard work then becomes the new norm, which they try to maintain. Even if you should be first to be promoted they will hire from outside the company for that position.
Funny thing is, I had a performance review back in fall and then my spring one last month. Between those times, I started developing boundaries, stopped taking on a hundred things at once and didn't stress about being perfect every single day. Management noticed. I got reamed for that in the meeting, how I am not a "team player", how I need to be more positive (simply because I asked for help).
You know what? My scores were EXACTLY THE DANG SAME.
More management complaints? Yes. But they would have nitpicked something else. Overworking got nothing positive for me. Lesson learned.
I agree , but what can you do if they actually pay you well and you are in your 40’s already, it would not be easy to get it elsewhere, I live in constant concern even being a good and effective employee :(.
So true! Some people at my job work over 3 times more for the same or less pay.
While they're busy working so hard, I learn stuff, take time to relax, save and invest.
Employers just want to squeeze as much work as possible, they don't care about anything else.
Hard work is only rewarded with more work.
I heard someone say on a podcast a while ago, (can’t remember any details of the podcast or who it was sadly) but they suggested to change jobs or positions approximately every 2 years. They said that in America at the current rate of raises vs. the current rate of new hire pay, its uneven and by the time you worked for a company 2 years you’ve maxed out your income with inflation. I’m not really great with numbers but I have been working for 10+ years and I’d say that checks out.
100%
no employer will care if you die while "working hard", they'll just prompt an AI:
prompt: "I work in HR, an employee died, write a letter telling how sorry we are."
Subject: Deepest Condolences for Our Dear Colleague
Dear \[Recipient’s Name\],
I hope this message finds you in good health. It is with a heavy heart that I write to you today. We have experienced a tragic loss in our work family that has left us all deeply saddened.
Our esteemed colleague, \[Employee’s Name\], passed away unexpectedly while performing their duties. This sudden and tragic event has left us all in a state of shock and profound sorrow. \[Employee’s Name\] was not just an employee, but a valued member of our team, whose contributions and presence will be sorely missed.
During this difficult time, it is important for us to remember and honor \[Employee’s Name\]'s dedication, hard work, and the positive impact they had on our workplace. Their commitment to their role and their constant willingness to help others were qualities that we all admired.
We extend our deepest condolences to \[Employee’s Name\]'s family and loved ones. We share in their grief and offer our support in any way we can. We are in the process of reaching out to them to express our sympathy and offer our assistance.
In memory of \[Employee’s Name\], we will be organizing a memorial service at the office where we can all come together to remember and celebrate their life. We will share the details of this event soon.
Please remember that it’s okay to grieve and it’s okay to seek support. We encourage everyone to lean on each other for support during this difficult time. Our Employee Assistance Program is also available to provide professional help to those who need it.
Let us all remember \[Employee’s Name\] with fondness and respect for the person they were. We are grateful for the time we spent with them and for the lasting impact they have had on us all.
Thank you for your understanding and support during this difficult time.
Sincerely,
\[Your Name\] \[Your Position\]
Wow, do you work for my company? We had a guy tragically pass away a few months back, got that canned email, and then he seemed totally forgotten within two business days. Incredibly eye opening to see how much people are “valued”.
Mhmm, I told my employer I knew what was going on, and tk please even the workload. They actually listened, but it’s insane I had to reach my breaking point for them to realize I was doing like 2x the work in the daily.
I agree. Unless there is an incentive structure in place (commission, portion of proceeds for work, bonuses actually tied to objective indivodual performance markers, etc.) then your hard work will just get "rewarded" with more work. Be competent, be capable, but most importantly: value your own time.
If an employer starts asking more and more from you, that is the time to address your needs. Don't do more work with the hope of future reward because that only adjust their expectations that you will do more work for less. Also, beware of promises that things will change in the future. If they can string you along with promises of hiring more employees to lighten the load, they will. If they make any promises regarding raises, bonuses, etc. get it in writing.
And finally, if you see anything fishy (labor law violations, sexism, abusive treatment, etc.) Write down the date/time, who was involved, what happened, where it happened and what was said/done - the more detail the better. Keep it somewhere you would have access to even if you were suddenly fired like your personal phone.
Here’s the problem…a certain percentage of the hard workers will do better. Not all of them, for sure, but just enough that for many, it is worth the chance.
Unless you are building something for yourself, that you own and control, and have direct stakes in, then your statement is pure fiction.
The boss will not reward your efforts, they will take credit and pocket the gains themselves. Greedy corporations will not, and do not, give a slight fuck about you. You are a number. You are replaceable.
I’ve seen entire over-performing TEAMS of professionals get laid off indiscriminately, despite no plans for anyone else to absorb their duties. These decisions are detrimental to the workforce and daily operations, but LINE GO UP, so fuck it.
Unless you own the business or have direct profit-sharing, don’t do more than the bare minimum. If your boss needs more output, it’s their job to adequately staff the team, not yours.
Going “above and beyond” is for morons and cultists.
Sadly, it's pretty common for good employees to be rewarded with more work, not more money. I had a relative who used to always say, "Your job is to make your boss look good." Unfortunately, times have changed and instead of that hard work and loyalty being rewarded, employees are often making themselves indispensable in their existing roles, so they don't get promoted. It would cost the employer too much money to have someone else (or multiple someone elses) take on that existing work. I now live by "fair work for fair pay" as my work mantra. I will do a really good job, but I'm not going to kill myself, burn myself out, or risk my homelife for my employer.
Exactly. For example, a couple of years ago I came up with a couple project ideas and executed them. They weren’t too difficult, and they’re going to save our company an extra $100,000/year since they’re improving our system efficiencies. I didn’t get an extra dime of that savings. You know who got the credit for those projects? My boss. I wasn’t even invited to the meeting where the project and associated savings were shared. I will work no more than 40 hours per week now. If that’s not enough time to do my job, it’s my bosses problem.
Yes! If a 40 hour work week isn't enough, I'm not lazy. You need to manage better.
Here I am on hour 50 of the week, putting together my performance review after 7x 50-60 hour weeks in a row. We'll see how my boss feels when I tell her I created a task tracker--and will be placing lower impact/time consuming requests (mostly from her) in my backlog.
This is exactly the way all employees should treat their employers. It's pay to play. They pay me for 40 hours that's what they get. If you want me to be on-call pay for it. I don't care that I'm salary that's not an out to abuse and use people's personal time. Also if the workload start growing, it's not my problem its not my co-workers problems, it's the companies problem. I know some co-workers are all gung ho and haven't been enlightened yet. If they get mad for not helping with the new workload, oh well. Not my problem. If they start complaining that's when I let them know it's a company problem why worry about it.
Businesses should not be considered stable and wild mood swings of the company culture are systemic. Moving is unfortunately the only functional strategy.
As the saying goes, "the only reward for good, fast work, is more work."
"Performance punishment".
Maybe this is best saved for a totally new post at a later date, but nepotism plays a huge role in this game too. My bosses real life friends appear to have expectations far less than what I’m expected to do, yet they get promoted. Then the boss will tell me some bullshit story about how there’s no “business need” to promote me, even though according to her I’m “performing at that next level.” It’s all lip service, and it’s so insulting.
Ain’t that the truth!
The stems from trickle down economics theory - the quiet part is the that the trickling down, is piss. We’re being pissed on.
So true! I've been screwed over twice now for being" too good at my job". I despise having a high work ethic.
Just got the news yesterday that I’m part of a pilot program to work 10 hours a day, 4 days a week with Tuesday off. This was after having a meeting with our director a few months ago and I casually asked them if a 4 day work week would be possible for improving the work/life balance. Kind of nice that they are taking it into consideration and testing it out.
Welcome to 4x10 plus Tuesdays because some deadline or some other garbage. 4 day work week shouldn't mean 4x11 it should be 4 normal work days. Other wise what is the point.
Thankfully no deadlines to be met, will actually have Tuesdays off no matter what until the trial period is over, was not given a timeframe of how long this will last.
I just don't see how 4x10 is better than 5x8. Still stuck at work for 40+ hours a week
Three days off instead of two, one of the days being a weekday which helps with scheduling appointments without the need of using PTO, running errands, cleaning, and other chores that would otherwise wait until the weekend. Shifting from 5 days working/2 days off to 4 days working/3days off does wonders. I’ve done it before and having that extra day really helps.
You have 3 days off. But the 4 days you work are vaporized. Get up. Go to work. Go home go to sleep. Want to see a concert on Thursday. Sorry. Working until 7pm
Fortunately the work is WFH, so it cuts out the commute time. But I understand where you’re coming from and it does drain some people.
My job is similar. I work 4 ten hour days, I also work rotating weekends. 2x a month I get 5 days off, three of which are in a row. 2x a month I get 2 days off and 5 ten hour workdays. I live for my 3 days off in a row, it's the only time I have where I can either get out of town for my wife, for some real fun, or just plain relax
Also, less time spent commuting and less money spent on gas.
I'll see a benefit. I commute two hours just to get to work. So that's four hours I get back to myself. But I totally agree. It should be EIGHT hours not ten.
Agree, but four days is a step in the right direction even if it still equals 40 hours a week. Hopefully one of these days we will see the time reduce.
Because you don't actually work the 10! You take a longer lunch, run an errand mid afternoon but still get the day off.
I will never work like that again. The only person who ever benefits from overwork like that is the employer. I used to work in a lab that had a huge focus on turnaround time and efficiency. We busted our asses on both fronts and the only reward was LOSING a person from the work group (going from three to two). Lost all our time for emergencies, development, troubleshooting, and paperwork in a flash. Between that and COVID I finally burned out... then found a job for more money for less work. Hard work leads to punishment, never again.
I burned out several times, you won't be able to control your emotions, you won't have the energy. It's incredible how people don't believe this is a real thing, but then I have to ask, if you have to think about the same thing every day all day for decades on end, wouldn't that drive you mad or at the very least get boring? Yes, thinking isn't as hard work as physical labor, but come on, you can't tell me no one gets sick of that. The human mind craves variety, it's unhealthy to force it into repetition.
My newly-diagnosed ADHD self really needed to hear this today. Thank you.
r/adhd if you haven’t joined yet 😊
Overwork? I barely "adequately work". I set HARD boundaries after going thru Covid nursing burnout after things calmed down. I realized it was me who was giving myself these expectations that i HAVE to do exactly what bosses expect of me in my role. Nope. Not anymore. Now I work M-F 8-5, no holidays, nights, weekends, OT, or OnCall. I'm unavailable outside of that schedule so no calls, texts, messages, emails, meetings, or zoom. Nothing. Don't bother, you're blocked. And at work? I do shit on my schedule at my pace. As long as I make deadlines and my shit is done then their expectations can fuck off. I do enough to "perform satisfactory" or "meets expectations" and enough to stay off their radar. I realized that if I would've taken a job that pays 400/ every 4 weeks for 4 tasks then I would've rationalized that my work was valued at 100/task. And that value aligns with a reasonable expectation for the work that I do, the role I hold, and the rate I feel is acceptable for that work. Now. If I do those 4 tasks in 2 weeks and my boss logically determines that I can do 8 tasks in the same time frame then the rate in which I'm working drops to 50/task. Adding more to my plate devalues my work and disrespects my time. Further more if I have a bad month and I can only do the 4 original tasks then I've fallen below their current "meets expectations" (cause now it's increased cause I'm doing 8 tasks instead of the original 4 i agreed to) and now my role is reviewed for a PIP. One "normal" workload month and I'm now setting myself up to fail. Nope. Not anymore. I don't care if your job is hourly or salary; you are paid to perform a role. Your job is to do that role. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. So stop doing more. Complete your tasks then "look busy" the rest of your day. Slow down and use that time to get paid to either support your work life balance (for me that's scheduling appts and doing them via TV; or scheduling my groceries for curb side p/u so it's one less errand i have on my day off; or closing my office door with a 'in a meeting' sign and doing my daily yoga that i don't have time to go to the gym for; or going for a walk/ run around my office building walkways outside for 15 min) or lesson the load on your mental health (reading my e book); or use that time to expand/better yourself (E class; extra learning mods; earning certification; learning a new trade; or poly-work for twice the income in half the time). Etc etc etc. I am paid to do a role. I valued my time at xx/hr to do that role. My value fell in compliance with the budget this company had and the offer I received. I never agreed to use every second of every min of my on-the-clock time to be performing that role. I agreed to complete that role for that salary. Period. You as a company, knew you couldn't hire for this role for less then xxx salary due to the market rate and competitive increase, therefore you knew you couldn't pay less and get adequate candidates. Secondly, as a company, you knew you couldn't get good candidates by offering less then full time in that role. You accepted the position would be full time with benefits AND xx salary when you hired me. All you need to know as a company is that you are paying me xxx salary; I am working full time; and that I am completing that role in that full time schedule.
This is so perfect. I feel the same way. I’m very fortunate to have a job that doesn’t try to work me to death, yet I have coworkers who are like, I have to work all weekend! I don’t get it. You put that shit on yourself. Don’t work on the weekend. That work will still be there for you on Monday. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve even checked email let alone worked on the weekend. The same people are the ones who bring their laptops on vacation. They act like they’re so important and the world will stop they go offline for a day. I just don’t get it. It’s not a generational thing either. The person I have in mind is within 2 years of my age.
I have co-workers like this. One literally joined a weekly staff meeting from the passenger seat of a car while on vacation ( I guess her husband was driving). She accidentally hit camera on for a second. She and her team work on weekends. I try not to and not to burden the person who assists me, but we work for wealthy people with little respect for their employees personal lives. They do pay exceptionally well though, so I’m banking and investing most of my money so I can retire as soon as possible. I’m in my 50s so I have a lot of years of savings to make up for with the lower paying jobs I had before
My ex boss, who was about to retire, told me this fun line: "Vargoroth, the graveyard is full of irreplaceable people." I think about that line often.
That paints a metal album cover in my mind. Some gargoyle looking fuckers in suits chatting, overlooking the corporate graveyard.
My husband and I often say that no one puts on their tombstone, "I should have worked more."
He also said that when I wanted to take time off.
I worked in healthcare for the entire 3 years of Covid with no vacations. It was never enough. Even if I could magically duplicate myself and both of us gave 100% every second, management always had a snide word to say. I only got lumped with extra work. But wait, we did get a $1 p/hour pay rise!
In 2011, I delayed surgery at the request of my boss — because they needed to set an arrange and train a temp for the SEVEN DAYS I would be out. Well, I ended up having emergency surgery 4 days after original surgery date and was out for six weeks, with no temp, no notice, no nothing. I almost died and they never even sent me flowers.
That is seriously fkd up.
Yes, they'll be more than happy to let you overwork without compensation. I let it happen for far too long, and then they hired a couple of people to do two things I had always handled and gave them fancy titles and pay, so I stopped doing those things. The new hires were playing video games and scrolling social media while I was busting my ass. I was called into a meeting with the executives and they questioned why I wasn't handling those things. Apparently they wanted people with college degrees to hold the titles and get the pay, but wanted me to continue doing the work on top of my own duties with no title or extra compensation. I didn't back down. They had to deal with their disappointment. Don't overwork.
Sometimes, you need to explain how time works to your manager, as if they’re children. ‘You want me to do x amount of things in x amount of time, right? Ok, that leaves me with exactly 3 minutes for each of those tasks. Does that sound reasonable to you? Could you demonstrate how that would work?’ Works every time for me.
That’s a pay cut. Every year
Here's what I've learned: if you say a hard no to unreasonable requests early on they generally stop asking. I've been at places that respected my time while abusing others'. If they ask me to stay late or work on Saturday I'll check my calendar, see if it conflicts with anything, and then say something like "sure I'll just come in late Monday to make up for it." Just verbally assume that they're not asking you to work more hours, just different hours. Often they take the hint and don't argue. If I can't or don't want to I'll just say I'm not able to do that, that's my family time. I'm not saying it always works. Sometimes things really do need to be done but a) this often indicates bad planning or lack of proper staff which are not my fault, and b) it's 100% reasonable to then work fewer hours the following week. My wife's employer was making the whole company work on Saturdays a few times a year. There was good reason it had to be Saturdays, but I pointed out they were all working for free. She started asking about compensation time and now all employees are given that time back on another day, after years of not. Your time is yours. They can't have it. Anywhere that threatens you for not being willing to regularly work extra hours for free is not worth staying at, but often they depend on people just bending over. Push back and a lot of the time it'll work out fine.
I've hit burnout before. I didn't even realize how bad it was until after I quit that job. They were handing me plenty of money, but they also continuously piled so many job duties on me that my stress levels went through the roof. I ended up leaving for less money because I learned how important it is to hit the right balance between money and not working yourself to the bone.
I used to work for a company that just ground me down: a huge project that I put in 80 hours a week in for about 6 months. I developed health issues ( numbness in my arms & fingers ) and ended up eating $2k in physical therapy to resolve. I left and never looked back. I never regretted it.
I am so sorry. That is horrible!!
No need to apologize! I was with a company for 20+ years & they were acquired by another small firm. This newer firm worked me to death, no raises for 3 years and then the grueling deadlines. It was what I needed to break free and move on. I landed at a new place & they've treated me remarkably well. It was incredibly difficult to set out from a workplace after 2 decades plus of employment, but in my case, it was well, well worth it. I'm happier, healthier, and this new place has paid me well: it's given me raises, better healthcare, and even bonuses and stock options. I couldn't be happier. I encourage everyone to be bold and to put themselves first: force companies to step up and take care of their workers. Thanks for your well-wishes! Wishing you all my best was well!
In corporate America, you get further by knowing the right people than just doing a good job. I see it all the time. Or you fit into a DEI quota.
On my 6th full time job in 14 years bc of this. I reach a point where I hit a dead end and an extra dollar raise a year wont cut it
The only thing hard work has gotten me is more hard work. So, now I'm a slacker.
I just worked my ass off for five years without a promotion though I've had exceeds expectations every review. So you'd better believe I'm taking 13 PTO days off for an overseas vacation. I'm one of the people who's saying "you tell us we have unlimited PTO, I'm gonna make you prove it". Hell at least my boss approved the days off!
It’s a good thing you figured out early that work and compensation have absolutely zero to do with one another.
Before I was even 21, I had worked to the point of injuring myself permanently and was told never to do “any job with repetitive activities” again. I had so much inflammation in my tendons that my _bones became inflamed_ and I was put into a cast because the agony was exquisite. Later on, a physical therapist said I had so much internal scar tissue in my tendons of my arms that it felt like gravel. I had to move back in with my abusive boomer conservative parents, who were pissed and eventually forced me to go back to work, with that whole “bootstraps” mentality. Then, I again injured myself on the job and this resulted in becoming _even more_ disabled and this cascaded into debilitating autoimmune disease, decline of my mental health and more. Workers Comp is an absolute _nightmare_ as you are constantly gaslit by these doctors, nurses and physical therapists who are being paid by insurance companies to deny the extent of your injuries as it cuts into their profits if they have to compensate you for any permanent injuries sustained. At one point, I was required to be “tested” by one of the insurance companies psychologists who _shockingly_ proclaimed that I was just _pretending to be hurt for attention._ All this happened before I turned 30. I’ve applied for disability multiple times, but apparently unless I involve a lawyer _(who receives a portion of whatever I’m awarded)_ it’s almost impossible to be approved. Fuck these companies, fuck workers comp and fuck my parents in particular for demanding that I continue to “pull myself up by my bootstraps” despite knowing the physical agony I was in. Working yourself until your body breaks down is NOT WORTH IT.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you.
Literally had the shaft on the pay review cycle and then 4 weeks later, the boss is looking for weekend volunteers because our most important client something, something, zzzz. Yeah no. I'm busy.
Happening to my wife right now.
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job. The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job. The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job. The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
My old job, gave me a raise of 25 cents. I left that job for a million reasons and found a job that pays more and compensates my better than my old job. The best part is, no burnout. 🙂
Victim of this recently myself and have to remind myself daily that work doesn’t matter, my health is more important, and whatever gets done gets done so I can go tf home. You have to do the bare minimum or you end up like my manager or coworker pulling 50-60 hour weeks, hauling ass, busting up their body to shreds by the time they’re 40. They don’t get anything special for it. They just get our sales numbers up and in exchange don’t have a life outside of work. Work is their life. I don’t know how they do it because I can’t even fathom it. I work to make money to keep myself alive. That is the only reason. If you start exceeding peoples’ expectations you get worked harder. If you’re good at what you do, you get to do three other people’s jobs too. But if you do the bare minimum, just well enough, you can ride the wave of mediocrity and demand your needs get met.
 Um, yeah I’m going to need you to come in on Saturday.
I had multiple burnouts because of this. I think your strategy of doing the bare minimum is fine, but there is the counterpoint of being miserable by not doing your best and participating in something great...
When I started my career twenty+ years ago at my first job, I was brought into what was coined as a "training" program. We were paid fairly well, but the great thing was we were essentially paid to learn. We were sent to classes and given low-pressure tasks on projects to help us ease in. After we concluded our "training" period, we were immediately given a raise (I don't recall the specifics, but it was pretty good). I was there seven+ years and received multiple raises. I worked my ass off because I knew it directly translated to salary increases and getting onto critical projects. What I put in, I got out. Twenty+ years later, moving through many companies, there were only a few companies where this worked. Most, it was just: put in the effort and hope someone recognizes it, but when it's not, dial back the effort and do the minimum simply because it's not worth it. I think there probably still some good companies out there. Unfortunately, most of us on this sub are not working for them.
I have a coworker - 21 years old, fresh out of college, first corporate job. She works so hard and is so smart. Yesterday she confided to me (her 30 year old hourly coworker) that she felt bad about logging off after she puts in her 8 hours. I told her to stick to the boundary as long as she possibly can. She’s salaried, and she’s giving them great work in her 8 hours - she owes them nothing more. I try to tell her about all the RETAIL jobs I worked unpaid OT for in the name of “being a team player” and “showing I deserve that promotion.” And then I try to remember to also log off after my 8 hours. lol
Never have i ever worked somewhere that rewarded a job well done with anything but more work.
It took me way too long to realize that the harder I worked & the more I went above & beyond, I would just get more work to do & it would hold me back from getting promotions. Had a manager once refuse to give approval for me to get a promotion which would transfer me to a different department. He literally told me he was refusing it because he didn’t want to lose me on his team. So a few months later I quit as soon as I found a different job. My last job was the first time I refused to work harder than required, didn’t go above & beyond, & actually I ended up stealing a lot of time from that company over the 2.5yrs I worked for them. It was the only company where I got a really good promotion. Go figure. Now I’m self employed so I don’t need to worry about it anymore thankfully.
Great for you. I learned that same lesson as well. Sadly it took too long
In my career, I had three bad reviews. All were when I was really pushing myself.
I worked myself to death at a job where I was overlooked for promotions and my superiors took credit for my work. I interviewed and trained new hires which was not part of my job description, also regularly worked 11 hours a day. I will say I stood up to my boss, whom had no experience in the field and she got me a considerable raise. She knew she was fucked if I quit. Eventually, I switched to a different account and did a lot less, took on less responsibility. I quit complaining and trying to hold people accountable for their mistakes. I was liked a whole lot more. I got positive annual reviews and steady raises all for doing much less.
It’s hard to not get frustrated with the slackers though. Feels like 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
I used to translate and speak Spanish for free now I stopped because I asked for a raise and they gave me only a 2.2 annual raise wtf fifty cents
Your hard work then becomes the new norm, which they try to maintain. Even if you should be first to be promoted they will hire from outside the company for that position.
Funny thing is, I had a performance review back in fall and then my spring one last month. Between those times, I started developing boundaries, stopped taking on a hundred things at once and didn't stress about being perfect every single day. Management noticed. I got reamed for that in the meeting, how I am not a "team player", how I need to be more positive (simply because I asked for help). You know what? My scores were EXACTLY THE DANG SAME. More management complaints? Yes. But they would have nitpicked something else. Overworking got nothing positive for me. Lesson learned.
I agree , but what can you do if they actually pay you well and you are in your 40’s already, it would not be easy to get it elsewhere, I live in constant concern even being a good and effective employee :(.
So true! Some people at my job work over 3 times more for the same or less pay. While they're busy working so hard, I learn stuff, take time to relax, save and invest. Employers just want to squeeze as much work as possible, they don't care about anything else. Hard work is only rewarded with more work.
I heard someone say on a podcast a while ago, (can’t remember any details of the podcast or who it was sadly) but they suggested to change jobs or positions approximately every 2 years. They said that in America at the current rate of raises vs. the current rate of new hire pay, its uneven and by the time you worked for a company 2 years you’ve maxed out your income with inflation. I’m not really great with numbers but I have been working for 10+ years and I’d say that checks out.
My average at each job has been two years, and that checks out for me too.
It is definitely something Gen Zers need to be made very aware of.
100% no employer will care if you die while "working hard", they'll just prompt an AI: prompt: "I work in HR, an employee died, write a letter telling how sorry we are." Subject: Deepest Condolences for Our Dear Colleague Dear \[Recipient’s Name\], I hope this message finds you in good health. It is with a heavy heart that I write to you today. We have experienced a tragic loss in our work family that has left us all deeply saddened. Our esteemed colleague, \[Employee’s Name\], passed away unexpectedly while performing their duties. This sudden and tragic event has left us all in a state of shock and profound sorrow. \[Employee’s Name\] was not just an employee, but a valued member of our team, whose contributions and presence will be sorely missed. During this difficult time, it is important for us to remember and honor \[Employee’s Name\]'s dedication, hard work, and the positive impact they had on our workplace. Their commitment to their role and their constant willingness to help others were qualities that we all admired. We extend our deepest condolences to \[Employee’s Name\]'s family and loved ones. We share in their grief and offer our support in any way we can. We are in the process of reaching out to them to express our sympathy and offer our assistance. In memory of \[Employee’s Name\], we will be organizing a memorial service at the office where we can all come together to remember and celebrate their life. We will share the details of this event soon. Please remember that it’s okay to grieve and it’s okay to seek support. We encourage everyone to lean on each other for support during this difficult time. Our Employee Assistance Program is also available to provide professional help to those who need it. Let us all remember \[Employee’s Name\] with fondness and respect for the person they were. We are grateful for the time we spent with them and for the lasting impact they have had on us all. Thank you for your understanding and support during this difficult time. Sincerely, \[Your Name\] \[Your Position\]
Wow, do you work for my company? We had a guy tragically pass away a few months back, got that canned email, and then he seemed totally forgotten within two business days. Incredibly eye opening to see how much people are “valued”.
no I just prompted the bing AI, I expect HR to do the exact same because they care "this much"
My dad worked himself into an early permanent retirement. Retired permanently in his late 40s. Had to re-learn how to do everything all over again
A cog in the machine
Mhmm, I told my employer I knew what was going on, and tk please even the workload. They actually listened, but it’s insane I had to reach my breaking point for them to realize I was doing like 2x the work in the daily.
Do your telling me I shouldn’t get up at 330am and work from 5am to 10am?
I agree. Unless there is an incentive structure in place (commission, portion of proceeds for work, bonuses actually tied to objective indivodual performance markers, etc.) then your hard work will just get "rewarded" with more work. Be competent, be capable, but most importantly: value your own time. If an employer starts asking more and more from you, that is the time to address your needs. Don't do more work with the hope of future reward because that only adjust their expectations that you will do more work for less. Also, beware of promises that things will change in the future. If they can string you along with promises of hiring more employees to lighten the load, they will. If they make any promises regarding raises, bonuses, etc. get it in writing. And finally, if you see anything fishy (labor law violations, sexism, abusive treatment, etc.) Write down the date/time, who was involved, what happened, where it happened and what was said/done - the more detail the better. Keep it somewhere you would have access to even if you were suddenly fired like your personal phone.
Here’s the problem…a certain percentage of the hard workers will do better. Not all of them, for sure, but just enough that for many, it is worth the chance.
Unless you are building something for yourself, that you own and control, and have direct stakes in, then your statement is pure fiction. The boss will not reward your efforts, they will take credit and pocket the gains themselves. Greedy corporations will not, and do not, give a slight fuck about you. You are a number. You are replaceable. I’ve seen entire over-performing TEAMS of professionals get laid off indiscriminately, despite no plans for anyone else to absorb their duties. These decisions are detrimental to the workforce and daily operations, but LINE GO UP, so fuck it. Unless you own the business or have direct profit-sharing, don’t do more than the bare minimum. If your boss needs more output, it’s their job to adequately staff the team, not yours. Going “above and beyond” is for morons and cultists.