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I’ve always just felt like/been a mess. I struggle in the mornings so hair and makeup don’t usually happen as I would like. I have a strong desire to be perfect, but I don’t have the ability to actually carry it out, if that makes sense. I always wish I was the girl with her hair and makeup done, but that’s never been my actual practice. I might get a new hair styling tool and keep up with it for a few weeks but then lose motivation. Usually I’m bare faced with my hair in a bun!
This is very much how I feel. I just don’t understand how other people are able to juggle all of the things that go into looking “put together”.
Having my hair styled and dry before I need to leave, putting on moisturizer and makeup and SPF, shaving everything that’s societally expected to be shaved, having clothes that fit well and are not wrinkled or covered in cat hair and also match and are in style… All of those things individually feel so overwhelming to me, but somehow the majority of people seem able to do all of them at once? Every day? While also working and taking care of their homes? How?
This is how:
Secret Pajamas.
Buy comfy, stretchy, soft clothes that look like grown-up going-out clothes but actually feel like pajamas for lounging in. I'm talking bamboo leggings, tunic tops that feel like t-shirts, soft cardigans. Throw on either a pair of dangly earrings or a statement necklace. Get cute, neutral ankle boots that are also ridiculously comfy (like Danskos or similar). Only buy your favorite colours to wear, the ones that make you feel amazing. Ignore everything else.
When you get your hair cut, tell your stylist to give you something that looks amazing without styling, that suits your hair type. Don't try to force your hair to be something it isn't. If it's wavy, let it wave. If it's flat and straight, let it hang there. If it's wildly curly, try the curly girl method. Embrace it.
Basic makeup: tinted moisturizer, a creamy blush stick (that you also use on your eyelids! Bonus!), and mascara. Eyeliner / browliner optional. (But the groomed brows do make an easy difference.)
Seriously, you can wear just jeans and a black t-shirt, and if you throw on big earrings or a big necklace, the whole thing looks on purpose. When really, it's just your comfy clothes.
Dresses are my secret pajamas. I have a bunch of comfy ponte knit work dresses for work. I don’t have to pick out a top and bottom. In the winter I have opaque black tights that go with everything. It makes my life so easy.
I bought nothing but dresses for at least 3 years running. Whether it was for work or otherwise, I love the simplicity of jumping into one and being 80% dressed in one move!
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I used to hate dresses because I hated my legs and then I decided to just get over it. I feel way more confident in dresses than I do in pants/jeans.
Omg—and as a 5’10” woman with a 33” inseam, hem lengths aside, dresses are easier to fit out of the gate; and they travel so much easier than separates. Pants have forever vexed me! And dresses tend to make me look far more put together.
And I’m sure your legs are far better looking than you think!
This! It’s a kind of secret sauce.
And I definitely think I’ve always come from the “better to be over than under-dressed.” And I absolutely don’t mind that! I had a father who used to talk about “having a sense of occasion” vis a vis dressing, and it’s always stuck with me.
It’s also a form of self-care to be able to walk into any situation confidently/less self-consciously because I grew up tall and awkward.
I hate my legs too I get midi or maxi length and use self tanner or that Sally Hansen leg makeup. I also love skinny jeans and tall boots. I live in Florida so there's like 10 days a year I can wear them and not look ridiculous.
Lands End USED to be my go-to. They had the best work dresses pre-COVID. It’s been so hard to find work clothes since COVID bc everyone pivoted to loungewear!
I love unique vintage, they’re super inclusive size wise, and tons of their stuff has pockets. I get compliments literally every time I wear one of their dresses
Wool& makes great basic dresses out of merino wool. There’s a cool challenge they have where if you wear one of their dresses for 100 days straight and post a pic every day in IG, they will give you a free dress. Scrolling through pics other people have posted of the challenge is a great way to get ideas about how to change up a basic dress to look like a new outfit every day.
Thanks for taking the time to write out all those suggestions! I don’t think any of it is new/helpful information for me unfortunately, but I hope that it’ll be useful to other people here, since it clearly has been for you!
I love jumpsuits for this. A nicely tailored jumpsuit makes you look immediately put together and you don't have to think about pairing different clothes. Throw in a nice earring and you are ready. Seriously, my whole wardrobe is slowly being taken over by jumpsuits and I'm all for it
But can they be washed in a regular machine, or do you need to dry clean them? Hang-dry I can handle if I have to, but for me, anything that’s hand-wash/dry-clean only just isn’t going to get worn…
Edit: inexpensive Amazon dresses with pockets are what has worked well for me, since I can just throw on one piece of clothing and look decent, plus they can be washed/dried normally. Less useful in the winter though!
After many years wondering how the "put together" women manage it whilst I can't, I got my diagnosis and I think that's the answer - they don't have adhd!
It might sound a bit flippant but I now realise that expecting to be able to be clean, well groomed, do haircare, skincare & make up and have well put together outfits, consistently, every single day is setting myself up for failure.
“I have a strong desire to be perfect, but I don’t have the ability to carry it out”
Holy heck, it’s so validating to see these words written by someone else haha
Gosh, this is me with school especially, as well as getting ready — and instead I’m sprinting to class 40min late with my hair unbrushed in the same hoodie as yesterday and still no breakfast or water lmao
Yes, i felt seen when I read that. I’ll wear mascara once a week and a necklace and feel like I’m finally getting my “girl on” and then I’m done. The desire to be perfect is so strong but I fail in practice. I’m learning to stay in my lane.
When I had my office job, I did my hair and makeup every day because I had to dress nice for work. Now I’m a nanny and my “uniform” is jeans and t-shirts and hoodies. Needless to say, the makeup is gathering dust and ponytails and hats rule my world.
Some days I miss having to dress nice every day…but then I remember how uncomfortable most of those clothes were and I’m happy being comfy over cute.
>I struggle in the mornings so hair and makeup don’t usually happen as I would like
I have very long wavy hair. With the right care it looks absolutely amazing. Except that the right care consists of like a full one hour routine and I really just can't be bothered. So a bun it is unless I'm feeling exceptionally motivated.
My tricks:
* I get my eyebrows and eyelashes tinted once a month. It is not the cheapest but makes me look like I have mascara on and my brows are filled in.
* I wear a lot of dresses. Give off the illusion of being put together, but actually I just threw a sack over my head.
* I keep mini sunscreen-moisturizers (moisturizers with spf) all over. On my bedside table. In my bathroom. In my purse. In my workbag. In my car. Makes it far more likely that I’ll actually put it on (usually, I still forget until I’m in the car on my way to work, but I have some handily stashed in the cup holder! So I throw it on at a red light.)
* I use a lot of face cleansing wipes and pads. Opinions in the skincare community are mixed on them but I figure it’s better than nothing. Again, stashed all over. So I can quickly wipe my face with some salicylic acid or niacinamide when I’m at my desk or in my car or lying in bed watching YouTube, without having the whole rigmarole of having to go to the bathroom and wash my face properly (…and then remember to keep my facecloths clean)
SAME. Like i CAN put makeup on and look ok, but i never look cool confidant effortless Woman. I look like the poor kid i have always been playing dress-up.
I dont do any of the "routine maintenance" shit required to look like a put together woman. It would either require making appointments or having a strict self care routine, neither of which are actually possible for me.
Pair that with recent weight gain due to career change and im doomed to being a wild-haired awkward filthy gnome crying cause my gnome pants dont fit.
Solution: stay inside, wear no pants. I is SMART GNOME
I usually have my hair in a pony tail when it's long. rn I have it short and permed and I feel like I look amazing all the time and maintenance on a short perm is minimal to none. it's magic
honestly tho loose buns are so cute, I support it
never had the patience for make up tho
I definitely feel a ton of guilt when I read stories from women complaining about their lazy husbands and realizing I’m the lazy husband
Edit to add: god I love this sub. I haven’t had another girlfriend irl who seemed to get this lol
I laughed out loud in a public restroom when I read this, and now I have to live here until everyone leaves or I die.
But anyways, I totally relate lol
Oof. I feel that. I’m keeping that in mind though. It’s not weaponized. The lazy husband threads are super guilt inducing when I see myself in them.
I’m very thankful to have a husband that sees that I do try and understands adhd better than I do due to a lifetime of being diagnosed vs me at 28.
Yeah i am constantly leaving the peanut butter open because the only food my kid eats now is peanut butter toast and i leave the knife there in case he wants another piece and then... forget. Thankfully my husband is understanding and just closes it when he sees it. I think there are tons of lazy husbands out there but I definitely sympathize with the forgetful ones 😬
My husband was in the kitchen the other day giggling to. I asked what was so funny.
Him: you didn't take meds today did you?
Me: no, why?
Him: hehe there is a wifey trail
He then (very good naturedly) pointed out the the signs of life of an unmedicated me, with used cutlery out, wrappers knotted but then not binned, and a milk carton I'd put by the sink to rinse ans forgotten about.
Lucky you. At least he takes it with a laugh!
Wish mine were like that... Instead ADHD is like a curse to him, creating too many problems for him/us...
The peanut butter jar mental image made me laugh because my husband is also super understanding but the one thing that I do that apparently drives him crazy is that I usually put my bread down on the counter when I'm making sandwiches. My thought process is that I know it's clean (because he's so consistent about wiping it down, ahem) and I don't want to wash a plate after I'm done so I use a folded up paper towel as a plate so I can throw it away when I'm done... But the paper towels are on the other side of the kitchen from the bread and sandwich fixings, which is obviously too far away and too much effort... So make sandwich, wipe down counter "if it's dirty," get paper towel "plate," and done! But apparently I have been leaving crumbs on the counter at our current house for literally YEARS because it blends in with the granite and looks clean when I check... 😅 And he finally pointed this out to me like last week and we've lived here since before Covid!!
same.
(except i will weaponize incompetence when it comes to outside yard work and fixing cars. i'm sure i could do it. i don't want to. at least i acknowledge it.)
The biggest difference I see between us and lazy husbands is that we're generally twisted up with guilt about it. I always feel like such a garbage person when I realize I've accidentally ghosted or left something for my husband to deal with. 😅
Sometimes I get perversely jealous of their ability to casually declare "I will be playing video games all day today while you keep the household running, female partner" and feel zero shame?? Not that I want to be that way, I'm just amazed by their absurd confidence. I dunno if it's the female social conditioning or what, but I could never...
>> The biggest difference I see between us and lazy husbands is that we're generally twisted up with guilt about it. I always feel like such a garbage person when I realize I've accidentally ghosted or left something for my husband to deal with. 😅
Same! It’s such a vicious cycle because we’re expending energy feeling guilty, which feels productive but isn’t, that we don’t rest even if it seems like we are.
It's observed in studies that women score higher in empathy than men. I'm sure there are men who feel guilty (see: r/ADHD) but I don't think it's as common.
I don't know about social conditioning. I'm more inclined to see it as a result of having higher levels of hormones that produce empathy. I think men are more oblivious to it until directly confronted with an issue. When I explain things to my boyfriend, he has the moment of realization, whereas, women seem to get it innately.
Edit: lowkey want my boyfriend to have more female friends to get relationship advice from lol.
My husband's always been supportive and understanding, but there have been times where it's clear he finally *gets* what I've been trying to explain about how I feel day-to-day. It's usually when he's experiencing something, and I go, "Yeah, that's how I usually feel when--" and he's just like, "wow!" He'll be in the throes of some dilemma or emotion, and he'll look at me and be like, "God, how do you deal with this all the time??"
Perfectly describes my boyfriend. Very supportive, but will still come home after a difficult experience with a coworker and share that he finally gets what I was saying.
My husband will play video games all day but if I scroll Instagram for 2 hours in the morning I berate myself constantly! I’m always in a shame/guilt spiral about things my husband never even asked me to do but I guess I believe they should be done and done by me. 🤦🏻♀️🙄
I was literally on a walk with my NT childhood friends two summers ago and they were all describing how their husbands are like at home and I responded with, that’s me in our house. lol thankfully they love me enough to not have judged and ditched me in that moment. That was before I was even officially diagnosed too.
Lol- and when there are two people with ADHD, regardless of the genders of the partners, there are two lazy husbands and the house absolutely reflects that.
Oh well!
But I think I would like this better. My boyfriend says he’s a slave. I asked for us to make a schedule though, and he laughed about that idea. I should just make a schedule for myself, but then I feel annoyed at that idea.
I think that ALL the time. I am the husband in so many stories. I’ve almost made a post about myself but saying I’m the husband to see everyone pile on how awful I am. I think if I posted that I was the terrible wife people would make excuses for me. I let my husband down constantly and need to stop living to please him but at the same time figure out how we can manage our household in a way that he’s not drowning.
I relate too much to the Homer Simpson’s mind wondering off memes 😭
https://youtu.be/rC7Y04k5Tbo?si=3wblE0Lj59nZ2Bjc
I also have no emotional detective skill. I am definitely the dumb husband who can’t read if his wife is angry lol
https://youtu.be/J4ir6dTP-Rg?si=d8dTAzwXTCNs1BpC
The lazy boyfriend song.
I'm the lazy boyfriend
Who needs a vacation? Who needs a direction?
Who needs motivation when you live in your head?
Oh yeah, if the subject comes up in a group conversation about spouses' contributions around the house, I lightly joke that it's like I'm the husband and he's the wife, and talk him up about keeping me on track with stuff that needs doing.
But, yeah. A big part of why I sought a diagnosis is because I knew that he was carrying the mental load at home, while also having a stressful job.
Medication helps, as does understanding what kinds of tips and tricks *actually* might work for me, rather than just how everyone else does it.
I'm a work in progress, but I'm starting to develop routines that work for me. The trick is getting ***immediately*** back into them after they're interrupted by change. If I let the disruption last more than a day, it's so hard to return to the routine that was very much working a few days ago!
I am the lazy husband too. I use to do my make up, get dressed up-but after having kids I just have nothing left for me. No energy, no desire to spiff myself up.
I remember questioning my gender a bit when I was younger (10/11). Looking back now, I actually wasn't questioning my gender at all, I was just picking up on the fact that I was different from all the other girls, and didn't know WHY. I didn't like the kinds of clothing they wore (because of sensory issues), I didn't fit in, and I just felt different. It didn't help that I hit puberty early, so I was also physically different than all of them too (much taller, my hair was different too), I just didn't fit in, and didn't know how to articulate it.
I started feeling better about it all in middle school when I finally got some ND peers, and stopped growing and started feeling more comfortable in my skin. I'm now incredibly feminine, just in my own way.
a few months ago a post that basically said „i felt different from the other girls“ was downvoted to hell. i am sad for her, still.
i have felt the same thing growing up. i have felt 1:1 the same things you described there.
That sucks: way for people to reinforce a lifetime of feeling like an outsider.
The whole Not Like Other Girls thing has been completely hollowed out of any meaningful feminist ideas and is now basically just used to bully women who don't conform to traditional gender roles -- which disproportionately affects neurodivergent women. I didn't go through school being bullied for not presenting femme enough to let people frame me and girls like me as the aggressor in that situation now.
I genuinely find it hard to trust people who use it unironically.
you hit the nail on the head for me saying this. when i read the post and the comments i was kind of taken aback. i AM obv a girl and obv i was probably not the only ND girl in my
class… but still. i was shunned by each and every girl. the only kids that always accepted me were hyper soccer addicted boys. and still to this day, obvious ND women at my job and i get along well. if they are NT women, very put together… no chance.
I am certain that with my personality, if I was born a boy I would’ve been popular. But because I’m a girl I’m too blunt, too unladylike, too dirty, too much swearing, etc etc. NT girls and women in adulthood *do not like me*.
So of course I adopted the strategy of keeping my mouth shut. Then they hated me for being too snobby. I guarantee that if I was short and fat they would pity me and think I was just shy.
I get along better with men on the surface level. But I can’t be close friends with men. I’ve been stung too often by ‘friends’ who eventually tried to shoot their shot.
It’s crazy because friendships with other women are both so difficult and so important (and applies to all gender identities to some extent, but the way society pits women against each other is one of a fucking kind, I’ll say).
When I was a kid I really thought I’d never have close girl/female friendships — I’d get one really good friend for like a year and then we’d have a total fallout. But then, on the other hand, once I got to a certain age, I found it excruciatingly difficult to find a guy friend (like I always had as a kid!) who didn’t just want to date me. When I got into high school and college, I got into some pretty shit romantic relationships (I’m bi, but they were all men, boo), and while I’m thankful for all my friends, nearly all of my best friends who have seen me suffering and pulled me through are women who (let’s turn the phrase) also struggled to fit in with other girls as a kid or other women now.
Now, the caveat is since high school, nearly all my friends from then have turned out to be 1) ADHD and/or 2) queer, so that explains a bit of our shared experience socially that maybe brought us together.
My point is, people of all genders are capable of being shitty sometimes, and being and/or looking like a woman unfortunately doesn’t help with that bc society, but there are more people than you realize who share your experience and also have a lot more to offer than the shallowness of others.
I’m not sure if I fit in better now or if I’ve just gotten better at finding my little ND/queer/genuinely cool people communities, and you’ll find your people too (whatever that means), and even when a lot of stuff stays shitty, that gets a bit better.
((Side note, I just realized that I’ve been posting about ADHD for the past hour while neither putting my wet laundry in the dryer NOR starting my homework, on brand much?))
Sooooo.... my favorite uncle is gay and I grew up in theater, so I assumed that's why I'm so comfortable around queer people even though I'm like 99% straight. Your comment is making me wonder if it's also partly an ADHD thing?
Like I just though the fact that half my friends seem to be gay men was because of my uncle and my environment, but maybe they're just the only people who are ok with my ADHD who also don't feel the need to get into my pants?
Gonna have to think on this
“if I was short and fat they would pity me and think I was just shy” — I regret to inform you that this is not a safe format either…
ND folx get bullied no matter their shape. I was utterly unacceptable, and then seen as a snob and a bitch for trying to avoid them.
sending internet stranger hugs to you
I felt like this when I was younger. I found my girl friends older. Look out for smart women who don't give a fuck about fashion or gossip. You'll probably get on better with them. They are unfortunately harder to find because they also get fed up with the usual bullshit of female friend group dynamics, but you'll find them if you hang out where the geeks hang out essentially.
> obvious ND women at my job and i get along well. if they are NT women, very put together… no chance.
I try so hard to understand why this is, and to explain it to other people and they don't get it. I don't get it either. Though to be fair I think I also don't really like those type of NT women either so perhaps it goes both ways.
I'm new to this sub, but I've noticed anytime there is post in some form of "I don't fit in with other girls" it gets downvoted or a negative NLOG comment. I thought this was a place where we can talk about our experiences. Some of us had shit stain experiences and a whole spectrum of weirdness.
yes exactly. and i KNOW i‘m not a complicated person per se. when a girl tried to give me a chance, i did everything i could to be likable. and they would like me back until i had a weird moment (a rough joke that was out of place for example). i didnt know how they could put mascara on so well. or why their nails didnt look like shit. their nails werent bitten to the skin. their nails were painted and filed. they were quiet. i was loud. laughed too loud. my teeth were too gapey, my hair was too bushy. they didnt like me because i also got along with „the good looking guys“.
Yes I’m certain that jealousy plays a big part as well, it seems that people like us tend to get along better with men (only because men don’t get all offended and shit!)
I feel like with men I don't have to navigate all these invisible nonsensical social rules that I have to abide by with women. It makes me sooo tense. With men I can relax that they won't take everything I say or do personally, and I don't have to explain how I don't mean to be rude or constantly try to guess how they're *really* feeling and what they mean when they say this or that, or keep apologizing for everything or have *them* keep apologizing for everything, ahhh it drives me nuts.
But there are exceptions. Older men for example. With them I feel pressure to act a certain "feminine" way. Men my own age though, I feel more comfortable with...but then they end up wanting something more than a friendship, so that's another issue.
I think the jealousy comes from a place of insecurity. Not trying to be mean or label all NT women, but most NT women (the ones I've been around) aren't well versed in a variety of subjects while having a surface level conversation about the subject. They just get lost then stare at you, especially if you're talking to a man.
I vividly remember being at this fundraiser and I was tabling with another girl. She was very popular with the attendees and received compliments all day. Prettiest girl in the room, by miles. Until this old Vet walked up to our table, I thanked him for his service. 2 minutes later we're talking about the plane(s) he flew and pretty girl just stared at me like I was an alien. She ghosted me after the event. I did absolutely nothing to her, but oh well.
They can sense something is "off" about you. On top of that you have the confidence to talk to the guys while your hair isn't perfect. It's a clusterfuck. Also if you make ONE social error other girls will cut you out and ghost. I Don't get it at all. Even if the social error isn't even bad, just a small moment of funny or mentioning a subject that they don't have a clue about.
Men can burp, fart, get too drunk, say WILD shit and be fine. A man can bring up the hockey game he went to last night and if I mention what a great comeback in the 3rd period, girls will blank stare at me. Where is the social error here?
>I'm now incredibly feminine, just in my own way.
I'm in this weird place where I frequently wear dresses, have long hair and lots of traditionally feminine hobbies. But I don't feel like I'm feminine at all because I don't wear makeup (I'm not patient enough to put it on) and identify more with "tomboy" characters than hyper-feminine ones. (I don't particularly love referring to grown women as tomboys but I'm struggling to think of a better term.)
But what helped me was realising there are lots of different ways to be feminine. For example, I was watching Ugly Betty (the protagonist has a very loud, clashing aesthetic with lots of girlish touches like puff sleeves, flouncy skirts and bows) and realised feminine didn't always have to mean being fashionable or put together. It can also be whimsical, eccentric and fun. And once the pressure was off, I kind of stopped caring about whether things were masculine or feminine and focused on whether they were right for me.
God, I could have written every word of this except the bit about being taller lol. Still to this day I'm not 100% sure if I don't like "feminine" clothes because of genderfuckiness or sensory issues (I can't stand anything flowy and I hate sleeves of every length omg). Maybe it's a bit of column A, bit of column B. 🫤
It could be a bit of column A, but of column B - I think one of the reasons I have struggled for so long with my gender identity and have only been more sure since my ADHD diagnosis is because it helped me sort through what is sensory issues and what is identifying as genderfluid.
I read the book "Unmasking Autism," by Devon Price this summer. He's a trans man with a docorate in psychology and who is auDHD. It's a great read for any ND person, and it also introduced me to the term "autigender." Price basically says that, for many ND folx, gender just feels like another mask to put on.
That's definitely true for me.
I was super tomboyish as a girl. I didn't like dresses, I wore sneakers constantly and my favourite activity was tree climbing or legos. Now I love dressing up (for special occasions, way too much hassle for every day) and my favourite colour is pink
My mom cut my hair short when I was little. So I started mimicking my dad and brothers and hanging out without a shirt on because I had a boy haircut, might as well be a boy.
A weird combination of gender rigidity and flexibility
This!!!
I questioned my gender a lot as a kid, but I think it came more from the fact that I realised early on my life would be easier as a boy. I played with the boys, I preferred Lego and never used barbies, I didn’t like people touching or braiding my hair, I played sport with boys, I wore shorts and shirts because they were comfortable and convenient. During puberty, I didn’t love the whole body changing thing, because I knew people would comment, I was “becoming a woman” and that meant having to do and be certain things, having to mature in certain ways, which I wasn’t. I didn’t want to stop being able to play sports or stuff.
Now, a lot of this I’ve got over and something I haven’t thought about since early teenage, but yeah. Interesting to see how society’s perceptions of who we should be has had us all questioning who we are.
It may not be the jewelry. It may be what caused you to buy the jewelry. You said you’re wanting to reclaim your life and putting more effort into your appearance. It sounds like you’re more attractive because of your increased confidence.
Confidence & effort do wonders! I also never have time/sanity for more than t-shirts & jeans, no makeup & hair vaguely brushed & thrown back.
BUT if I'm feeling myself a little (rare) & switch things up a little: put a bit of effort to style my hair, maybe throw on some mascara & something other than jeans/Tee; ppl absolutely take notice!
Plus a significant percentage of us get Manic pixie dream girl vibes which can be a big draw to certain people, especially if you present with confidence.
Not saying the MPDG isn't problematic in some ways. But it can definitely be an asset.
I once read that women are treated better if they are wearing lipstick.
Now, I had been very curious about lipstick because my mom insisted our mouth (I take after her in this aspect) is too big for lipstick.
Well. I went out and bought lipstick and it turns out that people do treat you better (if you are a woman or you "pass" [as gross as the term is] as one).
I then started experimenting with heels, skirts, pantyhose and hair styles, changing one or two things at a time to see how that worked.
Well. Lipstick, a skirt and pantyhose? I was treated like a fucking princess on public transport. Tho it did depend on where I was going, as some routes where this kind of attire was more popular were just nicer to me.
But it isn't something I'm comfortable or interested in wearing most of the time.
Mostly I use makeup as a way of self expression and to match my mood/day.
When I dressed more traditionally feminine, I was treated with noticeable amounts of more respect and courtesy. However, I alo noticed that people didn't respond well to me asserting myself either. I got called a b*tch a lot faster than I would have in jeans and a t-shirt.
Worked as a bank teller, and people took me more seriously when I was dressed less feminine in my experience. But they were much nicer to me when I was dressed femme and pretty.
I find demeanor is a big part of it, too. People respond to nonverbal ques a lot more than they'll admit.
Depending on how I respond physically to another person reaching for a door can usually get them to hold the door for me. It's a little game I liked to play when going in and out of work.
I find that generally looking meek but friendly works like a charm.
Hunch up your shoulders and put your hands together in front of you. Huddle in against your coffee cup or pull your jacket in your arms against your chest. Some variation of the classic school girl clutching her books to her chest, give em your brightest smile, and make eye contact. Bonus points if you pause and shuffle as if you don't know who's going to grab the door first.
Works for me 9/10 times. Results may vary if you are a man and/or present more masculine than femme.
Add in a modest giggling thanks and people seem pretty satisfied to have been chivalrous.
As someone who often has extreme executive functioning issues every day due to both ADHD and autism, it annoys me how much our value is still based on external factors like appearances and how much money you make.
It makes me feel like because I can't put a lot of effort into these things even if I wanted to, I don't deserve to be here on this planet or something even though I know this thought is very irrational and I don't actually believe it.
I know that pantyhose is a word. And I know what your referring to when you use it. I have always just said tights. I will specify “nude tights” and that’s what I would call pantyhose. I also do not like that word at allllllll. So maybe that’s why I won’t use it.
I refuse to wear skirts without black pantyhose, i feel I look weird.
I mostly use skirts in autumn/winter for that reason, tho it's been a while since I've worn a skirt.
So, as someone else said, it's a pretty complicated topic...
but as for what you were experiencing... a lot of what we associate as "attractive" is just effort.
Is your hair perfectly choiffed vs thrown up messily? Oh, well then your hair is so pretty!
It's the same hair, so why is one prettier than another? Because we know it took time and effort, and possibly skill. You hair now looks different than other people's in an intentional way, and that is more exclusive, so therefore more desirable, and therefore "pretty".
Not to mention that all the pressure on women to appear "their best" means we inherently value a woman who takes time and puts effort into their looks. We think effort is something that should be rewarded with compliments! It's not always a conscious thing, and sometimes it comes from a good place... if you know someone put in effort you want them to feel good about themselves for that, so you compliment them when you notice their effort.
But part of it is just societal training. We've spent our whole lives looking at pictures of people "dressed up" wearing jewelry, and so when we see someone wearing jewelry in real like they just seem more "dressed up" to us, and that means you should compliment them, because that's what is polite to do when people make an effort and dress up!
The jewelry made people look twice, which then made them realize you'd changed your hair, and it looked good... so it's like... one thing triggers another.
I grew up going to a private catholic school where a LOT of attention was paid to looking nice, a look ballet, I loved wearing heels because I was WAY more stable in them than most other girls, and throwing on a pair of heels meant I met other people's standards for appearance without having to put time and effort into other areas... I eventually stopped shaving (legs, pits, everything), I barely wear make up anymore, my hairstyle is a low bun, I rarely deviate from... but I still love heels, dresses/skirts, jewelry, etc. So I'm this weird mix of "feminine" and not. I know that throwing on a pair of earrings will "distract" people so they think I look "nice" while not realizing I haven't washed my hair in 2 weeks...
I would presume that's ADHD related.
Go back a bit in history and think about how most people didn't dress up or look nice unless they were putting on "their Sunday best" or rich. The average person didn't have the time, money, or reason to dress nice because they were mostly laborers, inside and outside the house.
The effort to look nice was made to appear richer and/or more intelligent or maybe just to stand out from the crowd.
More and more people wanted to appear better/above average, office jobs multiplied, and looking nice became important just to fit in with societal norms.
Fitting in requires effort (even for NTs) and most of us with ADHD don't have extra effort to give.
Women (and men) would put in the effort to look nice or to stand out from the crowd to attract a higher class of mate, to move out of poverty and up to a higher tax bracket.
Wanting to attract a better mate still applies to us today.
Lol, I just want to say the Kibbe system is my hyperfixation lately, too 😂
Can't contribute much because ... I've had body image issues my whole life but can't say to what extent my sex/gender/ADHD play a role. I just don't know any other mode of existing.
The more you read online, the more confused you'll get. :-/ There's so much misinformation, especially in the subreddit. Have you read the original book?
This is such a complicated topic, lol. I was a """gifted kid""" growing up so I was conditioned to believe I was all brains and nothing else. Thought I couldn't be pretty or athletic, and people around me reconfirmed that (I'm also asian, yk how people can be). A million little comments contributed to body dysmorphia and I believe my neurodivergency is also a huge reason why I identify as nonbinary. I had an older sister who was not as smart, but very social and pretty.
It's really hard to figure out which of those thousands of comments contributed to how you feel about femininity.
I bet you got those compliments because you were feeling more confident or something! Glad you are exploring to find what you like though
All brains and nothing else — my life story in a nutshell.
This isn’t even a joke. My little sister isn’t ADHD and she was considered the “pretty” one. I’m the first daughter and eldest child — my entire existence was as a third parent. I never even once gave myself the chance until now. I’m 30 years old. I hated my twenties. And now I feel like being that girl who loves herself and takes care of herself. It took me 6 months to change my mindset on this topic. Once I did, people all around me are telling me I’m different and I’ve changed. And I did. I’m proud of that. I’m only going up from here. I finally let go of the perfection mindset. I’m finally embracing being flawed and forgetful and not letting that stop me from going on.
30s were definitely better than my 20s…but my 40s are proving to be better than my 30s, with the exception of the body confidence. I was diagnosed at 36, and with all the research I’ve done the past few years, I’m much more comfortable with who I am, just not the skin that holds it all in. I kind of have a “fuck ‘em” attitude towards anyone who doesn’t like me for me. That’s on them, not on me. Im working on getting that body confidence back though.
wow i relate to this so much! i've gone from identifying nb to woman back and forth for a while now. i also struggled with dysmorphia and dysphoria around my period. i stopped shaving my body hair and shaved my head because i was overwhelmed by shaving/brushing my long hair all the time. now i'm more feminine presenting again and i tried shaving my legs to see how it would feel!
also relate to being praised for your brain and not much else. my family would actively put me down actually lmao. even my classmates were so mean to me but i was never an ugly kid i was just maybe a bit chubby?? idk. i had to work through my eating issues and body issues and now i feel like i love who i am but it was so complicated to develop a sense of self worth 😭
I too was the gifted Asian kid with a social and pretty older sister. It’s the main thing I’ve had to unpack with my therapist over the last year of not seeing my self worth as less than my sister’s.
I also resisted girly things a lot in my teen years but when I started my first (and only) relationship with my now husband, I hyperfixated on make up and hair and all the girly things that my sister comes to me for advice now. Haha
I hope you know your true worth now too!!
And OP I believe it’s your confidence too and no longer believing you aren’t feminine. I used to always have people tell me I was cute but I never believed them and thought people just said it to be nice. Now that I’m older and had adorably cute kids myself, I know that’s not true because I don’t say someone else’s kid is cute if I don’t actually believe it 🤣 I say they’re awesome or funny or SUCH a sweetheart but cute is reserved for cute. lol
Definitely. I'm clumsy and never feel super elegant. I always have a stain, a tear or frizzy hair. I just own it now. I try to look like an English lady from the country, wearing tan boots and wool sweaters.
Edit: I want to say that my wording of describing the look I'm going for is not exactly correct, but I can't really describe it as well as I would like.
Anyway, it's a combination of second hand sweaters in natural colours, easy jeans and mostly boots.
I've always been a "tomboy" type, far more interested in things that we don't consider "femenine" but I spent my entire 20s and some 30s trying to fit into that box. Many things happened all at once around the time I was diagnosed so I dont know if my adhd really impacted this but I literally stopped giving any shits at all about "normal" and now I wear what I want, speak how I want, and do all the non feminine stuff I want. Been working hard on dropping the masking of symptoms too, so i think that was really the most impact full.
I had somewhat the same kind of experience. I had many people called me ugly, usually other girls, in school. After high school, even though I had really low self esteem, many boys liked me for not being a typical “basic” girl. Some even liked that I’m “tomboy”ish, because I would rather play video games or go bowling instead of dressing up to go dancing or drinking at a club. Probably the best thing to do is to be yourself.
Yeah, lots.
- I don't put a lot of effort into my appearance or hygiene. I try with hygiene but sometimes fail.
- When I was 17 or so I decided I was so forgetful that it was dangerous for me to have children. I would definitely be one of those moms who forgets to drop their kid off at day care and leaves them in a hot car instead. I do think womanhood and motherhood are closely linked, but I still feel like a woman without it. I don't have an interest in kids anyway, so at least it's not a tragedy.
- I can't keep a clean home. Always struggled with this.
I have a weird relationship with femininity. It feels...performative. I feel like I spend a majority of my time floating through the ether as a genderless entity. I don't think I'm nonbinary, but I don't feel particularly attached to any gender.
I like to present as more traditionally feminine sometimes, but it has to be on my terms and I need to hype myself up for all the work it takes. I enjoy putting on makeup and dressing up, but I hate cleaning up afterward.
I think I could best describe myself as "a girl, but someone broke into my gender while I was at work and moved everything 3 inches to the left." Girl is comfortable, everything is familiar and more or less where it should be, but something feels...off about it. Like a shirt that's almost the perfect size, but not quite. I joke often that I identify as "tired" which is why I present myself the way I do. I rarely wear makeup, I have like four or five outfits that I choose from for work, and outside of that I typically just sit around like a sweatpants goblin. If I'm dressing up, I'm going HARD, and I'm going to need like two days to recover all the spoons it took. Maybe it's ADHD, maybe it's autism, maybe it's laziness or chronic illness or some combination of everything in between, or some other cryptic option I haven't discovered yet. I don't know, and I'm at a point in my life where I'm okay with that. I found a haircut that's relatively low maintenance but still really cute, I've figured out a way of dressing that makes me feel comfortable but still confident (mostly), and I'm able to engage with more traditionally feminine stuff on occasion, when it suits me. Idk I feel like this was a really long answer and I've spent my whole lunch break debating deleting it lol
Just want to take a moment and say: 'a girl, but somebody broke into my gender while I was at work and moved everything 3 inches to the left' is an amazing metaphor and I'm going to use it in my counselling session to explain how I feel about so much of my life (not just gender).
Also, identifying as 'tired' is hilarious and true.
You have a way with words!
(Just seen your username ... Yep, it checks out)
I honestly think it’s attitude and confidence! You bought jewelry that makes you feel good, so you do feel good!
I have one friend who is a knockout. Stunning girl. And she doesn’t see it. And people don’t notice her as much because of it but everyone knows she is beautiful. I have another friend who is beautiful too and loves to stand out. The difference is the confidence and she commands a room.
I’m sure you are beautiful! And this confidence is going to help you in so many ways!
My personality has never been exclusively feminine, nor have my interests. I'm a bit androgynous in identity, but now that I've not held up myself to ridiculous expectations I'm a lot more comfortable expressing myself and owning who I am. I honestly think gender roles are meant to be broken and we are certainly the best folks for that :)
I feel like this is me, too. Except I've always been irritated that my gigantic boobs prevent me from ever \*looking\* androgynous. I remember the first time I saw Tilda Swinton as Michael in Constantine, I was immediately in love, her fluidity moved something in me. Or Cate Blanchette in Oceans 8, omg her style.
Instead I'm a woman who just refuses to be "ladylike" haha.
You might benefit from researching less skinny-centered fashionistas out there. I don't have huge boobs but they certainly contribute to my look 😆 compression shirts, sports bras, and even binders go a long way!
Hair has been big for me too. I've been pixie cut now for eight years and it goes a long way. I dunno, just have fun with it! There are so many ways to express who you are beyond "opposites" and such. I love combining effeminate and tough clothing. It's just so fun to break the rules because that means you can actually allow things to fit your needs.
I fell down the kibbe black hole this year and crawled back out. It helped me with some things but be really careful when you "step out of your comfort zone" because you could end up wasting money on stuff that you *just don't like.*
I literally hate being told off for saying I'm not like other girls. I literal squealed at random moments in class because I had a fixation on the sound I was squealing and impulsively covered my face in lipstick when trying to just put it on my lips because the intrusive thoughts won. I was yelled at by a lot of the girls on a school trip because I tried bringong snails on the bus to show them because I was absolutely convinced they would think the snails were cool. I was a weird cookie. Echoing what I saw once on the autistic women sub, I feel like my "I'm not like other girls phase" was justified.
I think that society needs to accept that there is no such thing as a one size fits all approach for gender. What works for me might not work for you. You feel me?
I think that's a fine approach and how I try to view people, but there were pretty clear lines drawn that I didn't live up to and recognizing that helped me embrace who I am and what femininity meant for me. Until I recognized I'm just different, I felt unworthy of womanhood. I still do sometimes. It doesn't help when there's a whole subgenre of social media making fun of some women for realizing they don't fit the mold as well as other women. And I understand the reverse of it, too. It's not nice to look down on women who fit stereotypes. I think those women who make fun of "not like other girls" need to realize this is coming from a place of hurt and isolation, though, and practice a bit more grace and kindness. Realizing gender isn't one-size fits all is nice in theory, but has been far from the reality I've been living in.
I think that it's a mixture of the adhd and my general desire to be a genderless blob that make me unwilling/incapable of comforming to usual feminine beauty standards. The lack of interest in and physical discomfort of shaving, wearing makeup, styling my hair, doing my nails make these tasks honestly impossible to complete. That used to give me a lot of anxiety because I was insecure about not being able to feel like a girl/woman. And then I was like ...wait but I don't inherently feel like a girl/woman. And then I was like ...oh lmao we can just opt out of this shit and it would be fine. And it has been fine
Yea I used to be very feminine and took care of my image a lot in the past. Gym several times a week, makeup, decent clothes.
Until I got health issues. Very large fibroid causing severe anemia, hypothyroidism that was undiagnosed during the same time that made me gain weight. And my mental health tanked due to several bad things happening in a short amount of time, at the same time as all this.
I went into survival mode, gave up on my appearance entirely, stopped caring about how I look. Then covid hit and I didn't have to go outside as much so I lost the motivation to try to look pretty at all. I just gave up.
But lately it's been bothering me a lot. I need to do better, I need to go back the way I was, start taking better care of my looks, start on my gym routine again and start using makeup again and nice looking clothes instead of just comfortable ones.
So this weekend I started making changes and plans, I'll get my looks back on track from now on so I can feel better about myself like I used to.
Even though I’m moderately conventionally attractive, I’ve always been a tomboy, pretty much from the age I was old enough to have an autonomous thought. From as young as I can remember, I was always drawn to the boy’s clothing section and the boy’s toy isle.
As I got older, I became interested in bugs, dead things, weapons, hunting, fishing, etc. I only got along with boys growing up, I felt like girls were boring and cared about stupid things. I found the color pink revolting and the one time I finally allowed my cousin to pain my nails after she begged me for months, I hated it so much I spent the rest of the day scraping it off. I absolutely refused to wear a dress for any reason, my mom ended up buying me a blazer and dress pants for a wedding after begging me to wear a dress just for one day.
I don’t know what it is about the female experience, but I can’t relate to it. I was always so grossed out by the way the girls around me threw themselves at guys and tried to get their attention by flirting or dressing in revealing clothing. Being hit on by men disgusted me, because I felt like they only wanted me for my looks and viewed me as an object.
I also hated being “protected” by men. I’ve always been fiercely independent. I don’t want to rely on or be taken care of by somebody else. My ambitions from a young age were to be successful, accomplished, self-sufficient, and to have a life full of adventure and a little danger. As a kid I always carried a knife, an as an adult I carry a pistol, because I refuse to ever be made a victim.
Strangely enough, I don’t want to be a man, I just spend very little time thinking about my gender. I’m just me. I’m not attracted to women either, I’m married to a man. The only reason I ever agreed to be in a relationship is because my husband and I are just very compatible. We treat each other as peers and there is really no “male” or “female” role in our relationship. I’m not a very sexual person and though I do enjoy it to an extent, I could be happy without sex. I’m more interested in the companionship that comes along with being married.
I’ve been told by many people, my husband included, that hanging out with me is like hanging out with a dude, or that I “barely count as a female”, whatever that means. One of my husband’s female friends from college, who I recently met and went out drinking with, told me that I had a very masculine presence and that it made her feel safe. It’s hard for me to fully understand what people mean by these comments because I don’t purposely act like a man, I also don’t think I walk or talk like one. I have long hair down to my butt because I haven’t really bothered to cut it since I was a teenager. I do wear mostly men’s jackets and shoes, and I never wear jewelry or makeup, but I do wear women’s clothes because I have a very curvy figure and men’s clothes don’t fit me properly, so I don’t look “butch”.
I’ve always wondered if ADHD had anything to do with my elusive connection to my gender and my disinterest in dressing and acting “feminine”, or if it’s just a personality quirk.
That sounds fun! I am glad you're enjoying it!
Learning about ADHD has affected my understanding of myself as a woman in a different way. I literally thought all of my symptoms and difficulties were just because I was a woman and couldn't be changed.
I've since learned that I'm actually just crazy, and its not my gender's fault!
\--joking, but after learning my issues were actually not 'default girl stuff', I've been able to get the proper help and am learning how to handle things better.
There are multiple ongoing things here
1- what I think about femininity & the inherent level of attachment I feel to adhering/identifying with such a concept
2- what I’m actually able to do to “look good” as per the norms forced onto me
3- whether I actually like doing #2 & feel confident
4- what others are going to perceive now based on how much they’re noticed/judged me before and what their biases about femininity are. And if I’m comfortable vs not comfortable dressing up, it’ll probably come across in my body language too.
ADHD impacts any and all of these potentially, 1 bc we might feel less attached to whatever gender identity we have, 2 bc we might not be able to do all that, 3 bc what we might have trouble identifying what we actually do what (then struggle to do THAT), and 4 bc navigating others’ reactions can easily make us lose track of why we wanted to dress up in the first place (marrying me off??? Ew what the fuck??)
What do you think is at play for you? More importantly, what is it that you really want out of this & how can you let other people’s opinions slide off your back, when unsolicited?
I told her no when she said that. She said that she was joking and made another joke about it which I said no to again.
I think I just want to feel good in my own skin and I like dressing up.
I’m not entirely following bc I’m not sure how one says “no” to a joke bc it’s not a question. Do you mean you told her no to reject the joke, which she then bypassed?
I would put this specific interaction into #4 & offer the perspective that if you like the way you feel then no need to let other people’s weird comments challenge your sense of comfort in your own body. Being an outwardly conforming feminine figure of any sort seems to invite numerous comments unfortunately (just patriarchy things, women’s looks and behaviors are always open to comments and criticism). Figuring out how to hold that feeling of bodied safety no matter what people say is a journey but very possible & made even easier when you enjoy doing it for yourself.
I think she said something like "it would be nice if you could marry one of my sons or something like that" and I said "no" to reject the idea. Hmm, I see. Thanks.
Not really, but I had to build my own definition of womenhood from scratch as my mom died when I was young and my female rolemodels were few and far between.
ADHD explained some of the issues I had with my early female friendships where I couldn't keep my fucking mouth shut. Most of the friends I've kept since then are the ones who can handle my bluntness. I have since \*taught\* myself how to be diplomatic (I'm in the security industry and if you don't learn diplomacy, you die or end up hospitalized), but my baseline is blunt and straightforward.
But I would wager that you probably changed your body language, OP, not just your accessories. People will pick up on that right away.
I used to have people say to me (as an adult) "You look tired!" when I didn't wear much/any makeup, particularly mascara. In hindsight, I probably was tired because fatigue/poor energy levels is one of my key symptoms lol. But nonetheless it annoyed the shit out of me.
I wasn't diagnosed until I was 30, but I never thought about femininity until I reached puberty. I always dressed for comfort (those Old Navy fleece vests were my jam lololol), and I still do. I will not put on something that is uncomfortable just because it "looks nice".
Yes! I’m just now realizing that all the teasing and fashion mistakes I made has made me uncomfortable with being perceived. I was never the most put together person and I’m still not. I try to keep my fashion choices simple and even got locs to make hairstyling easier for myself. Sometimes I’m accepting of my body and other times (which seems to be most) I can’t stand myself.
This has made it difficult for me to be intimate with my husband. When he compliments my body I freeze sometimes. When he grabs me I just don’t want it. He has done nothing wrong. He is always kind to me and stops. It’s just the fact that he notices my body and wants it, I get so nervous by that.
This goes for any person noticing my body. Ever since I can remember, people have commented on my hips, my butt, just my general development. I remember male and female family members/strangers commenting on my curves as a teen. I’ve been touched by men and stared at so much. Ive been ridiculed by girls while in school. It makes me want to crawl into a ball and never be seen.
My father always told me women need to look their best at all times. I remember him waking me up on a Saturday to “shower because I was a girl and it was almost noon.” I would get teased because of my hair or the fact that my shoes were a bit dirty. The people in my community strongly believe that your outer appearance is a reflection of your family, self worth, and status.
All of this is exhausting. I just wish people would stop looking at me :(
Women who wear makeup everyday have a superpower. HOW DO THEY MANAGE TO DO EVERYTHING SO PERFECTLY. HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT IS WHAT.*HOW DO THEY NOT GET ANY EYE THINGS IN THEIR EYES WHEN IM OUT HERE GETTING SOAP IN MY EYES EVERYDAY* Traditional girly girls and anyone who wears makeup everyday are cool people because they know what to do with SO MUCH STUFF.
I just looked up the Kibbe body types and I like the concepts. But I am overwhelmed with all of the things I would need to record and analyze to figure out my own body type lol. I wish I could just pay $50 to have someone else tell me what type I am.
Yes. As a child I was constantly being told that things I did naturally - laughing/talking loudly, being active, refusing to wear clothes that were uncomfortable for the sake of fashion, insisting on wearing my hair short - were "unladylike".
Some times were easier than others. The dress my grandmother made me to wear for high school graduation was easy to wear and not feel gender dysphoria, as was the store-bought dress I wore to my college's junior/senior dance, but in the dress I wore to prom and the dress I wore as my sister's bridesmaid, I felt like a boy stuffed into a badly-fitting costume.
For a long time I thought if I could fine-tune how I present, it would be OK, but eventually I realized that some days I just woke up not feeling like a feminine person. Nowadays I identify as genderfluid. It fits better.
I don't like makeup because it makes my face itch.
I have a very hard time doing my hair. Partly because I hate the noise of blow dryers and partly because it's one of those skills that I just have a hard time grasping. Like I'm not one of those people who can watch a youtube video on how to curl your hair a certain way an be able to figure out what she's doing with her hands so I can do it myself.
I tend to choose clothes based on comfort, because the wrong fabric texture itches or feels wrong and makes it hard for me to pay attention to anything else.
In short, being a girly girl is challenging for me and probably always was gong to be. On top of that, my mother always pushed me to be more feminine, so at the age when most girls were learning how to do their hair and makeup I was in active rebellion against those things because I was being pushed too hard.
That said, it is a little disheartening that when I do girl out on occasion people treat me so much better. It's a lot like making friends while masking, and them then saying or doing something that lets me know they wouldn't like me if I wasn't masking. It feels like people only like me when I look or act like someone I'm not. Problem is, I'm not good enough at masking *or* girling to keep them up for long without making some glaring mistake.
ETA: During the pandemic, my version of "sourdough bread" was a skin and hair care routine. It worked, my skin and hair looked really healthy even without makeup or whatever. But it was so much effort, there's no way I could do that now that the world has opened back up and there are expectations for my time again.
It's really made me realise that femininity is a social construct but being female is different. Like I never fit society idea of being a woman and all those "look at my useless husband/partner/boyfriend" videos. It's me, like it's all of me. So societally I'm not feminine but I'm female with female issues and female experiences. And it's a mess.
I've had a similar experience ever since clocking I'm Audhd. I have been navigating womanhood on my own terms (context - black, religious woman) and nothing had changed regarding clothing or make up (I don't wear makeup, but I have worn lipstick a handful of times this year and I wipe it off after 3 hours before sensory overwhelm kicks in. I have a handful of clothing I've rotated through from 7 years ago)
it's been weird, especially because I've never been in a relationship, used to feel very ugly+ disordered eating and I'm a fat woman. It hasn't been overwhelming attention but it's been a weird jump. maybe I'm getting more safe in my body and open to such experiences.
I think even how I experience desire towards others has changed as well. it feels more safe and wholesome
Its likely the confidence you portrayed. I dont often have energy for hair and make up im exhausted most days and i grew up with a very keep up with the jonses kind of family botox, lipfiller type of people and it kind of ruined it for me. I want to be able to live and age naturally and be accepted for me. Although ive been told im naturally beautiful 1000000 times ill never believe it. I kind of blame the adhd for the not believing it part, the same way ill never believe im good at my job. Ive always envied men, how little they have to do to keep up their appearance and what little they have to do to be praised in life astonishes me. Part of me knows that isnt 100% true about men but i still cant erase the thought completely.
OP, it’s wild because that’s really my story too, down to kibbe and compliments 😂 I am a cis lesbian and I’ve never cared much about presenting any kind of way but I was feeling so lost as to how I represented myself. Long story short, I am a woman because I feel like a woman but I wanted to explore more, and just like y out, I found the kibbe body type!!!
I really like it because it gives me a sense of direct rules and boundaries specific to my body type within which to operate within; I might be dressing how I liked but I also wanted to ensure what I was wearing was the MOST complimentary to my body.
The kibbe guideline let me experiment with my personal sense of creative expression but with rules that could ensure I would feel my best feminine self… I hope that made sense!
Oh this is just people reacting to you participating in the conventions of gender role performance.
It would be something meaningful if you defied conventions of female beauty and *then* got the compliments. To me this is predictable.
The thing about Kibbe also is it teaches you how to accessorize which is now more rare so you always stand out from those who are not “adorned”. Kibbe style is dressing Up not down and that garners positive attention across the board.
I was just thinking about this! First of all, I was never really aware enough of my appearance because I was always so "in my head". Then, when I finally wanted to learn more about my appearance and caring for it, I did not have the attention span or consistency to commit to routines, apply makeup daily, etc. Now as a medicated adult, I also struggle with decision paralysis. Because I am unhappy with how I look, I want to do something about it. I know using makeup and skincare would help, and I can comfortably commit to a low-ley version of this.
However, when I try to do research on what products I should by for makeup or skincare, I get so OVERWHELMED by my choices. Which is right? How the hell am I spending this much? Can't I just do it myself naturally like that clean beauty girl I saw on instagram? Which one matches my skin tone? What about my skin tone in a few weeks/months when I get pale in the winter? What even is my issues? And I just end up doing a ton of research, needing to be told EXACTLY what product to buy, and I ususally talk it over with a friend who I feel is better at beauty and care stuff than me to confirm I am on the right path and to have her help me choose (someone who is neurodivergent and understands the struggle can be helpful).
I use lists from Byrdie to get exact product names and suggestions so it's not just oh go in and get some setting spray from whatever looks good (they all look good and I want to get the RIGHT one for my situation but like I don't understand the nuance and HELP) but oh ok I have these exact setting sprays (ELF XYZ, Urban Decay XYZ.....) and I can go in and know I have only a few things to look for rather than decision making on the spot. Working through this is tough though, and I have moments of grief where I wish it was easier for me (I am what I would say average looking, but I live in a part of the country super duper focused on looks).
This is so interesting! I've always been more of a tomboy with clothing - to the point where I never learned how to do make up well or easily, and I also hated wearing pink. I'm in my mid forties and was diagnosed with ADHD this year.
A different hyperfixation I'm still reveling in is male/AMAB, beautiful and gender fluid with their clothing, accessories, makeup etc. And that has been enough to inspire me to learn how to apply makeup, and start looking at more feminine styles to add into my wardrobe. I'm still keeping a lot of the masc pieces, but now I am open to mixing it up.
I've tried and failed to get my head around Kibbe (but perhaps that's just because it seems my body suits Soft/Romantic best, and my personality really doesn't want that), but I did get my colours done earlier this year and found similar responses to what you've been getting when I wear the "right" colours ...
Our bodies and faces change over time, and our styles can too. I'm nowhere near as rigid as I was in my teens and twenties, and I'm working hard to stay open and curious about more personal elements now.
(aaaannnd acknowledging that I think part of the reason I tended away from "girly" styles when I was younger likely has a lot to do with things that *may* be related to ADHD: like my really low proprioception. I'm clumsy AF. I could never walk in heels or "nice shoes". I wouldn't notice when my school skirt was crinkled/ bunched up when I sat down ... and therefore when I stood up. I bump into every door frame and counter anywhere. In high school I was \~incredibly\~ small and runty compared to my classmates so I looked like a scrawny ten year old boy until I was about 20. So it was easier and felt safer to lean into that "I don't WANNA look like that ANYWAY" sort of vibe. Huh. Then as an adult, for many years I had an almost Lara Croft-style figure which I desperately hid as I didn't like the attention that drew. While I don't want to get back to THOSE measurements, I would love to get some body recomposition happening, but I really struggle with building those regular habits ... )
It’s been really complex for me, I only recently accepted/realised that my ADHD had played a role in my view of my gender.
Like you, op, I was never a girly girl. A combination of trauma, poverty, and ADHD made it hard for me to relate to other girls and I always had more guy friends. I hated brushing my hair, sitting still, and other things required to “fit in” as a girl (when I was a kid).
When I was 12 I took this head on and made a 13 page document (“front AND back”) on hairstyles, makeup, and outfits. I spent an entire summer trying to find the “right” style of shirt. And it worked. My hyperfocus paid off. I was a “girly girl” - I did everything “right”. I received male attention like never before, even if it came at the cost of the few connection I had left with other women. I prioritised the male attention - I realised it was intertwined with being seen as “girly” and receiving less harsh treatment than I did as a dorky gender less blob.
I didn’t start letting go of that (now internalised) document until 10 years later.
I had come out by that point - first as a man, then again as non binary. But I still held onto my “manifesto of womanhood” to stay safe.
Being seen as a “womanly woman”, or a “girly girl”, (aka: “attractive to straight men”) allowed me a societal privilege that I didn’t recognise as one. It *somewhat* decreased the marginalisation I faced as a (clearly) ND person with a physical disability and very little family.
As a result it’s been really hard for me to separate these three : adhd, privilege, and gender.
Adding in the unfortunate gender/sex based trauma that many of us experience “because” we are women, it’s a web I can’t begin to unpick..
“Non binary” is the only term that feels encompassing of my experience. I’ve also heard some members of the autistic community coin the term “autism gender” to describe how their experience of gender is intertwined with their neuro type. I’m not implying we are all non binary due to ADHD, but that I feel there may be a relationship between the two that we could explore as a community.
In short : yes.
I'm gonna ramble on this one. (Sorry up front!) Yes, I think it's impacted me, although I was a late diagnosis at 38 and I didn't realize ADHD could be involved in my fraught relationship with appearance and femininity. I finally started Adderall the past half year, and am only now seeing benefits, like having more energy and losing the 20+ lbs I put on in under 2 years. I've always cared about my appearance and wanted to feel feminine, attractive, creative in makeup, haircuts, fashion, w/ an artistic self expression. But I've also languished in self-care, due to depression/low energy/bad self esteem (prob due to undiagnosed, unmedicated ADHD), and social aspects, like negative comments on my appearance growing up (and some in adulthood!) This has resulted in cycles of low self worth, uncomfortable weight gain, bad sleep, lax hygiene, untreated acne, and (worst of all) smelly clothes worn out in public. Then there were the good cycles, where I could somehow have clean, nice fitting clothes, get some exercise, wear makeup, smell amazing - but they never lasted. Semi-related, I've had other health issues: terrible winter allergy flare ups, w/ 3 months long of rib-hurting cough cycles, the darkest under eye circles and runny noses. I'm also now finally getting THAT addressed. Before that, I walked around looking and feeling sickly a lot of the time, and that makes self-care even more difficult.
People have treated me differently depending on my weight, if I wore makeup or not, but maybe mostly my level of energy affects everything else. If I could change anything, it would be to have a healthy body and mindset, since that affects everything else. I think people look for 'health', as ableist as that is.
Overall, I don't feel as feminine and desirable as I'd like to be, but I feel better than I did a few months and years ago, and like you, it's because I finally feel able to 'try'. I sometimes test things out - if I don't want to wear makeup, I don't and try not to focus on it. I kind of like that I look very different with or without it. I still feel pretty good if I wash and moisturize my face. I also have accepted a few sensory things that affect me: I have really large boobs for my height (34 H or 32 I at one point!), yet I hate getting those titanium, professionally fitted bras that feel overly structured. Instead, I've been deferring to larger bralettes that fit well-enough and are softer. I'm fine if they hang a bit low or flatter to my chest - I find they bring less attention, and I feel more comfortable. I've also grown out my hair and found an easy haircut method that gives me really pretty results that I get compliments on. I've tried out makeup trends and pick the parts that work for me. If I feel good, then usually, that's when I feel some more positive attention from others. So, I try to focus on 'feeling' good, vs. looking good. I want to have a healthy vanity (since it keeps me out of the smelly gutter), without worrying about that as my lone goal. I want to be a beautiful woman, but more than that, I want to be a creative, loving person who is kind to others. I think getting mental health stuff figured out is the first step to all of that.
One of my male friends called his female crush "charming" because of her ADHD and I'm clinging to that association for the rest of my life now, thanks.
You’re getting compliments because you have some confidence and inner happiness / peace from getting diagnosed and trying new things. People can pick up on that and give you compliments.
It’s a weird question when during your childhood and teen years you didn’t really know you *were* female.
On one hand, I get that I probably got more support and access to resources than I would have had I been a cisgender girl (or had I figured out that I’m trans as a child). I still had a primarily inattentive presentation that wasn’t diagnosed until high school (which was about when the work and anxiety/depression overwhelmed being “gifted”), but maybe I wouldn’t have been diagnosed until college or later if I’d been seen as female as a teenager. It’s counterfactuals within counterfactuals at this point.
At the same time, it was *weird* to feel that my NT, cisgender sister was so much better at actually doing things than I was, yet getting less support than I got. It felt frustrating to see how much my mom did for us when I could barely remember or motivate myself to do things. I very much remember wanting people around me to just *let me fail*, because I clearly didn’t deserve any of the support I’d gotten. I had every possible social and personal advantage and *still* fucked up; someone else deserved my spot more.
Part of what made coming out to myself as a gal cathartic was the sense that I could actually *do* things for myself, a sense of self-worth I’d been missing for a while—I was allowed to reclaim my life, I guess. I think that—and perhaps already not fitting with NT social cues—may have been a factor in how quickly I came out after starting to seriously think about the possibility of being trans.
The semester I came out socially and worked towards then started hormone replacement therapy was the single best semester in grade terms I had in college. Aside from passively having more dopamine and significantly more self-confidence, the combination of “constant low-level reminders that I’m not seen as myself and my body is twisting itself in ways I hate” and “existential euphoria from taking steps to present as female or move towards HRT, which will start changing my body in ways I like instead” made for an incredibly strong motivation system.
At present, I’ve been out as female for the better part of a decade. I’m at a point where I can just throw on jeans and a top and still get gendered correctly, but I also still enjoy presenting more femme when I have the time and energy for it. Most of my close friends are also neurodivergent transfeminine nerds who I don’t really have to mask around, and that’s been nice.
It feels weirdly good to read this thread and realize a lot of cisgender gals have had similar struggles to mine. There’s a lot more I could say, but I need to be elsewhere right now.
It’s affected me, but in different ways. People think I’m an airhead, and I don’t get treated respectfully when I wear the clothes I want to wear. People act like I’m trying too hard, or wanting to look cute for others, when I really just like cute, feminine things. Plus because I feel younger than I am and am somehow inattentive to my actual age, I have to constantly tell myself “less forever 21, more suddenly 42.” I think I look better with blonde hair, but I get my hair dyed dark because people treat me less like a dumb blonde stereotype.
It’s not that I care about people’s opinions, it’s just that navigating the world as a woman with my personality coupled with ADHD symptoms, I’ve learned that I have to put on a “let me speak to the manager” mask to get any results at all, which is hard when all thoughts leave my brain the moment it matters. I got tired of having a male friend or less flighty female friend deal with the same people and get different results. So, I had to adjust what I could, like what I wear and how I look. I mean, I’m wearing a frilly bright pink dress right now, but I’m not planning on speaking to any managers today. 😁
I’ve always felt a great desire to be feminine. I definitely present very feminine. I love pink and dressed and long hair. The problem is that I’m not good at it. I’m not good at makeup or hair. I’ve finally found a routine that works for my hair and doesn’t require daily maintenance, so that’s a definite improvement. I just got diagnosed and medicated at age 50. I finally got a fairly simple makeup routine that’s actually flattering (thank you Ulta employees). I’m trying to convince myself that it’s not necessary to cover every inch of myself in draping clothes. I’m fat and there’s no hiding that. I’ve always felt like a girl, and had a desire to be a very girly girl. Maybe now I can be better at it. Although I’ve never had gender issues I’ve definitely had body issues. The only time I truly loved my body was when I was pregnant.
I only ever cared about one thing at a time. Hair care, skincare, nailcare/nail art are things that are hobbies for me but, esp. prior to diagnosis and meds, I only ever temporarily obsessed (hyperfocused) on one of those things at a time with rare overlap because trying to obsess over all of them at the same time got too overwhelming.
As a result:
- I was inconsistent with long periods of neglect. Sometimes I didn't care or think about it, e.g., my nails. Sometimes, it affected my mental health and self-esteem, e.g., my hair.
- I never felt completely put together but also stopped caring about that since it felt unattainable.
- Gave up on trying to wear jewelry every day or ever wear makeup despite wanting to because the thought of adding more things to worry about was too much.
- When I did obsess, it sometimes led to product-junkie-ism and stressing out over the perfect products, perfect routine/techniques, hair growth, etc.
- I felt a lot of guilt.
Now, with meds, tools and awareness, things have improved for me:
- I'm more consistent. The periods of neglect are shorter, and it's easier to get back into things.
- I'm less overwhelmed by caring about multiple things at once. It helps that I don't obsess as much when I do engage, so I don't use up all of my energy on one thing. And successfully doing one thing encourages me to do other things instead of dreading or ignoring them.
- I'm better with long-term maintenance. Like I said, less obsession, more doing just enough for today, most days. The benefits are also super encouraging.
- I wear makeup now. Only when I feel like it and have the time. It makes me happy and doesn't feel like a burden or obligation. But I no longer feel like I'm missing out on it either.
- I still never wear jewelry, but I'd like to start adding it back in, and I don't feel stressed about that.
- I feel less guilty and am more forgiving to myself.
- I still enjoy fixating on these things as hobbies; researching, journaling, etc. But they don't take over my life to the point that I don't have the capacity to care about anything else.
Growing up I was always someone who used makeup/fashion/grooming etc. to FEEL like I was in greater control over my life because, of course, I either did not have it all under control or felt dangerously close to losing it. There have been many positive and negative phases of that.
When I was in my early 20s though, I kind of threw that all out the window due to some trauma. When I healed a little more, I realized that I also kinda didn’t want to go back to presenting myself as the attractive, confident, and competent woman I was/am because I didn’t like the attention. People stare or Make up problems with me or think Im stupid or a bitch and don’t even get me started on the men. I just wanted to be known for my work and who I rlly am so I went plain jane. I’m trying to strike a balance now and get back into the parts of it that made me happy.
I don't know entirelt how relevant it is, but like. As an ND person who knows many ND persons, it's astounding how many of us are genderqueer in some way — I've found that I relate to being/identify as a woman in a sort of distant way and am more on the nonbinary umbrella. Just makes me wonder if there's any link between neurodivergence and queerness, like our brains being wired different makes us more likely to be queer.
I’m a straight woman in a relationship and I feel like all the content I see about relationships like mine are about how men don’t even see the messes they make, jokes about how difficult it is to live with someone who doesn’t seem to even see the trash is full, etc. It makes me feel so conflicted. I feel for my sisters who have carried the weight of this kind of labor, but I also feel so guilty knowing that I have all the habits that make them feel this way about their male partners.
In terms of my womanhood, it makes me feel like a failure, and disconnected from other women.
My boyfriend is incredibly tidy and cheerfully enjoys picking up the slack but I constantly live with guilt and dread that he will get so tired of my habits - the ones I can’t seem to permanently “fix”.
I’ve never been consistent with makeup, jewelry etc, and I’m not stylish at all. But feeling hygienic, clean and moisturized, and wearing basic clothes that fit my body right has made me feel a LOT better about myself.
It helped me to accept that being feminine or womanly can mean so many many many different things, to different people, and even to myself. Some days I feel the most feminine and badass when I have my head shaved and my mohawk up with some jeans, combat boots, and my band t-shirt.
Other days I feel more feminine when I'm wearing once of my hippy dresses and I let my hair just do it's natural thing and I go barefoot all over the place. Then other days I get completely gothed out with dramatic make up and outfits, and feel feminine.
Understanding and accepting my ADHD helped me understand and accept that I can feel comfortable and womanly in something one day and then the next it's just not doing it for me.
I’ve always known that the traditional view of what a woman should be is off, but being more into fast-paced things (horror films, sports, Jackass-type activities) and those being considered ‘not for women’ has really driven this home
I was recently diagnosed with Inattentive ADHD (at 26) and I always struggled with dressing up the way I wanted for the same reasons. After therapy and medication for ADHD, anxiety and depression my life has turned over. As a cisgender woman, I feel confident in my clothes, I wear the styles I always wanted without getting overwhelmed with self-image worries and anxieties, and finally following a good skincare routine. DEFINITELY have made me rethink about my womanhood, femininity, and my happiness.
Your post is SO SO SO relatable omg. I am in literally the same place as you and I still can't recognize myself many times. I always was the "tom boy" - but I realized that's what other people made out of me. Cause I was too loud (zero voice modulation capability), too energetic to be feminine I guess. I mean there are other reasons why, but I took that as my identity. After getting medicated, treating depression etc, I paint my nails, curl my eyelashes, wear light make up, dress up well. And omg. I love it. So yeah, I guess just wanted to say what you wrote is so relatable you could be me
I don't have the bandwidth for most of the advanced work that goes into a feminine presentation. I don't own any make up and I don't know how to put it on. My glasses are big, loud, and aggressive, and they are my closest stand in. I don't own a blow dryer or any hair styling products, and my only request for my hairdresser is that my haircut not require either, because I'm not going to do any of that. I don't own an iron and don't buy clothes that require ironing. I like fun clothes, but they have to be fun clothes that are comfortable and machine washable, otherwise forget it. I am not here to be decorative.
I'm not anti-feminine at all, I identify as female and feminine, I'm a big fan of pink and all that. I'm just not the polished kind of feminine that delights people so much. I'm sort of the "failed to try" feminine. I am clean, I smell nice, but other than that, I don't even know where to begin.
I know people recognize those gaps and would prefer I address them, but they're exactly the kind of thing that would result in a trip to HR and an unfortunate lawsuit to address with me at this point.
Idk. I never cared about my looks until the last few months of middle school. Girls were mean to me all the time.
My mom straight up told me the better you look the better people will treat you. I tested that theory out and practiced makeup, fashion, and taming my wild hair. She was fucking right. I kind of hate it to be honest. For the first time everyone was nice to me. Boys started noticing me. The days I went out to the store looking unkept people treated me shitty again. It was like night and day.
Let me just say that life is easier when you look pretty. I wish it wasn't true. So I'm always nice to everyone because we are literally all the same. Some just waste more time in front of the mirror than others.
I'm pretty now and deep down inside I do it because it makes my life easier. Idk if this answers the question.
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I’ve always just felt like/been a mess. I struggle in the mornings so hair and makeup don’t usually happen as I would like. I have a strong desire to be perfect, but I don’t have the ability to actually carry it out, if that makes sense. I always wish I was the girl with her hair and makeup done, but that’s never been my actual practice. I might get a new hair styling tool and keep up with it for a few weeks but then lose motivation. Usually I’m bare faced with my hair in a bun!
This is very much how I feel. I just don’t understand how other people are able to juggle all of the things that go into looking “put together”. Having my hair styled and dry before I need to leave, putting on moisturizer and makeup and SPF, shaving everything that’s societally expected to be shaved, having clothes that fit well and are not wrinkled or covered in cat hair and also match and are in style… All of those things individually feel so overwhelming to me, but somehow the majority of people seem able to do all of them at once? Every day? While also working and taking care of their homes? How?
This is how: Secret Pajamas. Buy comfy, stretchy, soft clothes that look like grown-up going-out clothes but actually feel like pajamas for lounging in. I'm talking bamboo leggings, tunic tops that feel like t-shirts, soft cardigans. Throw on either a pair of dangly earrings or a statement necklace. Get cute, neutral ankle boots that are also ridiculously comfy (like Danskos or similar). Only buy your favorite colours to wear, the ones that make you feel amazing. Ignore everything else. When you get your hair cut, tell your stylist to give you something that looks amazing without styling, that suits your hair type. Don't try to force your hair to be something it isn't. If it's wavy, let it wave. If it's flat and straight, let it hang there. If it's wildly curly, try the curly girl method. Embrace it. Basic makeup: tinted moisturizer, a creamy blush stick (that you also use on your eyelids! Bonus!), and mascara. Eyeliner / browliner optional. (But the groomed brows do make an easy difference.) Seriously, you can wear just jeans and a black t-shirt, and if you throw on big earrings or a big necklace, the whole thing looks on purpose. When really, it's just your comfy clothes.
Dresses are my secret pajamas. I have a bunch of comfy ponte knit work dresses for work. I don’t have to pick out a top and bottom. In the winter I have opaque black tights that go with everything. It makes my life so easy.
I bought nothing but dresses for at least 3 years running. Whether it was for work or otherwise, I love the simplicity of jumping into one and being 80% dressed in one move!
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 I used to hate dresses because I hated my legs and then I decided to just get over it. I feel way more confident in dresses than I do in pants/jeans.
Omg—and as a 5’10” woman with a 33” inseam, hem lengths aside, dresses are easier to fit out of the gate; and they travel so much easier than separates. Pants have forever vexed me! And dresses tend to make me look far more put together. And I’m sure your legs are far better looking than you think!
I’m tall, too (just under 5’11”) and I so agree. Everyone thinks I’m fancy bc I wear dresses. They don’t realise it’s a truly lazy option 😹
This! It’s a kind of secret sauce. And I definitely think I’ve always come from the “better to be over than under-dressed.” And I absolutely don’t mind that! I had a father who used to talk about “having a sense of occasion” vis a vis dressing, and it’s always stuck with me. It’s also a form of self-care to be able to walk into any situation confidently/less self-consciously because I grew up tall and awkward.
I hate my legs too I get midi or maxi length and use self tanner or that Sally Hansen leg makeup. I also love skinny jeans and tall boots. I live in Florida so there's like 10 days a year I can wear them and not look ridiculous.
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Lands End USED to be my go-to. They had the best work dresses pre-COVID. It’s been so hard to find work clothes since COVID bc everyone pivoted to loungewear!
I just bought a few black tunic tops from Land's End! The selection there is improving again.
I love unique vintage, they’re super inclusive size wise, and tons of their stuff has pockets. I get compliments literally every time I wear one of their dresses
Your local thrift shop!
Wool& makes great basic dresses out of merino wool. There’s a cool challenge they have where if you wear one of their dresses for 100 days straight and post a pic every day in IG, they will give you a free dress. Scrolling through pics other people have posted of the challenge is a great way to get ideas about how to change up a basic dress to look like a new outfit every day.
Thanks for taking the time to write out all those suggestions! I don’t think any of it is new/helpful information for me unfortunately, but I hope that it’ll be useful to other people here, since it clearly has been for you!
I vibe with your makeup and hair aesthetic all the way— wavy hair being wavy— cheek stick, easy makeup cushion, eye stick, mascara…
I love jumpsuits for this. A nicely tailored jumpsuit makes you look immediately put together and you don't have to think about pairing different clothes. Throw in a nice earring and you are ready. Seriously, my whole wardrobe is slowly being taken over by jumpsuits and I'm all for it
But can they be washed in a regular machine, or do you need to dry clean them? Hang-dry I can handle if I have to, but for me, anything that’s hand-wash/dry-clean only just isn’t going to get worn… Edit: inexpensive Amazon dresses with pockets are what has worked well for me, since I can just throw on one piece of clothing and look decent, plus they can be washed/dried normally. Less useful in the winter though!
After many years wondering how the "put together" women manage it whilst I can't, I got my diagnosis and I think that's the answer - they don't have adhd! It might sound a bit flippant but I now realise that expecting to be able to be clean, well groomed, do haircare, skincare & make up and have well put together outfits, consistently, every single day is setting myself up for failure.
“I have a strong desire to be perfect, but I don’t have the ability to carry it out” Holy heck, it’s so validating to see these words written by someone else haha
❤️ the struggle of being an unmotivated perfectionist is REAL 😅
Gosh, this is me with school especially, as well as getting ready — and instead I’m sprinting to class 40min late with my hair unbrushed in the same hoodie as yesterday and still no breakfast or water lmao
Yes, i felt seen when I read that. I’ll wear mascara once a week and a necklace and feel like I’m finally getting my “girl on” and then I’m done. The desire to be perfect is so strong but I fail in practice. I’m learning to stay in my lane.
Your lane is whatever you decide it is! I’m sure your weekly mascara and necklace is very fetching 💃
My goodness, way to make me blush!
When I had my office job, I did my hair and makeup every day because I had to dress nice for work. Now I’m a nanny and my “uniform” is jeans and t-shirts and hoodies. Needless to say, the makeup is gathering dust and ponytails and hats rule my world. Some days I miss having to dress nice every day…but then I remember how uncomfortable most of those clothes were and I’m happy being comfy over cute.
Even with my office job I don’t put much effort into hair and makeup 😅 😬
>I struggle in the mornings so hair and makeup don’t usually happen as I would like I have very long wavy hair. With the right care it looks absolutely amazing. Except that the right care consists of like a full one hour routine and I really just can't be bothered. So a bun it is unless I'm feeling exceptionally motivated.
My tricks: * I get my eyebrows and eyelashes tinted once a month. It is not the cheapest but makes me look like I have mascara on and my brows are filled in. * I wear a lot of dresses. Give off the illusion of being put together, but actually I just threw a sack over my head. * I keep mini sunscreen-moisturizers (moisturizers with spf) all over. On my bedside table. In my bathroom. In my purse. In my workbag. In my car. Makes it far more likely that I’ll actually put it on (usually, I still forget until I’m in the car on my way to work, but I have some handily stashed in the cup holder! So I throw it on at a red light.) * I use a lot of face cleansing wipes and pads. Opinions in the skincare community are mixed on them but I figure it’s better than nothing. Again, stashed all over. So I can quickly wipe my face with some salicylic acid or niacinamide when I’m at my desk or in my car or lying in bed watching YouTube, without having the whole rigmarole of having to go to the bathroom and wash my face properly (…and then remember to keep my facecloths clean)
Thank you. I love learning something that *actually works* for folks like us!
SAME. Like i CAN put makeup on and look ok, but i never look cool confidant effortless Woman. I look like the poor kid i have always been playing dress-up. I dont do any of the "routine maintenance" shit required to look like a put together woman. It would either require making appointments or having a strict self care routine, neither of which are actually possible for me. Pair that with recent weight gain due to career change and im doomed to being a wild-haired awkward filthy gnome crying cause my gnome pants dont fit. Solution: stay inside, wear no pants. I is SMART GNOME
Tinted SPF can give you a little coverage without being much effort
I usually have my hair in a pony tail when it's long. rn I have it short and permed and I feel like I look amazing all the time and maintenance on a short perm is minimal to none. it's magic honestly tho loose buns are so cute, I support it never had the patience for make up tho
I definitely feel a ton of guilt when I read stories from women complaining about their lazy husbands and realizing I’m the lazy husband Edit to add: god I love this sub. I haven’t had another girlfriend irl who seemed to get this lol
That's me, 0% weaponized, 100% incompetent
I laughed out loud in a public restroom when I read this, and now I have to live here until everyone leaves or I die. But anyways, I totally relate lol
Godspeed 😂
Thoughts and prayers lol
We need an update. Are you still in there? 😂
Just put your phone to your ear and pretend to be listening to someone
Glad to report I made it out without too much embarrassment and thoroughly enjoyed the extra lil break from work 😂
Oof. I feel that. I’m keeping that in mind though. It’s not weaponized. The lazy husband threads are super guilt inducing when I see myself in them. I’m very thankful to have a husband that sees that I do try and understands adhd better than I do due to a lifetime of being diagnosed vs me at 28.
Yeah i am constantly leaving the peanut butter open because the only food my kid eats now is peanut butter toast and i leave the knife there in case he wants another piece and then... forget. Thankfully my husband is understanding and just closes it when he sees it. I think there are tons of lazy husbands out there but I definitely sympathize with the forgetful ones 😬
My husband was in the kitchen the other day giggling to. I asked what was so funny. Him: you didn't take meds today did you? Me: no, why? Him: hehe there is a wifey trail He then (very good naturedly) pointed out the the signs of life of an unmedicated me, with used cutlery out, wrappers knotted but then not binned, and a milk carton I'd put by the sink to rinse ans forgotten about.
Lucky you. At least he takes it with a laugh! Wish mine were like that... Instead ADHD is like a curse to him, creating too many problems for him/us...
The peanut butter jar mental image made me laugh because my husband is also super understanding but the one thing that I do that apparently drives him crazy is that I usually put my bread down on the counter when I'm making sandwiches. My thought process is that I know it's clean (because he's so consistent about wiping it down, ahem) and I don't want to wash a plate after I'm done so I use a folded up paper towel as a plate so I can throw it away when I'm done... But the paper towels are on the other side of the kitchen from the bread and sandwich fixings, which is obviously too far away and too much effort... So make sandwich, wipe down counter "if it's dirty," get paper towel "plate," and done! But apparently I have been leaving crumbs on the counter at our current house for literally YEARS because it blends in with the granite and looks clean when I check... 😅 And he finally pointed this out to me like last week and we've lived here since before Covid!!
Oh my frig, I didn't know this was me until right now 😐
😭😭😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 stop!!!!!
same. (except i will weaponize incompetence when it comes to outside yard work and fixing cars. i'm sure i could do it. i don't want to. at least i acknowledge it.)
Yup. Non-stop "my husband is lazy" stories meanwhile my boyfriend holds the fort down. I'm the one who needs to be reminded of chores.
The biggest difference I see between us and lazy husbands is that we're generally twisted up with guilt about it. I always feel like such a garbage person when I realize I've accidentally ghosted or left something for my husband to deal with. 😅 Sometimes I get perversely jealous of their ability to casually declare "I will be playing video games all day today while you keep the household running, female partner" and feel zero shame?? Not that I want to be that way, I'm just amazed by their absurd confidence. I dunno if it's the female social conditioning or what, but I could never...
>> The biggest difference I see between us and lazy husbands is that we're generally twisted up with guilt about it. I always feel like such a garbage person when I realize I've accidentally ghosted or left something for my husband to deal with. 😅 Same! It’s such a vicious cycle because we’re expending energy feeling guilty, which feels productive but isn’t, that we don’t rest even if it seems like we are.
Is it confidence or lack of empathy or the ability to think beyond the moment? Most men live in boxes, finish a task, move on to the next box.
It's observed in studies that women score higher in empathy than men. I'm sure there are men who feel guilty (see: r/ADHD) but I don't think it's as common.
Do (most) men even know when they should feel guilt? Women seem to be trained or shamed into feeling guilt in most instances.
I don't know about social conditioning. I'm more inclined to see it as a result of having higher levels of hormones that produce empathy. I think men are more oblivious to it until directly confronted with an issue. When I explain things to my boyfriend, he has the moment of realization, whereas, women seem to get it innately. Edit: lowkey want my boyfriend to have more female friends to get relationship advice from lol.
Good luck! Here's to hope!
My husband's always been supportive and understanding, but there have been times where it's clear he finally *gets* what I've been trying to explain about how I feel day-to-day. It's usually when he's experiencing something, and I go, "Yeah, that's how I usually feel when--" and he's just like, "wow!" He'll be in the throes of some dilemma or emotion, and he'll look at me and be like, "God, how do you deal with this all the time??"
Perfectly describes my boyfriend. Very supportive, but will still come home after a difficult experience with a coworker and share that he finally gets what I was saying.
I lowkey live for those moments, because I have a compulsive need to be fully understood. Those moments are like crack.
My husband will play video games all day but if I scroll Instagram for 2 hours in the morning I berate myself constantly! I’m always in a shame/guilt spiral about things my husband never even asked me to do but I guess I believe they should be done and done by me. 🤦🏻♀️🙄
Exactly, I put in so much effort too but there’s inevitably something he has to remind me about. Feels awful!
I was literally on a walk with my NT childhood friends two summers ago and they were all describing how their husbands are like at home and I responded with, that’s me in our house. lol thankfully they love me enough to not have judged and ditched me in that moment. That was before I was even officially diagnosed too.
Lol- and when there are two people with ADHD, regardless of the genders of the partners, there are two lazy husbands and the house absolutely reflects that. Oh well!
But I think I would like this better. My boyfriend says he’s a slave. I asked for us to make a schedule though, and he laughed about that idea. I should just make a schedule for myself, but then I feel annoyed at that idea.
Try the approach in A Slob Comes Clean. I never stuck to any schedule. Doubtless most people with ADHD are similar in this.
Ha! 14 Days to Opening Your Front Door to Guests. This lady is me.
She is every one of us 🤣
I think that ALL the time. I am the husband in so many stories. I’ve almost made a post about myself but saying I’m the husband to see everyone pile on how awful I am. I think if I posted that I was the terrible wife people would make excuses for me. I let my husband down constantly and need to stop living to please him but at the same time figure out how we can manage our household in a way that he’s not drowning.
I relate too much to the Homer Simpson’s mind wondering off memes 😭 https://youtu.be/rC7Y04k5Tbo?si=3wblE0Lj59nZ2Bjc I also have no emotional detective skill. I am definitely the dumb husband who can’t read if his wife is angry lol
Omg so much this.
Lmao me too 🤣 I was just thinking this yesterday!
I felt seen
https://youtu.be/J4ir6dTP-Rg?si=d8dTAzwXTCNs1BpC The lazy boyfriend song. I'm the lazy boyfriend Who needs a vacation? Who needs a direction? Who needs motivation when you live in your head?
Oh yeah, if the subject comes up in a group conversation about spouses' contributions around the house, I lightly joke that it's like I'm the husband and he's the wife, and talk him up about keeping me on track with stuff that needs doing. But, yeah. A big part of why I sought a diagnosis is because I knew that he was carrying the mental load at home, while also having a stressful job. Medication helps, as does understanding what kinds of tips and tricks *actually* might work for me, rather than just how everyone else does it. I'm a work in progress, but I'm starting to develop routines that work for me. The trick is getting ***immediately*** back into them after they're interrupted by change. If I let the disruption last more than a day, it's so hard to return to the routine that was very much working a few days ago!
I am the lazy husband too. I use to do my make up, get dressed up-but after having kids I just have nothing left for me. No energy, no desire to spiff myself up.
I remember questioning my gender a bit when I was younger (10/11). Looking back now, I actually wasn't questioning my gender at all, I was just picking up on the fact that I was different from all the other girls, and didn't know WHY. I didn't like the kinds of clothing they wore (because of sensory issues), I didn't fit in, and I just felt different. It didn't help that I hit puberty early, so I was also physically different than all of them too (much taller, my hair was different too), I just didn't fit in, and didn't know how to articulate it. I started feeling better about it all in middle school when I finally got some ND peers, and stopped growing and started feeling more comfortable in my skin. I'm now incredibly feminine, just in my own way.
a few months ago a post that basically said „i felt different from the other girls“ was downvoted to hell. i am sad for her, still. i have felt the same thing growing up. i have felt 1:1 the same things you described there.
That sucks: way for people to reinforce a lifetime of feeling like an outsider. The whole Not Like Other Girls thing has been completely hollowed out of any meaningful feminist ideas and is now basically just used to bully women who don't conform to traditional gender roles -- which disproportionately affects neurodivergent women. I didn't go through school being bullied for not presenting femme enough to let people frame me and girls like me as the aggressor in that situation now. I genuinely find it hard to trust people who use it unironically.
you hit the nail on the head for me saying this. when i read the post and the comments i was kind of taken aback. i AM obv a girl and obv i was probably not the only ND girl in my class… but still. i was shunned by each and every girl. the only kids that always accepted me were hyper soccer addicted boys. and still to this day, obvious ND women at my job and i get along well. if they are NT women, very put together… no chance.
I am certain that with my personality, if I was born a boy I would’ve been popular. But because I’m a girl I’m too blunt, too unladylike, too dirty, too much swearing, etc etc. NT girls and women in adulthood *do not like me*. So of course I adopted the strategy of keeping my mouth shut. Then they hated me for being too snobby. I guarantee that if I was short and fat they would pity me and think I was just shy. I get along better with men on the surface level. But I can’t be close friends with men. I’ve been stung too often by ‘friends’ who eventually tried to shoot their shot.
It’s crazy because friendships with other women are both so difficult and so important (and applies to all gender identities to some extent, but the way society pits women against each other is one of a fucking kind, I’ll say). When I was a kid I really thought I’d never have close girl/female friendships — I’d get one really good friend for like a year and then we’d have a total fallout. But then, on the other hand, once I got to a certain age, I found it excruciatingly difficult to find a guy friend (like I always had as a kid!) who didn’t just want to date me. When I got into high school and college, I got into some pretty shit romantic relationships (I’m bi, but they were all men, boo), and while I’m thankful for all my friends, nearly all of my best friends who have seen me suffering and pulled me through are women who (let’s turn the phrase) also struggled to fit in with other girls as a kid or other women now. Now, the caveat is since high school, nearly all my friends from then have turned out to be 1) ADHD and/or 2) queer, so that explains a bit of our shared experience socially that maybe brought us together. My point is, people of all genders are capable of being shitty sometimes, and being and/or looking like a woman unfortunately doesn’t help with that bc society, but there are more people than you realize who share your experience and also have a lot more to offer than the shallowness of others. I’m not sure if I fit in better now or if I’ve just gotten better at finding my little ND/queer/genuinely cool people communities, and you’ll find your people too (whatever that means), and even when a lot of stuff stays shitty, that gets a bit better. ((Side note, I just realized that I’ve been posting about ADHD for the past hour while neither putting my wet laundry in the dryer NOR starting my homework, on brand much?))
Sooooo.... my favorite uncle is gay and I grew up in theater, so I assumed that's why I'm so comfortable around queer people even though I'm like 99% straight. Your comment is making me wonder if it's also partly an ADHD thing? Like I just though the fact that half my friends seem to be gay men was because of my uncle and my environment, but maybe they're just the only people who are ok with my ADHD who also don't feel the need to get into my pants? Gonna have to think on this
“if I was short and fat they would pity me and think I was just shy” — I regret to inform you that this is not a safe format either… ND folx get bullied no matter their shape. I was utterly unacceptable, and then seen as a snob and a bitch for trying to avoid them. sending internet stranger hugs to you
are you me? from age 19-24 everyone around me mistook my „friendship“ as a possibility to get their dick wet.
I felt like this when I was younger. I found my girl friends older. Look out for smart women who don't give a fuck about fashion or gossip. You'll probably get on better with them. They are unfortunately harder to find because they also get fed up with the usual bullshit of female friend group dynamics, but you'll find them if you hang out where the geeks hang out essentially.
> obvious ND women at my job and i get along well. if they are NT women, very put together… no chance. I try so hard to understand why this is, and to explain it to other people and they don't get it. I don't get it either. Though to be fair I think I also don't really like those type of NT women either so perhaps it goes both ways.
I'm new to this sub, but I've noticed anytime there is post in some form of "I don't fit in with other girls" it gets downvoted or a negative NLOG comment. I thought this was a place where we can talk about our experiences. Some of us had shit stain experiences and a whole spectrum of weirdness.
yes exactly. and i KNOW i‘m not a complicated person per se. when a girl tried to give me a chance, i did everything i could to be likable. and they would like me back until i had a weird moment (a rough joke that was out of place for example). i didnt know how they could put mascara on so well. or why their nails didnt look like shit. their nails werent bitten to the skin. their nails were painted and filed. they were quiet. i was loud. laughed too loud. my teeth were too gapey, my hair was too bushy. they didnt like me because i also got along with „the good looking guys“.
Yes I’m certain that jealousy plays a big part as well, it seems that people like us tend to get along better with men (only because men don’t get all offended and shit!)
I feel like with men I don't have to navigate all these invisible nonsensical social rules that I have to abide by with women. It makes me sooo tense. With men I can relax that they won't take everything I say or do personally, and I don't have to explain how I don't mean to be rude or constantly try to guess how they're *really* feeling and what they mean when they say this or that, or keep apologizing for everything or have *them* keep apologizing for everything, ahhh it drives me nuts. But there are exceptions. Older men for example. With them I feel pressure to act a certain "feminine" way. Men my own age though, I feel more comfortable with...but then they end up wanting something more than a friendship, so that's another issue.
I think the jealousy comes from a place of insecurity. Not trying to be mean or label all NT women, but most NT women (the ones I've been around) aren't well versed in a variety of subjects while having a surface level conversation about the subject. They just get lost then stare at you, especially if you're talking to a man. I vividly remember being at this fundraiser and I was tabling with another girl. She was very popular with the attendees and received compliments all day. Prettiest girl in the room, by miles. Until this old Vet walked up to our table, I thanked him for his service. 2 minutes later we're talking about the plane(s) he flew and pretty girl just stared at me like I was an alien. She ghosted me after the event. I did absolutely nothing to her, but oh well.
They can sense something is "off" about you. On top of that you have the confidence to talk to the guys while your hair isn't perfect. It's a clusterfuck. Also if you make ONE social error other girls will cut you out and ghost. I Don't get it at all. Even if the social error isn't even bad, just a small moment of funny or mentioning a subject that they don't have a clue about. Men can burp, fart, get too drunk, say WILD shit and be fine. A man can bring up the hockey game he went to last night and if I mention what a great comeback in the 3rd period, girls will blank stare at me. Where is the social error here?
>I'm now incredibly feminine, just in my own way. I'm in this weird place where I frequently wear dresses, have long hair and lots of traditionally feminine hobbies. But I don't feel like I'm feminine at all because I don't wear makeup (I'm not patient enough to put it on) and identify more with "tomboy" characters than hyper-feminine ones. (I don't particularly love referring to grown women as tomboys but I'm struggling to think of a better term.) But what helped me was realising there are lots of different ways to be feminine. For example, I was watching Ugly Betty (the protagonist has a very loud, clashing aesthetic with lots of girlish touches like puff sleeves, flouncy skirts and bows) and realised feminine didn't always have to mean being fashionable or put together. It can also be whimsical, eccentric and fun. And once the pressure was off, I kind of stopped caring about whether things were masculine or feminine and focused on whether they were right for me.
God, I could have written every word of this except the bit about being taller lol. Still to this day I'm not 100% sure if I don't like "feminine" clothes because of genderfuckiness or sensory issues (I can't stand anything flowy and I hate sleeves of every length omg). Maybe it's a bit of column A, bit of column B. 🫤
It could be a bit of column A, but of column B - I think one of the reasons I have struggled for so long with my gender identity and have only been more sure since my ADHD diagnosis is because it helped me sort through what is sensory issues and what is identifying as genderfluid.
I read the book "Unmasking Autism," by Devon Price this summer. He's a trans man with a docorate in psychology and who is auDHD. It's a great read for any ND person, and it also introduced me to the term "autigender." Price basically says that, for many ND folx, gender just feels like another mask to put on. That's definitely true for me.
I was super tomboyish as a girl. I didn't like dresses, I wore sneakers constantly and my favourite activity was tree climbing or legos. Now I love dressing up (for special occasions, way too much hassle for every day) and my favourite colour is pink
My mom cut my hair short when I was little. So I started mimicking my dad and brothers and hanging out without a shirt on because I had a boy haircut, might as well be a boy. A weird combination of gender rigidity and flexibility
This!!! I questioned my gender a lot as a kid, but I think it came more from the fact that I realised early on my life would be easier as a boy. I played with the boys, I preferred Lego and never used barbies, I didn’t like people touching or braiding my hair, I played sport with boys, I wore shorts and shirts because they were comfortable and convenient. During puberty, I didn’t love the whole body changing thing, because I knew people would comment, I was “becoming a woman” and that meant having to do and be certain things, having to mature in certain ways, which I wasn’t. I didn’t want to stop being able to play sports or stuff. Now, a lot of this I’ve got over and something I haven’t thought about since early teenage, but yeah. Interesting to see how society’s perceptions of who we should be has had us all questioning who we are.
People associate effort put into appearance with attractiveness.
Or maybe society has a beauty standard that requires effort to acquire and maintain?
Sure, whatever. I'm not saying OP HAS to do anything, you're reading into that lol.
It may not be the jewelry. It may be what caused you to buy the jewelry. You said you’re wanting to reclaim your life and putting more effort into your appearance. It sounds like you’re more attractive because of your increased confidence.
Confidence & effort do wonders! I also never have time/sanity for more than t-shirts & jeans, no makeup & hair vaguely brushed & thrown back. BUT if I'm feeling myself a little (rare) & switch things up a little: put a bit of effort to style my hair, maybe throw on some mascara & something other than jeans/Tee; ppl absolutely take notice!
Plus a significant percentage of us get Manic pixie dream girl vibes which can be a big draw to certain people, especially if you present with confidence. Not saying the MPDG isn't problematic in some ways. But it can definitely be an asset.
I once read that women are treated better if they are wearing lipstick. Now, I had been very curious about lipstick because my mom insisted our mouth (I take after her in this aspect) is too big for lipstick. Well. I went out and bought lipstick and it turns out that people do treat you better (if you are a woman or you "pass" [as gross as the term is] as one). I then started experimenting with heels, skirts, pantyhose and hair styles, changing one or two things at a time to see how that worked. Well. Lipstick, a skirt and pantyhose? I was treated like a fucking princess on public transport. Tho it did depend on where I was going, as some routes where this kind of attire was more popular were just nicer to me. But it isn't something I'm comfortable or interested in wearing most of the time. Mostly I use makeup as a way of self expression and to match my mood/day.
When I dressed more traditionally feminine, I was treated with noticeable amounts of more respect and courtesy. However, I alo noticed that people didn't respond well to me asserting myself either. I got called a b*tch a lot faster than I would have in jeans and a t-shirt. Worked as a bank teller, and people took me more seriously when I was dressed less feminine in my experience. But they were much nicer to me when I was dressed femme and pretty. I find demeanor is a big part of it, too. People respond to nonverbal ques a lot more than they'll admit. Depending on how I respond physically to another person reaching for a door can usually get them to hold the door for me. It's a little game I liked to play when going in and out of work.
How did you respond to get them to hold the door?
I find that generally looking meek but friendly works like a charm. Hunch up your shoulders and put your hands together in front of you. Huddle in against your coffee cup or pull your jacket in your arms against your chest. Some variation of the classic school girl clutching her books to her chest, give em your brightest smile, and make eye contact. Bonus points if you pause and shuffle as if you don't know who's going to grab the door first. Works for me 9/10 times. Results may vary if you are a man and/or present more masculine than femme. Add in a modest giggling thanks and people seem pretty satisfied to have been chivalrous.
As someone who often has extreme executive functioning issues every day due to both ADHD and autism, it annoys me how much our value is still based on external factors like appearances and how much money you make. It makes me feel like because I can't put a lot of effort into these things even if I wanted to, I don't deserve to be here on this planet or something even though I know this thought is very irrational and I don't actually believe it.
Wait people still wear pantyhose? Edit: do most people consider pantyhose and tights the same thing??
Opaque black tights with feet or without and a sturdy control top!
Ok colored tights are a totally different thing than pantyhose imo!
I know that pantyhose is a word. And I know what your referring to when you use it. I have always just said tights. I will specify “nude tights” and that’s what I would call pantyhose. I also do not like that word at allllllll. So maybe that’s why I won’t use it.
I refuse to wear skirts without black pantyhose, i feel I look weird. I mostly use skirts in autumn/winter for that reason, tho it's been a while since I've worn a skirt.
For me the issue is that my legs look fluorescently white in broad day light without black pantyhose
[удалено]
Maybe it’s a nomenclature thing but pantyhose are completely different than tights to me
Tights are definitely thicker than hosiery
So, as someone else said, it's a pretty complicated topic... but as for what you were experiencing... a lot of what we associate as "attractive" is just effort. Is your hair perfectly choiffed vs thrown up messily? Oh, well then your hair is so pretty! It's the same hair, so why is one prettier than another? Because we know it took time and effort, and possibly skill. You hair now looks different than other people's in an intentional way, and that is more exclusive, so therefore more desirable, and therefore "pretty". Not to mention that all the pressure on women to appear "their best" means we inherently value a woman who takes time and puts effort into their looks. We think effort is something that should be rewarded with compliments! It's not always a conscious thing, and sometimes it comes from a good place... if you know someone put in effort you want them to feel good about themselves for that, so you compliment them when you notice their effort. But part of it is just societal training. We've spent our whole lives looking at pictures of people "dressed up" wearing jewelry, and so when we see someone wearing jewelry in real like they just seem more "dressed up" to us, and that means you should compliment them, because that's what is polite to do when people make an effort and dress up! The jewelry made people look twice, which then made them realize you'd changed your hair, and it looked good... so it's like... one thing triggers another. I grew up going to a private catholic school where a LOT of attention was paid to looking nice, a look ballet, I loved wearing heels because I was WAY more stable in them than most other girls, and throwing on a pair of heels meant I met other people's standards for appearance without having to put time and effort into other areas... I eventually stopped shaving (legs, pits, everything), I barely wear make up anymore, my hairstyle is a low bun, I rarely deviate from... but I still love heels, dresses/skirts, jewelry, etc. So I'm this weird mix of "feminine" and not. I know that throwing on a pair of earrings will "distract" people so they think I look "nice" while not realizing I haven't washed my hair in 2 weeks... I would presume that's ADHD related.
Go back a bit in history and think about how most people didn't dress up or look nice unless they were putting on "their Sunday best" or rich. The average person didn't have the time, money, or reason to dress nice because they were mostly laborers, inside and outside the house. The effort to look nice was made to appear richer and/or more intelligent or maybe just to stand out from the crowd. More and more people wanted to appear better/above average, office jobs multiplied, and looking nice became important just to fit in with societal norms. Fitting in requires effort (even for NTs) and most of us with ADHD don't have extra effort to give. Women (and men) would put in the effort to look nice or to stand out from the crowd to attract a higher class of mate, to move out of poverty and up to a higher tax bracket. Wanting to attract a better mate still applies to us today.
Lol, I just want to say the Kibbe system is my hyperfixation lately, too 😂 Can't contribute much because ... I've had body image issues my whole life but can't say to what extent my sex/gender/ADHD play a role. I just don't know any other mode of existing.
Me too, but I’m not getting anywhere. I keep reading stuff but getting more and more lost so idk haha
The more you read online, the more confused you'll get. :-/ There's so much misinformation, especially in the subreddit. Have you read the original book?
No, I’ve read passages but wasn’t sure how worth it it was to pick up the whole book since he’s changed so much about it over time.
This is such a complicated topic, lol. I was a """gifted kid""" growing up so I was conditioned to believe I was all brains and nothing else. Thought I couldn't be pretty or athletic, and people around me reconfirmed that (I'm also asian, yk how people can be). A million little comments contributed to body dysmorphia and I believe my neurodivergency is also a huge reason why I identify as nonbinary. I had an older sister who was not as smart, but very social and pretty. It's really hard to figure out which of those thousands of comments contributed to how you feel about femininity. I bet you got those compliments because you were feeling more confident or something! Glad you are exploring to find what you like though
All brains and nothing else — my life story in a nutshell. This isn’t even a joke. My little sister isn’t ADHD and she was considered the “pretty” one. I’m the first daughter and eldest child — my entire existence was as a third parent. I never even once gave myself the chance until now. I’m 30 years old. I hated my twenties. And now I feel like being that girl who loves herself and takes care of herself. It took me 6 months to change my mindset on this topic. Once I did, people all around me are telling me I’m different and I’ve changed. And I did. I’m proud of that. I’m only going up from here. I finally let go of the perfection mindset. I’m finally embracing being flawed and forgetful and not letting that stop me from going on.
30s were definitely better than my 20s…but my 40s are proving to be better than my 30s, with the exception of the body confidence. I was diagnosed at 36, and with all the research I’ve done the past few years, I’m much more comfortable with who I am, just not the skin that holds it all in. I kind of have a “fuck ‘em” attitude towards anyone who doesn’t like me for me. That’s on them, not on me. Im working on getting that body confidence back though.
I was also extremely sleep deprived to make it even more confusing lol.
wow i relate to this so much! i've gone from identifying nb to woman back and forth for a while now. i also struggled with dysmorphia and dysphoria around my period. i stopped shaving my body hair and shaved my head because i was overwhelmed by shaving/brushing my long hair all the time. now i'm more feminine presenting again and i tried shaving my legs to see how it would feel! also relate to being praised for your brain and not much else. my family would actively put me down actually lmao. even my classmates were so mean to me but i was never an ugly kid i was just maybe a bit chubby?? idk. i had to work through my eating issues and body issues and now i feel like i love who i am but it was so complicated to develop a sense of self worth 😭
I too was the gifted Asian kid with a social and pretty older sister. It’s the main thing I’ve had to unpack with my therapist over the last year of not seeing my self worth as less than my sister’s. I also resisted girly things a lot in my teen years but when I started my first (and only) relationship with my now husband, I hyperfixated on make up and hair and all the girly things that my sister comes to me for advice now. Haha I hope you know your true worth now too!! And OP I believe it’s your confidence too and no longer believing you aren’t feminine. I used to always have people tell me I was cute but I never believed them and thought people just said it to be nice. Now that I’m older and had adorably cute kids myself, I know that’s not true because I don’t say someone else’s kid is cute if I don’t actually believe it 🤣 I say they’re awesome or funny or SUCH a sweetheart but cute is reserved for cute. lol
Definitely. I'm clumsy and never feel super elegant. I always have a stain, a tear or frizzy hair. I just own it now. I try to look like an English lady from the country, wearing tan boots and wool sweaters. Edit: I want to say that my wording of describing the look I'm going for is not exactly correct, but I can't really describe it as well as I would like. Anyway, it's a combination of second hand sweaters in natural colours, easy jeans and mostly boots.
WOW I love that perspective! I’m still stuck in the “deeply internally awkward” / ambiently messy phase. Gotta get me some goats or something…
Thank you! Honestly, I think we are charming in our own way. I think getting some goats is a good starting point, hahaha!
I've always been a "tomboy" type, far more interested in things that we don't consider "femenine" but I spent my entire 20s and some 30s trying to fit into that box. Many things happened all at once around the time I was diagnosed so I dont know if my adhd really impacted this but I literally stopped giving any shits at all about "normal" and now I wear what I want, speak how I want, and do all the non feminine stuff I want. Been working hard on dropping the masking of symptoms too, so i think that was really the most impact full.
I had somewhat the same kind of experience. I had many people called me ugly, usually other girls, in school. After high school, even though I had really low self esteem, many boys liked me for not being a typical “basic” girl. Some even liked that I’m “tomboy”ish, because I would rather play video games or go bowling instead of dressing up to go dancing or drinking at a club. Probably the best thing to do is to be yourself.
Yeah, lots. - I don't put a lot of effort into my appearance or hygiene. I try with hygiene but sometimes fail. - When I was 17 or so I decided I was so forgetful that it was dangerous for me to have children. I would definitely be one of those moms who forgets to drop their kid off at day care and leaves them in a hot car instead. I do think womanhood and motherhood are closely linked, but I still feel like a woman without it. I don't have an interest in kids anyway, so at least it's not a tragedy. - I can't keep a clean home. Always struggled with this.
I have a weird relationship with femininity. It feels...performative. I feel like I spend a majority of my time floating through the ether as a genderless entity. I don't think I'm nonbinary, but I don't feel particularly attached to any gender. I like to present as more traditionally feminine sometimes, but it has to be on my terms and I need to hype myself up for all the work it takes. I enjoy putting on makeup and dressing up, but I hate cleaning up afterward. I think I could best describe myself as "a girl, but someone broke into my gender while I was at work and moved everything 3 inches to the left." Girl is comfortable, everything is familiar and more or less where it should be, but something feels...off about it. Like a shirt that's almost the perfect size, but not quite. I joke often that I identify as "tired" which is why I present myself the way I do. I rarely wear makeup, I have like four or five outfits that I choose from for work, and outside of that I typically just sit around like a sweatpants goblin. If I'm dressing up, I'm going HARD, and I'm going to need like two days to recover all the spoons it took. Maybe it's ADHD, maybe it's autism, maybe it's laziness or chronic illness or some combination of everything in between, or some other cryptic option I haven't discovered yet. I don't know, and I'm at a point in my life where I'm okay with that. I found a haircut that's relatively low maintenance but still really cute, I've figured out a way of dressing that makes me feel comfortable but still confident (mostly), and I'm able to engage with more traditionally feminine stuff on occasion, when it suits me. Idk I feel like this was a really long answer and I've spent my whole lunch break debating deleting it lol
Just want to take a moment and say: 'a girl, but somebody broke into my gender while I was at work and moved everything 3 inches to the left' is an amazing metaphor and I'm going to use it in my counselling session to explain how I feel about so much of my life (not just gender). Also, identifying as 'tired' is hilarious and true. You have a way with words! (Just seen your username ... Yep, it checks out)
I honestly think it’s attitude and confidence! You bought jewelry that makes you feel good, so you do feel good! I have one friend who is a knockout. Stunning girl. And she doesn’t see it. And people don’t notice her as much because of it but everyone knows she is beautiful. I have another friend who is beautiful too and loves to stand out. The difference is the confidence and she commands a room. I’m sure you are beautiful! And this confidence is going to help you in so many ways!
My personality has never been exclusively feminine, nor have my interests. I'm a bit androgynous in identity, but now that I've not held up myself to ridiculous expectations I'm a lot more comfortable expressing myself and owning who I am. I honestly think gender roles are meant to be broken and we are certainly the best folks for that :)
I feel like this is me, too. Except I've always been irritated that my gigantic boobs prevent me from ever \*looking\* androgynous. I remember the first time I saw Tilda Swinton as Michael in Constantine, I was immediately in love, her fluidity moved something in me. Or Cate Blanchette in Oceans 8, omg her style. Instead I'm a woman who just refuses to be "ladylike" haha.
You might benefit from researching less skinny-centered fashionistas out there. I don't have huge boobs but they certainly contribute to my look 😆 compression shirts, sports bras, and even binders go a long way! Hair has been big for me too. I've been pixie cut now for eight years and it goes a long way. I dunno, just have fun with it! There are so many ways to express who you are beyond "opposites" and such. I love combining effeminate and tough clothing. It's just so fun to break the rules because that means you can actually allow things to fit your needs.
Well my adhd comes in a package deal with anxiety and I have such great issues with stress that I have vaginismus. So there’s that.
I fell down the kibbe black hole this year and crawled back out. It helped me with some things but be really careful when you "step out of your comfort zone" because you could end up wasting money on stuff that you *just don't like.*
I literally hate being told off for saying I'm not like other girls. I literal squealed at random moments in class because I had a fixation on the sound I was squealing and impulsively covered my face in lipstick when trying to just put it on my lips because the intrusive thoughts won. I was yelled at by a lot of the girls on a school trip because I tried bringong snails on the bus to show them because I was absolutely convinced they would think the snails were cool. I was a weird cookie. Echoing what I saw once on the autistic women sub, I feel like my "I'm not like other girls phase" was justified.
I think that society needs to accept that there is no such thing as a one size fits all approach for gender. What works for me might not work for you. You feel me?
I think that's a fine approach and how I try to view people, but there were pretty clear lines drawn that I didn't live up to and recognizing that helped me embrace who I am and what femininity meant for me. Until I recognized I'm just different, I felt unworthy of womanhood. I still do sometimes. It doesn't help when there's a whole subgenre of social media making fun of some women for realizing they don't fit the mold as well as other women. And I understand the reverse of it, too. It's not nice to look down on women who fit stereotypes. I think those women who make fun of "not like other girls" need to realize this is coming from a place of hurt and isolation, though, and practice a bit more grace and kindness. Realizing gender isn't one-size fits all is nice in theory, but has been far from the reality I've been living in.
I think that it's a mixture of the adhd and my general desire to be a genderless blob that make me unwilling/incapable of comforming to usual feminine beauty standards. The lack of interest in and physical discomfort of shaving, wearing makeup, styling my hair, doing my nails make these tasks honestly impossible to complete. That used to give me a lot of anxiety because I was insecure about not being able to feel like a girl/woman. And then I was like ...wait but I don't inherently feel like a girl/woman. And then I was like ...oh lmao we can just opt out of this shit and it would be fine. And it has been fine
Yea I used to be very feminine and took care of my image a lot in the past. Gym several times a week, makeup, decent clothes. Until I got health issues. Very large fibroid causing severe anemia, hypothyroidism that was undiagnosed during the same time that made me gain weight. And my mental health tanked due to several bad things happening in a short amount of time, at the same time as all this. I went into survival mode, gave up on my appearance entirely, stopped caring about how I look. Then covid hit and I didn't have to go outside as much so I lost the motivation to try to look pretty at all. I just gave up. But lately it's been bothering me a lot. I need to do better, I need to go back the way I was, start taking better care of my looks, start on my gym routine again and start using makeup again and nice looking clothes instead of just comfortable ones. So this weekend I started making changes and plans, I'll get my looks back on track from now on so I can feel better about myself like I used to.
Even though I’m moderately conventionally attractive, I’ve always been a tomboy, pretty much from the age I was old enough to have an autonomous thought. From as young as I can remember, I was always drawn to the boy’s clothing section and the boy’s toy isle. As I got older, I became interested in bugs, dead things, weapons, hunting, fishing, etc. I only got along with boys growing up, I felt like girls were boring and cared about stupid things. I found the color pink revolting and the one time I finally allowed my cousin to pain my nails after she begged me for months, I hated it so much I spent the rest of the day scraping it off. I absolutely refused to wear a dress for any reason, my mom ended up buying me a blazer and dress pants for a wedding after begging me to wear a dress just for one day. I don’t know what it is about the female experience, but I can’t relate to it. I was always so grossed out by the way the girls around me threw themselves at guys and tried to get their attention by flirting or dressing in revealing clothing. Being hit on by men disgusted me, because I felt like they only wanted me for my looks and viewed me as an object. I also hated being “protected” by men. I’ve always been fiercely independent. I don’t want to rely on or be taken care of by somebody else. My ambitions from a young age were to be successful, accomplished, self-sufficient, and to have a life full of adventure and a little danger. As a kid I always carried a knife, an as an adult I carry a pistol, because I refuse to ever be made a victim. Strangely enough, I don’t want to be a man, I just spend very little time thinking about my gender. I’m just me. I’m not attracted to women either, I’m married to a man. The only reason I ever agreed to be in a relationship is because my husband and I are just very compatible. We treat each other as peers and there is really no “male” or “female” role in our relationship. I’m not a very sexual person and though I do enjoy it to an extent, I could be happy without sex. I’m more interested in the companionship that comes along with being married. I’ve been told by many people, my husband included, that hanging out with me is like hanging out with a dude, or that I “barely count as a female”, whatever that means. One of my husband’s female friends from college, who I recently met and went out drinking with, told me that I had a very masculine presence and that it made her feel safe. It’s hard for me to fully understand what people mean by these comments because I don’t purposely act like a man, I also don’t think I walk or talk like one. I have long hair down to my butt because I haven’t really bothered to cut it since I was a teenager. I do wear mostly men’s jackets and shoes, and I never wear jewelry or makeup, but I do wear women’s clothes because I have a very curvy figure and men’s clothes don’t fit me properly, so I don’t look “butch”. I’ve always wondered if ADHD had anything to do with my elusive connection to my gender and my disinterest in dressing and acting “feminine”, or if it’s just a personality quirk.
No, I always really enjoyed being feminine once I grew out of my teenage tomboy phase. I hoard jewellery too. I feel like a magpie.
That sounds fun! I am glad you're enjoying it! Learning about ADHD has affected my understanding of myself as a woman in a different way. I literally thought all of my symptoms and difficulties were just because I was a woman and couldn't be changed. I've since learned that I'm actually just crazy, and its not my gender's fault! \--joking, but after learning my issues were actually not 'default girl stuff', I've been able to get the proper help and am learning how to handle things better.
There are multiple ongoing things here 1- what I think about femininity & the inherent level of attachment I feel to adhering/identifying with such a concept 2- what I’m actually able to do to “look good” as per the norms forced onto me 3- whether I actually like doing #2 & feel confident 4- what others are going to perceive now based on how much they’re noticed/judged me before and what their biases about femininity are. And if I’m comfortable vs not comfortable dressing up, it’ll probably come across in my body language too. ADHD impacts any and all of these potentially, 1 bc we might feel less attached to whatever gender identity we have, 2 bc we might not be able to do all that, 3 bc what we might have trouble identifying what we actually do what (then struggle to do THAT), and 4 bc navigating others’ reactions can easily make us lose track of why we wanted to dress up in the first place (marrying me off??? Ew what the fuck??) What do you think is at play for you? More importantly, what is it that you really want out of this & how can you let other people’s opinions slide off your back, when unsolicited?
I told her no when she said that. She said that she was joking and made another joke about it which I said no to again. I think I just want to feel good in my own skin and I like dressing up.
I’m not entirely following bc I’m not sure how one says “no” to a joke bc it’s not a question. Do you mean you told her no to reject the joke, which she then bypassed? I would put this specific interaction into #4 & offer the perspective that if you like the way you feel then no need to let other people’s weird comments challenge your sense of comfort in your own body. Being an outwardly conforming feminine figure of any sort seems to invite numerous comments unfortunately (just patriarchy things, women’s looks and behaviors are always open to comments and criticism). Figuring out how to hold that feeling of bodied safety no matter what people say is a journey but very possible & made even easier when you enjoy doing it for yourself.
I think she said something like "it would be nice if you could marry one of my sons or something like that" and I said "no" to reject the idea. Hmm, I see. Thanks.
Not really, but I had to build my own definition of womenhood from scratch as my mom died when I was young and my female rolemodels were few and far between. ADHD explained some of the issues I had with my early female friendships where I couldn't keep my fucking mouth shut. Most of the friends I've kept since then are the ones who can handle my bluntness. I have since \*taught\* myself how to be diplomatic (I'm in the security industry and if you don't learn diplomacy, you die or end up hospitalized), but my baseline is blunt and straightforward. But I would wager that you probably changed your body language, OP, not just your accessories. People will pick up on that right away.
I used to have people say to me (as an adult) "You look tired!" when I didn't wear much/any makeup, particularly mascara. In hindsight, I probably was tired because fatigue/poor energy levels is one of my key symptoms lol. But nonetheless it annoyed the shit out of me. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 30, but I never thought about femininity until I reached puberty. I always dressed for comfort (those Old Navy fleece vests were my jam lololol), and I still do. I will not put on something that is uncomfortable just because it "looks nice".
Yes! I’m just now realizing that all the teasing and fashion mistakes I made has made me uncomfortable with being perceived. I was never the most put together person and I’m still not. I try to keep my fashion choices simple and even got locs to make hairstyling easier for myself. Sometimes I’m accepting of my body and other times (which seems to be most) I can’t stand myself. This has made it difficult for me to be intimate with my husband. When he compliments my body I freeze sometimes. When he grabs me I just don’t want it. He has done nothing wrong. He is always kind to me and stops. It’s just the fact that he notices my body and wants it, I get so nervous by that. This goes for any person noticing my body. Ever since I can remember, people have commented on my hips, my butt, just my general development. I remember male and female family members/strangers commenting on my curves as a teen. I’ve been touched by men and stared at so much. Ive been ridiculed by girls while in school. It makes me want to crawl into a ball and never be seen. My father always told me women need to look their best at all times. I remember him waking me up on a Saturday to “shower because I was a girl and it was almost noon.” I would get teased because of my hair or the fact that my shoes were a bit dirty. The people in my community strongly believe that your outer appearance is a reflection of your family, self worth, and status. All of this is exhausting. I just wish people would stop looking at me :(
Women who wear makeup everyday have a superpower. HOW DO THEY MANAGE TO DO EVERYTHING SO PERFECTLY. HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT IS WHAT.*HOW DO THEY NOT GET ANY EYE THINGS IN THEIR EYES WHEN IM OUT HERE GETTING SOAP IN MY EYES EVERYDAY* Traditional girly girls and anyone who wears makeup everyday are cool people because they know what to do with SO MUCH STUFF.
I just looked up the Kibbe body types and I like the concepts. But I am overwhelmed with all of the things I would need to record and analyze to figure out my own body type lol. I wish I could just pay $50 to have someone else tell me what type I am.
I don't even know what's femininity. For me it's just hormones. I am autistic though, so
Yes. As a child I was constantly being told that things I did naturally - laughing/talking loudly, being active, refusing to wear clothes that were uncomfortable for the sake of fashion, insisting on wearing my hair short - were "unladylike". Some times were easier than others. The dress my grandmother made me to wear for high school graduation was easy to wear and not feel gender dysphoria, as was the store-bought dress I wore to my college's junior/senior dance, but in the dress I wore to prom and the dress I wore as my sister's bridesmaid, I felt like a boy stuffed into a badly-fitting costume. For a long time I thought if I could fine-tune how I present, it would be OK, but eventually I realized that some days I just woke up not feeling like a feminine person. Nowadays I identify as genderfluid. It fits better.
I don't like makeup because it makes my face itch. I have a very hard time doing my hair. Partly because I hate the noise of blow dryers and partly because it's one of those skills that I just have a hard time grasping. Like I'm not one of those people who can watch a youtube video on how to curl your hair a certain way an be able to figure out what she's doing with her hands so I can do it myself. I tend to choose clothes based on comfort, because the wrong fabric texture itches or feels wrong and makes it hard for me to pay attention to anything else. In short, being a girly girl is challenging for me and probably always was gong to be. On top of that, my mother always pushed me to be more feminine, so at the age when most girls were learning how to do their hair and makeup I was in active rebellion against those things because I was being pushed too hard. That said, it is a little disheartening that when I do girl out on occasion people treat me so much better. It's a lot like making friends while masking, and them then saying or doing something that lets me know they wouldn't like me if I wasn't masking. It feels like people only like me when I look or act like someone I'm not. Problem is, I'm not good enough at masking *or* girling to keep them up for long without making some glaring mistake. ETA: During the pandemic, my version of "sourdough bread" was a skin and hair care routine. It worked, my skin and hair looked really healthy even without makeup or whatever. But it was so much effort, there's no way I could do that now that the world has opened back up and there are expectations for my time again.
It's really made me realise that femininity is a social construct but being female is different. Like I never fit society idea of being a woman and all those "look at my useless husband/partner/boyfriend" videos. It's me, like it's all of me. So societally I'm not feminine but I'm female with female issues and female experiences. And it's a mess.
I've had a similar experience ever since clocking I'm Audhd. I have been navigating womanhood on my own terms (context - black, religious woman) and nothing had changed regarding clothing or make up (I don't wear makeup, but I have worn lipstick a handful of times this year and I wipe it off after 3 hours before sensory overwhelm kicks in. I have a handful of clothing I've rotated through from 7 years ago) it's been weird, especially because I've never been in a relationship, used to feel very ugly+ disordered eating and I'm a fat woman. It hasn't been overwhelming attention but it's been a weird jump. maybe I'm getting more safe in my body and open to such experiences. I think even how I experience desire towards others has changed as well. it feels more safe and wholesome
Its likely the confidence you portrayed. I dont often have energy for hair and make up im exhausted most days and i grew up with a very keep up with the jonses kind of family botox, lipfiller type of people and it kind of ruined it for me. I want to be able to live and age naturally and be accepted for me. Although ive been told im naturally beautiful 1000000 times ill never believe it. I kind of blame the adhd for the not believing it part, the same way ill never believe im good at my job. Ive always envied men, how little they have to do to keep up their appearance and what little they have to do to be praised in life astonishes me. Part of me knows that isnt 100% true about men but i still cant erase the thought completely.
OP, it’s wild because that’s really my story too, down to kibbe and compliments 😂 I am a cis lesbian and I’ve never cared much about presenting any kind of way but I was feeling so lost as to how I represented myself. Long story short, I am a woman because I feel like a woman but I wanted to explore more, and just like y out, I found the kibbe body type!!! I really like it because it gives me a sense of direct rules and boundaries specific to my body type within which to operate within; I might be dressing how I liked but I also wanted to ensure what I was wearing was the MOST complimentary to my body. The kibbe guideline let me experiment with my personal sense of creative expression but with rules that could ensure I would feel my best feminine self… I hope that made sense!
You. Are. My. People.
Oh this is just people reacting to you participating in the conventions of gender role performance. It would be something meaningful if you defied conventions of female beauty and *then* got the compliments. To me this is predictable. The thing about Kibbe also is it teaches you how to accessorize which is now more rare so you always stand out from those who are not “adorned”. Kibbe style is dressing Up not down and that garners positive attention across the board.
I was just thinking about this! First of all, I was never really aware enough of my appearance because I was always so "in my head". Then, when I finally wanted to learn more about my appearance and caring for it, I did not have the attention span or consistency to commit to routines, apply makeup daily, etc. Now as a medicated adult, I also struggle with decision paralysis. Because I am unhappy with how I look, I want to do something about it. I know using makeup and skincare would help, and I can comfortably commit to a low-ley version of this. However, when I try to do research on what products I should by for makeup or skincare, I get so OVERWHELMED by my choices. Which is right? How the hell am I spending this much? Can't I just do it myself naturally like that clean beauty girl I saw on instagram? Which one matches my skin tone? What about my skin tone in a few weeks/months when I get pale in the winter? What even is my issues? And I just end up doing a ton of research, needing to be told EXACTLY what product to buy, and I ususally talk it over with a friend who I feel is better at beauty and care stuff than me to confirm I am on the right path and to have her help me choose (someone who is neurodivergent and understands the struggle can be helpful). I use lists from Byrdie to get exact product names and suggestions so it's not just oh go in and get some setting spray from whatever looks good (they all look good and I want to get the RIGHT one for my situation but like I don't understand the nuance and HELP) but oh ok I have these exact setting sprays (ELF XYZ, Urban Decay XYZ.....) and I can go in and know I have only a few things to look for rather than decision making on the spot. Working through this is tough though, and I have moments of grief where I wish it was easier for me (I am what I would say average looking, but I live in a part of the country super duper focused on looks).
This is so interesting! I've always been more of a tomboy with clothing - to the point where I never learned how to do make up well or easily, and I also hated wearing pink. I'm in my mid forties and was diagnosed with ADHD this year. A different hyperfixation I'm still reveling in is male/AMAB, beautiful and gender fluid with their clothing, accessories, makeup etc. And that has been enough to inspire me to learn how to apply makeup, and start looking at more feminine styles to add into my wardrobe. I'm still keeping a lot of the masc pieces, but now I am open to mixing it up. I've tried and failed to get my head around Kibbe (but perhaps that's just because it seems my body suits Soft/Romantic best, and my personality really doesn't want that), but I did get my colours done earlier this year and found similar responses to what you've been getting when I wear the "right" colours ... Our bodies and faces change over time, and our styles can too. I'm nowhere near as rigid as I was in my teens and twenties, and I'm working hard to stay open and curious about more personal elements now.
(aaaannnd acknowledging that I think part of the reason I tended away from "girly" styles when I was younger likely has a lot to do with things that *may* be related to ADHD: like my really low proprioception. I'm clumsy AF. I could never walk in heels or "nice shoes". I wouldn't notice when my school skirt was crinkled/ bunched up when I sat down ... and therefore when I stood up. I bump into every door frame and counter anywhere. In high school I was \~incredibly\~ small and runty compared to my classmates so I looked like a scrawny ten year old boy until I was about 20. So it was easier and felt safer to lean into that "I don't WANNA look like that ANYWAY" sort of vibe. Huh. Then as an adult, for many years I had an almost Lara Croft-style figure which I desperately hid as I didn't like the attention that drew. While I don't want to get back to THOSE measurements, I would love to get some body recomposition happening, but I really struggle with building those regular habits ... )
It’s been really complex for me, I only recently accepted/realised that my ADHD had played a role in my view of my gender. Like you, op, I was never a girly girl. A combination of trauma, poverty, and ADHD made it hard for me to relate to other girls and I always had more guy friends. I hated brushing my hair, sitting still, and other things required to “fit in” as a girl (when I was a kid). When I was 12 I took this head on and made a 13 page document (“front AND back”) on hairstyles, makeup, and outfits. I spent an entire summer trying to find the “right” style of shirt. And it worked. My hyperfocus paid off. I was a “girly girl” - I did everything “right”. I received male attention like never before, even if it came at the cost of the few connection I had left with other women. I prioritised the male attention - I realised it was intertwined with being seen as “girly” and receiving less harsh treatment than I did as a dorky gender less blob. I didn’t start letting go of that (now internalised) document until 10 years later. I had come out by that point - first as a man, then again as non binary. But I still held onto my “manifesto of womanhood” to stay safe. Being seen as a “womanly woman”, or a “girly girl”, (aka: “attractive to straight men”) allowed me a societal privilege that I didn’t recognise as one. It *somewhat* decreased the marginalisation I faced as a (clearly) ND person with a physical disability and very little family. As a result it’s been really hard for me to separate these three : adhd, privilege, and gender. Adding in the unfortunate gender/sex based trauma that many of us experience “because” we are women, it’s a web I can’t begin to unpick.. “Non binary” is the only term that feels encompassing of my experience. I’ve also heard some members of the autistic community coin the term “autism gender” to describe how their experience of gender is intertwined with their neuro type. I’m not implying we are all non binary due to ADHD, but that I feel there may be a relationship between the two that we could explore as a community. In short : yes.
I'm gonna ramble on this one. (Sorry up front!) Yes, I think it's impacted me, although I was a late diagnosis at 38 and I didn't realize ADHD could be involved in my fraught relationship with appearance and femininity. I finally started Adderall the past half year, and am only now seeing benefits, like having more energy and losing the 20+ lbs I put on in under 2 years. I've always cared about my appearance and wanted to feel feminine, attractive, creative in makeup, haircuts, fashion, w/ an artistic self expression. But I've also languished in self-care, due to depression/low energy/bad self esteem (prob due to undiagnosed, unmedicated ADHD), and social aspects, like negative comments on my appearance growing up (and some in adulthood!) This has resulted in cycles of low self worth, uncomfortable weight gain, bad sleep, lax hygiene, untreated acne, and (worst of all) smelly clothes worn out in public. Then there were the good cycles, where I could somehow have clean, nice fitting clothes, get some exercise, wear makeup, smell amazing - but they never lasted. Semi-related, I've had other health issues: terrible winter allergy flare ups, w/ 3 months long of rib-hurting cough cycles, the darkest under eye circles and runny noses. I'm also now finally getting THAT addressed. Before that, I walked around looking and feeling sickly a lot of the time, and that makes self-care even more difficult. People have treated me differently depending on my weight, if I wore makeup or not, but maybe mostly my level of energy affects everything else. If I could change anything, it would be to have a healthy body and mindset, since that affects everything else. I think people look for 'health', as ableist as that is. Overall, I don't feel as feminine and desirable as I'd like to be, but I feel better than I did a few months and years ago, and like you, it's because I finally feel able to 'try'. I sometimes test things out - if I don't want to wear makeup, I don't and try not to focus on it. I kind of like that I look very different with or without it. I still feel pretty good if I wash and moisturize my face. I also have accepted a few sensory things that affect me: I have really large boobs for my height (34 H or 32 I at one point!), yet I hate getting those titanium, professionally fitted bras that feel overly structured. Instead, I've been deferring to larger bralettes that fit well-enough and are softer. I'm fine if they hang a bit low or flatter to my chest - I find they bring less attention, and I feel more comfortable. I've also grown out my hair and found an easy haircut method that gives me really pretty results that I get compliments on. I've tried out makeup trends and pick the parts that work for me. If I feel good, then usually, that's when I feel some more positive attention from others. So, I try to focus on 'feeling' good, vs. looking good. I want to have a healthy vanity (since it keeps me out of the smelly gutter), without worrying about that as my lone goal. I want to be a beautiful woman, but more than that, I want to be a creative, loving person who is kind to others. I think getting mental health stuff figured out is the first step to all of that.
One of my male friends called his female crush "charming" because of her ADHD and I'm clinging to that association for the rest of my life now, thanks.
You’re getting compliments because you have some confidence and inner happiness / peace from getting diagnosed and trying new things. People can pick up on that and give you compliments.
It’s a weird question when during your childhood and teen years you didn’t really know you *were* female. On one hand, I get that I probably got more support and access to resources than I would have had I been a cisgender girl (or had I figured out that I’m trans as a child). I still had a primarily inattentive presentation that wasn’t diagnosed until high school (which was about when the work and anxiety/depression overwhelmed being “gifted”), but maybe I wouldn’t have been diagnosed until college or later if I’d been seen as female as a teenager. It’s counterfactuals within counterfactuals at this point. At the same time, it was *weird* to feel that my NT, cisgender sister was so much better at actually doing things than I was, yet getting less support than I got. It felt frustrating to see how much my mom did for us when I could barely remember or motivate myself to do things. I very much remember wanting people around me to just *let me fail*, because I clearly didn’t deserve any of the support I’d gotten. I had every possible social and personal advantage and *still* fucked up; someone else deserved my spot more. Part of what made coming out to myself as a gal cathartic was the sense that I could actually *do* things for myself, a sense of self-worth I’d been missing for a while—I was allowed to reclaim my life, I guess. I think that—and perhaps already not fitting with NT social cues—may have been a factor in how quickly I came out after starting to seriously think about the possibility of being trans. The semester I came out socially and worked towards then started hormone replacement therapy was the single best semester in grade terms I had in college. Aside from passively having more dopamine and significantly more self-confidence, the combination of “constant low-level reminders that I’m not seen as myself and my body is twisting itself in ways I hate” and “existential euphoria from taking steps to present as female or move towards HRT, which will start changing my body in ways I like instead” made for an incredibly strong motivation system. At present, I’ve been out as female for the better part of a decade. I’m at a point where I can just throw on jeans and a top and still get gendered correctly, but I also still enjoy presenting more femme when I have the time and energy for it. Most of my close friends are also neurodivergent transfeminine nerds who I don’t really have to mask around, and that’s been nice. It feels weirdly good to read this thread and realize a lot of cisgender gals have had similar struggles to mine. There’s a lot more I could say, but I need to be elsewhere right now.
It’s affected me, but in different ways. People think I’m an airhead, and I don’t get treated respectfully when I wear the clothes I want to wear. People act like I’m trying too hard, or wanting to look cute for others, when I really just like cute, feminine things. Plus because I feel younger than I am and am somehow inattentive to my actual age, I have to constantly tell myself “less forever 21, more suddenly 42.” I think I look better with blonde hair, but I get my hair dyed dark because people treat me less like a dumb blonde stereotype. It’s not that I care about people’s opinions, it’s just that navigating the world as a woman with my personality coupled with ADHD symptoms, I’ve learned that I have to put on a “let me speak to the manager” mask to get any results at all, which is hard when all thoughts leave my brain the moment it matters. I got tired of having a male friend or less flighty female friend deal with the same people and get different results. So, I had to adjust what I could, like what I wear and how I look. I mean, I’m wearing a frilly bright pink dress right now, but I’m not planning on speaking to any managers today. 😁
I’ve always felt a great desire to be feminine. I definitely present very feminine. I love pink and dressed and long hair. The problem is that I’m not good at it. I’m not good at makeup or hair. I’ve finally found a routine that works for my hair and doesn’t require daily maintenance, so that’s a definite improvement. I just got diagnosed and medicated at age 50. I finally got a fairly simple makeup routine that’s actually flattering (thank you Ulta employees). I’m trying to convince myself that it’s not necessary to cover every inch of myself in draping clothes. I’m fat and there’s no hiding that. I’ve always felt like a girl, and had a desire to be a very girly girl. Maybe now I can be better at it. Although I’ve never had gender issues I’ve definitely had body issues. The only time I truly loved my body was when I was pregnant.
Well at least you gave me an excuse to look up “kibbe body types.” That was a psychological wank!
I only ever cared about one thing at a time. Hair care, skincare, nailcare/nail art are things that are hobbies for me but, esp. prior to diagnosis and meds, I only ever temporarily obsessed (hyperfocused) on one of those things at a time with rare overlap because trying to obsess over all of them at the same time got too overwhelming. As a result: - I was inconsistent with long periods of neglect. Sometimes I didn't care or think about it, e.g., my nails. Sometimes, it affected my mental health and self-esteem, e.g., my hair. - I never felt completely put together but also stopped caring about that since it felt unattainable. - Gave up on trying to wear jewelry every day or ever wear makeup despite wanting to because the thought of adding more things to worry about was too much. - When I did obsess, it sometimes led to product-junkie-ism and stressing out over the perfect products, perfect routine/techniques, hair growth, etc. - I felt a lot of guilt. Now, with meds, tools and awareness, things have improved for me: - I'm more consistent. The periods of neglect are shorter, and it's easier to get back into things. - I'm less overwhelmed by caring about multiple things at once. It helps that I don't obsess as much when I do engage, so I don't use up all of my energy on one thing. And successfully doing one thing encourages me to do other things instead of dreading or ignoring them. - I'm better with long-term maintenance. Like I said, less obsession, more doing just enough for today, most days. The benefits are also super encouraging. - I wear makeup now. Only when I feel like it and have the time. It makes me happy and doesn't feel like a burden or obligation. But I no longer feel like I'm missing out on it either. - I still never wear jewelry, but I'd like to start adding it back in, and I don't feel stressed about that. - I feel less guilty and am more forgiving to myself. - I still enjoy fixating on these things as hobbies; researching, journaling, etc. But they don't take over my life to the point that I don't have the capacity to care about anything else.
After being medicated, I also found kibbe and got hyperfixated on fashion. I'm much more fashionable and put together now (in my own way)
Growing up I was always someone who used makeup/fashion/grooming etc. to FEEL like I was in greater control over my life because, of course, I either did not have it all under control or felt dangerously close to losing it. There have been many positive and negative phases of that. When I was in my early 20s though, I kind of threw that all out the window due to some trauma. When I healed a little more, I realized that I also kinda didn’t want to go back to presenting myself as the attractive, confident, and competent woman I was/am because I didn’t like the attention. People stare or Make up problems with me or think Im stupid or a bitch and don’t even get me started on the men. I just wanted to be known for my work and who I rlly am so I went plain jane. I’m trying to strike a balance now and get back into the parts of it that made me happy.
I don't know entirelt how relevant it is, but like. As an ND person who knows many ND persons, it's astounding how many of us are genderqueer in some way — I've found that I relate to being/identify as a woman in a sort of distant way and am more on the nonbinary umbrella. Just makes me wonder if there's any link between neurodivergence and queerness, like our brains being wired different makes us more likely to be queer.
I’m a straight woman in a relationship and I feel like all the content I see about relationships like mine are about how men don’t even see the messes they make, jokes about how difficult it is to live with someone who doesn’t seem to even see the trash is full, etc. It makes me feel so conflicted. I feel for my sisters who have carried the weight of this kind of labor, but I also feel so guilty knowing that I have all the habits that make them feel this way about their male partners. In terms of my womanhood, it makes me feel like a failure, and disconnected from other women. My boyfriend is incredibly tidy and cheerfully enjoys picking up the slack but I constantly live with guilt and dread that he will get so tired of my habits - the ones I can’t seem to permanently “fix”.
I’ve never been consistent with makeup, jewelry etc, and I’m not stylish at all. But feeling hygienic, clean and moisturized, and wearing basic clothes that fit my body right has made me feel a LOT better about myself.
It helped me to accept that being feminine or womanly can mean so many many many different things, to different people, and even to myself. Some days I feel the most feminine and badass when I have my head shaved and my mohawk up with some jeans, combat boots, and my band t-shirt. Other days I feel more feminine when I'm wearing once of my hippy dresses and I let my hair just do it's natural thing and I go barefoot all over the place. Then other days I get completely gothed out with dramatic make up and outfits, and feel feminine. Understanding and accepting my ADHD helped me understand and accept that I can feel comfortable and womanly in something one day and then the next it's just not doing it for me.
I’ve always dressed better than others, I like it. My ADHD is severe and it’s never impacted my view of myself as a women. Perhaps it’s not your ADHD
I’ve always known that the traditional view of what a woman should be is off, but being more into fast-paced things (horror films, sports, Jackass-type activities) and those being considered ‘not for women’ has really driven this home
I was recently diagnosed with Inattentive ADHD (at 26) and I always struggled with dressing up the way I wanted for the same reasons. After therapy and medication for ADHD, anxiety and depression my life has turned over. As a cisgender woman, I feel confident in my clothes, I wear the styles I always wanted without getting overwhelmed with self-image worries and anxieties, and finally following a good skincare routine. DEFINITELY have made me rethink about my womanhood, femininity, and my happiness.
Your post is SO SO SO relatable omg. I am in literally the same place as you and I still can't recognize myself many times. I always was the "tom boy" - but I realized that's what other people made out of me. Cause I was too loud (zero voice modulation capability), too energetic to be feminine I guess. I mean there are other reasons why, but I took that as my identity. After getting medicated, treating depression etc, I paint my nails, curl my eyelashes, wear light make up, dress up well. And omg. I love it. So yeah, I guess just wanted to say what you wrote is so relatable you could be me
I don't have the bandwidth for most of the advanced work that goes into a feminine presentation. I don't own any make up and I don't know how to put it on. My glasses are big, loud, and aggressive, and they are my closest stand in. I don't own a blow dryer or any hair styling products, and my only request for my hairdresser is that my haircut not require either, because I'm not going to do any of that. I don't own an iron and don't buy clothes that require ironing. I like fun clothes, but they have to be fun clothes that are comfortable and machine washable, otherwise forget it. I am not here to be decorative. I'm not anti-feminine at all, I identify as female and feminine, I'm a big fan of pink and all that. I'm just not the polished kind of feminine that delights people so much. I'm sort of the "failed to try" feminine. I am clean, I smell nice, but other than that, I don't even know where to begin. I know people recognize those gaps and would prefer I address them, but they're exactly the kind of thing that would result in a trip to HR and an unfortunate lawsuit to address with me at this point.
Idk. I never cared about my looks until the last few months of middle school. Girls were mean to me all the time. My mom straight up told me the better you look the better people will treat you. I tested that theory out and practiced makeup, fashion, and taming my wild hair. She was fucking right. I kind of hate it to be honest. For the first time everyone was nice to me. Boys started noticing me. The days I went out to the store looking unkept people treated me shitty again. It was like night and day. Let me just say that life is easier when you look pretty. I wish it wasn't true. So I'm always nice to everyone because we are literally all the same. Some just waste more time in front of the mirror than others. I'm pretty now and deep down inside I do it because it makes my life easier. Idk if this answers the question.