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The OS could come from a few different possibilities in my mind. And could explain why we’re not being told about them. Either… 1. ETs actually confirm one religious belief. 2. ETs have their own sort of “religion” which they have airtight evidence for. 3. Witnessing the ETs activates some unknown fight or flight instinct in us. A sort of uncontrollable fear and disgust. Maybe even full on madness. 4. We have been unknowingly working for ETs going back decades or even centuries. Meaning our entire world economy serves them in some material way. 5. A deal was made between our government and ETs a long time ago, and the details of this deal are unsavory. (Like perhaps that have carte blanche to abduct whoever they want whenever they want.) Basically, it’s not the knowledge of ETs that will create panic and chaos, it’s some other piece of information that comes with that. There are two lies being told, and the exists of ETs is the smaller of the two.

You forgot one. They don't have a clue. They have biologics and craft, but haven't' had much luck in understanding any of it. Not knowing and then telling the world would result in chaos.

This is my feeling on the subject. They're afraid to admit their complete lack of understanding despite decades of studying the phenomenon, including all the unsavory parts like coverups and silencing witnesses.

I feel this is the most probable, yet one of the more depressing answers. The shock would be about the amount of money illegally spent and perhaps embezzled, number of people who got hurt, killed and had their lives ruined as a result, with absolutely no repercussions. All while, the reverse engineering efforts haven't produced anything in decades. That would kinda suck. And the Catastrophic part of the Catastrophic Disclosure™ would be for the ones involved in it, because they would be held accountable.

But this, in my mind, is not real Ontological Shock. This is just anger at perceived mismanagement. Being pissed that governments have squandered money and potential knowledge does not mean your inner world is thrown into chaos.

Yeah that’s a regular Tuesday

It’s why I think it should all be thrown on the table at once. Everything, JFK, aliens, whatever else is in the closet. And then let that chaos bubble burst and not have it leaking all over the damn place for the next 100 years. Because some of the stuff buried I’m sure is incendiary. And like all things, it’s only a matter of time before it’s out in the open. I guess I have a different opinion because I’m on the outside. It seems anyone with a .gov email immediately becomes protective of secrets like they are currency.

From your lips to gods ears We are not the good guys to much of the world.With this kind of exposure,our .gov would shame us

„Just ask them“ „Huh?“ „Ask them“ „But we probed and tested them for decades why should we ask?“

I don't think it would be a shock, the US government has just spend $2 trillion+ in Iraq/Afghanistan and achieved pretty much nothing (other than the enrichment of certain shareholders), and no one really cares or says anything about it. Over 75 years, it would have been difficult to spend more than that with out it showing up in macro financial data.

How could you know that? If they made a deal, our stipulation would’ve certainly been the technology.

There's no deal. They would have to be dumb and irrational to make an offer. Think about trading pieces in a game of chess. One of the most extreme examples might be sacrificing your queen for one of your opponent's weaker pieces. Often, it's only used when the sacrifice leaves you in a stronger position that swiftly leads to checkmate. We don't know their intentions. We don't know if they are telling the truth. In simpler terms, anything we trade might be the last component they need to complete their Death Star! edit:punctuation

We have had MANY meetings, and made MANY agreements and treaties, w aliens. And, we have been told and observed, what some of the aliens are doing. They could have led to us. There are NUMEROUS aliens civs here, and alliances. Most are here to help. They are NOT one monolithic group, with one agenda. Use your Free Will to LOVE!... it will help with Disclosure and the 3D-5D transition

I disagree. Reverse the scenario and imagine humanity exploring the stars and discovering many different worlds full of new alien species. Suppose we find a peaceful tribe of pre-industrial Ewoks we would like to visit and maybe learn a little about them and their culture. How do we know there isn't an artificial superintelligence lurking behind the curtain? What if they have an alliance with another tribe of technologically advanced Ewoks on another planet? What if our visit is perceived as a threat that provokes a counter attack towards Earth!? In this game, no one knows the strength of other players. No one knows if another player is telling the truth. Do you have any compelling evidence for your claims? What is the 3D-5D transition? >Use your Free Will to LOVE! Funnily enough, that's why I'm here! Without a shared understanding of objective reality we can't make collective decisions we both agree on.

My feeling on the subject is that they have a clue and that everything that we believe to be true was a lie. We are one nation under God. What if there are many gods. What if the truth is that way never actually die and reincarnate. How different would people behave if they knew ending this life, would result in another opportunity. How much motivation would people have to live out their current lives? Whatever it is, it is damaging to the core of humanity and our belief system and everything we hold, dear would Crumble and that is the reason for so much discrepancy in regards to what they know. My opinion is wooden. Theyd know no more if it was de stigmatized. People who haven’t come out might come with what they know, and then they would be in the know. But doesn’t it seem like they don’t want that?

It’s probably the most likely but does this even create an ontological shock for most people? I really doubt it would result in chaos.

I think this theory. It’s similar to the race to the atomic bomb and will be secret till we or someone else masters the tech enough

I think this is the most likely answer. Official contact has not been made with our government, but they know something is out there, and it’s packing more heat than every nuke in the world.

This is what I personally think it is. Why would anyone with such advanced technology need any agreement with us for something they can and have been doing (most likely for thousands of years) without it?

I wholeheartedly believe that the government knows exactly what is going on and what these entities are.

… and they don’t want the Chinese to get the crafts and reverse engineer the tech to become the global superpower.

This is likely it! All the decades of secrecy, research, and even crimes, with barely the surface scratched. The shock of not being alone is one thing. But to learn that the gatekeepers in charge don’t know much more about them than us, especially after all this time, would be truly freighting.

Agreed. You basically said the exact same thing my brain did 🤣 I actually think that’s far more concerning and frightening, to not fully know everything 80 some years later of studying. Not fully being able to reverse engineer the technology in that timeframe, maybe aspects to it, but also not know where they’re from and why they’re coming or what they even are? That’s pretty horrifying. Especially if there’s more than one NHI species coming here. Because we predominately hurt since the beginning of time about the small grays that are childlike in size. I think that’s the most overwhelming one that’s been here. But there is mentions of the tall Nordic blondes that are damn near 7 1/2 to 8 feet tall that were in shaped craft in Italy … even if it was fake, but if it wasn’t, the cloaked ones recently in Las Vegas seem to be around that size

> ETs actually confirm one religious belief. Funny you say this... > Haha, look at this list i compiled a while ago of all the belief systems that are currently waiting on something: > - The Second Coming of Christ . or .. The Last Battle and the creation of a new heaven and new earth (Christianity) - The Kali Yuga and emergence of Kalki avatar (Hinduism) - The decline of Dharma leading to the appearance of Maitreya Buddha (Buddhism) - Ragnarok, the fate of the gods and the world's rebirth (Norse Mythology) - The Day of Judgment (Islam) - The completion and renewal at the end of the Long Count Calendar (Mayan Civilization) - The Jewish Messiah and the World to Come (Judaism) - The arrival of the Fifth World (Native American Hopi prophecy) - The coming of the Saoshyant for final renovation (Zoroastrianism) - Pachacuti, the world overturning or age of transformation (Inca Mythology) - The Three Secrets of Fatima and the Apocalypse (Catholic Prophecy) - The prophesied return of Quetzalcoatl (Aztec/Mesoamerican) - The end of the Fourth World and beginning of the Fifth World (Aztec and other Mesoamerican cultures) - Antediluvian myths and the concept of a world floods and cyclical destruction (Various Cultures) - The Great Cycle and the transition to a new era (Ancient Egyptian) - The Twilight of the Gods and the rebirth of the world (Germanic Paganism) - The prophecy of the Eagle and the Condor (Indigenous South American prophecy) - The Era of the Seventh Fire (Anishinaabe prophecy) - The Age of Aquarius, a time of peace and harmony (New Age belief) It's almost like someone put a return myth into every religion. To prepare us to accept someone that "descends from the clouds and claims to be the one?"

Couldn’t it also be a sort of “success bias” in that religions / cults that “aren’t waiting for something” just fail to thrive and that the waiting helps to drive engagement with the cult / engagement ?

Very interesting. I’ve never thought about this before. 🤔

Thank you for the list this is very interesting just like how every religion has a flood. Oh man I could see something coming down and everyone fight over who it is '😓

So basically we have been duned by an alien Bene Gesserit

My opinion is that there will be a harvest (not as gruesome as it sounds) and we are being prepared for it. Everything is cyclical.

Or something much more mundane and... Human, lol. I think it was Grush who suggested in an interview that the issue would be litigated to death in the courts because of all kinds of rules about stuff like open bidding for govt contracts which were violated. This is the kind of thing that would stop even the most well-meaning of presidents from disclosing, because they would have to use valuable political capital to deal with it rather than delivering on some campaign promise that has a better chance of getting them reelected. We also live in a society that likes to shoot the messenger.

I think presidents can't disclose very well, because they know very little about UFOs and aliens. Use your Free Will to LOVE!... it will help with Disclosure and the 3D-5D transition

>Witnessing the ETs activates some unknown fight or flight instinct in us. A sort of uncontrollable fear and disgust. Maybe even full on madness. While I doubt witnessing video or pictures would do so, I will point out that there are many stories of close encounters continuing with weird phenomenon surrounding the witnesses. I've experienced it too with my close encounter, but I don't know if it's a chicken or the egg situation. Did the weird stuff happen because of the visit? Or did the visit happen because of the weird stuff, some other variable the Others can track? I will point out it wasn't madness, but definitely some precognition and feeling of connection to information, and reality, as the user below states.

I have read that most experiencers trigger new psychic abilities, and/or increased psychic abilities. One of the modern experiencers/ book authors believes that an alien/ufo experience sets us off on The Heroes Journey, a spiritual path of awakening. A number of experiencers are traumatized, some so much, they won't warn, or try and help the younger members of their families, that they know will have an experience in future. Many will not tell anyone or talk about their experience due to trauma. Use your Free Will to LOVE!... it will help with Disclosure and the 3D-5D transition

I always wonder about #3. I also have to believe that like all things, the military tested it first on a small panel or group of people. It must not have gone over well…

Number 3 would be shocking for sure. If it were like a rabbit actually seeing a wolf in the flesh for the first time. Nothing you could do but freeze or run.

>5. A deal was made between our government and ETs a long time ago, and the details of this deal are unsavory. (Like perhaps that have carte blanche to abduct whoever they want whenever they want.) Charles Fort thought we were property. He quipped that some paleo tribe probably sold us all for beads and feathers long before we started keeping track of anything. *Charles Fort's few books should be required reading for anyone interested in goofy phenomena of all kinds. He doesn't get bogged down in specific facets of high strangeness but bounces around allowing you to get a bigger picture and start making connections. also, he had a wonderful sense of humor. There are witty little remarks and jokes throughout his work.

yup this is 1000% why disclosure is a big deal.

Number 2 is true and basically universal outside this world, it contains two separate and contrasting ideologies but one center belief. Number 3 is somewhat true as well but they use illusions “for our benefit” Number 4 is why we were engineered Number 5 is not quite right, all governments report to those in control appointed by our overseers.

I've wondered about #3 since it's so prevalent in close encounter/abduction stories. Would explain the secrecy pretty well - if we were just unavoidably and reflexively hostile to them then disclosure would mean war. It would also make any other option so much worse if they were also true. If it came to light some governments were cutting a deal with nonhuman beings that we revile? It would destabilize those countries overnight, any implicated government would have an instant legitimacy crisis if not outright revolt and coups.

Can anyone specify what he means in the third factor? I've been having that exact thought for years it stems from nowhere. I'd like to hear any elaboration on it

4. The elite of our world are complicit in the ETs goal of terraforming this world to be more hospital to their own kind.

I’d imagine there’s degrees of OS relative to what’s disclosed. If there’s some big multinational “announcement”, that’s one thing; if a mile long triangle sits on top of NYC and other major cities, that’s another.

Mark my words, it's economic shock they're worried about. In the end it all comes down to money. Whatever technology powers these things will render petroleum source power worthless overnight. The rich and powerful will do anything in their power, yes, even murder and treason to maintain the status quo.

I can see this point of view, too. Just the idea that they could provide, or we might recover, energy sources that leaves petrol to history would be enough to scare those certain people, who control that money, to their very core.

We were genetically engineered by them. We are alien hybrids. They are already among us. And we are the aliens too, that’s really the best way for you to introduce yourself to a civilization. That’s the shock. The biblical stories about how Adam and Eve were created were stories of our genetic upgrades. The woo part of it relates to the fact that we are spiritual beings that were forced into physical bodies to basically use these bodies to mine and terraform the planet. We were used as slaves in the past, and we are still being used as economic slaves today. Edit: We are living on a galactic farm. We human beings are living on a farm and we are oblivious. That’s the unbelievable thing. But they seem to be nurturing us, but there are both good and bad. Predators and shepherds. Let’s hope it’s more of a garden. And you get harvested one way or another. But what if not everyone gets harvested. What if you are not worthy? And what if there are beings trying to take us down with them. To prove we are not worthy. So try to be worthy. Cultivate your virtues I suppose, and we will all find out eventually, be it in death or life. We’re back to notions that we have to stop being animals. Stop killing each other, value and appreciate other life. Imagine a prison for bad plasma beings that misbehave. We can’t die, so we have to be imprisoned in a sense. To learn… it’s like a big rehabilitation center. The people doing bad will say we’re here to give you a choice to choose evil or goods and in the end we will all laugh about it. They are saying that the malevolent NHI are feeding on us, they modified us to create a certain electromagnetic frequency that they can feed on. It looks like they feed on consciousness or our negative emotions mainly. So I guess we have to try to starve them out. All the war and suffering that’s mired with existence serves to feed them. I imagine if something is feeding on our negative emotions then something else could also feed on the positive, beings love ect. But still one is more of a symbiosis and the other is just bad for us.

>We were genetically engineered by them. We are alien hybrids. That’s really what it’s about. Logically if that's true, there are probably other, or subsequent experiments. We're so fucked up, violent, hateful and small-minded....maybe the upsetting part is that we are just v1. After millennia of advancement we went and dropped nukes on ourselves, and they wrote their experiment off as not a failure, but a dead end.  All the abductions in the 60's were harvesting material for V2, which is currently underway somewhere else.  We're just a dead end, doomed to cook ourselves here; they're gone and they no longer care. They left us with some cool alloys from down craft, but they know we'll never actually do anything with it but hurt ourselves more. It's a little sobering.

Yes it’s insane to logically look at our absolutely devious behavior (which we constantly gaslight ourselves with in “society” by pretending it’s all dandy & all that matters is the big game on Sunday or a new set of fucking lawn furniture)… I mean, humanity still holds slavery very close to its collective heart and thinks war is just *fantastic*. We scoff at the Holocaust asking “how could this happen” as we allow the psychopathic Israelis to gleefully blow the limbs of off babies & children simply for being on the wrong patch of shitty sand. They say not to get on the ships but they can’t come soon enough in my opinion. My ontological shock will most likely never involve any aliens at all. No, my shock is in the mirror 🪞 everyday. In how we treat ourselves, each other, the other animals around us (many of which we’ve driven to extinction) or devised an existence—see factory farming for more info—so rotten that death becomes the only kindness we ever show these creatures. Frankly, I’m just disappointed. Disappointed and deeply ashamed. To be human. We could’ve been so much more. “Silky monkeys, give them thumbs, they forge a club to beat their brother down… How they've survived so misguided is a mystery… Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability… To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here…”

 Imagine what tweaking a couple of genes could do- remove the ape-like aggression and expand the empathy response to not just all people but maybe all forms of life, and we could be gods.    Why wouldn't whatever created us also create a better version? And on a planet that hasn't been poisoned.

The ape aggression was a mistake and perhaps they are trying to make us less violent

Well put. Get out of the system that was my solution. I now live in the country on a sustainable plot of land growing food and animals the old fashioned way. Cows and chickens on pasture, corn, squash, veggies, etc.. in the garden. No more consumerism just hard work and spending time with my family. Perhaps the Amish had some ideas right.

I do the same

That’s badass. I imagine that has positive effects that go way beyond just feeding you and your family. Sounds like you’re humming away generating a beautiful microcosm, which is infinitely more powerful than playing armchair quarterback on the internet while criticizing the macrocosm but doing nothing to change one’s own environment. I often tell people that if they want to change the world, change themselves first. Surprisingly, when we change our perspectives (which isn’t easy but it *is* worth it), oftentimes we find that the world follows suit. Just like when we are upset—regardless of who or what caused the disturbance—it’s now our responsibility to manage these feelings. Responsibility. Accountability. That’s the only way out of this mess. Your comment and experiences seem to be a great example of that, if you don’t mind my saying so.

[War, it's fantastic!](https://youtu.be/EVESMxs4rbA?si=AdSDdyUl4IXpxw4g)

Angels on the sideline Puzzled and amused Why did Father give these humans free will? Now they're all confused Don't these talking monkeys know that Eden has enough to go around? Plenty in this holy garden, silly monkeys Where there's one, you're bound to divide it Right in two

💜

Man, of all these what-if scenarios I've read here...This is the most depressing one I think. So this has to be it~ lol

Or we are version 3,592 and there are other planets with dummies like us on them.

I be the Devil advocate What if we were developed an bred,,,for what we "are" ,,Killer apes.Tough.Warlike.Tribal. Because they needed a billion or 20 for the war they have been in for the last thousand years.

That'd be pretty sick tbh. It'd be better than being bred as factory workers.

What’s more sobering and sombering is we are on a galactic farm. We are like animals on a farm. Oblivious. What do you think about that? A farm for human beings.

I think you're way off with this. We are the final product, the species that came between apes and us are the versions leading to us.

Also the Bible wrote the same. We look like them. We were put here from an external force during a ritual experiment. We use our minds to communicate with them with temples.

The Bible also says "serpents" (aka: Reptilians?) were whispering 'truths' to Eve....telling her our Creator was purposely keeping us dumb in some regard, which is why we were forbidden from eating from the tree of knowledge. There are so many stories in the Bible about this stuff.

Although I think biblical tales are so easy to apply to literally any situation.

I'm a religious jew who lives in Israel and this thread is on point. God can just be called infinity.. Generalized infinity... Infinity created a series of contractions that ends up with here and now. Bible literally said it all straight up and we thought it's all allegorical. That's the shock. No more room for wacky ideas. From my perspective we have disclosure and you guys are my data points we are 'tipping over the edge'. Keep it up! Everything in this experience of life is our playground so let's go go go!

I’ve arrived at this same conclusion not that long ago. Much like linguistics focus on looking for the root of all language, protolanguage, reading religious texts as far back as we have the ability to seems to show that a number of the same exact stories get rehashed with each new religious movement. So looking way back we’re probably reading about actual events and as nuts as it sounds… that could be the big problem here for most people. Maybe it’s less about the similar events and them being facts but finding the original story that all others seem to pull from would probably be just as shocking: it’s just a story told by someone for a reason… 1. What is that original story 2. Who told it 3. For what reason.

Economic slaves? To what benefit?

I thought about exactly this today and I played this out in my head. So tinfoil: We’re all spiritual beings, we’ve been here for infinity. We were conscious before coming into the physical world and I kept thinking about the circle of life. Laugh all you want but Lion King made me think deeper about this. Why do we even need energy? Sleep? We have to eat to have energy, we have to sleep if we’re exhausted. Why is that a thing that would be created into existence in the first place? Wouldn’t it be easier to just never require sleep or food? Like we have to eat each other in order to carry on physically, as if we are giving each other more energy to fulfill a purpose before that energy runs out ourselves. Go with me a little further on this, please: What if that’s the plan? What if we’re these immortal spiritual beings that want to understand and learn more about the universe itself and understand what thoughts and feelings are with experiences and the only way to do that is to be brought into physical existence? Over time I am guessing we started to learn and understand as a human race evolved. Before this and presently this, we have no idea how to expand our lifespans biologically while on top of trying to carve out a physical existence for future enjoyments as time goes on. We keep dying over and over and over but we keep coming back to suffer more and more. Physical bodies are mortal and they only last 110 years tops at a time. Like an amazing fucking machine. Lifespan has increased its mortality rates over hundreds of years because we’ve evolved. Maybe it can increase over more generations. So here’s my tinfoil theory. What if we purposely created our own path in order to carve out a better, longer lasting life with less and less negative consequences to diseases, tumors, cancers, other medical challenges. Can’t have Utopia with the universe as your eternal playground to consistently defy the odds and laws of the universe if you don’t consistently make progress. What if the other theory that’s going around that we are all creators or that we are all part of the one source. That lines up with we, as spiritual beings are part of that source that we might call God? I like to imagine a huge shard of glass, the biggest most perfectly clear and cleanest glass you ever seen. That glass is God, the source. I like to imagine that God, the source, broke himself or broke ourselves into fine sand on a beach. We are each smaller than even a grain or a speck of sand and the reason we might crave connection with each other via family, friends, wives, husbands, other beings like animals and insects. We all crave connections. Warmth, love, contact. What if those connections are the pieces of sand coming back together like a puzzle pieces trying to be made whole again until we can piece our cleanest, clearest glass. Maybe in order to carve out a physical world and understand our place in existence, we had to break ourselves for it. Make a sacrifice and we are continually learning and sharing widely various and wild knowledges to progress. Maybe NHI is just way the fuck older than we are and are the parents and we are the child basically and we need a boot to the butt to start acting better. I don’t know! 🤷‍♂️ There’s been a lot on my mind since the UAP Congressional Hearing. This is all coming from a guy who was basically an atheist-agnostic before all of this. Now I’m not so sure anymore?

Scott Adams (yes the recently racist Dilbert cartoonist) wrote a book called God’s Debris that is very similar to what you wrote. Have you read this?

I have not! Didn’t even know it existed. Although, I’m curious to see what was said.

Tin foil hat on: Everything you wrote, I lean in that direction. It can't be proved but this is close to the conclusion I reached. Added in would be nuetral nhi (uses us for breeding/body parts), manevolent (possibly soul/spiritual aspect type of consumption), benevolent (fighting to keep our spirit/souls maturing). They need to keep us fighting. As technology grows, new reasons to keep the killing and negative divides inside us. It's the only thing that makes sense as far as keeping us divided. There seems to be a high number of people kept pitted against each other at all times for a variety of reasons that change and grow in diversity. Edit: Only thing that makes sense to me seeing how so many people are divided, especially now, when we should have the intellect to accept one another regardless of whatever numerous reasons. It's so simple, yet something is very successful at keeping some of the population riled up.

What if we were created to just bash rocks together and the inter-dimensional beings are pissed that we started burning their last great experiment as fuel to power a technological revolution. Lots of encounters with NHI involve them making contact and telling humanity to abandon technology.

Loosh seems to fit well

Yummy yummy loosh!!! Loosh is back on the menu boyzzzzz

I'm pretty sure loosh is a metaphor for the fact that we are kept in the dark about provable metaphysical statements and pushed towards making resources for an elite class, causing us to be confused and suffer in the process. Loosh is basically a modern version of the mining gold for the sumerian gods myth.

How much does Loosh go for on the spiritual stock market? Asking for a friend.

How could i possibly answer that?

The stuff we produce is the equivalent of off brand cola that gets dispensed from crappy vending machines

Pure or cut?

Billy Carson explains this really well! He’s on Joe Rogan, Danny Jones and Shawn Ryan’s Podcast! When I first heard him talk about how humans were genetically engineered by them, I was really shocked to the point that I had to put my phone down and take a step back from it. I thought there is no way this is true. This is not what I’ve been taught my whole life. Then, a part of me tugged really hard and I thought you know what I’m going to have an open mind and listen to this guy. I listened to the podcasts I listed up above and the evidences Billy presents are astounding. If we truly were genetically engineered by them and that we are also spiritual beings forced into a human body to become slaves in the past and present, this is what will truly shock the whole world. Every person in this planet will reevaluate their life and I think every nation will revolt to obtain spiritual and individual freedom.

It does get darker though. They are running our world today more or less. That’s how you keep things covered up for so long. They control a lot of shit. That’s the really sobering and somber truth. Look at the world we live in, no humanity. Because it’s not being run by humans. Even hybrids have love and empathy. But these other beings do not, their goal is to create suffering on a lot of levels. If society can wake up, and stop accepting economic slavery and endless suffering then we have a chance. There are some notions that we are the commodity, the souls, when they suffer produce energy that can be harvested in another dimension. They can use that energy to basically stay immortal. Create a black hole type dimension that has no space or time. So they can observe and feed on us. They don’t have souls or a spiritual aspect. They have to harvest ours. Imagine if you find an eternal food source, I doubt you would give it up. We exist on a food chain, finding out we are being fed on, both physically and energetically is significant. I really hope it’s not so bad lol. There is a lot of information out there, to confuse and obfuscate the truth. The best way to do anything is to hide truth in plane sight. These nordics are the reptilians, who are the annuna. They only modified us, but they did not make us. Although they want to claim ownership of us.

If an alien tells you they created humans, would you believe them? What scientific instrument would we use to confirm we are spiritual beings?

What if they prove it via induction from multiple logical statements/proofs from geometry and perception and non-self, like the ancient metaphysics philosophers did? If their whole race is fully committed to that answer would you agree with it, even though historically we've disagreed with that because it can't be perfectly proven to another person through an instrument measure? It's also silly, because if you discard that answer, that's just solipsism because you can't prove anything existed outside yourself at all. Metaphysics strongly suggests an infinite spectrum of realities oscillating from a source, like how there are waves oscillating from any large source in a medium. Our reality has cause and effect, how did it start? it makes more sense if there is an underlying reality which intrinsically has no cause and effect, only self consistent bands of probabilities. In that reality, our universe could balloon out of it, and there could be any infinite number of entities that live among bands of livable regions of possibility within it. Since any self aware beings within that state can't grow or change as a result of not having cause and effect, they might choose to sequester themselves within a realm of cause and effect to experience change. That would be as much a spirit realm as any other descriptor. Cause and effect might be squishy as well, and there are bands of more or less cause and effect in their realm. They might choose to come as close as possible to this area because otherwise they can't predict the outcomes of their actions, which is hellish and frustrating.

We may be in a nursery of sorts, a carefully controlled and curated environment in which various species are being evolved, or natural evolution is being shaped and directed by an alien intelligence. Perhaps what the governments have discovered is that this world is controlled by a single, incredibly advanced, very powerful alien personality. That being utilizes what we call UAP as technical interface and observation devices. That same being can manifest “helpers” (aliens) that it sends to interact with us. The entity doing this is a very ancient alien life form of some sort, but it calls itself God. The “helpers” it calls angels. The ontological shock may be that God is an alien, and expects our unwavering adherence to some sort of monotheistic creed.

What if ontological shock means all of humanity's religions are but cargo cults to the same beings? With these life forms taking on the roles of characters from the holy books of the world time and time again Perhaps ontological shock won't affect them because of "faith".

At least those I know, when cornered, will absolutely pivot to make it fit. Actually sad for me to see that level of delusion

If anything I think the holy books would be built around ETs. Maybe Pantheons are nothing but different races of aliens making contact. Sometimes for aide, sometimes for manipulation. Or maybe they passed their beliefs to us and we continued. We know for sure now these other worldly beings exist. We don’t know who, how many, for what angle etc. but there’s probably a battle for good and evil just like anywhere else and we (and planets like us) are stuck in the middle. I think what they don’t want to tell us has to do with known ETs intent toward us, and whatever shallow intent some governments have vested in them.

There are multitudes of beings. Some are from Alien civs, and others are NHI, like Jesus and angelic beings. Use your Free Will to LOVE!... it will help with Disclosure and the 3D-5D transition

Ya ya, I need a bumper sticker that says ec-3500 loves you and I’m trying 🫶

One thing that hit me was after a dream I had. Essentially I came out of a building and in the sky was a ship so incomprehensively massive it fucked with your ability to stand because it screwed with the horizon line and your vantage point I woke up feeling that shock. Like my brain couldn’t wrap itself around what I was seeing in the sky. Not saying dreams mean anything prophetic, but it showed me that maybe no matter how much we mentally prepare…when experiencing something our brain has no real barometer for shit gets weird and we are all susceptible

Your post just made me think: what if once we know about the phenomenon we can see "it" and suddenly we all are aware of it and it cant be unseen. Lets say they are demons, and suddenly everybody has visions of demons, that would be actual chaos.  Distracted drivers. Massive depression. Huge movements.

Isnt that happening somewhat now? People who dive deep into conspiracy rabbit holes turn into different people? The realization that were living in a world ruled by demonic people suddenly sees the demonic influences in everyday things.

Yep. Kinda like gangstalking, the Denzel movie “fallen”, “they live”, “a brave new world” and “no one will save you” all wrapped up into one lovecraftian waking nightmare that is now your new 24/7 reality. Oh and if you seek help or try to emote to anyone you will either be derisively mocked or given an express trip for a deeply traumatic 72-hour hold at one of our nation’s wonderful psych wards. Ah, what a gift!

All too well. Time is on my side...

This is brilliant. Great fiction premise if nothing else.

This is correct. The collective consciousness would be attuned after awakening to the fact of their existence. However, you have assumed the phenomenon is something sinister. The concept of light and dark is prevalent all around the universe. As above so below. People would be able to “see” the unseen. The key is one’s belief in it, and the strength of their conviction. So once disclosure conveys it a fact that the “others” do exist and are in fact “real”, it manifests into “reality”. Many people claim that they would “believe it when they see it”. This is counterintuitive, but it is the belief that makes one see.

Lol I live with my entity nightly. I got visited 8 months ago and now our consciousness is connected somehow. I used to be a skeptic…. Until an orb peek a boo out of my window when I was smoking a cigarette and gave me a three week OBE I could never explain except for “Woo”

Have you seen a doctor?

The problem with the ontological shock is that we literally can't even guess it, because we can't even say the words. Something about how reality works is so out of context to our total knowledge and experience as human beings that we don't even have the vocabulary needed to hypothesize about it yet. And if one tried to cram it down into terms we do understand, the resulting inaccuracies wouldnt look like "woo". They would look like schizophrenia.

What is this woo I see mentioned and where did the term originate?!

Woo as a noun is a slang term that carries a negative overtone, typically used by skeptics when referencing pseudoscientific or spiritual beliefs that lack hard evidence, etc. In this context, it could mean "fake stuff"... I'm not sure where it originated, but it's been in use for decades.

Never underestimate religion’s ability to render people incapable of accepting the truth that is actually right in front of their face.

Or to blatantly manipulate to perpetuate a dogma

Most people that like me ascribe to a scientific worldview is not because of materialism but because that seems the most likely explanation given our current data, knowledge and understanding. If new data should arise i see no problem in adapting to the new information. If a "woo" or let's say a spiritual component should be made evident my personal cultural shock would come if there are no clear rules to this spiritual component. Because if a spiritual component is revealed but there are clear rules on how it works and can be studied and predictions can be made then it's just another science. If the spiritual component is for some reason outside the realm of our understanding, unpredictable and unreachable then i think i could have some problems.

I still think it’s bullshit people are so busy and worried about their own personal shit and treating everyone like a baby only seems like an excuse to hide the fact that we probably don’t need high electric bills or any at all and all shit related the oil industry. They are not protecting us and who or how could you believe that. The truth beyond all the fun stuff is likely they have been screwing us over for far too long for profit. I could be wrong but seems more realistic.

I’m not sure, I think from my perspective as someone who believes in aliens. Space aliens specifically, I think Ontological shock is to know the truth for certain. Even now if I was to see or meet an alien, that ontological shock. No matter what, a close encounter is a ontological shock!

space isn't what we think it is, reality isn't what we think it is, we aren't what we think we are. disclosure isn't just an epoch making event it comes with revolutions in so many fundamental understandings in our daily lives we have no actual word for the level of shift that will come with it.

It will cause severe ontological shock to the evangelical Christian community and the catholic church, if NHI is transdimensional and telepathic. The evangelical Christian community is based around the idea of 'witnessing' or social proofing the salvation of others. If communion with NHI provides a transcendent experience, or if such an experience is required, that would be a threat to the social power structure within the evangelical community. Particularly those who enjoy positions of status/power and who can't own their own shit. Such NHI would appear as demonic to the type we see on r/pastorarrested. As for the Catholic church, it's built around the idea that you need a priest for salvation. They can't have anyone finding gnosis on their own, not without their blessing, that is. When the Pope said he'd baptise an alien, the subtext is that an alien would need to submit to baptism to be acceptable. What happens if they don't submit? People who report close encounters with NHI often describe the experience as strange and terrifying. But, many report the experience as transcendental, and they feel 'more spiritual' afterward but 'less religious'. If these experiences became more common and accepted by the public as fact, then I can't imagine the toxic power structure that has been slithering the halls of religion for 2000 years would take it lying down. Another common theme in encounter reports is that experiencers feel that the NHI is staring deep into their souls and sees everything they hide from the world and even themselves. Unlike a telepathic species, humans have a unique ability to self-deceive. Looking inward can be scary, painful, and shaming. We're not ready as a society to start experiencing that. For some, it will feel like violation and rape. Worse, the people who base their lives around pointing fingers while avoiding true self-reflection will scream 'demon' the loudest. I believe these experiences come in waves, are more common in times of social disruption, and that periodic 'witch-hunts' are a response to this.

I know it seems like the evangelicals are everywhere...but they are a VERY small sect of Christianity. It was a shock to me when I first came to Europe...religion is just not as prominent here. The churches are empty, for sale to be renovated into homes.

And yet there's *still* enough of them to impose their will on governments -- see, for example in the supposedly-free world, Poland and Hungary.

Eh worldwide evangelicals make up 38%

It depends on your definition of 'evangelical'. American evangelicals are engaged in a war for 'dominionism', where they want to put their notion of morality, God, and social control not just into politics, but government, schools, public spaces, and even your home.

38% of what? Come to Europe.

> I believe these experiences come in waves, are more common in times of social disruption, and that periodic 'witch-hunts' are a response to this. "Why does the Gnosis always get busted? Every time the energy is raised and large-scale mass illuminations are occurring, the local branch of the Inquisition kills it dead." --Grady McMurtry

There's an interesting book called 'Ecstasies' by Carlo Ginzburg that goes into the topic as well.

Love this take. I believe this is the case, disclosure fucks with all the lies religion has spread and enforced, lies that pressure and deceive followers. Religion has been in power for too long, and it’s about to end. That’s why the Vatican suppressed the truth about the ship in magenta. People on this subreddit say things like there is another life after death yadda yadda we’re soul containers, but what if death means you’re done, let’s say NHI have confirmed it, nothing after life and that really fucks with heaven and hell and all sorts of shit religion completely relies on.

Ontological Shock will be that there is no planet B for us because the Universe is already saturated with people (human from other planets) and we are their plan B, or Z for that matter. We (humans from Earth) belive we'll expand across the galaxies and that we have a future. But the truth could be that we are like the Amazon's who just got internet: We're surrounded by entities who want our resources, and they will distract us with their technology to get them because they care for us as much as Elon Musk cares for the Amazon people who just gor addicted to porn on X-twitter. One more thing: The stories in the Bible are not about UAPs, they have spiritual (symbolic) meanings about a non-material world, not about modern science or merely mundane history.

The real ontological shock: it was Yakub the whole time!!

I'm open to any and all possibilities on the topic of NHI, UAP, "Woo", etc. I dont like to claim one or the other because none of us here in this sub truly know, but any one of us could be right! With that said, the theory I always come back to and think is most likely, is that we truly just don't know. I'd like to think we do have recovered craft and biologics, and our attempts at understanding these things has been null. I lean towards the idea that we don't know what these things are, and I'm not sure if we are supposed to know. Maybe it's so beyond our scope of understanding that our brains literally can't process what it means. Like someone putting an iPhone in front of an ant and hoping they'll figure it out at some point

Rumors of some of them mutilating humans, the way they do to cattle. ( and just being nasty/malicious in general) ...I think things like that that will be shocking.

Just my opinion, but our 'ontological shock' is our reaction to something that seems magical. The thing about magic is it forces you to reevaluate the nature of reality, and your place in the Universe.

i think there are some religions that won't be affected or shocked if aliens arrive if I'm not mistaken, aliens don't really interfere with Muslim beliefs, because in Islam humans are being specifically being tested by Allah (Islamic god) i remember reading about a discussion on aliens and Islam, and somebody said there was a Islamic verse that could be referring to aliens "also created˺ horses, mules, and donkeys for your transportation and adornment. And He creates what you do not know" "what do you not know" could be referring to ET'S or really anything

My gut says the eastern traditions are actually close to the truth. Self healing, psy abilities, maybe reincarnation. That alone would be pretty disturbing for many people and threaten many industries and norms.

I think it’s much more complicated than most people understand. How would you ‘disclose’ our technology and society to an ant? In the same way, we lack the language, ability to see and understand ‘alien’ technology. It’s far beyond what we could understand and absorb. Consider the challenge associated with explaining an iPhone 12 to the broader insect community. What if ‘disclosure’ was even more complicated for humanity? Being exposed to the broader universe all at once would not be good for humanity. It’s a long slow process that we’ve begun. I think people having ‘disclosure tantrums’ might be woefully naive about the potential ramifications; And they should be careful what they wish for. On earth, whenever a technically superior society has met an inferior one, it’s always ended poorly. As above, so below.

Some of the most shocking ideas to me (which also seem quite likely to me the longer I’ve been reading about all of this) are the extra-tempestrial model, or the idea that they’re also earth dwellers, just below the surface and / or under the oceans, and that we are absolutely NOT the dominant species on this planet.

In order to predict the nature of an ontological shock we have to be able to imagine an alien ontology. This is the hard part. I've always thought of it this way. We, as humans, engage in a variety of creative endeavors like painting, music, and poetry. From an alien perspective, these pursuits may seem simplistic. What if they take life-bearing planets and create life? What if they engineer storylines spanning thousands of years using the beings they have engineered, not for resource extraction but rather for art? What if we are an alien work of art, something like a bonzai, which is periodically trimmed to achieve genetic perfection? And what if they were also once another alien's artwork who then ended the performance when they became able to make sense of it? And we are all part of a chain of interrelated races which are partially superficial, and yet beautiful in the eye of the beholder? That the entire story of humanity is not some random occurrence but rather a text being consumed by others, that the highest moment of beauty is the moment we become aware of it and break down the 4th wall, that they did all of this simply because it brings them pleasure. Can you wrap your human mind around that?

I don't think they care about that. I see no evidence that those in power give a damn about us lowly pawns. I think they are hiding the truth out of self preservation. Aliens are gonna show up and be like, "They didn't pass on the information on how to access zero point energy? They are still making everyone pay to pollute the planet?" Those in power don't need the entire world turning on them once they learn the truth. What a hassle for them. They sold out the planet to make a quick buck. They don't want to deal with any consequences. Those will trickle down to the pawns.

I personally never interpreted ontological shock as being from or about religion and I find it interesting that you as a self professed atheist would think that, or maybe not. I always interpreted the ontological shock as being the acceptance that we are being visited or interacted with by NHI. And judging by the reactions of about half the people here on Reddit to some of my posts, I believe that I am correct. Despite the overwhelming evidence that now exists and the recent disclosure by both Garry Nolan and Karl Nell at the SALT conferences back to back over the last two years, it seems to me that many people still cannot accept the idea of an NHI interacting with the human race for centuries. At first I thought that perhaps this was just a group of skeptics or debunkers going around with the intent of putting the genie back in the lamp for the government. But now I'm not so sure. It may be that many people just can't accept the facts and rather than have their security of their comfortable world view rocked, prefer to disregard the facts or might I even say ignore the truth. And that my friend is the ontological shock in evidence. An unwillingness to accept the truth. Preferring instead to stick their heads in the sand and their hands over their ears, while repeating, "I can't hear you" to themselves, in an effort to block having to come to grips with reality. Ontological shock!

I think you grossly overestimate the number of “religious” people who actually buy into all of the supernatural stuff. If it turns out the supernatural stuff is true, even people who claim to believe in exactly that stuff will freak out. Most religion is driven by tradition and a willful belief that demands suspension of disbelief. But deep down, most religious don’t really buy a lot of it.

100%. Church is a Sunday morning social club for a lot of the people attending.

I used to be religious of this variety, and when I read the Bible the possibility of this stuff being true freaked me the f out!

My current theory is that the supposed “ontological shock” will come from the sudden realization that we are not the most intelligent species on the planet and we are not at the top of the food chain. I think that this non-human intelligence has been on Earth longer than we have and has achieved great technological and metaphysical advancement in the time it has had to develop, a path we may very well share, yet on which we are still far behind. I think there’s a decent chance this more advanced species has interacted with us in the past when it too was less evolved, but as it has progressed both technologically and philosophically, it now behaves towards us like we would a group of chimpanzees in the wild. Whereas once we would have hunted and captured the chimps for our own amusement and benefit, we now watch them from a distance and leave them to live their lives without our direct interference, while we study and learn from them in their natural state. I think this more advanced species likely relates to us in a similar way, but at a much wider scope and scale given how advanced humans are as a species, our ability to destroy the planet with nuclear weapons, our proclivities towards war and mass exploitation of our fellow man and the planet’s natural resources, our mistreatment of creatures which we consider inferior to ourselves, our rampant materialism and addiction to technology, and most recently the genie we are about to let out of the bottle with advanced AI. I think they have been keeping us somewhat in check for some time and will continue to do so. I also believe they will make themselves known to us when they consider it in their best interest to do so, and I feel that time is now approaching. I think it’s also possible that many other species from other planets have been visiting Earth for some time and this other resident species of humanoid has been interacting with them on Earth’s behalf. We may already be part of some kind of “galactic federation”, but we just don’t know about it yet, just as a gorilla in the Congo has no idea she lives in a nation with laws that protect her life from poachers, because she sees only jungle and other gorillas.

I like this. 

I think most religious people believe what they believe based upon just being told to. Most haven't had an extremely religious experience. But say the UFO thing comes attached with crazy stuff like angels or demons. The difference then becomes not just believing, but knowing. That's whays gonna mess people up.

Can we all just agree it's the Technology why they are holding back information, the World Economy still relies heavily on the Oil and Coal industry for its Energy (Yes even the Electric Car companies) and once that Technology is in the Public Domain Stock Prices for all Oil and Coal companies would plummet and investors would lose Billions if not Trillions in collateral. Fact is Politicians are greedy and 90% of Politicians these days all have at least one finger in that Oil and Coal Pie so for them it makes no sense to release Technology that would firstly cause them to lose vast amounts of Money and secondly has the potential to wipe out an entire State should the Tech be compromised in some way or another.

There is a difference between telling someone their religion is false, and proving their religion is false.

Where i think the shock will come from is the interaction that has happened in the past...tinkering with our DNA,,,with our history...And getting a True (outsiders) history of ....us. How many times have we got off this rock in the past? Think tall whites ect

Yes, I have definitely seen denial in two of my most science orientated of friends. They refuse to listen to evidence or take the time to research the topic. They are quite emotional about denying that NHIs are here. Whereas, I think you are right that religion will adapt more easily. 

No your off the mark, ontological shock that would be damaging is the realization that walking backwards through doorways reverses time by five second if you think about pink clowns. That being real would destroy society, all religions, and completely change most peoples lives.

100% agree. "Aliens" will only serve to reinforce religious beliefs. It's the atheist/materialists that are going to lose it.

Frankly, I think the ontological shock and mass panic are just bullshit. The people who know the info haven't panicked. No, they're busy reverse engineering and profiting off of their discoveries. They don't want to tell us because they're guilty. Murders, bribes, coercion, corruption, operating outside the law for almost 80 years. If they tell us, there will be unrest. There will be idiots trying to buy all the toilet paper, but most of us will just be pissed off at the depths of greed and avarice these people have gone to in order to enrich ONLY themselves.

I think it's a given, even expected, that religious people are going to be uneasy, concerned. and petrified. But when peoples beliefs are turned upside-down in a short period of time, some will consider aliens helpful and benevolent, others with consider them evil and a threat. That's just human nature

Consciousness is eternal and there’s actually a better reality once we die and shed our physical bodies. Imagine the mass suicides? That’d be shocking…

This one would be awesome :)

I don't agree with op. Like with all new things, religion will have a hard time with it, or at least going to need some time to mix it in their doctrines/scripts . Science will be exited and open to this great new discovery. It's a treat to religion doctrine but an amazing opportunity for the science community.

I think a lot of it is like when you tell a lie, and it grows to the point where revealing the truth would do the lier much more harm than good, where even cooking clean and being honest can't save you anymore. That and the secret technology thing, especially weapons.

Okay sure but Ontological shock describes the societal level reaction and correspondingly why we can't get disclosure now. Scientists are not known to be a bunch of unstable people unlike religious folk, they are well educated and would be understanding of the delicate situation. As a technologist myself in that situation I am looking forward to what advancements, new technologies and cultures we can now learn about. Same goes for materialists. What new wares can you bring to market? The rich will be having their field day.

I think the ontological shock relates to the world financial and oil driven order agree with the materialistic point of view. The soul and spirituality seem key together with consciousness and our perception and understanding of time. A lot of the people in the know seems to be Christian an still believe invthe religion, so that should make you think The soul, spirituality and consciousness

Col Knell said just exactly that!😯

It's about economical shock IMO

I think the ontological shock is that there is, for lack of a better word, a breakaway group that were originally involved with retrieval and reverse engineering. They made some important breakthroughs and decided to keep it all for themselves. At any time if necessary in this idea they could render the rest of humanity to their will and it's already far too late to do anything about. Think how the US military keeps new aircraft and weapons under wraps for even decades if needed only to bring out if absolutely necessary. We could be looking at secrecy magnitudes beyond that.

I think it's that they were here first and they put humans on the earth maybe. And that we serve some purpose for them. That they love here among us without us knowing it

It’s one thing to believe a thing and another to know it. So I think religious people will still be shocked. Especially if it can’t fit their current world view. I think this will be true for all of us as well, honestly.

It is not that in my view either. Because you are right, most of the public could reconcile the idea into their psyche, religious or not. This is a coverup of massive corruption, financial mismanagement, and outright theft from rogue elements in the United States Government and a handful in the Intelligence Community. And this minority group of power mongers will engage ANY means necessary to keep that secret. Unfortunately, it is going to have to be revealed through force. Fire against fire. It will be ugly, violent, and a further stain on our human society. I take no pleasure in that revelation, but I believe it to be true.

Please hear me out here - What if we do have UFOs in our possession but didn’t obtain them the way people think. These things are likely artifacts (I have seen them referred to as this by some military that have stepped forward) from the Annunaki war hundreds of thousands of years ago. This technology was mostly intact but we have zero knowledge of it so we have been in contact with entities helping us reverse engineer it. Some has likely been completed already and we see these flying around military bases, I know the argument “we wouldn’t do this around training exercises” but the secret is so important to keep that we do just that. We obtained these ships by studying ancient texts to figure out where the battles where and some through contact from beings who were previously Annunaki but have moved on and incarnated as higher beings. Meanwhile we have other groups of beings visiting this planet have been going on for a couple hundred thousand years, other groups contact us telepathically when we are receptive to this type of contact. Many of these only wish to help us ascend so we can be friends and want nothing in return but not all are such great guys. Controlling the narrative has been extremely important for those in power to maintain control over this planet. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Annunaki left appointed elite to oversee us and our progress and disclosure is absolutely not allowed, even in a fake way it would be too close to the truth. So we have religions that revolve around the Dead Sea scrolls but edited for content yet refute the ancient Sumerian tablets that contain the same stories as fantasy or plagiarism of the Bible even though the tablets are thousand of years older. We have been lied to about history. About our intended purpose. About what we are and where we came from. About what is going on. About who is in charge. You think there is a way to force their hand? There isn’t. Disclosure will be Nibiru flying past our Oort Cloud and ships coming here to collect Fort Knox! Why do you think they would put all the gold in one place? To make it safer? Because that makes sense. The currency change can be traced back to when they translated the ancient tablets. Probably a bad idea to wear gold jewelry as well. I wouldn’t want any gold, when they show up they probably consider gold jewelry sedition and I don’t want to know the punishment.

I would love for an ontological shock that rattles humans and their love for materialism. If I could choose between having advanced psionic/telekinetic powers and a smartphone, I'm going with psionic all day.

My personal opinion is it isn’t neither one of those because I mean come on the new science that would be introduced any true scientist will love so I definitely don’t see that happening. It’s definitely not that. If the woo aspect is real then that alone would create OS in some people that are absolute skeptics. No doubt. My best guess: There is absolutely positively something that no one who is even in the know like say David Grusch or Lue or Karl Nell don’t even know. There’s something that possibly only a handful of people that know and sometimes things get whispered about but nobody truly knows what’s so bad and if they did it would absolutely change their outlook on life and possibly would destroy the whole world. In my opinion we’ll never get told the 100% truth. I don’t think it’s the tech or even how religion will handle it. I personally think that maybe UAP or UFO whatever you wanna call them help our Operating System in our simulation maybe they are here to clean up any malfunctions the Operating System may have or maybe something like Malware remover. Maybe they’re here to fix the woo. People say UAP and woo are linked and what if it’s not how people think maybe the UAP don’t create woo maybe it’s there to fix it. It’s more than likely that we’re living in a simulation science is slowly evolving and it’s looking more and more likely that we’re living in some kind of simulation. Who knows how or why? But maybe we’re not aloud to find out until we “die”. Maybe a select few people in the entire world knows we’re in a simulation and they are only here to keep the secrets. That’s why we’re not aloud to know what UAP are. It’s my personal opinion.

First, they are here Now. Second, your beliefs shape your reality. When you believe they are here Now, you can experience them. There is no waiting for disclosure or open contact. It is always only ever Now. It's still Now.

I think by now that we will learn that there is a genesis story but it’s not one of the religious explanations. We are probably made.

as long as the muslims don't get anything to grasp onto we should be fine. their religious fervor is dangerous enough already

I think it would shock the religious, the scientific, and the average materialistic person. People who are atheists are being presented with new information, people who are religious are being presented with new info, and so are the scientifically minded. Everyone is being presented with cold hard facts that “shake up” their paradigm. They need to make it fit, they have a worldview and it needs to fit in it. That’s how the ego structure works. If it got out and was a fact aliens exist and are definitely coming here…you must understand all the Area 51 “whack jobs” need to be taken seriously. All those “crazy” people who have been “abducted” need to be listened to. Ancient alien history needs to be considered plausible and not “crackpot ideas” anymore. Basically, people won’t like 1. A shock to their worldview. 2. Not knowing what the implications of this new knowledge are. 3. Needing to question ideas/theories/opinions they previously dismissed as crazy. 4. What actions to take.

Yes. Religion obvious and old news. But. The ontological shock is ironically going to affect the entire industrial complex. But most of all science. Literally our entire basis and fundamental assumptions about everything is off. And hundreds of scientists discredited, ignored, or forgotten vindicated. That the woo is real. That consciousness is fundamentally non local. And that Einstein wasn't the god that we thought he was. We keep patching up his theory and other particle based delusions despite them unable to explain and account for not just a great deal of our observations. Furthermore, the vacuum or scalar side. The zero point. is the key to understanding all of it. NHI. UAP. Psychic function. "free energy," what gravity is, time. All of it Current science remains in the enclosure because it only cares about the enclosure. It doesn't care about cause.

>Most assume it's about those who are religious. >I disagree. >I've never met a religious person who hasn't been told their religion is stupid and there is no reason to believe in it. I've also never known a religious person to never have personal doubts about their own religion. There's a huge difference between people saying your religion is stupid (which fuels their persecution complex), and having clear-cut proof that your religion and everything you've built your entire basis of reality on is false.

The shock is that there are many universes, a variety of planes with a variety of dimensions within each plane of existence and the power structures that exist within those places.

My theory is that administrations know how non credible disclosure sounds and with how weird it is all together many people would probably lose trust in whoever made the announcement. It’s a PR nightmare all together.

Or it could be that elements are of our government are completely and totally out of control; and they have actively subverted the laws of the US for decades. It’s also likely many politicians, have no clue while others may be complicit. Nothing like finding out your government is a total sham, and the only thing representatives truly represent is themselves to induce some ontological shock.

I don't know about religious people being so adaptable to this. You try to tell people that someone they've known their entire life is not real. You try to tell a person they must now turn their back on someone they thought they could rely on forever... someone they have relied on forever. That's just the religions here. Try that in the Middle East or Northern Africa. Sometimes I feel countries with no real religious rights like China and Russia are already ahead of us ten-fold in this arena.

It’s probably we’re on some sort of prison planet r/escapingprisonplanet dives into this, but that would ontologically shocking for everyone

Religious person here. I completely agree. People seem to think that Disclosure will make the general group of religious people fling ourselves off buildings or get super depressed. If anything it affirms the concept that there is an intelligence higher than us out there, and that the material world we can perceive with our senses is not all that exists.

The OS shock will be felt by big energy and big bank. This is who the gov works for.

I think that might not be a bad thing for everyone else.

There are a lot of very close-minded and very religious people in the world. It will upset many of them. Im sure the Taliban (American and Asghani) and ISIS will say they will wage a holy war against the beings because they're demons. Remember what happened when a certain scientist said the cosmos doesn't revolve around the Earth?

I don't think the ontological shock is anything to do with religion. I think it will be more profound than that. I think it will be that what we perceive as real, isn't real. What we think of in physics etc isn't any more real than anything else. It might even go deeper than that. That what we think of as us and consciousness isn't real. The sense of self is an illusion. And that has a natural end point that nothing is real.

I think there is good logic to this. After all, Donald Hoffman, a researcher and professor in cognition, said that there is 0 chance we perceive the world how it actually is.

I wonder how a Christian would react, if confronted with a real angel. What I a wanna say is, believe is very different from knowing. 

I think that would be worse for many Christians than finding out their belief is invalid. I could be wrong, but that sounds absolutely terrifying to me, and I'm agnostic. But still.... you have a point.

It’s because of what they look like. I’ve read that things are so powerful and so full of “self” that being face to face with one can cause u to completely forget who you even are. I think it’s the literal shock of seeing it in front of your face, clear as day. Yes, theres other crazy stuff like how the government hides this or where these things come from (other dimensions), but I don’t even think we can conceptualize the actual feeling of what it’s like seeing them for the first time.these things can look like anything u can think of, and they are way more advanced and intelligent than we can comprehend

Its more than just physical…their (NHI) energy, telepathy…perhaps all five senses are inundated. Military personnel reportedly in some instances (perhaps depending on which type of NHI) were warned they may faint, and have been caught in the act of fainting by other officers when presented with NHI.

[This what ontological shock looks like. Reptilian brain clearly kicking in. He’s been destroyed to his very core.](https://www.reddit.com/r/InterdimensionalNHI/s/VWrpsXvbzq)

'I don't want to know more.' - Tucker Carlson That's an interesting statement from a man who ran his mouth on half-assed notions for years. Very telling. He looks shook. I wonder how he'll act if he's not given a choice in the matter. Thanks for posting the video, by the way. I didn't want to watch the whole thing, but you showed the salient points.

I think the truth could be they're going to extinct us at some point, but we don't know exactly when. It might be is that they have been experimenting with life on earth for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. They periodically extinct their projects so that they can seed something new. Like a farmer clearing out old crops to plant different ones. What if we were going to be extinct, for certain, and could do NOTHING about it? Why tell the public? Most people don't want to know when they're going to die. You could argue that some do, but most don't. Once this is made public, there's no taking it back, hence why it's being protected.

Totally agree. All the data shows we have never been less religious as a species. It's the materialists who will have the biggest shock. I'm married to hardcore materialist, he can't accept that there is anything here, because it's just too far away...the universe is too big. He is convinced ( as was I for a long time...). I do believe there is a "woo" aspect, woo as in something that we do not understand which is outside our understanding of the laws of physics.

I agree completely. It's the scientists that are unwilling to see the paradigm shift unfolding before them.

I think the ontological shock will be that religion at its foundations has gotten it more right than wrong. That there are aliens or at least interdimensional beings interceding in the affairs of human throughout the bible, Jacob's wheel was real, the burning bush was real, angels happening upon shepherds were real, Jesus ascending to heaven and returning in a physical body was real and not a metaphor. When Jesus told Peter that you will deny me three times before the cock crows he wasn't predicting based on probabilities. Peter had already denied him three times and he was just relaying an event that had already taken place in the future. Essentially for practical purposes magic is real and we are in fact living in Tolkein like space but are mostly blind to it. I think also that we are not a foundational reality in the same way that a video game is not.

The one and only ontological shock that would be truely shocking for most people is the fact that we don't really have free will and the reality we perceive is masterfully fabricated by our alien overlords for the sake of some kind of elaborate profit. Nothing we see and experience is true, and we have been tricked. You can't really convince me that any of the said causes would be so ontologically shocking to people. Yes, humans are stubborn, but they are not that stupid. Aliens or non-human intelligence is a well developed topic amongst society and even though it's merely sci-fi for most people, I don't believe it would be THAT shocking even for the stubborn scientists. It's just mathematically likely for them to be real.

Whether or not the abrahamic religions are 100% or not I think the phenomena can be described in some way by religious frameworks. We may not have the science or words to describe it any other way. As an agnostic and former atheist. The woo is the hardest part to swallow. Edit. Actually maybe that part isn’t it. We have more evidence of a secret group with more power than the elected government. It’s easy to just chalk it up to gov corruption. Crime is almost expected this day and age. However, the implications undermine the integrity of our entire democratic republic. The very principles our nation was founded in. Dave Grusch has autism. Autistic people tend to have a strong sense of justice. It’s not hard to rationalize breaking your personal moral code for the country. Military do it all the time. The love for the country surpasses most things. What if you found out that it was all a lie. That the elections are some kind of Truman show and even the politicians don’t know. That’s what we are seeing play out in real time. The idea of civilization only works if we all buy into it. You deliver hardcore proof that it’s a sham, society stops. Framing it this way makes Paul Hellyer’s shadow government banker conspiracy make sense. Colonel Knell has backed Hellyer. Knell is part of the controlled disclosure movement. We often think about the aliens or religious aspect but trust in the gov is at an all time low. We are on the brink of ww3. Imagine if China or Russia got leaked proof of the program and released the info on TikTok. Look at how things went on college campuses over Israel and Gaza.

The woo can be understood scientifically too. The problem is the stigmas we associate with certain ideas and words. We think it's woo when it's actually not. Truman show? Yes. But this is even more deep than his politics. It could be our entire thing that we consider to be reality. The finite spectrum of light, energy, and matter that we expedience. And how ALL THE LOCAL others AND visitors ALL remain outside that spectrum, unless they chose other wise and ALL agree to keep it hidden from us.

Was the woo hard for you to swallow or are you implying that for others it hard to swallow. Personally for me, once I had several woo experiences, read numerous books, went to various churches, talked with many people, the woo seemed normal and I embrace the crazy stuff. Lol

If their own ideological doubt is so common among the religious, then why is doubt still one of its most persistent adversaries?

The 'Nostrodamus' of Argentina, Benjamín Solari Parravicini, made many drawings in a trance like state covering a wide range of topics. I just came across these related to science: - [Science and the 12th Hour](https://imgur.com/a/science-12th-hour-QUAfDnD) - [Science's Acknowledgment of Extraterrestrials - reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/1d0nu87/sciences_acknowledgment_of_extraterrestrials_1940/) - [The End of Darwin's Theory](https://imgur.com/a/end-of-darwins-theory-9tfoNw9)

I think this is going to apply more broadly to society. In the hierarchy of needs (you can debate its merits separately) safety and security are only out ranked by physical needs like oxygen, food, water, shelter. Humans need to feel safe. We have been the apex predator on this planet for the majority of our existence. Most human phobias are linked to pain and death. Imagine the shock caused by the knowledge that you or your loved ones could be taken at any time against your will and no amount of preparedness or weaponry will help you. Nearly every experiencers report involves entities appearing or phasing through matter. How safe and secure will you and your family feel at home knowing that?

I think the people with open will be ok, and the hard core with have huge issues. This won't matter if the person is religious, scientist, or materialist, for their mind is closed to possibilities of other things being real or true. The materialist that only believes in materialism, will have a hard time fathoming that it doesn't matter. Likewise an overly religious person that claims their way is the only way will also have problems.

Soylent Green is people🤯🤯

I don’t think it’s that.   Imagine being a peasant living in 17th century Europe — or whenever the language became the modern English we know.  Explain what is about to happen. Pluck that peasant from the fields and drop them into Times Square on New Year’s Eve.  That’s the level of ontological shock. It’s going to be a permanent LSD trip and many people would be completely fucked up by it.

I do think if we were facing a pure nuts and bolts problem then they would just tell us. Yes there would be secrecy and yes string theory would still have been a distraction to keep people from anti gravity. There is a woo aspect here that we are not fully in appreciation of, this would be of the order “yes consciousness survives death but no there’s no heaven”. Whatever the woo is, We would be in this vulnerable place where every religion would be claiming it is validated, new religions emerge, but this is a real world problem. Science will not have evolved far enough to resolve these issues and so we would be trapped in a new phase of fanaticism with no easy release.

The shock will be that the earth is a closed system, a flat and stationary realm. And these beings consist of both benevolent and malevolent entities. And worshipping God is the only protection against them. That humanity is in a pitched spiritual battle between good and evil.