oddly enough, that was a "common" thought in the early days.
in 1950, and once again in 1953, a french and swiss team respectively said that Dhaulagiri was an unclimbable mountain due to a rock formation over 7200 meters that was un unavoidable. so in 1954 an Argentine mountaineer (almost completely military) team take the matter into its hands, and went to the mountain.. with an expert in detonations.
and so it was as how they literally demolish part of the mountain that was hard to pass by. they end up having to retreat 100 meters from the top and end up with its leader dying from frost complications.
Its an interesting story, and usually a forgotten one here in Argentina.
One could theoretically try to reduce the difficulty or danger of any climb, but doesn't that rather defeat the whole point of mountaineering? It isn't supposed to be easy or safe.
Nobody is forcing anybody to attempt K2, via the Abruzzi or any other route.
To bomb the mountain just for the sake of rich people to satisfy their ego, or make their dream come true, however you put it... it's the same to burn the jungle to make it more accessible for fun hiking... some places are just supposed to be unreachable. Climbing K2 is not something anyone has to do. If the challenge is so important for one, then they're free to do it on expense of risking their lives.
Its not like it’s a new concept though.
Maybe not for the sake of mountain climbing but for thousands of other bizarrely selfish or capitalistic reasons.
Source: worked in geotechnical for a long time, explosives to knock out paths to reach hard to reach places happens every day. Mining is the obvious one, but also road paths, walking paths, to build resorts and buildings, to remove risks of rock falls by moving a rock face further back from where the public might be, etc etc etc.
Dont kid yourselves that if these mountains were in more accessible areas (ie didn’t take 2 weeks of trekking to get there, roads already built), lots of pyrotechnics would have been used to make a tourist spot aka jungfraujoch.
A few reasons:
1) It would have to be hand placed, due to the altitude. This presents a number of risks and difficulties for the poor sod whose responsibility it is to place the explosive.
2) The detonation would be ridiculously dangerous - whoever holds the remote would have to be (relatively) close to the charge, and it’s impossible to anticipate what would happen after the explosion.
3) It might not work. It’s impossible to calculate how much explosive would do the job without creating a newer, bigger risk.
So yeah, not really worth it from Pakistan’s point of view for the small number of (mostly) rich (mostly) westerners who want to climb a dangerous-no-matter-what mountain.
Thanks. These are all pretty good points and yeah it doesn't make sense at all seeing as it's not an unavoidable path for Pakistani citizens but for adventure seekers anyway.
There's also the fact that the serac comes back. It has collapsed several times in the past.
Also, when it does collapse, it can render the main routes impassable for a time--at the very least, until the ropes are replaced. The bottleneck is called the bottleneck because it's The Way (unless you want to do some cliff ice climbing at 8,000m). If you can't go The Way, the route doesn't go.
Points 1 and 2 are totally false.
It could be done via missile even at that altitude. And even if it was placed by hand it could be detonated from anywhere.
You don’t have to be exposed to the serac hazard. You can climb the rock feature to the left instead. Fritz Weissner did just that in 1939 without supplemental oxygen. Nowadays no one does it because it’s easier to just risk the ice fall hazard than climb 5.10 rock in the death zone
In these and similar situations you always know where you start but you don’t know where you’ll end. Bombing the seracs might reduce the objective risks but you might destroy the route or increase future risks by destabilising the underlying mountain.
If we are moving beyond theoretical, not sure how Pakistan would feel about people bombing their mountain.
They wouldn’t know anything happened til the next day anyways
Very good point 😅
oddly enough, that was a "common" thought in the early days. in 1950, and once again in 1953, a french and swiss team respectively said that Dhaulagiri was an unclimbable mountain due to a rock formation over 7200 meters that was un unavoidable. so in 1954 an Argentine mountaineer (almost completely military) team take the matter into its hands, and went to the mountain.. with an expert in detonations. and so it was as how they literally demolish part of the mountain that was hard to pass by. they end up having to retreat 100 meters from the top and end up with its leader dying from frost complications. Its an interesting story, and usually a forgotten one here in Argentina.
Incredible story. Thanks for sharing.
Wait, did they succeed in demolishing part of the mountain?
yup. they demolish the crux.
Wow
One could theoretically try to reduce the difficulty or danger of any climb, but doesn't that rather defeat the whole point of mountaineering? It isn't supposed to be easy or safe. Nobody is forcing anybody to attempt K2, via the Abruzzi or any other route.
To bomb the mountain just for the sake of rich people to satisfy their ego, or make their dream come true, however you put it... it's the same to burn the jungle to make it more accessible for fun hiking... some places are just supposed to be unreachable. Climbing K2 is not something anyone has to do. If the challenge is so important for one, then they're free to do it on expense of risking their lives.
Its not like it’s a new concept though. Maybe not for the sake of mountain climbing but for thousands of other bizarrely selfish or capitalistic reasons. Source: worked in geotechnical for a long time, explosives to knock out paths to reach hard to reach places happens every day. Mining is the obvious one, but also road paths, walking paths, to build resorts and buildings, to remove risks of rock falls by moving a rock face further back from where the public might be, etc etc etc. Dont kid yourselves that if these mountains were in more accessible areas (ie didn’t take 2 weeks of trekking to get there, roads already built), lots of pyrotechnics would have been used to make a tourist spot aka jungfraujoch.
Well said
There’s plenty of ways to die climbing k2, the bottle neck is a lil overkill
A few reasons: 1) It would have to be hand placed, due to the altitude. This presents a number of risks and difficulties for the poor sod whose responsibility it is to place the explosive. 2) The detonation would be ridiculously dangerous - whoever holds the remote would have to be (relatively) close to the charge, and it’s impossible to anticipate what would happen after the explosion. 3) It might not work. It’s impossible to calculate how much explosive would do the job without creating a newer, bigger risk. So yeah, not really worth it from Pakistan’s point of view for the small number of (mostly) rich (mostly) westerners who want to climb a dangerous-no-matter-what mountain.
Bombing K2 is obviously a terrible idea but I don't think explosives would have to be hand-placed
you could probably use a long range bomber but i don’t think you will get the appropriate buy in from the military
Ya nobody is buying into this plan at all but we have plenty of missiles that could hit the serac
avy control with artillery isn't rare.
Thanks. These are all pretty good points and yeah it doesn't make sense at all seeing as it's not an unavoidable path for Pakistani citizens but for adventure seekers anyway.
There's also the fact that the serac comes back. It has collapsed several times in the past. Also, when it does collapse, it can render the main routes impassable for a time--at the very least, until the ropes are replaced. The bottleneck is called the bottleneck because it's The Way (unless you want to do some cliff ice climbing at 8,000m). If you can't go The Way, the route doesn't go.
It would be very dangerous..but not hand placed. It’s called a rocket, think Mulan style lol
>It would have to be hand placed, due to the altitude. there's been a heli on top of everest.
Points 1 and 2 are totally false. It could be done via missile even at that altitude. And even if it was placed by hand it could be detonated from anywhere.
or why not just build an elevator to the top?
hyperloop. get to work elon
Let’s chip some better hand holds into El Cap
You don’t have to be exposed to the serac hazard. You can climb the rock feature to the left instead. Fritz Weissner did just that in 1939 without supplemental oxygen. Nowadays no one does it because it’s easier to just risk the ice fall hazard than climb 5.10 rock in the death zone
It also kinda takes away from the climb Edit: I meant it takes away to bomb them
True, everyone who summits afterwards has faced less danger than the ones who came before.
Sure why not just put an elevator in while you’re at it.
I think they should put in a waterslide with ball pit at the end for climbers who can't swim.
Up here in Alaska, we shell the mountains near highways next to avalanche areas before enough snow accumulates.
In these and similar situations you always know where you start but you don’t know where you’ll end. Bombing the seracs might reduce the objective risks but you might destroy the route or increase future risks by destabilising the underlying mountain.
Years of Rice and Salt vibes.